HomeMy Public PortalAbout19810209 council work session 40
Cat Inc W rls_hie.e. n,...k'
Mayor Hartsfield presided.
Councilmen present: Brant, Crader, Hequembourg, Gordon, Prenger,
Wade and Whitecotton.
Councilmen absent: Borgmeyer, Halsey and Kliegel.
The first order of business was discussion on Cable Television,
presentation to be made by T.C.I. Cablevision, Inc. , the Company
operating the service in the City at this time. Cable
Attorney Henry Andrea, representing Telecommunications , Inc. , Television.
introduced Paul Alden, Vice President of Corporate Development, and
Harold Farrow, Special Counsel.
The following is complete transcript of the testimony given,
transcribed from our tape for the Attorneys , by a local Certified
Court Reporter.
(see attached)
The next item of business - the Solid Waste Issue.
Mayor opened the discussion by asking Mr. Joe DeLong to take
the floor. Mr. DeLong stated he would be glad to answer any
questions but thought first he would toss out some information that
not everyone was aware of.
Number One. The site we suggested be tested, that we asked
you to hire an engineering firm for, we have done with the process
of having the Geologist look at all the sites we have looked at, so
we have gone as far with unpaid people as we can go without Solid
physically doing some engineering work on the site. All of the Waste
sites we sought out are sites which the Geologists have mapped as -
having possible landfill potential soil. We only looked at those Issue Issue -1
sites because the rest of the sites would have been a waste of Sites
time - they would be ruled out because of soil conditions . When
we asked you to hire the Engineering Firm we had gone thru all that
process , we had gone thru the process of negotiating something with
the owners so you would know what you were dealing with, a purchase
or a lease. The arrangement we had made was that the owner was
willing to give a twenty-year lease, or a lease based on the length
of time to use up the amount of acreage we had located. In this
particular case, we were suggesting you start with 160 acres - the
160 acres cdnsists of a considerable amount of land and is within
reasonable trucking distance of Jefferson City.
One of the big problems everyone is going to face in the
future on disposal of trash is basically, if you drive to every
piece of property surrounding Jefferson City, within a ten mile
radius , you find people have built homes or business buildings .
What our Committee conscientiously tried to do was look at property
to lease, within the reasonable distance - that would not disturb
anyone. The 160 acres we wanted you to test is as far as you can
possibly get from anyone else. If you wait a year or two or three
in acquiring a site, I do not feel you are going to find sites with..
in a reasonable distance. I do think you should take a hard look
at your east side site from a life view. Personally, I do not
think there is more than seven or eight years of life for that
spot . If you hire an expert , perhaps they could determine that for
you, and I think you should before you lock yourself in. There
isn't anyway either that you can appoint a Committee and have them
go out and find property and then throw it open to bid, because for
each piece of property our Committee has suggested to you, we have
had five previously, but people put so much pressure on those other
four they would withdraw their desire to sell. It is an issue no
one wants to live with, but it is something that is serious - it
is going to be a number of years before this City can recycle and
dispose of trash down to a minimum. Someday you may dispose of it
by making electricity or steam but you still will need a landfill
to dispose of ten, fifteen or twenty per cent of it. Presently, if
you would recycle and remove all the paper, metals, etc. , you could
stretch out the landfill, but under any conditions you are going
to have to have a landfill.
I do think the City should have control of a landfill, not
saying you need to operate the landfill, you could acquire the land
by lease or purchase, and contract it out to anyone who will bid
on the pickup service. I do think if you pass up the opportunity
of finding a site now, in four or five years you are going to have
a real problem. Personally, as well as a member of the Committee,
_.._.s..__.__ 4
1 CITY COUNCIL MEETING
2 February 9, 1980
3 oOo
4 TCI CABLEVISION PRESENTATION TRANSCRIBED FROM MAGNETIC
TAPE NOT FROM THE NOTES OF A COURT REPORTER
5
6 oOo
BEFORE:
7
Mayor George Hartsfield
8 Councilman Grader
y Councilman Wade
j 9 Councilman Whitecotton
Councilman Prenger
10 Councilman Gordon
Councilman Hequembourg
11 Councilman Brant
I
12 MEMBERS.
t
, 13 000
yy
8 14 APPEARANCES:
2
W 15 On behalf of TCI Cablevision: HENRY P. ANDRAE
2 Attorney at Law
m 16 HENDREN AND ANDRAE
Y
The Monroe House
17 P.O. Box 1069
w Jefferson City, MO 65102
W 18
m
On behalf of the City Council: CHRISTOPHER GRAHAM
19 City Counsel
GRAHAM AND GRAHAM
20 300-B East High
Jefferson City, MO 65101
21
oOo
22
Transcribed by: Beverly Jean Dierks
23 Certified Shorthand Reporter
24 000
25
1
0
j: PROCEEDINGS
2 MR. ANDRAE: Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council,
Y_~
3 my name is Henry Andrae. I represent Tele-Communications, `'
ti
4 Incorporated who presently serve Jefferson City with
5 Cable Television.
6 We have an unrecovered investment for in excess
7 of $3 million. And I want to introduce Mr. Paul Alden,
8 Vice President of Corporate Development who will intro-
o
9 duce our principal speaker.
10 Mr. Alden. ``
M 11 MR. ALDEN: Thank you, Henry.
12 Mayor Hartsfield, Members of the Council, we
13 appreciate the opportunity we have to come before you
0, 14 again tonight. As you recall, we were here just a couple
x 15 of weeks ago discussing this issue. We felt it a very
a 16 important matter and therefore, we decided to spend a
t 17 few minutes with Mr. Graham this afternoon and we're .
9
2 18 grateful that he was able to give us the time.
19 I just need to ask your indulgence for a couple
20 of minutes. I leaned over to Henry a minute ago and said,
21 "Do you think they know who TCI is?"
22 And he said, "I doubt it." So I'm going to take
23 just a minute, if I can, just to tell you who we are,
24 what we're doing here, and perhaps introduce Harold in
25 this way.
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1 TCI today, we're acknowledged as the third '`'_' '
2 largest cable operator in the nation. We may be the ` "'
3 second. We're just in the process of completing a major
4 acquisition here in this part of the country that will -
5 add roughly another 130,000 subscribers.
rz r ;_
; It will move us up to a million--just under a ,r;$a,;
7 million three. That may even be a tie for first. There's :tJ
, a 8 three very large companies. The fourth place company ' `'
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9 then falls off very rapidly down to about 800,000. We
✓• 10 are a public company. We have two classes of our stock $..,i;
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4 11 traded over the counter.
12 And if you had bought our stock a year and a
.
. 13 half ago you would have multiplied it by about 2,000 percent
'; 14 today. It's a well-financed and well-managed company. ,:,
15 As you nil know, we recently acgtif.red Athena
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", 16 Communications which wan the prior franchise holder here.
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• 17 We do not own it entirely. It in itself is a public
2
w 18 company. We own about 82 percent of its conunon stock
.
19 and 100 percent of its preferred stock today.
20 We in 1980 for the first time consolidated its
21 operations with our own. TCI this year will do in excess
22 of $150 million in volume.
23 Why are we back tonight? I, of course, have
24 been following this closely along with Mr. Farrow who
•
25 chatted just very briefly with you last time. Harold is
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1 our special counsel and handles certain unique mattert� = `'``
2 for us. I've been getting the clippings from the press.
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,'M 3 We've been getting minutes of the various meetings and f
4 a concern has arisen that perhaps there is a major mis- .- .:,vr>:
5 communication, misinformation, and misunderstanding creeping t
into this process.
7 And I think it' s probably nothing new. t think Nif
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8 it's been occurring for some time now. Wily we're hors `
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` j 9 tonight is to talk rather plainly and candidly with you = :'' .
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" 10 concerning the system and the process. We're here because r �F: ',..
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' 11 we want to provide a good service to some 10,000 oubscribers .Tub + ,
. in this city, the vast bulk of the community. :=-x"°
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13 They'r.e in the large part very happy. As I
14 mentioned last time, we sampled 500 homes two weekends ; '"'�''
r sampled
9 15 ago. And in the large part our customers are very happy. o 1
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16 They have not mutinied for forty or fifty channels or :.
17 all sorts of new services that are up high in the sky. t
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18 But, in fact, this is an older system, and we :. :
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4
19 want to provide the city a reasonable approach to what
20 we both desire. Now is the time to reasonably address
21 this issue. We think we know what your desires are and
•
22 we want to let you know what ours are. And we want to
' i. 23 clarify, if we can, what' s obviously some misunderstandings ,
24 that are starting to creep into comments that various
25 people are being quoted as making in the press and some
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;> 1 interesting comments that we read in the minutes of the
last couple of meetings.
3 I'd like to introduce Harold Farrow to you at 17.0 K
4 this point who is our special counsel from Oakland, . :
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5 California. ,
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MR. FARROW2 Thank you. Let me first say that X34:
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'='' 7 that 2,000 increments increase in the value of TCI 4-±1,‘r:
,°'° 8 stock didn't come out of Jefferson fferaon City. As a matter of kt
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Fact, on that particular point it's my understanding and
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4= 10 recollection that in this particular caste the reason why
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z ; 11 there is some approximate $3 million of unrecovered capital
' 12 after ten years in that we've had a combination of two
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13 events. .`:
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lI 14 Number one in that there tend been resistnnce =i
k, 15 to rate inc.reasen. Au a matter of fact, I think in
, '';'.. W 1C, Jefferson City one of the much needed and badly needed rate ,
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17 increaseu was vetoed at the mnyorial level norme
43 18 years ago and there was no override of that veto.
.
19 At the same time that was occurring there were F,.
20 extensive and continuing requests for new investments both
21 to operate and to spread out the service, that is, to
22 serve new areas within the cities no that we have had over
23 a period of now some years the situation where there is
�4 not only a lack of an opportunity to make a reasonable
25 return upon invested capital but there's been an absolute
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I prohibition of the opportunity to recover the capital .,:-:•i::--•
2 its lf, the invested capital, under the term of the agree¢ .
elf,
3 rnent. j
4 Of course, it' s our view that without any ( ;
rf 5 uestion that creates a situation where that under, I
..;`. think, the equity laws of almost any state and certainly
7 under the State of Missouri the company is absolutely ,,4 ,µ,.
8 entitled to operate until they have a chance to not only
9 make a reasonable return, a reasonable profit on its .,,..:,.
`� �TYn ttik.��u;
10 investments, but to recover the investment. .'; u . ,a{Y
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4 11 Now, to start again here, I think as what `.�_',
12 Mr. Alden indicated, there apparently is some misunderstand- . ;.',
13 ing. I certainly was under some bit of a ini.r►nnderst:nnding yy.:.,
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14 when I was here last time. And I think one of the 7- .
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15 questions that was addressed perhaps should have given
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„r''" • 16 inn a bettor clue. ` `
• 17 But even if it' s a clue you never know for
1
18 sure. After all it' s ra ten-man council with a mayor, -
a
.
19 city attorney, and a lot of people so you really don' t
20 know exactly what the position is.
21 It seems to me that there has been some misunder-
22 standing creeping in. You've got the anomaly on the one
23 hand, the company, some number of months ago coming
24 directly to you indicating that the need to make some
25 further investment to increase the services to its existing
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1 twelve-channel subscribers and then being requested by
2 the Council to withdraw the request.
3 At the same time--not at the same time but
4 shortly thereafter, you have the RFP process being put
5 in motion where people are saying, "Well, you haven't '
6, given us enough services." At least you haven't done it
7 voluntarily. Well, it happens that at the same time the
8 company was here talking to you about how to get capital
„
„
1 9 investment into an earth station so new and additional
x 10 services could be given to the twelve-channel subscribers
.
• 11 but also lays the groundwork which along with an already
1
12 budgeted approved electronic rebuild would have provided
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• 13 additional services on tier basis for those who wanted
14 those services on a basis whereby those who ask for the
4,
'� 15 extra services would be paying for the cost of the extra
m 16 services rather than having the whole system, the whole
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17 1O,000-subscr.iber system subsidize investment in plant
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w 18 that wouldn't otherwise be profitable or not used.
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19 So it became clear that there began to be a
20 mix up. And then we thought well, we said the answer is if
21 the city really wants to invite competition in and
22 have two competing companies then let them compete with
23 their services for the trade of the residents.
z4 But since I was here we've read some of the
25 comments in the press and some of the transcripts and I
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1 began to get the feeling that somebody has the understand-
2 ing or the misunderstanding or the belief that somehow or
3 another this company after having these millions of dollars
4 worth of invested rights and invested interests in this
5 thing intends to be--have to be faced the choice of saying, t
6 "Well, either we're going to agree that we will accept
7 the concept of a gag rule, accept the concept of an
8 institutional service and go in their proposal or we're
0
I 9 going to walk away."
: 10 In either event, somebody else is going to be
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• 11 here and there's only going to be one cable system here
7
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12 and it' s not us. That' s when it became important that
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• 13 we came out to see Mr. Graham. That's the reason I've
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14 appreciated this time and I think it was a very constructive
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W 15 meeting because I think perhaps he understood what our
% 16 position was better, we understood your position, and
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17 maybe we've laid the groundwork. _.
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18 And after having that opportunity with him, I
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19 asked him specifically for the opportunity to talk to
20 you tonight so that if you've got questions at least if
21 we have any problems we don' t misunderstand each other,
22 we're not misleading each other.
23 And to set it clear, let's start off with a
24 couple of concepts. Number one, your RFP process as
25 presently designed came out of Dallas. Dallas is a city
1 with I don't know how many people but I've got to believe
2 it's well in excess of a million. There's no system operas{
3 in Dallas. There may never be a system operating in Dal.la;k
4 But that process called for the construction of
5 an institutional system. Now, I don't know if you're
6 conscious of what is exactly meant by that. That's
7 a semi-parallel second cable system which is not installed
8 to serve the home, not installed to provide news, informs :
a tj;t
9 Lion, entertainment. It's installed to compete with the
6 10 telephone company as a common carrier to carry data,
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11 perhaps voice, communications, to nerve banks, institutio ~.Y4
12 hospitals, city hall, government, what-have-you. 5>
It` 13 People are not installing those kinds of system•^ -.
14 in thin situation in direct competition with the telephon* ;;(.
15 company unless they are being forced to. There's some
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16 substantial problems with installing such a system.
f17 First of all, you've really got to wonder wheth-
u 18 or not you will ever have enough business to pray for the
19 system. Second of all, you've got to really wonder wheth
20 or not you'll have the right to provide those services
21 and competition with an established utility regulated by ,
22 the PSC dealing with subject matters like certificates of
23 convenience and necessity from the Public Service Commiss : .',
24 Third, you got to wonder if that happens when
25 it's going to happen and by the time it does happen
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7!::,�i ;:!�ncw�Sa�vlvi '+�tis a k3�.:?;: cdf;�;'`Y aa,c«y.,.a,..�r„rra�v�y. .� ;.4 �.�.s„��17'� ...�tS w:' ;�.ist��.�, ;�:e �;�,,,1�;as�iS. �.�'u:,,�.�?��;.-�c<:..�,..,<,—u,a�... 'a„ a*—�:i� Fbs w.0 :'
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1 whether or not that institutional system being installed ? . '.
2 now won't be obsolete, won't be a bunch of rusty wire.
3 Now, if you do that, if you build that system
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tOt 4 in, the costs have got to go someplace. And that cost is :Gs_
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,.. 5 going to go to the home subscriber, Now, we think it's tn':1t
t
inappropriate. We think it's inappropriate to ask the x"A?,:`
g� s$¢<
7 home subscriber whether he elects for the first year f;' z
;£x i 8 twelve channels or the next year six or the next year, Wy
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;4 9 whatever. We think it's inappropriate to ask him to
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': r 6 10 subsidize somebody's belief that you ought to go into z}. °4
'!.*: z 11 another business that you don't want to go into that's in a
='`° r 12 competition with an established company and which may be ;#`:''`
' 13 iITegal . '1;
` 14 So let's get it--we want to make sure you under- k
>`,." ; 15 stnnd our feelings about the concept of it being required kf,
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16 ns a condition to continue to do business to build tin
17 inntituti.onnl system.
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`' 18 We think it could be a disaster and it's the
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` 19 kind of disaster that only can be paid for by the home `'
20 subscriber and we think that's inappropriate.
21 Too, let's get something straight. We wanted
22 it last year and we've wanted it for some time. But last
23 year there was a specific opportunity to say to you
24 we wanted to deal with you, say we recognize the
(I/ 25 contract is now something over ten years old.
10
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.„, : 4P:;:4,,:f4.°.z�.'+;: `gib 1 r,'�.ei,i'":. ;? a'-o".4,;,-;s-4,.4.-14:t.r—. ,,,w"t:..-S'ccnLiia ,.t,c«,yc — .. :».+1;.:. ;':ny i :i At.-,?z...,7J, Gr,'`• w.n4:�h 4-:,:: ,,.,,:%sr...t "4,4..... , .�x,' .r
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1 And it may be well time to look and see whether 4'•;
2 or not provisions of it need to be amended. And we are
3 perfectly willing to sit down and look at those and the
4 amendments to look at what your problems are, look at
5 what our problems are, see whether or not it' s time to tr.
6 take a look---look at those phrases again to see whether k'"
7 or not there isn' t some appropriate amendments.
• 8 We know and at least we believe that what you're
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seeking is better services and more options of services :•
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) 10 for the home subscribers for your voters, your residents. ''
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-,• 11 We agree with that. We think that can be done.
12 So we were prepaared last year, we rare prepared
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• 13 now, and we will continue to be prepared to sit down
8 14 with you at any time and place and work those problems N.
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m 16 Next, let' s understand something. The concept
1,
17 that we as a company with 10,000 homes here, 10,000 homes ,
2
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w 18 we do business with, 10,000 families, are going to be put
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19 in a position where we cannot advertise to our families,
20 communicate with other customers and tell our own
21 story is not acceptable. There is no way that we will
22 abide by such a rule, not now, not in Jefferson City, and
23 not in any other city of the country.
24 That's a request to abrogate the First Amendment,
25 and 1 don't think even Jefferson City ought to wipe out
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1 the Constitution of the United States. We're not going
2 to do it.
3 Any questions to make it as clear as we can so `,
y.'•.: -' 4 we know where we are.
5 Next, I want you to understand that we intend
6 and believe we have the right to be in business in . -
'' , .:,3 7 Jefferson City from now on, at least for the foreseeable
IP
r future.
P 8 And we expect to be here.
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.` - " 9 Last, let me talk about competition. Like any nT,:
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t 11 wouldn' t like to have the only monopoly in the world. We , ;
12 recognized that it' s not the law of the land, we recognized 1
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13 it inappropriate, we're not going to ask for it, we' re
ii 14 not going to !inggest it.
+: ; 15 If you want to bring in, grant another franchise, < :#
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16 ours in nonexclusive. We've known it from day ono, and
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17 we 've never asked for an exclusive one. And we' re not ' '°
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tr 18 asking for one now and we will not in the future. If
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19 you want to bring in another cable operator, so be it,
20 any time.
21 We believe we can and will compete with anybody.
22 And we intend to do so. By whatever methods you choose
23 to do it, whether you do it by an RFP process or by
24 negotiation process, by whatever, just so long as there
25 is not any blatant discrimination between the two, it's
____ 12
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• 1 fine with us.
2 If competition is what you believe is appropriate .
3 so let' s have it, and we can deal with that. Now, that' s
4 really the message I want to make sure we understood
5 each other.
6 Now, I'm going to close with that message saying
7 that the last thing in the world I wanted to do last
i 8 time I was here, this time, or the next time is to indicate
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9 to you we want to fight, we don' t. We are in the business,
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• 10 in the service business to serve customers and to give
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• 11 them good service. We think we've done it, and we think
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12 we have n lot of happy people out there.
7,'• 13 We know you're concerned for the conduct of
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, 14 that business. We are prepared and want to at any time,
15 any place, and any mechanism you want to develop to sit .
41
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19 services, appropriate levels of services, we are more
20 than pleased to do so.
21 Any questions, I' ll try to answer them.
22 MAYOR HARTSFIELD: Any questions of Mr. Farrow?
23 COUNCILMAN WADE: I have a question.
24 MAYOR HARTSFIELD: Mr. Wade.
25 COUNCILMAN WADE: What kind of improvements or
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1 increases in programs do you plan, Mr. Farrow? I means
2 the last proposition that your company presented to us---
3 was trying to bring in a satellite program. You're talking
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`• 4 about improvements ; is that the only improvement you're
`' 5 going to make?
6 MR. FARROW: No, that's certainly not the only
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7 improvement, that's one. The satellite itself, we're not ¢G
8 going to bring the satellite in. We want to put in our
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own earth station satellite receiver here in Jefferson 1
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12 with the system in Columbia. We're microwaving over two
. 13 channels from Columbia and using them in this system
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14 right now
1 15 Christian Broadcast Network and U.B.O. come in
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16 via that satellite. But because of the microwave problem,
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19 There are presently, perhaps, a half dozen,
20 dozen services available on the satellite, different
21 programming, different kinds. If we have the satellite
22 here so that we can bring in the more wealth of it we
23 then have the opposition to make a choice of those things
24 that are there, those things that our customers want to
25 do. That's the first thing.
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1 Now, the first stage of that thing is that we ,`�
2
have that during certain hours of the day two channels ', ,,,,`
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3 being carried from Kansas City or from St. Louis which ;;'.'
4 absolutely duplicate each other at the same moment, the 1,,
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4 4 8 I mean, you don't need to be looking at I Love
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G 0 10 other channel to be looking at another choice of programmin..
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11 That you can all do within the twelve-channels stuff.
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12 Second of all, there will be another tier of
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W 15 other pragremmtng that can be done. 1
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19 able and we have the channel capacity working, we have
20 the opportunity to develop more of the local origination
21 and the community access program and we fully intend to
22 do that.
23 That involves not the satellite.
24 COUNCILMAN WADE: How long is that going to be
25 before you get all that done?
15 i
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1 MR. FARROW: Well, the satellite could have
it
2 been in by now if it would have been approved. If it was
3 in it would be working and operating. ,
4 The second phase of it involves an electronic
5 rebuild. That had already been budgeted for, approved, .,,,
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`` 6 and was ready to go last fall, The actual time for $;='
r;. . ,, . 7 construction I couldn't give you because I'm not that !:-
: ' . 8 much of a con,truction engineer but whether it's six months fir,
,: I 9 or eight months, whatever it is, it's a lot faster than K
, x 10 anybody else can build another system. -
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11 And nobody could put it in any faster than we r,..
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■1 14 for the services that justifies the expense in such a
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15 manner no that you don' t have the home owner who ren1ly x 5'
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1 16 only wants the first twelve channels—he doesn' t want to ':'
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17 have to pay the capital costs providing a 108 or 36 or
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19 Now, those things are development things, and
20 we are ready to talk about those and were before.
21 COUNCILMAN WADE: But you're going to charge us
22 for the satellite service. That was the request that
23 was made two or three months ago that they would request
24 that.
25 And according to the information that I have,
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1 and I read an article in the T.V. Guide for August 16
2 through the 22 and it was written by Ron Powers. He is
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` 3 a Pulitzer Prize winning critic, and he monitored the ,f:,n.
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5 And he certainly was not impressed with it ,3
} --, 6 because when he turned it on he didn't get any information. i
_ 7 They'd say "here frogs are invading a small town in
q:,i.-',i:i•;i ; 8 California, corning up sports,” and then they shifted,
.:(,:i7 . IN 9 didn' t give any in-depth news or anything of that sort. --
: U 10 MR. FARROW: I'm familiar with the article that
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': 11 you spoke about. First of all, what he is talking about :!
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12 is a service call.e_d CNN, Cable News Network.
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(. 13 COUNCILMAN WADE': That' s what we were told you ,st
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1 14 were going to 113C. . £:
15 MR. FARROW: Pardon me. that is a single service r'
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16 out of dozens off the satellite or perhaps a dozen, a ' `
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17 single service is one news network out of Atlanta, Georgia
2
i 18 run by Ted Turner. And this gentleman, Mr. Powers, is a
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19 critic.
20 That critic doesn' t like Mr. Ted Turner' s news.
21 He apparently likes NBC' s news. Some people agree with
22 him, some people don' t. Out of our 10,000 homes, some
23 might agree and some might not.
24 But if we listen to Mr. Powers who says, "I don' t
25 like Ted Turner so nobody can see him," that' s not so. So
- _ - 17
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1 we're only dealing with one potential service.
2 The rate increase we were asking for was forty-
3 five cents in connection with that satellite. That is
4 only one of the programs that would have been available to
5 bring in if we had been allowed to do that. And that's
6 only dealing with a twelve-channel service.
7 COUNCILMAN WADE: That' s what we were told you
8 were going to do was to bring in CNN.
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9 MR. FARROW: I would think that is--what we
Z 10 would hope to do--because while Mr. Powers may like that,
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• 11 I've had the opportunity to see it a couple times and I
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12 find it to be one of the most stimulating news programs
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18 MR. ALDEN: Mr. Wade, I read your comments when
19 you read from that article. Let me help Harold in this,
20 also.
21 Ted Turner today has seven million subscribers
22 to Cable News Network. It' s one of the most acclaimed
23 services that has come along the pike in years. It wasn't
24 projected to break even for another two years. It will
25 break even this June.
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You've got to understand that there has been
2 and always will be a controversy between the broadcast
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` There are currently sixteen services on the .
satellite. We would propose if we can get an addition
8
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to this town to bring in those additional sixteen services.
j 9 Some of those ere premium services; that means they are
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15 But we are not just talking about one single
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7 17 it was mentioned as one of several services.
2 18 MR. FARROW: Or as an example.
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19 MR. ALDEN: There are sixteen services up there •
20 right now. •
21 MR. FARROW: Any other questiona7
22 MR. ALDEN: And by the way, there's no additional
23 charge.
24 COUNCILMAN WADE: Re was talking about taking
25 off Kansas City and St. Louis stations that had repetitive
___ 19
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1 programs and bringing in this whatever satellite service
2 you're going to use.
3 MR. FARROW: Yes, sir, but please understand,
4 if I may--please, if I may, we're talking about between
5 six and seven o'clock in the evening. Both stations are
6 running the same program. For that one hour's time you
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7 eliminate one of the stations, only for that one hour's ::
8 time. You don't take it off forever.
9 The only way you'd lose--the only way I could x'''•
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10 think of that you could ever lose that old station, that
11 old signal, was if there were no cable service at all in
I
12 Jefferson City for any period of time and then you started
d; Y 13 over again you might lose the grandfather rights that
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6 14 this sy;item has to carry them at all.
3 15 But that' s not the topic we're dealing with,
i• 16 We're only talking about for that moment in time, that
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• 17 half hour, that hour, when a program is exactly duplicated.
2
W 18 MAYOR UARTSFIELD: Mr. fequembourg. a
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4
19 COUNCILMAN IIEQUEMBOURC: But that is under an
20 old proposal.
21 COUNCILMAN WADE: That's right. That's the one
22 that they brought up in October or November.
23 MR. ALDEN: Well, again that's where we think
24 some of the miscommunication occurred because there
25 was another step, the converter service was the next step
20
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1 to that. And that's why I said at the beginning we think
2 there' s perhaps been a miscommunication here. We really
3 do.
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4 MAYOR HARTSFIELD: Mr. Hequembourg.
5 COUNCILMAN HEQUEMBOURG: I've just got one
6 question. It regards the fact of the nonexclusive franchise
7 and whether or not you would or wouldn't operate if another
8 franchise were awarded in Jefferson City. i>
i 9 You made the statement which you all would plan '=
6 10 on continuing in business regardless of whether another
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11 franchise is awarded. Do you recognize that even if you tv
12 stayed in business that you would be regulated still under
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u 14 would still be under the regulation of the City Council
x 15 and your rates would have to be determined based on the
16 services provided?
17 MR. FARROW: Let me say first of all that the y!'
x
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19 contract. It's the company' s policy and plans and intention
20 to abide by the terms of that agreement.
21 We recognize the appropriateness of certain
22 kinds of regulations without any question by the local
23 level, some by the state level, and obviously we have a
24 substantial number by the federal level. We certainly
25 recognize the question the fact there would be.
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1 When you get into the exact form of the regulation
2 I would rather have an opportunity to discuss that with
3 Chris Graham rather than, you know, get too general about i`'
4 it because the field is somewhat fluid and there' s some q'<,:�
substantial discussion going on as to what kind, where, -{
and what-have-you.
7 But the fact of there's no question of we p
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8 certainly accept that. v.:._
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i 9 MAYOR UARTSFICLD: Any other questions? u'>
x 10 Mr. Whitecotton.
11 COUNCII.1•1AN Y IxTrCO'.['1'ON: Have you had any problem ^-lj
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12 with these homemade television stations, satellites
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14 MR. FARROW: I don' t know the answer here in I ,2::
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1 15 Jefferson City. Certainly the industry a:; a whole is -
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16 having there. And in other placer; where I'm doing some
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e 17 work we're having very substantial problems with them.
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w 18 I haven' t heard since I 've been involved with
19 Jefferson City as to whether or not that' s been a major
20 problem here.
21 COUNCILMAN WHITECOTTON: In accordance with the
22 statement I have here they seem to be doing right well
23 for themselves and for their friends it various communities.
24 MR. FARROW: Oh, there's an outfit out in
25 California that calls itself the Pirates TV Company and
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1 it's just selling those things all over.
2 There's also, as I understand, an investigation " `
3 going out of the AG's office and there may be some
4 indictments but that's another problem. That's in .-,-}
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N 5 California.
6 COUNCILMAN WHIT.ECOTTON: There in one that
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7 involved the Moscow Olympics on homemade televioion. . , `
8 MR. ALDEN: The problem you have got with those ; r=
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9 dishes at the moment--we are the largest distributor in :f.:,. ;'.'
`� 67 10 the nation of the backyard dishes. -: v=V:
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11 As it happens, we have an exclusive in seventeen
t 12 states including Missouri. But now there's all sorts of
' 4 13 pirates. There's copyright problems. We have no problem ''1_,`- ;
u 14 with those dishes; going in the backyard. ,.I
15 The one who has the problems with it is (A) the 5w,'
ff 16 program suppliers who have that material copyrighted and ;ar
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x 17 (B) the FCC becnu.;e the homeowner then, the homeowner,
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'':; Q 18 the recipient of the program is now the one in violation.
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19 This is a controversy that's raging in the courts right
20 now.
21 MR. FARROW: To make sure Mr. Alden's statements
22 are clear--
23 COUNCILMAN WUITECOTTON: Well, in this article
�4 it seemed they turned on and get signals from all over
25 the country, all over the world.
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1 everyone else. One day it's great, the next it's horrible. ;'
2 We have dealt with the problem of watching a
3 match, tennis match or whatever, and it will be cut off z„ ;
4 because of the problem of we are coming through part of i.
P g $ p ���,
r.
` 5 it through Columbia. r, ;
= 6 Now, it seems to me that even if you did not -
? want to increase the number of stations, if you simply
.7
8
wanted to upgrade the quality of your picture and your_
4 ..P
9 service and no more expensive than the satellite disks JNNNN4F,,
N , 0 10 arc, that you could have purchased these on your own ”
11 without asking for a rate increase to simply upgrade the ,Oj:s
„
12 quality of your system prior to worrying now and coming ` ' '
m 13 to us all of a sudden now that you see we're opening thin ,_°
n •
14 4 a
r t, up for bidding. k`
r S: 15
And all of n sudden we're getting promises of '.Y
7 W
• k!
r',. • 16 call. kinds of t.1►ing: . Why couldn' t you have done this
r
f 17 without upgrading the number of channels
< pg g just for upgrading
s
2 18 your own quality prior to this?
G
Xg
MR. FARROW: The answer to your question, of
20 course, obviously we could have. And if you'd go back in
•
21 history seven years or so, we're all aware of the fact
22 that this franchise was not let to TCI. It' s only, I
23 believes, been since about '78 that TCI has had total
24 control of the situation.
25 With respect to the earth station about putting
-- ----- _. - - __ -- 25 — __
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rF
1 that investment in, long before we knew anything about
2 any RFP process, we came to you. After having been denied
F :;' 3 rate increases and having been vetoed in a situation a` �
4 where you're not making a reasonable return on an existing
5 investment, you say to the City Council, "We need a rate #1.
j: 6 increase because of inflation and we know we're going to 'r
`_ 7 have to be spending more money, we'd like your approval." -..- ,
-. ' a 8 I think, in effect, we did come to you and did ',
N
I 9 try to make attempts. When it's turned down, when we
10 have this response saying "Well, not now, we will talk dry
' _ t 11 about it later on, " we assumed that we would hear from
F 12 you and that you had some specific proposal. So we went
' -'' a 13 about our buniness of planning for the electronic rebuild ��;
.
' „ 14 as we 11 as for. that and then we hoard about the RFP.P.
7
15 Now, maybe that's the miscommunication, but that
MI
16 was the company' s perception of the problem. They were
. 17 surprised when you said, "We're not interested in a channel
W
2 18 and more signals in."
19 But, you know, they went ahead with the problem `
20 of designing for and planning the increase in electronic
21 rebuilding now. And in the middle of that thing, then
' 22 they find out about an RFP process and they say, "Well,
23 what's that mean?"
24 Now, perhaps it's just a misunderstanding, but
25 I think that that' s what happened. And 1 guess a further
:' is` �L�.,e :CS*• 31 z.:' .. r t.;r:.,,.c.:T�a�'tt' ,+r•',.. ":f� 4 r .�. .«.�.Ci. 'f t.Y .i.K ,:w.'{' s � .��<y:'.r •r3tti a,,,d, .t,
��: 3 �?' £as ,.�.F s_ tie �,.'"'�'x$'� ``+a � ^��Sa + �.. . e,a. `-^#:R;z;_ 7a..� r
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S 2x
tZ Y4i' 't
1 answer might be is that what you're saying to a company
2 at a time when the City Council which controls your rates
3 says, "You can' t have a rate increase, why don't you go . Kx
4 out and spend more money anyhow," sometimes that's hard xN'
°s
5 to sell to a bank or to a controller or to the president „ ,
+_� 6 of the company. °,
a
'; 7 MAYOR HARTSFIELD: Dr. Brant.
' ` R 8 COUNCILMAN BRANT: We have complained throughout l'''
,. , 9 the years and since your people took and bought over the ,`
#' ” 10 prior. cable company about two things in particular. .,. , .
t 11 Number one, the poor quality of the pictures ` ' .,
K 12 and insistence of quality and secondly, about hookup ;a' ';
. 13 problems. n,.
IS 14 Now, I will grant you that they did get on that
,r,
,,,,; ., 15 finally after we brought it to a head and threatened atoned them
tl
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0 16 with it that they did upgrade it and I believe most of
f 17 the hookups have been made to our satisfaction. The ' ¢?
) n
W 18 quality is no better, in my opinion, than it was three :.«. .:
to
19 years ago.
20 Now, the cost of those disks--and I've read
21 articles on them-- the cost is minute compared to the
22 investment you have here. You could have, gentlemen,
23 done that and cleared up a lot of problems of cut-off
24 programs and quality of the pictures, and everything else
25 and that would have made the City Council more open to
_ ---_ _____ - 27 �_
"'"� ^r iR,la! y� �.nKigii s ?: .,: ';. s s {, ,,, ... ...s• > to .,1
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`a# .�k-£�cty ax.�"",+R,�. �.rya. c.�r``z'��::�a'. ..as.*va.+�..�'�.:r... ..is. +'t�k z�rp..8Ur�...i..:- s�„or":. _ .es..r'��erG- , .,�s4�'`a��a �
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1 rate increases. ..,,..
2 When we have people calling us complaining about ..,
, 1 aS; ay S.'
$:i 3 quality, calling us about they can't get hookups and t ; :
z t 4 then you walk up here in the past wanting rate increases, ;
%ip. 7th
}M that creates problems. ::.;',:i.1!.
i n NW
.°y . 6 Now we did ive ou a rate increase last time
42ir ,, 7 you were up here because you were justified because of
8 time and inflation. And we did go along with that even 8:�`'
v Y$.,;. M (^..LIi
.v:
4Y-,; thoughts--and also because you did live up to your part on ;..
rxa
k
10 hookups. ;
11 But the quality still is not good enough. !.
12 tit. ALDEN. Dr. Brant, the--
; t} .. :1";,,1 < 13 MR. FARROW: Can I answer one question first 'SST
i; , Z.
14 of all. X think once again we've got an example of the ''sa''
g J G
} w 15 kind of misinformation we' re_ Lai king about. Disks the
fa
E y' We're talking
+:+ 16 f'.x )t'n�i.VC; but they' re not that expensive. • '
! j t;
{; 17 about earth station receivers, all right.
.a, 2
a 18 The problem you' re talking about is you're
19 talking about in the signals with the fade in them
20 particularly when it rains. You get to losing a little
21 bit of the color, you get some fuzziness. Sometimes you
22 lose a signal altogether.
23 Those are microwave feeds from Kansas City or
24 St. Louis. That' s the only way to get those signals.
25 There's almost $2 million invested just to get those
". d .,2,A i 1 ..«. v,fib ti7ar} " ..mfs:4 aai y.i� ." ie;k E w aa t�v?"`` ..kx t v it z t`v? ,it :t ;.,i-w Yf `�`<r
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-'.
1 microwave signals in there. Those don't feed up to the
2 satellite.
3 If you didn't put the microwave in, there would
4 be no way to get them over except bring them over in a
5 bushel basket. There's just no other physical, way to do
6 it. . .
7 So that the fade and the microwave problem `tt ,
8 you're describing is not one that could be solved with
I
9 any number of earth stations. The only way you can solve .
z• 10 it that way would be you would have to go to each of those
is V i 11 stations and get them to feed the thing up to the satellite t'..!
2
7 i . y"34
12 and be able to pick it up off of it. f',
. 13 So it ' s an area once again where perhaps we've
14 had the discussions. It' s good we had it because we are }
r
W 15 dealing with a misunderstanding of the two functions.
n
w
W• 16 MR. ALDEN: Let's talk about the picture quality
r
{ 17 for a minute. What Harold is saying is absolutely
4
u
`W 18 correct. With an earth station, you have a total different
a
w
19 situation than you have with the microwave feed. That
20 microwave feed is not going to change whether it' s us or
21 any other operator.
22 As a matter of fact, no other operator is going
23 to install. We own that microwave feed. We own that
24 whole microwave route. No other operator is going to
25 bring in Kansas City or St. Louis because they can't
— 29
i
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4
Z
Vin ,.1 1� i.*i'
' !- . 1 afford to invest the $2 million to build it. We have
2
that spread over four systems. Nobody can come in here
:.,..; 3 and build a system and afford to do that. $-..L-,
Y , -
Y'.
tiyx =yh Now, the electronic rebuild that Harold talked ;
a'ibi. ,. A,
£ *. ! 5 about earlier which was budgeted and approved before we -'
.2. . ..44;1,.,, ..
,M knew anything about your RFP process will upgrade the t
:41,1'.
} r amplifiers and electronics and the head end and take care
o
8 e remanng pcure quaties. o,%
.,,.:; 9 Now, the earth station will bring in very, , r:_
i? l)
r: 10 very sharp and clear but it's not the same channels
v
x = ,' 11 you're talking about now. It's totally different channels.
., y, :.-4',4:.. ; 12 COUNCI1 MAN BRANT: All right. That' s a lack
k ;' t K 13 of technical knowledge on my part. But I can still look .
• .
5 I1
,1 14 at my TV. I can tell the difference between a good
15 quality and a poor quality picture.
N1
t,
W
u f6 And when one night that channel is great, the •,
»n;. ; ' 17 next night when it' s not raining, snowing, or anything
W
w 18 else and it's horrible and when I'm watching a program
a
tap,` ... m
19 that gets knocked off because some other program clicks
20 on from Columbia, it irritates me, too.
21 MR. ALDEN: Well, the electronic rebuild will
22 take care of that, number one. Number two, on the cutoffs,
23 there have been some problems with that. The new head
, 24 end would include an electronic switcher. That will
25 totally eliminate that sort of a problem.
--- — -- – – 30
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Ore: P'
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1 COUNCILMAN BRANT: Why do we have to wait, ;,,
ti
a:
i` 2 though, until three months or two months before we open :�'��'
%sue :yk' ry
. .P
' 3 this thing for bids and are in the process of bidding do }
4 we all of a sudden get the top brass in here and all of a = "
le***'• ;fix'`'
sudden all kinds of new things we want to do, my Lord, ;... A r
ell ,,,,,,44,
z 6 MR. ALDEN: Well, these aren't new things, '�
:, ,,',,-.:0 7 Dr„ Brant. These are the things that the people tried to
8 talk to the Council about before we knew anything about
s 9 the RFP process, and that 's a fact. }
r:
` ;k 10 COUNCILMAN BRANT: I must be deaf then because uT'
: I've been sitting here seven years.
.',.!4,!:';''F,{ 12 COUNCILMAN [1EQUEtili0iJRG: Well, I'll take an
, A 13 exception to that, also. At one of the previous meetings
'
`. ,,. w 14 specifically the subject of another band and it top set
15 converter was raised and that was one of they reasons why
s s 4 4, 16 the props nl, for the rate increase wan withdrawn because
17 the opposition was to elimination of a lot of programs
t r
2 18 that were not duplications but were carried by a specific
IT
19 program or a station such as St. Louis Cardinal bri sebtrll,
20 Royals baseball, and some other programming, the local
. 21 news, six o'clock news, that people happened to like a •
22 particular news station.
3,
23 And some compromise efforts were made at the time
24 in that some sports programming were promised that those ,
•
25
_ -------- - — 31 — ----
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• ��..9YY
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1 stations would continue or that you would continue to
2 pick up those items.
3 However, at that time we were told that you--and .
4 I'm speaking of the representatives who made the statements
5 that you all were not aware of whether this system could
` 6 handle a top set converter and whether that could even be F,
7 made available in Jefferson City without a substantial
8 addition to the system. 1,.
o xt
i 9 And f'iat's one of the reasons why we made the ''t
" 10 decision to go ahead with the RFP's and look at new
E
, 11 proposals because it was indicated to us that your equip-
12 ment might not be able to handle that so there was a lot
13 of miscommunication and a lot of misunderstandings.
u 14 MR. FARROW: That's too bad.
15 COUNCILMAN IIIQUEMIOURG: We looked for a more
16 modern system than what we were looking for. ,
n
x 17 MR. FARROW: It's too bad. And the unfortunate
2
e 18 thing is we have this thing. The answer is there is
a
a,
19 something we can do about it. There is something we will
20 do about it.
21 In the meantime, we tell you again that if
22 somebody else wants to come in and get a franchise, God
23 bless them.
24 COUNCILMAN HEQUEMBOURG: Well, if you all have
25 the capabilities and you have the investment in the
-_ 32
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rv,:'1'"r 1 community that you say you do and it won' t be difficult .`'K
2 or it would be impossible for someone else to compete, .q
,.Jr>t
tNWrc
3 then when the RFP' s come in, you know, I can assure you that
F -:
_ .} 4 I think the entire Council is going to look at your
.: -x- 5 proposal just as sincerely or more so because we'd like
' 4' 6 to keep you in the community as anybody else' s.
•`,s#, r°= 7 MR. FARROW: I quarrel with Mr. Alden in one
''..;;: 8 respect. I don't think it' s impossible for somebody else 1::v,
jam;:' i. ~
z i 9 to do it. Another company might if they want to go back r -
10 and look at the early years of investment here without ; ‘
.-,t ,' w 11 any return and with direct losses in the many years of
s 12 investment without adequate return and they're willing
R ;v
. 13 to take on that thing and they've really got some faith '-`
{
14 in the business like we do, then do it. :;.'
'gip,
u 15 And if they want to try, it' s wonderful. That's
U
41
16 C.K. with us. But we will be here too. And we will be
I
17 competing for the ranme customers and we think we are
W
18 going to give them the best service.
19 MAYOR HARtf5FIELD: Mr. Prenger.
•
20 MR. FARROW: Even you. •
21 COUNCILMAN PRENGER: You have mentioned earlier
22 that you had not--were not receiving an adequate return
23 on your investment. You made some general references to
�4 equity laws of Missouri, and so on, and so forth. I
25 think the implication was that you did not have the
.: �»-^5 ;, . .:.H.. ..y.'i�..t�°" . fi�ti i}:44�: '�nyq. 3 F q � .�y k�r�r�y`:!. � 'i�. it 'l, L''°+T-�� `1Y.' ';¢'f �'��r i •r, °:: . _ .. },3,,�S` ,4t.';10;1. 4 .U.; •,., b;£ad.'.'.t� '4MM t t .*, ..',,: " *�A.4 ' i p ''" t .e;.-;.*••..::rich.'?2t7:Y" ti,,-.kF� ..r ,.,� �.. W; � iL c ftior tr,..3 '?4' a e, S 3 '' y {weta f-`a f , . `s . , ".t i^ ,; °E,'i ='n•-- rN. , 1fl,'.*o.", i`' '? �t x:",:; z 'c 'L )x tw ti 'Z*`-". ' i a �k" 4' ` 2-z... s 4`"Y
'e .s ,..n y3. .s _-t�.sYi ;Y�'.:....«........c.:..;:s:..^S,:` ...:.6„...,... .,:_`..'.a;s..S. ..xf',._. ,.`�,._.,.... *''� =z:_._:.cn._sc.�a::_.......z..,..,._..,.-.�t.,_+...r.:'A:*.:..:.�:.. x S
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,'" 1 opportunity to make a reasonable return on that investment
2 or weren't provided with the opportunity. Is that--also, .7i'
w,
3 did you acquire the company in '78? 79 °
A;E 4 MR. FARROW: Ye
T tR
:4;,--,;.,:,
5 COUNCILMAN PRENGER: From the predecessor I
r '', 6 company? Are you basing your lack of return on what the a°
>...::: Y g Yy
t :
*GT'
7 original company invested here or what you bought-- or
R='' r, 8 MR. FARROW: Oh, both. 1t:
to-T ii tg'y k
:' i 9 COUNCILMAN PRENGER: --the original company?
y`ip:;, 10 MR. FARROW: Both the successor and the company. ,::.
'z 11 COUNCILMAN PRENGER: We have no control---Council :.• :':
-I N 12 wan not involved in what you paid for the predecessor k'
x tj 13 company. Your return on that investment is not related ;'
�,d 0 14 to our responnibili.tie�s or actions at all . �
r:',. '1:
r
15 MR. FARROW: I think we' re dipping into the :r .'
44 ;T3•
O
IA Y.
t 16 fine points of the law. I would suggest to you that an < _
17 a :successor in interest we acquired whatever rights there `'
1
U 18 were. Further, we have made very many substantial invest- ;7_44
It
19 meats on our own of equipment that can' t be amortized or
20 depreciated over less than fifteen years.
21 For example, the Ten Mile Area, I think that
22 within the last year it probably cost approximately
23 $100,000 on new investments put in and perhaps more,
•
24 That' s just something I saw in some of the notes.
25 And I don' t know how to answer other than that. When you
____ 34
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fed"
1 really get down to a fine tuning of those things, that's
2 the kind of discussion that ordinarily goes on with a
3 competent consultant who' s got some familiarity with the
s•
,
4 concepts of rate making.
COUNCILMAN HEQUEMBOURG: I'd like to ask one =_;
6 other question.
7 You say you made this investment. Did you not:
8 make this investment knowing that your franchise would
p
I
9 expire in 1981?
• y
- r 10 MR. FARROW: You know, let me say it to be very ,`
11 exact with you. We knew the exact terms of agreement
I
r 12 which included all dates reflected on the agreement.
a 13 We also knew the law. We also knew the facts.
14 We also know that capital investment had been put in and
ty
7
f 15 by action or inaction of the city the opportunity to
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w 16 return on it and the opportunity to get it back had been
4
17 prevented.
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u 18 We knew that the lairs of equity existed. We
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19 knew what our intention was and we assume reasonableness
20 on all parties aside.
21 Now, that's about as good an answer that I can
22 give you. We still assume the reasonableness.
E_.
23 MR. ALDEN: And I 'm nest sure you would have let us
24 do anything else.
25 COUNCILMAN HEQUEMBOURG: When you made the
35
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. 1 investment in 1978, did you not know the past history of
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2 this community and the Council' s action toward that
3 franchise before you invested your money in that franchise?
4 MR. FARROW: I think we knew some of the history,
5 yes, sir.
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6 MAYOR HARTSFIELD: Mr. Crader.
7 COUNCILMAN CRADER: Yes. I have a question
z.
; r 8 regarding if you are not granted the franchise and you d
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9 say you invested this extra money and you don' t get the
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J'` z 10 franchise, would it be a possibility that you would go to ":
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11 court and have the rates raised to get your money returned f°'x
12 if you' re still operating if we do give the franchise to
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. 13 someone else?
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V, 14 MR. FARROW: I hesitate to talk litigation in
7
;'` y 15 the Council chambers. I really do.
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a 16 In the first place, no matter what I say I'll
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17 sound like I'm challenging somebody and I'll try not to
3
° 18 do that.
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19 COUNCILMAN CRADER: Is it your legal right to
20 do that? X know that. I just asked that question. Is
21 that not your---could you not possibly do that if the Council
22 does not--
23 MR. FARROW: Certainly. As a matter of fact, if
24 we get to the real issue of the question, there's some of
25 us in this world who believe that rate control over
____.__ _ - 36
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,, a= :,>, 1 First Amendment provision is an inappropriate form of
2 contract provision or regulation. But we're not bringing
:: '4 3 that issue up to you now, and we haven't challenged that
s> 4 provision in the old agreement.
{
.'?:,:,";q. 5 But there is a very substantial question there, ==
ri 6 and who knows what might happen. And I'm trying not to i
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7 deal with issues that are ghost issues or strawman issues.
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4;. ; _ r i 8 I'm trying to say to you we want to give more services
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r 9 We're prepared to talk to you about it. We understand you
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. 6 Xp want more services end you want us to change the contract. r
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K 11 We're prepared to talk about that. That's the message I
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. 4l ~,' : 12 want to make sure you understand.
r Y q 13 MAYOR I{ARTSFIELD* An other uestions?
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14 MR. FARROW: Let me ask one last thing. With :,4,
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15 respect to the proposal dates, we have not been able to
n 16 come to a conclusion as to whether or not we would submit ,
of
17 a document to you on the 25th. We gave a very long list .'
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18 of questions to Mr. Graham. We think the kinds of
,
19 questions are there and the kinds of answers we'll gat
20 to them will certainly affect our judgment on how we can
21 proceed.
22 And I'll make it very clear to you we would not
23 proceed if in order to proceed we had to make contractual
24 commitments to you that gave up our First Amendment
25 rights to advertise or to speak to our customers. We just
37 - ---
• •
1 couldn't do that.
2 All right. We would have a very difficult time
3 saying that we have--in order to make a proposal on the
4 25th of February, we would have to agree to build an
5 institutional system when we believe it would be the
6 biggest boondoggle you could possibly do and would create
7 a necessity for a subsidiary from the home subscribers
8 for services not--so we have very difficult problems to
0
9 answer ourselves if that's the process that we have to do.
x 10 And we're going to wait until we get the answers
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ii from the city. We will make a decision at that time.
t 12 COUNCILMAN WHITFCOrrONc I have a question.
13 MAYOR HARTSFIELD: Mr. Whitecotton.
u 14 COUNCILMAN WIIITECOT"TON: Would you describe
w 15 your corporate structure, please?
0 16 MR. ALDEN: Yes. TCI Cablevinion is a wholly
0
{ 17 owned subsidiary of TCI. We own the company 100 percent.
2
W 18 COUNCILMAN WHITFCOTFON: Did you have any
19 relations in that regard with your predecessor?
20 MR. ALDEN: Yes, to Athena?
21 COUNCILMAN WHITFCOTrON; Yes.
22 MR. FARROW: My understanding is that prior to
23 the most recent acquisition that TCI bought into the
24 stock of Athena which itself was a public company. It
25 held at one time, as you recall, some 15 or 20 percent of
38
;'`s
1 the stock of Athena and as a result of that arrangement
2 at one time it had a management agreement with them and
3 then made some arrangements to purchase the system from
4 Athena when Athena didn't have the money to properly
5 operate bills and approve them. :' t
6 MR. ALDEN: We've had to operate Athena over
7 the years at a total arm's length distance because there
8 are minority shareholders out there in the public and
0
i 9 they have certain rights under the law. The agreement with
1
2 10 Gulf and Western when we purchased Athena allowed for us to
O
• ii acquire ongoing percentages of the stock to where today we
12 own just in excess of 80 percent and are now beginning to
.
13 acquire the system. There are other Athena systems we do no,
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u 14 own yet that we're still in the process of acquiring.
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2, 15 COUNCILMAN UUITECOTTONx It seems to me that
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• 16 during the period that we've been dealing with you and
• 17 your predecessor that these problems always came down
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9 18 to the little manager here in Jefferson City who could do
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19 nothing about it. All we got from the •uppeL echelon was
20 promises, promises, and promises.
21 MR. FARROW: I know that--perhaps this is
22 perception- -without, you know, going back to specific
23 dates and looking at specific correspondence and specific
24 things it is difficult to answer,
25 But I suggest to you sometimes perception runs
39
1 j 1
1 both ways, that the company has a perception every so
• 2 often and all we get is a promise that some day they're
3 going to give us a rate increase.
4 And when there's limited capital funds as there
S were in the whole cable industry in the early 70's when
-= 6 there are limited capital funds to upgrade and to extend
7 and improve those systems which were returning a reasonable
8 investment--(Blank in tape)--those that were rate increases
M
9 were not possible.
Z 10 Now, that may have been part of the source of
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• 11 the problem. I don' t really know. But it could well have
.
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t12 been the source of the problem back when this was Athena's
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a13 system because I know from some other experiences I've had
u 14 that there were very severe capital problems within the
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15 Athena system.
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t 16 But X can' t answer you specifically without
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W 18 COUNCILMAN WHITECOTTON: I think neither you nor
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19 your predecessor would ever have had a problem with the
20 City of Jefferson insofar as rates are concerned if we
21 could have ever gotten anything done that was promised.
22 MR. FARROW: It's too bad that•we have that .
23 perception.
24 COUNCILMAN WHITECOTTON; And you're standing
25 here now making more promises and it's difficult for me to
swallow it 100 percent.
40
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1 MR. ALDEN: Chris asked that question this
2 afternoon. How would we propose to A so to a eak
► guarantee
,; 3 the promises we make.
4 Mr. Farrow' s answer was there are mechanics to
5 do those things and we would be willing to enter into
whatever the mechanics needed to be to do that.
N
7 MR. FARROW: I was about to say we'd had that
• 8 ;
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discussion because Mr. Graham brought the very thing up
i
I 9 and I said you and I both know that there are ways to
A 10 work out--:mechanical ways to enforce promises.
11 But let me correct you now, I'm not here making
i
w 12 promises. I'm here trying to say to state what I believe
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a to be misunderstandings and trying to state our position
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�� 14 to you. We're not making promises. We' re making state--
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m(`_nt:s to you. We're inviting you to sit down and have
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w 16 negotiations wherc there
will be promises both ways and
x 17 arrangements both ways and then Mr. Graham and I will have
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2 I8 the problem of working out the mechanics, how to insure
19 those problems are done. •
20 COUNCILMAN WHITECOTTON: Well, I hope you can
21 do that and I think that's the only way to have done it.
22 And I think if this whole thing had been handled
23 in that manner in the past we wouldn't have this problem
24 today.
25 MR. ALDEN: Could we perhaps--let's make a
_ �__. 41
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1 specific request. We did not do this the last time and
2 hopefully we--February 25 is coming up rather rapidly.
3 We have not made a decision.
4 Much of it will hinge on the answers to the
5 questions that you've got in front of you as to whether -*
6 we will put in a proposal. We have not made that decision.
7 There' s a good chance we won' t, 3.
8 On the other hand, there's also the opportunity
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9 in that period or in some extended period should you
z 10 deem that advisable for us to sit down with the city in 1=.
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t 11 good faith and exercise the talents that you all have and
a ; 12 that we have to try to come up with ;something that's ''
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13 reasonable that will protect the 10,000 people out there
„ 14 who are the ones who will wind up suffering for a long :f
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15 period of time when that system gets turned off.
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w 16 So I think that there' s a point that we might
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r 17 say would you consider extending that date--1'm not saying
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w 18 cancel it--move the date and let' s sit down and find out
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19 what you want and let's sit down and find out what we can
20 and are willing to do and what mechanics are necessary to
21 see to it that it gets done.
22 MAYOR UARTSFIELDZ Let me see -we've been on
23 this about forty- five, fifty minutes, see if we can bring
24 this to a conclusion. I'd like to state first that the
25 comments I make are my own and I don' t speak for the ....,f
42
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1 Council but I'm speaking to all parties, I guess, at
2 this point because eventually it' s going to come to me
3 for a signature.
4 Number one, I think the people in the city look
5 to the city for regulation of cable television, very >;,
6 definitely. In this state there is no state regulation `
a
7 that I can discern. Number two, they look upon '.
8 cable television as one of the tangible benefits of
9 living within the corporate limits of the city, right y-
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Z 10 or wrong?
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11 O.K. The major dominant complaint over the years
1
12 and is still today is from people who do not have the >>
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a13 service and cannot get it, whether they' re within the
L; 14 500 feet which was the major problem but even if they're 4`
15 without the 500 feet limitation they still expect to be
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> 16 able to get it.
9
X 17 By franchise, you don' t have to provide it if
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2 18 they're beyond the 500 feet from facility. Personally .
19 I don' t care who serves the city. I don't have any
20 feelings about TCI or one of the others or whatever.
21 We do have an obligation. It' s a serious situation. I
22 want us to be able in the near future to say universally
23 if you live within the city you have a right to have
24 access to cable television.
25 I think that's what the people expect. I think
—— 43
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1 the rates need to be kept within control. If whatever
2 happens from the RFP's--but if it has a dramatic impact
3 on rates, I'm not going to sign it.
4 Obviously, if you ask for more services it's
5 going to cost more. But there has to be a balancing
6 between all the ultimate possibilities and service and
7 the affordability of some service. I'm not a lawyer or a
8 TV watcher either so I don't think I'm prejudiced, but
x 9 I'm just trying to listen to what the population is saying.
2
10 There are a lot of people on fixed incomes.
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4 11 There are a lot of people in this town on modest incomes.
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12 I'm not interested in a service that caters to 50 percent
13 of the population. 50 percent can afford it, 50 percent
u 14 can't.
x 15
So there is a definite need to balance those
16 things in the ultimate decision so that's my position.
d
17
Dr. Brant.
4
3
w 18 COUNCILMAN BRANT: A couple questions. Again,
19 it seems from my standpoint that if we open this up for
20 bids--then, of course, this is for Chris to determine
21 later, I guess, that if we open this up for bids that it's
22 not fair for the existing company not to bid on it.
Z3 It seems like all interested parties should bid
24 first of all. Number two, it seems to me that we're asking
25 for a certain number of channels--35, I believe it was--
�__ 44
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1 so that we can compare apples and apples when these
2 companies start'-.-you have to have some specs for the •
3 companies bidding.
4 It seems to me thirdly that whoever we select
5 we could then with negotiations downgrade and change
6 the system. If we don' t have to go exactly on the bidding,
? you can downgrade it to alternate proposals with whoever
8 we choose. And this is my feeling anyway as what we
• h
9 were trying to do.
•
III = 10 N But we were simply setting certain specs for
h• 11 advertising so we could see how all companies compared
12 on what they offer us.
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13
O Am I wrong in some of these assumptions?
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la MAYOR IIAItTSFIELD: Chris, you can answer that.
w 15 MR. GRAHAM: t don' t think so. I think that's
a
• 16 a fair analysis.
17 COUNCILMAN BRANT: So what the company is saying
18
a is tieing them down to a proposal--
m
19 MR. GRAHAM: We can reject all this, too.
20 COUNCILMAN BRANT: Pardon?
21 MR. GRAHAM: We can reject all the bids, too.
22 We reserve that right.
23 COUNCILMAN BRANT: That' s right.
24 MR. GRAHAM: It's clear in the solicitation and
25 the advertisements.
45
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1 COUNCILMAN BRANT: But if this company won--if
2 they bid on it, which I assume they ought to and should,
3 if they bid on it and we accepted them, we could then
4 sit down with them and renegotiate if they can convince
5 us part of our porposal is wrong, we can change it; is
6 that correct?
7 MR. GRAHAM: They're not required to bid, though.
{ 8 No one is required to bid.
.
j 9 COUNCILMAN BRANT: But they are required to be
z
x 10 regulated?
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11 MR. GRAHAM: Right.
.
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12 COUNCILMAN BRANT: We have the right and that' s
.
13 been tested in the Missouri Supreme Court recently that
<! 14 municipalities do have the right----cable television is a
15 utility—and whether they submit a franchise agreement or
16 not, their rates will still be under our control, and
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17 the rates have to be determined upon the type of service
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V 18 you receive.
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19 MR. ALDEN: Dr. Brant, one of the problems
20 you're going to have is when the proposals come in they
21 will not look alike. You will not be able to compare
22 apples and apples.
23 You're going to have people in here promising
24 everything from 104 channels to heaven knows what. This is
25 simply what is going on in the franchising practices today.
46 -
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1 Now, the specs you have written themselves have
2 problems in them that really if you accept proposals based
3. Eli
3 on those specs and then you say well, now we can negotiate
f._r.1. 3
rt`':.,< r ,q. it down with whoever we pick, then you've got a big legal
_ , 5 question there that says well, then you're really changing _.
6 the basis that everybody was asked to bid upon and then z}'=
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4a: , , 7 you're opening Pandora's box. j!
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x 8 COUNCILMAN BRANT: Well, that may very well be r:
y,� 4i 9 but I guess what I'm looking at is from---since I have heard
this rhetoric for years and PR between myself and what 5 '
r==',�x,. ,. 10 Y Y
•5sr''=.' 5 11 I've been promised with your company and the predecessor " "
°-, . ' is we at the most it seems to me that in good faith you
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y;`y �;z tr
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; 15
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x 17 and then sit down and go through and hash it all out
.. _ ..- 18 with you again like you have some privileged character
19 that you can't bid on it but yet you want us to sit down
20 and spend God knows how many nights discussing all this stuf ,
21 with you.
22 MR. ALDEN: Dr. Brant, that's not what we're
23 suggesting. What we're suggesting is we genuinely may
24 not bid on this because the bid specs are problematical.
25 They're not real, they're just not. We're not sure we
47
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1 need to bid on it. I'm not sure we want to get into a
2 situation where there are ten extremely influential local
3 people involved in a group.
4 Now, they are your friends that you live with
5 every day. They make campaign contributions to you that were
6 not going to be bidding against. I'm not sure we want to get
7 involved in a situation like that. .
a{ i 8 There's probably twenty different issues we've got
0
= 9 to examine. Many of them are contained in that letter
I
z 10 we just gave to you.
.
k 11 MAYOR HARTSFIELD: O.K. I think that pretty
.
1
12 well at least takes care of the questions, and maybe we
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13 have our positions out in the open a little better.
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24
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48
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coiancia_mkrk_amaign, .. ebruary 9. 1981 .
Iwe have scouted every property surrounding Jefferson City for I� '
miles , and you cannot go too far out because your costs will get
' prohibitive. If you do not take a hard look at something presently,;
you will be in a position of using up the site which E.S.M. is
presently using, then go out and acquire a small site, you will
have another problem at the other end of town. There are a lot of
spots you could get to last a couple of years , twenty-five, thirty
or forty acres, but there are people to be reckoned with and that
is the problem. The City awns property, the old quarry, about
' forty acres, that could be made into a landfill, but look at how I'
• many people there are around it -, you would have all kinds of
problems and it would only last a few years . t!
Solid �� Basically, we have done everything that can be done - it is li
Waste ;3 really up to you at this point . I am here to answer any questions j'
Issue_ ;! you might have from what I have thrown out.
Landfill ; Councilman Crader inquired if there were other cities in the
Sites , lsurrounding area that own their own sites and lease them out to a .a
, successful bidder.
I Mr. DeLong stated they had not gone into this .. perhaps Mayor
! Hartsfield had - but they were busy working with the Department of
( Natural Resources and looking for sites , they felt that was the
important thing. He stated he understood Fulton owned and operated
itheir own system.
Mayor stated Tom had talked with Columbia and Fulton and it
was his understanding they both have municipally owned services
and their own owned and operated landfill.
Tom Benton stated there had been a Sub-Committee appointed who
! met with representatives of Fulton and Columbia - this was done ;'.
early in the search to determine if there was any feasibility of F'
pursuing cooperative programs with other communities . The City of
. Fulton just recently got a new site approved. Columbia was finish-
ing one out and were moving further up north. There was no
interest from either one of them about a cooperative landfill .
Both Columbia and Fulton do own and operate their own systems .
Councilman Hequembouri; inquired of Mr. DeLong if he could
! suggest any option the City could take to allow us to get competi-
! time bids without getting into the landfill business from an owner
! standpoint , keeping ownership and operation in the private sector? ,
tie stated he was against the City investing in a landfill , I think
there is enought government involvement in too many things now.
Mr. Del.ong responded by saying he did not think we could .
without doing this preliminary engineering phase, because if you
open it up for bids and X Company comes in from out of town, unless,
you give sufficient length of time - and than *110 they invest that
money w as you know the cost of design location was not to exceed
twenty-five thousand dollars . I cannot see how you are ever going
to get anyone to bid competitively without first having located
some property, tested it, have it under control ' that is , an
. option to be able to then transfer that option to the other person.
That is something you would then have to negotiate with the land
owner. There again, when it gets out into the general public
there is so much pressure that is put on that those people fall by
the wayside - their neighbors get angry at them and such things. ''
I think you are going to have to say - this place looks good to us ,
it is not going to disturb anyone, we are going to do the testing
in it and then proceed to tie that piece of property up in a manne
that everyone can bid using that piece of property, and either ;,
acquire the property from the City or the individual with which th ! -
City has negotiated, because unless there is a great length of tim
I do not think private firms can go out and find a good site that
would do less damage to the City.
You can go out and find sites and buy them overnite but they
would create the same problem the site has created on the east end
of town. If you want to find the site that doesn't disturb people,
{ you are going to have to locate the site, tie it up, and then tell
the individuals to bid on that basis . I know of no other way of
I doing it. ii
III �
Councilman Crader stated , as he had before, he thinks the Cityi!
needs to buy or take an option on a piece of ground - I am in
sympathy
thy with the people in the east end of town and the people
across the river, wherever it might be, because it may hurt the
property value to some extent , but with inflation, whoever bids on
this is going to wonder how to bid with a contract for ten years .
•
. i
42
_.... . _.1.a t nci ._Bark_.. aftai ot2..,....F ebxu iX _-
Should they get a fifteen per cent increase each year, thirteen per
cent or five per cent? I believe if the City owns the site, where-
.
ever it might be, they can control the rates , and I believe this
would help the contractor. But if we don't, even the contractor
bidding on it would not know what the rates would be each year,
with inflation. But I think the way to go is to own the land,
lease it out, not own the trucks and such, just own the land and
let the successful bidder dump the trash in that area.
Mr. DeLong stated the piece of land they suggested - the owner
was willing to lease it to the City for a level twenty-year figure,
it would be the same orice year after year. You would not have a
capital investment, you would be able to say this site will cost
you X number of dollars per year to use, and as you filled the area
it reverts back to the owner, you would not have a capital invest- 1
ment on this particular piece of prooerty we suggested you test. ' Solid
Councilman Hequembourg inquired as to whether or not this Waste
party would be able to sign this lease on a year to year basis - Issue -
that is the only way the City can contract for the lease . We Landfill
cannot commit from one Council to thenext. sites .
Mr. DeLong stated he did not think he would accept the year to
year basis, but the Council should be able to commit like you have
done on other contracts. I think this individual understands the
City's position - and that is just the way we stand at this time.
I realize there is no easy solution but unless you have a landfill
site large enough you are going to have this every few years and
have it dropped all around the Jeff City perimeter, where they can
find twenty acres, five or ten acres . The long term thing, for
disposal, is of course recycling and the City is going to have to
take a hard look at what to do, because I think disposing of trash 1
is a more serious problem than most of us realize - I didn't real-
ize it was quite as severe a problem as it is until we got active
in this Committee. The Hickory Hill problem is an example, it will
be there for many years because basically it,,vas not soil or
location, as far as the terrain, that should/Wave been a landfill
to begin with.
Councilman Hequembourg said he thought one of the hesitations
of the Council on the testing was the expense and when you test: the
first site and it does not meet the criteria, you have to go to two
and three. Is there any testing that con he done, spending less
money, that will tell you more closely whether or not it is worth
spending big money?
Mr. DeLong answered he thought it would be a little mislead-
ing - I would say, as an example, for two or three thousand dollars,
you could core bore and determine if we have ten foot of the properi
clay here, or twenty, thirty, fifty, sixty feet , but then you are
faced with - does the terrain lie whereby you can design a landfill
so that it won't get into a watershed that presents to a problem
further away from it, and so forth. Tom and I have spent a lot of
time with the Engineering Firms , we tried to get a Firm that was
experienced, leading in the work that was designed for areas
similar to what we have. I really do not think there is a cheaper
way - maybe Tom has some thoughts.
Mr. Benton stated perhaps there was one thought that was lost
when the Ordinance came up - that amount was the maximum - we were
going with a lump sum contract, it was never our intent to just
say - OK here is the contract, go to it. It would have been done
in phases , where the core drilling was being done, and maybe at
the two or three thousand dollar point that would have ruled out
one specific site, but we saw no way in developing a contract - the
Engineer wanted a set fee in there if they followed through, the
core drillings were sent to the Lab - they all looked well - then
they started laying out how the trenches would go in there, or we
would have had a program that the City would have paid twenty or
twenty-five thousand dollars , if that parcel of land would have
met all the criteria and would have ended up and the plan would
have been submitted to D. & R. It was always the intent to go
about it very cautiously on a step by step basis - if it would not
have tested out we probably would have had an investment of about
two or three thousand dollars .
Councilman Hequembourg asked at what point during this testing
would you be fairly sure that that site would be a feasible site?
Mr. DeLong answered - after the core boring, if it has the
right clay content and the soil is deep enough, at that point, and
some preliminary engineering on the land, the Engineering Firm
48
co,sn,•[1 Work es n j n _ehs __9 1981.
would be able to tell, but they felt they needed to do some researcit
_ first as for tonnage, as an example, an Engineering Firm coming in
to go thru this process , they have to know how many tons will go
into the place per day - they have to figure out the details%k. which
is going to take time, but I would think, from the way we had that
structured, that somewhere between ten and fifteen thousand, at
the most, we would know whether it is going to go - then Mr. DeLong
asked Mr. Benton if he agreed.
Mr. Benton stated those Ordinances were set up on the
conditions - the Committee was looking for total approval of the
;site so they could go to the Council and they would have a total
Solid open package - any contractor could come in here and know they had
Waste this site located here, already approved by D.& R. , it would last
Issue - 1',twenty-five years . They could keep track of their trucking costs
Landfill+ and everything else, everything essential to prepare good,
Sites. competitive bids - that is what it would work up to. I do think
that for ten thousand dollars you could come up with something of
assurance, not the total package laid out for them, with fields
and trenches designed, but for that amount I think we could come
!up with a package whereby any firm could say - that looks good.
We do not have D.& R. approval on it but from all preliminary tests
it looks good and feel that we can submit a bid on it.
Mayor Hartsfield inquired - in order for Tom to draft proposa
which he is bound to do, until the Council passes some other motion
for bidders for Franchise tohaul trash, Councilman Hequembourg had
made the motion that the present site, site of the bidders ' choice,
or a site the City has optioned upon. At this point we have no
option on another site. Does the Committee have a site where the
owner is willing to sign a lease or option or a purchase?
Mr. DeLong referred the question to Mr. Brydon, who was
present and who is attorney for the owner, and he has talked with
the City Attorney, and it is my understanding they have an under-
standing, a more or less verbal agreement , what needs to be done.
111 There has been an option until we can drill it and test it, then
the opportunity to go into a lease - I believe it is to that point.
Mayor Hartsfield stated he had not seen an option and thought
that should be decided before Mr. Benton could draft his request
for bids .
! Mr. Benton stated he had been contacted by the owner of the
iproperty that Mr. DeLong mentioned and he verbally told me he is
1not interested - this was after Mr. Hequembourg made the proposal
to the Council and submitted his Menio listing the various options -
this property owner informed me he is not interested in that
approach, simply because of the criticism and the problems connect-
ed with the issue. He indicated that to offer an option on a site
that may or may not be used - it would be taking advantage of him
and he is not willing to go that route. He will make the property I
available to the City, but will not make it available as an
alternate to another site - either we make a deal on that piece of
property or forget it, because he feels he would get into too many
problems . He was only interested in dealing with the City, he was
not interested in dealing with a private contractor, because in his
, opinion he felt the City could have certain controls even if they
in turn turned the option over to the low bidder of a contract.
He was very concerned about the property owners in the area and
felt that only by dealing with the City that the people over there,
' they would not like the idea anyway, but he felt the City could
IS follow thru and protect the area better than a private firm or
11 individual. Mr. DeLong agreed with Mr. Benton's statements .
Mr. Dave Brydon stated he represents the people who own the
, tract of land - they will give an option to the City, but only if
Othey understand the City is really committed to doing this. They
recognize the engineering tests might prove the land is not useful,
;! and they are willing to take that risk, but they are not willing to;�
!stake the risk of giving the option - use it if you want to, or ;'f
1don't use it if you don't want to - once they do that they will be II
! subjected to - and already have been - viscious telephone calls, i
III property damage, and abuse to them and their children. They will 1
Igive the City an option if we have some reasonable way of being
icertain we can keep the location and the identity of the people ;i
confidential.
Councilman Hequembourg stated he thought more information
should be gained on both sites , as to the length of the term of
the site, and what the cost is going to be, so that we have the
44
option to bid it on two locations , not just one. And that answers
' the critics to the East side and the critics in Callaway County.
We would go with the site which is more economically feasible. I
am willing to spend the ten thousand dollars to test the site so w=
can offer that site to the prospective bidders and get competitive
bids,
Mayor Hartsfield then referred to the "Clean-up", no longer
provided without cost to the City - the results of your Committee Clean
meeting, it will be put up for bid - it will be optional, once or Up
twice a year, one year at the time. We always have the option to Week.
reject all bids.
The advertisement for bids has already been run and there was
some objection since the Council had not yet received the Minutes
of the Public Works Meeting, or any information about the matter.
Mr. Benton could not answer all questions as Mr. Bates had prepar-.
the ad - and Mayor stated it would be better if the Council could
endorse it before the advertisement was given. Mr. Benton stated
:le 2
4y. he thought, since it was open bidding, the bids were to be prepare.
on a one pick-up 4rnly. If any contractor but E. S.M. gets the bid
they have to provide their routes to the City so we can guarantee
some coordination and do not have trash setting out at the curb
for a two-week period.
Mayor Hartsfield then proceeded to discussion on the "Old Jail".
There are two Bills on the Agenda for Monday night 's Council
meeting - both will be up for voting and whatever becomes of them
will probably settle the situation with the Old Jail once and for
all.
One is the Indemnification Contract, maintenance for twenty-
five years, which the Council requested in lieu of a Sinking Fund,
and the other is the Architect's Contract . If those are approved,
then we can go ahead and have the Citizens ' Advisory Committee put
together and start to work on the program. I have not started
any work on the program, meaningfully, until I was assured the
Council was going to see the whole project thru.
Any questions may be asked of Mr. Brydon, Mrs . Epstein of the
Cole County Historical Society, Mr. Rucker of D.& R. , historic
preservation, and Larry Linke from the Department of Public Safety
I think all of the groups who have had an interest and an active
part are represented. And if any of you want to make a
presentation or comment , that is fine.
Councilman Prenger inquired whether there would be Federal Old
funding available to continue this type of project in the future, Jail
after this initial funding? Mr. Linke replied - the funding Discussion.
source used for the funding of this project came from Juvenile
Justice Delinquency Division. Missouri lost eligibility for the
funding in the Federal Fiscal year of 1980, it did not receive
money, but now is reentering the program because of modifications
made in the Act. The Law is very specific as to requirements you
must meet in order to receive money. There are two primary
objectives or initiatives the State will focus on in the coming
years that will have to do with separating adults from juveniles.
At this point, for money available this year, there will be no
program categories that will be appropriate for this type of
project. It may be that in the coming two or three years ,
delinquency prevention programs, within which this project fits,
might be a funding category, but there is no guarantee that there
will be money available, in fact, there will be no money available
for this current fiscal year.
Mr. Rucker stated his Department administered the National
Historic Preservation Fund - the Old Jail, since it is entered on
the National Historic Places, would be eligible for development
moneys. It would be eligible in each successive Grant year when
there were Federal Funds available. These funds would only be
available for preservation purposes and not for other uses .
Councilman Prenger thought it was the feeling of the Council
they were not willing to put funds into the restoration and there
may have been some reluctance to obligate the City for funding
this type of program in the future.
Mr. Linke advised that for any renovation or construction
project using these funds there is a 50-50 match - for every dollar
of Federal money it would be matched by dollar of local money. In '
this particular situation there was a waiver of that requirement
45
• , . , . u a.
for this particular. project - the reason is that the State can
accumulate matching funds from other projects.
Mr. DeLong stated there had been an agreement reached with the •
Federal Agency of a $15,000 matching amount. My uncerstanding is
that it has been agreed to match that with $15,000 - not from the
`` City, the matching is coming from the Historical Society.
Mr. Linke stated the only matching required is for renovation
work, for example, the program aspect of it, that which deals with
the staff, expenses of the program, that is one hundred per cent
Federal funding.
Councilman Hequembourg inquired about the manner in which Mr.
Cotton was selected as Architect for the project and the percentage
Old he was to be paid (he stated the fee was something between fifteen
Jail and sixteen per cent) . He felt local firms should have had the
Discussion opportunity to interview and submit proposals. ,
• Mr. Rucker stated they encouraged people to find Firms who
specialized in this type of work - at the office we have a list of
firms who do this type of work and most of them are located in the I
two metropolitan areas of the state, but I was not involved in
making this selection.
Mr. Linke stated that as far as he knew the Historical Society
contacted Mr. Cotton and his name was submitted to us on the
application as the Architect they wished to use, because of his
expertise in dealing with these older structures .
Mrs. Epstein stated that actually he had been chosen on
account of his work at the Jefferson Landing, in which the Cole
County Historical Society had a very intense interest.
Mr. Brydon stated there certainly was no effort to exclude
local Architects on this project - you told us to go out and find
the money to do this and to find a use for it. We did both of
these things , and got the money to the City to do it . We knew this
Architect to possess a high degree of competency in the area, he
was available and submitted a price. The Federal Government
III 'accepted it - the Architect 's fee is a part of the Grant - it may
Knot even be necessary for the City to approve the Architect .
{1 Mayor Hartsfield stated there were three Grants received,
tthree checks received - one of those checks was the exact amount of'l
the Architect 's fee. That award of the application, the Grant and
the check were all separate. Approval was given to use that
Architect without competitive bidding because of his expertise in it
the area. ;}
Mayor Hartsfield inquired - the Cole County Mental Health
Clinic does a great deal of counselling and work with Juveniles andl
Alcoholic and Drug Abuse - after we get the Advisory Council
organized, etc. , if it seems to be more practical to contract with i1
, them to use the facility, is that a possibility? I
Mr. Linke stated a modification could be submitted to the `
! Department of Public Safety for the review, with an explanation as J'
to why some alternative course is needed or desired. It could be
reviewed and and then approved, if they felt appropriate.
Mr. Brydon then brought up the matter of Maintenance Contract.
It is for twenty-five years. There are two items of maintenance
he did not think they should be responsible for. First, a break in
lla trunk sewer; we will take care of the plumbing inside the
• building but do not think the trunk sewer should be our responsi- 1
bility. The next item, relative to termites or vermin. We will li
take the re4aponaibility of protecting against that but I do not I
Ithink should be responsible for making the inspection on that. It
iMr. Graham stated this had already been eliminated on the copy. It
. ti
Zoning 'The next item of business - The Zoning Ordinance and proposed
Ordinance ,amendments . Mr. Charles Jackson, Chairman of the Sub-committee {
;which has been working on the proposed new Zoning Ordinance for
several months , explained the Committee's position on the proposed li
`Ordinance and on the Hequembourg Amendments. Several other
,amendments were also brought to the floor.
After the explanation and discussion, Mayor Hartsfield stated
that if the amendments and all could be ready by Monday, the Bill si
'could be placed on final passage, but if not ready we could carry HH
it on the Informal Calendar for several weeks - we would rather do i'
that than to come back several months later and make revisions . lj
Session adjourned. €
•