HomeMy Public PortalAbout2001-09-18 PC minutesMINUTES PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISISON DATE: September 18, 2001 AT: Village Meeting Hall Chairman Sobkoviak called the special meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and led the pledge to the flag. Roll Call: PRESENT: Commissioners Kachel, Seggebruch, Gehrke, Manning, Anderson, and Sobkoviak Library District ABSENT: Commissioner Schinderle Park, School, and Fire Districts The minutes from Plan Commission meeting of September 4, 2001 were accepted as presented Development Report: Planner Carroll said we have two development reports – one from September 10 th and one from September 17 th . At the September 10 th meeting he said the Village Board denied Mary D’s special use for outdoor eating. He said the Board continued Grande Park to September 17 th and the Board denied the Singletary rezoning and Centerpoint Properties was approved. At the September 17 th meeting Planner Carroll said the Village Board approved the actual ordinance for Grande Park so it is actually annexed to the Village. He said the Board d irected the attorney to draft the ordinances for the Sohol (Shenandoah) just west of Tuttle; the Jordan Lane fence variance was denied and directed the applicant to remove the fence within 30 days; the Board supported the text amendment to the Sign Ordinan ce and directed the Village attorney to draft the ordinances; Merlin’s Muffler Brake Shop site plan review was approved for Lot 14 in Renwick Place; Singletary asked for reconsideration and was denied again. Chairman Sobkoviak said the rest of the propert y all the way out to Four Seasons is zoned industrial. He said the neighbors supported the ORI also. Planner Carroll agreed. Chairman Sobkoviak said he received some letters in the past couple of weeks from concerned individuals regarding the rumor tha t there is going to be a Wal -Mart consideration on Rt. 59. He gave his copies to the Secretary and should that situation arise and the principals go forward with the petition we will have these copies on file and they will be part of the record. Martin Franken, a resident, stated the meeting between Pulte and Wal -Mart had called a meeting Wednesday (tomorrow evening at 7:30) to meet with the subdivision and that meeting has been cancelled.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 2 CASE NO: 892 -082201.FP KENSINGTON CENTER Planner Carroll sai d this is the final plat for Kensington Center. He said this is the commercial section for Kensington Club. He said the site is located at the southwest corner of 127 th and Rt. 59. He said this piece is where Target is being built and the Plan Commissio n approved site plan for Chili’s. He said this final plat actually subdivides this one lot into 5 lots. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if this was similar to the action taken at 135 th and 59. Planner Carroll said correct. Planner Carroll said some of the g eneral issues we typically look at are 1) screening for surrounding residential uses. He said in this case the Target is actually installing a landscape buffer around the perimeter of the site on the west and south side of the subject property. He said 2 ) pedestrian access circulation is important to the site. He said recall that a bike path is being installed on the north side of the site (south side of 127 th ) and there is a stub bike path from the residential area to the south into the site and when Ch ili’s came through the Plan Commission and Staff recommended a sidewalk along its frontage and Staff would anticipate as the other outlots develop we would do the same. He said there are no other major issues. He said Staff requested a copy of the covena nts and restrictions just to make sure that all the necessary measures were in place for maintenance and that sort of things. He said the applicant has provided a copy of the covenants and restrictions and they appear acceptable. He said subject to any c omment, Staff would recommend approval and should the Plan Commission agree the motion outlined in Staff’s report is suggested. Chairman Sobkoviak asked the applicants to state their names. Mike Firsel, representative from Mid America Investment. Comm issioner Anderson asked Doug if there was an issue with another property as far as staking or movement of employees in terms of a drive through window. He asked are developers starting to overload their lot configurations as they are coming into town. Pl anner Carroll said that is a good point. He said we have our setbacks as far as side yards and front yards. He said a lot of times especially in the B -3 drive -thrus and that sort of things our special use gives us a chance to review stacking and that sor t of thing as well as site plan review. He said this case in particular you have three outlots defined on Rt. 59 where you might have a drive thru. He said one of the lots is Chili’s and it does not have a drive -thru so there are two other outlots that m ay have a drive -thru. He said this case in particular the lots are large enough to accommodate any stacking and when they do come through the ordinance does require a certain amount stacking. Commissioner Anderson said you have dialog with developers. Planner Carroll said yes we try to.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 3 Chairman Sobkoviak said when we get the site plan review we have the opportunity to insure there is adequate stacking. Commissioner Anderson said and sometimes we have turned away certain developments that are overloa ding the site. He said it seems to be an increasing situation and he thought that was because of the volume of development. Chairman Sobkoviak said they try to use city streets for stacking and we try to avoid that. Commissioner Kachel said as far as st acking and the radius in turning. He said if you look at some of the commercial developments that have gone into town and look at the curbs, look at the black marks all over. He said the postal service as far as how you drop mail off. He said a lot of t he radius are too tight for people, either they are too narrow or the radius is not right. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the engineer checked this out. Commissioner Kachel said they might but something is not being checked. Chairman Sobkoviak said one of the problems is people are trying to negotiate a narrow strip while they are talking on their cell phone and run into the curbs. Commissioner Kachel said when you drive around Chicago and in certain areas, some areas have way more black marks and thes e are like they were black topped. He said it is not just one black mark, it is many black marks and those are the ones that give a problem. He said it causes damage to people’s cars, it is an unsafe condition and it is something we should look at especi ally when we are talking about tight areas. Chairman Sobkoviak said that is a point we need to take up with the engineers. Commissioner Kachel said it goes hand in hand with what Alan is talking about because you talk about stacking, widths and it all go es together. Chairman Sobkoviak said we should not be allowing stacking on Village property. Commissioner Anderson said with Aldi’s we had that discussion about turn motions and how they can deliver goods to the site. Commissioner Kachel said we have some area in town when you go into them with your vehicle it is tough to get around them, tough to get in them and tough to get out of them and we should start looking a lot closer as far as movement of traffic in it. He said now they are busy but not ne ar as busy as they will be. Chairman Sobkoviak said we need to send that message to the Engineer.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 4 Commissioner Seggebruch said the Village had to spend money to tear out the intersection of Van Dyke at Rt. 30 and redo it because when the Post Office put it in, they followed federal standards, which like you said are much tighter. Commissioner Kachel said if you look at the drop off, it is like black all the way through there. He said you are better off not to have the curbs and let them drive on the gra ss and let them worry about it. He said it is the same thing with some of the drive -thrus that we have, they are very tight for people to get in and out of. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there were any questions or issues. Commissioner Seggebruch asked what the explanation for this configuration. Planner Carroll explained where Target was and that they have a need for more parking. He explained where Chili’s was located. Commissioner Seggebruch said he thought the layout was kind of unusual. He said he did not get a chance to see the Target site plan. Chairman Sobkoviak asked for comments from the audience. There was none. Commissioner Manning made a motion to recommend approval of the final plat for Kensington Center subject to the following st ipulations: 1. Compliance with the requirements of the Village Engineer. 2. Compliance with the provisions of the Plainfield Fire Protection District. 3. The applicant provides a copy of the covenants and restrictions prior to recording of the final plat. Commiss ioner Seggebruch seconded the motion. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel, Seggebruch, Gehrke, Manning, Anderson, Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote 6 -0 Motion carried. Chairman Sobkoviak advised the applicants to keep in touch with Staff for the next meeting. CASE NO : 897 -081701.SU PFEIFFER AUTO BODY Planner Garrigan said the applicant is requesting a special use permit for the operation of an automobile body repair facility and car wash in the existing structure. He said the property is located on the east side of R t. 30 just north of 143 rd as part of the CenterPoint Industrial Park. He said the property currently contains a 1 story vacant industrial building. He said the structure has been vacant for an extensive period of time. He said the current property is zo ned General Industrial. He said the car wash is allowed as a special use under the General
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 5 Industrial zoning district when used in conjunction with an automobile service station. He asked for input from the Plan Commission to determine whether a car wash is consistent with the character of the General Industrial zoning district. He said in accordance with the Village’s Zoning Ordinance Section 9 -30 the applicant must show or demonstrate that they have conformed with the three standards. He said those st andards are a) the establishment, maintenance or operation of the special use will not be detrimental or endanger the public health, safety and general welfare, b) the special use shall not be injuries to the use or enjoyment of property in the immediate a rea for purposes already permitted and c) the establishment of the special use will not impede the normal and orderly development of the surrounding properties. He said the applicant must demonstrate that they conform with all three of these standards. H e said the applicant proposes to reuse approximately 11,000 square feet industrial building. He said the applicant proposed repainting the structure and replacing the large bay doors. He said other than some landscaping improvements, some improvements to the parking area and perhaps removal of the fence that currently exists there will be no other major changes to this structure so consequently from a procedural perspective it is a special use application. He said the applicant is proposing to reuse the existing curb cuts that the previous use (Firestone Truck Maintenance Building) used on Route 30 for access into their property. He said the special use should not be detrimental to or endanger public health, safety and general welfare. He said the propo sed use and refurbishment is consistent due to the fact that the area to the east and south and the 143 rd corridor areas are currently zoned industrial and all uses there are presently industrial. He said with respect to the second standard the special use should not be injurious to the enjoyment of other properties in the immediate area as the proposed use would be consistent with the previous use of this site by the previous tenant. He said with respect to the third standard the areas around this site are zoned industrial with the area to the immediate north being ORI. He said the only area that could potentially have a possible impact is the area to the west which is currently unincorporated agricultural land. He said possibly down the road that cou ld be future residential development. He said Staff has concerns with outside storage of vehicles. He said we would be looking for vehicles being stored outside no longer than fourteen (14) days. He said any kind of work, bodywork or anything like that be done within the structure itself. He said subject to any comment, Staff would recommend approval and should the Plan Commission agree the motion outlined in Staff’s report is suggested. Chairman Sobkoviak said across the street is a pole building that has seen quite a few uses over the years. He said for a long time it was a power grouting company, another time it was an auto body and towing outfit. He said he did not know what was in there now. He said there is other commercial type activity going on in there so concerns about the west side of the road being potentially residential may not have substance. Commissioner Kachel said to the direct north of there within a stones throw is all residential. He said we are looking at a piece of property on the other side of the street whether it be commercial, he did not see it as industrial but maybe it will be but nothing has ever been shown. He said the far west of there is all residential on the other side of the Keller property, when we talk about 143 r d Street talking about putting in lights and things, they talked about residential and possibly commercial. He said there has never been any talk about industrial on that side of the road. He said his concern is we have seen a lot of building similar t o that
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 6 that go down and if there is commercial or residential there in that area, it may stay. He said you have to look at the open land around it and what you are going to be looking at in the future. He said the Comprehensive Plan talked about resident ial for it. He said he sees possible commercial but with industrial there is somewhat of a concern. Commissioner Manning said assuming it does go residential to the west, what impact does that have on this presentation. Commissioner Kachel said with the presentation itself, I know you are doing some of the work to the building and he would like to see the applicant do a little bit more to dress it up. He said it is not really your fault the way that building looks, that was done years ago when it was an industrial complex. He said what you are doing is nice but he would like to see a little bit more. He said more plantings to the front to soften it, if it is commercial across it would fit in nicely and would blend, if it is residential it would soften the impact of it. He said it doesn’t cost a lot but it would look nice for your facility also. Dave Pfeiffer and Mick Maher, applicants and Chuck Thomas, attorney for applicant, were present. Chuck Thomas said the use they are proposing is very consiste nt with the prior use although it is a little bit higher because preparing personal vehicles and the like is a higher use than fixing semi trucks. He said if you look at the far right of the diagram, there is a bay door on the right, that part of the righ t 20% of it was the wash for the semi’s. He said that was an automatic truck wash. He said we are proposing a more high scale operation, we do not want any machinery on the property to wash the vehicles. He said this is going to be a hand wash operation and he thought much more expensive than when you drive through Robo wash and give the guy $4.00. He said this is going to be more expensive and we are aiming for something higher class than that. He said with respect to dressing up the property, that is an excellent idea. He said there is concern from Staff that they do not want this place to look like a salvage yard and that is the last thing they want and the reason for that is if it starts to take on that appearance, we will get very little walk in b usiness. He said when people see that when junk cars are in view and the place looks like a salvage yard, they are not going to come in there and have their vehicles repaired, painted or whatever. He said a large part of this business is referrals from i nsurance companies and they do not want to be sending people to a place that looks like it is a salvage yard. He said they propose to surround the back and sides with stockade fence and plantings to make the place look better than what it is. He said it is a small part of CenterPoint Properties and next to it is the transportation facility that CenterPoint has there which involved a lot of truck traffic in and out. He said this proposal would not add much stress onto what is on Rt. 30 now. He said with this size of building, everything can go inside. Mick said he would like to have to put up a sign to realize there is actually an auto body shop. He thought the trees are a great idea. Commissioner Kachel said anything you can do in improve it. It ha s been an eyesore for years. He said some have awnings, he said there are things that do not cost a lot but can
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 7 break up that box look and make it feel more like a commercial building. He said the more that that looks like a commercial building, if you h ave commercial across the street, it will blend in nicely, if it is residential you look out on a commercial building. He said it could be just awnings or small canopies and you could back light those at night and it adds to you as far as being able to se e you if you do not put too much on cause then we have to worry about sign ordinances but a couple trees you make it more inviting to the public especially with the hand car wash and you are in the business and some of the best car washes in the Chicago la nd area are the ones that look the greatest from the outside of it. He said you have a good box to work with and you could do whatever you want. Chairman Sobkoviak asked what we required of Todd’s Body Shop. Planner Carroll did not recall as far as scr eening. He thought we required a fence and knew we required a fence for Collision Revision. Commissioner Kachel said going back to Todd’s at one time we required the fence in that area, he had people breaking in but he softened it up with trees in that a rea. He said there were residents behind him. He said at one time it was to be all paved. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if they were going to be able to fence off the area where the cars would be worked on or be stored. Chuck Thomas described where the s tockade fence would be in the front and that there would be something similar all alone the sides and all the way around to the back to the building again. He said you screen any cars on the property but we do not want anybody outside to be looking in bec ause there is always the temptation for kids or someone else to break in there. We are talking about screening the whole thing off. Chairman Sobkoviak said we are trying to maintain consistency. He said in recent times, this is the third auto body shop that has come before us and we want to try and be consistent with everyone. Chuck Thomas said they understand the Commission and Village Board has all the power in the world to require reasonable accommodations to be made. He said this is something we wa nt to do because we do not want to have to have security guards with German Shepherd dogs 24 hours a day. Commissioner Kachel asked if it was gravel or blacktop back there. Response was it is all blacktop. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if a site plan was req uired for this parcel. Planner Carroll said no basically because the applicant is just adding some paint and cleaning up the site more than anything. He said they are not changing the structure itself.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 8 Commissioner Kachel said this is a give and take, you want the car wash and I would like to see something go along with it and that would be some type of plantings to the front of the building to soften it and then if you have a car wash it goes along with it. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if the reason for t he special use is solely for the purpose of the car wash even though they used to wash trucks in there. Planner Carroll said yes. He said I stand corrected, both the auto body and the car wash require the special use. Dave Pfeiffer said when he drew t his drawing the drawing underneath shows more bushes. He said he did not size them out as trees and shrubs. He said they did not mind doing anything along that line as long as they can keep some form of angle for a sign on the building can be seen. He s aid as far as along their fence lines coming off the side of the building – no problem. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if they were aware of the sign ordinances regarding wall signs and free standing monument signs. Planner Garrigan said they would review the signage. Dave Pfeiffer said that is one reason they went with the white on top and blue on the bottom. He said they did not like the beige, but felt they would turn it from a beige shoebox to a white shoebox so they wanted to break it up somehow. He sai d they thought the two tone would change it. He said they would like to get away from the typical box building. Commissioner Seggebruch said he agreed with Larry. He said they did a nice job on the drawing. He said the use you are putting in there, you are going to be trying to set your building off from the industrial properties that are around or behind it so like Larry said because you do have some windows along that side of the building an awning is a good opportunity for signage but also to give yo u some shade cause that building faces west. Mick Maher said area you suggesting above the windows. Commissioner Seggebruch said that would be nice, certainly not above the bay doors because they are high. He thought over the windows would be a good c hance for signage and for sun control. He said like Larry said that will break up that long wall a little bit to get away from the box look. He said whatever you do is going to add to this building. He said it has been neglected for a long time. Commis sioner Manning said Michael you question the car wash and whether that is a permitted special use in this zoning. He asked if it was the fact that the car wash was being combined with the body shop or is it the existence of the car wash itself.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 9 Planner G arrigan said the actual special use specifically says automobile service stations, repair facilities, and car washes used in conjunction with an automobile service station. He said he believed it is consistent with the character of industrial use. Chair man Sobkoviak said service station in that context means that sells gasoline and oil. Commissioner Kachel said he believed that also. Chairman Sobkoviak said in the old days filling stations used to have 2 and 3 bays and one of them was always a car wash . Planner Garrigan said perhaps he was taking a narrow interruption but that is specifically what the special use is under general industrial zone allows. Commissioner Seggebruch asked if they were repairing and detailing cars and washing them there, th e customer is already there but possibly you are going to attract people who are going to come in just for a wash and detail or something. He said he did not envision that people are going to sit in their car out there and stack outside the building. He thought they would come in and park and he said he was assuming you are going to have some kind of waiting room or something. Commissioner Kachel said every auto body shop we have in town wash and detail cars because you have to clean them after working on them. Chairman Sobkoviak asked the number of parking spaces on the premises. Mick Maher said in the area of 40 to 50 at least. Chairman Sobkoviak asked how many parking spaces would be required for a business of that square footage. Planner Carroll said the car wash itself is one space for each two employees. Dave Pfeiffer said we are looking for 4 to 6 employees at the most. Chairman Sobkoviak said for an auto body people do not generally park because they leave their cars for service. Commi ssioner Seggebruch said be aware of 1 handicapped parking space for every 25 parking spots. Commissioner Kachel said one way to soften the building is with trees. Dave Pfeiffer said they envision a parking island that runs parallel with the building to b reak that up a little bit. He said they talked about putting in bushes and trees.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 10 Mike Maher said the rusted chain link fence in front of it was a lot of the eyesore. Commissioner Gehrke asked if we needed to pay attention to the going in and coming o ut. Planner Garrigan said that is correct. Chairman Sobkoviak said IDOT will govern the curb cuts. Commissioner Gehrke said at the last meeting it was stated there would be one curb cut for each building after it was separated. Planner Garrigan said i n the best of worlds Staff would like to see a minimum of curb cuts. He said in view of the fact that IDOT has jurisdiction over Rt. 30, we cannot asked the application to consolidate to one curb cut. Commissioner Kachel asked if IDOT might come back and give them a hard time. Planner Garrigan said the applicant has tendered a letter, IDOT has had a chance to review this and in view of the fact that there were two curb cuts IDOT stated they did not have a problem. Chuck Thomas said they spoke to IDOT an d Will County. Will County said not our problem and IDOT said it is fine. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there were any other issues that needed to be addressed. No comments. Commissioner Kachel asked if there was anything we could put in before they go to Board that we would like to see added plantings and some architectural looks to the exterior of the building with the car wash being granted. Planner Carroll said with this being a special use you are within your powers. Commissioner Kachel said he w ould like to see that added. Chairman Sobkoviak read the third stipulation. He asked Larry if he felt that was not inclusive enough. Commissioner Kachel said no cause that talks about the back portion. Chairman Sobkoviak said it does not say back. Commissioner Kachel asked if they were going to have the front enclosed. Applicants said it would be open.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 11 Commissioner Kachel said he would like to see some plantings to the front of the building. Commissioner Seggebruch said he agreed with Larry bu t not having a site plan it is hard to visualize how their parking is laid out. Commissioner Anderson said it was a matter of balancing the signage they are going to want and the visibility with getting a nice look breaking up the big building. He though t everybody wants the same thing. He said what you do not want is overgrown trees next to the building. Commissioner Kachel said he wanted to see something to soften it up a little bit and he would like to have it included as part of it. He asked Staff what they thought. Planner Carroll said it is in your … Commissioner Seggebruch asked if we could suggest they work with Staff in conjunction with their signage application. Commissioner Kachel said for the landscaping for the front of the building and any architectural and visual enhancement. He said that would be find with him. Commissioner Manning asked if the applicant had an idea of what we were talking about. Applicants replied yes. Commissioner Manning asked if we could ask them if there is a stipulation that says they have a presentation of landscaping when you take it to the Board. Commissioner Kachel said that is fine. As item number 4 work with Staff on the landscaping and architecture of the exterior and the signage as part of this going along with your getting the car wash. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if we wanted to say that the applicant should consult with Staff to determine additional plantings and signage prior to going to the Village Board. Commissioner Kachel said yes. Commis sioner Manning said why should they have to work with Staff, just put up a plan and take it to the Board. He said they seem to have an idea of what they want to do. Commissioner Seggebruch said they will have to talk with Staff regarding signage. Chai rman Sobkoviak agreed. Commissioner Manning asked if they needed signage before they went with this.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 12 Planner Garrigan said they generally do not, signage comes after approval with regards to Village Board approval. Commissioner Manning said so this pack age is what will get on the Village Board. Planner Garrigan said yes. Commissioner Manning said if you want to require they talk with Staff that is ok. Commissioner Kachel said he thought it would save them the time when they go to Village Board. Cha irman Sobkoviak said we have the fourth stipulation that the petitioner should consult with Staff regarding additional plantings and signage on the front of the building. He asked if we need to be more specific than that. Commissioner Kachel said we talk ed about the architecture but that just has to do with canopies. Chairman Sobkoviak asked the audience for comments. There were no comments. Commissioner Kachel made a motion to direct the Village attorney to draft the necessary ordinance approving a sp ecial use permit for an auto body repair facility and car wash subject to the three stipulations found in the Planner’s report and the fourth stipulation added by the Plan Commission. Seconded by Commissioner Anderson. Vote by roll call: AYE: Kachel, Se ggebruch, Gehrke, Manning, Anderson, Sobkoviak NAY: None Vote: 6 -0 Chairman Sobkoviak advised the applicant to be in touch with Staff for the next date. CASE NO: 900 -082401.SU PLAINFIELD COMMONS LOT 4 Chairman Sobkoviak said the petitioner has requeste d for deliberations and discussions on this case be continued to our next meeting being October 2 nd , 2001. CASE NO: 898 -082201.TA RECREATIONAL VEHICLES Planner Garrigan said this is a text amendment regarding the parking and storage of recreational vehic les. He said pursuant to the direction of a number of trustees of the Village Board, staff was instructed to investigate the possibility of trying to formulate a text
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 13 amendment or revelation with respect to recreational vehicles. He said currently the V illage does not incorporate any limitations, regulations with respect to parking or storage of recreational vehicles in residential districts with the exception of what is incorporated in the parking limitations of our zoning ordinances which limits any ty pe of parking facilities within five feet of the property line. He said with the exception of that one limitation to parking there is currently no regulations of recreational vehicles in the Village. He said as part of a consideration of a previous text amendment that came before this Plan Commission in June with respect to regulations of expansion of gravel driveways and establishing a maximum driveway width. He said that matter was considered by the Village Board in June of this year. He said a number of Trustees had concerns with the possibility of that proposed text amendment allowing or facilitating or encouraging the property owners to use their property for storage or parking of recreational vehicles. Staff was directed to investigate or look int o the possibility of a regulation for recreational vehicles. Staff had an opportunity to review a number of model ordinances which were provided by the American Planning Association and to review a number of how surrounding communities regulate recreation al vehicles in the Village. He said Naperville currently prohibits parking or storage of recreational vehicles in front or corner side yards. He said parking or storage of recreational vehicles are required to be in a fully enclosed structure or parked i n the rear or interior side yard. He said also any recreational vehicle that is parked in the interior side yard requires a screen of 75% opacity. He said there is an exception in regards to allowing parking of recreational vehicles over a 72 hour period for the sole purpose of loading or unloading. Planner Garrigan said with respect to the Village of Oswego. They are currently proposing or considering storage of recreational vehicles which would restrict them to side yards or rear yards and would all ow them in front yards as long as the setback is within the building line and consistent with what Naperville has done allowing for loading and unloading over a 72 hours period. Planner Garrigan said the Village of Montgomery prohibits recreational vehicl es be parked in the front driveway, limiting storage of recreational vehicles be parked in the interior side or rear yards. He said they also require that recreational vehicles be parked on an improved surface i.e. gravel, Portland cement, asphalt or some type of improve surface. Planner Garrigan said the City of Aurora prohibits any type of recreational vehicles to be parked in front driveways and limits them to side or rear yards. He said they provide the minimum setback of 6 feet from any structure. He said they require a permit for parking or storage of recreational vehicles. Planner Garrigan said based on instructions of the Village Board and some of the feelings of a number of trustees Staff believes it may be appropriate at this time to conside r this proposed text amendment and in accordance with my staff report to prohibit the parking or storage of recreational vehicles in the front or corner yards. He said it would limit the storage or parking to the interior side yard or the rear of property . He said the proposed text amendment would require a five -foot setback. He said any storage or parking of a recreational vehicle be placed on an improve surface such as concrete, asphalt or paving stones and allow recreational vehicles storage or parkin g on a temporary basis for a 72 hours
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 14 period specifically limited to loading and unloading. He said this is a proposed text amendment and Staff would suggest the motion in Staff’s report should the Plan Commission agree. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there were any comments or question from the audience. Gwen Krahn said she had a neighbor who parked a boat in their side yard right at her dining room window so pictures of every party they had showed the boat out the window. She said they are not there any more so the problem is gone. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if there was anyone on the board that owns a RV or had own one in the past? Commissioner Manning asked if there was universal understanding of what a recreational vehicle is? Chairman Sobkoviak said you probably need to have a definition of that. Planner Garrigan said there is a definition in the text amendment from the ordinances he pulled from the American Planning Association. He said there is a paragraph that is fairly broad ranging from a campe r to a trailer of snowmobiles. Chairman Sobkoviak said he thought this had not been widely notified throughout the Village. He thought if it was the room would be full of people. Commissioner Kachel said when you look at recreational vehicles, take a lo ok at boats, what about the truck that has all kinds of construction materials (a commercial truck). He said he can park out there but yet you cannot have a pop -up vehicle. He said unincorporated areas and other suburbs have things like that and it looks like we are getting into another policing state where we are going to go out checking to see who has a recreational vehicle. He did not think this was the time to be doing this. He thought we have enough other issues around this area. Chairman Sobkovia k said he was a former owner of pop -up camper, hard top trailer, and class A motor home and this would be a serious hardship if I was not able to park that thing in my driveway. He said 72 hours was not enough. He said when you own one of these things, i t is like owning another house. He said you have another water heater, refrigerator, stove, plumbing system. He said in the winter you have to winterize it and in the summer you have to summerize it. He said you do not do that in three days. Commission er Anderson said there is Rt. 59 storage. He said people park down there. Chairman Sobkoviak said when you get ready for the camping season, it take you a week to two weeks to get that thing ready to go. He said in the winter you do the reverse. He sai d it takes all day just blowing the water out of the lines and putting in antifreeze in all the plumbing.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 15 Commissioner Kachel said you may want to do some work on it. Commissioner Anderson said he did not see that being a huge problem with that, we could add an extra day to that. He thought the issue is people that put them there and do not move them and don’t move them week after week. He said he did not like the appearance of it. Commissioner Manning asked if you guys are under the instruction of the board to do this. Planner Garrigan said Staff was directed to investigate the matter and to consider. Chairman Sobkoviak said he would like to see this better publicized. He said when you get into the definitions as to what constitutes a recreational ve hicle we are going to include trailers with personal watercraft, trailers with snowmobiles, trailers with all terrain vehicles. He said we are going to be more than just pop up trailers. Commissioner Kachel said then you talk about the commercial type ve hicles that are parked in your front yard that are used on a day to day use that have mud, timbers on the back of them and it is ok to have those but not ok to have an RV. Chairman Sobkoviak said some people have small boats and some people have monster b oats. Planner Garrigan said his survey shows there is a distinction on what some communities do to regulate. Commissioner Kachel said what are we looking at here. He said we have six, twelve – I mean you are talking about thirty vehicles we have seen so far and when you mentioned this goes along with the streets and we are talking about gravel. He said Center Street we just paved, there is a section of gravel six feet long all the way along Center Street where there is no curb and there is gravel there. He said we just paved all along there, why wasn’t all that gravel torn out by the City and put in with dirt right now to make it look better. He said we are looking at things to be done but yet we have done enough to take care of some other things. Cha irman Sobkoviak said his suggestion is let’s not bury this, let us continue this and look at other facets. He said we probably are not going to be able to go through this all in one night anyway but he thought this needed to be publicized somehow so that the general public is aware of what types of vehicles we are talking about because a lot of people will not recognize a boat load of personal watercraft or a trailer load of snowmobiles as an RV. Commissioner Kachel said and the thing is 72 hours, let’s s ay you have somebody visit your house for a week and they brought something like that. He said they might not be able to get into a storage facility. Chairman Sobkoviak said he has that problem. He said he has relatives who are retired and who travel a good deal and they from time to time stop and they park in my driveway. He
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 16 said it is usually less than a week but more than 72 hours and they do not block the sidewalk however they are in front of the house. He said he has no side or back. Commissioner Kachel said quite frankly you are going to see more of that with the baby boomers retiring. He said he has a brother who is 21 years older than me and when he stays with his children, he doesn’t like to stay in their house and he stays in his RV. He hoo ks on to their electric and like his privacy. He said there are a lot of people who are going to be doing that in a few years. Chairman Sobkoviak said he saw no problem with the setback requirements. He said these things do constitute a fire hazard and wherever they are parked you do need to observe the setback requirements. Commissioner Manning said and the surface upon which they will stored. Chairman Sobkoviak said they should be parked on a hard surface, they should not be parked on the lawn. He said he had no problem with those conditions whatsoever. He said if the thing fits in your driveway what is the fun of having a boat if you can’t go out and fiddle around with it. Martin Franken said he would concur this that right there. He said he has a few neighbors, personally he does not like the way it looks when they are parked in the yard but if you had a wider driveway and had something designated for that. Chairman Sobkoviak said we have three car garages now and we are looking at limiting the driveway but they do bloom out and giving a good place to park a boat or a trailer with personal watercraft or snowmobiles. He said if you are looking for an eyesore somebody is going to have a junkie looking RV but some people have junkie looking car s. He asked what about the guy that is a plumber for a living or a brick layer and parks his truck with the ladder rack. Commissioner Anderson said when I grew up on the farm the better farmers all had nice sheds and brought their equipment in and it did not look like a junkyard. The poorer farmers just left everything out and let it rot down and it looked horrible. He said there is a difference between a nice big lot, curb, garage, wide driveway with a good looking boat out there is a much different sc enario than a boat pulled in real close to their neighbor by their dining room window. Chairman Sobkoviak said no that is where he mentioned the setback requirements. He said that should account for any type of structure. He said if the setback is 5 fee t or 15 feet or whatever then he believed that should be the controlling thing and there is a campaign to somehow legislate or regulate people who have widened their driveways and done different things to park a boats and stuff. He said if we recognize th at as a fire hazard, which he thought we might get an opinion from the Fire Protection District because they have motors and batteries and stuff like that and fuel aboard then they become a fire hazard and should be
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 17 able to prohibit the parking of those wi thin the setbacks and that might solve a whole lot of the problems. Commissioner Manning said if they put in a concrete pad, what is the setback for a concrete pad. Planner Carroll said five feet. Commissioner Manning said and the setback for the hous e is what fifteen feet. Planner Carroll said typically it is ten feet. Gwen Krahn said old houses like ours is five feet. Chairman Sobkoviak said we are looking at the current ordinances but under a PUD that could change. Planner Carroll said combined it is suppose to be twenty feet. Gwen Krahn said she agreed with fiddling with your boat out there. She said she has a new young neighbor and he fiddles with his boat all the time and that is ok. She said her husband likes cars. She said her neighbor h as been fiddling with his boat for about ten days, draining it, washing it and covering it and that is ok. Chairman Sobkoviak said generally for a boat for every hour that it is on the water you have an hour in work on land. Commissioner Kachel asked i f we had a division of inspection and services yet in town. He said Oswego has, in other words you would have to have it inspected and get a permit to park your vehicle. Commissioner Seggebruch asked if it was like a village sticker. Commissioner Kache l said that would give you control over it if it was really that bad and did not meet the requirements. Chairman Sobkoviak said he would try and regulate as little as possible. He said our world is filled with regulations and with recent events we are going to get regulated more than we want to be. Commissioner Anderson said he understands that view but a lot of our neighbors are moving away from that perhaps a little more strongly towards regulating recreational vehicles. Chairman Sobkoviak said be cause they do not own one. He said if you own one you would be a little more interested in it.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 18 Commissioner Anderson said he was coming from a totally different viewpoint that you are. He said he doesn’t own one, has never owned one and has never been a round one. He said he does not like the appearance of them when they sit there for long periods of time. He said there are both viewpoints in the community. Commissioner Kachel said he has never owned one, would have liked to have had one, but sees othe r communities and it is your property and your land and just because somebody else bought a piece of property close by and they do not like the looks of it. He said there are covenants in some of the new subdivisions where the neighbors can bring the wrat h of God down on them so they can get rid of it and let peer pressure do it. Chairman Sobkoviak said in his subdivision there is a covenant that is widely ignored. Commissioner Kachel said with some of the street ordinances we have with parking, you ca nnot even park now because of the fact that we have limited parking. He said if you have to go overboard and if it can be done with some limitation where people still have the right to do it. He said when you say you do not want it for 72 hours that is b eing pretty strong for people who have invested a lot of money. He said they may already have it bought and they may be living in their house a long time before Plainfield developed in this area and now it is like get it off there or go put it someplace a nd they cannot afford it. Commissioner Anderson said basically we are saying you can have it out there for four weeks but you have to move it once every month. Commissioner Kachel said no he is not saying that, people have already had it and they have lived and bought their property and it has been there for a long period of time. He said we are getting a lot of new people in town that want everything pristine and they want the curbs and streets and when you look at our Village we do not have those thi ngs yet. He said when we are all pristine and everything else then maybe he could see it. He said we should get our act together before we require all the residents to get their act together. Gwen Krahn said they decided to paint lines on the streets in the Village so you can only park so many and it is so hard. She said if they park on each and they do not park exactly correct it is less than a one -lane street. She asked whom you speak to about that. She said closing the street down for the buses is OK. She said some lady did not like it and got out, took the sign and threw it in her neighbor’s yard and got in and drove away. She said no one was there to control it. She said she called and said they left the sign out all night and they said what s ign. Chairman Sobkoviak said his suggestion was to continue this discussion after this is more widely publicized. He said he thought there would be more interest from the general public. He said he did not know how we could publicize it. Commissioner K achel said we could bring it up in the Enterprise that there is going to be a meeting.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 19 Chairman Sobkoviak said he was hoping a reporter would be there. Gwen Krahn said she would tell the Library Board. Planner Carroll said he would contact a reporter. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if we still have the Village channel and put it on the Internet. Commissioner Kachel said to make a notation to call all the papers to make note there is going to be a meeting at the next Plan Commission meeting in relation to the parking of recreational vehicles. Commissioner Kachel said maybe we will get feedback as to what they would like to have because we have different communities and each one is doing it a little differently. Chairman Sobkoviak said he remembered when Flos smoor made it illegal to park your pickup truck in front of your house and it went to the Illinois Supreme Court. Commissioner Manning said if there is case law. Planner Garrigan said there is case law supporting regulation of recreational vehicles. Co mmissioner Manning said the only issue here is getting them off the driveway. He said if you say they cannot have them on the driveway except for a period of time then you have to go into the regulation of where you can have them. He said if you leave th em on the driveway then there is no issue. Chairman Sobkoviak said he did not see a problem with them in the driveway as long as you meet the setbacks. Gwen Krahn said not by my windows. Commissioner Kachel said a lot of people are going to have a lot o f different issues. Commissioner Anderson said require them in the driveway. Commissioner Kachel said that was a good idea. Commissioner Manning said where else would you put them. Commissioner Anderson said they are putting them on the side of the bui lding closer to your neighbor. Chairman Sobkoviak said he wants to see them on a hard surface or driveway or whatever your driveway is. If you have a gravel drive then on gravel, if you have a concrete driveway then it has to be on concrete.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 20 Chairman Sobkoviak asked what happened to the discussion we had on driveways. Planner Carroll said it went to Village Board and went off and got splintered. Commissioner Kachel said going along with Center Street, why are we black topping roadways with all the gravel off to the side of them. He said why don’t we get a sidewalk. Commissioner Manning said we can say our recommendation is that it has to be parked on a hard surface and observe the setbacks. Chairman Sobkoviak said it is hard to separate the ar eas. He asked for a motion to continue the discussion on the parking of recreational vehicles to a later meeting being October 2 nd . Commissioner Anderson made the motion to continue the discussion on the parking of recreational vehicles to our October 2 n d meeting. Seconded by Commissioner Kachel. Vote by roll call: Aye: Kachel, Seggebruch, Gehrke, Manning, Anderson, Sobkoviak Nay: None Motion carried by vote 6 -0. Discussion: Commissioner Kachel said he did not know that many Villages that build a p ark and then build the Village Hall. He said we have the pallet plant across the way and we need sidewalks here in town and we have a Wallin Woods detention pond that looks better than any detention pond already. He asked why this was going through this way. He asked if it would be better to put the money towards something like that and when you build the Village Hall incorporate it all together rather than build a Village Park right now. He said that is his opinion. Planner Carroll said the new Villag e Hall is suppose to break ground next year. Commissioner Kachel asked why put in a park before Village Hall. He said we are the Planning Commission and we should be able to put in. He said with Renwick Road, I talked with the Township and before they t old us we had nothing to do with the Plan Commission with Renwick Road. He said that no other governmental bodies would do anything and right now all the governmental bodies are working with it. He said Renwick Road is not policed in force right now. He said there are kids walking back and forth and it is in the Township. He said if they took that road over with the Village, which they could do like they took Lockport Street – they could put a sidewalk out in that area and they could also issue tickets.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 21 Commissioner Kachel said remember 119 th Street and 143 rd Street and we spent Two Hundred Fifty Thousand Dollars to do that study and they said 119 th might be a truck and 135 th might be a truck route and we spend all that money on 143 rd . He said if you g o around Indianapolis and DC or any other community, if they have said there is going to be a truck route and it is posted future truck route and usually a future truck route goes in there. He said this is what you see on 119 th Street. He said he has ne ver seen two truck routes in any large community. Commissioner Anderson said he looked at the bridges as he came in tonight and thought they looked good. Commissioner Kachel said why not buy the pallet factory for a million dollars and have one large p ark. Chairman Sobkoviak said it is not worth it. Commissioner Kachel said if you see things happening in the community that are not quite right or not going the way they should we should be able to voice our opinion here to the Board just as well as anyb ody else. Commissioner Manning agreed but we do not have a vehicle to do that. He said we tend to toss these ideas around – is there a vehicle that would assure that thoughts were presented to the Board. Planner Carroll said the best way is to make a mo tion that the Plan Commission feels this way or is looking for this type of answer. He said then it would go on the Village Board agenda. He thought it would be a discussion item under the Community Development Director’s report. Chairman Sobkoviak said there is a portion of the agenda that they never get to and one of the things is all the stuff that Staff has on their minds that gets put off. Planner Carroll said a motion from the Plan Commission where 6 or 7 members felt this way is the best way. Co mmissioner Kachel made a motion that we have a planning session at the end of our planning meeting for the future growth of Plainfield for any ideas that we may have to be passed on to the Board for them to look at and review and make comment back to us. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if this would be open -ended. Commissioner Kachel said he could limit it to a certain amount of time say ten minutes at a time. Commissioner Manning said it looks like it is somewhat fruitless.
PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES September 18, 2001 Page 22 Planner Carroll said it would go to the Board and it would get considered. Commissioner Kachel asked if we would get response back from them. Planner Carroll said Jim would tell him what when on and he would relay it to you. Commissioner Kachel made a motion that we do such. Chairman Sobkoviak asked if anyone disagreed with this. Response was no. Chairman Sobkoviak directed Madame Secretary that at end of every agenda add general topics for discussion and any Plan Commissioner that has something can bring it up. He said understand w e do not want this to last no more than about ten minutes. Commissioner Manning said if someone wants to bring something up they should have a recommended motion also rather than to try to work it out at the meeting. Planner Carroll agreed. Chairman Sob koviak adjourned the meeting. Meeting Adjourned: 8:45 p.m. Merrilee Eighner