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HomeMy Public PortalAbout20130820_PC_Minutes.pdf 1 PLANNING COMMISSION CITY MANAGER Demery Bishop Diane Schleicher Tom Borkowski Marianne Bramble PLANNING & ZONING MANAGER Rob Callahan Dianne Otto, CFM Tyler Marion, Vice Chair David McNaughton CITY ATTORNEY Monty Parks, Chair Edward M. Hughes MINUTES Planning Commission Meeting August 20, 2013 – 7:00 p.m. Chair Monty Parks called the August 20, 2013, Tybee Island Planning Commission meeting to order. Commissioners present were Marianne Bramble, David McNaughton, Rob Callahan, Demery Bishop, Tyler Marion, and Tom Borkowski. Mr. Parks – The first order of business is the minutes of the July 16, 2013, meeting. Do I have any discussion on the minutes? [There was none.] Do I have a motion? [Mr. Bishop made a motion to approve as written; Mr. Borkowski seconded.] All those in favor please signify. [The vote was unanimous.] No disclosures or recusals. Special Review – Sherry Stipp & Cindy Sukal – 21 Officers Row Ms. Otto – This is a Special Review for 21 Officers Row. In April of this year consideration was given to opening a bed & breakfast at that location and in May the City Council approved it. They are up and running and are requesting to be able to have special events as outlined in the bed & breakfast ordinance. The code section is 3-060(A)(9) and it does allow special events up to 20 people with approval by the Mayor and Council. In your packet is a narrative describing the intent for these events. They would all end by 10:00 PM. Mr. Parks – Any questions for staff? Mr. McNaughton – Has an interest in the property been conveyed to Cindy Sukal, who I believe is a resident? Ms. Otto – I noted on this application that the ownership did change from previously being Sherry and her husband to now the two sisters. We can ask the applicant when she comes forward if that has been a legal change or not. Mr. Bishop – In addition to the current parking for the residents that were previously approved at the bed & breakfast, would there be additional requirements for parking of the up to 20 individuals that might be in attendance? Ms. Otto – The section on special events does not say that you have to provide additional parking. It does require a parking plan. My conversation with one of the applicants was that her anticipation would be the same people renting the guest units will be the participants at the special events. There was no increase in parking demand. Mr. Borkowski – On these types of bed & breakfasts, food service is limited to breakfast for guests only and be served between the hours of 5 AM until noon and an afternoon snack. Under no circumstances will an alcoholic beverage license be issued. The type of events they are talking about having until 10 PM, especially if they are having a party, anniversary, or something else, I would expect that alcohol would be a part of it. How does that fit in and go along with the food stipulations for the residential bed and breakfast because this is a residential area? 2 Ms. Otto – The special event section of this code would foresee that a special event will have food. Because it is a residential bed & breakfast, alcohol prohibition would be in place. They could not seek an alcohol license to be able to serve beer, wine, or liquor at these special events. Mr. Borkowski – Does that limit people from loading up a truckload of stuff and bringing it in to their party? Ms. Otto – No. It would not limit a person bringing in their own alcohol. It would limit the owners of the bed & breakfast from providing alcohol to their guests. Mr. Borkowski – To me that defeats the purpose the way the code is written. Ms. Otto – That may, in your opinion, be that way. That would be as if I was on vacation, if I chose to go to the liquor store and buy some alcohol and take it with me wherever I went, it would be within my right to do so. What it is saying in the ordinance is that the City is not going to issue an alcohol license for the business to serve drinks. Mr. Borkowski – I agree if I was taking it to my condominium or hotel room. If they are not going to have a license to serve alcohol that is just a way around the ruling. I disagree with you. Ms. Bramble – Did they submit a parking plan? Ms. Otto – There is not a separate parking plan for the special event that they are requesting this evening. The same parking plan that was provided when the bed & breakfast was approved addressed the parking requirements per rental unit and for the owners. The expectation is that the same people that are parking in the spaces that are renting the guest units will be the same people participating in the special events for less than 20 people. Ms. Bramble – The bed & breakfast can house up to 20 people? Ms. Otto – There are six guest rooms; I don’t know the occupancy of the beds within them. If they all had 2 people that would only be 12 people. Mr. McNaughton – If the only people participating in the special events are guests, then why would they come before us with an application for a special event? Ms. Otto – This is a specific part of that ordinance that requires approval in order to have these events. Otherwise it would not be allowed to have a gathering of the people staying at the bed & breakfast as a group activity or special event out in the yard or around the pool or wherever they chose to have the activity. Ms. Bramble – The Special Review is approving it for special event permits not to exceed 20 people at a wedding or anniversary or whatever it might be. I don’t see enough parking around there. On any holiday you go around the park and you can barely go down that road. Ms. Otto – Our parking calculation would be 4 people per vehicle, you are talking 5 cars. If she has 6 rooms, she has those people in their parking spaces from having rented the rooms. Mr. Parks – Are there other questions for staff? [There were none.] Do we have anybody who represents the bed & breakfast? Cindy Sukal came forward and introduced herself. My sister, Sherry, and I have opened the bed & breakfast. Mr. Marion – Can you state the ownership of the inn? Did it indeed change hands? Can you give us an idea of what your special events will be? Will it be Christmas, holidays, weddings, or what types of events? Are these events going to 3 be closed or are they for a specific amount of people? Are they for profit or is it something you do out of the kindness of your heart for the people staying there? Ms. Sukal – It would be for profit. It would be a holiday party for a corporation if they rent the inn or an anniversary party if a whole family rents the inn. We are going to follow all the rules as to 20 people or less. It’s not going to be wild, crazy parties because that’s not what the inn is all about. It’s a very quiet, peaceful atmosphere. On the ownership, Sherry has taken the steps to put my name on it and I do live there. We have 5 rooms but we sleep 12. On an anniversary there may be some people that may not be able to stay all night. We will not use any more parking places than what we have. If someone else has to park, they are going to have to park at the North Beach parking lot where there is plenty of room. It’s a short walk to the inn. Ms. Bramble – You have just taken ownership of the bed & breakfast? Ms. Sukal – Yes. Ms. Bramble – Have you lived on Tybee? Ms. Sukal – A year and a half and I work at AJ’s. Ms. Bramble – So you understand the seasons here? Ms. Sukal – Yes. Ms. Bramble – I’m really skeptical on this parking for special events, family parties, and people that are coming in on holidays. During the off-season I don’t know if it would be a real issue for parking. I know we say 4 people per car but that is not the way it works. Everyone will come in their separate vehicle to the gathering. Ms. Sukal – The parking at North Beach is not even a block from our bed & breakfast, and there is a path and you can cut through. There could be 20 people but that is not our intention. If there are people that don’t stay at the inn, they may have to park down there and we will make it very clear to anybody that is not a guest at the inn. Ms. Bramble – You point out that they are going to North Beach parking. I have already seen one time when the Art Association was having one of their art shows and I carried in some food to the art show and there were two people getting into two vehicles. When I moved my car to the far end of the park so the tourists and guests could park, I drove around the road and those two vehicles were then parked in your parking lot loading luggage. They evidently parked during the night in the Art Association’s parking lot, not the North Beach parking lot. Is it clear to guests that they park in North Beach? Ms. Sukal – When was that? Ms. Bramble – This summer; it was a July show. Ms. Sukal – We were not even open yet. Ms. Bramble - There was somebody packing up there. Maybe they were staying at the other cottages that are close. Ms. Sukal – I don’t know. Ms. Bramble – Parking is an issue there. 4 Mr. Bishop – Let me first say that having been a part of the original group that reviewed this for a bed & breakfast, it is a remarkable improvement. Having gone back subsequent to when we were first there, it truly is absolutely remarkable. What additional lighting, signage, or other types of buffering, to ensure there are no problems to the abutting landowners, are you anticipating? Ms. Sukal – We have one sign on the building which is where the sign was originally. I have no intentions of putting up any others unless it would be a small hanging sign in the front yard that maybe says Surf Song, something very small on a wrought iron post. Lighting, we have no intention of doing anything different with the lighting than what we have already. Mr. Bishop – Are there plans for any types of buffers since you have residential abutting on both sides? Ms. Sukal – We have privacy fences on both sides. We don’t have any intentions of doing anything else. We have planted trees on both sides that are supposed to grow very fast and large, approximately one foot a year, so that should help too. Other than that we weren’t intending on doing anything else. Mr. Bishop – Dianne, the current buffers would be consistent with what is required by the city as far as the abutting property owners for privacy, noise, and things of that nature? Ms. Otto – This code section doesn’t outline any more specific buffering, it just says the word ‘buffering’. What she was describing was the buffers that were required for the bed & breakfast for commercial use abutting residential uses. In my opinion they are adequate. I don’t know that much more could be done. They run the full length of both sides. She has a huge front yard that is not abutting, for a long distance, any other residences. In the back is where the vehicles are parked so there wouldn’t be people in that area for these special events. I am satisfied with the buffering but all of you need to be as well. Mr. Parks – Other questions for the applicant at this time? [There were none.] Do we have anybody from the public that would like to address this issue? Kevin Sofa came forward and introduced himself. I am a Tybee resident and I live in Seashore Colony. I am the president of the Seashore Colony Homeowner’s Association. We didn’t have enough time to canvas all of our homeowners but I was in contact with all of our board members just basically on this issue. For the record we did not oppose the new owners turning the building into a bed & breakfast. I agree you have done a great job; the place looks good. Seeing it on the web the inside looks very good too. Unfortunately I am a little bit of a pessimist here. If they are saying they are just going to do parties, graduations, and things like that, in my heart I have this feeling that it will turn into a destination wedding place where people come and rent the bed & breakfast. The bridal party will be in the bed & breakfast and the rest of the members are going to be in other places on Tybee. I can picture a beach wedding and on the grass lawn in front of the house, they will have a party tent with a band, and the caterer will be serving food, beer, and wine. Call me a pessimist but I really think that is what is going to happen here. Mr. Parks – If I lived next to that I would be concerned too. Dianne, is a tent allowed? Is a caterer with beer and wine allowed? Is a band? Ms. Otto – Yes. All of those would be allowed. Mr. Sofa – For the record, at Seashore Colony, we have Wrenwood Drive and we actually own the next 16 feet from Wrenwood Drive towards Officers Row. The Officers Row people don’t actually have access to Wrenwood Drive. We do allow all of the Officers Row people to use our roads to walk to the beach, use our crossovers, we are fine and have no issues with that. For the most part we don’t let them park on Wrenwood Drive. This is something we have gotten control over the last couple of years and we’re not going to give it up. For the record, we would not let them use Wrenwood Drive. I’ve seen in the past, trucks with equipment and chairs, crossing our property to get to their property 5 to set up for these big events. We don’t want this in our neighborhood. We don’t think it is fitting in this residential neighborhood. We really think that turning a residential bed & breakfast into a party machine just doesn’t fit what we are actually trying to do. I can picture every Saturday night a big wedding out on the grass. Mr. Parks – I think each event has to have a permit. Ms. Otto – No. Mr. Sofa – Once you get this permit you are covered. Who would we turn to if there is more than 20 people, if they are staying up after 10 PM? Who do we, as the homeowners in Seashore Colony, go to complain to? Mr. Parks – Tybee Police Department. Ms. Otto – Yes, for noise, parking, and more than 20 guests. Mr. Sofa – They are not going to count people. Ms. Otto – Yes, we do count people. Noise, number of people, and parking would be the three items the police could address. Mr. Sofa – Thank you for your time. Walker Beeson came forward and introduced himself. I am a Tybee resident living in Seashore Colony - almost across the street from this. These people have just started this bed & breakfast and it is beautiful; we are very happy with the way it looks. We had some bad experiences with the previous bed & breakfast that was there and all of these issues that Kevin has talked about became fact. Once you open something up then it becomes our responsibility to call the police every time something isn’t going right. Bringing in catering trucks doesn’t fit the spirit of this ordinance which says there are no meals after breakfast. There is a separate ordinance for commercial bed & breakfasts; this is a residential bed & breakfast. Teresa Bannon came forward and introduced herself. I live next door. I am also very skeptical because when she and her sister first introduced themselves and I said that I was concerned because of the problems in the past. They assured me there would be no weddings or events and they were not going to do that. This is a large disappointment to me that they go this quickly to the events and weddings. Also, during July they rented to families and had many people there and I’m sure there wasn’t enough parking. This is when you run into problems. I live next door and I did see them unload, and I’m not being critical of drinking, but they unloaded a lot of beer and they drank a lot of beer and they made a lot of noise in the pool. There were a lot of people in the pool. I was also told there wouldn’t be children in the pool. There were children of every age from six months to 18. I’m just disappointed; it’s not how it was presented to me in the first place. Peter Bannon came forward and introduced himself. I live at 19 Officers Row. My wife has just spoken. A lot of us have the same concerns. I would like to say that this is a rather awkward site for a bed & breakfast. It’s on a crown berm; it has never had any good parking. The Planning Commission years ago, when the previous owners opened this up as a bed & breakfast, allowed them to make parking spaces on top of the crown berm which never worked. For the entire time nobody could get up there and every Crown Vic that came in bottomed out. We were picking coral rock out of our yard and I’m still picking it out of our yard. They have been very good so far about the parking. What happened was when there wasn’t an owner or somebody there, which was happening with the last owner, they would just park anywhere. We have a very sensitive right of way at the end of Officers Row coming down the hill. This is an emergency right-of-way for all of those houses coming and going. If they don’t strictly abide by the parking diagram that you saw, an emergency vehicle couldn’t get in or out from that place. What you will hear from other people tonight is we supported the bed & breakfast as a residential bed & breakfast hoping it was going to change; there wasn’t going to be 6 all of this activity there. They had reduced the number of rooms to five. They cut out the whole downstairs and made it the owner’s living space which they had a closet as living space the last time. Everything was going just the way it was supposed to. Sherry assured us she knew all the problems with the parking and the events and there would be no such events at this bed & breakfast. We came to City Council supporting this because they had promised no events and now here we are. They fixed the problem for a residential bed & breakfast of owner occupied with the idea of this being their primary residence, they live there. They have opened some of the rooms in their home to visitors. The owners, the sister and her husband, are not going to live there. They brought her in to do this and now they have changed the ownership so I guess it is legal. I wondered about that when it was first approved that they knew the owners were never going to live there, only the sister. Walter Peck came forward and introduced himself. I live directly across the street at 119 Cedarwood Avenue. I have had some problems with picking up beer cans, drink bottles, and trash from my yard since this place opened. I have also had a noise problem, with 12 or 14 children jumping from their porch into the pool. I had an issue with the swimming pool which was filled up approximately three weeks before they put the fence up. I am a certified building inspector and I know that certainly doesn’t meet the national, state, and local codes. We were promised that this wouldn’t transpire back six months ago or whenever it was. This has all taken place and I have had some issues with parking already in my yard. I’ve had people coming in to work on their stuff, Comcast and several different ones, not just one, parking in my yard and going across the street to do their work. I have had to threaten to call the police on two or three occasions already. The littering pretty much came in one week when there was a large group from Michigan and every morning I had to police up beer cans, soft drink bottles, paper cups, and plastic cups and this went on all week. Mr. Parks – I’ve got a question for the people. Do you have any one person that would be willing to come up? Kevin Sofa returned to the lectern. Mr. Parks – If we were to ask them to cut back on the hours to maybe 9 PM or some other restriction, increase the buffering, is there any compromise that can be done? Mr. Sofa – Is that legal? Mr. Parks – We can send it to Council with recommendations, this is a Special Review. Mr. Sofa – How do you tell them what they can or can’t do once you tell them they can do it? Ms. Otto – Under Special Review, conditions can be imposed by the Mayor and Council, this is not Site Plan Approval which does not allow that. If conditions were imposed, they would be bound to cooperate with this. Mr. Sofa – If what they said, when they started out here tonight, little parties, the people staying in the bed & breakfast, no extra cars, we would not have a problem with that. How do you keep it from getting into more of a commercial event? That is our concern. Mr. Parks – Do we have anybody else that would like to speak to this issue? [There were none.] Ms. Sukal – During the summer we used the home before we opened the bed & breakfast on August 1st. We used the home as a vacation rental and I was not there because we didn’t have to be there. There are a number of homes on Officers Row that are vacation homes. I didn’t police the property every day or anything like that. What those people did was not anything to do with me but when I’m there those kinds of things don’t happen. I do know we did have issues with the parking when we were doing our construction. I just wanted everybody to know that we were not there during that time. A number of those houses are vacation rentals and it is out of our control during that time but it is not going to be anymore. We really do not want to do weddings. We may have people stay at the inn as a wedding group but we are not doing weddings and have no intentions of doing weddings whatsoever. 7 Mr. Parks – Are there any other questions? [There were none.] At this time I will close the public hearing. I’m open to discussion or a motion. Ms. Bramble – This is so common on Tybee because there is no residential area on Tybee that does not have seasonal rentals in the R-1 area. We are very lucky to live on Tybee and people want to come here and everybody wants to live here. Everything that she is asking for is permitted at her bed & breakfast. We don’t have a lighting ordinance. Should she have a lighting plan for the special events, I think so. I think she should have a parking plan, they require that at private parking lots to have a surveyed parking plan. I think she should have this too. Mr. Parks – Actually I think she is allowed to do this after this Special Review. Ms. Bramble – As a Special Review we can ask her to have a parking plan. Mr. Parks – I believe we can send that recommendation onto Council if that is how this group so moves. Mr. Marion – This is directed to staff. Are we setting any type of precedence by taking a bed & breakfast and allowing an event option to be on the table that they could utilize for the duration of however long they are in business? Is there anybody else doing that? There are various people throughout the island that I can think of that have a bed & breakfast. Do they have events approval? Ms. Otto – There are at least one and perhaps two; I would have to check the records. I know of at least one other that has gone through this process and been approved and I believe there is a second as well. Mr. Marion – Do we have any knowledge as to historically how these ventures have fared in the other neighborhoods? Ms. Otto – I’ve not heard of any reports or issues. This Special Event ordinance was actually created in response to issues prior to there being an ordinance when there was a free-for-all that it wasn’t a regulated activity at the bed & breakfasts and there was nothing to say they couldn’t have them. By adoption of the ordinance, it did put the restriction of the number of people that can participate and it gave discretion for the city to impose hours of operation to control when they occurred, whereas before the ordinance it occurred with no regulations. Mr. Borkowski – It appears you have two different types of bed & breakfasts. One is a residential where basically the purpose and usage is for people to stay overnight in a home-like atmosphere and these are in residential areas and are expected to be quiet and honor those particular people that live around them. Then you have the other which is a bed & breakfast inn which is a more commercial type of enterprise which is designed to have parties, meetings, and stuff like that. This was voted in, and I wasn’t on the commission at that time, as a residential enterprise and now it is basically being requested to change the usage of the facility in a highly residential area. I don’t agree with doing that because you open it to parties where people can bring in a tent and a band. Mr. Parks – I’m sensing a motion here. Mr. Borkowski – I make a motion that we disapprove it. Mr. Bishop – I would like to redirect to staff. In the event, hypothetically, if a residential bed & breakfast has five units, two of those units would like to have a special event and three of those units are not part of the special event. If I read the Land Development Code correctly, “…small special events permitted not to exceed 20 guests.” In the hypothetical that I just proposed, the two units that are going to have the special event together could have up to 20 guests. The other three that are not part of that special event could have whatever the maximum capacity of those rooms in the bed and breakfast. Let’s assume they could each sleep four which is an additional 12 individuals that could be on site not affiliated with the special event. The two that are affiliated would then have up to the maximum of 20, including the 8 guests staying at the bed and breakfast, so potentially, as I am interpreting this, there could be an excess of 30 individuals at the bed & breakfast on a given day. To me, that possibly violates the spirit and intention of the “…not to exceed 20 guests”, is that correct? Ms. Otto – Yes, your description is potentially correct. The special event activity could not have more than 20 but there could be other guests staying at the bed & breakfast that are not participating. Mr. Bishop – Or attending the special event and not necessarily staying there, is that correct? Ms. Otto – Correct. Mr. Bishop – If you had one room with two people for a special event with eighteen invitees and the other four rooms are occupied by four non-special event attendees, that is sixteen additional. We could very quickly and easily exceed 20 guests on premises, so that does take us beyond the scope of limiting it to 20 people. Ms. Otto – The intent is not saying there wouldn’t be more than 20 people at the property, it’s saying there wouldn’t be more than 20 people at the event. Mr. Bishop – With those additional people attending at that location, there could be additional noise, litter, and requirements for parking elsewhere other than the premises. Ms. Otto – Theoretically, yes. Ms. Bramble – I second the motion. Mr. Parks – I thought when we were reviewing it was 20 guests at the bed and breakfast. If there were 12 other people in the rooms, and one room wanted a special event, they could have eight. Ms. Otto – No. Mr. Parks – Theoretically if there are five rooms and each wants to have 20, that’s probably taking the argument to the extreme, but that’s 100 people. I thought when we were discussing this that there were 20 people on site. Ms. Otto – The 20 people at a special event is a limited number of people. There are not a limited number of people staying in the five guest rooms. Mr. Parks – Is there any other discussion? [There was none.] I have a motion to deny and a second. All those in favor please signify. [Vote was unanimous.] Site Plan Approval – 78 Van Horn – Consideration of new public safety facility Ms. Otto – This location at 78 Van Horn is construction proposed in the parking lot adjacent to the current police department. It would be a phased plan to get under construction and then demolition for the existing police department. It is before you with the City of Tybee Island as petitioner. This is on city property and is zoned R-1 and is in the North End Overlay. The plan before you is a site plan and it does show all required parking spaces onsite and does provide for three trees that need to be removed. Your staff report outlines some of the other finer points of this. Mr. Callahan – Are they going to need an interim parking plan? Ms. Otto – It is not required that they provide an interim parking plan. Knowing what they are going to be up against I’m sure other city properties will be used for the storage of equipment and vehicles. 9 Mr. Parks – I appreciated the time prior to this meeting to be able to review some of the questions I had. They were answered completely and very satisfactorily. Mr. Borkowski – When is this supposed to be completed, what is the target date? Ms. Otto – Let’s have the folks here speak to that. Mr. Callahan – This property is currently zoned R-1? Ms. Otto – Yes, it is. It is city owned property but it is in an R-1 zone with the North End Public overlay on top of it. Mr. Callahan – Should we change the zoning at this time? Ms. Otto – I believe the intent, when the overlay was put in place, was to allow development of these city properties under the overlay standards even though it is in the R-1 zone. The overlay is not a district; it is just an overlay on top of this zoning district. When it was adopted, it was opted to leave R-1 but put an overlay on it so the public portions of it can be developed. Ms. Callahan – It seems like R-1 is the wrong zoning for this. Ms. Otto – Granted, without the overlay this would be a challenge. Mr. Bishop – In Site Plan Approval, do we also need to have drainage plans for the property? Ms. Otto – Typically, yes. The code actually requires at the Planning Commission stage that the engineers on both sides be working towards final approval of a drainage plan and that be accepted prior to the City Council meeting. This particular project, it is anticipated when Council reviews it, if their motion is to approve it, will be contingent upon proper drainage plans being provided because they are currently not at that point where they are available. Mr. Bishop – If council approves it, will that drainage come back to us? Ms. Otto – It would not. Mr. Parks – Other questions for staff? [There were none.] Is there anyone representing this project that would like to speak? Wanda Doyle came forward and introduced herself. I am Mayor pro tem and I’m also the chairperson of our Public Safety Committee and have been for almost 4 years. Just a little background, this started in 2003 with an assessment study of the police facility and we had another one in 2007 where we had an ad hoc committee. We did another assessment study and looked at 2 locations which were Memorial Park and the existing facility. The council voted to keep it in the same location. We had public hearings and there were many disgruntled residents around Memorial Park that did not want the public safety facility in Memorial Park. We got nothing but cheers from the area where it is now. The people that live there like it there, they feel safe, and they feel comfortable. In 2010, the Mayor requested that we start a Public Safety Committee. Shirley Sessions, myself, and another council member were appointed to that committee and I have been the chair ever since. We have SPLOST funds that we hope is going to take care of this building so we don’t have to borrow any money. We had many challenges. We had to get an environmental group to do borings and check to ensure there are no environmental issues because we do have a fuel tank in the ground. It had been inspected in 1994 but to be on the safe side we felt like we needed to go through that process which prolonged the process of actually getting an architect. We picked Greenline, who is represented here this evening, and they can answer any questions you have. We visited a lot of facilities but the one we always went back to was the police facility in Richmond Hill. This police facility is modeled a lot by it but if you look at the drawings from Greenline, we feel like it is 10 a Ft. Screven look and will fit in quite well in that area. Part of this facility will have a multi-purpose court room/Planning Commission/City Council chamber which we thought needed to be a part of this building. When we went through this process we picked Greenline Architects to design the building and we had to decide what kind of construction method we were going to use. We looked at the methods with the help of Greenline and we picked what is called ‘construction manager at risk’. When we put the RFP out, we received 16 proposals and narrowed it down to 5. The group that we picked for that process is Elkins Construction and they are also in the room tonight to answer any questions. I’m here as a cheerleader just to say this has been a long time coming, I respect all of you in your position, and the sooner we can get through this Site Plan the sooner we can move on. If everything goes okay, with all of the obstacles we have been faced with, and so many infrastructures on that property, we will break ground hopefully by the first week in December. The project will take about 8 months; we will be finished around May or June. We have already had a lot of design meetings and these people are on top of their game. They have been very helpful to move this process along. We will have some type of groundbreaking and will certainly let all of you know about it. I appreciate your service to Tybee and thank you for everything you do. I would appreciate your support and cooperation in allowing us to get this approved to move forward with this public safety facility. Mr. Parks – Any questions for applicant at this time? [There were none.] Ms. Doyle – I would like for Greenline and Elkins to come up and introduce themselves. Mr. Bishop – Wanda, I want to congratulate all of you on the design and involvement. With my law enforcement career spanning over 40 years, I’ve had the opportunity to participate in the development of certain public safety facilities to include police departments as well as federal offices. I know the task that you had to go through over the course of the years; this doesn’t happen overnight. One of the questions that I would ask, in the evidence storage area, in today’s environment we are dealing with non-traditional aspects of evidence collection. With Tybee being a destination and also for being a potential target for the nuclear, biological, and chemical aspects that we have in today’s criminal justice environment, is there a means by which you anticipate there would be a segregated area to handle that type of contaminated material should it be located or discovered as part of an evidence or a case? This would include HIV, any type of terroristic activities, ricin, or other things that would not put staff, other officers, and our Chatham Emergency Management individuals at risk. Douglas Roberts with Greenline Architecture came forward and introduced himself. I’m serving as the Project Manager for the job. Through our programming sessions, talking with the Chief about their needs, and touring the other facilities, that wasn’t something that ever came up so at this point we haven’t addressed any kind of special evidence storage. There are a few rooms in front of the evidence storage for evidence processing and receiving. At this point we are roughing in for that equipment because it is a need they don’t have right away. In that evidence processing room, there will be special equipment to help make determinations. In terms of actually storing, isolating, and dealing with environmental conditions, that is not being addressed now. That would be something we certainly could look into but it hasn’t been a formal part of the program for the building to this point. Mr. Bishop – The reason I bring that up is the IACP, about 2 years ago, that was one of their structural aspects on new design because of the way the law enforcement’s mission has changed today. In discussions with the Chief and the Major, there certainly seems to be ample area to handle that and I think that is something that would be looked at in the evidence storage aspect just to ensure that should that happen it could be contained here and not rely on others that have those capabilities. Secondly, the sally port, is that a traditional sally port so that anyone brought in would be secured as they enter? Mr. Roberts – Yes. On the site plan, we have a one-way drive that goes around to the back of the building and would go through that sally port. There will be a security fence at the corner of the building before you get there that would limit only officers to pull through. There would be a door on each end of the sally port so they can pull in and make sure the doors are closed before they pull anyone out of the car. That is not a fully enclosed space; we are extending the roof out and then most of the sides will be a chain link structure that will be secure but it won’t be enclosed conditions. 11 Mr. Bishop – Is it going to be secure enough not to allow ingress or egress into the administrative area? Mr. Roberts – Yes. We are planning a meeting in the next week with a security consultant to determine where we will have mag locks versus hardware, what kind of access control will we have whether it is cards, fobs, or punch codes. This is something we are still working on. Mr. Parks – I’ve heard discussion of this being treated as a ‘when the flood comes’ type building. Can you walk me through how this might help in a storm? Ms. Schleicher – It is being built to the required FEMA standards. It was always determined that if we get a hurricane category 2 that we are all leaving because there is not a building on this island that can withstand anything higher. To build something to a category 4, no one could afford. Ms. Otto – In addition to the FEMA requirement it will include the one foot freeboard that Tybee imposes. Mr. Parks – Does the one foot freeboard meet all three of the flood elevations that go through this property? Ms. Otto – There are more than three elevations. I believe they range from 11 to 17. This site doesn’t have all of those on there. It will meet the required elevation for its flood zone plus one foot. John Giordano with Thomas and Hutton introduced himself. We are a sub consultant to Greenline. There are three flood zones that are on the site. We are doing the one foot freeboard above the highest flood zone that the building is in. Mr. Parks – I didn’t see a total height. What is the highest spot? Mr. Giordano – On the site or the building? Mr. Parks – The building. Mr. Roberts – We are setting the floor level of the building at 13 feet about grade. If you look at the building on the far left [referring to drawings], the courtroom will have the highest height; I think the ceiling height is about 17 feet. You are probably looking at 26 or 27 feet above floor level. Mr. Parks – We are below 35 feet. Mr. Roberts – Yes. Mr. Callahan – What did you say finished floor elevation was? Mr. Roberts – The finished floor is 13. On the site right now, the three flood zones are 11, 12, and 13. The 13 is in the northeast corner of the site and it barely crosses. The building is in the 11 and 12 so we are taking the 12 to be the worst case and adding the one foot of freeboard to be at 13 feet. Ms. Doyle – There will be 2 buildings that will be demolitioned. We have been working to clear the old parking meters and things out of the old ceramic building. That will be the first building which will open an area for construction and parking for these guys. The small building on the left side of the police facility will come down as well because we’re going to need that room to construct the building. Once that is done, the current police facility is functional until we move into the new building and then the other one will be torn down. We will be recycling the materials; the concrete that comes down will go to Green Acres Recycling. We plan on doing as much as we can on recycling. We also know 12 about saving energy and we are going to incorporate as much as we possibly can that fits within our budget. We will be doing everything towards a LEED certification and be as energy efficient as possible. The other person that is on this team is John McDonald from Elkins Construction and I would like to introduce him. If you are not familiar with construction manager at risk process, and if you have questions about it, he can address that. Mr. Callahan – Can you explain what that is and confirm what I heard about an 8-month construction schedule? John McDonald came forward and introduced himself. I am with Elkins Constructors and the Construction Manager at Risk hired to build the building. The construction manager at risk is a competitive qualification based on a selection process versus a hard bid which is based on lump sum price. There is still a competitive bidding section within that project delivery but it is done on the subcontracting side. What we are here to do is help facilitate the design and make sure you are getting the most bang for your buck during the design and preconstruction period of the project. Yes, we plan on building it in 8 months but we actually think we can build it in 7 months and then use the final month of the construction period to demolish the existing police building and finish the parking lot. Mr. McNaughton – Where does the risk come in? Mr. McDonald – After the bidding period and at the end of preconstruction process, we are required to provide what is called a guaranteed maximum price. That guaranteed maximum price is a containment of the project scope and it is an insurance that you are not going to get additional costs throughout the construction as you would like a cost plus fee type of scenario. Mr. McNaughton – You would be responsible for any extra costs? Mr. McDonald – Yes. We would be responsible for any additional costs that were not related to additions requested by the owner. Ms. Bramble – I think it looks good. You are also guaranteeing the time and the subcontracting bids coming to you? Would you approve the bids or does the City Council? Mr. McDonald – We are guaranteeing the 8 months schedule; that is in our contract which is being backed by a payment performance bond. I believe incorporated into that is damages of $500 a day that is attached to that schedule so there is incentive not to go over. During the bidding process we solicit bids through the subcontracting market and collect them; it is an open book process. We would open all bids in front of the Public Safety Committee and provide a recommendation on whom to subcontract and whom to hire for each of the trades and be approved by the Public Safety Committee. Ms. Bramble – You send out all the bids to subcontractors, even to New York, that could actually send a bid that could bring a team down here to work 8 months? Mr. McDonald – There are two ways you can do it. You can prequalify subcontractors, including from the State of New York, or collect all the bids and have a selection process where you would have some of the softer criteria incorporated into the decision. You would have quality of company, their financial status, and obviously the price they are proposing to do the work. Ms. Bramble – The time clock is going to start when you break ground? Mr. McDonald – At the notice to proceed. Ms. Bramble – That is when? 13 Mr. McDonald – Right now it is scheduled for December 3rd. Ms. Doyle – One of the things with Elkins Construction is they are very experienced and good at what they do with this construction manager at risk. We talked to them numerous times about the pre-qualifying and of using as many people in the local area as possible and they are in agreement. If some of you have time to do some reading, you might want to get a copy of their contract. It is very detailed and it does spell out everything that John is talking about. One of the reasons we went with the construction manager at risk is because Greenline recommended it and told us why. We looked at all the other processes but because once you get started on December 3rd, after seven or eight months, you are done. There is a guaranteed maximum price and we feel very comfortable with Elkins and Greenline, working together with the City, to make this work. Mr. Marion – Was there anything within the confines of the property lines that is deemed historical in nature? Ms. Doyle – I know the Historical Preservation Committee looked at this so Cullen may be able to address that. Cullen Chambers came forward and introduced himself. I am the Historic Preservation Advisor to the Tybee Island Historic Preservation Commission. We did do site visits. The buildings, built in 1937, only met one of the nine criteria for consideration for preservation relocation; they were both over 50 years of age or older. All of the other criteria were negated due to numerous changes to the buildings or overall conditions. They could not be moved and it would be cost prohibitive to rehabilitate them. They have very minimal architectural historic value. They did not meet the other nine criteria; it is not necessary to consider them. Mr. Parks – Are there any other questions? [There were none.] Is there anybody else from the public that would like to address this? [There were none.] At this time I will close the public hearing. Is there discussion or a motion at this time? Mr. Bishop – I make a motion to approve. Mr. Callahan – Second. Mr. Parks – Those in favor of approval please signify. [Vote was unanimous.] Text Amendment & Map Amendment – Section 13-015 – Consideration of change of zoning district from C-2 to R-2 (7 lots between Teresa Lane and Byers Street) Ms. Otto – This item is the third of three different C-2 zoned areas that the City Council directed for staff to bring before Planning Commission and then to City Council for consideration of rezoning. The first that you dealt with was the Eagles Nest area and the second was the south side of Laurel. This third area is between Theresa Lane and Byers Street. In your packet there are 7 lots that are currently in the C-2 zone and are before you for consideration to be rezoned to R-2. This map [referring to PowerPoint] shows a clearer view of these six lots and the seventh lot has a boundary line through it so it has both C-2 with a portion of R-2 on it. All of the current owners have been notified that this is being considered. The numbers that have been assigned by staff to each lot corresponds with this table to show how we will be referring to them tonight. For example, lot 1 is the lot that I just described that has both C-2 and R-2 portions with the boundary line going through it and that is map #1 in the table. As we go through them you may have people speaking and we can identify which property their particular comments are for by the lot numbers that have been assigned. Staff received an email today that I do need to read into the record at some point. Mr. Parks – Do we have any questions for staff at this time? [There were none.] Would you like to read the email into the record? Ms. Otto – Yes. I laid a copy at your seats because this came in midday today. It is signed by Tim Cramer and Jim Peavy and was received by email at 11:38 this morning. “Dear Ms. Otto, Jim Peavy and TCC Properties, LLC object to the zoning 14 change on the above two adjacent lots and the attempt to rezone would be an unlawful taking without compensation and Jim Peavy and TCC Properties will take any appropriate action to protect their property rights and value. Please keep us informed.” The two properties that are referenced are lots 5 and 7 which both front on Highway 80. The PIN number as provided in the original email is incorrect for one of those and I did exchange further emails with Mr. Cramer and clarified what he was describing on this diagram is lots 5 and 7 and the request would be not to change that zoning. Ms. Bramble – Was that where they were going to request a billboard - was that number 1? Ms. Otto – No, it’s number 2. Ms. Bramble – One and two are empty lots? Ms. Otto – Yes. There are no devious circumstances going on here. If you recall, there was a C-2 charette that was conducted in March of 2012. The City received the final report in August of 2012 and it suggested no rezoning. There were some who participated that felt the final document was pro-commercial, pro-business and did not take into account some of the input provided by residents. Some of the owners had expressed that they were not aware they were zoned commercially and/or they desired to have the zoning changed. If you recall, the outcome for Eagles Nest was that they did want to be rezoned and that change was made. When the south side of Laurel Avenue was considered, the final determination was that no changes would be made. This is the third area for your consideration. Mr. Parks – The request for Laurel, there were people that did want the change. Did we have the option at that time of recommending that just half of the recommended properties went R-2? Ms. Otto – That would have been an option. Mr. Parks – Theoretically, this Commission can say, 5 and 7 we understand your concerns and we recommend to council 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6. Ms. Otto – Yes, which is an option. Mr. Parks – Okay. I’m not sure we all understood that when Laurel was on the table. Ms. Otto – Yes, these are each individual parcels. It would not be uncommon, looking at the zoning map, to have a zigzag boundary line between zones. Mr. Parks – Is there anybody that would like to speak to this? Joe Craft came forward and introduced himself. I live at Theresa Lane. The empty lot, number 1, I see its current zoning is R-2 but I heard yesterday it was C-2 and R-2. Is it both? Ms. Otto – It is. The boundary crosses that property. The majority of it is actually C-2. There is a code section in Article 4 that describes when a property has a boundary line crossing it, the least intensive zoning applies. Given residential versus commercial, the least intensive is the residential. Mr. Craft – So they couldn’t put a 7-11 or a hot dog stand on there. Could they do commercial on that lot? Ms. Otto – I believe they would have that right even though the ordinance says the least intent; that can be subject to interpretation. To me, residential is the least intent but I believe a legal person could probably argue the opposite. This would clarify, one way or the other, the outcome for that particular lot that will be a movement of the line to either C-2 or R-2 so we don’t have a line going through that property. 15 Mr. Craft – I don’t think our covenants would allow a commercial in there. Ms. Otto – The City does not enforce subdivision covenants; it would be between the homeowners to deal with that situation. Mr. Parks – Is there anyone else that would like to speak to this issue? Ms. Otto – When the C-2 corridor was created, it was measured from the center of Highway 80 and it took no regard for individual parcel lines which is why you see that 200-foot corridor swiping through individual lots. It is more desirable and technology would now allow a much more detailed map to be drawn that did not cross properties with boundary lines. Mr. Parks – What is that little toenail behind 2 and 3? Ms. Otto – I think the big red line on our zoning map version is to follow Estill Avenue. This is a street here [referring to PowerPoint] and that line is not encompassing the lots to the north of it. It is staying in the street until you get to the end and then it is going through a parcel. David Birdwell came forward and introduced himself. I am a resident of North Wave. I would hope you would help us with this mistake that was made that you were just referring to. I would really like to see lot #1 made totally residential because everything else in our neighborhood is residential and that is the first lot as you enter our neighborhood. Also, I would like to point out for those of you who have not been by there, lot #3 has a residential home on it currently and number 2 is vacant as is 4, 5, 6, and 7. Part of that is already residential with that lot #3 home. Those are the two things I would like to point out. Cindy Kohn came forward and introduced herself. I live on Teresa Lane. I want to express my support for the whole group of the 7 lots to be R-2. Number 1 basically has the entrance to North Wave and the lot behind that, actually on Teresa Lane, is our section. It is frontage on Highway 80, it is minimal, and I believe part of that is actually where we have our homeowners light going into there and the lot is behind it. Mr. Parks – Is there anybody else that would like to address this issue? [There were none.] At this time I would like to close the public hearing. I’m open to a motion or discussion. Ms. Otto – This is both a Map Amendment and a Text Amendment. What we have been looking at is predominantly the map but the table here would be incorporated into language, if adopted, would be Section 13-015. This is to change the map and the change to Article 13. Mr. Parks – If we do this, if we are to say R-2, are we creating substandard lots of record? Ms. Otto – No. The residentially developed properties that are C-2 have always been developed by R-2 guidelines for setbacks. If you have a C-2 property currently and you want to build it residential, you go to the R-2 standards for doing so. Mr. Parks – Do they meet the minimum lot size for R-2? Ms. Otto – Yes, they do. Ms. Bramble – Lot #3 is a seasonal rental house. I don’t think we could do a zigzag line. I personally think if we tighten up on the lighting ordinance and things that could actually control commercial, even seasonal rental houses, we could work with our commercial corridor without having the zigzag effect of I want this one residential and this one commercial. 16 Mr. Parks – It’s just an option. Ms. Bramble – I wouldn’t be for an option like that. We have empty lots, a seasonal rental house, and two people that sent an email that don’t want it changed from commercial to residential. Mr. Parks – Is there other discussion at this time. Mr. McNaughton – Move to approve the zoning change from C-2 to R-2 on lots 1 through 7. Mr. Bishop – Second. Mr. Parks – I have a motion to approve with a second. All those in favor of the motion to approve, please signify. (Vote was unanimous). Text Amendment – Section 3-190 – Swimming Pool Requirements and Placement Ms. Otto – Our current Section 3-190 outlines various requirements for swimming pools. What is before you is a proposal to add two additional subsections. The first is specific on how to handle the discharge from a swimming pool, hot tub, or sauna. In your packet is a list of some code sections that talk about stormwater. The first on that list is Section 16-200, which is a Municipal Code that refers to items that are exempt from discharge limitations in that they can be discharged to the ground which would ultimately put them into the ground water and flowing into our state waters that surround Tybee. Up until December of 2011, swimming pools had been on that list. It was determined at that time that this item would be removed from the list of exemptions meaning that you could not discharge a swimming pool onto the ground. The thought behind that is because it is treated chemical water that should not be flowing into the ground, marshes, or the ocean. The removal of that was clear to staff but it is challenging to explain to our swimming pool owners because it doesn’t say what to do with the water. What is before you is one attempt to clarify for swimming pool owners how to handle the discharge if they need to drain their swimming pools. The language is that it needs to get into the sewer system not the storm system. The last subsection that is proposed is (i) and it adds to the swimming pool section the penalties for not complying with any of the subsections of this article. Mr. Parks – I’m going to have a hard time telling the pool owner, when he cleans the filter on his pool, that it has to go into the sewer. This person goes to rinse out his filter and it may not be close to a toilet or some other place that goes into a sewer. Ms. Otto – Is a filter something you can pick up and take into a house and clean in the bathtub? Mr. Parks – No. On the pools that I’ve had you couldn’t move it. When I was researching this, many other municipalities don’t allow storm drainage dumping. They do allow a certain rate per minute into a lawn or irrigation or something like that so there is some filtering going on. I just have a hard time imposing on the pool owners that when they rinse their filter they have to do it in a sewer. Ms. Otto – Is that a limitation or exemption you would see if it was strictly rinsing of the filter? You are not opposed to the entire draining of the pool into the sewer system? Mr. Parks – Every municipality that I looked at deals with not draining this into the storm drains because of the chlorine, acid, copper, and chemicals that are in there. Ms. Otto – We have learned that the salt water pools are becoming more popular and they too don’t have a good base to go into the ground either. 17 Mr. Parks – There is a lot of mitigation if you do it on your lawn or someplace where it has a chance to go through a ground water filtering type operation; there were certain restrictions that were okay. Ms. Otto – How frequently does a typical pool filter need to be cleaned? Mr. Parks – I was going to ask you about commercial pools at the hotels. I’m sure they are cleaned out on a different basis than a homeowner. I used to clean them regularly, depending on the season, but it is a regular occurrence. I agree that we can’t be dumping this stuff into the storm sewers. Ms. Bramble – I’m hard pressed to say a pool owner, when they are flushing out their filter, is going to dump it on the lawn. If you own a pool, you probably have a nice lawn. If someone has a pool and a beautiful lawn, I don’t think they would want to use the treated chemical water to water their manicured lawn. If you have a pool, you have to make the concessions to dispose of this treated water. Would they have to pay the city to cut into the sewer line and have a valve that they open when they’re cleaning the filter? Mr. Parks – Or a gravel area nearby. Several of them have gravel around the pool. In the wording that we are looking at, we don’t allow them anything except sewer. We don’t say the City comes by with a truck or you put it into jugs and take to them. Ms. Bramble – So all of it needs to go into the sewer. Mr. Parks – That’s what we’re saying. I’m saying that many municipalities allow cleaning the filter to go into the ground and have written it into their code. I think we are being unnecessarily strict here, just my opinion. Mr. Bishop – Where does it go now? Ms. Otto – Currently, because it is not on the list of things that can go on the ground, the regulation is it has to go into the sewer. By not having it on a list of exemptions, it is not saying that outright which was the intent to get the language that says swimming pools cannot go on the ground; it has to go in the sewer system. City employees, whether it is Public Works, Water and Sewer, City Marshal, or Building Official, all have come upon a source of water running down the street and tracked it back to someone emptying their swimming pool. This needs an emergency response of stopping and getting a drain hose to a manhole so that it is going into the sewer system and not running down to the stormwater system. Ms. Bramble – Any pool water whether it be salt water or chlorinated water? Ms. Otto – They are considered equally to not be suitable for ground water discharge. Mr. Parks – Ground water or storm sewer. Ms. Otto – Yes, both. Mr. Callahan – Is the basis for this regulation from EPA or somebody years ago? Ms. Otto – I don’t know the basis for it. Mr. Callahan – People were doing this forever until something happened. Ms. Otto – I don’t know what triggered the change. Tybee, for the most part, doesn’t have stormwater systems in all neighborhoods but there is always a sewer system and that is where that type of discharge needs to be going. 18 Mr. Marion – Can I make a recommendation that we put some time to it. I know you have already done some research by looking at other municipalities to overlay with what we have. At this point, unless we have to make a decision tonight, I don’t think we necessarily know everything we probably need to know. Ms. Otto – I am not opposed to continuance if that is what you’re asking. There is no urgency here. Mr. Parks – We don’t have a swimming pool owner who is waiting for our word. Ms. Otto – No. There is already, by extrapolation of the limitations of what can go on the ground and by that municipal code, it has to go in the sewer. Mr. Parks – In addition to allowing them to clean a filter on gravel or on a lawn, a lot of them specify the type of connection to the sewer. They say you have to use, the one I printed off, “A 3-inch P-trap shall be required with tail piece from the trap not to exceed 3 inches above finished grade.” They get very detailed on this because they don’t want back flow out of the sewer system into the pool. Ms. Otto – A number of city departments worked on this final language. The option to have the flexible hose is meant for those types of above ground pools or pools that are already in place that did not get properly plumbed when they were installed. Mr. Callahan – In Section (I), Penalties, they talk about subject to a penalty not to exceed $1,000 or imprisonment. Isn’t that a little excessive? Ms. Otto – These guidelines are for the judge to have parameters on how to handle a citation for a person that has been cited and brought to court to respond. Mr. Callahan – I don’t want to give a judge leeway to put them in jail. Ms. Otto – Again, it can be modified if you choose. Mr. Callahan – Since we are modifying the existing section, should we allow some sort of phase in period? Are we going to notify people with pools that this change is taking affect and the next time they do it they are going to prison? Ms. Otto – In your packet is an application that we are currently using for new construction. To bring it to the attention of others, we would have the normal processes of the back of the utility billing and the City’s website to get the word out that this is a new ordinance. It is not a new requirement in that you currently cannot discharge onto the ground but it is more of an education process. Mr. Callahan – This happens on my street about twice a week. There is a pool man at the end of my street that comes around about twice a week and leaves a trail of water going down the street. Ms. Otto – That is unfortunate because we all know the water discharges into the either the marsh or ocean. Mr. Marion – The City owns a pool at the campground. How do they manage it? Ms. Otto – I don’t know. That is considered a community pool and it is under the Health Department. They come and check the pH and everything in that type of pool unlike residential that don’t have that. I don’t know how to get the word out. It is important and I’m surprised to hear that you are seeing it as well as the ones we come upon. Mr. Parks – I think that is a good question. How is the City cleaning out its pool? 19 Mr. Bishop – I like the idea of a phase-in. I need to talk with some pool owners. When you talk about waste water or backwash from a pool not going into a system other than a sanitary sewer system, I need to know why that is such a problem. If the drainage of those pools are contaminating the water that makes me question as to why we get into a pool. Why is it so bad that the backwash goes somewhere but yet humans are involved by being in the water, which raises a lot of questions in my mind. Ms. Otto – The purpose of the chlorination and other treatments is so people can use it – it is not the type of water you want to put the habitants of the marsh into. Mr. Bishop – It is chlorinated so it is a problem but a salt water pool is not; it is supposed to be good and more natural. I think the phase-in and the background needs to be researched a little more. I make a motion to table the discussion and vote on proposed Section 3-190(H)(I) at the September Planning Commission when specific questions will be addressed by staff with input from an expert. Ms. Otto – Rather than table we need to continue. Mr. Bishop – I amend the motion from table to continue. Mr. McNaughton – Second. Mr. Parks – All those in favor please signify. [Vote was unanimous.] Text Amendment – Section 5-010 – Permits Required for Construction Ms. Otto – This item was at your July meeting and has been brought back with some of your recommendations put into the document. You asked for clarity specifically on owners doing electrical, plumbing, and mechanical work. You will see those sections have been revised. The entire first paragraph has also been inserted which is the state’s language on a homeowner doing work on their own structure. We refer to this constantly through permitting when an applicant is the homeowner and they want to do their own work but this is not their primary home. There is a state law that we have to follow and whether they can or cannot be issued a permit. The Building Official has been over this as revised and he has accepted it as serving the purposes we need in our department. Mr. Parks – The Homeowner Affidavit, this is language we have taken from the State. Can we reference the State rather than insert the wording into here? Ms. Otto – We can. This Affidavit is a form that when we are in the situation we have the homeowner sign and it goes into their permit file. If you prefer just to reference to the State’s section, that is fine. Mr. Parks – On Section (E), (F), and (G), I agree with the intent but I’m just worried that an owner is going to try and install his own A/C unit with the wiring because we say he can. Ms. Otto – He can if he pulls a permit. Mr. Parks – Can I get a permit to put in my own 2 ton A/C unit on my house? Ms. Otto – Yes, you can. It needs to be your primary home but if you are able to do that work, yes, you can. If you do hire somebody to help you, it has to be a state licensed person. Mr. Parks – Will that be inspected after the completion of the work? Ms. Otto – We very much want to inspect. We make a lot of calls on permits trying to get inspections for people or contactors that have not called. We do reach out and try to get all files inspected and closed. We always recommend 20 that people who have a contractor not make a final payment until they have a passed inspection in their hands because it is challenging to get a contractor to return if there are issues when it is inspected. It is something we emphasize all the time as we want to do these inspections and get these files closed in a timely manner. Mr. McNaughton – In Section (A), the wording in red, is that new from when we discussed it the last time? Ms. Otto – No. I left all the red from last time and added additional red where needed. Mr. McNaughton – It sounds very open ended, “A building permit is required prior to commencement of any work on any structure.” If my wife says I need to put up a new set of blinds or a towel bar, that is work on my structure. Would I be required to get a permit? I’m concerned it is so wide open and not definitive enough. Ms. Otto – The additional language is in Article 9 of the Land Development Code. We have had the same struggle when we worked with that section. It is certainly not intended to include blinds, carpet, or paint. It is challenging to get the right language in there to cover what it does need to cover and not what it doesn’t. Section 9-030(A) could also be interpreted to not allow what you just described. It reads, “No work of any nature shall be started until a building permit has been issued. A permit shall be secured for all new construction, all interior and exterior property alterations and all interior and exterior property repairs. Cosmetic items such as painting, carpet replacement and similar work shall not require a permit.” Mr. McNaughton – Should this section (A) and the proposed 5-010 include a reference to 9-030? Ms. Otto – I would be glad to add that. Mr. McNaughton – Two questions on (E), (F), and (G). The last sentence of each says, “This permit may not be needed if a renovation zoning permit has already been issued on the structure.” Is there a time limit on the earlier permit? Ms. Otto – No, it is the scope of the earlier permit. If someone applied for a bathroom remodel and within that scope and the value of the project, they included the work for the plumbing, electrical, and mechanical, then a separate permit is not required. This differs from some other municipalities that require a separate permit for each component. They have plan reviewers and inspectors for each different trade, where Tybee does not. We prefer one permit to encompass all of that so this is just a reminder to people that if they already have a building permit for renovation, it most likely already includes plumbing and electrical. Mr. McNaughton – I’m still troubled where it says, “This permit may not be needed...” I wish it were more specific. Ms. Otto – We always have to go back and look at the scope of that original permit to make sure that whoever pulled that permit did in fact cover the work that the electrician, for example, needs to do. It does leave it a little open ended. Mr. Parks – Other questions for staff? Ms. Otto – I want to clarify that the motion includes, this is to reference in the Homeowner Affidavit paragraph, the State code section but not list the language for it. In subsection (a), include a reference to Section 9-030 about the types of projects that require building permits. Mr. Bishop – On the Homeowner Affidavit, the City reserves the right to ask for that, it is not necessarily a requirement, correct? Ms. Otto – In circumstances where we are not assured that this is, in fact, a primary home, we will require it. Mr. Bishop – That is ‘may’ as opposed to ‘will’? 21 Ms. Otto – We can tell by their water billing, phone number, and address they give as the applicant for the permit, that they are residents. Mr. Borkowski – I make a motion to approve with the changes reflected by Dianne. Ms. Bramble – Second. Mr. McNaughton – I will raise my same objections as I did last month. Applying for a permit by an owner to change an electrical fixture or plumbing fixture is unnecessary and unenforceable. Mr. Parks – Did you want that in the code or do you want that in the minutes? Mr. McNaughton – I would like to see the word ‘fixtures’ removed from a requirement for a permit to replace an electrical fixture or replace a plumbing fixture. I would like to see those removed as being required to have a permit. This is the same objection I made before and my principle concern is that it is not enforceable. Why pass an ordinance you cannot enforce? Ms. Otto – For electric, we did add, “…with wiring involved…” to clarify that if it was just a ceiling fan being replaced that doesn’t involve new wiring being pulled, is what the intent there was. If it was strictly taking one fixture down, putting another one back up and not running any new wiring to it, it would not require a permit. Mr. McNaughton – That would be perfectly acceptable to me. Mr. Parks – That is in there – with wiring involved? Ms. Otto – Yes. As far as plumbing, the installation of a toilet seems to be one of the most difficult things to do and get passed on the first inspection. Whether the owner is doing it or a contractor, I think to prevent sewer gas and do it properly, we would like to permit it and certainly like to inspect it to provide the code requirements so it is done correctly. That is an internal change inside a structure and it is difficult to catch if permits are not pulled. I encourage them to do so and there are certainly clues if there is a toilet sitting outside that something is going on or if it shows up at the city dump. We do track what debris gets taken to the City’s facility. Again, the errors of doing it wrong, I think, are worth the requirement of doing it right. Mr. Parks – I have a motion on the table and a second. Those in favor please signify. [Bramble, Callahan, Bishop, Marion, and Borkowski approved / McNaughton was opposed.] Do I have a motion to adjourn? Mr. Callahan – Motion. Mr. Bishop – Second. Mr. Parks – All those in favor please signify. [Vote was unanimous.] Mr. Parks – Meeting is adjourned. Meeting ended at 9:18 PM Minutes by Jerris Bryant