HomeMy Public PortalAbout2001-07-24 PC MinutesMINUTES PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISISON DATE: July 24, 2001 AT: Village Meeting Hall Chairman Sobkoviak called the special meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and led the pledge to the flag. Roll Call: PRESENT: Commissioners Kachel, Gehrke, Manning, Anderso n, Schinderle and Sobkoviak ABSENT: Commissioner Seggebruch Park, School, Fire and Library Districts There were no minutes presented at this meeting. CASE NO: 891 -071301.FP PLAINFIELD COMMONS Planner Carroll said the applicant is seeking final plat a pproval for Plainfield Commons commercial subdivision. He said basically they are requesting subdivision of the lots. The BP Amoco site is located at the southwest corner of Route 59 and 135 th Street with Eagle Chase to the west and they are going to s ubdivide it into 5 lots. He said some of the issues – one of the main issues you will recall from the preliminary plat and special use hearing was screening. He said the annexation agreement calls for screening to go with the additional development of th e site. He said we have received an application for Aldi, which you will see at the next Plan Commission meeting so it is important to be sure that the screening is installed around the perimeter to help buffer the adjacent residential uses. He said Staf f made a recommendation at the preliminary plat stage concerning pedestrian access. He said as you can see there is an existing sidewalk coming from Eagle Chase. The applicant is proposing one coming into the site from the bike path as well as the north side of Aldi. Staff brought up the possibility of another sidewalk on the north side of the Aldi Food Store, as it might be safer. He stated this property is subject to recapture fees. The fee for this site is $1,888.00 per acre payable at time of bui lding permit. He said that concluded the Staff report Chairman Sobkoviak asked the applicant to identify himself. Peter Vargulich, Edwards & Kelcey, said they propose a sidewalk on the south side of the driveway as it runs east and west and the reason being as far as access from a pedestrian standpoint or logically places to come over from Eagle Chase if you are walking, you have to cross this driveway to get to the other side, this curb cut for Lot 2 you cross here to get down there and you will still have to cross a third time to get come this way. He said it seemed a half dozen on one and 6 of the other and if you are coming over to Lot 4 you face the same issue. He said at the most you are saving one driveway crossing and what it might do is reduce the landscaping area, it would still function but it would not function as well with a sidewalk. He said that was their concern. He said when we were here before you were mostly concerned about the screening to the west and we agreed to that. He said additional comment from the Board was supply landscaping along the driveway, which we did.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES July 24, 2001 Page 2 Commissioner Kachel asked if the sidewalk has to be five feet wide. He said it is not like it is going to be a main sidewalk. Commissioner Sobkoviak said the ide a for a five -foot wide sidewalk was so that 2 baby buggies could pass. Commissioner Kachel said he did not know if two baby buggies would be passing in the middle of a parking lot. He said you could have five foot wide and you could have bike paths but i n this area here if you want the landscaping and you want pedway for people and it is limited, why couldn’t you narrow it up a little bit. Planner Carroll said the subdivision control ordinance calls for five -foot and when you are talking about pedestrian access the wider the better. Commissioner Kachel asked what was better to walk if we do not have a sidewalk there and there is no sidewalk there and you walk on the street. Peter Vargulich said we propose a sidewalk on the north side of the street. P lanner Carroll said he did not consider a four -foot sidewalk but he did not know what a foot was going to give. Chairman Sobkoviak said even if you do not plant a tree, there would be grass. Howard Hamilton, Village Engineer, said originally we wanted 5 foot then 4 foot then back to 5 -foot sidewalks. Commissioner Manning asked the width of the area. Peter Vargulich said it varies but it was 10 feet here and a little wider there and because they needed to meet the parking requirements, it is a little nar rower. He said a four -foot walk through there takes out. Chairman Sobkoviak said it takes out the possibility of any kind of meaningful tree. He said if you put a sidewalk there and you have any kind of tree there at all it would buckle. Peter Vargulic h said they wanted to have landscaped areas that will be effectively maintained by the lot buyers. He said if they get real narrow, it is difficult for them to maintain those areas because of snow plowing and normal operations that they have. Chairman Sobkoviak said fortunately in the wintertime you have less pedestrian traffic. Peter Vargulich agreed and but if the landscape area is reduced they are going to push the snow onto the landscape.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES July 24, 2001 Page 3 Chairman Sobkoviak said he would be more satisfied with a d ecent sidewalk on the south side of the street and allow sufficient room for trees or grass on the north side. He said we are only talking about across the street, how wide is the street – 30 or 40 feet? Commissioner Manning asked where it would be on th e south side. Peter Vargulich indicated the sidewalk coming in from Eagle Chase, cross and the sidewalk runs along the driveway down here so you would still have fourteen feet of landscape area between the sidewalk and the loading dock and you would cross this way to Aldi’s. Commissioner Manning asked if that would be the sidewalk along the east side of Aldi’s? Peter Vargulich said this is something they would build as part of their building because this leads right into their entry. Chairman Sobkoviak asked what kind of business would be to the north of Aldi’s. Peter Vargulich said it is identified as some sort of automobile service. Chairman Sobkoviak said he would not expect a whole lot of pedestrian business going in there. He thought the pedestri an business would be going into Aldi’s or to the other retail. Peter Vargulich said depending on the mix of tenants over here. He said the same thing with the car wash over here, they will drive, use it and leave not and not walk on a pedestrian relation ship. Commissioner Manning said there is not going to be a sidewalk on the west side. Peter Vargulich said yes on the west side, oh here, no there is not enough room. Commissioner Manning said you can’t go up there and straighten that out and come down. Peter Vargulich said we could but if we run that same sidewalk along here, we have a thirty foot easement to do landscaping here, we do not have an easement to landscaping here and because of the geometry, we had to line up with the Jewel we were limited to how far we could push this driveway into the property. He said we have ten feet here to plant these evergreen trees, as it is they will probably be planted back towards the property line and if you want to call it hang over the pond property just to g ive them enough room to grow but if we had to put a sidewalk that wrapped all the way around here it would limit our ability to plant those trees which was a very important thing not only for the screening but effectiveness for headlights coming this way w anting to have a maximum room to deaden those so that was the only reason we didn’t go all the way around. Commissioner Kachel said he likes the idea where you are coming from, there is only one concern he has and that is on 59 we pushed to get a sidewalk across Rt. 59 at the bridge to go north so people from town if they want to go to Meijer they can go up there. He said if it is
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES July 24, 2001 Page 4 north and they put the sidewalk not on the east side of the road but put it on the west side of the road so if there is ever g oing to be a connection between Plainfield and Meijer and this corner and the Jewel and the sidewalk all along that east side here on 59. Peter Vargulich said this neighborhood can connect to Meijer. Commissioner Kachel said IDOT is supposedly giving us a sidewalk. He asked if he was correct? Howard Hamilton said he did not recall the Village went forward with the sidewalk. Commissioner Kachel said he was told they did and it was to go on the west side of the road because he was pushing for the east si de. Howard Hamilton said the last he recalled and this goes back a year. Commissioner Kachel said this was within the last six months. Howard Hamilton said they may have done it without him then. Commissioner Kachel said you have a bike trail and you h ave no way to cross the river, you have a park down there, you have a walkway and he was told that one of the trustees suggested the west side but he was pushing for the east side when Meijer came before us and he asked why don’t we have a sidewalk going a ll the way along the east all the way up and they can bring it all the way down to the parkway and take it across because they are putting the bridge across there now. He said there are two sidewalks pedestrian crosswalks. He asked why should IDOT be abl e to put that across without any pedestrian crosswalk. He said they should have been giving us two of them from what we had had before to get to the north side of town. He said if we get one that is fine but if it is on that side then we need a sidewalk along there also. He said it would not make sense to take a sidewalk across and not have it go to Jewel or Aldi or anyplace else up in that area. He said that is what he was told and the comment came back to him that one of the Board members wanted it on the other side. Ron March, developers of the site, said anytime you put a sidewalk and you have a right in right out like at Amoco and signalization with left turns coming into the site from the south, if you put a sidewalk in there you really have a pot entially injurious situation for this. He said they don’t look at somebody coming through the light taking a right in or right out to somebody walking on that sidewalk. He said it is better they should have interior sidewalks to get through this site dow n potentially to 59 and further. Commissioner Kachel said we would still need something down in that area regardless on lot 5 down there where BP is there would still have to be a sidewalk to that area to tie it something further to the south end to be ab le to tie it up through that area. He said he has seen it and he knows what you are talking about, but it is dangerous but he has seen other developments done that way where they have brought the sidewalks, if you go south down to
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES July 24, 2001 Page 5 Essington – there is a sidewalk that comes right up to the driveway, the brand new Jewel they have a sidewalk that comes right up to the gas station. Black Road not Essington it comes right up to it, a brand new sidewalk that goes no where that way but people from that subdivi sion at a later date will be able to get there. He said the fact of the matter is if you are going to be talking about people from town wanting to be going that way and you have older people and you talk about people being able to move, you are talking ab out scooters and everything else coming up later on, if we are going to have access and it is going to be on that side we need some type of sidewalk. Ron March asked whose jurisdiction will it be to plow it or shovel it? Planner Carroll said if it is in the right of way. Ron March asked is it in the right of way or are you talking about private property cause when you plow 59 you know what is going to happen, it is going to get covered. Peter Vargulich said typically it does not get used that time of t he year because no one really clears it other than Mother Nature when it has melted. He said it is very unusual for a community to go out. Ron March said he has seen it not done because of that very reason. Commissioner Kachel said if you look at our ow n town and you look at 59 we had a sidewalk with a space between it and it is one of the things he is going for now when they widen 59 to give us a green space along with it and a little bit because right now they block the whole meeting place area totally with snow all the way down through. He said in the springtime, summer and fall people can walk from place to place if we have a sidewalk. He said in talking about the wintertime and if there is no sidewalk that is something but he was told there was goi ng to be a sidewalk going across in that area. Ron March said this is the first he has heard of it. Commissioner Kachel said the original drawings did not show it last year because they did not have any plantings on it. He said we brought it up at the r ailings last fall, we brought up plantings, the sidewalk, street lighting, and the viaduct. He said we brought them all up and as far as going across, he said if IDOT is going across and putting a new bridge in it should have been a walkway and it was my understanding that we were going to get something there. Peter Vargulich said this is the first he heard of this. Planner Carroll said for that area he did not recall. Commissioner Kachel said it was not discussed with you earlier. He said this is not something you forgot, this is something looking at it right now, thinking about it, it is a
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES July 24, 2001 Page 6 community thing, we are going to have a Jewel, a Meijer and all those stores up there in that area. He said if we are going to have a sidewalk it should interconne ct. Chairman Sobkoviak said the Planner’s report has stipulation number 3 providing an additional sidewalk along the south side of Lots 2 and 3. He asked do we want to agree with that or do we want to strike that. Commissioner Manning said strike it. Commissioner Anderson said he would prefer have the landscaping. Planner Carroll said with the landscape plan it kind of brings some life to it. Chairman Sobkoviak said OK we will strike that third stipulation. He said stipulation number 4 install peri meter landscaping in conjunction with the development of the first lot of the subject property. He asked if the applicant was in basic agreement with that? Ron March said yes. Chairman Sobkoviak said and submit a copy of the covenants and restrictions f or the subject property prior to recording of the final plat. Ron March said yes. Chairman Sobkoviak asked and pay applicable recapture fees. Ron March said yes. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there were any other issues. Commissioner Kachel said he woul d like to put into there after you check this out with the sidewalk if that is going across there then we should. Chairman Sobkoviak said that can be added at Village Board level. Commission Kachel said to make a notation here for the engineer to review it. Chairman Sobkoviak said let’s just modify stipulation 3 to Staff and Village Engineer to investigate the plans for a sidewalk along highway 59 and if so any sidewalk along 59 needs to be incorporated into that. Commissioner Kachel said and if not the n do nothing at all. Howard Hamilton said he would talk with the administrator.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES July 24, 2001 Page 7 Ron March said Amoco is already there and they do not have a sidewalk, what are you going to do? Chairman Sobkoviak said this may be a sidewalk we are looking for is a sid ewalk from IDOT that may be in the right of way. Ron March asked who is responsible for installing and maintaining the walk? Howard Hamilton said the original issue when we discussed this with IDOT is that they will install it at Village cost and that is why Meijer’s was giving us money to have IDOT install the sidewalk. Peter Vargulich said that is not uncommon. He said IDOT does not want sidewalks. He said they expect you to take care of them. Howard Hamilton said what he did know is after he g ave the Village the report on what it would cost to put sidewalks there and the Board directed negatively to that report that was close to a year ago and now he is hearing something might have changed around the first of the year and that is possible and w e will get with Terry and follow that up. Chairman Sobkoviak said the parties responsible for installation will have to be determined at that time. He said that will be handled by the Village Board. Commissioner Kachel said he didn’t want to hold this u p. Chairman Sobkoviak said it sounds like the sidewalk went away. Howard Hamilton said at least in front of Meijers it didn’t cause we took cash for that sidewalk installation. Commissioner Schinderle asked if it is on the east side of 59 then it should all be on the east side. Commissioner Kachel said no the thing is when he had asked before, they are putting in the new bridge and viaduct that we have a way that you can walk across 59 to get from one side of 59 into the Village of Plainfield. Commissi oner Schinderle said walk across 59. Commissioner Kachel said he meant to walk across the river. He said right now we can walk across on either side. He said he wanted one area and suggested the east side because Meijer was down there at that time and i t would tie right into Meijer as far as what they were doing. He said he was told later that it was going on the west side because it tied in with Marybrook and some of the people felt it should tie in there. He said he never heard anything past that poi nt. He said we are talking about a bike path down there, a park down there which is already there and no way to get from one side of the river to the other side of the river and
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES July 24, 2001 Page 8 what was proposed by IDOT and he talked with the Park District on it, the Par k District was going to possible put a small bridge at Township expense across the river to be able to get people across it and they were supposedly talking with people at the Village. Commissioner Anderson said the thing about the west side they can get up there through Eagle Chase if they had to. He said it is not as direct but there are sidewalks all the way through Eagle Chase to get up to 135 th Street for all those existing subdivisions. Commissioner Kachel asked from the Village of Plainfield how d o you get out there? Commissioner Anderson said on the Meijers side. Commissioner Kachel said that is what he suggested and they did not want it on that side they wanted it on the west side. Commissioner Anderson said a portion it already there north of the river. Commissioner Kachel said it was in the Enterprise that he brought this up. He said there were five issues brought up and he was told later if there was a sidewalk going across it would be on the east side no west side of the river. He said h e was told it was the west side. Commissioner Schinderle asked Commissioner Kachel if we can’t leave it that Staff explore (… two people talking) and it would be our recommendation that the Village Board make the decision as to what happens to that sidewa lk. Chairman Sobkoviak said what the Village Engineer professing no knowledge of this; it is possible that the idea was rethought. Commissioner Manning said even if it was built it would not be built until the lots were developed would it? Howard Hamilt on said no if it were to be built it would be built by IDOT as part of the road improvements. Someone said either side IDOT would build it. It would be to determine who would reimburse them. Howard Hamilton said he could tell them it is not in the middl e. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if we were getting a divider. Howard Hamilton said we are but it would not be a sidewalk. Commissioner Manning asked if we have to attach any conditions to this proposal.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES July 24, 2001 Page 9 Chairman Sobkoviak said yes a stipulation that Staff and the Village Engineer investigate and see what the decision is and whether there is to be a sidewalk on either side and if this needs to have any connection with it. Commissioner Kachel said if there is no sidewalk it doesn’t effect this and it goes th rough the way it is. Chairman Sobkoviak said if it has been rethought and reconsidered then the issue goes away. He asked if there were any other issues about screening. Commissioner Manning asked if there was a bike path someplace in here. Peter Varg ulich said there is an asphalt bike path that was built as part of the Amoco project that goes from the 59 right of way all the way back to the western edge of the property. Commissioner Kachel said that was part of the walkway across the river and that w as people could take a bicycle or an electric motor car (for the handicap) and get from this side of the village to the other side of the village. He said like the post office – you cannot get out there now. Chairman Sobkoviak said those cars are great o n the flat but they will not climb a grade. Commissioner Kachel said he brought something up before and just wanted it checked out. He said why have a bike path if you cannot get down Rt. 59. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there were any other issues. He went over the letter from the Village Engineer. Applicants agreed. Commissioner Anderson made a motion to recommend approval of the final plat for Plainfield Commons subject to stipulations 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and originally proposed and stipulation 3 as ame nded. Commissioner Manning seconded the motion. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel, Gehrke, Manning, Schinderle, Anderson, Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 6 -0 Motion carried. Chairman Sobkoviak advised the applicants to keep in touch with Staff for the next meetin g. Chairman Sobkoviak adjourned the meeting. Meeting Adjourned: 7:30 p.m. Merrilee Eighner