HomeMy Public PortalAbout19710722SCMeeting1
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Savannah Beach, Georgia
July 22, 1971
A special meeting of Council was held at 7:00 P.M. this
evening for the purpose of reconsidering the petition of
Mr. A. P. Simon for a shallow well on his Ramada Inn property
for the purpose of servicing the lawn and shrubbery sprinkler
system.
In the absence of Mayor M. J. Counihan, the meeting was
presided over by Mayor Pro tem, Jack Daniels. The following
Councilmen were in attendance: Edward Jung, Robert Cary,
Jimmy Stettler and George Schwarz. Councilman °Ed Towns was
absent.
Also in attendance were Mr. A. P. Simon, Mr. Fred Oliveros
and Mr. Joseph Hutton.
Acting Mayor, Jack Daniels opened the meeting and explained
that this was a special called meeting to determine whether
or not Mr. Simon would be granted permission to drill a well
on the Ramada Inn Property which Mr. Simon stated would be a
shallow well system to be used solely and exclusively fo the
sprinkler system for watering the grass and shrubbery.
Councilman Daniels stated further that he had requested Mr.
Joe Hutton, the City's consulting engineer, to attend the
meeting so that he might enlighten us as to what constitutes a
shallow well which is allowed at the present time and what
would be considered a deep well which is not allowed by the City
at the present time. Councilman Daniels then requested Mr.
Hutton to give his views and opinion on shallow wells and deep
wells.
Mr. Hutton stated that shallow or deep was not the proper
way to calssify wells. He said that the real difference between
wells is one they call sand or gravel wall wells and limerock
wells. He said that limerock wells or limestone acquifer start
at the bottom and above that we have 100 to 150 feet of sat-
urated sand which is fed by the rainfall in this area. This is
the area from which we get sand wells, he stated. Mr. Hutton
also stated that there was a layer of dense clay above the lime -
rock. He said this makes it possible for us to survive because
it prevents contamination by salt water. He said that limerock
wells are actually holes drilled into the limerock acquifer
with steel casing through the overlying sands to seal off the
water above the aquifer. Mr. Hutton stated further that it is
not correct to use the shallow or deep classification and that
it depended upon what you want from a well.
Councilman Stettler asked Mr. Hutton how far you would have
to drill to reach the Ocala Acquifer. Mr. Hutton stated this
depended on how much water was needed and that here at the beach
you could get 1000 feet per minute by going 220 feet.
Councilman Daniels stated that he had conferred with our
consulting engineers this morning and they told him that at
Tybee, the acquifer statrts at 142 feet and from that point to
160 feet is brown limestone; the next 323 feet is soft grey
limestone and their conclusion was that at 237 feet, the depth
Mr. Simon had planned to go to was well within the acquifer
and would be considered a limerock well.
Mr. Simon stated that he had been advised by the U. S.
Government National Geological Survey that the Ocala Acquifer
was 240 to 250 feet below the surface and that if the infor-
mation he received from them was correct, at 237 feet he would
not be in the City's water supply. Mr. Hutton stated that at
a depth of 237 feet he would definitely be getting his water
from the same place that the City's water comes from and that
it would be a limerock well.
Mr. Simon then stated that the Government had given him
some misinformation. Mr. Hutton said that he felt that it
was just a difference in the interpretation. Mr. Simons then
asked Mr. Hutton if his well at 237 feet, used only for sprinkler
system would have any affect on Savannah Beach's water supply.
Mr. Hutton stated that 70 gallons per minute was not very much
and probably would not have any affect on the water supply of
Savannah Beach. Mr. Hutton added that it could have an affect
if the well was not built properly, that is, cased all the way
down and sealed.
Councilman Daniels stated that although the consumption of
water from this well probably would not affect our water supply,
there should be a concern by Council for the fact that once one
of these wells is allowed there may be any number of requests
for the same kind of well at the same depth.
Mr. Hutton stated that the problem as he sees it is a
financial one on the part of the city. He stated that to drill
a well giving 70 gallons per minute would probably cost about
$5,000; and to build a gravel wall well would cost about $8,000.
But, he said, the problem is that as part of the City's water
production you provide as part of your sales, fire protection,
etc. He stated also that whether Mr. Simon gets 70 gallons
per minute from his well or buys it from the City it is still
70 gallons coming from the same place but, he said, if the city
is going to furnish fire protection it should be paid for.
He said it was simply a matter of economics.
Mr. Daniels reminded Council that we have some three or
four wells existing at the present time and the owners of these
wells have already been instructed to cap them and use the City
water. He asked if it was fair and logical to ask these people
to cap their wells and then allow one across the street.
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Mr. Simon stated that Ramada Inn was a commercial enterprise
and as such, should be entitled to some consideration on the
part of the City.
Mr. Hutton stated that, for the information of Council,
a 250 ft. well in Savannah was equal to 135 foot well here at
Tybee. Mr. Simon told Mr. Hutton that he was informed by the
government agency that one would have to drill 250 feet or
more to get into the City's water supply. Mr. Hutton replied
that this was not so and that they were wrong in this
statement.
Mr.,. Daniels stated that when Mr. Simons was given
permission to drill his well, it was for a shallow well 20 or
30 feet and that he was already down about 137 feet. Mr.
Daniels told Council to feel free to question either Mr. Simon
or Mr. Hutton. He stated also that this matter should be
settled tonight in order that Mr. Simons wbuld know what to
do since this equipment was sitting there costing money. He
further stated that he would just like to point out that this
was discussed yesterday and the floor was open for any
suggestions and that he understood from Mr. Simons that he got
a telephone call from a councilman yesterday, Mr. Schwarz, who
called Mr. Simon and stated that he was all for it. Mr.
Daniels told Mr. Schwarz that he wished that he had stated
that yesterday. Mr. Schwarz said that he did not say that
completely and that he had some questions to ask.
Mr. Daniels again stated that he had called this meeting
tonight to get the benefit of Mr. Hutton's information across
to all members of Council so that they may be able to ask
questions and to make a decision. He stated that if any of
the Councilmen wanted the drilling to continue, they should
feel free to make a motion to this affect.
Councilman Cary reminded Mr. Simon that, after the City
had called a halt to the drilling and Mr. Simon called him,
that he told Mr. Simons that he ,could go to 100 feet and not
over that. He stated further that he would still go along
with 100 feet.
Mr. Hutton stated that if Mr. Simons had drilled a gravel
wall well, he would get water at his present depth but that a
gravel wall well would cost him more money.
Councilman Daniels asked Mr. Simons about his contract
with the well people. He asked Mr. Simons if he got a firm
price from this company not knowing how deep he would have
to go to get 70 gallons per minute. Mr. Hutton stated that
every well man knows that if you go down 200 feet at Tybee
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that you get into the limestone. He also stated that he felt
we could not afford to use our portable water for irrigation
because in the first place it is too precious but this was the
cheapest way to get water - to go down to the limestone. He
stated further that it cost more to get irrigation water than
it did to get portable water and that if you go down far
enough to get water, you are in the Ocala.
Councilman Schwarz stated that he did call Mr. Simons
as Councilman Daniels had said. He said that he was trying
to find out what the issue was and if he was told why he was
stopped. He said that Mr. Simons replied that he did not -
know. He stated further that in talking to Mr. Tommy Reed
yesterday afternoon and the quotations that Mr. Tony made,
he could not see how this well could affect our water supply.
And, he stated further that if this well only affects our
finances, he was all for it. Also, that Mr. Simons had
already spent a lot of money preparing for this because
Council assumed - and this assuming can make a fool out of a
lot of people and apparently had made a fool out of seven of
them. Mainly because they did not know the difference between
a shallow well and a deep well. He stated further that is why
he called Mr. Simon this afternoon - trying to get some
information, and, if it only affects our finances as both
Mr. Hutton and Tommy Reed have said, then he would be all for
it. Councilman Schwarz stated further that he knew that
there was a fear that at some future date that maybe the
swimming pool would be tied in on it and maybe the water supply.
He mentioned putting seals on the line to prevent this.
Mr. Simons stated that the City had a plumbing inspector
who could check this. Mr. Schwarz reiterated that if this
well did not affect the city's water supply -.only cutting the
water department out of a little bit of money, with the money
Mr. Simons has already spent and the big taxpayer that he is
going to become, he, frankly, was in favor of it.
Mr. Oliveros, speaking on behalf of the stock holders of
Ramada Inn, stated that he did not think any of the stock
holders would allow any of the water that came out of that
well to go into the pool, especially since children would be
going into the pool and swallowing some of the water.
Mr. Hutton stated again that Mr. Simons would be getting
his water from the same place the City does, that this well of
Mr. Simons should be cased and cemented in. He stated further
that water from this well would cost Mr. Simons about three
cents per 1,000 gallons; whereas, buying from the city would
cost fifty cents per 1,000 gallons and that it was purely a
matter of finances.
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Councilman Stettler stated that he would like to go on
record as saying that he thought, personally, that due to the
fact that Mr. Simons spent so much money on this project, he
should be allowed to continue and get 70 gallons per minute
for'his sprinkler system. He stated further that his reasoning
was the same as Councilman. Schwarz and that he felt Council
had made a mistake by not checking into it further. He also
stated that his reasoning was the same as Councilman Schwarz
and that he felt that Council had made a mistake by not
checking into it further. He also stated that Mr. Simons had
entered into contracts and spent a lot of money. He said also
that he felt the City was somewhat indebted to Mr. Simon.
Councilman Daniels stated that one consideration we may
have for the future is, will we have the same feeling of
indebtedness to future requests for wells.
Councilman Jung asked Mr. Simons how deep the well had
been drilled up to the time he was stopped. Mr. Simons
replied that he was now at 137 feet and planned to go 100
feet more - not over 100 feet. Mr. Jung also said that Mr.
Cary had given Mr. Simons permission to 100 feet and requested
advice from Mr. Hutton as to whether or not Mr. Simons could get
water at that depth. Mr. Hutton answered that Mr. Simons would
have to drill an eighteen inch, put a six inch casing in and
fill the outside with gravel.
Councilman Schwarz made a motion that, under the
circumstances and the information we had received from Mr.
Hutton, we grant Mr. Simons a permit to drill the well as he
proposed. The motion-was seconded by Councilman Stettler.
Under discussion, Councilman Cary stated that he would like
Mr. Simons, if he didn't mind, to put in writing that this
water would be used only for watering the lawn, he might go
along with it. Mr. Daniels quoted part of a letter from
Mr. Simons wherein he stated that:
"The shallow well will be tied in solely to the
lawn sprinkler system with only sprinkler heads
for water distribution attached thereto. There
will be no other form of outlets attached to
this shallow well system and the water will be
used solely and exclusively for watering the
grass and shrubbery. Again, permit me to
re- emphasize - no faucets or any other form
of water distribution outlet will be attached
to this shallow well used solely for the
sprinkling of the lawn."
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Councilman Daniels. then put the question and the motion
was unanimously carried.
Mr.. Simon then thanked the members of Council. There
being no further business, the meeting was adjourned to the
next regular or special called meeting.
CLERK OF COUNCIL
MAYOR
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