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HomeMy Public PortalAbout1992-02-04 PC minutesPLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION DATE: February 4,1992 AT: Village Hall COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chairman Sobkoviak, D. Norris, W. Schremp, H. Bayer, A. Consola, .M. Krippel, EX-OFFICIO PRESENT: M. Gehrke, J. Ray, G. Krahn, J. Eichelberger ALSO PRESENT: P. J. Waldock, Village Planner S. Hart, Secretary J. Djerf, Village Engineer Chairman Sobkoviak called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Roll call was taken. R. Zimmerman, K. Hummel, and G. Bott were absent. There being no additions or corrections, Chairman Sobkoviak declared the minutes of January 21, 1992 approved. NEW BUSINESS: CASE NO. 336-011592 PP REQUEST: Preliminary Plat Approval for River View Estates. LOCATION: Along the west side of Naperville Plainfield Road, north of Mill Street, south of the cemetery. APPLICANT: Mark Soave, Owner. Thomas Grant, Attorney. CURRENT ZONING: Residence A, Single-Family Residential. IVE PLAN: Low Density Residential. P. Waldock summarized his report as follows: The subject site in this case is approximately a 23.2 acre parcel, located along Naperville, Plainfield Road. The site is commonly known as the Horse Farm. The site is vacant at this time. It has been used as horse pasture. The property is impacted by both flood way and flood fringe. The property is between Naperville- Plainfield Road and the west branch of the DuPage River. Sewer and water is available to the site via extensions which are now being constructed by Lakelands Corporation. A southern extension from the sanitary sewer easement will be required to complete the access for sanitary sewer to the site. However the entire frontage is served by Village water mains. PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES February 4, 1992 Page 2 The plat as proposed would create seven single residential family lots, and further defines an existing industrial area on the southern portion of the site. That is an industrial zoning area that the applicants had rezoned a few years ago. No development exists on that industrial lot however, it does surround an existing industrial building. Grading plans indicate house pads are to be established at a depth of 100 feet from the West side of Naperville /Plainfield Road right- of-way. Lots 2 through 7 will have their building pads grouped together, lot 8 is located in the north portion of that parcel, lots 7 and 8 are 5 acre tracts, both would have one single family home permitted on them, with no further development proposed or allowed. Development plans do not indicate any floodway encroachment by this development. The development is existing within the floodway fringe, however and therefore flood hazard development standards would apply to this site. That means for any fill that the developer brings in, he must compensate for it by a ratio of 1.5 to 1. So every cubic yard of fill, equals one and a half cubic yards of compensatory storage. None of these house pads provide basement locations. For example, flood hazard regulations would prevent a basement from being established on any of these house sites. Houses would be required to be elevated to two feet above the base flood elevation and any foundations would need to be a build through type, so water can get under the foundation, pressure equalize, and evacuate. In Staff's analysis, the preliminary plat suggest a very low density single-family residential development. Net density for this project is calculated as .51 units per acre. Sufficient land area appears to be available for compensatory storage. However, calculations to verify that have not been provided. Compensatory storage must be provided at the elevations where fill is occurring. For example if they are filling between the ten year storm level and the 100 year storm level, that is the area where they must provide the compensatory storage. In terms of zoning compliance, the subdivision meets or exceeds the zoning ordinance standards for subdivisions within the village. Minimum lot widths are 100 feet, for lots 3, 4, and 5. Lots 2 and 6 are 160 feet, and lots 7 and 8 are each over 800 feet. This would compare to the village minimum standards of 85 feet. All lots are in access of 30,000 square feet. In examining the building pads provided on the development plans, it appears there is sufficient area to meet bulk area requirements for minimum building sites. Minimum size ranch style home by Village ordinance would be 1,300 square feet. There is plenty of room to accommodate a footprint for that size home, within these building pad areas. PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES February 4, 1992 Page 3 Based on this analysis, compliance with all Village developmental regulations including flood plain development regulations, subdivision regulations, and zoning ordinances would be anticipated for this project. It should be noted that not enough information is available tonight to make a final judgement on this issue. Therefore, we recommend that this item be tabled until compensatory storage materials are provided and shown to comply with Village regulations. Tonight, we are basically interested in hearing neighbors concerns and comments with regard to this subdivision that is basically the purpose of the meeting. The Village Engineer is present. John do you have anything to present tonight. J. DJERF: Nothing formal, I must concur with Pete. The utilities are acceptable. The grading plan once again does not meet the requirements as it is presented at this time. In order to meet those compensatory storage requirements, it may alter the number of building sites and therefore the number of lots that may be possible. We feel that they should be developed more fully before the preliminary plat should be approved. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Is the petitioner or his representative here? T. GRANT: Yes, Attorney Tom Grant, from Yorkville, Illinois, I represent Mark Soave, the petitioner, who is also here ready to answer any questions. I want to thank Pete for the presentation, he summarized what I was going to say. I have been with Mark from the time he acquired this property. We were before the Planning Commission two or three years ago. At that time we were requesting that 150 feet of the south end of the property be zoned from Residential to I -1 classification, to expand that business or industrial area at the south end. That request was granted, at that time there were neighbors present, who were concerned as to whether or not there would be further industrial development along that land, and we indicated to them at that time that we intended to develop that property for residential purposes. We share the conclusion with Pete and the Engineer, that it is not obviously ready to go to night. We recognize that there is additional engineering that needs to be done on site. We also need to talk to the Park District to find out what they might want done with any portion of this property. Whether they want land or cash, or dedication or donation. Mark, you met with the Park District this afternoon, you can report what you discussed. M. SOAVE: We talked about a few things. Whether they wanted that southern part, the frontage down by Rt. 59. If they wanted to use that area there is a real narrow area that can be used for an entrance to a park. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Is that right along side the tracks? That dirt track? PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES February 4, 1992 Page 4 M. SOAVE: Right. What is used for the fire lane. We could put picnic tables there or a ball diamond, or I told them if they wanted, we would do the park donation in cash or land. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Is there any one here from the Park District? No? Thank you, Mark. At this time we will open up the meeting to questions from the audience. Would you please state your name for the record when you speak. I would like to remind everyone to please sign in on the sign-in sheet so we have a record of who is here tonight. M. RASKE: I have a question about the 23 acres. Is that part of the flood plain, and if so, how many of those acres are considered usable? P. WALDOCK: The gross property area is 23.2 acres. The unusable portion is that which is beyond the flood fringe within the flood way area. We don't have a calculation on exactly what those acreage are. L. PUTNEY: I would like to make sure that the Planning Commission understands how much of that land floods. I live directly across the street. I don't know if you consider a ten year or twenty-five year, or what you consider a normal flood situation, but that whole section floods, almost to the road. Since I have been living here. Obviously this is not an objectionable plat lay out, with the few lots, and the size of the houses. But that area does flood. it has and it will again. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Do you have any rebuttal, Mr. Grant? T. GRANT: We need to get to our final engineering. We recognize the fact that we are right up against the flood fringe and the flood way. It is our conclusion at this point that there are building pads for each of those lots upon which single family home can be built, out of the flood zone. M. SOAVE: We have a little strip of build able property that runs all the way across the front of that property. It is very narrow. What we are doing by doing compensatory storage, we are taking that thin strip and we are cutting it out and bringing it to the back of the building pads. Between lots 6 and 7, none of that is build able. All of that is flood plain. It is very close to Naperville Plainfield Road. PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES r February 4, 1992 Page 5 J. DJERF: I want to shed a little light on the flood plain. They have identified correctly the flood plain elevation, which is 607, very close to Naperville- Plainfield Road. They can build on the fringe, between the fringe and the road. The road is lower than the elevation of the flood area. There is additionally a floodway which they may not build in, in any circumstances. It is back 100 to 150 feet from Naperville- Plainfield Road. The area from the flood way to the flood limit is an area where they can re- arrange dirt as long as they meet certain requirements. They plan to carve out areas of that and use that as fill where they plan to build the houses. P. WALDOCK; The Village has very strict regulations for construction in that area. L. SMITH: Mr. Putney touched base on the exact point I want to make, is no matter how hypothetical the possibility of twenty -five or thirty or hundred year flood are, the water does come up to the that elevation. That land mentioned for the Park District, floods every spring. P. PRICE: What ever happened to the industrial portion? P. WALDOCK: It is still there. P. PRICE: They never did anything. Is this what will happen with this subdivision? M. SOAVE: We still do have the industrial piece of ground, and we would still like to build on it. We are waiting to finish up the subdivision, and that will free up funds to do that. P. WALDOCK: I can't speak for Mr. Soave, but, often what delays projects is lack of sewer and water. The site is not served by sanitary sewer, I suspect that, that was a delaying factor in getting construction going. M. SOAVE: The sewer is in part of the way down, then it crosses an easement that goes across to the west. The line has not been extended to the south property line yet, we have a contractual arrangement with the developer to the north to do that. There will be a joint agreement between, ourselves, the Village, and the other developer. C. RUSS: I live halfway through the middle of the big block. I have two questions. One, we have lived here since 1962, and during the early years, I was planting trees all up and down that road. Which when they put the sewer in, they promptly came through and cut down all of those trees I had planted, up and down the road. is anyone going to be responsible for replacing them? PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES February 4, 1992 Page 6 CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Did you plant them on the right-of-way, Sir? C. RUSS: I planted them three yards inside of where they dug the pipe, but they had to cut them down. They were inside the fence line of the existing horse pasture. I worked for the Veterinarian all those years. I planted trees just inside the fence, I'd say 4 lots up and 4 lots down. They sawed them all off flush with the ground'. P. WALDOCK: I would be glad to answer that question. The subdivision regulations do require trees, one per lot. That would be in effect here. Lots 7 and 8 will require more trees to replace the esthetics of what was there. That is the extent of what the Village regulations are. Perhaps Mr. Soave has a different plan. C. RUSS: The other comment I have is, that pen held livestock, for many years. The parasite content of that dirt is going to be very high. Something will have to be done to decontaminate it before children play there. So that they won't get disease. C. NELSON: I live next door to Chris, it seems to me when they took all the vegetation out of there, that hedgerow of trees that helped keep back some of the flood water. Now more of the water will come up toward our house and the street, because there is very little vegetation there. We have lived here three years, and I have seen the water come up to the street. And now without all that vegetation to absorb some of water, I wonder how far the water will come. I don't see how you can put houses there. R. NELSON: They have said they are going to take fill from the short strip there. I don't see how they can disturb the flood plain, by taking fill and moving it down further the other way. M. SOAVE: We will not be touching the flood plain at all. P. WALDOCK: You mean the flood fringe, the entire project is in the flood plain, I think you mean the flood way. M. SOAVE: The flood way, there are two lines drawn by the state, one is the flood way, and one the flood fringe. We won't be touching the flood way at all. Which has a ten, twenty, hundred year line on it, we won't be working in that area at all. R. NELSON: I miss understood then, I thought you were taking fill from that area. M. SOAVE: There is a thin strip that is still build able. In some areas it is zero, some ten feet wide, and some fifteen or twenty foot. We will be working in that little strip. ............. .. PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES February 4, 1992 Page 7 P. WALDOCK: Perhaps I can give that question a shot. It is important so as not to displace the flood waters after the fill is placed. To provide compensatory storage, what that means, is if a developer on this site were to simply bring in truck loads and truck loads of fill from other places, and level it out and build a house, flood water will be displaced, unless there is compensation in storage. So what State, Federal and Village requirements provide is that in this case they have to compensate at 1.5 to 1, so for every teaspoon of dirt you bring in, you have to take out a teaspoon and a half. That is where it is important for them to actually remove their high ground to store, so that they can use that elevation somewhere else. That is how they prevent water from being pushed over across the river on to an adjoining property. M. SOAVE: When Pete says bring in, we are not going to bring in fill. We are going to move fill. If we fill a yard, we have to move a yard and a half. We are not going to bring any dirt in from another site. We will just move dirt on site. R. NELSON: The next question I want to ask, What price home are you figuring might go in there? M. SOAVE: I am figuring on the high end, $250,000 or $200,000. R. NELSON: May I ask one other question? Why would you want to put that kind of money down on a piece of property like that? The chances of flood, the noise, the industrial I don't understand it. G. MAGRUDER: I have the brick house next to the horse pasture (subject property). I am a naturalist. I pay close attention to what is going on with the river area. I would say that my back property floods at least eight time a year. It does not only flood in the spring, folks, it floods in July. One of the worst floods was in July. The dip that runs through the pasture, (the race) that part of the property, that is where the water passes through even before it floods over the bank of the river. It goes through my back yard, through the middle section. I have a great concern about that path being changed, since it is a natural path. When I first moved here, in the summer, one could easily walk across the river and the water was ankle high. As Naperville has built up, the water is always higher, all year long. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Does anyone else have any questions or comment to make of the Planner or the Developer? Since there are none who want to question, the portion of the meeting for public comment is now closed. Do any of the commissioners have any questions of the Planner or the Developer? M. KRIPPEL: There has been some grading out there already hasn't there? PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES February 4, 1992 Page 8 M. SOAVE: We did a lot of clean up there. M. KRIPPEL: Have you changed the topography. M. SOAVE: No not at all, and the ditch looks cleaner. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: The chair would suggest a motion to postpone the remainder of the deliberations of this project until the builder can complete the compensatory storage calculations and the associated design criteria that were asked for, by the Planner. W. SCHEMPF: I move to postpone the remainder of the deliberations of this project until the builder can complete the compensatory storage calculations and the associated design criteria that were asked for by the Planner. M. KRIPPEL: Second. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: The motion has been made and seconded to postpone the completion of this preliminary plat, until the developer is able to complete compensatory storage calculations, and associated design criteria, and submit them to our engineer. Roll call vote: M. Krippel, yes; D. Norris, yes; Schempf, yes; Bayer, yes; Consola, yes; Sobkoviak, yes. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: The motion is carried 6, yes; 0, no. We will take this up again, March 3, 1992, Plan commission meeting. OLD BUSINESS: CASE NO. 292-2691.TA TRI-LEVEL DEFINITION P. WALDOCK: We have now completed the Text Amendment, which provides the definitions for one and a half story dwellings. There was felt to be a need for this type of regulation, because the ordinance regulates only one story and two story dwellings. Thus the Text Amendment before us today. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Does anyone have any questions or comments on this? M. KRIPPEL: At the bottom of the first page, you specify the ceiling height at 8 feet, in the building code, is that eight or is that seven and a half as the minimum? P. WALDOCK: That eight foot comes from the standard set by the bulk regulation for a one story or a two story. If we look at a one story ranch style house, bulk requirements for that house say eight feet. And this is comparative to that. PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES February 4, 1992 Page 9 CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Do we need to approve the whole ordinance, Pete? P. WALDOCK: Yes, I recommend that the Plan Commission approve this Text Amendment Ordinance through its recommendation to the Village Board, and pass it on for their adoption. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Is everyone satisfied with the finished product? A. CONSOLA: What we have here Pete, is a tri-level is minimum 1,500 square foot. P. WALDOCK: Yes. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: The chair will entertain a motion to approve this Text Amendment as presented. A. CONSOLA: I make a motion that we accept this text amendment as presented. D. NORRIS: Second. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: A motion has been made and seconded to approve this Text Amendment Case No. 292-3691 TA. Roll Call Vote: M. Krippel, yes; D. Norris, yes; W. Schempf, yes; H. Bayer, yes; A. Consola, yes, Sobkoviak, yes. CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Motion is carried 6 yes, 0 no. Adjourn 8:15. Sharon Hart, Secretary