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HomeMy Public PortalAbout1997-09-26 Workshop Meeting14'7 COUNCIL MINUTES WORKSHOP MEETING - SEPTEMBER 29.1997 A Workshop Meeting of the Bal Harbour Village Council was held on Monday, September 29, 1997, in the Conference Room at Bal Harbour Village Hall. The meeting was called to order at 4:10 p.m. by Mayor Spiegel. Those present were: Also present: Mayor Estelle Spiegel Assistant Mayor Andrew R. Hirschl Councilman James E. Boggess Councilman Peg E. Gorson Councilman Daniel S. Tantleff Alfred J. Treppeda, Village Manager Jeanette Horton, Village Clerk Daniel Nieda, Village Building Official Robert Wheldon, Village Public Works Director 2. Presentation of Conceptual Layouts for Beach Master Plan - Bob Gill, Bradshaw. Gill & Associates: Mr. Treppeda introduced Bob Gill, Bradshaw, Gill & Associates, and R. Harvey Sasso, Coastal Systems International, Inc. Councilman Tantleff questioned if they were the lowest bidder for this project. Mr. Treppeda replied yes that they were the lowest bidder. Mr. Gill stated that they are Landscape Architects/Land Planners and they got Mr. Sasso involved because he is an Environmental Planner and he has a better feel for what Tallahassee is looking for and what they will allow as far as what can and cannot be permitted. Mr. Gill then displayed the plans. He stated that some of the nice things that are already there are the groupings of Coconut Palms and Sea Oats and the alignment of the existing jogging path has a natural "beachy" kind of character. Some of the negative things are the large existing groupings of Sea Grape, Silver Buttonwood, and some of the things that block the view. Safety is sort of an issue when there are vertical bulkhead walls from each condominium and then a very private look. In addition, the existing vegetation blocks the beach. Mr. Gill stated what they're showing is a proposed bicycle path and areas where they've elevated the walkway, and they would like to trim the existing vegetation and remove some of it. Councilman Tantleff stated that an issue he thinks that needs to be touched on is if a bicycle path is really wanted. He stated that most of the people that bicycle live in the residential area and questioned if they really want to open this up to a bicycle path for everyone from South Beach and Broward to bicycle here. He doesn't know if that is what's really wanted. He stated he wants to make it beautiful, but he thinks a bicycle path would Council Workshop Meeting 9/29/97 1 148 be a disaster. Mayor Spiegel agreed. Councilman Tantleff stated that he has received comments from residents. First, that the beautiful natural beach is being destroyed by putting bricks on it. Secondly, most people don't want Bal Harbour to have the prettiest jogging path/bicycle path in the Country. That it's a nice quiet community and they don't want everyone bicycling here. Assistant Mayor stated that was not going to happen. Mr. Sasso stated that the overall intent of the project is to preserve the existing jogging path, and in certain areas where it's been undermined try to move that landward as Phase One. Mr. Sasso then reviewed the plans for the jogging path. He stated that there are some areas that are only partially eroded or there's the potential for being eroded. Mr. Sasso stated that what they're doing is bringing it tighter to the existing vegetation and replanting Sea Oats to give further protection. In the south end, the jogging path comes up against the existing vegetation from 96th Street to the Bal Harbour Tower. Assistant Mayor Hirschl questioned if moving it landward that degree will be sufficient enough to prevent the continued erosion problem. Mr. Sasso stated that given the ongoing maintenance renourishment projects, yes. Assistant Mayor Hirschl stated that the concept has also been discussed if the Sea Oats are cut back, and that area is developed, if it would be safer putting a path in that area that is not going to be high maintenance. If curving it in a few spots would do the job. Assistant Mayor Hirsch) stated that he thinks the Council's thought is how they can make it last the best. Mr. Sasso stated that from a coastal engineering point of view, it's desirable to be back at least 100 feet to 150 feet to minimize the impact. Assistant Mayor Hirschl questioned Mr. Sasso if he has seen Surfside's jogging path. Mr. Sasso replied no. Assistant Mayor Hirschl stated that he needs to because they have their jogging path as far west as possible and they have low cut Sea Oats. He doesn't want to emanate what they have because it's a straight line, but it's effective because the residents get to see the ocean and they have low maintenance. Assistant Mayor questioned if the path could be run directly through the Sea Oats. Mr. Sasso stated that is what they are proposing, and he thinks it's permittable as long as they replant the old path and trade it for what they're taking out. There is also an opportunity of cleaning out the underbrush so a view is seen through it. Mr. Gill then displayed the Cross Sections of the plans and reviewed same. He stated that some of the vegetation could be maintained. It doesn't have to grow to 6 feet and 7 feet in height. It can be maintained at 2 1/2 feet to 3 feet, which gives more of a view. Mr. Nieda questioned if the proposed bicycle path was also meant to serve as the emergency access road. Mr. Gill responded yes. Mr. Nieda stated that one concern that he has is the series of turns and that emergency vehicles are limited in terms of the radiuses. He stated that should be checked. Mr. Gill stated that he thinks they need to ask the Fire Department if they need to have access on that road. Mr. Treppeda stated that construction trucks would also be utilizing that road and would need to be able to make Council Workshop Meeting 9/29/97 2 149 those turns. Mr. Gill stated that they can accommodate anything the Council wants. They can make it smaller, bigger, etc. The intent was basically to put some concepts on the table and get some feedback. Mr. Gill stated all the landscaping on the condominiums was oriented to Collins Avenue, and the level of landscape architecture in the back is not the same. They're trying to re -image that area and get a cleaner more simplified and elegant style of landscape architecture. Councilman Boggess stated that area was not intended to be an alley way, the whole area should be improved because it is a tourist attraction. Certainly, there are ways to improve it without destroying its effectiveness as an access for emergency vehicles. Assistant Mayor Hirsch) questioned if in their concept they had not been asked to consider a bicycle path, if their vision would had differed regarding the jogging path. Mr. Gill stated yes, he thinks the initial concept was to have two paths; a jogging path and a bicycle path with a separation between the two. Assistant Mayor Hirsch) questioned if the Council were to be interested in a jogging/walking path only, and took advantage of the back alley and ran it in a real serpentine sort of concept, if that could be accomplished and also meet all of the environmental criteria while still being able to see the ocean. Mayor Spiegel added and still have the emergency path for police cars and other vehicles that go by there. Mr. Gill stated to keep in mind that the existing location is nice even though it might be a little too close to the ocean and it's being eroded. Councilman Boggess stated if it is meandered and the sitting areas improved out there, there are a lot of people that go out there that don't want to walk or run, they just want to enjoy the ocean. He thinks that can be done with going behind the dune so that the chances of the walking area being eroded are very slim. Assistant Mayor Hirsch) stated that the Vita Course needs to be included too. Councilman Tantleff asked Mr. Sasso if he was convinced if the sections of the jogging path are moved back, that it will no longer be eroded barring a hurricane. Mr. Sasso stated that if it was moved back 150 feet, the probability of damage within a five year period would be pretty low. In other words, once every five years there might have to be some work. 100 feet is starting on the low side, and going to 150 feet is on the safer side. Mr. Gill questioned Mr. Sasso about Dade County's renourishment plan. Mr. Sasso stated they have a pretty aggressive plan for the renourishment of Bal Harbour. They have a problem because they're running out of sand right now. Mr. Sasso stated that they've done a study for Dade County to understand how the sand is flowing through the area. They've seen that Bal Harbour is eroding, on average, about 30,000 cubic yards per year. A lot of that is due to the Inlet and that there's a limit of sand that's being able to be bypassed across the Inlet. One of their recommendations to Dade County was instead of waiting every seven years to do another renourishment project, to try to improve it by, on a regular basis, bypassing a certain amount of sand across the Inlet and put that on the beach. Doing that, the life of these project would almost double. He thinks that is something that Dade County is going to be looking at here in the next year or two. Council Workshop Meeting 9/29/97 3 1.50 Councilman Boggess questioned if they've done that at the Hillsboro Inlet. Mr. Sasso replied yes, that the Hillsboro Inlet has a regular bypass program. Councilman Tantleff questioned who would need to be contacted. Mr. Sasso stated that he would be happy to come back and present a slide show. On September 3 d, they presented a paper at the Florida Shore & Beach Preservation Association, and they've presented it to the Corp of Engineers in Jacksonville. He stated that they could do a presentation and also invite Brian Flynn, the beach coordinator for Dade County. Mr. Wheldon stated that Mr. Flynn said it wasn't feasible to do that here. Mr. Sasso stated that Mr. Flynn said that, but he thinks that was before their report came out and before they were seeing such a shortage of sand. He thinks it needs to be explored a little bit more. Mr. Wheldon questioned who's opinion it is that it can be done now, because everybody who has investigated it for the past 15 years said it wasn't practical because there wasn't enough sand. Mr. Sasso stated that their report says that there is an accumulation of sand right now north of the Inlet. As a result of the Hollywood/Hallandale project and the Sunny Isles project and the re-adjustment/re-alignment of the jetty, there is an accumulation and building of sand north of the north jetty. He continued that the Corps of Engineers has done some corings and are looking at the ebb shoal on the north side of the Inlet as a possible source of sand for some other projects. Their recommendation is, if the comment was that its not practical to install a permanent bypassing plan, then he would agree with that. But, if the thought was that maybe every 2 or 3 years they could come in with a small hydraulic dredge and pump the sand that's accumulating in that shoal and put it on the beaches, then he would go with that. That there's a potential movement of sand through the area of about 80,000 cubic yards a year. But, what's actually naturally bypassing is only about 20,000 cubic yards per year. So, there is sand that could be put on these beaches. Mr. Sasso stated that he has a report and will send Mr. Treppeda copies for distribution. The sand bar was then discussed. Mr. Treppeda stated that Bal Harbour is the proposed recipient for the dredging that's suppose to start as soon as they clear up some problems that they've been having. Councilman Tantleff stated that, in accordance with what Assistant Mayor Hirschl stated, the Council needs to get their thoughts together. Assistant Mayor Hirschl stated that he thinks the concept planning is, as beautiful as Bal Harbour looks on A1A, that's the way it should look on the ocean front. The residents deserve it, the tourists deserve it and they will spend the money if they think it's appropriate and they need to preserve the jogging path. There needs to be a real meandering. Councilman Boggess stated that Mr. Gill had the right idea. Trim the Sea Grapes, cut down the Scaevola and then the breeze would come through and the ocean would be seen. Mr. Gill stated that it sounds as though they should re -visit the path and push it back a little bit more than it's shown and trim out some of the trees. Also, dress up the back of the Council Workshop Meeting 9/29/97 4 151 condominiums. Discussion was held on whether to utilize parts of the existing path or build a new one. Mr. Sasso questioned if they want to get rid of the two walkways and only have one walkway pushed further in. Mayor Spiegel said no, they wanted a jogging path and vehicle path. Assistant Mayor Hirschl questioned what the objection is to allowing bicycles on a bike path. Mayor Spiegel stated safety and security. Mr. Sasso stated that they feel strongly in wanting to see some paver blocks back there. Paver blocks don't necessarily mean that it is a bicycle path. One of the issues is if it's a promenade, do they want a paver block one or a compacted sand jogging path that can also serve as a promenade. Assistant Mayor Hirsch) stated that the paver block problem is that if you walk on it barefoot, its very hot compared to the sand, so you have to wear shoes. Councilman Tantleff stated that the first thing to consider is if they want to give approval to just move the three sections 150 feet west. Mr. Sasso stated that he thinks they need to go back because they were thinking in a different mode, they were thinking of the two path concept. He thinks that they're hearing that the Council really wants them to look at the jogging path and get a little bit more aggressive with it and push it back. Councilman Tantleff stated that two separate paths were still needed for the emergency vehicles. Mr. Sasso proposed that they go back and be a little bit more aggressive on that and push it back a little bit more, cut the Scaevola, clean out the underbrush, open it up, and also have some roundabouts with some seating areas. He thinks they can leave the vehicle access where it is and dress up some of the other areas with landscaping and seating. That can be tried out and then in a year or two from now they can go to the next phase and start putting some paver blocks in and doing a few more things. It all doesn't have to happen at one time. Assistant Mayor Hirsch) stated that they should see three to five different concepts. Mr. Sasso stated that he thinks they need interlocking pavers. Councilman Boggess questioned the price of pavers. Mr. Treppeda stated that the Sheraton spent $75,000 doing their pavers. Mr. Sasso stated that it would be slightly under a half a million dollars just for the interlocking pavers. Mr. Gill discussed what was being done in Miami Beach. Assistant Mayor Hirsch) stated what the Council wants is a jogging path, some sort of vehicular aesthetic path, landscaping as west as possible against the condominiums, and minimal seating areas. Mr. Nieda stated he had a question regarding grading. That their intent is to maintain the high point of the road of 96th street, because right now it's ramping down. He would like to hear how they plan to address the accessibility issue from the sidewalk and accessibility in general. He needs to be able to tell the Developer of the Majestic Condominium in terms of doing some preliminary grading so it's consistent. It needs to be handled in the next few months. Mr. Gill stated that the whole paver walkway is designed to be handicapped accessible. So, no slope would be greater than 120. The 96`" Street entrance was discussed. Mr. Treppeda questioned if the north entrance was addressed. Mr. Gill stated Council Workshop Meeting 9/29/97 5 152 that they're suggesting a row of palm trees to provide a little more shade. That would have to be worked out with the Harbour House. Mr. Nieda stated that the Harbour House is going to be planting some landscaping there during their renovation project. The construction traffic on the access road was discussed. Mr. Sasso stated what he had discussed with Mr. Treppeda was that this was really a fast track to try to get the jogging path back in order. So their proposal was really to come in and get the jogging path back and push it back in a few areas and to try to get that done before December. They were going to go ahead and initiate the permitting and the design to re -locate it, have it meander and take that design to Tallahassee. Councilman Boggess questioned where the critical spots were. Mr. Sasso reviewed the critical spots. A temporary solution was discussed. Mr. Sasso stated that if it can be made through another season with what is there, with some of the repairs that are going on, that would probably be the best. Then, Mr. Gill and him could come back with another proposal. Then, once the re -location of the jogging path has been agreed on, they can permit everything at the same time. 3. Adjourn: There being no further business to come before the Council, the meeting adjourned at 5:24 p.m. Mayor Estelle p gel Attest: c ilt_c.ct-eCi) eanette Horton, CMC/AAE Village Clerk /elw Council Workshop Meeting 9/29/97 6