HomeMy Public PortalAbout19970123SCMeeting1
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1997- 01 -23. Special Called Council Meeting
Mayor Pro Tem Mariann Wildi called the meeting to order with
the following members of Council present: Ed Merves, Jack
Youmans, William Remeta, Michael A. Hosti, and Mallory Pearce.
Mayor Pro Tem Wildi read a statement from Mayor Parker explaining
the reasons he was not present at the meeting. (copy attached and
becomes part of these minutes)
Reverend Lee Bennett gave the invocation followed by the
Pledge of Allegiance.
Mr. Sprague Exley gave a short statement from the Southend
Neighborhood Association thanking Council for allowing the two
week delay in order for Hussey, Gay, Bell & DeYoung Engineers to
test the new site for suitability. Mr. Ben Gay said that Lot 18,
with frontage on Lovell Avenue, was analyzed as a possible water
storage tank site, with the following results: the soil boring
has a weak profile, the elevation is 12 feet mean sea level,
there is a 12" water line on the east side, the pile type would
change, some pluses and minuses. On the plus side the land is 3
1/2 feet higher, so very little fill would be needed, the site is
in a commercial zoning district, would not have to cut the
pavement. The minuses are the foundation would cost more, there
would be less free movement because the constractors would have
to work from the front only. The additional cost estimate for the
Lovell Avenue site would be between $30,000 to $35,000. This
includes the engineering, but most is for foundation expenses.
Pearce stated that this site is further away from the sea. Mr.
Gay said that it meets the 100 year flood plain. Gay said that
19th Street /Butler Avenue site is 4 1/2 feet below the 100 year
flood plain and that Lovell Avenue is far superior. Mr. Gay
stated that there is wave action in the 19th Street area but that
the salt water spray is about the same. Youmans said that Mr.
Whelchel said that the foundation would withstand a hurricane
with winds of 150 MPH. Bill Lovett answered yes, a 150 miles per
hour wind and earthquake. Mr. Gay stated that the tank would be a
Zone 2 design. Remeta asked the engineers "What is best for
Tybee ?" Mr. Lovett said that the best is a tank at either end of
the 12 inch pipe you have, if the well and tank are located
together you only have water coming from one source. Mr. Ralph
Rawls asked how much closer to the ocean is the 19th street site.
Mr. Lovett said that the 19th Street site is one block from ocean
(about 400 to 500 feet) and that the Lovell site is west of
Butler Avenue (about 1,300 feet from the ocean). Mr. Sam Adams
said that he measured from the edge of the proposed 19th Street
site to the sea wall and that it is 200 feet. Wildi asked if any
additional pipe would be needed for the Lovell site. Mr. Lovett
answered no. Wildi asked about the well being located so close
and what effect would the pilings have on the well? Mr. Gay said
no effect, that they would be 35 to 40 feet from the well casing
and this has been discussed with the State Geologist. Ms. Katrina
Hughes asked what does zoning have to do with suitability of the
site? Mr. Gay said that zoning is always involved when
considering a site. Ms. Hughes asked what is the cost to relocate
the pipe? Mr. Gay said a savings of about $800. to $1,000. Mr.
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Dolvin Dunn thanked Council for permitting him to speak and tell
how he feels about the Lovell site. Mr. Dunn explained that he
has been on Tybee off and on for the past 60 years and would like
to see the tank located some other place than at his door. Mr.
Dunn stated that he owns 10 places in the Lovell Avenue area,
they are not fancy but good folks live in them. Mr. Dunn feels
the tank will affect the property values and is bitterly opposed.
Mr. Dunn said that he was called and offered $95,000 for my house
and that he had prayed tonight that the Lord would direct his
path and would appreciate any consideration he is shown. Mr.
Harold Heymen said that Tybee is a place of people. Mr. Heymen
said that his place was a real mess when he moved down year round
and that it took a year to clean it up, plus there were mostly
just summer residents then. Mr. Heymen stated that he does not
want a water tank at the 19th Street location. Ms. Sally Keller
said what she is hearing tonight is "not in my back yard ". Ms.
Keller stated that 18th Street and Chatham Avenue was a site
under consideration at one time. Ms. Keller said that she
understands that this water tank is necessary for the commercial
district. The 19th Street site is residential. Ms. Keller said
that no one has any idea what will happen after a storm and we
don't know when the 100 year storm will hit. Ms. Keller stated
she sympathizes with Mr. Dunn but that the 19th Street location
is too close to the ocean. Mr. Mike Wilson asked about the legs
of the tower. Mr. Gay said that it will not have legs, it is a
pedestal structure. Mr. Wilson said that there was a well with a
concrete cap in the corner of his yard by his garden, do the
engineers know about this well? Mr. Wilson stated that he has
lived there for over 4 years and if the tank is placed there on
Lovell he will have to move. Mr. Sanjay Patel, owner of the Best
Western motel, said he is highly opposed to the Lovell Avenue
site. He stated that tourism is the island's main industry and
the tank will in no way be beneficial for the commercial
district. If we lose the tourists then the City will lose
revenue. Mr. Patel asked what assurance can he be given that my
foundation footings will be safe. Mr. Gay answered that the area
will experience vibrations, but with no damage to the hotel. Mr.
Gay said that the contractor and foundation companies are liable
for any damage. Mr. Patel said that they are spending thousands
of dollars to renovate another section of the motel on Lovell and
that his property values will go down if the tank is placed on
Lovell. Mr. Rawls of 1313 Lovell said that tourism is about 95%
of Tybee's business, and most of that is in the summer months and
if the tank fell on a hotel full of tourists then the City would
be in very bad shape. Mr. Chris Simon agrees, but feels that the
City Managers' proposal should be investigated about repairing
the old tank. Pearce Reeves of Chatham Avenue said that the
question should be "What is best for Tybee?". He stated that when
Hurricane David hit Tybee that a storm surge went across his
mother's property where you are planning to put the tank. City
Manager Farmer read letters from Mrs. Irene Brown, Mrs. Janet
Cook and Harry Spirides opposing the Lovell Avenue site, and one
from John Hutton in favor of the Lovell Avenue location. Mr Sam
Adams gave a packet to each Councilmember (copy attached and
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becomes part of these minutes). Mr. Adams stated that the
engineer study shows the Lovell Street location as suitable, high
land, it is an A -8 on the Flood map, the site is in the
commercial district, we already meet the ISO for residential, and
this location would meet the ISO for commercial if placed at the
Lovell Avenue site. Mr. Adams stated that the unopened portion of
Butler was appraised at $71,000. and is not beach front property
because Chatham cuts it off before it reaches the dunes. The
valuation of the Lovell site is $109,000. add the soil sample
study and we will have $114,000. invested. Mr. Adams passed out
pictures of his foundation piers at his home. Mr Exley said that
he was named to a committee to study sites for the proposed new
water storage tank. The recommendations were to put it back on
2nd Street where it is located now. Thomas and Hutton said it
could go anywhere on the island because of the looping, no need
to place at the south end of the island. The second
recommendation was the City Park. Mr. Exley stated that the
committee tried to address "not in my backyard ". He said that
19th Street is in a V zone. Mr. Exley said that he feels that the
additional 30 to 35 thousand dollars is unreasonable to ask a
group to pay, but they are willing to pay a maximum of $35,000 if
two conditions are met tonight: 1. That Council vote tonight to
locate the tank at the Lovell Avenue site; 2. Simultaneously
transfer the Butler Avenue property to the Adams family. Ms.
Alice Martin stated that she is opposed to property swap of this
sort. Mrs. Woody Williams of 14th Street and 2nd Avenue stated
she does not know whether she is for or against the Lovell Avenue
site but the Lovell Avenue site is a high area now and with heavy
rains 14th Street is flooded. Mr. Gay said that there are no
plans to raise the land, so they do not anticipate any additional
water. Mr. Gay said that the tank could over flow. Mrs. Williams
said that the City has promised to do something about the
flooding in the area but never has done anything, Public Works
comes and puts up barricades, the over flow needs to be
addressed. Wildi asked how much better is one place to the other.
Lovett said about the same, maybe 2% difference. Wildi questioned
the park area. Lovett said anywhere you can tie into the 12 inch
line it will meet the ISO requirements, it is just better at end
of island. Remeta stated that it is a shame that people have come
so divided over what is best for Tybee. Remeta asked how much do
we lose by putting the tank in back of City Hall. Lovett answered
it is best to run a computer study model. Remeta asked Lovett
what is best for Tybee? Lovett answered as far south, Lovell
versus 19th Street /Butler not enough difference to matter. Merves
said he doesn't plan to vote for either one of the sites. Merves
said we could repair the old one or put the new one behind City
Hall. Merves asked if this would meet the ISO. Merves stated that
he is concerned about residents in area, has difficultly seeing
that Lovell Avenue site is better that 19th Street /Butler site.
Pearce said he does not object to park site. Youmans said to keep
in mind as elected officials we are supposed to get the best for
our citizens' money and that the engineers say the best place is
at the southend. This tank is for the future, go down and see the
development. Remeta said he would like to hear from the head of
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the Water Sewer Department. Mr. George Reese said the tank needs
to be at south end of island. Reese said that there is only one
well that is 6 inches and that we need extra storage, there is a
150 thousand gallon tank in Fort Screven, the island continues to
grow, we need storage for pressure. Mr. Reese said we need the
overhead storage for pressure in case of a fire, that if a fire
starts the fire truck can pump the well dry. Mr. Reese said that
we gotta have the storage. Pearce asked if the park area would
meet the ISO rating? Lovett answered yes. Pearce said he is
inclined to support Merves and put the tank in the park area. Mr.
Bill Sprague asked why Council would vote to put a tank in a
storm surge area and would like to have the engineers explain.
Lovett said it is not a large problem. Mr. Cam Adams told a joke
about a zebra going to heaven and meeting Saint Peter. Cam Adams
said he preferred the park area for the tank. Sam Adams said an
update on the Kentucky pipe simulation was paid for by members of
the committee and that the area between the fire station bay and
the school annex would work and meet the demand of ISO on Tybrisa
and the Strand. Mr. Adams said looping is the best method in
order to get water pressure. Mayor Pro Tem Wildi called for a
five minute break at 9 P.M.
Earl Schaffer of 9th Street stated that he does not care
where you put the tank, but how can you appropriate the citizens
monies and spend it on engineers to tell you the best place to
locate a storage tank and then ignore their recommendations?
Dwight Feemster, attorney for the Southend Neighborhood
Association, said that he lived on Tybee from 82 through 84 and
it is important that you preserve the quality of life for the
entire island. Thousands of dollars have been spent on putting
sand on the beaches. Everyone who has ever lived here loves the
island. Mr. Feemster feels that the Lovell Avenue site is the
best location. You have the duty to do what is adequate. You have
the duty to look at any site that is reasonable. Mr. Feemster
said what he is hearing is the desire to have the best. There
will be more building and higher taxes.
Pearce moved to place the water storage tank in the Memorial
Park area. Merves seconded. Youmans said that the park location
is not on the agenda for discussion. City Attorney Hughes stated
that a Public Hearing was held in the past and that the park
location was discussed and Youmans is correct that the park
location is not on the agenda. City Attorney Hughes suggested
that Council back up and list all possible sites and have an
advertized Public Hearing on the sites. City Attorney Hughes said
that the park location was rejected by the previous Council.
Hughes said again to list all potential sites at one time, that
does not mean that you can't vote on it because it is not on
agenda. Remeta said that the tank location has been voted on 6
different times, the old tank is about to fall down, table until
next meeting when the Mayor will be present, engineers have
stated that south end of island is the best location. Remeta
stated that behind City Hall is the least resistance. Remeta said
we all have to live here. Youmans said that for 4 1/2 years the
City has been paying engineers, they have made their
recommendation, we need to look to the future needs of the
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island, the bond issue was for a tank and we won't be able to see
about another tank until the bond issue is paid off. Wildi stated
that we are trying to do the best for the money. Youmans asked
that Mr. Farmer find out how much money has been spent on this
tank issue. Remeta seconded. Merves asked if it would matter if
Council awarded the bid and then decided the location. Farmer
said that it entails two events; 1. award bid; 2. Notice to
proceed, you can wait up to several weeks between the two events,
and you can do change orders, this could either cost you money
or save you money, depending on what the changes are. Pearce
asked if Memorial Park has been explored. Lovett answered no.
Farmer said that there are three categories of concern for making
these types of decisions: technical, economics, and political,
but if you were to rank the three into priority order they would
be political, political, political, with economics and technical
factors ranking 4th and 5th. Economics is the construction costs,
impact on property values, tourism and any money related impacts;
technical is the engineering; political is the peoples
preferences. Youmans said that the Memorial Park site is
sufficient for today's ISO rating, but that we need to look into
the future. People in the past did not worry about us in the
future. Farmer said that the engineers had said the inportant
variables were the height if the tank, the pipe sizes, and the
pipe lengths, and any site would do along the 12 inch pipe.
Youmans said the best case scenario for supplying water is to
have a tank at the end of the lines. Remeta said that for the
record he wanted it noted that he took offense to City Manger
Farmers' remark about political, political, political and that
Mr. Farmer needs to remember that the reason he is here is
because Council appointed him to the position. Lovett said that
the park area would serve normal growth for 20 years. Pearce said
that with EPD ruling on the water table issue it will effect
growth. MPC plan is to reduce water consumption. Hosti stated
that we need to look at safety aspect, the 2nd Street tank might
fall at any time, feels we should act but agrees to table
tonight. Pearce moved that the issue of the location of the water
tank be postponed until the February meeting so that a public
hearing could be advertised and held on the three possible sites
in question to be considered: park site location, the 19th
Street /Butler location and the Lovell Avenue location. Merves
withdrew his second on the first motion Pearce made concerning
locating water storage tank in Memorial Park. Remeta seconded the
motion made by Pearce because he feels the Mayor needs to be
here. Youmans asked if Memorial Park location had been soil
tested? Remeta said that Council has got to listen to the
engineers. Vote by Council to table until February meeting was 4
in favor (Merves, Remeta, Hosti, Pearce); 2 opposed (Youmans,
Wildi) .
Youmans asked that the engineers explain the bid process to
Council. Lovett said that the 19th Street /Butler Avenue site is a
firm fixed price. Council could award bid to the lowest bidder,
Council can act on change orders and issue a notice to proceed.
City Attorney Hughes said the purpose of bid is to protect the
public not the contractors. Council must make sure that the
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public monies are wisely spent. Hughes said that you have already
seen that the Lovell Avenue site is $35,000 higher, if you award
bid you are locked in and the change order could end up being a
big ticket item. Youmans moved to postpone awarding the bid until
we find out where to place the tank. Remeta seconded because he
wants the Mayor back in town when decision is made by Council.
Merves said he totally agrees with Youmans. Vote by Council was
unanimous.
City Attorney Hughes stated that every delay is costing more
money. Remeta said that the total bid process should be done
again. There are discrepancies, don't think we have been
comparing apples to apples and we might end up saving Tybee
Island money. Youmans moved to adjourn the meeting.
Mayor Pro Tem Mariann C. Wildi
South End Neighborhood Asso. Inc.
January 12, 1997
Sam and Mary Adams propose that they acquire an
alternative Water Tank site at Lovell Avenue and
approximately 14th Street which they will trade to the
City of Tybee for that real estate which consists of
all of the Butler Avenue right of way south of 19th
Street.
From preliminary discussions with the City of Tybee's
engineer, Hussy, Gay, Bell, and DeYoung, all
indications are that the Water Tank can be built at the
Ldvelland 14th Street site. Sam and Mary have committed
to spend up to $5,000 for Hussy, Gay, Bell, and DeYoung
to make this determination within the time extension
set by City Council.
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Positive Aspects of 14th and Lovell-
Higher Elevation above sea level.
As removed as you can get from salt water for storm and
erosion protection.
Located in the commercial district.
The commercial district is the main and most direct
beneficiary of the new Water Tank.
Tybee already meets residential ISO insurance
standards for fire insurance purposes.
The new Water Tank will allow Tybee to meet
commercial ISO insurance standards which should
benefit insurance rates in the commercial
district.
The new Water Tank will have a 250,000 gallon
capacity even though Tybee's engineer recommended
150,000 gallons.Our largest buildings are in the
commercial district. The plan to build overcapacity
only makes since if there is a plan to increase
development ,probably in the commercial district.
Therefore the new Water Tank should be in the
commercial district.
IIIButler Ave. south of 19th Street is a poor site for the proposed
Water Tank-
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200 feet from the seawall:
Vibrations caused by waves striking the sea wall produce
strong shock waves which transfer through the sand. These
shock waves can damage or destroy structures.
Little or no dune escarpment at 17th Street and the ocean and
severe ongoing erosion on the Back River pose a threat to the
Tank if located south of 19th Street.
The 19th Street site is very low in relation to sea level.
The 19th Street is purely residential.
A 19th Street Water Tank would have pressure available ONLY in a
northerly direction.
Valuation of the unopened right of way of Butler Avenue
south of 19th Street -
The unopened right of way of Butler Avenue at 19th
Street was appraised by Johnnie Ganem Appraisal Company
on January 24, 1996 (less than a year ago). The
appraisal sets the valuation at $71,000.
The unopened right of way is N.02 "beach front" property
because:
Chatham Avenue cuts off Butler Avenue just before
Butler gets to the beginning of the sand dune
escarpment. Accordingly, the southern end of the Butler
Avenue right of way forms a long angular point. The
Adams residence has a right of way across this angular
point because any sale of the Butler Avenue right of
way would "land lock" the Adams property.
A second Adams residence has a right of way across the
Butler right of way.
0 There is a stand of bay trees located on the long
angular point of the southern end of the Butler Avenue
right away. If the Adams acquire the property, they
will deed a preservation easement to a Nature Trust.
This will prevent any future development of the area
that the Bay trees cover.
It should be clear that we are not talking about "beach
front" property because:
1) The Butler Avenue right of way is cut off by the
Chatham Avenue right of way before Butler gets to the
beach.
2) There are potentially two rights of way across the
Butler Avenue right of way on the end which is close to
the beach.
3) A Nature Trust will have an easement on the stand
of bay trees.
4) The stand of bay trees is between the beach and
the remainder of the Butler Ave. right of way.
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Valuation of the Lovell Avenue site-
"'The Lovell Ave. site is available through trading real
estate. It will cost the Adams $109,000 to acquire
certain property in order to trade for the Lovell site.
The LoveltAve. site will be subdivided to separate the
commercial structures from the Tank site. The Tank site
has a small single story house on it which can be torn
down. We believe the City of Tybee has the necessary
personal and equipment to demolish the house very
inexpensively.
The total cost of our acquisition and engineering of
the Lovell Ave. Water Tank site will be $114,000 plus
closing and survey expenses.
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HUSSEY, GAY, BELL & DEYOUNG, INC.
January 10, 1997 CONSULTING ENGINEERS
Mr. Samuel B. Adams
43 Heron's Nest
Savannah, Georgia 31410
RE: ELEVATED STORAGE TANK
TYBEE ISLAND, GEORGIA
Dear Mr. Adams:
VIA FAX
We appreciate the opportunity to present this proposal. As you, Mr. Exley and I discussed we will
investigate the possibility of siting the new 250,000 gallon elevated storage tank at a site adjacent to
the City's well No. 3 at 14th and Lovell Streets.
Our investigation will include a topographic survey of the new site, a schematic layout, electrical and
hydraulic analyses and a soils investigation. We will also meet with Caldwell Tanks and/or their
subcontractors to get an estimate of the construction costs to build the tank on the 14th & Lovell
Street site. Estimate of costs will include construction costs and engineering fees for any redesign
necessary.
Our fee for this service will be on an hourly basis in accordance with our standard rate schedule, but
will not exceed $5,000 without your approval. Thank you for the opportunity to present this
proposal. We would be glad to use a signed copy as our Notice to Proceed.
If you have any questions. please call me or Ben Gay.
Sincerely,
WILLIAM H. LOVETT
Vice - President
WHL/di
cc: Sprague Exley
Ben Gay
Accepted By:
Date:
329 COMMERCIAL DRIVE* P.O. BOX 14247• SAVANNAH. GEORGIA 31416 -1247
(912) 354-4626* FAX: (912) 354-6754
ROY HUSSEY. P.E.
BENIAMIN E. GAY. P.E.
GUS H. BELL. P.E.
RICHARD B. DEYOUNG. P.E.
WILLIAM H LOVETT
THOMAS & HUTTON ENGINEERING CO.
3 OGLETHORPE PROFESSIONAL BOULEVARD
POST OFFICE BOX 14609
SAVANNAH, GEORGIA 31416 -1609
TELEPHONE (9121355 -5300
FAX (9121355 -7562
August 25. 1995
Tyhee - Southend Neighborhood Association
c/o F. Sprague Exley
Vice President. Distribution
Savannah Foods
Post Office Box 339
Savannah. GA 31402
RE: City of Tybee Island
Elevated Tank Location
Dear Sprague:
At your request .we have reviewed the two proposed elevated tank locations for the City of Tybee
Island in terms of potential construction costs. The two locations evaluated are adjacent to the school
property near sixth street in Memorial Park and along Nineteenth street south of Butler Avenue. As
indicated in our previous correspondence, the Nineteenth Street site as determined by the Federal
Emergency Management Agency Flood maps is located in Zone V9 (elev.17). This zone would require
that the tank be designed to withstand not only wind loading, but the effects of wind generated wave
loading as well. The school site is located in Zone A8 (elev. 12) as per the FEMA maps. This Zone does
not require structures to he designed to accommodate wave action.
increased construction costs can he anticipated locating the tank in a FEMA V Zone. Since wind
generated storm surge is a consideration when designing the tank foundation support system for any tank
structure. the lateral loads from wave loading must be included in the analysis. This usually results in a
larger or deeper footing for each pedestal. or the addition of support piling to resist the overturning load.
The pedestals also have to he analyzed with a lateral wave load in mind. which can have a considerable
effect in sizing the steel members. Also. any appurtenances associated with the tank structure such as
valve and electrode switch -gear equipment must be constructed at or above the base flood elevation on
structures able to resist storm surge loading. At the school site this elevation would be elevation 12 mean
sea level while this elevation would be 17 mean sea level for the Nineteenth Street site
These factors could drive the construction cost for the Nineteenth Street site from $5000 to
$10,000 more than the school site. If support piling is required at the Nineteenth Street and not at the
school, this cost could be even higher. Of course it should be stressed these costs are ballpark figures and
is Thomas & Hutton's opinion based on our past experience with other elevated tanks constructed in the
area as well as assumptions on soil and ground conditions at each site. A more detailed study to better
determine tank foundation and structure costs by examining the soils and ground elevations at each site
would yield more accurate construction costs estimates.
966 HOUSTON NORTHCUTT BOULEVARD • SUITE G • PO. BOX 1522 • MOUNT PLEASANT, S.C. 29465 • TELEPHONE 19031849.0200 • FAX 18031849.0203
In addition, we wish to address the question of why a recommendation was given by Thomas &
Hutton to locate the tank on the South end of Tybee Island in 1992. This recommendation was given with
the assumption that no improvements to the water distribution system were to be undertaken. This
assumption would necessitate the tank be located nearest the greatest anticipated fire flows on the Island.
Since this location would be the commercial district centered near Sixteenth Street and Butler Avenue, the
recommendation was given to locate the tank as near to that area as possible. In the last two years, the
City of Tybee Island has constructed numerous improvements to the water distribution system including
the installation of a new 12 inch water main along Lovell Street from U.S. 80 to Eighteenth Street. These
improvements allow the tank to be located almost anywhere south of the existing tank at Second Street
and Butler Avenue and still be able to provide 1500 GPM fi_reA ws in the commercial district.
Please let us know if we may provide additional information or answer any questions.
Sincerely,
HOMAS & UTTON ENG G, CO.
es J. Colli .
JJG
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