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HomeMy Public PortalAbout11-30-2009 Special MeetingTown of Hills Since 1754 gh MINUTES Board of Commissioners Special Meeting Alternatives to Elizabeth Brady Road Discussion Monday, November 30 2009 — 7:00 p.m. Town Barn ABSENT: Commissioner Brian Lowen, absence excused. November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 1 of 13 PRESENT: Mayor Tom Stevens, Commissioners Frances Dancy, Mike Gering, E. Eric Hallman, and Evelyn Lloyd. STAFF PRESENT: Town Manager Eric Peterson, Assistant Town Manager /Public Works Director Nicole Ard, Planning Director Margaret Hauth, Police Chief Clarence Birkhead, Lieutenant Brad Whitted, Sergeant Buddy Parker, Senior Planner Tom King, and Planner Aspen Price. Open the Special Meeting 1. Meeting Purpose and Format 7:02:43 PM Mayor Stevens opened the Special Meeting at 7:02 p.m. He did not read the public charge but noted it would be followed. He said the purpose of tonight's meeting was to discuss a package of improvements and studies as an alternative to constructing any alignment of U -3808, the Elizabeth Brady Road extension. Mayor Stevens said the focus would be less on the merits of Elizabeth Brady Road as a build or no build, but more on some various alternatives that they wanted considered as options. He said they wanted to consider ways to deal with traffic in Hillsborough and what were the relative merits of various ways to move forward. Mayor Stevens stated that DOT would be holding its public hearing next Monday, and that was the time to speak to DOT about their opinions. Mayor Stevens said that what they wanted to accomplish tonight was to give the public information so that if they wanted to speak at next week's DOT public hearing that they would have the necessary information that they as a Town had been thinking about. He said as they proceeded tonight, the Board and the Planning Director would provide information so that the public would be better informed. Mayor Stevens said that no decisions would be made tonight, and the Board would continue to look at all aspects of the project. He said the Board was not likely to be making comments at the public hearing, because they wanted to be able to listen to the public comments. Mayor Stevens said there would be a 30 -day comment period after that public hearing to allow those who had been unable to attend to provide comments to DOT. Mayor Stevens said if the Board was to come to some decisions regarding Elizabeth Brady Road, then that would likely take place at its December meeting. He said the Board would then prepare 1 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 2 of 13 a resolution of its decisions to be forwarded to DOT. Mayor Stevens asked that those who wanted to speak tonight to please keep their comments short and to the point. He also asked that speakers not repeat comments or ideas of others that had already been offered, but to simply comment that they agreed. 2. Status report on U -3808 and Next Steps: - Draft Environmental Impact document - NCDOT public hearing, December 7, 7:00 p.m., Cameron Park Elementary School Alignment recommendation at close of public comment period — January 2010 - Outcomes of Town meeting with Secretary Conti Planning Director Margaret Hauth provided some basic information on Elizabeth Brady Road: • There were now 4 options, narrowed down from 7 original options that were analyzed in the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (EIS). One of those 4 options was a "do nothing" option, and all were addressed in the EIS document. • The EIS looked at impacts to the natural and built environment, and each was analyzed for the 4 different alternatives. • The EIS did not include a recommendation at this time; the recommendation would be forthcoming sometime in January after the public comment period was concluded. All of the public comments would be included in the process and would be used by DOT to help formulate their recommended alignment. • The main issue that had come forward as the engineering studies had been done was that it appeared that the benefits that would be realized from any of the alternatives may not be sufficient to outweigh the impacts. The projections of traffic removed from Churton Street did not seem as compelling as had been expected. Balanced with that was the concern that if the Town was no longer interested in the project that the Town's congestion problems would no longer have any priority from DOT's standpoint. 3. Introduction of list of potential alternative projects package: Existing requests /projects Update and modernize I -85 interchange 165 on NC 86 - Update the Feasibility Study for the widening of S. Churton Street (TIP R -2825) and construct recommended improvements - Conduct a Feasibility Study for the construction of Orange Grove Street extension to US 70 Business - Conduct a Feasibility Study for the alignment of Eno Mountain Road and Mayo Street (TIP U -3436) and construct recommended improvements - Operational support funding for an in -Town circulating bus route New requests: - Designate a NC 86 Bypass - Enhanced signage east, west, and north of Hillsborough to direct through traffic to use the US 70 connector and interstates - A Downtown Traffic Demand Management and efficiency assessment 2 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 3 of 13 - Assess the impacts and viability of extending US 70A west to connect with Faribault Lane - Community railroad crossing assessment - Assess the condition of the Eno River bridge and railroad bridge on S. Churton Street 7:10:21 PM Ms. Hauth noted that the list provided with the agenda was developed by staff, and it was not meant to imply that the Town Board endorsed any of them. She said it was simply the best list they could come up with based on what they knew. Ms. Hauth said that the five projects listed under Existing Requests /Projects were projects the Town had requested funding for from DOT that would address congestion issues. She said one of those projects already had funding from DOT, so taking the State's budget issues into concern none of those five projects impacted the State's bottom line in that they were not adding additional requests by supporting those five projects. Ms. Hauth said although most did not have assigned funding they were in the TIP (Transportation Improvement Program, the State's multi -year spending plan) as an identified future need, which was sometimes the first hurdle in getting on the State's radar. She then went through the list to provide clarity: - Update and modernize 1 -85 interchange 165 on NC 86 — Ms. Hauth said that Exit 165 was on I -85 and was the NC 86 interchange near Hampton Point. She said on most days that interchange was overwhelmed and if nothing else it needed turn lanes, bicycle, and pedestrian improvements. She said that project was already a part of the I -85 widening project that DOT had on its radar with identified future funding but no current funding. Ms. Hauth said it would improve traffic flow on a route parallel to Churton Street and would alleviate safety concerns at that interchange. - Update the Feasibility Study for the widening of South Churton Street (TIP R -2825) and construct recommended improvements — She said this project had been on the TIP for well over 10 years and was the Town's number one priority. Ms. Hauth said the feasibility study had been completed but it did not encompass everything that had been in the Churton Street Corridor Plan. She added that the changes brought about by Waterstone had not been taken into consideration in that feasibility study, including the 1 -85 interchange at 154, but the plan did include both the widening and the installation of bike and pedestrian improvements from I -40 up to about Orange Grove Road. - Conduct a Feasibility Study for the construction of Orange Grove Road extension to US 70 Business — This was the Town's second priority in their last request to DOT for funding. She said this road was critical to the development of the rail station, and it would improve east -west movement in Town which helped to eliminate north -south trips. Ms. Hauth said this study included the underpass under the railroad and bike and pedestrian facilities. She said changes had been suggested to Tuscarora as the Rail Station Task Force had tried to determine where the best place was to make the crossing. Ms. Hauth said one of the main things they were trying to accomplish with this road was that east -west flow of traffic but they had to address the rail line in the middle, and the best way to do that was to go underneath it rather than over it while working with the existing grades. She said where that intersection was with US 70A was at this point very much up for discussion. 3 4 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 4 of 13 - Conduct a Feasibility Study for the alignment of Eno Mountain Road and Mayo Street (TIP U -3436) and construct recommended improvements — This project would align Eno Mountain Road with Mayo Street off of Orange Grove Road. She said aligning those two intersections would make it easier to install a traffic signal, make some safety improvements in the area, and facilitate that back road in -town bypass for local traffic. Ms. Hauth said they would never advertise that back road for the traveling public to use, but it was making a local short-cut somewhat more convenient. Operational support funding for an in -Town circulating bus route — The County had applied for and received funding to initiate a circulator bus in Town to begin early in the spring. She said the funding was for operation and some capital for the first couple of years, and their request would be to continue that funding for an extended period of time. Ms. Hauth said the route would capture major destinations in Town and connect to the Orange bus route that ran daily to Chapel Hill. She said the request for additional funding would increase the frequency of service and allow the County and the Town the time to investigate whether they could support a fare -free system in Town. Ms. Hauth noted that CMAQ funds, which was Congestion Mitigation Air Quality, was the funding source from the Department of Transportation. Ms. Hauth said the next list was new requests, and many of them were studies rather than new roads. She said a fair number would have a medium to small investment in order to implement. 7:18:48 PM Responding to a question regarding the bus route, Ms. Hauth said they would not be getting more routes from Chapel Hill above what they had now, noting it was to create an internal circulator that would also connect to the Chapel Hill route. Ms. Hauth provided a brief description of the new requests: - Designate a NC 86 Bypass — Request that DOT analyze the viability of designating either the US 70 connector or some other route or combination of routes as a bypass for NC 86. She said that would be an effective way to move traffic off of Churton Street who did not have a destination in Town. - Enhanced signage east, west, and north of Hillsborough to direct through traffic to use the US 70 connector and interstates — Request to improve signage to direct travelers to take advantage of some of the short-cuts available. Ms. Hauth said the signage would tell travelers that if they were going to 86 North to Virginia to get off there, which would relieve congestion in several areas. She said the request would also be to sign the US 70 bypass north of Town to send travelers going to Greensboro west and travelers going to Raleigh east to keep them on US 70 rather than having them come through Town on Churton Street. - A Downtown Traffic Demand Management and efficiency assessment — This would assess turning movements, signals, and perhaps removing some on- street parking to improve traffic flow through the downtown. Ms. Hauth said it would almost be combined with other improvements for the downtown, such as the signage and widening of sidewalks, which might make the downtown a little more congested and help to convince travelers going through to other designations to take the alternate routes. She said this was a reverse idea in that they were not trying to make it easier for travelers to come through Town but to slow traffic and make it less convenient to come through Town. Ms. Hauth said it was almost a traffic calming measure combined with some signage. She said the Parking Study for the downtown recently completed would be presented to the Town Board in two weeks, and that study indicated there was sufficient parking but it was sometimes difficult to find or was inconvenient. Ms. Hauth said the Parking Study would show a way that there would be no net loss in parking, but actually a net gain. Assess impacts and viability of extending US 70A west to connect with Faribault Lane — Ms. Hauth said when they had talked about the Gateway Center property it was discussed that in changing the access to the Gateway building and changing Exchange Park Lane and not allowing left turns, they were impacting people's ability to move around Town that lived off of Exchange and Faribault. She said it was discussed briefly that you could take US 70A across Churton Street and connect it to Exchange Park Lane and bring traffic out there, creating another east -west traffic opportunity. Ms. Hauth said some engineering work would need to be done to determine if there was any true benefit to that and to determine what the impacts might be. Community railroad crossing assessment — Ms. Hauth said the Orange Grove Road extension mentioned earlier would obviously impact the railroad crossing and required the State's approval, and if they opened that discussion of crossing the railroad then the rail lines would want to discuss closing other rail crossings. She said the idea was to look at all the crossings in Town in a comprehensive approach rather than any single crossing and look at what all the positive and negative impacts might be, and then determine which one if any they could give up in return for other sorts of improvements. Assess the condition of the Eno River bridge and railroad bridge on South Churton Street — Ms. Hauth said the Eno River bridge and the railroad bridge on Churton Street were not within the scope of the South Churton Street Plan. She said they were talking about major bike and pedestrian improvements in the South Churton Street Plan and the creation of a rail station just south of the river, and not including improvements on those two bridges would create an immediate bottleneck. Ms. Hauth said they needed to know the condition of those bridges to determine whether or not they could stand improvements or what the timing might be for replacement of the bridges so that they would be replaced and the improvements put in place at the appropriate time. 7:26:55 PM Mayor Stevens said they were already beginning to float a number of those ideas through DOT. He said with the help of Senator Eleanor Kinnaird, Commissioner Hallman, the Town's representative to the MPO (Metropolitan Planning Organization), and he had met with Secretary of Transportation Conti to discuss them. Mayor Stevens said Secretary Conti had spoken a number of times of wanting to look at various alternatives in the community, and believed they were open to ideas but had made it clear that they would not want to swap one project for another. He said after some follow -up meetings with various DOT officials he believed they were receptive to a number of the ideas Ms. Hauth had outlined, and were assisting the Town in looking for alternative means of funding, Commission Hallman said there were two points the public should understand, and one was timing. He said that Hillsborough was in Division 7 and competed with Greensboro for projects, and even if they pushed full speed on any single road project the best they could hope for would 5 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 5 of 13 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 6 of 13 be 5 to 10 years and perhaps more. Commissioner Hallman said it was important to understand that what was being discussed was far off into the future. He said the MPO, which was the regional transportation planning board, was looking at a 2035 Long Range Transportation Plan. Commissioner Hallman said his second point was that for an imperfect analogy they could not "stop the bleeding," that all they could do was slow it down. He said you could not expect traffic to get any better, that the best they could hope for was that it would not worsen as fast. 7:28:57 PM Mayor Stevens said by having the local public using shortcuts and having a circulator bus route which would allow people to move about with their cars, would be economically feasible, even more so than the cost of new roads which even if built would be congested. A member of the audience said that on St. Mary's around Cameron Park School, traffic was reaching the condition of danger for anyone dropping off children or picking them up. He said the State had been sitting on the number counts for over a year without releasing them, blaming the reason on being understaffed. He asked how they could convince the State to at least begin the first stage of a study, particularly when the safety of children was involved. Mayor Stevens said that was a good comment and they would include that in the comments to be forwarded to the State. He said they did believe there may be some small funding sources for smaller specific projects like the one he had suggested, so it would definitely be put on the list. 4. Public Comments on Alternative Package, Additional Suggestions, and Road Projects in General 7:31:04 PM Jared Barnhill said to him the most important projects were the circulating bus route that would encourage mass transit, and the other may be the signage through Durham that would direct traffic to shortcuts. He said a third would be to try to use existing roadways, and the expansion of I -85 at the 165 interchange would be the most feasible. Mr. Barnhill said his question would be did those projects have to be mutually exclusive or could they be combined into a package. Ms. Hauth said the intent was for them to go forward as a package, and not to choose one over the other because they all needed to work together. Mr. Barnhill said also important would be providing a rail station, which would enhance the move towards mass transit. Jane Gaede remarked she had fought against the Elizabeth Brady Road extension for 35 years, but applauded the alternative packages that had been put forth. She said she particularly liked that extension to include the rail station with Orange Grove Road coming across. Ms. Gaede said the addition of the rail station and rail transportation was very important. She said in regards to funding, she and others had met with Senator Kinnaird who had stated that it was not only possible but it had been done in other districts to shift funds from one project to another. Ms. Gaede said she understood that DOT was saying it could not be done, but believed it was more that they did not want to do it rather than they could not do it. 6 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 7of13 Jim Ray said that they needed to address the traffic problems, and believed they should "take the money and run" to get the problems addressed. 7:34:53 PM Rollin Russell commented that they were all aware that it would not alleviate traffic on Churton Street to any really appreciable amount to have a bypass, and therefore the projects being proposed to him were the better part of wisdom. He said that the Environmental Impact Statement summary had talked about the impact on the natural environment, and had said that for the two alternatives that would cause bridges to be built across the Eno River that the actual count of endangered species had not yet been done. Mr. Russell said it appeared to him that as long as the EIS had taken to prepare and if in fact a decision about an alternative was going to be taken in January, then it was profoundly disingenuous not to have done that count so that they would know exactly what they were talking about in terms of environmental impact when a decision was made. A member of the audience asked about the comment about projects being a "package deal." Ms. Hauth responded that they were being offered as a package, and DOT had informed them that funding for projects could not be swapped. She said as a result they would be applying for funding for each of the projects individually. 7:37:24 PM Commissioner Gering asked what the effect would be on the existing projects in the TIP, noting it seemed to him that those projects' chances of getting funding would improve. Ms. Hauth said possibly it could if the funding was really there and available. She said the projects were assigned competitive points based on what their perceived benefits were, and many of the projects were so small that they would not compete very well on a regional basis. Ms. Hauth said only the interstate interchanges and South Churton Street would compete well, noting that the other projects that required study and required that DOT buy into the concept of designating a bypass was something they would have to negotiate individually with DOT. Commissioner Hallman said Ms. Hauth was correct, but the MPO, who were the elected officials that represented their interests, had put together their top 25 projects that covered Durham, Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Orange County and Durham County, and the three projects that were in the alternative package all were in that top 25 projects. But, he said, that was the MPO's rating system and not DOT's rating system. Commissioner Hallman added that the preliminary figure they had received was that Elizabeth Brady was about $60 million and the three projects that Ms. Hauth had mentioned were about the same estimate. Mayor Stevens said it was not as if Hillsborough was allocated money and they would be allowed to use it in a different way. He said they had been trying to build a case that if what they were trying to do was ameliorate the traffic issue then there was a package of projects that would have a similar or more beneficial effect. Mayor Stevens said it may free up some funding to do those projects, but that was a big "maybe." 7:40:24 PM Kathleen Ponder said to make Hillsborough walkable they had to find ways to address the traffic problem. She said she hoped that when they were thinking about a walkable Hillsborough that they also thought about a wheelable Hillsborough. Ms. Ponder said her 7 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11,2010 Page 8 of 13 husband was in a wheelchair and what made it possible for them to enjoy the Town were the handicapped parking places in front of businesses such as Tupelos that allowed him to participate. Mary McCarthy asked had any thought been given to extending Orange Grove Road to Valley Forge rather than coming out on US 70A. Tom Campanella, a member of the Planning Board and the Rail Station Task Force, responded that the Task Force had discussed that in a preliminary manner as a part of the plan for the Collins property. He said taking Orange Grove either under the tracks and connecting to US 70 in the vicinity of Tuscarora and bringing a road around and connecting to Valley Forge did appear to be a second option that was further out in the future, because it would involve crossing property that was not currently owned by the Town. Mr. Campanella said that option was in the preliminary master plan that the Task Force was working on. Crawford Goodwin pointed out that the planning in general and the EIS did not recognize the value of Central Park. He said they had an extraordinary opportunity to have forever a large body of protected land which people now used for walking and enjoying the outdoors, and that needed to be taken into account as a serious environmental issue. 7:43:43 PM Mayor Stevens said that the Mountains to the Sea Trail would follow the Eno River, and the Town did have a large tract of land there that was important to them. Frank Craig, representing the Historic Speedway Group, stated that he did not believe the Town needed to loose any more of its history, from the Revolutionary War all the way to NASCAR. He said the Occoneechee Speedway was one of the first three NASCAR tracks, and there was a lot of history tied up with that. Mr. Craig agreed with Mr. Goodwin that Central Park needed to be preserved for the people. Robin Jacobs, with the Eno River Association, urged the Board not to give up when DOT said that funding could not be swapped. She said they always said that, but Durham after almost 40 years had gotten DOT to move some money around. Ms. Jacobs pointed out that that alternative six for Elizabeth Brady Road took out fewer houses although there would still be a "horrible" impact on all the houses that it did not take out. She said it looked better environmentally on paper because it was not crossing the river, but actually she would ask them to take a good look at the topography because the road would parallel the river and the runoff from the road would wash into the river for a longer distance. Ms. Jacobs said there would also be tons of cut and fill involved, and environmentally it may be worse that just building a bridge across the river. She said she was not saying take out the houses, but to realize what they were looking at was not just a flat piece of paper. 7:47:37 PM Tom Campanella strongly urged the Board to endorse the Orange Grove connector from Churton Street to Highway 70A. He said that was a rare road project that actually in the long term was very sustainable, noting that it unlocked the Collins property and allowed for viable development with a train station that would put them back on the national rail grid for the first time in 45 years. Mr. Campanella said the rail station would give them access to 8 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 9 of 13 future commuter rail projects that were already being discussed and would also allow the Collins property to be developed for other purposes, such as for parks and recreation uses. Mayor Stevens said when he had talked with DOT officials today, that was one project that they had expressed interest in. Dave Gephart, President of the Poplar Ridge Homeowners Association, stated that the EIS indicated that Poplar Ridge and the adjoining slopes were designated as significant natural heritage areas. So, he said, the State had studied their area and had found flora and fauna that did not exist anywhere else in the Piedmont as well as some rare animal life. Mr. Gephart said as those who had tried to dig into the ground for gardens had discovered, the ground was nothing but rock. He said he could only presume that the entire roadbed would have to be blasted, and that was all above the Eno River. Mr. Gephart said the sight pollution looking from Town up onto the ridge would be great, and that none of the sites really offered any benefit. He said the other projects that staff had detailed were really better alternatives, especially the signage that would help to bypass some of the traffic on US 70. Mr. Gephart said the sooner the Town could implement its Wayfinding signage the better, noting he believed that would help the traffic situation as well. 7:51:49 PM Andrea Shapiro said that Alternative Six would be dreadful for Poplar Ridge, and that Alternatives Three and Four would be dreadful for St. Mary's Road. She suggested that circulating buses were a great idea, but connecting to the bus to Chapel Hill was not great when that bus stopped so early in Hillsborough. Ms. Shapiro suggested they include in the plan that bus service to Chapel Hill go later into the afternoon so that more people could take advantage of it to commute to and from work. She also suggested that the rail plan include light rail to RDU Airport. Renee Price said that she was pleased that the Town and the County was working together with DOT, and that in the meeting with Secretary Conti he had said he was committed to working with Hillsborough to bring about a better plan for funding. She said in looking at the alternatives for Elizabeth Brady Road, she suggested that while they were trying to divert through - traffic that they think about Hillsborough as a destination that was walkable and was a place people wanted to visit and enjoy. Bill Crowther commented that he had been encouraged to see that Alternative 1, the no build, included that if that option was chosen then all the other projects the Town might be interested in could still happen. Annette Jurgelski, representing the Orange- Chatham Group of the Sierra Club, said that historically they had opposed the road from the very beginning for its potential contamination of the river, destruction of prime forest and native wildlife habitats, and the destruction of a proposed wildlife corridor in the Orange County Comprehensive Plan. She said if Elizabeth Brady extension was ever built that the backlash would be considerable. 9 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 10 of 13 Betty Eidener stated she was the former chair of the Orange County Planning Board 25 years ago. She said they had worked with the people from Lawrence Road and St. Mary's Road and others, at that time, to put off the building of the bridge which was not designated to divert traffic from Hillsborough, but was designated to allow Treyburn easy access to I -85 and I -40. Ms. Eidener said that Hillsborough was not even in the mix at that time, so building the bridge continues even though St. Mary's Road was now the historic road. She said instead they had East Durham as a way to get to Treyburn and the Eno connection was defeated by Durham, so that was all past history. Ms. Eidener said in the DOT plan they were now looking at NC 86 as an artery to Virginia in the next 50 years, and that arterial 4 -lane road to Virginia would go past Hillsborough. She said it was "ridiculous" to have traffic head left across Elizabeth Brady Road when it could go right and connect where the road was already 4 lanes. Ms. Eidener said 25 years ago DOT had not been interested in Hillsborough nor were they interested in keeping traffic out of Hillsborough, it was Treyburn and Virginia that they were interested in, so if they said they had to do that then they were still not interested in Hillsborough. She said the Town Board needed to be firm and not let that happen. 7:59:23 PM Dan McGrew said the idea of bringing Elizabeth Brady through as a relief for traffic was ridiculous. He said you could not move around Cameron Park during the commute hours, and the only reason for having Elizabeth Brady was to get traffic off Churton Street during the commute crush. Mr. McGrew said the only way for that to happen would be to go across people's front yards; otherwise, everything would be jammed. He said it would destroy two prime historical sites and bring traffic out to be dumped onto St. Mary's Road, and there was no place for it to go. Mr. McGrew said if traffic got as far as Cameron Park then traffic would be dispersed throughout the neighborhoods, so you would destroy the St. Mary's community, all the area across from Elizabeth Brady over to Ayrmount as well as the northeast corner of the historic district. He said the only way he believed DOT could get a bypass around Hillsborough would be by way of Lawrence Road and then loop it all the way out to Efland. Statler Gilfillen said that the study seems to answer traffic flow and what it might do to relieve congestion inside Town, but much of the traffic would be dumped at the corner of US 70 and St. Mary's Road. He said he had not seen any studies that indicated what that would do to St. Mary's Road, either through increased traffic or increased demands for planning of new homes in that area. Mr. Gilfillen said they were also dealing with an historic road, and he wanted to see some sense of the impact before they proceeded any further, so that they could discuss what the impacts would be. Scott Ray, a resident of Lawrence Road, asked the Town Board to remember that "no build" did not mean no impact. He said any of the alternate routes that pushed traffic out of the Town's view did not mean that there was no environmental or human impact. Mr. Ray said that Lawrence Road was not constructed for the traffic it had and it was not meant to be a bypass, noting it was a residential area. He said it did not connect commercial areas the way Elizabeth Brady Road would from Churton Grove to Hampton Point. Mr. Ray said the Town had allowed commercial areas to be built but no updates had taken place on the roads and no desire on anyone's part to alleviate the congestion when those commercial areas were built. Now, he said, they were talking about a train station so that the people north of Town would have to drive all 10 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 11 of 13 the way to Lawrence Road and come back around to get to a train station, which was five miles. Mr. Ray said that did not improve traffic nor the Town's carbon footprint, but both of those would be created by any kind of de facto bypass. He said the only difference in the impact between the Elizabeth Brady Road residents and the Lawrence Road residents was that they could not vote. Elizabeth Read, Executive Director of the Alliance for Historic Hillsborough, said she was encouraged by the alternatives. She wanted to make sure that as they looked at diverting people from Hillsborough to other places through signage that they also include additional signage further out so that they continued to encourage visitors to come and spend their money in Hillsborough. Ms. Read said she believed including implementing some of the Churton Street corridor plans as well as some downtown beautification projects in with that funding would help make the overall downtown experience as well as the overall Hillsborough experience more satisfying. Holly Reid said she was a member of a commission called the Special Transit Advisory Commission for this region, and they worked with people from the capital area to look at what could be done with transit for the future. She said one of the most important things she had learned during that experience was that they were estimated to get a million more people in the Triangle region by 2035. Ms. Reid said most would be in Wake County and Durham County, but some would be in Orange County. She said she agreed with Mr. Campanella's comments that the alternatives to Elizabeth Brady Road supported transit oriented development, which was compact development in an area where people had alternatives to cars. Ms. Reid said there was no way they could absorb more people without providing alternatives to cars, and although none of the solutions were perfect she believed that creating more roads such as Elizabeth Brady would only encourage more car use in general. 8:07:00 PM Kim Bailey invited everyone to take the opportunity to spend some time walking around Ayrmount and the speedway, noting those were the first places she took visitors. She said there was an amazing canvas of people who visited those properties on the weekends with their families and pets. Ms. Bailey said as the discussion continued it would be good for people to understand what they would be missing. Joe Phelps asked if there was right -of -way available for the Orange Grove Road extension Ms. Hauth had talked about, or would more need to be acquired. Ms. Hauth said more would need to be acquired. Mr. Phelps asked would that cause businesses to close down. Ms. Hauth said that had been considered, but design work would be done to determine specifically whether they could fit it or not. Mr. Phelps asked how long had Elizabeth Brady Road been on the radar for funding. Ms. Hauth said since the early 1990's, but it had been on the maps since 1969. Mr. Phelps said during that time many people thought it would be a good idea, but it may not be a good idea now. He said whatever alternative was chosen, once you got on the TIP you were there for 20 years. Mr. Phelps said even if some decision was made now, it would be 5 to 10 years or longer before something was done. He asked how they made sure that the funding stayed in place and that 11 November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 12 of 13 they could plan Hillsborough around those alternatives. Mr. Phelps said if there was significant opposition then Elizabeth Brady could disappear, so they needed to think about their planning process in the future. He said he agreed with Commissioner Hallman that they would be fighting for dollars for many years, and getting it funded would be a chore. Mr. Phelps said whatever was proposed it needed to be united and that everyone try to make it work. 8:11:29 PM Mayor Stevens said the Board appreciated getting the points of view from a wide area, because whatever was done would not only have impacts on Hillsborough residents but those that lived outside the Town as well. Commissioner Hallman said that Orange County would also be weighing in on this project, noting that the entire project was in Orange County so it affected all Orange County citizens. Gregg Pacchiana said he saw no easy solution. He said if this project got delayed, it appeared there may be some opportunity to get money from the DOT even if an option came out that they did not like, in order to potentially help the downtown. Mr. Pacchiana said additionally, since there was a strong possibility that this would be delayed by DOT then he believed with just a easy push at DOT that the signage could get done since it would come from their maintenance or signage budget. Joe Coates asked if they knew what Orange County's position was. Karen Lincoln, an Orange County Transportation Planner, said in the past the County Commissioners had taken the position that they wanted the most environmentally friendly method of solving the traffic issues. She said she believed they were supportive of some of the other issues, because Orange County had included in its priority list along with Churton Street the extension of Orange Grove Road. 8:14:45 PM Commissioner Lloyd asked had she served on the Orange Grove Road Task Force. Ms. Lincoln responded she had. Commissioner Lloyd said that group had proposed some options, and understood that the bridge was still on the list. Ms. Lincoln said that was in the TIP for a feasibility study. Tommy Taylor said he wanted everyone present to take from this meeting that people would do whatever they had to in order to move from one place to another. He said if five roads were provided then he would take the road least traveled. Mr. Taylor said people would figure out which road was the least traveled no matter what you did, and that would be where they were going. Michael Carmichael said of the projects noted, the ones that appealed the most to him were those that resorted to mass transit. He said there was a massive difference in the mass transit platform in other countries and the United States. Mr. Carmichael said for example, it was difficult to walk around Hillsborough because so many areas had no sidewalks. He said as they were looking to the future about local transportation problems, they needed to remember the bicycle. Mr. Carmichael said in Europe the bicycle was a basic form of transportation, and was the way people got to their local train station and to and from work and age was not a factor. He said as well, it would be interesting to see a more extensive plan for local bus services other than just a 12 5. Summation and Next Steps November 30, 2009 Special Meeting Approved: January 11, 2010 Page 13 of 13 connector route, and that those services have realistic timetables. Mr. Carmichael said bicycles, trains, and buses should be ideas that remained in everyone's thoughts. 8:18:37 PM Mayor Stevens said it was his understanding that DOT was looking at and that Hillsborough was interested in looking at planning for what happened on the streets comprehensively rather than just looking at cars or pedestrians or storefronts. Mike Covington said he did not see the problem in Hillsborough that he saw elsewhere, noting he grew up in Burlington and worked in Durham, and had worked in RTP. He said he went to Durham and Chapel Hill regularly, and believed they should just take a deep breath and stop building subdivisions and watch carefully their rate of growth. Mr. Covington said what Hillsborough had was special and he did not want to see another Cary in Hillsborough, and asked that they please not let that happen. Mayor Stevens invited everyone to attend the public hearing next week a Cameron Park Elementary School, and thanked all for attending and being a part of the community by participating in the process. ADJOURN Upon returning to Open Session and upon a motion by Commissioner Lloyd, seconded by Commissioner Lowen, the Board moved to adjourn at 8:21 p.m. by a vote of 5 -0. The motion was declared passed. Respectfully submitted, Donna F. Annbrister, MMC Town Clerk 13