HomeMy Public PortalAbout2005-10-18 PC MinutesVillage of Plainfield Planning Commission Record of Minutes Date: October 18 , 2005 Location: Village Hall Chairman Sobkoviak cal led the meeting to order at 7:0 1 . Roll Call Present: Commissioners Kachel, Henry, McKay, Renzi , Fazio, Sobkoviak, David M urawski Absent: Lucenko, Ed O'Rou rke, Park District, Library District, School District , Fire District , Police Department Minutes The minutes from the October 4 , 2005 meeting were accepted as presented. Development Report Michael Garrigan read the deve lopment report. - The Annexation Agreement for the Plainfield Fire Prot ection Dist rict’s Station 2 (E ast of Menards) was approved 6 -0 . - The Annexation Agreement, Final Plat, and Site Plan Review for the Plainfield Fire Prot ection Dist rict’s Station #3 at Gre enfield on 119 th Street east of R oute 30 were approved 6 -0. New Business CASE: 1213 -092605.SPR CHATHAM SQUARE TEXT AMENDMENT Request: Site Plan Review Location: Northwest Corner of 127 th Street & Heggs Road Applicant: Gladstone Homes Time: 7:0 3 pm Jim Donahue read the staff report. Chairman Sobkoviak swore in Adam Dontz of Gladstone Homes who thanked the commission for hearing the case. He said that the staff outlined most of the points, but he also wanted to review the community plat. He stated whe re they reduced the townhome quantity, and also where they added a gazebo and walking path. He showed the engineer’s rendering of the area to show that they meet the requirements. Regarding
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 2 architecture, he said that Gladstone is building a community cal led Heritage Oaks which is a large townhome community. They wanted to put a similar product in Chatham Square . Regarding the staff’s c omment regarding monotony and garage doors, he said that Gladstone has worked with Staff to add window grills, soldier c oursing, and the full brick gable over the garage door. They also broke up the monotonous wall of garage doors by adding some staggered garage doors. There was a suggestion about adding two single -doors, but this would require a change in the architectur e, s o he requested that they work with him on this. In the rear, Mr. Dontz said that Gladstone changed the architecture to have seven feet of uninterrupted space as opposed to the larger uninterrupted space on the old design. Regarding the landscape plan , he said that they have not submitted a community -wide landscape plan but had submitted the individual foundation plantings. He said that Gladstone is working on this. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if all the garage doors would be the same color . Mr. Dontz said that per building they will be. However, they could vary the brick color and siding color and choose an appropriate color for the garage door. Commissioner Kachel asked if they ha d an option for adding garage door upgrades , but Mr. Dontz said that this is n ot currently in their inventory. Commissioner Kachel said that on the north s ide, it looked like there was one single tree on the drawing . Mr. Dontz said that this has just been an evolution based on discussions, and after staff has reviewed th is, he would be happy to work with them. Commissioner Kachel asked if, on the streetscape, the plantings and elevations seem ed heavy and if they were taller trees. He was worried about visibility. Mr. Donahue said that the larger green c ircles tend to b e taller trees, but he did not know the species . Chairman Sobkoviak opened up the floor for public comment. There was no response. Commissioner Renzi said that, in report, they were consider ing two different product lines, and they were talking about co lor schemes. He asked if they were okay with two diff erent product line s. Mr. Dontz said that this was in the staff report, and he has to loo k to staff for exactly what it was. However, they were approaching completion of final engineering, and this sit e ha d been designed to accommodate a certain pad size. He ha d no trouble working on things that d id n o t affect that pad size, but for him to redesign a building would be difficult. Commissioner Henry asked what the Staff’s take was on this. Mr. Donahue sai d that the Annexation Agreement spelled out what architecture is required; he was just suggesting a different product line. Commissioner Henry said that the gable over the garage is left of center and asked if it could be right of center . Mr. Dontz s aid that it would require some further thought. 2
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 3 Commissioner Fazio liked the ideas of t he sidewalks and walking paths and said that more places need ed a place to gather. He did not have a problem with t he fact that the double doors are off set. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there were any engineering issues. The Village Engineer said that there were, but they are working with the engineer on getting the issues resolved. Currently, they are still working on drainage , but he did not see this affecting the plat. Chairman Sobkoviak asked about the roads and drive way s . The Village Engineer said that the parking stalls would probably be maintained by the H omeowners’ A ssociation. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if this was adequate parki ng for residents and visitors , and the Village Engineer said that they will have to look at that . Chairman Sobkoviak told them to have this ready for the V il l a g e Board as parking is a major issue . They would want available parking for visitors . Mr. Dontz said that they did add on -s treet parking slots near the gazebo and decreased the number of homes, so they are within the V il l a g e ’s requirements . Mr. Murawski asked, since there is no final submission of a landscaping plan, if they were willing to comply with the V il l a g e’s plan to m eet the required plantings . Mr. Dontz said that, by way o f the foundation plantings, they m et the ordinance. The community -wide landscaping was just submitted , and they would work with the V il l a g e to meet their requirements. Commissioner McKay said that from a practicality standpoint, the double -door garage doors might be a problem for those with larger cars. Chairman Sobkoviak said that there was no trouble with 16 -f oot garage doors, and the petitioner was working on not making this monotonous. He had offered to put grills in the windows to allow a variance in garage doors which should add some interest. Mr. Dontz said that their plan only allow ed for four units , and Chairman Sobkoviak said that this broke up the facades well . At 7:31 pm, Commissioner Kachel moved to recommend approval of the site plan for the townhome portion of the Chatham Square Subdivision, subject to the following three (3) stipulations: 1. Compliance with the requirements of the Village Engineer. 2. Compliance with the requirements of the Plainfield Fire Protection District. 3. The submission of a landscape plan show ing the required common area and buffer yard landscaping. Commissioner Renzi seconded the motion. Chairman Sobkoviak called for a vote by roll call. Aye: Fazio, Renzi, Henry , Kachel, McKay, Sobkoviak Nay: None The motion is carried 6 :0:0. 3
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 4 This will go forward at the first V illage B oard meeting in November . CASE NO.: 1 20 9 -091505.FP STEWART RIDGE Request: Final Plat Location: Heggs Road, north of 127 th and south of 119 th Street Applicant: Fry Properties, Inc. Started: 7:32 pm Mr. Garrigan presented the Staff report. Chairman Sobkoviak said that a pre -annexation agreement and Annexation Agreement are contracts between the developer and the Village. Chairman Sobkoviak aske d if there were any engineering issues. The Village Engineer said that they were working with the developer’s engineer to meet the requirements, but there were no significant issues. Chairman Sobkoviak swore in Patty Bernhard from Fry Properties who also had with her Alan Fry and their engineer. She thought that Staff did a good job with their presentation, and she noted that they were in compliance. She requested their recommendation. Chairman Sobkoviak swore in the group of petitioners. Mr. Murawski said that under their streets design, he was confused about the agreement with the owners of the outlot s on the west side of Heggs Road. Mr. Garrigan said that the applicant does not own the right -of -way, so they are working with the owners to try and ob tain it so improvements can be made. This is within the Annexation Agreement terms. Mr. Murawski confirmed that if they do not get this, it would still go forward. Chairman Sobkoviak opened up the floor for public comment. There was no response. Chair man Sobkoviak verified Staff’s comment regarding the plantings around the retention pond. Commissioner Henry confirmed the creation of a D orman t S pecial S ervices A rea. Commissioner McKay said that in the first par agraph regarding street design, there wer e stub roads on property lines. She asked that the developer please let residents know that these will be connected . At 7:44pm, Commissioner Henry moved to recommend approval of the final plat for Stewart Ridge subject to the following stipulations : 1. Comp liance with the requirements of the Village Engineer. 2. Compliance with the requirements of the Plainfield Fire Protection District. 4
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 5 3. That the applicant incorporates the appropriate aquatic plantings as recommended by the Village Engineer along the retention ponds for the purpose of shoreline stabilization. 4. Creation of a DSSA prior to the release of any approved final plat. Commissioner Renzi seconded the motion. Chairman Sobkoviak called for a vote by roll call. Aye: Fazio, Renzi, Henry, Kachel, McKay, Sob koviak Nay: None The motion is carried 6:0:0. This will go forward at the first Village Board meeting in November. Commissioner Kachel asked if, in relation to the stub street , there was anything saying that a sign must go up . Mr. Garrigan said that the y have don e this before, but the signs get stolen. However, he noted that there is a proposed development coming in directly following this that was already proceeding . Commissioner McKay was just worried about the developer not disclosing this. CASE NO .: 1210 -091305.TA ZONING ORDINANCE TEXT AMENDMENT FENCES LOCATED IN FRONT OF CORNER SIDE YARDS Request: Text Amendment to the Zoning Ordinance Section 9 -17 (1) (c) to allow fences to encroach into corner side yards outside the Central Core area within the Village of Plainfield (Public Hearing) Location: Village -wide Applicant: Robert Berkes & Peter Panozzo (residents) Started: 7:46pm Mr. Donahue announced that this is a public hearing being held in accordance with all applicable rules and regu lations of the Village of Plainfield and the State of Illinois. He presented the Staff report. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there were any e ng ineering issues. T he Village Engineer said that the only issue was if there was an intersection that had somethi ng other than a stop sign controlling it; the fence could affect the sight distance. Typically, from a design perspective, a driver’s eye is considered to be 3 ½ feet from the ground, and they need to be able to see this. He also said that i f they had a picket fence or staggered slats; it would be difficult to see. Commissioner Renzi recused himself from the case. Chairman Sobkoviak swore in the group of petitioners. 5
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 6 Robert Berkes, of the Liberty Grove subdiv ision, address ed some of the points brough t up in the Staff report. He said that some of the pictures showed an extension of the fence past the front of the house and past the driveways, but that is not part of their proposal. One of the proposed restrictions (number 7) would be that no such blo cked sightlines were allowed. They were not looking at fencing any of the front ends o f the property; they only wanted to fence the side lot up to where it comes in contact with the front of the house (or setback). He a lso said that they received a fax f rom Staff on Friday that they were recommending deni al of this , and it was surprise to him as they ha d not spoken with Staff to work on any issues they had . With the ir proposal (like 50% or more opacity ), he felt that they met the requirements regarding a n open feel. Since it was achieved downtown, he thought they could achieve this in subdivisions. Patricia Berkes, of the Liberty Grove subdiv ision, had a problem with the pictures shown as they were not indicative of what they were asking for . She said that their houses were back to back with another home. She said that i t is 65 -feet from the street to the home , and she wa s look ing for this to go out 20 to 30 feet only . She thought that this should be taken on a case -by -case basis. She could not belie ve that this was brought up in 1999 and 2002 and numerous calls were coming in but this was still not done . She also w anted to know how a wrought iron fence took away from open space. Chairman Sobkoviak noted that when they say “fence ”, they cannot spe cify what type of fence. Regarding this being done on a case -by -case basis, he said this is done as they grant variances . Ms. Berkes said that they were told not to request a variance as the board was stubborn . A discussion ensued regarding this, and Ch airman Sobkoviak said that they do request fence variances Ms. Berkes thought that landscaping was excessive and wanted to know how she could keep people from gathering on her lawn without landscaping . She was not sure how to address these issues. A hea ted discussion ensued regarding this. Commissioner Kachel said that corner lots are problems, and they have brought this up to the developers as the fencing requirements are supposed to be divulge d to the buyer. Ms. Berkes said that they are willing to w ork with the V il l a g e as they are willing to have a wrought iron fence . Commissioner Fazio said he would be open to a variance in this case taking a look at the property . Ms. Berkes said that the builder did not put their house near the setback . Chairman Sobkoviak noted that this was a petition to amend the ordinance and not a variance . Commissioner Fazio was not su re who told them not to apply for a variance. Peter Panozzo addressed the commission who said that the Staff said that both sets of yards ar e considered front yards . H e wanted a larger fence to come out to the edge of the fence and go out to the one foot mark . He noted that there is 114 feet from the stop sign to the fence with 50% opacity . He said that did not bother any streetscape and wa s 6
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 7 having trouble understanding why they could not work with them on this . A discussion ensued. Mr. Panozzo said that this came down to property rights . He understoo d that they did not want 5 -foot fences. Commissioner Henry confirmed that he lived in Li ber t y Grove and asked if they have c hecked with the H omeowners A ssoc i ation on what covenants they have . Mr. Panozzo said they had asked the builder if they could fence the property, and they had said they could . A discussion ensued regarding this. Mr. P anozzo underst oo d that this was not a case by case basis . Commissioner Henry said that a committee was talking to the Chairman, trustees, and staff regarding updating the zoning ordinance , and fences were a topic. During that, they came up with a number of sketches that delineate what they can or cannot do. He did not know if Staff could share this with them , but he assured them that things like this are talked about all the time by volunteers. He said that this wa s the purpose of the variance process. Mr. Panozzo said that if they had known this, they would have come with variances . Ms. Berkes said that they were told by a lawyer to go this way, and they want ed to work with the Village Commissioner Henry said that one of the things they look at when considering a particular variance is what makes a property unique. He said that somet imes this works and sometimes it does n ot, but he asked her to l ook at this from their perspective. A discussion ensued regarding this. Mr. Donahue went through this wi th Mr. Berkes and disp layed pictures of picket fences. A further discussion ensued regarding this. Mr. Garrigan said that, for the record, he wanted to say that Staff’s position is to explain to individuals that they must come in and have a hardship (in the legal definition of hardship). T hey also explain the Board’s past decisions on this . He said that they ha d given some variances , but they generally discourage this because it is difficult to determine a hardship. Another discussion ensued regarding this. Mr. Panozzo asked if the only way they could come back was to demonstrate a hardship. Commissioner Henry said that they can also demonstrate uniqueness. He asked what the statistics were on side yard fence variances. Mr. Garrigan said that from ta lking to the building department, there was a lot of discussion, but they do not get that many through the planning department. He said that the building dep ar t ment d id get these requests. Commissioner Henry asked if they find this in newer or older home s. Mr. Garrigan said that they m ostly find this in newer homes where co ven ants do not prohibit it. Chairman Sobkoviak opened up the floor for public comment. Commissioner McKay asked when the last time was that they went over this as a V il l a g e. Mr. G arrigan said that in the Spangler farm case on Renwick Road; this was passed even though it was not recommended by Staff . Commissioner McKay asked when the code 7
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 8 itself was looked at . Commissioner Fazio said that a resident and the V il l a g e had a lawsuit r egarding this, and part of the evidence was regarding 18 newer homes in Plainfield . T he judge ruled in the resident’s favor because of the evidence , and they got the ordinance changed. He said that t his was obviously an issue, and he understood the frust ration. Chairman Sobkoviak swore Erica Sokol who found out about this three weeks ago and was disappointed. She said that t he backyard is part of America, and people with corner lots are losing yard space. She said that t hey pay more for corner lots, so they pay more tax dollars. She did not want to see a “wall” but felt that this could be worked with. She had not closed on her house yet and wa s worried. There were some new homes that did not look that nice. Commissioner Henry said that covenants are sometimes more restrictive . Ms. Sokol d id not see why the Village could not come to a compromise. She asked if she s hould fill out a variance as well. Chairman Sobkoviak said to see the building department and they could instruct her as to how to proce ed. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there was any further p ublic comment. There was no response . Commissioner Kachel said that the Board and P lan C ommission was said to not pay attention , but he said that th ese issues come up. They try to take care of this early . He also said that t hey were trying to come up with some type of uniformity because it takes away from the streetscape if it does not. They were trying to address this. Ms. Berkes said that they were deterr ed from filling out a variance as they w ere told they w ould lose money. A discussion ensued regarding this. Commissioner McKay kn ew she was frustrated but said that for her to state that nobody cares is untrue. There was legislation that was i n place to help all homeowners and she t hought tha t she should get involved. There were other subdivisions that had similar issues. Her suggestion was going to be to look ove r this and come to an agreement to table it to give everyone some time to consider . She said that there we re some new people on t he commission who do not have all of the information. Chairman Sobkoviak said that they held public hearings in 1999 and 2002 to review this. Commissioner Henry said that t here is a commission now to update the Village’s Zoning Ordinance, and this wa s in process. When it c ame to the public hearing, they need ed people like them to come forward and say what they do or do not like. Mr. Berkes thanked the commission for hearing them and looked forward to working with them to come up with a compromise. Comm issioner Henry said that they are addressing a request that is Village Wide . Chairman Sobkoviak said that they ca nnot deviate from this as it is a legal matter. 8
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 9 Mr. Berkes asked if this c ould be tabled and addressed at a later date . Commissioner Henry s aid that they may be better off push ing this to the Zoning Commission be cause if they keep it separate , they might confuse it. Commissioner Kachel said that accepting or denying this will not matter. Ms. Berkes asked what the suggestion was. Mr. Panozzo said that the wa y the text is written is that this is V il l a g e -wide and these particular issues vary too much from the ordinance . On their behalf, he asked if it was better that they come back as a varianc e. Chairman Sobkoviak said that was his opinion . Commissioner Kachel said that if it was denied , they would take it to the Board . Mr. Garrigan said that the Zoning Commission was scheduled to meet Nov ember 8 , and the proposed Zoning Ordinance would not be done for another three months . He was not sure whether it was appropriate to table this until later . A discussion ensued regarding this amendment versus the ordinance changes. Chairman Sobkoviak said that they could pursue a variance, but they have to know the four challenges (three of which they ne ed to meet in order to have the variance granted. He said that this was set by law and state statute, and he was n ot hearing support for the text amendment. Mr. Berkes said that they were just looking to amend the one section on side lots. A discussion ensued regarding the findings for variances. Commissioner McKay said that the code has not been changed since 2002, but there have been variances granted since then . Mr. Panozzo underst ood this from a political point of view. H e did not think a 42 -foot fence would affect the question s of streetscape, hardship, and openness At 8 :4 8 pm, Commissioner Kachel moved to recommend denial of the proposed text amendment to Section 9 -17 (1) (c) of the Zoning Ordinance, which would allow fences to be located in the corner yard. Commissioner Fazio seconded the motion. Chairman Sobkoviak called for a vote by roll call. Aye: Fazio, Henry, Kachel, McKay, Sobkoviak Nay: None The motion is carried 4 :1 :0 (McKay dissenting). This will go forward at the first Village Boar d meeting in November. A 10 -minute recess was called at 8:50pm. The meeting re -convened at 9:02pm. CASE NO.: 1206 -083005.RZ LIFESPRING COMMUNITY CHURCH MAP AMENDMENT Request: Map Amendment/Rezoning (Public Hearing) Location: North of Lockport St reet, east of Wood Farm Road 9
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 10 Applicant: LifeSpring Community church of Plainfield Started: 9:02pm Jonathan Proulx announced that this is a public hearing being held in accordance with all applicable rules and regulations of the Village of Plainfield and t he State of Illinois. He presented the Staff report. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there was any engineering issues. The Village Engineer said that there was nothing involved in rezoning Chairman Sobkoviak swore in Fran Leeman, the pastor at LifeS pring w ho had come before the committee of the whole before the purchase of the property to see if the Village would be in support. The Board thought that they would support this, and they recognize it as an irregular property. The church liked being downtown, and since it was not appealing for most of the developers, it was in a price range that they could afford. Chairman Sobkoviak said that in a sensitive case, it was better that a church be petitioning than a developer planning to build residences. Commiss ioner Kachel asked if there was any park feedback. Mr. Proulx did not put this directly to them, and Commissioner Kachel noted that this property had been talked about as a parking deck or a park. Mr. Proulx said that he would review this with Cameron Be tt i n, and there would be open space. Chairman Sobkoviak said that this was only a map amendment, and Mr. Proulx said that the petitioner had to agree to certain elements as presented by the Village . Mr. Leeman said that outside of the building, they plan to have a nine -acre park that they will maintain. He said that this would be treated as a public place. Commissioner Renzi asked about the parcel to the West and what tha t zoning was. Mr. Proulx said that this was A -1 in County. There was some discrep ancy regardin g the municipal -county boundary. Commissioner Renzi asked if this impact any planning for the area that is not their. Mr. Proulx said that if this were to annex into the V il l a g e, it is a possibility to be planned to be high -density residenti al similar to Lincoln Square. Commissioner Renzi asked if, by changing this, it would affect the use of the surrounding area that they need to disclose to the purchaser . Mr. Proulx said that Staff thinks that this proposed zoning is compatible with propo sed future land use. He said that the OCI zoning might be even more compatible than the current zoning. Staff believe d the petitioner would probably be happy to have this . Chairman Sobkoviak opened up the floor for public comment. There was no response . Chairman Sobkoviak asked for any additional questions or comments. 10
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 11 At 9:22pm, Commissioner Henry moved to recommend approval of the rezoning of the proposed LifeSpring Community Church site located north of Lockport Street and east of Wood Farm Road fr om the ORI – Office, Research and Light -Industrial District to the OCI – Office, Commercial and Institutional District. Commissioner Kachel seconded the motion. Chairman Sobkoviak called for a vote by roll call. Aye: Fazio, Renzi, Henry, Kachel, McKay, Sobkoviak Nay: None The motion is carried 6:0:0. This will go forward at the first Village Board meeting in November. CASE NO.: 1212 -092605.SU/SPR AMVETS COLLECTION CENTER WAL -MART PUD AMENDMENT Request: PUD Amendment (Public Hearing) Special Us e Location: North of 127 th Street, west of Illinois Route 59 Applicant: Illinois Amvets Service Foundation (Gary Gullickson) Started: 9:24pm Mr. Proulx said that the petitioner was requesting a continuance to Nov ember 15. Chairman Sobkoviak said that thi s should be announced at the beginning of the meeting At 9:25pm, Commissioner Henry moved to continue the discussion of this case to the November 15 meeting. Commissioner Renzi seconded the motion. Chairman Sobkoviak called for a vote by roll call. Aye : Fazio, Renzi, Henry, Kachel, McKay, Sobkoviak Nay: None The motion is carried 6:0:0. Commissioner Renzi had a question on a case since there were some issues staff raised regarding fences and walls. He said that the petitioner may be able to research s ome of the issues raised by Staff, so he thought they could use the time to respond. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if, in the absence of adjustment, they should recommend this be changed if the adjustments were made. Mr. Proulx said yes – that there are certa in concerns that he would like addressed. 11
PLAN COMMISION 10/18/05 MINUTES PAGE 12 Chairman Sobkoviak asked him to make the petitioner aware of this. Mr. Proulx wanted to find every way they could to work with them. Commissioner Renzi understood both sides and would like them to address the is sues raised. A brief discussion ensued regarding wanting to see alternatives. Mr. Proulx planned to meet with the petitioner on Monday morning. Commissioner Kachel asked what their position was on small boxes and if they were allowed. Mr. Proulx said t hat they were not allowed; there were boxes placed in the exact location that were placed without Wal -M art’s notification. They were removed, and in the future t hese would probably be addressed by code enforcement. Commissioner Kachel asked , r egarding st orage boxes , what the grace periods were for storage containers. Mr. Proulx said he would research this and get back to them Commissioner Kachel asked if they were looking into the ordinanc es for plantings on corner lots. He said that these grow up to b lock sight lines and become a safety hazard. Commissioner Renzi asked why they read Staff reports and was told that it is more for the benefit of the people watching at home . However, some of the planners may be able to condense the reports, and t his w ill allow more time to dedicate to the more meaty issues. Commissioner Kachel said that this is also for the people in the audience . Commissioner Renzi suggested put ting the reports in the folders at the meeting for anyone who is interested . Commissione r Fazio asked if this could be posted on the internet . Mr. Garrigan said that the findings of fact need to be verbally put in the record . Commissioner Renzi said that he was just looking to expedite the meetings. Chairman Sobkoviak declare d the meeting closed at 9 :36 pm . __________________ Respectfully submitted, Laura Griffith Recording Secretary Karick & Associates, Inc. 12