HomeMy Public PortalAbout01-14-2003PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES - JANUARY 14, 2003
PRESENT: LENNY LEVER, DICK PICARD, BILL LOE, JERRY BROST, SHARON
JOHNSON, MARY VERBICK, RON JOHNSON AND MARILYN FORTIN.
ALSO PRESENT: PLANNING AND ZONING ADMINISTRATOR LOREN
KOHNEN, CITY ADMINISTRATOR CHAD ADAMS AND PLANNING AND
ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON
ABSENT: ELIZABETH WEIR
Vice -chairperson Dick Picard called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m.
Dick re -iterated that the planning commission was an advisory committee and all
recommendations go to the city council for final decisions. He then stated that the order of the
agenda had been changed and that the Rita Jubert item would be first.
Dick then introduced Marilyn Fortin, the new planning commissioner and Marilyn gave a short
talk introducing herself.
1. RITA JUBERT -1355 HAMEL ROAD - SUBDIVISION OF APPROXIMATELY
77 ACRES FROM 1 LOT TO 3 LOTS - PUBLIC HEARING
Loren Kohnen read his memo to the Planning Commission and put up an overhead of the area
and the proposal. He explained that the Business Park parcel is in the sewer district but it is not
economically feasible to bring sewer to the area for this one parcel. Two septic sites have been
located on this parcel for an on -site sewer system.
Laurie Karnes, Land for Sale, representing the Juberts, introduced herself.
L. Kohnen put up an overhead of the possible driveway off of Blackfoot Trail.
, xxxx Blackfoot Trail, asked about the setback for a house from Blackfoot.
Lenny Leuer asked if after the subdivision Lot 1, Block 2 would have enough good soils for
further subdivision.
L. Kohnen said yes. He also said that any further lots would have to access from Tamarack.
Dave Jubert asked if the easement for Tamarack was changing to 30' and if this amount of land
would be taken off the tax roles.
L. Kohnen said yes.
D. Jubert said that the county wants 40' and the park wants 15' and the 10' underlying that. He
wanted to know why they have to give up land for a trail easement.
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L. Kohnen said that it is standard to take a 15' trail easement when a subdivision is done.
D. Jubert said he would like to see the ordinance.
L. Leuer asked if it would be reasonable to ask for an overlay for Lot 1, Block 2 since it has the
possibility for further subdivision.
D. Jubert said that they did not have any plans for further development.
L. Kohnen said we are looking way into the future.
D. Jubert said it is a waste of time and money.
L. Leuer said that with an overlay we make sure that buildings, etc. aren't placed so in the future
a homeowner doesn't come in and claim a hardship that they cannot divide and/or build.
L. Kohnen said that an overlay is not a requirement, but it is a reasonable request.
There was further discussion on having an overlay.
Galen Bruer asked if there was an opportunity to ask for an overlay when there is a request for
further building.
L. Kohnen said that if it was required, now is the time.
Laurie Karnes said that when there is further development of the property the existing buildings
would be gone.
Jerry Brost asked the cost of an overlay.
L. Kohnen said he would guess about $400-$500.
L. Leuer asked about the septic and the existing house.
L. Kohnen said it is working now, but there are two sites available should it fail.
Bill Loe asked if there was a sketch of future development, would the cost be on the resident.
L. Kohnen said yes, the city would not pay for it.
L. Karnes said she would suggest that a condition be if it ever happens, a request for a barn, etc.,
then an overlay would be required.
L. Leuer said that Medina is a popular place for horses and we have run into this before and
during a subdivision is the time for an overlay.
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Peter Strand and Susan Ravencroft from Blackfoot Trail were here and said they thought this
was the 2nd item on the agenda and wondered if they had missed anything.
They were brought up to date.
L. Kohnen suggested that if the Planning Commission wants a ghost plat, it be a condition.
Sharon Johnson asked if a ghost plat is done now, if in the future there is an application, is the
ghost plat looked at and if Lot 1, Block 2 comes in for further subdivision and Tamarack is not
there now, would it be done.
L. Kohnen said that the applicant would build it, probably as a private road.
Kathleen Vashro, Rita Jubert's daughter, said they have already spent a lot of money and now
you are requesting right-of-way, etc. It chips away and we keep hearing more and more
expenses. Hopefully anything that gets added is in the best interest of everyone.
The public hearing was closed.
MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE SUBDIVISION AT 1355 HAMEL ROAD INTO 3 LOTS WITH
FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
1. All requirements of the Park Commission
2. All requirements of Public Works
3. All requirements of Elm Creek Watershed
4. All requirements of City engineer
5. 80' total right-of-way for County Road 115
6. 30' total right-of-way for Tamarack
7. 15' trail easement on south side of County Road 115
8. One park dedication fee due
9. Overlay (ghost) plat for Lot 1, Block 2 for future development
10. Current septic system be checked for compliance
MOTION PASSED.
Kathleen asked if the ghost plat needs to be done before the city council meeting and Loren said
yes.
Laurie asked when the septic compliance check needed to be done and Loren said before final
approval
2. TOM CROSBY - 1602 WILLOW DRIVE - RE -ZONE APPROXIMATELY 48
ACRES FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO AGRICULTURE PRESERVE -
PUBLIC HEARING
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Loren Kohnen read his memo to the Planning Commission and put up an overhead of the area.
He explained the application.
Tom Crosby introduced himself. He said that they had a wonderful relationship with the Thies
family. He said they had purchased the property last April and they want to keep it as is and
maybe fix up the buildings, but no additions or subtractions, we will keep as is. The 4thor 5th
generation Thies family members were the current occupants of the house. Tom went over the
city's comprehensive plan and said that this application fits into both the city's comp plan and the
state statutes. He said that property in ag preserve can be reasonably regulated by the city. Tom
said that ag preserve applications must be into the state by March 1, 2003. He said they waited
this long to come to the city in case the ag task force completed their findings. He said it is hard
to find a more agriculture use in Medina than the Thies proeprty.
L. Kohnen passed out memo's from Ron Batty that he had written to the task force.
Lenny Leuer said they are discussion points and not law.
Carolyn Smith said that in the Ag Task force process we had talked about 'reasonable
restrictions'. She said it would be reasonable to say there could be some restrictions put in the
use of the property.
There was discussion on this application.
Mary Verbick asked Tom Crosby how his proposed 2 year agreement would work.
T. Crosby said it would be a covenant between us and the city and it would run with the land. It
would say that whatever restrictions are put on agriculture preserve land that the City would
implement in the next two years they would abide by.
Jerry Brost asked is the 8 years the guaranteed time for ag. Preserve.
Marilyn Fortin asked the time line for the Ag Task Force.
M. Verbick said that it was not finished, it was in limbo.
M. Fortin asked if there were plans to finish it soon.
Dick Picard asked why the ag task information was included in the information for this
application.
L. Kohnen said for information.
M. Verbick asked about the history of the property and if it was zoned rural residential now.
L. Kohnen said yes.
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D. Picard wanted to know where 'slow growth' was mentioned .
L. Kohnen said in the comprehensive plan.
D. Picard said he has not seen it there and Loren said it had been in the discussion.
M. Verbick wanted to know what could happen if the property stays rural residential.
L. Kohnen said it could be divided into 3-4 parcels.
D. Picard said that in his information from Tom Wegner it says that Ag Preserve property is
exempt from special assessments and he wondered what would happen if improvements were
done to Willow Drive.
Sharon Johnson said she understood that Ag Preserve property could never be assessed.
M. Verbick said if property were zoned agriculture.
Ann Thies, 1922 Willow Drive, said that she is in favor of ag preserve for this property and
cannot think of a better use for the property.
Tom Supel, 2782 Tamarack Drive, said he has been in Medina for a long time and has seen a lot
of changes. He said he applauds the Crosby's attempt to put this property into ag preserve, but
his re -zoning is a classic example of where to have a cost benefit analysis, to take into
consideration the tax loss, etc. He said that no doubt the Crosby's would be good stewards of the
property and that the use of the property does not seem to be the reason for re -zoning, but
financial and other taxpayers have to bear the cost. He said the planning commission has to
weigh what the benefits are. He said as a taxpayer the 3-4 homes that could be there would be
better. He said from his perspective the city is not getting value from the ag preserve. Tom said
that is why the recommendation should be not to re -zone.
There was discussion of tax capacity, special assessments, risks of ag preserve, etc.
C. Smith went over why the Ag Task Force was started. There was discussion of putting a
moratorium on ag preserve, but the consensus was not to do so. The Ag Task Force was very
difficult and the work was not completed for many reasons and she said she didn't feel we should
do anything with more ag preserve until the Task Force is completed with their work. Carolyn
said that Tom Crosby is a nice guy, but what if someone else comes in - Carolyn talked of state
statutes on ag preserve. She thought this should be tabled until there is more information on ag
preserve. Carolyn said everyone should be treated fairly. She said that Tom Crosby had worked
very hard on the Ag Task Force, but
T. Crosby responded: 1. Leatherdale structure issue - he said by us (Crosby's) agreeing to
whatever is decided we are o.k. and whoever would buy the land is bound by the agreement; 2 -
Taxes - lst by agreeing to the 8 years we are not increasing city services or the # of kids in the
schools - we are applying for something that a legislative decision has been made on. He said he
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looks at the legislative intent of ag preserve and the city's comp plan and is taking a benefit. 3 -
Interpretation of prior zoning - he said each of the other lands that have been put in ag preserve
have been subdividable. Tom said he would ask that the planning commission pass on this
tonight.
The public hearing was closed at 8:22 p.m.
Lenny Leuer asked Tom Crosby the current status of the land.
T. Crosby said it was in Green Acres when the Thies's had the property. He said the taxes in ag
preserve will by essentially the same as Green Acres.
L. Leuer wondered how long the property had been in Green Acres,
Ann Thies said for a long time.
L. Leuer said the City would not be losing income (taxes), would just not be realizing the full
potential of what it (taxes) could be.
T. Crosby said this ultimately comes down to a land use decision. He said if this is not allowed it
is pushing it into a Tiller type of residential development.
Phil Zietlow said that this started in 1990 with our 1st comp plan when we discussed ag preserve.
He said we cannot force it on people but we can put the opportunity there and encourage large
open areas, but not legislate it.
Sharon Johnson said this is a huge issue and cannot make the appropriate decision - there is the
issue of how much land there is in Medina - she said there are too many decisions to make with
too much not known.
Jerry Brost said he did not think that the city was out to get as much taxes as it can from it's
citizens. He said people really liked ag preserve, it kept the rural character of Medina, open
green spaces. He said he was not aware of any problems in land use with the land in ag preserve.
Jerry said that the Crosby's had come to the planning commission with a straight -forward
request. He said that the city has promoted the re -zoning of land to ag preserve. Jerry said if we
treat everyone fair, the Crosby's should not pay the price because the Ag Task Force has not
completed its work. He said the City has had a policy of keeping the rural character. He said he
sees no good reason for the Crosby's not to go forward with their request. Jerry said he
understood that the Crosby's were willing to to go forward and do whatever the City asks, so he
sees no reason not to o.k. this and he was ready to move the recommendation with some
conditions.
S. Johnson said that she considers herself neutral. She said this was very serious and she would
like to know how many other parcels were capable of requesting rezoning to ag preserve. She
said there were too many holes and a potential for too many problems.
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There was further discussion of the problem of too many requests coming in for ag preserve.
Some felt this was a very sudden change in course for the city and was a major policy change.
C. Smith said that we were having a wake-up call. She said that farmers use the city services
also, they use the roads, etc. We are seeing a run to it (ag preserve) and we are not picking on
Tom Crosby. She said if she was convinced that this would stop with Tom Crosby, then she
would be for it.
T. Supel said that the local tax system is based on property taxes. He said some families send
their kids to private schools, but they still pay local school taxes. He said this was a confusing
issue for the planning commission. He said that he hasn't seen anything in the Task Force
meetings that addressed the question of ag preserve zoning.
D. Picard said that Tom Crosby has taken members of the planning commission around to the
other ag preserve locations and Dick said he saw no ag use on some of those locations.
MOVED BY JERRY BROST AND SECONDED BY LENNY LEUER TO RECOMMEND
THE REZONING OF THE 47 ACRES AT 1602 WILLOW DRIVE TO AGRICULTURE
PRESERVE WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
1. Any recommendations and/or new ordinances that come from the work of the Ag Task
Force must be abided by.
MOTION FAILED WITH A TIE OF 4 AYES AND 4 NAYS
Ayes: Leuer, Brost, Loe and Johnson
Nays: Verbick, Fortin, Johnson and Picard
Picard reasons for voting nay: 1. I don't see anything in the Comp Plan - Land Use Plan - for ag
preserve and the Planning Commission is governed by this plan. Page ls, point 3 states: The
Planning Commission and the Council will review each development proposal to ensure it is
consistent with the City's Comprehensive Plan. 2. I see no benefit for the citizens of Medina
(other than the applicant). 3. I see many potential increased costs to the residents of Medina
(exemption from special assessments, etc. ).
3. MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10, 2002
Page 2, last paragraph: Should read trail plan should include total miles of trails, and the number
of years expected to - - -
MOVED BY SHARON JOHNSON AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO APPROVE
THE MINUTES AS CORRECTED.
MOTION PASSED.
New City Administrator, Chad Adams, introduced himself to the Planning Commission.
MOVED BY SHARON JOHNSON AND SECONDED BY DICK PICARD TO ADJOURN.
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MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 9:05 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
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