HomeMy Public PortalAbout1986_11_19 387-1
MINUTES OF PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING DOWNTOWN PARKING NEEDS AND PROPOSED PARKING
STRUCTURE, NOVEMBER 19, 1986.
A public hearing was held by the Leesburg Town Council in the Council Chambers,
10 Loudoun Street, S.W. , Leesburg, Virginia at 7: 30 p.m. on November 19, 1984 pur-
suant to notice of same having been published in the Loudoun Times-Mirror on Novem-
ber 12, 1986, concerning Downtown Parking Needs and Proposed Parking Structure.
Present were: Mayor Robert E. Sevila, Councilmembers Charles A. Bos, Arl Curry,
Brian T. Kelley, Jerry S. Pelkey, John W. Tolbert, Jr. and Charles J. Williams;
also Town Manager Jeffrey H. Minor, Director of Finance Paul E. York and Assistant
Director of Engineering and Public Works Keith J. Kirschnick.
The meeting was called to order by Mayor Sevila - the invocation was given by
Mr. Tolbert and followed with the Salute to the Flag led by Councilmember Pelkey.
Mayor Sevila explained that a study of downtown parking needs and alternatives of
the town' s government to meet these needs has been done and recommendations made.
Town Manager Jeffrey H. Minor explained that a solution is being sought to meet
the town' s parking needs, with a report having been prepared by Wilbur Smith and
Associates, Richmond, Virginia. For several years the Council has considered and
the public has debated the various parking solutions for the town, including whether
or not we actually have a parking deficit and what such solutions might be - from
structured parking to surface parking and from no meters to.more meters. For the
last two years, Council has appropriated funds to a capital reserve account to
help establish funds to pay for some parking solution. They are attempting to find
a solution that meets the parking needs and one that is fiscally sound for the
government. He referred to the Ballinger and LaRock model that showed that a
parking garage could be put in this area and screened from the three blocks and
free up additional space for sale or lease to create additional retail or office
space (this would screen the parking facility) . Council has determined that we
need a new government center located in the historic district - they have not yet
decided on a parking solution, or if we even have a parking problem. This is the
purpose of the report from Wilbur Smith and of hearing comments tonight. Whatever
solution is decided, it is important to guarantee that the solution does reflect the
historic character of Leesburg. They have, therefore, solicited funds from the Nat-
ional Endowment for the Arts for a grant to help with the design competition, which
is a contest on a national level and where you try to find the best architects avail-
able (on a National level) to submit a conceptual drawing. The NEA has chosen to
fund Leesburg' s request 100 percent - this will not only provide funds - it vali-
dates the challenge of trying to fit in a new building and some type of parking
facility within the constraints of the Historic District. He introduced Tom Flynn
of Wilbur Smith and Associates.
Mr. Flynn gave an in-depth report of their research for this project, which en-
compassed the historic district and the Market Station area. It was determined that
the parking in the Market Station area meets the demand. The primary demand for
parking is in this centrally located block. They asked those parking in the lot
and on the street the purpose of their trip downtown and how long they expected to
be parked there; also, it was found that about one-third of those people parked on
the street were employees in the downtown area. They found that there is a total
shortage of about 140 parking spaces in the downtown or "core" area. By 1991, the
shortfall could be about 310 spaces and, by 1996, it could be over 437-: This
shortage will become more severe unless additional parking is provided. Alter-
natives to meet this shortfall are a parking garage in this location, a surface
lot where the existing Public Works facility is located on Liberty Street and a
lot on the other side of Wirt Street where Community Oil: is. One basic option
would be a parking structure at this location sufficiently large enough to meet
all the parking demand - a 685 parking space structure; (2) a smaller facility of
about 310 spaces at this location, with a 160 space surface lot at the Public Works
property (this land is owned by the town) ; (3) two surface lots (the Community Oil
and Public Works lots) . The highest cost of construction would be the 685 space
garage - in excess of $4. 2 million dollars; the 310 space garage and making the
Public Works lot a permanent facility - about $2.4 million dollars; cost of pur-
chase of the Community Oil lot and development of that and the Public Works lot -
about $1.5 million dollars. Their recommendation would be the 310 space garage,
with expansion capabilities, and that the Public Works lot be developed as a tempo-
rary parking lot to serve the needs of the lost parking during construction. A
formal financial analysis was done, looking at many cost and revenue assumptions,
the costs of construction, etc. , bonding requirements, the total development cost
would be in excess of $2.3 million dollars to develop that facility. Taking into
account the various sums of money accruing for parking over the years, interest
earned on a bond issue during construction, this would amount to about a half
million dollars deducted, resulting in a net development cost of about $1.8 mil-
lion dollars for the 310 space facility. They, assumed parking rates at 50 cents
387-2
MINUTES OF PUBLIC HEARING ON DOWNTOWN PARKING NEEDS, ETC.
per hour, $3.00 on a daily basis and $40 per month. Based on those rates and the
usage of this facility, they estimate about $179,000 per year, less about $57,000
in operating costs, for a net income of $122,000. He cited other figures that would
result in about a $3,000 surplus per year over and above costs for a 20-year period.
Financially, it would not be a risk venture. He also recommended making Loudoun and
Market Streets one-way throughout the town - they are a logical one-way pair and
could handle more traffic more safely.
Mr. Kelley felt there was a conflict in the actual cost of the entire project -
the difference between $2.4 million and $2. 7 million dollars. Mr. Flynn referred
him to Table 20 of the report rather than Table 19. Mr. Minor explained that the
difference is whether that lot is prepared as a temporary lot or as a permanent
parking facility or whether the Council decides to sell it. He further explained
to the public that the Public Works Facility will be moving to the Wastewater Treat-
ment Plant site on the east end of town. Should they decide to sell it, it would
be positive on the revenue side.
Mr. Bos sensed a number of references that sounded as though the estimates
are on the conservative side and asked Mr. Flynn if he could give a range? What
are the variations and the methodologies used and how would he rate them? Mr.
Flynn said he looked at this as a financial feasibility study talking about bonding
and revenues. Any time they talk about a financial study, they talk about bonding
and revenues - before they assume a revenue source it must be pretty solidly de-
termined - it must be reasonably assured, so everything tends to be on the con-
servative side. They assumed present revenues, with a modest increase in the
rate. For a financial study, they feel they need to be on the conservative side.
Their experience has been that the revenues will be better than they show them.
If everything is done with what they assume, they would say the financial picture
would be no worse than what is shown here, and likely better.
Mr. Kelley also asked how they projected the larger influx into the area in
the County Complex - where did they project this from? The County Government, in
its five—year CIP program, has designated over $llmillion dollars tb move portions
of the County Government to a new tract of land past our airport. Mr. Flynn said
they assumed there would be another user in that facility. Mayor Sevila suggested
that we hear more on this at another time - this is a good question. Mr. Flynn
asked that they keep in mind that the 310 space facility is only half of the de-
mand, so this would fall way short of the projected total parking demand. The
idea in the garage having the flexibility to expand is if, in fact, these numbers
are realized, you could provide additional parking at that location.
Harvey Berger, representing the Parking Committee of the Downtown Business
Association, presented to Council a petition they have placed in several locations
in the downtown business area - one for residents and one for non-residents. The
non-residents recognize the parking problem and feel the town should try to remedy
this situation - they enjoy shopping and visiting here and would like to continue
to do so as long as parking spaces are available. The one for residents supports
a downtown parking garage as proposed or a slightly modified form thereof. They
feel this should be done as soon as possible.There are approximately 847 signa-
tures and they are split about 50-50.
Stanley Caulkins recalled that they have been doing these studies for perhaps
thirty years and it is gratifying to see that Council is really "biting the bullet."
In 1940 there was no parking lot, but the Council bought the land next to the theater
for $5,000 and, with the help of the Power Company, made one. If".youttry.f.to`project
another twenty to twenty-five years onto today, you can see what will be needed.
We must have the foresight today to implement this kind of study by building for
the future. He feels Council is on the right track.
Mr. Norman Myers, a resident since 1945 and active in the business community,
for the last 15 years, felt the focal point is this parking situation. There is
some supplemental information pertaining to revenues that could pertain to this
study, one being the revenues generated by the proposed infill project around the
peripheral area of the parking structure (an example being what he did next to
White' s building on Loudoun Street) . This creates additional money to the town
in terms of tax money. He intends to expand this to the property next door. The
town also receives revenue sharing money on the sales tax. There are sewer tap
fees, personal property and real estate taxes. Using the 40,000 square foot in-
fill project around the edge of the parking lots, there could be another $20,000
to $30,000 a year in additional revenues that would be created by that proj-
ect. There would also be the potential for additional business from the existing
businesses by having an easier parking situation. He felt that his project could
perhaps be a model of the type of infill that can be done.
387-3
MINUTES OF PUBLIC HEARING ON DOWNTOWN PARKING NEEDS, ETC. , NOVEMBER 19, 1986.
Chip Groff, President of the Downtown Business Association, was pleased to see
that the proposed design is basically the same one they have endorsed since 1984
and that Council is working very hard to alleviate the parking problem and to
keep Leesburg a special place. The DBA is working for this too. Should the
County vacate its building, they would certainly expect that someone else would
occupy it and they would need a place to park. He felt the cost figures were
very conservative.
Mrs. Mimi Baker, a resident at the corner of Liberty and West Market Streets,
did not see any parking problem. Such a parking garage in the center of the his-
toric district would be a terrible thing to do to a lovely town.
Jim Pumphrey, of Jock's Exxon Station, voiced his support for such a parking
facility in downtown Leesburg - it is sorely needed. However, consideration of
making Market Street one-way does bother him - he did not feel this is absolutely
necessary or would be beneficial to the town. Downtown has been by-passed twice -
by Leesburg By-pass and by Catoctin Circle. He was not sure the cut-over streets
are wide enough to handle the traffic unless they take parking off of some of
them. Some of the businesses downtown depend on deliveries by large trucks and
the side streets are certainly not wide enough for them.
Colonel Michael Grenata felt Leesburg does have a parking problem and con-
gratulated Council for addressing it. The businessmen are very successful in in-
vesting the amount of money this is going to bring them. What about the appear-
ance of this area though? The town has a parking lot north of Market Station -
this would be an ideal place to build a parking structure. He suggested that Coun-
cil go slowly and make a thorough examination of the demands.
Mr. Fred Williams, a resident at 21 N. Wirt Street, agreed that there is a
parking problem, but his concern is more with the scale of the solution. The fa-
cade next to White's is a very nice example of infill, but what would it look
like if there is a three or four-story parking garage behind it? The report seemed
to exclude any study of the impact of this on the residential areas. The parking
garage would not help him because everybody would park in front of his house in-
stead of paying the garage. Concerning one-way streets, about ten years ago there
was virtually a crusade by the residents that said "absolutely no". If this deci-
sion is at all impacted by one-way streets, you have to look at the issues together.
There is no way Wirt Street could handle this kind of traffic. He is interested in
keeping Downtown Leesburg a combination residential, business and government area.
There was a comment about another quarter of a million square feet of new business
and government - this is a lot of square footage. He wanted to make sure they will
not damage the quality of the residential areas. As to the parking garage and one-
way streets, there was a comment that they took a look at how Annapolis did it.
They did a reasonably good job, however, the ones in Belair and Manassas did nota
The one-way street system has absolutely destroyed Manassas. He suggested study-
ing the failures, as well as the successes, and make sure we take the best of both.
Linda Lorber, who has been in business in Leesburg the last two years and
who works full-time at Xerox, hears from regular customers that they don' t come
in more often because they can' t find a parking space. This disturbs her be-
cause most of her customers are local people and those from Loudoun County. She
and friends from Xerox like to come into Leesburg to have lunch and do a little
shopping, but they can't find a parking space. As a result, they go to Fair Oaks
or to Sterling. This pushes people away from this area. If more businesses come
outside of Leesburg and there is a mall at Route 7 and 28, Leesburg will die.
This is a big concern.
Mr. Joseph Keating, speaking on behalf of the Loudoun Preservation Society,
said they have an interest in the aesthetics of a parking garage in an area where
it will impact on the Historic District. There are architectural standards of the
Secretary of the Department of the Interior for new buildings in historic districts.
There was a recommendation by the Town' s Planning Commission that these standards
be adopted. He hoped these would be adopted before plans are made for a downtown
parking garage. These will be beneficial in allaying some of the fears of an
adverse impact of a parking garage and, at the same time, will probably be re-en-
forcing to the National Endowment Fund for the Arts design competition that they
are helping implement, and which will have nationally recognized and uniform stand-
ards to use for guidance.
387-4 MINUTES OF PUBLIC HEARING ON DOWNTOWN PARKING NEEDS, ETC. , NOVEMBER 19, 1986
Reavis Sproull, a newcomer to Leesburg, hoped to help preserve and be of
usefulness to the community. If tourism is the second big business and they sell
it as an 18th-19th century town, what will happen if the hub of the community is
an automobile garage? We may have a parking problem, but that' s just the "tip
of the iceberg". If we put in a big parking facility, we have to open the streets
so the cars can get there - if it is put in the center, everybody has to walk -
if you put it around the periphery, you walk the same distance but in different
directions. He asked that they consider putting it around the periphery - then
you won' t destroy the historic area.
Donald Shea, 305 West Market Street, fully agreed with Mrs. Baker, Colonel
Grenata and others who have said you must measure the quality of life vs. the
revenue figures to the town - it would have to be an astronomical figure to out-
weigh the quality of life of the historic stiction of downtown Leesburg. Making
Loudoun and Market Streets a one-way pair/make it almost murderous to come out
of his driveway going west .to eastbound. He was not only concerned about the
"quality of life", but was concerned about life itself.
Mr. Flynn commented on several of the points raised by those speaking on this
matter. They expected the parking need from the County complex would be constant
(they assumed there would be a replacement of that use) . They have not studied the
one-way street system proposed in detail yet . As to the impact of such a structure
on the residential areas, the answer would be "Yes" - many people are parking on
the residential streets that are either working or shopping downtown. This fa-
cility would help meet this need, as well as the projected increased parking
problem. They feel this will be a positive impact on business . - availability
of parking should encourage people to shop here.
The question was also raised as to the one-time cost to be paid by developers
who do not provide their own parking, when the 300-car parking facility will cost
about $7,000 per space. Mayor Sevila explained that this could be amortized over
a 20-year period - Council has already recognized that this charge needs to be
appropriately increased. They need to start thinking in terms of adjusting this
one-time parking fee they are charging developers.
'I
Mr. Flynn explained that Leesburg has a logical pairing for one-way streets,
which would permit safer turns - the potential for an accident on a one-way street
is just about a quarter. They feel it should be further considered.
Mrs. Baker suggested making the public works lot a permanent lot , however, Mr.
Flynn said it is better than nothing, but it's too far from the demand area. Mr.
Fred Williams suggested making this lot for all-day parking for employees and keep-
ing the present lot at two to three-hour parking - this would free up this lot for
tourists and shoppers. Mr. Flynn added that, as long as people perceive walking two
or three blocks is too far and can park on the curb, you will still have the prob-
lem even if you provide 160 spaces down on South Street. They are projecting a need
for about 350 more spaces than there are now. This still leaves a shortfall. The
town may in the future decide this should be a full-time lot - there is certainly
a demand for it. This will take care of a part of the problem, but it won' t solve
it. They are projecting a need for about 350 spaces more than what is there now,
even if they provide 160 spaces down on South Street. You need the 600-space fa-
cility but you run into aesthetics. This would not give you the same financial pic-
ture the 310 space facility would.
Mr. Echols called attention to the number of private parking spaces being used
and the fact that there will be a lot of infill, thus eliminating a good part of this
space.
Mr. Hetzel asked if it is possible to go down with one story and not go quite
so high? Mr. Flynn said they looked at the parking needs and the financial and
traffic implications. It could go down, but the excavation, ventilation and other
1 costs would just about double. Mr. Minor said there would be two levels at grade
and then a third story. The only infill they would recommend would be at the cor-
ner of Wirt and Market Streets - they would like to see a municipalgwernment cen-
ter there. They would also recommend the area between the Tally- Ho Theater and
Roberson' s and the bank for infill development. They would also recommend some-
thing near the present office building, but they want to be sensitive to the open
space around the log cabin. Another important component, no matter what they do,
is the design competition. The National Endowment for the Arts recognizes that this
is a problem to do this in a sensitive way that it doesn' t affect the streetscape
and that it make a positive impact on the historic district. If we do infill in
addition to our building, then our design competition should look at the architec-
ture of all the infill development - then if we should sell or lease that property,
it will have architectural control on it. We would know precisely what the archi-
tectural elevations are going to be for that building.
387-5
MINUTES OF PUBLIC HEARING ON DOWNTOWN PARKING NEEDS, ETC. - NOVEMBER 19, 1986
Colonel Grenata thought the town had a policy that all businesses would fur-
nish their own parking. Mayor Sevila said the Council does recognize that there
is a shortage of parking in the downtown historic district and that the towni_I_
will have to meet this need and that it will be a very expensive proposition to
meet it adequately. It is virtually impossible for all the businesses downtown
to provide their own off-street parking. Colonel Grenata asked if the consultants
had considered the parking area north of Market Station? Mr. Flynn said they did
look at this, but not as a site for a parking structure - the key demand is in
the downtown area. Colonel Grenata also referred to the mall in Winchester - why
can't Leesburg put parking areas around the businesses and let people walk? Mr.
Flynn was familiar with Winchester - his firm did all the consultant work for
them - they have several parking areas, as well as a major parking structure right
behind the mall which is well utilized. Colonel Grenata then suggested moving the
people who work in town to the public works lot and that the County provide park-
ing spaces for their employees. We should preserve the quality of life in the
Historic District .
Charles Smith remarked that they have not discussed the aesthetics of such a
structure. Mr. Flynn said they have not ignored them - they assumed certain costs
they felt would permit adequate facade treatment that would permit an aestheti-
cally attractive facility. They looked at it to provide a facility that met as
much of the demand as possible but still not bea financial burden on the town.
Mayor.- Sevila said the actual design, and they hope the aesthetic treatment will
be addressed in the design competition and funded with the bond that we have.
Certainly this will affect the cost to some extent.
Chip Groff said everybody is talking about the same thing - how to do the best
thing for downtown. All we need to do is figure out the best way to do it. The
residents and the businesses need each other.
Don Shea had several questions concerning the ratio of spaces being used by
employees in the downtown area. Mr. Flynn explained the formula used to project
these increases and said that one-third of the total employee parking demand is
being used by them. They are not increasing the parking by 100 percent, but this
will provide an additional 100 long-term or employee parking spaces in this im-
mediate area and free up more of the short-term uses. This would reduce the
34 percent employee parking in the curb spaces with this plan. Mayor Sevila
felt this is a hypothetical question - Mr. Shea is asking if the town, by spend-
ing $5 or $6 million dollars, has;: a two percent increase on the net gain of our
businesses downtown, would we go ahead with it? The answer is No, we wouldn't.
The question was asked as to how much square footage will be used for office
space? Mr. Minor replied that it would be 30,000 square feet, including a new
Council Chambers. This will be a separate building from the parking garage.
Mr. Kelley explained that there are four separate items to be bonded out of the
Capital Improvements program. The total figure will be provided by staff in the
near future. This is talking about Ida Lee Park, a projected new office complex
for the town, utility and public works projects and the parking facility.
Mr. Hetzel felt that copies of the study should be made available to those
present in this room. He was advised that copies have been made available at the
Town Office and there has been a counter copy available for anyone interested.
Someone in the audience remarked that they have talked about the residents
and businesses of the downtown area, but no-one has spoken about those who do
not live within walking distance. At some time or other, almost everyone has to
come downtown. Mr. Flynn said their study did not identify where people lived,
so they do not know the potential demand. Obviously, there is a shortage of park-
ing. He agreed it would be interesting to interview some of these people who live
away from the center of town.
Mayor Sevila announced that the record will remain open until November 26th
to receive written comments from the public. He thanked those who have spoken
tonight and asked that these comments be reduced to summary form, so Council may
review them. Someone suggested that they look at Department of Interior stand-
ards for new construction in historic districts before they look at design com-
petition. The comments received tonight will be very helpful to Council in mak-
ing a decision. This document will be considered by Council in public meetings,
to which all are invited. Additional copies of the study can be made available.
There are a lot of unknowns to be addressed. He commended Mr. Flynn for the ad-
mirable job he has done this evening.
387-6
MINUTES OF PUBLIC HEARING ON DOWNTOWN PARKING NEEDS, ETC. , NOVEMBER 19, 1986
Mr. Bos commented that people will walk a mile to get to a store in a shopping
mall, but they won' t in downtown Leesburg. The average time spent- in- Leesburg:for
short-term parking was about an hour or less for around 70 percent of them. As-
suming they are parking in this lot, a portion of their time is walking (about 10
minutes to go to the bank). If they are walking from the public works lot or from
South Street, that time would increase to perhaps 15 minutes. At what point do
they decide they will change and go to one of the banks on Catoctin Circle or some-
where else? Mr. Flynn said most people will walk a couple of blocks - if you can
see where you are going, that is acceptable. So that makes it more important
to keep parking as close to business as possible.
Mr. Pelkey said there are four questions: (1) how much would the total cost
be? (2) Is there a need? (3) How much would it cost the public? (4) Is there
an alternative? From the comments tonight, he has reached the following conclu-
sions: (1) There is and will continue to be a parking problem in downtown Lees-
burg. (2) In the final analysis, a decision will be made - it will have to be
political, practical and a financial solution. He is aware that parking has to
be near the demand, but you can' t make everybody happy. We have to look at the
political, the financial and other problems. We have to look at all our needs
for the bond issue. We have to do something about the parking.
Mr. Curry suggested a workshop with the consultant. Mayor Sevila asked Mr.
Minor to suggest a work or study schedule, during which time Council would be
working toward an ultimate conclusion on this document .
Mr. Kelley agreed with this, but also to include the new town office building
since these are basically the same sites. We need to make decisions on the other
items as well.
Mr. Tolbert said he has been through all of this before - the parking lot -
one-way streets - people talking about having to go back to Vinegar Hill for their
cars. There is still no conclusion on one-way streets. He came into town one day
and there was no parking, so he went back home and someone had taken his space
there.
Mr. Williams felt anyone coming here between 10 a.m. adnd 4 p.m.knows how dif-
ficult it is to find a parking space. We are all concerned with the aesthetics '
of a parking structure and have a responsibility to be sure that the facade is
appropriate to the historic district. He thinks it must be determined what the
total cost is of all four items. However, the need for a parking facility is
1 what this hearing is about . From the public comments, they are all in agree-
ment on the public need for parking, but it is 'a matter- of -addressing-the -peripheral
edges of it . He thanked those who came and spoke tonight and for advising them
that they want them to look at all the issues, particularly those on one-way streets.
They will be carefully analyzed and taken into consideration.
Mr. Minor said staff can be available at whatever time is agreeable with
Council. They do intend to furnish a recommended bond package. Estimates for the
capital projects they have talked about are in the Council' s Capital Improvements
Policy, however, these are preliminary estimates for purposes of structure of the
bond issue. They also need to look at what revenues are available through actions
of the Council and compare these to the gross cost estimates. They need to decide
IIS which projects are to be funded - which ones through new debt and which ones from
current revenues. They will have recommendations for the next committee meeting.
On motion of Mr. Williams, seconded by Mr. Kelley, the hearing was adjourned.
�� � ��y/�p' Mayor
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Clerk ,f{f the Council