HomeMy Public PortalAbout1992-02-04 PC minutesPLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION
DATE: February 4,1992 AT: Village Hall
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chairman Sobkoviak, D. Norris,
W. Schremp, H. Bayer, A. Consola,
.M. Krippel,
EX-OFFICIO PRESENT: M. Gehrke, J. Ray, G. Krahn,
J. Eichelberger
ALSO PRESENT: P. J. Waldock, Village Planner
S. Hart, Secretary
J. Djerf, Village Engineer
Chairman Sobkoviak called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Roll
call was taken. R. Zimmerman, K. Hummel, and G. Bott were absent.
There being no additions or corrections, Chairman Sobkoviak
declared the minutes of January 21, 1992 approved.
NEW BUSINESS: CASE NO. 336-011592 PP
REQUEST: Preliminary Plat Approval for River View Estates.
LOCATION: Along the west side of Naperville Plainfield Road,
north of Mill Street, south of the cemetery.
APPLICANT: Mark Soave, Owner.
Thomas Grant, Attorney.
CURRENT ZONING: Residence A, Single-Family Residential.
IVE PLAN: Low Density Residential.
P. Waldock summarized his report as follows:
The subject site in this case is approximately a 23.2 acre parcel,
located along Naperville, Plainfield Road. The site is commonly
known as the Horse Farm. The site is vacant at this time. It has
been used as horse pasture. The property is impacted by both flood
way and flood fringe. The property is between Naperville-
Plainfield Road and the west branch of the DuPage River. Sewer and
water is available to the site via extensions which are now being
constructed by Lakelands Corporation. A southern extension from
the sanitary sewer easement will be required to complete the access
for sanitary sewer to the site. However the entire frontage is
served by Village water mains.
PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES
February 4, 1992
Page 2
The plat as proposed would create seven single residential family
lots, and further defines an existing industrial area on the
southern portion of the site.
That is an industrial zoning area that the applicants had rezoned
a few years ago. No development exists on that industrial lot
however, it does surround an existing industrial building.
Grading plans indicate house pads are to be established at a depth
of 100 feet from the West side of Naperville /Plainfield Road right-
of-way. Lots 2 through 7 will have their building pads grouped
together, lot 8 is located in the north portion of that parcel,
lots 7 and 8 are 5 acre tracts, both would have one single family
home permitted on them, with no further development proposed or
allowed. Development plans do not indicate any floodway
encroachment by this development. The development is existing
within the floodway fringe, however and therefore flood hazard
development standards would apply to this site. That means for any
fill that the developer brings in, he must compensate for it by a
ratio of 1.5 to 1. So every cubic yard of fill, equals one and a
half cubic yards of compensatory storage.
None of these house pads provide basement locations. For example,
flood hazard regulations would prevent a basement from being
established on any of these house sites. Houses would be required
to be elevated to two feet above the base flood elevation and any
foundations would need to be a build through type, so water can
get under the foundation, pressure equalize, and evacuate.
In Staff's analysis, the preliminary plat suggest a very low
density single-family residential development. Net density for
this project is calculated as .51 units per acre. Sufficient land
area appears to be available for compensatory storage. However,
calculations to verify that have not been provided. Compensatory
storage must be provided at the elevations where fill is occurring.
For example if they are filling between the ten year storm level
and the 100 year storm level, that is the area where they must
provide the compensatory storage.
In terms of zoning compliance, the subdivision meets or exceeds
the zoning ordinance standards for subdivisions within the village.
Minimum lot widths are 100 feet, for lots 3, 4, and 5. Lots 2 and
6 are 160 feet, and lots 7 and 8 are each over 800 feet. This
would compare to the village minimum standards of 85 feet. All
lots are in access of 30,000 square feet. In examining the
building pads provided on the development plans, it appears there
is sufficient area to meet bulk area requirements for minimum
building sites. Minimum size ranch style home by Village ordinance
would be 1,300 square feet. There is plenty of room to accommodate
a footprint for that size home, within these building pad areas.
PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES
February 4, 1992
Page 3
Based on this analysis, compliance with all Village developmental
regulations including flood plain development regulations, subdivision
regulations, and zoning ordinances would be anticipated for this
project. It should be noted that not enough information is available
tonight to make a final judgement on this issue. Therefore, we
recommend that this item be tabled until compensatory storage
materials are provided and shown to comply with Village regulations.
Tonight, we are basically interested in hearing neighbors concerns and
comments with regard to this subdivision that is basically the purpose
of the meeting. The Village Engineer is present. John do you have
anything to present tonight.
J. DJERF: Nothing formal, I must concur with Pete. The utilities are
acceptable. The grading plan once again does not meet the
requirements as it is presented at this time. In order to meet those
compensatory storage requirements, it may alter the number of building
sites and therefore the number of lots that may be possible. We feel
that they should be developed more fully before the preliminary plat
should be approved.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Is the petitioner or his representative here?
T. GRANT: Yes, Attorney Tom Grant, from Yorkville, Illinois, I
represent Mark Soave, the petitioner, who is also here ready to answer
any questions. I want to thank Pete for the presentation, he
summarized what I was going to say. I have been with Mark from the
time he acquired this property. We were before the Planning
Commission two or three years ago. At that time we were requesting
that 150 feet of the south end of the property be zoned from
Residential to I -1 classification, to expand that business or
industrial area at the south end. That request was granted, at that
time there were neighbors present, who were concerned as to whether
or not there would be further industrial development along that land,
and we indicated to them at that time that we intended to develop that
property for residential purposes. We share the conclusion with Pete
and the Engineer, that it is not obviously ready to go to night. We
recognize that there is additional engineering that needs to be done
on site. We also need to talk to the Park District to find out what
they might want done with any portion of this property. Whether they
want land or cash, or dedication or donation. Mark, you met with the
Park District this afternoon, you can report what you discussed.
M. SOAVE: We talked about a few things. Whether they wanted that
southern part, the frontage down by Rt. 59. If they wanted to use
that area there is a real narrow area that can be used for an entrance
to a park.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Is that right along side the tracks? That dirt
track?
PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES
February 4, 1992
Page 4
M. SOAVE: Right. What is used for the fire lane. We could put
picnic tables there or a ball diamond, or I told them if they
wanted, we would do the park donation in cash or land.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Is there any one here from the Park District?
No? Thank you, Mark. At this time we will open up the meeting to
questions from the audience. Would you please state your name for
the record when you speak. I would like to remind everyone to
please sign in on the sign-in sheet so we have a record of who is
here tonight.
M. RASKE: I have a question about the 23 acres. Is that part of
the flood plain, and if so, how many of those acres are considered
usable?
P. WALDOCK: The gross property area is 23.2 acres. The unusable
portion is that which is beyond the flood fringe within the flood
way area. We don't have a calculation on exactly what those
acreage are.
L. PUTNEY: I would like to make sure that the Planning Commission
understands how much of that land floods. I live directly across
the street. I don't know if you consider a ten year or twenty-five
year, or what you consider a normal flood situation, but that whole
section floods, almost to the road. Since I have been living here.
Obviously this is not an objectionable plat lay out, with the few
lots, and the size of the houses. But that area does flood. it
has and it will again.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Do you have any rebuttal, Mr. Grant?
T. GRANT: We need to get to our final engineering. We recognize
the fact that we are right up against the flood fringe and the
flood way. It is our conclusion at this point that there are
building pads for each of those lots upon which single family home
can be built, out of the flood zone.
M. SOAVE: We have a little strip of build able property that runs
all the way across the front of that property. It is very narrow.
What we are doing by doing compensatory storage, we are taking that
thin strip and we are cutting it out and bringing it to the back
of the building pads. Between lots 6 and 7, none of that is build
able. All of that is flood plain. It is very close to Naperville
Plainfield Road.
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Page 5
J. DJERF: I want to shed a little light on the flood plain. They
have identified correctly the flood plain elevation, which is 607,
very close to Naperville- Plainfield Road. They can build on the
fringe, between the fringe and the road. The road is lower than
the elevation of the flood area. There is additionally a floodway
which they may not build in, in any circumstances. It is back 100
to 150 feet from Naperville- Plainfield Road. The area from the
flood way to the flood limit is an area where they can re- arrange
dirt as long as they meet certain requirements. They plan to carve
out areas of that and use that as fill where they plan to build the
houses.
P. WALDOCK; The Village has very strict regulations for
construction in that area.
L. SMITH: Mr. Putney touched base on the exact point I want to
make, is no matter how hypothetical the possibility of twenty -five
or thirty or hundred year flood are, the water does come up to the
that elevation. That land mentioned for the Park District, floods
every spring.
P. PRICE: What ever happened to the industrial portion?
P. WALDOCK: It is still there.
P. PRICE: They never did anything. Is this what will happen with
this subdivision?
M. SOAVE: We still do have the industrial piece of ground, and we
would still like to build on it. We are waiting to finish up the
subdivision, and that will free up funds to do that.
P. WALDOCK: I can't speak for Mr. Soave, but, often what delays
projects is lack of sewer and water. The site is not served by
sanitary sewer, I suspect that, that was a delaying factor in
getting construction going.
M. SOAVE: The sewer is in part of the way down, then it crosses
an easement that goes across to the west. The line has not been
extended to the south property line yet, we have a contractual
arrangement with the developer to the north to do that. There
will be a joint agreement between, ourselves, the Village, and the
other developer.
C. RUSS: I live halfway through the middle of the big block. I
have two questions. One, we have lived here since 1962, and during
the early years, I was planting trees all up and down that road.
Which when they put the sewer in, they promptly came through and
cut down all of those trees I had planted, up and down the road.
is anyone going to be responsible for replacing them?
PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES
February 4, 1992
Page 6
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Did you plant them on the right-of-way, Sir?
C. RUSS: I planted them three yards inside of where they dug the
pipe, but they had to cut them down. They were inside the fence
line of the existing horse pasture. I worked for the Veterinarian
all those years. I planted trees just inside the fence, I'd say
4 lots up and 4 lots down. They sawed them all off flush with the
ground'.
P. WALDOCK: I would be glad to answer that question. The
subdivision regulations do require trees, one per lot. That would
be in effect here. Lots 7 and 8 will require more trees to replace
the esthetics of what was there. That is the extent of what the
Village regulations are. Perhaps Mr. Soave has a different plan.
C. RUSS: The other comment I have is, that pen held livestock, for
many years. The parasite content of that dirt is going to be very
high. Something will have to be done to decontaminate it before
children play there. So that they won't get disease.
C. NELSON: I live next door to Chris, it seems to me when they
took all the vegetation out of there, that hedgerow of trees that
helped keep back some of the flood water. Now more of the water
will come up toward our house and the street, because there is very
little vegetation there. We have lived here three years, and I
have seen the water come up to the street. And now without all
that vegetation to absorb some of water, I wonder how far the water
will come. I don't see how you can put houses there.
R. NELSON: They have said they are going to take fill from the
short strip there. I don't see how they can disturb the flood
plain, by taking fill and moving it down further the other way.
M. SOAVE: We will not be touching the flood plain at all.
P. WALDOCK: You mean the flood fringe, the entire project is in
the flood plain, I think you mean the flood way.
M. SOAVE: The flood way, there are two lines drawn by the state,
one is the flood way, and one the flood fringe. We won't be
touching the flood way at all. Which has a ten, twenty, hundred
year line on it, we won't be working in that area at all.
R. NELSON: I miss understood then, I thought you were taking fill
from that area.
M. SOAVE: There is a thin strip that is still build able. In some
areas it is zero, some ten feet wide, and some fifteen or twenty
foot. We will be working in that little strip.
............. ..
PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES
February 4, 1992
Page 7
P. WALDOCK: Perhaps I can give that question a shot. It is
important so as not to displace the flood waters after the fill is
placed. To provide compensatory storage, what that means, is if
a developer on this site were to simply bring in truck loads and
truck loads of fill from other places, and level it out and build
a house, flood water will be displaced, unless there is
compensation in storage. So what State, Federal and Village
requirements provide is that in this case they have to compensate
at 1.5 to 1, so for every teaspoon of dirt you bring in, you have
to take out a teaspoon and a half. That is where it is important
for them to actually remove their high ground to store, so that
they can use that elevation somewhere else. That is how they
prevent water from being pushed over across the river on to an
adjoining property.
M. SOAVE: When Pete says bring in, we are not going to bring in
fill. We are going to move fill. If we fill a yard, we have to
move a yard and a half. We are not going to bring any dirt in from
another site. We will just move dirt on site.
R. NELSON: The next question I want to ask, What price home are
you figuring might go in there?
M. SOAVE: I am figuring on the high end, $250,000 or $200,000.
R. NELSON: May I ask one other question? Why would you want to
put that kind of money down on a piece of property like that? The
chances of flood, the noise, the industrial I don't understand it.
G. MAGRUDER: I have the brick house next to the horse pasture
(subject property). I am a naturalist. I pay close attention to
what is going on with the river area. I would say that my back
property floods at least eight time a year. It does not only flood
in the spring, folks, it floods in July. One of the worst floods
was in July. The dip that runs through the pasture, (the race)
that part of the property, that is where the water passes through
even before it floods over the bank of the river. It goes through
my back yard, through the middle section. I have a great concern
about that path being changed, since it is a natural path. When
I first moved here, in the summer, one could easily walk across the
river and the water was ankle high. As Naperville has built up,
the water is always higher, all year long.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Does anyone else have any questions or comment
to make of the Planner or the Developer? Since there are none who
want to question, the portion of the meeting for public comment
is now closed. Do any of the commissioners have any questions of
the Planner or the Developer?
M. KRIPPEL: There has been some grading out there already hasn't
there?
PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES
February 4, 1992
Page 8
M. SOAVE: We did a lot of clean up there.
M. KRIPPEL: Have you changed the topography.
M. SOAVE: No not at all, and the ditch looks cleaner.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: The chair would suggest a motion to postpone
the remainder of the deliberations of this project until the
builder can complete the compensatory storage calculations and the
associated design criteria that were asked for, by the Planner.
W. SCHEMPF: I move to postpone the remainder of the deliberations
of this project until the builder can complete the compensatory
storage calculations and the associated design criteria that were
asked for by the Planner.
M. KRIPPEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: The motion has been made and seconded to
postpone the completion of this preliminary plat, until the
developer is able to complete compensatory storage calculations,
and associated design criteria, and submit them to our engineer.
Roll call vote: M. Krippel, yes; D. Norris, yes; Schempf, yes;
Bayer, yes; Consola, yes; Sobkoviak, yes.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: The motion is carried 6, yes; 0, no. We will
take this up again, March 3, 1992, Plan commission meeting.
OLD BUSINESS: CASE NO. 292-2691.TA
TRI-LEVEL DEFINITION
P. WALDOCK: We have now completed the Text Amendment, which
provides the definitions for one and a half story dwellings. There
was felt to be a need for this type of regulation, because the
ordinance regulates only one story and two story dwellings. Thus
the Text Amendment before us today.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Does anyone have any questions or comments on
this?
M. KRIPPEL: At the bottom of the first page, you specify the
ceiling height at 8 feet, in the building code, is that eight or
is that seven and a half as the minimum?
P. WALDOCK: That eight foot comes from the standard set by the
bulk regulation for a one story or a two story. If we look at a
one story ranch style house, bulk requirements for that house say
eight feet. And this is comparative to that.
PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES
February 4, 1992
Page 9
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Do we need to approve the whole ordinance,
Pete?
P. WALDOCK: Yes, I recommend that the Plan Commission approve this
Text Amendment Ordinance through its recommendation to the Village
Board, and pass it on for their adoption.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Is everyone satisfied with the finished
product?
A. CONSOLA: What we have here Pete, is a tri-level is minimum
1,500 square foot.
P. WALDOCK: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: The chair will entertain a motion to approve
this Text Amendment as presented.
A. CONSOLA: I make a motion that we accept this text amendment as
presented.
D. NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: A motion has been made and seconded to approve
this Text Amendment Case No. 292-3691 TA.
Roll Call Vote: M. Krippel, yes; D. Norris, yes; W. Schempf, yes;
H. Bayer, yes; A. Consola, yes, Sobkoviak, yes.
CHAIRMAN SOBKOVIAK: Motion is carried 6 yes, 0 no.
Adjourn 8:15.
Sharon Hart, Secretary