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MINUTES
Planning Commission Meeting May 16, 2006 – 7:00 p.m.
Planning Commission Members present at the meeting on May 16, 2006 were: Barry Brown, Sandy
Chandler, Bill Garbett, Honor Hutton, Gene Kindrick, Rachel Perkins, Chuck Powell, and Lawanna Tsoulos.
Susan Hill was absent. Building and Zoning staff present: Dee Anderson, Warren Millikan and Dianne
Otto.
Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos called the meeting to order. Gene Kindrick motioned to approve the
Minutes from the April 10th Agenda Meeting. Chuck Powell seconded the motion. The vote was
unanimous. Chuck Powell motioned to approve the Minutes from the April 18th Meeting. Gene Kindrick
seconded the motion. The vote was unanimous.
Ron Jacobs presented a Zoning Variance petition for owner Gilda DeMott at 606 Miller Avenue, PIN 4-
0005-13-003, Zone R-1. Jacobs said they are petitioning to fill in about 150 square feet of a drainage
ditch. He said they currently have a building permit and are under construction for a single family
residence. He said Ms. DeMott is concerned about the drainage ditch breeding mosquitoes and being a
danger for grandkids. Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos asked if there were any questions from the Planning
Commission for Jacobs. Bill Garbett asked how Jacobs calculated the area of the wetlands; according to
the plat the wetlands, delineated February 10, 2006, occupy about one-quarter of the lot. Jacobs said the
area was calculated by EMC Engineers as .04 acres and it did not meet the Corp of Engineers threshold.
Jacobs said they are not talking about filling that area; they are just talking about filling the ditch area.
Garbett said it did not meet the threshold in terms of size but it met the definition of a wetland. Jacobs
said that was right and the Corp said it was okay to fill in the ditch area. Garbett said the Corp said he
needed to come to the City. Jacobs said that was exactly what they said. Garbett said the acreage is
below the threshold for a nationwide permit but it is not below the threshold for the City of Tybee. He
asked Dee Anderson if that was true. Anderson said the wetlands ordinance was adopted last year and
this is the first person asking to do anything with it. He said they have been meeting with the builder and
the engineer because they have conflicting plans addressing the size of the house that was approved.
Garbett asked where the wetland was on the lot. Jacobs said the wetland boundary is defined on the
plat. Garbett asked if it had been filled in. Jacobs said no, it has not. He said they have a house under
construction in that area and they are talking about filling in the ditch in the right rear which is the area
outlined in green on the plat. Rachel Perkins asked Jacobs if he was building a house in a designated
wetland. Jacobs said that was correct. Perkins asked Jacobs if he had a piece of paper from the City of
Tybee that permits that. Jacobs said he has the building permit; this plat was submitted to Tybee and
that is what has been approved. Sandy Chandler asked if the area outlined in yellow was the flagged
wetland. Jacobs said that was correct, the ditch. Chandler asked if it was about 15 feet long. Jacobs said
yes, it is about 5 or 8 feet wide by 15 feet long. Garbett told Chandler that the area in yellow has already
been filled in. Chandler asked if that was by Jacobs. Garbett said yes. Chuck Powell said when he visited
the site that appeared to be the case. Jacobs said they have had equipment going across there to pull
trees out but there has been no additional fill brought into that area. Gene Kindrick said all the
surrounding lots coming from Sixth and from Jones seem to drain to that one point. Jacobs said they do.
Kindrick asked as you go south, does that drain back in there. Jacobs said yes, there is an inlet on the
adjacent property where everything drains which goes into the storm system. Garbett said it does not go
anywhere anymore. Jacobs said according to Public Works it does. Powell asked Anderson if Jacobs fills in
the remaining part would it cause the adjacent properties to flood, and is it the City’s responsibility to
reopen it if it is not draining correctly. Anderson said Jacobs has an engineered drainage plan that was
approved for this lot. He said the engineer can address whether the plan called for filling the ditch.
Anderson said Jacobs would have to revise his drainage plan since the ditch was to remain. Barry Brown
asked if it was possible to put a culvert pipe with a catch basin to let the water continue its path. Jacobs
said sure. Brown asked Jacobs who was doing the drainage. Jacobs said Mark Boswell. Brown asked
Boswell if it would work to put a culvert pipe because neighbors need to continue to drain into that area.
Boswell said he would have to recalculate that. He said he and Downer Davis talked about that and
agreed to not touch the wetlands. Boswell said apparently he has a different house plan on his drainage
drawings than what Jacobs got his building permit with. He said he could not answer Brown’s question
without looking at it. Brown asked Jacobs what was the difference on the house plans. Jacobs said what
was submitted to Tybee and approved was what they are building. Brown asked Boswell if his drainage
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calculations go to a different house plan. Boswell said it was a different footprint. Anderson said they will
be addressing that before they go any further; it just came to their attention that there were conflicting
plans. Boswell said one thing they did do to make the drainage work was: there is an inlet by Miller that
is basically not draining anything because it is higher than the ground around it so they lowered that inlet
6 inches to help the drainage up and down the street. He said he did not know if they could get another
inlet or pipe into that system or not. Brown and Boswell discussed elevations. Boswell said he would have
to look at it. Garbett asked Jacobs if he had any proposals for any sort of mitigation if he does destroy
this wetland. Jacobs said he had a conversation with Mark Padgett of the Corp of Engineers and he said
there was no mitigation required. Garbett told Jacobs that the Corp would not require it but it appears
that he filled an existing wetland without a permit and now is requesting a permit after the fact. He asked
Jacobs if he was willing to come up with a mitigation plan. Jacobs said sure, he would be willing to take a
look at it but they submitted the plan and it was approved by the City of Tybee. Brown said Jacobs has a
permit to build the house. He said his land is existing so Jacobs has a vested interest. Brown asked what
Jacobs did not have a permit for. Garbett said Jacobs did not have a permit to fill in the wetlands when
he built the house. Brown said this Site Plan should stand for itself. He asked if it was fresh water
wetlands. Jacobs said yes. Tsoulos asked Jacobs if he built but did not fill. Jacobs said that was correct.
He said they have to fill where the footprint of the house is for the concrete slab under the house but
they have not done that; they have not poured the slab yet. He said all they are trying to do is fill the
ditch in the back which is about 150 square feet. Tsoulos asked Jacobs if at some point in time it would
be necessary to put some fill where the pilings are now. Jacobs said yes, under the footprint of the house
they have to do that to pour the slab. Perkins asked if it was possible to build houses without slabs.
Jacobs said yes. Perkins asked if Jacobs would not necessarily have to pour a slab. Jacobs said they have
a permit to do so and plan on it. Perkins said to Jacobs that he has a permit to build on a slab in a
wetland. Jacobs said they submitted the plans and they were approved. Powell asked if they had
correspondence from the Corp of Engineers on this. Jacobs said there was a letter between EMC
Engineers and the Corp of Engineers. The Commissioners looked at the letter in their packet from EMC to
the Corp. Brown asked Jacobs if he presented the site plan with the house plans as a package to get a
permit. Jacobs said yes he did. Brown asked Jacobs if he now wanted to do this ditch. Brown asked
where the wetland was when Jacobs applied for the building permit. Jacobs said it was on the site plan.
Anderson said there are two different site plans; one from October of 2005 and the drainage plan from
Boswell from February of 2006 which shows a considerably smaller house. He said staff will have to work
out what can and can not be done; the permit was issued in error based on two different site plans.
Brown said this is something we may want to table. Tsoulos said we need to continue with the Public
Hearing. She asked if there was anyone in the audience that wanted to speak in favor or in opposition.
Tsoulos closed the Public Hearing. Brown motioned to table until staff can work out the issues with the
two different houses that were submitted. Gene Kindrick seconded. Brown said Boswell will have to redo
the calculations. Perkins said the posts are set but the house is not built yet. Tsoulos asked if they were
going to continue building. Anderson said no. The vote to table was unanimous.
Sam Liberti presented a Zoning Variance petition for Frank and Kim Nelson at 1409 Chatham Avenue,
Zone R-2, PIN 4-0011-09005. The request was for a 10.6-foot front setback rather than 20 feet. Liberti
said the house was originally built in 1940 and there have been several alterations. Liberti said the
Nelson’s bought the house earlier last year and saw that the house would not conform to their lifestyle.
He said the Nelsons found someone that would buy the house and move it to another location. Liberti
said according to the Ordinance they thought they could put another house in almost the exact footprint.
He said they are only asking for the stoop and front entry, 84 square feet; the balance of the house is in
the setback. Tsoulos asked the Commissioners if they had any questions. Sandy Chandler said, aside
from garages, that building would be the only one that would come that close to the street. Liberti said
that is correct, but according to Ordinance it states structures. He said Tybee Island can give up to 10
feet. He said they are asking for a cubicle of 84 square feet. Honor Hutton asked Liberti if they could
move the house further back on the property. Liberti said they are taking the swimming pool out of the
equation at this point because they are waiting on a ruling but they would rather not move the house
back in case they are allowed to put a pool; they do not want to reduce the area. He said the house is
pretty close to the original footprint. Hutton said the Planning Commission is here to grant Variances for
hardships and the Nelsons have room at the back of the property. Liberti said if they had left the house
they could have built the house back in the same footprint. He said the homeowner hastily sold the
house. Liberti said he was going by the Ordinance so he designed the house almost on the exact
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footprint thinking that they could go back and do that and then he was told that the house should not
have been moved but that was not explained when they did that. Bill Garbett said he does not see the
hardship. Liberti asked Garbett what was the hardships for the granting of the other variances of the
other structures outside the 20-foot setback. He said all they are asking for is the chance to align the
houses. Liberti said, yes, they could go back inside the 20-foot setback, yes, they could push the house
all the way back to the 10-foot rear setback, but they are trying to keep everything in line, utilize the land
and put a nicer structure and beautify Tybee. He said that is their hardship. Liberti said they are asking
the Planning Commission to at least allow them to build outside in those 84 square feet. Brown asked
about a storage building and carport that was setting on the property line. Liberti said they are gone, and
the steps of the house were about 3 feet from the street because there was just a single car parking pad.
Brown asked if they were putting them back. Liberti said no, they are going to have parking under the
house. Brown asked Anderson how old that house was. Anderson said he did not know. Anderson read a
clause put in the Land Development Code in April 2005 in Section 3-020, Continuance of Nonconforming
Uses or Structures. Brown said this house is going back in somewhat the same footprint. Perkins asked if
it was a new house. Liberti said yes, and because the space that was beneath it was habitable space, but
according to FEMA it did not meet that, so they could not retrofit the house, so they lost 50% of the
habitable space so the client decided to sell the house, move it, and build a new structure. Perkins said it
is hard for her to vote on plans when there is something on there that they do not need. Liberti said the
client wishes to have a pool and when the client tells him they want a pool he can not tell them they do
not need a pool so he has to show it on the plan. Liberti said he is trying to help the client and asking for
what they may see, working within the Ordinances. Perkins said the client is hopefully aware that there is
a 25-foot buffer zone. Liberti said not that he is aware of. He said it is not marshland; it is a bulkhead
and deep water and there is no vegetation. Perkins said there is marsh vegetation in the corner. Liberti
asked how you pour a concrete bulkhead when you have marsh vegetation. Perkins said the soil behind
the bulkhead supports wetland vegetation. Liberti asked if that could have been germinated through
winds. He said they did not consider that to be a vegetated marshland. Anderson said that at the Agenda
Meeting he was requested to find out about the 25-foot buffer. Anderson said he spoke with Bruce Boise
with the Environmental Protection Division last week and Boise called yesterday to say they were
stumped. Anderson said staff has taken pictures of the area and forwarded them to EPD in Brunswick. He
said EPD will have a ruling in two weeks as to whether or not there is a 25-foot buffer from the bulkhead.
Tsoulos clarified that the reason the pool was pulled was because there will be a decision made by the
EPD. Brown said the pool has nothing to do with the footprint of this house being put back the way it
was. Brown said it is actually not going out as far as before. Liberti said that was correct. Tsoulos asked
Anderson if what Liberti wants to do meets the requirements that Anderson had read. Anderson said this
is the first occurrence that it may apply to. Brown said Council approved them moving this cottage. He
said if they had torn the house down they could have built back in the same footprint. Perkins asked how
many stories the house would be. Liberti said two habitable floors above parking. Tsoulos asked if there
was anyone wishing to speak in favor or in opposition. She closed the Public Hearing. Perkins motioned
to approve. Brown seconded. Perkins said if the two structures on either side were just carports it would
be a different story. She said she is not approving the pool even though it is on the paper she is looking
at. The vote was five in favor with Hutton and Garbett voting in opposition. The motion to approve
carried. Tsoulos told Liberti it would go before City Council on June 8.
Ron Jacobs represented a Zoning Variance petition for Lot 12 North Wave Subdivision, Zone R-2, PIN 4-
0022-01-031. The request was for 5-foot into the front setback and 15-feet into the 25-foot buffer. Chuck
Powell read into the minutes a letter from the North Wave Homeowners Association encouraging
approval. Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos said the letter was received by all Planning Commission
Members. Jacobs said he was representing Steve and Judy Sims. He said they submitted a plan a couple
of months ago to build a 2,500 square feet home. He said that plan was supposed to be built adjacent to
the marshland line and was denied by Council. He said they have revised the plan and reduced the size
of the structure to about 1,600 square feet, which is the absolute minimum that North Wave allows.
Jacobs said they are asking for a 5-foot front setback encroachment and a 15-foot DNR buffer
encroachment. Steve Sims said they had planned to do the building three years prior but had some
serious family illnesses. Sims said they have gone through the different agencies over the past two or
three years and have adjusted their plans every time. He said they had verbal EPD approval to build in
the setback, as had been granted to other houses in the area, and all they had to do was send it in. He
said they sent it in and after 5 months had not received an answer. Sims said when it came back there
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was a new approval process and that it had to go to Tybee. Sims said when City Council said they did not
want it in the buffer that far they decided to bring down the size of the house and move everything
forward. He said the Homeowners Association was kind enough to give them a variance and they may
build a 1,600 square foot home even though the requirement now is 2,000 square feet; the Homeowners
Association let them be grandfathered in. Sims said they also got the 5-foot front setback approved by
the Homeowners Association. Sims said they are asking for less than what they had approved in March.
He said they are down as far as they can go. Rachel Perkins said the plan at the Agenda Meeting had a
10-foot encroachment and the revised has a 15-foot encroachment. Sims said it was a typo; it had
always been 15-feet. Bill Garbett said the application noted that the foundation would be treated wood
pilings. He asked if they would be excavating or filling. Sims said they have no intentions of excavating or
filling. He said they will drive the pilings and put down pervious pavers. Garbett said the drawing says no
impervious materials would be used in the buffer, but they are going to need a roof. Sims said you are
right; there will be a roof on the house. Tsoulos asked if there was anyone in the audience to speak in
favor or in opposition. Joe Craft said he lives in North Wave Subdivision and encourages the Planning
Commission to approve the variance. He said they have a beautiful marshland and he was sure the Sims
were going to take care of it. Keith Gay said he is also a homeowner at North Wave. He said this meets
all the criteria that is required for a hardship variance. Gay said the Sims have been asked to do more
than a fair share of concession in order for them to build the home that they committed to over seven
years ago. Gay said the Sims have been impacted by things that really were not in their control. Gay said
there are only two other lots that are going to be built in this subdivision. He said all of them are with
bulkheads and all comply with the requirements that were set up originally. Gay said it is a fair and
equitable approach, and encouraged the Planning Commission to approve it. Barry Brown asked Jacobs if
they were going to continue the bulkhead. Jacobs said yes. Brown asked on which line. Jacobs said
beside the marsh line. He said that was one of the conditions from the previous Planning Commission
meeting: pervious pavers, eco-friendly pilings and a bulkhead. Garbett said the bulkhead is just a further
disturbance in there. Tsoulos said that was their recommendation last time. Brown said it should have
been put there years ago. Tsoulos closed the Hearing. Garbett moved to approve. Brown seconded.
Perkins said she would like to see a compromise. She said there is a hardship. She said she would like to
see it be fifty-fifty: 10 feet into the marsh buffer and 10 feet into the front yard encroachment. Garbett
said he was satisfied with the plan and he would leave the motion as it is. Perkins said there is a meeting
tomorrow with DNR about 25-foot buffer impacts. She said she wished they had that meeting before this
came up. Garbett said City Council will have had that meeting. Perkins said there does appear to be a
significant tree that would need to be mitigated. Tsoulos said that would be taken care of at the staff
level. The vote was six in favor with Perkins opposed. Tsoulos said they would go before City Council on
June 8.
Bobby Chu and Tom Waters represented a Major Subdivision of Land and Variance from Section 10-
080(E) of Land Development Code, Street Design and Construction Specifications, for Robert Chu at
Eighth Street and Butler Avenue, Zone R-2, PIN 4-0005-20-006. Dee Anderson said this was sketch plan
only. Chu said originally they had submitted 16 lots, but since then they reduced it to 14 buildable lots.
He said there are two pieces of property on this plat: lot 47 and lot 46. He said if they were to do one lot
at a time they would meet all of the requirements as far as a 40-foot setback. Chu said since they
decided to do both lots they fall under the new Ordinance which requires a 60-foot setback, which is the
width of Butler Avenue. Chu said this is a private street, not a public street. He said they could come back
35 feet and save the majority of the oak trees. He said the street is 27-feet wide. He said everything
would be porous pavers; the only concrete would be the foundations. Chu said that because they are
going to take a few of the oak trees out they plan to plant 5-inch live oaks. He said there would be
sixteen of them at a total value of $30,000. Chu explained that the two lots on the ocean would be
duplexes and the other lots would be single-family. Chu referred to a letter the Commissioners received
from the Tybee Island Fire Chief. Perkins asked if the existing house fit in lot 7. Chu explained that Tony
Abbot would take the house and restore it to its original condition. Perkins asked how they are going to
remove the house without impacting the trees. Chu said they are looking at cutting the house in half;
that is how bad Abbott wants it. Perkins suggested leaving the house where it is. Chu described the
subdivision. Sandy Chandler asked if the house was on lot 7. Chu said it straddles lots 6 and 7. Chu said
they are going to have to move the street because in the front entrance there is a 36-inch live oak that
has an elbow out. Chu said it is really a 50-foot easement. Chandler asked if the T-road was the berm of
the old roadbed. Chu said it was the 20-foot easement the City put in. He said they combined the 20-feet
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and 20-additional feet to make a 40-foot easement. Chandler asked if there was egress. Chu said no, it
was strictly a sewage easement. Barry Brown and Chu discussed a misprint on the drawing for lots 14
and 15. Perkins clarified that this was a sketch plan. Chu said yes. He said all of the water will be
retained on the property. Perkins and Chu discussed tress. Perkins said when she looks at the potential
house going into lot 15 it looks like it could be an 1,800 square foot footprint, but that is not guaranteed
by the Tree Ordinance. Tsoulos asked if anyone in the audience wished to speak in favor or in opposition.
Leon Aronson said he lives on Eighth Street. He said replacing 100-year old trees with 5-inch tree is not
an even swap. He asked who dictates which trees will be spared. Perkins said that was part of the
subdivision process. Aronson said there are specific trees there that have so much character and he said
he did not understand the swap off. Perkins said the tree can not be taken down unless there is no
feasible alternative and a smaller house is a feasible alternative. Aronson asked if they would be clearing
the land any closer to the ocean. Chu said no. He said Ann Thran gave them the DNR jurisdiction line so
they could find the toe of the dune. He said the dunes, of course, would not be touched. Tsoulos told
Aronson there are guidelines. She said this is a sketch plan and Chu will have to address many other
issues later. Honor Hutton read the Ordinance that says that subdivisions may not be staggered. Chu said
there is a way around it: if one corporation owns one, another corporation the other, and one develops
and the other waits three or four years. Cullen Chambers, Tybee Island Historical Society, said if there
was ever a piece of property and a historic structure that cried out to be left as it is, this would have
been the property. He said it is a historic raised summer cottage built equidistant between Butler Avenue,
the old railway route and the ocean. Chambers said Tybee is changing. He asked that anyone else who
has this significant type of property contact the Tybee Island Historical Society. Chambers said he could
not say that they could have afforded this purchase price but at least they would like the opportunity to
consider it to save part of Tybee’s heritage for future generations. Chambers commended Chu for
working diligently to save historic structures rather than tearing them down. He said Chu is one of the
few developers on the island that has gone the extra mile in order to save something, and that is better
than nothing. Chambers said from a historic preservation standpoint he has tried to visualize how the
house can be moved through the tree line without damaging significant trees and making it cost effective
to save something of that house. Chambers said his concern is a plan B should they not realistically move
that house. Frank Seiler asked Chu if he knew what oak trees he plans to take down. Chu said it is part of
a process and is going to take more than one meeting with an arborist. He said they will look at which
ones are diseased; there is a bay tree that is dead and two oak trees that probably can not be revived.
He said they are going to try to preserve the majority of it. Seiler said their cottage is on the corner of
Eighth and Butler. He said they are very happy there and intend to stay there as long as they can. Seiler
said he is extremely interested in the grove of oak trees. He said one of them is huge and overhangs his
lot and furnishes great shade. He said he has had the trees looked at and knows which ones are diseased
and which ones are not. Seiler said what he does not want to happen is the lots be developed one at a
time until Chu gets up to Butler and there goes the grove of oak trees. Chu said he is going to own lot 15
personally. Tom Waters distributed a tree survey. Chu said with taking lot 15 out of the equation there
should not be more than one or two trees that might have to come down. Tsoulos said she was letting
the tree discussion go on but it really was not before them tonight. Tsoulos closed the Hearing. Gene
Kindrick motioned to approve. Sandy Chandler seconded. Perkins asked if this was conceptual and later
they would have the actual site plan. Chu said that was correct. He said the actual plans will show
drainage, Tybee jurisdiction line, DNR jurisdiction line, elevation, water retention. Perkins said it would
thrill her for the plan to show the house moved over to lot 7. The vote to approve was six in favor with
Hutton opposed. Tsoulos told Chu he would come before City Council on June the 8th.
Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos opened the Public Hearing for Site Plan Approval at 1605 Inlet Avenue, Phil
O’Dell, Zone C-1, PIN 4-0008-17-001. Anderson said he spoke to O’Dell who is in Florida and his plans
have been submitted by his engineer. Anderson said Downer Davis has been in touch with the engineer
to get everything worked out. He said the driveway was removed as requested. Chuck Powell asked if it
was within their jurisdiction to recommend to City Council that if O’Dell does not act with 30 days he
must remove the structure. Anderson said O’Dell was waiting for his engineering which was completed
last week. He said the City’s engineer has reviewed it. Bill Garbett asked what use this building was going
to serve. Anderson said a walkup restaurant. Rachel Perkins asked if the engineer was at the meeting.
Anderson said no. Perkins said the packet did not show what the drainage plan is going to look like.
Anderson said it has a retention pond and that was why Davis recommended vegetation. Barry Brown
says it shows swales dropping in grade. Powell said he did not think Anderson represents O’Dell in this
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Hearing. He said he did not think they could have a Hearing and asked how long do they let this go on.
Sandy Chandler said he had a concern that there is a substantial roof not included on the footprint. He
said at the angle the building is setting the roof might come over the setback line. Anderson said there
are no setback lines because this is commercial. Garbett said the roof does overhang the footprint by 2
feet but if it is drawn correctly it appears to fit within the property line. Tsoulos asked if there was
anyone in the audience to speak in favor of or in opposition. Keith Gay said he was not there on behalf of
O’Dell. Gay said he spoke with O’Dell who was surprised Davis was requiring a holding pond for the
drainage given that the drainage issues that are there were there long before the building came in. Gay
said when this building was sitting on the property that he purchased there was a lot of feedback from
people wanting to make sure the building was not torn down. Gay said he knew there have been delays
and considerations but it is a perfect use of the building in that location: it is walkup traffic and the kind
of thing they have been trying to do in terms of development. He said he thinks it is an appropriate use
in that location and he would be disappointed if it was not approved. Anderson said Davis was here if
anybody had any questions on drainage. Perkins asked about the retention pond. Davis said they
proposed a retention area 2 to 2-1/2 feet deep. He said when they sized that they were looking at over
twice the impervious area because of the driveway. Davis said without the driveway the retention area
does not need to be that big. Perkins said she would like to see it wider and shallower; she is worried
about children falling in. Davis said it can be a risk. Davis said he asked them to look at groundcover in
the event of a torrential downpour. He said that because of the percolation it was an excellent place for a
retention basin. He said he is looking at appropriate ground cover to reduce mosquitoes and gnats. Davis
said they have addressed storm water retention. Davis said O’Dell’s engineer had no problems with his
comments. Tsoulos closed the Public Hearing. Perkins moved to approve. Garbett seconded. The vote
was six in favor with Powell opposed. Tsoulos said the petition would go before City Council on June 8.
Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos said next Henry Levy would speak to them about the Dark Sky Initiative.
Levy asked the Commissioners if they had received the model outdoor lighting. They had just received it
that night. Levy said he proposed this starting in January. He said City Council approved it unanimously
at their last meeting and asked that Planning Commission come back with it in a month. He said Council
started to commit to starting a different commission for it but he told them it is so simple and so outlined
that there is no reason why they can not give it to the Planning Commission who will probably
understand it better than anybody they appoint. Levy gave the history of the Dark Sky Initiative. Levy
said the only change the Planning Commission will have to make to the model ordinance is that it refers
to a Board of Selectmen and we have a City Council. Levy said being a Dark Sky community would allow
Tybee to see the stars and would allow Tybee to advertise it. He said there is no one on the eastern
seaboard that has adopted the Dark Sky Initiative. He said we could advertise ourselves as the only city
on the eastern seaboard where on a clear night you can see the Milky Way. He said it would also prevent
going from a very bright area to a very dark area. He said it also cuts down on the use of electricity. Levy
told the Commissioners that the proposed ordinance refers to grandfathering of non-conforming uses. He
said it is going to take some changes to put this into effect and if they are going to grandfather the uses
that are already there, they may as well forget the whole ordinance: they will never get a dark sky. Levy
talked about how the lights where he lives would need to be changed to keep them from shining in the
sky. He urged the Commissioners not to accept the grandfather clause. Sandy Chandler said the model
ordinance recommends that within 90 days of notification grandfathered luminaires be redirected, so in
essence the grandfathering does not mean anything like traditional grandfathering. Levy said it is only
luminaires that direct light toward streets or parking lots, that cause disability glare to motorists or
cyclists. He said you can have a light shining up on a sign that did not affect a street or parking lot and it
would be grandfathered. Levy urged them to take the grandfathering out of it. Rachel Perkins asked if
Levy was familiar with the Savannah Electric streetlights. Levy said some of the worst violators are the
streetlights but they can be shielded. Perkins said the biggest offender was the Pavilion. Barry Brown
asked about the lights in parking lots. Levy said lights could not be more than 25 feet high and could not
shine beyond the horizon. Brown asked how that effects the parking lots. Levy said fixtures can be
chosen that will shine in a precise area. Levy said he realized they needed to study this. He said he
pleads with them not to accept the grandfathering clause. Tsoulos suggested that if this was something
they possibly want to recommend to City Council they would need to have either another meeting of
Planning Commission or a subcommittee. Perkins suggested a subcommittee and to invite Levy and
others that are interested. Tsoulos said it would have to be advertised. Levy recommended that Charlie
Brewer, a representative from Savannah Electric, be invited. Chandler asked why the meeting would have
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to be advertised. Tsoulos said anytime Planning Commission meets and has a quorum it has to be
advertised. Gene Kindrick suggested reducing the number of people. Bill Garbett, Honor Hutton, Rachel
Perkins, and Chuck Powell volunteered to serve on the subcommittee. It was decided to meet May 30,
2006 at 7:00 p.m. at City Hall and to invite Charlie Brewer.
Barry Brown said some of the drawings people are submitting need to be drawn by professionals. He said
if people are asking for variances proper drawings are needed to protect the City’s best interest. Brown
said since we do not have an after-the-fact survey, there needs to be somebody up front that is going to
take responsibility for the drawing. He said it could cost a little bit of money but at the same time there
are people coming up for variances and Planning Commission can not decide without proper drawings.
Chairperson Lawanna Tsoulos asked if Brown was speaking to variances and remodeling. Brown said he
was speaking about individuals. He gave an example of a recent case that was not done professionally.
Rachel Perkins said there are people that are quite intelligent and know how to take measurements. She
said she would hesitate to make it a requirement that everybody has to pay a professional. Sandy
Chandler said yes, but an individual’s drawing is not certified. Brown said some things are perceived to be
there but they are not on the drawings and then things get by because they are not on the drawings, and
then they go back to the wording of how something was passed. Perkins said it needed to be done case
by case. Brown said there are no as-builts. Bill Garbett said he agreed with Brown as far as the poor
quality of some of the items being presented. He said he agreed with Perkins in that some individuals are
able to do them. He said it certainly has to be legible. He gave examples of a couple of recent cases.
Garbett said perhaps they could specify a scale. Chandler gave another example. Tsoulos asked if they
wanted to make a recommendation to Council. Brown said on large developments it is a given. Tsoulos
said they are not speaking to those; they are speaking to the smaller ones. Chandler said the site plan
really needs to have all the elements in place. Tsoulos said commercial ones do. Brown said commercial
ones and large developments do well. He said the problem comes when individuals try to sketch a site
plan. Chuck Powell asked if it would satisfy everybody if they recommend to City Council that site plans
be drawn to scale. Powell said if it is not right at the Agenda Meeting that is when they have the chance
to correct it. Brown said it needs to be done by a licensed surveyor. Tsoulos asked Dee Anderson when
people come to staff for a variance do they have to bring a survey of their property. Anderson said they
have to have a survey. He said some people have surveys that are 20 years old. He said there is no
ordinance; they can make it an office policy that more professional drawings are required. Tsoulos asked
Brown if petitioners come to staff and then to Planning Commission with a building addition clearly
marked on a current survey would that be satisfactory. Brown said the as-built requirement did not start
until three or four years ago so a lot of people are coming in for variances that do not have an as-built
survey. He said they are assuming that dimensions are correct, and in order to protect the City there
needs to be a survey of the property in its present state. Anderson gave an example from last year.
Anderson said they have to have a survey to get a building permit so they are going to incur the
expense. Brown said unfortunately it is going to cost money but it lets everybody know what is there.
Anderson said if somebody brings in a survey that is too old they are told to get a more current survey.
Chandler said staff should be making the determination. Anderson said the only Ordinances that address
drawings are the Tree Ordinance, which says the tree survey can be hand drawn, and the subdivision
sketch plan which can be hand drawn. He said they can make it a staff policy that hand drawings are not
acceptable. Garbett asked Brown if that was satisfactory. Brown said staff can screen it before it gets to
Planning Commission; try it and see if it works. He said they are ultimately going to have to come to the
as-built to make sure everybody’s backs are covered. Perkins said she is adamantly against requiring
everybody to have a survey done by a professional for every aspect. Anderson said this would only be if
somebody does not have a survey. He said there is a big misconception; people think they own to the
blacktop. Chandler recommended that Anderson be the one to determine it. Anderson said the Planning
Commission holds an Agenda Meeting and the purpose of the meeting is to make sure the Commissioners
have what they want to make a decision. Tsoulos said if someone brings something that the
Commissioners are not comfortable with that is the time to ask them to have somebody draw it to scale.
Chandler said people are confused about what the Commissioners want. Anderson said staff has already
decided that when someone submits an application for Planning Commission they will be required to
schedule a meeting to sit down and make sure everything is there.
Gene Kindrick motioned to adjourn. Barry Brown seconded. The vote was unanimous.