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HomeMy Public PortalAbout02-10-2004PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES - FEBRUARY 10, 2004 PRESENT: ELIZABETH WEIR, BILL LOE, MARILYN FORTIN, MARY VERBICK, LENNY LEVER, DICK PICARD, JERRY BROST, SHARON JOHNSON AND RON JOHNSON. ALSO PRESENT, PLANNING AND ZONING ADMINISTRATOR LOREN KOHNEN, CITY ADMINISTRATOR CHAD ADAMS AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON 1. Chairperson Elizabeth Weir called the meeting to order at 7: p.m. Ms. Weir reminded everyone that the Planning Commission was a recommending body and that the City Council made final decisions. Ms. Weir added to the agenda to set up a committee, per city council direction, to discuss the Independence Beach area. 2. WILLIAM KROLL - 3839 COUNTY ROAD 116 - CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE MANUFACTURING OF ELECTRONIC SCALES FOR INDUSTRIAL USE - PUBLIC HEARING Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission and put up overheads of the area. He said that some of the lighting needed to be fixed to bring it into compliance but it should be no problem to do so. Loren pointed out where the city will work with Mr. Kroll to extend the trail easement along 116. William Kroll said he was here tonight to answer any questions the planning commission may have. He stated that his company was a 27 year old family business. He said they do the final assembly of industrial scales. (Loren passed around a booklet about the company). W. Kroll said he was willing to do whatever landscaping was required and wanted to work with the city. He asked about the trail and Loren said that Jim Dillman will work with him regarding the trail. He then asked Loren about #5 in his memo. He said they were buying the property to the north. L. Kohnen said you should still work with an attorney regarding an easement since it is a separate parcel. Mary Verbick said this is even a lighter use than the former occupant of the building. She said this is a good application. Marilyn Fortin said she agreed. Ron Johnson said we should add our lighting verbiage to the conditions. Lenny Leuer wanted the property lines better defined and wondered about a NURP pond. He wondered if it was the City's responsibility to be sure it was working. He also said that Monorail Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 1 used lots of electricity and wondered who owned the transformers. He said that some of the older transformers have PCB's in them. L. Kohnen said that there was a manhole in the back and Tom Kellogg and Jim had worked something out with Monorail. Loren said he would check on it. W. Kroll said a 1st phase environmental test was done, but he does not know if PCB's were checked. He said he would check on who owns the transformers and report back to Loren. L. Leuer questioned the landscaping that Loren suggested. He said if the new trees are only 20' from the building and in the future there is a building expansion, won't they be in the way? L. Kohnen said if they are much farther away they won't do much to break up the long wall. L. Leuer said it would be better if they were 35-40' away. L. Kohnen said he felt that 20' was better, both for the long wall and the fact they will grow faster being closer to the building. Elizabeth Weir asked Mr. Kroll if the size of the building was adequate for his business. W. Kroll said he had not thought of having to add on for at least 10 years. E. Weir said all the recommended trees are conical in shape and maybe adding some scotch pine would make it a good variety. L. Kohnen said that Australian pine grows faster. W. Kroll said if the trees are in the way for an addition in the future, he can always move them. Sharon Johnson asked how the work shifts were. W. Kroll said they have about a shift and a half from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY MARY VERBICK TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AT 3839 COUNTY ROAD 116 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS: 1. Provide landscaping along north facing wall which runs east/west with grouping of Black Hills spruce, pyramidal arborvitae and other varieties like Australian pine with a minimum of 6' height, 3-5 trees /shrubs in group, 60'-80' on center, with a maximum distance of 20' from the building wall. The landscaping to be approved by staff and the landscaping to be maintained. 2. No outside storage 3. Negotiations for trail along County Road 116 with city staff. 4. The water line running under the building the fire hydrant at the NW exterior corner of the building to be acknowledged to the City in writing that the line will be maintained by the Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 2 owner of the property and that the City has no responsibility for maintenance, replacement and/or damage to the property. 5. The private road agreement between this property and the property to the north be reviewed by the city attorney. 6. The fire sprinkler system inside the building be maintained to N.F.P.A. standards and be monitored 7. The lot's legal description to be updated and supplied to staff. 8. All exterior lighting must be designed and installed so that the globe is recessed and enclosed on all sides except the bottom and no light is cast directly on any other property or public right-of-way. 9. Evaluation of the NURP pond design and structure to be done to ensure that it is working properly and outcome sent to city staff. MOTION PASSED. 3. ALPINE FARMS - 2182 HOMESTEAD TRAIL - RE -ZONING FROM RR TO RR-2 AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR COMMERCIAL HORSE STABLE - PUBLIC HEARING Loren Kohnen went over his memo to the Planning Commission and put up overheads of the site. Elizabeth Weir congratulated Louise on her application packet. Louise Otten referred to Loren's memo: she asked about 'i' and said that grass buffers are already there. She said there is grass beyond the fence and also inside the fence. She also said that they do have smoke detectors and fire extinguishers. Louise said that fields A and D have not been grazed. There is an area where the hay has been taken off and/or grazed and the phosphorus is coming off. She also said that she had a letter from the MPCA commenting on and approving plans that were submitted. Louise said that Betsy Gilkerson and Tom from the U of M helped with the compost plan. She said that the manure management plan was designed and installed to work with run-off Betsy Gilkerson said that in the feed lot evaluation they calculate erosion, etc. For manure run- off. L. Otten asked about the 'emergency response plan' that was mentioned. She also said that they met with the MCWD a year ago and they were not interested in Alpine. Alpine was an existing facility and were not making any changes. Ron Johnson asked Loren about his re -zoning comments. L. Kohnen said to operate a commercial horse stable the RR-2 ordinance has guidelines to follow. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 3 Lenny Leuer asked that the overhead of the site be put back up and then asked where the bunkhouse was - it was pointed out. Then he wanted to know where the septic was for the bunkhouse. L. Otten said there are currently tanks that are pumped on a regular basis and they have had 2 potential septic sites spotted and Koch is doing the design. L. Leuer wanted to know if the 2 sites were protected and fenced and Louise said yes. Lenny said that in Alpine's plan the manure is removed every year and in Loren's memo he says twice a year and the agency's say once a year. L. Otten said she would like to have as much as possible fully composted before it goes to the nurseries. She said it used to take a couple of years to get it fully composted but now they do the windrows differently so it can get done in 1 year. The nurseries do not want it in the spring, but in August and October. Louise said field spreading is our secondary use. L. Kohnen said monitoring should be at least twice a year. L. Leuer said he wanted to clarify if it was to be once a year or twice a year. L. Otten wanted to know what monitoring was. L. Kohnen said it is soil samples in the pastures and downslope from where the manure is. Alpine would have to hire an environmental firm to do the monitoring and after each monitoring a report has to be sent to the City B. Gilkerson said you can send samples to the U for $10-$12. Mary Verbick asked Louise if she has been doing Option #3. L. Otten said they did the berm with a 1% slope, but the filtration pipes are not in yet. They will be done in the spring. Louise said that the manure storage pad is compacted clay. M. Verbick asked if wood shavings were a good thing. B. Gilkerson said the FLEval program has been designed for feed lots and shavings hold a lot more water so there will be less run-off (they think). It has been designed for 0 run-off. She then explained the design for manure storage. M. Verbick asked if the types of soils impacted the manure plan. B. Gilkerson said yes. The storage has been moved away from the wetlands. L. Otten said they will windrow the pile that is there now so it composts faster. It will be no higher than 5 1/2' and no wider than 10'. If there is too much to windrow they will get rid of it and start over. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 4 E. Weir said they will put a date in the conditions and also date for the FLEva1 program, maybe in 1 year. L. Leuer said he did not see a plan for disposing of dead animals. L. Otten said they call for them to be taken away. L. Leuer asked how many wells there were on the property. L. Otten said there is one and also 1 that has been capped (where the windmill is). L. Leuer asked about bathrooms in the arena and the septic for that area. L. Otten said there are 2 rest rooms and the septic site is to the north and there also is an alternate site. L. Kohnen said the sites are for the house and the arena. L. Leuer asked if any animal waste flowed into the septic system. L. Otten said the MPCA looked at their wash stall and said to watch for gullies. She said the other wash area is by the rocks and runs into the grass for a long way. L. Leuer asked what will happen to the bunkhouse pump tanks when the septic system is put in. L. Kohnen said they will need to be pumped clean, crushed and new tanks installed. L. Leuer asked if there was any proposed changes for signage and Louise said no. L. Kohnen said the current sign can remain as is and if they came in and wanted a new sign it would have to meet the ordinance. L. Leuer said the other CUP's have fencing mentioned - we should use the same wording as in the Awe's PUD. L. Kohnen said yes. Dick Picard complimented Louise on her proposal. He said it was very thorough and complete. He asked where all the Alpine property was - in the plan the pasture and cropland added up to 32 acres. There was discussion of the location of the property. D. Picard wanted to know when manure was last spread. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 5 L. Otten said she thought last September. It was not spread on fields A or B, but was spread on C,D&E. D. Picard wanted to know where the manure was sold and what % did they take. L. Otten said, Kelly & Kelley, Otten Brothers and Three Rivers Park District. She said they took everything they had. She said they can answer better next year and hoped that they would take 100% of the composed manure. D. Picard said his concern was the number of animals with the amount of acreage - He said according to the RR-2 ordinance there could be 150 horses at Alpine. L. Otten said 90 would be the maximum. D. Picard said his other concern is the amount of manure and phosphorus. B. Gilkerson said that the amount of phosphorus would be reduced by not spreading on fields that already have too much phosphorus. L. Otten said they would do whatever it takes. D. Picard said his other concern was the proximity to wetlands. Sharon Johnson said MPCA inspection last fall was due to a complaint. What was the complaint. Neither Louise nor Loren know what the complaint was. S. Johnson asked who was monitoring what. L. Kohnen said monitoring is done by a qualified person to test soils with the results being sent to the MPCA and the City with the City keeping track of the inspections. E. Weir wanted to know how soon the horses could go in a field after manure was spread. L. Otten said they only spread composed manure so the horses can go in the fields right away. There was some discussion about the dirt paddocks and the fencing. L. Otten asked Loren about the handicapped parking that was required and wondered if it was a state requirement. She said the less pavement that they have the safer it is. She said they would like not to pave the handicapped space. L. Kohnen said not only do you need it paved, but the loading area next to it and up to the building must be paved. It is both a state and federal requirement. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 6 L. Otten said that a horse can fall down on pavement. There was discussion of handicapped parking. E. Weir asked if the nurseries wanted all the composted manure, would you then stop spreading and Louise said yes. Bill Loe asked the scope of the current operation and would it be staying the same with this re- zoning and Louise said yes. MOVED BY JERRY BROST AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF RE -ZONING OF 2182 HOMESTEAD TRAIL FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO RURAL RESIDENTIAL 2. 1. Leuer asked Loren if we needed to obtain right-of-way for Homestead Trail. L. Kohnen said that is usually done when there is something being done with the land. MOTION PASSED. MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR 2182 HOMESTEAD TRAIL FOR A COMMERCIAL HORSE OPERATION WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS: 1. Maximum number of horses allowed - 90 2. Hardcover will meet the ordinance. 3. There is to be a primary residence on the property with a manager living in the residence. 4. New septic system for the bunk house to be installed with an alternate site designated by November 1, 2004. 5. Animals must be kept off both the primary and alternate septic sites. 6. Animal feed and bedding to be kept in an enclosed shed 7. All recommendations of theMPCA, NRCS and USDA for manure and pasture management to be complied with. 8. The manure is to be wind rowed no later than March 31, 2004 9. In lieu of manure removal every 6 months, the manure will be composted and removed at least once/year. If manure that is not spread onsite, used by nurseries or used in another environmentally responsible manner, it will be removed each year by December 31st 10. Soil testing for nutrients be done twice/year with the results reported to the City. If the 1st two tests are favorable, further testing be done at City staffs discretion. 11. It is recognized that the existing paddocks to the north do not have grass strips between them and the filter strip to the north is to be maintained. The 2 paddocks to the south of the bunkhouse are grass paddocks and the 2 that are not grass run into a shallow grass ditch. Runoff from all paddocks must filter thru grassy strips. 12. No parking on the septic sites or grassy areas. Overflow parking to be as shown on the site plan provided. 13. Special events to be limited to 16 days/year. The City is to be notified of all larger events, 2 weeks prior to the event. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 7 14. Outdoor speakers to be used only for the allowed 16 days/year for special events. 15. Outdoor facilities to be rented for the special events. 16. All outside lighting to be downcast, shoe box style with no light source cast off the property lines. 17. Fire marshal to review the site for compliance with fire codes. 18. Trash containers to be screened by July 1, 2004. 19. Hours of operation: 7 a.m. to 9 p.m./7 days/week 20. Number of employees not to exceed 16 21. Food for events to be catered 22. The Owners must provide and enforce written guidelines for controlling the customers of the facility to prevent trespassing on adjacent property without the permission of the owners thereof 23. Handicapped parking be provided per ADA requirements 24. Emergency response plan for accidental spillage (of manure) to be implemented 25. The Owners must maintain secure fencing of a commonly accepted form adequate and appropriate for confining horses on the property. The Applicant may be subject to City action if, within any 12-month period, horses escape from the property on more than three occasions. 26. No burial of animals allowed on site. 27. Current signage to remain. If any new signs are proposed, they must meet the City's sign ordinance. 28. For any new buildings, the exterior building materials must meet the City's ordinance for commercial buildings. 29. The tractor, manure spreader and other implements regularly used in stable operations may be kept outside. 30. The landscaping to be reviewed for any new buildings. MOTION PASSED. 4. PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AMENDMENTS TO THE CITY'S ZONING ORDINANCE TO AUTHORIZE INTERIM USE PERMITS Chad Adams said that Ron Batty's memo outlined this proposed amendment. Chad said this came about because of DMJ and there are a few other businesses in the Business Park district that it could be used for. Ron Johnson said that item f on page 2 mentions 720 foot radius and on page 3 it mentions 350 foot radius and wondered if they should be the same. Loren Kohnen said it is left to the zoning administrator on what the radius is for notifying residents of an application, but it is at least 350'. Elizabeth Weir said it is best left at the zoning administrator's discretion. L. Kohnen said that the City of Dayton adopted a similar ordinance He said it is the way to do it with existing businesses. Loren said that cities want to put an end to businesses that are in areas that are changing and are non -conforming. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 8 L. Kohnen said DMJ has grown beyond their CUP. Sharon Johnson asked how to deal with that. L. Kohnen said either make them go back to the use that was approved or go by an interim use permit. There was discussion of businesses in Medina that this could be used for. MOVED BY SHARON JOHNSON AND SECONDED BY BILL LOE TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF AN ORDINANCE ADDING SECTIONS 825.07, SUBD. 49.5; 832.04.1 AND 825.61 ET SEQ. TO THE CODE OF ORDINANCES REGARDING INTERIM USES MOTION PASSED. 5. CONCEPT PLAN REVIEW - RYAN COMPANIES FOR RETAIL DEVELOPMENT IN THE NW QUADRANT OF 101 & 55 Richard Koppy, Ryan Companies, gave an overview of changes in the current plan. He introduced the others with him tonight; Lee Koppy, Schoell and Madson and planner Mike Lamb. He said that from their last concept review they learned from the both the planning commission and city council that there would be no Super Target. This new plan has 20% less density and will accommodate more smaller retail shops with 5-7 on the site. He said they will do a better job with the smaller size of the development. The ponds and wetlands will be enhanced, there will be minimized truck traffic with less traffic without a grocery store. Mr. Koppy said the 1st plan showed a 175,000 square foot store and this new one is 125,000 square feet. He also said that the design will be coordinated with Uptown Hamel. Lee Koppy said what's in it for the City of Medina - Highway 55 improvements for one. He said they had met with MnDOT and the Raskobs and MnDOT supports a traffic signal where shown and also the closing of some of the entrances on Highway 55. He said the traffic will be improved, there will also be some upgrades at Clydesdale and Co. Rd. 116. He said the stormwater wetland mitigation has been moved to the west side of the wetland and there will be upstream storage for rate storage, the large pond will work for the entire area instead of a number of smaller ponds. There will also be less filling of the wetland. L. Koppy also said there will be an upgrade of the sewer and water in the area. Mike Lamb had some presentations showing colors, materials, etc for monuments and buildings and also lighting fixtures. R. Koppy had some examples of site design. He said Target was on board for wanting to be in Medina and they had lots of interest in the other sites. He said the square footage of the buildings in the total development has gone from 195,000 square feet to 165,000 square feet. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 9 Sharon Johnson wanted to know why we can't approach developers with what we would like to see, why can't we go after them. She also said that the residents and us need to understand the potential impacts of TIF, etc. Bill Loe said this is a concept, but they are asking for input from us. S. Johnson said she feels we are all spinning our wheels. R. Koppy said we feel we have made progress with issues that were brought up in our last concept review and we came back the 2nd time because frankly we made a lot of changes and wanted you to see it again. B. Loe said that he had the same comment that he had the 1st time. He said the fundamental issue is that this development does not comply with the spirit and intent of our comprehensive plan - this new plan is just smaller stores. He also said he had heard from residents that this isn't what they want for our city. Marilyn Fortin said she has heard the opposite from Uptown Hamel. She said that the Uptown Hamel people have been in favor of the proposal from the beginning. She said she has not heard any negative comments. B. Loe said that does not surprise him. Mary Verbick said we can't get around that it is a large store and a huge parking lot. Does it improve quality of life for Medina residents.. She felt that Cherry Hill and Gramercy should give their input. Ms. Verbick also said that this type of project doesn't fit into keeping Medina rural. Jerry Brost said he understands the citizens wanting a rural Medina. He said he is not for big development per say, but in the comprehensive plan we have decided that along Highway 55 is where it will happen. He did say he does not like big parking lots and he would put parking underground and where the parking is shown, make it a park area. He said what he does like about the plan is that it is coordinated and things flow. He said this large area could become a piece -meal development and Uptown Hamel is not happening in any quick way and if this is done and the infrastructure is completed here and a large area is coordinated, it could be good. He said he would say strongly that it's got to look good. S. Johnson said this is a high profile spot and we have to think carefully about what we put there. Dick Picard said that the Independence Beach people will not shop in a Target store. He said the City of Medina should not subsidize a Target store. He asked Mr. Koppy if he would do the project without TIF. R. Koppy said if there are other ways to get the work (infrastructure, etc.) done , then yes. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 10 Ron Johnson said he thought the 2nd proposal was a great improvement. He said our comprehensive plan does allow a Target on Highway 55 and it is o.k. with me as long as there is some class to it. He said he would like to see more little retail there - there is some shown, but would like to see more. Lenny Leuer said his apprehension is the volume of traffic that could be generated. He mentioned the traffic at 494/Rockford Road and at Ridgedale and the traffic that is generated at those sites. He said if we put up with that kind of traffic, this is the place for it. He said that the Medina ballroom generates traffic but at different time. He wondered how much parking there was at the ballroom. Bob Raskob said the ballroom had 750 parking spaces and the motel had 60+. R. Koppy said their parking is 5 spaces/1000' of leasable area and is estimated at 800-850. Elizabeth Weir wanted to how this plan looks different than the one that was in their packets. R. Koppy said the plan has changed density. L. Leuer said that the traffic would be at different times at the ballroom and at Target and the number of parking spaces is similar to the ballroom, so maybe this is not so bad. He also said it would be good to have some traffic control at 116/Clydesdale. He also wanted to know the difference in height between the Target store and the attached retail. L. Koppy said 10' difference. L. Leuer asked about the retaining walls, he said he sees 4 on the plan, 12',8',10' and 4'. The 12' wall faces Hwy 55 and I just don't like retaining walls. R. Koppy said they don't like them either. L. Koppy said that at the north property line the retaining wall is needed for the beitu. R. Koppy said that if MnDOT allows them to have more sloping, we can change the retaining wall. L. Leuer asked about the pond on Outlot D. He asked Loren about the easements on the east side. L. Kohnen said he mentioned that in the staff comments for the Ace access. E. Weir said the new plan is a considerable improvement. She said she likes the 2 smaller retail areas. She also said she had concerns about the retaining walls. R. Koppy said there is considerable more green area to the north by the pond. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 11 L. Koppy said they created more green space by the road and by the smaller shops. E. Weir said this does meet the underlying intent of our comprehensive plan. She wanted to know if more could be done with plantings along Hwy 55. R. Koppy said because the site is up high you really don't see the parking. B. Raskob said that this Target, coordinated development is good for the village and our peak traffic times at the ballroom would be different than Target. Les Raskob said nothing has been done here for 30+ years and do something now. 6. CONCEPT PLAN REVIEW - DARREL FARR DEVELOPMENT - 185 HAMEL ROAD - SENIOR HOUSING AND 7. CONCEPT PLAN REVIEW FOR 32-42 HAMEL ROAD - HOUSING AND RETAIL Ben Schmidt, Farr Development, said that Farr had been in business for 40 years and they do about 90% of their business in Minnesota, mostly residential, but some commercial. He said they recently had done some work in Maple Grove. Mr. Schmidt also said they had purchased the United Sprinkler building and have moved their corporate offices there. He passed out photos of their proposed projects. B. Schmidt said that the design for 185 Hamel Road compliments the design of St. Anne's Church. He said he thought they were o.k. with the height of the building according to the Uptown Hamel ordinance. He said they do exceed the density and he said they wanted to take advantage of the views of the park from the rear of the building and of St. Anne's from the front. Mr. Schmidt said this would be a senior building B. Schmidt said 32-42 Hamel Road would include 3,000 square feet of retail, like a coffee/sandwich shop. He said that retail needs people living in the area. Mr. Schmidt said Farr has an agreement with the railroad to purchase some of the property to the back of 32-42 which would allow access to the underground parking and also to get to the back of the building for fire protection. He said the Uptown Hamel ordinance talks about getting the buildings up to the front property line and they have left room for a plaza setting. He said 32-42 building materials would be similar to the antique shop Lenny Leuer said that at 185 Hamel Road, both the height and density are against the ordinance - there should be 7 units at the most. Ron Johnson said he agreed with Lenny. He said he is glad that Farr is interfacing with Residents, but is struggling with what the Uptown Hamel look is. He felt that these designs did not belong with what is nearby. Dick Picard asked if TIF was involved with 185 Hamel Road. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 12 Chad Adams said it would be part of the TIF district. D. Picard read from the comprehensive plan and said that this does not fit into the plan. Sharon Johnson said that 185 Hamel Road is a vast difference from our ordinance. She said it is hard to get a mix of shops and residential. Jerry Brost said he likes the designs, but the buildings are too tall. Mary Verbick said that 185 is a huge dramatic change from what is there now. She said we really are looking for ways to stimulate Uptown Hamel, but this density is pretty ambitious, although it helps to satisfy high density for the city. She said if we can seriously consider Target, she doesn't know why this would not work also. Marilyn Fortin said that 185, height and density is an issue, although the area is in need of development. She thought Farr had done a great job listening to our needs, but maybe some downsizing could be done. Bill Loe said that the buildings are attractive and the intended uses are o.k., but he agrees with Lenny about the height and density. Elizabeth Weir said she shares the concerns. She said she thinks we (the planning commission) should recommend to the council, before these proposals are looked at, that the Uptown Hamel ordinance maybe should be looked at to see if the ordinance is viable. She said we can't get what we want with a 2 story building and she said the developer couldn't do a classy development with 7 units. Bruce Workman said that we went with 2 story in the ordinance because of fire protection, but these buildings will be completely sprinkled. He said we did not think about economics when we drafted the ordinance Mr. Workman wanted to compliment Farr on their work. He said someone has to break the ice for the Uptown Hamel development . E. Weir said it is not feasible for variances, so what we do is look at the ordinance. B. Workman said he thought we put the ordinance together with flexibility in mind, especially the green space. He said density should probably be looked at, but that one of the biggest issues is adequate parking. B. Schmidt said that 32-42 has almost 2 parking spaces per unit and 185 has more than 1 per4 unit. He agreed that the design doesn't necessarily fit with what is here now, but someone has to start with the re -development. D. Picard asked if they would do the project without TIF. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 13 B. Schmidt said they would look at it if the stormwater issues and street issues can be taken care of. M. Verbick asked about the power lines - will they be underground. B. Schmidt said the city has talked about that. L. Leuer said he has the same concerns of height and density for 32-42 Hamel Road. B. Schmidt said with the additional land acquisition they will meet the density. L. Leuer said he felt the 4 stories in the back were o.k. R. Johnson said that the ordinance issues need to be worked on. He said the look is nice, he likes the architecture, but the height and density needs to be looked at. D. Picard said ditto for this, same as 185. J. Brost same issues as 185. He said he is not against the height, but it doesn't work with the ordinance. M. Verbick said she really likes that the developments are multi -generational and also likes that the two are not the same architecturally. M. Fortin said she is not opposed to 4 stories - there will be views of the golf course and Gramercy. She said if the ordinance can be changed, she likes everything about the two proposals. B. Loe said the issue is dealing with the ordinance. B. Workman wanted to know what the units would sell for. B. Schmidt said 185 would be $200-250,000 and 32-42 would be $250-350,000. M. Verbick asked if there would be any affordable units in 32-42. B. Schmidt said he would like to see that - maybe a few on the 1st floor. 8. PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERSHIP There was discussion of the possibility of reducing the number of planning commission members. Loren Kohnen said that Ron Batty recommended it be reduced to 7. Elizabeth Weir said it works well with 7. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 14 Chad Adams said it would be more efficient with 7 members. There was a straw poll taken of members: Bi11-7 Marilyn - good use of people if 9 are interested Mary - the benefit of 9 is that there is the possibility of more areas of the city being represented Jerry - Good job at 9, but if city council wants 7, no problem Sharon - Covered better with 9 Dick - 7 Ron - 7 Lenny - 7 9. SET UP SUB -COMMITTEE TO LOOK AT THE POSSIBILITY OF NEW ZONING DISTRICT FOR INDEPENDENCE BEACH AREA Elizabeth Weir said the City council asked the Planning commission to look at the Independence Beach area for a possible new zoning district. She said a sub -committee would be needed to look into this. The committee will be made up of: Dick Picard, Elizabeth Weir, Ron Johnson and Lenny Leuer. 10. ZONING ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT Loren Kohnen said that Loretto was concerned about development in the SW corner of County Road 19 and Highway 55. Bruce Workman said it is ahead of it's time here. L. Kohnen said that at the march meeting, Charles Cudd will be in with their proposed comprehensive plan amendment and their proposed development. Loren said that Farmers State Bank of Hamel will also be in to combine their lots and a site plan review for their new addition. Loren said he had gotten a number of calls concerning the letter that was sent to businesses concerning the lighting ordinance. Loren said he had received a call from a Foxberry resident who worked for Polaris who liked the Target proposal with grocery. Elizabeth Weir said the planning commissioner who is at the city council meeting is to report on that meeting at the next planning commission meeting. She said to be very conscientious about getting to your assigned meeting and if not to be sure and make arrangements for a replacement. Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 15 11. MINUTES OF JANUARY 13, 2004 There were a number of grammatical changes MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY MARY VERBICK TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS AMENDED. MOTION PASSED. 12. ADJOURNMENT MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO ADJOURN. MOTION PASSED. Meeting adjourned at 11:53 p.m. Planning and Zoning Assistant Date Planning Commission Minutes February 10, 2004 16