HomeMy Public PortalAboutMinutes - 2005/06/14 - RegularPLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
JUNE 14, 2005
• INITIATION:
1. CALL TO ORDER
Pursuant to the Agenda posted June 9, 2005, Chairman Griffiths called the
meeting of the Planning Commission to order at 7:30 p.m. on Tuesday, June 14, 2005.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG
3. ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners: Le Berthon, Blum, Yu, Griffiths
Absent: Commissioner Seibert
Also Present: City Attorney Martin, Community Development Director
Dawson, and Senior Planner Lambert
Vice- Chairman Blum - Made a motion to excuse Commissioner Seibert for cause,
seconded by Commissioner Le Berthon and unanimously carried.
• 4. TIME FOR THOSE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WISH TO SPEAK
Vern Nelson, 9843 Olive St., Temple City — Stated that he had a concern about the
accidents on Olive and Baldwin. Stated that there was a fatality at that intersection last
month and that since then there have been other accidents.
Chairman Griffiths — Asked what time of day the accident occurred.
Vern Nelson — Stated that it was about 3:30 p.m.
Commissioner! e Berthon — Asked what he felt might be the cause of the accidents.
Vern Nelson — Stated that he was not sure and that perhaps it was because cars were
speeding.
5. CONSENT CALENDAR:
A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES May 24, 2005
RECOMMENDATION: APPROVE AS SUBMITTED
• Chairman Griffiths — Stated that he wanted to delete the words "and unanimously
carried" on page 6 of the draft minutes.
Planning Commission
June 14, 2005
Page 2
Vice- Chairman Blum — Made a motion to approve the minutes of May 24, 2005, as, •
amended, seconded by Commissioner Yu, and unanimously carried.
6. UNFINISHED BUSINESS: None
7. NEW BUSINESS:
A. PUBLIC HEARING: SEVERAL ZONE VARIANCES IN CONJUNCTION WITH
THE CONSTRUCTION OF A 3,303 SQUARE FOOT
ADDITION TO AN EXISTING 1,263 SQUARE FOOT
SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE AND A 739 SQUARE
FOOT SECOND UNIT AS FOLLOWS: (1). TO ALLOW A
5' -0" SIDE YARD SETBACK IN LIEU OF 5' -6" REQUIRED
FOR THE PROPOSED SINGLE STORY ADDITION; (2).
TO ALLOW A 10' -6" WIDE DRIVEWAY IN LIEU OF 15' -0"
REQUIRED; (3). TO ALLOW 4' -0" SIDE YARD SETBACKS
FOR THE PROPOSED GARAGE /SECOND UNIT; (4). TO
ALLOW A 5 -CAR GARAGE (WHICH IS REQUIRED BY
CODE) WITH 2 SPACES THAT ARE IN TANDEM AND
NOT INDEPENDENTLY ACCESSIBLE; (5). TO ALLOW
AN 18' -4" HEIGHT FOR THE PROPOSED DETACHED
GARAGE /SECOND UNIT IN LIEU OF THE 15' -0" •
MAXIMUM HEIGHT LIMIT; AND (6). TO ALLOW A 739
SQUARE FOOT SECOND UNIT (INSTEAD OF THE
MAXIMUM PERMITTED 640 SQUARE FEET). THE
SUBJECT SITE IS LOCATED AT 9837 OLIVE STREET
AND IS SITUATED IN THE SINGLE - FAMILY
RESIDENTIAL (R -1) ZONE.
SITE: 9837 OLIVE STREET
CASE NO.: ZONE VARIANCE 05 -1617
PROPERTY OWNER/
APPLICANT: FRANK & MARIA MACCHIA
9108 BROADWAY
TEMPLE CITY, CALIFORNIA 91780
RECOMMENDATION: 1) HEAR STAFF REPORT
2) HEAR THOSE FOR AND AGAINST
3) CATEGORICALLY EXEMPT [15301]
4) ADOPT RESOLUTION
Director Dawson — Read the Staff Report dated June 14, 2005.
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P l a n n i n g C o m m i s s i o n
J u n e 1 4 , 2 0 0 5
P a g e 3
S e n i o r P l a n n e r I a m b e r t G a v e a P o w e r P o i n t p r e s e n t a t i o n .
C i t y A t t o r n e y M a r t i n S t a t e d t h a t i t l o o k s a s i f s o m e o n e s o l d o f f t h e b a c k p o r t i o n t o t h e
l o t t o t h e e a s t .
D i r e c t o r D a w s o n S t a t e d t h a t i t a p p e a r s t h a t t h e r e i s a l o t s p l i t t h a t h a s a f l a g
c o m p o n e n t t o i t a n d i t a p p e a r s t h a t t h e r e a r e t h r e e h o u s e s o n a s i n g l e l o t , t w o l o t s d o w n
f r o m t h e s u b j e c t s i t e .
C o m m i s s i o n e r Y u S t a t e d t h a t t h e r e a r e m a n y f l a g l o t d e v e l o p m e n t s o n O l i v e .
C h a i r m a n G r i f f i t h s A s k e d i f t h e r e w e r e a n y q u e s t i o n s o f S t a f f a n d o p e n e d t h e P u b l i c
H e a r i n g .
F r a n k M a c c h i a , 9 1 0 8 B r o a d w a y , T e m p l e C i t y S t a t e d t h a t h e n e v e r a s k e d f o r a
v a r i a n c e f o r t h e h e i g h t . S t a t e d t h a t t h e l a u n d r y p o r t i o n o f t h e s e c o n d u n i t c o u l d b e
e l i m i n a t e d t o m e e t t h e n e c e s s a r y r e q u i r e m e n t s . S t a t e d t h a t h e w a n t e d a n e x p l a n a t i o n
o f t h e f i n d i n g s i n t h e d r a f t r e s o l u t i o n . S t a t e d t h a t h e d i d n o t f e e l i t w a s r i g h t t o l a b e l h i s
" s t u d y r o o m " a s a b e d r o o m b e c a u s e t h i s i n c r e a s e s h i s p a r k i n g r e q u i r e m e n t . S t a t e d t h a t
h e w a n t e d c l a r i f i c a t i o n a b o u t w h y t h e S t a f f R e p o r t w a s r e c o m m e n d i n g d e n i a l .
D i r e c t o r D a w s o n A s k e d w h o w o u l d l i v e i n t h e s e c o n d u n i t .
F r a n k M a c c h i a , 9 1 0 8 B r o a d w a y , T e m p l e C i t y S t a t e d t h a t i t w o u l d b e h i s s o n .
C h a i r m a n G r i f f i t h s S t a t e d t h a t a s e c o n d u n i t i s a l l o w e d b u t w i t h s t r i c t g u i d e l i n e s .
D i r e c t o r D a w s o n S t a t e d t h a t m a n y l o t s i n t h i s a r e a h a v e m u l t i p l e u n i t s , w h i c h a r e
L e g a l n o n - c o n f o r m i n g , a n d t h e r e a r e m a n y f l a g T o t s i n t h e a r e a a s w e l l . S t a t e d t h a t t h e
p r o p e r t y i s z o n e d R - 1 a n d t h a t t h o s e s t a n d a r d s s h o u l d b e f o l l o w e d . S t a t e d t h a t i n
r e v i e w i n g t h e p l a n , t h e r e a r e m a n y p l a c e s w h e r e t h e p r o j e c t d o e s n o t m e e t t h e C o d e
a n d i t i s d i f f i c u l t t o m a k e t h e r e q u i r e d f i n d i n g s .
F r a n k M a c c h i a , 9 1 0 8 B r o a d w a y , T e m p l e C i t y S t a t e d t h a t i t w o u l d b e d i f f i c u l t t o a d d o n
i f h e h a d t o f o l l o w t h e r e q u i r e m e n t s . S t a t e d t h a t h e w o u l d h a v e t o r e m o v e f i v e f e e t f r o m
a r o o m a n d t h a t i s a d r a s t i c r e d u c t i o n . S t a t e d t h a t h e c o u l d n o t s e e t h e p o i n t i n a d d i n g
o n w i t h t h e s e t y p e s o f r e s t r i c t i o n s .
C o m m i s s i o n e r Y t t A s k e d i f h e h a d s p o k e n t o h i s a r c h i t e c t i n o r d e r t o c o m e u p w i t h a
d e s i g n t h a t m e e t s t h e c o d e .
F r a n k M a c c h i a , 9 1 0 8 B r o a d w a y , T e m p l e C i t y S t a t e d t h a t h i s a r c h i t e c t w a s a w a r e o f
t h e r e s t r i c t i o n s , b u t n o t a l l o f t h e m b e c a u s e s o m e o f t h e m a r e n e w . A s k e d w h a t t h e b i g
" d e a l w a s a b o u t t h e a d d i t i o n a l s i x i n c h e s o f s e t b a c k .
N : \ W o r d \ D e p a r t m e n t \ C D D \ M I N S \ P C M I N U T E S 2 0 0 5 \ P C M I N U T E S J u n e 1 4 2 0 0 5 . d o c
Planning Commission
June 14, 2005
Page 4
Chairman Griffiths — Stated that zoning regulations and rules are developed over a long
period of time and the zoning ordinances reflect what the majority of the residents of the
City would like to see in the community. Stated that you need to find out the rules
before you plan a project.
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• 1: : •.1 I .
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— Stated that he felt the rules did not
make common sense. Stated that there should be rules and exceptions to the rules.
Chairman Griffiths — Stated that the Planning Commission is here to possibly grant
some exceptions.
Li-Chairman Blurn — Asked the applicant if the designer has met with Staff to try to
come up with some possible solutions.
Director Dawson — Asked the Planners if they recall having interaction with the
applicant's designer.
nior Plann .r amb . — Stated that he did interact with the Applicant, but not his
designer. Stated that he did give the applicant some options but the applicant elected
to apply for a Zone Variance.
Frank Macchia, 9108 Broadway, Temple City — Stated that the recommendations went
against common sense.
Chairman Griffiths — Asked if anyone else wanted to speak in favor of the application.
• ' - — Stated that he is a neighbor and was in favor
of the requested variances. Stated that he felt there were very small lots with big homes
on them and that this is a large lot and should be granted the variances.
►- •o •:4
-u1 —
Chairman Griffiths — Asked if anyone else wanted to speak in favor of the application.
Asked the applicant if he wanted to speak in rebuttal.
Vice- Chairman Blum — Made a motion to close the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Yu.
Chairman Griffiths — Hearing no objection, closed the public hearing and began
discussion.
Commissioner I e Berthon — Stated that the Planning Commission is constrained to
follow the Zoning Code and in this case he does not see a substantial reason to
grantvariances. Stated that there are too many variances and not any particular reason
to grant them. Stated that he would have to vote against granting the variances.
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P l a n n i n g C o m m i s s i o n
J u n e 1 4 , 2 0 0 5
P a g e 5
C o m m i s s i o n e r Y u S t a t e d t h a t h e w o u l d l i k e t o g o t h r o u g h t h e v a r i a n c e s o n e b y o n e .
S t a t e d t h i s i s a o n e - s t o r y h o u s e a n d t h e a p p l i c a n t h a s c h o s e n n o t t o b u i l d a t w o - s t o r y
h o u s e . T h e f r o n t e l e v a t i o n l o o k s l i k e a " T e m p l e C i t y H o u s e " a n d h a s c h a r a c t e r . S t a t e d
t h a t t h e p u r p o s e o f t h e C o d e a n d C o d e A m e n d m e n t s a r e t h a t t h e h o u s i n g a n d b u i l d i n g
s t o c k w i l l i m p r o v e . S t a t e d t h a t t h e r e i s n o r e a s o n w h y t h e n e w h o u s e c o u l d n o t m e e t
t h e r e q u i r e d s i d e y a r d s e t b a c k . A s f a r a s t h e d r i v e w a y v a r i a n c e , i f t h e d e s i g n e r h a d
s p e n t m o r e t i m e o n t h e d e s i g n h e w o u l d h a v e b e e n a b l e t o d e s i g n t h e p r o p e r s i z e d
d r i v e w a y a n d a p r o j e c t w i t h c o n f o r m i n g s i d e y a r d s e t b a c k s . S t a t e d t h a t t h e d r i v e w a y i s
v e r y l o n g a n d i t w o u l d b e d i f f i c u l t t o m a n e u v e r i n a n d o u t o f i t . S t a t e d t h a t r e g a r d i n g t h e
t h i r d v a r i a n c e r e q u e s t f o r t h e f o u r - f o o t s i d e y a r d f o r t h e g a r a g e , t h a t t h e r e i s n o r e a s o n
t h i s c a n n o t b e c o m p l i e d w i t h . A s f a r a s t h e f o u r t h v a r i a n c e , h e d o e s n o t h a v e a
p r o b l e m w i t h t h a t o n e . S t a t e d t h a t t h e l a s t t w o w e r e a m i s s - p r i n t a n d t h e a p p l i c a n t s a i d
t h a t h e d o e s n o t n e e d t h o s e t w o v a r i a n c e s . S t a t e d t h a t i n s u m m a r y , h e f e l t t h e p r o j e c t
c o u l d b e r e - d e s i g n e d t o m e e t t h e c o d e . S t a t e d t h a t h e c o u l d n o t s u p p o r t t h e p r o j e c t a s
p r o p o s e d .
V i c e - C h a i r m a n B l u m S t a t e d h e f e l t t h e s a m e w a y a n d t h a t h e f e l t i t w o u l d b e a n i c e
h o u s e i f i t w e r e r e d e s i g n e d . S t a t e d t h a t h e c o u l d n o t m a k e t h e f i n d i n g s t o g r a n t t h e
r e q u e s t e d v a r i a n c e s .
C h a i r m a n G r i f f i t h s S t a t e d t h a t h e c o n c u r r e d . S t a t e d t h a t C o m m i s s i o n e r Y u m a d e a
g o o d a n a l y s i s o f t h e v a r i a n c e s a n d t h a t f i v e o f t h e m c o u l d b e e l i m i n a t e d w i t h a p r o p e r l y
d e s i g n e d p r o j e c t . S t a t e d t h a t f i n d i n g s c o u l d n o t b e m a d e t o s u p p o r t t h e g r a n t i n g o f
s u c h v a r i a n c e s .
C o m m i s s i o n e r I e B e r t h o n M a d e a m o t i o n t o d e n y Z o n e V a r i a n c e 0 5 - 1 6 1 7 f o r t h e
r e a s o n s s e t f o r t h a n d t o a d o p t t h e d r a f t r e s o l u t i o n , s e c o n d e d b y V i c e - C h a i r m a n B l u m
a n d u n a n i m o u s l y c a r r i e d .
C h a i r m a n G r i f f i t h s S t a t e d t h a t t h e m o t i o n t o d e n y c a r r i e d a n d w a s s u b j e c t t o a 1 5 - d a y
a p p e a l / r e v i e w p e r i o d .
N : \ W o r d \ D e p a r t m e n t \ C D D \ M I N S \ P C M I N U T E S 2 0 0 5 \ P C M I N U T E S J u n e 1 4 2 0 0 5 . d o c
Planning Commission
June 14, 2005
Page 6
B. PUBLIC HEARING: A ZONE VARIANCE TO ALLOW THE REPLACEMENT OF
AN EXISTING GARAGE WITH A NEW GARAGE, WHICH
WOULD HAVE A WIDTH OF 19 FEET (INSTEAD OF THE
REQUIRED 20 FEET). THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT
GARAGE IS PROPOSED TO BE CONSTRUCTED IN
CONJUNCTION WITH A REMODEL OF AN EXISTING
DWELLING, WHERE THE NEW GARAGE WOULD BE
RESITUATED BETWEEN THE EXISTING DWELLING AND
THE STREET, BEHIND THE FRONT YARD SETBACK.
ALSO, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING A 5 -FOOT
EASTERLY SIDE YARD SETBACK AND A 5 -FOOT
WESTERLY SIDE YARD SETBACK FOR A PORTION OF
THE ADDITION (INSTEAD OF THE REQUIRED 6 FEET).
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS ZONED R -1: SINGLE
FAMILY RESIDENTIAL. THIS VARIANCE REQUEST
WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED BY THE PLANNING
COMMISSION ON OCTOBER 14, 2003 AS ZV 03 -1535.
THAT APPROVAL EXPIRED ON OCTOBER 14, 2004,
THEREFORE, THE OWNER HAS RE- APPLIED FOR THE
SAME REQUEST
SITE: 9614 OLIVE STREET
CASE NO.: ZONE VARIANCE 05 -1619
PROPERTY OWNER/
APPLICANT: ANDY NGUYEN
9614 OLIVE STREET
TEMPLE CITY, CALIFORNIA 91780
RECOMMENDATION: 1) HEAR STAFF REPORT
2) HEAR THOSE FOR AND AGAINST
3) CATEGORICALLY EXEMPT [15301]
4) ADOPT RESOLUTION
Director Dawson - Read the Staff Report dated June 14, 2005.
Senior Planner 1 amhert — Gave a PowerPoint presentation.
f:hairman Griffiths — Asked if there were any questions of Staff and opened the Public
Hearing.
Mr. Nguyen — Stated that he is the designer of the project. Stated that relocating the
garage would make it safer for the owner to exit onto the street.
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Planning Commission
June 14, 2005
Page 7
• Chairman Griffiths — Asked if anyone else wanted to speak in favor of or against the
application.
Vice - Chairman Blum — Made a motion to close the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Le Berthon and carried without objection.
Chairman Griffiths — Closed the Public Hearing and began discussion.
Vice - Chairman Blum — Stated that the side yard setback is a minor variance and he did
not have a problem with it.
Commissioner I e Berthon — Stated that he concurred.
Commissioner Yu — Stated that he also concurred. Stated that for the most part, the set-
back is 12 -feet except for the new addition. Stated that he is in support of granting the
variance.
Chairman Griffiths — Stated that he could make the findings for the garage width, but not
for the setback variances. Stated that he could not make the necessary findings to
support the setback variances.
Vice - Chairman Blum — Stated that it is a new application and that he could concur with
• Chairman Griffiths that there are no special circumstances in this case. Stated that he
would be in favor of granting the garage variance but not the setback variance.
Commissioner Yu — Stated that losing a foot on the east side might be difficult to
overcome and the bathrooms would have to be reconfigured.
Commissioner I e Berthon — Stated that indeed this is a new application and it deserves
to be looked at further. It appears as though the new setback requirement might have
been overlooked and perhaps a new design could be submitted. Stated that he felt the
applicant could redesign the project.
Vice - Chairman Blum — Made a motion to approve the variance for the garage and deny
the variance for the setbacks and adopt the draft resolution as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Le Berthon.
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Chairman Griffiths — Stated that the motion was to deny the application for the setbacks
but approve the variance for the garage width.
Roll call vote
Commissioner Yu — Yes
Commissioner I e Berthon — Yes
Vice - Chairman Blum — Yes
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Planning Commission
June 14, 2005
Page 8
Chairman Griffiths - Yes
Chairman Griffiths — Stated that the decision was to deny the application for the setbacks
but approve the variance for the garage width. Stated that there is a 15 -day
appeal /review period.
C. PUBLIC HEARING: A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW THE
CONSTRUCTION OF EIGHT (8) APARTMENT UNITS.
THE SUBJECT SITE IS LOCATED IN THE HIGH DENSITY
(R -3) RESIDENTIAL ZONE
SITE: 5008 -5014 ROSEMEAD BOULEVARD
CASE NO.: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 05 -1618
PROPERTY OWNER/
APPLICANT: PEI -WEN CHANG AND XIAO -CHUN ZOU
2216 S. SECOND AVENUE
ARCADIA, CALIFORNIA 91006
RECOMMENDATION: 1) HEAR STAFF REPORT
2) HEAR THOSE FOR AND AGAINST
3) NEGATIVE DECLARATION
4) ADOPT RESOLUTION
Director Dawson — Read the Staff Report dated June 14, 2005.
Senior Planner I amhert — Gave a PowerPoint presentation
Chairman Griffiths — Asked if there were any questions of Staff and opened the Public
Hearing.
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.1. 1.
— Stated that the project complies
with all of the recently amended development standards, except for the guest parking
requirements. Stated that even though his plan had already been conceptually
approved, he altered certain areas in order to comply with some of the new
requirements. Stated that he would like to build high - quality rentals. Stated that he
would rather spend a little bit more money and have better housing. Stated that the
reason that he does not want to combine the lots is because it is harder to get a loan on
a commercial piece of property rather than on two four -unit apartment complex
Commissioner Yu — Asked the applicant why there were no windows on the first floor
facing the driveway. Asked why the "entry court" has no windows either.
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P l a n n i n g C o m m i s s i o n
J u n e 1 4 , 2 0 0 5
P a g e 9
P e i - W e n C h a n g , 2 2 1 6 S . S e c o n d A v e . , A r c a d i a S t a t e d t h a t t h e r e i s a w i n d o w o n b o t h
s i d e s a l o n g t h e d r i v e w a y . A s k e d t o a p p r o a c h t h e b o a r d a n d s h o w e d t h e P l a n n i n g
C o m m i s s i o n w h e r e t h e w i n d o w s a r e . S t a t e d t h a t t h e r e s h o u l d b e a 4 x 4 w i n d o w o n
e a c h s i d e o f t h e e n t r y c o u r t . S t a t e d t h a t t h e c h a n g e s c a n b e e a s i l y d o n e .
D i r e c t o r D a w s o n A s k e d t h e a p p l i c a n t i f h e o b j e c t e d t o a c o n d i t i o n t h a t t h e T o t s n o t b e
s o l d s e p a r a t e l y .
P e i - W e n C h a n g , 2 2 1 6 S . S e c o n d A v e . , A r c a d i a S t a t e d t h a t h e d i d n o t o b j e c t t o t h a t
l a n g u a g e
C h a i r m a n G r i f f i t h s A s k e d i f a n y o n e e l s e w a n t e d t o s p e a k
V i c e - C h a i r m a n B l u m M a d e a m o t i o n t o c l o s e t h e P u b l i c H e a r i n g , s e c o n d e d b y
C o m m i s s i o n e r Y u .
C h a i r m a n G r i f f i t h s T h e r e b e i n g n o o b j e c t i o n , t h e P u b l i c H e a r i n g w a s c l o s e d .
C o m m i s s i o n e r Y u S t a t e d t h a t h e d i d n o t o b j e c t t o t h e p r o j e c t . S t a t e d t h a t h e w a n t e d t o
h a v e t h e l a n g u a g e i n s e r t e d a b o u t t h e w i n d o w s .
C o m m i s s i o n e r 1 e B e r t h o n S t a t e d t h a t h e c o n c u r r e d b u t w a n t e d t o c l a r i f y t h a t t h e
a p p l i c a n t h a s a g r e e d t o c h a n g e t h e w i n d o w s .
C h a i r m a n G r i f f i t h s A s k e d i f t h e c o n d i t i o n w a s t o m o v e t h e w i n d o w o r a d d a w i n d o w .
C o m m i s s i o n e r L e B e r t h o n S t a t e d t h a t i f i t w e r e t o a d d a w i n d o w , t h e n h e w o u l d a g r e e .
A s k e d i f a d e e d r e s t r i c t i o n w o u l d b e p l a c e d o n t h e p r o p e r t i e s a n d i f s o , t h e n h e c o u l d
a p p r o v e t h e p r o j e c t .
V i c e - C h a i r m a n B l u m S t a t e d t h a t h e w a s i n f a v o r o f t h e p r o j e c t .
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s o m e a d d i t i o n a l a r c h i t e c t u r a l f e a t u r e s .
C o m m i s s i o n e r Y u M a d e a m o t i o n t o a p p r o v e C o n d i t i o n a l U s e P e r m i t 0 5 - 1 6 1 8 w i t h t h e
a m e n d m e n t s a s d i s c u s s e d a n d a d o p t t h e d r a f t R e s o l u t i o n a n d t h e N e g a t i v e D e c l a r a t i o n ,
s e c o n d e d b y C o m m i s s i o n e r L e B e r t h o n a n d u n a n i m o u s l y c a r r i e d .
C h a i r m a n G r i f f i t h s S t a t e d t h a t t h e a p p r o v a l h a s b e e n g r a n t e d a n d i s s u b j e c t t o a 1 5 - d a y
a p p e a l / r e v i e w p e r i o d .
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9 . M A T T E R S F R O M C I T Y O F F I C I A L S :
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N : \ W o r d \ D e p a r t m e n t \ C D D \ M I N S \ P C M I N U T E S 2 0 0 5 \ P C M I N U T E S J u n e 1 4 2 0 0 5 . d o c