HomeMy Public PortalAbout20070219REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 1
CALL TO ORDER
The Regular Council Meeting of February 19, 2007, was convened at 6:00 P.M. by Mayor
John Landwehr.
Prayer was offered by Councilman Brian Crane, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CAL
The following Council Members were present for the roll call:
Present: Berry, Brown, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and
Vogel
Absent: Oetting
A quorum was declared present.
Mayor John Landwehr asked if anyone present wished to be added to the list of citizens who
have previously signed up to speak under Presentations from the Gallery tonight. He made
note of those adding their names to the list, and indicated they would not need to sign up
ahead of time to speak under "Public Hearings."
Following the addition of those wishing to make presentations from the gallery to the current
list, a motion was made by Councilman Michael Berry to amend the agenda to move
Miscellaneous Items and Presentations from the Gallery up on the agenda to occur before
the public hearings. The motion was seconded by Councilman Mike Harvey and approved
unanimously.
AGENDA ITEMS MOVED UP:
MISCELLANEOUS AGENDA ITEMS
FFA Week Proclamation - Adam Brock was present with members of the local FFA
chapter. Following his introduction of the members, he gave a brief explanation of how the
FFA is organized and their accomplishments. Mayor John Landwehr presented Mr. Brock
with a proclamation honoring FFA week.
Certificate of Achievement for Excellence in Financial Reporting - Mayor John
Landwehr presented the award to Finance Director Steve Schlueter who accepted it on
behalf of the City's Finance Department, and commended Chief Accountant Phyllis Gilpin
who he stated was instrumental in the city receiving this award for ten years in a row.
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 2
PRESENTATIONS FROM THE GALLERY
Mr. Brian Stumpe - 916 Moreau Drive, spoke regarding Bill 2006 -135 (temporary food
establishments) on behalf of Lutz's BBQ. Mr. Stumpe stated that the change from 48 hours
to 24 hours which an establishment must leave to go back to its home base is better
although he would prefer even less than 24 hours.
Mr. Darrel Driver - 314 Kent Street, also spoke regarding Bill 2006 -135. He stated his
concerns are with the regulations on push carts. He stated he has had a push cart business
for several years and he pointed out some of the concerns he had with specific regulations
on those.
The following persons all spoke regarding the Stoneridge Development:
In opposition:
Ms. Susan Thompson - 2832 South Ten Mile Drive, made a presentation regarding the
street as it would be configured for the Stoneridge Development. She also read statements
from two other residents: Barbara Nilges and Brenda Bunte who also were in opposition to
the development as currently proposed.
Mr. M. L. Allison - 2849 South Ten Mile Drive, stated his concerns with safety issues,
specifically regarding the proposed street layout.
Mr. Lee DeBroeck - 2030 South Ten Mile Drive, read a statement on behalf of Matilda
Kiesling regarding her opposition to the development as proposed.
Ms. Joanie Allison - 2849 South Ten Mile Drive, stated her concerns with the streets as
she has two teenagers of driving age and she's concerned about the safety of the street
configuration.
In favor:
Mr. David Payne - 1415 Lillian Drive, owner of Payne Motors located at 2815 South Ten
Mile Drive, made a presentation in favor of the development as proposed. He stated he
believes the increased traffic in the area would be a benefit to his business. He stated he
has not experienced any damage to his buildings during the blasting although his building
is located the closest to the development than any others.
Mr. Gary Wilbers - owner of a business located at 2810 South Ten Mile Drive, stated he
is also in favor of the development due to increased business flow in the area.
Mr. Duane Schreimann - attorney for the developer, stated that in answer to one of the
questions regarding TDDs. He stated that TDDs are considered governmental entities and,
consequently, subject to the same laws as other governmental entities, including audits and
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 3
sunshine law for open records.
Mr. Mike Bates - Central Missouri Professional Services, 2500 East McCarty Street, stated
he would be available to answer any questions about the development.
Councilman Kevin Brown stated he wanted to make sure for the record that all five
alternative street configurations had been briefed to the Council. City Administrator Steve
Rasmussen stated that he would ask Matt Morasch and Bill Betts to review those for both
the Council and the viewing public in a few minutes.
Mayor John Landwehr stated that he had overlooked a presenter who had signed up to
speak and offered his apology and requested him to come forward at this time.
In opposition:
Mr. Hubie Neutzler - 2854 South Ten Mile Drive, stated he had called the Kohl's corporate
offices and left messages. He stated that since none of his calls were returned he has
decided he will not patronize the store when it opens.
Mayor John Landwehr stated that the Council will now take up all associated bills pursuant
to Councilman Berry's previous motion to amend the agenda to do so.
The City Clerk third -read the following bills and they were placed on final passage:
Bill 2006 -130, sponsored by Councilman Berry, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, RELINQUISHING
PORTIONS OF CERTAIN EASEMENTS FOR SANITARY SEWER PURPOSES IN
CONJUNCTION WITH STONERIDGE VILLAGE SUBDIVISION, SECTION ONE, LOCATED
AT MISSOURI BOULEVARD AND SOUTH TEN MILE DRIVE
Bill 2006 -131, sponsored by Councilman Layton, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, ACCEPTING AND
APPROVING THE FINAL PLAT OF STONERIDGE VILLAGE SUBDIVISION, SECTION
ONE, A SUBDIVISION OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI.
Bill 2006 -132, sponsored by Councilman Berry, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, AUTHORIZING THE
MAYOR AND CITY CLERK TO EXECUTE A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH STONE
RIDGE TDD FOR INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS RELATED TO THE PROPOSED
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 4
DEVELOPMENT.
Following third reading of the three bills above, the following Council discussion was held
regarding the issue.
City Planner Janice McMillan asked Matt Morasch to make a presentation showing the five
alternatives to the proposed traffic plans. City Administrator Steve Rasmussen asked
Captain Mike Smith his opinion on the 41 accidents which have reportedly occurred at that
intersection over the past five years. Captain Smith stated he believes that traffic lights and
at that location could only improve the situation. Councilman Kevin Brown stated that there
are no traffic speed limit signs from the intersection where you make a right turn at the
intersection of Hwy. 179 and Missouri Boulevard. He asked the Police Department to
contact MoDOT and ask for a sign to be posted north of Hwy. 179 on Missouri Boulevard.
Councilman Kevin Brown asked if any information had been located regarding a former
Council Member who made claims to the property owners regarding this issue. City Planner
Janice McMillan gave a brief history of the issue since the beginning of discussions of the
development.
Councilman Brown noted that a draft of a new blasting ordinance is currently under way.
At the conclusion of discussion, the bills were passed as follows:
Bill 2006 -130 was read third time by title, placed on final passage and passed by the
following roll -call vote as Ordinance 14156:
Aye: Berry, Brown, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and Vogel
Nay: None
Bill 2006 -131 was read third time by title, placed on final passage and passed by the
following roll -call vote as Ordinance 14157:
Aye: Berry, Brown, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and Vogel
Nay: None
Bill 2006 -132 was read third time by title, placed on final passage and passed by the
following roll -call vote as Ordinance 14158:
Aye: Berry, Brown, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and Vogel
Nay: None
Mayor John Landwehr called for a brief recess at this time. Council recessed at 7:45 P.M.
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 5
MEETING RECONVENES
The Council Meeting reconvened at 7:50 P.M. with the following Council Members in
attendance:
Present: Berry, Brown, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and Vogel
Absent: Oetting
Mayor John Landwehr explained that the reason Councilman Oetting is absent tonight is
that he has been deployed with the Missouri National Guard to Guatemala until March 4.
Mayor Landwehr commended the Council, staff, developers, and the residents for the way
they handled the Stoneridge issue.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
(A) Rezoning Metro /Plaza Drive area from M -2 to C -2
City Planner Janice McMillan gave a staff presentation detailing the background of the
proposed rezoning and answered questions asked by the Council.
No one present requested to come forward to speak in favor of, or opposition to, the
proposed rezoning. Mayor John Landwehr declared the evidentiary portion of the public
hearing concluded, and announced that the Council will now take up the associated pending
bill, 2006 -128:
Bill 2006 -128, sponsored by Councilman Layton, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, CHANGING, AMENDING,
AND MODIFYING THE ZONING MAP OF THE ZONING CODE OF THE CITY OF
JEFFERSON, BY REZONING FROM M -2 GENERAL INDUSTRIAL TO C -2 GENERAL
COMMERCIAL, 24 PROPERTY PARCELS CONTAINING 27.57 ACRES OF LAND
DESCRIBED AS LOTS 1 -16 OF BAX'S COMMERCIAL PROPERTY SUBDIVISION AND
LOTS 17 AND 37 -42 OF BAX'S COMMERCIAL PROPERTY SUBDIVISION SECTION TWO
AND FIVE METES AND BOUNDS PARCELS LOCATED IN THE EAST HALF OF THE
SOUTHEAST QUARTER AND THE EAST HALF OF THE NORTHEAST QUARTER OF
FRACTIONAL SECTION THREE, TOWNSHIP 44 NORTH, RANGE 12 WEST,
JEFFERSON CITY, COLE COUNTY, MISSOURI.
Bill 2006 -128 was read third time by title, placed on final passage and passed by the
following roll -call vote as Ordinance 14155:
Aye: Berry, Brown, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and Vogel
Nay: None
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 6
(B) Rezoning 3300 Block of W. Edgewood from RA -1 to C -2
City PlannerJanice McMillan gave a brief presentation explaining the rezoning request. She
reported that in answer to a question asked at the February 5 Council Meeting, the
Developer estimates use of the proposed heli -stop two to three times per week. She stated
that the developer was present at the beginning of tonight's meeting, but because the
agenda was amended to postpone the public hearings and the other items took almost two
hours, he did have to leave to keep other commitments. Council discussed whether the
public hearing should be continued in light of the fact the public hearing was two hours late
in commencing as well as some questions which have come up among Council Members.
The following persons spoke on the issue:
In favor:
Mr. Mike Bates - Central Missouri Professional Services, 2500 E. McCarty Street, stated
he would make himself available to answer any questions the Council might have.
Mayor Landwehr declared the evidentiary portion of the public hearing concluded.
Associated Pending Bill 2006 -129:
Bill 2006 -129, sponsored by Councilman Layton, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, CHANGING, AMENDING,
AND MODIFYING THE ZONING MAP OF THE ZONING CODE OF THE CITY OF
JEFFERSON, BY REZONING FROM RA -1 RESIDENTIAL TO C -2 GENERAL
COMMERCIAL, 8.61 ACRES OF LAND DESCRIBED AS PART OF TRACT 4 OF MOSERS
SUBDIVISION AND LOCATED IN PART OF THE NORTH HALF OF THE NORTHEAST
QUARTER OF SECTION 16, TOWNSHIP 44 NORTH, RANGE 12 WEST, IN THE CITY OF
JEFFERSON, COLE COUNTY, MISSOURI.
Councilman Cindy Layton requested that Bill 2006 -129 be placed on the Informal Calendar.
Discussion was held regarding how to address information or testimony which may come
in during the next two weeks. City Administrator Steve Rasmussen suggested that all
information should be sent to himself to ensure that all interested parties receive the same
information before the next meeting.
City Counselor Nathan Nickolaus advised re- opening the evidentiary portion of the public
hearing and continuing the hearing which would avoid the necessity of scheduling a new
hearing. Mayor John Landwehr stated that the evidentiary portion of the public hearing was
re- opened, and that the hearing will be continued to a date to be determined and that
notification shall be given in accordance with the City Code.
MINUTES AND REPORTS RECEIVED AND FILED
Mayor John Landwehr announced that the following minutes and reports have been
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 7
received and are on file and may be reviewed in the City Clerk's office:
a. Transportation & Traffic Commission, January 7, 2007
b. CAMPO Technical Committee, January 4, 2007
c. Board of Electrical Examiners & Review, December 27, 2006
d. Veteran's Plaza Trust Board of Trustees, April 21, June 1, June 22, August
1, October 24, 2006, and January 8, 2007
e. CVB Minutes and Documents for December, 2006 (available for review in City
Clerk's Office)
f. MU Extension Council 2006 Annual Report (Available for Review in City
Clerk's Office)
g. Public Safety Committee, January 9, 2007
h. Police Personnel Board, January 11, 2007
Historic Preservation Commission, January 9, 2007
j. Parks and Recreation Commission, January 9, 2007
k. Planning & Zoning Commission, January 11, 2007
Board of Adjustment, November 14, 2006
Mayor John Landwehr thanked the numerous members of these boards and commissions
for giving of their valuable time and expertise for the betterment of the City of Jefferson.
COUNCIL LIAISON REPORTS
The following reports were made from Council members who are liaisons to boards and
commissions, or Chairmen of Council committees:
Finance Committee - Chairman Kevin Brown announced that meetings will be held March
6 and March 9. The supplemental budgetary items will be discussed
Public Works & Planning Committee - Report given by Chairman Michael Berry, who
announced another meeting will be held February 22 at 7:45 A.M. Several items are to be
discussed at that meeting.
Administration Committee - Report given by Chairman Brian Crane, who announced a
meeting would be scheduled an announced shortly. He stated that the Annexation and
Growth subcommittee is made up of himself, Councilman Kenneth Ferguson, and
Councilman Cindy Layton, and at the request of Mayor John Landwehr, he stated he would
also schedule a meeting of that subcommittee in the near future.
Public Safety Committee - Report given by Chairman Kevin Brown, who stated what the
committee has discussed and passed out of committee to the Council in their most recent
meetings.
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 8
ANNOUNCEMENTS OF OTHER UPCOMING MEETING AND EVENTS
No announcements were made at this time.
APPOINTMENTS BY THE MAYOR
Mayor Landwehr then recommended the following appointments for Council approval:
Appointments to City Boards and Commissions:
BOARD /COMMISSION
Board of Adjustment
Convention & Visitor's Bureau
Historic Preservation Commission
Library Board of Directors
Library Board of Directors
Police Personnel Board
Police Personnel Board
SWAC- Storrwater Advisory Crte.
SWAC- Stornzwater Advisory Cnzte.
SWAC- Storrwater Advisory Crte.
TIF Commission
Transportation & Traffic Commission
USSJC Submarine Board
JCTV Steering Committee
JCTV Steering Committee
JCTV Steering Committee
JCTV Steering Committee
RECOMMENDED NAME EXPIRES
Bill Luebbert
Carrie Carroll
Richard Telthorst
Margaret Young
Dan Eckles
Patrick Murphy- RENEW
Carlos Graham- RENEW
Bill Washburn
Jason Schwartz
Mike Bates
Ski Mariea - RENEW
Bill Washburn
Edmond Irwin
Linda McAnany -RENEW
Tom Minihan -RENEW
Mike Moyer -RENEW
Steve Veile -RENEW
September 2008
December 2008
December 2009
March 2010
March 2010
January 2010
January 2010
February
February
February
April 2010
June 2007
June 2007
February 2008
February 2008
February 2008
February 2008
Full/Partia
1
partial
partial
partial
full
full
full
full
full
full
full
full
partial
partial
full
full
full
full
A motion was made by Councilman Kenneth Ferguson for approval of the appointments as
presented, seconded by Councilman Mike Harvey, and approved unanimously
PRESENTATIONS FROM
STAFF, CONSU
TANTS & INVITED GUESTS
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 9
City Administrator Steve Rasmussen gave an update on the status of a proposed
conference center. He showed an overhead visual explaining the number of proposals
which have been received and their level of participation whether verbal, written, and their
interest in part or all of the three sections of the proposal. Mayor John Landwehr asked staff
to look at a plan where the city would actually do the conference center and a parking
structure itself.
COUNCIL COMMENTS IN RESPONSE TO PRESENTATIONS FROM THE GALLERY
There were no comments made at this time.
CONSENT AGENDA
The following items were brought before the Council for approval by Consent at this time.
a. Minutes of February 2 and February 5, 2007 City Council Meetings
b. Extension of Contract with New World Recycling Company for Transportation
& Recycling of Materials
A motion was made by Councilman Mike Harvey to approve all items on the Consent
Agenda as presented, seconded by Councilman Bryan Pope, and approved unanimously.
BILLS INTRODUCED
Bill 2006 -138, sponsored by Councilman Berry, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, AUTHORIZING THE
MAYOR AND CITY CLERK TO EXECUTE AN AGREEMENT WITH KAUFFMAN
ENTERPRISES LLC FOR THE LESLIE BLVD. SIDEWALK, STORMWATER, AND
SANITARY SEWER PROJECT.
Bill 2006 -139, sponsored by Councilman Crane, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, AMENDING CHAPTER 22
(PARKING), OF THE CODE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, BY ADDING A NEW
SECTION 42 PROHIBITING THE PARKING OF MOTOR VEHICLES ON LAWNS.
Councilman Edith Vogel asked if the Council could receive a ballpark figure on how much
this will cost based on number of citations. Following discussion, staff was also requested
to provide information about the maximum size of driveways.
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 10
Bill 2006 -140, sponsored by Councilman Vogel, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, AMENDING THE 2006 -2007
BUDGET OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI BY APPROPRIATING ADDITIONAL
FUNDS WITHIN THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS SALES TAX "D" FUND.
BIL
S PENDING
*See Public Hearings above for 2006 -128
*See Public Hearings above for 2006 -129
*see Miscellaneous Items above for bills 2006 -130, 2006 -131, and 2006 -132.
Bill 2006 -133, sponsored by Councilman Oetting, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, AMENDING SECTION
19 -401, SCHEDULE S, SUBPARAGRAPH C, OF THE CODE OF THE CITY OF
JEFFERSON, BY THE ADDITION OF A PASSENGER LOADING ZONE ON A PORTION
OF THE 100 BLOCK OF ADAMS STREET.
Bill 2006 -133 was read third time by title and placed on final passage. A motion was made
by Councilman Brian Crane to accept the Substitute 2006 -133 which was previously
distributed which would reduce the number of parking spaces used for the loading zone
from five spaces to two. The motion was seconded by Councilman Kevin Brown, and
approved unanimously Bill 2006 -133 was then passed, as substituted, by the following roll -
call vote as Ordinance 14159:
Aye: Berry, Brown, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and Vogel
Nay: None
Bill 2006 -134, sponsored by Councilman Crane, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, AMENDING CHAPTER 20
(MUNICIPAL JUDGE, COURT, ETC) BY ADDING A NEW SECTION 20 -10.1
AUTHORIZING THE MUNICIPAL JUDGE TO ISSUE ADMINISTRATIVE SEARCH
WARRANTS.
Bill 2006 -134 was read third time by title, placed on final passage and passed by the
following roll -call vote as Ordinance 14160:
Aye: Berry, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and Vogel
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 11
Nay: Brown
Bill 2006 -135, sponsored by Councilman Berry, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, AMENDING THE FOOD
CODE OF JEFFERSON CITY, MISSOURI TO CREATE A PERMIT AND REGULATIONS
FOR PUSHCARTS AND BY ADDING A SECTION PERTAINING TO TEMPORARY FOOD
ESTABLISHMENTS.
Bill 2006 -135 was read third time by title and placed on final passage. A motion was made
by Councilman Michael Berry to accept the Substitute Bill which was distributed to the
Council in their most recent packet. The motion was seconded by Councilman Mike Harvey,
and approved unanimously. Following a lengthy discussion, Councilman Michael Berry
stated he wished to place Bill 2006 -135, as substituted, on the Informal Calendar at this time
to allow staff time to address concerns regarding the push cart issue brought up by Mr.
Driver earlier in the meeting.
Bill 2006 -136, sponsored by Councilman Vogel, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, AUTHORIZING THE
MAYOR AND CITY CLERK TO EXECUTE AN AGREEMENT WITH BUSCHER BACKHOE
AND LANDSCAPING, LLC FOR THE DEMOLITION OF CITY -OWNED PROPERTIES ON
THE 400 BLOCK OF E. MC CARTY STREET.
Bill 2006 -136 was read third time by title, placed on final passage and passed by the
following roll -call vote as Ordinance 14161:
Aye: Berry, Brown, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and Vogel
Nay: None
Bill 2006 -137, sponsored by Councilmen Ferguson and Harvey, entitled:
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF JEFFERSON, MISSOURI, AUTHORIZING THE
MAYOR AND CITY CLERK TO EXECUTE A COST PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT WITH
THE MISSOURI DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION.
Bill 2006 -137 was read third time by title, placed on final passage and passed by the
following roll -call vote as Ordinance 14162:
Aye: Berry, Brown, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and Vogel
Nay: None
INFORMAL CALENDAR
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 12
There were no issues on the Informal Calendar at this time.
RESOLUTIONS
RS2006 -27 - Adopting a Public Involvement Plan for Transportation Services for Transit.
A motion was made by Councilman Michael Berry to accept the Substitute RS2006 -27 which
was distributed to the Council at the Brown Bag meeting, seconded by Councilman Edith
Vogel, and approved unanimously. Mayor John Landwehr explained that the substitute
reduces the required notification period from 30 days to 15 days. Resolution RS2006 -27,
as substituted, was then adopted unanimously.
SCHEDULED REPORTS
No reports were given at this time. Mayor John Landwehr stated that the report scheduled
to be given by Gilbert Cole has been deferred to the March 5 meeting.
NEW BUSINESS
No New Business was brought forward at this time.
UNFINISH
ED BUSINESS
Councilman Edith Vogel asked if the city is still helping the citizens of Waveland, MS
following Hurricane Katrina. Mayor John Landwehr stated that at this time, the City of
Waveland is needing skilled volunteers.
GO INTO CLOSED SESSION
Mayor John Landwehr stated that, Pursuant to Sec. 610.021 of the Revised Statutes of
Missouri, the Chair would entertain a motion to go into Closed Session to discuss the
following:
a. Real Estate [Sec. 610.021.(2)]
A motion was made by Councilman Michael Berry to go into Closed Session, seconded by
Councilman Dan Klindt, and approved unanimously by the following roll -call vote at 9:30
P.M.:
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 19, 2007 13
Aye: Berry, Brown, Crane, Ferguson, Harvey, Klindt, Layton, Pope, and Vogel
Nay: None