HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 94 - Transcript of Public Hearing May 22, 2019 PUBLIC HEARING 5/22/2019
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1 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT
2 PUBLIC HEARING
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9 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
10 MAY 22, 2019
11 MANCHESTER PARKS, RECREATION & ARTS CENTER
12 359 OLD MERAMEC STATION ROAD
13 BALLWIN, MISSOURI 63021
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Exhibit MSD 94
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1 APPEARANCES
2 BRIAN L. HOELSCHER, P.E.
Executive Director
3 Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District
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The Commissioners:
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Leonard Toenjes, Chair
6 Russell Hawes, Vice Chair
Mark Schoedel, Secretary
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8 The Court Reporter:
9 MS. AMANDA N. FARRAR, CCR
Alaris Litigation Services
10 711 North Eleventh Street
St. Louis, Missouri 63101
11 (314)644-2191
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PUBLIC HEARING 5/22/2019
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The public hearing commenced at
3 6:01 p.m.)
4 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Good evening. I'm
5 Len Toenjes. I'm the chairman of the Metropolitan
6 St. Louis Sewer District Rate Commission. I will be
7 presiding over the public hearing this evening.
8 With me tonight are the following MSD
9 rate commission members: Mark Schoedel and Russell
10 Hawes.
11 Tonight's public hearing is being live
12 streamed and can be viewed online at
13 stlmsd.com/ratecommission or on Facebook
14 @MSDratecommission.
15 For ratepayers viewing the hearing
16 online, we will be taking comments on Facebook
17 @MSDratecommission, on Twitter @MSDratecommission,
18 and by email at ratecommission@stlmsd.com.
19 The charter plan of the district was
20 amended at a general election on November 7th, 2000
21 and established a rate commission to review and make
22 recommendations to the district regarding changes in
23 wastewater rates, stormwater rates and tax rates
24 proposed by the district.
25 The charter plan requires the MSD board
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1 of trustees to select organizations to ensure a fair
2 representation of all users of the district's
3 services on the rate commission. The rate
4 commission representative organizations are to
5 represent commercial/industrial users, residential
6 users and other organizations interested in
7 operation of the district, including organizations
8 focusing on environmental issues, labor issues,
9 socioeconomic issues, community neighborhood
10 organizations and other nonprofit organizations.
11 The MSD rate commission currently consists of 15
12 members from organizations and institutions
13 throughout St. Louis City and County.
14 The rate commission received a rate
15 change notice from the district on March 4th, 2019.
16 Under the district's charter plan, the rate
17 commission must on or before July 2nd, 2019 issue
18 its report on the proposed rate change notice to the
19 board of trustees of the district unless the board
20 of trustees, upon application of the rate
21 commission, extends the period of time for the
22 issuance of the rate commission report for an
23 additional 45-day period.
24 At its meeting on March 14th, 2019 the
25 board of trustees approved the rate commission's
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1 request for an extension. The rate commission's
2 report on the rate change proposal must now be
3 issued on or before August 16th, 2019.
4 The rate commission has engaged legal
5 counsel and a rate consultant independent of those
6 used by the MSD staff.
7 Under procedural rules adopted by the
8 rate commission as amended any person affected by
9 the rate change proposal had an opportunity to
10 submit an application to intervene in these
11 proceedings. An application to intervene has been
12 filed by Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers and
13 this application has been granted.
14 Since March 4th, 2019, the rate
15 commission has received testimony from MSD staff,
16 the rate consultant and the intervenors. The
17 parties have also engaged in discovery requests. A
18 prehearing conference for the purpose of identifying
19 any issues raised by the rate-setting documents and
20 the prepared testimony previously submitted will be
21 conducted on the record. All persons submitting
22 testimony may participate in the prehearing
23 conference and each participant in the prehearing
24 conference shall submit a prehearing conference
25 report describing the issues raised by the
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1 rate-setting documents and the prepared testimony
2 together with a brief description of such
3 participant's position, if any, on each issue and
4 the rationale therefore.
5 Ratepayers who do not wish to intervene
6 are permitted to participate in these on-the-record
7 public hearings conducted in six sessions which
8 started on May 14th, 2019. After tonight's public
9 hearing session, there are four public hearings
10 remaining.
11 The rate commission published a public
12 notice regarding these proceedings in the St. Louis
13 Post-Dispatch and the St. Louis American. These
14 notices contain the time, dates and location of each
15 of the conferences and hearings.
16 The public hearing session tonight is
17 for the purpose of permitting the district to
18 present its wastewater rate change proposal and to
19 permit any ratepayer an opportunity to comment. We
20 will begin with a presentation by the district
21 followed by a public comment period. The district
22 will pre -- will be presenting a lot of information
23 and I ask that attendees hold their questions until
24 the end of the comment period as perhaps many of
25 your initial questions will be answered by the
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1 conclusion of the presentation.
2 Those wishing to speak should sign in on
3 the rate sheet provided over here by the door and
4 will be called in the order their names are listed
5 thereon. Each ratepayer should identify themselves
6 and any organizations represented by such ratepayer.
7 We will also take comments from ratepayer --
8 ratepayers on Facebook @MSDratecommission, on
9 Twitter @ratecommission, and by email at
10 ratecommission@stlmsd.com.
11 There are several housekeeping rules
12 before we begin. If you wish to present testimony
13 or expect that you may have questions, comments,
14 again a reminder, please sign in by the clipboard to
15 the entrance to the room. For those online, send
16 your questions or comments via Facebook, Twitter or
17 email.
18 Speakers will be recognized in the order
19 in which they sign up. Each ratepayer may have a
20 maximum of ten minutes to speak regarding the
21 proposed rate change. As the presiding officer, I
22 can limit or expand the time should I deem it
23 necessary.
24 If you haven't already done so, please
25 put your cell phones on silent or vibrate.
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1 Emergency exits from the room are
2 located on the left and right sides of the room.
3 Restrooms are located across the hallway outside
4 these two doors to my left.
5 Are there any questions from anyone here
6 regarding the proceedings? Any online?
7 Is the district ready to proceed?
8 MR. HOELSCHER: Sure are, Mr. Chairman.
9 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Mr. Hoelscher, please
10 proceed.
11 MR. HOELSCHER: Brian Hoelscher, I'm the
12 executive director and CEO of the Metropolitan
13 St. Louis Sewer District. I'm going to give you a
14 proposal on MSD's proposed wastewater rate
15 proposals -- rate proposal for rates that will be
16 effective from the summer of 2000 to the summer --
17 summer of 2020 through the summer of 2024.
18 Give you a one-page real quick overview
19 of MSD just so we have some knowledge about MSD, and
20 then I'll go into the details of the rate proposal.
21 For the overview, MSD is a government
22 utility. We are created by a provision of the state
23 constitution. We are a municipal corporation. We
24 have a voter-approved charter which is our organic
25 law. Those are the laws that we have to follow in
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1 running the district. We have a six-member board of
2 trustees. Three of those are selected by the mayor
3 of the City of St. Louis and three by the county
4 executive of St. Louis County.
5 It's important to remember we are two
6 utilities in one. It's probably more important in
7 this particular rate proposal than it's been in the
8 past. We are a wastewater utility and we are a
9 stormwater utility. We're here this evening to talk
10 about the wastewater side of our business. Both of
11 those two different businesses have a different
12 source of revenues, different set of activities, we
13 track the cost and the services differently.
14 So we just had an election in April
15 asking our customers whether or not they want us to
16 provide a new stormwater service. Folks elected not
17 to have another stormwater service. That is not
18 what we're talking about tonight.
19 What we are talking about is the
20 wastewater, what goes down the drain when you flush
21 the toilet or when you use your washing machine or
22 when you use your showers. We'll be talking about
23 those.
24 I would ask when we get to the question
25 period that Chairman Toenjes had mentioned, we'd ask
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1 that you ask us questions during this proceeding
2 about wastewater. If you have other questions,
3 we've got a lot of MSD staff here as well as any
4 other source of questions we've got. After the
5 meeting, they're here and they can answer any
6 questions you have if you have questions other than
7 those around wastewater.
8 Service area is 520 square miles.
9 That's the City of St. Louis and about 85 percent of
10 the county west out to about Highway 109 in
11 Wildwood. There's 88 municipalities located within
12 our service area. We run seven treatment plants.
13 They treat an average of 350 million gallons of
14 sewage a day. We have just about 10,000 miles of
15 pipe, if you consider the sanitary sewers, the
16 combined sewers and the storm sewers, and that makes
17 MSD in sewers the fourth largest wastewater utility
18 in the country.
19 We'll talk about the wastewater rates.
20 MSD's proposal includes funding almost $1.6 billion
21 of capital work over the next four years. There's
22 300 projects that make up this list. They're meant
23 to meet regulatory requirements as well as permit
24 requirements. The primary driver is the consent
25 decree which is an agreement we made with the
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1 federal government, the Department of Justice, EPA
2 and Coalition for the Environment on how fast we
3 have to resolve the issues that exist in the
4 wastewater system.
5 In that capital program over those four
6 years we plan on eliminating 50 additional overflows
7 from our wastewater system. The system exists right
8 now when there's too much flow due to rainwater
9 getting in the separate sanitary system, that water
10 either goes into basements or else it discharges to
11 local creeks and streams. We are under a mandate to
12 eliminate the basement backups as well as to
13 eliminate the overflows into creeks and streams.
14 It will include the construction of
15 60 miles of new wastewater sewers. We will inspect
16 64,000 manholes during that four-year period. The
17 sanitary manholes you see, oftentimes they are
18 sources of stormwater, whether it's surface water
19 that gets into the manhole lid or sometimes ground
20 water that comes in through the walls of the
21 manholes.
22 We will replace the incinerators at
23 Bissell and Lemay treatment plant. These two sites
24 contain the biosolids that result from the treatment
25 process and we burn those and we use the residual
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1 ash as well as the heat to help run our plants and
2 provide a marketable material.
3 And, finally, one of the other bigger
4 projects, we will build a tunnel from the Fenton
5 treatment plant to lower Meramec. That will do two
6 things for us. One, it will take the Fenton
7 treatment plant offline, which is important for two
8 reasons. One, it is in the floodplain of the
9 Meramec River. It's been threatened twice in the
10 last five years due to flooding, but also the
11 removal of that plant and the construction of that
12 tunnel is necessary for us to also remove the
13 overflows that are in the wastewater system that
14 currently flow to the treatment plant.
15 So with those costs, I've just kind of
16 gone over what's in the capital program. What we're
17 proposing, that capital program represents over
18 50 percent of the planned expenditures over the next
19 four years. That other 45 percent consists of debt
20 service, which is about 20 percent of the proposal
21 and the rest is our operation and maintenance costs,
22 which are just about 25 percent of the overall
23 revenue needs.
24 There are some key considerations. The
25 first one are charter requirements. The staff which
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1 prepared the proposal, the rate commission which
2 needs to review that proposal and give to our board
3 of trustees, and our board of trustees who need to
4 review the recommendations from the rate commission
5 have five factors they need to consider in this rate
6 proposal.
7 First, the rate proposal has to be
8 consistent with constitutional, statutory or common
9 laws as amended from time to time. The second item,
10 it needs to enhance the district's ability to
11 provide adequate sewer and drainage system
12 facilities or related services. The third, it must
13 be consistent with and not in violation of any
14 covenant or provision related to any outstanding
15 bond or indebtedness of the district. Cannot impair
16 the ability of the district to comply with
17 applicable federal or state laws or regulations as
18 are amended from time to time. And it must impose a
19 fair and reasonable burden on all classes of
20 ratepayers.
21 This last item is the one that staff and
22 the rate commission and our board of trustees spend
23 the most time on in reviewing.
24 You will see two options. You will see
25 an option to pay for this program that is mandated
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1 by the federal government. We will give you two
2 options. One, you can pay for it just with cash.
3 We can just take the revenues we collect directly
4 from your bills over the next four years and pay for
5 this program. We'll also offer another option to
6 request whether or not the ratepayers would like to
7 authorize additional bonding authority for MSD.
8 It's somewhat similar to buying a house. If you
9 paid cash for a house, it costs a lot more upfront,
10 but you don't pay interest expense. If we buy
11 bonds, it does help control rates in the short term,
12 but then you have to pay that interest back as well.
13 We'll offer both of those options to the ratepayers.
14 It needs to be affordable. That's one
15 of the things we're constantly monitoring. I'll
16 mention later some things MSD has done to try and
17 make this as affordable as possible. It needs to
18 also be equitable. We need to make sure that
19 everybody's paying their fair share.
20 There's some underlining items that you
21 would see in the rate proposal. We're making
22 assumptions on customer growth, assumptions on water
23 usage, assumptions on inflation.
24 Consent decree compliance, meeting the
25 goals and the deadlines under the consent decree
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1 drive a big part of what we're doing.
2 And also there's the customer assistance
3 program for low-income individuals. Low-income
4 individuals will be able to take advantage of what
5 we call the cap program included in this next rate
6 proposal. Our current program, if you qualify as
7 low-income, we charge you half the rate that we
8 charge everybody else. That program would still
9 apply as we move forward.
10 Here's the important information, what
11 are we proposing for rates. So, first of all, I
12 want to just have a quick discussion about what it
13 is we measure when we bill you. So what we measure
14 is potable water usage. We use that as being
15 representative of what goes down the drain and what
16 ends up in our sewer system. If you are in a house
17 that has a meter on it, a water meter on it, what we
18 will do is we will take your winter water usage,
19 your potable water usage, either November through
20 January, that three-month period or December through
21 February. It just depends when we start the
22 measurements. We'll take that three-month reading.
23 That will be the volume we assume that you sewer
24 throughout the entire year. What we don't want to
25 include, because it doesn't go down the sewer,
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1 filling swimming pools, washing cars, watering
2 grass, watering gardens. We don't want to charge
3 you for that. It doesn't go down the sewer. That's
4 a methodology to make sure we're as close as
5 possible to making sure just what goes down the
6 sewer and what we have to ultimately transport and
7 treat.
8 If you don't have a meter, and there are
9 individuals who live in the City of St. Louis,
10 residents who don't have meters, we get -- we charge
11 them by attributes. It's the same way they pay for
12 water service in the City of St. Louis. Based on
13 the number of bedrooms, water closets, other
14 factors, kitchens, those all have a flow rate
15 associated with them. It's the same way the City of
16 St. Louis pays for water. It's the same type of
17 volume charge. So we use that data and that's the
18 way we would bill folks in the city is based on that
19 volume conversion. That's the volume we would
20 charge them all 12 months.
21 So for those of you with meters, we
22 mentioned we would use the winter quarter to get
23 that usage. Any of those changes get reflected for
24 the first time in your August billing. So even
25 though we collect them over the winter, we want to
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1 make sure we have the right data, and the first time
2 you see those billings are in August. That's the
3 first billing after the start of our fiscal year.
4 So that being the way we collect the
5 data, what you see up here is what we're proposing.
6 The first one we're going to concentrate is on the
7 light blue.
8 MSD is requesting -- we're going to give
9 you two options. One is to provide additional
10 bonding capacity. If you vote in MSD provide
11 additional bonding capacity, what will happen with
12 the rates is located on the light blue bars. So
13 whatever rate you're paying starting on August 2020,
14 that's the start of our next fiscal year, the
15 increases will consist of a 1.9 percent increase in
16 2021, a 3.8 percent increase in 2022, 3.8 percent
17 increase in 2023, and a 3.8 percent increase in
18 2024.
19 There's another chart that's very
20 similar to what I show up on the presentation that
21 you can find on these one-page handouts as well.
22 So if voters approve bonding, additional
23 bonding, that's what the rates will be. For our
24 typical customer, not all of you pay this, but the
25 typical customer in MSD in 2021 with a 1.9 percent
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1 increase would be paying $56.63 per month. The
2 increase then in 2022 would result in an average
3 rate per month of $58.78, in 2023 it's $61.02, and
4 in 2024 $63.36. Again, everybody's would be
5 different. If you want to really see your impact,
6 you need to take what you currently pay on a monthly
7 basis and increase it by 1.9 percent the first year,
8 and then 3.8 percent the rest of the years.
9 There's also an option, because we'll
10 ask the voters whether or not they want to provide
11 this additional bonding authority, they also have
12 the option of saying no, we don't want to. If you
13 indicate that, we still have to do the program. We
14 are required by the federal government to do the
15 program. We will then just use the revenues you pay
16 and that will pay for the program for the next four
17 years. The impact there is a little bit different.
18 If you look on the chart, the first year it will be
19 a 1.9 percent increase. Whenever we do a rate
20 proposal, we make sure the first year increase under
21 either scenario is the same amount. That gives us
22 some flexibility when we go to the polls and ask the
23 voters whether or not they want to give us
24 additional bonding authority. But after that the
25 rates will up go faster. 2022 they would raise
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1 15.1 percent, if the voters decide not to offer
2 additional bonding authority. 2023 they would go up
3 17.1 percent and in 2024 they would go up
4 13.1 percent.
5 So under the bonding scenario where MSD
6 gets additional bonding from 2021 to 2024, your
7 rates go from $56.63 on average per month to $63.36.
8 If you decide not to give MSD additional bonding
9 authority, you start from $56.36 in 2021 and it goes
10 up to $86.29 per month for the average customer in
11 2024.
12 That's a decision that the voters will
13 be able to make, which option they would like to
14 move forward with in paying for the program. Excuse
15 me.
16 What has MSD done to help -- to help
17 reduce costs? Well, there's four items here. I
18 mentioned the consent decree, the agreement we have
19 with the federal government. We've got an amendment
20 to that -- to that provision. There were some
21 regulatory changes that gave us the opportunity to
22 make things much more affordable in the future.
23 We've lowered our O&M expenses. We brought our
24 capital program in on time and under budget, and
25 also our finance people have done a very good job of
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1 financing the program and using different options to
2 refinance the program.
3 What do those savings look like? So in
4 the last four years, 2017 through 2020, we've saved
5 about $27 million from what we thought our costs
6 would be for debt. This mostly through refinancing
7 of our debt. Some of those options have gone away
8 with the change in tax laws, but our secretary
9 treasurer and our director of financing will keep
10 looking for ways to continue doing that in the
11 future.
12 Capital program came in $110 million
13 under budget. A lot of that has to do with we've
14 had a very long program, we've had a lot of folks
15 that are working here, a lot of people fighting for
16 this work. We're getting some very, very good
17 prices in a lot of areas of our program. As long as
18 we do our job and make sure it's a level playing
19 field and let people want to come and bid, we'll
20 keep getting those lower prices. So we're
21 110 million under there.
22 For operation and maintenance, for the
23 last four years we came in $43 million under budget.
24 A lot of that had to do with technological changes.
25 One of the things we changed, excuse me just a
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1 minute, has to do with the technological changes.
2 One example of that is when we inspect sewer. We
3 have to regularly inspect them and make sure they're
4 not blocked up. If they get blocked up, they can
5 cause overflows and basement backups. Used to be we
6 would go in, we would have to TV it, use a jetter to
7 clean the line out. That was a four-person with a
8 big piece of equipment operation to do that. We've
9 checked out some new technologies and now we're able
10 to just simply pop a manhole lid, put a transmitter
11 and a receiver on one manhole -- transmitter on one
12 manhole and a receiver on the other end, shoot an
13 ultrasonic signal through, and based on the strength
14 of that signal we can tell how clean that pipe is.
15 It allows us to do things with a much smaller crew
16 and we got a lot more production. Those types of
17 things carry over into the next year as well and are
18 ultimately reflected in the cost.
19 And then, finally, the impact of the
20 2018 consent decree, there was a regulatory change I
21 had mentioned. We are replacing our incinerators.
22 There's a regulatory change outside the consent
23 decree that required us to move that work up five
24 years. In order to accommodate that, that would put
25 an excessive burden in the next rate proposal on the
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1 ratepayers. We went to the rate -- we went to the
2 EPA and the Department of Justice and we got a
3 five-year extension on the consent decree. So we're
4 doing basically the same amount of work, just
5 instead of 23 years we have 28 years to do it, and
6 that also helps reduce the amount of -- helps reduce
7 the amount, excuse me, of the increases over the
8 next four years.
9 So what's really important about that,
10 there's two things. One, if we have done some
11 savings that are sustainable and can be applied to
12 this year, it's reduced our cost upfront. Anything
13 else that we've saved in the previous four years go
14 back in our general fund and that's the first source
15 of funds that we tap in order to pay for the next
16 four years. So it's helping reduce rates. We don't
17 have stockholders. We don't have dividends to pay.
18 I guarantee you we don't get bonuses. The only
19 place we have for that money to go is back to the
20 ratepayers, and that's what we do every one of these
21 four-year cycles. Any savings we have we give that
22 back to the ratepayer resulting in lower rates.
23 Excuse me.
24 So the schedule. MSD submitted its
25 wastewater rate proposal to the rate commission on
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1 March 4th, 2019. The chairman just gave you some
2 idea of what activities have gone on so far and
3 where you can look to see the future activities.
4 They are required to submit a report to our board by
5 August 19th, 2019 indicating what their
6 recommendations are with regard to MSD staff's rate
7 proposal. Whenever those decisions come out, right
8 now we are planning on putting those rate changes in
9 effect on July 1, 2020 which means any changes would
10 show up on your August 2020 bill. It's the first
11 time you would see them. Now, I mentioned that we
12 don't know how we're going to pay for it. That's up
13 to the ratepayers. Whether we would just use the
14 rates that you pay us or whether we borrow more
15 money. We have a lot of different dates. Somewhere
16 between spring 2020 through spring 2021 is when we
17 can go to the voters and find out whether or not
18 they want to give us additional bonding authority.
19 We're simply going to monitor what else is going on.
20 We're going to make sure we find an opportunity and
21 then go out and make sure all the voters are
22 educated on what choice they're making. We won't
23 advocate for one option or the other. It's up to
24 the voters, but we want to take the time to make
25 sure we have the best opportunity we can possible to
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1 educate the voters and let them know what it is
2 they're voting on.
3 This is a list of the rate commission
4 public hearings. You happen to be attending the
5 second one on this list. This is also on the rate
6 commission's website. We will be giving exactly
7 this presentation at these other meetings as well.
8 And before I pass it back on to the
9 chairman again, I would let you know that if you
10 have questions other than on the wastewater rate
11 proposal such as billing questions or questions
12 about stormwater, we do have staff here and after
13 this hearing we'll stay as long as is necessary to
14 ask any questions you have about issues that are
15 outside of this proposal.
16 Mr. Chairman, that's the presentation.
17 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Thank you,
18 Mr. Hoelscher.
19 I think the signatures are being
20 collected from folks here in the room who wish to
21 make a statement or ask a question. So as soon as I
22 get that list, we'll move forward with taking
23 questions from attendees and then we'll do the
24 online questions.
25 First person who is listed to ask some
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1 questions or make a comment is Barbara Biondo.
2 Barbara, please come up to the microphone so you can
3 be heard and we will do our best to respond
4 accurately.
5 MS. BIONDO: My first question is is you
6 have this rate proposal that you want to give to us
7 people in St. Louis County. Why isn't the water
8 measurements done the same as in the county as in
9 the city? I don't understand why it has to be
10 different than in the city than in the county.
11 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Let me start with
12 this and then I will ask Mr. Hoelscher to elaborate
13 if I'm incorrect.
14 The billing system for the water usage
15 is different in the city and the county. In the
16 city, the city water is provided by the city and the
17 city bills it based on, as Mr. Hoelscher said, the
18 number of sinks, the number of toilets, the number
19 of bathtubs and that is a city service that is
20 provided by the city billed to the city and they
21 don't meter the homes or residences.
22 In St. Louis County the properties are
23 metered by Missouri American Water and those folks
24 pay directly to Missouri American Water. So there
25 are two different delivery systems for clean water
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1 into the residences in the city and the county.
2 Is that accurate?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: That is. I think I'll
4 expand on the reason for that. It's not
5 mechanically possible to actual measure the
6 wastewater that leaves your home. It's under
7 gravity. There's no way to actually do that. So we
8 use the water usage and the two methods that the
9 chairman described as a substitute for what would go
10 down the drain. Now, in case some of you -- maybe
11 anticipate a future question. That's why when we
12 get questioned on how much we bill you, if you've
13 ever been in that situation, all our data comes from
14 the water providers. So we always, when we get an
15 appeal, we always then have to turn around and go to
16 the water providers or have you help us go to the
17 water providers to make any corrections. We're
18 making adjustments all the time, but our only source
19 of data is the water provider.
20 MS. BIONDO: Okay. My other part of my
21 question is after you do all these improvements,
22 then our rates should be going down because you're
23 doing, you know, these projects that you want to do,
24 you know, you want to fix the incinerators at Lemay
25 and Bissell, which in my opinion should have been
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1 done a long time ago. I just saw an episode on TV,
2 it was either Channel 5 or Channel 4, about the
3 waste that's coming out of those stacks. You've got
4 kids that got asthma that are going to schools and
5 stuff like that. People down in Lemay are having
6 health problems. This should have never been done
7 in these areas where there's schools and
8 populations. It should have been shut down a long,
9 long time ago, and you guys should be ashamed of
10 yourselves to keep letting this go on like it is.
11 When you got kids and people that are getting sick,
12 there's no reason you should be burning waste and
13 stuff like that in areas where people and kids are
14 living. You should be ashamed of yourselves and you
15 should have had -- the EPA should have come in and
16 shut these things down a long time ago and you
17 should have been doing something else somewhere
18 else. I mean, Illinois doesn't burn this stuff, and
19 we in Missouri should be ashamed of ourselves for
20 doing these things to people, especially little kids
21 that are going to school. And I don't have anything
22 else to say.
23 MR. HOELSCHER: I do need to respond to
24 that. I would ask that -- Sean Hadley is here,
25 right?
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1 The data and information that was
2 presented on Channel 5 is very misleading, and the
3 way we're going to counter that is we'll show you
4 what the actual rest of the interview was that they
5 didn't show you on the set. You will find that what
6 you described is the impression we knew people would
7 have when they ran this story, which is why we taped
8 all the interviews. We knew this was coming. I
9 will let you know all those incinerators, both the
10 old ones we had as well as we're planning on
11 upgrading technologies and still incinerating, we're
12 still going to be doing that because it is the
13 safest for the environment and safest for all the
14 folks for us to dispose of this sludge. And we're
15 doing it under permit from EPA and MDNR, and we are
16 meeting permit requirements so that we don't impact
17 the health of the residents.
18 We have heard the issue about why can't
19 you just not incinerate in Illinois. We tried. We
20 have seven treatment plants. There's one medium
21 sized and one small that we try to land apply our
22 end product as much as we can, but we run out of
23 space. That includes in Illinois. Part of the
24 problem is how large the metropolitan area is. When
25 you add both health and cost together, incineration
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1 is absolutely the best option.
2 So I would ask however much more
3 information you like, Sean, raise your hand again.
4 So get with Sean and he can get you all
5 the information you want on exactly what the
6 interview consisted of and give you an awful lot of
7 facts.
8 MS. BIONDO: Okay. Well, I'll backtrack
9 my thing then because --
10 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, don't backtrack
11 until you see our information.
12 MS. BIONDO: Well, they should have --
13 you know, Channel 5 and Channel 4 should have put
14 everything out there then as opposed to making you
15 guys look bad the whole time. I mean, that's not
16 fair. If you're going to run a story like that,
17 then you should put all the facts out there.
18 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, they got a job to
19 do and we just make sure we got all the data as
20 well.
21 MS. BIONDO: All right. Thank you very
22 much for listening.
23 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Barbara, thank you
24 for your comments. I'd just -- I'd also like to
25 point out that on the rate commission, the Coalition
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1 for the Environment and the Missouri Botanical
2 Garden are some of the folks who are on the rate
3 commission. So there are folks who are concerned
4 about the environmental concerns that you expressed
5 as part of our group also. So thank you so much.
6 Thanks for being here.
7 MS. BIONDO: All right. Thank you.
8 Thanks for listening.
9 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Thank you.
10 Number two on our list of folks here in
11 the room is Tish Hanewinkel. Tish.
12 MS. HANEWINKEL: Can I pass it to my
13 husband?
14 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: You may pass it to
15 whoever you care to.
16 Chris. Chris, thanks for being here.
17 MR. HANEWINKEL: You're welcome. I just
18 wonder if there's not a little more information as
19 far as what's the better option for the customer
20 when it comes to a bond or a rate increase. As I
21 previously said, you know, eventually we'll get
22 beyond this and is the -- is the pain of the higher
23 rate per month, if you pay as you go, is it four
24 years later that it's reassessed again because that
25 four-year period is over and the projects are done
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1 or -- I mean, how does that end? And then you've
2 got something to compare it to if you're looking at
3 a bond, that how long does that bond go on. So I
4 think -- I think the voters are going to need to
5 understand that.
6 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: I think in some of
7 the content that is in the booklets there that are
8 on the table when the rate commission receives a
9 rate proposal, there is a little bit of a future
10 projection, not just for this rate case. I think
11 the rate cases are normally on a four-year cycle,
12 but as the rate commission is trying to make that
13 determination, we looked at -- we look at a number
14 of factors. There is an additional four-year
15 projection in the case that's given to us. So that
16 is part of the -- we look at not just the what is
17 coming out of people's pockets, but what's the size
18 of the capital program, is that in alignment with
19 the consent decree or not, what is the impact on the
20 following four years. This extension of the consent
21 decree that Mr. Hoelscher mentioned did have a
22 significant impact on this particular rate case with
23 that five-year extension, that the projects could be
24 spread over a longer time period. That's why we
25 have a public vote to let the public make that
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1 determination about temporary pain or a longer term,
2 lesser pain.
3 So that's a -- that's a tough call, but
4 that is -- it is in the rate proposal, perhaps
5 something we should include. Those are free for the
6 taking. It's all up online also on the rate case
7 website -- on the rate commission website.
8 MR. HOELSCHER: Just to -- and expand on
9 that a little further. You're right. We will reach
10 a place, but understand, all this work -- this work
11 doesn't end till 2039. Now, it starts humping and,
12 you know, start decreasing, you're right. Somewhere
13 in the 2030 range somewhere, we are going to reach a
14 point where the decision's going to come in, and it
15 depends on what the folks decide, whether they want
16 to pay go or whether they want to borrow money,
17 where the flattening or decreasing rate is something
18 that's going to have to be evaluated in the same
19 way. And as the rates are going down, you'll have
20 the same decision there, do you want to borrow money
21 or do I want to do this.
22 When we do the informational outreach,
23 that will be one of the main focuses that we'll give
24 to the voters to let them understand. Again, the
25 rate proposal does have, and we do do them in
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1 four-year blocks, the '21 through '24, we've given
2 an unrefined outlook for 25 through 28. That's in
3 the rate proposal. And we know that we're going to
4 get somewhere around the 2031, 2032, 2033 we're
5 going to get where rates are going to start
6 plateauing, and the discussion will become a little
7 bit different.
8 Right now for this rate cycle and the
9 next we know we've got some increases that, plus or
10 minus, were about inflation and then things are
11 going to start to decrease. And when we go out to
12 the voters, we'll make sure we have some additional
13 information so they really understand what's going
14 on in the future.
15 MR. HANEWINKEL: Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Thank you,
17 Mr. Hanewinkel.
18 The third person in the room who has
19 their name on the list is Mr. McGraw.
20 MR. McGRAW: Please excuse my voice.
21 I've had cancer and it makes it tough to talk.
22 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Thank you for being
23 here.
24 MR. McGRAW: But I was just -- the same
25 thing, in the city and the county do you merge the
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1 sewer plants?
2 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: I will -- as far as
3 the treatment is?
4 MR. McGRAW: Is sewer coming in mutual
5 places from the city and the county? Because I see
6 the city all the time they will have their fire
7 hydrants open all day so they can cool down and I
8 know, you know, that's going somewhere.
9 MR. HOELSCHER: So MSD has five major
10 watersheds. Four of those are served by individual
11 plants and one along the Meramec River has got three
12 plants that are currently activated. That makes the
13 seven plants we have.
14 Our boundaries, our municipal
15 boundaries, again as I explained earlier, kind of
16 everything from the Mississippi River out to about
17 109. None of the treatment plants treat just the
18 city or the county. The watersheds that we operate
19 in, they don't follow municipal boundaries and
20 nobody drew the municipal boundaries to match the
21 watersheds.
22 So the Bissell wastewater treatment
23 plant, which is located in Grand, it serves north
24 county and it serves part of north city. The Lemay
25 treatment plant that's to the south, it serves part
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1 of south city and also serves part of west and near
2 southwest county. The Meramec plants, the plants
3 along the Meramec. Coldwater treatment plant is
4 everything to the very far north and Coldwater
5 Creek, and then we have the Missouri River treatment
6 plant for everything that flows to the Missouri
7 River.
8 MR. McGRAW: So the city can put in as
9 much water as they want and can just go on a basic
10 pay, right?
11 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, so what we just
12 described, when we do billing for residential
13 customers only -- in the city only residential
14 customers are not metered. All the businesses, all
15 the commercial entities, they are metered, and we
16 bill them in the same way based on their actual
17 water usage, and that's where your extra water would
18 come from.
19 So when I was mentioning the meter to
20 non-metered, we're really focusing this presentation
21 on the residential customers. There's a difference.
22 When you get to nonresidential customers, apartment
23 complexes, commercial, industrial, any of those kind
24 of users, we're actually using meter data and basing
25 the charge based on the amount of potable water they
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1 actually use on a monthly basis.
2 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: I'd just like to
3 comment on that for a minute. And, again, this
4 is -- everything you heard tonight is residential.
5 When we get into the rate case hearings, you heard
6 me say earlier the one intervenor we have is
7 Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers. Those are
8 folks like Anheuser-Busch or some of the large
9 chemical plants that really have a significant
10 amount of water usage and because of that look for
11 ways to mitigate that discharge and mitigate the
12 impact on the district. So I understand what you're
13 saying about the fire hydrants, but once you get
14 past the residential, everything is on a meter and
15 everything is measured consistently in the city and
16 the county.
17 MR. McGRAW: Fire hydrants are measured?
18 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, the city's not the
19 only place that turns the fire hydrants on during
20 the summer. We have that everywhere. So we do --
21 we do see that issue throughout the entire service
22 area.
23 MR. McGRAW: Well, most places like
24 Ballwin we have places you can go to swim and they
25 pay for that. You know, we don't open up. In
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1 Fenton we don't open up hydrants, and I'm sure
2 Ellisville don't. I'm just, you know, wondering.
3 Okay. Thank you very much.
4 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Thank you,
5 Mr. McGraw.
6 Let us move to our electronic questions.
7 MODERATOR: Yes, Chairman Toenjes.
8 Just a reminder that we have three ways
9 that if you're viewing us online tonight you can ask
10 questions. If you're on Facebook, which is
11 @MSDratecommission, you can ask a question right
12 there as you're watching us; or if you'd like to
13 comment on Twitter, our handle is @ratecommission.
14 You can also send us an email this evening and we'll
15 answer your question. It's
16 ratecommission@stlmsd.com.
17 And we do have a few questions from
18 people who've been watching tonight and also some
19 people who have commented on Facebook in the days
20 leading up to today's hearing.
21 Carl on Facebook asks why does it cost
22 more to handle the water runoff than it does to have
23 freshwater pumped to my house?
24 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, I guess when we
25 say runoff, just so we understand, this is not
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1 regarding stormwater. This is not -- this rate is
2 not with regard to runoff. It's with regard to what
3 you flush down the toilet. So I really think my
4 first easy quick answer is to just think about what
5 you think the cost would be to turn river water into
6 drinkable water versus what it costs to take what
7 goes down the toilet, what goes down the drain and
8 make it acceptable to go back into the river. It
9 simply costs more.
10 Now, in MSD's case with regard to
11 potable water, there's a little bit bigger
12 difference because, as I indicated, MSD is the
13 fourth largest sewer utility in the country with
14 regard to miles of pipe, and that results in just
15 larger costs. If we were going to build St. Louis
16 from scratch today, we would not have the
17 underground sanitary sewer system we do now, but we
18 have what we have.
19 The water companies, they work under
20 pressure. It allows them to be much more cost
21 effective with the way they distribute potable
22 water. The sewer entities, especially in St. Louis,
23 mostly work on gravity and we've got existing
24 systems that we have to maintain. So that's the
25 reason for it. It just simply costs more to clean
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1 the water that comes out of your house, put back
2 into the river and meet permits that the EPA
3 requires us to clean it to a certain degree than it
4 does take to take water out of primarily the
5 Mississippi River and provide it to your home for
6 drinking water.
7 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: And I guess I would
8 answer that question slightly differently. It
9 really does not cost more to drink the runoff
10 because the runoff is the stormwater portion of the
11 bill, not the wastewater portion of the bill. And
12 if you look at the stormwater charges for MSD and
13 what you actually pay to treat the runoff, which is
14 the stormwater portion, it is significantly less
15 than your freshwater bill. So I would suggest that
16 it probably costs much less to treat storm -- much
17 less to get rid of stormwater and much more to treat
18 wastewater.
19 MODERATOR: All right. If Carl were
20 here, I would say is that okay, but since he's not,
21 we'll move on.
22 Nick on Facebook asks -- or says MSD's
23 infrastructure is already built. So what are you
24 doing with the money that you collect?
25 He wasn't -- he may not have seen your
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1 presentation earlier. So Chairman?
2 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: I'll take a run at
3 that, and certainly any of the other rate
4 commissioners can jump in.
5 Yes, it is already built, and the
6 determination of the United States Environmental
7 Protection Agency what is built and what is there is
8 not sufficient to meet today's environmental
9 standards and needs some significant upgrades.
10 Mr. Hoelscher mentioned the consent decree that was
11 negotiated with the Missouri Department of Natural
12 Resources, Coalition for the Environment, the
13 Environmental Protection Agency and MSD. Those four
14 entities entered into an agreement to look at what's
15 already built and what needed to be done to the
16 system that was built in some instances 60, 70, 80
17 years ago before there was an EPA, and bring that up
18 to the standards that folks expect now to make sure
19 that our rivers and streams are, are safer than they
20 were at that point.
21 MR. SCHOEDEL: I think you said it well.
22 I think people don't understand that MSD was created
23 to help manage a lot of infrastructure that was
24 installed many years ago to different standards than
25 we have today, let alone the combined sewers where
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1 we're trying to put stormwater and wastewater
2 together, which is not a good idea where we have the
3 overflow. So there's a lot of issues with the
4 infrastructure there because it wasn't designed
5 properly. We still have some, I believe, wood pipes
6 that are passing sewage around as well.
7 MODERATOR: In fact, we had a question
8 about that very thing. Someone said a lot of pipes,
9 wood included, why do we have to repair sewers now
10 that are so very, very old?
11 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Well, part of that
12 reason I would say has to do with history and the
13 evolution and people's willingness to, in fact,
14 invest in the infrastructure. I would suggest that
15 probably without the consent decree I question how
16 much people would be willing to invest in the
17 infrastructure even today. It's largely a problem
18 that it's out of sight, out of mind I think in a lot
19 of people's minds from the perspective of the rate
20 commission and we just, I think, experienced that
21 with the stormwater case that the rate commission
22 went through a lot of deliberations about the
23 stormwater case. That was an elective imposition of
24 a fee to improve the quality of life and mitigate
25 some flooding and the voters decided that was not
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1 something that they cared to invest in. That being
2 said, the flooding will continue, the stormwater
3 system will continue to exist as it is and perhaps
4 10 or 15 years from now somebody may ask, well, why
5 didn't MSD fix that 15 years ago, and I would
6 suggest that the answer would probably be that that
7 was not a decision that MSD made, but a decision
8 that the voters made.
9 MR. HOELSCHER: Little background on
10 this. I want to make sure everybody understands the
11 EPA and the Department of Justice are not picking on
12 St. Louis. All the cities were doing work in order
13 to try and meet the Clean Water Act. For some of
14 the reasons that the chairman mentioned, the
15 Department of Justice and EPA decided to pursue a
16 strategy and they've done this to over 200 cities
17 throughout the United States, MSD being one of the
18 last ones, St. Louis MSD, to sue in order to meet
19 the Clean Water Act and put exact schedules and
20 exact performance criteria in place in a
21 court-enforceable document. So we aren't the only
22 ones that were meeting the Clean Water Act. I will
23 tell you just about everybody has a problem with the
24 Clean Water Act and water. That was a strategy.
25 That's why we are where we are now.
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1 Quite honestly, our burden is a little
2 less. We're somewhat lucky that we don't have
3 beaches. We are somewhat lucky that we have very --
4 rivers that have a pretty good volume of water. It
5 allows us a lot more options to be much more cost
6 effective with some of our potential solutions than
7 other municipalities, but don't think that they're
8 just going after MSD.
9 MSD has been addressing this issue since
10 it got created by the voters in 1954. We're going
11 along at a pace that matched -- we were spending as
12 many dollars that we got to correct these issues.
13 The federal government just got impatient with how
14 fast cities throughout the country are addressing
15 these and decided to use the court-type documents in
16 order to enforce those.
17 MODERATOR: Just a reminder if you're
18 viewing us online tonight, you can ask a question on
19 Facebook, Twitter or email. Facebook is
20 @MSDratecommission, Twitter is @ratecommission,
21 email is ratecommission@stlmsd.com.
22 We had a commenter on Facebook tonight
23 who said, I'll paraphrase, no means no. I assume
24 that's referring to the stormwater vote in April.
25 Have you considered cutting your top employees' pay?
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: So, again, as you said,
2 no means no is for the optional service in April for
3 stormwater. That's not what we're talking about.
4 We're talking about wastewater. As far as being
5 cost effective, which is the way I'll take that
6 question, you'll find in the rate proposal we are
7 constantly comparing ourselves to other wastewater
8 utilities and the cost effectiveness of our
9 services. You'll find in almost every case we are
10 in the top one quarter of being cost effective with
11 the way we are providing services.
12 With regard to salaries, I will let you
13 know that every ten years we do a study, we compare
14 it to the salaries that are being paid in our
15 industry throughout the Midwest and we adjust our
16 salaries accordingly. We are traditionally,
17 especially for the higher-paid and professional
18 employees, we try to keep that below what the
19 weighted average is for the City of St. Louis.
20 We've done a good job of doing that. So that is
21 something we're cognizant of, we're making sure we
22 pay -- we want to pay people the proper amount for
23 the work they're doing, but we definitely don't want
24 to pay them an extravagant amount, and we put a lot
25 of processes in place to make sure that doesn't
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1 happen. It's something, again, we formally look at
2 every ten years as part of our charter, but also
3 then we are required every four years to bring those
4 cost effectiveness type issues also to the rate
5 commission for investigation.
6 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: I would answer that
7 question that Mr. Hoelscher does not set his pay or
8 the pay of the other folks at the sewer district.
9 The rate commission does not establish the pay or
10 those who work at the sewer district. Those pay
11 rates are set by the trustees, three appointed by
12 the mayor of the City of St. Louis, three appointed
13 by St. Louis County, and those are the folks that
14 make those pay determinations.
15 MODERATOR: Very good.
16 Another person tonight on Facebook
17 comments you don't pay for sewers in Valley Park,
18 taxpayers pay for new sewers, you don't clean out
19 the river and that's where our water goes.
20 Any clarification on that?
21 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Mr. Hoelscher?
22 MR. HOELSCHER: So the charter that was
23 approved by the ratepayers in our district have laid
24 out the process. You're right. MSD does not pay to
25 construct new sewers around new development. That
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1 cost lands on the ratepayers. However, as required
2 by our charter, we inspect and do a plan approval
3 process for every new sewer that goes in the ground,
4 and we're talking wastewater here, and then once
5 that goes in the ground, the developer of that
6 product is then mandated to turn those over for the
7 operation and maintenance by MSD, the operation and
8 maintenance of the sewer, the operation and
9 maintenance of any pump stations that go in place.
10 And hopefully there isn't any place in
11 Valley Park where the wastewater sewers are
12 discharging to the river. I will guarantee you they
13 are all going to our treatment plants. We are
14 treating the waste and then we are discharging that
15 waste into local creeks and streams.
16 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Any other comments?
17 MODERATOR: Andy on Facebook asks so
18 there is a cost savings from what the rate was
19 projected to be four years ago; is that correct?
20 MR. HOELSCHER: Is that the question?
21 MODERATOR: That's the question.
22 MR. HOELSCHER: You want to go?
23 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Well, my
24 understanding is yes. If you look back at the rate
25 case -- the rate case that we had over the last
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1 four-year cycle and we had these four-year
2 projections going forward, for this current case
3 those projections in that prior case were higher
4 than what we received. If I recall correctly, not
5 having it in front of me, I think those rate
6 increases were somewhere in the 3 1/2 to 4 percent
7 range projected, and now it's the 1.9 percent. And
8 I'm just thinking off the top of my head.
9 MR. HOELSCHER: I'm going to use the
10 real numbers. Four years ago we thought we were
11 going to end up with four 10 percent increases. The
12 savings I've indicated has changed it from four 10
13 percent increases to a 2, and three 4 percent
14 increases. That's the results of the savings that
15 we've put in place. Fairly significant.
16 And that information, by the way, Len
17 mentioned the rate commission saw it four years ago.
18 The rate commission process from four years ago is
19 still on our website and you can either look there
20 or if you want to ask one of our staff, we'll show
21 you exactly what those projections looked like four
22 years ago, again, showing instead of the 2, 4, 4 and
23 4 percent you see here, we were anticipating with
24 bonding 10 percent increases every year from 2021
25 through 2024. Those cost savings are what helped
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1 us, along with the consent decree change, what
2 helped us to reduce the cost in this rate proposal.
3 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: So the answer to the
4 question is yes?
5 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes.
6 MODERATOR: There were two comments on
7 Facebook that indicate that MSD's rates are higher
8 than the national average. First, is that true?
9 And if so, why?
10 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: I do not know. Do
11 you know?
12 MR. HOELSCHER: Can I go?
13 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Please do.
14 MR. HOELSCHER: So it depends on where
15 you're at in the program. Up until four years ago,
16 we were at or below the median rate pay throughout
17 the entire country and we were in the middle of our
18 consent decree. With the last rate proposal that
19 brought us 2017 to 2020 we creeped above the median
20 number. You saw these numbers here that I had shown
21 previously, and I'm going to get there. So they're
22 somewhere in the numbers of 56 to 65. If you look
23 at large cities throughout the country, some folks
24 are paying $125 a month. Some folks are paying $25
25 a month. We are slightly above the median, but we
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1 are close to the median and we're trying, especially
2 with this last increase, of just having increases of
3 about inflation for the next four years, hoping
4 we'll creep up on that. We'll get those data from
5 the appropriate agency as to what actually has
6 happened to rates in the past. We are slightly
7 above the median, but we're going to try and get
8 back down to it and below as quickly as we can and
9 do these things as cost effectively as possible.
10 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: I think to answer the
11 second part of that question. My answer to why
12 they're slightly higher would probably be the age of
13 the system, which was talked about earlier, deferred
14 maintenance and the consent decree.
15 MODERATOR: Mr. Chairman, I think that's
16 all the questions we have from our online viewers
17 tonight.
18 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Thank you.
19 Any of the rate commissioners have any
20 questions or comments? Mr. Hawes?
21 MR. HAWES: No, I don't have any.
22 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Mr. Schoedel?
23 MR. SCHOEDEL: No.
24 CHAIRMAN TOENJES: Nothing else online?
25 I'd like to thank you, Mr. Hoelscher,
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1 for sharing the facts and the transparency of the
2 information with us so we can all make an informed
3 decision.
4 Thanks to everybody for being here
5 tonight. Our next public hearing will be conducted
6 on June 4th, 2019 at 6 p.m. at the Heights which is
7 the Richmond Heights Community Center. This public
8 hearing is adjourned. Thank you.
9 (The public hearing concluded at
10 7:01 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3 I, Amanda N. Farrar, a Certified Court
4 Reporter for the State of Missouri, do hereby
5 certify that the foregoing hearing was taken by me
6 to the best of my ability and thereafter reduced to
7 typewriting by me; that I am neither counsel for,
8 related to, nor employed by any of the parties to
9 the action in which this hearing was taken, and
10 further that I am not a relative or employee of any
11 attorney or counsel employed by the parties thereto,
12 nor financially or otherwise interested in the
13 outcome of the action.
14
15
16 ________________________
17 Certified Court Reporter
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combined 10:16
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come 20:19
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PUBLIC HEARING 5/22/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
comment 6:19
6:21,24 25:1
36:3 37:13
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20:1 23:15
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33:7 40:24
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directly 14:3
25:24
director 2:2
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discharge 36:11
discharges 11:10
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Facebook 3:13
3:16 7:8,16
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PUBLIC HEARING 5/22/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
45:16 46:17
48:7
facilities 13:12
fact 41:7,13
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50:1
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34:2 35:4
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43:13
Grand 34:23
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38:23
ground 11:19
46:3,5
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growth 14:22
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28:19,23
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31:19,22 36:12
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41:23
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28:6
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26:21
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6:7,12 7:2,4,14
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9:6,6,7,14
10:10,17,18 11:3
11:5,9,20 12:8
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16:18,24 17:2
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25:7,8,8,10,10
25:15,15,22
26:1,10,13,25
27:5,7,13,15,19
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30:10 31:6,7
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22:7 33:9
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48:7
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33:10 49:3
information
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29:6
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25:19,19 26:2
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27:10,24 28:2
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28:24 29:1
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32:4,4,17
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14:14,17 15:12
15:17,17,21,25
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28:12,15 30:12
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31:2 32:4,11,14
33:21,21
34:23,24,25
37:21,22 38:6
38:8,8,20,25
38:25 39:3,3
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40:5,21 41:4
42:3 43:4,10
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16:15,16 18:3
20:18 22:12,16
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14:2,3 15:12,21
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20:25 21:10
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29:19,24
30:17 31:10,16
32:8 33:24
34:17 35:9,11
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keep 20:9,20
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kids 27:4,11,13
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kind 12:15 34:15
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kitchens 16:14
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32:12 33:3,9
34:8,8 36:25
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methodology
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methods 26:8
metropolitan 1:1
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microphone
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MODERATOR
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10:21 11:1,14,15
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16:13,15,16,21
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20:7,7,9,13,14
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30:2,5,10,22
31:6,9,14,16,17
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32:23 34:10
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35:1,1,23,24
35:25 36:8,10
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39:1,4,10,11,17
40:3,6,11,23
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48:17,22 49:2
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31:11,19,22
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43:18,22
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22:12,14 23:4
25:3 26:13,18
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29:11 30:5,10
34:14,14 37:6
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43:1,6 44:8,14
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34:16 39:1,4
41:18,18 45:18
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12:16,17,18
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PARKS 1:11
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28:23 30:5
31:16 34:24
34:25 35:1
41:11 45:2
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participant 5:23
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particular 9:7
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pay 13:25 14:2,4
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48:16
paying 14:19
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40:22 41:16
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people's 31:17
41:13,19
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12:18,19,20,22
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17:25 18:7,8
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42:20
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6:21,24 9:25
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32:10 36:19
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purpose 5:18
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questions 6:23
6:25 7:13,16
8:5 10:1,2,4,6
10:6 24:10,11
24:11,14,23,24
25:1 37:6,10
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reasons 12:8
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revenues 9:12
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22:11,21 46:18
47:12,14,25
saw 27:1 47:17
48:20
say 27:22 36:6
37:25 39:20
41:12
saying 18:12
36:13
says 39:22
scenario 18:21
19:5
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schedules
42:19
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services 2:9 4:3
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shut 27:8,16
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story 28:7 29:16
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strategy 42:16
42:24
streamed 3:12
streams 11:11,13
40:19 46:15
Street 2:10
strength 21:13
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stuff 27:5,13,18
submit 5:10,24
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22:24
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substitute 26:9
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suggest 39:15
41:14 42:6
summer 8:16,16
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sure 8:8 14:18
16:4,5 17:1
18:20 20:18
21:3 23:20,21
23:25 29:19
33:12 37:1
40:18 42:10
44:21,25
surface 11:18
sustainable
22:11
swim 36:24
swimming 16:1
system 11:4,7,7
11:9 12:13 13:11
15:16 25:14
38:17 40:16
42:3 49:13
systems 25:25
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table 31:8
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14:3 15:4,18
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20:24 21:1
technologies
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24:10 25:10,10
37:22 39:3,15
40:19,24 43:6
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29:21,23 30:5
30:7,9 33:15
33:16,22 37:3
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11:14,16,19,20
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11:24,25 12:1,3
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12:10,11,12,13
12:14,16,18,18
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12:24,25 13:1,1
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13:12,15,16,16
13:21,22,23
14:1,3,4,6,11,13
14:15,21,24,25
14:25 15:2,5,7
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16:15,15,16,17
16:18,19,22,24
16:25 17:1,1,2
17:3,4,4,6,6,12
17:12,14,14,20
17:23,24 18:1,7
18:8,8,10,12,13
18:14,14,15,16
18:16,17,18,18
18:20,21,22
18:22,24 19:1
19:5,10,12,14
19:18,18,19,21
19:22 20:1,2,4
20:8,10,22,25
21:1,7,12,13,17
21:18,19,19,22
21:25,25 22:1
22:1,2,3,4,6,7
22:7,7,13,14,15
22:18,19,22
22:24,25 23:1
23:3,10,13,13
23:17,21,23,24
23:24,25 24:1
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24:16,19,20
24:23 25:2,7
25:8,8,9,10,10
25:14,14,15,15
25:15,16,16,16
25:17,18,18,20
25:20,21,22
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28:12,13,13,17
28:17,18,23
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24:3,5,5,7,13
24:15 25:6,12
27:6,10,18
28:7,8,14
30:22 31:10
31:20,22
32:10,10,21
33:8 35:20
36:3 37:14,25
38:1,1 42:10,16
43:9 47:2
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10:7 11:5,25
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16:14,21,23
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25:23 27:3
28:9 32:5
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13:18,23 16:24
17:1 19:24
23:11,24 26:18
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29:15 31:24
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Tish 30:11,11
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4:4,18 5:9,10
5:11 6:5,6,17
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9:5,9,15,17,24
10:10,23 11:3,8
11:10,11,12 12:1
12:5,10,12,14
13:2,2,3,5,7,9
13:10,10,14,16
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14:16,17,18
15:4,12,24
16:2,4,5,6,22
16:25 17:6,8,9
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18:10,12,13,14
18:22,23 19:1
19:6,7,8,10,13
19:13,16,16,20
19:20,21 20:1
20:10,13,19,24
21:1,3,5,6,6,8
21:10,15,23,24
22:1,1,5,11,15
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23:4,6,12,13,17
23:18,19,20
23:23,24,24
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26:16,17,23
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29:14,16,18,24
30:12,14,15,20
31:2,2,4,4,12
31:15,25 32:8
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32:18,18,20,21
32:24,24 33:3
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35:6,19,22
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21:10,11
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50:1
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34:17 39:13,16
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45:11
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46:6
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43:15 47:9
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35:24
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35:24
utilities 9:6 44:8
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utility 8:22 9:8
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40:14
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2017 20:4 48:19
2018 21:20
2019 1:10 4:15
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2020 8:17 17:13
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23:16 48:19
2021 17:16,25
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47:24
2022 17:16 18:2
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2023 17:17 18:3
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2024 8:17 17:18
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