HomeMy Public PortalAbout1999_05_25TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OF MAY 25, 1999
A regular meeting of the Leesburg Town Council was held on Tuesday, May 25, 1999, at
7:30 p.m., in the Council Chambers, 25 West Market Street, Leesburg, Virginia. The meeting
was called by Mayor James E. Clem.
COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT
Frank Buttery
Mervin Jackson
Leonard McDonald (arrived at 7:40 p.m.)
Kristen Umstattd
B. J. Webb
Bob Zoldos
Mayor Clem
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT
Acting Town Manager Paul E. York
Director of Engineering and Public Works Thomas A. Mason
Director of Parks and Recreation Kaj Dentler
Director of Planning, Zoning and Development Michael Tompkins
Assistant Town Manager for Economic Development John Henry King
Public Information Officer Susan Farmer
Deputy Town Attorney Deborah Welsh
Clerk of Council Barbara Markland
1. INVOCATION: Vice Mayor Webb
2. SALUTE TO THE FLAG: Boy Scouts from Pack 982
3. ROLL CALL: All members of Council were present.
4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: MOTION: On motion of Buttery, seconded by Jackson, the
regular meeting minutes of May 11, 1999 were approved as written.
VOTE:
Aye: Councilmembers Buttery, Jackson, Umstattd, Webb, Zoldos, Clem
Nay: None
Absent: Councilmember McDonald
5. PETITIONERS There were none.
6. PUBLIC HEARING: To address the parking issue at the Loud0un County High School and
surrounding residential neighborhoods.
Acting Town Manager Paul E. York, stated, "as you know this is a problem that the town has
been trying to work with various groups to resolve about the last year now. Essentially the
problem has grown worse and we expect it to continue to get worse than what it currently is."
Mr. York referred to a photograph and stated, "in the very left hand corner you can see two
trailers with vehicles - that is the parking lot that LCHS plans to place an additional six trailers
for temporary class rooms, this summer. By doing so that will displace an additional 57 parking
spaces. A you can see there are several parking lots on the school property. There are several
toward the rear of the school. There is one on the upper right hand corner close to their
maintenance facility and there is one on the right up front. All of these lots total about 352
spaces which is what they currently have on site. With the 57 that they will be displacing that
will give them approximately 300 spaces next year for parking. Currently the high school staff
are using this particular lot that they plan to place the trailers on. Which certainly means the
students, I'm sure, are going to be the ones who are going to be displaced. That will be about 57
less parking spots for the students to use next year."
Mr. York, "the questioned is raised by several groups that have approached the town about
considering alternatives. One alternative that the school board may wish to consider - as you can
see just to the west of this particular parking lot there is quite a bit of open space. There is an
athletic practice field just on the other side that it appears it is used for practice purposes only.
You can see the baseball diamonds to the north and to the west of that is the football field and
there is a softball diamond on the other side of the football field. But one alternative the school
might want to consider is using this practice area for student or staff parking. I am not sure how
many additional spaces they can get in there but there seems to be quite a bit of real estate there
that they could possible use on school property itself."
Mr. York, "one of the problems we've had is the students parking in the neighborhoods
surrounding the high school. We have been contacted by a number of residents concerning these
students parking in the neighborhoods. One of the things the Council may wish to consider in
order to alleviate some of the parking problems that are occurring in the neighborhoods is to
initiate some type of no parking or permit parking regulations in the neighborhoods that are
affected. The one that seems to be generating the most complaints is the Catoctin Chase
neighborhood. Tearose, Primrose and Rosemeade streets seem to be getting quite a bit of
students parking in that vicinity with associated speeding, trash, what have you. Students are
also using Catoctin Circle all the way out to Catoctin Elementary School and certainly are using
Dry Mill Road."
Mr. York, "this is a problem that town staff has worked on for over a year and going back to our
records on what has occurred during the past year, we have met with the students, faculty and
staff of the high school. Its been the subject of many Council meetings, commission meetings
and no one has come up with any concrete solutions to the problem. It is a problem and in all
appearance it is going to continue to get worse."
Councilmember Buttery, "has there been any information given with respect to when the new
high school opens what that will translate to in terms of student reduction numbers at LCHS?"
Mr. York, "I haven't heard any concrete numbers. The new high school in Ashburn is not going
to open until the following school. Even when that school opens there is a possibility that those
trailers will not be moved."
Vice Mayor Webb, "I have had conversations with Mr. Hatrick - when the Ashbum school comes
on line it will remove 350-400 students from LCHS not this year but the following year. Those
will not be upper class men. No 'seniors will be transferred that year which obviously are the
highest percentage of students who drive. So we may have a slight reduction but the school will
continue to be over crowded. This next year will be their most challenged year in terms of
facility but the following year it will be a little less impact but not much because quite honestly
until the seniors are no longer there you probably eliminate a high percentage of drivers to
school."
Mr. York, "actually the biggest impact will probably take place when the new Leesburg high
school is constructed and that's probably not going to be for at least five years or so."
Councilmember Jackson~ "! talked to Lee Phillips today. He said he'd been out there and there is
going to be 400 new seniors next year and probably only 100 spaces for them to park. Probably
the following year it will reduce but next year is really going to be a problem."
Councilmember Zoldos, "has the County of Loudoun or the County School Board approached us
at all with any solutions whatsoever?"
Mr. Yo~,"No."
Vice Mayor Webb, "I have met with Mr. Starzinski and Mr. Hatrick on this issue - have
approached them on the possibility of turning the practice field into additional parking or space
to put their trailers on and at this time they have not indicated any desire to do that. And
unfortunately and the frustrating thing for us as a Council is we have no control over what the
school board does on their property. The only thing we can control is what happens in our
neighborhoods and in our community streets. But we can't dictate to the school board where
they put trailers. And our zoning ordinance which quite honestly is in the process of being
redrafted doesn't require any more parking then what they have there currently."
Mayor Clem, "so in essence what your saying is there is no willingness to sit down and try to
work through this problem?"
Vice Mayor Webb, "Mr. Starzinski has sat down and is certainly trying to find some solutions
but quite honestly if he doesn't get any cooperation from the folks over on North Street he is
between a rOCk and hard place and he is willing- we are meeting with the student counsel when
they are elected the first week of June to tell them hopefully what the community wants to have
happen in regards to parking so that that information gets to the students before they leave this
school year and that will force them to have to make some decisions of how those 120 parking
spaces that are available for students are allotted. They are going to have to make some tough
decisions and Mr. Starzinski has been very direct in saying 'you know from our standpoint if you
make all of the areas around the schoOl no parking zones for students its fine with us because its
a smaller area that we have to keep an eye on our kids.' They can't have teachers wandering up
and'down the streets of Leesburg when they need to be in their classrooms teaching."
Councilmember McDonald, "I had a conversation with one young man who is on the athletic
team and he brought it to my attention that two of those fields set there all year long - they are
never used. Its the athletic department that chooses that - the director of athletics will not allow
them to use it for practice. So you have a baseball diamond, and a football field that is not being
used. I would think over the next couple of years to get this town through this crunch that we
could get a little cooperation out of people who serve the people of Leesburg."
Councilmember Umstattd, "as I understand it the options are, parking by permit only, however
the high school students would be permitted to purchase a permit. We cannot deny them the
right to purchase a permit we could only charge them more. Charge non-residents more money
for a permit. The other option, would be no on street parking between certain hours of the day.
One option has been 8:00 a.m. - 10:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. Those are the two options
we've looked at."
Mr. York, "one thing I did fail to mention during my earlier comments - the town has made
Foxridge Park available for student parking. There are 50 parking spaces there that we offer to
students to use. My understanding is they are not using those spaces currently. In looking back
through the file, the town even did some work on Catoctin Circle to create 20 additional parking
spaces. As far as the permit parking, I did have Deputy Town Attorney Deborah Welsh look into
that and she has advised me that we cannot deny permits to anyone that wants a permit. We can
differentiate between the cost of the permit for residents of the town or non-residents. We can't
issue permits strictly for residency on those particular streets that are affected. So actually
anybody that would have a Leesburg decal on their car could come in and purchase a permit at X
number of dollars. If you had a county decal on your car you could come in and purchase a
permit at X number of dollars and it could be higher for a non-resident. But you can't
distinguish as far as residency on that particular street. Now as far as the no parking - we could
make these streets no parking zones within certain time periods. Either have one period in the
morning from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. and another time in the afternoon from 1:00 p.m. to 4:00
p.m. Or you could make it no parking from 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. But we certainly could make
it a no parking zone."
Councilmember Umstattd, "I don't know who put up the sign on Belmont" - Mr. York, "I
checked into that and apparently that sign has been there forever. Its been there as long as the
street department can remember. I'm not sure how that sign got there." Councilmember
Umstattd, "that sign says no parking during school hours. Is it your impression that perhaps the
town never authorized it? It might have been a frustrated homeowner who put it up?" Mr. York,
"I don't know. I can't find anybody who remembers the thing going up. But several people have
said that it has been there for quite some time but no one remembers who put it there or how it
got there."
Mayor Clem, "The Leesburg school district runs from Point of Rocks all the way down to Aldie
so it gives you this long cylindrical type of piece of property."
Councilmember Zoldos, "What if we had a parking sign that indicated parking for residents and
guests during school hours?" Mr. York, "I think that's what Deborah Welsh and I commented on
that you could not restrict the permit just to residents of that particular street. That that would
not be permitted under current law. Its a public street so you can't restrict access to a public
street from any one. It is public property and we would not be permitted to do that."
Councilmember Jackson, "let's say, my son has a child graduating from LCHS and I come in
from North Carolina and want to bring my family. If you give permit parking and they park in
there with a North Carolina sticker - in front of that house - they probably think you are all right.
So how do they know if my family is away that they can't park there or how far away do they
have to park?" Mr. York, "that's one of the problems of doing something like this. The
enforcement of it. If we do initiate either a no parking or permit parking we can't selectively
enforce who can or cannot park there. Every one would have to be treated equally including the
residents of these particular streets if this happens. That's one of the fallacies of doing this thing
is that the residents would be impacted the same as the students from a parking standpoint. We
would have to enforce it upon them the same as we would the students. I don't see how to
selectively enforce either a no parking or permit parking application."
Ms. Patti Nelson, a resident of Rosemeade Place stated, "It feels like the Council has been
addressing this issue and I'm pleased to hear that. As you've heard our neighborhood has
literally become a high school parking lot. Can you imagine 20 inexperienced teenage drivers
swarming you every morning? You know while your trying to get out with your kids and they -
in talking to neighbors I discovered that there are a few neighbors who are not as impacted by
this so I'm aware that not everybody has this experience. Those of us who are home - like if you
leave by 8 in the morning and you come home at 4:30 you might not notice it except for the trash
on your lawn. For those of us who are home with our young children it is a horrendous
experience. There is at least 20 kids that come in. They turn every which way. They stop in the
middle of the street to talk to each other while your trying to get out of the neighborhood. They
park in front of the mailboxes. They park so close to your driveways you can't safely back out
and so your trying to back out of your driveway and there's a crowd of them in the middle of the
street. Its dangerous for us and its dangerous for them. They stand around in groups either in the
street or in people's lawns. While they're standing around they - it usually involves smoking,
often necking, sometimes gymnastic fetes of sorts and usually trash. The other day I was leaving
my neighborhood and I'm stuck there because there is a group of kids in front of me in the
middle of the street and I look over and I have my two little boys in the car and there is two of
them fighting. They are rolling around on the ground fighting with a group of boys around them
yelling and its on my neighbor' s lawn. Its on their front lawn. Its like we' ve - during those hours
we've lost our neighborhood. Sometimes the police come in the mornings or afternoons and I'm
grateful to see them. What also happens though is I just have two more cars to try and get around
to get out of my neighborhood. Its like taking my children to school has become an ordeal
everyday. The things that we've tried to do to solve the problem. Last year we circulated a
petition to post no parking signs and there's a problem with that because we have some
neighbors who have more cars then they can fit on their driveway. We're all going to have to
start building driveways to fit these other cars on. My hope is that we don't have to be very
inconvenienced to solve this problem. The other thing that we've tried is - we certainly talked to
the high school and talked to Rick Brown and they've talked to - according to Rick Brown -
they've asked the students to be courteous and not park on our streets and use Catoctin Circle
and Foxridge Park. Whenever I've driven by the Foxridge Park parking lot its empty. There's
maybe one car there. We call the police they come for a while. While they are there things settle
down. They can't come everyday. They can't be there everyday twice a day. As soon as they
are gone it goes back to the way it was. We've occasionally even tried to talk to the teenagers.
And anywhere from speaking to them in a reasonable manner to screaming at them. Its gotten so
that people are out screaming at teenagers. I have literally gone out into the middle of the street
and held out my hand to stop them. I live near a cul-de-sac and they go around that cul-de-sac so
fast that they're tires squeal. And you go out and stop them and they respond with obscene
gestures. I was at the meeting last night and one of the questions was are you afraid to
confront/correct other people's children and I raised my hand. And not everybody did. And I'll
tell you I do a lot of things that I am afraid to do and confronting the teenagers in my
neighborhood is one of those things. But I'm not going to pretend its not a frightening
experience to go out into the middle of the street when they are driving down your street a 35
mph. So talking to them has not gone real well. What I get about this is that they are teenagers
and they are being teenagers. They are not going to stop being teenagers for me. Its so terribly
incompatible to turn a residential neighborhood with families and young children into a high
school parking lot. I can't imagine why there would be anyone here that wouldn't see how that
was a problem for us. We are the grown ups and this is an accident waiting to happen. Around
my cul-de-sac there are 12 little boys and some day we are going to have 12 teenage boys on our
cul-de-sac but right now its tricycles, bicycles, kickball in a circle and squealing tires. I can't let
my kids out until the teenagers are gone. I hear those tires squealing in that court and I'm hoping
everybody else kept their kids in too. I have two specific requests. I was going to request permit
parking because it seems to me that it would be the least inhibiting of the residents on our street.
I don't understand why we can't have resident parking - permit parking just for the residents.
When I lived in the District you lived in Zone 1 and you got Zone 1 stickers and the only people
that could park there - and those were all public streets too. I know that they do some of this
permit parking stuff in Vienna. I have people you can call and find out. I don't want to get
permits and then have anyone who wants to park on my street get a permit. So if that's how its
going to go I don't know what the solution to this is. Except that I think we need to find one
soon because if something happens its all of our responsibility because we all know that this is
going on. The other thing - my other request is that we take care of the teenagers. I mean they're
walking down Catoctin Circle and there is no sidewalks. I'm not going to pretend to know why
they are all driving. When I was a teenager, seniors got permits - everybody else walked. But
these are different times and I have little kids so I don't know what this is about but they are all
driving and I want to see a solution. I don't want to just kick them off our street as though they
should be disregarded. I would very much like to see something happen. Offer them - you can
drive or you can have football field. Maybe give them some choices. I'm really hoping that you
can solve their problem too."
Mayor Clem, "is there anyone here from the school board? I would suggest to everyone in this
room that the school board meetings - that they meet the same hour that we're meeting. On the
second and fourth Tuesdays of the month. That you schedule a march on the school board in two
weeks. The town will do everything within our means. But this has to be a two-way decision.
This is something that the town can't solve alone. We need their help as much as we need your
help."
Mr. Stephen Axeman, "One of the things that the parking does on both sides of the road is make
it difficult for garbage pickup and post pickup and delivery - LIPS trucks that come every 3
seconds and so forth. They have to double park getting in and out is difficult then again its
difficult for the children that are home during the day. The students who have to leave for
doctor's appointments and so forth - otherwise I don't see why they are permitted to drive to
school. We were never permitted when I was in high school - in my day we weren't allowed to
do it. We had a bus. The buses are there. The buses are half empty. I've talked to some of the
bus drivers and they have seats. Its more environmentally friendly. So the students should be on
the buses and get themselves to school that way. That would not only help when traffic lets out
in the afternoon when school gets out you know what its like on Catoctin Circle. I don't want to
leave my neighborhood at that time. I ride my bicycle all the time and I don't like going through
the students. I don't like to have to look out for them. I don't like to have to battle through
W&OD trail to get through these kids that won't move out of the way. And I don't want to ride
my bike when they're on the road either. Not with that many cars. But I do definitely try to
avoid doing any of my shopping and things when they're coming to school and going out of
school. So if you could eliminate a lot of that it would make it easier for people that have to
work. The morning to commute - I would imagine it would reduce that as well. So I think
bussing would be the environmentally friendly way to do it. And the only thing I agree with Patti
that I don't know about permit parking I suppose if you made it more cost prohibited for non-
residents. I don't how you would do that - $200.00 or $300.00 and a dollar for residents.
Something like that. I don't have a problem with either one. Personally either with the no
parking signs all day long during school hours - either one. It doesn't make much of a difference.
I live in a cul-de-sac and I experience that whipping around all the time. Although today I did
have to notice that one student - a group of them came by and they saw my son out there and they
were going slowly. They stopped. They waited until he got off the road and eased on out. So
whoever that was I thank you. I hope we can come up with some sort of a solution because I
don't just want something to happen in our neighborhood and have all these cars end up in
Foxridge or elsewhere. You have to sort of make it a large enough area to prevent them from
driving to school to begin with or putting the cars just on the property."
Mr. Glen Berry, a resident of 209 Rosemeade Place stated, "Not to reiterate some of the issues
that were brought up but certainly the general parking in itself is an issue. Going hand in hand
with that is the loitering, littering, reckless driving, tobacco, speeding and the necking is all part
of the deal. I'd like to talk about the safety aspect and not only for the residents but certainly for
the teenagers themselves. There was an article - there was a letter to the editor in the Washington
Post on the 18th of May and it was in reference to the article that was written by Liz Seymore on
May 4th as it related to the "pressed for parking" issue. It was in the metro section. The fellow
that wrote that is named Michltel Martin and he is a representative of the school bus information
council in Albany. The jest of the article was that it is indeed uncool today to ride a bus. How
that transpired over time no on seems to know. But the crux of the article was trying to advise
parents that when children drive to and from school in a private vehicle that they increase the
safety risks of those children.' This is a very pointed point that in the Washington area alone at
least 7 students have been killed in the last 9 months while driving to or from school in a private
vehicle. No child has been killed who had been taking the bus in that same time period. The
suggestion is that local government, schools and parents get together and try to resolve this issue.
The real concern is for the 42 children that live in Catoctin Chase. Those 42 children are all
under the age of 15. So most of those children are home prior to the high school letting out. It
almost seems that the children have become prisoners in their own home prior to the high
schoolers making the mad dash out of the neighborhood. I think that the parents are feeling that
we are yet losing another element of control in trying to protect our children. I want to take you
back about a year ago there was an incident in Manassas where a fellow in a van entered a
neighborhood and tried to abduct a young child. Fortunately that incident had a positive ending
where he was unable to abduct her and he was later caught and then prosecuted. The point that
I'm trying to make is help us regain the tools that we need to monitor our neighborhood. Today
we have no clue of who suppose to be in our neighborhood and who is not suppose to be. When
people go away on vacation we don't know a strange car from a high schooler's car. So it makes
it very difficult for us to monitor the goings on in our neighborhood. I'm asking you to help us
get those tools so we can do what we do best and that's to protect our children. I'm telling you
the problem is not going to get any less annoying then it is today. But my real concern is that I
don't know how I face you if there ever becomes an incident because we are all responsible.
And I think that everybody in this room is willing to do what we have to do to meet with the
school system. To meet with you folks but we're just not getting the sense that the school system
is willing to address our issue because they think in fact that it is our issue. I'm a little dismayed.
! thought permit parking would probably be the answer and I think I need to understand the
legalities of it a little bit more. My brother happens to be the town manager in a small town in
New Jersey and permit parking was the answer for the residents that lived near a hospital there.
So I need to pursue that more as to why we can't have that here. My concern is that permit
parking offered at a dollar value to residents and students will not lessen the burden from the
standpoint if you see the cars on our street we're talking porches, Mercedes Benz, brand new
pick up trucks, sport utility vehicles. I don't think $200 is going to be an issue for them.
Anything you can do to help us will be greatly appreciated. I assure you we will work with you
in any way we can."
Mr. Olin Johnson, a resident of 406 Belmont Drive stated, "we live on a cul-de-sac and are
concerned about safety as well. If a fire truck had to come in there it could not get in and turn
around with those cars. Even the trash trucks have to come in and jockey around. It is very
difficult. Most of the kids don't know how to park on a radius. Whenever the car stops they get
out and leave it there. I have seen occasions where you could almost park another car between
them and the curb. Sometimes kids will leave their car 2 or 3 days before they pick it up. ! seen
this. They bring it come to school and may not pick it up for 3 or 3 days and the car will sit
there. Safety for the emergency equipment is a big concern of mine. The permit parking I
thought was the answer but apparently it is not with this legal a~Pect of it. The trash is another
big thing. We have one student that just about every morning you know what he had for
breakfast because the egg McMuffin wrapper, the bag and his soft drink sits there on the corner
of my lawn. Since the street sweeper doesn't come through very often the trash ends up in my
yard because the storm drain from the street empties into my lawn. Hopefully we can get some
help."
Ms. Joanne Sulak, a resident of 405 Tearose Place stated, "I think most of my neighbors in both
of the neighborhoods who have spoken have pretty eloquently displayed for you what most of the
problems are that we are facing and I agree with all of them. I have a 5 year-old and a 7 year-old
and I'm also concerned when people peel out as they leave the neighborhood - for my kids being
in the way. The one thing that no one has mentioned that's also an issue for me is their fowl
language that very often accompanies them speeding out of the neighborhood. One thing I
wanted to more specifically address, however, is the issue of the mail delivery. Very often our
boxes are blocked as Mr. Axeman mentioned to you before. We're on city route number 12. Its
a designated, mounted route. That means the driver is not supposed to leave the vehicle to be
able to access your box. I have spoken to the carrier. She has complained on numerous
occasions to her supervisor who has spoke with the principal of the school who basically says
'sorry but no help for you there.' She has recommended to me to call the Post Mistress to see
what we might do. It turns out that Mrs. Haddock, the Post Mistress of Leesburg, says that there
are regulations in place regarding the blocking of mounted mailboxes. So the Post Office can say
to us 'hey this is substantially delaying our delivery. Your repeatedly blocking these boxes - so
if it takes us X much more amount of time to deliver your mail we're just not going to do it.' Its
not the neighbors who are blocking the boxes. At least in my neighborhood we all have
driveways. So most of us park there. That's just one more issue that I wanted to bring to your
attention and elaborate on a little bit more. Everybody else has pretty well spoken about the
other things I'm concerned about. I too am sorry to hear that the permit issue seems like one that
won't be a solution. I was hoping to request that you do that on behalf of our neighborhood."
Mayor Clem stated, "in all due respect we tried the permit parking on a street here in town that
was having a lot of problems and we just threw a bluff. That's all it was. It did not work. It
created more problems then it was worth. But going in we knew we were really walking on thin
ice but we had to try something. It was not successful." A lady from the audience asked, "why
was it not successful?" Mayor Clem "it was not enforceable. You couldn't get enough permits
out. That was the problem. People had guests. Lady, "why was it not enforceable? Why
wouldn't the police department enforce something that we ??? and say its not allowed?" Mayor
Clem, "they just could not enforce it. A lot of the people that - they had more complaints after
that then we did before. A lot of people were coming as guests and they ended up being harassed
by the police department. So we finally just said its not worth it. But we did get the problem
resolved. It took care of itself. This is not going to take care of itself."
Councilmember Umstattd stated, "in relation to access to driveways and mailboxes. I know on
Foxridge Drive we painted the curb yellow to restrict parking near where the trail crosses
Foxridge Drive. Could we have the town go in and paint sections of the street yellow within a
certain distance of people's drives and also within a certain distance of their mailboxes. That
woUld enable us to have the police tow any vehicles parked in violation of that yellow curb."
Mayor Clem, "in all due respect. I've been out there 2 or 3 days on various times to look at the
problem. We'd end up painting all of Tearose or painting the whole neighborhood yellow.
That's the problem."
Carroll Howard a resident of 401 Tearose Place stated, "I'm somewhat of a rarity around here
because I'm bom and raised in Leesburg. I've been around a long time. I used to be a lifeguard
at the old fireman's pool before they closed it down. I went to LCHS and I've spoken at length
to a number of people. Some of the people sitting before me. Mr. York, Ms. Webb. I've spoken
to the Post Mistress. I've spoken to the other town mayor. I've spoken to 3 people in the police
department and frankly I know that I've spent a lot of my time and some of it very frustrating
trying to find a solution to this problem. I know the other homeowners in my neighborhood have
also spent a lot of their own time. I also used to live a long time ago in Prospect Hills and I know
they are having the same problems so I guess I'm covering two zones at the same time. Both
neighborhoods very close to the high school. As I see it there are 3 main problems. First and
foremost is the safety of our children in my neighborhood. I'm an old guy with young kids. I've
got a 5 year-old and a 7 year-old and frankly its a war zone out there during these high school
rash hours. Like my neighbors, I'm afraid to have my kids out there simply because its a small
numbers of the kids who are maybe violating the speeding limit and making a problem for the
others. That's generally the case. Its not everybody. Its probably just a small number of them.
But frankly I haven't been able to find out which ones are actually doing it. But its scary and it is
an accident waiting happen. I sure don't want to read about the injury or death of some small
child in the metro section of the Washington Post. I'm sure no kid driving a car in our town
would want to have that on his conscience. So that's a big problem. The second problem is the
mail delivery. I talked to Mr. York and he solved my problem. I don't know if its a problem for
the rest of the neighborhood, but the town came out and put a sign up in front of my mailbox that
says no parking from here to the comer. They bolted this sign right to the street light right in
front of my house because the kids were parking in front of my mailbox everyday. Like a couple
of other people have said the Post Mistress said that - and Kathy the mail deliverer, who is such
a nice person she gets out of her track to put the mail in your box when its blocked. But she
doesn't have to do that. She does it because she is a nice person. But they say she doesn't have
to so frankly that's impeding the delivery of federal mail and it looks like there ought to be a law
against that. And last but not least is about once a week - I live right on the comer of Rosemeade
and Catoctin Circle and we all have the problem but I seem to have it maybe more than most
except for the lady who lives right across the street from me because I know once a week she
goes out and once a week I go out with a trash bag and I pick up all kinds of garbage that some of
the kids are leaving. Big Gulp cans. I've even found beer bottles. Now whether they came from
the kids or not, I don't know but its just some of the things you have to pick up are rather
disgusting. I know the town is suppose to maintain/mow like 5' from Catoctin Circle, but all of
the people who have houses that are adjacent to Catoctin Circle we mow it ourselves - most of
us. Its just very disgusting. If you come out there any time you'll see this. I don't know what
the solution is. I'm sympathetic. Like I said I went to LCHS back then we - not many of us
drove cars. There weren't ca.r,s - no! We didn't drive cars that much and we've got a couple of
baby-sitters that we use and they drive cars and they live close to us. I mean I don't really see the
need for that. It looks like it could be more need generated rather than - you know its such an
affluent society. Some of the cars you see are better than the ones that we have. Its amazing,
Mercedes, and Porches - all kinds of stuff. I'm sympathetic to the kids. I don't know what the
solution is. I would even be in favor of an all out ban. It would be tough on the neighbors but if
that's what its going to take to ensure the safety of the kids - ban them from 7:30 a.m. to 4:00
p.m. and I'll find some place to park. I'll go up to Foxridge and park if that what it takes to make
the kids safe then I'll go up there and if I have a guest I'll say well there's a parking space a
quarter mile up the street. You go up there and park and I'll come get you."
Ms. Mary Pisko, a resident of 207 Primrose Court stated, "I was not going to come to this
evening's meeting because its not affecting Primrose yet, however, I had an experience today that
I wanted to share with you. I generally leave for work at 7:15 in the morning and get home about
4:15 p.m. Today, however, I took the day off to take my mother to the doctor so I got home
earlier than usual to be faced with a very large crowd of teenagers, a police officer sitting at
Rosemeade and Tearose, right at the comer where the stop sign is and as I made the turn - and by
the way I have never had a car accident and I'm 52 years-old - as I made the turn carefully,
suddenly there was a green car staring me in the face. We almost hit head on - on Tearose. That
to me we can't have. It scares me. There are many, many children in that development. We are
all aware that they are around and playing and we're trying to be very, very careful but this is
unbelievable. So please, I ask you to do something."
Mr. Jeff Harrison, a resident of 202 Primrose Court stated, "A great many of the issues have been
raised by many but again we can't by any means over look the fact that if we don't do something
about this situation soon, the level of irritation and annoyance in the neighborhood is going to
create something that's probably render a very unpleasant outcome. One of the things that is
interesting is hearing that the school board and the Town Council members meet simultaneously
at two different locations doesn't help for solving this problem if neither of you are talking to
each other as opposed to amongst yourselves. Secondly, one of the issues that I think contributed
to this was when the high school built a new auditorium and in the process built some new tennis
courts. As a result of that they rendered about 50 parking spaces completely useless. And I'm
sure its the same people that say 'they're not parking on my field.' But its interesting that they
had that right and the contributing taxpayers had no say whatsoever. We realize that as a result
of that and as a result of the building that are going to go up, people like Mary who until today
were not affected, will be very soon. We all came here with a great deal of encouragement about
the idea of permanent parking until we heard the details. So we've talked amongst many of the
commentors' - times have changed, people are driving cars today when that wasn't the issue in
the past. Then if the counsel for the legal aspects of the town realizes there is a problem with the
law then these times that have changed need to change the law. If we can get parking in our
neighborhood that says for guests and residents only and there's a law change required, we'd like
to see that. I think part of our frustration equally is the fact that we've been fighting this issue for
over a year and a half. Mr. York, your predecessor, I think, everyone in our neighborhood had
probably 5 or 6 daily conversations with. It got us no where. Our biggest concern is that this is
escalating to the point where the ire and irritation of people and the insolence of the students
themselves because they're irritated with our reactions to th~m is going to flame up into
something that's going to be out of control. Even the police have come to the point where they
won't do anything to students anymore because the students know the law. In fact they're
dealing now with a very savvy bunch of people that realize they can pull up into the
neighborhood, do what they wish and get away with it and for all practical intents, pardon the
expression - flip the police off, It doesn't bother them one bit. The concern about the parking
permits being available to everybody was not anything that I think any of us understood until
tonight. We came with a lot of encouragement but we leave with about as much outrage as they
pull on us everyday from 7:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. The biggest concern we have is that my family
and the families of all of my neighbors again, are contending with the fact that our small children
pretty much in jeopardy and not by anybody deliberately at this moment in time creating a
disturbance with them but indirectly because of their being teenagers, desiring to get in and have
fun with their friends and do whatever - its going to create a situation that I think we'll all end up
regretting. I guess part of our concern, for whatever its worth, is that the school administrative
people have really offered little assistance in our neighborhood. They have commented that they
are suppose to be in some way, shape or form policing the activities of the students after school.
I've never seen one person. I have the luxury of having an office that I can operate out of my
home. I do have an outside office but from time to time I can be home so I can witness a lot of
the fact that we don't know who in the neighborhood belongs there any longer. We wouldn't
know if someone came in to walk away with somebody - if there was anyway to prevent it. We
love the neighborhood we live from the perspective that its one of the prettiest and nicest
positioned neighborhoods in the Town of Leesburg but my concern is that if we're forced to give
up on it and walk away from this because of bureaucracy then we're going to have 40 empty
homes, 40 less taxpaying contributors to the base here and a nice parking lot of a high school.
But it won't do us a lot of good if that's what we're all forced to do and that's certainly not what
anyone of us want to do and our biggest concern again happens to be for the safety of both our
families and children, the residents of the neighborhood and subsequently the safety of the
students. Because like I say this is escalating and its escalating to a point of serious concern.
The level of tension that now exists between student and neighbor is so high that its at its melting
point, I think at this moment in time. Obviously with some cooperation, if there's any to be had,
with those that operate the school side of this issue and maybe a little bit of flexibility in their
thinking about where they can put cars on a temporary basis - that would be certainly assistance
to the issue. If they're not parking up at the Foxridge Park - that obviously is doing non of us any
good. We realize our proximity to the high school is a lot more attractive to them then that
particular location. Again, it sounds like the school is really in the way as well and so if we're
faced with a level of choices that say permit parking that gives us no real privacy - no parking at
all which gives us a great deal of inflexibility or pursuing some legal alternative to a standing law
or code or whatever that happens to be on the books then we'd certainly like to encourage that
because I think it could be something helpful. That doesn't solve the school's problem and
obviously when they put 6 more trailers on an existing parking lot - still run to the ones that are
no longer useable but to remain that way and not use the fields then we obviously still have a
concern for that. ! don't think anyone of us are trying to turn our heads on that but to some
degree that's not our problem. We weren't consulted regarding its particular dispensation to
begin with so we'd like to at least voice that issue for what its worth."
Mr. Ed Whitehurst, a resident of 407 Belmont Drive stated, "I think I have come up with a partial
solution to the problem. There must be some sort of ordinance that a street has to be so wide
before you can park on both sides of it. When they park on both sides of Belmont Drive, there's
hardly room for one vehicle to get through. So that's the first place I think we could make a
mark - just no parking on one side of the street. The second thing is that I think it would be
logical for the town, on the parking side, to mark parking places. That way they wouldn't ease in
front of the driveways and that sort of thing and if we could again restrict the number of things or
people that could park and if we wanted to save the places in front of our houses we'd just park
our cars there. But otherwise, we end up with two on both sides of the street in the circle - you
just can't move. If there's ever an emergency of course we've got a problem."
Mr. Cliff Vaughan, a resident of Rosemeade Place stated, "How did we wind up with this
problem? It seems to me that the county made a decision to take an action and as a result of that
action my community now is encumbered. Now we stand before the Town Council of Leesburg
who also don't seem to be involved in the action, asking for relief. I know, Mr. Mayor, that you
asked that we go to the school board meeting and petition the school board to take action to
relieve our community of the parking dilemma that we find ourselves in. But how is that the
state or the Town of Leesburg can allow the school board and the County of Loudoun to create
such a dilemma on a local community? It seems to me that the Town Council should be equally
as outraged about this as the community is. Because you are also being encumbered upon by the
County and the school board. How do they have the right to come into a community to make a
decision on their property - and I know that Leesburg has to provide school property to the
County - there is an agreement that we have with the County - but how is that they have the
authority to make a decision to renovate their property that results in action whereby parking
spaces or anything is given up and the local citizenry have to suffer as a result of that decision.
There seems to me that there are some legal angles that need to be explored here and I would ask
the Town Council and the Town Attorney or the Deputy Town Attorney to look at the legal side
of this issue. What gives the County the right? What gives the school board the right? It seems
to me that they have the responsibility to provide for their facility. They have advocated that
responsibility - they have simply eliminated parking spaces that throw into our community their
cars. ! think that the students would prefer to park closer to school. If they could get a parking
space in the back of the building is where they prefer to be. I don't think they really want to park
in front of my house and then walk to school. I think the County should understand what they
have done to this community and that the town should lean on them from a legal perspective and
say 'you will provide parking spaces for your facility.' As many of you know, I am on the
Planning Commission and I do know that when a developer comes before the town with an
application to develop a project one of the first things we look at is transportation and associated
with that transportation consideration is parking. We are very emphatic when we say that to the
developer that you have an obligation to provide parking onsite for your application. We can't
allow that to spill over into other communities or to other business' parking. I can recall many
applications where we've told the developer just that. Why aren't we telling the County that?
Why aren't we telling the school that? Don't let them push the problem on us. Get it out of the
community. Deal with it fro.n) a Town Council standpoint. Challenge the school board and the
County and hold them accountable. Make them provide that parking. They don't have a choice
as far as I am concerned. I think the community here would be more than glad to go the school
board meeting and say to them that we are outraged by this and we insist that you do something
about it. But we're asking you to join us in that effort. Please do that for us."
Mayor Clem stated, "we recognize that the problem is more towards the western direction.
Rosemeade, Tearose, areas out there and I agree with a lot of things you say and you and I have
known each other for many years but on June 9, 1999, there is a school board meeting. I will go
with you all. Ms. Webb will run this meeting. I'd be honored to go with you and we'll present
that. Likewise, on June 2, 1999, there is a county board meeting and ! will go and represent the
town and ask that you all support me and let's put the monkey on the back where it belongs. We
have a major problem out in your neighborhood there's no doubt about it. I think that Prospect
Hills is not witnessing the in depth problems that you all are having so its hard for people in that
area to understand but what I don't want to see happen is to correct a problem in one area and
shove it over to another. We've got to address it properly and don't think for a minute - I'm
willing to stand with you - fight with you and make it happen. I think that speaks for every
member on this Council. Cliff you know that we are getting ready to turn over 50 acres to the
County for a new high school site and I'm hoping that this Council will support the fact that we
have to put some caveats on that property and one of them will be to make sure that they monitor
all of their traffic and that they are able to satisfy all of the necessary parking and they are going
to project before the year is out. We're being held accountable and its coming out of our pocket
books to buy all these school sites. We go out here and scramble around trying to find school
sites to support all too many kids that are coming in from other areas. Because if we were
addressing just the schools that are needed for our citizens in Leesburg - we don't need any more
schools. Our high school wouldn't be aA filled. Our numbers show that. But when I can publicly
ask for data from the County and from the school board but primarily the school board and can't
receive it - this town is unable to receive that kind of data so we can determine when we need to
satisfy the agreements on the last annexation - you've been there, done that, wore that T shirt -
you know. I'm responsible. But I will pledge my support to you all on June 9a~ and on June 2nd
and I will go and be the first speaker and we'll go in numbers because I think Ms. Webb brought
it out very eloquently earlier - backed up by the support of this Council that we need to get that
information to the school prior to them dismissing for the year. We're bumped up against that
time line right now."
Councilmember Jackson "I rode out there 3 days last week. ! rode through Rosemeade and down
through Belmont where Mr. Johnson and all of them live and I had to back up to turnaround.
Those streets are blocked. Catoctin Circle, ! found 2 school buses parked there waiting for the
evening for them to come back - I don't know where the driver - there was nobody in there. But
they're really impacted in that neighborhood. There is a problem. I hope that before you all
leave tonight that there is something that this Council says that will help you all rather then go
ahead and say 'well you know the Council don't want to help me.' So I hope we can work out
something or try to work out something tonight to satisfy you."
Mr. Ron Kunes, a resident of 210 Rosemeade stated, "I think most of the issues have been fairly
well articulated. My sense is that the fundamental issue in the"end is public safety. With the
small children walking to the bus stop, getting to school. For the drivers - you've had good
descriptions of what the road is like when the parking is up both sides of the street. Its very
narrow and very unsafe in terms of backing out of the driveway. While some of the stories have
been anecdotal, accidents are happening. I live at 210 Rosemeade, across the street from Mr.
Berry and one day when I was home from work during the day, I backed out of the driveway -
while I was backing out of the driveway a student was doing a U-turn in Mr. Berry's driveway
and not seeing me - backed into me. $680.00 worth of damage. Minor accident. The student
was fine and very mature about it. Settled my insurance. The town never hears that. The point is
its a public safety issue. My recommendations would be a little bit of all of the above. What I
mean by that is while I recognize that there is a place for us going to the county board meeting
and to the school board meeting, my experience has been when you have professionals coming
together with a mutual interest to fix a problem it gets fixed. And its a mystery to me why a
representative from the Town Council and the Board of Supervisors and the school board can't
sit down and say 'this is a fine town - its a fine county - its a fine high school, we need some
solutions and if we work together we can bring forward some recommendations. And I would
ask you to do that. There is no reason why when you've got square footage on the grounds of the
school that for the next 3 to 5 year we can't have a temporary parking lot that can be turned back
into a sports field when the critical need gets behind us. Even if we had that, other solutions
should be pursued. I think there are options on these streets. I hate speed bumps but the speed
on the streets is too high and its particularly unsafe with this level of traffic. Some strategically
placed speed bumps which will slow me down as well as student drivers would go a long way to
improving the situation. Painting the sections of the curb by the mailboxes. These homes are
designed with the mailboxes where 2 houses are adjacent so they're not evenly spaced. That
would probably cut down by a good 1/3 the number of parking spaces. It would inconvenience
the homeowners but it also would reduce the volume of parking on the street. Mr. Whitehurst
also recommended also some limited signs that would say 'no parking here.' So I think we could
control how many cars are parked on the street and both the homeowners as well as the students
could live with that. Finally, I don't know all the legislation - I think all of us were surprised by
some of the parking permit observations - we would only ask that that be revisited. I know in
Colonial Williamsburg which has a large private community and they are smaller streets because
they are a lot older for obvious reasons have tremendous parking problems with the students at
the College of William and Mary - with tourists. They have permits on selected streets. The
homeowners pay an annual administrative fee to help defray the cost of that program. They are
limited to the number of permits they are allowed - its 2 permits per house. So obviously the
homeowners have some limitation as well and when you go to visit somebody in Williamsburg
and they're staying over night in their home they park their car some place else and if they're
good host and hostess they lend you your parking pass and you park on the street and if your
smart you return it to them before you leave. So all I'm saying is that there is a way to make
permit parking work even on public streets. I'm not an expert on the law but I think its worth
another look see that's why my suggestion would be all of the above. The county board, school
board and Town Council working together for recommendations and the others which I won't
reiterate."
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Mr. Aaron Norsessi stated, "I'm not a resident of this neighborhood. I have good friends who
live'them and right or wrong doesn't have an address. I'm going to tone this down a little bit
because I read in your instructions things about demeanor so. This town is developing so quickly
that this parking situation is one of several scenarios that we're starting to look like Jethro from
Beverly Hills where we're growing out of our jeans and our shirts and all the seems are splitting
and you know growth and development is inevitable but there are certain sectors of people who
end up carrying the brunt of this growth and development and sometimes its not fair. I think the
person that hit on something that I think is the most important as a non-resident of this
neighborhood but as an observer - I'm there a lot. I see the kids playing in the streets, is my
friend Jeff Harrison who I never knew until this evening was such a good speaker and everyone
speaking here tonight has been very polite - very eloquent and that's all well and good in
chambers such as these but them is a sense of urgency about this but I think only Jeff has touched
on tonight. This is more than being about cars and parking in a residential neighborhood. I'm a
story teller. I'm a writer. I'm working on a book right now and I see things with a beginning, a
middle and an end - no metaphors tonight though and everybody is describing what exists right
now. I see what is going to happen either later this spring or next fall. Something bad is going to
happen. I'm not overstating this and I'm not trying to provocative and I think you know that. I
produced health education videos for years and have worked in some real nasty areas in New
York City, Brooklyn, the South Bronx and let me tell you some of the nastiest things that I've
ever seen happen happened in the affluent suburbs in Long Island. Where the kids grew up
thinking that they could get away with everything. They had the Porches and the Mercedes, they
had weapons in their cars. Something bad is going to happen. We live in a culture of violence
where bad things happen for no reason. Here there is an issue. I've been there. I've been on the
streets. I've talked with my friends and their neighbors. Kids are cursing out adults. Adults are
cursing out kids. There's been talk about slashing tires, burning cars, throwing rocks through
windows. Everyone's being very polite and kind tonight but this is a bad situation. Something
is going to happen there is no mistake about it. And sooner or later, a small, innocent child is
going to get run over and killed. It is going to happen this spring. It is going to happen next fall.
It is going to happen. There is no doubt that it is going to happen. When I was 6 years-old I ran
between two cars and got run over by a truck. Kids do this. He was an old Cuban neighbor of
mine and he was doing 10 mph and he broke my leg in a few spots. These kids don't drive like
that and kids are going to run out into the street. This is going to happen. So before this happens
I see a lot of intelligence here in the Council and Mr. Mayor. I'm sure there is a lot of creativity.
I also see some confusion and I feel a little sense of impotence because of bureaucracies and
laws. I've never been involved with politics - I don't know. I do know that there is a tremendous
sense of inertia involved here where things have to move slowly but this is not something where
you can move slowly. Something, Mr. Jackson said it, something has to be done tonight. You
have to tell these people something tonight like next week signs are going up. Put signs up that
work half way - do something for them and when you draw up your list of priorities to find the
solution - these high school kids with their cars - the kids who are trashing the streets and
speeding all over the place and what values and morals that they are getting out of TV and who
are disrespecting these adults who are taxpayers, who have sunk their life savings into these
homes, making their investments, who deserve to live lives without fear and intimidation and
that's what exists on these streets over here. I don't live there so I could watch it but I don't live
with that kind of intimidatiofi. You better be sure that these kids with their cars are on the
bottom of your priority list. The residents of these neighborhoods, these parents and these
children deserve to live in a community where the elected and appointed officials support them
in their efforts to live common, peaceful lives."
Mr. Rich Green, a resident of 222 Rosemeade stated, "basically I am against the parking permits.
We pay an awful lot of money to live in those houses and I really don't think parking permits is
any kind of resolution. ! hear an awful lot of these people crying out but I'm hearing no
solutions. Come on guys, lets get down to business here and lets come up with a solution. I
mean everybody's got problems but lets solve the problem. Lets not stick a Band-Aid on it and
just be done with it. That's not going to help any. I agree with Mayor Clem that I don't think a
parking permit is going to really do anything but create more havoc. I don't think we have the
police force to try to enforce it. I really think we need other alternative ideas. There is a church
across the street from the school. Have we looked into possibly seeing if we could rent that
space and let the kids pay for that space? There's got to be other alternatives. The money that
we could charge the children for parking permits, we could use usefully. We need to be smart
here. Work smart. Not work harder. Work smarter. I mean I'm not seeing that happening here
and I'm really disappointed that we have no representation from the school board here. I came
here with the full intent that there would be representatives here and there's really no
representation from the school board at all. I'm really appalled that they' re not here standing up
and participating in this occurrence. I drive down the street and not only teenagers, there's
children of all ages and sizes playing in the street. Sometimes I come home and I can't even pull
11
in my driveway and its not just high school kids. I mean its kids of this small and this big and all
over the place. I mean when I was a kid we didn't play in the street. We went in the field and we
played in the field. We played in the parks. That doesn't happen around here. I don't
understand why. Children, little children that are out - I don't know how you guys do it but when
I was little I lived out in the country and I didn't have to be looked at but when you live here in
the city and I really think you need to take care of your children. If your going to let them out
then you really need to go out and take care of them. They're too small to be running around city
streets, playing in the streets, even the children. We have a much larger problem here then what I
think a lot of people - I don't see us addressing the problem. Lets solve the problem. I don't see
that on the table at this point."
Mayor Clem, "I understand what you are saying but to solve a problem it can't be one sided.
You' ve got to have the cooperation of the Loudoun County School Board and Loudoun County
government themselves. I'll talk to you about that in just a second."
Mr. Bill Zawacki a resident of Chesterfield Place stated, "although I don't live right next to the
high school I think I have perhaps a suggestion that might get something - get the ball rolling. I
don't know how possible it might be but if a verbatim transcript of this public hearing could be
forwarded to each member of the school board, to Dr. Hatrick, to Dr. Starzinski and perhaps even
the Board of Supervisors, at least they will become aware of the feelings of the people who have
spoken here tonight and perhaps will begin' to recognize that there is a problem and that there's
got to be some kind of a solution."
Councilmember McDonald, "I want each and everyone of you to know that many hours Ms.
Webb has put in on this and the Mayor and has kept this Council fully aware of that problem. I
know - if you think your frustrated think about the frustration that we feel up here. I've probably
been one of the biggest mouths up year yelling about the non-cooperation out of the county and
this is a perfect example of it. If I had Jeff Maged's phone number I'd give it to you right now so
you could call him because he's a school board member and represents Leesburg. We cannot
make the county do anything. We do get their attention when you the citizen, the taxpayer make
your voice known. This Council wishes it could solve this problem and it go away. However,
one of the solutions that's been mentioned, the permit parking is going to create problems for
some of you. You pay enough taxes. You pay more to Loudoun than Leesburg and 98% of your
services come from Leesburg. Its time that they woke up to the fact that one of their schools is
creating a problem in the neighborhood and its their responsibility to you, the taxpayer to
respond to that problem. I know that several meetings Ms. Webb has had with them, the
cooperation's not there its like we're yelling down an empty hall there's no one receiving. But
the way to get their attention is in numbers and I suggest that you - next meeting show up in
those numbers. This full Council - I certainly would sign any petition that you wish to present to
them and be with you as well. But that's what its going to take and they're not listening right
IlOW."
Mr. Paul Harris, "I'm not sure why it could possibly be illegal to limit the number of permits that
are sold. If you tried to limit it by who you were selling it to, I could see how that might be a
problem and that might be what was being said but if for example, this public parking garage,
I'm sure there is only a certain number of permits that are sold in that garage and there are so
many parking places. If its offered to the residents first basically all the permits would be sold to
the residents and that would be the end of that. I think it would be a combination of both, go to
the school board, get them to open up some extra parking and do something with limited permits
and I think you'd solve the problem that way as long as it is legal. Its hard for me to believe that
limiting the number of permits sold is not a legal option."
Mayor Clem, "I think the statement is that we can't have permit parking and I expect our legal
counsel to deliver a letter to us explaining why that is not a type of alternative. I know we want
to claim that they are public streets, I'm not sure that that will hold water. I'll wait until I get that
opinion from her."
Vice Mayor Webb, "In conversations she's had with the Council and she had with us in
committee she - that was not the representation that I understood from her. The representation
was that we could not restrict John Doe who lives in South Riding from applying for a parking
permit on Rosemeade or Tearose or some other street and everybody could purchase a permit but
I don't think that she said that it was not possible to do that."
Mayor Clem, "Okay that's what I want to see in writing. I want to understand it myself because
in the past I've had the town manager tell me, not Mr. York, but the town manager tell me we
could not enter into this kind of thing. I believe it was bothersome to him - that was really the
12
issue. We have adequate police officers that could take care of any problems we had if the
permits are a viable alternative so that's not an excuse. I just want to understand why we can't
have permit parking and once its in writing and sent to us, I'm ready to make a decision."
Mr. Harris, "I understand the concern that if you do that in ours you just push the parking
problem to some other community. That is another concern from your perspective. However, if
we go to the school board in numbers as well and say 'look you need to open up our parking,' at
the same time at least we'll defuse the problems. I think I had 10 kids standing at the end of my
driveway this afternoon and one of them was parked across the end of my driveway. Its not very
long that they are there but its long enough - its half an hour, 45 minutes of little party breaks at
the end of my driveway."
Mayor Clem, 'T ve been there and I' ve seen the things that each and everyone of you citizens are
talking about and collectively it is a time bomb but if you recall one of the graphs that we
displayed shows adequate parking could be made - the kids could back up to the fences of the
football field. It's used on Friday night - so I would love to have someone explain to me why
that is not a good alternative during the construction time. That is something I would expect to
present to the school board and I would hope that this Council will take a serious look at
caveating property that we are going to give to the county for a high school site because I think
its important that we address these things and we address them properly."
Unknown lady, "perhaps taking this first step though in forcing the children out of this
neighborhood would force that issue. What reason do they have to make any decision? It
appears to me that this is a political battle between the two of you and we're the ones who are
sitting here waiting for something to happen."
Mayor Clem, "no Mamm, its not that way at all but you have to understand and I know that's not
the remark you wanted to hear me say but the problem is that I can cure your problem but now
I've pushed it over to another area. If we're going to solve it, we need to take a day or two and
solve it. Right now we are not experiencing problems in Prospect Hills. We're not experiencing
problems on Lee Street or areas like that. But I can tell you - the same thing with Foxridge,
we're not experiencing problems there."
Councilmember Umstattd, "yes we are experiencing problems in Foxridge."
Mayor Clem, "we will now push the problem heavier into Prospect and Foxridge. We've offered
the parking lot and when you've got a child in the rear of Foxridge driving to the front and
parking and walking to the school there is something wrong with this picture and I know its
occurring. But our problem is to sit here and try to figure out how we can solve it once and for
all. It is important that we solve it. We have a time bomb right here in the Rosemeade area, now
I'm going to push that time bomb into Prospect Hills. The limited people I've talked to in
Prospect Hills don't seem to have a lot of complaints. In fact we received a letter from Mr.
Robert Huff on May 21, explaining that they're not having the problems. They've worked with
the young adults and they've had huge success. But as much as I agree with him and support
him, I know what has happened in Rosemeade and areas like that that has gotten further out of
hand than Prospect Hills ever was. You've got a bad situation on Catoctin Circle. It's my
opinion there should not be any cars parked on Catoctin Circle and its going to be limited when
we go along and put those walkways in. We're here tonight trying to solve your problems and
we're very much interested in helping you solve it but please bare with me when I say with this
board that I'm scared that we'll push this bomb over into another yard. Now let's try to solve it
properly and I'm hoping that going to the school board and the county would be the best way to
handle it. The county meets next week."
Vice Mayor Webb,_"one of the questions that has come up here is the issue of the school board
not being here and a representative of the school. I can tell you that I took a notice to the high
school and invited the administration to have a representative not only here tonight but at last
night's meeting on youth. I also met with Mr. Hatrick and chatted with him about the problem
and you all who live on Primrose and Tearose are represented by Harry Brown who is the
Catoctin District on the school board. This is another one of those times guys we need to
remember there's not one representative for Leesburg - there's supposedly 4. Harry Brown is the
Catoctin District who is your representative on the school board. Jeff Maged represents
Leesburg, the Mercer District is Ed Kiley which also is about 33% of Leesburg. The Chairman
of the school board, Joe Vogric and the at-large member of the school board, Wendall Fisher and
all of those people have to hear from you as well as us but we need to have them here. You
know we can invite them, call them, talk to them but if they're not showing up here, we're
limited and I'm willing to send the Mayor over to meet with the school board and to talk about
13
this but quite honestly one of the comments that came to me from the school board
administration was 'if the board of supervisors cuts the budget on building schools what am I
going to eliminate first. Am I going to eliminate classrooms or am I going to eliminate parking.'
It is there problem but let me also say this, when the school expanded 3 years ago on their
existing site, it came before the Planning Commission parking was reduced when that school was
expanded when those six tennis courts were put on the back and our zoning ordinance - it
certainly didn't come forward to me on Council that that zoning ordinance was inadequate in
terms of the number of parking spaces that are out there on that school site. So quite honestly
that zoning ordinance needed to be addressed then. It wasn't addressed and here we are now
with temporary trailers which we have no obligation to address parking for temporary trailers
because there "temporary." So we have to address that problem not just with what's going on
with LCHS but when we build the next two schools in this town we've got to be sure that we put
a requirement on the school that they provide adequate parking that's realistic and its not the
adequate parking that was created in 1953 when LCHS was built because when I went to school
there we weren't allowed to drive until you were a senior."
Mr. Carroll Howard, "you in your own words correctly acknowledged that this problem is like a
time bomb and of course we don't want to defuse it to the degree that its not a problem in our
neighborhood but then push it over to Prospect, or Foxridge or Ashton Downs but one solution -
we're here to find solutions and it is a real problem that this thing could possibly explode
tomorrow or the next day I mean you never know things happen. Mr. York, if I remember
correctly did you not say that one thing that could be implemented immediately would be signs
posted precluding parking for certain hours like 7 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. and then 3:00 p.m. to 5:00
p.m. Could that be done effectuated immediately in the affected neighborhoods? Mr. York
stated, "I have to admit Mr. Howard you may be confusing me with Steve Brown. I don't think
I've ever had the pleasure of talking with you. Mr. Howard "yes you have. On the phone, yes
you have." Mr. York, "okay. Well I'm sorry I can't recall the conversation specifically but."
Mr. Howard, "but earlier this evening I mean, did you or did you not say that you could, the
town, put up signs immediately precluding parking from a certain time frame. Mr. York, "as far
as I know we could put up no parking signs right now without any authority other than the fact
that I think the Council would certainly want to approve that but we do have the authority to do
that. Yes" Mr. Howard, "well that would be a short term solution in that obviously these
students are parking in our neighborhood and Prospect Hills because they are adjacent to the high
school. They don't go to Foxridge because it is too far to walk. Now if you put these signs up
saying 'you can't park here, you can't park there,' then they will have to make a decision how far
away do I want to park. Is it worth me walking a mile to drive my car to school. I would think
not and maybe this would get the point across that we would get some of these needless drivers
off the road and that may send a signal and certainly until something could be worked out with
the school board maybe by getting the parking on the unused athletic field, at least that would
maybe defuse a potentially dangerous situation violent possible situations. Certainly it would
also maybe help keep our kids safe at least until the end of the school year and until the early part
of next year."
Ms. Patti Nelson, "we need more contact. We've been working on this. Mr. York on March 23,
1999, my friend Sylvia Harris called you and said, 'I need you to tell us about permit parking.'
We get ourselves - you know we're looking for solutions. I need you to know that I am so
committed to solving this problem and I need more help. You know I don't need to make a call
on March 23 and then come to this meeting thinking that we have a possible solution and then
find out oh its not going to work. I don't need to find out now that we need to go to the school
board. I would have gone a month ago. So I am asking you to help us more - solve this
problem."
Ms. Buttery_, "with respect to the numbers that are parking in the neighborhood are these folks in
essence repeat customers? Do you see the same faces day in and day out? Ms. Nelson "I see
some of the same faces and then I see new faces. There are more than 30 cars."
Ms. Kelly Gower stated, "there's one thing that everyone has missed this evening and I call it an
opportunity - we're talking about these kids and a violent times have been brought up this
evening. I would hate to see something drastic done right away as a short term Band Aid thing to
go in there and put signs while the school board, the county and the town are trying to figure
something out. We're going to get some kid - somebody said that a lot of these kids are
reasonable but you can have the smart kids that are - I would hate to see one of those smart kids
walking to school frustrated with an AK 47 to express himself about the parking situation. One
of the things - there's not going to be one solution that's going to solve all of this. Just like the
gentleman who had the list with all of the above. Well part of that all of the above should be
some kind of team, some kind of group, some kind of counsel going in and working with these
14
kids. I mean we've got a situation today where we've got these kids and actually you know the
problem started a long time ago they've evolved into these attitudinal young adults that really
have no respect for their community and things that are going on. We have boomers and GenX, I
wonder what we're going to call these kids. But I think in order to sort of provide a diplomacy
here and also for the kids coming up in Junior High that are coming we need some kind of
community, some kind of leadership going on with these kids. I am flabbergasted that there are
no teenagers here tonight and that says something about the idea of community here. Part of the
solution, permits whatever, kids are part of this. The homeowners are talking about the residents
and all the problems that these kids are causing well obviously these kids don't realize that
they're a problem - if you see a kid throwing his McDonald's wrappers - when that kid comes
home I'd go out there and hand him a bag. We also have a proactive responsibility to these kids.
We can't just tell them how its going to be whether you like it or not. We are going to generate
some violent reactions from these kids if we do that."
Mr. Dooney, a resident of 204 Rosemeade_stated, "I think we need action tonight and I
understand the concern about doing anything radical but I wonder if we can propose perhaps
closing half the street. I don't think your going to get focus or attention until you do something
like that. So if you close half the street I think people will then look at this issue and create some
dialogue that we need to have among the different groups. And I think it might be a next step.
And so you did it for a month. School is out in mid June. Maybe if you closed half of
Rosemeade and closed off Tearose for the next month. It would start the process."
Unknown Lady, "for the sake of this lady, these children are very much aware of this problem. I
have had encounters with these children and they know and they dare me and I assure you that I
am not lying to you. They stand on the street and watch me. The police have told me - do not
confront these kids. That's scary."
Mayor Clem, "Mamm, I have a funeral home and I can tell you that I have a couple of walls
down there that we can paint today and tomorrow they're skateboarding on them and you can ask
them politely and ! try to extend the hand of fellowship - the Olive Branch, whatever you want to
say. I don't care how nice you are -your going to get the message. Now I would hesitate to
challenge them. I know what the end result is going to be. So you know you try to keep
everything calm and it is a volatile situation on dealing with some of these kids. They know their
tights better than you or I."
The Mayor closed the public heating.
Mayor Clem, "I think the kids that Ms. Webb, myself and others that have dealt with have been
great young adults. But they are probably the young adults that are not creating the problem. I
know I was on student council years ago - I wasn't one of them causing the problems but
naturally we were the ones that they came to with their discussions and issues that had to be
resolved. So that is the first problem and last night we had a meeting at the Leesburg Volunteer
Fire Company to address issues of the type of violence that we saw or heard about in Colorado.
That building seats or would handle 330 people so it didn't take me but a minute to figure we had
about a third of the capacity - 130 at best. When you took out the media - when you took out all
the government officials to include town, county, school board people - who was the fourth one I
wanted to take out - but whatever it was - you didn't have the parents. And I think we all
acknowledge - now there was a lot of parents there but we all agreed I believe that the problem
starts at home. And the problem that you are witnessing today is the school is the home. And
the school is not trying to work with the county or the town to bring resolution to this problem.
We don't have the rights to go out here and do some of the things that we would like to do to
stop this problem. For every action there is a reaction. But we just have to make sure that what
we do is best for all. And I am going to be leaning on our attorney to provide us in the next day
or so the legal information that we need so that we can go ahead and take action and I said a few
minutes ago we have the school board meeting on June 8. Its on a Tuesday night and on June 2,
county board meets in the daytime. ! know that's inconvenient for a lot of you but I'd be happy
to go and anyone who'd like to go with me its about a 9:00 meeting in the morning hour and I'll
make sure that we are signed up to speak. Normally on public hearings and this one won't be
treated any differently - when you have this type of turnout and the need to come to proper
resolution we generally keep these kinds of public hearings open for 10 days for any comments
that any one wants to make. That does not prohibit this Council for taking some kind of
intermediate step. But we've collected a lot of data tonight that really needs to be digested and I
don't think its fair to you all or to your neighboring citizens for us to come to any what we think
to be a solution tonight. Because we've been inundated with a lot of good information here and I
just want to make sure that that decision whatever it is is the right one and that we have a huge
success by implementing whatever that decision may be."
15
MOTION:
On motion of Zoldos, seconded by Councilmember Umstattd, to have a memo signed by the
Mayor from the Town of Leesburg attached to it would be a hard copy transcript of this public
hearing tonight to be sent to the Loudoun County School Board, the Board of Supervisors, all the
Loudoun County High School students and parents and anybody else that is associated with this.
In addition, establish a meeting as soon as possible between the neighbors, the entire
neighborhood, school administrators, students, their parents council members, the Board of
Supervisors, the school board so that we can meet together and air these issues once again and
come to a negotiated solution.
Councilmember Zoldos, "there were a lot of good ideas expressed tonight but I think we' ve got
to have - what I see tonight is we have one half of the equation and the other half of the equation
is missing as far as ! am concerned. I think we need to bring that other half of the equation in
and in fact with that we can come to a solution."
Councilmember Umstattd offered a friendly amendment, to add to the list of recipients, Senator
Bill Mims, Delegates May and Black. Councilmember Zoldos accepted the amendment.
Councilmember McDonald, "that memo should address some very particular comments made by
the public tonight that do - the comments made in reference to the threats, rocks, etc., slashing
tires."
Councilmember Zoldos, "the purpose is to discuss these issues, maybe some of the suggestions
like parking - no parking on one side of the street - issuing permits is another issue and so on and
so forth. And I think we need to do a little research to - as was suggested perhaps amend the law
- the legislation or the ordinances or whatever is necessary. But there are solutions to this and !
concur that it is an immediate concern of ours but yet ! don't want to take any action that is going
to cause this thing to just shift from one segment of the population to the other. That's why !
think we need to have all the parties, all the players present, where we can all speak together at
the same time and try to come to a conclusion."
Vice Mayor Webb, "also include in Friday's packet from staff, the legislation that the City of
Alexandria, the Town of Vienna, and the City of Williamsburg use because they do successfully
incorporate permit parking in all of the residential neighborhoods in the historic district of
Alexandria, in several districts in Vienna and certainly in Williamsburg. So I'd like to see
whatever legislation they've included there in the Commonwealth of Virginia so if they can do it
we can do it. But we need to see what their legislation is."
Mayor Clem, "I think we need a complete package. I am not really - I'm going to support Mr.
Zoldos' motion but I think we are bringing in too many people to include our elected officials in
Richmond. I think we first have to determine whether or not we can control this legally - if not
then bring them in but as much as it is a good motion I will follow it and I will call for the vote."
Councilmember Buttery, "I think the motion is well taken, the only point I would like to bring up
is if I understood you correctly with respect to providing transcripts of the entire hearing this
evening to the board of supervisors, the school board members, Delegates May and Black,
Senator Mims, but also to all the students." Councilmember Zoldos, "Yeah, I think its critically
important that those parents of those students who are parking there understand what the
residents here are feeling." Councilmember Buttery_, "just in the way of a friendly amendment, I
agree with everything but provide 1400 copies, approximately." Councilmember Zoldos, "Well, I
was suggesting that the school board reproduce that - is what I was thinking." Councilmember
Buttery, "Oh well that's fine."
Vice Mayor Webb, "! can almost guarantee you that if they won't produce a one page memo
about last night's meeting and tonight's memo, they are not going to reproduce probably what's
in essence 30 pages of transcript."
Councilmember Buttery, "However, possibly one middle ground issue or middle ground solution
would be - is that we create a synopsis in essence of what the meeting was about tonight and
possibly send it to the Loudoun Raider and if they still print that paper and provide a copy of that
for all the students to read. I was just thinking of the expense with respect to the reproduction of
1400 copies."
Councilmember Zoldos, "Frank, I would think that our local newspapers would print that in its
entirety at least I would hope so."
16
Mayor Clem, "I want the public to know that we don't take this lightly. It is a very serious
situation and we need to take care of it."
MOTION: On motion of Councilmember Buttery, seconded by Councilmember Umstattd,
Acting Chief McVeigh is to provide a police officer to be present in Catoctin Chase
neighborhood during the hours of the morning when the students come to park and also walking
to the school and also in the afternoon.
Vice Mayor Webb asked that the police also be present in Prospect Hills, Catoctin Chase and
Foxridge.
VOTE:
Aye:
Nay:
Councilmembers Buttery, Jackson, McDonald, Umstattd, Webb, Zoldos, Clem
None
7. COUNCILMEMBER COMMENTS
Councilmember Buttery made no comments.
Councilmember Umstattd made no comments.
Councilmember Jackson attended the Exeter Homeowners Association meeting, as well as the
town meeting at the fire house on Loudoun Street.
Councilmember Zoldos announced that the first meeting of the Information Technology
Committee will be held on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 7:00 p.m., in the executive conference
room.
Vice Mayor Webb attended a reception at the Balch Library. She thanked everyone who
attended last evenings town meeting at the fire house. Ms. Webb and Mr. Fitzgerald toured new
airport terminal buildings in Charlottesville and Harrisonburg.
8. MAYOR'S REPORT
Mayor Clem congratulated Mr. Welsh for his retirement from the Leesburg Volunteer Fire
Company. Payne's Caf6 held its annual Poker Run to benefit Muscular Dystrophy. Megan's
Walk was also held two Saturdays ago, benefiting Cystic Fibrosis. Mayor Clem thanked all the
speakers this evening. Mayor Clem received a call from Mr. Uran.
Vice Mayor Webb thanked Public Information Officer Susan Farmer for her hard work in
preparation of the town meeting held at the fire house.
9. MANAGER'S REPORT
Mr. York referenced the written Activity Report.
10. LEGISLATION:
(a) MOTION: On motion of Webb, seconded by Umstattd, the following ordinance was
proposed and adopted, as amended by Councilmember Buttery.
99-0-13 - ORDINANCE - AMENDING SECTIONS 12.1-3, 12.1-92, 12.1-93 AND 12.1-98
OF THE TOWN CODE AND PERSONNEL MANUAL
VOTE:
Aye: Councilmembers Buttery, Jackson, McDonald, Umstattd, Webb, Zoldos, Clem
Nay: None
CONSENT LEGISLATION:
10. (b) through (w) MOTION: On motion of Webb, seconded by Umstattd, the following
resolutions were proposed and adopted.
(b) 99-149 - RESOLUTION - AWARDING A CONTRACT FOR ENTRY DOOR SYSTEM
AT IDA LEE PARK RECREATION CENTER
17
(C) 99-150 - RESOLUTION - APPROPRIATING FUNDS FROM THE GENERAL FUND
UNAPPROPRIATED FUND BALANCE TO THE LOUDOUN MUSEUM IN
SUPPORT OF THE POTOMAC CELTIC FESTIVAL
(d) 99-151- RF~OLUTION
REPLACING THE HVAC
BUILDING
APPROPRIATING ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR
COMPRESSOR LOCATED ON THE FAA AFSS
(e) 99-152 - RESOLUTION - AWARDING A PURCHASE CONTRACT FOR A
PAVEMENT ROLLER
(f) 99-153 - RESOLUTION - MAKING A REDUCTION OF THE PERFORMANCE
GUARANTEE FOR PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS INSTALLED IN EXETER HILLS
SECTION 6A
(g) 99-154 RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING A TIME EXTENSION FOR
COMPLETION OF PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS AND APPROVING A
PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE FOR THE DRY MILL TOWNHOUSE
SUBDIVISION
(h) 99-155 - RESOLUTION - MAKING A REDUCTION OF THE PERFORMANCE
GUARANTEE FOR PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS INSTALLED IN STRATFORD
PHASE B HOPE PARKWAY
(i) 99-156 - RESOLUTION - MAKING A REDUCTION OF THE PERFORMANCE
GUARANTEE FOR PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS INSTALLED IN STRATFORD
PHASE A, SECTION 1
(j) 99-157 - RESOLUTION - MAKING A REDUCTION OF THE PERFORMANCE
GUARANTEE FOR PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS INSTALLED IN STRATFORD
PHASE A, SECTION 2
(k) 99-158 - RESOLUTION - MAKING A REDUCTION OF THE PERFORMANCE
GUARANTEE FOR PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS INSTALLED IN STRATFORD
PHASE B, SECTION 1 & 3
(l) 99-159 - RESOLUTION - MAKING A REDUCTION OF THE PERFORMANCE
GUARANTEE FOR PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS INSTALLED IN STRATFORD
PHASE B, SECTION 2 & 4
(m) 99-160 RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING A TIME EXTENSION FOR
COMPLETION OF PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS AND APPROVING A
PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE FOR WOODLEA MANOR PHASE 5
(n) 99-161 - RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING AN AGREEMENT AND APPROVING A
PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE AND WATER AND SEWER EXTENSION
PERMITS FOR WOODLEA MANOR PHASE 7
(o) 99-162 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING A TIME
COMPLETION OF PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS AND
PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE FOR WOODLEA
1/BATTLEFIELD DRIVE CONNECTION
EXTENSION FOR
APPROVING A
MANOR PHASE
(p) 99-163 - RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER
THE OPENING OF CONNECTIONS TO EXISTING STREETS CONSTRUCTED AS
PART OF EXETER HILLS SUBDIVISION
(q) 99-164 - RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING AN EASEMENT WITH MADISON
HOUSE ASSOCIATES
(r) 99-165 - RESOLUTION - ENDORSING A PRELIMINARY CONCEPT PLAN FOR
FUTURE DEVELOPMENT AT THE ROUTE 621 PARK SITE
(s) 99-166 - RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING THE TOWN MANAGER TO ENTER
INTO A CONTRACT WITH ABACUS SECURITY SERVICES
18
(t)
99-167 - RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING AN AGREEMENT WITH THE VIRGINIA
· DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO CONSTRUCT AN ACCESS ROAD
FOR THE SOCCER/LACROSSE FIELDS AT IDA LEE PARK
(u) 99-168 - RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING AN AGREEMENT FOR COMPLETION
OF IMPROVEMENTS TO ROUTE 653
(v) 99-169 RESOLUTION MAKING AN APPOINTMENT TO THE
ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COMMISSION
(w) 99-170 - RESOLUTION - MAKING AN APPOINTMENT TO THE PLANNING
COMMISSION
DISCUSSION
Ms. Welsh referenced resolution (u) and stated she authorized the change on Page 2 of the
agreement.
VOTE:
Aye: Councilmembers Buttery, Jackson, McDonald, Umstattd, Webb, Zoldos, Clem
Nay: None
11. NEW BUSINESS
(x) MOTION: On motion of Umstattd, seconded by McDonald, the following resolution was
proposed and adopted.
99-171 - RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING THE USE OF THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS
VOTE:
Aye:
Nay:
Councilmembers Buttery, Jackson, McDonald, Umstattd, Webb, Zoldos, Clem
None
On motion of, and duly seconded, the meeting was adjourned at 10:30 p.m.
Clerk of Council
J.~es E. Clem, Mayor
19