HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 96 - Transcript of Prehearing Conference July 12, 2019 MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
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1 MEETING OF THE RATE COMMISSION
2 OF THE METROPOLITAN SEWER DISTRICT
3 2019 RATE CHANGE PROCEEDING
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8 PRE-HEARING CONFERENCE
9 JULY 12, 2019
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17 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
711 N. 11TH STREET
18 ST. LOUIS, MO 63101
(314) 644-2191
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Exhibit MSD 96
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1 A P P P E A R A N C E S
2 COMMISSIONERS:
3
Leonard Toenjes Stephen Mahfood
4 Jerry Beckmann Lloyd Palans
5 Paul Brockmann Tom Ratzki (via phone)
6 Mickey Croyle Mark Schoedel
7 Brad Goss Jack Stein
8 Chan Mahanta
9
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11 REPRESENTING METROPOLITAN SEWER DISTRICT:
12
13 Susan Myers
14
15
16 REPRESENTING THE RATE COMMISSION:
17
18 Lisa O. Stump
19 Brian J. Malone
20 Lashly & Baer, P.C.
21 714 Locust St.
22 St. Louis, MO 63101
23 314.436.8344//Lostump@lashlybaer.com
24
25
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1 A P P P E A R A N C E S
2 (continued)
3
4 REPRESENTING THE MISSOURI INDUSTRIAL ENERGY CONSUMERS
5 (MIEC):
6 Brandon W. Neuschafer
7 Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner LLP
8 One Metropolitan Square
9 211 North Broadway, Ste. 3600
10 St. Louis, MO 63102
11 314.259.2317//bwneuschafer@bclplaw.com
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13
14 ALSO PRESENT:
15 Bret Berthold Tim Snoke
16 Marion Gee Rich Unverferth
17 Brian Hoelscher Nicole Young
18 Pam Lemone Bill Stannard/Rafteus
19 Tim Snoke (via phone)
20
21 COURT REPORTER:
22 Julie Hundelt, CCR, CSR, RPR
23 Alaris Litigation Services
24 711 North 11th Street
25 St. Louis, Missouri 63101
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1 PROCEEDINGS:
2
3 (Starting time of the Pre-Hearing Conference 9:00 a.m.)
4
5 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: My name is Leonard
6 Toenjes, and I'm chair of the Rate Commission of the
7 Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District and will serve
8 as chair of this proceeding.
9 The Charter Plan of the District was
10 approved by the voters of St. Louis and St. Louis
11 County at a special election on February 9, 1954, and
12 amended at a general election on November 7, 2000.
13 The amendment to the Charter Plan established the Rate
14 Commission to review and make recommendations to the
15 District regarding changes in waste water rates, storm
16 water rates, and tax rates proposed by the District.
17 The Charter Plan requires the Board of
18 Trustees of the District to select organizations to
19 name delegates to the Rate Commission to ensure a fair
20 representation of all users of the District's
21 services. The Rate Commission representative
22 organizations are to represent commercial industrial
23 users, residential users, and other organizations
24 interested in the operation of the District including
25 organizations focusing on environmental issues, labor
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1 issues, socioeconomic issues, community neighborhood
2 organizations, and other nonprofit organizations.
3 The Rate Commission currently consists of
4 representatives of associated general contractors of
5 Missouri, St. Louis County Municipal League, Lutheran
6 Senior Services, St. Louis Council of Construction
7 Consumers, Greater St. Louis Labor Council, Missouri
8 Botanical Garden, Mound City Bar Association, League
9 of Women Voters of Metro St. Louis, Home Builders
10 Association, North County, Incorporated, Missouri
11 Coalition for the Environment, the City of Ladue,
12 Engineers Club of St. Louis, Missouri Industrial
13 Energy Consumers, and Education Plus.
14 Upon receipt of a rate change notice from
15 the District, the Rate Commission is to recommend to
16 the Board of Trustees changes in the waste water,
17 storm water, or tax rate necessary to pay interest and
18 principal falling due on bonds issued to finance
19 assets of the District, the cost of operation and
20 maintenance, and such amounts as may be required to
21 cover emergencies and anticipated delinquencies.
22 Further, any change in a rate recommended to
23 the Board of Trustees by the Rate Commission is to be
24 accompanied by a statement that the proposed rate
25 change is consistent with constitutional, statutory,
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1 or common law as amended from time to time; enhances
2 the District's ability to provide adequate sewer and
3 drainage systems and facilities or related services;
4 is consistent with and not in violation of any
5 covenant or provision relating to any outstanding
6 bonds or indebtedness of the District; does not impair
7 the ability of the District to comply with applicable
8 federal or state laws or regulations as amended from
9 time to time; and imposes a fair and reasonable burden
10 on all classes of ratepayers.
11 The Rate Commission received a rate change
12 notice from the District on March 4, 2019. Under the
13 District's Charter Plan, the Rate Commission must on
14 or before July 2, 2019, issue its report on the
15 proposed rate change notice to the Board of Trustees
16 of the District unless the Board of Trustees upon
17 application of the Rate Commission extends the period
18 of time for the issuance of the Rate Commission report
19 for an additional 45-day period.
20 At its meeting on March 14, 2019, the Board
21 of Trustees approved the Rate Commission's request for
22 an extension. The Rate Commission's report on the
23 proposed rate change must now be issued on or before
24 August 16, 2019.
25 Since March 4, 2019, the Rate Commission has
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1 received testimony from District staff, the
2 intervenor, and the rate consultant. The parties have
3 also engaged in discovery requests. Technical
4 conferences were held on April 8, 2019, May 9, 2019,
5 and June 20, 2019, where the participants and the Rate
6 Commission were given an opportunity to ask questions
7 of those submitting testimony.
8 The Charter Plan of the Metropolitan
9 St. Louis Sewer District and the operational rules and
10 procedural schedule of the Rate Commission of the
11 Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District provide for a
12 prehearing conference to identify, define, resolve or
13 settle the issues raised by the prepared testimony
14 and to ensure orderly and expeditious proceedings.
15 Each intervenor may participate in this
16 prehearing conference conducted on the record to
17 permit counsel for the District, each of the
18 intervenors, and the Rate Commission to briefly
19 describe the participant's position, if any, on each
20 of the criteria and factors identified in the Charter
21 Plan.
22 In the event participants are able to
23 revolve or settle any issues or issue raised in the
24 prepared testimony, such participants shall also
25 include as part of the prehearing conference report a
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1 joint recommendation describing each such issue, the
2 recommended resolution of the issues, and the
3 rationale therefor.
4 The Rate Commission is interested in the
5 views of the participants on the extent to which the
6 District's rate change proposal or any alternative
7 proposed by the participants meets or fails to meet
8 the criteria or factors for recommendation contained
9 in the Charter Plan.
10 To that end, and without requiring any
11 participant to act in a particular manner, each
12 participant is requested to make a short oral
13 presentation of the participant's respective position.
14 The parties may also submit a short, written summary
15 of the presentation, if desired.
16 The Commission's procedural schedule
17 provides that each participant of the prehearing
18 conference shall submit on or before July 19, 2019, a
19 prehearing conference report describing the issues
20 raised by the prepared testimony together with a brief
21 description of such participant's position, if any, on
22 each issue and the rationale therefor.
23 The Rate Commission has established a public
24 hearing session for the participants to be held on
25 July 24, 2019, at 9:00 a.m. at the District offices.
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1 The purpose of this public hearing session will
2 include permitting ratepayers to testify, receiving
3 into evidence any prepared testimony previously
4 submitted to the Commission subject to any valid
5 objections, together with discovery responses and
6 transcripts of the technical conferences, permitting
7 the Commission members to ask questions regarding any
8 issue addressed by the prepared testimony or any other
9 element of the proposed change and permitting closing
10 statements by the District, the intervenors, and legal
11 counsel for the Rate Commission.
12 In preparation for the July 24 hearing, the
13 District will distribute a current list of exhibits to
14 all parties by July 22, 2019.
15 Are there any procedural matters before we
16 proceed?
17 Hearing none, Ms. Myers, would you care to
18 address the Rate Commission on behalf of the District?
19 MS. MYERS: I certainly will.
20 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Please come forward.
21 MS. MYERS: Good morning. I'm going to
22 present the District's prehearing conference summary.
23 My name is Susan Myers, and I'm the general counsel
24 for the Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District.
25 As you all know, the District submitted a
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1 waste water rate change proposal to you on March 4 of
2 2019 proposing waste water rates for Fiscal Year '21
3 through Fiscal Year '24.
4 Although the District provided information
5 that contained projected rate increases after Fiscal
6 Year '24, for long-term future planning purposes, this
7 information is preliminary and was not subjected to
8 the same level of scrutiny and analysis that was
9 conducted to calculate the rates for FY21 through FY24
10 and is also outside the scope of the current proposal
11 being considered by the Rate Commission.
12 As proposed, the District's proposal meets
13 the five criteria outlined in the MSD Charter
14 Section 7.270. Now, the task at hand for you is to
15 consider all the evidence presented and issue a rate
16 recommendation report to the Board of Trustees that
17 also meets those five criteria.
18 Based upon the evidence as presented, there
19 seems to be four topics that warrant further
20 discussion:
21 Topic No. 1 involves the schedule required
22 to design and build the fluidized bin incinerators at
23 both the Lemay and Bissell treatment plants. MSD's
24 position is that the existing incinerators will be in
25 violation of the law without maintenance. Under the
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1 SSI rule, maintenance repairs are not an option and
2 the units have to be replaced.
3 MSD committed to EPA to follow the law and
4 replace the incinerators being constructed, beginning
5 construction in 2023 as a condition of a consent
6 decree amendment. The intervenor, MIEC, proposes that
7 we can request a consent decree extension from EPA at
8 any time or that MSD has discretion to move projects.
9 Your rate consultant agrees that MSD has
10 very little discretion to move projects in this rate
11 proposal including the incinerators. You all may
12 recall an inaccurate Channel 5 news report on the
13 impact of incinerators on the St. Louis area. If you
14 would like accurate information, please review the
15 entire interview on MSD's website.
16 It is MSD's position that moving the
17 incineration project construction start out past
18 Fiscal Year '23 will cause the District to not meet
19 Criteria 4 as it would impair the ability of the
20 District to comply with existing law.
21 Topic No. 2 involves how infiltration and
22 inflow should be allocated. The District testified
23 that the allocation of 40 percent to customer and
24 60 percent to volume has been in place since 2007 and
25 was found to be fair and reasonable in the 2007, 2011,
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1 and 2015 waste water Rate Commission processes.
2 The primary source for this information was
3 based on an I&I allocation study done in 2005.
4 However, an explanation of how that study was used to
5 arrive at the allocation factors was provided in the
6 District's 2007 rate proposal. MSD's experts
7 testified that they have not identified any change in
8 the character of the waste water system since this
9 study that would modify the allocation either up or
10 down.
11 MSD is committed to performing a new
12 I&I allocation study prior to the next rate proposal.
13 The new report will take into account the impact of
14 the removal of 189 sanitary sewer overflows.
15 85 percent removal since the start of the consent
16 decree. The intervenor proposes an arbitrary
17 allocation of 50 percent to customer and 50 percent to
18 volume. This proposal is not based upon any
19 supporting evidence or data.
20 Your rate consultant seems to agree with the
21 District that there has not been any evidence
22 presented to prove that the allocation from the study
23 has changed. At this time an arbitrary change to
24 the allocation would be in violation of Criteria 5 by
25 not being fair and reasonable to all classes of
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1 ratepayers.
2 Topic 3 involves the intervenor's proposal
3 that MSD should move $70 million from Fiscal Year '23
4 and from Fiscal Year '24 to lessen the waste water
5 rate increases projected per FY21 and FY -- for FY21
6 through FY24.
7 MSD has provided evidence, and again, your
8 rate consultant agrees, that we have very little
9 discretion to move any projects. Specifically, MSD
10 cannot delay the incineration project. District staff
11 has concluded that there is not $70 million in
12 projects that can responsibly be delayed in FY23 and
13 FY24 without a significant negative consequences.
14 Topic No. 4 involves the proposed
15 extra-strength surcharge. The extra-strength
16 surcharge proposed by MSD has been adjusted beginning
17 in Fiscal Year '21 so that the cost-to-service
18 customers subject to the surcharge are recovered, and
19 increases to the surcharge in Fiscal Year '22 through
20 Fiscal Year '24 are based on expected increases in O&M
21 expenses.
22 MSD experts acknowledge that there are other
23 methodologies that would also be considered fair and
24 reasonable. The intervenor suggests that an
25 across-the-board increase should be implemented. The
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1 difference between an across-the-board increase and an
2 increase based on O&M changes is very minimal.
3 However, an across-the-board increase would
4 result in higher rates than what is requested by MSD.
5 Please remember that during the current rate cycle,
6 Fiscal Year '17 through Fiscal Year '20, the MSD
7 customers not subject to this surcharge have been
8 subsidizing those customers that are subject to the
9 surcharge.
10 This subsidy would continue if the increase
11 was phased in over two years as recommended by the
12 rate consultant. As I stated at the beginning of my
13 statement, the task at hand for you all is to issue a
14 rate recommendation report to the MSD Board of
15 Trustees that meets the five criteria outlined in the
16 Charter.
17 Upon review of the complete record of these
18 proceedings, you will be able to determine that the
19 District proposal does just that. However, the
20 proposal provided by the intervenor cannot be
21 objectively evaluated due to numerous errors in their
22 financial modeling submitted by their consultant.
23 This concludes the District's official
24 statement. A copy of our statement will be filed as
25 Exhibit MSD92. Thank you.
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1 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you, Ms. Myers.
2 Do any member of the Rate Commission have
3 questions for Ms. Myers?
4 I have one, hearing none from anyone else.
5 You mentioned that you are going to perform
6 a new I&I study. Can you elaborate on the timeline
7 for that?
8 MS. MYERS: I'm going to ask -- is it Marion
9 or Brian?
10 MR. HOELSCHER: We are going to include that
11 in next year's fiscal budget and start the process as
12 quickly as we can. Compared to what we did
13 previously, there's a lot more tools available to us
14 such as more modeling tools and those types of things.
15 And so I think it's important for us to start right
16 after the start of next fiscal year which would be
17 July 1 next year. We'll budget for it in the next
18 fiscal year budget.
19 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: And how long does
20 that process take?
21 MR. HOELSCHER: So we want to start early
22 because to use the new tools, you also need
23 appropriate weather conditions to be able to make
24 those measurements. So I think it's important for us
25 to start as quickly as we can.
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1 If we have the right conditions, the data
2 can be gathered in a year. Our experience with
3 hydraulic data, sometimes you need two years or
4 something more. I think the point is for us to start
5 as early as we can to make sure we have the data and
6 use that to develop a rate proposal for Fiscal
7 Years '25 through '28.
8 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you. Yes,
9 Mr. Mahfood.
10 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Susan, I hate to do
11 this to you, but just to ask this question, could you
12 give me the CliffsNotes version of this Channel 5 and
13 MSD's response?
14 MS. MYERS: I'm going to turn that over to
15 Brian, also.
16 MR. HOELSCHER: Sorry. I was following up
17 on previous the one.
18 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: No. That's okay.
19 Talk about the -- can you do the -- kind of the
20 CliffsNotes version of this Channel 5 and whatever
21 program -- whatever their comments were about the
22 incinerators and what MSD's response was?
23 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. I'll try and do it
24 without getting into trouble. So -- so I would point
25 to one thing. I think if you saw the report,
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1 Channel 5, despite the information that was provided
2 to them, was willing to indicate that we incinerate
3 medical waste. The only medical waste we incinerate
4 is when the doctors and nurses go to the bathroom.
5 There are obviously other provisions for how
6 medical waste is disposed. There was other
7 information that we provided during the interviews, if
8 you watch the whole document, that you would see that
9 one of my staff -- yeah, I'll say. One of my staff
10 used to work for Channel 5. Said their reporting was
11 deliberately deceitful. We've had discussions with
12 Channel 5. We know that will not happen again.
13 But I think, having said that, since I was
14 asked, I think the response I gave to one of the
15 customers during one of the public presentations who
16 asked that question, I said, "Don't take my word for
17 it. Look at the full interview" because we taped the
18 entire interview as opposed to the sections they
19 showed.
20 Just that one individual who looked at it
21 said, "I apologize. You guys are right. There is no
22 issue there."
23 So I could say more than that, but I think
24 that's why we're indicating, please look at the
25 interview on our website, and you can see all the
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1 information that's there that's available.
2 Does that help?
3 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Very much so. And so
4 in conclusion, it was not comments made about the
5 quality of the technology as far as meeting EPA
6 requirements or state requirements, or maybe that was
7 not the crux of the -- or the current air quality
8 issues in St. Louis. More about site issues somebody
9 had come up with.
10 MR. HOELSCHER: So there is an overall --
11 and we've dealt with other entities who have done this
12 during the permitting process. When we go to EPA or
13 MDNR and request changes, there is a group that
14 oversights changes to air permits over everybody.
15 Industrial. Us.
16 We kind of got caught up with that. And
17 quite honestly, they knew this was out there, and I
18 assume most of you probably know that report occurred
19 during sweeps week for a reason on Channel 5. So I
20 think we're squared away with Channel 5. I know we're
21 squared away with some of the other entities that
22 approached us.
23 As a matter of fact, unknowingly, they were
24 actually recommending we do exactly what we were going
25 to do. They just didn't know that when MDNR would
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1 publish public comment for permits and stuff like
2 that.
3 So we had communications with Coalition for
4 the Environment, local aldermen. Everybody who was
5 involved, they understand what's going on, and they
6 don't have an issue with us proceeding forward.
7 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Thank you. Thanks.
8 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any further questions
9 for Ms. Myers?
10 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Brian, I understand
11 that MSD does not intentionally burn medical waste.
12 However, I have a question. We read that a lot of
13 people, not thinking or carelessly, flush down toxic
14 medical medicines and stuff like that, like, cancer
15 treatment medications, stuff like that.
16 When those things get burned in the
17 incinerators, is there any way to track those
18 effluents into the air?
19 MR. HOELSCHER: So I'm going to give you
20 answers around that question because I don't have a
21 direct answer to your question. I would put you, just
22 in the industry, I would suggest -- first of all, in
23 our process, we have discharge permits with all these
24 entities including hospitals, including industrial
25 producers.
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1 Not only you guys are experiencing the
2 surcharge issue we had with BOD and suspended solids,
3 we also have restrictions on what they can put in the
4 sewer. Most industries have some kind of pretreatment
5 system specific to their industries where they
6 pretreat things, and we regularly monitor that they're
7 in compliance with those permits.
8 There are things occurring. There is --
9 they're called emerging contaminants. There are
10 issues with drugs. We are currently -- if anybody
11 heard of PFAS other than Mr. Mahfood, the material
12 that keeps your -- and other people -- the material
13 that keeps your weatherproof on your -- that's causing
14 an issue.
15 A lot of those don't show up in
16 incineration. Where they show up is in landfill
17 sludge and where those are going to be getting into
18 the environment. So these new -- I don't have an
19 answer exactly for you. Do we check for those as part
20 of the incineration process? I don't know.
21 I will tell you the permit, in general, for
22 these new incinerators are ten times stricter than
23 what we have with the existing incineration. Both the
24 permit right now today -- current system is going to
25 go out very quickly. But I don't -- I don't have and
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1 I don't know that we have an expert sitting here who
2 can tell you we actually monitor for household
3 pharmaceuticals that go down the sewer system showing
4 up in the incinerators. I don't have an answer for
5 that one.
6 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Okay.
7 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any questions from
8 any of the other Rate Commissioners?
9 Hearing none. Ms. Myers, thank you.
10 MS. MYERS: Thank you.
11 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Mr. Neuschafer, would
12 you care to address the Rate Commission on behalf of
13 Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers?
14 MR. NEUSCHAFER: I would. Thank you.
15 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Please come forward.
16 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Thank you. As you're all
17 aware, I'm Brandon Neuschafer, and I represent the
18 Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers. I have no
19 intention of rehashing all of the arguments outlined
20 in the testimony and the prehearing conference reports
21 that'll be submitted next week. You'll see a much
22 deeper explanation of our position on these issues
23 with support from the record at that point in time.
24 But I do want to take this opportunity to
25 raise a few issues. Some of them are the same issues
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1 that Ms. Myers raised, but there are a few additional
2 issues that we would like the Rate Commission to
3 carefully consider.
4 MSD's duty is to propose a program that is,
5 among other things, fair and reasonable to all classes
6 of ratepayers. And Rate Commission's role in this
7 proceeding is to hold MSD to that standard.
8 Regrettably, what the CIRP has proposed is neither
9 fair nor reasonable, and Rate Commission should make
10 recommendations to remedy that.
11 We're suggesting a few modifications to
12 MSD's rate proposal to help ensure that it is fair and
13 reasonable to all classes of ratepayers.
14 First, MIEC is proposing to shift
15 approximately $70 million worth of projects scheduled
16 for Fiscal Years '23 and '24 to Fiscal Years '25 and
17 '26. Very importantly, we are not suggesting that any
18 project should not be completed or that the consent
19 decree of regulatory obligation should be ignored. I
20 want to make clear that is not our position at all.
21 We're simply indicating that shifting
22 projects helps avoid a significant spike in revenue
23 requirements in the latter two years of the current
24 program and thus helps prevent consumer rates from
25 increasing dramatically during that same time period.
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1 So it's our position that MSD has yet to
2 adequately explain why this shift in project timing
3 cannot occur beyond providing summary conclusions that
4 they don't think it's possible.
5 Sure, it may require MSD to roll up their
6 sleeves and put pen to paper and do some work to
7 adjust timelines, but we think that's work that's
8 necessary to ensure that the rates and the rate
9 increases that are imposed are done so at a measured,
10 level, fair, and reasonable manner.
11 Second, MSD must more carefully establish
12 its debt service coverage ratio. Historically, the
13 debt service coverage ratio has been set at a minimum
14 of 1.6x, and MSD now seeks to set the minimum ratio up
15 to 1.8x. MSD cites reported concerns from a rating
16 agency as the basis for this change notwithstanding
17 that earned rates of 1.7x to 1.9x should be sufficient
18 to maintain credit ratings.
19 This is important because MSD's historical
20 performance shows that they have an earned DSC several
21 tenths higher than the established minimum. By
22 significantly raising the minimum debt service
23 coverage ratio, the impact is that the earned debt
24 service coverage ratio would be much higher than
25 necessary to support credit ratings which means MSD is
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1 collecting more money from consumers than needed. The
2 result is neither fair nor reasonable to any class of
3 MSD's customers.
4 Third, MSD should not so dramatically shift
5 the debt-equity mix of its funding program. MSD's
6 historical debt-equity mix has been 75 percent debt
7 and 25 percent equity or PAYGO, as we've also heard it
8 referred to. But MSD now seeks to shift to 60 percent
9 debt and 40 percent equity.
10 While MIEC recognizes that additional equity
11 funding is necessary, such a dramatic shift is
12 unnecessary and unfairly and unreasonably burdens
13 customers. As modeling of MIEC's proposal is
14 demonstrated, a 70 percent equity and 30 percent debt
15 allocation is a much more fair and reasonable
16 proposal.
17 Fourth, MSD should adjust the allocation of
18 infiltration and inflow, or I&I, from 40 percent on
19 the basis of number of customers in a class and
20 60 percent on the proportion of each class's
21 contribution to a 50/50 split.
22 MSD's allocation is based on data in a study
23 that is more than 25 years old, which the data itself
24 does not even clearly support a 40/60 split. Even
25 MSD's own consultants recognize that the data is old
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1 and needs to be updated. I've heard today that MSD is
2 committing to updating that data.
3 The Rate Commission's own consultant,
4 Ms. Kumar, agrees that the allocation used by MSD
5 allocates a higher proportion of the I&I cost to
6 volume than MSD's pier systems. I&I costs are largely
7 driven by size and number of connections to the
8 system.
9 Given the geographical expansive nature of
10 the St. Louis Metropolitan Sewer District as well as
11 more recent studies indicating I&I allocations at
12 comparable sewer Districts, a 50/50 split is a fair
13 and reasonable allocation amongst all customers of the
14 cost of services associated with I&I. This split
15 provides another benefit in that it will produce a
16 more stable and predictable revenue stream for MSD,
17 and surely, we can all see the benefit in that
18 approach.
19 Finally, MSD proposes dramatically
20 increasing extra-strength surcharges in a manner that
21 is neither fair nor reasonable to subject customers.
22 Rather than a rate shocking increase in 2021 followed
23 by annual increases, MSD should either impose an
24 across-the-board increase or phase in necessary
25 extra-strength surcharges.
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1 MSD attempts to justify this increase by
2 explaining that only a small percentage of customers
3 are impacted, but I remind you that rates must be fair
4 and reasonable on all classes of customers, not just
5 some classes of customers. This is yet another
6 conclusion supported by the Rate Commission's own
7 expert, Ms. Kumar.
8 A key thing throughout this proceeding is
9 that MSD dismisses every attempt to refine their
10 estimated revenue requirements, their modeling, and
11 their rate proposal. MSD appears to be in a defensive
12 mode, not a mode of accepting input from customers and
13 the Rate Commission that are designed to present more
14 accurate revenue requirements or a more fair and
15 reasonable rate structure. These are not the
16 insurmountable issues that MSD makes them out to be.
17 Sure, MSD has an obligation to comply with
18 consent to create other regulatory requirements. We
19 also appreciate MSD's interest in protecting its
20 credit rating. But MSD also has an obligation to its
21 customers -- all of its customers -- to structure a
22 program in a way that protects customers and ensures
23 that customers aren't paying higher rates than they
24 need to pay. This may mean not adding in layer after
25 layer after layer of cushion premised on the most
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1 conservative judgment calls.
2 That's why the Rate Commission is so vital.
3 The Rate Commission serves as a check on MSD and needs
4 to perform the critical role of pressing MSD to ensure
5 that the rate proposal is fair and reasonable to all
6 classes of customers. This means ensuring that MSD
7 has properly calculated its revenue requirements and
8 properly structured a rate program that takes into
9 account consumer input and fairness and equity to all
10 customers. This may also means that MSD needs to do
11 additional work to make refinements -- to project
12 timing, to its rate proposal, or elsewhere -- but
13 where such adjustments result in a proposal that is
14 fair and reasonable to the customers. Such
15 adjustments must be made.
16 Despite some of the change -- the statements
17 we've heard, these proposed changes are not minor or
18 immaterial. Especially when considered together, they
19 have a real impact, a positive impact on the
20 ratepayers, and provide a fair and reasonable approach
21 for rate setting for all classes of customers while at
22 the same time allowing for MSD to meet its legal
23 obligations and maintain its credit standing.
24 We thank you for your consideration and look
25 forward to submittal of our papers next week.
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1 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you,
2 Mr. Neuschafer.
3 Questions from any of the Rate Commissioners
4 for Mr. Neuschafer?
5 I hate for you not to have any questions.
6 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Fire away.
7 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: The Item 1, the
8 $70 million shift, is that based on specific projects,
9 or is that based on a dollar amount?
10 MR. NEUSCHAFER: It's both. Certainly, at
11 70 million, I think we would say that 70 million is a
12 good target. You know, recognize that it may not be
13 exactly 70 million. But I want to -- I do want to
14 make clear that this is not just about the fluidized
15 bed of the incinerators. We think there may be some
16 room for adjustment in the timelines of those
17 programs, but we think that there are other projects
18 that are being proposed by MSD during this time period
19 that can be shifted as well to -- to reach
20 approximately $70 million.
21 We'll provide more detail on that next week.
22 I don't have specific project, you know, timing and
23 numbers and identification with me right now. But we
24 will provide some of that detail next week, and it is
25 not just about the incinerators.
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1 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you.
2 Mr. Mahfood.
3 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Will the -- what
4 you're going to submit next week give us an idea of
5 what you're proposing as the difference in rates
6 between what MSD is -- not just the detail, but the
7 final rates? Will you address that issue at all?
8 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Yeah. We can -- we can
9 provide some of that information. Certainly, the
10 modeling as far as the revenue requirements, so how
11 much money we have to take in, when MIEC modeled that,
12 and then when MSD performed their modeling that was in
13 the recent discovery responses, those were really
14 consistent as far as the revenue requirements that
15 would be needed.
16 So we can -- we can certainly provide some
17 more information on what we see the impact on the rate
18 to be.
19 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Thank you.
20 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Mr. Goss.
21 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Mr. Neuschafer, MSD's
22 position is that your adjustment to I&I factor 50/50
23 is arbitrary and that you have no evidence to support
24 that adjustment. How do you respond to that, and how
25 do you respond to MSD's position which I think is the
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1 60/40 is supported by evidence?
2 MR. NEUSCHAFER: I think there are a number
3 of responses that we make. First off, the data is
4 old. The system has changed a lot in the
5 25-plus years since that data was collected and
6 generated. I think when you look at pier systems, the
7 Indianapolis system has been mentioned. There's a
8 listing study -- in the record there are some studies
9 comparing or looking at other systems as well.
10 You'll see that, actually, MSD's
11 current allocation, while it may be consistent with
12 something like the Kansas City system, if I remember
13 correctly, there are a number of systems with which it
14 is not consistent. In fact, those systems are rated
15 much more heavily in favor of number of customers and
16 weighting the allocation to number of customers as
17 opposed to volume.
18 And so I think we have to consider the
19 nature of the data we've got, that MSD reports
20 supports a 40/60 split, which I don't think we believe
21 the support is there. They believe is there.
22 The nature of the St. Louis system, which is
23 very large -- we've heard many times it's the largest
24 in the country, one of the most, I guess,
25 geographically diffuse systems in the country --
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1 the -- what causes infiltration and inflow which is
2 the size of the system and number of connections which
3 is directly related to the number of customers, not
4 volume.
5 And when you look at pier systems and where
6 pier systems are currently at, I think you've got a
7 combination of factors that indicate that
8 MSD's allocation is -- even if it might have been
9 acceptable, you know, 10 or 15 or 20 years ago, it's
10 no longer reflective of what is fair and reasonable to
11 ratepayers.
12 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Just to follow up. If I
13 understand MSD's position, they believe the Kansas
14 City system is the most comparable of other systems to
15 compare to, in part, if I recall the testimony
16 correctly, is because it's a Missouri-located system
17 and it's large as opposed to the St. Joseph system
18 which was mentioned.
19 Do you believe -- do you agree with that,
20 that that's the most comparable system, or do you
21 think that the Indianapolis system or some other
22 system is more comparable, and why, if that's true?
23 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Yeah. I think it's
24 interesting that MSD's experts selected the St. Joseph
25 system which was one of ten mentioned in the testimony
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1 to say, well, that indicates that everything else
2 isn't relevant because St. Joseph is so much different
3 than St. Louis, which I strongly -- the elimination of
4 one, if St. Joseph is not comparable to St. Louis,
5 which I understand it's a smaller -- smaller city, and
6 it's not as geographically diffuse as the St. Louis
7 system -- but eliminating that one from the analysis
8 doesn't mean all the others are irrelevant.
9 Without having the data in front of me right
10 now about size and age and number of connections on
11 the Kansas City system versus the Indianapolis system
12 versus one of the other seven or so that are
13 mentioned, I can't say that I agree with MSD that
14 Kansas City is the most relevant comparison.
15 And I think when I pushed their expert on
16 cross-examination, I found it very difficult to get
17 any clarity as to why he felt like it was most
18 comparable other than sort of high-level statements
19 about, well, it's got similar geography and climate.
20 I don't know that those are the only factors that have
21 to be taken into account.
22 Indianapolis is geographically not much
23 farther away than Kansas City. It's about the same
24 distance, the size of the system. We'll provide some
25 data on that to show, perhaps, Kansas City is not the
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1 most comparable system and that there's -- that
2 Indianapolis might be more comparable than Kansas
3 City.
4 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Will you be supplying
5 data to support that the other -- assuming that you
6 drop an outlier, calling St. Joseph an outlier for the
7 sake of the conversation, that your other nine systems
8 would create a more comparable group of systems?
9 MR. NEUSCHAFER: I don't know that we'll be
10 providing data on all nine from the other systems.
11 But we will be providing some data to indicate that
12 those other systems might be just as, if not more,
13 comparable to Kansas City.
14 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Thank you.
15 MR. NEUSCHAFER: I think it's important to
16 note that they only refuted one of the remaining
17 nine systems. And I don't know -- I don't know that
18 it behooves us to get into a very detailed discussion
19 of all ten of those systems, but refuting one and
20 suggesting on your own that one other is more
21 relevant, I don't find that to be a comprehensive or
22 persuasive response.
23 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Thank you.
24 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you, Mr. Goss.
25 Mr. Palans.
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1 COMMISSIONER PALANS: Thank you.
2 Mr. Neuschafer, in your response that you filed on
3 behalf of MIEC recently, that is, Exhibit 90A, it's a
4 response to the first discovery request of the Rate
5 Commission, you -- you reference the Black & Veatch
6 study. It's a Black & Veatch attachment dated
7 June 21, 2018. And in that study, you -- the study
8 indicates that Black & Veatch allocates System II to
9 customer classes using a combination number of
10 customers, connections, contributed volume.
11 And then it goes on to say in that study
12 that the II analysis incorporates several elements
13 including length of waste water system mains, diameter
14 of mains, number of connections, and contributed
15 volume.
16 What do we have in our record to cause us to
17 change our view that the District's recommendation is
18 not reasonable when we have, as I understand it, no
19 evidence in our record as to any of these other
20 factors -- length of the system mains, diameter of
21 mains, number of connections, and contributed volume?
22 Aren't we just guessing at that point?
23 MR. NEUSCHAFER: If I could, can I consult
24 with our rate consultant who is here? I think that
25 will help me get a better answer.
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1 COMMISSIONER PALANS: Sure.
2 (Whereupon, a break was taken off the
3 record.)
4 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Mr. Palans, I think some of
5 that information is in the record. I don't have the
6 direction to it now. We will make sure that we
7 address this point in the papers that we file next
8 week.
9 COMMISSIONER PALANS: My point being that we
10 have a recommendation of a 60/40 split, and I would
11 like you to point to the aspects of the record that
12 would support changing that 60/40 split. We
13 understand that it is based upon a 2005 -- your
14 25-year-old study, but what is there in the record to
15 reflect that that's wrong? What evidence do we have
16 today to say that is wrong?
17 MR. NEUSCHAFER: And I'd first refer you to
18 my -- the answer that I just gave to Mr. Goss, but
19 we'll -- we'll provide more direction to -- to the
20 record.
21 COMMISSIONER PALANS: I don't want to just
22 guess. I want to understand.
23 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Yeah.
24 COMMISSIONER PALANS: The other aspect of it
25 is that the Black & Veatch study that you attached
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1 indicates that the majority of the utilities that are
2 referenced -- there's nine different utilities that
3 are identified in the II, that other waste water
4 utilities allocate percentages to between volume and
5 customer. They indicate that the majority of these
6 utilities are not regulated by state public utility
7 commissions, but they are established on the basis of
8 consultant recommendations or via their own policy
9 decisions.
10 So I would like to have your consultant
11 indicate based upon data what the allocation should be
12 as opposed to what you might like it to be.
13 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Understood.
14 COMMISSIONER PALANS: Thank you.
15 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you,
16 Mr. Palans.
17 Mr. Goss.
18 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Just to follow up on
19 Mr. Palans' question, do you know or know where in the
20 record the data is on the dollars spent by MSD on
21 addressing I&I issues since the last several rate
22 increases? Have you -- are you able to find that data
23 so we have an idea of how much has been spent on
24 improvements to this system and where we stand to date
25 on actual improvements to the system?
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1 I think MSD said by the next -- by the end
2 of this rate, they'll be at the 85 percent threshold.
3 Do we know in the record where we are today? And the
4 follow-up to that is, does it make a difference such
5 that the 2005 data or study would no longer be an
6 accurate reflection of I&I, thus necessitating some
7 different ratio as you suggest.
8 MR. NEUSCHAFER: I can't point to that in
9 the record right now. We'll look into that.
10 COMMISSIONER GOSS: I understand. That's
11 something that I think is factual data. I don't know
12 if it's in the record or not. It may be responsive to
13 Mr. Palans' question so that's why I'm asking the
14 follow-up.
15 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: I would also suggest
16 that we ask Ms. Lamone to --
17 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Yeah. Absolutely.
18 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: -- perform some
19 analysis on that particular issue also.
20 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Absolutely.
21 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any further questions
22 for Mr. Neuschafer?
23 Mr. Neuschafer, I certainly thank you for
24 your thoroughness and professionalism. Thank you very
25 much. I appreciate it.
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1 Mr. Malone, would you like to address the
2 Rate Commission as the Rate Commission's legal
3 counsel?
4 MR. MALONE: Yes, sir.
5 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Please come forward.
6 MR. MALONE: Good morning, everyone. As the
7 Rate Commission's legal counsel, our role here is a
8 little bit different. Our primary responsibility is
9 to assist you with preparing a report on the
10 District's rate change proposal identifying whether
11 the rate change proposal complies with the
12 three Charter criteria as well as the five factors for
13 recommendation that are set forth in MSD's Charter.
14 In reviewing the record, in anticipation of
15 this meeting, we've identified approximately
16 nine issues that warrant further consideration, and
17 the fact that these factors -- a number of them have
18 already been discussed today by Ms. Myers and
19 Mr. Neuschafer, and we intend to address them in a
20 little bit greater depth in the report that we'll be
21 filing next week.
22 So the first issue we identified as the
23 affecting the Charter criterion factors is the
24 appropriateness of the ratio of cash to debt necessary
25 to finance the certain projects, and that also has
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1 already been mentioned by Ms. Myers and
2 Mr. Neuschafer.
3 As you know, MSD is proposing a 40 percent
4 cash, 60 percent debt ratio, and MIEC has indicated
5 that, historically, the District has used a 25 to
6 75 percent ratio. And Mr. Neuschafer testified
7 earlier that a 30/70 ratio would be more appropriate.
8 MSD has indicated that such a ratio could
9 affect its credit rating, affect its reserves. The
10 rate consultant has put forth in testimony to this
11 mission that the 40/60 ratio would be consistent with
12 best practices and would be reasonable assuming that
13 the voters approve the appropriate amount of bonding.
14 Mr. Neuschafer also indicated that the 40/60
15 ratio is an outcome rather than an input or something
16 that was predetermined. And then the next issue
17 identified is the appropriate amount of debt service
18 coverage, the assumptions regarding interest rates
19 that the district has made. As you know, the District
20 is proposing a 1.8 ratio and 2.5 for senior lien
21 bonds.
22 MIEC has suggested that a 1.6 times ratio
23 would be more appropriate and more fair and
24 reasonable. And MIEC has also put forth some
25 testimony that the District has been overly
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1 conservative in its assumptions regarding interest
2 rates. The rate consultant has testified that the
3 1.8 ratio, 2.5 for senior lien bonds is appropriate,
4 and again, that's an outcome rather than driving the
5 rate increase.
6 The third issue identified is whether
7 appropriate escalation factors and assumptions
8 regarding operations of maintenance have been utilized
9 by the District --
10 (The court reporter asked for
11 clarification.)
12 So the third issue is whether or not the
13 District has used appropriate escalation factors and
14 assumptions regarding operations of maintenance. The
15 rate consultant has -- believes that the operations of
16 maintenance escalation factors and debt finance
17 assumptions were reasonable.
18 The next issue is whether or not the cash
19 flow and debt service coverage would permit compliance
20 with the three criteria in the Charter regarding
21 paying interest and principal and outstanding bonds,
22 providing for operations of maintenance, and providing
23 reasonable debt service coverage and reserves. The
24 rate consultant found that the cash flow and debt
25 service coverage would be sufficient to meet those
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1 Charter criteria.
2 The next factor we identified is whether
3 there is appropriate gradualism in the rate increases.
4 The rate consultant believed that the potentially
5 higher anticipated increases in 2025 could cause some
6 rate shock. And that could be mitigated by more
7 gradual increases during the rate cycle.
8 As Ms. Myers testified earlier this morning,
9 she indicated that possible rates for 2025 and beyond
10 is speculative and has not been the same level of
11 rigor and analysis applied to what those rates may
12 ultimately be because they're beyond the rate cycle
13 being considered by this Commission.
14 The next issue has been discussed earlier
15 this morning is whether the I&I ratio, 40 percent
16 customer, 60 percent volume, is appropriate. MIEC has
17 suggested that a 50/50 ratio would be fair and
18 reasonable and that the 40/60 ratio is based on data
19 that's out of date, and as was discussed a few moments
20 ago, a new study will be forthcoming on that for the
21 next rate cycle. And the rate consultant did testify
22 that the 40/60 percent ratio could allocate too much
23 to volumes point of view.
24 The next topic would be whether the CIRP
25 projects are appropriate and whether the cost
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1 estimations are reasonable. MIEC has proposed moving
2 roughly $70 million out of Fiscal Year '23, '24 to
3 Fiscal Year '25, '26. MSD, as you know, has stated
4 that the projects can't really be moved out of CIRP
5 without jeopardizing compliance with the consent
6 decree and other regulatory requirements. And the
7 rate consultant agreed that there is -- there is
8 little flexibility that MSD has to move projects out
9 of the current rate cycle.
10 And then Issue No. 8 is whether or not the
11 extra-strength surcharges are appropriate, whether an
12 increase across the board or spike in the first year
13 as proposed by MSD would be appropriate. The rate
14 consultant recommended considering phasing in the
15 extra-strength surcharge increases over at least
16 two years along with an across-the-board approach as
17 opposed to a significant jump in the surcharge rates.
18 And then the final issue that we've
19 identified is whether or not the rate change proposal
20 is consistent with federal, state, and common laws
21 made from time to time. That has not been a major
22 focus of the proceedings thus far. The District has
23 indicated that they've used the same methodology as
24 was -- as was found to be reasonable in the Missouri
25 Growth Association by the case in the Missouri Supreme
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1 Court back in, I believe, 1997. And I don't think
2 there had been any testimony presented to the
3 Commission to the contrary.
4 So those are the main issues that we intend
5 to focus on in our prehearing conference report, and
6 again, we will flush those out in greater detail in
7 that report, and in our final report we will indicate
8 how these issues affect the Charter criteria.
9 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Are there any
10 questions from any of the Rate Commissioners for
11 Mr. Malone?
12 I will be the lead-off hitter again on this
13 final issue about the consistency with federal, state,
14 common law. Beings as that's the first time we've
15 heard that, where does that sort of come from?
16 MR. MALONE: Well, it's just something that
17 was focused on. I believe Ms. Myers indicated in her
18 testimony that the rate change proposal uses the same
19 methodology that was used in their prior rate
20 increases. For instance, I think there was some
21 testimony about measuring water usage excluding the --
22 based on the winter months when lawns aren't being
23 watered, and you can get an approximation of water
24 usage that is actually going into MSD's systems as
25 opposed to going into yards or any other areas and
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1 indexing the rates based on that amount of water
2 usage.
3 That's something we wanted to cover just
4 because consistency with federal, state, and common
5 law is, of course, important criteria that must be
6 considered. And that was discussed in a case in the
7 Missouri Supreme Court, MSD's methodology. And the
8 Court found that to be appropriate in that case.
9 And obviously, consistency with the law,
10 also compliance with consent decree, compliance with
11 regulatory requirements is also something that is
12 driving the District's decision-making about what
13 projects needing to be included in the CIRP and when.
14 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: So that could include
15 some discussion of this incinerator issue?
16 MR. MALONE: It could. For sure.
17 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any further questions
18 for Mr. Malone?
19 Thank you.
20 Are there any other matters for discussion
21 this morning?
22 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Are we going to
23 have similar statements from our rate consultant, or
24 did legal represent our rate consultant?
25 MS. STUMP: We represented our rate
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1 consultant. Pam and Brian and I had conversations
2 before compiling that list, but certainly, if you have
3 questions for your rate consultant, you're free to ask
4 them to her directly.
5 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Does anybody have --
6 Yes, Mr. Goss.
7 COMMISSIONER GOSS: I do have one. The
8 spike issue. The spike of rates in 2025. And MSD's
9 position is that this is really speculative, and based
10 on this proposed rate, which is much less than what
11 was anticipated when we adopted the sewer rate
12 four years ago, because I remember what it was
13 supposed to be going to. That's not happening here,
14 which makes me somewhat sympathetic to the speculative
15 argument.
16 Can you respond to that?
17 MS. LEMONE: Certainly understand that the
18 level of scrutiny of the CIRP in particular and as
19 well as O&M and so forth. Going out farther in time,
20 it becomes more speculative and because the focus and
21 the proposal is for the years '21 through '24, I
22 understand that MSD didn't scrutinize that analysis
23 out that far in advance.
24 But I still think it warrants at least an
25 understanding and awareness that, because of the
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1 nature of additional debt being taken on, the existing
2 debt service and what the revenue requirements might
3 be out in the future, there is that potential for an
4 impact in 2025 in the future.
5 I think I've stated before, perhaps, that
6 because the rates this time are significantly lower in
7 my mind, the potential flexibility to have that rate
8 in '25 be substantially lower, basically half of what
9 they're thinking it might be, perhaps could be less
10 than what it actually might be in the future.
11 Interest rates are low now, you know, all the various
12 things that are optimistic or favorable right now. So
13 it is speculative. But it's something just to keep in
14 mind.
15 COMMISSIONER GOSS: And correct me if I'm
16 wrong, if my memory of this testimony is incorrect.
17 But what I recall is that in the prior rate, the same
18 issue was present, and there was an adjustment made by
19 the Commission and the Board in the surcharge increase
20 and that that resulted in a subsidy, the way it's
21 being described, by the other ratepayers to be
22 customers who would be paying a surcharge.
23 I think -- is my memory of that right?
24 MS. LEMONE: So with regard to the
25 extra-strength surcharges?
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1 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Yes.
2 MS. LEMONE: Yes. The proposed methodology
3 for increasing extra-strength surcharge rates for this
4 rate proposal is consistent with last time. In other
5 words, cost of service study is done in Year 1. Rates
6 are based on cost of service, and then in Years 2, 3,
7 and 4, rates are increased for extra-strength
8 surcharges based on the projected change in O&M costs.
9 So for this, the cycle that we're in now
10 that we're just finishing through 2020, because the
11 overall increases needed were substantially higher
12 than O&M, that's what has led to this large increase
13 in extra-strength surcharges for '21, again, to bring
14 them back to cost of service.
15 In Years '22 through '24, they're proposing
16 again to change those rates based on O&M versus an
17 across-the-board general revenue increase needs, and
18 as was stated previously, the difference between those
19 two approaches is not substantial this time compared
20 to the last rate cycle. But the across-the-board
21 increases are somewhat higher than what the O&M
22 projection is.
23 COMMISSIONER GOSS: So is it -- is it
24 reasonable to take MSD's position -- I don't want to
25 mischaracterize it. If I am, correct me -- that using
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1 the across-the-board is more likely to create another
2 subsidy and that instead using their methodology is --
3 since they're not dramatically different -- is a
4 better way to help these surcharges -- or you can
5 budget these surcharges.
6 MS. LEMONE: I think their position is that
7 going to cost of service for '21, in other words, a
8 much larger increase in extra-strength surcharges,
9 eliminates that subsidy in Year 1 whereas phasing in
10 that change over a couple of years would continue that
11 subsidy by other customers until they would get to
12 full cost of service recovery.
13 So with that for 2021, then the methodology
14 for raising rates on an across-the-board basis versus
15 O&M, it has the potential to have -- again, the
16 difference isn't as great this time.
17 The two increases are fairly close, but by
18 increasing extra-strength surcharges only based on O&M
19 and not any reflection of increases in costs for
20 capital, there is the potential in 2025, again, for
21 the cost of service analysis to show that the '25
22 rates for extra-strength surcharges could be higher
23 than the average systemwide increase.
24 COMMISSIONER GOSS: So let me make sure I
25 understood that. What I understand you to have said
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1 is if we go to an across-the-board increase in the
2 surcharges as opposed to what MSD is proposing, the
3 subsidy will continue -- that's what I heard you
4 say -- for at least a year or two years.
5 MS. LEMONE: If the across-the-board
6 increase in '21 were to be in place, that is true.
7 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Right. So that means
8 the subsidy continues. Now when I hear that, that
9 sounds to me like we are not complying with the
10 criteria of fair and reasonable rates across all
11 classes of ratepayers because we're acknowledging that
12 a subsidy is occurring. And the reason that we're
13 justifying that is because of a possible spike in 2025
14 which we all, at least all the experts I've heard,
15 have said is speculative. And so I have trouble with
16 that change because of that.
17 I don't see how we are meeting our criteria
18 of fair and reasonableness, and particularly, we're
19 doing that to avoid an out-year spike that we don't
20 even know will occur.
21 MS. LEMONE: I think there are two different
22 things that we're talking about here. One is the
23 overall general systemwide increase. So not looking
24 at rates specifically for the base and volume charges
25 or the rates for the extra strength surcharge, but
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1 just the system the utilities revenue needs. That's
2 the spike that we're talking about in 2025 that MSD
3 has stated is speculative at this point in time. So
4 that's -- so that's one piece of it.
5 And then when we talk about the
6 extra-strength surcharges and the different approaches
7 for setting those rates in Year '21 and then in
8 Years '22 through '24. That's a different topic.
9 MSD's proposal is to go to cost of service for
10 extra-strength surcharges in Year 1 to eliminate the
11 subsidy.
12 I had stated in my testimony that because
13 that increase is so significant that it could be
14 reasonable -- it could be reasonable to phase that in.
15 It's an accepted industry approach that in order to
16 mitigate undue burden for customer classes, utilities
17 would oftentimes phase those in. So that's a
18 consideration.
19 MSD has stated that by doing, that it
20 continues the subsidy until the point in time that
21 phase-in is complete and that is a true statement.
22 COMMISSIONER GOSS: In the record, do we
23 have data that tells us what the difference in the
24 impact on an industrial producer would be if we went
25 to an across-the-board as opposed to what MSD is
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1 proposing?
2 I mean, you've said to me that the
3 difference isn't much, but I don't want -- I don't
4 want to mischaracterize what you said, but I want to
5 know what, you know, if what I meant -- what we are
6 trying to avoid just shock, if you will, to the
7 industrial producers. And so -- but I don't have any
8 sense of what that means, you know, dollars,
9 percentage dollars. I just don't have any feel for
10 that based on what I remember from --
11 MS. LEMONE: And just to be clear on what I
12 said, there isn't much difference. I'm speaking to
13 the Years 2, 3, and 4 after the cost of service rates
14 are in place. In Years 2, 3, and 4, increasing
15 extra-strength surcharges based on O&M escalation
16 versus across-the-board is not substantially
17 different.
18 To the issue of what happens in '21, whether
19 extra-strength surcharges go to the cost of service,
20 whether they increase it on an across-the-board basis
21 or there's some sort of phase-in, that's a
22 different -- different topic than what I had spoken to
23 about not much difference. I'm not aware if those
24 analyses and calculations are on the record or not. I
25 would have to look and see.
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1 I know that MIEC had provided in some of
2 their testimony their proposal which included rates.
3 I would have to look at that again. Again, it was --
4 we might have to model that ourselves because I
5 couldn't tell how the rates that they proposed were
6 calculated, and the way they were input into the model
7 makes it a little difficult to evaluate that impact.
8 But we could -- we could definitely look at that
9 further.
10 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Because if that's
11 accurate, then to Mr. Palans' line of questioning, we
12 don't have any facts in the record to say MSD got it
13 wrong or what MSD is proposing is incorrect. Is that
14 true?
15 MS. LEMONE: That's correct. What they have
16 proposed is a fair and reasonable approach to go to
17 cost of service in Year 1 for extra-strength
18 surcharges. We have a little bit of a different --
19 their approach in Years 2, 3, and 4 for extra-strength
20 doesn't reflect the potential change in capital costs.
21 Mr. Beckley in his surrebuttal testimony, I
22 believe, testified that by using an across-the-board
23 increase, it could overshoot the other direction. And
24 if that were the case, then in 2025, extra-strength
25 surcharges under a new cost of service study might
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
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Page 53
1 indicate a slightly lower rate increase in that year.
2 So it's a balancing act.
3 Again, you know, we're projecting what rates
4 might be in the future. So I wouldn't suggest that
5 MSD's proposal is not fair and reasonable. You know,
6 reflecting cost of service is reasonable.
7 However, I would also say -- and as I
8 indicated in my testimony -- because of the large
9 increase to the extra-strength surcharge rates, it
10 would also be fair and reasonable to phase that in
11 over a short period of time in order to mitigate
12 potential impacts because you do want to avoid rate
13 shock in order to be fair and reasonable on customers.
14 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Okay. Thank you.
15 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any --
16 Yes?
17 COMMISSIONER CROYLE: I have a similar
18 question. The suggestion of decreasing the 70 million
19 projects. I would think that would cause an increase
20 of rates for the following rate cycle because they
21 still need to be paid for, and it's...
22 MS. LEMONE: That is true. So by smoothing
23 out the capital improvement program, one consideration
24 is that a large portion of that capital improvement
25 program is debt financed. So just because there is an
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Page 54
1 increase in spending in a particular year or two, that
2 doesn't correlate on a one-to-one basis with the
3 increase in rate. So that's one piece of it.
4 And two, to your point, by moving those
5 costs out to '25 and '26, we've heard from MSD that
6 that financial projection in those years is more
7 speculative, but nonetheless, we already are seeing a
8 potential for a rate that's twice or more than twice
9 as high as the rate in '24. Pushing more capital out
10 into that year will just further increase that.
11 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you,
12 Ms. Croyle.
13 Any other questions? Any other matters to
14 bring before the Rate Commission?
15 I have one item before we adjourn. I would
16 just like to thank Mr. Brockmann and the Public
17 Relations Committee. I think that in looking at the
18 work that has been done in public outreach during this
19 rate case as opposed to those in the past, it has
20 really been tremendous. There's been a great upgrade.
21 And thanks to you and all the members of the Public
22 Relations Committee.
23 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: All thanks to the
24 public relations group. They have just done an
25 outstanding job. Len has mentioned he and Brian had
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
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Page 55
1 an interview on KTVI two days ago, and we also have
2 one -- I don't know the date --
3 MR. HOELSCHER: Tuesday morning.
4 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: -- Tuesday morning
5 with McGraw Milhaven on the radio. They've also --
6 MR. HOELSCHER: A week from Tuesday. I'm
7 sorry.
8 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Week from Tuesday.
9 And the consultant of -- PR committee has sent out all
10 kinds of e-mails to all the municipalities getting
11 feedback. They've posted it in their newsletters and
12 things like that. So the word is out there. It's
13 just slow to roll over and reflect in public
14 attendance at public hearings and things like that.
15 But the message is certainly out there.
16 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you very much.
17 Yes, Mr. Neuschafer.
18 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Just in line with that,
19 there's one more public hearing that we probably
20 should reiterate again which I believe is also
21 streamed. So another opportunity to get the word out.
22 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: July 24 here at
23 MSD.
24 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: So that being the
25 case, we will now adjourn until 9:00 a.m. on July 24,
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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1 2019, for the final public hearing session that will
2 be in this room and will be live-streamed for the Rate
3 Commissioners.
4 Just a final reminder that this is your
5 final opportunity on the 24th to ask questions of
6 any of the parties including the District before we
7 begin our final deliberations.
8 That being said, we will stand adjourned
9 until July 24, 2019 at 9:00 a.m.
10 (Ending time of the Pre-Hearing Conference 10:15 a.m.)
11
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1
2 REPORTER CERTIFICATE
3 I, Julie Hundelt, a Registered Professional
4 Reporter, Certified Court Reporter, and Certified
5 Shorthand Reporter within and for the State of
6 Missouri, do hereby certify that this record was made
7 before me on July 12, 2019, at Metropolitan Saint
8 Louis Sewer District, 2350 Market St., Saint Louis, MO
9 63103, that said record was reported by myself,
10 translated and proofread using computer-aided
11 transcription; and the above transcript of proceedings
12 is a true and accurate transcript of my notes as taken
13 at the time of the examination of this witness.
14 I further certify that I am neither attorney
15 nor counsel for nor related nor employed by any of the
16 parties to the action in which this examination is
17 taken; further, that I am not a relative or employee of
18 any attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto
19 or financially interested in this action.
20
21
22
23 ____________________________________
24 Julie Hundelt, RPR, CCR, CSR
25
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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comply 6:7
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consider 10:15
22:3 30:18
consideration
27:24 38:16
50:18 53:23
considered
10:11 13:23
27:18 41:13
44:6
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42:14
consistency
43:13 44:4,9
consistent 5:25
6:4 29:14
30:11,14 39:11
42:20 47:4
consists 5:3
constitutional
5:25
constructed
11:4
construction
5:6 11:5,17
consult 34:23
consultant 7:2
11:9 12:20 13:8
14:12,22 25:3
34:24 36:8,10
39:10 40:2,15
40:24 41:4,21
42:7,14 44:23
44:24 45:1,3
55:9
consultants
24:25
consumer
22:24 27:9
consumers 3:4
5:7,13 21:13,18
24:1
contained 8:8
10:5
contaminants
20:9
continue 14:10
48:10 49:3
continued 3:2
continues 49:8
50:20
contractors 5:4
contrary 43:3
contributed
34:10,14,21
contribution
24:21
conversation
33:7
conversations
45:1
copy 14:24
correct 46:15
47:25 52:15
correctly 30:13
31:16
correlate 54:2
cost 5:19 25:5
25:14 41:25
47:5,6,14 48:7
48:12,21 50:9
51:13,19 52:17
52:25 53:6
cost-to-service
13:17
costs 25:6 47:8
48:19 52:20
54:5
Council 5:6,7
counsel 7:17
9:11,23 38:3,7
57:15,18
country 30:24
30:25
County 4:11 5:5
5:10
couple 48:10
course 44:5
court 3:21 40:10
43:1 44:7,8
57:4
covenant 6:5
cover 5:21 44:3
coverage 23:12
23:13,23,24
39:18 40:19
40:23,25
create 26:18
33:8 48:1
credit 23:18,25
26:20 27:23
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38:12 40:20
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32:16
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crux 18:7
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current 9:13
10:10 14:5 18:7
20:24 22:23
30:11 42:9
currently 5:3
20:10 31:6
cushion 26:25
customer 11:23
12:17 34:9
36:5 41:16
50:16
customers 13:18
14:7,8 17:15
24:3,13,19
25:13,21 26:2
26:4,5,12,21
26:21,22,23
27:6,10,14,21
30:15,16 31:3
34:10 46:22
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41:12,21 42:9
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data 12:19 16:1,3
16:5 24:22,23
24:25 25:2
30:3,5,19
32:9,25 33:5
33:10,11 36:11
36:20,22 37:5
37:11 41:18
50:23
date 36:24
41:19 55:2
dated 34:6
days 55:1
dealt 18:11
debt 23:12,13
23:22,23
24:6,9,14
38:24 39:4,17
40:16,19,23
40:24 46:1,2
53:25
debt-equity
24:5,6
deceitful 17:11
decision-mak ...
44:12
decisions 36:9
decreasing
53:18
decree 11:6,7
12:16 22:19
42:6 44:10
deeper 21:22
defensive 26:11
define 7:12
definitely 52:8
delay 13:10
delayed 13:12
delegates 4:19
deliberately
17:11
deliberations
56:7
delinquencies
5:21
demonstrated
24:14
depth 38:20
describe 7:19
described
46:21
describing 8:1
8:19
description 8:21
design 10:22
designed 26:13
desired 8:15
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
despite 17:1
27:16
detail 28:21,24
29:6 43:6
detailed 33:18
determine 14:18
develop 16:6
diameter 34:13
34:20
difference 14:1
29:5 37:4
47:18 48:16
50:23 51:3,12
51:23
different 32:2
36:2 37:7
38:8 48:3
49:21 50:6,8
51:17,22,22
52:18
difficult 32:16
52:7
diffuse 30:25
32:6
direct 19:21
direction 35:6
35:19 52:23
directly 31:3
45:4
discharge 19:23
discovery 7:3
9:5 29:13 34:4
discretion 11:8
11:10 13:9
discussed
38:18 41:14,19
44:6
discussion
10:20 33:18
44:15,20
discussions
17:11
dismisses 26:9
disposed 17:6
distance 32:24
distribute 9:13
district 1:2 2:11
4:7,9,15,16,18
4:24 5:15,19
6:6,7,12,16 7:1
7:9,11,17 8:25
9:10,13,18,24
9:25 10:4 11:18
11:20,22 12:21
13:10 14:19
25:10 39:5,19
39:19,25 40:9
40:13 42:22
56:6 57:8
District's 4:20
6:2,13 8:6
9:22 10:12
12:6 14:23
34:17 38:10
44:12
Districts 25:12
doctors 17:4
document 17:8
doing 49:19
50:19
dollar 28:9
dollars 36:20
51:8,9
drainage 6:3
dramatic 24:11
dramatically
22:25 24:4
25:19 48:3
driven 25:7
driving 40:4
44:12
drop 33:6
drugs 20:10
DSC 23:20
due 5:18 14:21
duty 22:4
E
E 2:1,1 3:1,1
e-mails 55:10
earlier 39:7 41:8
41:14
early 15:21 16:5
earned 23:17
23:20,23
Education 5:13
effluents 19:18
either 12:9
25:23
elaborate 15:6
election 4:11,12
element 9:9
elements 34:12
eliminate 50:10
eliminates 48:9
eliminating
32:7
elimination
32:3
emergencies
5:21
emerging 20:9
employed 57:15
57:18
employee 57:17
Energy 3:4 5:13
21:13,18
engaged 7:3
Engineers 5:12
enhances 6:1
ensure 4:19 7:14
22:12 23:8
27:4
ensures 26:22
ensuring 27:6
entire 11:15 17:18
entities 18:11,21
19:24
environment
5:11 19:4 20:18
environmental
4:25
EPA 11:3,7 18:5
18:12
equity 24:7,9,10
24:14 27:9
errors 14:21
escalation 40:7
40:13,16 51:15
Especially
27:18
establish 23:11
established
4:13 8:23
23:21 36:7
estimated
26:10
estimations
42:1
evaluate 52:7
evaluated 14:21
event 7:22
everybody
18:14 19:4
evidence 9:3
10:15,18 12:19
12:21 13:7
29:23 30:1
34:19 35:15
exactly 18:24
20:19 28:13
examination
57:13,16
excluding 43:21
Exhibit 14:25
34:3
exhibits 9:13
existing 10:24
11:20 20:23
46:1
expansive 25:9
expected 13:20
expeditious
7:14
expenses 13:21
experience
16:2
experiencing
20:1
expert 21:1 26:7
32:15
experts 12:6
13:22 31:24
49:14
explain 23:2
explaining 26:2
explanation
12:4 21:22
extends 6:17
extension 6:22
11:7
extent 8:5
extra 49:25
extra-strength
13:15,15 25:20
25:25 42:11,15
46:25 47:3,7
47:13 48:8,18
48:22 50:6,10
51:15,19 52:17
52:19,24 53:9
F
facilities 6:3
fact 18:23 30:14
38:17
factor 29:22
41:2
factors 7:20 8:8
12:5 31:7
32:20 34:20
38:12,17,23
40:7,13,16
facts 52:12
factual 37:11
fails 8:7
fair 4:19 6:9
11:25 12:25
13:23 22:5,9
22:12 23:10
24:2,15 25:12
25:21 26:3,14
27:5,14,20
31:10 39:23
41:17 49:10,18
52:16 53:5,10
53:13
fairly 48:17
fairness 27:9
falling 5:18
far 18:5 29:10,14
42:22 45:23
farther 32:23
45:19
favor 30:15
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
favorable 46:12
February 4:11
federal 6:8
42:20 43:13
44:4
feedback 55:11
feel 51:9
felt 32:17
file 35:7
filed 14:24 34:2
filing 38:21
final 29:7 42:18
43:7,13 56:1,4
56:5,7
Finally 25:19
finance 5:18
38:25 40:16
financed 53:25
financial 14:22
54:6
financially 57:19
find 33:21
36:22
finishing 47:10
Fire 28:6
first 19:22 22:14
30:3 34:4
35:17 38:22
42:12 43:14
fiscal 10:2,3,5
11:18 13:3,4,17
13:19,20 14:6
14:6 15:11,16,18
16:6 22:16,16
42:2,3
five 10:13,17
14:15 38:12
flexibility 42:8
46:7
flow 40:19,24
fluidized 10:22
28:14
flush 19:13 43:6
focus 42:22
43:5 45:20
focused 43:17
focusing 4:25
follow 11:3 31:12
36:18
follow-up 37:4
37:14
followed 25:22
following 16:16
53:20
forth 38:13
39:10,24
45:19
forthcoming
41:20
forward 9:20
19:6 21:15
27:25 38:5
found 11:25
32:16 40:24
42:24 44:8
four 10:19 45:12
Fourth 24:17
free 45:3
front 32:9
full 17:17 48:12
funding 24:5,11
further 5:22
10:19 19:8
37:21 38:16
44:17 52:9
54:10 57:14,17
future 10:6 46:3
46:4,10 53:4
FY 13:5
FY21 10:9 13:5,5
FY23 13:12
FY24 10:9 13:6
13:13
G
Garden 5:8
gathered 16:2
Gee 3:16
general 4:12
5:4 9:23
20:21 47:17
49:23
generated 30:6
geographical
25:9
geographically
30:25 32:6
32:22
geography
32:19
getting 16:24
20:17 55:10
give 16:12 19:19
29:4
given 7:6 25:9
go 17:4 18:12
20:25 21:3
49:1 50:9
51:19 52:16
goes 34:11
going 9:21 15:5
15:8,10 16:14
18:24 19:5,19
20:17,24 29:4
43:24,25
44:22 45:13
45:19 48:7
good 9:21 28:12
38:6
Goss 2:7 29:20
29:21 31:12
33:4,14,23,24
35:18 36:17,18
37:10,17,20
45:6,7 46:15
47:1,23 48:24
49:7 50:22
52:10 53:14
gradual 41:7
gradualism 41:3
great 48:16
54:20
greater 5:7
38:20 43:6
group 18:13
33:8 54:24
Growth 42:25
guess 30:24
35:22
guessing 34:22
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H
half 46:8
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happen 17:12
happening
45:13
happens 51:18
hate 16:10 28:5
hear 49:8
heard 20:11
24:7 25:1
27:17 30:23
43:15 49:3,14
54:5
hearing 8:24
9:1,12,17 15:4
21:9 55:19
56:1
hearings 55:14
heavily 30:15
held 7:4 8:24
help 18:2 22:12
34:25 48:4
helps 22:22,24
hereto 57:18
high 54:9
high-level 32:18
higher 14:4
23:21,24 25:5
26:23 41:5
47:11,21 48:22
historical 23:19
24:6
historically
23:12 39:5
hitter 43:12
Hoelscher 3:17
15:10,21 16:16
16:23 18:10
19:19 55:3,6
hold 22:7
Home 5:9
honestly 18:17
hospitals 19:24
household 21:2
Hundelt 3:22
57:3,24
hydraulic 16:3
I
I&I 12:3,12 15:6
24:18 25:5,6
25:11,14 29:22
36:21 37:6
41:15
idea 29:4 36:23
identification
28:23
identified 7:20
12:7 36:3
38:15,22
39:17 40:6
41:2 42:19
identify 7:12
identifying
38:10
ignored 22:19
II 34:8,12 36:3
immaterial
27:18
impact 11:13
12:13 23:23
27:19,19 29:17
46:4 50:24
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impacted 26:3
impacts 53:12
impair 6:6 11:19
implemented
13:25
important 15:15
15:24 23:19
33:15 44:5
importantly
22:17
impose 25:23
imposed 23:9
imposes 6:9
improvement
53:23,24
improvements
36:24,25
inaccurate 11:12
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
incinerate 17:2
17:3
incineration
11:17 13:10
20:16,20,23
incinerator
44:15
incinerators
10:22,24 11:4
11:11,13 16:22
19:17 20:22
21:4 28:15,25
include 7:25
9:2 15:10
44:14
included 44:13
52:2
including 4:24
11:11 19:24,24
34:13 56:6
Incorporated
5:10
incorporates
34:12
incorrect 46:16
52:13
increase 13:25
14:1,2,3,10
25:22,24 26:1
40:5 42:12
46:19 47:12,17
48:8,23 49:1,6
49:23 50:13
51:20 52:23
53:1,9,19 54:1
54:3,10
increased 47:7
increases 10:5
13:5,19,20
23:9 25:23
36:22 41:3,5,7
42:15 43:20
47:11,21 48:17
48:19
increasing
22:25 25:20
47:3 48:18
51:14
indebtedness
6:6
indexing 44:1
Indianapolis
30:7 31:21
32:11,22 33:2
indicate 17:2
31:7 33:11
36:5,11 43:7
53:1
indicated 39:4
39:8,14 41:9
42:23 43:17
53:8
indicates 32:1
34:8 36:1
indicating 17:24
22:21 25:11
individual 17:20
industrial 3:4
4:22 5:12
18:15 19:24
21:13,18 50:24
51:7
industries 20:4
20:5
industry 19:22
50:15
infiltration 11:21
24:18 31:1
inflow 11:22
24:18 31:1
information
10:4,7 11:14
12:2 17:1,7 18:1
29:9,17 35:5
input 26:12
27:9 39:15
52:6
instance 43:20
insurmountab ...
26:16
intend 38:19
43:4
intention 21:19
intentionally
19:11
interest 5:17
26:19 39:18
40:1,21 46:11
interested 4:24
8:4 57:19
interesting
31:24
intervenor 7:2
7:15 11:6 12:16
13:24 14:20
intervenor's
13:2
intervenors 7:18
9:10
interview 11:15
17:17,18,25
55:1
interviews 17:7
involved 19:5
involves 10:21
11:21 13:2,14
irrelevant 32:8
issuance 6:18
issue 6:14 7:23
8:1,22 9:8
10:15 14:13
17:22 19:6
20:2,14 29:7
37:19 38:22
39:16 40:6,12
40:18 41:14
42:10,18 43:13
44:15 45:8
46:18 51:18
issued 5:18
6:23
issues 4:25 5:1
5:1 7:13,23 8:2
8:19 18:8,8
20:10 21:22
21:25,25 22:2
26:16 36:21
38:16 43:4,8
item 28:7 54:15
J
J 2:19
Jack 2:7
jeopardizing
42:5
Jerry 2:4
job 54:25
joint 8:1
Joseph 31:17,24
32:2,4 33:6
judgment 27:1
Julie 3:22 57:3
57:24
July 1:9 6:14
8:18,25 9:12
9:14 15:17
55:22,25
56:9 57:7
jump 42:17
June 7:5 34:7
justify 26:1
justifying 49:13
K
Kansas 30:12
31:13 32:11,14
32:23,25 33:2
33:13
keep 46:13
keeps 20:12,13
key 26:8
kind 16:19 18:16
20:4
kinds 55:10
knew 18:17
know 9:25 17:12
18:18,20,25
20:20 21:1
28:12,22 31:9
32:20 33:9,17
33:17 36:19,19
37:3,11 39:3,19
42:3 46:11
49:20 51:5,5
51:8 52:1 53:3
53:5 55:2
KTVI 55:1
Kumar 25:4
26:7
L
labor 4:25 5:7
Ladue 5:11
Lamone 37:16
landfill 20:16
large 30:23
31:17 47:12
53:8,24
largely 25:6
larger 48:8
largest 30:23
Lashly 2:20
law 6:1 10:25
11:3,20 43:14
44:5,9
lawns 43:22
laws 6:8 42:20
layer 26:24,25
26:25
lead-off 43:12
League 5:5,8
led 47:12
legal 9:10 27:22
38:2,7 44:24
Leighton 3:7
Lemay 10:23
Lemone 3:18
45:17 46:24
47:2 48:6
49:5,21 51:11
52:15 53:22
Len 54:25
length 34:13,20
Leonard 2:3 4:5
lessen 13:4
level 10:8 23:10
41:10 45:18
lien 39:20 40:3
line 52:11 55:18
Lisa 2:18
list 9:13 45:2
listing 30:8
Litigation 1:17
3:23
little 11:10 13:8
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
38:8,20 42:8
52:7,18
live-streamed
56:2
Lloyd 2:4
LLP 3:7
local 19:4
Locust 2:21
long 15:19
long-term 10:6
longer 31:10
37:5
look 17:17,24
27:24 30:6
31:5 37:9
51:25 52:3,8
looked 17:20
looking 30:9
49:23 54:17
lot 15:13 19:12
20:15 30:4
Louis 1:18 2:22
3:10,25 4:7,10
4:10 5:5,6,7,9
5:12 7:9,11
9:24 11:13 18:8
25:10 30:22
32:3,4,6 57:8
57:8
low 46:11
lower 46:6,8
53:1
Lutheran 5:5
M
Mahanta 2:8
Mahfood 2:3
16:9,10,18 18:3
19:7,10 20:11
21:6 29:2,3,19
main 43:4
mains 34:13,14
34:20,21
maintain 23:18
27:23
maintenance
5:20 10:25 11:1
40:8,14,16,22
major 42:21
majority 36:1,5
Malone 2:19
38:1,4,6 43:11
43:16 44:16,18
manner 8:11
23:10 25:20
March 6:12,20
6:25 10:1
Marion 3:16
15:8
Mark 2:6
Market 57:8
material 20:11
20:12
matter 18:23
matters 9:15
44:20 54:13
McGraw 55:5
MDNR 18:13,25
mean 26:24
32:8 51:2
means 23:25
27:6,10 49:7
51:8
meant 51:5
measured 23:9
measurements
15:24
measuring
43:21
medical 17:3,3
17:6 19:11,14
medications
19:15
medicines 19:14
meet 8:7 11:18
27:22 40:25
meeting 1:1
6:20 18:5
38:15 49:17
meets 8:7 10:12
10:17 14:15
member 15:2
members 9:7
54:21
memory 46:16
46:23
mentioned 15:5
30:7 31:18,25
32:13 39:1
54:25
message 55:15
methodologies
13:23
methodology
42:23 43:19
44:7 47:2
48:2,13
Metro 5:9
Metropolitan
1:2 2:11 3:8 4:7
7:8,11 9:24
25:10 57:7
Mickey 2:6
MIEC 3:5 11:6
22:14 24:10
29:11 34:3
39:4,22,24
41:16 42:1 52:1
MIEC's 24:13
Milhaven 55:5
million 13:3,11
22:15 28:8,11
28:11,13,20
42:2 53:18
mind 46:7,14
minimal 14:2
minimum 23:13
23:14,21,22
minor 27:17
mischaracteri ...
47:25 51:4
mission 39:11
Missouri 3:4,25
5:5,7,10,12
21:13,18 42:24
42:25 44:7
57:6
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31:16
mitigate 50:16
53:11
mitigated 41:6
mix 24:5,6
MO 1:18 2:22
3:10 57:8
mode 26:12,12
model 52:4,6
modeled 29:11
modeling 14:22
15:14 24:13
26:10 29:10,12
modifications
22:11
modify 12:9
moments 41:19
money 24:1
29:11
monitor 20:6
21:2
months 43:22
morning 9:21
38:6 41:8,15
44:21 55:3,4
Mound 5:8
move 11:8,10
13:3,9 42:8
moved 42:4
moving 11:16
42:1 54:4
MSD 10:13 11:3
11:8,9 12:11
13:3,7,9,16,22
14:4,6,14 19:11
22:7 23:1,5,11
23:14,15,25
24:4,8,17 25:1
25:4,16,19,23
26:1,9,11,16,17
26:20 27:3,4
27:6,10,22
28:18 29:6,12
30:19 32:13
36:20 37:1
39:3,8 42:3,8
42:13 45:22
49:2 50:2,19
50:25 52:12
52:13 54:5
55:23
MSD's 10:23
11:15,16 12:6
16:13,22 22:4
22:12 23:19
24:3,5,22,25
25:6 26:19
29:21,25
30:10 31:8,13
31:24 38:13
43:24 44:7
45:8 47:24
50:9 53:5
MSD92 14:25
Municipal 5:5
municipalities
55:10
Myers 2:13 9:17
9:19,21,23 15:1
15:3,8 16:14
19:9 21:9,10
22:1 38:18
39:1 41:8 43:17
N
N 1:17 2:1 3:1
name 4:5,19
9:23
nature 25:9
30:19,22 46:1
necessary 5:17
23:8,25 24:11
25:24 38:24
necessitating
37:6
need 15:22 16:3
26:24 53:21
needed 24:1
29:15 47:11
needing 44:13
needs 25:1 27:3
27:10 47:17
50:1
negative 13:13
neighborhood
5:1
neither 22:8
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
24:2 25:21
57:14
Neuschafer 3:6
21:11,14,16,17
28:2,4,6,10
29:8,21 30:2
31:23 33:9,15
34:2,23 35:4
35:17,23 36:13
37:8,22,23
38:19 39:2,6
39:14 55:17,18
new 12:11,13
15:6,22 20:18
20:22 41:20
52:25
news 11:12
newsletters
55:11
Nicole 3:17
nine 33:7,10,17
36:2 38:16
nonprofit 5:2
North 3:9,24
5:10
note 33:16
notes 57:12
notice 5:14 6:12
6:15
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23:16
November 4:12
number 24:19
25:7 30:2,13
30:15,16 31:2
31:3 32:10
34:9,14,21
38:17
numbers 28:23
numerous 14:21
nurses 17:4
O
O 2:18
O&M 13:20 14:2
45:19 47:8,12
47:16,21 48:15
48:18 51:15
objections 9:5
objectively
14:21
obligation
22:19 26:17
26:20
obligations
27:23
obviously 17:5
44:9
occur 23:3
49:20
occurred 18:18
occurring 20:8
49:12
offices 8:25
official 14:23
oftentimes
50:17
okay 16:18,23
21:6 53:14
old 24:23,25
30:4
one-to-one
54:2
operation 4:24
5:19
operational 7:9
operations
40:8,14,15,22
opportunity 7:6
21:24 55:21
56:5
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30:17 31:17
36:12 42:17
43:25 49:2
50:25 54:19
optimistic 46:12
option 11:1
oral 8:12
order 50:15
53:11,13
orderly 7:14
organizations
4:18,22,23,25
5:2,2
out-year 49:19
outcome 39:15
40:4
outlier 33:6,6
outlined 10:13
14:15 21:19
outreach 54:18
outside 10:10
outstanding 6:5
40:21 54:25
overall 18:10
47:11 49:23
overflows 12:14
overly 39:25
overshoot
52:23
oversights 18:14
P
P 2:1,1,1 3:1,1,1
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33:25 34:1
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36:14,16
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37:13 52:11
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paper 23:6
papers 27:25
35:7
part 7:25 20:19
31:15
participant 8:11
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7:19 8:13,21
participants 7:5
7:22,24 8:5,7
8:24
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37:19 45:18
54:1
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49:18
parties 7:2 8:14
9:14 56:6
57:16,18
Paul 2:5
pay 5:17 26:24
PAYGO 24:7
paying 26:23
40:21 46:22
pen 23:6
people 19:13
20:12
percent 11:23
11:24 12:15,17
12:17 24:6,7,8
24:9,14,14,18
24:20 37:2
39:3,4,6 41:15
41:16,22
percentage
26:2 51:9
percentages
36:4
perform 15:5
27:4 37:18
performance
23:20
performed
29:12
performing
12:11
period 6:17,19
22:25 28:18
53:11
permit 7:17
20:21,24
40:19
permits 18:14
19:1,23 20:7
permitting 9:2
9:6,9 18:12
persuasive
33:22
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21:3
phase 25:24
50:14,17 53:10
phase-in 50:21
51:21
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phasing 42:14
48:9
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piece 50:4 54:3
pier 25:6 30:6
31:5,6
place 11:24 49:6
51:14
Plan 4:9,13,17
6:13 7:8,21 8:9
planning 10:6
plants 10:23
please 9:20
11:14 14:5
17:24 21:15
38:5
Plus 5:13
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21:23 34:22
35:7,9,11 37:8
41:23 50:3,20
54:4
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portion 53:24
position 7:19
8:13,21 10:24
11:16 21:22
22:20 23:1
29:22,25
31:13 45:9
47:24 48:6
positive 27:19
possible 23:4
41:9 49:13
posted 55:11
potential 46:3,7
48:15,20
52:20 53:12
54:8
potentially 41:4
PR 55:9
practices 39:12
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Pre-Hearing 1:8
4:3 56:10
predetermined
39:16
predictable
25:16
prehearing 7:12
7:16,25 8:17
8:19 9:22
21:20 43:5
preliminary 10:7
premised
26:25
preparation
9:12
prepared 7:13
7:24 8:20 9:3
9:8
preparing 38:9
present 3:14
9:22 26:13
46:18
presentation
8:13,15
presentations
17:15
presented 10:15
10:18 12:22
43:2
pressing 27:4
pretreat 20:6
pretreatment
20:4
prevent 22:24
previous 16:17
previously 9:3
15:13 47:18
primary 12:2
38:8
principal 5:18
40:21
prior 12:12 43:19
46:17
probably 18:18
55:19
procedural 7:10
8:16 9:15
proceed 9:16
proceeding 1:3
4:8 19:6 22:7
26:8
proceedings 4:1
7:14 14:18
42:22 57:11
process 15:11
15:20 18:12
19:23 20:20
processes 12:1
produce 25:15
producer 50:24
producers
19:25 51:7
Professional
57:3
professionali ...
37:24
program 16:21
22:4,24 24:5
26:22 27:8
53:23,25
programs 28:17
project 11:17
13:10 22:18
23:2 27:11
28:22
projected 10:5
13:5 47:8
projecting 53:3
projection
47:22 54:6
projects 11:8,10
13:9,12 22:15
22:22 28:8,17
38:25 41:25
42:4,8 44:13
53:19
proofread 57:10
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proportion
24:20 25:5
proposal 8:6
10:1,10,12 11:11
12:6,12,18 13:2
14:19,20 16:6
22:12 24:13,16
26:11 27:5,12
27:13 38:10,11
42:19 43:18
45:21 47:4
50:9 52:2
53:5
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5:24 6:15,23
8:7 9:9 10:12
13:14,16 22:8
27:17 28:18
42:1,13 45:10
47:2 52:5,16
proposes 11:6
12:16 25:19
proposing 10:2
22:14 29:5
39:3,20 47:15
49:2 51:1
52:13
protecting
26:19
protects 26:22
prove 12:22
provide 6:2 7:11
27:20 28:21
28:24 29:9,16
32:24 35:19
provided 10:4
12:5 13:7
14:20 17:1,7
52:1
provides 8:17
25:15
providing 23:3
33:10,11 40:22
40:22
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provisions 17:5
public 8:23 9:1
17:15 19:1 36:6
54:16,18,21,24
55:13,14,19
56:1
publish 19:1
purpose 9:1
purposes 10:6
pushed 32:15
Pushing 54:9
put 19:21 20:3
23:6 39:10,24
Q
quality 18:5,7
question 16:11
17:16 19:12,20
19:21 36:19
37:13 53:18
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52:11
questions 7:6
9:7 15:3 19:8
21:7 28:3,5
37:21 43:10
44:17 45:3
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4:6,13,19,21
5:3,14,15,17
5:22,23,24
6:11,11,13,15,17
6:18,21,22,23
6:25 7:2,5,10
7:18 8:4,6,23
9:11,18 10:1,5,11
10:15 11:9,10
12:1,6,12,20
13:5,8 14:5,12
14:14 15:2 16:6
21:8,12 22:2,6
22:9,12 23:8
25:3,22 26:6
26:11,13,15
27:2,3,5,8,12
27:21 28:3
29:17 34:4,24
36:21 37:2
38:2,2,7,10,11
39:10 40:2,5
40:15,24 41:3
41:4,6,7,12,21
41:21 42:7,9
42:13,19 43:10
43:18,19
44:23,24,25
45:3,10,11
46:7,17 47:4
47:20 53:1,12
53:20 54:3,8
54:9,14,19
56:2
rated 30:14
ratepayers 6:10
9:2 13:1 22:6
22:13 27:20
31:11 46:21
49:11
rates 4:15,16,16
10:2,9 14:4
22:24 23:8,17
26:3,23 29:5
29:7 39:18
40:2 41:9,11
42:17 44:1
45:8 46:6,11
47:3,5,7,16
48:14,22
49:10,24,25
50:7 51:13
52:2,5 53:3,9
53:20
rating 23:15
26:20 39:9
ratings 23:18
23:25
ratio 23:12,13,14
23:23,24 37:7
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
38:24 39:4,6
39:7,8,11,15
39:20,22
40:3 41:15,17
41:18,22
rationale 8:3,22
Ratzki 2:5
reach 28:19
read 19:12
real 27:19
really 29:13
42:4 45:9
54:20
reason 18:19
49:12
reasonable 6:9
11:25 12:25
13:24 22:5,9
22:13 23:10
24:2,15 25:13
25:21 26:4,15
27:5,14,20
31:10 34:18
39:12,24
40:17,23 41:18
42:1,24 47:24
49:10 50:14,14
52:16 53:5,6
53:10,13
reasonablene ...
49:18
recall 11:12 31:15
46:17
receipt 5:14
received 6:11
7:1
receiving 9:2
recognize
24:25 28:12
recognizes
24:10
recommend
5:15
recommenda ...
8:1,8 10:16
14:14 34:17
35:10 38:13
recommenda ...
4:14 22:10
36:8
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5:22 8:2 14:11
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18:24
record 7:16
14:17 21:23
30:8 34:16,19
35:3,5,11,14
35:20 36:20
37:3,9,12
38:14 50:22
51:24 52:12
57:6,9
recovered 13:18
recovery 48:12
refer 35:17
reference 34:5
referenced
36:2
referred 24:8
refine 26:9
refinements
27:11
reflect 35:15
52:20 55:13
reflecting 53:6
reflection 37:6
48:19
reflective 31:10
refuted 33:16
refuting 33:19
regard 46:24
regarding 4:15
9:7 39:18 40:1
40:8,14,20
Registered
57:3
Regrettably
22:8
regularly 20:6
regulated 36:6
regulations 6:8
regulatory
22:19 26:18
42:6 44:11
rehashing 21:19
reiterate 55:20
related 6:3 31:3
57:15
relating 6:5
relations 54:17
54:22,24
relative 57:17
relevant 32:2,14
33:21
remaining 33:16
remedy 22:10
remember 14:5
30:12 45:12
51:10
remind 26:3
reminder 56:4
removal 12:14
12:15
repairs 11:1
replace 11:4
replaced 11:2
report 6:14,18
6:22 7:25
8:19 10:16
11:12 12:13
14:14 16:25
18:18 38:9,20
43:5,7,7
reported 23:15
57:9
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40:10 57:2,4,4
57:5
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reports 21:20
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5:4
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2:11,16 3:4
request 6:21
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14:4
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require 23:5
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10:21
requirements
18:6,6 22:23
26:10,14,18
27:7 29:10,14
42:6 44:11
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requires 4:17
requiring 8:10
reserves 39:9
40:23
residential 4:23
resolution 8:2
resolve 7:12
respective 8:13
respond 29:24
29:25 45:16
response 16:13
16:22 17:14
33:22 34:2,4
responses 9:5
29:13 30:3
responsibility
38:8
responsibly
13:12
responsive
37:12
restrictions
20:3
result 14:4 24:2
27:13
resulted 46:20
revenue 22:22
25:16 26:10,14
27:7 29:10,14
46:2 47:17
50:1
review 4:14 11:14
14:17
reviewing 38:14
revolve 7:23
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right 15:15 16:1
17:21 20:24
28:23 32:9
37:9 46:12,23
49:7
rigor 41:11
role 22:6 27:4
38:7
roll 23:5 55:13
room 28:16
56:2
roughly 42:2
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rule 11:1
rules 7:9
S
S 2:1 3:1
Saint 57:7,8
sake 33:7
sanitary 12:14
saw 16:25
schedule 7:10
8:16 10:21
scheduled
22:15
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scope 10:10
scrutinize
45:22
scrutiny 10:8
45:18
Second 23:11
Section 10:14
sections 17:18
see 17:8,25
21:21 25:17
29:17 30:10
49:17 51:25
seeing 54:7
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
seeks 23:14
24:8
select 4:18
selected 31:24
senior 5:6
39:20 40:3
sense 51:8
sent 55:9
serve 4:7
serves 27:3
service 23:12,13
23:22,24
39:17 40:19
40:23,25
46:2 47:5,6,14
48:7,12,21
50:9 51:13,19
52:17,25 53:6
services 1:17
3:23 4:21 5:6
6:3 25:14
session 8:24
9:1 56:1
set 23:13,14
38:13
setting 27:21
50:7
settle 7:13,23
seven 32:12
sewer 1:2 2:11
4:7 6:2 7:9,11
9:24 12:14
20:4 21:3
25:10,12 45:11
57:8
shift 22:14 23:2
24:4,8,11 28:8
shifted 28:19
shifting 22:21
shock 41:6 51:6
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shocking 25:22
short 8:12,14
53:11
Shorthand 57:5
show 20:15,16
32:25 48:21
showed 17:19
showing 21:3
shows 23:20
significant 13:13
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50:13
significantly
23:22 46:6
similar 32:19
44:23 53:17
simply 22:21
sir 38:4
site 18:8
sitting 21:1
size 25:7 31:2
32:10,24
sleeves 23:6
slightly 53:1
slow 55:13
sludge 20:17
small 26:2
smaller 32:5,5
smoothing
53:22
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socioeconomic
5:1
solids 20:2
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45:14 47:21
sorry 16:16 55:7
sort 32:18 43:15
51:21
sounds 49:9
source 12:2
speaking 51:12
special 4:11
specific 20:5
28:8,22
specifically 13:9
49:24
speculative
41:10 45:9,14
45:20 46:13
49:15 50:3
54:7
spending 54:1
spent 36:20,23
spike 22:22
42:12 45:8,8
49:13,19 50:2
split 24:21,24
25:12,14
30:20 35:10
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18:21
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3:10,25 4:7,10
4:10 5:5,6,7,9
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25:10 30:22
31:17,24 32:2
32:3,4,4,6
33:6 57:8
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staff 7:1 13:10
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3:18
start 11:17 12:15
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42:3 46:5
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strength 49:25
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24:22 30:8
34:6,7,7,11
35:14,25 37:5
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44:25
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13:18 14:7,8
25:21
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29:4
submittal 27:25
submitted 9:4
9:25 14:22
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submitting 7:7
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14:8
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46:20 48:2,9
48:11 49:3,8
49:12 50:11,20
substantial
47:19
substantially
46:8 47:11
51:16
sufficient 23:17
40:25
suggest 19:22
37:7,15 53:4
suggested
39:22 41:17
suggesting
22:11,17 33:20
suggestion
53:18
suggests 13:24
summary 8:14
9:22 23:3
supplying 33:4
support 21:23
23:25 24:24
29:23 30:21
33:5 35:12
supported 26:6
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12:19
supports 30:20
supposed 45:13
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44:7
surcharge 13:15
13:16,18,19
14:7,9 20:2
42:15,17 46:19
46:22 47:3
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surcharges
25:20,25
42:11 46:25
47:8,13 48:4,5
48:8,18,22
49:2 50:6,10
51:15,19 52:18
52:25
sure 16:5 23:5
26:17 35:1,6
44:16 48:24
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
surely 25:17
surrebuttal
52:21
Susan 2:13 9:23
16:10
suspended
20:2
sweeps 18:19
sympathetic
45:14
system 12:8
20:5,24 21:3
25:8 30:4,7,12
30:22 31:2,14
31:16,17,20,21
31:22,25 32:7
32:11,11,24
33:1 34:8,13
34:20 36:24
36:25 50:1
systems 6:3
25:6 30:6,9
30:13,14,25
31:5,6,14 33:7
33:8,10,12,17
33:19 43:24
systemwide
48:23 49:23
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take 12:13 15:20
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29:11 47:24
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target 28:12
task 10:14 14:13
tax 4:16 5:17
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technology 18:5
tell 20:21 21:2
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ten 20:22 31:25
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tenths 23:21
testified 11:22
12:7 39:6 40:2
41:8 52:22
testify 9:2 41:21
testimony 7:1,7
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31:15,25 39:10
39:25 43:2,18
43:21 46:16
50:12 52:2,21
53:8
thank 14:25 15:1
16:8 19:7 21:9
21:10,14,16
27:24 28:1
29:1,19 33:14
33:23,24 34:1
36:14,15 37:23
37:24 44:19
53:14 54:11,16
55:16
thanks 19:7
54:21,23
therefor 8:3,22
thing 16:25
26:8
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19:16 20:6,8
22:5 46:12
49:22 55:12
55:14
think 15:15,24
16:4,25 17:13
17:14,23 18:20
23:4,7 28:11
28:15,17
29:25 30:2,6
30:18,20 31:6
31:21,23 32:15
33:15 34:24
35:4 37:1,11
43:1,20 45:24
46:5,23 48:6
49:21 53:19
54:17
thinking 19:13
46:9
third 24:4 40:6
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37:24
three 38:12
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threshold 37:2
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22:25 27:22
28:18 42:21,21
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48:16 50:3,20
53:11 56:10
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28:16
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30:23 39:22
timing 23:2
27:12 28:22
today 20:24
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37:3 38:18
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15:19 16:8 19:8
21:7,11,15 28:1
28:7 29:1,20
33:24 36:15
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38:5 43:9
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transcript 57:11
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57:11
transcripts 9:6
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57:10
treatment 10:23
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tremendous
54:20
trouble 16:24
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trying 51:6
Tuesday 55:3,4
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twice 54:8,8
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45:25
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units 11:2
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24:12
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usage 43:21,24
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volume 11:24
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
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49:24
volumes 41:23
voters 4:10 5:9
39:13
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18:20,20 22:11
22:21 47:9,10
49:11,12,18,22
50:2 53:3
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20:13
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21:21 27:25
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48:9 49:4
50:7,10 52:17
53:1 54:1,10
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16:7 22:16,16
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30:5 31:9
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12 1:9 57:7
14 6:20
15 31:9
16 6:24
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19 8:18
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1997 43:1
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20 7:5 14:6 31:9
2000 4:12
2005 12:3 35:13
37:5
2007 11:24,25
12:6
2011 11:25
2015 12:1
2018 34:7
2019 1:3,9 6:12
6:14,20,24,25
7:4,4,5 8:18
8:25 9:14 10:2
56:1,9 57:7
2020 47:10
2021 25:22
48:13
2023 11:5
2025 41:5,9
45:8 46:4
48:20 49:13
50:2 52:24
21 10:2 13:17
34:7 45:21
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60/40 30:1
35:10,12
63101 1:18 2:22
3:25
63102 3:10
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644-2191 1:18
MISSOURI SEWER DISTRICT 7/30/2019
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
7
7 4:12
7.270 10:14
70 13:3,11 22:15
24:14 28:8,11
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711 1:17 3:24
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9
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90A 34:3