HomeMy Public PortalAbout2019_tcsubcommitteemeetingmin0812Council Subcommittee Meeting with NAACP August 12, 2019
Lower Level Conference Rooms I & II, 25 West Market Street, 9:20 a.m.
Council Subcommittee Members Present: Vice Mayor Marty Martinez, Neil
Steinberg.
Council Members Present: Ron Campbell.
NAACP Members Present: President Michelle Thomas, Vice President Amanda
Tandy, Legal Redress Chair Buta Biberaj.
Staff Present: Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Town Attorney Barbara Notar, and
Clerk of Council Eileen Boeing.
AGENDA
1. Items for Discussion
a. NAACP Issues with the Leesburg Town Council
Members of the NAACP present wished to discuss their disappointment with
the Town Council regarding the events that happened surrounding the Juneteenth
Proclamation presented at the June 11, 2019, Council Meeting. At the meeting the
wrong proclamation was presented with editorial comments on the signature line
made by Council Member Dunn. The NAACP members expressed a desire to have
a good relationship with the Town Council and noted their disappointment that the
subcommittee meeting was not with the full Council.
The NAACP expressed concern regarding max aggression comments made by
Council Member Dunn in the past. They noted he had many other opportunities to
express his opinions, abstain or have his name removed on the proclamation rather
than defacing their proclamation. They noted other issues with Council Member
Thiel that would be addressed at another time.
Questions were asked to the Council Members and staff regarding the current
process for proclamations, how this situation happened and what was being done to
ensure that these types of issues don't happen again in the future. Mr. Steinberg
explained the normal process in which proclamations are signed by Council and that
often times other than signing their names, not much more attention is paid to other
member signature lines. He added that often times Mr. Dunn is the last to sign so
they would not necessarily have had a chance to see his signature. Council Member
Campbell notified staff that he believed Mr. Dunn added editorial comments to this
proclamation, the LGBTQ Pride Month proclamation and a previous proclamation
for Gun Violence Awareness. Council Member Steinberg noted that once the issue
was identified, corrections were made and an apology was given at the meeting. He
stated that he and members of staff believed it was a mistake that the incorrect
proclamation was presented versus the corrected version.
ITEMS
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Council Subcommittee Meeting with NAACP August 12, 2019
Mr. Dentler and Council Member Steinberg explained the steps being
proposed to ensure that this issue does not happen again in the future. Mr. Dentler
provided a staff report for Council discussion and potential action at the August 13,
2019, Council Meeting. It outlined a more formal proclamation process most notably
that all proclamations must have a Council sponsor, that they be voted on at the
meeting preceding the presentation, if a Council member does not want to support a
proclamation they can either not sign or ask for their name to be removed. Mr.
Steinberg added that Council will consider as part of the action to not allow anyone
else to sign for a Council Member and that only signatures are allowed on the
signature line. Mr. Dentler added that by having the proclamations presented at the
meeting before that it will eliminate any last minute shuffling of proclamations at the
meetings and will ensure that all of the Council established procedures for
proclamations are followed. This item is on the agenda for approval at the August 13,
2019, Council Meeting.
Ms. Biberaj asked what would happen if someone was not present at the
meeting before to vote. Council Member Steinberg said proclamations will move
forward with a majority vote and that the absent Council Member can advise whether
they want to not sign or have their signature line removed entirely. Ms. Biberaj asked
if this will be incorporated into the policy. Mr. Steinberg said that if approved on
Tuesday, that it would be included into the policy. Mr. Dentler said the draft
resolution in the agenda item provided spells out the proposed process. Mr. Steinberg
added that if Council approves the proposed process, proclamations will be handed
out at 6:30 before Council gets into the business portion of the meeting. Ms. Biberaj
asked if there was a review process for the proclamation that Council Member Thiel
signed before it was handed out. Mr. Dentler explained the current process where
proclamations are handed out at the Monday Work Session and Council Members
sign them.
Ms. Tandy asked if with the new process there was the potential for something
like this to happen again. Council Member Steinberg and Mr. Dentler believed that
the new process would add quality checks and prevent this from happening again.
Ms. Tandy asked if there were any disciplinary action proposed for violating the
process. Ms. Notar said there will not be any discussion of disciplinary actions as the
Rules of Procedures do not include disciplinary actions rather it is a guide to Council
on how to run its meetings. Pastor Thomas asked where the disciplinary rules could
be found. Ms. Notar explained that the State Code gives legislative authority to
discipline Council Members and lists types of censure; however, disciplining Council
for comments made can be challenging because of the free speech issue. Pastor
Thomas asked if a Council Member makes inflammatory remarks to citizens if they
are putting the Town of Leesburg at risk for damages. She added that Council
Member Dunn said hurtful things and pointed them at the African American
community and then did not have the decency to meet with NAACP. Pastor Thomas
asked if Council is concerned that others may sue if a Council Member causes unrest
in the community. Ms. Notar said that if Council is concerned that the NAACP
intends to file suit against the Town then she could be asked by Council to advise
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them. Ms. Notar said that having this meeting was the start of the dialogue to resolve
the issue. Pastor Thomas noted that you cannot start a dialogue with four people
who agree with the NAACP's position. They had hoped that Council Member Dunn
and Council Member Thiel would be in attendance so that they could discuss their
actions. Council Member Steinberg said this was discussed at Council and due to the
potential that this could be a hostile meeting that it was decided to have two Council
representatives that were in agreement with the NAACP's position meet first for a
helpful start. Pastor Thomas asked Mr. Steinberg why he thought the meeting would
be hostile if they are all professionals. Mr. Steinberg rebutted that there were
statements made by the NAACP that it intended to initiate a recall process against the
Mayor. He added that given those statements and a general unrest between the two
parties, that Council thought it would be best to start small. Mr. Steinberg said that if
the intent is to meet with the full Council that they could work towards that. He
added that when the request came in, Council was uncertain of the exact topic of the
meeting and now that they know they can move forward. Mr. Steinberg said he
cannot speak to the actions of Council Member Dunn nor Council Member Thiel.
Ms. Biberaj noted that on the national level there is a lot of rhetoric and
innuendo with no checks and balances. She said that they do not want Leesburg to be
a part of this. She asked what Council intends to do to ensure it won't happen again.
Council Member Steinberg said Council treads lightly on free speech. He noted that
there have been petitioners that have spoken to Council that have been deemed
inappropriate but were allowed to continue. He added that Council Member Dunn
had many other opportunities to express his opinion on the proclamation versus
writing comments on his signature line. Mr. Steinberg asked what the process is for
removal of a Council Member. Ms. Notar said that censure is different than
removal. Mr. Steinberg noted that both he and Vice Mayor Martinez were in favor of
censure and would revisit this with Council. Ms. Biberaj asked about the censure
process, who can participate in the dialogue and how does a vote take place. She
expressed a loss of confidence when the Mayor shut down the last request for censure
before it was even started. Ms. Biberaj said there was a lot of confusion as to whether
there was no vote because of a process or a personal opinion. She added that this is
where the call for a recall stems from noting that there's nothing in record of the
Mayor supporting the NAACP and now they don't know how individual members
support the NAACP. A vote would have identified the supporters. Mr. Steinberg
said he cannot speak for the Mayor regarding her support of the NAACP but it was
his understanding that she is a long-standing member. Pastor Thomas stated that was
incorrect and that Mayor Burk has not renewed her membership since 2018, is not a
current member and when she was a member it was not for a significant amount of
time. Pastor Thomas said that oftentimes the Mayor's position on NAACP issues is
that she cannot help which has forced the organization to turn to the media influences
in order to gain support. Pastor Thomas gave the Sycolin Cemetery as a good
example. She added that the former NAACP President Philip Thompson and his
wife Tanja were attacked by Council Member Dunn in the past and nothing was
done. She said if something had been done then, that they would not be at this
meeting. Council Member Steinberg asked for clarification on the comments made
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regarding the Sycolin Cemetery. Pastor Thomas said there is a lot of history on this
project that is not the subject of the meeting, but that when asked for help from the
Mayor it was not there and that there had to be a complete shutdown before she
would take action. Mr. Steinberg asked if the inaction was directed at the Mayor.
Pastor Thomas noted that she is a member of Council. She added that she is a
democratic Mayor that is always coming down on the wrong side of the NAACP.
She thanked Vice Mayor Martinez and Council Member Steinberg for penning a
letter in support of the NAACP. Pastor Thomas questioned Mayor Burk's bravery for
not attending the meeting and asked those in attendance how she did not see the
defaced proclamation before it was handed out in error. She added that she likes the
new process and is pleased that the proclamations will be correct but that the Mayor's
actions were almost unforgivable and disrespectful. Mr. Steinberg stated that he did
not believe that it was deliberate act. Pastor Thomas said that if the proclamation was
being given to a Jewish community that it would not happen. She said that there was
already a known problem with this proclamation so why would the Mayor not double
check to be sure it was correct before presenting it. Pastor Thomas said that it
deserved a second look but as an African American community they are not given
that second look. Vice Mayor Martinez said part of the issue that evening was that
there were events that were unexpected and that blaming the Mayor is not an excuse.
He added that Council does not target the African American community and to say
that they would treat a different community is wrong. Pastor Thomas said that
Council is hesitant to act when the NAACP is targeted. Ms. Biberaj noted that the
NAACP looks at issues with a different interest. She said without that same lens they
don't have the same support or expectations. She noted that the disappointment is
real and appreciates the policies and procedural changes but while Council deals with
hundreds of issues, there is this one issue that is very important to the NAACP. They
would like to focus on the issues and while it appears everything is directed at the
Mayor, she is the leader but it will take the whole Council to help the NAACP feel
more comfortable moving forward and feeling respected.
Ms. Notar noted that Council will be discussing its Ethics Policy at the
September 9, 2019, Work Session. Ms. Biberaj said that is good that Council will be
addressing this but asked for clarification on what the current policy is for disciplinary
action. Ms. Notar said that unfortunately defamatory language is not actionable.
Pastor Thomas said she understands that there's nothing that can be done about KKK
flyers. She said that is demeaning language that they cannot do anything about but
that Council Member Dunn used his platform as an elected official to demean people.
She said that there has to be some action in the Ethics Policy. Pastor Thomas asked
where are they and when will they start talking about them. Ms. Notar said that
Council will be discussing its Ethics Policy. Pastor Thomas asked if there was a Book
of Discipline. Ms. Notar said that a Book of Discipline is usually included in the
rules. Ms. Biberaj asked if the Town had this. Ms. Notar said they do not. Ms.
Biberaj asked if they will to which Mr. Steinberg said Ms. Notar could not answer this
as it was a conversation that Council would have to have. Ms. Biberaj said that it is a
conversation that everyone wants to know what Council's expectations are going to
be. She reiterated that in the world there are crazy harsh words being used they want
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to know how Council is going to express its views. As a community she added that
they need to know where Council stands and that there should not be passive -
aggressive behavior. That way everyone will know someone's position as he has the
opportunity to speak in the open.
Pastor Thomas stated that they want Council to add specific language to their
Code of Rules and Code of Conduct that Council act at a certain level of decency.
She noted that it was recently reported about a high level White Supremacist holding
meetings and recruiting in Leesburg. The NAACP wants protection from Council.
They want a policy that protects their freedom. Mr. Dentler provide the NAACP
representatives with a copy of Council's current Code of Ethics. Pastor Thomas said
bringing it up will show who supports the NAACP and who does not. Mr. Steinberg
agrees to have the conversation and said this is a highly visible situation. He said
while he is not a member of the African American community, he can have an
understanding of the pain and the hurt. He also noted that he learned of the White
Supremacist here in Town.
Pastor Thomas addressed the Memorandum of Understanding with the Town
and that it is heavy on the Police side of Town operations but expressed a desire to
have a Work Session on how the Town can augment the agreement to include Town
Council issues. She noted that the current agreement with the Police Department has
been working well and that she typically receives updates from the Chief of Police or
the Police Public Information Officer, as necessary. Mr. Dentler handed out copies
of the current NAACP/Town of Leesburg MOU. Pastor Thomas said that if a
similar relationship was in place like they have with the Police Department, then she
would have expected a phone call from the Town saying that there's an issue with the
Proclamation and not to come instead of walking into the time bomb. Council
Member Steinberg asked if Pastor Thomas thought it was intentional that the wrong
proclamation was presented. Pastor Thomas said that Council knew that the original
proclamation was incorrect and resigned it at the meeting. She asked for clarification
as to why the incorrect ones was there. Mr. Dentler explained that when he was
apprised of the situation he asked Ms. Boeing to prepare a clean version for Council
to sign but not destroy the signed one because staff cannot tell Council how to act.
Therefore, two copies of the old proclamation and two copies of the new
proclamation were given to Council to decide how they wanted to proceed. Mr.
Dentler said it was an honest mix up on the dais. Pastor Thomas said she could see
that but asked why there couldn't have been only one copy. Mr. Dentler said if
Council passes its new policy at the Council meeting, that it will be the process
moving forward.
Ms. Biberaj asked about communication. Pastor Thomas noted that they
would like to be better informed when issues arise. She said there is currently nothing
in place for Council to notify the NAACP. Ms. Biberaj said it would create more
opportunity to have dialogue with Council before issues escalate. Council Member
Steinberg asked the NAACP to come up with a draft suggested MOU for Council and
they agreed. Council Member Steinberg noted that they can't have a meeting with
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more than two Council Members and a meeting with the full Council is a little
harder. He encouraged them to come up with a process to share with Council. Vice
Mayor Martinez noted that he and Council Member Steinberg could call for a Special
Meeting on the subject but with schedules it may be hard to get more than four
members to attend. He suggested the NAACP meet individually with each Council
Member to discuss.
Pastor Thomas said that there has been damage to the community. Ms.
Biberaj asked for more clarification from Council and to acknowledge was has
happened and what is being done. Pastor Thomas said that the community needs a
good apology. She said that Council Member Dunn tried to sign the proclamation
but it was not available. She said that was unfortunate and that what they need is an
apology for what happened. She added that they need disciplinary actions that would
be in the Ethics Policy and in the Code of Conduct. Pastor Thomas said censure is
not off the table. She would like to see it brought up and a good vote taken. She said
the last thing Council wants to do is shut down the conversation with the NAACP.
They need to talk through the issues. Mr. Steinberg asked Pastor Thomas to
elaborate more on the last item. Pastor Thomas noted it was about the censure
motion that was defeated and that there should have been some discussion. She said
the reason why the proclamation was so hurtful was that it was about bringing
attention to correcting the age of a 14-year old lynching victim. Pastor Thomas said
that Council Member's Dunn's actions tried to reshape what this proclamation was
about and action that the NAACP found offensive. Ms. Biberaj asked if that was in a
process as to why the vote did not continue. Mr. Steinberg said it was a 3-4 vote. He
noted that several motions failed 3-4 which did not allow for any further discussion.
Ms. Biberaj noted she wanted to understand the process so that she will know what
can be done to reengage the conversation. Mr. Steinberg said that each Council
Member is an individual member and that everyone has an equal vote and that the
majority drives the action which may not always be favorable.
Pastor Thomas thanked Vice Mayor Martinez and Council Member Steinberg
for their efforts. She noted that Vice Mayor Martinez always takes her calls and that
they have discussed a lot of issues. Pastor Thomas noted that this is not just about the
African American community. If Council is doing this to the NAACP then they will
do it to other communities.
Ms. Tandy asked who the draft of the MOU should be sent to. Mr. Dentler
recommended sending it to the Mayor and Council. He noted if they send it to Ms.
Notar or himself they will simply forward to Council.
3. Adjournment
The meeting adjourned at 10:33 a.m.
(?,„26:e4.,e
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Clerk of Council
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