HomeMy Public PortalAbout2001-01-16 PC minutesMINUTES PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISISON DATE: January 16, 2001 AT: Village Meeting Hall Chairman Sobkoviak called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and led the pledge to the flag. Roll Call: PRESENT: Commissioners Millan, Kachel, Gehrke, Schinderle, A nderson and Sobkoviak Library and Park Districts ABSENT: Commissioner Manning School and Fire Districts The minutes from Plan Commission meeting of December 19, 2000 were accepted as presented. DEVELOPMENT REPORT: Planner Carroll stated the Village Bo ard approved a Boundary Agreement with Yorkville. He said they approved the rezoning for 505 Division and directed the attorney to prepare an ordinance. NEW BUSINESS: CASE NO: 844 -121500.AA/PP TUTTLE FARM Planner Carroll stated this is a public hearing for annexation of 120 acres located south of 127 th Street, west of IL Route 30 and north of Walkers Grove and Nature’s Crossing. He stated the applicant proposed 250 single -family units. He said the Plan Commission previously considered a concept plan th at had about 275 lots with the average lot size of 11,600, the minimum lot size of 10,000 and a gross density of 2.4. He stated the Plan Commission supported the idea of smaller lot sizes in support of open space. He stated the Concept Committee generall y supported this plan. He said the subject site lays in the suburban and estate district of the Comprehensive Plan. He said the boundary is the gas line easement. He said the west would be estate district and the east would be village and suburban dist rict with 2.5 density. He said the applicant proposes 2.08 density. He said Walkers Grove to the south is 2.43 du/ac and Natures Crossing is 1.84 du/ac. Planner Carroll said the average lot size is roughly 12,000 square feet with a minimum of 10,000 s quare feet. He stated the open space is about 30 acres. He said when the development starts to the west a large open space will be developed also. He stated the Concept Committee suggested removing lots 211 – 215 to provide better access to the park sit e and it is more of a visual corridor to the open space as well. He said if the Plan Commission does not support that some provision should be made for access to the park such as a sidewalk or bike path. He said you have to be careful with fences as well to make sure they are not on the park property. He said Staff recommends no access on the corner lots on Meadow Lane to limit as many driveways as possible. He said they have continued the profile from Walkers Grove all the way through the subject site . He said the remaining streets are 28 feet in width and 60 feet in right of way. He said the Village standard is 31 feet and 66 feet. He said both the Plan Commission and Village Board have supported 28 and 60 in the past and Staff is of the opinion th at it creates traffic calming measures.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 2 Planner Carroll said the subject property is located in unincorporated Will County, however, it is adjacent to the Village via their south boundary line. He said they are in both the Village’s FPA and Village’s p lanning area and Staff feels it is a logical extension of the Village’s limits. Planner Carroll said the applicant has requested R -1 zoning. Planner Carroll said the applicant will be bringing utilities from Heritage Meadows down along 127 th Street to th e subject site. He said this is a public hearing and all public comments should be considered. Planner Carroll said subject to any comment raised during the public hearing, Staff recommends annexation with R -1 zoning and approval of the preliminary plat subject to stipulations. Joe Regis, Village engineer, asked the Plan Commission to keep in mind that generally a road like Meadow Lane requires a minimum 80 -foot wide right -of -way. He said south of here it is 66 feet with two 10 -foot easements, one on ei ther side. He said they have proposed 4 -foot wide sidewalks and 5 -foot sidewalks are required. He said we recommend a traffic study be performed not only to analyze structural values that would have to be applied to both Meadow and 127 th Street. He said the Chief of Police has identified 127 th and Rt. 30 as being somewhat problematic. He said the traffic study could also look into that intersection also not only for signalization but as well as the railroad tracks and take a look at the traffic generate d. Commissioner Kachel asked about Normantown Road. Joe Regis said Meadow Lane will take the traffic north and south. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the property north of this site was being considered for development at this time. Planner Carroll s aid he has not seen anything. Joe Regis explained Village code for streets versus what the applicant is proposing. Commissioner Kachel asked how far the gas pipeline goes down. Planner Carroll explained it separates Nature’s Crossing and Walkers Grove. John Vann, Plainfield Township Park District, said it has the potential of a bike trail. He said their current plans are focused mainly on the greenway surrounding the creek. John Phillipchuck, attorney for applicant, stated Jim Hughes, applicant, and M ike Schoope, land planner, were present. Mr. Phillipchuck said they own the property but that the gas line has an easement on the property. He said they are restricted with what they can do within the easement area. He said there are no restrictions on their property only on the property where the easement is located. He said it can be used for open space purposes, it can be crossed with roads, but we have to be careful with the excavations and the design of things and we do it under their supervision. He said the annexation and development of this property will allow the Village to get the high -pressure water system from the east to the west. He said they have used up the low -pressure system and the new developments coming in will have to get either a new source of water and a reservoir to the west in conjunction with getting a pipe
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 3 back east connecting to the tank on 119 th Street. He said they have looked at the road and road networks, improvement of 127 th Street and the extension of the bike path a long the southerly right of way of 127 th Street. He said we have a $200.00 per home impact fee for traffic in their annexation agreement. He said they are looking for that money to be used for traffic signals at 127 th Street and Route 30. Chairman Sob koviak asked if they were in receipt of the Engineer’s letter. Mr. Phillipchuck said yes. Mike Schoppe described the lot size and road network. He indicated the corner lots were not a problem and that they can restrict the corner lots so driveways come out on the intersecting street or secondary street. He said they will be putting a buffer along 127 th Street. He said they have reached an agreement with the Park District and the easement will be granted to the Park District. He explained the easemen t is 125 feet wide. He said they have thought about those 5 lots but the Park District is comfortable with their proposal. He said the next development proposed homes by the park also. John Vann, Plainfield Park District, presented a concept plan for th e park. He said they are looking at a total open space between 25 and 30 acres. He said they have an agreement with Wiseman Hughes and have a tentative agreement with MAF for their parcel to the west. He said they will need to purchase additional land t o make this happen. Jim Hughes, applicant, said they propose 5 or 6 different models with 3 or 4 elevations of each model. He said the anticipate a product line of 2000 to 3000 square feet with the majority of homes being 4 and 5 bedrooms with some 3 bed room homes ranging from a base price range from $265,000 to $270,000. Chairman Sobkoviak asked for public comments. David King stated his father owns 87 acres directly north of this parcel. He asked the direction of the southern water. Chuck Hulse, Roake and Associates, explained the stormwater management and that it does south and west. David King said there is only a 24 -inch tile under the railroad track. He asked where the utilities were coming from. Chuck Hulse said they are extending a water main along the south side of 127 th . He indicated sewer would be serviced through Walkers Grove. David King said his father also owns the larger triangular parcel east of the railroad tracks. He asked how this would affect his father’s property. Chuck Hulse said it would be in the right -of -way. John Phillipchuck said we would be looking for an easement. He said at this time they would be looking for the easement only at this time.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 4 There were no other comments. Chairman Sobkoviak said the Commissione rs were free to question Staff or the petitioner. Commissioner Schinderle asked if they have any argument or quarrel with recommendations made by Staff or the Engineer. Mr. Phillipchuck said they are already putting in the 10 -foot utility easements on each side of Meadow Lane. He said we agree that there should not be any access to Meadow Lane on the corner lots and they understand there will be a 10 -foot asphalt path on the south side of 127 th Street. Mr. Phillipchuck said with regard to the Engine er’s recommendations, Joe touched on it trying to maintain the same standards as the development of Walkers Grove of the road network and bring Meadow Lane north and also with the 28 -foot 60 -foot right of way, he said they were agreeing with the 5 -foot sid ewalk. Commissioner Schinderle asked their feeling about the traffic studies. Mr. Phillipchuck said they felt based on traffic volumes have been established under the previous subdivisions and the pavement construction that it would be consistent with the cross section. He said there would not be any more or less traffic on Meadow Lane through our subdivision than there is through Walker’s Grove or the other ones continuing on. He said they did not feel there was a need to do a traffic study to determ ine the thickness. He said as far as what is needed at 127 th and Rt. 30, they recognize that as the Village does that it is an ailing intersection and they rate these by grades and that is a poor grade. He said they have agreed to the impact fee and othe r developments will be coming in and contributing to that. He said a temporary signal is probably one of the first things that needs to be addressed at Rt. 30 and 127 th . He said they will be working with Joe and Howard on the final engineering. Chairman Sobkoviak said it was Joe’s job to show us where we differ from the ordinances. Mr. Phillipchuck said they are addressing the well site in Prairie Ponds. He said it was never intended to go here. He thought Sohol had a spot for it but they thought Prai rie Ponds would be proceeding sooner. Commissioner Gehrke asked how wide is the pipe line easement? Mr. Phillipchuck said 125 feet. Commissioner Gehrke asked if they obtained the letter we requested back in ’99 from the gas company as to how far you hav e to be from the pipeline to have a home. Mr. Phillipchuck said he did not get a letter but he researched their title and looked at the easement document. He said there are no restrictions beyond the 125 easement. He said they only acquired an easement here, they do not have ownership so they do not have any rights
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 5 outside of the easement area so there are no restrictions as to how close we can construct anything to the actual easement only to the pipe and that is within the easement. Commissioner Gehrk e said you are assuming that that 125 feet is safe. Mr. Phillipchuck said yes. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if they could give us an idea how far the house will be from the easement. They responded the way the easement is set up they have 35 feet from the p ipe to easement so if a lot has a 10 -foot sideyard they will be 47 ½ feet from the pipe. Chairman Sobkoviak said most of them will be backyards, what will be a ball park figure of how far the footing will be from the pipe. Planner Carroll said they will have at least 30 -foot setback for a rear yard so it would be about 70 feet. Mr. Phillipchuck said there were three pipes. Commissioner Gehrke said that same pipeline goes through her farm and they told her we have to stay 60 feet, Mr. King’s dad was invo lved in it also, and we have to stay 60 feet away from the pipeline with any building. She said she wanted to make sure we were not putting houses closer than that. She said they have an easement also. Mr. Phillipchuck said to check the easement langua ge. He said each owner negotiated their own so it could vary from property owner to property owner. Chairman Sobkoviak said they like to pad things so if they have to come in there digging, there would not be any structure that they might damage. Commis sioner Gehrke said she did not want them to hit it as it is a pipeline. Mr. Phillipchuck said they check they very often and when they go in to do their work they have to notify them and work closely with them as to the engineering. Commissioner Gehrke s aid thank you. Commissioner Millan said the arterial street (Meadow Lane) is getting quite dense with traffic as it stands and he could see it is becoming a significant thoroughfare from 127 th to 135 th . He asked if something could be done to either slow the traffic down or get another arterial street going through from the Tuttle Farm to Walkers Grove. Mr. Phillipchuck said there are really no connections other than the one stub out of Walkers Grove to our property so there isn’t the ability to get ano ther north south road. He said we are trying to disburse traffic east and west but you are right that Meadow Lane is planned to be our north south reliever. He said as far as slowing the traffic, depending on what the
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 6 Village chooses to do, whether they allow parking on it or no parking. He said parking on one side tends to slow it even more. He said you have to weigh how much traffic we want to move versus how fast we want it to move. Commissioner Millan said he is concerned with potential problems th at could arise at that intersection. He said the intersection is almost a duplicate to the one where there was a bus accident a few years ago. Chairman Sobkoviak said he thought the state has written new regulations for traffic control devices within 150 feet of railroad tracks. Commissioner Kachel said they have the big gates that come down since the accident in Kankakee. He said that might be a potential for that crossing. Chairman Sobkoviak said that is outside this property. He said one issue is t he traffic study. Commissioner Kachel said if IDOT is warranting this is a bad intersection – why spend the money if the state is already recognizing. Joe Regis said he would like to know what traffic they are going to generate at the intersection and marry it together with traffic studies from other developers and share with the state so we can begin to see at what point signalization will be necessary at that intersection. Commissioner Kachel said anything done from Aurora all the way down through is going to warrant signalization at the major intersections. He said with housing further west, we already know it will be warranted to move the traffic across Rt. 30. Chairman Sobkoviak said the engineer’s report is required to confirm pavement thickness . Joe Regis said he would like their estimate of what traffic they are going to generate and we will use that as a planning tool. He said he was not going to ask them to do a traffic study and then hit them with a $150,000 traffic signal. He said the se cond issue is the traffic study indicates whether the street thickness and code is sufficient for the traffic. Commissioner Schinderle asked if we required that of other developers? Joe Regis said it has been required. He said we need minimums, if we ha ve their traffic counts plus Sohol’s traffic counts plus another development’s traffic counts - we begin to marry these traffic studies and we have a rough idea based on a time line of the growth of some of these developments when additional improvements m ay be made to 127 th Street. Mr. Phillipchuck said he did not know if Joe had seen the traffic study submitted by Grande Prairie now Grande Park developers. He said that it addresses 127 th Street, the intersection of 127 th and Rt. 30, it addresses roads s imilar to this. He said their engineer could give Joe numbers on what we anticipate in our development based on their traffic design standards.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 7 Joe Regis said the Grande Prairie traffic study analysis Grande Prairie traffic but it does not analysis thi s particular project. We want these numbers to add to Grande Prairie’s and if something else on 127 th Street comes in, we add those numbers. Commissioner Schinderle said if they can give you the numbers will that meet your needs? Joe Regis said yes. He said they take their additional traffic and add to the studies they have. Commissioner Kachel asked if there is not civilization at the next area but there is a stop that people have to come into – anyplace we have got on Rt. 59 or Rt. 30 is a turn lane which you will probably end up with one on Rt. 30. He said that turn lane will probably tie in at the pie all the way down rather than have one widened section and then have another one later. He said Rt. 59 goes in and out. Mr. Phillipchuck asked about the 5 lots by the park site. He said the Park District has a plan that can work with the lots. Chairman Sobkoviak said he did not hear anyone objecting to the placement of those 5 lots. Commissioner Schinderle said he thought he heard someone said the next development was setting up lots in the same line and that was acceptable to the Park District. Mike Schoppe said he believed they had 6 lots. Commissioner Schinderle asked if they feel that would be a problem of visibility for the park or a problem when people park or people cutting through yards to get to the park rather than going to the parking lot. John Vann said it was a relatively short distance to the access points. He said an access point planned at the gas easement plus after an addition al 6 lots you get into the greenway of the plan providing access and trails in through there. He said possibly a parking lot there too. He said they recognize the potential possibility of cut throughs. He said we have situations throughout the district already. He said they are satisfied with the deals and negotiations at this point in time Chairman Sobkoviak said people are always free to put up a fence. He asked if everyone was satisfied with that. He said the other issue was the proposed 25 -foot p avement width and a 60 -foot right -of -way does not meet the Village minimum of 28 feet and 66 feet. He said we have approved that width and configuration in other subdivisions. He asked if we wish to continue it in this subdivision. Commissioner Schin derle asked the subdivisions south of them have that now. Planner Carroll said he thought Nature’s Crossing does but was not sure about Walkers Grove. Commissioner Schinderle said it is not feasible to go from a narrow to a wide and then back down.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 8 Pl anner Carroll was the connecting street is Meadow Lane and it is the same. Mr. Phillipchuck said the Nature’s Crossing streets has the paved cross -section that ties in with the paved cross -section with Prairie Ponds and is the same cross -section in the Sohol property that you will see next month. He said as they interconnect this subdivision will match as Walkers Grove does with Meadow Lane. Commissioner Anderson asked how major the east west street called B Street was and how much traffic it would be carrying. Mr. Phillipchuck said nothing like Meadow Lane. He said the Village did a study identifying a need for north south roads. He said that is why Meadow is one of our big collectors and of course Heggs is anticipated to be improved and then we mov e over to Stewart the future WIKADUKE. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if they were in agreement to approve the pavement width as proposed. They agreed. Commissioner Kachel asked if we take the easements, detention and retention out of this particular how muc h green space percentage would be considered green space. Mr. Phillipchuck said 6.3 acres. He said the owe 5.2. John Vann agreed they are meeting their ordinance plus they are giving the gas line easement. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there was a prop osed walkway, curb cut or something to get from that street into the park area or is it just going to be grass area into the curb. Mr. Phillipchuck said there will be a sidewalk to take you to the open space. John Vann said most likely there will be a tr ail. He said they only just started working on the concept plan. Mr. Phillipchuck said the cul -de -sacs are open on the ends so you will see all the greenway and it makes it easier for snow removal. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the cul -de -sacs were teardr op and asked about the planting thing in the center. He felt we needed the street department to look at that. Mr. Phillipchuck said some public work departments do not like them. He said the beauty of not having that sea of asphalt looks better for the community. Chairman Sobkoviak said their desires have to be the deciding factor. He said you have a document from the Fire Department that they have reviewed this. He said he presumed they have reviewed the dimensions of the cul -de -sacs and they can tur n their big equipment around.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 9 Mr. Phillipchuck said they like the tear drop design because it is easier. Chairman Sobkoviak said all approvals are subject to approval of the Fire District. He said if they want an extra fire hydrant they will get it. He asked if there was any other questions or discussion. He said the primary question we have to answer is annexation. He asked if this was a logical extension of the village boundary and if so the second question is what is the desire of zoning category a nd the third question is approval or disapproval of the preliminary plat. He said it would appear it is a logical extension of village boundaries and we are in conversation with other developers to the north and west to obtain pre -annexation agreements. He said we have just established a new boundary agreement with the City of Yorkville to the west. He said certainly this was a logical extension of village boundary and the most logical zoning classification will be residential. He said if there is no fur ther discussion we will let that go and concentrate on the preliminary plat. He asked for arguments, comments or issues that need to be brought forward. He said we do not want to get to final plat and have to make changes. He said if there was no discus sion the chair would welcome a motion. Commissioner Kachel made a motion to recommend annexation with R -1 zoning along with approval of the preliminary plat subject to the five stipulations as noted in the staff report. Commissioner Millan seconded the mo tion. Vote by roll call: AYE: Millan, Kachel, Gehrke, Schinderle, Anderson and Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 6 -0 Motion carried. Chairman Sobkoviak told the applicant to be in touch with Staff for the next hearing date. CASE NO: 849 -120100.FP KENSINGTON C LUB UNIT 2 Planner Carroll stated the applicant is seeking final plat approval for Unit 2 of Kensington Club. He indicated the site was located in the northwest corner of 127 th and Van Dyke Road. He said the subdivision was approved with 310 single -famil y homes on approximately 162 acres. He said Unit 2 consists of 43 single -family units on approximately 32 acres. He said the minimum lot size for Unit 2 is 10,500 square feet. He said there are three issues with this final plat. He said originally the applicant was approved to install an 8 -foot asphalt bike path along the east side of Van Dyke Road. He said there is also a bike path on the west side of Van Dyke Road. He said the Police Chief and the Plainfield Township Park District has raised some co ncerns with bikers and walkers on the same path. He said the Police Chief has requested a 5 -foot concrete sidewalk instead of the bike path. He said the problem is Unit 1 has already started final engineering. He said as well we have a developer to the south and he has agreed to install that 5 -foot sidewalk so we will have some continuity along Van Dyke Road. Commissioner Schinderle asked how that would make it safer with bikers traveling on the same piece of property.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 10 Planner Carroll said it is th e Chief’s experience that if you do not have a separate sidewalk and bike path that there will be mixed users. He said there will be a bike path on the west side of Van Dyke Road. He said the applicants want to address this issue. Planner Carroll said the other issue was the bike path on the south side of 127 th Street. He said the new standard for a bike path is 10 feet. He said the applicant has agreed to that. He said the third was the Fire Protection District has requested some street name change s and that has already been done. He said they just need to submit a landscaping plan prior to Village Board consideration. He said Staff recommends approval. Joe Regis, Hamilton Engineering, said they are asking that they consider constructing Van Dyke Road and 127 th Street during the summer as opposed to the beginning of the year. He said this could limit inconvenience to the school in the fall. He said they need to add sump pump collection lines to all the properties including those adjacent to stor mwater facilities. He said the first is a suggestion and recommendation and the second is something they will have to do. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the applicant was in receipt of the engineer’s letter and asked him to identify himself. Dan Vernard, P ulte Homes, said they received the letter and staff’s comments as well. He said they have other bike paths connecting with the commercial and the park. He said this is like the collector streets. He felt the middle school children would be riding their bikes and the likelihood of them crossing Van Dyke to use the bike path. He said they felt it was advantageous to keep the bike path. He said the sump pump collection is consistent with what they have in Unit 1 and they do not have a problem with that. He said with regard to construction of Van Dyke and 127 th – being limited to summer time construction would be a tight corridor. He said they are required to have these improvements completed by December of this year so we are anticipating spring start to get this complete especially to coincide with the work on Rt. 59. He said we would like to and plan to start in the spring. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if they had any other issues or concerns with the staff report or engineer report. Dan Vernard said n o. Commissioner Kachel said in other states where there are bike paths it is actually lined off where people can walk on it. He said he thought it would be safer for kids to go up and down or a wheel chair have it wider rather than to narrow it down. He said we want Van Dyke to be pretty much a thoroughfare. He said you may see two bike paths by a thoroughfare. He said unless you are going to put in a signal to cross Van Dyke. Planner Carroll said it was at Village Board level that the bike path got p ut in on the west side. Chairman Sobkoviak asked how many kids would cross the street to use the bike path. Commissioner Schinderle said they are not going to, they will take the line of least resistance.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 11 Commissioners Kachel and Schinderle both felt th e path should stay wider. Commissioner Schinderle said to put a line down it for walkers. Chairman Sobkoviak said with all due respect to the Chief, he felt keeping the 8 -foot bike path was better. He asked who will own the bike path. Planner Carroll s aid typically the Village. Dan Vernard said the Village as it is in the right -of -way. Chairman Sobkoviak asked how much it would cost to draw a strip on it that everybody will probably ignore but will make us feel better. Commissioner Kachel brought up electric scooters. John Vann said electric scooters said that is a whole new one. He said they are going through their ordinances now. He said it falls into the classification of motorized vehicle and they are prohibited. Commissioner Kachel said he was talking about a wheelchair or handicap facilities. John Vann said system devices are allowed by ordinance. He said if the Plan Commission is looking for a bike path the standard is 10 feet. He said they have allowed an 8 -foot path is some areas. H e said drivers like to expect bicycles coming at them from one direction or in one location. He said the majority of traffic accidents that occur between vehicles and cars. He said a car will get into a traffic intersection, see a bike path on one side a nd is going to assume that is where all the bikes are coming from. He will turn left without looking and cross another bike path. He said that is the big concern about having dedicated bike paths with two -way travel on both sides of the road. He said tr aditionally if you put the lanes on the road, they are moving with the lane of cars. Commissioner Kachel said if this did remain this way and you have a whole subdivision with bike paths within it, you get an intersection like that going across Van Dyke Road and future bike paths, so if you put a signalization I there, you could have a sidewalk in that area and go along with what the Chief says but that intersection would have to be signalized. John Vann said you would need a signalized crossing. Com missioner Kachel asked if we could do that without a problem? John Vann asked if he was talking about the main entrance of Kensington or at 127 th . Commissioner Kachel said he was talking about the main entrance. He asked what he was planning with his bi ke paths when we run into that type of situation. John Vann said he is looking for street intersections, as it is safest to cross at a street intersection or a mid -block crossing and a long distance between driveways or intersections. He said this coul d have a push button crossing to get to the other side.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 12 Dan Vernard asked what intersection they were talking about. Commissioner Kachel said if you did not have a bike path and we went along with what the Chief said and you were talking about people m aking use of your bike path, you would have a push button where they could cross Van Dyke Road. He said that would be a safety issue. Dan Vernard said he did not know how that would potentially solve the path of least resistance when the kids are still g oing north and the school is on this side then they have to cross back over to the school. Commissioner Kachel asked if they could go with the 10 -foot bike path. Dan Vernard said they have a 50 -foot right -of -way. He said their engineer checked to see if they had room for the 10 -foot path with a foot on each side. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if anyone in the audience would like to make a comment. Gwen Krahn said she has been walking a lot especially in Florida and there is every kind of traffic on the wa lk path and bike path and he said a simple line down the middle helps a lot. She said people pick a spot and move within that space. Joe Regis said weaving stuff you have done in the past, some traffic engineering concepts and village policy. He said it could be acceptable to provide a 10 -foot wide bike path on one side with a satellite stripe and a 5 -foot sidewalk on the other. He said he would not recommend stripping the 5 -foot sidewalk. Chairman Sobkoviak said the idea of the 5 -foot sidewalk was so two baby carriages could pass without somebody having to move off the walk. Joe Regis said it has been policy near schools in terms of Walkers Grove School and 135 th Street where you have a pedestrian signal crossing. He said there is a case where you ha ve to cross 135 th Street to go from Harvest Glen up to the north side of 135 th Street. He said he has seen kids ride on the south side and not use that crossing even though it was put in for them to use. He said we have them put one in but the kids do no t use them. Chairman Sobkoviak said we have to do what is right and kids will be kids. Joe Regis said in talking with Doug it sounds like originally there was an 8 -foot bike path on one side only. He said the Board at some date added one on each sid e and now we are considering a 10 and 5. He said that is policy decision and all of that you can support. He said you can go with 8 and 0 or. Dan Vernard said he was not sure that was Village Board that was 10 and 5. He said that is were the issue is g etting skewed. He said Village Board already approved and it has already been engineered for one site is now an outside committee that is making a recommendation.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 13 Chairman Sobkoviak asked what hardship would be imposed upon you to change from an 8 -foot a sphalt walkway to a 5 -foot wide concrete walkway? Dan Vernard said the largest hardship is going to be in the future when it is developed to the north and south. He said we are loosing 3 -foot of useful pavement that we are willing to put in that everyone is going to transverse safely on it. John Vann said for point of argument there is one thing, this whole argument is premised on the middle school and all the movement to the middle school. He said you have an elementary school on the other side of Van Dyke in Wilding Grove. He said all of those kids are going to have to cross Van Dyke Road. He told Dan Vernard you are premising that all the kids are going to use your trail to go to school while I am premising all your kids are going to use the trail o n the west side to go to the elementary school. Chairman Sobkoviak said he was trying to find a way to conform to Chief Bennett’s suggestion. He said his inclination is that we go out and hire the big -ticket advisors and he thought we need to listen to them. Joe Regis said to let the Board and the Chief have the final discussion. Chairman Sobkoviak said we need to go forward, not to hand this off and pass the buck. He said let’s make a recommendation and then the Village Board has the option of pi cking it up or making a different decision. Commissioner Schinderle said personally he would prefer to see it stay the way it was. Commissioner Millan said more is better. Chairman Sobkoviak said he was sure kids would ride their bikes there whether it was concrete or gravel. Commissioner Kachel said if they want to walk on it they still can. He said there should be some sort of pushbutton there or some type of crossing at the intersection. Chairman Sobkoviak said he is hearing we will acknowledge the advice of the Chief but we do not agree with it. He said it is our opinion that the kids will simply ride on a 5 -foot wide sidewalk instead of an 8 -foot wide path. Commissioner Kachel said he wanted to put a notation as far as signalization for som e type of crossing to get across Van Dyke Road especially since we are talking about a grade school on the other side of the street. Chairman Sobkoviak said we can direct Staff to litigate the funding that will be needed for a push button type crossing. He asked if we were comfortable with the lot sizes that they conform with the preliminary plat. Commissioner Schinderle said yes.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 14 Chairman Sobkoviak asked about the engineer’s report. Dan Vernard said items 2 through 7 are issues that our engineer recei ved and we are ok with them. He said it is just constructing through the summer season that would jeopardize meeting our Village Board deadline of December of this year. He said that is a pretty good stretch of road along 127 th along with Van Dyke especi ally with IDOT’s plans along 59. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if this was a reasonable request. He asked if this was a suggestion from the School District. Planner Carroll said it was from the traffic committee. Commissioners Kachel and Schinderle both sai d the sooner they get started, the sooner they will finish. Commissioner Kachel said right now the frost is not very deep in the ground. Chairman Sobkoviak said he would suggest we not tinker with this because a couple of weeks of rain could throw this t hing off to the point it doesn’t get done. Dan Vernard said he would submit it to their engineer and their construction staff. He said he thinks it is a 5 to 6 month job with a note of weather conditions. He said you can pave as late as December 31 but if the weather hits on Thanksgiving and they close the plants, our hands are tied. We want to give ourselves that leeway and plan forward. He said he would have his engineer discuss it with Joe Regis’ office. Jack Weber, Pulte Homes, said we met with St aff as well as Howard regarding this issue with improvements to Van Dyke and 127 th Street and how we were going to handle the traffic. He said it was discussed at that meeting that Pulte would be hiring as part of their bid and part of the consultant’s wo rk to have traffic control out on the street. He said in the event that something may need to be closed down for a period of time it would be coordinated with the municipality, police and fire departments would be alerted. He said he would hate to restri ct it to a start date certain such as August when we have to be completed by December 31. He said we have weather conditions that do prohibit work. Commissioner Schinderle asked if they were going to be able to coordinate with what IDOT is setting up f or Rt. 59 because if you are rerouting traffic for 59 to Van Dyke. Jack Weber said they have meet extensively with IDOT and he said as he understands it, as IDOT is going down the east side of 59 and then come back on the west side. He said by the time t hey get up Van Dyke out to 59 we hope to catch them as they come back. He said IDOT will be coming back 150 -200 feet to make improvements. He said we will have our right of way in and we will stop and they will come in and do the full intersection improv ement and tie it all in. Commissioner Kachel said it might be done earlier. He said it is tough to work with restrictions on that.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 15 Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there were any other issues or concerns. He said noting the four stipulations in the Planner’s report – number 3 is provide a ten foot wide asphalt bike path along the south of 127 th Street. He said that has been agreed too. He said number 4 is submit a landscaping plan prior to Village Board consideration. They agreed to do so. He asked if any one could identify any issue or concern. Commissioner Schinderle made a motion to recommend approval of the final plat for Kensington Club Unit 2 subject to the four stipulations in staff’s report. Commissioner Kachel asked if we put anything in regardin g signalization. Chairman Sobkoviak said we have directed Staff to investigate the funding and planning to have that installed. Commissioner Anderson seconded the motion. Jack Weber asked prior to the vote about the stipulations in the engineer’s report . Chairman Sobkoviak said the Planner’s report refers to the engineer’s report. He said the Commission has found that items 2 through 7 have been agreed to by the petitioner and stipulation number 1 is waived. Vote by roll call: AYE: Millan, Kachel, Geh rke, Schinderle, Anderson and Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote: 6 -0 Chairman Sobkoviak told the applicant to be in touch with Staff for the next hearing date. Chairman Sobkoviak said the case no. 834 -011601.FP regarding the Weinhold property has been withdrawn and will be rescheduled at a later date. CASE NO: 843 -120800.SPR EXXONMOBILE Planner Carroll said this is a site plan review for the northwest corner of Division (IL 50) and Main Street (IL 126). He said with the improvements to IL 59, the applicant is forced to redevelop the site. He said the applicant will be demolishing the existing gas station and replacing it with a new service station, a convenience store and car wash. He said village ordinance requires 5.5 parking spaces per 1000 square feet of gross floor area and also 30 reservoir for stacking spaces for the car wash. He said this site requires about 22 spaces and they have actually given us 28 parking spaces. He said one problem we have is the stacking. He indicated on the plat the location of the car wash. He said it appears they cannot fit 30 stacking spaces. He said according to the applicant, they have 19. Chairman Sobkoviak asked how we came up with 30 spaces. Planner Carroll said he had no idea.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 16 Chairman Sobkoviak said he freque nts the filling station at the other end of town and if you had 10 in a row there you have a lot. He said you may have 10 in a row all day long but people will not wait that long. Commissioner Kachel asked if that was for a car wash like a full service car wash. He said this type of car wash is different. Planner Carroll said an eating establishment with drive through window requires 10 stacking spaces or 5 parking spaces and a bank requires 20 or 5 parking spaces per drive up teller. Planner Carro ll said that is one issue we need to address. He said stall lengths are indicated at 18 feet and village requirements are 18.5 feet. He said to the southwest of this site we have a building which is a registered historic landmark. He said beginning at t he southwest intersection of Rt. 59 and IL 126 the Village will be adopting design standards. He said this entrance is really an entranceway into the downtown so Staff feels it is appropriate to look for a design sensitive building. He said maybe take so me historic design elements maybe even dormers, maybe add some false dormers to the facade or awnings. He felt it is important to have some sensitive design. He indicated the location of the stormwater detention. He said for the net developed area of t his site is approximately 104,000 square feet and Village requirements for landscaping would be about 143 plantings. He said the preliminary landscape plan proposed 147 plantings. He said the B -4 zoning district also required a minimum of 20 feet of land scaped buffer adjacent to residential district. He said we have residential to the top of this site which would be to the west of the subject site. He said it was absent from the preliminary landscape plan. He said the Village requires no less than 75% opacity with a minimum mature height of 6 feet. He said Staff would look for that buffering. He said sidewalks should be provided on this site to link this to downtown. He indicated the trash enclosure was provided near the car wash and it meets village requirements as far as screening. He said the applicant will need to provide a lighting plan prior to Village Board approval. He said this site is adjacent to the DuPage River and Staff has asked about the possibility of donating since that area is most ly floodplain anyway, of donating a majority that is there to the Plainfield Township Park District. He said Staff recommends approval of the site plan subject to stipulations outlined in the Staff report. Joe Regis, representative of Hamilton Engineerin g, said the only comment is IDOT has been looking for a water utility easement to serve their pump station as part of the Route 59 series of projects. He said we would recommend that the easement be granted as soon as possible. He said the rest is engine ering. Joe Johnson, Tech Express representing Exxon Mobile, said they have reviewed all comments by Staff and Engineering and have corrected everything except the lighting has not been resubmitted. He said that will be in next week. He said the only thi ng that caught him off guard was the IDOT easement requirement. He said he was not aware of it and they will certainly address it post haste. Joe Regis said he believed it was away from your facility, away from the stormwater detention area and should be in the floodplain.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 17 Joe Johnson said that was fine, it just was the first he had heard of it. He said it is not a problem. He presented a new facade plan that showed fake dormers across the front of the building. He said there is not a lot they can do without a complete re -design. He said they would entertain any other suggestions if that was not adequate. Commissioner Kachel asked if there was anything they could do to the southwest portion going down Main Street. Joe Johnson said the majority f acing the historical building will be hidden by the car wash. Commissioner Kachel asked about the car wash. Joe Johnson said that is strictly a flat building with a squared off. Commissioner Kachel said that was his main concern. Joe Johnson said t hey had not addressed that. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if we could leave this up to them to come up with something before it goes to the Village Board. He suggested something that would compliment the building. Commissioner Kachel said yes. He asked if they noticed the cash station across the street. Joe Johnson explained their stacking and stated people will not wait that long. He described the car wash and the time involved to wash one car. Chairman Sobkoviak said if it is 5 minutes and there are seven cars in front of you that is a 35 -minute wait already. Commissioner Kachel said if he sees more than 6 cars he will not wait. Joe Johnson asked if they wanted to see him in compliance with the ordinance. Commissioner Schinderle suggested changi ng the ordinance. Chairman Sobkoviak said at this point they would waive it and direct Staff to investigate stacking. He said we probably need something that is flexible. He said for a drive -in restaurant you might want more. Joe Johnson said the only other subject they are not in compliance with at this time is the donated land to the Park District. He said they ran out of time. He said he will work with them. Commissioner Kachel asked about the detention area. Joe Johnson said he wanted to sit dow n with them, show them the land that can be used.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 18 John Vann said we have stipulations for why and when we will take detention basin. He said if it is dry you can make use of it, but if it is wet you cannot have anybody near it. Chairman Sobkoviak aske d the public for comments or questions. There were none. Commissioner Schinderle said with the changes to the building he thought it would be a nice addition. Chairman Sobkoviak said this is the third time we have seen this property. Gwen Krahn asked i f the lighting would be the same. Joe Johnson said all the area lighting would be internally directed downcast. Chairman Sobkoviak said we are looking at the headlights. He said we looked at this location for a Burger King and McDonalds and neither happened. He said this is really an extension of what is there. Commissioner Kachel said he was concerned with the canopy lighting Chairman Sobkoviak said we need to discuss the buffer area also. Joe Johnson said he has not found the guidelines for th e lighting in our ordinance. He said there are several types of fixtures they can use to give the type of lighting they want. Commissioner Kachel suggested if you go further on Rt. 59 some have fencing and you do not even see it. Chairman Sobkoviak aske d Planner Carroll how to characterize this buffer. Planner Carroll said 75% opacity with a minimum mature height of 6 feet. Commissioner Kachel said he felt they needed more than 6 feet to block out lighting. Commissioner Schinderle asked if the homes o n Penn Road were higher than the gas station. He said there is some difference between the level this is on and the houses. Commissioner Kachel said you do look down into it. Chairman Sobkoviak asked how high are you going to have to make the trees to b lock it. Commissioner Kachel said more would be the best way to go. He said primarily he is looking at the light. Commissioner Schinderle asked where the lot line ends. He asked if it is the embankment, on top of the embankment or where do they have to put their buffer.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 19 Commissioner Kachel said if it is down here it is not enough, if it is on top that is a different subject. Chairman Sobkoviak said it has to be on their property. Joe Regis said from the grading plan and it is limited in information, it looked like the houses and there is 4 foot of fall from where this mapping ends and there is no structure showing the houses on Penn Road. He said is a slight depression maybe 2 or 3 feet down into the landscaping area and then we build back up to the facility again. He said it looks like they are bringing in some fill in on the western limits of back where the stacking is by the car wash. Commissioner Kachel said to take a look at it as it is going to be a sensitive area. He said we are getting a crossing across the bridge. He said it was his understanding it was going to be on the west side of the river. He asked if it was going to be a bike trail or sidewalk. He said whatever it is should be able to take bikes too. Planner Carroll said it w as his understanding it is a sidewalk. Commissioner Kachel said we should check into it. John Vann said he thought it was sidewalk also. He said the only way they will be able to bring people off into downtown in that area will be to bring a separate bridge across and into Riverview Park behind the new Riverview Center and then they will come up Naperville Road. Chairman Sobkoviak asked the applicant and Commissioners if they were in agreement with the Engineer’s report, if there were any issues with the Fire Protection District. Joe Johnson said no, they had a request to add a hydrant and have done so. Chairman Sobkoviak asked about stipulation number 3 in Staff’s report to revise stall lengths per Village Ordinance and submit lighting specification s. Joe Johnson said that they have revised the stall lengths already and will submit the lighting specifications. Chairman Sobkoviak asked about stipulation number 5 in Staff’s report regarding the 75% visual screen at a minimum mature height of 6 feet. Planner Carroll said the minimum is 75%. Chairman Sobkoviak stated he did not like the wording but decided to go with it. He said stipulation 6 is to provide sidewalks along the project frontage that would be both 126 and highway 59. Commissioner Ka chel said something has to be put in to take a look at the grading. He asked if that would be a right in right out.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES January 16, 2001 Page 20 Joe Johnson said IDOT has required us to make it right only. Planner Carroll said to go by Village Ordinance. Commissioner Millan made a motion to recommend approval of the site plan for Exxon Mobile subject to the stipulations provided by Staff. Commissioner Kachel seconded the motion. Commissioner Anderson asked if that included the language we had earlier regarding the stacking. Cha irman Sobkoviak said that includes the waiver of the requirement of 30 cars in the stacking lane and Staff to determine the appropriate amount of stacking required prior to presentation to Village Board. Joe Johnson said we have 19 shown. Chairman Sobk oviak said we will waive the stacking requirement and reduce it to 19 or less. Commissioner Kachel said we should put in something more to soften the car wash more. Chairman Sobkoviak said we have requested the applicant to show a design for the car wash to compliment the main building and he agreed to it on public record. Vote by roll call: AYE: Millan, Kachel, Gehrke, Schinderle, Anderson and Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote: 6 -0 Planner Carroll reminded the Plan Commissioners of the special meeting February 7, 2001 at 7:00 p.m. at the High School auditorium for Grande Prairie. Chairman Sobkoviak adjourned the meeting. Meeting Adjourned: 9:20 p.m. Merrilee Eighner