HomeMy Public PortalAbout2010-12-21 PC minutes VILLAGE OF PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION RECORD OF MINUTES DATE: December 21, 2010 Chairman Sobkoviak called the meeting of the Plan Commission to order at 7:03 p.m. and led the pledge to the flag. ROLL CALL: Present: Commissioners O’Rourke, Renzi, Sanders, Kiefer, and Chairman Sobkoviak; Park District and Fire District Absent: Commissioner Heinen, School, and Library Districts Also Present: Michael S. Garrigan; Village Planner; Steve Amann, Engineer from Baxter and Woodman, Merrilee Trotz, Recording Secretary Approval of Minutes: The minutes from December 7, 2010 were accepted as presented. DEVELOPMENT REPORT Mr. Garrigan stated the Village Board approved Bartel ’s Auto Clinic at thei r meeting December 20, 2010 and continued 3 Ace Auto to their next scheduled meeting. OLD BUSINESS: Case No. 1529-111210.CP BIRKETT PROPERTY Mr. Garrigan stated the applicant has presented a c oncept plan for property located south of 119 th just south of the Naperville Polo Club, west of the DuPage River. This is approximately 102 acres and is not currently contiguous to the Village. Th e applicant proposed two access points on 119 th Street, one going into the proposed single family pod and the second into the proposed townhome pod. The Village’s transportation plan identifies Book Road as a Major Collector. Book Road is proposed as 100 feet right of way with a divided landscape median to coincide with the realignment of Book Road to the north to link the existing terminus of Book Ro ad and south through Boughton Farm down to 127 th Street. There are no proposed stub streets to the prop erties to the west. The ap plicant proposes a series of private cul-de-sacs in the single family pod. There is a circular road proposed with a series of front-loaded townhomes with the road width being 31 feet back to back. This property is located in Countryside Residential w ith a density range of 1 unit per acre. The applicant proposes 222 residential units. The proposed density is 2.36 units per acre or a net density of 4.5 units per acre. The minimum lot size proposed is 8,153 square fe et and the average lot size will be 10,454 square feet. The applicant is proposing a front setback of 25 feet which varies from the standard 30 feet, corner side setback of 15 feet which varies from the standard 30 feet, interior yard is 10 feet which varies from Michael P. Collins VILLAGE PRESIDENT Michelle Gibas VILLAGE CLERK TRUSTEES Margie Bonuchi Paul Fay Larry Kachel Bill Lamb Garrett M. Peck James Racich
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 2 of 12 the standard of 20 feet separation between structures, and rear setback is 25 feet which varies from the standard 30 feet. If there is support for this proposed project and the proposed density then the applicant will need to change the Comprehensive Plan. Under the current Comprehensive Plan the applicant would be entitled to 49 units. The Village has adopted certain Design Guidelines such as boulevards, pocket parks, and terminal vistas, key and through lots, which have not been incorporated into this development. There is 50% open space in this development and there is an extensive trail system. Staff belie ves there is an opportunity to open up some open space vistas within the actual neighborhoods. The applicant has provided examples of the proposed single-family product that has been constructed in St. Charles and Batavia. These elements include ex tensive use of brick and stone, numerous gables and varying roof-lines and pitches. The proposed townhome units incorporate front-loade d garages while staff generally encourages rear-loaded garages. If there is support for front-loaded garages then staff would like the opportunity to work with the applicant to soften the impact of the garages. The Boughton Development immediately to the south of this development was approved with a gross density of 1.74 units per acre which is substantially lower than this proposal. Staff is looking for input of the Plan Commission and residents and neighbors who live adjacent to this proposed development. Chairman Sobkoviak asked Steve Amann, Baxter and Woodman, consulting engineer for the Village for his input. Mr. Amann stated generally you do not get much if an y engineering done at a concept plan stage. Mr. Amann stated with the increase in density there is going to be increased loading on the Village’s sewer and water systems. We would have to look at increasing sizes for interceptor sewers or increased capacity for sewage pump stations if this trend continues based on market and necessity. If the Comprehensive Plan is updated then the Village’s infrastructure plans w ould also have to be updated. Chairman Sobkoviak stated that the sewer and water system as it sits now is based upon the Comprehensive Plan. Any change to the Comprehe nsive Plan would necessarily cause changes to the engineering for water and sanitary system. Mr. Amann said if the density trend continued we woul d have to reevaluate sewer sizes and such that are planned for this area. Public works has been opposed to private roads. In many times roads that are intended to be private end up becoming public so we prefer they are built to the Village’s standards. Chairman Sobkoviak asked about a Special Service Area would be indicated in situations where we consider private roads. Mr. Amann said a Special Service Area is standard for water retention and drainage. It certainly could be used to fund any public maintenance of the streets in the area if the st reets were to become public. The general layout for storm water is good; they have lo cated the ponds in a central area along the streams.
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 3 of 12 There may be some details that would need to be work ed out at a later point as this is still in the concept stage. Cameron Bettin, Superintendent of Planning for Plainfie ld Park District, stated they had been with this applicant over a year ago and at that point there were no plans. We went through some general thinking at the time the Boughton Project was going through th e process. Mr. Bettin indicated that the DuPage Trail is not shown where it could tie into the Boughton DuPage River Trail. Mr. Bettin has not had time to meet with the Park Board and he has not met with the developer since the first general meeting. Generally we have a change to work with the develo pers. Mr. Bettin said he would like to sit down with Michael Garrigan and the developer prior to taking it to the Park Board. Chairman Sobkoviak sworn in the applicant, Rich Gu erard, representative of Melrose Holding Company who is the owner of the property. Melrose Holding Company is a wholly owned subsidiary of West Suburban Bank. Also present is their planner fro m Cemcon, Peter and engineer from Cemcon, Kim Morgart. Mr. Guerard presented their presentation showing the location of the property and demographics of the area, and trends in the building industry. Mr. Guerard stated there are a large number of 12,000 square foot lots that have not been built upon. Mr. Guerard presented a graph with the top ten selling subdivisions in the Chicago metropolitan area and the number of sales needed per year to support the infrastructure, the models, the sales staff, and overhead . Last year there were only 7 subdivisions that made the cutoff of 30 sales for the year. The mark et for the top 10 subdivisions has been in the middle $200,000 to the low middle $300,000. If sales go lowe r than that it does not support the subdivision. Mr. Guerard said less than 25% of the existing and fu ture households in the Chicago region will be made up of traditional family with parents and children, 75 % of the market is singles, married couples with no children, empty nesters, individuals that simply coha bit together and the homes are trending to be smaller with less maintenance. Since the velocity of sales is slower, the project build out is going to take much longer. Therefore phases have to be smaller, lots are going to be smaller to control the development cost. The infrastructure has to be put in first. Mr. Guerard presented the overall plan showing how th e Birkett property ties into the Boughton and then to the Brummel property to the south. Mr. Guerard stat ed they plan to meet with the Park District; there is a trail that connects with the existing trails. Mr. Guerard indicated Will County Forest Preserve may take the open space along the DuPage River and they will take the maintenance of the stormwater and incorporate it into their floodplain area. The project provides 108 single family detached homes ranging from 1900 sq. ft. to 3000 sq. ft. with a minimum lot size of 8,153 sq. ft. and the average lot si ze is a little over 10,000 sq. ft. This plan has been built in The Reserve at Royal Fox in the city of St. Charles. These manor homes are designed for a specific niche in the market. Ther e is an association to maintain th e streets, landscaping, snowplowing etc. The project provided for 144 single family attached un its. These attached units are front loaded and this plan was built in North Aurora. Commissioner Sanders stated the top ography has been used very effec tively considering the changes in the market. Commissioner Sanders said when you have higher density and private streets how do you handle the snow removal and relocation if necess ary. Commissioner Sanders asked how you compete
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 4 of 12 with others and if there were othe rs that have been successful. He asked about the siding of each home and landscape plans; and whether fences were allowed. Mr. Guerard responded that the snowpl owing would be hired out and they have locations to stack snow if necessary. Mr. Guerard stated to compete in the ma rket you have to find your own niche, you cannot compete head to head with the big public builder at the lowest price and they cannot be competing with 2500 other finished lots that are selling for less than cost and be able to have a viable project. Mr. Guerard stated you have a certain footprint for the construction and the homeowner becomes very involved in their design and their views. Mr. Guerard stated there is an association that takes care of the landscaping and grounds and agreed said fences are not allowed. Commissioner Renzi asked where the 25% figure cam e from in your presentation where you are talking about 300 months of being overbuilt. Mr. Guerard stated the statistics are numbers he re ad in the public press in the National Home Builders Journals. Mr. Garrigan stated the 25% figure has been identified by American Planning Association. Commissioner Renzi asked if that was possible that th ere is a generation of u nbuilt lots in the Village. Mr. Guerard said those statistics were put together by a metro study – that 300 months is based on today’s velocity of less than 100 units per year. Chairman S obkoviak said that could change to 30 months if we had a powerful return to days of yesteryear. Commissioner Renzi said it could be a long time. Mr. Guerard said almost every municipality has th e lot inventory issue in this region. Commissioner Renzi asked the price point. Mr. Guer ard said development costs have not gone down so he would estimate the townhomes would probably be in the $220,000 to $280,000 and the manor homes – 8 years ago they were $290,000 to $420,000 now they would probably $300,000 to over $400,000. Commissioner Renzi asked about the amount of the management dues. Mr. Guerard said he did not recall but the dues were all up front. Chairman Sobkoviak ask ed if Commissioner Sanders might be able to give us what dues are in a private development. Commissioner Sanders said it is affordability – yo u define what you want to do. When you are downsizing you may actually be upsizin g with more space but not as much property. People decide what they want to spend their money on whether it is travel or these things. In these developments you might get not just the empty nesters but those young professi onals, dual income that not have yet started their families who are looking at something they do not ha ve to maintain. Dues coul d be $225 to $300 (in an upscale development) a month – this just frees up their time to do something else. Commissioner Sanders said it is important that the developer keeps the books and everything in place and does not fund things that are not properly funded by the initial assessmen t so it does not become a burden when it is turned over to the HOA. Mr. Guerard said they have covenants and requirements for reserves. Commissioner Renzi asked if there was wetlands backing up to lots 62, 63, and 64 in the cul-de-sac or if the street could be connected into the Boughton property. Mr. Guerard said that is floodplain. Commissioner Renzi felt that there was a need for a dditional open space; he felt there were 22 -24 lots that could be replaced with open space and this would bring the density now to 1.84 to help satisfy some of the design guidelines. Commissioner Renzi felt the density needs to be lowered; there is a need for open space within the development rather than just on the east and south sides; and smaller houses belong on smaller lots. Commissioner Renzi indicated the price point is not too troubling.
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 5 of 12 Commissioner Kiefer asked if the connecting pathways were in lieu of dedicated sidewalks or pedestrian walkways. Commissioner O’Rourke asked about the up front deve lopment costs; how many of the top ten selling subdivisions belonged to Melrose Holdings and how many are age targeted. Commissioner O’Rourke asked about the square footage for single family homes. Mr. Guerard said they would hope to sell 10 single family homes and 20 townhomes; they are not trying to compete with those top ten subdivisions; this pr oduct is not going to be one of the top 10 selling subdivisions; it will go over a longer period of time; it is a higher price point and will be done in smaller phases. Mr. Guerard said they want to be in the $28 0,000 to $350,000 because th at is what the market can do right now. It may not end in that price range because this is still a couple of years away before we would build. The empty nesters may plan for a year before they plan to buy and another six months to design it and build. The townhomes would be a quicker development and sale process. Commissioner O’Rourke asked about the square fo otage of the homes. Mr. Guerard said the manor homes would be 1900 to just short of 3000 square feet; because of the smaller lots the houses look larger and a large number of the homes shown in the aerial views are ranch homes. Commissioner O’Rourke stated the developers of some of the unsold lots ar e coming back to ask for changes from the 12,000 sq. ft. lots to something sma ller. The inventory that Mr. Guerard presented may not be sold that way. Commissioner O’Rourke asked how they picked the Countrys ide zoning to build an average of 6,000 or 7,000 sq ft. lots. Mr. Guerard sai d they did not pick the area, they own the property; the next step is finding out what is economically viable project can be developed on this property. Mr. Guerard stated the properties that not entitled may be changed but those where the infrastructure is already in place probably will not be changed. Commissioner O’Rourke asked about the product a nd the missing elements as mentioned in the staff report. Mr. Guerard stated they felt they addressed some of the elements and they were willing to work to address all of it; this plan is not in stone. Mr. Guerard stated a lot of this architecture has 360 degree architecture; the issues such as the boulevard, the 360°, and the pocket parks are all things that can be worked out with staff. Chairman Sobkoviak stated these design guidelines are Plainfield’s identity and it would be difficult to give up these items that we have worked so hard to establish. Mr. Guerard said they are use to work with m unicipalities. This is the first concept plan. Commissioner Sanders asked about the maintenance of the landscaping on the western boundary that backs up to an existing residential area which is uni ncorporated. Mr. Guerard agreed that the landscape would be maintained by the HOA under the bylaws. Chairman Sobkoviak opened the meeting to public comments. Gary Krol was sworn in by Chairman Sobkoviak. Mr. Krol stated with so many houses there you are going to get people with kids. In St. Charles ther e is a golf course adjacent to the development so you will get the over 50 crowd of people there. Mr. Krol believes there will be a ton of people with kids moving in; he further stated there are developments in the Village that were building neo-traditional
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 6 of 12 homes and changed their plans to build townhomes. Mr. Krol agrees if Plainfield has a vision and they want to keep this an upscale comm unity then do not allow 3 houses to one. Mr. Krol stated that is not what they want there; did not think there was a nich e market for this and suggested they look at where building has been started but not finished. Mr. Krol did not think anyone in their subdivision was opposed to having anything back there; they know that will happen someday. Mark Chmura, resident of Champion Creek subdiv ision, was sworn in. Mr. Chmura said this development is not neighborly. Mr. Chmura said it is currently zoned for 1 unit per acre, the county area is zoned 1 unit per acre; the Boughton development is 1.76 roughly units per acre; this is too much of a cluster in a country estate atmosphere. Mr. Chmura believes there are a dozen issues where it conflicts with the Comprehensive Master Plan. Mr. Chmura felt if there is a change in the market we need to look at the Comprehensive Plan before we give any opinions or any input on development to see if it needs to be changed for this market. Mr. Chmura asked a bout the possible improvements to infrastructure and asked who would pay for these improvements. Mr. Chmura asked if West Suburban Bank had any financial interest in the Boughton development. Mr . Guerard said they could come back and ask for higher density. Mr. Chmura was concerned with the l ack of sidewalks. Mr. Guerard stated they are not that far. Mr. Garrigan stated we would not support a project without sidewalks. Mr. Guerard said sidewalks could be included. Mr. Chmura asked a bout the private streets. Mr. Garrigan stated historically for the Village to accept the streets, they would have to be comply with the Village’s standard. Mr. Chmura asked if an engineering stu dy had been completed. Mr. Guerard said yes. Mr. Guerard stated they did an extensive study. Mr . Chmura felt the Plan Commission should not comment on these plans until it was determined that the infrastructure could take it. Chairman Sobkoviak said at the concept stage engineer ing is not generally accomplished. If the project were to continue competent engineering would be required. Guy Moser was sworn in. Mr. Moser was concerned w ith the density of the property. Mr. Moser asked about the improvement to 119 th Street; and who would pay for those improvements. Mr. Guerard did not know the answer to that. The project to the north is right now planned for multi-family. Mr. Moser asked who would develop the rest of the road. Mr. Moser w as concerned with the two lane bridge as well. Mr. Moser liked this design better than designs in the past and likes the curvilinear streets. Chairman Sobkoviak asked for any other comments. No one approached the microphone. The time for public comments was closed. Commissioner Sanders said the whole 119 th Street corridor was under the planning of the county right now; but has been identified as a major arterial. Mr. Garrigan agreed 119 th Street has been identified as a SRA from Ridge Road past this site. Commissioner O’Rourke asked about the bank’s interest. Mr. Guerard was not involved in how the bank acquired the property. The bank now owns the property and they are looking to find the best economic feasible way to develop the property. Commissioner Kiefer said the extensive changes to the Comprehensive Plan especially based on the density were troublesome. Commissioner Sanders welcomed the opportunity to di scuss concepts like this so we have validation, revalidation, sanity checks and things like that give n the dynamics that play with the change in the housing market and financing and things like that so a dialog between developers and staff and then with
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 7 of 12 the Plan Commission and opening it to stakeholders and that includes the people that would buy into here. When you move into a new community you want to believe that a community that has been put on paper and flushed out and now on the market that a lot of the things as far as public streets, lighting and things like that, everything is upfront on what it is going to mean as far as assessments because they are paying Village taxes also. Commissioner Sanders said the c oncept and dialog that we are going to have tonight is a chance to visit everything, looking at it relativ e to the Comprehensive Plan. Dialog tonight has been highlighting all the concerns we have had in previous meetings at the commission. Commissioner O’Rourke is concerned that there is a si milar product like this at other locations within the Village that are not necessarily outperforming the top ten subdivisions in the market. There are challenges for all builders and the situ ation for this one is if we approve the plan and it does not take place for two years and then it turns into five years and it comes back and it changes two more times before it ever goes anywhere. Commissioner Renzi agreed with Commissioner Sande rs. Commissioner Renzi does not understand how 5 to 7 developers are competing for the same pers on who is buying a house. Basically everything is whether you want to live north, south, east or west because they are plotting the same subdivisions. Mr. Garrigan said we have 12,000 entitled lots. Commissione r Renzi asked how many lots do we have where people could come in and say we want to build that are actually developed lots. Commissioner Renzi said there is a difference in the 85 versus 86 zip codes. Mr. Garrigan said this is a different market; there are fewer improved lots in north Plainfield versus south Plainfield. Mr. Garrigan the longer distance the utiliti es have to go generally there is a higher cost. Chairman Sobkoviak stated we have indicated a lot of negative thoughts. Commissioner Renzi said Book Road r uns through this and if we get Book Road bu ilt it would be another north/south road. There are certain benefits we can get from this development a nd also if we get that kind of density there then maybe we could develop th e commercial pods that have been stuck on Rt. 59. It would be nice to get the tax base up to get our per capita in so we could actually do something to maybe then connect Drauden and have it completed as anot her north/south road. Commissioner Renzi said he also wants to see his pocket parks, vistas, make it viab le so they can build the development; but also got the density lower just by moving a few lots to 1.86 which is a whole lot better than 2.26. Chairman Sobkoviak suggested telling the petitioner wh at we like about the subdivision. Chairman Sobkoviak stated he liked the layout, the separati on of the townhomes from the single family with Book Road and gave at least the outside edges of the townhome portion a bit of a vista and view. Commissioner O’Rourke asked if townho mes were appropriate in that area. Chairman Sobkoviak thought you could mix townhomes a nd single family dwellings especially if there is a division by a boulevard. Commissioner Sanders stated the higher density will help with the building permits for the Village; rooftops for the developer of the Polo Club, the empty store fronts at 119 th . Commissioner Sanders thought all these things are part of economic growth for the municipality; if the infrastructure is not being taxed and the engineer says we may have to revisit that; it is concep tually a step in the right direction for what we have seen in the change of the dynamics. Commissioner Sanders liked the idea of strictly covenanted and bylawed type of community where it is going to enhance the property that is not only
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 8 of 12 viewed by the residents that would be moving into that neighborhood but would not create an unsightly string of fences where there are existing homes. Commissioner Sanders asked if it could be downscaled to fewer units to allow for a little more green spac e for landscaping based on the number of units that were shown in both the townhome and single family plat. Commissioner Kiefer asked if it was possible to supp ort the infrastructure with fewer units. Mr. Guerard stated there is room for flexibility with the design; th ey are willing to work with the Village to adjust the open space. Commissioner Kiefer liked the fact that 53% of the development is open space but that open space is centered near the floodplain which limits the benefit to only those people backing up to the open space. Commissioner Kiefer stated he has seen the development in St. Charles and liked it. Commissioner O’Rourke stated he liked the concept just did not think it was the right location. Commissioner O’Rourke stated the city has worked so long to establish the design guidelines and for people to predict what is or is not going to sell in th e future is a slippery slope; no one saw the down turn coming so how can we predict what is going to happen , it is always easier to say smaller lots, less of a price point is always going to sell. The balance of housing is what seems to work for most communities. We have more lots like this today than we do the co untry estates lots. Commissioner O’Rourke stated he would go along more with the Comprehensive Plan. Chairman Sobkoviak said if we change the Comp rehensive Plan, we will hold public hearings. Commissioner Renzi stated considering what is coming in off of Book Road, that discussion should probably be started as everything we are getting is a violation of the Comprehensive Plan. Commissioner Renzi stated he liked the transition from the gravel p its to townhomes, houses, basically a large berm and then the 1 acre lots. Commissioner Renzi felt it was a nice job trying to increase the density and fit it in with the locale. Commissioner Sanders stated in Augus t the state legislature passed th e common interest community act which would govern this so you have two communiti es being proposed with two neighborhoods in each one which is going to have common interest maintenance provided. Chairman Sobkoviak told the developer if you go forward with this in another form the Commission would look for connectivity to the river tra il and to all the local bike trails. Mr. Guerard said they would have the connectivity to the various trails. Mr. Guerard indicated they had what they needed. Chairman Sobkoviak concluded the public hearing on the Birkett property. A ten minute break was taken at 9:00 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 9:10 p.m. Case No. 1530-111210.CP BRUMMEL PROPERTY Mr. Garrigan stated the applicant has submitted an a pplication for a concept plan for approximately 55 acres located north of 127 th Street and east of Route 59 and west of existing Book Road. The applicant proposes to develop approximately 195 residential units. This property is contiguous to the Village. The Comprehensive Plan identifies this property as “Low Density Residential.” One of the challenging aspects is the East Norman Drain that flows through the middle of this property. The floodplain and wetlands are being preserved as open space. There is also a four acre park to the north with a trail system.
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 9 of 12 Mr. Garrigan stated there are two full access points on 127 th Street; one full access point into the multi-family component to the west and one access into the single family component from 127 th Street and continuing through the Boughton development to the north. There is one proposed stub street for development to the west. The applicant is proposing 66 foot roadways within the development which is 31 feet back to back of the curb . The applicant is proposing a ser ies of private streets within the townhome component. The Comprehensive Plan identifies this property as lo w; while the applicant is proposing 3.70 units per acre with a minimum lot size of 6,000 square feet and an average lot size of 6,995 square feet. Using the Comprehensive Plan the base density of this propert y would be 48 units per acre. The applicant is proposing reduced setbacks and building separations. The applicant will need to work w ith staff to incorporate some of our design guidelines such as pocket parks, boulevards, perhaps some variance in lot sizes , and 360 degree architecture if there is support for this concept plan. There is a general consensus among experts that residential developments in the future will look quite different from what has been developed over the past several decades. This is based on the fact that less than 25% of the existing and future hou seholds in the Chicago region will be made up of the traditional family with parents and children. A vast ma jority of the future households will be made up of singles, married couples with no children, empty nesters or individuals who simply co-habitat together. The applicant has incorporated a series of rear loaded product in the townhome component. These are generally 3 stories with end caps. Staff is generally comfortable with the architectural elevations. The product has been designed to fit on 6,400 or 6,800 square foot lots. Staff has some concerns with regard to the general la yout of the proposed plan. Staff would like to work with the applicant to incorporate some of the guidelines ; to provide some variety of lot sizes, there may be an opportunity to develop some larger lots to provide variety. Staff is looking for general input from the Plan Commission. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if any concessions were made to the developers with regard to lot sizes, setbacks, and density for the unbuildable property surrounding the Norman Drain on the west side of Rt. 59. Mr. Garrigan thought there was some flexibility to work with the developer because the restraint of the Norman Drain and wetlands coming through the pr operty. Chairman Sobkoviak said the Village granted some flexibility to the developers on the west side of Rt. 59, we should be open to the same flexibility in this case. Mr. Garrigan thought Staff was am enable to work with the applicant. Staff is not looking for all 12,000 square foot lots. The recent tre nd has been smaller lots wi th PUD’s in exchange for other amenities. Mr. Amann, Village Engineer, stated they have th e same concerns as earlier regarding the potential impact on the infrastructure, master planning, and the issues with the private streets. Mr. Bettin, Park District, stated he would like to sit do wn with them and look over their plans. He did not think the Park Board would be interested in taking the Norman Drain. Chairman Sobkoviak asked the developer to present his comments. Mr. Guerard said the same parties worked on these pl ans as the previous presentation. Mr. Guerard said this is a 55 acre site with 38% being open space. Th is has been designed with curvilinear streets. This
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 10 of 12 will be designed again with all the stormwater, floodplai n, and all the other issues that will be involved. There are trail connections designed to connect with th e trails. They initially met with the Park District but have not submitted a plan. The Park District wanted a four acre park that was high and dry. The Park District wanted to see the park generally next to open space. The developer felt it was better to put together a usable four acre public park that coul d be maintained and used rather than the smaller individual pocket parks. Mr. Guerard said this is a larger contribution than would be required. Mr. Guerard said they propose 102 single family detached homes on minimum lots of 6,000 square feet. This same project is built in Bartlett called Bartlett Po int. Mr. Guerard gave a presentation of the types of homes that are physically built in Bartlett. Mr. Guerard indicated when they return with a more detailed concept plan look at more variable lots. Mr . Guerard said the variable lot size allows them to do different things such as 3 car garages; with a shorter setback in front this allows more living space in the back yard. The average price was $280,000 to $400,000. Included in the two developments (Birkett and Brummel properties) are four different types of produc t; 2 different style detached single family products and 2 different style attached single family townhome products, one rear loaded and one front loaded with deck and patio. They are trying to design to four di fferent markets that they can segregate and build out in phases. Commissioner Sanders stated he lived in a simila r development and the people who moved into the townhomes were young professionals, dual income and no kids or widows etc. That development had amenities that this development is not providing. This product is similar to what he experienced. Commissioner Kiefer asked if this plan was compatible with the challenges with the East Norman Drain. Mr. Garrigan said there are opportunities to play off the East Norman Drain. This is not a conservation development but even if it was you would do cluste ring which provides for open space opportunity. The open space here is generally unbuildable. Mr. Garriga n agreed there are opportunities to work with the applicant to open the plan and provide some additi onal open space vistas and better linkages between the actual pods or clusters and the Norman Drain. Commissioner Renzi asked about the markets for th is townhouse product and the price point of these townhouses. Mr. Guerard agreed there are two produc t markets in the Birkett and two products in the Brummel properties. Mr. Guerard stated the price point for these townhouses would be roughly the same as the Birkett property due to the architecture of the product, probably $220,000 to $280,000. Mr. Guerard said there is a similar market as far as the de mographics with the age; the front loaded tend to be a younger couple that still want the outside space; the rear loaded tend to be single person or divorced person that does not care if they have a deck or yard but they like the three story space that tend to be larger units. Commissioner Renzi asked about the density of Patriot Square. Mr. Garrigan thought it was approximately 5.5 to 6 units per acre. Commissi oner Renzi thought there would be more school age children in this location in order to stay in Plainfield Schools. Mr. Guerard stated they did meet with the Plainfield School District. The school district indicated they have the capacity to handle this project. Commissioner Renzi asked about the price point for th e houses. Mr. Guerard thought they would be in the $280,000 to $350,000 range on the homes. Chairman Sobkoviak stated he would recommend to th e village that they not accept these streets unless there is a DSSA established for the private streets. Mr. Guerard indicated only the private streets would be in the townhome area.
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 11 of 12 Commissioner Renzi stated they would probably need three Home Owner Associations plus a DSSA. Mr. Garrigan thought the maximum would be three. Th at is something for the developer to work out. Mr. Guerard stated often times the villages does not wa nt the maintenance and that is really why it is private. Commissioner O’Rourke felt we would want it built to standard city specifications and then the city would maintain it. Mr. Garrigan said our ge neral policy is to encourage public streets. Commissioner O’Rourke said the stub street would encour age the same type of development to the west. Commissioner O’Rourke said the main issue is the density, they should consider either reducing the density of the existing single family and consider eliminating the townhomes and making that single family as well, then that would continue to the west as it was developed. Commissioner O’Rourke stated the setbacks will create parking problems as you cannot park over the sidewalk or on the street in the village. Commissioner Sanders thought the SSA would need to be established immediately for the maintenance of the street. Mr. Garrigan explained how the SSA could be created. Commissioner Renzi asked if the developer spoke with the Fire Department to see if they can negotiate their trucks in this area and if the garbage trucks can get through these streets. Chairman Sobkoviak stated the Fire Department would have to approve the dimensions when it is platted. Mr. Guerard stated they will be meeting with the Fire Department. Commissioner Renzi questioned the density indicating the developer would have to lose 80 units to get the density down to 3.5 units per acre; the front set back brings the house very close to the street and creates problems with parking space. Commissioner Renzi would like to see the footprint stamped on the plans to see how the house fits on the lots. Commissioner Renzi felt it was too crowded. Commissioner Sanders suggested showing the live ability. Commissioner O’Rourke asked why the parking areas would be private roads. Mr. Guerard stated that is what the other cities have required in the past. Mr . Guerard said as this project evolves they will be talking with the village. Mr. Garrigan stated th e motor courts behind the townhome units would be private. Chairman Sobkoviak opened the meeting to public comments for the Brummel property. Chairman Sobkoviak sworn in Tony Iannone, resident of adjacent development. Mr. Iannone was concerned with the 6,000 square foot lot size. Mr. Iannone stated the length of the driveway would allow two cars in the drive side by si de and then people will try to park the third car sideways so as not to block the sidewalk; and felt th ere would be a large number of cars in the street during the day. Gary Krol approached the microphone, Chairman S obkoviak advised him that he was still sworn in.
Plan Commission Minutes December 21, 2010 Page 12 of 12 Mr. Krol was concerned with the transition from the quarry to the river to houses to townhouses then to single family houses. The park backs up to our hom es. Mr. Krol felt they should swap the houses with the townhomes. Chairman Sobkoviak asked for any other comments. No one approached the microphone. The time for public comments was closed. Chairman Sobkoviak asked the commissioners if there was support to change the Comprehensive Plan to either accommodate these two proposals or any other proposal. Commissioner Sanders said yes; Commissioner Renzi said yes; Commissioner Kiefer said yes if we plan to make these exceptions then the Comprehensiv e Plan needs to be reviewed and Commissioner O’Rourke said yes. Commissioner O’Rourke st ated he relies on Staff’s recommendation and the Comprehensive Plan. Commissioner O’Rourke is concerned with the tow nhomes and feels this project should be all single family detached homes; and stated there is a trad e-off when the developers work with the Design Guidelines. Chairman Sobkoviak suggested starting the process to amend the Comprehensive Plan. Mr. Garrigan will take the discussion to the Village Board. Some discussion was held with regard to the possibly amending the Comprehensive Plan. Chairman Sobkoviak asked the applicant if he had what he needed from the Plan Commission. Mr. Guerard said they did and they will be making adjustments to their plan. Commissioner Sanders said when the Plan Commissi on has reviewed other projects (i.e. the Boulevard project, Mink Creek) and Best Management Practices with the green way area and the vistas, there were types of things that could be done which were low maintenance in the floodway, floodplain so it remained attractive and easy to maintain. Mr. Garrigan stat ed Staff would encourage BMPs in both of these developments if there is support for these projects. NEW BUSINESS: None DISCUSSION : Adjourned at 10:10 p.m. Respectfully submitted by _________________________ Merrilee Trotz Recording Secretary