HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 104 - Transcript of Public Hearing July 10, 2019Exhibit MSD 104
PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
1 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT
2 PUBLIC HEARING OF THE RATE COMMISSION
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
JULY 10, 2019
UMSL - 1 UNIVERSITY BOULEVARD
WELLNESS AND RECREATION CENTER
ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI
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18 Reported by Susan M. Moody
19 ALARIS REPORTING SERVICES
20 711 North 11th Street
21 St. Louis, Missouri 63101
22 (314) 644-2191
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www.aiaris.us
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone:1.800.280.3376
Fax: 314.644.1334
PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
1 APPEARANCES:
2 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
3 Mark Schoedel
4 Tom Ratzki
5 John Stein
6 Chan Mahante
7 Steve Mahfood
8 Lloyd Palans
9 Don Bresnan
10 Gerald Beckmann
11 Mickey Croyle
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13 ALSO PRESENT:
14 BRIAN HOELSCHER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MSD
15 PATTY OLSEN, MSD
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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1 PROCEEDINGS BEGAN AT 6:00 P.M.
2 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: We'll go ahead and
3 get started.
4 Good evening. I am Mark Schoedel, a
5 member of the Metropolitan Sewer District Rate
6 commission, and I'll be presiding over the
7 public hearing this evening.
8 With me tonight are the following MSD Rate
9 Commission members: Gerald Beckmann, Don
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Bresnan, Mickey Croyle, Chan Mahanta, Steve
Mahfood, Lloyd Palans, and Tom Ratzki and John
Stein.
The Charter Plan of the district was
amended at a General Election on November 7,
15 2000, and established the Rate Commission to
16 review and make recommendations to the district
17 regarding changes in wastewater rates,
18 stormwater rates, and tax rates proposed by the
19 district.
20 The Charter Plan requires the MSD Board of
21 Trustees to select organizations to insure a
22 fair representation of all users of the
23 district's services on the Rate Commission.
24 The Rate Commission represent organizations are
25 to represent commercial, industrial users,
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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residential users, and other organizations
interested in the operation of the district,
including organizations focusing on
environmental issues, labor issues,
socioeconomic issues, community neighborhood
6 organizations, and other nonprofit
7 organizations. The MSD Rate Commission
8 currently consists of 15 members from
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15 issue its report on the proposed rate change
16 notice to the Board of Trustees of the
17 district, unless the Board of Trustees, upon
18 application of the Rate Commission, extends the
19 period of time for the issuance of the Rate
20 Commission report for an additional 45 day
21 period.
22 At its meeting on March 14, 2019, the
23 Board of Trustees approved the Rate
24 Commission's request for an extension. The
25 Rate Commission's report on the rate change
organizations and institutions throughout
St. Louis City and County.
The Rate Commission received a rate change
notice from the district on March 4th, 2019.
Under the district's Charter Plan, the Rate
Commission must, on or before July 2nd, 2019,
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proposal must now be issued on or before August
16th, 2019.
The MSD Rate Commission has engaged legal
counsel and a rate consultant independent of
those used by the MSD staff. Under procedural
rules adopted by the Rate Commissions, as
amended, any person affected by these rate
change proposals has an opportunity to submit
an application to intervene in these
proceedings. An application to intervene has
been filed by the Missouri Industrial Energy
Consumers. This application has been granted.
13 Since March 4, 2019, the MSD Rate
14 Commission has received testimony from MSD
15 staff, rate consultant, and the intervenors
16 The parties have also engaged in discovery
17 requests.
18 A prehearing conference for the purpose of
19 identifying any issues raised by the rate
20 setting documents and prepared testimony
21 previously submitted will be conducted on the
22 record. All persons submitting testimony may
23 participate in the prehearing conference, and
24 each participant in the prehearing conference
25 shall submit a prehearing conference report
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describing the issues raised by the rate
setting documents and the prepared testimony,
together with a brief description of each
participant's position, if any, on each issue
and the rational thereof.
Rate payers who do not wish to intervene
are permitted to participate on these
on -the -record public hearings conducted in six
sessions that began on May 14th, 2019. The
Rate Commission published a public notice
regarding these proceedings in the St. Louis
Post Dispatch and in the St. Louis American.
13 These notices contained the time, date,
14 location of each of the conferences and
15 hearings.
16 The public hearing session tonight is for
17 the purpose of permitting the district to
18 present its wastewater change proposal and to
19 permit any rate payer an opportunity to
20 comment.
21 We will begin with the presentation by the
22 district, followed by a public comment period.
23 The district will be presenting a lot of
24 information, so we would ask that you hold your
25 questions until the comment period, as perhaps
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many of your initial questions may be answered
by the end of the presentation.
Those wishing to speak should sign in on
the sheet provided, which is over to my right,
and would be called on in the order of the
names listed thereon. Each rate payer should
7 identify themselves and any organizations
8 represented by such rate payer.
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Several housekeeping rules before we
10 begin. If you wish to present testimony,
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expect you may have questions or comments,
again, please sign in on the clipboard.
Speakers will be recognized in the order they
sign up. Each rate payer may have a maximum of
ten minutes to speak regarding the proposed
rate change. As the presiding officer, I can
limit or expand the time should I deem it
necessary. If you've not already done so,
please silent your cell phones, and that
includes the rate commissioners.
Exits from this room are located as you
can see; and once you exit, those doors to get
out of the building in the case of an emergency
are to the far end of that building there.
Restrooms are located out this door and down
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the hall to our right.
Are there any questions regarding the
procedures this evening?
Is the district ready to proceed?
MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, we are, Mr. Chairman
COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Please step
forward.
MR. HOELSCHER: Thank you.
My name's Brian Hoelscher. I'm the
Executive Director and CEO at MSD. I'm going
to give you a presentation on our proposed
wastewater rate proposal. I'm going to spend
time on one slide just giving you a little bit
of background on MSD, and then we'll dive into
the rate proposal.
As far as an overview, MSD is a government
17 utility. We are formed under provisions of the
18 state constitution. We have a voter approved
19 charter that is MSD's organic law, the basis
20 under which we operate. We have a board of
21 trustees that oversee myself and the secretary
22 treasurer; six individuals, three of them are
23 appointed by the County Executive and three of
24 them appointed by the Mayor of the City of
25 St. Louis.
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It's important to remember MSD is two
separate utilities. We are a wastewater
utility and we're a stormwater utility.
Tonight we're going to talk about proposed
wastewater rates.
What I would ask, if any of you have
questions -- because we want to answer all of
them -- about stormwater issues or billing or
something else about the system, we've got a
lot of MSD people here that will stay as late
as it takes to answer any other questions you
have that may be outside of what's presented
here. And if we can't answer the question,
we'll make sure we'll get back to you.
Service area of MSD is 520 square miles.
Currently we serve the City of St. Louis and
about 90 percent of St. Louis County. There's
1.3 million customers and 88 different
municipalities within that service area.
One of the things that really drives our
capital program with regard to the wastewater
system is the fact that we have the fourth
largest sewer system in the country -- very
close to Los Angeles, slightly smaller than
Chicago and New York. That's where a lot of
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the environmental issues that we're addressing
with this program, where they originated.
Talking about the wastewater rates. First
of all, these rates are to cover what is our
fiscal years 2021 through 2024. So the first
time you would pay a bill associated with this
7 rate proposal is in August of 2020. That's the
8 first bill.
9 The proposal -- first of all I'll talk a
10 little bit about the capital part of it.
11 There's over $1.5 billion worth of capital work
12 that's supposed to start within this next four
13 year period. That's over 300 different
14 projects. Some of the things that we'll
15 accomplish, we'll eliminate 50 wastewater sewer
16 overflows, from sewer pipes that are
17 discharging into our local creeks and streams
18 straplesses. Build 60 miles of new wastewater
19 sewers.
20 We're constantly inspecting the system to
21 make sure it's working properly. So we'll
22 inspect 64,000 manholes. A big part of the
23 program is the replacement of the incinerators
24 at our Bissell and Lemay treatment plant. We
25 incinerate our biosolids. These new
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incinerators will bring us up to the current
technology.
And then finally building a tunnel from
our current Fenton wastewater treatment plant
down to our lower Meramec treatment plant
that's located at Telegraph where the Meramec
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will help us eliminate a lot of the overflows
around the Fenton area.
The rates I'm going to show you are
assuming the use of $500 million more in
12 bonding authority. That's what the program is
13 that MSD is proposing. So what I've just
14 discussed is the capital program. That
15 represents the use of over 50 percent of the
16 revenues that we plan on collecting over the
17 next four years.
18 The balance of revenues, slightly under a
19 quarter of those, are for the debt service that
20 we have collected either on past bonds or else
21 that we would use on proposed bonds if this
22 goes through, and then a little over 25 percent
23 is for our normal regular operating activities
24 to operate and maintain the collection system,
25 as well as the treatment plants and pump
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stations.
There's some key issues that are
considered. Our charter has five major
categories that are supposed to be considered
on rate proposal. There's things about meeting
regulatory requirements, certain financial
conditions. Probably the biggest one has to do
with making sure the proposed rate is fair and
reasonable for all classes of rate payers.
Those five factors drive all three steps
of the Rate Commission process. They drive
12 what the staff did in putting together this
13 rate proposal. They'll drive what the Rate
14 Commission will do in reviewing MSD staff's
15 recommendations. They'll also drive our Board
16 of Trustees who will review the recommendations
17 that come from this Rate Commission.
18 Another one is bonding versus cash. While
19 MSD right now is proposing and believes the
20 best way to move forward is to have additional
21 bonding authority and use some borrowed money
22 to complete this program, because the bonding
23 can only go in place with a positive vote from
24 the population, we also give a scenario where
25 no bonding is used and all that's used are the
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Page 13
1 rates that are paid on a monthly basis by the
2 rate payers.
3 Affordability is always important. We're
4 always checking the proposal, making sure we
5 make it as affordable as we possibly can.
6 Affordability was a huge issue in the consent
7 decree or the legal action that we signed with
8 the Department of Justice and EPA that's
9 requiring us to do this work that we're doing
10 for the next couple decades, making sure,
11 again, that everything is equitable across all
12 classes of rate payers.
13 There's some underlying rate assumptions
14 that you would see in the rate proposal. This
15 is some of the items that MSD staff presents
16 and that the Rate Commission considers and
17 discusses. One, we assume a certain level of
18 customer growth throughout our service area.
19 We determine what's going to happen with the
20 water usage.
21 what will happen with inflation. This is
22 a four year proposal, so what will inflation
23 look like three or four years from now.
24 Again, consent decree compliance. Almost
25 100 percent of the capital work we're proposing
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Page 14
1 is to meet requirements of a consent decree
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that we signed with a federal judge based on
the lawsuit that came from the Department of
Justice, the EPA, and the Coalition For The
Environment.
And then finally on the affordability
side, we do have a customer assistance program
for low income and elderly individuals. If you
qualify for that program, those individuals get
charged one half the rate of everybody else.
That program has been in place for a while and
we'll continue it in the future.
Here's what we're proposing on rates.
Another version of this chart is in that one
page handout that was laid out to you. What
you see here are some costs per month. That is
17 for our typical customer. MSD's typical
18 customer uses 6 CCF, or 600 cubic feet of water
19 per month. And that's the way we bill.
20 That may not be what your monthly bill is
21 from MSD for wastewater. What every
22 individual's bill is depends on where you live_
23 If you live outside the City of St. Louis, MSD
24 takes water data from your water provider for
25 the three winter months, November, December -
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1 November, December and January, or December,
2 January and February. We take that data.
3 We assume that is representative of the
4 amount of potable water you would use that goes
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down the drain. We don't want to measure what
you use in the summer because we don't want to
count things like filling swimming pools or
8 watering the grass or washing the car. So we
9 use those winter rates and we use that to bill
10 that same rate for the full year.
11 If you live in the City of St. Louis, your
12 potable water usage is calculated the same way
13 that the City of St, Louis Water calculates
14 your water usage. They do it by what they call
15 attributes. The number of water faucets. The
16 number of bedrooms. The number of kitchens.
17 It's supposed to be representative of the
18 number of people who would normally be in a
19 house, and thus the amount of water they would
20 use.
21 So what does this look like? So the
22 numbers up here, again, are for a typical
23 customer. They may not be the same for you,
24 but the percentage increases will. So if you
25 took a look at your bill that you will receive
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1 in August 2019, that would be the starting
2 point. What we're proposing is in the next
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year, we'll look for a 1.9 percent increase in
that bill.
So in fiscal 2021, means the average
customer would be paying $56.63 per month. The
typical customer. For fiscal year 2022 an
increase of 3.8 percent in the rates. If you
are a typical MSD customer, your monthly charge
and your monthly bill will go from $56.63 a
month to $58.78 per month.
In fiscal '23 and '24, both of those we're
13 proposing 3.8 percent increases each one of
14 those years. The result would be that this
15 August, the typical customer -- and this is on
16 your sheet -- is paying $55.57 per month. Four
17 years later in fiscal 2024, the monthly cost
18 would go up to $63.63. That's on that top
19 line.
20 Under that -- that is the scenario
21 assuming the voters approve an additional
22 $500 million of bonding authority. If they
23 don't, MDS still has to do the program.
24 Without additional bonding authority, we have
25 to just use the rates coming from our rate
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1 payers on their monthly bills-
2 That's what the bottom line, or on that
3 sheet you have with the white column looks like
4 on that one page sheet. You'll notice the
5 first year is the same. There's still a 1.9
6 percent increase. We always develop our rate
7 proposals that way. That gives us flexibility
8 as to when we would actually vote for
9 additional bonding capacity.
10 But just like if you had a house, if you
11 pay cash it's more expensive up front. So if
12 we don't get the bonding authority, you can see
13 there's a 15.1 percent increase in fiscal 2022;
14 17.1 percent fiscal year 2023; and a
15 13.1 percent in fiscal 2024.
16 So without bonding, the typical MSD
17 customer, over four years, their average
18 monthly charge will go from $55.57 per month to
19 $86.29 per month. Again, which one of those
20 plans we use to move forward is going to be up
21 to the voters as to whether or not they want to
22 authorize additional bonding authority of MSD.
23 MSD is certainly constantly looking to be
24 as cost effective as we possibly can, not just
25 in the rates we propose, but also in the rates
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1 we're currently working under. One of the
2 biggest things we did, we had a -- I mentioned
3 a consent decree that required us to do certain
4 things to meet the Clean Water Act by 2034.
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Based on some changes in regulations, we
went back to the EPA, talked about
affordability issues. There was an additional
requirement accelerated on us that was outside
the consent decree. They agreed to extend our
consent decree five years. So instead of
ending in 2034, we have to get the same amount
of work done by 2039. You'll see that
benefited in these proposed increases. If we
hadn't gotten that, the proposed increases
would be much larger.
Operation Maintenance expense. For the
past four years, we're predicting we will be
coming $43 million under the expenditures we
anticipated in the last rate proposal for the
current four years. That's about 5 percent
under what we planned on spending.
Onthe capital program over the past four
years, we came in $110 million under budget, or
about seven percent under budget. Those two
are a little different. The operation and
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maintenance expenses, having to do -- the main
savings there came from technology, using
technology to decrease the cost for our
day-to-day activities in the collections
systems and the treatment plants. Those are
6 redoable. Those are sustainable. You can see
7 those savings and we've got them loaded in the
8 future rate proposal.
9 On the cost of the capital program, that
10 is a job, project -by --project engineer savings
11 that comes when we actually do the detailed
12 design of projects.
13 And then finally, financing cost. MSD,
14 based on its proposed expenditures for
15 financing came in $27 million under budget.
16 That has to do with actively managing the
17 portfolio and the debt we have. A lot of that
18 is taking very key times and refinancing our
19 existing debt to a lower interest rate to save
20 the rate payer's money.
21 So what happens to those dollars? Well, I
22 will tell you there are no bonuses. We don't
23 make a profit. We're a municipal organization.
24 We don't have stockholders, so we don't have
25 dividends. The only place that money goes is
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1 into this next rate cycle. So it's the first
2 place, it's the first pot of money we draw on
3 to pay for things in fiscal '21 through '24.
4 So the money is con-- any savings is constantly
5 turned back over and used in the next set of
6 years.
7 Timeline. I know I'm repeating some of
8 the things Mr. Chairman said, but to go through
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15 proposal for consideration by our Board of
16 Trustees,
17 Our Board of Trustees will then take that
18 recommendation from the Rate Commission and
19 they kind of go through the same process the
20 Rate Commission did. They will consider the
21 recommendations from the Rate Commission
22 against the same five factors that we've all
23 used to develop this. That will result in
24 MSD's Board of Trustees making a decision on
25 how to proceed, setting rates; and also if the
this: MSD's staff submitted our rate proposal
and testimony to the Rate Commission on
March 4th, 2019. The Rate Commission will
review our proposal, and by charter they are
scheduled to submit to our Board of Trustees
their recommendations of MSD staff's rate
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proposal goes through, setting a date and the
conditions for a vote for the public to find
out whether or not they would like MSD to use
additional bonding authority to pay for that
program for the next four years.
That vote, because, I mentioned earlier,
the first year we make it the same under either
8 scenario will be somewhere between spring 2020
9 and spring 2021. We'll want to find the right
10 place, make sure we can communicate to the
11 public what it is they're voting on, understand
12 the consequences of a yes vote, and understand
13 the consequences of a no vote.
14 The list of the rate commission public
15 hearings. You are currently at this one that's
16 the second from the bottom here at UMSL. There
17 is one more public hearing left two weeks from
18 today at nine a.m. -- Wednesday July 29th at
19 MSD's headquarters. That will also be a
20 streamed presentation as well when we give
21 that.
22 Before I turn it back over to the
23 chairman, I think what I'd like to repeat is,
24 again, we're here for a wastewater rate
25 proposal for the next four years. If you do
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Page 22
1 have a billing question, if have a stormwater
2 question, something not related to this, we
3 want to hear the questions. We want to get you
4 an answer. We've got a lot of district staff
5 here. We'll stay as long as it takes to answer
6 those questions.
7 Mr. Chairman?
8 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you, Mr.
9 Hoelscher.
10 Do we have anybody who has signed up?
11 MS. PATTY OLSEN: We have one person. Is
12 there anybody else who'd like to sign up to ask
13 a question?
14 Anybody else have a question to ask?
15 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Okay. Thank you.
16 So, again, we'll take these in the order
17 they were signed up. John Coffman first,
18 please.
19 MR. JOHN COFFMAN: Where would you like
20 me?
21 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Right there is
22 fine.
23 MR. JOHN COFFMAN: Okay. My name is John
24 Coffman. I'm a customer of MSD and live in
25 Webster Groves, but I'm here primarily as a
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representative of Consumer's Counsel of
Missouri. This is a consumer organization
that's been based here in St. Louis for --
since about 1971.
And throughout most of that time our
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7 residential utility customers. And we have a
8 particular focus on vulnerable customers, low
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income customers, and -'m here today to ask you
to keep those in mind.
I appreciate the fact that MSD said
affordability was foremost in their minds, and
I hope that it will be in yours. I know that
each of you represent a particular constituency
here on the board, but we'd like you to review
this rate to make sure it's not a dollar more
17 than it needs to be, and to recognize that many
18 of the customers in this community are not only
19 low income and struggling financially, but also
20 a great number of folks who might not even
21 qualify for a customer assistance program, you
22 know, just don't have another dollar to balance
23 the budget each month. So every dollar counts
24 and we hope that you do focus on that.
25 And also, as you consider the customer
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 24
1 assistance program -- and we support that and
2 we promote it, and we're glad to steer people
3 towards it -- recognize that not everyone who
4 qualifies for that necessarily gets it. If
5
6
there's any comparison for say lighting or
energy assistance, we know that probably only a
7 third of the people who qualify ever find out
8 about it and go through the administrative
9 process and get connected to people that need
10 it.
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19 watching every penny. I hope that you look at
20 this and -- as an opportunity to try to build
So, again, just we hope you keep that in
mind. We think that the rate increases that
have gone -- hit the bills over the last four
years have been a struggle; rate shock I think
for many people. And I think there are many
customers and members of the community that are
looking to MSD, to the Rate Commission and the
Board of Trustees to make sure that they're
21 more trust and to show some better stability
22 without quite as steep of rate increases in the
23 future.
24 With that, that's about all I have. I'd
25 be happy to answer any questions you might
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 25
1 have.
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COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Any of the rate
commissioners have any questions for
Mr. Coffman?
COMMISSIONER CROYLE: No, thank you.
MR. JOHN COFFMAN: Thank you. Thanks
again. Thanks for your service.
COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: I have one. I'm
curious who are the members of your group and
where do they come from?
MR. JOHN COFFMAN: Throughout the state.
12 We're a statewide consumer organization. We --
13 and have donors from around the -- well,
14 membership organizations. We get involved in
15 public service commission cases and involved in
16 matters that in fact say Ameren Missouri and
17 Spire and so forth, but also government -owned
18 agencies. So we're watching and we hope that
19 you keep the consumer foremost in mind.
20 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you.
21 Go ahead.
22 COMMISSIONER BRESNAN: The people you
23 represent, is there a, you know, an average
24 group of people that usually come to you and
25 say, hey, we can't pay this? Does it fluctuate
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Page 26
1 year to year?
2 MR. JOHN COFFMAN: Well, we receive a
3 variety of letters and comments from people
4 that don't have -- but we're not a social
5 service agency.
6 COMMISSIONER BRESNAN: Okay.
7 MR. JOHN COFFMAN: But we do work with,
8 you know, the various community action agencies
9 and with other antipopular groups [sic]. But,
10 yeah, our focus is -- focus is not necessarily
11 just the most needy customers. We're concerned
12 about residential rates generally as well.
13 COMMISSIONER BRESNAN: Sure. Thank you.
14 MR. JOHN COFFMAN: And the balance have to
15 make to -- but I have read the testimony that
16 you all have submitted to the Rate Commission
17 and I realize there are several adjustments
18 that are within your discretion to recommend,
19 so we hope that you consider those and shave as
20 much as you can off of it and show the public
21 that you're trying to tighten the belts and do
22 what's best for the public.
23 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you.
24 MR. JOHN COFFMAN: Thank you.
25 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Next person we
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 27
1
have is Virginia and forgive me. Virginia
2 N.
3
4
5
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Hi. Actually, I
was on my way to exercise and I saw this and I
was interested, so I -- you moved to the
6 exercise room. So we had a significant rate
7 increase before, And I think you said -- I'm
8 just trying to clarify a couple things. I
9 think you said you came in under budget, but
10 then a percent of -- percentage of this
11 increase was going to pay for the debt on the
12 old increase, on the old -- on the old bond; is
13 that right? Did you say that in your
14 presentation?
15 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Go ahead.
16 MR. HOELSCHER: Yeah. I think what I
17 meant to convey was there are two pots of money
18 that are going to pay for the increases. One
19 is any additional bonding authority we get to
20 borrow money, and the other is the rates that
21 we get.
22 So there is a third pot of money, and that
23 is any savings MSD has, revenues that it did
24 not spend in the first four years. So what I
25 was going over was: There was what we thought
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 28
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our expenses would be. The revenues are set up
to collect those. We collect those revenues,
make expenditures. If we're good at what we
do, we can come in under what we thought we
would spend, that money doesn't go towards
other things. It simply goes towards the next
rate cycle. So that's the first pot of money
we use to pay for the cost of the next four
years.
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Okay. And then the
10.6 rate goes in -- goes in effect regardless
of the vote? Because the vote might take place
13 after the rate goes into effect; is that right?
14 MR. HOELSCHER: Let me do this.
15 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Yes, please.
16 MR. HOELSCHER: The 10.6 you see there,
17 the last rate proposal four years ago, the last
18 increase under that rate proposal will be next
19 month in August, and it's 10.6 percent. That's
20 something that's already been put in place,
21 already gone through the hearing. You'll see
22 that increase between your July and August bill
23 this year. After that, you see increases for
24 the next four years after that.
25 So the 10.6 is a starting point that you
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Page 29
1 will see in August. It's under an old rate
2 proposal And that will be the starting point.
3 And then you see the next four years that we're
4 proposing starting with your bill that you will
5 get in August 2020.
6 MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: And I guess the
7 last one question would be, so Fenton -- part
8 of this is to reduce overflow in Fenton? Is
9 there any additional tax on Fenton to --
10 because it's specifically aided by this or does
11 this just benefit the Meramec in general?
12 MR. HOELSCHER: So this program is to
13 benefit all of the local rivers throughout our
14 service area.
15 MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Right,
16 MR. HOELSCHER: These overflows are
17 located throughout individual areas, local
18 streams. It's located -- we got outfalls
19 water that will reach the Missouri River.
20 Outfalls in the Mississippi River. Outfalls in
21 the Meramec -- they eventually get to the
22 Meramec River. River Des Peres. And then they
23 all obviously go to the Mississippi River and
24 leave the area.
25 So 'm mentioning that one just because
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 30
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4
5
it's a large item. There is an awful lot of
pollutants that enter. If -- you know, we've
had floods down there the last two years.
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Right.
MR. HOELSCHER: One of the cost-effective
6 ways to eliminate those is simply get rid of
7 that plant, take that flow down to the Meramec
8 plant, and that gives us additional capacity
9 during nonflood periods to make sure the
10 collection system doesn't overflow into the
11 local environment. It allows -- gives us that
12 capacity.
13 MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Okay. And last
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thing, so I understand you're complying with
the agreement, but just generally repair,
rehabilitate aging system, isn't that ordinary
business you're always budgeting for rather
than getting new bonds for or not?
MR. HOELSCHER: Correct. Repair and
20 rehabilitate the existing system doesn't come
21 out of that 1.6 billion I talked about. That's
22 part of our normal operating budget. It's
23 something that happens in this proposal. I had
24 mentioned we spend just over 25 percent of the
25 proposed revenues on operation and maintenance,
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 31
1 and that's to make sure the system stays in
2
place, what we have is in good shape.
3 But parameters for us to properly operate
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and maintain that system are also part of the
consent decree. So the consent decree not only
has improvements we have to meet under a
schedule to meet The Clean Water Act, it also
has parameters that the EPA monitors to make
sure we're properly maintaining the system that
we have so that it doesn't go into disrepair.
So part of this rate proposal will pay for
operation and maintenance as well.
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you.
Any questions, Rate Commissioners?
Next I have Alonzo Reed.
MR. ALONZO REED: Yeah. Thank you. You
answered -- you did a great job answering the
question. Did I hear you right saying if the
20 public didn't pass the bond, that you're still
21 going to do a rate increase?
22 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: That is correct.
23 Because of the consent decree, MSD is required
24 to do these upgrades. So they're either going
25 to do it by cash or they can do it by borrowing
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 32
1 the money. And so they have to go to the
2 voters, all of us here, to let us decide do we
3 want to have lower rates and take a longer time
4 to pay for this or to pay for it quicker, which
5 means higher rates as shown by the handout he
6 gave you.
7 MR. ALONZO REED: That's what I thought I
8 heard. Thank you. You did a great job.
9 MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: I'm sorry. I don't
10 know if I can ask another -- if other people
11 have other questions. So wasn't this on the
12 ballot in August or was there a bond issue on
13 the ballot in August? Or am I -- is this the
14 same thing?
15 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: No, this is not.
16 Anybody else want to handle that or can
17 do it?
18 MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: So there was no MSD
19 bond --
20 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: There was. So the
21 difference is April -- if you're referring to
22 the one that was this past April, that was
23 stormwater.
24 MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Oh.
25 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: This is
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 33
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wastewater.
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: So we could be
dealing with two increases.
COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: The one in April
did not pass.
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: I know.
COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: That increase did
not happen.
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: But I'm guessing it
will come back, right, or will rates increase
because there was no bond, like with the
increase without this bond?
MR. ALONZO REED: You're going to get a
rate increase. If you fail to pass this
vote -- voting for a rate increase, they are
going to increase your rate no matter what.
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: I understand. But
the bond issue for the -- you know what I'm
saying? The --
MR. RATZKI: On the stormwater side, the
proposal would be --
MR. ALONZO REED: That was the stormwater
23 and sewer.
24 MR. RATZKI: On the stormwater side, the
25 proposal made was to establish a capital fund
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 34
1
2
3
to do projects to improve the stormwater
system, prevent flooding and that type of
thing. The public did not vote for that, so
4 there's not a pot of money, as Brian puts it,
5 there to do capital projects in the stormwater
6 system right now at MSD.
7 Perhaps in the future they may come back
8 and ask for that, but right now there's no
9 money being spent on capital projects.
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17 MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Got it.
18 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: The stormwater
19 does not require this. The consent decree
20 does.
21 MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Got it.
22 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Wastewater is.
23 That's the difference. There are -- MSD
24 recognizes and there's several communities that
25 have flooding, erosion issues, that are
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: So even though
if this didn't pass there would be money spent,
but that didn't pass, there won't be money
spent?
MR. RATZKI: Right. Because of the
consent decree, the federal government is
requiring them to do these capital projects.
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 35
stormwater related. They don't have any money
2 to do the major capital projects needed to
3 repair those. So the public said that's okay,
4 we can put up with that. Is that clear?
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13 clear that I heard you right, but I understand.
14 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Yes. Two separate
15 issues: Stormwater, and this is wastewater.
16 MR. ALONZO REED: I totally understand.
17 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: So this one is
18 going to happen. There's going to be a rate
19 increase,
20 MR. ALONZO REED: That's right.
21
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Because it is
confusing.
MS. VIRGINIA NESMITH: Yeah. There's a
difference in --
(An off the record discussion was had with
the court reporter.)
MR. ALONZO REED: I just wanted to be
COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Depending on what
22 the voters vote for will depend on what the
23 size of that rate increase is.
24 MR. ALONZO REED: That's right.
25 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you, Alonzo.
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 36
2
3
Anybody else?
If not, do any of the rate commissioners
have any questions or even comments to clarify
4 anything that was said tonight?
5 A comment with respect to go ahead.
6 MR. DAVID RICHARDSON: Yeah. My name is
7 Dave Richardson. I'm a customer. And if I
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17 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Yes.
18 MR. DAVID RICHARDSON: Because I look at
19 it from a corporate world. I can go out and
20 issue additional bonds, but you're not a
21 corporate entity.
22 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: We are not allowed
23 to -- they are not allowed. Keep in mind, we
24 are separate; we are not part of MSD.
25 MR. DAVID RICHARDSON: Right.
understand what you're saying currently, if the
bond issue passes, we're going to have a rate
increase, but it will be lower. If we -- the
bond issue fails, then you might have a rate
increase, but it's going to be higher?
In your charter then, you are required to
have the public vote to indicate whether you
can use -- increase the bonds, is that the way
that works, for your organization?
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 37
1 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: We're a separate
2 group. They are not allowed to increase the
3 bonding capacity they have without a vote.
4 MR. DAVID RICHARDSON: Okay.
5 COMMISSIONER CROYLE: It's a part of the
6 Missouri Constitution and the laws that -- for
7
8
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11
rates and taxes, you have to do it by vote.
MR. DAVID RICHARDSON: Okay. And that's
required for all utilities in Missouri?
COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Public utilities.
COMMISSIONER STEIN: Public.
12 MR. DAVID RICHARDSON: Public utilities.
13 Okay. All right.
14 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Any other
15 questions or comments for the Rate Commission?
16 If not, the next public hearing, as has
17 been stated several times, is on July 24th,
18 2019, at 9 a.m. It will be held at MSD at 2350
19 Market Street. However, that particular
20 meeting will also be streamed so it can be
21 viewed on Facebook live.
22 So if you want to hear about this again or
23 have additional questions that come up, you
24 would have an opportunity at that point to
25 present those questions.
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 38
i Hearing nothing further, this public
2 hearing is adjourned.
3 (Whereupon, the Public Hearing was
4 adjourned at 66;42 p.m.)
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
Page 39
1 REPORTER CERTIFICATE
2 1, SUSAN M. MOODY, a Certified Court Reporter
within and for the State of Missouri, do hereby
3 certify that the MSD Rate Commission Public Hearing
held on July 10, 2019, commenced at the UMSL Campus,
4 1 University Boulevard, Wellness & Recreation
Center, St. Louis, Missouri 63121; that said hearing
was reported by myself, translated and proofread
using computer -aided transcription; and the above
6 transcript of proceedings is a true and accurate
transcript of my notes as taken at the time the
7 proceedings were had.
8 I further certify that _ am neither
attorney nor counsel for nor related nor employed by
9 any of the parties to the action in which this
hearing was taken; further, that I am not a relative
10 or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by
the parties hereto or financially interested in this
11 action.
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Dated this 29th day of July, 2019.
Susan M. Moody, CCR #430
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
A
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25:21 27:15 4:1,6,9,10 5:4 18:19 13:18 29:14,24
36:5 5:15,20,23 antipopular areas 29:17
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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www.alaris.us
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone:1.800.280.3376
Fax: 314.644.1334
PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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www.alaris.us
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone: 1.800.280.3376
Fax: 314.644.1334
PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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www.alaris.us
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone:1.800.280.3376
Fax: 314.644.1334
PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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www.alaris.us
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone: 1.800.280.3376
Fax: 314.644.1334
PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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www.alaris.us
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone:1.800.280.3376
Fax: 314.644.1334
PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
14:20 15:23 37:6,9 39:2,4
34:7 money 12:21
Mayor 8:24 19:20,25 20:2
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Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
rid 30:6
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PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
taken 39:6,9
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www.alaris.us
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone: 1.800.280.3376
Fax: 314.644.1334
PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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www.alaris.us
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone:1.800.280.3376
Fax: 314.644.1334
PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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www.alaris.us
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone: 1.800.280.3376
Fax: 314.644.1334
PUBLIC HEARING 7/10/2019
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www.alaris.us
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
Phone: 1.800.280.3376
Fax: 314.644.1334