HomeMy Public PortalAbout03-12-2002PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES - MARCH 12, 2002
PRESENT: RON JOHNSON, RANDY BRINKMAN, LENNY LEUER, ELIZABETH
WEIR, MARY VERBICK. TOM SUPEL, SHARON JOHNSON AND DICK
PICARD. JERRY BROST ARRIVED AT 7:19 P.M. ALSO PRESENT
PLANNING AND ZONING ADMINISTRATOR LOREN KOHNEN, CITY
ENGINEER TOM KELLOGG AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT
SANDIE LARSON.
Chairperson Lenny Leuer called the meeting to order at 7:01 p.m.
1. ADKINS ASSOCIATES, INC. FOR QWEST - 3585 PINTO DRIVE - SITE PLAN
REVIEW AND CONCEPT PLAN FOR VARIANCE AND BUILDING ADDITION
Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission and put up overheads. Loren said
items to be discussed should include buffers, screening and landscaping. He said that the
screening shown for the generator is metal and he does not know if that would meet our
ordinance.
Mike Ostlie, Adkins Associates, representing Qwest, had colored photos of the site that he
shared with and explained to the planning commission. He said that the screening (enclosure)
for the generator is sheet metal.
Kim Piekarski, 3575 Pinto Drive, said she is the residential house just south of the Qwest
building. She said they are concerned with the screening of the generator (for sound) and asked
if there will be more lighting on the site.
M. Ostlie said that the new generator will be quieter and the new lighting will be shoe box style
and the light will not go off site.
Tom Supel asked Kim how often the generator went off and long it stayed on.
K. Piekarski said it goes off about once a month in the winter and maybe more often in the
summer when there is more power failures. On average the generator would stay on about 1-2
hours.
M. Ostlie said they do test the generator twice a month and it stays on for about'/2 hour. When it
does go on due to a power failure, it stays on until the power is restored.
T. Supel asked if the new quieter generator was an additional generator or a replacement.
M. Ostlie said it is a replacement.
T. Supel asked if there were any alternatives to the sheet metal.
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M. Ostlie said there are pre -cast panels that could be hung in front of the enclosure.
L. Kohnen said concrete or brick absorbs sound well.
M. Ostlie said these are pieces that are hung from steel posts.
L. Kohnen showed the landscape plan for screening. He said that berming would lose trees.
Loren also said that the concrete wall around the generator enclosure should go around the
corner - he showed on the overhead what he meant.
Dick Picard asked if they were using the same driveway.
M. Ostlie said yes.
D. Picard asked if any trees would be removed.
M. Ostlie said some shrubs in the front, but they would be replaced.
L. Kohnen said a maple in the NW corner will go. Loren said that more parking stalls are
needed, at least four. He said the plan will also have to show how the water is handled with the
additional hardcover.
M. Ostlie said that they usually talk with the watershed district and wondered why he had to deal
with the city and the city engineer. He said there is the watershed district and Hennepin county
and wondered who is in charge.
L. Kohnen said that the city has to approve your design. He said both Elm Creek Watershed and
the city have to approve.
Tom Kellogg said to Mike that he needs to take care of the water on his site, that the water going
off site cannot increase. He said the city needs to see how you will address it.
Randy Brinkman said how about berming the south and west side with soil and plant trees on it -
this would allow more ground surface for the water
M. Ostlie said that the generator enclosure is about 12' high.
D. Picard asked if there would by any equipment outside.
M. Ostlie said just the generator and some mechanical equipment.
D. Picard asked about the dumpster that was there.
M. Ostlie said that it would be in an enclosure.
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T. Supel asked Loren if we should expand on the variance.
L. Kohnen said that the setback of the current building is 50' and now 75' is required. He said
they are adding on to the building and the conditional use permit and variance can be handled at
the same time.
Sharon Johnson said that in one of the memo's it states this is an `unmanned' building, but there
were cars there.
M. Ostlie said they could be installing equipment, service men, etc.
K. Piekarski said there is an average of 2 cars/trucks per day. She said in reference to the berm,
how far east would it go if required.
L. Kohnen said we could ask for it to be all the way to the front of the building. He said we
need to work with the applicant on the wall/berm. Loren said there would be no action tonight,
that this is just a review of the proposed addition.
Lenny Leuer asked Mike if there was sewer and water in the building and what type the
generator would be, reciprocal or turbine.
M. Ostlie said yes there was sewer and water in the building and the new generator would be
diesel.
L. Leuer asked what kind of batteries were in the building and how they were protected.
M. Ostlie said they were wet call and there is less than 100 gallons so it falls under exemption
rule Chapter 64 - no containment is needed..
L. Leuer asked if there was a floor drain and Mike said in the bathroom.
L. Leuer asked Tom and Loren if they were worried about a floor drain for potential run-off into
the sanitary sewer line.
L. Kohnen said curbing around the batteries would be a good idea, but they are exempt.
M. Ostlie said he would protest the curbing - when the batteries need servicing they have to be
moved with a cart.
L. Kohnen said the floor drains could be removed, they are not required.
L. Leuer said the new generator looks like a corrugated shipping container.
M. Ostlie said it looks better than that - it is a uniclad panel with a straight seam.
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D. Picard said he does think that the Elm Creek Watershed needs to look at this plan because of
the proximity to the creek.
M. Ostlie said we are not in a floodplain. He said Elm Creek is not concerned as long as we do
not disturb more than acre of soil.
L. Kohnen said we do have to address it. He said the watershed districts want to start looking at
every building, even residential.
T. Kellogg said the city will be more restrictive than the conservation district.
L. Leuer asked about the building materials.
M. Ostlie said the addition would be insulated pre -cast panels with brick pattern in it - he pointed
out on the overhead.
L. Leuer asked if this was acceptable in the UC zone and Loren said yes - 20% has to be brick
and this would meet that.
M. Ostlie said he wanted to stick to earth tone colors.
There was further discussion on screening vs. berming.
S. Johnson asked if the hanging concrete panels for the screening could look like the building
with brick.
M. Ostlie said they could do that.
The consensus was screening instead of berming
Mary Verbick said she would like to see as many trees saved as possible.
L. Kohnen said he would like to see some spruce trees added in front of where the generator is.
L. Leuer asked Mike if he had any questions.
L. Kohnen told Mike to call and make an appointment to see him on Friday.
M. Ostlie said he would have his civil engineer talk to Tom Kellogg.
The public hearing was left open for the April planning commission meeting.
2. GRAMERCY CORPORATION - 5022 COUNTY ROAD 101 - CONCEPT
REVIEW FOR SENIOR COOPERATIVE
Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission.
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Lou Stocco, executive vice-president, Gramercy Corporation, handed out an up to date set of
plans to the planning commission. Lou explained that this would be a cooperative form of home
ownership for those 55+ years of age. The homeowner would be in control of their property by
buying a share of stock in the cooperative. He stated that the IRS and the State of Minnesota
recognize this as property ownership. Each owner pays their full real estate taxes. Lou said that
Michael St. Martin, civil engineer and Bob Close, landscape architect were also here tonight.
Lou stated that they will do all of what the fire department requires.
Michael St. Martin, civil engineer from Loucks Associates, explained the site, what it is currently
and what they are proposing. He explained the berming, the driveways, the walking paths stating
that there would be 107 units in the building.
Tom Supel asked if all parking was underground.
M. St. Martin said yes, for the residents. Guest parking is all outside. Mike touched on the
grading, ponds, utilities, etc.
Sharon Johnson asked if the 101 entrance was right in -right out and Mike said yes.
T. Supel asked why both of the Cudd accesses were not being used instead of 101.
M. St. Martin said partially for some relief for the Cudd development and for health and safety
they did not want all of the co-op traffic going thru the Cudd development.
Mary Verbick said there was concern about stacking when they were talking to Cudd.
T. Supel said he is concerned with the 101 access and safety. He said people will turn left even
if they are not supposed to.
Bob Leistikow, Charles Cudd Company, said the county had approved the 101 entrance with the
right in -right out.
T. Supel said that we have to give a lot of weight to Hennepin County as they are the traffic
experts.
M. St. Martin said that with the 101 work, Clydesdale will be realigned and will match our road
and also 101 will have a flatter grade.
Tom Kellogg said that he and Jim Dillman did meet with Hennepin County and this 101 entrance
is acceptable to them and they will incorporate it into their plans.
L. Stocco said that all roads will be built to city specifications. He said they will keep control of
the road on the west side until it has to be continued for access for the homes to the south east,
then it will become a city road. Lou said the building will be 3 stories, wood frame, concrete
underground parking and the building will have a Victorian feel to it. The building will consist
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of 107 units; 12 - 3 bedroom and 95 - 2 bedroom. He said that a 3 story building uses less land
so there is room for more green space. He showed a preliminary landscape plan with some
berming on the Cudd side. There will be a walking path, natural grasses and all stairwells will be
attached to a path in case of fire. There will also be some berming to the south. Light standards
will be 15' with all light focused down.
B. Leistikow said that he is in favor of this concept plan, but his concern is the proximity of their
road adjacent to their development and also the wetlands. He also thought that a little more brick
with the lap siding would be good.
L. Stocco said that the exterior is a hardy siding that is 90% concrete and if it is painted has a 25
year warranty. Lou said that all units will have a balcony and the ground floor unit balconies are
about 3 feet off the ground.
Howard Guest, 62 Highway 55, asked if there was a timetable for the 55 access issues for the
homes south of this project.
L. Kohnen said that this is a MnDOT issue.
H. Guest said that the 3 homes south of the project have sewer but not water and wondered if
they could have water or when they would have water.
T. Kellogg said it could be coordinated, but the question is cost. He said it is a council decision
on who pays for it.
H. Guest said he is just looking at getting it to the property lines so it is there when they want to
hook up.
T. Kellogg said it is possible, details would need to be worked out.
Julius Dorweiler, 5022 County Road 101, talked of the driveway off of 101 and said that at a city
council meeting, the location of the driveway was conditioned on the 101 plan and was
designated a right in -right out and should be a moot point now.
L. Stocco said that the units would start at about $175,000 and go to just under $300,000. He said
that 10 units would be affordable.
Elizabeth Weir asked if they would be affordable the lst time they are sold, or would they stay
that way in future sales.
L. Stocco said that once they are affordable they will stay that way. He said we will send the
plan to the Met Council when we establish which ones are affordable and they in return will send
the City a letter giving them credit for so many affordable units.
D. Picard asked about signs and size of trees.
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L. Stocco pointed out on the overhead where sign would probably be and said trees would be 6',
21/.." in diameter.
L. Kohnen said that the entire building would be sprinkled.
L. Stocco said including decks and garage.
L. Kohnen asked if 3'-4' of the foundation was exposed what the material would be.
L. Stocco said what is above ground would be rock -faced block.
Brandon Guest, Hamel Fire Chief, said that he had spent several hours going over these plans
and he is very impressed with what is included. He said this is the biggest plan he has reviewed
and with the occupancy being for those 55+ it brings a special set of issues. He said even with
all the fire protection, fires do happen. He said with this height building they would need aerials.
He said this was a very responsible submittal and he looks forward to working with Gramercy.
Lenny Leuer said given the height of the building what is the water pressure.
T. Kellogg said he did not know, he could not answer that without a more detailed study. He
said flow studies and summer sprinkling all needs to be put into consideration. Tom stated that
Medina does not have a master water plan.
L. Leuer asked Lou if they were willing to use booster pumps if the pressure was low on the 3rd
floor and Lou said yes.
T. Supel asked if this 55' height was measured differently than we usually measure.
L. Kohnen said this is the complete height, not the mean height like we measure homes by.
L. Stocco said they would have a complete set of landscape plans at the next meeting.
L. Leuer asked about the street plan. He wondered why the hammerhead street from Cudd will
not hook up to this development.
T. Kellogg said that Cudd had done a transportation study and one recommendation was that
there eventually be a road that connects to Plymouth from the golf course and that one condition
be that there be two roads to the south line. The same transportation engineer that did that study
is comfortable with what Gramercy is showing and that the one road ( Cudd road) they chose to
use is the best choice and coupled with the right in -right out onto 101 is adequate for traffic.
L. Leuer said that the proposed future road to the south has quite an elevation by one of the
houses. He asked how they proposed to deal with the retaining wall.
T. Kellogg said that we have not looked at it closely.
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L. Leuer asked about the accesses to the 3 houses on 55.
T. Kellogg said that the county does not have jurisdiction, the state does and the state will not
close the access because of the 101 project. He said when and if MnDOT proposes to close the
access, they have to provide an alternate access.
L. Leuer said this is planned to be a 3 story building and he wondered about the elevation of the
topography in relation to Holiday. He wondered if any site views had been prepared and Loren
said no. Lenny requested site views from 101 and 55 and at 55 at the Plymouth border entering
Medina. Lenny then asked Mike St. Martin if the berms were fill or cut.
M. St. Martin explained. He said the berms would be sloped and have slight fill on the SE
corner.
L. Leuer asked if there would be less run off to the houses to the south than now and Mike said
yes.
S. Johnson asked if when they returned to the planning commission if there would be complete
plans and Lou said yes.
Randy Brinkman asked about the shingles.
L. Stocco said they would be heavy shingles that look like shakes.
L. Kohnen said the details would have to be provided at the next planning commission meeting
and examples.
The public hearing was left open.
The planning commission recommends that this concept plan go to the city council with the
following concerns and requirements:
V Detailed plans to be provided:
Landscape, site, site views, building and building materials, signage
Water run-off
Roads - 101 access
Elevation in relation to Holiday
V Landscaping required for the north side of the north road coming into the development
adjacent to the Cudd development
V Traffic thru the Cudd development, especially construction traffic should be addressed
Item #3 was moved to after #4
4. RE -PLAT OF PROPERTIES SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 55 AT WILLOW DRIVE -
PUBLIC HEARING
Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission and put up an overhead of the plat.
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Tom Kellogg explained this re -plat
Ann Jackson, Rockler CEO, said they are o.k. with this. She said they had been talking with
Tom, Ron Batty and Loren Kohnen. She said they will probably be adding on in a few years and
this will be o.k. with the re -plat.
Dick Picard asked again why this was being done.
T. Kellogg said because of the 55 and Willow signal project Willow, south of 55, will be moved
to the west and this will take some of the Rockler property and in exchange the triangular parcel
owned by the city that is located east of QX will become part of the Rockler property.
Mary Verbick said the main focus is safety.
D. Picard asked how far to the west Willow will be moved.
T. Kellogg said about 40'.
D. Picard asked about water lines.
T. Kellogg said they are within the ROW and will stay that way. Tom explained that the private
road going into Temroc and Rockler will shift to the south some and become public ending with
a cul de sac. The portion that is removed will be resodded.
A. Jackson asked on whose land the turnaround will be.
T. Kellogg said Temroc's.
Lenny Leuer said the building is not shown and wondered about setbacks.
L. Kohnen said that all setbacks will be met. He discussed the QX access.
T. Kellogg said in a perfect world the 55 access would go away and QX would have an easment
to the road. He said MnDOT will pay an additional $100,000 for the signal project if the QX
access is closed. He said they will have a meeting with MnDOT next week.
The public hearing was closed.
MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY MARY VERBICK TO
RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT OF ROCKLER
ADDITION.
MOTION PASSED.
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#3 WALTER G. ANDERSON - 4535 WILLOW DRIVE - SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR
BUILDING EXPANSION - PUBLIC HEARING
Loren Kohnen read his memo and stated that no action was required on this item, it was a review
prior to their full application at the next planning commission meeting. He put up overheads of
the site and plan. He said some items for discussion are: 1 - screening of loading docks (the I.P.
zoning says they are to be screened as far as practical) 2 - look at the screening of the existing
docks and 3 - exterior building materials.
Pat Giordana, BDH & Young Space Design, architect for W.G. Anderson, said the proposed
addition is 26,000 square feet and the existing building is 150,000 square feet. He said their plan
meets the impervious surface requirements. Pat said 129 parking spaces are required and they
have planned 139 and could easily add 20-25 more in the paved area. The building is pre -cast
concrete and the front office is brick with the paint on the building gives the building
modulation. The new addition will: 1 - be painted to match the brick color and will be broke up
with paint and design; 2 - they will increase the landscaping (existing landscaping exceeds the
ordinance); 3 - there will be canopies over the dock area and 4 - there is the business logo in the
upper corner of the building. He mentioned the screening in the back that Loren referred to. He
said the existing landscaping on Willow screens the building from Willow and they will add
landscaping along the building on that side. He said the civil engineer will address the wetland
mitigation.
Anthony Pini, VanSickle, Allen & Associates, civil engineer for Walter G. Anderson, put up an
overhead and explained the existing wetland. He said the pond to the south will remain. The
new wetland will be constructed to the west along 55. He said the site is in 2 watershed districts.
A pond will be designed for the run off from the new addition. He said they have applied to
MnDOT for grading in the 55 ROW for their wetland work. He discussed the relocation of the
fire lane and pointed it out on the overhead. He said the water main associated with the existing
fire lane and the 2 hydrants will be relocated to the west.
L. Kohnen said that exterior building requirement is 20% brick, glass, etc.. He read the ordinance
P. Giordana said that the brick in the front and the metal band around the building is about 21%.
A. Pini stated that the realignment of Willow Drive north of 55 will require that the city do some
wetland mitigation and we are incorporating that in our mitigation to the west of our building.
He said the proposed mitigation appears to be acceptable to the city.
A. Pini pointed out the new driveway for access to the loading docks.
L. Kohnen pointed out the new addition and stated that a variance will be required for the
setback on the north property line.
Dick Picard asked about the 2nd paragraph in Tom Kellogg's letter of 2/22. Is the city doing the
work.
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T. Kellogg said the city will participate as outlined in the letter. W.G. Anderson is supplying the
area for the wetland mitigation and the city will help with the muck excavation and
upland/wetland seeding at the mitigation site. Tom said this is a separate issue from the building
expansion. He said the city would incur costs for the required mitigation for the Willow Drive
re -alignment and this includes what W. G. has to mitigate and what the city has to mitigate.
Marc Anderson said what Bonestroo is proposing is about $23,000 in cost. He said he wanted to
go on record that he is not buying into this 100%. He said he is giving up 1.4 acres of land and
in turn we are helping to take care of the city's mitigation. He said he would like to see a little
more help, be it moving dirt, etc. He said when this is all done it will look dynamite.
There was further discussion of the wetland mitigation.
Tom Supel said it seems strange to be using the land of the neighbor to the north for the fire lane.
M. Anderson said that we talk to Twinco all the time and they have no problem with this.
T. Supel said it should be formalized - it is a loose end to tighten up. Someday there may be
different people involved. Tom questioned that the trees along Willow protect the building. He
said it seems to him that the loading docks are quite visible and violates the spirit of the current
ordinance.
L. Leuer said this is the existing part of the building and Tom said we should recognize that.
Sharon Johnson asked if there was a time frame for developing the property to the SW.
M. Anderson said no, it is strictly business driven.
Lenny Leuer said there are two lots and we have to be careful to keep them separate.
M. Anderson said that if we ever sell the business, it will be more marketable with the additional
land.
L. Leuer asked about hardcover.
A. Pini said that with the addition the green space is 50.1%.
L. Leuer asked if the emergency access was gated or open or will it be a truck short cut.
M. Anderson said that trucks cannot go that way and if we need a gate, we will put one in.
L. Leuer asked who did the snow plowing and Marc said they did.
There was discussion about the road on the north and what the requirements were for a private
road, 24' or 20'. Loren said there is only one user, it is a driveway.
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L. Leuer wanted to know if the dirt balances had been figured out.
T. Kellogg said there would be approximately 15,000 cubic yards in the berm. He thought Jim
Dillman had sources that could use black dirt.
L. Leuer asked what the access would be for dirt moving and Tom said that had not been
established. Lenny asked about the roof top equipment. He said he remembers back in the early
days and what was on top and how the sound carried. Lenny said he did not see fenestration and
modulation on the new addition and wondered if there were any openings, windows, etc. or is it
solid.
P. Giordana said that yes it is solid and the painting will match the existing.
L. Leuer asked if there would be a wing wall for the docks.
M. Anderson said it is a courtyard design.
L. Leuer asked if any trees would be impacted.
P. Giordana identified the trees on the landscape plan and said the majority of trees are not
considered significant according to the ordinance.
L. Kohnen said he would suggest 8' spruce or a wing wall in the NW area.
P. Giordana said additional trees or move some of those we show.
L. Kohnen said additional, in this screening, not part of landscaping.
P. Giordana said according to the ordinance they can be counted.
L. Kohnen said they will have to be shown on a new landscape plan.
Sharon Johnson said she is wondering if the addition has to line up with the existing building or
should we ask them to put the addition somewhere else so that a variance would not be requried.
Jerry Brost stated that they had said the addition is needed where shown because of how their
product is moved thru the building.
L. Kohnen said they will have to answer why they need the addition there and what the hardship
its.
S. Johnson said she is not comfortable with this, but felt she had to ask.
Greg Michael questioned #2 in Tom Kellogg's letter of 2/21 and what the purpose of the
ROW was on the west parcel.
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T. Kellogg explained that it was for access for future expansion of the properties to the west.
There was discussion of having a cul de sac instead of ROW going all the way down to 55.
T. Supel said he agrees with a cul de sac.
G. Michael also questioned #3 - utilities - 6" to 8" and stub to the west property. He asked if
that couldn't be done when the property develops
T. Kellogg explained his reasoning, easier and less expensive to do it now.
There was some further discussion on sewer service.
The public hearing will remain open for the next planning commission meeting.
5. LOCH DEVELOPMENT - LOT 2, BLOCK 2, COVEY RUN - VARIANCE FOR
SEPTIC TO WETLAND
MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO TABLE THIS
APPLICATION UNTIL FURTHER INFORMATION IS RECEIVED, AS REQUESTED BY
THE APPLICANT.
MOTION PASSED.
6. DISCUSSION OF PLANNING COMMISSION TRAINING GUIDE
Sharon Johnson said there were just a few holes to be filled in and then she will be ready to have
a draft copy to pass out.
7. MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 12, 2002
Page 2 - F. Prodahl - change sentence to read: - - fence in the dark area shown on the map - - -
P. Robinson- change on to one
Page 3 - Anthony Patterson - change aid to said
Lenny Leuer - change as to was
Randy Brinkman - change wonder to wander
MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY SHARON JOHNSON TO ACCEPT
THE MINUTES AS CORRECTED.
MOTION PASSED.
8. SET SPECIAL MEETING
A special meeting with the Agriculture Task Force, City Council and Planning Commission was
set for Monday April 8, 2002 at 6:30 p.m.
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9. BUILDING MATERIAL DISCUSSION
Loren Kohnen said that a gentleman wanted the planning commission and city council to
approve the use of EFIS - DRIVEIT. Loren said at the last city council meeting, the council did
not want to consider it.
10. APPOINTMENT OF CHAIR AND VICE -CHAIR FOR 2002
Lenny Leuer opened the floor for nominations for chairperson
Sharon Johnson nominated Elizabeth Weir and Randy Brinkman seconded that nomination.
Tom Supel nominated Dick Picard and Ron Johnson seconded the nomination.
Nominations were closed.
Tom Supel withdrew his nomination for Dick Picard
Nominations were opened for vice -chairperson.
Tom Supel nominated Dick Picard and Ron Johnson seconded the nomination.
Nominations were closed.
Elizabeth Weir was voted chairperson for 2002 with a unanimous vote.
Dick Picard was voted vice -chairperson for 2002 with a unanimous vote.
Jerry Brost said he would like to officially thank Lenny for his term of chairperson.
MOVED BY JERRY BROST AND SECONDED BY SHARON JOHNSON TO ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 11 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
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