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HomeMy Public PortalAbout2001-06-05 PC MinutesMINUTES PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISISON DATE: June 5, 2001 AT: Village Meeting Hall Chairman Sobkoviak called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and led the pledge to the flag. Roll Call: PRESENT: Commissioners Kachel, Seggebruch, Gehrke, Manning, Schi nderle Anderson, and Sobkoviak ABSENT: Park, School, Fire and Library Districts The minutes from Plan Commission meeting of May 15, 2001 were accepted as presented. Development Report: Planner Carroll stated the Village Board approved the zoning ordina nce text amendment for group homes. He said there was a motion to approve the Tuttle annexation agreement and preliminary plat but there was no second so it will have to come back. He said UDV site plan was approved by the Village Board. He said Century Trace Units 4A and 5 were remanded back to the Plan Commission. He said the Plainfield Naperville Business Park PUD was approved unanimously. Chairman Sobkoviak asked when the new Comprehensive Plan was scheduled to be presented for approval. Planner Carroll said in Staff’s mind the finish date is January. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the new Comprehensive Plan will be vastly different from the present Comprehensive Plan. Planner Carroll said there will be some different land use designations as fa r as Estate. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the new Comprehensive Plan includes zoning designations that are different than what we have now, is there an expectation that an ordinance will be enacted to allow these plans to be worked towards. Planner Carrol l said the original plan was to start reworking the zoning ordinance at the end of the Comprehensive Plan. He said that was removed from the Community Development Budget so they will be doing it in May. Commissioner Kachel asked why we have to wait. He said you do not want to stop development but you want the right type of development. Commissioner Seggebruch asked if there was a moratorium. Chairman Sobkoviak said there was not a statement of policy made. CASE NO: 842 -120800.TA ZONING ORDINANCE T EXT AMENDMENT Planner Garrigan stated this matter was continued from the last plan commission meeting. He said pursuant to the directions of the Plan Commissioners, Staff has had an opportunity to reconsider its original proposed off street parking ordina nce with respect to the hardship that it could cause for members living in the community. He said Staff has narrowed the issue down to PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 2 an issue with respect to a certain subdivision in the community specifically Nature’s Crossing where in fact property ow ners have been expanding their existing bituminous or concrete driveways with gravel. He said Staff has had an opportunity to review that based on some of the property owners complaints in that subdivision. Staff feels this should be addressed through a text amendment. He said Staff is not proposing a comprehensive or prohibition of gravel driveways in the Village of Plainfield. He said Staff is specifically addressing the expansion of bituminous or concrete driveways with gravel or any type of pervious materials. He said this would not prohibit people from using paving stones or decorative gravel along their driveways for aesthetic purposes but would prohibit property owners from parking vehicles or trailers on this kind of adhoc gravel addition to an asphalt or bituminous surface. Planner Garrigan said the example in Nature’s Crossing identifies what is happening out there. He explained the various pictures. He said there are 6 to 9 properties in Nature’s Crossing where this has occurred. He said Staff would like an opportunity to make sure a precedent is not established for other subdivisions throughout the Village of Plainfield. Planner Garrigan said the Chief has some concerns with gravel driveways in the Village. He said there have been d iscussion between the Police Chief and Staff. He said Staff would like to give him some opportunity to complete his survey. He said at this particular time we are not seeking a comprehensive prohibition of gravel driveways in the Village of Plainfield. He asked the Commissioners to proceed with the text amendment as identified and defer any further consideration in regards to any possible prohibition of gravel driveways until the Police Chief has had an opportunity to complete his survey. Planner Garrig an said there is no maximum driveway width in the Village of Plainfield in the zoning ordinance or building code or any other codified document. He said originally Staff recommended a maximum driveway width of 20 feet. He said there was some concern by t he Commissioners whether that was feasible. He said Staff had an opportunity to review the maximum driveway width and Staff would recommend the maximum driveway width be established at 20 feet within the Village. He presented pictures that demonstrated t hat the maximum width of 20 feet is doable to have a three -car garage and minimizing the curb cut and the amount of impervious surface on the streetscape. He said we are trying to minimize the impact driveways have in a residential subdivision. He said if the Commissioners feel otherwise, then Staff would recommend that guidelines be established as follows: 1 and 2 car garages be based on the maximum of 20 feet and 3 and 4 car garages be based on the maximum of 30 feet and a maximum in the Village of Pla infield be 30 feet. Chairman Sobkoviak entered the letter from Timothy Racette into the public record. He said the problems described in this letter will not be addressed by this action however, it may be addressed in a later action when we hear from C hief Bennett. Planner Garrigan said we are currently working with Public Works about the restoration of that particular parkway. Chairman Sobkoviak said both Commissioner Schinderle and he had the same question: when we have cases of people who have alr eady done the deed and we will need to come up with a method of dealing with this. He suggestion is they will need to conform and they need to be given a fixed length of time to conform. He did think anything should be excepted as a use that has already been done. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 3 Commissioner Schinderle concurred with Chairman Sobkoviak. He said he felt if they have the money to buy a second or third car or a boat or whatever, if they want to park there then they ought to have the money to put in a hard surface area for that to sit on. Chairman Sobkoviak said the first part of discussion should be that the text amendment should be added to prohibit the expansion of bituminous or concrete driveway with gravel but this is not to exclude the expansion of bituminous or c oncrete driveway with other hard surface material. He asked the opinion of the other Commissioners. Commissioner Seggebruch asked why it did not specifically address the issue of people parking on the grass. Planner Garrigan said their survey did not id entify that as an issue. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if that issue could be addressed in the later action when we get a report from Chief Bennett. Planner Garrigan said yes. Commissioner Seggebruch said that is even one step lower, they do not put down g ravel, they just park on the grass. He asked if there any ban on what vehicles could be parked in front or side yards i.e. campers or boats. Planner Carroll said no there is not a ban. He said a lot of subdivisions have covenants to that effect. Chairm an Sobkoviak the covenants are all but worthless. Planner Carroll said it is up to the subdivision to enforce it. Chairman Sobkoviak said he could think of only one subdivision that has a workable homeowners association that enforces covenants and does t he things an association should do. He said in all the subdivisions, the homeowners association is either non -existent or non -effectual. Commissioner Seggebruch said the idea about prohibiting decorative stone or gravel along the edge of the driveway, we might need to put a width limit on that. He said it looks like a loophole. Chairman Sobkoviak said we could add a clause that the decorative border may not be parked upon. He said if we state borders along the driveway may be of looser material but may not be parked upon. Commissioner Seggebruch said if we are saying someone can expand their driveway with bituminous or concrete and if they do not have the additional garage width to support it. He said he was looking not to allow someone to pave an a dditional lane in their front yard if they do not have the garage bay to serve support it. Chairman Sobkoviak said the minimum width might cover us there. Commissioner Schinderle said that is only at the curb. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 4 Commissioner Seggebruch said it is tied to the width of the garage as well. Chairman Sobkoviak asked for language that would limit that. Planner Garrigan said in Nature’s Crossing where the problem exists, it would limit it because some of these additional fans have paved over that encroach the side yard already so they are currently in violation of the Village ordinance already. Commissioner Seggebruch said you kind of allude to it in the schedule of the driveway width tied to the number of garage bays but it doesn’t come right out and say i t unless you have a three car garage you cannot add a third lane to an existing driveway. Chairman Sobkoviak said the first alternative is to only have a 20 -foot wide driveway at the curb and the second alternative would be to have a 30 -foot wide curb cut if you have a three -car garage. He said we haven’t yet decided which driveway width we are going to settle on. Commissioner Kachel asked what other communities are doing. He said he has driven around and does not see anything that is uniform. Pla nner Garrigan said with his original staff report we did complete a survey with regards to what others are doing. He said he thought to the best of his recollection several communities actually prohibit gravel driveways. He thought all of the communitie s prohibit either parking on grass or the expansion of existing driveways with gravel or some other pervious material. He said what we are proposing is consistent with surrounding communities. Commissioner Schinderle asked what other communities are do ing about width of driveways. Planner Garrigan said he did not do a survey. Commissioner Kachel said he went through Shorewood and Joliet in their new subdivisions. He said he did not see any uniformity. He asked about grandfathering in and how you can make people go back and change it. He compared this to the requirement of full brick and nail on is ... with half -inch masonry on it. He said to get people to make the change that is already in there might be kind of hard. Chairman Sobkoviak said we are not talking huge numbers and this is an ill we are trying to correct and leaving it sit there is not correcting it. Commissioner Anderson said when we push the cars off the sides and they start hanging over the sidewalks, that is illegal. Planner G arrigan said there is a current part of our ordinance right now that prohibits that now. Chairman Sobkoviak asked for public comments. Timothy Racette said the issue he is concerned about is the gravel in the parkway and he understood that will be deal t with later. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 5 Planner Garrigan said they wanted to get the survey to determine how many gravel driveways there are within the Village and to bring that back at a later point. Chairman Sobkoviak said that is a sort of problem for us trying to separate tha t from a simple driveway. He said it will be difficult to make a definition to approve and preclude the other. He said we have elected to take up that matter at a later time as Chief Bennett is also concerned with the type of problem you have described a nd he is conducting a survey now. Commissioner Manning asked if the Village is addressing the problem on Ottawa Street. Planner Garrigan said yes, the Village is talking with Public Works about restoring that parkway as we speak right now. Timothy R acette said there was a gravel drive and after awhile they started parking cars on the grass and eventually more gravel came in. Chairman Sobkoviak asked Mr. Racette be notified when further action is taken on this issue. He said your situation may not be cleared up 100% but we will do everything we can to accommodate your concerns and the concerns of other neighbors and the Chief of Police. Paul Mikashus asked if we have an ordinance preventing people from parking over the sidewalks. He said everyone in his neighborhood parks their cars over the sidewalks and we have to go on the grass when you want to take a walk and they yell at you for going on the grass. Planner Carroll said yes. Nancy Mikashus asked about the portable basketball hoops setting o n the sidewalks. Commissioner Manning asked if they leave them there. Response was yes and Mr. Mikashus said they have handicap people in their subdivision. Chairman Sobkoviak said that is an enforcement thing. He asked Staff to take that under advisem ent to see that the Chief is informed. Chairman Sobkoviak said this portion of the amendment that would prohibit the expansion of bituminous or concrete driveway with gravel, are we in agreement of this amendment added to the ordinance. Commissioner Se ggebruch said he did not see why they could not add the language about parking on the grass. He did not see it as a different issue. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there was an ordinance that prohibits parking on a non -hard surface. Planner Garrigan said no there is not. He said he could amend the proposed motion. He said other Villages have prohibited the parking of vehicles on a grass or dirt surface. Chairman Sobkoviak said we cannot say gravel yet, at some point we may expand that but we need to he ar from the Chief. He thought that would have to be a separate issue. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 6 Commissioner Anderson said he agrees that is a problem in Golden Meadows. He said it reduces the property values of the whole subdivision. Chairman Sobkoviak said we will start out w ith it shall be illegal to park on dirt or grass. He said then expand that further to an area that has a hard surface driveway of concrete or bituminous that it cannot be expanded by the use of gravel. Commissioner Kachel asked how that extends into co mmercial properties. He asked if we are talking about residential only. Planner Carroll said commercial is governed by the site plan ordinance. Commissioner Kachel said the overflow at the High School is gravel. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if we can limit this to residential? Commissioner Kachel asked if you are going to spend time with issuing tickets for parking on the grass or wherever they shouldn’t be. He said there is more that goes along with it. Chairman Sobkoviak said at this point we could l imit it to residential. Commissioner Kachel said we have gone with smaller streets width wise, we have parking on one side sometimes and now in the multi -family when we talk about curbs, cuts, how much grass do you have between multi -family between the cu rb cuts with the 20 foot driveway here and 20 foot driveway and 1 foot between. He said you still have a 40 -foot curb. He said some places you cannot park two cars without overlapping the sidewalk. He said if we are going to start issuing tickets for so mething we have created, then we need to start extending it on the other end of it and not allow certain things happening. Commissioner Seggebruch said a lot of people use their garages for storage and not for parking their vehicles. He said that is wher e a lot of the problems start unfortunately. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if we have an agreement on the first part of the staff report? Nodding of heads. Chairman Sobkoviak said we expanded that to band parking on dirt or grass surfaces . He asked if anyon e was moved to make a motion on this part of the action. Commissioner Manning asked if we were incorporating the residential limitation. Chairman Sobkoviak said we will incorporate the residential limitation . Commissioner Seggebruch asked if there wa s discussion about the retroactive part of it. Chairman Sobkoviak asked are we going to make people go back and change what they have put in in a reasonable amount of time or a set amount of time or do we wish to accept the ones that are already been adde d to. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 7 Commissioner Schinderle suggested giving them 6 months to get the changes made and enforce it at that time. He felt it was not going to increase the value of their property by parking on gravel. He thought it should be corrected. Commissioner And erson said he was confused about the old part of town versus new subdivisions. He asked if this was the expansion of gravel and not dealing with the expansion. Chairman Sobkoviak said we should limit it to one or the other. He said this is the expansion of bituminous or concrete driveway anywhere in the Village with gravel. Commissioner Anderson suggested making it retroactive with some time limit like 6 months. Commissioner Manning made a motion to recommend to the Village Board that the Village Att orney draft the appropriate text amendment prohibiting the expansion of bituminous or concrete driveways with gravel including the recommended changes. Commissioner Gehrke seconded the motion. Chairman Sobkoviak said a motion has been recommended and sec onded to recommend to the Village Board that the Village Attorney draft the appropriate text amendment to prohibit the expansion of bituminous or concrete driveways with gravel and to include the additions that this commission has added to that recommendat ion. Commissioner Schinderle asked before he voted if this included a maximum time of 6 months to get this straight. Commissioner Kachel said some of these people may not have the money to do this. Commissioner Manning said let the attorney decide the time, we will put in our recommendation that there be a specified time for compliance. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel, Seggebruch, Gehrke, Manning, Schinderle, Anderson, Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 7 -0 Motion carried. Chairman Sobkoviak asked for discuss ion as to the width of the driveway at the curb line. He said staff’s feeling of 20 feet maximum regardless of garage width but also allows an alternative of 20 feet for 2 car and 30 feet for 3 and 4 car. He said a 3 -car garage can be adequately served by a 20 -foot drive. He said he would suggest that existing driveways not be required to change regardless of what we do. He said if they are paved they should be allowed. He said this would only pertain to new construction. Commissioner Schinderle sa id he is in favor of the 20 -foot curb cut. Commissioner Seggebruch said from the pictures we saw it looks like they can successfully do it. Chairman Sobkoviak said there is probably some intelligence in leaving as much free grass as possible for water absorption. He said some Villages have ordinances that require a certain PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 8 percentage of ground be left open to water absorption. He said they exclude decks but it covers the footprint of the house, the driveway, outbuilding, pools and anything that would cause the surface of the earth to become impervious to rainwater absorption. He said in some cases we are moving to smaller lots and this makes it even more important. Commissioner Anderson asked if you have a four -unit garage with a 20 foot, this migh t not work. Chairman Sobkoviak said he could not conceive of a 4 -car garage front load garage. He said that would be an unusual looking structure. Commissioner Seggebruch said sometimes they are putting 2 bays inside the garage. Chairman Sobkoviak said you would have a garage with an attached house. Commissioner Kachel said we do not have any estate districts left for that anyway. Chairman Sobkoviak said he has seen some houses around that have 2 front load and 2 side load. Commissioner Seggebruch said anyone who has already put in an extra lane of parking by paving it will be allowed. He said he thought this would only apply to new construction so if anyone wanted to add that third lane to their property and assuming they met the setbacks and ev erything else, they would have to go add the third garage bay. Chairman Sobkoviak said chances are the way the houses are built with the setbacks, there generally is not room on the end of the structure to add another bay. Commissioner Anderson said som eone in their subdivision has just added a garage. Chairman Sobkoviak said Mike’s first suggestion is to limit the curb cut to 20 feet. Commissioner Manning said neither of them would prevent adding a parking area on the side of the garage with concrete. Answer was yes. Commissioner Schinderle made a motion to recommend to the Village Board that the Village Attorney draft the appropriate test amendment that would incorporate a maximum driveway width at the curb line of 20 feet. Chairman Sobkoviak sai d instead of changing the motion we want to make sure that existing driveways will be accepted but no new construction or new additions to existing driveways be allowed. Seconded by Commissioner Manning. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel, Seggebruch, Gehrke , Manning, Schinderle, Anderson, Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 7 -0 Motion carried. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 9 Chairman Sobkoviak said this will be going forward June 18 th . He said we will be taking up the gravel driveways and expansion of those and parking in the front and side yards a t a later date when Chief Bennett comes back with the survey. CASE NO: 868 -041201.SPR MID STATES Planner Garrigan said this is a site plan review for a trucking terminal on approximately 28 acres located at the northeast corner of 143 rd and Rt. 30. He s aid the site proposes a 68,000 feet trucking terminal with an office building of 6,000 square feet and a maintenance structure of 17,000 square feet. He said the applicant is currently operating a trucking terminal at 601 W. 143 rd Street. He said there i s a possibility that Rt. 30 will be rerouted down 143 rd Street and consequently 143 rd Street may demand certain architectural design elements. He said the property is currently zoned I (General Industrial District) which allows a higher industrial use. He said the applicant’s proposed use is consistent with current zoning. He said the applicant appears to meet all the setback requirements in the industrial zone. He said the applicant’s proposed office building requires 3.3 parking spaces per 1000 sq. ft and the proposed terminal requires 2 parking spaces for each 3 employees. He said there are 146 parking spaces provided. He said Staff recommends that the parking in front of the curb of the office structure be designated at handicap parking. He said cu rrently the proposed employee parking lot will be approximately 400 feet from the entrance to the trucking terminal and over 550 feet to the office. He said Staff is concerned with the handicap parking. He said Village ordinance requires 300 feet between the parking lot and structure and Staff would like to see a dedicated walkway through the drive areas for safety reasons. Planner Garrigan said approximately 15 acres of this site will be asphalt. The ingress and egress to this site is via Coil Drive a nd the applicant will be having 2 full accesses, one strictly for truck traffic and one strictly into the employee parking lot for employee and visitor parking. He said site plan ordinance requires 25% masonry. The office building complies however, the p roposed structure elevations are well under the required 25% masonry. He said it is a metal panel building. He said the Plan Commission approved the UDV addition on 143 rd with 40% masonry and Staff feels applicant should be held to the same design standa rds as previous applicants. He said regarding landscaping the village requires 1 approved planting for every 725 sq. ft. He said the property is approximately 28 acres, which would require 1,682 approved plantings, and the proposed landscaping includes a total of 201 approved plantings. He said they are short 1400 plantings. He said Staff would recommend a new landscape plan. He said we need to buffer along Rt. 30 and 143 rd . He said the applicant has proposed the stormwater detention be located on the southern portion of this site along 143 rd . He said the Village Engineer is in the process of reviewing the applicant’s storm water design and there appears to be some concerns and Mr. Hamilton is not in a position to recommend approval based on my discuss ion with him this afternoon. Planner Garrigan said identification of the location and type of trash enclosure is needed. He stated the applicant has not submitted a photometric plan. He said there presently is no sidewalk along 143 rd and Staff would re quest in lieu of a sidewalk there be a cash contribution. He said no signage has been identified for this site. He said Staff is not in a position to recommend approval at this time and in fact recommends denial unless applicant can submit additional rev ised elevations that would address Staff’s enumerated concerns. John Djerf, Hamilton Engineering, said they do not recommend approval as the site plan is incomplete at this time. He said the water main requirement at 143 rd and Rt. 30 is not indicated on the drawings, sidewalk was mentioned, there is need to get permits from Will County PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 10 Highway Department. He said IDOT approval would be required for work along the right of way along Rt. 30 and additionally there is a numerous listing of items needed re garding stormwater detention. He stated there is no sewer or water use calculations provided to determine tap on fees and traffic loading and geometric calculations are needed. Jim Alabrastro, representative of Chapple West, said they are aware of most o f the issues presented. He said the Will County Highway Department has asked they to donate or sell a certain percentage of ground for improvements. He said the Village of Plainfield has asked for an easement adjacent to Rt. 30 for sewer lines. He said they could not revise or give engineers calculations until the land is settled. He said this is not an unusual design. He said the office building will be all masonry on three sides. He said the cross dot terminal itself is just a long building with a b unch of doorways. He said he did not know what you could do to change it. He said this is pretty typical of that type of structure. He said they have extended the overhangs up to 10 feet to keep it nice. He said the roof system is 24 -inch wide galvani zed aluminum zinc coated standing seam roof designed to expand and contract. He said the office is a two story, the dock terminal is 80 by 850 -foot long building and the maintenance facility has 6 bays for interior maintenance, 3 outside bays where the fu elers are undercover. He said total under roof is 91,000 square feet. He explained the site. He explained the easements. He explained the need for the employee parking lot to be further away to prevent pilferage. He explained everything is handicap ac cessible. Commissioner Schinderle asked the number of bays. Jim Alabrastro said 140 trucks would be handled. Commissioner Anderson asked where the entry points were in relation to the building. Jim Alabrastro said the facility faces due south. He sa id the entrance to the circular drive is off Coil Plus Drive. He said the circle drive is a dedicated hard surface drive. He explained the hard surface as 100% concreted surface poured the same as Rt. 59 or all asphalt and a drive wing with an 8 -inch con crete base. He said the trucks will come in and back up to the docks. Commissioner Schinderle said with that many doors, you cannot put masonry on the doors, but how much or what percentage of the building has masonry on it now. Jim Alabrastro said on the dock itself, the only masonry is 4 feet. He said they plan to put a wash coat or … coat that looks almost like Dri -vet. He said they have this beautiful office building, above all these doors on either side of that we can take our metal pans and tie those in to look sharp. He said they plan on a brown or natural type tone for all the offices and the windows are going to be all aluminum color, bronze or whatever, and now we can completely band the whole top of that so when you drive by, keep in m ind that you are a couple hundred feet from the building at any point on the property, so when you drive by and look at it you will say it looks sharp. Commissioner Kachel asked what if there were pre -cast panels. Jim Alabrastro said pre -cast panels wo uld be a different type of construction. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 11 Commissioner Kachel said all the new commercial in Bolingbrook is pre -cast all over. He said you do not have to worry about 10 -year warranty. He said they are going to be around for a long period of time. Jim Alabrastro said the pre -engineered system, the maintenance on it is virtually nil, the exterior appearance is always going to outlast the masonry. He said there is virtually no maintenance. Commissioner Kachel said when you look at the trucking companies on Rt. 30 now, there is one up towards Aurora, another trucking company there, when you look at what was on 143 rd Street as far as where our glass plant was, and you see the changes right now with the commercial that has come into town right now. He said Plainfield Molding had a metal building at one time and they built a commercial building that really blends in well with the particular area. He said this building he has seen them along 80 in Bedford Park and in Bridgeview, but they are industrial indus trial areas. He said you are industrial zoned but you have commercial in that area. He said we talk about what we are going to do, about comprehensive plan, if this goes and whatever happens to the other three corners, the other pre -planning committee ha s already talked about townhomes and things right down the way on 143 rd Street. He said the other property down the way on 143 rd has already been zoned single family. He said the property to the north is and you have a visual aspect on that on Rt. 30 and 143 rd . He said when I see the commercial going in Bolingbrook, there is another big commercial development in Orland Park, over in that area they are using pre -cast, big open areas, as far as grassy areas, they are not farm crop lands, they are usually a ll grass in those areas and it is mowed grass. He said it is a whole look and he thought this particular corner is a very viable section as far as how you come into Plainfield. He said he attended the meeting that was discussed and one of the things that bothered him was, we are talking temporary lights at 143 rd and they said it did not warrant lights in the next two years because the studies that have been done, no one said anything from the Village the fact that we need permanent lights at that corner a nd here you have a trucking firm with potentially no lights at that corner for a safety factor. He said there is a whole bunch of things to go with this particular corner not your particular building. He said he would like to see a trucking company there but it is very visible and the fact that we are talking about a Comprehensive Plan, the western portion of town as far as growth area, as far as a look area. He said we are concerned with U -Haul and a 3 -story building, as far as lights and looks. He sai d we are concerned with Rt. 59 when the storage complex came in there was no outside parking. He said this particular facility has outside parking around it all the time. He said he lived next to a trucking facility as a child and it was a mile and a hal f away and we could hear they unloading all night long, the lights were on all night long. Jim Alabrastro said we do not want to upset anyone here. He said our architect followed all the building codes, all the setbacks, and according to the ordinance this should be able to go in here. He said we do not mind compromising and working with you guys, but do not hold us off to the point where it is going to cost the guy so much more money. Commissioner Kachel said U -Haul came in with a three -story buildi ng and it was denied. He said 3 -story buildings in Chicago fit in fine. He asked if it calls for pre -planning for multi -family a little further down there. Planner Carroll said a proposal was brought in by a developer but it did not go. Chairman Sobkov iak said the property they brought it in on is currently zoned ORI. He said that whole area is penciled in ORI. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 12 Jim Alabrastro said they would like to continue working with the Planning Department and try to resolve the different issues. He said we wou ld like to finish up with them and get this in agreement for the next meeting. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the Commissioner had any concern that would be a showstopper. Commissioner Manning said his concern would be that you are aware of all the issues t hat Staff has brought up and you are aware of all the issues that the Engineer has brought up and you are willing to work with them. He said he was willing to come back in two weeks to see the accomplishments. Commissioner Schinderle agreed. Commissione r Anderson said there was nothing here that was a showstopper to me. He said he was very concerned about the aesthetics of it. Commissioner Schinderle asked if our ordinance said something about other materials being substituted if they are approved by the Village Trustees. He said it doesn’t necessarily have to be 25% masonry for the entire building. Planner Carroll said it says unless otherwise approved. Commissioner Schinderle said we could look at this and see if we wanted to recommend it. Commi ssioner Gehrke said she agreed with Walter. Commissioner Seggebruch said based on what is in the reports there is still a lot of work to do and a lot of information you need to provide, not only for staff but things we should be able to see before we make a final decision. He said the two issues that stand out in the planning report are aesthetics and masonry. He said I am an architect and am familiar with your type of building. He said personally I would like to see material samples. He suggested inve stigating concrete stamping. He said typically it is attached to the form when you are pouring and you can stamp out brick patterns or block or stone patterns. He said typically they will stain the concrete. He said staining is much more permanent and m uch more maintenance free. He thought that would be a better route to go than to go with a stucco look. Jim Alabastro said to keep in mind they have to spend a ton on money on bumpers. He said there is no way a truck is going to get back to that. C ommissioner Seggebruch said he is just thinking with the salts etc. Jim Alabastro said the problem we run into with that type of form, there are some residential guys that have it. Commissioner Seggebruch asked them to investigate that as he thought th ere are more and more of that type of thing. He said you have to pour the concrete anyway. He said if you could give that type of treatment to the base and depending on what you come up with at the top. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 13 Jim Alabastro said a flat line drawing is hard for some people to see. He said he would bring in some material samples. Chairman Sobkoviak said we will need our customary letter from the Fire Department especially with the fuel and the like. Planner Carroll said he spoke with the Fire Department today and . Chairman Sobkoviak said he was sure there was not going to be a problem there. He said the issues in the Planner’s report and Engineer’s report are the hot spots and we do not bend much on these. He said this is what we are used to seeing and wha t we require of businesses coming into the Village. He said we do not think they are out of the ordinary. He said we have looked at what other Villages have done. He said we look forward to working with you and paving the way. He said careful considera tion needs to be taken with 143 rd Street and you will probably get into that with the State and County. He said 143 rd may be Rt. 30 some day. Commissioner Kachel said at a meeting with IDOT the other day, their comment was the Village hasn’t really said that, the studies have been there, they do not warrant it as that and it was kind of like no until we hear from the Village. He said if we are looking at this we need to be looking at the Village on that end of it also because it will effect it. He said your building, trucks, lights. Chairman Sobkoviak said United Distillers was here two weeks ago and they are adding an operation that will add 40 to 50 trucks a day. Commissioner Kachel said IDOT said they have not heard from the Village and it will be a temporary for two years and then they will take a look at it. He said we should be looking at it now and not 2 years down the road. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if they had our expectations. Commissioner Kachel said the same thing with the look of that, to look to the outside when you look at what other communities have, if they have a detention, a fountain, they have a look, a feel, you can do that also and that can reflect on your building. Terry Hartmann, president of Mid States, said he purchased t hat line quite a few years ago with the understanding they could put a nice center on that. He said their present facility down on 143 rd , that building was empty and they put in more than a million dollars to upgrade the office. He said this last winter was one of the worst winters they have had. He said because they have outgrown that site, it is not a pretty site at times. He said they are working with people who want to move into that facility. He said it is a light manufacturing company. He said this new project is going to be Mid States show place. He said it will be their operations headquarters. He said we will bring our major customers in town to see this facility. He said we are not building anything we are not going to be proud of. Cha irman Sobkoviak asked how many trucks a day do you plan on trafficking through this facility. Terry Harman said they have 100 trucks a night now. He said we have down graded that a little bit, we are down to 60 a night, we have diverted 40 of those truck s out of this facility. He said we will have 100 to 120 a night. He said all Villages that want to grow need a transportation hub. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 14 He said our top 10 customers are Fortune 50 companies. He said we do business with Stone Container down the road, Fox Val ley Press and a few other businesses in town already. He said if you have good distribution, you will get other businesses in here. He said they are regional LTL carrier which makes about 10 states and they deliver everything within 500 miles next day an d that is what they are looking for. He said we are 24 hours. He said after 1:30 in the morning it is pretty quiet until 6:30 in the morning. He said the trucks meet at midnight and they have 1 hour and a half to get out. Commissioner Manning made a mo tion to continue the public hearing on the site plan review for the truck terminal until June 19 th . Commissioner Schinderle seconded the motion. Vote by roll call: AYE: Seggebruch, Gehrke, Manning, Schinderle, Anderson, Sobkoviak NAY: None ABSTAIN: Kach el Vote 6 -0 with 1 abstaining. Motion carried. Commissioner Schinderle reminded Staff and the applicant that he would be interested in was the plantings because you are 1400 short. He said you have a big area. Commissioner Kachel said on another commerc ial area, we did require larger plantings into that particular area for view of a vista and the fact that this in off Rt. 30 that might be something to think about. CASE NO: 853 -011701.AA/S SINGLETARY Planner Carroll said this is really a concept plan at this point. He said this is not a formal hearing, the applicant simply wants to get some feedback from Staff as to a development proposal based on comments from Staff and the Plan Commissioner. He said a public hearing will be held when the formal appli cation is filed. He explained the location of this site as being east of the railroad tracks north of Lockport Street with part of it in the Village of Plainfield and part of it in Will County. He said the applicant proposed annexing the unincorporated p arcel and rezoning both to R -4. He said the Plan Commission did not support that application. He said since that time he has proposed to leave the one portion Industrial and annex this portion into the Village as Industrial. He said to the north is zone d industrial, to the northwest is Springhill Estates which is zoned R -1, to the west is the E J & E tracks, and older part of downtown Plainfield with R -1 zoning, to the east is Will County zoned industrial, and to the south is Lake Renwick zoned agricultu ral. He said the Village of Plainfield’s Comprehensive Plan land use map identifies the portion next to the tracks as Auto Urban and the portion east as Village and Suburban which is higher density usually 2.5 per acre and as you go further to the east, it is identified as Rural and some as Estate. Commissioner Schinderle asked if the quarry was there. Planner Carroll said it is behind it. He explained the Plainfield Zoning Map has the portion east of the tracks as industrial. Bart Singletary, applica nt, was present. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 15 Chairman Sobkoviak said he thought we needed to decide what we want Lockport Street to look like out there. He said we need to see what we want along Lockport Street and they we can see what we want in this corner. Commissioner Schind erle said from the railroad tracks to the quarry – there isn’t much you can put in there is there? He said you certainly cannot put residential in there. Chairman Sobkoviak said the area owned by Vulcan is going to stay owned by Vulcan. He said they own that and that is their buffer. Commissioner Schinderle asked who would want to build residential next to a quarry today. Chairman Sobkoviak said Lakelands but in 40 years that is going to be the most valuable property in the township. He said when th at quarry is played out and is full of water that is going to be extremely valuable. Commissioner Kachel said it could be Park District property. Chairman Sobkoviak asked who owned that property. He asked all the way to Four Seasons. Planner Carroll said yes, pretty much. Chairman Sobkoviak said in time Vulcan will relinquish ownership of that property and someone like Jerry that developed Lakelands and create some very expensive property. Commissioner Anderson asked if he was suggesting residential might be preferred. Chairman Sobkoviak said not necessarily. He said the strip along Lockport Street, see that is why we were so adamant about maintaining access through Springhill Estates. He said there is a right of way between some houses that we ch ose not to relinquish. He said we ran into a problem of someone wanting us to vacate part of that. He said the Village needs to maintain that potential right -of -way because at some point that property behind there may be developed. He said it may be 50 years but it will be developed. He said the strip of land along Lockport Street could be anything. Commissioner Schinderle said it could be ORI and if somebody want to develop further east, the zoning could always be changed. Commissioner Kachel said on ce it is built on you cannot do much. Commissioner Manning asked how big this property is. Bart Singletary said just over an acre. Commissioner Manning said all around you is spoken for. He said there is nothing else. Commissioner Schinderle said so meone would put in a Pizza Parlor and ORI would let that happen. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 16 Planner Carroll read from the zoning ordinance – limited to research and development activities, engineering and testing activities, office uses and warehouses and limited manufacturing. He said the parcel currently in the Village is Industrial. Chairman Sobkoviak said 1 acre is not going to buy a whole lot of manufacturing. Commissioner Manning asked who would want to live next to the railroad tracks. Answer – Springhill Estates. Public Comments: Bart Singletary, applicant, said back in October he came to the Plan Commission with Staff’s idea of R -4. He said I could build in Will County now but they want the public utilities. He said he wants to put light industrial that is in complia nce with ORI. He said the residents of Springhill indicated they would rather industrial there than apartments. He wants to annex into Plainfield. Paul Mikashusm said he lives right behind that parcel and light industrial would be right up his alley. He was afraid of any kind of apartments or anyone living back there. He said light industrial is good providing it conforms with lighting and height of the building is a concern. Chairman Sobkoviak said ORI is slightly more restrictive than light industr ial. He said there is a difference. Paul Mikashusm said someday that will be developed and his building is going to be a prelude of what might be back there. Chairman Sobkoviak said what goes along Lockport Street is one thing but what goes behind tha t strip will most likely will be residential. He said the residential may not come all the way out to Lockport Street. He said a heavily traveled street usually generates some more intense uses, maybe some stores or something, maybe more ORI. Paul Mikas husm said the berm is great. He thought light industrial would be right up the alley. Ray Taradjna, Springhill resident, said Paul has planted grass and this looks like his backyard. He said there are 100 trees all along there. He said when you look do wn the yards you see the gigantic green space. He said when he makes this thing he will cut down these 100 years old trees. He said they did not want the apartment building. He said they had less problem with the industrial as there would be people in t here from say 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. and not have 100 people running around there that we did not plan on. He said the bad thing is cutting down the trees. He said his wish would be that he not do anything there and retain the personality when you pull in. He said they are maintaining the grass themselves as Vulcan does not cut it enough. He said with the right kind of planting and leaving in the trees that are starting to grow in here, we will never see that. Ron Dongarra , said we should keep to the ordina nce. He said if the Board is going to say 25% then let stay 25%. He said if you want to come to Plainfield and build industrial, you are going to pay the price and it has to be done this way. He said if you put this in and do it right he would not have a problem with it but he would have a problem with a U -haul. He said this is the main corridor where the downtown exists, the east side of Plainfield. He said is there going to be PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 17 industrial or commercial along side of Lockport Street – if you go furthe r east past Four Seasons you have residential on both side of Lockport. He said he did not see any industrial other than the look of industrial at the training center but that is just a school. He said he thought Springhill with Vulcan behind them that t hey are sitting on good property back there. He said the Board is very sensitive and he said to let this be the entry point of Plainfield. He said he is fine with an ORI but let there be limitations where he has to spend some money. He said last time he wanted to make that property profitable to him to make it a 12 -unit building. He said if he builds a structure, he is going to be a landlord trying to build it for the cheapest price to get the most rent he can for a shelter. He said if he is forced to build something that is going to blend with the Village ordinance then let it be. He said he could not change the ordinance. He said he was present last time Bart came in. He asked Bart what he wanted to build. Bart Singletary said ORI, probably separ ate units. He said he will comply to the ordinance. Chairman Sobkoviak said any structure would have to comply with number 1 the building code and number 2 the site plan review. Ron Dongarra asked what the setbacks would be. Planner Carroll said front yard is 50 feet, exterior side yard is 50 feet, interior side yard is 30 feet, rear is 30 feet. Someone said there is a fire lane, there is suppose to be a fire lane behind Springhill Subdivision. Someone said the setbacks would apply to each parcel. C hairman Sobkoviak said he would no doubt be combining the two parcels. He said there would be parking requirements and lighting requirements. Someone said the fire access which is basically to the right of your property, time limit of usage, if it is a r ental space, because a lot of storage lockups they have a time. Chairman Sobkoviak asked what type of activity is allowed in ORI. Planner Carroll stated warehouse, research, testing activities, engineering type facility. Someone asked if it was limited for a time. Chairman Sobkoviak said forever, ORI is ORI. Someone asked about restricted hours. Chairman Sobkoviak said this has nothing to do with hours. Someone asked about water drainage. Chairman Sobkoviak said that would be part of site plan revie w. He said this is very premature to go into that. He said those issues would be addressed. He asked for other comments. There were none. He said it appears the petitioner would entertain a down zoning to ORI and regardless of which way the rest of Lo ckport Street goes ORI would probably be more likely to blend in than light industrial. PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 18 Commissioner Kachel asked about the building that burned down next to the park. He said we are talking about a look. He said we talk about an entryway into Plainfie ld. He said we are talking about zoning and his feeling is if the applicant is willing to work with us somewhere along the line to give us a better look, a better feel and still have ORI to blend in with the residential and historical character of this fa cility. He thought it would work out good for you and for the Village. He said it would be a give and take and that way you would have a look. He said we need to take a look at this and see how it can best work for him. Someone asked about the bike pat h. Response was the bike path is on the other side of the street. Chairman Sobkoviak asked do I take this you are supporting ORI. Commissioner Kachel said it is ORI but it is almost like a PUD. Bart Singletary said that was a good idea if the Villa ge was willing to work with us and give us a break on some stuff. Commissioner Kachel said he cannot speak for the Village but this is one of the instances we should do it because he does have industrial and he has the right to do with what he wants and h e can do with it what he wants. He said we might not want that but if he is willing to work with us maybe we can come to a nice agreement for the homeowners for the Village for yourself and still get a look coming into the town. Chairman Sobkoviak said you cannot do conditions. Commissioner Kachel said there has to some way to make it different to make it work. Planner Carroll said he would suggest we work with the economic development committee. Chairman Sobkoviak said this is going to be an annex ation. He said for the annexation agreement, you can do just about anything. Commissioner Kachel said he understands where the applicant is coming from but from the Village standpoint, quite frankly this goes back to the rezoning. Chairman Sobkoviak sai d we are not asked to do anything tonight except to discuss this. He said it seems to be there is a consensus on supporting a down zoning to ORI and an annexation of the Will County portion of the parcel. He said in the annexation agreement the things we talked about this evening can be taken care of. Commissioner Kachel said he just wanted to bring them up so you know where we are coming from to put together. Chairman Sobkoviak said the consensus of the Plan Commission then is to support an ORI office, research, industrial designation. He said this is more apt to blend into whatever will happen in the future along Lockport Street whether it goes commercial or residential or whatever. He said the ORI is generally a transitional zoning type designation and it is usually low intensity. He said PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES June 5, 2001 Page 19 it is somewhat flexible in that it offers office space, you could have testing laboratories, research laboratories, sort of low intense usage type operations. Someone said nothing too hazardous. Chairman Sobkovia k said he did not think so. Commissioner Kachel said with the open land and everything, if anything you might get higher rents out of it. He said people do look at those things when they rent properties. Chairman Sobkoviak said we are not called to make a motion or any recommendations. Commissioner Manning said the area north of here is industrial, who owns that. Bart Singletary said Vulcan owns that. Someone said they want to have that in case they ever wanted to bring the railroad tracks back into t he quarry. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there was anything else. Chairman Sobkoviak adjourned the meeting. Meeting Adjourned: 9:15 p.m. Merrilee Eighner