HomeMy Public PortalAbout07-27-2009 Workshop MeetingMINUTES
Board of Commissioners Monthly Workshop
Monday, July 27, 2009 7:00 p.m.
Town Barn
July 27, 2009 Monthly Workshop
Approved: September 14, 2009
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PRESENT: Mayor pro tem Mike Gering, Commissioners Frances Dancy, L. Eric Hallman,
Evelyn Lloyd, and Brian Lowen.
ABSENT: Mayor Tom Stevens, absence excused.
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Bryant Warren, Dan Barker, Kate
Faherty, Dave Remington, and Elizabeth Woodman.
STAFF PRESENT: Town Manager Eric Peterson, Assistant Town Manager Nicole Ard, Town
Clerk/Director of Administration and Human Resources Donna Armbrister, Planning Director
Margaret Hauth, Finance Director Greg Siler, and Town Attorney Bob Hornik.
1. Open the Workshop
Mayor pro tem Gering called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. He did not read the public charge
but noted it would be followed.
2. Agenda Changes Agenda Approval
7:00:29 PM Commissioner Hallman added an item regarding the Town's Poet Laureate to the
end of the meeting.
Upon a motion by Commissioner Dancy, seconded by Commissioner Lowen, the Board moved
to approve the Agenda as amended by a vote of 4 -0. The motion was declared passed.
3. Committee Updates and Reports
7:01:00 PM No committee updates or reports were offered.
4. Consider approval of a bid from Bank of America to finance the new fleet maintenance
facility and related equipment ($1,073,000 at 3.79 for 15 years via an installment
purchase agreement
7:01:30 PM Town Manager Eric Peterson said that they had received a series of bids for
purchase of the Hertz building and the lowest bidder was Bank of America at 3.79 He stated
approval was needed from the Town Board in order to accept the bid. Mr. Peterson said that the
LGC would review the bid and the financing application package.
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Finance Director Greg Siler said that the various bids were included in the packet, and Bank of
America had noted a level principal payment schedule provided at the request of the LGC. He
said that would save the Town about $32,000 in interest, and while the payments would be
higher on the front end they would be much lower on the back end.
7:03:15 PM Commissioner Lowen said in the letter from Bank of America, it indicated that if
the bid was not accepted in writing within five days of the date of the letter then the Bank had the
right to adjust the interest rate to reflect current rates. Mr. Siler said the bid had been accepted in
the time limit noted. Commissioner Lowen said then it did not matter that the Town Board had
not yet approved it. Mr. Siler said he had accepted their rate offer, but the Town Board now had
to provide their approval of the loan. He said the Town had not been obligated to anything by
his acceptance of the rate offer, that it had only locked that rate in.
Mayor pro tem Gering said he recalled there had been a discrepancy between what the LGC
would approve and what the purchase price was. Mr. Siler said they may not have to resolve
that, in that they were hopeful that the LGC would approve the entire amount. He said the LGC
had indicated that they would at times go outside the norm of the purchase price for commercial
properties especially in what was considered to be times of economic decline. Mr. Siler said the
LGC had been provided with the tax value of the property as well as a list of justifications that
would support the Town paying more than the appraised value. He said they would not know
until after the LGC committee had met, but he was hopeful the entire amount would be
approved.
Mayor pro tem Gering asked when they would know the outcome. Town Attorney Bob Hornik
replied sometime after the first Tuesday in August, which was August 4.
7:06:03 PM Commissioner Hallman asked what would happen if the LGC did not approve the
entire amount. Mr. Siler said then the Town would need to come up with the difference. He said
the Bank was willing to lend the entire amount despite the appraisal, and it was now a question
of whether the LGC would permit the Town to borrow it.
Commissioner Hallman said if not approved then the Town would only need to make up the
difference in the monthly payment. Commissioner Dancy stated she had thought it would need
to be a lump sum. Mr. Siler said that was correct.
7:06:48 PM Upon a motion by Commissioner Dancy, seconded by Commissioner Lowen, the
Board moved to approve the bid from Bank of America to finance the new fleet maintenance
facility and related equipment ($1,073,000 at 3.79 for 15 years via an installment- purchase
agreement by a vote of 4 -0. The motion was declared passed.
5. Consideration of an ordinance amending the Town Code to establish Town parks as
tobacco free zones
7:07:13 PM Planning Director Margaret Hauth stated that two draft ordinances had been
provided in the packet for consideration, and that copies of emails had been provided to the
Board as staff had learned more about the Town's ability to enact a policy such as that proposed.
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She said the Town Attorney had provided information stating that there were some provisions in
current State law that would not allow them to enact a policy or ordinance like that proposed
effectively immediately, but as of January 2, 2010 they would be able to do so. Ms. Hauth said
also provided was Section 3.5.1, Penalties and Remedies, which was proposed to be added to the
Town Code to provide some enforcement mechanism.
7:08:40 PM Commissioner Lowen thanked Ms. Hauth for their forethought in providing a
proposed remedy or penalty, since if there were no penalties then there was no point in enforcing
it. Ms. Hauth said that there had been a lot of interest in the proposal and a lot of questions had
been asked, and hopefully they now had captured everything that needed to be included in the
Code.
Mayor pro tem Gering asked the Town Attorney to provide an overview of what the State
statutes would allow the Town to do. Mr. Hornik stated currently the statutes at present did not
allow local governments to regulate smoking on Town property at all, but there were limited
provisions that allowed schools, State and County governments in respect to Social Services or
Social Welfare offices, and health services offices to regulate smoking at those locations. He
said on May 14 the Legislature had adopted amendments to State law, which the Governor had
signed on May 19, that authorized local governments to regulate smoking on any Town -owned
property, and that law would be effective on January 2, 2010.
Mr. Hornik said his suggestion to the Town Board would be if they were going to adopt the draft
ordinance or something similar, that it be effective January 2, 2010 which would be when their
power to regulate would be effective. He said he would also suggest that that the new Section
3.5.1 be added to the Code as Section 2, with Sections 2 and 3 being renumbered to 3 and 4. Mr.
Hornik said that Section 3.5.1(a) would make it a misdemeanor to violate the smoking
prohibition, and (b) authorized the imposition of civil penalties of $25 for the first offence, $50
for the second offence, and so on. He said the Board could adopt that as written or could revise
it, but they had written it in what they believed was the most reasonable way to provide an
enforcement mechanism.
Mayor pro tem Gering said there had been a question for the Board to consider regarding the
scope of what would be prohibited. Ms. Hauth said the ordinance was meant to cover both
lighted and unlighted tobacco, and it was at the Board's discretion if they wanted to deal with
only lighted tobacco. She said the draft ordinance had been written to cover all forms of tobacco
products.
7:13:19 PM Commissioner Dancy said she would prefer it cover all tobacco products because
some people "spit" causing a greater need for clean -up.
Commissioner Lowen agreed, noting that at UNC the signs said "No smoking or use of tobacco
products," which included chewing tobacco.
7:13:38 PM Mayor pro tem Gering said that they did not typically entertain public comment at
Workshops, but asked was there anyone present who wanted to speak.
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Commissioner Lowen said that Mr. Hornik had said at present they were not allowed to prohibit
smoking on Town property. Mr. Hornik said that was correct. Commissioner Lowen said they
did not allow smoking now in Town buildings, and asked did that mean they had essentially
enacted a policy that was illegal. Mr. Peterson responded that policy had been in effect for quite
some time, and they had thought they could regulate smoking in Town buildings.
Mr. Hornik stated they could not as the statutes were currently written. He said one reason not
much thought had been given to that was because local governments routinely had such policies
in place. Mr. Hornik said at present State law did not provide them that authority except in the
limited circumstances he had mentioned earlier.
7:15:51 PM Commissioner Lowen said that he stood by his position regarding the parks, but
he wondered if they now needed to go back and officially adopt a policy for all Town buildings.
He asked was it actually a policy or was it in the Town Code. Town Clerk/Director of
Administration and Human Resources Donna Armbrister stated it was not in the Town Code,
that it was a Town policy.
Mr. Hornik stated that was correct, that it was a policy that had either been officially adopted or
had been the practice for a number of years and accepted as official.
Commissioner Lloyd said she believed there was a policy that you could not smoke in a Town
owned vehicle. Mr. Peterson said that was different from the State statutes. He said the Town
Manager had the authority to adopt policies regulating what employees could do, and one of
those was no smoking by employees in Town vehicles or Town buildings.
Mr. Hornik agreed that was an important distinction. He said the Town could regulate the
conduct of its employees while operating under the scope of their employment.
7:17:34 PM Commissioner Lowen said on a broader scale, that did not legally prohibit an
individual member of the public to smoke in Town Hall or any other Town building. He said to
him that opened up room for more discussion. Commissioner Lowen said he continued to stand
by his position regarding the parks, but they needed to address the other issue because someone
could challenge that policy.
Commissioner Hallman asked would a public hearing be required. Mr. Hornik responded that
that type of ordinance amendment did not require a public hearing be held.
Commissioner Dailey ask why not add into the ordinance that tobacco products were banned
from any Town property, not just parks, so it was all inclusive. Ms. Hauth said the ordinance
was written to be inserted in the Park section of the Town Code, but staff could bring another
ordinance forward for consideration that was more encompassing.
7:18:58 PM Commissioner Hallman said that would be preferable since it would not go into
effect until January in any case. Mr. Hornik said theoretically the Board could adopt an
ordinance tonight or sometime in the near future, but not make it effective until January.
Commissioner Lowen responded health.
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Mayor pro tem Gering stated his thought was to wait and take some time to think about it some
more, including the issues raised tonight such as smokeless tobacco products versus lighted
tobacco products. He said he also wondered what the real objective was of the ordinance.
Mayor pro tem Gering said if that was true then why would you consider not allowing chewing
tobacco.
Commissioner Lowen said because it was "disgusting" and people tended to spit it on the
ground. He said he did not believe that should be permitted on Town property, and it was not
uncommon for such practices to be prohibited by local governments. Commissioner Lowen said
he was actually surprised to receive the emails that suggested the Board not ban smoking in the
parks, noting he believed it was uncommon for tobacco products to be allowed in such areas.
7:20:27 PM Mayor pro tem Gering said he saw all kinds of disagreeable behavior that he did
not believe should be legislated. He said for smoking tobacco where you had second -hand
smoke in proximity to children, it was a health hazard, but for other things that were simply
nuisances that were not health hazards he had to wonder if they were going too far.
Commissioner Hallman said he would support the ban just on the grounds of the cost to the
Town to pick up litter from tobacco products. He said he was curious as to the County's policy.
Ms. Hauth stated the County had tobacco -free areas on the Health Department campus which
was allowed under State statutes, but allowed smoking within their parks. She said they had not
been able to locate another jurisdiction in the State that prohibited smoking in parks, although
many did not allow it in structures.
7:21:39 PM Commissioner Dancy stated that where she worked smokers had to go out to the
Town sidewalk to smoke because they were not allowed to stand anywhere on the property
including the parking lot. She said she believed that was a trend that was happening all over
primarily due to health concerns.
Commissioner Lloyd suggested they waited until closer to January 2 to make a decision on
enacting an ordinance. Ms. Hauth stated she had provided two options, one that banned smoking
entirely and one that banned smoking within 50 feet of play structures, so that if the Board
changed its mind they would have something ready.
Mr. Hornik stated the initial proposal from staff was to limit smoking within 50 feet of play
structures, ball fields, or where children were playing, but during the Board discussion at the
regular meeting there was some support to expand the ban to all parks. He said that was why
there were two draft ordinances included for discussion tonight.
7:23:33 PM Commissioner Lowen said in a park kids were subject to play anywhere, so how
could you say that you could not smoke within 50 feet of where children were playing. He said
essentially you would be saying don't smoke in the park. Commissioner Lowen said he stood by
his position that tobacco products not be allowed on any park property, and believed that others
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would likely follow Hillsborough's lead after January 2, 2010. He said he did not believe they
had to make a decision tonight, and would like to have further discussion about smoking on any
Town property.
Mayor pro tem Gering suggested they give staff direction as to what should be the scope in terms
of what properties and what products, and then look to dealing with an ordinance amendment in
September or perhaps later. He said in terms of scope, they had started out with 50 feet from
playgrounds which had not been proposed to be expanded to all park property, and then
expanded tonight to all Town property. Mayor pro tem Gering said he wanted to know where
within that spectrum the Town Board fell. He said that Commissioner Lowen had set out one
end of the spectrum, and asked if anyone had anything to add regarding the scope.
7:25:46 PM Commissioner Lloyd said her only concern was how a ban would be enforced.
She said she would support no smoking at all in the parks, but without someone assigned to
enforce it she did not know how effective it would be. She said as far other Town properties, she
had no problem with extending the ban to include those as well, particularly since that was the
current policy for employees.
Commissioner Dancy said she favored no smoking on any Town property.
Commissioner Hallman said he tended to agree, but Riverwalk and Gold Park were extensive
and it may be difficult to enforce and perhaps excessive. But, he said, he would be willing to
listen to the other Commissioners' opinions.
7:27:13 PM Mayor pro tem Gering said then perhaps staff should come back with two
variations for consideration, one that covered all Town property and one that covered parks only.
Commissioner Hallman said he certainly agreed with all Town property, but trying to do all of
the parks may be somewhat excessive. He said he liked the approach of prohibiting tobacco
products within so many feet of fixed play equipment, but he acknowledged Commissioner
Lowen's point about the athletic fields and the picnic shelters and the fact that children tend to
play anywhere. Commissioner Hallman said he was not sure how to draw a line there, in that 50
feet might not be far enough away.
Mayor pro tem Gering asked how the Board felt about smokeless tobacco products versus lighted
tobacco products.
7:28:41 PM Commissioner Hallman stated he did not see a distinction, and agreed with
Commissioner Lowen that a smokeless product was just as bad as lighted tobacco products.
Commissioner Dancy stated that both resulted in litter.
7:29:17 PM Mayor pro tem Gering asked did that give staff enough information to work with.
Ms. Hauth responded yes.
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Commissioner Lloyd said regarding the enforcement aspect, she did not believe the fine should
be above $25 for the first offense. Mr. Hornik said many town codes had sections that said any
violation of the town code was punishable as a misdemeanor, and in the real world it was only
enforced in the rarest of circumstances when there were criminal prosecutions for violations of
the zoning ordinance or something of that sort.
Commissioner Hallman said he would rather have the teeth and not use it, than all the incidences
where they had code violations and they were forced to go through a protracted battle. He said
he would rather err on the side of having something that could be used if needed.
7:30:41 PM Commissioner Lowen agreed, and said he would be curious to know how the
UNC Police addressed the issue, reminding the Board that last year the entire INC campus had
become smoke -free. He said he wondered how many tickets were issued and if they actually
levied fines. Commissioner Lowen said once the Board enacted something for Hillsborough,
that between the media and the signage he believed most people would abide by the new rules.
Commissioner Lowen said he did not believe they needed to have a Police Officer actively
looking for violators, but said once the ordinance went into affect he would be happy to tell
someone that was smoking that the area was tobacco -free. He said he believed most people
would respect that, and would support a tobacco ban for all Town properties.
7:32:37 PM Mayor pro tem Gering said he believed that was as much progress as they could
make tonight, and asked staff to come back to the Board with revised ordinances in September.
6. Provide direction to the Rail Station Task Force regarding potential uses for the 20
acres, known as the Collins Property, owned by the Town
7:32:52 PM Ms. Hauth said that the Rail Station Task Force had asked for direction as they
moved forward with their work as to what the Town Board envisioned as potential uses of the
Town's 20 -acre site. She said she wanted to make it clear that the uses listed in the agenda
materials were the items that had previously been suggested, and just because a use appeared on
the list did not obligate the Board to allow it. Ms. Hauth asked the Board for any additional uses
that they believed should be considered for that property.
Ms. Hauth said that the uses previously discussed were municipal offices, police, fire, a multi
model transit center, arts center, maintaining the existing ball fields as long as it made sense, and
shared parking on the site to accommodate transit, night meeting parking, ball field participants
or arts activities parking, and seasonal transit peaks, estimated at 200 spaces.
7:35:00 PM Commissioner Hallman said he remembered an earlier conversation when they
were acquiring the land that they were considering land banking and perhaps flipping the
property to a developer. He said they had also discussed transit- oriented development, and
would still like to see those included. Ms. Hauth said that transit- oriented development would
have to be significantly larger than 20 acres to have some real impact or benefit for the train
station, but they could say no use to allow for the swapping of land with adjacent land if they
decided that some adjacent land was more desirable.
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Mayor pro tem Gering said he believed the scope of the Task Force was more than just those 20
acres, noting the intention was to plan for that and the rest of the Collins property to the extent
that it made sense as far as what other uses might be desirable. He was that was a possible
scenario that would guide them somewhat one way or the other as to what to do with their 20
acres.
7:36:14 PM Commissioner Hallman agreed that it was in the message that the Task Force
could do something larger.
Commissioner Dancy said she had looked at it as being just a part of what could possibly go on
the entire tract, no just the Town's 20 acres. She said all of the uses she had wanted to see there
such as police, fire, and municipal offices would likely take much more than just the 20 acres.
Commissioner Dancy said she was interested in what the possibilities were for the entire tract.
Ms. Hauth said she believed the Task Force felt free to have some discretion or make some
recommendations for the larger Collins property, but wanted feedback from the Town Board
about its 20 acres before they went any further. She said she would make sure that the Task
Force understood that the property lines were not sacred.
Commissioner Lowen said the list provided did contain the items that had at some point been
discussed. He said he would very much like to see some municipal offices on that property, if
not on the Town's 20 acres then somewhere on the Collins property. Commissioner Lowen said
he knew of nothing to add to the list at this particular time, but other items may come up later.
7:38:13 PM Commissioner Lloyd agreed that all of the items listed were uses that had been
discussed, but did not believe that all of those listed could be achieved because of the cost. She
said she did not believe the Town could afford to build a free standing arts center but could
possibly include one within a municipal building.
Mayor pro tem Gering agreed that the list was inclusive and it was difficult to think of any others
that could be municipal uses. He said he was happy with the list as it stood. The Board agreed
by consensus.
7. Discussion with the Planning Board regarding the proposed development moratorium,
possible alternatives, and the process for the Zoning Ordinance rewrite
7:40:22 PM The Planning Board joined the Town Board at the Board's table.
Mayor pro tem Gering stated that this was a workshop and was the time the Board had set aside
to discuss, in this instance, the proposed development moratorium with the Planning Board. He
said it was his expectation that the Board would not be making any decisions tonight. Mayor pro
tem Gering said the Board may later invite participation from the audience, but for now the
discussion would be between the Town Board and the Planning Board.
Mayor pro tem Gering said a public hearing had been held and the Board had heard a great
amount of feedback at that meeting as well after, and staff had taken that feedback to heart and
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worked on proposals to mitigate or eliminate the need for a moratorium. He said he believed that
was where tonight's discussion should begin, that is for staff to present their proposals and then
discuss those proposals.
Ms. Hauth said the original proposal, Option 1, was for an 18 -month schedule to work through
the rewrite of the Zoning Ordinance because it involved significant public input opportunities
throughout the process. She said after talking with the consultants, she believed the best way to
take some time off the process was to change the public involvement process to be somewhat
more technology -heavy and somewhat more limited in terms of getting much of the input up
front and then allowing those who were really interested and wanted to participate to do so
electronically throughout the process and then propose the ordinance at the end. Ms. Hauth said
the consultants had indicated that had worked in the past, so they had compressed the schedule
down to nine months. She said the public hearing process was a two to three month process and
the Board had the ability to change that in any way they wanted.
Ms. Hauth said to make that nine month process work from beginning to end the Planning
Department staff would be heavily involved in the rewrite, and in some ways they would be the
conduit for taking ideas from volunteers and citizens and translating and transmitting them to the
consultants. She said the staff would in some ways become the direct client rather than an
advisory board, and that was fairly staff intensive. Ms. Hauth said there were a number of
technology related things they could take advantage of, such as keypads that could be used
during public meetings where questions were asked and answered by punching in the answers.
She said that was better than any survey because the response would be immediate and would
provide easily usable data.
Ms. Hauth said she was not 100% convinced that the process would not overwhelm the staff if
they continued to process applications, because they could not predict what might be submitted.
For example, they had not expected the UNC Hospital application or the Truck Stop, and 2 years
ago they had not expected the Daniel Boone application. Ms. Hauth said there was always the
risk of large development proposals coming in during the process that you wished you had the
new ordinance in place for.
Ms. Hauth said in order for staff to make that commitment, it would be necessary to stop being
so available to the public. She said she had estimated as a worst case scenario that three days a
week she would not be available to the public, to answer the phone, to attend meetings, or to
respond to emails, because she would be working with the consultants on the rewrite. Ms. Hauth
said at least one day or two half -days each week all of the staff would be tied up and unavailable.
She said they would try to minimize that as much as possible, but in order to keep to the schedule
they could not continue to conduct business in the way it was currently done. Ms. Hauth said
that would result in slow response times and pushing deadlines back, and those submitting
applications would not be able to rely on staff as they had in the past.
Ms. Hauth said one of the positives was the technology, in that if they embraced all the
technology available then all those who wanted to be involved in the process would be happier in
the end than if they went through a task force. She said those who wanted to review the entire
ordinance would be able to do so, and those who were interested in only small sections would be
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able to do that in detail. Ms. Hauth said technology would allow people to choose their level of
participation.
Ms. Hauth said that option, Option 1, would lead to working smarter, not harder. She said with
the compressed schedule and without a moratorium, there was less impact on the private sector.
Ms. Hauth said that there would be a minor increase in the contract cost with that option.
Ms. Hauth said Option 1A suggested hiring an experienced planner for short-term employment
to handle the application process so that existing staff could focus on the rewrite. She said the
contract would be for a specified number of hours, length of time, and fixed price to process
applications and work with the public. Ms. Hauth said she would expect that would be on the
order of 24 hours a week for about 12 months at a cost of between $30,000 and $40,000. She
said a planner that was between jobs or was retired would be a good candidate. Ms. Hauth said
the Town could partially recoup some of that cost by increasing development review fees during
the rewrite period.
7:52:01 PM Commissioner Dancy asked about the learning curve for a contract employee,
noting it would take time to train someone and she had found that sometimes it was easier to do
something yourself than to explain to a new employee how to do it. She said she would not be in
favor of that option because it would require staff time to train someone. Ms. Hauth said that
was certainly an issue, unless they happened to find someone that was familiar with
Hillsborough and its ordinance.
Ms. Hauth said that Option 1B was essentially the same as Option 1A but the employee would be
a member of the consultant's staff, or someone from a firm who provided such resources. She
said she had been advised that the cost would be 011 the order of $50,000 or more. Ms. Hauth
said one consideration was that the Town would have less control of who would be assigned to
them and would likely have to pay for some travel time as well. She said the Town could
partially recoup some of the cost by increasing development review fees during the rewrite
period.
Ms. Hauth said Option 1C was a variation in that the Town could enter into agreements with
local or nearby firms to provide comments and review of applications. She said while that would
not necessarily be a "planning" review, that review of plan components such as traffic and
stormwater would provide an understanding of the impacts of a project better during a period of
less in -depth review by staff. Ms. Hauth said the cost would be borne by the applicant and
would likely be more than the increased fees in Options lA and 1B. She said that two design
firms had offered assistance with the review of applications at the hearing, but they could not
provide a review of projects they were responsible for designing.
Ms. Hauth said that Option 1D would be a targeted moratorium, and would involve identifying
projects that would have the largest impact on the Town. She said review of those identified
projects would be delayed, and subdivisions, Conditional and Special Use Permits impacting
more than 10 acres might be an option for delay. Ms. Hauth said that option would have no
direct cost to the Town.
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7:58:02 PM Planning Board member Dave Remington asked if Ms. Hauth was envisioning all
of those options to be in conjunction with the expedited timeframe. Ms. Hauth said that was
correct. She said the last option, Option 2, would be to draw out the timeframe to allow staff to
continue to process applications as they came in and work on the rewrite concurrently. Ms.
Hauth said that would have no direct cost to the Town, but it would impact opportunity costs for
applicants. As well, she said, she was somewhat concerned about keeping staff on that kind of
high pressure schedule for a long period of time. Ms. Hauth said work on the ordinance would
require quiet time and that would be very hard to achieve while having regular contact with the
public.
7:59:43 PM Mayor pro tem Gering thanked Ms. Hauth and the staff for putting the options
together for review, particularly on short notice. He said it was another instance where staff had
responded quickly and very well.
Planning Board Chair Bryant Warren said all of the options were viable, and they now had to
decide which one would be the most beneficial to the Town. He said some were quick, some
cheap, and some good, and believed that the good and the quick should be what they went with
although that would mean some cost to the Town. Mr. Warren said he believed they should do
whatever necessary to allow staff to move forward with the rewrite. He said they had been
discussing a rewrite of the ordinance since 1998, and here they were in 2009 and it still had not
been done. Mr. Warren said he would really not like to see a moratorium that would stop
development, and believed it was up to the Town to decide what they could provide to staff that
would allow the ordinance to be rewritten without enacting a moratorium. He said whatever that
might cost was something they would have to bear.
8:01:23 PM Planning Board member Elizabeth Woodman said she understood that the Town
had been deluged with applications since word of a possible moratorium had spread, and
wondered if any of those were for 10 acres or more. Ms. Hauth said no one had really tried to
beat the moratorium, noting they had been telling people that under State law if the Town Board
enacted a moratorium it would be retroactive to June 8.
Commissioner Hallman agreed with Mr. Warren that for the long range implications the Town
would need to find a way to cover the cost of whatever their decision was. He said the goal was
to get the ordinance rewrite done, and the list of projects that would be exempt from a
moratorium was lengthy. Commissioner Hallman said he was not sure that they would
accomplish what they wanted to do with a moratorium because of that lengthy list. He said he
did appreciate the options laid out, and agreed that applying all available technology would
enhance the process. Ms. Hauth said they had some very good volunteers and talent in
Hillsborough, and the time that it took to support a committee took away from the time that
could be spent on the rewrite process. She said technology would allow the opportunity for
anyone interested to participate in the process.
8:05:52 PM Mr. Remington agreed with Mr. Warren and Commissioner Hallman, and
believed it would be nice for a lot of the reasons heard at the hearing to accomplish the rewrite
without a moratorium. He said that Option 1C would put the burden of cost on applicants for
peer review, and believed that might even be something they might want to continue to do after
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the rewrite was accomplished. Mr. Remington said he was curious about how that could be
effectively implemented over the course of the rewrite, and the criteria for how and when that
would be applied.
Planning Board member Dan Barker said one of the options was to reduce customer service, and
asked if that meant "closing the door" except for specified times. Ms. Hauth said she had looked
at a worst case scenario of being available to the public only on Mondays and Fridays, and the
other three days she would not be available to staff or to the public.
Mr. Barker asked if spending even a year at that reduced customer service level would really
change the public's perception of Town government. Mr. Peterson said he did not have an
answer, but having talked about that after the hearing his question was what would it take for the
staff to be able to address most of the interests that had been raised by everyone at that hearing.
He said the way he had viewed the options was to get the rewrite done in nine months without a
moratorium, and then decide what it would take to give staff the necessary support and still
provide a reasonable amount of customer service so that problems would be avoided. Mr.
Peterson said that may not be something that could be decided now, noting they may find that
once work began it may be necessary to hire a part-time receptionist or something of that sort.
He said he believed they needed to be flexible and practical and not get too tied down.
8:10:15 PM Mr. Barker said that sounded like a decent path, in that they could publish and
otherwise communicate open hours when a planner would be available, which would lessen the
expectation that someone would be available at all times. Ms. Hauth said that was her
expectation as well, in that she envisioned setting up a schedule when someone would be
available and would stick to that as long as necessary.
Mayor pro tem Gering said he was glad to receive all of that information, because it convinced
him that they could avoid a moratorium. He said it was now more of a question of what
measures were acceptable or most useful. Mayor pro tem Gering said he preferred the options
where they were contracting for staff and contracting for the consultant's staff. He said he liked
less the idea of having the applicants pay for their own reviews. Mayor pro tem Gering said if
the choice was between contracting for the consultant's staff and contracting for staff, he would
prefer contracting for staff.
Mr. Warren agreed, adding that setting staff up to be available for specific times was appropriate.
He said he believed that the public would accept that as long as it was known ahead of time, so
communicating that would be key.
8:13:12 PM Ms. Woodman said it was also important to frame that as a temporary process for
one year or whatever was decided. She said she agreed that people would be tolerant of that,
because Hillsborough had a reputation of customer service and responsiveness.
Commissioner Lloyd said she saw nothing wrong with asking a developer to do its own traffic
analysis, noting she thought they already did that. Ms. Hauth said they did, but she was
proposing that the Town might hire someone to review those types of analyses from the Town's
perspective rather than having staff spend the time to do it. Commissioner Lloyd said that traffic
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Page 13 of 19
and stormwater were to her the two most important issues, and agreed it would save staff time if
someone were hired to do those types of reviews.
Mayor pro tem Gering said when he had said he did not favor that one as much as other options
he was doing so from the point of view that he did not know that it would help to accelerate the
development of the new ordinance that much. Ms. Hauth agreed it would not. Mayor pro tem
Gering said as a long term strategy there was some value in that.
8:15:55 PM Mr. Remington said the one issue still out there was the question of large
development proposals that they might prefer to review under the new ordinance where there
may be new criteria. He said without a moratorium that was the one thing that could not be
prevented, and wondered if that were to happen would there be an opportunity for discussions
with applicants. Mr. Remington said the purpose of the rewrite of the ordinance was not to
become more unfriendly to developers but to catch up with the times, which could involve win
wins for everyone. He wondered if an application were to come in if the Town could request the
applicant to wait a year until the rewrite was completed and the new ordinance in place so that
the new criteria could be used in the review of the application. Mr. Remington said that might
alleviate some staff work and could prove to be mutually beneficial to the Town and the
applicant.
Commissioner Lloyd said if they delayed annexations during the rewrite period that would be
helpful, noting it would likely prevent any large projects from being submitted.
Mr. Hornik said regarding Option 1C which involved peer review, he believed the only way that
would benefit staff would be that it freed up time that might be spent on traffic or stormwater
analyses, but may only result in a few hours a week. He said with respect to Mr. Remington's
and Commissioner Lloyd's comments, in 2007 there was a State statute added that authorized
development agreements which might come into play. Mr. Hornik said if someone came in with
a proposal for a piece of property that was determined not to be consistent with the current
Zoning Ordinance but was deemed to be a really great proposal, then a development agreement
would allow the opportunity to make up the rules that would apply to that piece of property for
that particular development. He said the hearing process would be just like doing a zoning
ordinance and zoning map amendment, and it would allow you to build in specific terms that
might not otherwise be in the Zoning Ordinance but would apply to that particular piece of
property through the development review process.
8:20:52 PM Commissioner Hallman asked who would initiate a development agreement. Mr.
Hornik said the developer would have to initiate that and negotiate with the Town, and before it
was consummated there would be a public hearing process similar to a zoning ordinance or text
amendment process. Commissioner Hallman said it seemed like it would not be in the
developer's best interest because it would put them in unknown territory versus going with the
existing ordinance.
Mr. Barker said but if they did not use the existing ordinance available because they did not
know what the next ordinance would be, then they were in unknown territory in any case. He
asked would there be any gains in partnering with the County, since that could be a lower cost
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July 27, 2009 Monthly Workshop
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Page 14 of 19
planning staff. Ms. Hauth said she had heard that three of the County's most experienced
planners were taking early retirement and the County would not be in a position to replace them,
so the County would not have the staff available to lend out on contract.
8:22:55 PM Commissioner Dancy said one thing she saw as an advantage that they had as
Board members was that with major projects developers generally came forward with their
concepts and attempted to poll the Board's interest before they brought forward an application.
She said that actually gave them some control in providing staff time to complete the rewrite
without instituting a moratorium. Ms. Hauth said the big things that came in were the
annexations, and the Town Board had already built into its processes the ability to discourage
and not accept applications for annexations. She said rezonings did not have that same process,
but were discouraged as much as possible. Ms. Hauth said there were a few that could come in,
pay the fee, and attempt to go through the ordinance as it stood now.
Mayor pro tem Gering asked the Town Manager if he had any additional ideas or concerns. Mr.
Peterson responded that during the hearing possible annexations were mentioned. He said the
Board had flexibility that if an annexation application came before them and did not interest
them then they could say no. Mr. Peterson said as an example, when Ben Perry with Paliouris
Property had said that they were exploring and making progress with DOT to do a bridge
widening to address traffic issues, that was a case where if they had someone that could come
forward and widen the bridge and address the traffic concerns and improve that property, that
would be something that would potentially be worth Town staff's time to work on. He said it did
raise the bar, in that if a mediocre development were brought forward then the Town Board
could say it was not interested.
8:26:13 PM Commissioner Lowen said in a situation like that, would that not be a perfect
example where the Town could potentially get a development agreement, particularly if the
Town Board and the Planning Board agreed it was advantageous and the costs could be shifted to
the developer, especially if they were successful in rebuilding the bridge. He said if they were to
enact a moratorium then projects of that caliber would be hampered.
Ms. Woodman said if they did a combination of options and there was a bottleneck created
because of compression of the schedule, was there any legal criteria for how quickly things had
to move through the process once an application was received. Mr. Hornik said the Code at
present said that you had 60 days after an application was accepted to conduct a public hearing,
and then a certain number of days after that in which to make a decision.
8:28:09 PM Mr. Barker said they had informally talked about setting a higher bar for
application submittals, and asked was it worth putting in place something more formal requiring
a needs point analysis so that there was an entry criteria that had to be met, and even then would
not be guaranteed to go forward.
Mayor pro tem Gering said his only concern was if that would be an artificial or arbitrary hurdle,
or was it only in place to act as a speed bump.
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July 27, 2009 Monthly Workshop
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Page 15 of 19
Mr. Barker said he believed it had been said that the Town wanted energy efficiency and
transportation efficiency, and if that was their will then why not make it a rule. He said they
could say that projects had to meet LEED Silver standards or something else in order to be
accepted into the process. Mr. Barker said that would set the Town's will at a particular point
and those submitting applications would understand what the criteria was.
Commissioner Hallman said he believed that was worth looking at, particularly for developments
of 10 acres or more. Ms. Hauth asked would that be on annexations only, or would they actually
want to amend the ordinance.
Mr. Hornik said he believed they would want to set that as a threshold across the board to apply
to all applications. He said potential problems could arise when you had property that was zoned
appropriately for a particular kind of project, and someone came in and said all they needed was
a subdivision plat or site plan approval. Mr. Hornik said that was where the threat lay, and did
not know how many real possible significant development opportunities were like that. He said
another scenario would be someone wanting to create a Special Use District which required a
legislative act, so the Town Board would have discretion on that as well.
8:31:45 PM Mr. Remington said things that required a Conditional Use Permit would be in
that category as well, because they would come to the Board of Adjustment. He said the criteria
used by the BOA sometimes were open to interpretation, but if the criteria were met there was no
discretion on the part of the BOA to say no. Mr. Homik said in that context, if someone came in
and put forth competent evidence that an application did not meet that criteria, then the Board
could then accept the evidence that said the criteria was not met and deny it.
Mr. Remington said that was a two -sided thing, in that there was not a lot of discretion to turn
something down and there was not a lot of discretion to accept something. Mr. Homik agreed.
8:33:06 PM Planning Board member Kathleen Faherty asked if in order to compress the
schedule that it would cost between $35,000 to $45,000 for additional technology and additional
staff of some type, above the cost of the consultant. Ms. Hauth said that was correct. Ms.
Faherty said then instead of spending time they would be spending more money.
Commissioner Lloyd asked was it worth polling the Boards to see which option was the most
favorable.
Mayor pro tem Gering said he believed that was a useful suggestion, adding he believed they had
reached a point where the Board members could provide comments on where they were and
what they would like to see.
Mr. Remington said he wanted to avoid a moratorium and hiring a contract employee was likely
a good option if funds were available.
Mr. Warren agreed with Mr. Remington, in that he would like to see Ms. Hauth move forward
with hiring a contractor or whatever staff needed in order to move forward with the rewrite.
July 27, 2009 Monthly Workshop
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Page 16 of 19
8:35:42 PM Commissioner Hallman said he, too, would like to try that option, and leave it to
staff to work out the best possible way to move forward. He said he would like to have more
information about Mr. Barker's suggestion to raise the bar for any applications received during
the rewrite process.
Commissioner Dancy said she wanted to avoid a moratorium as well, and believed that Option
1A was the best way to proceed, which was the option for contract staff, or whichever option Ms.
Hauth believed would be the most helpful.
Commissioner Lowen agreed with Commissioner Dancy, no moratorium and either Option 1
or 1B. He said he believed Ms. Hauth was in the best position to make the decision as to which
was the most beneficial to staff to get done what they needed to get done. Commissioner Lowen
asked had Ms. Hauth put the options in order of her preference. Ms. Hauth said she had not
intended to do that, but they were in the order she believed was the most beneficial.
Commissioner Lowen said in that case he would agree with whatever Ms. Hauth deemed to be
the most effective option.
8:37:20 PM Commissioner Lloyd said she agreed that Ms. Hauth was in the best position to
make the decision of either contract staff or something else. She said she liked the idea of
having outside firms provide reviews of traffic and stormwater analyses, and was something they
should consider for the future as well. Commissioner Lloyd said she was not in favor of a
moratorium, and did not like the idea of Ms. Hauth not being as available to respond to her when
she had questions. She said she was always concerned about budget matters, but understood
there was a cost involved.
Ms. Faherty agreed with comments already made regarding no moratorium and allowing Ms.
Hauth to decide on the most appropriate staff to hire.
Mr. Barker said the idea of internal temporary contract staff was a good one, and well
communicated reduced public service hours was necessary. He said informally or formally
stating that the Town would expect some form of green building was also preferable.
Ms. Woodman said she supported one or all of the options 1A -1D, and believed the more that
Ms. Hauth was involved in the rewrite process the better.
8:40:01 PM Mayor pro tem Gering said he agreed as well, adding his only other comment was
that he would like to see the timeframe as short as possible while still maintaining the quality.
He asked that Ms. Hauth let them help her guard against the inevitable creep that would occur
when demands began to increase and the resolve might falter somewhat. Mayor pro tem Gering
said sooner rather than later for the rewrite would be to everyone's benefit. He said it appeared
they had a consensus that there would be no moratorium, so that urgency was now gone. He
thanked everyone for their dedication.
The Planning Board was excused from the remainder of the meeting.
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Added Item: Innovation Award Committee Member
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Pagel 7 of 19
8. Consideration of contracts with Clarion Associates and The Brough Law Firm to assist
the Town with the Zoning Ordinance Rewrite
8:42:01 PM Ms. Hauth said now that they had reached consensus to have a nine -month
process, she would ask for authorization for staff to work with Clarion and The Brough Law
Firm to make those changes to the contract. She said the dollar figures for the consultant would
not change, only the timeframe for work to be completed. Ms. Hauth said it would be helpful if
the Board would authorize signatures on the contracts with those modifications necessary to
compress the timeframe, otherwise all of August would be lost.
Mr. Hornik said the scope of the work would remain the same, but the timeframe in which that
work would be completed would be compressed.
8:43:42 PM Upon a motion by Commissioner Hallman, seconded by Commissioner Lloyd, the
Board moved to approve signature authority for contracts with Clarion Associates and The
Brough Law Firm to assist the Town with the Zoning Ordinance Rewrite to be modified by staff
to reflect a nine -month compressed timeframe for work to be completed by a vote of 4 -0. The
motion was declared passed.
Ms. Hauth thanked the Board for its confidence in her, noting it was incredibly heartwarming to
sit and hear the Board say that they had confidence in her to make the right decisions. She said
she appreciated that and wanted to publicly express her thanks.
Mr. Siler said with regards to the approval of the contract, $80,000 was already in the budget so
there was no issue there. Ms. Hauth said those funds had been carried forward for years in
anticipation of the rewrite.
8:45:17 PM Mr. Peterson said as far as funding the additional $5,000 for technology and
whatever additional staff needs proved to be, they would likely used Contingency funds. He said
he would bring forward a budget amendment at some point in the future to amend the
Contingency fund budget.
Commissioner Hallman said that Mayor Stevens had the idea to rent office space, perhaps at the
old Walmart, to provide Ms. Hauth an office specific to the rewrite task. Ms. Hauth said they
actually had a space designated on campus, which would remain confidential. She said that
Mayor Stevens had expertise in setting up processes and framing questions, and had volunteered
at the outset of the process to frame the questions being asked of the public to make sure that
they got the issue properly framed so that they moved forward most expeditiously.
8:46:43 PM Mr. Peterson said in regards to the email about the First Annual Customer Service
and Innovation Awards Program for employees, they were putting together the committee to
review the employees that were nominated. He said he wanted to ask if there was a Board
member or even two that would be interested in serving on that committee.
Commissioner Dancy volunteered to serve. Commissioner Hallman volunteered to serve as an
alternate.
Added Item: Poet Laureate
July 27, 2009 Monthly Workshop
Approved: September 14, 2009
Page 18 of 19
8:47:26 PM Commissioner Hallman suggested that the Arts Council would be the most
appropriate body to take that process on, if they were given clear direction as to eligibility. He
suggested they open it up not just to a Poet Laureate but to an Artist Laureate as well to broaden
the pool of available applicants. Commissioner Hallman said he would like to know what the
Board's thoughts were on those suggestions, adding that the Town Board could retain final
approval.
Mayor pro tem Gering asked had Commissioner Hallman approached anyone on the Arts
Council in regards to that.
Commissioner Hallman stated he had talked with John Delconte about it, and his concern was
that as long as the Arts Council was clear about what the criteria would be then he believed they
might be willing to take that on. He said that Mr. Delconte was particularly interested in an
Artist Laureate.
8:48:42 PM Mayor pro tem Gering said the Board had discussed criteria when the first Poet
Laureate was named. Commissioner Hallman said that was correct and he had given Mr.
Delconte that information, and whether the existing Laureate got to reapply was part of his initial
hesitancy.
Mayor pro tem Gering asked had those criteria been put in writing. Commissioner Hallman said
it was contained in the minutes of that meeting. Mayor pro tem Gering said he would like to
have a volunteer to extract those criteria from the minutes so that they were more durable for use
with an ongoing process.
8:49:43 PM Commissioner Lowen asked was the suggestion to have an Artist Laureate in
addition to a Poet Laureate. Commissioner Hallman responded no, it was to open the process up
to any artist.
Commissioner Lloyd said if the Arts Council were able to narrow the selection down, would the
Town Board then make the choice. Commissioner Lowen said the Arts Council would bring
forward their recommendation, but wondered if they should provide the top two candidates and
let the Town Board decide.
Commissioner Dancy said it would not matter to her.
Commissioner Hallman said he believed they were all aware that the current Poet Laureate
would like to retain that title indefinitely, but the last time the Board had discussed that they had
decided the designation should rotate.
18
Commissioner Lloyd asked should they set a time limit that someone could hold the title.
Commissioner Hallman said they had done that but that time had lapsed, and that was why it was
being discussed now.
8:50:53 PM Mayor pro tem Gering asked if anyone disagreed with Commissioner Hallman's
suggestion. There was no objection from the Board. He asked Commissioner Hallman to
summarize what the new process would be.
Commissioner Hallman said he would contact Mr. Delconte and ask him to take the suggestion
to the Arts Council with the expectation that it would be a two -year term, that it would rotate to
someone new every two years, and that it would be open to any of the arts. He said it could be a
visual artist, a poet, or whatever, with the expectation that the recipient would promote
Hillsborough through the arts. Commissioner Hallman said he believed what the Town Board
had to be comfortable with was if the Arts Council sent forward a recommendation that the
Town Board would approve it.
Mayor pro tem Gering said he believed that was fair, and believed they had a consensus to move
forward in that manner.
9. Other
8:52:01 PM Mayor pro tem Gering reminded the Board that there were no regular or
workshop meetings in August, but there would be a continuation of the Joint Planning Hearing
on August 20 with the Planning Board.
10. Adjourn
July 27, 2009 Monthly Workshop
Approved: September 14, 2009
Page 19 of 19
8:52:46 PM Upon a motion by Commissioner Dancy, seconded by Commissioner Lloyd, the
Board moved to adjourn the Workshop by a vote of 4 -0. The motion was declared passed.
Respectfully submitted,
Donna F. Armbrister, MMC
Town Clerk
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