HomeMy Public PortalAbout04/04/00 Special CCM45
MEDINA CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES OF APRIL 4, 2000
The City Council of Medina, Minnesota met in special session on April 4, 2000 at 6:00 p.m. in
the City Hall Chambers. Mayor John Ferris presided.
Members present: Ferris, Hamilton, Johnson, and Smith.
Members absent: Zietlow.
Also present: Police Chief Ed Belland, Attorney Ron Batty, City Engineer Glenn Cook,
Planning & Zoning Administrator Loren Kohnen, Administrator -Clerk -Treasurer Paul Robinson,
Jim Grube, Marcel Kulas, and Greg Chock from Hennepin County.
1. County Road 101
Jim Grube said he brought with him a corridor study. He said this was the County's first attempt
at the redesign of County Road 101 from Trunk Highway 55 up to County Road 47. He said
one of the first things that they are doing is looking for a 100 feet of right of way. They are trying
to do that with as little impact on existing residential properties as possible. He described the
corridor study from TH 55 up to CR 47. He said as the road goes by Berthiaume's property, the
Holiday gas station, and the Cherry Hill development, the 100 feet of ROW is basically taken
from the property line of those developments to the east. This was done in order not to impact
those residents on the western side of the road. However, this alignment does impact two other
residential properties along the road. Jim Grube said at this point they are not sure what the
ultimate impact will be, but both properties are in jeopardy and may need to be acquired by the
County.
There was some discussion about the projected traffic.
Jim Grube said Hennepin County's traffic numbers, which he understands Medina used in their
Comprehensive Plan, are based on a broad overview of the area. They are good planning
numbers, but not as good for projecting traffic in a specific area. In order to project traffic for
this project, they will need to conduct a more detailed study of this particular area and
travelshed.
There was also some discussion about the alignment of the road.
Grube said that, overall, the road was designed for 50 m.p.h. He said as the road goes around
the corner by the Holiday Station and down to the intersection at TH 55, the design changes to
a 40 m.p.h. curve and slows down as it approaches the intersection. He said a significant part
of this project was to make this approach much safer by significantly improving the sight lines
and by making the hill and the curve more gradual.
Jim Grube explained some of the processes for acquiring property and the options they provide
property owners. At this point, none of these issues have been discussed with the property
owners. This is still just a corridor study, meant to give us an initial overview of the project.
Carolyn Smith had some questions about whether or not they could include a curve on the
portion of 101 that goes through the Elwell Farm (Hennepin County Property).
Jim Grube said they presented a curve and straight option to the Comprehensive Plan
Implementation Committee. At that time, it was shown that these two options basically had the
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same impact on wetlands and on the number of trees lost. He said from the point of the
environmental impact, it was a fairly negligible difference, however, it is the County's position
that they would rather have the road go straight. They believe this is a better and safer
alignment for the road.
Carolyn Smith said at the CPIC meeting there was some discussion about constructing a bridge
over the creek on the Elwell property. She asked if a little more substantial bridge could be built
that would allow for residents on either side of the CR 101 to go under the bridge on a trail.
Jim Grube said that may be possible.
Glenn Cook mentioned that a pedestrian bridge linking the north and south side of TH 55 has at
times been discussed and is included, conceptually, in the City's Comprehensive Plan.
Jim Grube acknowledged that this is an idea that needs to be brought up in order to make any
discussion of this area complete.
Jim Grube said they would be updating the City as this process moves along. Their next steps
are to do some traffic analysis and to fine-tune their plan to understand exactly where right of
way is needed.
2. Hamel Road
Jim Grube said Greg Chock and Marcel Kulas would be presenting this issue since they are
more directly related with the paving of Hamel Road.
Greg Chock said he met with Jim Dillman and discussed some of the methods Medina employs
to design and build roads. He said currently, their plan is to do the base preparation and
drainage work this year. He said next year they would pave the road. This will not be a fully
engineered road, it will be done much like the way Medina built roads. He said they would be
keeping as close to the current alignment of the road as possible and not acquire any additional
right of way. They plan to meet with each property owner to discuss each individual
circumstance as the road is developed so that each property owner is comfortable with the road
alignment.
John Ferris asked if they were going to stake the whole road.
Greg Chock said they were going to meet with each property owner to work with each individual
circumstance. He said staking the road may not be necessary.
There was some additional discussion about other road projects in the City and how they were
accomplished. There was a question about the installation of new stop signs.
Jim Grube said that they will install an all way stop sign at Willow Drive and Hamel Road, but
they will not install a stop sign at County Road 201/Parkview Road at this time.
David Crosby asked what the posted speed would be on Hamel Road.
He said the posted speed would be 40 m.p.h.
David Crosby asked if there were going to be paved shoulders.
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Greg Chock said that they were going to try to leave most of the shoulders unpaved. However,
in some areas paving may make more sense in order to resolve some drainage issues.
He said they will keep the City up to date on what work they will be doing this summer and
appreciated the opportunity to talk with the Council.
3. Informational Meeting on Willow Drive
Glenn Cook described the project, the cost, and how the assessments were determined. He
said in 1992, the gravel base was oiled, not all of it, but a portion of it. He said last year, the
City completed the base work in preparation for paving the road this year.
He explained that it is cheaper to pave a road than it is to maintain a gravel road once it reaches
a certain daily traffic load.
Paul Robinson explained that the unit assessments were based on the amount of suitable soils
required for a buildable lot. If a person has 10 acres of suitable soils, they were charged for two
units.
Glenn Cook described assessments on other City projects over the past several years. He said
they have ranged from $4,500 per unit to $2,500 per unit. He said that this project is being done
for a very reasonable cost to the residents.
David Crosby asked what type of shoulders the road would have and if they would
accommodate horses as was originally designed.
Glenn Cook said they would continue to keep the road between 22 feet and 24 foot with
shoulders on each side, more to one side than the other, leaving a larger shoulder for horses.
Glenn Cook said it is a tough road to maintain a four foot shoulder on.
Robert Etem, 2705 Willow Dr., said that there has been quite a bit of traffic increase in the past
few years. He said he believed it should be vigorously patrolled. He was also concerned about
the excessive speed and weight of trucks that are traveling on the road and the significant
increase in the amount of truck traffic they have seen over the past few years. He was in favor
of having the road paved, but would like to see significant enforcement so that the road is not
excessively traveled or traveled at excessive speeds. He was concerned about the number of
Hennepin County trucks that have been traveling on the road as well as blacktop trucks and
other industrial type vehicles.
Liz Turnquist, 2000 Chestnut Road, was concerned about the increase in traffic. She said they
moved out to the country to have their horses and to be able to enjoy the country life style.
They are horse people and in the spring when the trails are very muddy, they are not able to
use the trails so they ride along the roads. However, in recent years that has become harder
and harder to do. It is getting scarier. There is so much traffic and the greater amount of trucks
has made it more difficult to ride your horses, it can be very dangerous.
Jenny Helmquist, 2495 Willow Drive, said at 4 p.m. to 5 p.m., or early in the morning, it is just
amazing the amount of trucks that you see.
Jim Johnson said based on the traffic counts, there has not necessarily been a significantly
increase over the past several years. However, to some degree, traffic has increased
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everywhere and will continue to increase. He said that people drive at excessive speeds on
gravel roads, as well as paved roads. However, when cars drive fast on the gravel roads, they
create dust and are actually more of a safety hazard than on a paved road.
John Ferris said he has Arabian horses which, as most horse people know, can be very scared
when riding on the roads. He said he realizes how scary it is. However, he also realizes that if a
truck passes you on a gravel road in the summer, when you are on a horse, you will be engulfed
in a big cloud of dust which can be equally as debilitating as the fast moving vehicle.
Nancy Olkon, 2362 Willow Drive, agrees that there is a safety concern. She explained that she
was also concerned about the amount of Hennepin County trucks that have started to use their
road and how much additional truck traffic there is. She said she often rides her horse from her
house down to Hamel and Willow, and in the 15 minutes it takes to make that ride, she often will
see at least 15 trucks. Last summer in a rainstorm, her horse was so scared by a reckless truck
that she was thrown off the horse and into the ditch. She was very concerned about the impact
of paving the road and about the current usage of the road.
Betty Goodman, 2495 Willow Drive, wondered if this was an irrevocable decision. If a number
of residents do not want it paved, will it be paved anyway?
John Ferris said that, right now, the Council is having an informal meeting to meet with the
residents to discuss the issues. He said the City is not poised to take action on this issue this
evening. However, the City Council needs to look at the City of Medina as a whole and look at
what is best for the City.
Another gentlemen wanted to know how he could stop this. He did not want to live on a
residential road with a yellow striped line and a fog line. He believed that people would drive
faster and faster on a paved road versus a gravel road.
Todd Hilde, 2492 Willow Drive, wanted to know the main concern of the City. Is it the broader
needs of the City, is it for Hennepin County, or is it of the broader regional area. Who does the
Council feel that they are serving with this.
John Ferris said they are serving the interests of Medina, period. He said, the problem now is
the condition of the road. We are expected to maintain the road and he said he does not
necessarily like clouds of dust and rocks kicked up at him when he is out riding his horse.
There are a number of reasons why a gravel road is not always a preferred road even if you are
on a horse.
Todd Hilde mentioned that they really liked the gravel road. He said it adds a quaint, nice fabric
to the area and a painted and striped road would diminish the rural quaintness and quality they
believe the gravel road brings, as well as an increase in traffic. He asked why people don't just
use County Road 19 or 101 on either side of the community rather than come down through the
middle.
Carolyn Smith said, so far tonight, they have heard a lot of comments from people opposed to
the road. However, the Council has received letters and comments from six other people before
the meeting who were in favor of paving the road. She just wanted to mention that there is also
a contingency of folks that would like to have the road paved. She was concerned about the
amount of traffic and the speed of the traffic. However, it does not seem to make a difference
whether it is a paved road or a gravel road.
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Jenny Goelz, 2325 Hamel Road, said there has been such an increase in traffic that you can
watch people when they hit the end of the blacktop how they speed up. She is not interested in
having it paved and would rather have a gravel road and have people go on either 101 or 19.
Glen Jeffery, 2605 Willow Drive, thought that a paved road would be nice, but was concerned
about the amount the potential increase in traffic that may occur and the amount of traffic that is
occurring right now. He does not want Willow to become a main north/south route through the
City and thought there should be some way of restricting the amount of trucks on the road, for
example, incorporating speed bumps, posting a 25 m.p.h. speed limit, or requiring some type of
weight limit. He was not interested in having a striped road. He thought it would be much more
pastoral and rural looking if it were a non -striped road.
Ed Belland said that based on the residential density determined in State Statute, Willow is a 40
m.p.h. road.
There was some discussion about other roads posted at lower speeds, however, there was
some issue about whether or not the lower speed limits can be enforced.
Glenn Cook said that there had been a number of discussions like this concerning other roads
in the City. He said a problem with restricting weight is that you also restrict garbage trucks,
school buses, a number of other activities that you may want, especially if you are constructing
something or you need a load of gravel. There are also interstate commerce laws that need to
be adhered to and road restrictions cannot be too restrictive.
Jim Johnson said this is going to continue to be a problem and it is going to get worse especially
since Corcoran, Rogers, St. Michael, all these cities to the north are growing and the traffic on
94 is getting more and more severe, people are looking for alternate routes.
John Ferris said that he would have Staff follow up with Hennepin County to make sure they are
not using the interior roads as they agreed.
Jim Lane, 2605 Hamel Road, said he believed the County was taking advantage of the City with
their use of Hamel Road and Willow Drive. He said he walks daily in this area and there is a
significant amount of traffic from the County. He believes that the City needs to have a heart to
heart conversation with the County. The City needs to hold them to their agreement.
Mr. Etem said that he was not opposed to paving the road. He said he thinks there should be a
very good road built there. He said he is just concerned about the weight and the speed of the
traffic. He suggested that possibly as an educational tool, the City place signs warning people
that alert people about horse riding in the area.
John Ferris said that probably would not be a bad idea.
Liz Turnquist said that she has seen yellow signs with a horse and rider on it that may at least
raise some awareness.
Ray Swenson, 2520 Willow Drive, said that he is the only property owner that is being assessed
for three units. He wondered how that was done.
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Loren Kohnen, who had just arrived, said basically you have over 15 acres of good soils and
your property could potentially be divided into three buildable lots.
David Crosby, 2402 Hamel Road, mentioned that it may be possible to incorporate some type of
speed bumps, not the type of speed bumps that you think about with a big, big bump, but ones
like they use throughout Europe. They use a series of low striped bumps to alert you that you
are entering into a more residential area and need to slow down.
John Hamilton said that he is a police officer and he realizes that people are always concerned
about the amount of traffic and speeding in the area. However, when they stop speeders, the
most frequent speeders they stop are people who live in the area. He said the neighbors need
to be the first ones to take the idea of slowing down to heart.
John Ferris thanked everybody for coming. He said, at this point, the Council is going to take
this feedback and talk about what the next steps will be. No action is being taken at this point.
He said the Council will address this issue over the next month or two and recontact the
residents when we have come to some type of consensus. At that point, we will set up another
informational meeting. In the meantime, we will contact the County about the trucks and look
into some of the other issues.
4. Adjourn
Motion made by Carolyn Smith, seconded by John Hamilton, to adjourn the special meeting at
8:00 p.m.
Medina City Council - Special Meeting Minutes
April 4, 2000