HomeMy Public PortalAbout01-11-2005, Cudd draftPlanning Commission Minutes — DRAFT—1-11-05
6. CHARLES CUDD, LLC — REZONING TO PUD/GENERAL PUD/
PRELIMINARY PLAT TO ALLOW A 106 LOT SINGLE FAMILY
DEVELOPMENT — PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM DECEMBER 2004
Sarah Schield said this had been on the December 14, 2004 planning commission agenda and
staff had requested more thorough plans for review so it was continued until those plans were
received. She said this was reviewed with the UR zoning standards in mind. The reason for a
PUD is to allow flexibility in the underlying zoning. The applicant is proposing a public park
and preservation of open space.
S. Schield said the proposed development includes 42 developable acres and 82 acres of public
right-of-way, wetland, public park, trails and natural features. This results in a density of 2.5
units per acre which meets the intent of the City's Comprehensive plan. This is lower than the
Metropolitan council's policy of a minimum of 3 units per acre. The Metropolitan Council notes
that with additional development proposals and the City's comprehensive plan for the Uptown
Hamel area, the City will likely obtain an overall average density of more than 3 units per acre.
S. Schield said the developer is asking for a 5 foot less front yard setback than in the UR zoning
and stated that PUD zoning allows flexibility. Staff finds that this is a minimal request and that
the request matches the intent of the City's comprehensive plan to promote preservation of open
space and allow for design flexibility. She said staff recommends that the setbacks be identified
on the site plan.
S. Schield stated the developer has submitted HOA guidelines, which in part states that those
parts of the dwellings visible from the exterior will be kept architecturally attractive and
consistent in appearance. Staff recommends that the architectural guidelines be revised to
specifically include 4-sided architecture, high -quality building materials and coordination of
exterior colors and a list of builders to be submitted with the PUD final plan. The developer
should also provide detailed information about any HOA restrictions. Sarah said the developer
has said their will be 5 different home styles utilized in the development.
There was discussion on the parking by the tot lot for the park area. The Park Commission will
also comment on this.
Tom Crosby asked about street parking and if the streets were wide enough for parking and thru
traffic. He also asked if the HOA document talked of boats, etc. and where they could be parked.
S. Schield said that is something that should be discussed.
Sirish Samba, MFRA, said the street is 16' each side with a total of 32' in Bridgewater and most
others are 26' total.
Mary Verbick said what about parking when there is a party or weekend guests. Will they be
able to park on the street and still have traffic going by?
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Jim Dillman said the streets in Bridgewater will be similar to those in Foxberry Farms.
T. Crosby said the HOA documents should deal with the parking issue.
S. Schield said accessory parking is dealt with in the document.
T. Crosby said he is concerned with permanent parking in the street.
M. Verbick said she would be surprised if it was not in the HOA document.
Rick Denman, Charles Cudd Company, said they are all good points and he will check into it.
M. Verbick said the parking in the park area should also be addressed.
Dick Picard said the HOA document is usually more restrictive than the city.
T. Crosby said we are `down zoning' this and does it put the city in a box as far as affordable
housing for the city.
S. Schield said there is no guide for this property because it is outside of the MUSA.
T. Crosby said many suburban communities are being criticized for not having affordable
housing.
Chad Adams said we have livable community goals with the Metropolitan Council. We have
met that goal with Gramercy and Uptown Hamel. We might not have an area set aside after
those.
M. Verbick said that is an important comment. She said every community should be concerned
with affordable housing.
Rose Lorsung said the affordable figure goes up every year and it is now over $200,000. she
said there would be room in Uptown Hamel to meet some of that.
T. Crosby said he would like to know what is expected and who expects what of the City.
R. Denman said the architectural renderings they provided are just some of what they do and
they will build other plans than those shown. He said our firm is very good at doing good design
in both front and rear of homes.
Tom Supel asked Sarah about the money for water and sewer and is it coming from Highway 55
or is it just internal.
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Tom Kellogg, City engineer, said it is estimated that it is about 1 % miles to get sewer to the site
from Highway 55. He said the water main will go the length of Arrowhead and hook into
Foxberry. Tom also said Arrowhead will be re -constructed.
T. Supel asked if the developer would pay for all of this. Staff said yes. Tom talked about the
difference in the front yard setback of 25' instead of 30' and since this was a PUD, are there no
rules and no variance would be required?
S. Schield said that is correct.
T. Supel said similar to 50' vs. 60' for the road — no variance. Sarah said correct. Tom then
asked about the `public' park. He said from where he reads this, it is a long stretch to call it
public. There is no access, no parking and no activities. Why would anyone go there? Tom said
it sounds very phony to him, that it seems very private.
S. Schield said that is a good point. Is this an active or passive park? This is more passive. The
developers are proposing a floating dock and parking by the tot lot. She said due to the natural
environment, staff does not feel it should be changed. Sarah said that when the property to the
south develops, there could possibly be an additional access to the park from there.
T. Crosby said he felt if someone walked to the park they would want some marked trails.
T. Supel said he felt there was an access issue. Would 11-12 parking spaces be enough? He said
there is no problem with a natural area, but there should be something minimal there.
T. Crosby said kick it over to the park commission.
Charles Cudd said they actually had the area laid out into 14 lots, but the neighbors and the City
wanted it to stay natural.
M. Verbick said this area is a huge concession from the developer. She likened this area to the
Wolsfeld area. She said being slightly inaccessible helps keep it natural. Mary said she sees the
tot lot area as a potential problem between the residents and the public that comes to use the
public area. She said maybe they should consider changing the location of the tot lot.
Chares Cudd said he agrees, although the tot lot is not a heavy duty play area. He said we look
at it as a focal point in trying to maintain a site line to the open space as you drive in.
The public hearing was opened.
Bill Freeland, 4290 Arrowhead Drive, said he believes the rules have changed. When we
became supportive of the comprehensive plan change and Cudd, I have plans that showed
gazebos, lots of ponds, etc. He said he feels there are behind the scenes meetings and once
something is presented the rules should not change. He said he came tonight because of the talk
of access down our road. Bill said this is a great produce, but what happened since the earlier
meetings.
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D. Picard said that nothing was approved when former plans were presented to us.
R. Denman said Cudd has met with Mr. Freeland. There are many ponds in the plans and
showed him where they were.
B. Freeland said he and his neighbors want to stay involved and want to protect our investment
and why we moved here.
Luann Mosio, 4268 Arrowhead Drive, said the plan looks great. What we care about is
Arrowhead and our private road. We just don't want traffic on our private road and don't want
people using our private road for park access.
Marilyn Zimmerman, 6201 Butterworth Lane, Corcoran, talked of the sewer and water and
Arrowhead Road. She said she originally thought the sewer and water would be connected along
Hackamore Road for the Medina residents.
T. Kellogg said the water will be extended and tie into Foxberry. He said there is no proposal to
serve any other properties other than this development. He said sewer cannot go all the way
north, but will be brought up Arrowhead to the site. And the developer will construct the sewer
throughout the development. There will be a sewer stub to the north of the proposed
development for when the property to the north develops. The water main will also be stubbed
to the north for when the property to the north develops. The road will be paved.
M. Zimmerman said the road is very windy and dangerous. She wondered if there will be
restrictive speed limit and/or speed bumps or any other proposals for our safety.
T. Kellogg said the road has not been designed yet. He said we are trying to make improvements
for site distances. . He said we are trying to make improvements for site distances.
M. Zimmerman said she is extremely concerned with safety.
Gloria Steine, 20550 Hackamore Road, Corcoran, said the road is terrible and it should be taken
care of before there is a dead body. She said the corner should be blended and that 30 MPH was
ridiculous. She said the road should be taken care of now and not later. Ms. Steine said it is
unbelievable how people don't care how they drive.
Chris Sundin, 1525 Hackamore Road, wanted to know if there would be on street parking within
the development for park use.
M. Verbick said she thinks the 11-12 parking spaces by the tot lot will be plenty.
C. Sundin asked the planning commission if they had driven Hackamore. She said there is a
steep hill on the west and wondered where the trail was going to be, on Medina side or Corcoran
side.
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S. Schield said the comprehensive plan shows a trail utilized for future development. She also
wanted to say on the trail comment for a 2nd access on the private road, that was mentioned in
context of if there was future development of the property to the south there could possibly be an
access from there. In the transportation plan in the comprehensive plan it does show the private
road going to Lake Medina and it shows a future trail. Sarah said we do consider and look at
these things for the future.
M. Verbick said to Sarah that the residents of the existing private road do not have to be
concerned of any changes now and Sarah said that is correct.
C. Sundin said when the City worked thru the comprehensive plan, she came to many meetings
and they were told then that Hackamore Road was not on the radar until 2020.
Tony Sundin, 1525 Hackamore Road, said they were told if the City is going to build a road,
sewer and water would go along with it, so why not now.
T. Kellogg said people need to understand that only studies that have been done is a feasibility
report, extending services and improving the road. He said they have not started on any designs
for a road or utilities. He explained where the sewer and water lines would go and also said
when the road is designed a lot of consideration will be given to comments from the residents.
T. Crosby said if a resolution goes forward he will add safety issues to be added to the resolution.
He then asked if the property to the south wants to develop, it would not be part of this
development, so what would they have to go thru?
S. Schield and T. Kellogg said a comprehensive plan amendment would be needed and re-
zoning.
Alan Haggerty, 6200 Butterworth Lane, Corcoran, said he is concerned with traffic. He said it is
rather rural now and he is hearing `major collector' road. He said he is concerned with the
increased traffic and recommends that the design for the road encourages traffic to go south and
not north.
T. Sundin said in the mornings, it can be very foggy and you have to be very careful of joggers if
the sun is coming up because you cannot see a thing.
C. Adams said he did receive a letter from Corcoran and they want to be involved in the road
design process.
Ron Johnson said the ponds in the development are planned to be used for irrigation. He wanted
to know if the developers had thought of the height of the ponds and keeping kids out.
S. Samba said the ponds have a 10' wide bench with 10:1 slope.
R. Johnson asked if in a dry summer would the ponds be pumped dry.
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John Sonnec, Charles Cudd Company, said there will be a continuing feeding well to fill the
ponds whenever needed.
R. Johnson asked staff if the size of the houses will bring them under our new sprinkler
ordinance.
C. Adams said the building inspector will determine when he sees the plans.
R. Johnson said with the houses close together, he wondered if they would be sprinkled
internally.
R. Denman said they have never done that.
C. Adams said the Fire Marshall and Fire Chief will look into it.
M. Verbick asked about lighting.
R. Denman said they have not picked out a fixture or location yet.
M. Verbick said the placement is very important and it should not be bright.
R. Denman said they will take care in planning the location.
M. Verbick asked again about the trail on the road. Will it be a protected trial and which side of
the road.
S. Schield said it depends on the width of the right-of-way.
T. Kellogg said it requires further study.
M. Verbick asked about the floating dock maintenance.
R. Denman said they are paying for it and the material is supposed to be maintenance free.
T. Crosby said if it lasts 30 years it should be replaced by the HOA.
C. Cudd said it is a public access.
J. Sonnec said it is a lifetime plastic that is hollow with air inside.
M. Verbick asked if the pond maintenance would be by the HOA and the developers said that is
correct.
T. Supel wanted to clarify the park, is it a city park, does the city own it, the dock, etc. He said it
should be perfectly clear on the maintenance.
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C. Cudd said we will meet with the Park Commission next week.
Lenny Leuer said the streets and right-of-way are 50' within the development. He wondered if
Hackamore/Arrowhead would be 50' also.
S. Schield reiterated what Tom Kellogg said that the design of the road is not complete.
L. Leuer said if we need ROW, how do we obtain it by the private residents and if we don't have
it, what is the process.
T. Kellogg said the city attorney is researching it now. Tom said before we know the process we
need to know what we have.
S. Schield said the issue is the ROW and how much we have to work with.
L. Leuer asked if we have the inability to obtain needed ROW would it be a stop gap for this
development.
C. Adams said that would be a policy decision by the City Council.
Bruce Workman, Mayor, said there is a lot of property where easement will have to be granted.
C. Sundin said in 1988 this was a minimum maintenance road. She said the City should have
notified us of change of status and we never were.
M. Zimmerman said they neither were ever notified of any changes in road status. She asked
Tom Crosby to add to conditions about putting water lines in road the same time the road is
improved.
T. Kellogg again said that they have not started the design process. He said there are more
limitations on sewer lines than water lines. He said they also do not want to have to tear the road
up again in 5 years.
L. Leuer asked if this would be a `garage dominated' neighborhood.
R. Denman said garages are a fact of life. He said they take care that garage doors are upscale
and that there are windows in the garage, etc. He said the house is more dominate than the
garage. He said they use garage doors that are consistent with the design of the home.
L. Leuer asked if the HOA document called for the parking of boats, RV's , etc not to be outside
and Rick said that was correct.
D. Picard said the estimated cost of the sewer and water and road is 1 '/2 million. He wondered
what happens if the cost goes higher.
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C. Cudd said we have agreed to pay for it regardless of cost. He did say there was no trail in the
estimate.
D. Picard said the developer has also agreed to share the cost of a new well up to $50,000 and he
wondered how long that offer was good.
C. Cudd said it would be in the developer's agreement.
D. Picard said if the water usage goes up and a new well is not needed for 3 years, would you
still pay.
C. Cudd said he figured on paying the $50,000 up front.
Jim Dillman said the cost of a new well ranges from $65,000 - $250,000.
D. Picard said the City should review and tom Kellogg should comment on the proposed access
to the park and the floating dock.
T. Kellogg said there was some discussion on railings, width, etc. He said the City and the Park
Commission should comment on it, how snow sill be kept off, etc.
D. Picard asked if the lawns would be sprinkled and Rick said yes.
M. Verbick said that is a good idea to use the ponds, it will be less of an impact on city water.
The public hearing was closed at 9 p.m.
MOVED BY TOM CROSBY AND SECONDED BY LENNY LEUER TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE REZONING FROM RR-UR TO PUD, THE PUD GENERAL PLAN
AND PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR CHARLES CUDD, LLC FOR THE 124 ACRES
LOCATED NORTH OF STATE HIGHWAY 55, NORTH OF CHIPPEWA ROAD AND EAST
OF ARROWHEAD/HACKAMORE ROAD WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
1. The plans shall be revised according to the City Engineer comments per attached
memo dated January 3, 2005.
2. The site plan must clearly identify the building setbacks.
3. The applicant shall provide revised copies of the HOA documents/covenants for City
review. The HOA documents must include 4-sided architecture, high -quality
building materials and coordination of exterior colors. The HOA document shall also
include parking regulations including prohibition of outside parking of boats, RV's,
etc.
4. The HOA documents must also include accessory building/structure and fence
restrictions.
5. The developer shall provide a list of builders with the PUD final plan
6. The developer shall submit garage details.
7. The developer shall revise the plans to provide additional parking or a proof of
parking plan for the private park. The plans must include parking details.
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8. The applicant must submit signage details.
9. The plans are subject to the review of the Fire and Police Department.
10. The plans are subject to the review and the wetland setbacks of the Elm Creek
Watershed District.
11. Drainage and utility easements must be provided over all wetlands and ponds.
12. The applicant must submit lighting details.
13. The street names on the plans must be revised to show Roads, Drives, etc.
14. The developer shall submit details on the trail design.
15. Safety issues related to hackamore are to be addressed by the City's Public Works
Department and the City engineer. The City of Corcoran is to be involved in the
design process for the road.
16. Park areas of the development to be referred to Medina's park Commission for
review, including review of the walkway, maintenance issues, parking areas and
access.
17. In event ROW on Hackamore is not acceptable to the Public Works Department and
cannot be obtained, this issue is to come back to the Planning Commission.
MOTION PASSED.
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