HomeMy Public PortalAbout2001-04-17 PC minutesMINUTES PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISISON DATE: April 17, 2001 AT: Village Meeting Hall Chairman Sobkoviak called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. and led the pledge to the flag. Roll Call: PRESENT: Commissioners Kachel, Seggebruch, Gehrke and Sobkovi ak ABSENT: Commissioners Manning, Anderson and Schinderle Park, School, Fire and Library Districts The minutes from March 6, 2001 and March 20, 2001 were accepted as presented. Planning and Development report: Planner Garrigan stated the Village Board continued the Grande Park annexation to May 21, 2001; with respect to Chaplin Farm annexation – the Village Board directed the Village Attorney to draft an ordinance authorizing the execution of the annexation agreement and approved the preliminary plat; w ith respect to Sohol annexation – the Village Board continued this to May 21, 2001 for further consideration; with respect to Arbor of Plainfield - the Village Board approved a final plat for Unit 3; with respect to 503 Division – the Village Board directe d the Village Attorney to draft an ordinance rezoning 503 Division from R -1 to BTD. Planner Garrigan introduced Planner Dale Drayna as the newest member of Staff as code enforcement planner. He stated he has been with us approximately 1 month. Old Busin ess: CASE NO: 854 -011801.V/SPR ANIMAL CARE CENTER Planner Garrigan said we heard this previously and the reason for its return is proper notice was not given to adjacent property owners. Chairman Sobkoviak said we have already approved this once already . He asked if anyone in the audience who would care to make a statement or ask a question regarding the site plan review of the animal care hospital on Rt. 59. Commissioner Kachel asked as far as notification of property owners, when we have new proper ties brought before us that are on old properties existing in reference to the gas station that was on Rt. 59, we do not have to notify property owners if they are tearing down a building. He said it is my understanding that we do not. He said we are tea ring down a building and building a brand new building we do not have to notify. Chairman Sobkoviak said as long as there is not a zoning change. Commissioner Kachel said you have lighting, you have everything. Chairman Sobkoviak said then you have site plan. Planner Garrigan said there is no requirement for site plan review in Illinois Statutes no jurisdictional statute to give adjacent property owners notice nor is there a requirement within the four corners of our Village Ordinance with respect to gi ving adjacent property owners legal notice with respect to the site plan ordinance.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 2 Chairman Sobkoviak said the site plan ordinance only covers an acre and a half, he said there is a size limit. He said if it comes down to an individual lot that is not c overed in the site plan ordinance. Commissioner Kachel said the fact that you are near the Historical District, the fact that you are trying to maintain an image, when a building comes down. He said we have created BTD so we would not have things on that end of it. He said his feeling if there are buildings that are going to be coming down, it is impacts the whole Village what goes up there. He said if you have property owners and there are concerns, it is a small cluster you are talking about, Historic al, overlay and BTD together. He thought something should be looked at on that end of it. Chairman Sobkoviak said if you want to tinker with the ordinance. Commissioner Kachel said it is a kind of tender thing we are talking about and he thought some of the property owners. Chairman Sobkoviak said getting back to the animal care center, he needs a motion for the site plan review. Commissioner Kachel made a motion to recommend approval of the site plan as the applicant has met the necessary findings sub ject to the following stipulations: 1. Compliance with the requirements of the Village Engineer. 2. Compliance with the recommendations of the Fire Protection District. 3. Addition of landscaping plantings and trash receptacle enclosure in accordance with the site plan review ordinance. Seconded by Commissioner Gehrke. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel; Seggebruch; Gehrke; Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote – 4 -0 Motion carried. CASE NO: 844 -121500.AA/PP TUTTLE PROPERTY Planner Garrigan said this is a request for annexation and preliminary plat approval for 120 acres located south of 127 th and north of Walkers Grove and Nature’s Crossing. He said currently the property is zoned Will County A -1. He said our Comprehensive Plan references this as Village Suburban for the easte rn ¾ and Estate for the western ¼ of the site. He said this case was before the Plan Commission January 16, 2001. He said at that time the Plan Commission recommended approval of the annexation and approval of the preliminary plat. He said no changes ha ve been made to the preliminary plat, none were required since January 16 th . He said currently the developer is requesting approval to develop 120 acres to build 250 single -family homes. He said the applicant is seeking approval of the annexation and pr eliminary plat. He said Staff reviewed this and the recommendation would be consistent with our previous recommendations to the Plan Commission. He said the gross density for Village Suburban is 2.5 and this development is 2.08 dwellings per acre. He sa id the lot widths fall within the Village requirements of 85 feet. He said the proposed densities for this development is consistent with the surroundings developments. He said with respect to open space, the applicant is proposing 13 acres of park, 13 a cres for detention and an overall area of 30 acres of open space. He said the average lot size for this development would be 12,100 square feet with a minimum of 10,000 square feet and to reiterate a density of
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 3 2.08. He said the open space seems to be co nsistent with the request of Planning Staff. He said the concept plan suggested removal of lots 211 -215 to provide a visual corridor in the park area. He said the Plan Commission may want to consider that. He said with respect to corner lots, Staff reco mmends no access easements on lot lines adjacent to Meadow Lane and limited access on Meadow Lane. He said with respect to Plainfield Township Park District, the proposed plan shows a bike path along the south line of 127 th Street. He said in regards to street alignments, them seem to be consistent with the previous plan and Staff has had an opportunity to review that. He said Meadow Lane is a minor collector in the Village Transportation Plan. He said regards to annexation, the subject property is curr ently located in unincorporated Will County and is in fact contiguous to the Village’s corporate limits via Walker’s Grove and Nature’s Crossing. He said it is also within the Facility Planning Area. He said Staff feels the property is a logical extensio n of the Village limits. Planner Garrigan said the requested zoning is R -1. He said Staff reviewed that and feels that is consistent with the ordinance. He said the overall layout of this plan is good in Staff’s opinion. He said there is a four -prong i ssue that require Plan Commission direction: is it a logical extension of the Village boundaries? Does the Plan Commission support the proposed lot sizes? In regards to removing lots 211 -215 is it supported by the Plan Commission. He said Staff recomme nds annexation with the R -1 zoning and recommends approval of the preliminary plat subject to the stipulations in the Staff report. Chairman Sobkoviak asked Howard for comments. Commissioner Kachel asked the location of lots 211 –215. Howard Hamilton, Village engineer, said included in your packets is a January 16 th letter from our office. He said essentially the comments remain today. He said we discussed them at the previous meeting. He said one of those is Meadow Lane, the Village requires for a c ollector street a minimum 80’ wide right -of -way. He said however, in Walkers Grove and again in Chaplin Farm we have approved 66 feet with the 40’ setbacks for adjacent homes. He said 5’ sidewalks, that has been agreed to by the applicant. He said local streets 28’ wide back to back, village code is at 31. He said however the narrower streets are now recommended by the traffic committee. He said the traffic committee is making recommendations that are not consistent with village code. He said there ar e minor comments, relocation of some storm sewer structures and water main sizing and we are asking for a well site on this property. He said other than that there have been concerns about drainage and how this will affect Walkers Grove to the south. He said the applicant’s engineer is here and has some information he can share with us on that. Chairman Sobkoviak said he wanted to go over his letter. He said paragraph 1 regarding the street section for Meadow Lane. He said you are pointing out that it doesn’t meet our normal specifications but it is consistent with what we have approved north and south. Howard Hamilton said correct south and south. Chairman Sobkoviak said paragraph 3 you are pointing out that the pavement width does not meet the nor mal village specifications however the traffic committee has approved. Howard Hamilton said this is not a committee of the Board, it is a committee of Staff. Chairman Sobkoviak asked who might be on that committee.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 4 Ken Blaauw, Public Works Engineer, sai d myself, Chief Bennett, Larry Vaupel, Economic Development Director, Doug Carroll, Village Planner, Park District, Fire District, Joe Regis from Howard’s office. Commissioner Kachel said traffic study required … to propose pavement thickness. He said do n’t we know what we have in there before, isn’t that going to be consistent, you are not going to want different things in there. Howard Hamilton said the village code sets a minimum. He said every time the developer’s engineer goes through and calculate s the minimum is all that is needed. Commissioner Kachel said for Meadow Lane, it should be the same all the way through. He said there shouldn’t be any changes. Howard Hamilton said when we are talking about the thickness, we are not talking about wh at would make a difference. He said it will not make any difference with maintenance if it is thicker. Chairman Sobkoviak said then you are recommending approval. Howard Hamilton said yes subject to the seven comments. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the p etitioner or his representative was present. He asked if they were in receipt of Howard’s letter. John Philipchuck said yes. He said we have been through this once before and the reason we are back this evening is it was found that some of the adjacen t property owners did not get the original notice. He said because it is coming with the R -1 default zoning, it really wasn’t necessary to come back and have a public hearing but we knew there were some residents in Walkers Grove that did not get a notice so we decided to send a notice and have another hearing. He said the Plan Commission has been all through this once. He said for sake of … you did recommend approval the previous time as per the recommendation as set forth in the staff comments dated Ma rch 12 th and you did decide in the previous hearing that we would keep those lots along the east west street numbered 211 -215 and in fact supported the additional lots west on the Sohol piece that is immediately west so that there is a group of lots … acce ss to the park from both the east and west and then there is a pipeline access that is going to be going over the park district also as part of this request. He said just to refresh the Plan Commission’s memory. He said he thought the biggest issue proba bly tonight is to continue looking at the drainage issues. He said we had an informal discussion last time but we did not have a quorum and the neighbors were kind enough to stick around and give us some of their comments and concerns and as a result our engineer, Roake Engineers, Chuck Hulse is with us this evening. He said they have had discussions with Joe Regis and Howard about interim improvements that were put in Walkers Grove and how the new improvements are going to be coming into the Tuttle Farm will actually help benefit the drainage in the area as we develop these new subdivisions into some of the farm areas, if the drainage patterns coming from the farm fields and moves into the subdivisions like the case here and you go out and look at the Tut tle Farm as you go towards 127 th Street, the grade changes considerably so when you get the high rain events, they get a lot of runoff from the farm fields what they call sheet flow and it comes right into the subdivision. He said the Village did some sto p gap measures out there. He said there were some berms in their back yards. He said with the Tuttle Farm we will be putting in some detention so the lakes at the southern end of the property so this water will be collected in catch basins and it will be piped through these systems
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 5 held back so you do not get the initial surge off the property. He said there are emergency overflows into Meadow Lane. He said there is a storm sewer pipe that we would discharge into that goes through Walkers Grove Subdivis ion. He said that was designed in size to accommodate the proposed flow through from the property to the north, i.e. the Tuttle Farm. He said our western most property, there were some people from Natures Crossing at the last meeting and they had some qu estions. He said in that case we are working with the developer of the Sohol piece, that drainage from that corner of the property goes west to the West Norman Drain. He said we are working to get an easement so we can pipe from our detention facility we st to West Norman Drain. He said that will eliminate some of the flow going towards Natures Crossing. Commissioner Kachel asked if there was something up there so the public can see what we are talking about and it is another thing to visualize it. Joh n Philipchuck held up a plat for the Plan Commission to see and turned another one so the audience could see it. He said what we are referring to is, he indicated where Walkers Grove Subdivision and Natures Crossing Subdivision were located. He introduce d Chuck Hulse their engineer. Chuck Hulse presented a topography of what is existing now and the flow lines of the runoff as they exist today. He said we were speaking of the southwest part that goes into Natures Crossing and the majority that is directl y contributory to Walkers Grove. He said there is a section in the northwest corner that will discharge into the right -of -way of 127 th Street. He said that is the existing condition as it stands today. He said there is a considerable amount of sheet run off directly along the south property line. He said they are proposing to … that with these ponds along the south property lines. He indicated that two would be discharging into the storm sewer in Walkers Grove with the overflow routed to Meadow Lane and down and the southwest corner that is tributary to Natures Crossing heading directly to the West Norman Drain. John Philipchuck said then as you said there is a portion that drains this way, there is a detention facility here and then that discharges i nto the drainage swale at 127 th Street. He said there were questions last time from Mr. King regarding that. He said as far as the Staff report is concerned we are agreeing to follow the same pattern as far as Meadow Lane with the right -of -way and easeme nts to accommodate that. He said they will accommodate B Street (that is the east west street) to match up with what is being designed for the Sohol property. He said we will be putting the asphalt bike path along the south side of 127 th Street in lieu o f the concrete sidewalk. He said we have been working with the Park District on what features will be put in the large regional park and when you combine our acreage with the acreage they will be getting from the Sohol piece, we are going to have a wonder ful facility up on 127 th Street. He said Howard mentioned the well, it looks like Sohol or Prairie Ponds probably will get it. Howard said whoever comes in first gets it. John Philipchuck said they can accommodate that in either subdivision. He sai d he thought that was the issues. He said the adjoining property owners asked when the berms might be removed. He said that is not our responsibility, that is something they will work out with the Village. Chairman Sobkoviak asked Ken how much you were aware of the problems people have experienced on the north side of Walkers Grove where the berms have been constructed. Ken Blaauw said he worked directly with Howard and Chuck Hulse on trying to alleviate the problems. He said he was out there during si gnificant rain events to try to alleviate the initial
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 6 problems that the runoff was causing. He said they worked with Chuck’s firm in trying to create the stop … measures at which the developer of Walkers Grove Subdivision helped. Chairman Sobkoviak ask ed if there are plans to return these homeowners yards to something approaching original. Ken Blaauw said not that we ware aware. He said it was discussed in the past that at some point when the property to the north was developed that these would no lon ger be needed. He said when that would be taken care of was always when the property to the north came in. Chairman Sobkoviak said this is something that was hatched by the Village and it really is outside the jurisdiction of the Plan Commission however drainage is an issue that they need to address. Howard Hamilton said when this subdivision comes in with detention actually the water will be greatly reduced from this field and most of the water will be taken over to the West Norman Drain so that berms w ill not be necessary anymore. He said the problem becomes one of who will pay for removal of the berms and who would pay for restoration to the yards. He said we are working with the developer of Walkers Grove right now to try to come up with such an agr eement between him and the Village as to how this is going to be done. He said that also has to be worked out with the homeowners. He said at this point it is safe to say the berms will not be required anymore so they can be removed. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if they were working with the developer. Howard agreed. Commissioner Kachel said someone said the drain were up to high to make use of the drain itself. He asked how they were going to resolve that. Howard Hamilton said there were some rear yard grades that were not brought to grade. He said they added flared end sections which is a pipe to get the water into the drain from the field. He said when this project is complete there will not be water from the field coming to those drains anymore. He said you will not need the pipe anymore. Commissioner Kachel asked if this will take care of it. He said he was not trying to make the developer do it but he asked about the water detention we were going to have there and the possible when we had probl ems with it, maybe it should have been a bit lower to take care of problems we have. Howard Hamilton said that is not an issue in this. He said village code required those pipes to be greatly oversized and just the way the water comes off the field it doesn’t come to the locations it was predicted it would come. He said it is a combination of several difficult situations and the berms are addressing it. Chairman Sobkoviak opened the meeting to public comments. Steve Pherson, Walkers Grove resident, s aid he sees it as two fold, one is we are going to cure the problem of the runoff onto our property and he had some questions about the cure and once it is cured how they were going to fix the state of their lawns. He said the pond, from the back end of t he lot on the homes on the southern edge of your development to the back end of our lots on the northern end of Walkers Grove. He said he understands the pond is greatly skewed towards our property lines. He asked if it was possible to shift the pond nor th a little bit to make it equal
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 7 distance or is it going to be right against our property line and give them lots of space behind their house and all that water coming up to our. Chuck Hulse said we looked at how far away we could and with swaling on the property then a slight rise and then the ponds, the normal water level will be 50 feet plus or minus from the property line at high stage of that lake you are going to be 30 feet from that property line. Steve Pherson said it will be 50 feet from my pro perty line and the southern row of houses on the Tuttle Farm how many feet will they have to the normal water line. Chuck Hulse said this grade is substantially higher so there is more or a grade down to the water line. He said the water line may be furt her away but this is still a slope getting down to it. He said we are looking at one of the recommendations was to widen the right -of -way which would push this whole plan 6 feet further south. Steve Pherson asked if the bank of the pond is a gradual ban k to allow for extra volume so the pond will not overflow onto our property. Chuck Hulse said the overflow route will be back over to Meadow Lane. Steve Pherson said great we got our problem fixed but we all moved into new homes, he did is walk through last July and he has a mound of dirt almost as high as this table running like a spine through my back yard. He said that will not be needed any longer. He said it is a lot of money for us as individual homeowners to want a flat lawn that doesn’t have st anding water, which it does now. He wanted to know who is taking responsibility for coming in … this in our lawn, we want to put down grass but it will cost thousands of dollars to get it removed. He said the rest of our lots may need to be graded as wel l just to make it so we can put up some fence, play ball with our kids, have a nice back yard. He said he is not here to contest these plans but he wants someone to step up and take responsibility and give us an idea how this is going to play out and who is going to step up to the plate on this. Howard Hamilton said his answer to that is we are working with the developer of your project to see who can do that. He said at this point we do not even know when this project is going to be built. He said we d o not know what time frame we are working on. Steve Pherson said that is our answer we don’t know. Howard Hamilton said that is the answer today, this is not a final plat, and it is a preliminary plat of subdivision. He said this could be months or ye ars from being built. He said until we know from the applicant when they are going to be working on these yards and when this is going to be completed we cannot tell you what is going to be done or who is going to be here to do it. Steve Pherson asked if the Plan Commission approved this tonight it will be sent to the board correct? Howard Hamilton said as a preliminary plat yes. Steve Pherson said there is a board meeting in May so if this gets heard by the board and the board says OK we take your recommendation approved. He asked if that was it and then they would start digging holes.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 8 Howard Hamilton said no there are more steps. He said he did not know what their units would be but they were probably looking at 2 or 3 unit subdivision and they will prepare final engineering for one of those units and then will go through the same process again and then that one unit will be constructed. He said that unit may not be adjacent to your lots. Steve Pherson asked if they would do the ponds first. Chuck Hulse said he believed the earthwork is done all at once. Steve Pherson asked if you lived in a perfect world would you start digging these ponds before winter. John Philipchuck said part of our problem here is that we have to get water to the Tuttle Farm and that has to come out of the high pressure zone so it either comes from the tank at 119 th Street at Van Dyke Road and try to get easements from all the property owners along 127 th Street has not been successful yet or the water has to come f rom Grande Park. He said if that gets approved they will be putting a new well and storage tank there so they could feed from the west back east. He said one of those two things has to happen before we turn any dirt. He said chances of it happening this year are pretty slim. Commissioner Seggebruch asked how the overflow gets to Meadow. He said it was mentioned in staff’s report about lots 94 and 95 being eliminated. He said it seems that is where the overflow would be. He asked how you get an overla nd flow through there if you have lots right to the property line. Chuck Hulse said it is similar to a lot of different areas throughout the subdivision development that the overland flow go between the lots. He said even in Walkers Grove you have an ov erland flow. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if you create a swale? Chuck Hulse said yes. He said it is an easement that covers that. Commissioner Seggebruch said an easement but it is not dedicated parcel. Commissioner Kachel said this is taking longer, is the Village working to resolve some of these problems. He said the fact of the matter is to wait two years for development. Chairman Sobkoviak said you cannot take the berms out until the drainage is handled. Commissioner Kachel said he did not know wh at was being done, He asked if some of those were going to be reworked or do some things differently. Howard Hamilton said there are no plans for that right now. He said looking at it there are probably some things that we could adjust in there, maybe the berm is a little higher in places but the minute you say you have a foot lower here or foot taller and you start fiddling with things, then you have a problem. Commissioner Kachel said because of the comments from the people, the berm is where, the fact of the matter is they have standing water in some of those areas.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 9 Chairman Sobkoviak said the berm does two things, it keeps water on one side out and water on the other side in. Commissioner Kachel said there is not much we can resolve this qu estions is going to keep coming up all the way through and if we can’t do anything until this subdivision goes that is one thing but if there are things we can do to help to solve some of it. Ken Blaauw said Public Works has been trying to help several pr operty owners. He said we have been working with them to lessen the impact. He said he was in contact with Mr. Pherson this spring and they tried to move some of the standing water that was behind the north of his property line on the field. He said he did not know how successful they were at doing that. He said Public Works is trying to maintain the area and make it usable for the residents. He said on the field side, outside of their properties, they try to keep the standing water to a minimum and we try to keep everything graded so when the runoff because the runoff basically comes off the field and creates ruts in the ground as the water goes to the drains. He said we try to minimize the ruts in the area and try to keep the ground level so they can use the area somewhat. He said that is about all they can do at this point until that property develops. Commissioner Kachel asked if there was no other area to capture the water and take it underground to take it away like a tile or something. Ken B laauw said that is private property, it is owned either by the developer or it is under contract to them. He said we are really on someone else’s property trying to minimize the impact. Rich DuSatko, 13103 Meadow Lane, said he lives in the lot that is the far southeastern part of Meadow Lane on the east side of Meadow Lane so he is adjacent to the smaller pond there. He said his lot is more unique compared to the houses along Sunderlin in that he is facing west and there are only … before the Tuttle Fa rm starts. He asked if we could give him an estimation of how far the most southern part of the lake would be from his property. He said he wanted to be sure it is pitches far enough away. Chuck Hulse said you have a similar situation that the water lin e will be 50 feet away from that property line. He said there will be more berming along there now to get the runoff at the corner of your house. He said that will all be directed into the street to the west. Rich DuSatko asked if it would be pitched down towards the detention pond. Chuck Hulse said from the south to north Tammy Daughtery said they have a berm in their back yard. She said you mentioned a swale, are you talking just south of Sohol and Tuttle Farm property or north of our property. Chuck Hulse said north of your property. Tammy Daughtery asked the depth of the pond that it will not overflow at all into our yards. Chuck Hulse said it will be designed to overflow to the east rather than to the south. David King asked if any of that water go east onto the farm that is adjacent to that piece.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 10 Chuck Hulse said right now the way this farm works there is quite a wind row along this east property so most of this water shed just heads south so there is nothing going east. He said the prop osed condition, we have storm sewer along that property line so that will not run off to the east. Jim Kirer, Natures Crossing resident, said the detention ponds are going to be 50 feet off our property, how far from the other property are they going to b e. He asked if they will be equal distance will they also be 50 feet off those or are they going to be more skewed towards our property than towards the other. Chuck Hulse said this plan is pretty much schematically … preliminary engineering. He said t he final engineering is where they will actually set the grades along this end. He said we were able to work out that the normal water line will be 50 feet from the property line. Jim Kirer said and on the north side. Chuck Hulse said depending on the grade, there is no telling how close that will end up. He said this grade goes up substantially here and these lots will be a lot higher than you are and so the grade down to the water line might be more than 50 feet. Jim Kirer said he heard you were wo rking with the developer from Walkers Grove but did not hear you were working with the developer of Natures Crossing. He said we have a different type scenario, where they have berms we have large swales in our backyards. He said we have rather large c revices going in, water flows into our backyards and then to the storm sewers. He said last Sunday was not a very heavy rain and he had … standing water in my backyard. He said it is a case where they need to have their berms kind of knocked down, I need to have something to fill that in to somewhat push it towards these. He asked if you are also working with Natures Crossing developer. Howard Hamilton said he would take a look at that. He said the problem is that something was essentially changed when … moved in. He said your ditch was part of the original design so that is consistent with the way that site was. He said we can take a look at that, I can ask Roakes firm to take a look to see if those ditches will still need to remain but. Someone ask ed who the primary responsibility fall on, would it fall on the homeowner, would it fall on the Village or will it fall on the either of the two developers, the new developer or the old developers. John Philipchuck said it sounds like yours is designed to accommodate the water moving towards the West Norman Drain. He said yours is a swale for a reason. He said the west end of ours, the west pond that water; we should be able to help your condition because you are getting sheet flow from the farm now. He said when we put in the detention pond we will retain the water and then we are getting an easement north of your property on the Sohol property and we are going to pipe the discharge from the detention facility will not go over ground. He said it will g o discharge in the pipe over to the West Norman Drain. He said yours is designed with a swale now and that sounds like that is the way it is suppose to be and that is the way it will remain cause it takes the water overland and takes it down to the West N orman Drain. He said you are taking on sheet flows that are unrestricted and the ground gets saturated and it is like it was all concrete or asphalt and it just lets out there is nothing there to hold it back. He said once we get developed conditions we have facilities there to hold the water so you do not get that surge. He said there is a restrictor pipe that releases the water from the detention facilities over a longer term of time. He
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 11 said the emergency overflow that they are talking about is if the ’96 comes up, the pipe is not going to take it and it goes over the top and they design where it goes when it goes over the top. He said he thought your condition would be improved also because with the design in providing the detention there is none now . Someone said you say a lot of this is preliminary. He asked how much of this could possible change in the reference to the water flow between now and when it is actually gets …. He asked is there a margin for a lot of change or margin for a small amou nt of change. Chuck Hulse said the nature of the open space is pretty nailed down. He said the geometry of the roads and the geometry of the lots will stay the same. Someone asked and the geometry of the ponds. Chuck Hulse said that could change with t he final grading with the actual slopes and storage volume we need. John Philipchuck said final engineering will dictate the actual depth, width, contour lines to see how they wiggle. He said they may not wiggle exactly that way but they are concentratin g on getting storage volumes within that area. Tammy Daughtery asked from our lot in Walkers Grove, what will be the approximate height between our lots and will be have any slope down to the pond. Chuck Hulse said they were looking to maintain the swa le just north of your property line and then a slight rise of a couple feet and then going down to the water line. John Philipchuck said the swale will be on our property line. Chuck Hulse said the difference between your back property line and the r ise may only be a couple feet. Tammy Daughtery said so it is going to actually rise and then it will go down to the pond. She asked when you say it will go down to the pond how much distance on the normal level would that pond be. Chairman Sobkoviak sai d he thought she wanted to know the distance from the normal water line to the top of your swale. Chuck Hulse said about 5 -1/2 feet. Brad Klett, neighbor to Tammy, said one of their concerns is the final grade in their backyard is 653 and the high water level is 652. He said that puts the high water level what you are actually saying is you are putting the swale on your property and increase that a couple feet. Chuck Hulse said and then it will go down. Tammy Daughtery asked how deep this will be. Chu ck Hulse said it is just a foot and a half.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 12 Bill Vanoskey said so the water line is going to be about 5 -1/2 feet from the top of the swale on down to where the water starts. Chuck Hulse said to the top of the berm. Bill Vanoskey said so this is about 50 feet from the back of our property line on up. He asked regarding Steve’s circumstances with the Village and the berms in the yard, what if this doesn’t … are they going to have a berm in their yard for the rest of their life. Chairman Sobkoviak said it sounds like they need it to keep the surface water from flowing in. Bill Vanoskey said put it was put in after the house was built and the house was approved with the wrong grading. He said these people shouldn’t be responsible and take up half of you r yard because the some grading was completely wrong. He said he doesn’t have a berm in his yard, but he is on Walkers Grove Board and is concerned for his neighbors down the street. He said something should be done with the Village to get that berm take n off even immediately to put it on the other side. He said they are not using their property there, they do not plant grass or corn right up to that part. He asked if they could move it on the other side. Chairman Sobkoviak said he could not answer tha t question. Ken Blaauw said the farmer has actually graciously not planted up to their property line to allow an open space area. He said there was corn in that field last year. He said whether to say what they are going to plant this year, he said it i s too early to tell, the farmers have not begun planting. Someone said they had 10 to 15 feet of court and the rest was beets on the other side. He said they put the corn barrier up just to protect their crop. Ken Blaauw said will that take place this year – probably. He said from what the developer said tonight they do not have current plans for the development so if farmers have open ground they will plant it. Someone said there is about 20 feet between the property line and where they plant it. He asked if we couldn’t make some arrangements to move it to the other side of the property line so they have get their life together instead of waiting 2, 3, 4 or 5 years down the line. Ken Blaauw said he did not think they could provide enough storage i n that 20 feet to capture enough water to be able to alleviate the problem. Someone said will it stay on the other side of the berm in the corn. He said you have the drains on this side for anything else that would run onto the property. Ken Blaauw sa id we cannot do that to the farmer. He said his property is tributary or Walkers Grove is tributary to his field, his field is actually higher than Walkers Grove subdivision. He said we can’t simply put him out. Chairman Sobkoviak said it sounds like th e Village has been out there and is working on it. Someone said our lots are graded all wrong. He said someone and it is probably our developer, the plans were approved and the grading in our lots should not have been approved because it doesn’t work. H e said we are paying the price. He said we have a berm running like a spine
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 13 down the middle of our yard. He asked if there was any way to shift the whole berm back to the beginning at the rear end of our property line and have an opening next to the stor m drain so the berm is on their property line but someone came on our property and berm without asking us. Someone said do something now for Walkers Grove. Ken Blaauw asked John Philipchuck if Wiseman Hughes was in control of the property now. John P hilipchuck said no. Ken Blaauw said the Tuttle farm is owned there are multiple owners of the property, it is some kind of an estate. He said as least one of the property owners lives out of state and they are not very in tune to the current situation. He said to amend the agreement we have with them may not be possible. He said it was very painstaking for Gordon Fry to get the agreement he got. He said that did not happen overnight. He thought it took 90 days if not 120 or 150 days to get that agreem ent in place just to allow us to put the berms in place. Someone asked why we had to get an agreement from them to put berms on our property. Ken Blaauw said we had to go on their property to put the berms. John Philipchuck said Ken is right there a re two estates. Someone said he imagined if they are selling the property you had to have some kind of contact with them. Chairman Sobkoviak said the answer for the time being will be the Village and the Village engineer are working to alleviate this pro blem. He said we need to move forward with this matter. He said the questions before us are preliminary plat and annexation and zoning. He said in your packet there are a couple letters. He asked John is he was in substantial agreement with the Fire Di strict letter. He said there are other letters from homeowners and involves a petition and also request to work on the temporary berm. Commissioner Kachel said unfortunately with the temporary berm there is not much we can do. Chairman Sobkoviak said ac tually the Plan Commission has no jurisdiction in the matter whatsoever. He said we can let people talk about it but in essence we have no jurisdiction whatsoever. He said the Village and Public Works Department have entered the situation and combined wi th the Village engineer, that is where the solution will have to come from. He said Staff’s recommendation is for approval subject to compliance with the requirements of the Village engineer, compliance with the requirements of the Fire Protection Distric t, a 10 foot utility easement to be provided on each side of Meadow Lane, no assess at the easements provided on the lot lines adjacent to Meadow Lane, one stipulation about the bike trail, and another stipulation regarding B Street. He asked the applican t if they had any problem with these stipulations, John Philipchuck said no sir. Chairman Sobkoviak asked the Commissioners if they had any questions or concerns that they need to discuss with the petitioner or Village engineer.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 14 Commissioner Kachel s aid the only comment he had is under Comments when we talked about removing 211 -215 and you mentioned we have got other adjacent lots behind them we said we would just leave it alone. He said this comment if not how should park access, visual clutter, etc . be addressed? He asked what we are talking about. Chairman Sobkoviak said he thought we discussed that concept stage and he believed there was substantial agreement at that time to leave those five lots in there. Commissioner Kachel said right but if not how should park access? He said the lots are left in and it is the next statement after that. John Philipchuck said the plan is that there would be access to the park through the gas pipeline to the east side and the west side there will actually be a driveway access on the Sohol piece for the parking lot. Commissioner Kachel said visual clutter. John Philipchuck said probably swing sets or something like that. Someone said that is correct. Chairman Sobkoviak said staff has posed 4 questions to us : does the Plan Commission feel the subject property is a logical extension of the village boundaries and do we support the proposed zoning request? He said does the Plan Commission support the proposed lot sizes and lot widths, is 28 foot street widths i n 60 feet of right of way acceptable and the questions regarding removing lots 211 through 215. Commissioner Kachel said one of the statements in here are 28 foot street widths in 60 foot right of way acceptable for this particular one but that is not in the general statement. Commissioner Seggebruch said you have 3 different pavement widths Howard Hamilton said Meadow is a 37 back to back street within a 66 foot right of way, village code on that is 80 foot right of way but then again this matches what was built in Walkers Grove and just approved in Chaplin Farm. He said all the other streets except for the east west are 25 pavement 28 foot back to back within a 60 -foot right of way. He said the village minimum for that is 31 feet back to back 28 feet o f pavement within a 66 -foot right of way. He said the traffic committee has supported narrower streets for traffic calming purposes. He said the east west street – we recommend that becoming a standard village minor street coming in at 31 feet back to ba ck and 66 -foot right of way. The developers agreed to that. Commissioner Gehrke asked the lot sizes. John Philipchuck said he thought the minimum was 10,000 and the average is over 12,000. Commissioner Gehrke asked what is the setback. John Philipchuc k said along Meadow we are doing the increased setback that was mentioned earlier he believed 40 otherwise it is 30.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 15 Chairman Sobkoviak asked how many lots are in the 10,000 square foot category. He said he did not need a specific number. John Philipchuc k explained where the 10,000 were, the 11,000’s, 13,000’s, 14,000’s and 16,000’s. He said some are next to open space and could appear bigger with planting into the open space. He said you can look at it and say the average is over 12,000. Chairman So bkoviak said some are 19,000. Commissioner Gehrke asked the minimum lot width. She said it says you are short of the 85’. John Philipchuck said he thought the minimum is 80 feet. Commissioner Gehrke said she had one more question, everyone is talking about the water going on the people to the south, she asked what about the farmers to the north. She asked if you are shutting off their water, tile drainage or what. John Philipchuck said typically what we do is locate the field tile that comes into th e property, and we have to pick up where that tile is and tie it into our stormwater system. He said the water that leaves the site will leave where it leaves today. He said to the north there is that small area that Chuck showed on the ridges where the drainage goes so there is an area and that is why that one lake is up here. He said as you know once it gets out at 127 th right of way then it moves downhill to the West Norman Drain. Commissioner Gehrke asked if they were going to close any of them off. John Philipchuck said no we have to pick them up. Commissioner Seggebruch said the 10 -foot bike path on the south side of 127 th is that going to be placed in an easement. John Philipchuck said in the right of way. He said it is going to 100 -foot rig ht of way so we have room to put bike paths in the right of way. Commissioner Seggebruch said he missed the meeting with the discussion of the lots around the park, certainly the idea of having that open access to that park or street would be nice visuall y but if those lots are there. He said what really bothered him was lots 94 and 95 at the south end especially if there is an overflow going through there. He said to him those are not desirable lots. He said he could not imagine anyone wanting to buy t hose and the other thing with the pond stretched across the south end it would provide a little bit of visual relief and break between the two developments. He said the gazebo that are being put in by ponds would be nice kind of like a transition into the development. He said he thought lots 94 and 95 take away from the development. John Philipchuck said those are almost 13,000 square feet and that is only the emergency overflow. Commissioner Seggebruch said he knows they are big and he has one right ne xt to the lot he owns and it is one thing … and he did not think it was desirable. Commissioner Kachel asked from an engineering standpoint, what is your feeling on that?
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 16 Howard Hamilton said he can enlighten you a little bit, he said he knows where you l ive, put your emergency overflow goes the other direction, yours brings the 100 year storm or the 1% storm into the pond. He said this takes water that is greater than the 100 -year storm and lets it go out. He said we are not looking at concrete. He sai d know on wood we should never see it used. He said it is not going to be that obvious, it will be a graded area and will not have a concrete channel. Commissioner Kachel said if something that happens, if you build on lots like that is there some way o f putting more protection to the homes to the people if they have basements over and above what you would in the rest of the development. He said if it did occur it could be taken care of. Chuck Hulse said we typically design those sideyard swales to fig ure the maximum depth that the swale could get and then the top of foundation or lowest opening of that house would be 2 feet above that. Commissioner Kachel asked if there was anything with additional sumps or anything like that. Answer no. John Philip chuck said this is just a channel for the emergency overflow. Commissioner Seggebruch said that is one aspect of it the drainage but the visual transition between the developments. He said it is one thing when you have a stub street with kind of standard size lots proceeding along that street but to go form one development into another you do not see a transition but here you have this kind of green space set up all the way across at the south end and two lots stuck out there all by their selves. He said he did not think they were necessary. John Philipchuck said there was an earlier version and at that time the Park District wasn’t envisioning this regional facility and we were going to do something with bike trails to connect the lakes but then they st arted to focus their efforts when the Sohol piece came in to do something much bigger for the community so they had us redirect our efforts more to that end and we lost some lots up there an so we made up for them by redesigning down in the south end to en hance the park facility up in the north end. He said this will invite people from a greater area to use this facility and that is why the emphasis on the entrance here is 127 th Street. He said the main parking lot is there and that is why it is all open . He said this is regional community park as opposed to a neighborhood park. Commissioner Kachel said as far as maintenance and care sometimes the smaller parks are harder to take care of. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there was additional discussion. Co mmissioner Kachel made a motion to recommend annexation with R -1zoning along with approval of the preliminary plat subject to the six stipulations as noted. Commissioner Gehrke seconded the motion Chairman Sobkoviak asked to amend the motion and second t o agree with the four points asked by staff that the Plan Commission feels it is a logical extension of the Village boundaries and we support the zoning request, and that the Plan Commission supports the proposed lot sizes and lot widths, that the Plan Com mission supports the 28 foot street widths in a 60 -foot right of way and we do not support the removing of lots 211 -215.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 17 Both agreed. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel; Seggebruch; Gehrke; Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 4 -0 Motion carried. Chairman Sobkovia k stated this would go forward to the Village Board and to keep in touch with Staff. CASE NO: 851 -010800RES/SU/SPR VINTAGE HARVEST COMMERCIAL Planner Garrigan said Planner Carroll has requested us not to set a specific date regarding continuing this case. Howard Hamilton said we will need to republish and go through the whole process again as they have been unable to develop the final plans for the project. Chairman Sobkoviak said this case will be continued to a later date and it will be republished. Someone asked if they would receive a letter again. Planner Garrigan said there will be a sign posted on the property and legal notice in the newspaper. He said as to receiving correspondence, he was not aware of Staff. Chairman Sobkoviak said adjacent property owners are usually notified by certified mail. Planner Garrigan agreed. Chairman Sobkoviak said if you received notification last time you should again this time. CASE NO: 853 -011701.A/Z SINGLETARY Planner Garrigan said Planner Carroll has req uested no set date for this case as well. He said this case will be republished at a later date and adjacent property owners will be notified. CASE NO: 859 -022301.AA/Z U.S. FILTER Chairman Sobkoviak said the applicant has requested this case be continued to May 1, 2001. Commissioner Kachel made a motion recommending we continue case no. 859 -022301.AA/Z until May 1, 2001. Commissioner Gehrke seconded the motion. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel; Seggebruch, Gehrke, Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 4 -0 Motion car ried. Chairman Sobkoviak said this case would be continued until May 1, 2001. CASE NO: 863 -030901.SU/PP PLAINFIELD COMMONS Planner Garrigan said this is a request for special use for a PUD and a preliminary plat. He said the location of the applicant’s property is southwest corner of Division and 135 th Street. He said the property is just southwest of the Amoco station on Rt. 59, Eagle Chase Subdivision is to the
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 18 west and 135 th Street is to the north. He said the current zoning is B -3. He said the ap plicant is requesting a special use permit for a PUD to develop an 8 -acre parcel with various retail commercial uses. He said the outlots will be reviewed by the Plan Commission at the time of development. He said we specifically are not reviewing the sp ecific sites for each parcel or lot. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if we can expect site plan review on each individual piece. Planner Garrigan said with regard to the three standards that are required by Village ordinance, the first standard is the establi shment, maintenance or operation of the special use will not be detrimental or endanger the public health, safety and general welfare. He said Staff has had an opportunity to review this site plan with respect to special use and Staff feels the applicant has met this requirement. The second standard is the special use will not be injurious to the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate area for the purposes already permitted, nor substantially diminish and impair property values within the ne ighborhood. He said the uses proposed are all already permitted and the Jewel to the north is commercial and the Amoco is commercial. He said Staff has had an opportunity to review that and finds it is consistent with that standard. He said the third st andard is establishment of the special use will not impede the normal and orderly development and improvement of adjacent property. He said Staff has had a chance to review that and it does not appear it will impede development or improvement adjacent pro perty. He said with respect to the preliminary plat and conceptual site plan, as part of the PUD process the applicant is required to apply for preliminary plat and subdivide the land or site design layout. He said this proposed site plan has five differ ent lots. He said those uses are a car wash, auto retail, grocery store, general retail mall and specific use for lot 5 has not been identified by the applicant. He said regarding the parking and drive areas, Staff has had an opportunity to review the wh ole site plan. He said access to the site will be one full access from Rt. 59 and one full access off 135 th Street. He said both entrances as submitted line up with the existing proposed entrances for other property on the eastern side of Division and no rth side of 135 th . He said regarding parking, Staff has had an opportunity to review parking, it appears that parking meets all the requirements via Village Ordinance. He said regarding architecture, the goal of the planning development is to coordinate the character in accordance with the site plan review ordinance applicant must show the proposed structure be 25% masonry. He said we are not approving the specific site or architectural elevations tonight. He said regarding landscaping the annexation ag reement requires landscaping along the westerly and southerly boundaries to meet village requirements. He said in view of the fact the property adjacent to a residential subdivision there is a requirement that a 20 -foot landscaping buffer be incorporated in the site plan. He said the buffer has to be 75% opacity and at least 6 foot high. He said there is a concern by staff that sufficient buffer be incorporated to protect the residential areas to the west. He said a uniform landscape plan has been submi tted by the applicant for the entire site and Staff has had an opportunity to review that. He said there is some concern on staff’s part with respect to the overhead doors and stacked cars for the car wash need to be screened with more extensive screening that is currently proposed. He said regards to the uniform landscaping plan submitted by the applicants; evergreens have been incorporated strategically throughout the landscape buffer. He said Staff has concerns that there should be some additional eve rgreen or landscape plantings in this particular area. He said exterior lighting, staff has had an opportunity to review that and it appears the exterior lighting meets all standard requirements of the Village. He said with respect to signage, the applic ants submitted for 2 ground signs. He said Staff is concerned that the request for these signs does not conform with the sign ordinance of the village in regards to size and square footage. He said it appears the request meets the requirements of grantin g a special use for a PUD. He said Staff feels it appropriate that public comment be invited. He said there is some concern that the application meets the merits of a special use permit. He asked if the general site plan and character acceptable with re spect to architecture, landscaping, signage
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 19 and access. He said pursuant to Staff’s report, Staff recommends approval of a special use permit and preliminary plat with stipulations as enumerated in Staff’s report. Peter Vargulich, applicant and principa l planner for Edwards & Kelsey, said he thought overall they were in concurrence with Staff’s findings. He said most of it has been reasonable. Chairman Sobkoviak asked why they are seeking PUD regulations as opposed to just developing it? Peter Varguli ch said the approach they are asking for the use of an auto service retail requires a special use process. Chairman Sobkoviak asked what he meant by the auto service retail? Peter Vargulich said it relates to the car wash and the lube center or oil cha nge center combined in one building. He said he have submitted elevations. He said the retailer on Lot 3 is probably somebody geared at various types of servicing whether it is brakes, mufflers, tune ups and those kind of things that would compliment som e of the services not probably be addressed in the greater commercial uses to the north and across the street to the east with Meijers and with respect to the service station on the corner. Commissioner Kachel asked to see the color renderings. Chairman Sobkoviak said we do not want to get into site plan tonight. Peter Vargulich said some of the specific users that will be coming forward in final are Aldi on Lot 1. He explained the masonry content exceeds the ordinance requirements. He said they are no t asking for variances in setbacks, masonry content, lighting standards or landscaping requirements. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the interior streets would be private streets. Peter Vargulich said in the final plating process, the private street is reall y the street that comes from 135 th and comes back Rt. 59 and connects with the existing perimeter driveway of the BP Amoco site so they share cross access easements. He said there will be cross access easements for all the lots with a shared maintenance a greement between the lot owners. He said this driveway connecting from 135 th Street to Rt. 59 by not looping around the back reduced the opportunity or encouragement of people heading eastbound on 135 th to kind of cut the corner by making them stay on the driveway. Chairman Sobkoviak asked Howard if he had any comments especially on the two entrances to this parcel from 135 th . Howard Hamilton said his understanding on this is the Amoco full entrance on Rt. 59 would go to right in right out when the ful l access was constructed. He said the next entrance is a full entrance down on the south side. He said that was agreed to in a meeting with IDOT about a year ago with the Meijer Store. He said the spacing was 850 feet from the center line of 135 th Str eet, required spacing in this area is a quarter mile so we are about 400 feet to close but that is the best we could do. He said unfortunately in the last few weeks, Meijer has been informed by IDOT that they need to move their entrance so as not to line it up and we are working with their
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 20 engineer and IDOT to get entrance moved back up so the entrances line up. He said this applicant does not have an option. He said we want to full access two directions. Chairman Sobkoviak said he was looking at the tw o accesses on 135 th . Howard Hamilton said that is consistent with what we have with Jewel across the street. He said the other issue is the pond will be expanded with this project also Peter Vargulich said that has been done. Chairman Sobkoviak asked i f the commissioners had any immediate questions. Commissioner Seggebruch said you said it has been done on the plan. Howard Hamilton said no it has been physically done. He said this is preliminary at this point so I do not have the final calculations . Commissioner Seggebruch asked who that was done by. Howard Hamilton said it was done by Amoco. Peter Vargulich said it was part of the agreement of Amoco and the developers of Eagle Chase and they did it for Amoco when they purchased the property as a whole. Chairman Sobkoviak opened the meeting for public comments. John Weiffenbach asked said there seems to be a whole lot thrown in here with not a whole lot of detail. He asked how much of this is set in concrete and how much are we going to come back and revisit with things like the back of the ALDI store with the actual elevations of the plans, to see what people are actually going to be looking at, when you talk about lighting – are you talking about low profile directed lighting that is only go ing to hit this property. Peter Vargulich said regarding elevations and landscaping. He said they submitted the overall landscaping plan, staff has commented on that. He said we have met the foundation requirements for each building but specifically for the ALDI, we have foundation plantings everywhere except for the truck dock and the entrance into the building. He said this plan was submitted with our overall site plan and preliminary engineering. He said we are addressing specifically the ALDI store and elevation west facing existing residential across the pond. He said we have provided buffer all along the southern and western portion of the property. He explained the landscaping and indicated they have supplied over the 75% screening that is requ ired and we have been recommended by Staff to enhance that further. He said the screening is all evergreen trees. Chairman Sobkoviak said they will be 75% opacity at 6 feet high when you plant them and you can expect them to grow. Peter Vargulich explai ned the type of plantings. He said they focused some of the landscaping screening along these access drives understanding that as people maneuver through the property that headlights in the evening. He said if we enhance further we can fill in even furth er. He said all the lots will use the same fixture. He said a photometric plan was done for all the lots except Lot 5. He said explained the lighting. He explained the masonry as unit masonry, either architectural block or face brick. He said with res pect to screening all the roof top equipment has
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 21 either individual screens or the building has been raised to screen over the mechanicals 360 degrees not just from the streets. Chairman Sobkoviak added that as each parcel is built we will have a site plan review on each and every parcel. John Weiffenbach asked about the hours of operation for the car wash and retail auto. Peter Vargulich said as far as lot 3 the auto retail, he could not really tell us the hours of operation but they would be consistent with any typical retailer that would do that. He said maybe 8 in the morning to 5 or 6 in the evening. He said they may have extended hours based on customer requirement. He said with respect to the car wash, the hours typical. He said we would come ba ck with the hours of operation. John Weiffenbach asked 5 or 6 in the evening not 8, 9 or 10 in the evening. Peter Vargulich said these things would be addressed when they come back for site plan review. John Weiffenbach asked about the noise would be over 5 feet to the nearest residential property. He said this brings the auto noise even without the hydraulics of the auto wash 300 feet closer to properties in fact he would guess within a couple hundred feet of the nearest residential property. He sai d it looks like the drive is right up against the residential property. Peter Vargulich said the doors for the car wash are facing north and south they are not facing west. He said the doors are not pointed at the adjacent residents. He said from a site plan standpoint they have made every effort to direct those sorts of negative impacts away from residential. He said as far as the ALDI the loading dock is facing east. He said the dock will help to reflect the noise back into the site not away. He exp lained the dock and said the truck will be 4 feet lower. He said in the case of the auto service said the doors are facing 59 so none of the doors there will face north or south. John Weiffenbach said the car wash at Rt. 30 and somebody comes in and u ses the automatic one that you do not need an attendant for any time day or night and you can hear the noise from the unit at Whitey’s Hot Dogs. He said if he was the person living in that house closest would be concerned with something higher and denser between me and that facility to try and further buffer that noise. He asked what could be done to improve that situation. Peter Vargulich said they could look at some other alternatives such as landscaping or berming and things like that. He said from an operational standpoint some of it may be related to a concern of the hours of operation. He said the actual developer will address those. Commissioner Seggebruch said he was going to make a suggestion speaking from experience, he is directly across t he street from where the Jewel store is being developed. He said we dealt with a lot of these same issues. He said you talked about the developer increasing the pond. He asked where the property line was. Peter Vargulich so indicated. Commissioner S eggebruch said the east bank of the pond is totally owned by the development.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 22 Peter Vargulich said it is owned by the homeowners association. He said the entire pond is owned by the homeowners association. He said this property has drainage rights and t hen there is a fee paid by this development to them for the convenience. He explained the old line on the plat and the expansion of the pond. Teresa McKinney, directly behind the existing Amoco, did not realize there would be anything between her and the gas station. She said she wanted a berm and thought it would be built prior to any construction. She said she doesn’t want it in her back yard. She said if it is handled properly it could be nice. She said this is going to be a detriment to her home and to the subdivision. She said she would like to see a berm go in immediately so they do not have to watch the construction, do not have to have shingles in the pond, debris from paper coming across. She said she has small children. She said she wants to fee she is in a neighborhood. She said her biggest concern is they are separated. She didn’t feel a third grocery store was necessary. She is concerned with the car wash, and asked if it was self serve or full serve. Peter Vargulich said strictly f ull serve. He indicated how a car would come in, be washed and indicated where it could be pulled around for additional detailing or special services. He indicated where the stacking would take place. Teresa McKinney said she can hear the beeping now fr om the gas tanks at Amoco. She thought a berm would take care of the visual. She understands she will not be able to get rid of all of it especially from her upstairs windows. She said a noise buffer. Peter Vargulich said a landscape architect will re view it. He said the physical issues with respect to creating one could be difficult because of having to maintain overland flows to the pond, problems with the property as well as just the logistics of the elevation of the driveway needs to be higher tha n 135 th . Chairman Sobkoviak said as a general rule nothing grows on a berm. He said it is gravity, the water just doesn’t stay in there. Commissioner Kachel said the other issue with a berm, when you have a pond on something that like is the fact that t he homeowners association is taking care of that side, it is a great sledding place for kids but if you have a pond right down there and it makes it more dangerous for a child on that end of it. He said the great big berms if you have a lot of land are gr eat but the small ones are more of a headache to you. He said proper planting of trees and the way they have they staggered may not be a benefit now but as it grows and matures you will get a nice row of trees in that area that will give you really probab ly better buffering than you would with a berm and less problems than you would with a berm. Teresa McKinney said probably down the road it will be nice. She said her husband gets transferred often. She feels this is a detriment to her property. She sa id they have refinanced their property and the appraisal references the proximity of the commercial to her house. She said she is 6 foot tall and 6 -foot trees are nothing from her upstairs windows. Commissioner Kachel said 6 foot is standard for height o f trees. Commission Seggebruch said there is nothing that will screen a second floor level. He said you can screen a ground floor.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 23 Commissioner Kachel asked if we could get a little bit taller trees to get a little bit more visual screening on something like this. He said unfortunately you have purchased a home there and developers are out there. He said that property was going to be commercial and anytime you buy next to commercial you are kind of at the whims of what happens into that area. He said screening is a concern of the Plan Commission but berms along 59 there are some that do not look to great. He said you have to be careful on that end of it and get good screening. Commissioner Seggebruch asked if their homeowners association had already been formed. Teresa McKinney said they lived in Naperville and some of the development there has berms in before they do the building. She said at 111 th they have a really nice berm next to the road and fence above it and plantings not trees but they h ave nice shrubs along that fence line. She said you can see the tops of the homes. She said when you are on the other side of that wall you feel like you are in a neighborhood. She said that is what she would like to see. Commissioner Kachel said up at 111 th Street if you look at the top there is a fence across it and across the street is the other development that is in Plainfield area. He said one of the considerations there is the cost of the homes and the developer in Naperville at that time did th at. He said that was a screening purpose on their part, that was the end of Naperville and some very exclusive homes that they wanted to put in there and to be able to sell the lots they put that in there. He said unfortunately when you get into other ar eas the developers only put in so much and there is only so much you can do because you do not have that big expansive area to put in a berm that large. He said that is a huge berm up there and it does look nice and it is great for the homeowners but it i s a very expensive berm and that has to be done way out front. Howard Hamilton said with the entrance drive actually already pushed farther east that he would like to see it and the pond right there you would have to reconfigure the pond and start pushing it west onto private property to do those berms. Teresa McKinney said she was stunned when she learned there was to be other development there. Commissioner Kachel said he sympathize with you but when you look at the open farm land and so many people mo ve out here for the open farm lands of Plainfield and they are gone. He said we like the farm and the look but it just isn't there. Commissioner Seggebruch said he lives directly north of you in Golden Meadows Subdivision and he was on the homeowners ass ociation when Jewel came in and that is when he started getting involved with the Plan Commission and he thought that is how he ended up on it. He said if you do not have a homeowners association it will be a little harder for you and your neighbors getti ng together and dealing with these kind of issues. He said he would make a suggestion to staff that they go back and talk to this developer, pull out the Jewel site plan. He said shielding the large truck docks at Jewel, you realize it is a much larger s tructure than you are talking about here, but we asked for 8 foot minimum pine trees instead of 6 feet. He said in other words we asked them to exceed the Village minimums and they are planted in very dense fashion and staggered in such a way that they re ally do provide very good screening both for sound and for vision. He said where ever there was a change lights would be directed, we also asked for a fence. He said he would suggest here where there is parking lined up all the way from that pond, they p rovide a fence and pine trees. He said from the pine trees down to the water the situation is a little different on the other side of the street, Jewel owns out into the pond. He said they own half of the pond and we own half of the pond but again the ho meowners association is going to
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 24 half to maintain that side of the pond. He said we asked from the line of pine trees down to the water be planted with prairie grass. He said the good thing about that is it keeps the geese away. He said it would eventua lly safe your homeowners association a lot of headaches on not having to maintain a bank on the other side of the pond up against that commercial. He said if you think about fencing where ever light could go through and think about 8 -foot pine trees. He said he mentioned an easement on the developer's property there at the north end that might be the place to talk about a berm. He said maybe there is room to do a 2 -foot berm. Peter Vargulich said they would look at that and there is also hydraulic is sues. Commissioner Kachel said one of the things with Jewel with the fence, didn’t we get landscaping on that side more so than on this side of it. Commissioner Seggebruch said the only place at Jewel that we ended up with a fence was at each end where t hey were worried about the drive through. Commissioner Kachel said if you try to put in fencing as well as plantings, in order for the trees to grow properly and to expand out, you might be limiting the tree growth to get a good screening at a later date. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if we need to specify a fence in the additional trees tonight? Response was no. Commissioner Kachel asked if the fence would work for it. Commissioner Seggebruch said Jewel gave up all parking they had facing the pond rather t han put in a fence. He said he assumed you would need all that parking that is shown along that perimeter. He said if you are then there are two ways to do it, either do a fence or increase to 100% opacity with pine trees so there is no change light can get through. Peter Vargulich said they feel comfortable increasing the landscaping. He said they can look at increasing it further to address your concerns and the neighbors concerns. He said with respect to fencing, most of the time fencing is typicall y a lose lose situation. He said if you leave it natural you have board and panels that break and end up with a checker board appearance and if you paint it you have the same issues. He said evergreen trees would really be a better solution in the short term and long term and you get away from a maintenance issue that is more a visual issue than it is for the commercial development. John Weiffenbach asked where would the snow go, would it be pushed into the pond. Peter Vargulich said he could not speak specifically for how whoever the snow removal contractor would do that. He said that is done on some commercial projects and the other thing that is done is to lose parking spaces. He said there is a cost of hauling and moving and that is offset against just losing some parking spaces temporarily in the winter. He said each lot has met or exceeded the parking requirements as designed now and that will be detailed and examined further. He said snow removal could in fact absorb some of those parking space s. He said we have also held the majority of the evergreens around the perimeter that are adjacent to roadways and parking off the pavement to provide a linear area along the back of the curb for snow storage rather than bringing the trees up close to t he pavement where they would be damaged.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 25 John Weiffenbach said the other guys have to maintain the pond through their homeowners association and it is not your property and either your landscaping easement is on their property. He said a restriction mi ght be that none of it goes off your property and all of it must be maintained on the interior of your property. Peter Vargulich said the project itself has drainage rights as well as uses rights for the ponds, which they have paid for via contract purc hase of the land. John Weiffenbach said drainage is normal flow like God put it there and made flow where you take a snow plow and push it God did not do that. He said he did not think that was participated in normal drainage. He said he thought that wa s pushing what was on your property and pushing in onto someone else. Peter Vargulich said we can explore that. Teresa McKinney asked about the bike path that comes across and ends. Peter Vargulich said it is provided that they will extend it and you c an cross and there will be a sidewalk that you can go out to 135 th or come to the south and cross. He said there is pedestrian circulation from this access point to get to all of these lots as well as from the south there is a walk that stubs to the south end of the property and that is going to be extended. Teresa McKinney said their house is immediately behind that bridge. Peter Vargulich said they would make it as small as they can but the intention of the subdivision was to extend that to provide p edestrian. Commissioner Kachel said that is part of the park trails. Janet …, resident of Eagle Chase, asked about the retail area and what was going in there. Peter Vargulich said it is a multi -tenant retail building. He showed the elevations for the building and explained it was a multi -tenant building so depending on how many people could be there you could have up to 10 stores but if a bigger user comes obviously that would be less. Janet … asked who was going to be in there. Peter Vargulich said he could not tell her for sure. Janet … asked who was going in Lot 5. Peter Vargulich said there was no contract on Lot 5. Janet … asked that we make sure that all the stipulations that are being put into effect that they understand and they have to co mply with them like the lighting etc. Peter Vargulich said staff has already recommended that. Teresa McKinney said you said everything up on top of the roof would be covered from all directions but it looks like that is a flat type of roof structure. She asked if they could get pitched roof and maybe shingles.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 26 Peter Vargulich said that would be a comment to the developer of that building, it is pretty typical for multi kinds of retail to have a flat roof as that is where the equipment is going to be and they have raised the parapet on the building to exceed the slope so the highest piece of equipment will not exceed the top of the parapet. Teresa McKinney said it would block some of the light that we will eventually get from Meijers across the str eet. Peter Vargulich said he would pass that along but most commercial property do not have pitched roofs. Chairman Sobkoviak asked for any additional comments. He asked the Commissioners if they had any questions of the staff, village engineer, or de veloper. Commissioner Kachel said he thought we should put a fourth item on here in relationship to the overall screening and for that particular area that we are talking about that we try to get as close to 100% visual screening as possible with natural vegetation and plants being planted in that area be a minimum of 8 feet to start with to the west and south. He said it might not be the fence and it might not be the berm but he did not think the developer could do too much more in that particular area b ecause if you put a fence in that is 50/50 they get to look pretty bad after awhile. Commissioner Seggebruch said you are saying lot 5 is not included. He said it is included in the PUD but it is not under contract. Peter Vargulich said we do not have the ability to show site plan because we do not have a purchaser for that lot only but it will comply with all … you are talking about. Chairman Sobkoviak said in the past we have had them come in with 13 lots but only one or two being developed. Commis sioner Seggebruch said the southern driveway it appears there is an existing fence line that is north of that driveway. He asked if they purchased additional property to put in the driveway. Peter Vargulich said no it was all part of the lot. He said th ere was a fence line that was done on this property when they thought it was their property. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if this application meets the merits of a special use permit and is the general site plan and character acceptable including architecture , landscaping and signage and access. He said the signage would be subject to the Village ordinances. He said landscaping is going to be subject to our site plan requirements. Peter Vargulich said with respect to the sign they submitted, a monument sign for lots 1, 2 and 3 be considered as part of this PUD and while it is somewhat different than having individual ground signs for each lot, they felt that the approach in combining them simplified the appearance on the street so instead of having 5 signs o n each street we will end up with one ground sign on 135 th and a maximum of 3 ground signs along Rt. 59. He said the monument sign would potentially have lots 4 and 5. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if these signs met our ordinance.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 27 Peter Vargulich said certa inly for lots 4 & 5 they will and also the wall signage would meet the ordinance. He said it is bigger than 50 square feet but the total square footage is less than if you had 3 individual signs. He said it is 140 square feet or a little bit less and 3 i ndividual signs would be 150. He said consolidation produces less signage on the street. Chairman Sobkoviak said the request will also allow a variance for this sign on 135 th. John Weiffenbach asked if they were making that request now. Commissioner Ka chel said we d have some variances across the street because of the size of that project and development so it is not one that is going to stand out completely out on it own because those are larger over in that area also. Chairman Sobkoviak said he wou ld say the size and shape of this sign meets the spirit of our ordinance. Planner Garrigan said he was not here for Meijers and asked if there was a specific … request. Commissioner Kachel said there was a question that came in with Meijers and with Jewe l also and the fact that if we put too small of a sign it would not look right since it was such a big building. Planner Garrigan said in the Jewel sign there was an incorporated under petitions for a specific variance request to exceed the signage. He s aid he did not think that was the case here. Howard Hamilton said we actually changed the ordinance. Commissioner Kachel said he thought the overall signs for the outside were increased also. He said the fact that this is on four corners, it is not some thing that is going to be standing out over and above other signage. Chairman Sobkoviak suggested we have a fifth stipulation to accept the sign presented in this drawing. Commissioner Kachel asked if Staff was comfortable with that. Planner Garrigan said he believed Mr. Carroll’s position was the proposed sign meet our sign ordinance, which would limit a retail development, ground sign to 10 feet and total of 120 square feet. He said their proposed development sign is 140 square feet which is 20 squa re feet over what our sign ordinance allows. Chairman Sobkoviak said but it would be still be less than if we took the combined square footage. Peter Vargulich said we are not proposing to exceed the maximum height allowed in the current ordinance, whi ch is 10 feet. He said we would stay under that but it is more just the idea of combining three signs to reduce the overall square footage by 10 square feet instead of three separate signs. Commissioner Kachel said for readability on this to have other n ames on this if you get them too small you cannot read them.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 28 Chairman Sobkoviak asked if we had agreement on that issue. Commissioner Seggebruch asked where the three places. Peter Vargulich said three lots but only two sign locations, one at Rt. 59 entr ance at the far south end and the furthest west entry. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there was any additional discussion on this project. Teresa McKinney said this sign at the furthest went entry will be right next to my property and if it was a lighted si gn. Peter Vargulich showed where the sign would be. He said the sign would be no taller than ordinance allows. He said it would be internally lite. He said it is more appropriate to show it here as this is the main entrance off 135 th Street. Teresa Mc Kinney asked if there was any way to make one entry and make it the lower entry and widen it so that traffic is diverted from close to our property. Peter Vargulich said it lines up with the Jewel across the street. Teresa McKinney asked why there had t o be two entries, could there be just one. Peter Vargulich said it is a circulation standpoint. Teresa McKinney said in other words you will have quite a bit of traffic flow on the back entry. Peter Vargulich said if you were coming into the site, you w ould come in that way also. He said anyone coming in from the west or east will use that entrance. Teresa McKinney said unless it wasn’t there. John Weiffenbach suggested a move for compromise and make the trees as high as the sign is going to be. C ommissioner Seggebruch asked Howard to clarify the south entrance being lined up with Meijer and IDOT is trying to push Meijer to move their driveway further south. He asked what would happen if that happened. Howard Hamilton said they would still be all owed to have the full access but any chance of ever having to try and signalize would not. Commissioner Seggebruch asked if they would be forced to a right in right out. Howard Hamilton said no. Commissioner Seggebruch said he liked what you have done to try and get rid of the race track effect of somebody trying to use it as a cutoff. Commissioner Kachel said if anything it will help the lighting just the way you have the cars travel through the site.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 29 Peter Vargulich said it will help reduce the spe ed because you have a shorter distance to go before you have to make a right and left turn without having to have a lot of signs. Chairman Sobkoviak asked for additional discussion or questions. Commissioner Kachel made a motion to recommend approval of the preliminary plat for the subject property subject to the following stipulations: 1. Compliance with the requirements of the Village Engineer. 2. Compliance with the requirements of the Plainfield Fire Protection District. and further recommends approval of the special use permit for a Planned Unit Development for Plainfield Commons subject to the following stipulations found in the Staff report and with the added fourth and fifth stipulations: 1. Full site plan review is required for all lots. 2. Lots 3 and 5 ar e to be architectural consistent with the proposed character of the PUD. 3. A minimum of twelve (12) additional evergreens are to be placed on the southerly and westerly boundaries to comply with Village Ordinances. 4. Close to 100% visual screening as possible with natural vegetation and plants being planted in that area be a minimum of 8 feet trees to start with to the west and south. 5. Accept the proposed two signs. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel; Seggebruch; Gehrke; Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 4 -0 Motion carrie d. Chairman Sobkoviak advised the applicant this would go forward to the Village Board in May and to keep in touch with staff. Chairman Sobkoviak called for a 10 -minute break. CASE NO. 862 -030901.SPR LOT 9 RENWICK PLACE Planner Garrigan said this is a site plan review for Lot 9 in Renwick Place, which is located at the southeast corner of Renwick and Division. He said the request is a site plan review to construct a full medical center. He said Renwick Place was approved as a PUD in 1998. He said th e site is approximately 1.16 acres in size. He said the PUD agreement for Renwick Place identifies lot 9 as a medical office use and conforms to the applicant’s request. He said direct access would be on Frederick and not on Renwick Road. He said Villag e Ordinance requires 5 parking spaces per 1,000 square feet of gross floor area and the proposed parking area meets that requirement. He said Village Ordinance requires no less than 25% masonry and the proposal adheres to that requirement. He said with r espect to stormwater detention, the Village Engineer is requires to review the project. He said in regards to landscaping the site plan review ordinance established the standards and Staff has had an opportunity to review the proposal. He said Staff is c oncerned with the buffering along the eastern property line, which is adjacent to a residential district. He said Staff is concerned whether applicant’s proposed landscaping plan meets the necessary buffer or screening that is required. He said the submi tted lighting specifications indicate a consistent
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 30 plan concordant with Village requirements. He said Staff recommends approval of the site plan subject to the stipulations as enumerated in Staff’s report. Chairman Sobkoviak asked Howard Hamilton for com ments. Howard Hamilton said it was fine. Gary Erb, applicant, was present and said they had no problem with the additional landscaping. Chairman Sobkoviak asked for Plan Commissioners comments. Commission Kachel said we have a whole area along there wi th homes and any type of screening that goes along in that area should be consistent and have continuity all along there. Howard Hamilton said they already have some red pines back in there. Commissioner Kachel said that area will need to be dense and ma y need to be a little oversized. Gary Erb said the same architect designed this medical building on Lot 9 as the other medical building so it will be similar. Commissioner Kachel said as long as we get good screening, some big trees may cost you a few do llars but will save you a lot of headaches with the homeowners. Gary Erb said they have always worked well with the people next door. Commissioner Kachel said they will like this in comparison to the day care. Gary Erb said the medical building will hav e daytime hours. Commissioner Kachel said it blends in with the residential character next to it. Chairman Sobkoviak asked where the location of the detention area. Howard Hamilton said it is immediately south. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if it takes up all that space or the majority of that space. Howard Hamilton said the property south of this is all detention. He said it runs all the way down to the south property line. Commissioner Seggebruch asked if this was the only parcel directly adjacent to it. Howard Hamilton said it is the only parcel on the east side of Frederick. Commissioner Seggebruch asked if this was designed to blend in with the other medical building. Gary Erb said yes, same materials, same market type and the monument sign will be the same.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 31 Chairman Sobkoviak asked for discussion and/or questions. He said it looks like the petitioner has met the requirements for parking, landscaping, stormwater detention. He asked if he had a problem with the recapture fees. Gary Erb asked would it do any good if I did? Commissioner Kachel asked if we needed to add anything in here as far as additional landscaping or not. Chairman Sobkoviak said it says revise the landscaping to provide the necessary screening as required by ordinance a long the eastern property. Planner Garrigan said that stipulation would address the Plan Commission’s concern about boosting of the landscaping. Commissioner Kachel said it says as required by ordinance and if he is putting in by ordinance right now he i s fine. Chairman Sobkoviak said no they are not right now. Commissioner Kachel said he is bringing this up because it came up so much before for screening and he would like to see more screening on that corner a little bit taller to start with and then i t is done. Commissioner Seggebruch asked if any of the homeowners have fences now. Gary Erb said there are chain link fences. Commissioner Seggebruch asked how many residents were directly adjacent. Commissioner Kachel said he thought there were 2 or 3 people that came last time. Gary Erb said there are single -family homes and then townhomes. He said the few that came were from across the street and they came to support Children’s World. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if we want to change the wording. C ommissioner Kachel said do we want more screening in there. Chairman Sobkoviak said to jack it up to 100%. Commissioner Seggebruch agreed but not necessary to go to 8 foot. Commissioner Kachel agreed also. Chairman Sobkoviak said instead of saying as r equired by ordinance change it to provide necessary screening to 100%. Commissioner Seggebruch asked if 6 feet was fine. Commissioner Kachel said with the pitched roof and everything it would be fine.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 32 Chairman Sobkoviak asked for additional comments and concerns. Commissioner Kachel made a motion to recommend approval of the site plant for Lot 9 of Renwick Place subject to 4 stipulations as noted with the changing of the third stipulation to read 100% screening. Commissioner Gehrke seconded the motion. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel, Seggebruch, Gehrke, Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 4 -0 Motion carried. Chairman Sobkoviak advised the applicant this would go forward to Village Board for their consideration sometime in May and to keep in touch with Staff. CA SE NO: 834 -011601.FP WEINHOLD PROPERTY n/k/a FARMSTONE RIDGE Planner Garrigan said this is a final plat for Unit 1 of Weinhold property located at the southeast corner of 127 th and Plainfield/Naperville Road. He said the Village Board approved the annexa tion agreement for this property in July 1994 and also the preliminary plat for the whole development in November of 2000. He said the final plat calls for 100 single family detached homes on approximately 46 acres. He said the minimum lot size is 12,630 square feet and the average lot size being 15,000 square feet. He said according to Staff calculations the gross density for the final plat for Unit 1 is 2.16 which conforms with the previously approved preliminary plat. He said current zoning for this proposed development is R -1, which is the Village Suburban District according to our Comprehensive Plan. He said with respect to Staff’s analysis and review of the proposed plat, the total preliminary plat was approved for 167 homes on approximately 100 a cres. He said it appears the street alignment conforms with the previously approved preliminary plat. He said there was some concern with the street name for the curvilinear streets Barrow Lane and Shovelier Court that this poses the danger of causing co nfusion and they have agreed to rectify this issue. He said the applicant has addressed the Fire Department’s request to redesign the cul -de -sacs in a teardrop fashion in the final plat. He said with respect to 127 th Street, currently the Village of Plai nfield has a boundary agreement with the Village of Bolingbrook. He said 127 th Street is currently under the jurisdiction of Bolingbrook and they have requested that 127 th from the eastern side of Plainfield Naperville Road to the border of Bolingbrook be improved to a 4 lane road with 100 foot right -of -way. He said in accordance with the Village of Bolingbrook boundary agreement Staff has recommended that the applicant adhere to those improvements. He said discussions are ongoing with respect to who wil l pay for these improvements. He said that issue has not been resolved yet. He aid the Village of Bolingbrook has also requested that Janice Lane, the only stub street in this final plat be reduced from it’s current 31 feet to 28 feet to conform with Bol ingbrook’s in the Woodlake Creek Subdivision. He said it appears that a 10 -foot wide bike path has been incorporated along the south side of 127 th Street consistent with the Village’s bike plan. He said there is a request for landscape plan and in respec t to the open space ongoing discussions are taking place between the applicant and the Plainfield Park District for either a possible cash contribution or a land donation. He said Staff would recommend that some type of resolution is resolved with respect to who will be making the 127 th Street improvements prior to approval of this final plat. He said Staff recommends approval of the final plat for Unit 1 subject to the stipulations in Staff’s report. Howard Hamilton said he covered the issues and the bi ggest one is 127 th Street and the recommendation is that be resolved before it goes to the Village Board.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 33 Chairman Sobkoviak asked if this involved a third party like Bolingbrook. Howard Hamilton said yes it involves Bolingbrook. John Philipchuck, repre sentative of Macom Corporation, and Paul Lehman, president of Macom, were present. Mr. Philipchuck said they are not proposing a bike path along the south side of 127 th because when you get into Bolingbrook’s sector they have a 5 -foot wide concrete sidewa lk. He said Staff mentioned we are working with the Park District and they are going to see if the Park District will take the open space and we might be able to work a path in there to get people over to the river where they will probably be a lineal tra il running along the river and you can pick up the bike path on the south side of 127 th Street we feel west of Plainfield Naperville Road otherwise to require a bike path along our portion of 127 th and all the sudden you have this 10 foot path butting up a gainst a 5 foot concrete sidewalk. He said our proposal would be to continue the 5 -foot sidewalk along the subdivision to Plainfield Naperville Road and then once you are west of there to make the break. He said as it relates to the landscape plan, we di d submit it but we have to remind the Plan Commission and Staff this property was annexed to the Village at the request of the Village and they gave some favorable terms under the annexation agreement, this is not a PUD and there is no requirement for us t o submit a landscape plan, we are not bound to have a landscape plan. He said we showed you what we are going to do with the perimeter but we do not want to be held up with our approval pending approval of the plan that is not required. He said the fina l issue with 127 th Street, again under our annexation agreement it seems odd that the Village prior administration if you will but they entered into a contract with this property owner of which we are going to be a party to and said you only have to do XYZ and then the Village goes out and makes another deal with another municipality, in this case Bolingbrook, to turn over the road jurisdiction. He said not the real odd part is they develop their 127 th Street on the Bolingbrook side in an 80 -foot right -of -way yet not they are telling the Village and us that we have to provide 100 -foot right -of -way. He said they take exception to the increased dimension of that road, it was suppose to be a collector and we have agreed to develop it as a collector. He said we would respectively submit that under their annexation agreement and under the rules of the Village that is all they are bound by. He said it is really not an issue by the Plan Commission but is really an issue for the Village Board. He said we would a sk approval subject to the first 3 stipulations subject to their annexation agreement. Paul Lehman said if the Village of Plainfield and Bolingbrook want the 10 foot bicycle path, they have not problem with that at the same time we do not have a problem p utting in a five foot concrete sidewalk which is what is in Bolingbrook and they are connecting to. He said either way is fine. Chairman Sobkoviak said the bike path they are trying to link to a regional thing but your point is well taken. Commissio ner Kachel said we should look at the regional plan and if there is something that could tie into the regional plan. He said we should take a look at that. Paul Lehman presented their version of a recommendation. Chairman Sobkoviak said point is well ta ken that the improvements to 127 th are beyond the jurisdiction of the Plan Commission. He asked if we normally ask for a landscape plan. John Philipchuck said you asked for it and we gave it to you now don’t hold us up because we gave you a landscape pla n we were not required to give you.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 34 Commissioner Kachel said it should be noted in the recommendation that the bike path as well as donated property should be worked out with the Park District as well as the Board because they are the ones to make the deci sion. Paul Lehman said they met with the Park District and they agreed with the President of the Park District that they would not come to final plat until it was had been reviewed by them and we met with Staff over there and they had no objection whatsoe ver to this proceeding through Plan Commission and going on to Village Board at this time. Howard Hamilton asked if they found proof of the confirmation of the jurisdictional transfer with Bolingbrook after the annexation agreement. He said that was not his recollection. Paul Lehman said if you go back this property was annexed because Plainfield and Bolingbrook did not have a boundary agreement and Bolingbrook was looking west to get to Rt. 59 and at the request of the Village Board these properties wer e annexed into the Village of Plainfield to block Bolingbrook. Howard Hamilton said you are correct. Paul Lehman said when the jurisdiction of the road was given to Bolingbrook, the land was in Plainfield and not in Bolingbrook. Chairman Sobkoviak s uggested stipulation four be amended to read review landscape plan prior to final approval by the Village Board. He said and stipulation five amended to read review the requirements of the Bolingbrook with respect to make required improvements to 127 th St reet. Chairman Sobkoviak asked who is in charge of the bike paths. Commissioner Kachel said the Park District basically. Chairman Sobkoviak said if it is up to him to let the Park District decide. Commissioner Kachel said we are talking about a wh ole regional bike plan that we should be planning to tie into it. Paul Lehman said the Park District has a plan along the river, which he thought they have discussed. Commissioner Kachel asked when you are talking about the river, how do people from othe r subdivisions get over to the river. Paul Lehman said Bolingbrook does not have a provision for any kind of bike path along their 127 th Street frontage. He said from a planning aspect, it really doesn’t make sense to have that bike path if Bolingbrook d oesn’t have anything there. He said they have a walk path. Commissioner Kachel said it should be reviewed by the Park District and by the city to determine whether a sidewalk or bike path be put in this depending on what the regional area is calling fo r. Chairman Sobkoviak said we will put in a sixth stipulation in there to review the bike path on 127 th with the Village Board and the Park District. He asked up on the northwest corner, there is an exception. He asked the number of acres.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 35 Someone thoug ht 3 or 5 acres. Howard Hamilton said it is a big exception. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if it was in Will County. Commissioner Kachel asked it that was going to be historical down the line. Howard Hamilton said it has been talked about Commissioner Seggebruch said he is on the Will County Preservation Board and they have talked about what they call a semantic district of all the stone buildings along the river. Chairman Sobkoviak said in the past they have made a policy of all exception and this parcel does not fall into this category. He said our policy is when there is an exception it must be included in the grand plan. He said your place was worked on before we came up with that policy. He thought it should be on the pubic record that it is our intent for that exception to remain residential forever. Paul Lehman and John Philipchuck said that would violate the annexation agreement as it provides for commercial there. Chairman Sobkoviak said in the future we have to remember to cover these e xceptions. Commissioner Kachel said if that is commercial then we probably need a wider street there. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the final plat is essentially identical to the preliminary plat and what was discussed and agreed on. Response yes. Chairm an Sobkoviak asked for additional comments. Commissioner Kachel made a motion to recommend approval of the final plat for the Weinhold property subject to the following five stipulation as amended in the Planner’s report and with the added sixth stipulati on noting the bike path and sidewalk. Commissioner Gehrke seconded the motion. Vote by roll call AYE: Kachel, Seggebruch, Gehrke, Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 4 -0 Motion carried. Chairman Sobkoviak advised them to be in touch with Staff. CASE NO. WILL COU NTY – BRANDOLINO Planner Garrigan said this property is not in the municipal boundaries of the Village of Plainfield but is within 1 and ½ mile of the municipal boundaries. He said the property is located at 431 South River Court. He said the applicant i s requesting a variance from the required 30 -foot building setback from Will County. He said the subject property is a 16,000 square foot duplex. He said the property currently encroaches into the 30 -foot setback by 8 feet. He said it appears
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES April 17, 2001 Page 36 the proper ty will have no impact on the Village or on any property within the municipality of the Village of Plainfield. He said Staff recommends the Village forward a letter of no objection. Bill Washburn, attorney for petitioner, was present. Chairman Sobkoviak said he agreed with Staff’s evaluation of the project. Commissioners Kachel and Gehrke stated they had no problems either. Commissioner Kachel made a motion to recommend forwarding a letter of no objection regarding the applicant’s request to obtain a v ariance from the 30 foot building setback to a 20 foot building setback line for 431 South River Court, Units A and B, to the Will County Land Use Department. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel, Seggebruch, Gehrke, Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 4 -0 Motion carried . Chairman Sobkoviak said this would go forward to the Village Board for their consideration in May. Commissioner Kachel said on the business overlay district downtown that new building where they have brought the front yard setback right to ground zero , that goes through the whole Village. He said if you look at other areas, the downtown area may have zero lot line which is fine but if you take all the rest of the houses in town and we do the same thing. Chairman Sobkoviak said that is only in B -5. Commissioner Kachel said it is the whole downtown. He said we should look at that. Chairman Sobkoviak said that will require tinkering with the ordinance. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there was any other business for the Plan Commission. Chairman Sobko viak adjourned the meeting. Meeting Adjourned: 10:50 p.m. Merrilee Eighner