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HomeMy Public PortalAbout03-09-2004PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES - MARCH 9, 2004 PRESENT: BILL LOE, RON JOHNSON, MARILYN FORTIN, ELIZABETH WEIR, DICK PICARD, SHARON JOHNSON AND LENNY LEUER. ALSO PRESENT, CITY ADMINISTRATOR CHAD ADAMS, PLANNING AND ZONING ADMINISTRATOR LOREN KOHNEN, CITY ENGINEER TOM KELLOGG AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON ABSENT: JERRY BROST AND MARY VERBICK 1. Chairperson Elizabeth Weir called the meeting to order at 7:01 p.m. Ms. Weir reminded everyone the Planning Commission was a recommending body and the City Council made the final decisions. Ms. Weir added one discussion item to the agenda - developers meeting with planning commission members MOVED BY RON JOHNSON AND SECONDED BY SHARON JOHNSON TO APPROVE THE ADDITION TO THE AGENDA MOTION PASSED. 2. FARMERS STATE BANK OF HAMEL - LOT COMBINATION AND SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR BUILDING ADDITION AT 145 HAMEL ROAD - PUBLIC HEARING LOT COMBINATION Loren Kohnen read his memo to the Planning Commission and put up an overhead showing the lots to be combined. Paul Meyer, architect, said the combination was straight forward. Lenny Leuer asked about the several easements and the easement marked per condemnation proceedings. He also asked about the Mill Drive access. Shorty Dorweiler said that the paper work for the Mill Drive access was given to the city attorney to file and it never was. L. Kohnen said it has been taken care of now. L. Leuer asked about the easement across the back of the property. P. Meyer said it is an existing access for the property to the east. He said they are not proposing changing it, it is an existing easement on file. Planning Commission Minutes 1 March 9, 2004 L. Leuer asked about the easement on the east boundary line - it appears to be on both sides of the property line, but on the bank side, it does not go all the way to the back of the property. L. Kohnen said it is part of a shared access for Hamel Road and the bank does not need the access all the way to the back. L. Leuer asked about the curb that is mentioned in Tom's letter. Tom Kellogg said it was a suggestion for the east boundary to help keep storm water on site. He said this is one solution for a design consideration for the storm water. P. Meyer said this is not a new easement and they are not looking at modifying any easements, they are just combining the lots. He said that possibly the south side of the post office site will be paved and in the future maybe some cross over potential. L. Leuer said he does not see the typical 10' drainage and utility easements that we usually see and do we want those. T. Kellogg said he is not sure in front. Elizabeth Weir said in the Uptown Hamel ordinance there is 0' setbacks and asked if we could work around the easements. L. Kohnen said utilities will be in the street. MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY DICK PICARD TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE COMBINATION OF THE TWO LOTS AT 135 AND 145 HAMEL ROAD. MOTION PASSED. SITE PLAN REVIEW Loren Kohnen put up overheads and explained the new proposal. He also put up overheads of the different elevations, mentioned the front porch, etc. that is planned. Paul Meyer, architect, said that Loren described the proposal very well. He said that they listened to both the planning commission and city council comments of their concept plan and has taken them all into consideration. He said he did have some questions and comments on the staff comments: 1. Lighting - the shoe box style does not fit with the Uptown Hamel look that is desired in the ordinance. He said they would like to use a more decorative fixture on the south side of the building and for the wall scones. L. Kohnen said this could go to the council as a recommendation. Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 2 2 - Roof top screening - he wondered how that was defined. 3 - Landscaped island in the parking lot - He said they would prefer just a light and not curb and landscaping because they would lose 2 parking stalls. 4 - Storm water issues Elizabeth Weir said that could be worked out with staff P. Meyer this plan would be about 700 more square feet of hardcover and they could reduce it some, but it would eliminate some parking. He also said that the watershed has reviewed the plans and say they are fine. Ron Johnson said the design is very well done and reflects the planning commission's first consideration. He asked staff why there was the suggestion for the island in the parking lot. L. Kohnen said we have requested them in the past to help break up the expanse of parking lots. E. Weir said she would not like to see any parking lost. L. Kohnen said he wanted to say that even thought it says 20' for the light pole, the total height would be about 23' with the base. Sharon Johnson said she agreed that the shoe box lighting is not what we want for Uptown Hamel. She referenced the lighting that is on Applebee's and Ruby Tuesday's. She thought something like that would work very well. L. Kohnen said we could allow some different design with the lighting just so it does not bounce light out. E. Weir said she would like us to conform to the Uptown Hamel ordinance and have this worked out before it goes to the city council. Dick Picard asked about the area charge that was mentioned in Tom's letter. Tom Kellogg said he wanted to call attention to the improvements that were talked about for the storm water system and the potential cost involved. He said at the very least the applicant should use BMP (best management practices) to help reduce the overall storm water burden to the system. He said the city is looking at TIF for the storm water and other infrastructure improvements. There was discussion of TIF and how it works and it would be used for the infrastructure improvements. L. Leuer asked if the bank has a sign and temperature sign now. Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 3 Shorty Dorweiler said yes there is one now, but the proposed one is a new one in a different location. L. Leuer asked about the wall mounted lights to light up their sign and logo. The design of the lights by the logo and sign were discussed. E. Weir said her questions had been discussed. Sharon Johnson asked too about the wall mounted lights. L. Leuer said like a flag pole, up cast. L. Kohnen said the lights for the sign would be controlled by the sign ordinance. L. Leuer said he thought we allowed backlit signs, but up cast? P. Meyer said we are one story above ground and if there were downcast lights, they would shine on the sidewalk below and this way they would illuminate the sign and the source would not be seen. L. Kohnen said if they were the proper wattage it could work. S. Dorweiler said he has lived here all his life and sat in on many Uptown Hamel meetings. He said this building design fits very well in what Uptown Hamel wanted. He said the logo sign is a focal point of the building and if they can not have light cast on it, why spend the money for the sign. E. Weir said to have the details for the lighting for the sign when you go to the city council meeting. Marilyn Fortin said the bank has done a great job with the building design, the landscaping, porches, etc. MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR HAMEL BANK WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS 1 Any roof top equipment must be completely screened using materials similar to the exterior of the building 2. All lighting onsite and building must be downcast shoe box style only 3. Accent lighting on the building to be resolved before going to city council with the Uptown Hamel and sign ordinances taken into consideration. Style, wattage, etc. to be resolved. 4. Four maple trees on the south side of the proposed building and existing building should be 3" in size. 5. The light pole in the south parking lot shall be 20' in height. Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 4 6. No outside storage 7. Storm water issue to be resolved and all requirements of the city engineer. MOTION PASSED. 3. CHARLES CUDD — ARROWHEAD DRIVE N OF HIGHWAY 55 — COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT FOR MUSA TIME LINE AND RE- ZONING FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO RESIDENTIAL PUD AND SUBDIVISION — PUBLIC HEARING Elizabeth Weir said that we would discuss the comprehensive plan amendment and the re- zoning. Loren Kohnen read his memo to the Planning Commission, going over the pros and cons of the proposal. He introduced Bob Leistikow and Rick Denman from Charles Cudd and Robert Scherer and Robyn Caufman from the Metropolitan Council. Loren then put up overheads of the area. Rick Denman, introduced himself and said he was president of the Signature Homes Division of Charles Cudd. He said they realize this will be a long journey and know there will be challenges. He said their vision is so solid and such a good idea and has merit. He said Medina's comprehensive plan does say the city will consider development that has merit. Rick mentioned the location of the proposal. R. Denman said it is a magnificent piece of property with a stop light'/4 mile away and the Faue family was willing to sell it. He said they had met with city staff, Chad, Loren and Jim to get feed back from them. Rick said some of the pluses include paving of the road, sewer and water and a park. He also said they know they had a hurdle with the Met council. R. Denman said they had met with some of the neighbors, the planning commission and city council with the concept plan. He said they can show that the benefits far outweigh the negatives. He said the Charles Cudd Company is one of the top 20 builders in the Twin Cities and is not publicly owned. Rick said the buyers they go after are the luxury home buyers that want to live in Medina. He said some of fears to overcome include: 1 — Opening the floodgate; 2 — The # of homes — we agree to limit the # of homes to 40/year and 3 — There is a very minimal area to develop in the Urban Reserve area. Roger Scherer, Metropolitan Council Representative for District #1, said Medina is an excellent community. He said the Met Council has the obligation to find homes for 1 million people in the next 30 years and we do look at higher density than you normally have in Medina. He said to keep in mind where you have sewer and water. He also said the 3/acre is not too dense of a development with all the open space that is in Medina. He said there is a floating MUSA and in his view the Met Council would approve this comp plan amendment. Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 5 Terry Dunlay, 4292 Arrowhead Drive, said with the influx of so many new people, where will they go to school. She said the Wayzata schools are already over crowded. She said the trail is another concern. L. Kohnen said the trail would access on the north side of the private road, but on the Cudd property. T. Dunley said that is 50-100' from my bathroom window. R. Denman said they are thinking of a floating bridge as shown on the plan to access the park area. T. Dunlay asked if there would be sidewalks in the development and Rick said yes, in the perimeter of the development. Luann Mosio, 4268 Arrowhead Drive, asked if sewer and water came in, would they also be assessed and Loren said no. Terry Zimmerman, 6201 Butterworth Lane, Corcoran, wanted to know how many hours Cudd had spent at the property in question. R. Denman said he had not camped out there, but has walked the entire property 4-5 times. T. Zimmerman asked if he had been there at night and Rick said yes. Terry wondered if this was a wise place to put homes with all the noise, etc. in the area. R. Denman said he has been there at night when the trains go by. T. Zimmerman said he is 500' north of the Cudd line and it rattles homes where he is. He said he disagrees with the Met council on density. Medina is a 1st ring suburb and who moves to Medina to be on a city lot. This will bring traffic on Hackamore and we moved here because of the dead end road. Our home values will be diminished and this road is a ticking time bomb now, even the school buses go fast. Bill Freeland, 4290 Arrowhead Drive, said they moved here 3 years ago and what bothers me is that the previous owners were told that sewer would be in the area in 20 years. The severity of the change, the impact — there are 2 homeowners who are 50' or so from this proposed development. He wondered how the lighting was handled and the drainage affects us all and also the environmental impact. Bill said we cannot change growth, it is coming, but how do we make is as `Medina' as we can, make it quaint and as much `country' as we can. He said security is also a big question. How do the police get to the park — over our private road, which is the best way to get there. Elizabeth Sedgwick, 4182 Arrowhead Drive, said they have lived here 16 years and been to lots of meetings. She said she has mixed feelings. She said they love the same things that their Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 6 neighbors do. Elizabeth said they work with landscaping with developers and they have concluded that development is inevitable, but now or 10-15 years?. She said that Cudd has a great product and this is an opportunity for the City to work with Cudd. She said trees and landscaping will help with the lights. Elizabeth said the neighbors felt that Cudd showed so much concern over their feelings that they are fearful if we turn them away, what will be back on our plate in 10 years? Mark Lamberty, 4250 Arrowhead Drive, said they are right on the corner of Arrowhead and the private road and they are concerned with their privacy. He said they did not move out here to have townhouses in their backyard. It will devalue my property so make our property the same zoning so we can subdivide also. Tracy Lamberty said the crest of the hill is very dangerous. Marilyn Zimmerman, 6201 Butterworth Lane, Corcoran, said her main concern is the safety issue. She said she would propose to close the road at the border of Medina and Corcoran. E. Weir said if this comes back to the planning commission, then we would discuss these concerns. Steve Barkley, 1155 Settlers Road, said they bought in 1998 and called the city to ask what the plan was to the west. They were told the road would be paved only if the residents want it. He said Medina is open space and big lots. He said the cows were there first. Steve said his concern is that Medina has a master plan and now someone wants to change it. He felt that 3/4 acre lots should be the minimum. Hackamore road is narrow, 2 lanes and if there are more homes the road needs to be addressed. Steve also said that density and traffic are his biggest concerns. L. Mosio said they would like to work with Cudd to have sewer and water and paved road on our (private) road also. Mark Nordvall, 1150 Settlers Road, said they moved here in 1999 because of the master plan to keep Medina rural. He said he is concerned with the property values and safety. He said this will change the image of Medina. Frank O'Keefe, 1855 Katrinka Road, said they moved here 6 years ago for the rural atmosphere. He said they have 7 acres and the density of the proposal bothers him. He said 3 per acre seems extremely dense, 3 acres seems better. Chris Sundin, 1525 Hackamore Road, said his concern is the road safety. There are several blind curves and hills. He said south of us on Highway 55 with the commercial traffic and more residential traffic, he cannot see that volume of traffic whether the road is paved or not. He said they moved here in 1988 for the rural atmosphere and this is looking at a pretty big change. He said there will be loss of recreational activities for the residents, walking, jogging, etc. He said he was wondering about the trail easement in their front yard. Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 7 L. Kohnen said the trail would be on the west side of Arrowhead. C. Sundin asked if the trail would stop where the bank is. L. Kohnen said they would move the road as far to the east as possible and there would be no trail on your property, it would be in the ROW if an easement is not gotten from you. Anthony Sundin, 1525 Hackamore Road, said is it a 30' road. L. Kohnen said that would not all be paved — it would be 24' paved with 3' shoulders. There was discussion of the road, trail, etc. C. Sundin asked if there would be a trail if no development. E. Weir said sometime in the future. C. Sundin asked about their zoning if this went forward. L. Kohnen said it would stay as is unless you ask it to be changed. Karen Eide, 1555 Hackamore Road, said there would be 3 lots up to my property line. She said she has been very upset about this proposal and the city should think about access to our property (14 acres) for the future. She said they have lived here since 1975, they farm, have sheep. They have enjoyed country life all this time and feel very bad about it changing. She said she wanted the city to see that her property is not cut off. Bob Engebretson, 1140 Settlers Road, said he is concerned with the density — it doesn't fit Medina. He was concerned that this would be a precedent with the high density and it will mushroom. He felt 3/4 of an acre minimum was fine. Bruce Workman said they are somewhat involved in that they own land just to the west and about 1 1/2 acre is on the east side. He said they own about 100 acres north of Highway 55 in medina and would not mind the 3/4 acre minimum, but that is not what the Met Council wants. He said Corcoran is allowing smaller lots without sewer. Bruce also said if this doesn't happen Cudd could sell to someone else and they will do what they want. He said he has been involved with two comp plans the current plan was done to be flexible. He said we should think of the merits of change. F. O'Keefe wanted to know what Met Council's role was in this. E. Weir said the Met Council coordinates development in the 7 county area and their idea is to contain sprawl and infill — we are a border city and unfortunate for us, there was pressure to put the RR-UR zoning in for the Met Council to approve out plan (to increase density). Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 8 R. Scherer said we want to maintain the maximum investment in our sewer works — we have the best in the country and we control the amount of pipe in the ground and we would rather not have the pipe go so far, so need more people on the sewer where the pipes are. We have to supply for the population that comes here. He said property rights go to your property and not your neighbors. PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS ON COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT Lenny Leuer asked Roger Scherer if the 2.86/acre included the island. Robyn Caufman said the 2.86 does not include the island. L. Leuer asked if the proposal would meet the requirements of the Urban Reserve for the Met Council. R. Scherer said yes, it would probably pass if the City wants it. Sharon Johnson said we are dealing with an known (Cudd) here and can negotiate for what the neighbors want. Dick Picard said we have a comprehensive plan that is not even 3 years old — he wanted to know what criteria we use to deviate from it — He read from the comp plan — health, safety, morals, traffic — Dick said we have no guidelines and if this change is made how do we judge the next deviation — He said his feeling have nothing to do with Cudd, just what the comprehensive plan says. Elizabeth Weir said she struggled with this. She said she was involved with the writing of the comp plan and she does not think that this land will be left until 2020 — the pressure has increased. She said it makes some sense — the proposal is both complimentary and contiguous to Foxberry Farms. Liz said we are being asked to grant something exceptional and we have Cudd over a barrel and will go for it. She said it is very unusual to get infrastructure and not pay for it and also to get the `island' for a park. E. Weir said Jim Dillman said there was sufficient water for this and Uptown Hamel. She said because we know Cudd and their track record in the City make this one reason for recommending it. She said she understands the residents but we could be here in 6 years with someone who doesn't care as much as the Cudd Company. Marilyn Fortin said it is hard to change the comprehensive plan and we shouldn't do it lightly. She said she has heard great comments but still is not sure if we should, not sure if we shouldn't do this. Ron Johnson said he agrees with Marilyn and he felt that Cudd would help everyone. Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 9 Bill Loe said he is an advocate of maintaining the rural character of Medina and we need criteria to change. He said the Met Council did approve the current comp plan, but he realizes that change will not wait for 2020, but maybe 2010. He said he cannot think of anyone who could do any better on a proposal than Cudd, but it seems too soon to change. R. Denman said he knows the concerns and they would limit the number of homes to 40/year and not start until 2005 and go to 2009. B. Loe said that is not so much an issue but once approved a precedent is set. E. Weir said there seems to be a strong recommendation that we develop a set of criteria for comp plan changes. She said the pressure will come before us again. L. Leuer said Cudd's material shows Outlot A and wanted to clarify the piece on the east side of Arrowhead and also that the piece on the west side of Arrowhead was not included in the comp plan change. He then asked to see the overhead of the buildable and non -buildable areas. Bob Leistikow, Charles Cudd Company, said they had asked their engineer to do a study with the buildable area in the Urban Reserve area. 415 acres is developable out of 808 acres. B. Loe said that the Met Council approved the comp plan for 3 per acre for 2020. R. Scherer said with the townhouse development that is in and Uptown Hamel proposals, Medina does have some higher density. MOVED BY LENNEY LEUER AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CHANGE FOR THE AREA INCLUDED IN THE CUDD PROPOSAL. MOTION PASSED WITH 4 YEAS AND 3 NAYS AS FOLLOWS: Leuer — yea S. Johnson — yea Picard — nay — no criteria to change Weir — yea Fortin — nay R. Johnson — yea Loe — nay — no criteria Terry Dunlay wanted to know if this also includes their property and Loren said that would be a separate application. MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF RE -ZONING THE PROEPRTY IN THE CUDD PROPOSAL FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO RESIDENTIAL PUD. Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 10 MOTION PASSED WITH 6 YEAS AND 1 NAY - NAY - DICK PICARD 4. ADDED ITEMS Dick Picard passed out a note on the importance of the Pioneer -Sarah Creek meeting regarding Lake Independence and encouraged the planning commissioners to attend. Elizabeth Weir talked about planning commissioners meeting one on one with developers. She said she felt it is a sales job when they want to meet one on one and said she would like to tighten up for next year and agree to work as a body and not do any one on one meetings. Bruce Workman said the planning commissioners should be able to go to a site on their own. A11 the planning commissioners agreed with Elizabeth and Bruce. 5. ZONING ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT Loren Kohnen said he agreed with the above discussion. Loren stated that the next two items before the planning commission will be Dean Johnson for Keller Estates and a variance on Lakeshore Ave in Independence Beach. Loren said the developers interested in the property at Hwy 55 and County Road 19 are still active. Elizabeth Weir stated that the intersection of Highway 12 and County Road 29 will be coming to the planning commission. L. Kohnen said yes, the city council has sent this to the planning commission. Bruce Workman asked if the high water table will be a problem on the Keller property and Loren said there will have to be a separate pipe to carry water from foundations to a drainage area. 6. INTRODUCTION OF NEW CITY PLANNER/GOOD-BYE TO LOREN Chad Adams said that the new city planner is Joshua Doty, who was an associate planner for the City of Plymouth. Chad said that Loren will be retained as a consultant. Elizabeth Weir speaking of behalf of the entire planning commission said that Loren has been very supportive and has a great deal of knowledge on the City of Medina. Loren said that he is on the planning commission for the City of Corcoran and when things come before them they often ask how the City of Medina would do it. He told the planning commission that he has learned a lot from them and complimented Liz and the rest of the planning commission. Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 11 7. MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 10, 2004 There were some grammatical errors corrected. MOVED BY DICK PICARD AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS CORRECTED. MOTION PASSED. MOVED BY BILL LOE AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO ADJOURN. MOTION PASSED — Meeting adjourned at 10:02 p.m. Planning and Zoning Assistant Date Planning Commission Minutes March 9, 2004 12