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MINUTES
Planning Commission Agenda Meeting April 10, 2006 – 7:00 p.m.
Planning Commission Members present at the Agenda Meeting on April 10, 2006 were: Barry Brown,
Sandy Chandler, Bill Garbett, Susan Hill, Rachel Perkins, Chuck Powell, and Lawanna Tsoulos. Honor
Hutton and Gene Kindrick were absent. Building and Zoning staff present: Dee Anderson, Warren Millikan
and Dianne Otto.
Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos reminded everyone that this meeting was not the Public Hearing so they
want to ask questions and clarify anything they need to clarify, but to a great extent the questions they
ask should be held for the Public Hearing when they vote and the public tunes in. She said if they ask a
lot of questions tonight and get clarification and then do not ask in front of the public it leads to
confusion. Chuck Powell asked if they could ask questions about information they need. Tsoulos said
absolutely, and that is primarily the reason they are here: to look at the petitions to see that everything
needed is here. Sandy Chandler said the folks that are here need information too. Tsoulos said exactly,
anything they need from us also. She told the audience if the Planning Commissions questions seem
brief, the purpose for being here is to look at the petitions and make sure everything needed is here
before they come next Tuesday.
Gail Lamb was not present at the Agenda Meeting to represent a Zoning Variance petition for 9 Lovell
Avenue, PIN 4-0003-17-005, Zone R-1-B. Bill Garbett said this was a totally different proposal. He said
the original proposal was to move an existing building to the site but this proposal was to construct a
building. Anderson said no, she is still moving the building there. Anderson said Lamb meets all the
setbacks with the new building but she wants to square off the old house when she attaches it. Tsoulos
said the reason for the Variance is that the original structure is nonconforming. Garbett said the original
project was to take one of the old infirmary sections. Anderson said that was still what Lamb wants to do.
Garbett said those are only one story but this has got two stories. Anderson said Lamb is raising it up so
she can park and have storage underneath. Rachel Perkins said it has a second story heated space.
Tsoulos asked if that was before the Planning Commission last time. They decided it was not. Barry
Brown said a second floor would destroy the historical value. Garbett said Lamb did not claim any
historical value. Tsoulos asked if everyone way okay with putting it on the Agenda. All agreed it was.
Brown said they need a survey with a ground elevation. Susan Hill asked for a side elevation.
Lisa Harper represented a Zoning Variance petition for Jimmy Harper at 1707 Butler Avenue, PIN 4-0009-
02-003, Zone C-1. Sandy Chandler told Harper he would like to see a survey of the structure that exists
now. He asked if it extends into the front setback by 10 feet now. Harper said yes. Harper said they
would remove the old steps and come out with a 10-foot covered porch. She said the house had a porch
but they [previous owners] enclosed it and it is heated now. She said it needs a front porch; it is not very
attractive. Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos asked if it was 10 feet from the property line. Harper said no, it
was 10 feet from the house. Barry Brown said she would be back about 3 feet from what is existing.
Chandler asked how wide she anticipated going. Harper said 10 feet is all they want to go. Tsoulos asked
if that was 10 feet into the setback. Harper said no, the porch is going to be 10-feet. Chandler said the
steps would come out another 3 feet. Harper said yes, they wanted them to come out; they really
wanted the pretty front steps but they were advised to go to the side because of the setback. Bill Garbett
asked what would be the actual setback from the front property line. Harper asked if they could not see
that on the drawing. Brown said there were no dimensions on it and asked that they be put on it. Harper
said she did not know why they were not. Tsoulos said the Planning Commission needs to know how far
the new steps would be from the front property line. Harper said it is going to be less than what it is
now. Chuck Powell asked if this was in C-1. All agreed that it was. Anderson said the application said it
would be in the setback 5 feet. Tsoulos said it looks like there would be a 15-foot setback. Garbett said it
looks like it, but rather than guessing they need measurements. Harper said sure. She said the Hunter
House is further up; all the houses are further to the road. Chandler suggested Harper take a photograph
down the street. Brown said the 200-foot rule may apply. Harper asked if she needed to show them
colors. Perkins said no. Harper asked if it looked like a problem. Perkins said they would decide next
Tuesday.
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Jim Daniel represented a Zoning Variance petition for the Trustees for Trinity Methodist Church at 911
Butler Avenue, Zone R-2. Sandy Chandler asked about the existing metal shed going across the property
line. Daniel said that was a carport and when the church put that up they got approval. Dee Anderson
said it had been there a long time and it was where they park their van. Rachel Perkins asked about the
parking area. Daniel said it is currently a parking area. Chuck Powell said churches are not required to
meet parking requirements. Barry Brown asked if they were going to have it 4-feet off the property line.
Daniel said that was correct. He said they did not want an entry out to the back going out into the street;
they wanted people flowing out of each side. Brown asked if the building would line up with the existing
building with a front porch with steps going off both sides. Daniel said that was correct. Chandler asked if
the jut out was building and not porch. Daniel said that was correct. Daniel said the blueprint shows it.
The blueprint was discussed by all. Perkins asked for an explanation of the hardship; a description of
what they are doing and why they are doing it. Tsoulos asked Daniel if he understood Perkins’ request.
Daniel said yes. Chandler said they meet the setback the way the building stands now. He said with this
addition the side setback would decrease to 4.03. Daniel said if they put steps they would be in the
setback anyway. Tsoulos told Daniel the only question is the hardship.
Clay Brewer represented a Zoning Variance petition for Charles and Sandra Brewer at 156 South
Campbell Street, PIN 4-0016-02-018, Zone R-2. Chuck Powell asked if they were asking for the Variance
because they were encroaching into the marsh setback. Brewer said DNR came over and put the flags,
and this project would be a little bit off the line of where they marked. Powell said it was important for
the Planning Commission to see both those lines. Brewer said the room was too small to have any kind of
family gathering. He said it would not be encroaching over the buffer – it would be within the buffer. Bill
Garbett said DNR does not mark the buffer; DNR marks the jurisdiction line. Barry Brown asked if the
drawing showed dimension lines. Garbett said the key was at the bottom. Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos
asked about a line. Barry Brown said it was the tidal line. Perkins said the question is if it is part of the lot
or not. Brown said the solid line is the DNR jurisdiction line. Brewer said they want to come off from the
existing concrete and make the living room more family oriented and then make a deck that will hang
over the embankment and blend into the existing walkway to the dock. Powell asked permission to look
at this. Brewer said yes. Brewer said the deck they want to build would be almost the same as what Cam
Jackson has next door, so it would not be anything different than everybody through the whole street.
Brown asked about a concrete pad back there. Brewer said yes, they are going to knock a wall out and
build to the existing concrete where they can have more than one sofa. Susan Hill asked how many
additional feet they are going to extend. Brewer said it could not be more than 10 or 11 feet. Perkins
asked about the southwest corner of the property. Brewer said that was the way they divided the
properties. Perkins asked if they were going to build on property that was not theirs. Brewer said they
want to move their family part to the other side of the house because they are so close to the neighbors.
Perkins said it looked like the property line. Brown said the property line was in the marsh, and told
Brewer to get a drawing showing where the building was and how far it was from where DNR flagged the
line so everyone could understand what they want to add on. Tsoulos asked Brewer if he understood.
Brewer said yes. Hill said to take this drawing and add hash marks where the deck will be added. Dee
Anderson told Brewer to have Whitley Reynolds call him if he had questions.
Mark Crapps of Kern-Coleman and Company and Thomas Bolen, Resort Manager at Tybrisa Beach Resort,
represented a Site Plan Approval petition at Tybrisa Beach Resort, 1 Fifteenth Street, PIN 4-0008-03-
001G, Zone C-1. Crapps said this was a proposed maintenance shop located where the old tennis court
was at Tybrisa. He said they would take up impervious pavement and put the building, so there would be
no increase in runoff; probably less. Crapps addressed Downer Davis’ comment concerning the parking.
He said that overflow parking was in that area now so what they are going to do is restripe the area and
cut out some pavement to create more landscaped areas. Brown asked about the dirt lane. Chuck Powell
asked if the parking spaces were required when they converted the tennis court into parking. Dee
Anderson and Crapps said no. Powell said they are not eliminating parking spaces by building this. Crapps
said no, it is all overflow. Crapps said he will revise the plan and show the parking layout. Brown said this
was C-1 and was not residential so it has zero setbacks. Crapps said he did not want water going into the
dirt drive and he put a concrete flume behind it, and they will use gutter and downspouts into that flume
and then discharge it back onto the existing pavement. He said they will not throw any water off their
property. Brown asked it was a one-story building. Crapps said two-story prefabricated metal building.
Powell said it would be nice to know what it would look like. Crapps said okay. Susan Hill said we can
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request that information. Powell said this is right in the heart of the commercial district and will be visible
from Tybrisa Street since it is two-story. Bolen said it would have a prefab stucco siding; it is not going to
be a metal building on the outside. He said it has what looks like stone corners with stucco in between.
Tsoulos said that might be helpful if you can do that. Bill Garbett asked if they minded if the Planning
Commissioners came out on the property. Bolen said help yourself. He said it is going on the corner of
Atlantic and that lane. Anderson said there would be a ramp going into the building. Crapps said they are
putting a drive coming in on Atlantic Avenue. Brown asked where the ramp was going to start. Crapps
said they were tying into the edge of the pavement. Brown asked if it was a 30-foot right-of-way.
Anderson said yes. Hill asked what was going to drive on that ramp. Bowen said box trucks delivering
appliance, U-Haul type trucks. Brown asked how high the ramp was going to be. Crapps said it was going
to match the finished floor elevation. He said it is about a 2 foot rise coming up to the building. He said
they had planned the building to be on the ground but they met with Anderson and Chuck Bargeron, and
even though it is not a habitable building they did not want it to be below the required flood plane
elevation. Anderson said they only needed 2 feet. Crapps said the rise was 2 feet in a distance of about
20 feet. Brown asked if pedestrians could get up on it to get out of the way of traffic. Bolen said there
was a fence there. Hill said it looked like the ramp was out into Atlantic Avenue. Crapps said they can
keep it kind of flat like a sidewalk for about 5 feet and then taper up to meet the building elevation.
Brown said pedestrians go up and down there to and from the beach. Tsoulos said lets hold these
questions for the Public Hearing.
Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos said the question of recommending conditions to Council came up and
Rachel Perkins did some research. She said this was primarily for the Planning Commissioners
information. Perkins said Mr. Jenkins said if they are going to set conditions on Variances that it needs to
be spelled out in the Code. She said she looked in the Code and it seems they already can. She read 5-
090(B). Bill Garbett said that was Zoning, not Variances. Perkins said Special Review has it spelled out.
She said under Variances, 5-090, it spells out that the Mayor and Council can attach conditions. She said
it might be okay for Planning Commission to, therefore, give recommendations recommending that
conditions be attached. Tsoulos what they are speaking to at this point is conditional recommendations
and conditional approval, and according to the attorney they met with if that is not spelled out in the
Code they can not ask for conditions. Barry Brown said they are just recommending those conditions.
Sandy Chandler said the Variance in and of itself is asking for something that is in opposition to the Code,
so any recommendation they make would be to temper that in some way. He said he did not see any
conflict. Brown asked Perkins if they were trying to pinpoint specific situations where when they grant a
Variance they have to abide by a certain recommendation. Perkins said that is part of it. She said that
would be when Council approved it. Brown asked if she was proposing that for the Planning Commission.
Perkins said no, but she thinks that they can propose absolutely as part of their thing a recommendation
that must be approved with conditions. She said there has been some objection that that was not their
role to do. Tsoulos said it has come up in some meetings when they, for instance, recommended a
Variance but then recommended conditions. She said the clarification here is that they can recommend
conditions to City Council and it is in the Code. Perkins said Planning Commission legally can approve
something with conditions. Tsoulos said this was basically for our information: it is in the Code so if the
Planning Commission wants to look at conditions to approve a Site Plan, a Variance, or something, it is
there. Hill asked if in all three circumstances it is appropriate. Perkins said in other words, what they have
been doing is okay. Tsoulos said the Planning Commission has been doing it all along, but it had been
questioned at times as to whether or not they can do that. Garbett asked if they should ask City Attorney
Bubba Hughes. It was decided that recommendations were alright to do. Tsoulos said they would not be
recommending to City Council something that is not legal for them to do.
Chuck Powell said he had a question because several people had come to him about this: at the last
Meeting Phil O’Dell did not show up even though he was scheduled and he was not there tonight so they
do not have him on the Agenda for the next Meeting. Powell said it was his understanding that when
O’Dell moved that building to that site that he only had a certain amount of time. Powell said we
approved the Sketch Plan and O’Dell had to come back with a Site Plan. Powell said he thought they gave
O’Dell 30 days. Dee Anderson said that at the last Agenda Meeting he spoke with O’Dell in the hallway
and asked him about his drainage plan. Anderson said he told O’Dell instead of piecemealing this, go
ahead and get it all done. Anderson said O’Dell’s engineer from Kern-Coleman is working on the drainage
plan. Anderson said O’Dell is trying to get everything so when he comes back it will be one thing. Barry
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Brown asked if O’Dell requested an extension. Anderson said yes, he has had several conversations with
O’Dell about it.
Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos said she is going to send an email to everyone to make sure her group
email is working. She asked that each person reply to the email so she will know that if she needs to
email to all of them at one time she can do it.
Chuck Powell asked if they were still trying to schedule a meeting between the Planning Commission and
City Council. Dee Anderson said yes, City Council wants to do that. He said he is working on a checklist.
Barry Brown asked about the Zoning Map. Dee Anderson said staff will get copies to the PC.
Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos said Chuck Bargeron was interested in Planning Commission and staff
having a potluck, with spouses, so they would have a chance to get to know each other. She told the
Commissioners to think about it and they would discuss it at the next Agenda Meeting. She said this has
been okayed by City Attorney Bubba Hughes. She said they could not discuss any business; it was strictly
a social event.
Bill Garbett said at the last Meeting they got a plan that they had to look at around the desk. Garbett said
he felt really uncomfortable voting for that. Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos said it was certainly within
their right to say, “we have not had time to study this.” Barry Brown said if something comes at the last
minute like that, just table it. Downer Davis said when he gets plans late or he submits late, it does not
mean the Planning Commission should try to match him and they should not feel rushed. Davis said what
he does is really independent, and what he does does not have much to do with setbacks and esthetics.
Tsoulos said Davis’ job was not to duplicate the Planning Commission’s work; they are separate but
integrated. She said they need to make sure what Davis asks for is happening, but their decisions do not
need to be held up, although they could be. Tsoulos told the Commissioners to feel free, if they are not
comfortable, to stop. Dee Anderson said tonight they have asked several people to do certain things, but
if somebody brings a whole new site plan in he agrees. Tsoulos said even a change that appears minor
but may have a great impact. Tsoulos said they should not have to look over somebody’s shoulder to
figure it out. Rachel Perkins said sometimes when working with a variety of different people it is hard to
get everyone to get their ducks completely in a row so many weeks ahead of time. She said she would
hope there would be some leeway. Anderson said yes, but if they show up the night of and surprise them
with something they have never seen and expect them to approve it. Garbett said he hated to discourage
someone from improving a plan because they bring it in at the last minute. Garbett asked about
projecting the plans on the screen. Anderson said he normally does that, and asked if the scanner had
been fixed. Davis asked why not recommend to the consultants to email PDF files. Brown said what
eventually is going to end up happening is they are going to have to have some legitimate surveys done
because hand sketching may be wrong. He said it is going to have to stop. He said if they want to have
something done on a Variance they are going to have to have a registered architect, to protect this body
and Council. Sandy Chandler said the northwestern part of the island has severe survey problems. Brown
said the hand sketches can not continue so everyone knows what they are voting on. Powell asked if that
was on the checklist of what is supposed to be turned in. Anderson said Ordinance says it can be a hand
sketch. Perkins said she did not see the problem if they know the dimensions of the lot and the building.
Garbett said they do not know if they have gone out and actually measured. Davis asked if they required
as-builts. Anderson said yes, after the fact. Davis said it sounds like they need an Ordinance change.
Brown said he is not in favor of them spending more money but, just for protection, it needs to be taken
out. Tsoulos said that was something they can recommend to City Council. Brown said they have got to
spend a little bit of money in order to get these things done. Sandy Chandler said the possibility of
fudging these things is just astronomical. Anderson said he would find which Ordinance specifically says
that.
The Agenda Meeting adjourned.