HomeMy Public PortalAbout02-11-1997PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES - FEBRUARY 11, 1997
PRESENT: BOB BRADLEY, SUSIE MACKAY, ANNE HEIDEMAN, FRANK
MIGNONE, CAROLYN SMITH, DECKER VELIE AND BRUCE
WORKMAN. ALSO PRESENT, CITY ENGINEER SHAWN GUSTAFSON
AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON.
ABSENT: PENNY ELSENPETER AND CHRIS CROSBY.
Vice -chairperson Anne Heideman called the meeting to order at 7:38 p.m.
1. MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 1997.
Anne Heideman made the following corrections: Page 2, 1st Buell paragraph, last
sentence, change to: tower is also in ....: Page 2, Bradley paragraph, change to: a
tower, that .... and Page 3, 1st paragraph, change to: if Nextel goes, Nextel will take
all...
MOVED BY CAROLYN SMITH AND SECONDED BY FRANK MIGNONE TO ACCEPT
THE MINUTES AS CORRECTED.
MOTION PASSED.
2. McDONALD'S RESTAURANTS, INC. - 822 HIGHWAY #55 - CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT FOR FAST FOOD RESTAURANT - PUBLIC HEARING - 7:40 P.M.
Sandie Larson went over Loren Kohnen's memo to the planning commission. She then
said that Bill Toles of ToI-O-Matic had called and could not be here tonight but wanted
his views noted. Mr. Toles said that he had no problem with McDonald's or anyone else
building there, but that they should build around what is there and not expect those that
are already there to have to change things. What he was concerned about was the
possibility of changing the alignment of Clydesdale Trail by his business. He said that
he bought his property with the understanding that Clydesdale was a new road and it
was where it was going to stay and the last time that the County talked about
realignment the then city council made it very clear that existing businesses would come
1st. He said he is getting very, very upset with his comfort zone being nicked away a
little at a time.
Shawn Gustafson put up overheads of the site and plans. He talked about accesses
and the possible need for a frontage road sometime in the future going west of Co. Rd.
116 on the north side of the McDonald's site. He then explained the northerly access
for McDonald's and also talked of the ponds adjacent to Highway 55. He stated that
two ponds were necessary because of the monitoring wells that were in place. Shawn
said that there were three fire hydrants in the area that would be sufficient to service
McDonald's, but because two of them were located on the east side of Co. Rd. 116 it
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may be necessary to provide an additional hydrant on the property. He mentioned that
the SAC charges were being determined by the Metropolitan Council Environmental
Services Division and that the watershed wants the plans to show the erosion control for
the ponds. He stated that the grading and storm sewer designs needed a little
modification and then talked more of the north access, future alignment of a frontage
road, easements needed for the road, etc.
Frank Mignone asked if the concept plan for the frontage road would throw off
McDonald's plans for their building and Shawn said he did not think so.
Bob Bradley said that basically the entrance would stay the same as shown.
S. Gustafson said that his engineering estimate for a security deposit to be provided by
McDonald's would be $168,998 and that the amount would be reduced as work is
completed. He said that their pavement section is acceptable, but that the city does
recommend fabric be used. He also mentioned the easements needed for drainage,
utilities, trails and the additional 10' that the county was requesting.
B. Bradley asked if the drainage and utility easements were standard and Shawn said
yes.
There was discussion of the need for a trail easement.
S. Gustafson said that all other comments from Hennepin County had been met in the
proposed plan.
Tom Drews, McDonald's project manager, passed out plans showing the proposed
building elevations and put up the overhead of the site. He mentioned that the total site
was approximately 1.8 acres, the size of the building and that their proposed number of
parking spaces exceeded the ordinance requirement. He said that they will work with
staff to make sure that their northern entrance works out and also said that they do
need 2 entrances on Co. Rd. 116 for circulation. He said that over 60% of their
business is drive-thru. He then pointed out that there was plenty of stacking room for
cars going through the drive-thru. He said there would be a menu to look at and then
the ordering would be done with a real person, not a speaker and would then be picked
up at the next window. He said that they have to allow for delivery trucks and the radius
they need on the site and that the trucks are usually at a location for about an hour
when they deliver. He said they did squeeze the site to accommodate the County and
City easements that were being requested and they have considered the future trail in
their site design. He said there would be no problem if a new hydrant was required and
that the design of the ponds were being dictated by the monitoring wells that were in
place.
Anne Heideman wanted to know why the northerly access was not perpendicular to
County Road 116.
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T. Drews said that based on meetings with city staff they tried to get some kind of
alignment.
S. Gustafson said the intersection is shown at about an 80 degree skew instead of 90
degree and that this is o.k.
F. Mignone asked about access to the future frontage road for other businesses like
Peggy's and Adam's Pest Control.
S. Gustafson said that he would hope that they would be served, but a way would have
to be found for them to get to the frontage road through the McDonald's property.
F. Mignone then asked about the rest of the property on the site that looked like it was
not being used for anything.
T. Drews said that would stay green space.
Bruce Workman asked why the plans did not show a sprinkler system.
T. Drews said that one is not required because of the size of the building. He also said
that there was a fire suppression system in the kitchen. He said there is no playground
planned for now but there is space for one in the front and still meet set -backs and
green space.
Carolyn Smith asked where the recycling space was in the building.
T. Drews said that there is usually a container by the trash containers and maybe one in
the kitchen.
C. Smith said that state law requires that all new buildings have a certain amount of
space set aside for a recycling area.
T. Drews said yes they have to provide recycling containers and that is by the trash
area.
C. Smith said she thought the space had to be inside.
T. Drews said they have built a lot in Minnesota and have always been in compliance.
Paul Lague, T.C. American at 3839 County Road 116, said that he is worried about the
northerly access issue.
A. Heideman told Mr. Lague that she would urge him to get together with Dave Mayer
and McDonald's and discuss the issue. Anne also mentioned that the paths on T.C.
American property are private paths.
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B. Bradley said that the one corner by the driveway does not have to be there and if that
is lopped off there will be nothing on T.C. American's property.
Gordon Jensen, attorney representing Countryside Cafe/Peggy Rasmussen, pointed
out on the site plan where the cafe was located in relation to McDonald's site. He
suggested that now is the time for the frontage road because the need is there to
service properties taking into consideration the access for the cafe and others. He said
the cafe has one Hwy. 55 access now and on a good weather day there are about 400
cars in and out that can go either way on Hwy. 55. He pointed out on the map the
current traffic patterns. He said a significant number use Co. Rd.116 for their access.
He said the proposal puts Peggy's accesses from three down to one and is this not
creating a problem? He then questioned whether a McDonald's was the best use for
the site and thought it a bit premature for approval.
F. Mignone asked Mr. Jensen if he felt this was a safety issue and Mr. Jensen said yes.
Peggy Rasmussen said she has not done a specific study but that 60-75% of her traffic
comes across from Co. Rd.116. She said this plan also eliminates the possibility of any
deliveries and/or garbage trucks on her property. She then pointed out on the map
where her building was. She said that this plan presents extreme difficulty to her
customers.
B. Bradley asked if then all this time Peggy's customers were driving over others
property.
A. Heideman asked if there was any kind of easement.
G. Jensen said there was no written easement. He said this is a legal issue, but their
allegation is that they have used it (entrance to Co. Rd.116) all this time and it is theirs
to use by adverse possession.
B. Bradley said that the planning commission cannot deal with the easement issue. He
then said she would also need an easement to get to a frontage road and Mr. Jensen
said yes.
A. Heideman said that all the planning commission could do is to suggest to the city
council that they consider moving ahead with the extension of Clydesdale Trail to the
west for a frontage road. She said the only thing that they can deal with is the
application before the commission and if there is no reason to not to approve it, we
recommend the approval to the city council.
B. Workman said that our job was to look ahead and see the concerns for other
properties. He said that the Highway 55 access will be closed sometime in the future
and we need to suggest to the city council to look ahead at the frontage road issue.
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S. Gustafson said that the state has a cooperative agreement program to pay 90% of
the construction cost.
B. Bradley said that the frontage road still does not solve Peggy's problem without an
easement.
P. Rasmussen said if I asked for anything I would ask that the future be looked at. She
said she has been in business there for 22 years and her business depends on traffic.
She said the frontage road issue has been talked about and if you can, make a
recommendation to move ahead with the frontage road.
A. Heideman said that she is comfortable with recommending to the city council that the
frontage road issue go forward.
C. Smith also said that if Peggy's Hwy. 55 access is closed, she would be compensated
for the access by the state.
A. Heideman acknowledged that we had received letters from both Peggy and Randy
Mayer concerning this application and wanted to say that in many years, this is the first
time she has ever heard anything nice be said by Randy.
Randy Mayer the evening wasn't over yet. He then said that he resolved his access to
Clydesdale Trail by purchasing the property behind him when it was for sale. He said
that the property in question has been for sale many times over the last number of
years. He said if Peggy's access is limited, too bad, but you have to grow with the
times. He said his Uncle's property (McDonald's site) has been shrunk by both the city
and county on the east side and now to the north for the frontage road, if that is built.
He said that this site plan should stand on its own and go forward.
The public hearing was closed at 8:47 p.m.
A. Heideman mentioned the requirements that the Elm Creek Watershed had brought
forward and Tom Drews said they had no objections to any of the requirements.
MOVED BY CAROLYN SMITH AND SECONDED BY SUSIE MACKAY TO
RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR McDONALD'S
CORPORATION AND DAVE MAYER FOR A McDONALD'S RESTAURANT AT 822
HIGHWAY 55 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
1. All requirements of the Elm Creek Watershed District be met.
2. All easements required to be dedicated: drainage and utility, 10' requested by
Hennepin County, 10' trail easement by City, drainage easement over pond area
and easement for future frontage road to the north.
3. Safety of NURP pond approved by staff.
4. Hamel Fire Department to approve hydrant locations and plans. (Bruce Workman
wanted it noted that he is concerned that no sprinkler system is required).
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5. Recycling requirements to be met.
6. Requirements in city engineer Shawn Gustafson's letter to be met with the
exception of #5 - the property does not require combining or subdividing.
7. No exterior storage allowed.
8. Staff to verify that all signs meet the ordinance.
9. Rooftop equipment to be screened.
10. Landscaping per plans submitted 2/11/97.
11. Parking areas to meet ordinance.
12. Hours open for business: 6:30 am to 10 pm Sundays -Thursdays and 6:30 am to
11 pm Fridays and Saturdays. Other hours as needed for maintenance.
13. Number of employees will be approximately 75 full and part time.
14. All exterior lighting shall be designed and installed so that the globe is recessed
and enclosed on all sides except the bottom and no light is cast directly on any
other property.
15. No outside bells or loudspeakers.
16. Letter of Credit (financial guarantee) be provided in the amount of $168,998 per
city engineers estimate for improvements.
MOTION CARRIED.
2. SPRING HILL GOLF CLUB - CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT - PUBLIC
HEARING - 9:15 P.M.
Sandie Larson went over Loren's memo to the Planning Commission stating that the
proposed golf club would be primarily in the City of Orono with all buildings being in
Orono and just a few of the holes in Medina. She also mentioned that Monday night the
Orono city council had tabled the EAW until a special meeting on February 20th
Shawn Gustafson put up an overhead of the site plan and said that 4 1/2 holes would be
in Medina. He said that he had a difficult time determining the wetlands for filling and/or
mitigation and that at least 2 areas in Medina were proposed for wetland filling.
Marshall Braman, Schoell and Madson, representing Spring Hill Golf Club, said that
there were two wetland impacts in Medina. He mentioned the dam structures of about 1
1/2 - 2' for water retention. He said that there were ditches now and that all wetlands
would be restored.
Susie Mackay asked if the current ditches were for drainage and Marshall said yes.
S. Gustafson said that he is concerned with the swale and the 12' fall shown between
the two wetlands near the north border of the property. Creating the swale will require
a very deep cut and a great possibility of erosion between the two wetlands. He then
asked if Spring Hill had an erosion control plan and Marshall said yes. Shawn then told
the Planning Commission that the WCA rules state that if two jurisdictions are involved
the LGU should be where most of the loss occurs. Because this is in Orono, the
Minnehaha Creek Watershed District will have final approval as Orono's LGU. Shawn
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then said that Medina has an interest in a trail along Tamarack Drive in the future and
there has been discussion with Orono on the size of the trail easement. The trail will
have to hug the right-of-way because of wetlands and the steep slope. It was felt that
even though 10' was the original size thought of for the trail easement, 5' would be
adequate. Whatever the size is determined to be, Medina's trail easement will match
Orono's. He said that Medina would also like the County to look at the future alignment
of County Road 6 near Tamarack and if the County would speculate to see if the tunnel
would conflict with any future safety improvements. This intersection is in Orono, but
Medina wants it known that the sight line at that intersection is a concern to Medina and
also that there is a need to look at right-of-way for future turn lanes at that intersection.
Fred Harris, plant ecologist for the DNR, was present to give information concerning the
`Big Woods' that is in the area being considered for this golf club. He said that he has
been working on the Big Woods area. There are three areas of the original Big Woods
that remain in this area: Medina 26, Wolsfeld Woods and Woodrill. The Medina 26
area is the one in the golf club area and consists of about 40 acres. He said that in the
1800's much of the Big Woods area was cleared for agriculture use and that less that
1 % of forest remains today. He said that Medina 26 was in relatively good condition
and any piece remaining is considered important. He said he was here just to inform us
of the Big Woods area and ask that it be considered.
B. Bradley asked if he was suggesting that golf courses were more detrimental than
housing.
F. Harris said one is just as detrimental as the other.
C. Smith asked if the area was protected and Fred said no legal protection.
B. Bradley said that unless someone gives the land to the state, there is no protection.
C. Smith said that she has seen where people building have tried to save trees and they
have either tried to save the wrong tree or did something else wrong and maybe
foresters should work with developers so that things are done correctly. She wanted to
know if the golf course had taken any of this into consideration.
Andy Hunter president of Spring Hill Golf Club, said that everyone involved agrees with
everything that has been said. He said that this was an environmentally friendly ardent
project and that the Big Woods area is one of their biggest concerns. He said that
during actual construction, the design might change somewhat if a tree or a stand of
trees is in the way that needs saving. He said they are not only going to transplant 500
trees, they will be planting 500 new trees. He said over 1/2 of the Big Woods area would
be saved. He said not every tree can be saved but they feel that this is a better
proposal than any other development would be.
B. Workman said that the area will change even with this course. Golf courses use
fertilizer, other chemicals, etc.
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A. Hunter said this is an Audubon Signature Course and every tree that can be saved
will be.
Dick Krueger, Orono resident who's property abuts the course, said that he urged
Medina to step back and look at this proposal. He reiterated Fred Harris's comments on
the importance of the Big Woods area and said that the entire ecology will change with
the golf course.
S. Mackay said that she empathizes with what is being said but that it was not in their
power to do what they want. She said the time to deal with this would have been before
the golf course purchased the property.
A. Heideman said that we can only deal with the proposal before us and unless a group
is before us with a proposal, we can only deal with the one that is. She suggested that
Mr. Krueger comes to the city council meeting when they will hear this proposal.
C. Smith said that the legislature protects wetlands and maybe it is appropriate to talk
with your legislature about protecting these wooded areas. She said it is sad to keep
losing things that cannot be replaced.
There was continued discussion on destroying woods.
Decker Velie said that with all due respect, if Mr. Krueger felt this strongly about this,
maybe he should have done something sooner.
A. Heideman said we can only suggest that the golf club take all this into consideration.
A. Hunter thanked staff for the time that had been given to this proposal. He stated that
this was a non-profit enterprise golf club and not a country club. Meals would be limited
largely to lunch and the membership would also be limited. He said they were hoping to
start this summer with opening summer of 1999. He stated again that the majority of
this proposal was in Orono with about 50 acres out of 210 being in Medina. He said
they were supportive of the trail system.
The public hearing was closed at 10:15 p.m.
MOVED BY BOB BRADLEY AND SECONDED BY FRANK MIGNONE TO
RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR SPRING HILL
GOLF CLUB'S MEDINA PORTION WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
1. Trail easement on the east side of Tamarack to be consistent with trail portion in
Orono.
2. Retaining wall on the 9th tee to be accepted by staff.
3. Drainage and erosion control plans to be accepted by staff.
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4. Full consideration be given to preserving the Big Woods area as much as
possible.
5. No restroom facilities in Medina.
6. Assurance from Orono that the EAW is accepted.
7. Watershed approval.
8. Medina be kept informed on the Wetland conservation application.
9. If the report from the watershed district, EAW or anything else in Orono should in
anyway change the project, Medina has the right to re-evaluate their decision.
10. If non-profit status ever changes, this is to come back to the planning
commission for further review.
11. It is noted that Medina resident, Mike Hofkin's concerns have been met by the
golf club.
MOTION PASSED WITH 6 AYES AND 1 NAY. BRUCE WORKMAN DID NOT FEEL
THIS WAS THE BEST USE FOR THE PROPERTY.
Carolyn Smith said that we should know where else there are special areas like the Big
Woods in Medina so the planning commission knows and these areas can be taken into
consideration.
Fred Harris said that he would furnish maps to the city outlining area of concern.
MOVED BY BRUCE WORKMAN AND SECONDED BY DECKER VELIE TO
ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 10:35 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
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