HomeMy Public PortalAbout03-09-2004PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES - MARCH 9, 2004
PRESENT: BILL LOE, RON JOHNSON, MARILYN FORTIN, ELIZABETH WEIR, DICK
PICARD, SHARON JOHNSON AND LENNY LEUER. ALSO PRESENT,
CITY ADMINISTRATOR CHAD ADAMS, PLANNING AND ZONING
ADMINISTRATOR LOREN KOHNEN, CITY ENGINEER TOM KELLOGG
AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON
ABSENT: JERRY BROST AND MARY VERBICK
1. Chairperson Elizabeth Weir called the meeting to order at 7:01 p.m. Ms. Weir reminded
everyone the Planning Commission was a recommending body and the City Council made the
final decisions.
Ms. Weir added one discussion item to the agenda - developers meeting with planning
commission members
MOVED BY RON JOHNSON AND SECONDED BY SHARON JOHNSON TO APPROVE
THE ADDITION TO THE AGENDA
MOTION PASSED.
2. FARMERS STATE BANK OF HAMEL - LOT COMBINATION AND SITE PLAN
REVIEW FOR BUILDING ADDITION AT 145 HAMEL ROAD - PUBLIC
HEARING
LOT COMBINATION
Loren Kohnen read his memo to the Planning Commission and put up an overhead showing the
lots to be combined.
Paul Meyer, architect, said the combination was straight forward.
Lenny Leuer asked about the several easements and the easement marked per condemnation
proceedings. He also asked about the Mill Drive access.
Shorty Dorweiler said that the paper work for the Mill Drive access was given to the city
attorney to file and it never was.
L. Kohnen said it has been taken care of now.
L. Leuer asked about the easement across the back of the property.
P. Meyer said it is an existing access for the property to the east. He said they are not proposing
changing it, it is an existing easement on file.
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March 9, 2004
L. Leuer asked about the easement on the east boundary line - it appears to be on both sides of
the property line, but on the bank side, it does not go all the way to the back of the property.
L. Kohnen said it is part of a shared access for Hamel Road and the bank does not need the
access all the way to the back.
L. Leuer asked about the curb that is mentioned in Tom's letter.
Tom Kellogg said it was a suggestion for the east boundary to help keep storm water on site. He
said this is one solution for a design consideration for the storm water.
P. Meyer said this is not a new easement and they are not looking at modifying any easements,
they are just combining the lots. He said that possibly the south side of the post office site will
be paved and in the future maybe some cross over potential.
L. Leuer said he does not see the typical 10' drainage and utility easements that we usually see
and do we want those.
T. Kellogg said he is not sure in front.
Elizabeth Weir said in the Uptown Hamel ordinance there is 0' setbacks and asked if we could
work around the easements.
L. Kohnen said utilities will be in the street.
MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY DICK PICARD TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE COMBINATION OF THE TWO LOTS AT 135 AND 145 HAMEL
ROAD.
MOTION PASSED.
SITE PLAN REVIEW
Loren Kohnen put up overheads and explained the new proposal. He also put up overheads of
the different elevations, mentioned the front porch, etc. that is planned.
Paul Meyer, architect, said that Loren described the proposal very well. He said that they
listened to both the planning commission and city council comments of their concept plan and
has taken them all into consideration. He said he did have some questions and comments on the
staff comments:
1. Lighting - the shoe box style does not fit with the Uptown Hamel look that is desired in the
ordinance. He said they would like to use a more decorative fixture on the south side of the
building and for the wall scones.
L. Kohnen said this could go to the council as a recommendation.
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2 - Roof top screening - he wondered how that was defined.
3 - Landscaped island in the parking lot - He said they would prefer just a light and not curb and
landscaping because they would lose 2 parking stalls.
4 - Storm water issues
Elizabeth Weir said that could be worked out with staff
P. Meyer this plan would be about 700 more square feet of hardcover and they could reduce it
some, but it would eliminate some parking. He also said that the watershed has reviewed the
plans and say they are fine.
Ron Johnson said the design is very well done and reflects the planning commission's first
consideration. He asked staff why there was the suggestion for the island in the parking lot.
L. Kohnen said we have requested them in the past to help break up the expanse of parking lots.
E. Weir said she would not like to see any parking lost.
L. Kohnen said he wanted to say that even thought it says 20' for the light pole, the total height
would be about 23' with the base.
Sharon Johnson said she agreed that the shoe box lighting is not what we want for Uptown
Hamel. She referenced the lighting that is on Applebee's and Ruby Tuesday's. She thought
something like that would work very well.
L. Kohnen said we could allow some different design with the lighting just so it does not bounce
light out.
E. Weir said she would like us to conform to the Uptown Hamel ordinance and have this worked
out before it goes to the city council.
Dick Picard asked about the area charge that was mentioned in Tom's letter.
Tom Kellogg said he wanted to call attention to the improvements that were talked about for the
storm water system and the potential cost involved. He said at the very least the applicant should
use BMP (best management practices) to help reduce the overall storm water burden to the
system. He said the city is looking at TIF for the storm water and other infrastructure
improvements.
There was discussion of TIF and how it works and it would be used for the infrastructure
improvements.
L. Leuer asked if the bank has a sign and temperature sign now.
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Shorty Dorweiler said yes there is one now, but the proposed one is a new one in a different
location.
L. Leuer asked about the wall mounted lights to light up their sign and logo.
The design of the lights by the logo and sign were discussed.
E. Weir said her questions had been discussed.
Sharon Johnson asked too about the wall mounted lights.
L. Leuer said like a flag pole, up cast.
L. Kohnen said the lights for the sign would be controlled by the sign ordinance.
L. Leuer said he thought we allowed backlit signs, but up cast?
P. Meyer said we are one story above ground and if there were downcast lights, they would shine
on the sidewalk below and this way they would illuminate the sign and the source would not be
seen.
L. Kohnen said if they were the proper wattage it could work.
S. Dorweiler said he has lived here all his life and sat in on many Uptown Hamel meetings. He
said this building design fits very well in what Uptown Hamel wanted. He said the logo sign is a
focal point of the building and if they can not have light cast on it, why spend the money for the
sign.
E. Weir said to have the details for the lighting for the sign when you go to the city council
meeting.
Marilyn Fortin said the bank has done a great job with the building design, the landscaping,
porches, etc.
MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO
RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR HAMEL BANK WITH
THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS
1 Any roof top equipment must be completely screened using materials similar to the exterior
of the building
2. All lighting onsite and building must be downcast shoe box style only
3. Accent lighting on the building to be resolved before going to city council with the Uptown
Hamel and sign ordinances taken into consideration. Style, wattage, etc. to be resolved.
4. Four maple trees on the south side of the proposed building and existing building should be
3" in size.
5. The light pole in the south parking lot shall be 20' in height.
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6. No outside storage
7. Storm water issue to be resolved and all requirements of the city engineer.
MOTION PASSED.
3. CHARLES CUDD — ARROWHEAD DRIVE N OF HIGHWAY 55 —
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT FOR MUSA TIME LINE AND RE-
ZONING FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO RESIDENTIAL PUD AND
SUBDIVISION — PUBLIC HEARING
Elizabeth Weir said that we would discuss the comprehensive plan amendment and the re-
zoning.
Loren Kohnen read his memo to the Planning Commission, going over the pros and cons of the
proposal. He introduced Bob Leistikow and Rick Denman from Charles Cudd and Robert
Scherer and Robyn Caufman from the Metropolitan Council. Loren then put up overheads of
the area.
Rick Denman, introduced himself and said he was president of the Signature Homes Division of
Charles Cudd. He said they realize this will be a long journey and know there will be challenges.
He said their vision is so solid and such a good idea and has merit. He said Medina's
comprehensive plan does say the city will consider development that has merit. Rick mentioned
the location of the proposal.
R. Denman said it is a magnificent piece of property with a stop light'/4 mile away and the Faue
family was willing to sell it. He said they had met with city staff, Chad, Loren and Jim to get
feed back from them. Rick said some of the pluses include paving of the road, sewer and water
and a park. He also said they know they had a hurdle with the Met council.
R. Denman said they had met with some of the neighbors, the planning commission and city
council with the concept plan. He said they can show that the benefits far outweigh the
negatives. He said the Charles Cudd Company is one of the top 20 builders in the Twin Cities
and is not publicly owned. Rick said the buyers they go after are the luxury home buyers that
want to live in Medina. He said some of fears to overcome include: 1 — Opening the floodgate;
2 — The # of homes — we agree to limit the # of homes to 40/year and 3 — There is a very minimal
area to develop in the Urban Reserve area.
Roger Scherer, Metropolitan Council Representative for District #1, said Medina is an excellent
community. He said the Met Council has the obligation to find homes for 1 million people in the
next 30 years and we do look at higher density than you normally have in Medina. He said to
keep in mind where you have sewer and water. He also said the 3/acre is not too dense of a
development with all the open space that is in Medina. He said there is a floating MUSA and in
his view the Met Council would approve this comp plan amendment.
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Terry Dunlay, 4292 Arrowhead Drive, said with the influx of so many new people, where will
they go to school. She said the Wayzata schools are already over crowded. She said the trail is
another concern.
L. Kohnen said the trail would access on the north side of the private road, but on the Cudd
property.
T. Dunley said that is 50-100' from my bathroom window.
R. Denman said they are thinking of a floating bridge as shown on the plan to access the park
area.
T. Dunlay asked if there would be sidewalks in the development and Rick said yes, in the
perimeter of the development.
Luann Mosio, 4268 Arrowhead Drive, asked if sewer and water came in, would they also be
assessed and Loren said no.
Terry Zimmerman, 6201 Butterworth Lane, Corcoran, wanted to know how many hours Cudd
had spent at the property in question.
R. Denman said he had not camped out there, but has walked the entire property 4-5 times.
T. Zimmerman asked if he had been there at night and Rick said yes. Terry wondered if this was
a wise place to put homes with all the noise, etc. in the area.
R. Denman said he has been there at night when the trains go by.
T. Zimmerman said he is 500' north of the Cudd line and it rattles homes where he is. He said
he disagrees with the Met council on density. Medina is a 1st ring suburb and who moves to
Medina to be on a city lot. This will bring traffic on Hackamore and we moved here because of
the dead end road. Our home values will be diminished and this road is a ticking time bomb
now, even the school buses go fast.
Bill Freeland, 4290 Arrowhead Drive, said they moved here 3 years ago and what bothers me is
that the previous owners were told that sewer would be in the area in 20 years. The severity of
the change, the impact — there are 2 homeowners who are 50' or so from this proposed
development. He wondered how the lighting was handled and the drainage affects us all and
also the environmental impact. Bill said we cannot change growth, it is coming, but how do we
make is as `Medina' as we can, make it quaint and as much `country' as we can. He said
security is also a big question. How do the police get to the park — over our private road, which
is the best way to get there.
Elizabeth Sedgwick, 4182 Arrowhead Drive, said they have lived here 16 years and been to lots
of meetings. She said she has mixed feelings. She said they love the same things that their
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neighbors do. Elizabeth said they work with landscaping with developers and they have
concluded that development is inevitable, but now or 10-15 years?. She said that Cudd has a
great product and this is an opportunity for the City to work with Cudd. She said trees and
landscaping will help with the lights. Elizabeth said the neighbors felt that Cudd showed so
much concern over their feelings that they are fearful if we turn them away, what will be back on
our plate in 10 years?
Mark Lamberty, 4250 Arrowhead Drive, said they are right on the corner of Arrowhead and the
private road and they are concerned with their privacy. He said they did not move out here to
have townhouses in their backyard. It will devalue my property so make our property the same
zoning so we can subdivide also.
Tracy Lamberty said the crest of the hill is very dangerous.
Marilyn Zimmerman, 6201 Butterworth Lane, Corcoran, said her main concern is the safety
issue. She said she would propose to close the road at the border of Medina and Corcoran.
E. Weir said if this comes back to the planning commission, then we would discuss these
concerns.
Steve Barkley, 1155 Settlers Road, said they bought in 1998 and called the city to ask what the
plan was to the west. They were told the road would be paved only if the residents want it. He
said Medina is open space and big lots. He said the cows were there first. Steve said his concern
is that Medina has a master plan and now someone wants to change it. He felt that 3/4 acre lots
should be the minimum. Hackamore road is narrow, 2 lanes and if there are more homes the
road needs to be addressed. Steve also said that density and traffic are his biggest concerns.
L. Mosio said they would like to work with Cudd to have sewer and water and paved road on our
(private) road also.
Mark Nordvall, 1150 Settlers Road, said they moved here in 1999 because of the master plan to
keep Medina rural. He said he is concerned with the property values and safety. He said this
will change the image of Medina.
Frank O'Keefe, 1855 Katrinka Road, said they moved here 6 years ago for the rural atmosphere.
He said they have 7 acres and the density of the proposal bothers him. He said 3 per acre seems
extremely dense, 3 acres seems better.
Chris Sundin, 1525 Hackamore Road, said his concern is the road safety. There are several blind
curves and hills. He said south of us on Highway 55 with the commercial traffic and more
residential traffic, he cannot see that volume of traffic whether the road is paved or not. He said
they moved here in 1988 for the rural atmosphere and this is looking at a pretty big change. He
said there will be loss of recreational activities for the residents, walking, jogging, etc. He said
he was wondering about the trail easement in their front yard.
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L. Kohnen said the trail would be on the west side of Arrowhead.
C. Sundin asked if the trail would stop where the bank is.
L. Kohnen said they would move the road as far to the east as possible and there would be no
trail on your property, it would be in the ROW if an easement is not gotten from you.
Anthony Sundin, 1525 Hackamore Road, said is it a 30' road.
L. Kohnen said that would not all be paved — it would be 24' paved with 3' shoulders.
There was discussion of the road, trail, etc.
C. Sundin asked if there would be a trail if no development.
E. Weir said sometime in the future.
C. Sundin asked about their zoning if this went forward.
L. Kohnen said it would stay as is unless you ask it to be changed.
Karen Eide, 1555 Hackamore Road, said there would be 3 lots up to my property line. She said
she has been very upset about this proposal and the city should think about access to our property
(14 acres) for the future. She said they have lived here since 1975, they farm, have sheep. They
have enjoyed country life all this time and feel very bad about it changing. She said she wanted
the city to see that her property is not cut off.
Bob Engebretson, 1140 Settlers Road, said he is concerned with the density — it doesn't fit
Medina. He was concerned that this would be a precedent with the high density and it will
mushroom. He felt 3/4 of an acre minimum was fine.
Bruce Workman said they are somewhat involved in that they own land just to the west and
about 1 1/2 acre is on the east side. He said they own about 100 acres north of Highway 55 in
medina and would not mind the 3/4 acre minimum, but that is not what the Met Council wants.
He said Corcoran is allowing smaller lots without sewer. Bruce also said if this doesn't happen
Cudd could sell to someone else and they will do what they want. He said he has been involved
with two comp plans the current plan was done to be flexible. He said we should think of the
merits of change.
F. O'Keefe wanted to know what Met Council's role was in this.
E. Weir said the Met Council coordinates development in the 7 county area and their idea is to
contain sprawl and infill — we are a border city and unfortunate for us, there was pressure to put
the RR-UR zoning in for the Met Council to approve out plan (to increase density).
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R. Scherer said we want to maintain the maximum investment in our sewer works — we have the
best in the country and we control the amount of pipe in the ground and we would rather not
have the pipe go so far, so need more people on the sewer where the pipes are. We have to
supply for the population that comes here. He said property rights go to your property and not
your neighbors.
PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS ON COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT
Lenny Leuer asked Roger Scherer if the 2.86/acre included the island.
Robyn Caufman said the 2.86 does not include the island.
L. Leuer asked if the proposal would meet the requirements of the Urban Reserve for the Met
Council.
R. Scherer said yes, it would probably pass if the City wants it.
Sharon Johnson said we are dealing with an known (Cudd) here and can negotiate for what the
neighbors want.
Dick Picard said we have a comprehensive plan that is not even 3 years old — he wanted to know
what criteria we use to deviate from it — He read from the comp plan — health, safety, morals,
traffic — Dick said we have no guidelines and if this change is made how do we judge the next
deviation — He said his feeling have nothing to do with Cudd, just what the comprehensive plan
says.
Elizabeth Weir said she struggled with this. She said she was involved with the writing of the
comp plan and she does not think that this land will be left until 2020 — the pressure has
increased. She said it makes some sense — the proposal is both complimentary and contiguous to
Foxberry Farms. Liz said we are being asked to grant something exceptional and we have Cudd
over a barrel and will go for it. She said it is very unusual to get infrastructure and not pay for it
and also to get the `island' for a park.
E. Weir said Jim Dillman said there was sufficient water for this and Uptown Hamel. She said
because we know Cudd and their track record in the City make this one reason for
recommending it. She said she understands the residents but we could be here in 6 years with
someone who doesn't care as much as the Cudd Company.
Marilyn Fortin said it is hard to change the comprehensive plan and we shouldn't do it lightly.
She said she has heard great comments but still is not sure if we should, not sure if we shouldn't
do this.
Ron Johnson said he agrees with Marilyn and he felt that Cudd would help everyone.
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Bill Loe said he is an advocate of maintaining the rural character of Medina and we need criteria
to change. He said the Met Council did approve the current comp plan, but he realizes that
change will not wait for 2020, but maybe 2010. He said he cannot think of anyone who could do
any better on a proposal than Cudd, but it seems too soon to change.
R. Denman said he knows the concerns and they would limit the number of homes to 40/year and
not start until 2005 and go to 2009.
B. Loe said that is not so much an issue but once approved a precedent is set.
E. Weir said there seems to be a strong recommendation that we develop a set of criteria for
comp plan changes. She said the pressure will come before us again.
L. Leuer said Cudd's material shows Outlot A and wanted to clarify the piece on the east side of
Arrowhead and also that the piece on the west side of Arrowhead was not included in the comp
plan change. He then asked to see the overhead of the buildable and non -buildable areas.
Bob Leistikow, Charles Cudd Company, said they had asked their engineer to do a study with the
buildable area in the Urban Reserve area. 415 acres is developable out of 808 acres.
B. Loe said that the Met Council approved the comp plan for 3 per acre for 2020.
R. Scherer said with the townhouse development that is in and Uptown Hamel proposals, Medina
does have some higher density.
MOVED BY LENNEY LEUER AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CHANGE FOR THE AREA INCLUDED IN
THE CUDD PROPOSAL.
MOTION PASSED WITH 4 YEAS AND 3 NAYS AS FOLLOWS:
Leuer — yea
S. Johnson — yea
Picard — nay — no criteria to change
Weir — yea
Fortin — nay
R. Johnson — yea
Loe — nay — no criteria
Terry Dunlay wanted to know if this also includes their property and Loren said that would be a
separate application.
MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF RE -ZONING THE PROEPRTY IN THE CUDD PROPOSAL FROM RURAL
RESIDENTIAL TO RESIDENTIAL PUD.
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MOTION PASSED WITH 6 YEAS AND 1 NAY - NAY - DICK PICARD
4. ADDED ITEMS
Dick Picard passed out a note on the importance of the Pioneer -Sarah Creek meeting regarding
Lake Independence and encouraged the planning commissioners to attend.
Elizabeth Weir talked about planning commissioners meeting one on one with developers. She
said she felt it is a sales job when they want to meet one on one and said she would like to
tighten up for next year and agree to work as a body and not do any one on one meetings.
Bruce Workman said the planning commissioners should be able to go to a site on their own.
A11 the planning commissioners agreed with Elizabeth and Bruce.
5. ZONING ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT
Loren Kohnen said he agreed with the above discussion. Loren stated that the next two items
before the planning commission will be Dean Johnson for Keller Estates and a variance on
Lakeshore Ave in Independence Beach.
Loren said the developers interested in the property at Hwy 55 and County Road 19 are still
active.
Elizabeth Weir stated that the intersection of Highway 12 and County Road 29 will be coming to
the planning commission.
L. Kohnen said yes, the city council has sent this to the planning commission.
Bruce Workman asked if the high water table will be a problem on the Keller property and Loren
said there will have to be a separate pipe to carry water from foundations to a drainage area.
6. INTRODUCTION OF NEW CITY PLANNER/GOOD-BYE TO LOREN
Chad Adams said that the new city planner is Joshua Doty, who was an associate planner for the
City of Plymouth. Chad said that Loren will be retained as a consultant.
Elizabeth Weir speaking of behalf of the entire planning commission said that Loren has been
very supportive and has a great deal of knowledge on the City of Medina.
Loren said that he is on the planning commission for the City of Corcoran and when things come
before them they often ask how the City of Medina would do it. He told the planning
commission that he has learned a lot from them and complimented Liz and the rest of the
planning commission.
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7. MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 10, 2004
There were some grammatical errors corrected.
MOVED BY DICK PICARD AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO APPROVE THE
MINUTES AS CORRECTED.
MOTION PASSED.
MOVED BY BILL LOE AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED — Meeting adjourned at 10:02 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
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March 9, 2004
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