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HomeMy Public PortalAbout19970123SCMeeting1 1 1 1997- 01 -23. Special Called Council Meeting Mayor Pro Tem Mariann Wildi called the meeting to order with the following members of Council present: Ed Merves, Jack Youmans, William Remeta, Michael A. Hosti, and Mallory Pearce. Mayor Pro Tem Wildi read a statement from Mayor Parker explaining the reasons he was not present at the meeting. (copy attached and becomes part of these minutes) Reverend Lee Bennett gave the invocation followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. Mr. Sprague Exley gave a short statement from the Southend Neighborhood Association thanking Council for allowing the two week delay in order for Hussey, Gay, Bell & DeYoung Engineers to test the new site for suitability. Mr. Ben Gay said that Lot 18, with frontage on Lovell Avenue, was analyzed as a possible water storage tank site, with the following results: the soil boring has a weak profile, the elevation is 12 feet mean sea level, there is a 12" water line on the east side, the pile type would change, some pluses and minuses. On the plus side the land is 3 1/2 feet higher, so very little fill would be needed, the site is in a commercial zoning district, would not have to cut the pavement. The minuses are the foundation would cost more, there would be less free movement because the constractors would have to work from the front only. The additional cost estimate for the Lovell Avenue site would be between $30,000 to $35,000. This includes the engineering, but most is for foundation expenses. Pearce stated that this site is further away from the sea. Mr. Gay said that it meets the 100 year flood plain. Gay said that 19th Street /Butler Avenue site is 4 1/2 feet below the 100 year flood plain and that Lovell Avenue is far superior. Mr. Gay stated that there is wave action in the 19th Street area but that the salt water spray is about the same. Youmans said that Mr. Whelchel said that the foundation would withstand a hurricane with winds of 150 MPH. Bill Lovett answered yes, a 150 miles per hour wind and earthquake. Mr. Gay stated that the tank would be a Zone 2 design. Remeta asked the engineers "What is best for Tybee ?" Mr. Lovett said that the best is a tank at either end of the 12 inch pipe you have, if the well and tank are located together you only have water coming from one source. Mr. Ralph Rawls asked how much closer to the ocean is the 19th street site. Mr. Lovett said that the 19th Street site is one block from ocean (about 400 to 500 feet) and that the Lovell site is west of Butler Avenue (about 1,300 feet from the ocean). Mr. Sam Adams said that he measured from the edge of the proposed 19th Street site to the sea wall and that it is 200 feet. Wildi asked if any additional pipe would be needed for the Lovell site. Mr. Lovett answered no. Wildi asked about the well being located so close and what effect would the pilings have on the well? Mr. Gay said no effect, that they would be 35 to 40 feet from the well casing and this has been discussed with the State Geologist. Ms. Katrina Hughes asked what does zoning have to do with suitability of the site? Mr. Gay said that zoning is always involved when considering a site. Ms. Hughes asked what is the cost to relocate the pipe? Mr. Gay said a savings of about $800. to $1,000. Mr. 1 1 1 Dolvin Dunn thanked Council for permitting him to speak and tell how he feels about the Lovell site. Mr. Dunn explained that he has been on Tybee off and on for the past 60 years and would like to see the tank located some other place than at his door. Mr. Dunn stated that he owns 10 places in the Lovell Avenue area, they are not fancy but good folks live in them. Mr. Dunn feels the tank will affect the property values and is bitterly opposed. Mr. Dunn said that he was called and offered $95,000 for my house and that he had prayed tonight that the Lord would direct his path and would appreciate any consideration he is shown. Mr. Harold Heymen said that Tybee is a place of people. Mr. Heymen said that his place was a real mess when he moved down year round and that it took a year to clean it up, plus there were mostly just summer residents then. Mr. Heymen stated that he does not want a water tank at the 19th Street location. Ms. Sally Keller said what she is hearing tonight is "not in my back yard ". Ms. Keller stated that 18th Street and Chatham Avenue was a site under consideration at one time. Ms. Keller said that she understands that this water tank is necessary for the commercial district. The 19th Street site is residential. Ms. Keller said that no one has any idea what will happen after a storm and we don't know when the 100 year storm will hit. Ms. Keller stated she sympathizes with Mr. Dunn but that the 19th Street location is too close to the ocean. Mr. Mike Wilson asked about the legs of the tower. Mr. Gay said that it will not have legs, it is a pedestal structure. Mr. Wilson said that there was a well with a concrete cap in the corner of his yard by his garden, do the engineers know about this well? Mr. Wilson stated that he has lived there for over 4 years and if the tank is placed there on Lovell he will have to move. Mr. Sanjay Patel, owner of the Best Western motel, said he is highly opposed to the Lovell Avenue site. He stated that tourism is the island's main industry and the tank will in no way be beneficial for the commercial district. If we lose the tourists then the City will lose revenue. Mr. Patel asked what assurance can he be given that my foundation footings will be safe. Mr. Gay answered that the area will experience vibrations, but with no damage to the hotel. Mr. Gay said that the contractor and foundation companies are liable for any damage. Mr. Patel said that they are spending thousands of dollars to renovate another section of the motel on Lovell and that his property values will go down if the tank is placed on Lovell. Mr. Rawls of 1313 Lovell said that tourism is about 95% of Tybee's business, and most of that is in the summer months and if the tank fell on a hotel full of tourists then the City would be in very bad shape. Mr. Chris Simon agrees, but feels that the City Managers' proposal should be investigated about repairing the old tank. Pearce Reeves of Chatham Avenue said that the question should be "What is best for Tybee?". He stated that when Hurricane David hit Tybee that a storm surge went across his mother's property where you are planning to put the tank. City Manager Farmer read letters from Mrs. Irene Brown, Mrs. Janet Cook and Harry Spirides opposing the Lovell Avenue site, and one from John Hutton in favor of the Lovell Avenue location. Mr Sam Adams gave a packet to each Councilmember (copy attached and 1 1 1 becomes part of these minutes). Mr. Adams stated that the engineer study shows the Lovell Street location as suitable, high land, it is an A -8 on the Flood map, the site is in the commercial district, we already meet the ISO for residential, and this location would meet the ISO for commercial if placed at the Lovell Avenue site. Mr. Adams stated that the unopened portion of Butler was appraised at $71,000. and is not beach front property because Chatham cuts it off before it reaches the dunes. The valuation of the Lovell site is $109,000. add the soil sample study and we will have $114,000. invested. Mr. Adams passed out pictures of his foundation piers at his home. Mr Exley said that he was named to a committee to study sites for the proposed new water storage tank. The recommendations were to put it back on 2nd Street where it is located now. Thomas and Hutton said it could go anywhere on the island because of the looping, no need to place at the south end of the island. The second recommendation was the City Park. Mr. Exley stated that the committee tried to address "not in my backyard ". He said that 19th Street is in a V zone. Mr. Exley said that he feels that the additional 30 to 35 thousand dollars is unreasonable to ask a group to pay, but they are willing to pay a maximum of $35,000 if two conditions are met tonight: 1. That Council vote tonight to locate the tank at the Lovell Avenue site; 2. Simultaneously transfer the Butler Avenue property to the Adams family. Ms. Alice Martin stated that she is opposed to property swap of this sort. Mrs. Woody Williams of 14th Street and 2nd Avenue stated she does not know whether she is for or against the Lovell Avenue site but the Lovell Avenue site is a high area now and with heavy rains 14th Street is flooded. Mr. Gay said that there are no plans to raise the land, so they do not anticipate any additional water. Mr. Gay said that the tank could over flow. Mrs. Williams said that the City has promised to do something about the flooding in the area but never has done anything, Public Works comes and puts up barricades, the over flow needs to be addressed. Wildi asked how much better is one place to the other. Lovett said about the same, maybe 2% difference. Wildi questioned the park area. Lovett said anywhere you can tie into the 12 inch line it will meet the ISO requirements, it is just better at end of island. Remeta stated that it is a shame that people have come so divided over what is best for Tybee. Remeta asked how much do we lose by putting the tank in back of City Hall. Lovett answered it is best to run a computer study model. Remeta asked Lovett what is best for Tybee? Lovett answered as far south, Lovell versus 19th Street /Butler not enough difference to matter. Merves said he doesn't plan to vote for either one of the sites. Merves said we could repair the old one or put the new one behind City Hall. Merves asked if this would meet the ISO. Merves stated that he is concerned about residents in area, has difficultly seeing that Lovell Avenue site is better that 19th Street /Butler site. Pearce said he does not object to park site. Youmans said to keep in mind as elected officials we are supposed to get the best for our citizens' money and that the engineers say the best place is at the southend. This tank is for the future, go down and see the development. Remeta said he would like to hear from the head of 1 1 the Water Sewer Department. Mr. George Reese said the tank needs to be at south end of island. Reese said that there is only one well that is 6 inches and that we need extra storage, there is a 150 thousand gallon tank in Fort Screven, the island continues to grow, we need storage for pressure. Mr. Reese said we need the overhead storage for pressure in case of a fire, that if a fire starts the fire truck can pump the well dry. Mr. Reese said that we gotta have the storage. Pearce asked if the park area would meet the ISO rating? Lovett answered yes. Pearce said he is inclined to support Merves and put the tank in the park area. Mr. Bill Sprague asked why Council would vote to put a tank in a storm surge area and would like to have the engineers explain. Lovett said it is not a large problem. Mr. Cam Adams told a joke about a zebra going to heaven and meeting Saint Peter. Cam Adams said he preferred the park area for the tank. Sam Adams said an update on the Kentucky pipe simulation was paid for by members of the committee and that the area between the fire station bay and the school annex would work and meet the demand of ISO on Tybrisa and the Strand. Mr. Adams said looping is the best method in order to get water pressure. Mayor Pro Tem Wildi called for a five minute break at 9 P.M. Earl Schaffer of 9th Street stated that he does not care where you put the tank, but how can you appropriate the citizens monies and spend it on engineers to tell you the best place to locate a storage tank and then ignore their recommendations? Dwight Feemster, attorney for the Southend Neighborhood Association, said that he lived on Tybee from 82 through 84 and it is important that you preserve the quality of life for the entire island. Thousands of dollars have been spent on putting sand on the beaches. Everyone who has ever lived here loves the island. Mr. Feemster feels that the Lovell Avenue site is the best location. You have the duty to do what is adequate. You have the duty to look at any site that is reasonable. Mr. Feemster said what he is hearing is the desire to have the best. There will be more building and higher taxes. Pearce moved to place the water storage tank in the Memorial Park area. Merves seconded. Youmans said that the park location is not on the agenda for discussion. City Attorney Hughes stated that a Public Hearing was held in the past and that the park location was discussed and Youmans is correct that the park location is not on the agenda. City Attorney Hughes suggested that Council back up and list all possible sites and have an advertized Public Hearing on the sites. City Attorney Hughes said that the park location was rejected by the previous Council. Hughes said again to list all potential sites at one time, that does not mean that you can't vote on it because it is not on agenda. Remeta said that the tank location has been voted on 6 different times, the old tank is about to fall down, table until next meeting when the Mayor will be present, engineers have stated that south end of island is the best location. Remeta stated that behind City Hall is the least resistance. Remeta said we all have to live here. Youmans said that for 4 1/2 years the City has been paying engineers, they have made their recommendation, we need to look to the future needs of the 1 1 1 island, the bond issue was for a tank and we won't be able to see about another tank until the bond issue is paid off. Wildi stated that we are trying to do the best for the money. Youmans asked that Mr. Farmer find out how much money has been spent on this tank issue. Remeta seconded. Merves asked if it would matter if Council awarded the bid and then decided the location. Farmer said that it entails two events; 1. award bid; 2. Notice to proceed, you can wait up to several weeks between the two events, and you can do change orders, this could either cost you money or save you money, depending on what the changes are. Pearce asked if Memorial Park has been explored. Lovett answered no. Farmer said that there are three categories of concern for making these types of decisions: technical, economics, and political, but if you were to rank the three into priority order they would be political, political, political, with economics and technical factors ranking 4th and 5th. Economics is the construction costs, impact on property values, tourism and any money related impacts; technical is the engineering; political is the peoples preferences. Youmans said that the Memorial Park site is sufficient for today's ISO rating, but that we need to look into the future. People in the past did not worry about us in the future. Farmer said that the engineers had said the inportant variables were the height if the tank, the pipe sizes, and the pipe lengths, and any site would do along the 12 inch pipe. Youmans said the best case scenario for supplying water is to have a tank at the end of the lines. Remeta said that for the record he wanted it noted that he took offense to City Manger Farmers' remark about political, political, political and that Mr. Farmer needs to remember that the reason he is here is because Council appointed him to the position. Lovett said that the park area would serve normal growth for 20 years. Pearce said that with EPD ruling on the water table issue it will effect growth. MPC plan is to reduce water consumption. Hosti stated that we need to look at safety aspect, the 2nd Street tank might fall at any time, feels we should act but agrees to table tonight. Pearce moved that the issue of the location of the water tank be postponed until the February meeting so that a public hearing could be advertised and held on the three possible sites in question to be considered: park site location, the 19th Street /Butler location and the Lovell Avenue location. Merves withdrew his second on the first motion Pearce made concerning locating water storage tank in Memorial Park. Remeta seconded the motion made by Pearce because he feels the Mayor needs to be here. Youmans asked if Memorial Park location had been soil tested? Remeta said that Council has got to listen to the engineers. Vote by Council to table until February meeting was 4 in favor (Merves, Remeta, Hosti, Pearce); 2 opposed (Youmans, Wildi) . Youmans asked that the engineers explain the bid process to Council. Lovett said that the 19th Street /Butler Avenue site is a firm fixed price. Council could award bid to the lowest bidder, Council can act on change orders and issue a notice to proceed. City Attorney Hughes said the purpose of bid is to protect the public not the contractors. Council must make sure that the 1 1 public monies are wisely spent. Hughes said that you have already seen that the Lovell Avenue site is $35,000 higher, if you award bid you are locked in and the change order could end up being a big ticket item. Youmans moved to postpone awarding the bid until we find out where to place the tank. Remeta seconded because he wants the Mayor back in town when decision is made by Council. Merves said he totally agrees with Youmans. Vote by Council was unanimous. City Attorney Hughes stated that every delay is costing more money. Remeta said that the total bid process should be done again. There are discrepancies, don't think we have been comparing apples to apples and we might end up saving Tybee Island money. Youmans moved to adjourn the meeting. Mayor Pro Tem Mariann C. Wildi South End Neighborhood Asso. Inc. January 12, 1997 Sam and Mary Adams propose that they acquire an alternative Water Tank site at Lovell Avenue and approximately 14th Street which they will trade to the City of Tybee for that real estate which consists of all of the Butler Avenue right of way south of 19th Street. From preliminary discussions with the City of Tybee's engineer, Hussy, Gay, Bell, and DeYoung, all indications are that the Water Tank can be built at the Ldvelland 14th Street site. Sam and Mary have committed to spend up to $5,000 for Hussy, Gay, Bell, and DeYoung to make this determination within the time extension set by City Council. 1 1 1 Positive Aspects of 14th and Lovell- Higher Elevation above sea level. As removed as you can get from salt water for storm and erosion protection. Located in the commercial district. The commercial district is the main and most direct beneficiary of the new Water Tank. Tybee already meets residential ISO insurance standards for fire insurance purposes. The new Water Tank will allow Tybee to meet commercial ISO insurance standards which should benefit insurance rates in the commercial district. The new Water Tank will have a 250,000 gallon capacity even though Tybee's engineer recommended 150,000 gallons.Our largest buildings are in the commercial district. The plan to build overcapacity only makes since if there is a plan to increase development ,probably in the commercial district. Therefore the new Water Tank should be in the commercial district. IIIButler Ave. south of 19th Street is a poor site for the proposed Water Tank- 1 1 200 feet from the seawall: Vibrations caused by waves striking the sea wall produce strong shock waves which transfer through the sand. These shock waves can damage or destroy structures. Little or no dune escarpment at 17th Street and the ocean and severe ongoing erosion on the Back River pose a threat to the Tank if located south of 19th Street. The 19th Street site is very low in relation to sea level. The 19th Street is purely residential. A 19th Street Water Tank would have pressure available ONLY in a northerly direction. Valuation of the unopened right of way of Butler Avenue south of 19th Street - The unopened right of way of Butler Avenue at 19th Street was appraised by Johnnie Ganem Appraisal Company on January 24, 1996 (less than a year ago). The appraisal sets the valuation at $71,000. The unopened right of way is N.02 "beach front" property because: Chatham Avenue cuts off Butler Avenue just before Butler gets to the beginning of the sand dune escarpment. Accordingly, the southern end of the Butler Avenue right of way forms a long angular point. The Adams residence has a right of way across this angular point because any sale of the Butler Avenue right of way would "land lock" the Adams property. A second Adams residence has a right of way across the Butler right of way. 0 There is a stand of bay trees located on the long angular point of the southern end of the Butler Avenue right away. If the Adams acquire the property, they will deed a preservation easement to a Nature Trust. This will prevent any future development of the area that the Bay trees cover. It should be clear that we are not talking about "beach front" property because: 1) The Butler Avenue right of way is cut off by the Chatham Avenue right of way before Butler gets to the beach. 2) There are potentially two rights of way across the Butler Avenue right of way on the end which is close to the beach. 3) A Nature Trust will have an easement on the stand of bay trees. 4) The stand of bay trees is between the beach and the remainder of the Butler Ave. right of way. 0 Valuation of the Lovell Avenue site- "'The Lovell Ave. site is available through trading real estate. It will cost the Adams $109,000 to acquire certain property in order to trade for the Lovell site. The LoveltAve. site will be subdivided to separate the commercial structures from the Tank site. The Tank site has a small single story house on it which can be torn down. We believe the City of Tybee has the necessary personal and equipment to demolish the house very inexpensively. The total cost of our acquisition and engineering of the Lovell Ave. Water Tank site will be $114,000 plus closing and survey expenses. 1 1 1 1 HUSSEY, GAY, BELL & DEYOUNG, INC. January 10, 1997 CONSULTING ENGINEERS Mr. Samuel B. Adams 43 Heron's Nest Savannah, Georgia 31410 RE: ELEVATED STORAGE TANK TYBEE ISLAND, GEORGIA Dear Mr. Adams: VIA FAX We appreciate the opportunity to present this proposal. As you, Mr. Exley and I discussed we will investigate the possibility of siting the new 250,000 gallon elevated storage tank at a site adjacent to the City's well No. 3 at 14th and Lovell Streets. Our investigation will include a topographic survey of the new site, a schematic layout, electrical and hydraulic analyses and a soils investigation. We will also meet with Caldwell Tanks and/or their subcontractors to get an estimate of the construction costs to build the tank on the 14th & Lovell Street site. Estimate of costs will include construction costs and engineering fees for any redesign necessary. Our fee for this service will be on an hourly basis in accordance with our standard rate schedule, but will not exceed $5,000 without your approval. Thank you for the opportunity to present this proposal. We would be glad to use a signed copy as our Notice to Proceed. If you have any questions. please call me or Ben Gay. Sincerely, WILLIAM H. LOVETT Vice - President WHL/di cc: Sprague Exley Ben Gay Accepted By: Date: 329 COMMERCIAL DRIVE* P.O. BOX 14247• SAVANNAH. GEORGIA 31416 -1247 (912) 354-4626* FAX: (912) 354-6754 ROY HUSSEY. P.E. BENIAMIN E. GAY. P.E. GUS H. BELL. P.E. RICHARD B. DEYOUNG. P.E. WILLIAM H LOVETT THOMAS & HUTTON ENGINEERING CO. 3 OGLETHORPE PROFESSIONAL BOULEVARD POST OFFICE BOX 14609 SAVANNAH, GEORGIA 31416 -1609 TELEPHONE (9121355 -5300 FAX (9121355 -7562 August 25. 1995 Tyhee - Southend Neighborhood Association c/o F. Sprague Exley Vice President. Distribution Savannah Foods Post Office Box 339 Savannah. GA 31402 RE: City of Tybee Island Elevated Tank Location Dear Sprague: At your request .we have reviewed the two proposed elevated tank locations for the City of Tybee Island in terms of potential construction costs. The two locations evaluated are adjacent to the school property near sixth street in Memorial Park and along Nineteenth street south of Butler Avenue. As indicated in our previous correspondence, the Nineteenth Street site as determined by the Federal Emergency Management Agency Flood maps is located in Zone V9 (elev.17). This zone would require that the tank be designed to withstand not only wind loading, but the effects of wind generated wave loading as well. The school site is located in Zone A8 (elev. 12) as per the FEMA maps. This Zone does not require structures to he designed to accommodate wave action. increased construction costs can he anticipated locating the tank in a FEMA V Zone. Since wind generated storm surge is a consideration when designing the tank foundation support system for any tank structure. the lateral loads from wave loading must be included in the analysis. This usually results in a larger or deeper footing for each pedestal. or the addition of support piling to resist the overturning load. The pedestals also have to he analyzed with a lateral wave load in mind. which can have a considerable effect in sizing the steel members. Also. any appurtenances associated with the tank structure such as valve and electrode switch -gear equipment must be constructed at or above the base flood elevation on structures able to resist storm surge loading. At the school site this elevation would be elevation 12 mean sea level while this elevation would be 17 mean sea level for the Nineteenth Street site These factors could drive the construction cost for the Nineteenth Street site from $5000 to $10,000 more than the school site. If support piling is required at the Nineteenth Street and not at the school, this cost could be even higher. Of course it should be stressed these costs are ballpark figures and is Thomas & Hutton's opinion based on our past experience with other elevated tanks constructed in the area as well as assumptions on soil and ground conditions at each site. A more detailed study to better determine tank foundation and structure costs by examining the soils and ground elevations at each site would yield more accurate construction costs estimates. 966 HOUSTON NORTHCUTT BOULEVARD • SUITE G • PO. BOX 1522 • MOUNT PLEASANT, S.C. 29465 • TELEPHONE 19031849.0200 • FAX 18031849.0203 In addition, we wish to address the question of why a recommendation was given by Thomas & Hutton to locate the tank on the South end of Tybee Island in 1992. This recommendation was given with the assumption that no improvements to the water distribution system were to be undertaken. This assumption would necessitate the tank be located nearest the greatest anticipated fire flows on the Island. Since this location would be the commercial district centered near Sixteenth Street and Butler Avenue, the recommendation was given to locate the tank as near to that area as possible. In the last two years, the City of Tybee Island has constructed numerous improvements to the water distribution system including the installation of a new 12 inch water main along Lovell Street from U.S. 80 to Eighteenth Street. These improvements allow the tank to be located almost anywhere south of the existing tank at Second Street and Butler Avenue and still be able to provide 1500 GPM fi_reA ws in the commercial district. Please let us know if we may provide additional information or answer any questions. Sincerely, HOMAS & UTTON ENG G, CO. es J. Colli . JJG 1 1 1