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HomeMy Public PortalAbout20121211ParkingCommitteeMinutes.pdf Sharon S. Shaver CITY OF TYBEE ISLAND PARKING COMMITTEE MINUTES December 11, 2012 ATTENDEES Council Committee representatives: Bill Garbett, Paul Wolff, Tom Groover Staff Committee representatives: Diane Schleicher, Joe Wilson, Denise Dubuque, Chantel Morton and Chief Robert Bryson GUESTS Mr. Dwayne Watts and Mr. K.S. Patel CALL TO ORDER Mr. Bill Garbett called the meeting to order. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Mr. Wolff made a motion to approve the minutes of the last meeting. Mr. Groover seconded the motion. The minutes from the November 13, 2012 meeting were approved. Old Business I. Discuss Legal City ROW Parking Options on Lovell Avenue South of 14th Street to 15th Street Mr. Garbett stated that he and Ms. Schleicher visited the area. He asked Ms. Schleicher to take the lead and explain what was found. Ms. Schleicher explained that any decision made by the committee would have to go to Council for approval. Ms. Schleicher presented pictures explaining parking behind Sting Ray’s, behind the Dunes Hotel where there are signs with “hotel parking only,” parallel parking wholly on ROW, and the apartments on down the street. She stated that very little of the apartment parking is in the City ROW. The apartment parking is the same situation as Sugar Shack, Macelwee’s, the laundry and Atlantis Inn. Those spaces are on private property for the most part. She said that the ROW property next to Mrs. Jolley has Sting Ray’s employees parking there. She said that a few parking spaces could be put in there without impeding access to the well. The parking will probably have to be parallel. Mr. Groover asked if the gate could be moved for access to the well. Ms. Schleicher said that she would speak with George Reese about it to maximize parking. She stated that access for trucks is needed. Ms. Schleicher stated that there would have to be a big enough space for a utility truck to have access to the well. Mr. Wolff asked if one space could not be marked “City vehicles only” or “authorized vehicles only.” He said that if people park there, ticket and tow them. Ms. Schleicher said that the committee needs to work to maximize parking in that area. The Fourteenth Street area is prime parking and for the businesses, employees and customers. Employees and customers are putting a Sting Ray’s menu in the cars to avoid getting tickets and that isn’t really legal. The committee needs to come up with a way to make the legal use of the right of way and make it a little bit safer. Ms. Schleicher completed the presentation, stating that the common sense approach that we have had when the parking is part on the ROW and part on personal property, that parking is not going to change. Sharon S. Shaver Ms. Schleicher said that Mr. Groover has challenged us to come up with something that is consistent and the parking staff has challenged the council to come up with something that is consistent. She said that St. Michael’s was assigned decal only parking. Behind Captain’s Watch there is parallel parking and pay to park, but it is really cumbersome for someone to get. A talking point is to perhaps improve it and sign it decal parking only; sign behind the Dunes as decal parking only and behind Mrs. Jolley, do a little bit of improvement and assign it as decal only as there is a lot of space for parking there; improve around the well and what is on the Lovell side and make that decal only. Ms. Schleicher asked Ms. Dubuque if there was a lot of revenue being collected behind the Social Club. Ms. Dubuque stated that, during the summer, there is behind Blimpie’s, but this time of year it is mostly Sting Ray’s employees. Ms. Schleicher stated that the thinking was making everything on Lovell decal, or everything south of 15th Street decal, so that there would be consistency. She said that it is whatever the committee wants to do. She said that she thinks that can be done without too much vegetation disrupted. Mr. Garbett said that he would personally like to see the whole block as parking meters only, but he understands that the committee is working on something to accommodate the hotel. He said that those lots are the ones that present a dilemma. Mr. Garbett stated that having that whole block as decal parking only appears to be the best solution. Mr. Patel asked if that meant Tybee decals. Mr. Garbett confirmed that it would be Tybee decals. Mr. Garbett asked Ms. Schleicher to explain how the other businesses handle the decals. Ms. Schleicher said that Fannies, Subway, the Navons, Spanky’s purchase decals for the employees. If an employee leaves then the decal is returned and brought to the City where a replacement decal is given for the next employee. Ms. Schleicher asked Mr. Patel if he lived on the island. Mr. Patel stated that he did as the majority of his employees live on Tybee. Ms. Schleicher gave a scenario of all the employees parking in the seven spaces that are in the ROW, since they have decals, and leave the parking lot available to guests. She said the only risk is a resident or someone with a decal parking there. Mr. Patel stated that he walks to work. He said that he needs those spaces. He has 54 rooms and those spaces are needed. He said that he is totally opposed to decal parking back there. He said that he has had those spaces for 60 years as stated by Jason at the City Council meeting. He said that he does not think it is right. The spaces have been there. They have used them. He said you could put decal by the well and that’s fine, but the businesses need the spaces. Mr. Patel stated again that he does not think it is right. He said that he has maintained those spaces. He has put curbing there, paved it and maintained it. He said that he is totally opposed to it. Mr. Garbett asked where Mr. Patel’s employees were parking. Sharon S. Shaver Mr. Patel stated that they parked wherever they could find a space, but he only has two employees. Mr. Garbett said that he thinks that the committee needs to explain this to Bubba again and search for a solution. Mr. Garbett and Mr. Wolff said they are trying to make things consistent. Mr. Patel said they are just trying to make the experience on Tybee a good one. He said that just one review on a website that is negative, or “Hey, I got a ticket while staying there.” will negatively impact his business and he does not want that. Mr. Groover said that he wanted to talk about Mrs. Jolley’s property. He said that he is opposed to the City going in and moving her fence. Ms. Schleicher explained that there was no discussion of moving Mrs. Jolley’s fence. She said that there was plenty of space in front of her fence with little change in vegetation to get parking spaces. Mr. Groover asked what was going to be put up as a curb stop, her fence. Ms. Schleicher stated that a traditional curb stop would be put in place. She said that the vegetation, a pole is all very unorganized and people will park in an unorganized manner. She stated that if it were cleaned up and organized, the parking will be better and safer. Mr. Garbett asked Mr. Wilson if the parking had been measured. Mr. Wilson said that the fence is sitting at 19’ from the road and the fence is on the ROW, but he can fix it so that an 18’ parking space could be put there. Mr. Groover said that he didn’t want to do this at Mrs. Jolley’s place and the City going in and disturbing a plant on Mrs. Jolley’s fence. He said then we open the door to the City can going in and improving the ROW on anyone’s property. He said that he did not think that we wanted to go there. He said that some of these people are very touchy about the City going in and improving it, though they know it is not their property. He said that if you go on Second Ave, those people will shoot you if you pull of the road on the ROW because you are damaging their grass. He said that he does not want to go there where the City is perceived as improving the ROW at the expense of the property owner. Ms. Schleicher stated that we have contacted Mrs. Jolley and she appreciated us contacting her and wanted us to continue talking to her. Mr. Wolff asked what Mrs. Jolley’s reaction was. Ms. Shaver stated that she had spoken to Mrs. Jolley and sent her a copy of the draft minutes. She explained that Mrs. Jolley did not want the pole moved as her father had put it there to prevent erosion. She said that Mrs. Jolley will read everything and that she has spoken to Ray and aware that parking is under discussion. Sharon S. Shaver Mr. Wolff asked that the City contact Mrs. Jolley before any vegetation is disturbed and see how she reacts. Mr. Garbett stated that he believes any disturbance to vegetation would be minimal. Mr. Wilson stated that there would be some vegetation removed along the west side of the fence in order to stabilize the bank as it slopes up. He said that he will do whatever the committee wants him to do. He said that here fence is on the City property too and if the committee wants him to improve it, he will improve it. Mr. Garbett asked if Mr. Wilson and Ms. Schleicher could go to Mrs. Jolley’s with some flags and cameras to show the committee what would have to be trimmed back, as well as go down to the pump station. He said that he did not know if there was 18’ at the pump station anyway. Mr. Wilson stated that there had to be25’ from the intersection anyway. He said that he would take pictures at 18’ and put some flags up if that is what the committee wants. Mr. Wolff said that the discussion was to move the gate up by the corner by the pump station so that there could be no parking. Mr. Wilson said that he would prefer there be no parking by the pump station because the City has to be able to get in there for emergencies. Mr. Groover asked Mr. Wilson about moving the fence to the Fourteenth Street side. Mr. Wilson said that he would discuss it with Mr. Reese. Ms. Schleicher said the City would send Mrs. Jolley copies of the photographs so that she would be aware so that she would not have to make the drive. Mr. Garbett asked what the committee wanted to do about Mr. Patel’s property. Ms. Schleicher said the thing about ROW’s versus parking lots is that cities can sell and designate to private party’s parking lots, but ROW’s are public ROW’s and you have to have equal public accessibility to streets as public ROW. She said that Mr. Tommy Branch, who works for Mr. Bubba Hughes, had done some research and the reason the decal works is because it gives equal opportunity and by saying that the parking belongs to the hotel is a discrimination issue. He said that basically by saying that only hotel guests can park there is a discrimination issue. Mr. Wolff said that it is also a gratuity issue by giving them exclusive use of those spaces. Ms. Schleicher said that Mr. Branch advised that by saying decal, anyone can have access as anyone can buy a decal. Ms. Schleicher explained that residents or anyone has access to a decal. Then, we are not breaking the law. She advised that we are trying to clean up the parking all over the island. Ms. Schleicher asked Mr. Patel if there were any other parking changes that could be made to help. Sharon S. Shaver Mr. Patel said those spaces have always been there. Mr. Groover interjected that those spaces had been there since the 1950s. Mr. Patel said that the improvements were made in 1992. The spaces are needed for the guests. Mr. Patel said that he provides decals for their guests. He has his kids tell people that are not guests that they can’t park there. Ms. Schleicher stated that Mr. Patel can’t tow and people can’t be ticketed if they aren’t guests there as it is in the ROW. Mr. Groover asked, hypothetically, if decals were free, how would a place like a hotel give out parking to guests. On Seventeenth Street, at the corner bed and breakfast, decals are put on plastic sheets for the guests to put in windows. Ms. Schleicher said that the decals are purchased. Mr. Groover said that there were not enough decals for every guest, but purchase a certain number that are put on a plastic card to go in the windows. Ms. Schleicher said that enough for every guest room is purchased. She said that apparently when they did their site plan several years ago, only good for that street, it was grandfathered in. She said that it was taken away from them for several years and they came back to the council and asked for that as there was no parking at all for the place. Mr. Groover asked why we couldn’t do the same thing for Sting Ray’s and Mr. Patel and negotiate a price for the decals. Ms. Schleicher advised that the decals are paid at face value. Mr. Garbett pointed out that is exactly what Ms. Schleicher has been explaining. He further stated that the decals at the Seventeenth Street Inn do not guarantee parking and the decals are only good at that spot. A discussion ensued about decal parking on Lovell. Mr. Garbett said that it was at an impasse. He would like some suggestions as to what direction to go. He said that what Mr. Groover is suggesting is not going to work and what Mr. Patel wants is not legal. Mr. Wolff said that based on what Mr. Hughes has said, the first responsibility is to protect the City from potential liability and the second responsibility is to protect the citizens and business owners of Tybee. He said that if we do something like has been proposed where there is decal only parking, buy seven decals, give your guests those decals and have your guest’s park in those spaces. He said that we cannot violate the law by giving Mr. Patel the exclusive right to use the City ROW as that has not been done anywhere else. Sharon S. Shaver Mr. Patel asked why his hotel was being targeted. Mr. Wolff explained that his hotel is not being targeted, that the committee is starting with the busiest areas, which is Fourteenth Street south. Ms. Schleicher explained that the committee has been working on Second Street for the last few months. Mr. Patel emphasized that he has had that parking for the last 60 years. He said that he knows the decal idea is not going to work. Mr. Groover said that the parking staff has to enforce parking. A discussion of several scenarios continued about Sting Ray’s and Dunes parking. Mr. Wolff explained that the City could have decal parking only, but not Dunes parking only. Mr. Patel said that he feels they are two different entities and two different scenarios. Ms. Schleicher stated that Council has a duty to correct things that they know are not legal. She said that the ROW has to be available to everyone. She said that having the Justice Department down here is trying to be avoided. The subject has been discussed since July, 2012 and the attorney’s feel that decal only is the best way to go. Ms. Schleicher asked Ms. Dubuque if Seventeenth Inn was working. Ms. Dubuque said that it was, but asked if that was a precedent the City wanted set. She said that it goes against the consistency that the City is trying to follow, as it clearly states on the back of the decal that it must be permanently affixed to the windshield. She said that Council voted to grandfather the Seventeenth Street Inn. Mr. Groover stated that they could be grandfathered out. Ms. Schleicher stated that staff was not supportive of that decision because of all the issues surrounding it and the City had located a Pay and Display machine at Seventeenth Street for the convenience of the guests. Ms. Dubuque stated that ticketing is done for not having a decal attached. Ms. Schleicher said that the committee was not expecting to have a policy today. Mr. Garbett said that the issues need to be run by Mr. Hughes again and the committee would not be making any decisions today and not in the foreseeable future, but it does need to be resolved. Mr. Garbett stated that the City does need to follow the law. Ms. Dubuque stated that parking staff is very lenient in the areas of Sting Ray’s and Dunes. Sharon S. Shaver Mr. Garbett said that he is separating the hotel from the rest of the street. He said that he feels that there is agreement to put meters or decal parking everywhere else. Ms. Schleicher said that the parking on the west side of the street is not affected. Mr. Groover said that if her were Mr. Patel, he would take down the curb and put straight in parking in there. Mr. Garbett stated that the committee would run this by Mr. Hughes again, investigate permanent identified spaces by Mrs. Jolley to the corner, and moving the gate at the well to the Fourteenth Street side. II. City Improved ROW Parking between East Gate and 1st Street on 2nd Ave - Status of discussion with all of the adjacent property owners with “resident only parking signs” and potential schedule for conversion back to public parking. Mr. Garbett asked for an update on Second Avenue. Ms. Dubuque stated that she did get a quote to have it restriped along with Butler Ave. and it came to about $2500. She stated that parking does not have it in their budget. She said that it really hasn’t gone any furthers. Ms. Dubuque said that it has been worked out with all the residents on Second Ave that all have agreed that they will all take down their signs and will restripe and make consistent on that street. She said the last correspondence stated that Mr. Wilson had emailed that there may be extra money from Battery Row palms that might be used toward restriping, that there might be $6000 being saved from the Butler Ave project by getting the palms free from Battery Row. Ms. Schleicher said that project was right on target so there is no real savings. She said that they could talk to Angela Hudson about that since sent out an email about a budget adjustment. Mr. Wolff asked how many spaces would be gained. Ms. Dubuque advised that there were about ten spaces gained. Mr. Wolff said that we would pick up $2500 in 30 days and we could find the money. Ms. Dubuque said the $2500 is for all of Butler. She said that she would like to have it completed by February. Mr. Wilson said that the Fourteenth Street project came in under budget and it might be able to come from there. Mr. Garbett stated that the money needs to be found to fund the restriping. Sharon S. Shaver III. Update on implementation of Booting Program Ms. Dubuque advised that one car had been booted. She said the 22 letters had gone out notifying people that the ordinance had passed. The person that was booted did come in to parking and make arrangements. She will have it paid by the end of January. Ms. Dubuque said that three have paid on their tickets. The boot has paid for itself. IV. Any Additional Parking Update by Parking Staff Ms. Dubuque stated that there is one additional employee on weekend to help with parking. Mr. Groover asked that North Beach parking be added to the next agenda. Mr. Wilson and the committee discussed parking in north beach as a result of the charrette. Mr. Garbett made a motion to adjourn. Mr. Groover seconded. The meeting was adjourned.