HomeMy Public PortalAbout2011_tcmin1115COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Council Chambers, 25 West Market Street, 7:30 p.m. Mayor Umstattd presiding.
Council Members Present: David Butler, Thomas Dunn, Katie Sheldon Hammler,
Fernando "Marty" Martinez, Kenneth "Ken" Reid, Kevin D. Wright, and Mayor
Umstattd.
Council Members Absent: Vice Mayor Wright arrived at 7:36 p.m., Council Member
Dunn arrived at 8 p.m.
Staff Present: Town Manager John Wells, Deputy Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Town
Attorney Jeanette Irby, Deputy Director of Utilities Aref Etemadi, Director of Plan
Review William Ackman, Director of Capital Projects Renee LaFollette, Economic
Development Manager Marantha Edwards, Senior Engineer Anne Geiger, Land
Acquisition Manager Keith Wilson, Project Manager for Design and Engineering Tom
Brandon, Transportation Engineer Calvin Grow and Clerk of Council Lee Ann Green
AGENDA ITEMS
1. CALL TO ORDER
2. INVOCATION: Father John Mosimann, St. John's Catholic Church
3. SALUTE TO THE FLAG: Boy Scout Troop 969
4. ROLL CALL: Showing Vice Mayor Wright and Council Member Dunn
arriving late.
5. MINUTES
a. Work Session Minutes of October 24, 2011
On a motion by Council Member Martinez, seconded by Council Member
Butler, the minutes of the October 24 work session were approved 5 -0 -2
(Wright /Dunn absent).
b. Regular Session Minutes of October 25, 2011
On a motion by Council Member Martinez, seconded by Council Member
Butler, the minutes of the October 25 regular session were approved 5 -0 -2
(Wright /Dunn absent).
6. ADOPTING THE MEETING AGENDA
On a motion by Council Member Martinez, seconded by Council Member
Butler, the meeting agenda was approved as presented by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Hammler, Martinez, Reid, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 6 -0 -1 (Dunn absent)
7. PRESENTATIONS
a. Certificate of Recognition — Achievement of the Rank of Eagle Scout —
Eric Sinclair
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
On a motion by Council Member Reid, seconded by Council Member
Butler, a Certificate of Recognition was presented to Eric Sinclair for his
achievement of the rank of Eagle Scout.
b. St. John's Catholic Church — Construction Update
Father Mosimann gave a brief presentation to Council on the status of the
construction of the new St. John's Catholic Church on Oakcrest Manor Drive.
C. EDC Financial Forum
Jim Sisley, Economic Development Commission, gave a brief
presentation on the EDC Financial Forum that was held September 15 in the
Village @Leesburg and was co- hosted by the owners of the Village @Leesburg
and Sperry Van Ness Commercial Real Estate. He stated they had great
attendance and covered the topics of moving money from capital resources into
the hands of local businesses. He stated it was meant to develop relationships
between local businesses and banks to come up with alternative sources of
funding.
8. PETITIONERS
The petitioner's section was opened at 8:01 p.m.
There were no petitioners wishing to address Council.
The petitioner's section was closed at 8:01 p.m.
9. APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA
On a motion by Council Member Reid, seconded by Council Member Dunn, the
following items were moved for approval as part of the Consent Agenda:
a. Initiating Amendments to Chapter 34, Articles II and III of the Leesburg
Town Code
RESOLUTION 2011 -133
Initiating Amendments to Chapter 34 (Utilities) Articles II and III and
Appendix B of the Leesburg Town Code Establishing New and Revising
Various Water and Sewer Charges and Fees
b. Accepting the Public Improvements, Releasing the Performance
Guarantee and Approving a Maintenance Guarantee for Fort Evans Plaza II —
Battlefield Parkway Extension
RESOLUTION 2011 -135
Accepting the Public Improvements, Releasing the Performance
Guarantee and Approving a Maintenance Guarantee for Fort Evans Plaza
II — Battlefield Parkway Extension, TLPF 2005 -0016
C. Unfunded State Mandates
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
MOTION 2011 -039
I move to authorize the Mayor to send a letter to the Governor's Task
Force for Local Government Mandates
d. Initiating Changes to the Charter of the Town of Leesburg re ag rding
Change in Election Date and Directing the Town Attorney to Notify the Justice
Department to start the Preclearance Process needed to Change the Election Date
RESOLUTION 2011 -136
Initiating Amendments to the Town Part 1 Charter Chapter 2 §2 -2. Town
Council Generally; Mayor; Mayor Pro Tempore; Powers and Duties,
Section 2 -2 Through 2 -3 Concerning the Special Election Date of the
Mayor and Members of Town Council; Adding Section 2 -4 Non - Partisan
Elections
RESOLUTION 2011 -137
To Direct the Town Attorney to Submit Documentation to the
Department of Justice (D.O.J.) to Commence the Preclearance Process as
Required Pursuant to the Voting Rights Act of 1965 with Respect to the
Change in the Election Date from May to November in Even Numbered
Years
Recognition and Support for the Sweats for Vets Program
RESOLUTION 2011 -139
Town Council Recognizes and Supports the Sweats for Vets Program and
Authorizes the Town Manager to Place a Collection Box in the Lobby at
Town Hall
The Consent Agenda was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Hammler, Martinez, Reid, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 6 -0 -1 (Dunn absent)
10. PUBLIC HEARINGS /PUBLIC INPUT
a. Lowenbach Public Input
The public input session was opened at 8:02 p.m.
Willard Walters: Stated he is in favor of opening the road because it is a main
north /south link. He stated some residents of Catoctin speed on other streets in the
neighborhood.
Paul Kreingold, 207 Catoctin Circle, stated that solemn commitments for curb,
gutter, traffic calming and the streets remaining closed until the whole project was
completed were made over many years. He urged Council to keep the commitment
until the project is completed. He stated the argument that the project is now phased so
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
that changes the commitment is flim -flam. He questioned whether those asking for the
road to be opened will be able to trust Council's commitment to them in the future.
Wendy Overton, 217 Catoctin Circle, stated she is a member of the ad -hoc
committee. She stated the neighborhood has waited 50 years for these improvements so
two years is not much of a difference. She read the following letter from Pastor Nichols:
"Honorable Members of the Town Council, let me begin by saying I and the
congregation of Loudoun Baptist Temple appreciate all of the work that has been done
to improve the Lowenbach subdivision. The improvements once completed will make
our community a better place. Throughout the construction, we sought to be patient
and cooperate with the town in every way possible, even though these improvements
have adversely affected our parking, the town has followed through or is in the process
thereof on a promise that was made to our congregation for which we are very grateful.
Over the past several months, there were times when it seemed that the town would not
follow through on its promise which is very discouraging to many in our congregation. I
was proud to report to our families on Sunday that the town is in the process of fulfilling
its promise to Loudoun Baptist Temple. A promise, a commitment or agreement
between two parties is a foundational concept in our American society. Unfortunately,
this concept is being eroded away today. If I borrow a tool from my neighbor and I tell
him that I will return it by Saturday evening, I need to be true to my promise. It does
not matter that my situation changes or that I need to use the tool into next week. If I
am an honest person and respect my neighbor, it is not an option for me to reason that
my neighbor wasn't using the tool anyway, or my need for the tool is more urgent,
important, or reasonable than his. If I am a man of my word, I am bound by my
promise. If conditions change and I need to use the tool longer, integrity requires me to
go to my neighbor before Saturday evening and ask him if he would allow me to modify
my promise allowing me to keep the tool into next week. If I fail to do this, I will put
my neighbor in the position to consider me to be dishonest and not to believe any of my
future promises. If my neighbor does not allow me to keep the tool, then I must return it
by Saturday evening. It is my understanding that the town has also made promises to
the residents of the Lowenbach subdivision. As I understand it, the promise was that
none of the barriers would be removed until all of the work was completed on the
adjacent streets. Lowenbach families have indicated to me that this promise was not
only given orally, but was also put into writing. I realize that some things may have
changed. Different members on the town council, the construction schedule, work on
Catoctin Circle was completed first, etc. It may seem reasonable not to keep the original
promise and to go ahead and open one of the barriers, Catoctin Circle, even though
work on the surrounding streets will not be completed until later next year. As members
of the town council, I would urge you to consider that the very nature of a promise is
that it must be kept unless both parties agree to modify or change the promise otherwise
a promise is not really a promise. It means nothing and it is worthless. I appreciate the
men and women of the town council and I pray that you will do the right thing with
respect to the town's promise to the residents and families of the Lowenbach
subdivision. May God bless you as you lead our town and community."
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Ms. Overton thanked everyone that walked the neighborhood. She stated the
safety of her neighbors is paramount. She stated the other roads are not ready.
Peter Commanduras, 508 Edwards Ferry Road, stated he lives at the corner of
Edwards Ferry Road and Queen Street. He stated he is also the chairman of the ad -hoc
committee and has been involved with the town process since the 1980s. He stated they
are aware that the streets need to be opened to distribute the traffic and share the burden
of traffic. He stated the neighbors of Lowenbach do not want the streets to remain
closed. He stated they do want to carry their equal share of the traffic, but their main
concern is the safety of the residents of Lowenbach and those that pass through. He
stated the ad -hoc committee was set up by the Council to work with staff to come up
with an agreeable plan for both sides. He stated keeping the barricades up will help the
project be completed faster and more safely.
Jim Tyrell, stated the truth is the traffic studies that were commissioned for the
town show increased traffic on unimproved streets such as Prince if the barricades
remain up. He stated deflecting some of that traffic onto Catoctin Circle makes more
sense. He stated keeping all the barricades up until all the streets are completed makes
no sense. He stated the safety argument makes no sense when there will be people using
unimproved Prince Street when they could be using improved Catoctin Circle. He
requested a traffic study to see whether the intersection at Catoctin and Edwards Ferry
would warrant a light in three to six months.
Sharon Whelan, stated people move to Leesburg from Fairfax because they like
__. the quaint older part of Leesburg. She stated she wants the roads open, but she wants
the project to be finished. She stated she is a pedestrian and a cyclist. She stated if the
street is opened up too soon, people will use the side streets to avoid a back up at
Catoctin and Edwards Ferry. She stated Blue Ridge is not safe enough for people to use
because it is easier. She stated she does not want to jeopardize the safety of her
neighbors because people want to get somewhere faster. She stated the town wasn't
built in a year and it will take time to complete this project.
Brian Caney, 412 Blue Ridge Avenue, NE, thanked everyone for their dedication
towards resolving this issue and willingness to listen to the genuine concerns of the
neighborhood. He stated he remains convinced that the barricade on Catoctin Circle
should remain in place until all Lowenbach construction is complete. He stated the
question of whether it is safer to leave the barricade in place or take it down, is the only
argument. He stated based on the information given by the traffic consultant shows
taking the barricades down as the safer alternative, but his personal observation about
the traffic that flows through the neighborhood proves otherwise. He expressed concern
about the conditions on Blue Ridge Avenue as the study does not appear to account for
cut through traffic that will inevitably result from vehicles turning left or right onto Blue
Ridge from Catoctin because of a back up at the stop sign. He stated this will cause
dangerous conditions on Blue Ridge Avenue. He stated there are a large number of
pedestrians including the elderly, children and the disabled.
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Brenda Gilbert, Catoctin Circle, stated while she would like to have the street
open, but her concern is about safety for Blue Ridge Avenue. She stated it is unsafe until
Blue Ridge is finished with sidewalks and lighting.
Rufus Campbell, 319 Catoctin Circle, NE, stated he has lived there since 1962
when he first asked the Mayor and Council about sidewalks. He stated the whole
neighborhood does not have sidewalks, curb and gutter. He stated in 1995 an agreement
was made that all streets would get curb, gutter and storm drains because of drainage
issues. He stated the people in the subdivision behind them have ways to get out of their
subdivision. He listed a number of issues that have not been corrected. He stated they
do not have all the improvements that were promised and a promise is a contract.
Michelle Sommerville, stated she lives in Exeter and takes offense to being
categorized as "one of those people who have to get to the hairdresser on time ". She
stated when her subdivision was built, a promise was made that all the streets would be
finished at the same time. She stated a contract is an agreement that is binding on both
parties as long as there are no material changes. She stated the material change that has
been made is it has taken 10 years to even start the improvements and now they are
piecemeal. She stated that is a material change to the agreement so an amendment must
be made. She stated the amendment should be that Catoctin should be opened as Exeter
does not have a lot of ingress /egress methods. She questioned why those living on
North, Plaza and Marshall should bear all the traffic. She questioned the safety issues
for those residents and Exeter residents. She stated Lowenbach residents cannot live in
their safe, little bubble.
Mary Robarge, Queen Street, stated she decided because she is such an advocate
for town and the businesses. She stated she moved to Lowenbach because it is a safe
neighborhood and the proposed improvements would mirror the sidewalks in the
northwest section of town. She stated her children do catch the bus at Blue Ridge and
Catoctin. She stated opening the barricade will cause a huge back up of traffic that will
attempt to use Blue Ridge to circumvent the back up.
Phil Marshall, Marshall Street, stated he chooses not to be contentious because
everyone is neighbors, but being accused of being a purveyor of sophistry, he is inclined
to submit another idea. He stated the gigantic issue is safety. He stated Lowenbach
residents say they must be safe, but the rest of the surrounding streets do not need to be
safe. He questioned whether Marshall Street can have traffic calming. He stated
Lowenbach is the special child. He stated promises can be broken because things
change. He stated the improvements have made Lowenbach properties more valuable
but were only possible by the increased tax base created when additional homes were
approved in Exeter. He stated that Lowenbach residents are not victims. He stated the
residents of Exeter are as valuable as those in Lowenbach.
Lawrence Schoenberger, 212 Prince Street, NE, he stated that Prince Street is the
ugly stepchild of Lowenbach. He stated the ad -hoc committee has allowed Prince Street
to be the defacto Catoctin Circle. He stated there are no curbs, gutters or sidewalks. He
stated his children had to ride their bikes in the street and stood on a sidewalk -less street
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
to catch the school bus from elementary school to high school and never did anyone on
any of the other streets say it was unsafe. He questioned why anyone would teach their
child to ride a bike in the street anyway. He stated it is unfair to burden Council with
the argument of a "solemn" commitment and promise. He stated that resolution was
with the best of intentions at the time it was made, but circumstances change. He stated
it is disingenuous to attempt to impose emotional blackmail on the Council in an
attempt to keep a street that is safe for its intended purpose and use to remain closed.
Chuck Brittle, Marshall Drive, stated that people are forgetting there were
barricades on Marshall and North Street originally but they are gone now so changes
have been made to the original agreement. He suggested that all the barricades be
removed.
Kim Doman, stated she is not a resident of Lowenbach, but lives on North Street
on the other side of the barricade and is not in favor of the removal of the barricade. She
stated there is no proper roadway or pedestrian safety measures in place that would
warrant the opening of Catoctin Circle. She questioned whether the 100 -200 blocks of
Catoctin Circle are ready for the traffic level. She stated she has gotten up to 40 mph in
the past. She stated the residents of North Street have had to put up temporary traffic
calming devices while the children are playing outside and have not had the option of
speed bumps. She stated Leesburg police officers have not been of much assistance. She
stated back ups will occur at the stop signs and frustrated drivers will bail out on the side
streets of Blue Ridge, Queen and Washington. She stated she is aware that the traffic
study does not support that because a computer does not understand what people will
do. She requested that a barricade be added to Prince Street if that would make it more
safe.
Jeanne Gowan, Marshall Drive, thanked Council for the traffic studies. She
stated she does not want an additional 300 -400 cars going down her street. She stated
she supports opening Catoctin Circle. She stated the barriers can be moved to Blue
Ridge so people cannot cut through.
Gigi Robinson, 207 Prince Street, stated Prince Street residents are happy to see
construction starting and requested that Council do everything it can to lessen the
impact and duration. She stated keeping Catoctin closed allowed for staging and
eliminated superfluous traffic. She stated that Prince and other unimproved streets be
closed during construction to speed the completion of the project.
The public input session was closed at 9:02 p.m.
Anne Geiger: Madam Mayor and Town Council Members, at the September 26, 2011
meeting, where we gave you the history update on Catoctin circle, at the end of the
meeting you all had asked us to do two things, one was to have a public informational
session for the public on the results of the traffic study, then to report the results of the
traffic study and in the mean time, we also had the SRTC, the Standing Residential
Traffic Committee had their meeting and they have recommendations.
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
So on November 2, we had the public informational meeting at Ida Lee. We had about
65 residents there, staff members, Council Members, etc. So, that took care of that issue
that you had asked for. The traffic studies and the counts, again just as a recap in 1995,
the Northeast Leesburg Thoroughfare Study showed on Catoctin Circle an estimated
1500 to 1700 vehicles per day and on the 100 block of Washington, an estimated 1000
vehicles per day. Based on the 2011 Wells and Associates Counts and Projections with
the construction complete and all barricades removed, on the 100 block of Catoctin there
are estimated 1335 vehicles per day and then slightly less on the 200 block and then 765
on the 100 block of Washington, so they are slightly less than what was anticipated in
1995. The take away points from the 2011 Wells Study obviously with Catoctin Circle
and the barricade removed, the traffic does increase to the 1335 vehicles per day that we
saw on the previous slide. On Prince Street with the barricade in place, the traffic
increased in the unimproved condition. There are currently about 800 vehicles per day
using Prince Street in the existing condition and it increases to 1000 vehicles per day
with the barricades staying in place on Catoctin. Queen and Washington Streets, the
traffic does not change substantially without one, two or three of the barricades either in
place or removed. On Blue Ridge with the barricades removed, the traffic decreases
west of Catoctin as you can well imagine and the traffic does not change very much east
of Catoctin between Catoctin and Washington. Again, that is compared to the existing
conditions. The existing conditions shows that there are 249 vehicles per day and it is
about the same with the barricade removed. Woodberry, with the barricade in place, the
barricade on Catoctin, the traffic increases during the Prince Street construction, as you
can imagine. On Marshall with the barricade in place, the traffic increases during Prince
Street construction and on North Street with the barricade in place, the traffic east of
Catoctin increases 50% from about 1000 to about 1600 vehicles per day during the
Prince Street construction. The SRTC met on the 7t' and had several recommendations
that we are forwarding to you... or they forwarded to you about items that you had asked
them to look at. There was an issue about temporary speed cushions and they
recommended no temporary speed cushions anywhere within the Lowenbach
subdivision. They also were not recommending the permanent speed cushions in the
100 block of all of the four north /south streets. They recommended installation of a
four -way stop at Catoctin and Blue Ridge because of a sight distance issue on Blue Ridge
and they recommended installing driver feedback signs on Catoctin and Blue Ridge
because they have found that is the best way for people to know if they are speeding and
they tend to slow down if they find they are. Once those last two items are done, the
SRTC recommends removing the barricade on Catoctin and staff supports those
recommendations. With that, we will open this to any questions you all have.
Dunn: Not really, just to confirm. I think we said last night that those last two items
would be about three weeks to install?
Geiger: Yes, Public Works thinks it would take about that long to install those, yes.
Dunn: You mentioned Queen Street... what's the other one? Washington? Those
barricades. You said ... were you talking about the other barricades on other streets or
where you referring to the barricades on those streets.
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Geiger: The barricades on those streets.
Dunn: If they were removed, you don't see any increase in traffic even on those streets.
Geiger: That is correct. That is what the traffic study is showing.
Reid: I asked a question of just now of the value of the easements for Catoctin Circle
residents and other Lowenbach residents and I was told that they did not give their land
free and clear, that they were actually compensated by the town. Could you give a
ballpark idea of how much money the town spent to pay the residents just of that 100-
200 block of Catoctin Circle for the easements to do all this construction.
Geiger: Can we get back to you on that. I think Kaj is looking that up right now.
Reid: That's fine but I have another question. Because there is concern about the 2005
resolution and we had a work session discussion on this, I think about a month ago,
where I believe Ms. LaFollette mentioned in 2008 during the discussion of our capital
improvement budget, the staff said that because of the flooding and the nature of the
project, that you had to put Woodberry Road first, so therefore there was no way that all
of these improvements in the Lowenbach subdivision could be done all at once, that you
had to basically break the project up. So, I guess my question is, you mentioned that the
Council actually discussed this. I don't know if we have minutes of our discussions on
the CIP, but there was never an issue of the barricade brought up, was it?
LaFollette: No, and the phasing of the project had nothing to do with the Woodberry
Project at that time. That wasn't in play. In 2008, we had the initial preliminary design
done for all five streets. When we did a constructability review, that's when we figured
that doing all five streets at the same time would be too disruptive to the neighborhood.
We took that to the ad -hoc committee at that time and they concurred with that. They
did not want all five streets under construction at the same time. It wasn't until the 2010
CIP that the project was mentioned to be phased as it currently is. That was in the text.
In the 2011 CIP, it shows it specifically phased and it was discussed during our CIP
budget work session when we talked about the phasing of the project.
Reid: But the discussion of the feasibility of how we are going to handle all the traffic
did not come up?
LaFollette: When we phased the project, it was with the understanding that the
barricades would remain in place and we would have to deal with the traffic as it is
during construction.
Reid: Well, I would submit that... and I hate to be a Monday morning quarterback, but
I would submit that collectively we all probably should have done some kind of an input
session at that time on the barricade rather than just leaving it to the very end. Okay?
So, I think that if there is any promise that was broken, it is there; however, it is very,
very clear that it was discussed in a public forum that this project would have to be
divided up. I'm sorry that I got the Woodberry thing confused in all this. So, it was not
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Woodberry that triggered this, it was the fact that this was too big of a nut to swallow
and we had to break it up. So, therefore the project did change. It's just that there was
never a subsequent resolution by the Town Council. So, therefore I think that the
`w Council is well within its rights to leave them up or take them down. Now the question
is about the compensation. Do you have a figure on how much was paid as part of
the ... just the Catoctin stretch for easements?
Keith Wilson: Which section?
Reid: Just Catoctin Circle from North Street to Edwards Ferry.
Wilson: Catoctin Circle, I believe it was approximately $100,000 to $120,000.
Reid: Okay, so therefore $120,000 was paid to the residents on those streets?
Wilson: In various amounts, yes.
Reid: Thank you very much.
Wright: I think I got most of my questions last night, but in the interest of public clarity,
since we had a really, really high budget estimate circulating in the comments, can we
for the record state how much the Catoctin Circle phase of construction was?
LaFollette: The Catoctin Circle phase of construction counting design, easements and
right of way and construction right now stands at approximately $2 million for
construction, design...
Wright: Thank you.
Martinez: I find it hard to have a road that is completely... that is done with curb, gutter,
sidewalks stay closed while another street, Prince in particular, is not developed and
handling that same burden with a narrow road, no curb, no gutters. Having driven
down Prince several times, I find it really hard for me to say keep Catoctin closed and let
Prince continue to have that volume of traffic on an unimproved road. I would also
recommend that the people on Catoctin, that if the barricades are removed, that they
petition the neighborhood, because I think it was 75 percent we need to
enhance... increase the fines for speeding in that neighborhood. I would recommend
that if this happens that the neighborhood does that.
Hammler: Thank you again for your report and everyone's involvement in presenting
the updated traffic counts based on the different scenarios. One of the key points raised
tonight is in fact the safety of Blue Ridge given that it is not improved and you have
pointed out that the traffic counts would not change east and would actually decrease
west of Catoctin. We know we are looking at the recommendation for the four way stop
sign at Blue Ridge, but having walked down ... I thought that was a key point that
Wendy and neighbors provided... kept emphasizing the issue of kind of ... if you will the
narrowness of Blue Ridge ... it's unimproved state. Can you elaborate on the safety
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issues, not just the traffic counts as it relates to the estimated traffic flow if the barriers
are removed? The central issue of safety, not just the issue of the amount of traffic.
Geiger: I think the safety has to do with cars and pedestrians walking along there.
There is currently... again the existing traffic is 249 vehicles per day. When the barricade
is opened, the traffic will be approximately the same. So, it's not any safer. It's not any
less safe with the barricade opened than it is today.
Hammler: Any additional comments based on your research about the back up of traffic
on Catoctin and its impact on unimproved Blue Ridge?
Geiger: This is Chris Turnbull from Wells and Associates.
Turnbull: Good evening. We actually didn't do a queuing analysis. We were doing
link, 24 hour volume counts on Catoctin... well, for all of the streets. If I had to
speculate on the queuing that would occur, you are going to have typical queuing during
peak hours at Catoctin and Edwards Ferry. You are going to have those folks queue at
the intersection and they will be metered by the all -way stop. You probably would see at
any one point in time, four or five cars, maybe queuing at the peak time period.
Probably in the morning because it is a residential development and most of are coming
out. But that queue is a moving queue because they are getting their turn at the all -way
stop.
Hammler: Just kind of anticipating the next set of questions... we won't know until we
know how the traffic is flowing through the four way stop at Edwards Ferry and so
forth, but we need to keep an eye on any traffic movements and any additional safety
issues on an unimproved road. We are trying to maximize safety of using unimproved
roads and therefore, any issue I think dealing with the barricade would have to come up
based on looking at the actual real traffic impacts. I just wanted to make, if I may, at
this point one additional comment. Specifically, Ms. Somerville mentioning the 40
mph. I think it really was in context of the town -wide issues that we are dealing with
about drivers through residential areas, in general. We are seeing that drivers do go past
the speed limits and we are comprehensively looking at that and plan to keep looking at
that as a Council to ensure that we enforce traffic. So, ultimately I think we have taken
a pro- active stance as a Council to anticipate that we are improving the four -way stops
and all the traffic calming. My final key point that I took away from the walk down
Catoctin when Pete and Wendy kind of took us physically down the road, one of the key
initial points that was made was in fact it is a historic road and can never be up to a
standard of say a Marshall. For me personally, when I went through the Planning
Commissioner's certification course, one of the key points that we, in fact, researched is
that we probably need to change the DCSM and not have a Marshall Drive again. We
in fact will have natural traffic calming based on the fact that we have a historic street.
So, I am in fact hopeful, Ms. Somerville, that we won't see those types of traffic speeds.
Butler: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just a couple of quick questions. One, why did the
SRTC not recommend additional speed cushions? Anybody know?
COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Calvin Grow: The SRTC looked at the speed cushions and what we did as staff, is we
looked at the speed. We did speed studies on the 100 block of Catoctin Circle and
Queen and Washington and the speeds based on the manual that they currently have in
the traffic management plan did not warrant the speed humps, but the SRTC did
recommend that a driver feedback sign be installed at the 100 block of Catoctin and also
on Blue Ridge.
Butler: Okay, thank you. Just for the public, can you remind us what the ... we are going
to have a four way stop if this passes on Catoctin and Blue Ridge. Can you remind us
what the status of stop signs is on Blue Ridge and Prince, and Blue Ridge and Queen,
and Blue Ridge and Washington?
Geiger: Blue Ridge and Prince currently has a three way stop that was just installed a
month or so ago. I don't think that there will be four way stops, at least they are not
planned at this point for Queen and Washington. The Queen and Washington will be
the through streets and Blue Ridge will have the stops.
Butler: Okay, so its just a two way stop on the Blue Ridge side?
Geiger: Yes.
Butler: Okay, thank you.
Mayor: Anne, thank you very much. We do have a resolution on the agenda
authorizing the permanent removal of the barricades on Catoctin Circle at North Street.
Does anyone want to make a motion?
On a motion by Council Member Hammler, seconded by Council Member Reid, the
following was proposed.•
RESOLUTION2011 -138
Authorizing the Permanent Removal of the Barricade on Catoctin Circle at North Street
Hammler: Well, I first of all want to thank everybody for all of the participation that has
been involved in what was a question that came forward and increasingly came forward
from a lot of residents, which is the street has now been improved on Catoctin, when are
the barricades coming down? At that point, Council started asking questions of staff
such as okay, when are the barricades coming down. That is when ... there was a level
set and questions and the facts surfaced relative to the original resolution and the natural
question that then came up as Council Members... if in fact something did change,
sophistry oriented or not, based on that original resolution which is that the original
assumption was that the entire project would be done, completed at the same time and
therefore the barricades would come at the same time. That why was Council not
therefore able to find out that we should be phasing also the barricades based on the fact
that it makes sense, certainly to ensure that you are using improved streets, rather in this
case than an unimproved street and diverting traffic on the next one, which is Prince,
which is unimproved. So, for me the central issue really is safety based on the fact that
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Prince is not improved. It will be bearing the brunt of traffic and ultimately that we as a
Council need to ensure the safety of the greatest number of citizens.
Reid: Thank you very much. I struggled with this a great deal. Even though I was not
here in 2005, I do not like it when Government changes its word to folks; however, the
fact of the matter is that even though I believe strongly that the Council and the staff
probably should have had this discussion on the barricades a year or two ago, maybe
even longer than that, the fact of the matter is is that the residents of the street have been
compensated. They have gotten very good improvements and the rest of the Lowenbach
community will be getting very good improvements. I can't see allowing this street not
to be used for two years when Prince and Woodberry will be closed. That is unfair to
residents of North. It is unfair to residents of Edwards Ferry, Wildman, Marshall Drive
and other streets in the area. I am supporting lifting the barricades... it's not an issue of
safety or convenience in this case, but an issue of fairness. I believe that we owe it to the
taxpayers to allow the street to be opened. I think that we have to monitor the traffic
very carefully, because I for one believe that at some point, the folks on this street,
Catoctin are going to be deluged with traffic and traffic is going to back up in front of
their driveways. As a result, that light at Edwards Ferry is going to become more
important, but so will speed humps. I like to call them speed humps, not speed
cushions. I think those will be necessary for the residents of Catoctin Circle. Even
though I won't be on this Council, as of January 1, I strongly urge my colleagues to
consider the interest of those folks when 1300 more cars come down their street. It's not
going to necessarily be a picnic for folks that want to use that street. I don't know about
the cut through situation, but I also feel that Blue Ridge has to be monitored as well.
And, I have an opening on the Standing Residential Traffic Committee, if anybody in
the Lowenbach community, in particular, would like to apply for that because it will
give you an opportunity to have a seat at the table. I do believe that the SRTC did a
very good job and I support their recommendations. I think that helps add to our ability
to vote for lifting the barricades. Thank you.
Dunn: Thank you. I will say that as far as convenience goes, I always try to be early to
the hairdresser and you see what it got me. But the ... I think I agree with Ken as far as
convenience and safety ... and as far as safety goes, I have a nine - year -old. I have a son
with special needs who is 15, so I have to always be aware of their safety. I live on a
street that's a cul -de -sac and I am still concerned about their safety and frankly, I don't
know who didn't learn how to drive ... or ride a bike in the street. I think that's ... you try
to teach a kid to ride a bike on the sidewalk and you are going to fall over. But, you
know I grew up on streets that were country roads and busier streets and major streets
and my sister actually got hit by a car on one of those busy streets growing up. I am
concerned about the safety issues, but I am also concerned about this promise. It seems
to be a big concern for folks. The promise was made in 1995 and at the time, the project
was expected to take until 2001, six years. It has now been 16 years and it is expected to
go to 2014, for final completion, I believe is correct. So, that's 18 years. Who knows
what that Council would have promised back then in 1995 had they known that the
project would have taken 18 years. There may not have been a promise or there could
have been an even greater promise. We just don't know, but things have changed and
its ... for me it's hard for me to be the steward of taxpayer dollars and spend millions of
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
dollars on a street that is designed to provide through traffic and to say now that we have
finished that street to go ahead and leave that street closed. So, for me and for the length
of this time and sharing with you a little bit about some of my history as I just did, these
other issues are a concern but I have to look at as far as taxpayers, taxpayer dollars and
those taxpayer dollars have been spent to provide a product to all of Leesburg, that's
what we should do and go ahead and open up the barricade.
Wright: Thank you, Madam Mayor. This one, like most of the issues that make their
way up here and fill the audience, there is not one that is easy or cut and dry. One of the
things that struck me when this issue first came up and we talked about all of the
Lowenbach streets being closed is the main thing I was trying to figure out is if we said
we were going to keep all the Lowenbach Streets closed, how did Prince get opened?
Basically the way Prince got opened is North Street was opened and it didn't take folks
very long to realize all I got to do is make one quick turn off of North and I am on
Prince. Through the course of time from 1995 to now, various commitments have been
made and revised. One of the other things that weighs on me as I look at this is as we
look at this overall history, without the creation of the ad -hoc committee by one of the
previous town councils that had made a commitment that we are continuing to carry
forward, which is get the CIP to stop being a wish list and make it actually be something
we get done. They created the ad -hoc committee to kind of cut through the muck and
get these projects moving forward, so what weighs on me is the ad -hoc committee that
the majority of the members have spoken and said keep these barricades closed until all
the streets are done is the same ad -hoc committee that without them we wouldn't be
talking about a done street on Catoctin. One of the most compelling issues throughout
this has been the burden on both Prince and Blue Ridge. If you look at the traffic pattern
today and most of the traffic is coming down Prince as the defacto through street but
what is also interesting is they come down Prince. They don't go all the way to the
intersection, they turn and they cut across Blue Ridge. The traffic study indicates maybe
not as much of that will happen, but there are various behaviors of people which I have
learned over time cannot be predicted, but the other thing that has been compelling in
the discussions is the ability to expedite a construction. I think one of the time lines we
got is if Prince was allowed to be fully closed for construction, that could speed that
construction up by as much as three months and have that same cascading impact on the
other streets. I know as we have gone around through our various input sessions, every
professional we have asked as well as our Standing Residential Traffic Committee have
said open Catoctin. I think one of the things that is unfortunate in this is the timing of
the Woodberry Improvements kind of inserted itself into the flow of the Lowenbach
Improvements and that has generated an additional impact on Prince. I don't fault our
Capital Improvements staff for that because our other option was to do nothing while
they sorted out design issues. So, their focus was to get improvements done quickly and
efficiently. I guess the one thing I would say to the folks that are north of the Catoctin
barricade is whenever this barricade comes down, this is not going to be a windfall. One
of the things with the traffic design of Catoctin and these other streets when they are
improved is most people will tell you the street should tell you the speed limit. Speed
limit signs should be more of a reminder. Most of our streets within the Town of
Leesburg that are built to the full VDOT standards tell you to drive a different speed
than what the speed limit does. Catoctin tells you to drive 25 even before we had the
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
recommendation of the four way stop. It also told you to stop at Blue Ridge even when
that had been changed, so this is not going to be a high speed thoroughfare because of
the natural traffic calming measures. The other point that I would like to make for the
record is regardless of the decision that gets made on the Catoctin barricade, we will
finish all of these improvements. Because one of the themes that I have heard is if you
get this open, other things won't be done. This CIP project is fully funded and it will get
finished. It is designed, we are not going to back down from that. I am still struggling.
I think I am leaning towards removing the barricade with the primary concern being
Prince, but as you can tell by my rambling, I am weighing a lot.
Martinez: I think that we have talked enough with the SRTC, Standing Traffic
Residential Committee and we have talked about this a lot in the last month or two,
especially last night and tonight so I think enough comments have been made.
Butler: Thank you, Madam Mayor. But, unfortunately for Council Member Martinez,
I do have a couple of comments. First let me step back a little bit and go a little wild on
you and say that if I were an alien looking down on this gathering, looking at inter and
intra neighborhood discussions on these specific issues, it would be a fascinating
example of our representative democracy. If I were an alien, I would love gatherings
like this and want more of them because it provides a tremendous study. As a Council
Member though, these are difficult because you do have some neighbors and different
neighbors on opposite sides of a specific issue and they are the ones that are the hardest
up here on the Council to decide because you don't want to make people upset. You
want to make everyone happy. Well, they try that a little too much in Washington.
Here, I think we are a little more reasonable. The sidewalk on Woodberry was another
example of a very similar thing. It is actually too bad ... these improvements should have
been done back in 1995 or 1998 and finished because the town has grown so much over
that period of time that the entire ... I mean having streets that are basically in the middle
of town now... if you take a circle of the town and you put a dot in the middle, it's not
too far from Lowenbach. Streets this close to center of town without these kinds of
improvements and it's 2011 and we have 42,000 people is difficult to understand, but
here we are. One of the things that gives me pause is Catoctin... this is an enormous
change for these two blocks of Catoctin Circle. They have never been open before, ever.
This is not like where you have Prince or Woodberry where you are closing the street
down for construction, then you open it up and then it's nice and new and improved.
This is a whole new category for Catoctin Circle. They are going to get four times as
much traffic at least than they have ever had and they are going to be a through street so
it is going to completely change the character of the street. I think we need to be
sensitive to that and understand it that we knew that intellectually but now we are going
to find it out in actuality. I am glad that Council Member Martinez brought up the 75
percent vote to increase the fines. I do have a quick question for staff on this. If they do
that, is that administrative or does it come back to Council?
Irby: With respect to traffic fines?
Butler: Yeah, increasing the traffic fines ... the speeding by what ... $200 with a 75 percent
vote, you know?
15 1 Pagc°
COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Irby: I don't know off the top of my head.
Butler: I know I am springing it to you.
Grow: It is in the state code and I do believe the Council has to make that decision.
Irby: The town code will accept anything in the state code unless it's a prescriptive thing
where Council actually has to act, but we will bring it back if we need to.
Butler: I don't think there would be any trouble finding four votes on Council for that.
So, my two issues with this is the impact on Catoctin going to be significantly more now
than it would be in two years if we opened it with everything and the result is basically
no. They are going to have a significantly large amount of traffic now and if all the
barricades were open, it would be very similar because the impact on Queen and
Washington is going to be very small. My other concern is the impact on Blue Ridge.
The traffic studies say if there is no impact ... with all due respect, I am not quite sure I
believe that so one of the things I would like to make sure that we do is look at the cut
through traffic and if necessary consider four way stops at Prince or at Washington and
Queen and Blue Ridge to kind of slow those people down and reduce the incentive to do
a cut through, but other than that, I appreciate everybody coming out today and I know
this is hard for everyone, but thank you.
Mayor: Thanks, Dave. Before I go back to Katie for final comments, I can see the
perspective that everybody brings to this. The people who live up in Exeter Hills and
Exeter see a finished street and are pulling their hair out because they can't use it and
they very much would like to. The people on Prince Street, and I appreciate Larry
Schoenberger taking quite a lot of time over the weekend to explain his perspective, but
the folks on Prince wonder why they are on an unimproved street and getting this
additional traffic while Woodberry is closed and then the people on Catoctin Circle and
Blue Ridge are on the verge of having their entire world change. There is no easy vote
tonight. I don't think anybody up here is going to enjoy voting tonight, but I do believe
that the people on Catoctin and the people in Lowenbach in general never wanted all
this through traffic and as the only member of the Council who actually was on Council
when all of this began, I know that it started because the owner of the Giant supermarket
lot wanted access to Exeter Hills and Exeter and all of the homes up there. The easiest
access was Catoctin. The only way the Council could sell this opening to the
Lowenbach Community at large was to promise that the Catoctin Circle barricade
would remain up and other barricades until the entire project was done. That was the
expectation of everybody in Lowenbach for many, many years. Then we named the ad-
hoc committee. And as one of my colleagues pointed out, most, not all, but most
members of the ad -hoc committee have said keep the barricades up until everything is
complete and finished. Those people came to a difficult ... the committee members,
came to a very difficult compromise. None of them wanted Catoctin opened at all.
Many on Prince didn't want all this traffic coming through Lowenbach and the
compromise, which was a very difficult compromise to reach was that the barricades on
Catoctin and Queen and Washington would stay up until all the safety improvements
16 1 P�
COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
and street improvements were in place. That is the promise that has been referred to and
it was endorsed by multiple Councils, most recently in 2005. I, unfortunately, and while
I very deeply respect Larry Schoenberger and all his comments that he made and his
endlessly rational approach, I have to say I think there was a promise and I think I have
to keep it. So, I will be voting against opening Catoctin tonight.
Hammier: I think the key issue of the promise is very central, although I am going to
come back to the word failed expectations. We certainly not only made a promise in the
resolution that has been cited, 2005 -86 dealing with the implications of the project being
done at the same time and the barricades coming down at the same time, but we actually
in that same resolution made an implied promise to Prince Street that we would be done
with Prince Street by 2001 and we are now 10 years late and we broke our promise to
Prince Street. We are now, as a Council, struggling with a very important decision
based on facts that have come forward, based on what is the safest thing to do in terms
of the overall neighborhood. Does it make sense rationally to divert traffic to an
unimproved road? Those clearly are things that are very difficult decisions given
promises both in writing and implied. But again, I think the most important
responsibility we as a Council and previous Council's need to accept and I certainly as
an individual Council Member do accept is whether you are a company or a
government, what you never want to do is over promise and under deliver and what we
have essentially done is over promise and under deliver. For that, I think we on Council
owe the citizens of Lowenbach and the greater neighborhood a deep apology. That
being said, what I sincerely appreciate is everybody's involvement given the fact that
because of that failed expectation, the neighbors on Catoctin, the neighbors on Blue
Ridge are dealing with a very significant change which I absolutely appreciate because
they have been continually promised that the road will not be opened and low and
behold this change is now coming, based on what I am hearing from Council, much
more abruptly. So, in closing, I really just want to go back to something that Mr. Brian
Caney said this evening which is that he did sincerely appreciate everyone on Council's
dedicated support to try to get to what we feel in our deep conscience is the right thing to
do based on the overall safety of the entire neighborhood.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Dunn, Hammler, Martinez, Reid, and Wright
Nay: Mayor Umstattd
Vote: 6 -1
b. TLOA 2011 -0006 Text Amendments to the Subdivision and Land
Development Regulations
The public hearing was opened at 9:46 p.m.
Bill Ackman: Madam Mayor and Members of Council. I will try to be brief tonight.
What I have before you tonight is a couple of small revisions to the subdivision
regulations and I think that they are pretty straightforward. I will read through them
very quickly and the quick summary of what I am giving you tonight is basically when
we rewrote the subdivision ordinances a few months back, there were things that we
hadn't anticipated how it could impact the regular citizen ... the person that wants to put
17 i Pa
COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
a shed in their yard, the person who wants to build a patio, put in a hot tub, put in a
pool, a small addition to their house. It was just an oversight. It was one of those things
that if somebody wanted to come in and do it, it would be a $3,500 fee and probably
something matching that in engineering fees. Once that came to our attention, we
immediately wrote a draft. It went through the Planning Commission 7 -0 and I would
ask this body to make a similar vote tonight. Again, that's a quick summary. It's
basically sheds, porches, additions, screen porches, grading in yards where people are
just doing some landscaping. The other thing that it does is it also clarifies when a site
plan is needed for a parking lot, whether it's an existing parking lot that somebody wants
to pave, whether it's a parking lot that somebody wants to add gravel to, whether it's
something somebody wants to put in pervious pavers, it better defines that. So, I will be
brief in my presentation unless there are any questions.
Dunn: How is this going to ... almost everything you mentioned you have to go to the
Board of Architectural Review for your HOA for almost every one of those. This isn't
going to speed up that process as far as HOAs are concerned. A person couldn't come
to town and say hey, I've got this done now I can go to my HOA and just go ahead and
build it. They are still going to have to go through their HOA review boards.
Ackman: They do. This will speed up exponentially their zoning permit that they have
to get from staff.
Reid: I just want to say that I know the source of this ... you know, a very nice gentleman
moved back to Leesburg and got into this business with putting, I think, a garage on his
house. Actually talked to me about it, but did not want to get me involved or Council.
He wanted to work it out with staff. I just wanted to say for the press and others that
this this fellow only came to maybe in September. So, here we are in November and
with breakneck speed, our town staff has come to the rescue of this gentleman and other
small property owners. I just want to say how appreciative I am of you and your ability
to not so much bend the rules, but to be flexible. I think that this is an example of what
we need to do more in Loudoun County and it is something that I hope I am going to
bring to the Board of Supervisors in the County, is what I call the Leesburg Renaissance.
That is what it is, really. This is an example of town employees trying to help somebody
and doing it quickly. So, thank you, Bill. Thank you, Mr. Wells and thank you to ... I
keep forgetting this gentleman's name back here. Thank you, Keith. I am sure that the
people who came to you with this problem are very grateful too.
Ackman: If I may add one thing. There is one thing in the resolution that I failed to
mention up front. There is one application that chose to go forward and did pay the fee.
So, in the resolution you will find that we are also requesting that Council initiate a
refund to that person for the difference. So, we tried to be fair to everybody so that those
folks that went through the process to get their project done weren't financially hurt in
the long run.
Reid: Hey, Press! News media, are you listening? Giving a refund. That's pretty good.
18 1 11 a g
COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Wright: So, now you are just showing off. I was just happy that you translated the staff
report into English that all of us could understand and simple terms you were addressing
an unintended consequence and making the process more streamlined. So, now you are
just piling on. Thank you.
Mayor: Thumbs up from Dave.
There were no speakers to address this issue before Council.
The public hearing was closed at 9:53 p.m.
On a motion by Council Member Martinez, seconded by Council Member Butler, the
following was proposed.•
MOTION2011 -020
To Revise Division 3 — Sections 3.08 and 3.09 of the Subdivision and Land Development
Regulations (SLDR) of the Town of Leesburg, Virginia, October 10, 1990, as amended.
Dunn: I know I speak for Ken when I say lunch is on Ken. Okay? And I know that he
would go right along with that.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Dunn, Hammler, Martinez, Reid, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 7 -0
C. Amending Part II, Chapter 32 of the Leesburg Town Code Pertaining to
Truck Parking in Residential Neighborhoods
The public hearing was opened at 9:54 p.m.
Irby: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of Council. I am going to try to beat
Mr. Ackman's time, although I didn't give away and change the world with his
ordinance, but I will do the best that I can. With respect to individuals who have a
commercial vehicle who are engaged in the business of moving, they will be allowed to
park their truck either at the origination or destination of the move or the owner of the
commercial vehicle. We have upped the weight to 12,000 pounds to conform with the
state code. Additionally, there was a gentleman here last time who said that he received
a ticket because he was two pounds over weight. I did check with the LPD and have
confirmed my understanding. We base the weight not by what's in the truck, but by
what is on the registration of the vehicle. So, we don't weigh items with respect to what
may be in the vehicle not on the vehicle. That being said, I would appreciate your
consideration of this ordinance.
There were no speakers to address Council on this public hearing.
The public hearing was closed at 9:56 p.m.
19 1 F' a ,, c
COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
On a motion by Council Member Martinez, seconded by Vice Mayor Wright, the following
was proposed:
ORDINANCE 2011 -0 -021
To Add and Amend Town Code Part II, Chapter 32 (Traffic and Vehicles)
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Dunn, Hammler, Martinez, Reid, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 7 -0
11. ORDINANCES
a. None
12. RESOLUTIONS AND MOTIONS
a. Changing the Speed Limit on Battlefield Parkway between Route 7 and
Kincaid Boulevard
On a motion by Council Member Reid, seconded by Council Member Butler, the
following was proposed.•
PESOLUTION2011 -134
Changing the Speed Limit on Battlefield Parkway from 35 mph to 40 mph between
Route 7 and Kincaid Boulevard
Reid: Yes, I am pleased that we are doing this. This has been a long process. When
Battlefield opened in September 2009, there were immediately radar guns out there.
People in the southeast and other parts of town welcomed this. However, I am going to
offer a friendly amendment to also add a 40 mph speed limit between Sycolin Road and
the Dulles Greenway (Rt. 267) to 40 mph.
Mayor: Since you are making the motion, that can be part of your original motion, but I
have to check with Dave whether he still wishes to second.
Butler: Yeah, that's fine. I traveled that this morning and it is wide open. As wide open
as Route 7 just west of town, so I have no problem with this.
Mayor: So, that is now in this motion. Any other comments?
Hammler: I really appreciated the discussion last night, but I will not be supporting this,
primarily because I know the Town Manager is bringing back to Council a
comprehensive set of traffic calming measures and at this point, I believe the greater
desire of consistency in setting expectations regarding the speed limit on Battlefield,
particularly with certain segments where literally children are crossing the street and
getting hit. I will look forward to further recommendations from the Town Manager
regarding the overall Battlefield Parkway situation as well as traffic calming across town.
20 1 P 'l
COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Mayor: Thanks, before I go back to Ken for a final comment, I could have supported
this as to the section between Route 7 and Kincaid Boulevard, but I cannot support
extending that higher speed limit to the part of Battlefield between Sycolin and the
Greenway because of the homes along that section and the daycare center. That just
gives me too much heartburn.
Dunn: Madam Mayor, can I make a point of inquiry? Could we divide the question?
Mayor: Certainly, I would be happy to divide the question, if that is agreeable to
Council.
Reid: Yes, that's fine.
Mayor: So, would you like to take up initially the section between Route 7 and
Kincaid? Dave, are you comfortable with that?
Reid /Butler: Yes.
Mayor: Ken, any final comments before we vote on that section?
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Dunn, Reid, and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: Hammler, Martinez, and Wright
Vote: 4 -3
A motion by Council Member Reid to raise the speed limit to 40 mph on Battlefield
Parkway between Sycolin Road to the Dulles Greenway (Rt. 267) was proposed. The motion was
seconded by Council Member Butler.
Reid: First of all, I'm glad that the speed limit passed on the downhill, but I am telling
you my colleagues are going to be getting a lot of heat for voting against that and I think
that you really ought to consider supporting Dave's motion and mine. There are just all
too many people who are being flagged down there for going ... what is basically a road
that can easily handle traffic going as much as 50 mph. And that's not what Dave and I
are proposing here. But unfortunately, staff clumped together in their report both the
Cool Springs section between Kincaid Boulevard and Sycolin with Oaklawn, and that's
not what's part of this resolution. What's part of this resolution is strictly the
commercial section between Sycolin Road and the Dulles Greenway. That's all that we
are talking about here. There are several roads that are divided that have different speed
limits. There are school zones where we literally slow traffic on Battlefield Parkway to
15 mph during school hours. Drivers can compensate. I.f you look at the accident
situation, most of the accidents were at Battlefield and Evergreen Mill Road and there
was one at Kincaid and Beauregard. We are not talking about raising the speed limit
there. What we are talking about is a major commuter area, where people are trying to
access the Dulles Greenway. They are trying to get to Heritage High School and road
narrows when you get over the bridge. It narrows when you get over the bridge and that
section would still stay 35 or 30, or whatever it is now. So, I really believe folks that we
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
are not being realistic here when we talk about traffic calming. As far as I am
concerned, the section in Exeter where you live, Katie, and the section in Potomac
Crossing are different sections. I would actually support lowering the speed limit there
and there is nothing wrong with having varying speed limits on Battlefield Parkway or
the Leesburg Bypass. It just so happens that US 15, which is an extraordinarily
dangerous two lane road probably has a 50 mph speed limit in sections and we know for
a fact that similar roads like Ashburn Village Boulevard and Ashburn Farm Parkway
have 40 mph speed limits, so I would encourage my colleagues to give me that fourth
vote to raise the speed limit in the Oaklawn section because I think by voting against
that section on Kincaid to 7, you are going to raise a lot of problems with your
constituents. I am glad it passed and I thank you, Madam Mayor, for giving us that
fourth vote. So, really let's do this. Let's give it a 40 mph speed limit just between
Sycolin Road and the Dulles Greenway. That's it. That's all I am asking for. That's all
Mr. Butler is asking for. We live in those neighborhoods and we know what the
problem is.
Butler: I would not support lowering the speed limit anywhere on Battlefield Parkway,
because to Vice Mayor Wright's point earlier, all roads have a natural speed to them and
if you make the speed limit lower than that natural speed, then you are going to have
problems. You are going to have problems because people are going to go the natural
speed and the people in the neighborhoods are going to have expectations that these
people are going to slow down and they are not going to slow down because the road
doesn't by itself warrant it. And it's easy to say, just look at the signs and put your foot
on the brake, but in real life, that's not what happens and as Council Member Reid said,
Ashburn Farm Parkway is 40 mph and goes past a number of schools and those schools
they don't go down to 15 mph. They go down to 25 mph. I know, because I drive past
them every day. So, their limit going past the school is the same as our limit on our city
streets, so we need to be reasonable and we need to fit what the road network was
designed for and 35 mph on Battlefield, as far as I am concerned, is the absolute
minimum. It's a divided four -lane highway, less than 35 mph would be a crime in and
of itself. It probably should be higher. People shouldn't be having their kids go play in
traffic on Battlefield Parkway because it's not designed for that. I am actually upset even
with my development, Stratford, that has a four lane undivided highway through it.
Hope Parkway. Having 25 mph on that street is not natural for the street. What
happens is parents have an expectation that people are going to be going 25. People
don't go 25 so that puts children at risk. You have to have the speed limit to be what is
natural for people on that road. Between Sycolin and the Greenway, that's exactly what
Council Member Reid said. People are going there. Their goal is to either get home
from work... their goal is to get on the Greenway. The natural speed of that is higher
than 35, so I would also encourage you to vote for this resolution, although I'm not
going to hold my breath.
Hammler: But, just for the record we parents near Battlefield do not send our children
to go play on Battlefield.
Martinez: No comments.
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Wright: I didn't have anything, but I have something now. This is a... the discussion
and Council Member Reid's angst at us not agreeing with his view on this highlights
what seems to be a general issue. Speed limits are the law and should be respected.
Someone got a ticket for speeding. They were violating the law. We have a general
culture of not respecting speed limits and as one of the petitioners who was speaking
earlier talking about things that people should do as far as driving with common sense. I
agree, they should do that. They don't. I am currently having one of those joys of
parenthood, which is teaching my 16- year -old to drive. I don't worry at all about her. I
worry about the people behind her. I spend more time worrying that we are going to get
rear -ended because she is doing the speed limit than anything else. Which, as Ken
highlighted for this particular section of road that we are talking about, people are trying
to get to Heritage High School. That includes student drivers and what you are
proposing is to change a speed limit every other section. So, you are going to come
across Route 7, go up to 40, reach the top of the hills, go down through Cool Spring and
that residential area and the speed limit will have stepped down. Then, you will cross
the road again and the speed limit will go up. Then you will cross another intersection
and the speed limit will go down. That doesn't make sense. Changing speed limits .... I
saw somebody comment that well, 15 should be 25 all the way. If you are stepping
down as you are going into an area, that's logical. To have it change on a block by block
basis is not logical and if my constituents are upset with me for that, fine. But, I am not
changing my vote or my opinion because someone got a speeding ticket.
Dunn: The make up ... and I live in a neighborhood where Battlefield crosses right
through and I am on Battlefield all the time and my kids go to school on Battlefield. I
think that the make up of Battlefield in the northeast portion of town is completely
different than it is from the southeast portion of town. In fact, I pointed out that there is
a childcare center on Battlefield where we are discussing, but that's about all that's over
there. While we could increase the speed limit today, when the make up of that street
changes to maybe have more residential or more businesses, we can always come back
and decide to lower the speed limit down at that time, if we chose. Right now, it's
bordered by the airport, by the Greenway, a bank and a daycare center and maybe a
couple of townhouses that are nearby. So, the make up, I think could warrant a speed
limit increase to 40 mph. The change in the speed limit, once you cross over the
Greenway, as Mr. Wright mentioned, changing it could confuse folks. Well, having had
a daughter who just graduated from Heritage and I spent plenty of time going back and
forth to Heritage when she wasn't driving ... you could make the speed limit 70 mph from
the Greenway to Evergreen Mill. Believe me, in the morning you are not going to get
above 15. That traffic backs up so it doesn't matter what you make the speed limit there,
you aren't going to get anywhere close to the speed limit because that traffic backs all the
way up past the Greenway. And, by the way, if and when Battlefield ever gets built, that
could change up the make up of Battlefield going through the other subdivision. John,
as of right now, do you really have any traffic calming measures anticipated for
Battlefield throughout town? I don't think they will be speed bumps.
Wells: What we are looking at is there are signalization initiatives that are underway.
Council has an item in the CIP in the out years, that I know is being suggested to move
forward in terms of safety issue in the Exeter neighborhood. There are issues with
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
notification or identification of crosswalks. We have had a number of concerns raised
about the visibility of crosswalks. There are a number of options we are looking at there.
Probably the bigger issue is the general conversation that I think everybody has been
having at one level or another regarding the issue of enforcement and what can we do in
terms of enforcement. Looking at increased number of talk back signs beyond what we
have budgeted now. Looking at some alternatives there. Looking at some tighter
guidelines that our officers might be using in terms of what might constitute a reasonable
stop or a pull over for somebody speeding. A lot of that has to do with what the courts
are going to support in terms of what they will allow for a variation at the speed limit
level. So, speed limit enforcement, monitoring of talk back signs, traffic trailers, traffic
signalization and crosswalks are all part of that.
Dunn: And that possibility is on Battlefield only or really throughout town?
Wells: All throughout town. The only one that is limited in terms of Battlefield really is
the traffic signal since that was in the CIP specifically.
Dunn: Really just timing of the signal changes?
Wells: Possibly yes. That will be a Council decision.
Dunn: Those things are going to happen whether the speed limit is 25, 30 or 40?
Wells: They can, yes.
Dunn: Okay. So, I don't see a need in slowing down the ... no pun intended ... the
passage of this resolution or this motion... it's a general resolution for waiting to find out
what staff is going to do because they are going to do it no matter what the speed limit
is. So, I would encourage to go ahead and make the change. And, if we do find that the
make up of the road changes in the future, we can always change it back to a lower
speed.
Reid: I would like to say that it's not because I or somebody got a speeding ticket. It's
because several people have gotten speeding tickets, okay? And they have complained
to me. There are other things on Battlefield that are a problem such as the fact that the
Greenway narrows and people are in the left lane ... Dave, you know about that? People
are on the left lane on Battlefield and they have to get into the right lane to shift over.
That's been a persistent problem. There are other things going on over there too. Thank
you, Tom, for mentioning that. Yes, traffic going to Heritage High School in the
morning and coming back in the afternoon, student or no student... is pretty slow.
The motion to increase the speed limit on Battlefield Parkway from 35 mph to 40 mph in
the section between Sycolin Road and the Dulles Greenway failed by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Dunn and Reid
Nay: Hammler, Martinez, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Vote: 3 -4
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
16. COUNCIL COMMENTS
Council Member Dunn had no comments.
Vice Mayor Wright had no comments.
Council Member Martinez had no comments.
Council Member Hammler: I was going to say congratulations to someone in
particular, but he has since left the dais. Okay, just a few quick comments. I did
officially want to congratulate everyone who was elected and very much thank them in
advance for all their hard work for Leesburg as our elected representatives. Randy
Minchew, Scott York, Jim Plowman, Commissioner Wertz, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Reid. I
was going to add a few comments about the Leesburg Renaissance, which is really in
Leesburg's leadership and it is a very consistent theme you will hear... certainly that I do
at the EDC meetings where the County is following our lead on so many initiatives. So,
I was going to say Ken, you can't have John Wells, but he is not hear. Listen to that.
Speaking of John, we are heading down to the VML Financial Conference on December
1. Finally, just wanted to mention a big congratulations to all of those that received
awards at the Balch Library History Awards. Thank the Mayor specifically as well as
John Wells and everyone involved on the commission. They did a wonderful job
putting on a lovely ceremony last Sunday and I wanted to thank everybody involved in
the Veteran's Day ceremony. It was very moving.
Council Member Butler: Just a couple of quick things. I noticed Kara Clark
wasn't here today. It's her birthday, so I wanted to wish her a happy birthday. The art
exhibit downstairs, all done by town staff, is excellent. I had a chance to look through
those. Lastly, I had already congratulated Ken, but for another reason I am glad that he
is leaving Council, but not for the reasons you might think. I think the same Council
has been together for almost 3 '/2 years and frankly I think that's too long. I am glad that
there is going to be at least some turnover on Council now. Whether it was Ken or
somebody else because then the dynamics of Council will change and I feel like the
Council's performance over all will be improved. Of course, then we have all the
dynamics of special elections and elections in the fall and all that stuff and with the date
change, we are much more likely to have significantly more turn over on Council than
we normally would. So, I just wanted to say that I think turn over on Council is good.
So, anyway I am looking forward to that with no disrespect at all intended to Council
Member Reid. Thank you.
17. MAYOR'S COMMENTS
I want to echo Katie's comments about Veteran's Day. That was a wonderful
ceremony at Dodona and the dawn ceremony at Balls Bluff Battlefield was wonderful as
well. It's generally cold. It's sometimes raining and windy up there, but it is quite a
unique experience to participate. So, thank you to the members of the Knights of
Columbus and the Veteran's of Foreign Wars and the American Legion and our other
veterans who came in to help out with that. The only comment that I have is Ken you
are soon going to get hit with a memo from the County attorney outlining various ways
to make Leesburg pay higher fees for County services than other towns pay unless we
25 1 Pa
COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
eliminate our out of town water rate differential. So, we know you will be committed to
representing our constituents and fighting for Leesburg hard when you get to the Board
and we hope to be in frequent contact with you to give you whatever support in that
effort you need.
Reid: Thank you for giving me that heads up and I just want to thank first of all the
town residents for electing me to the Board of Supervisors and I want to thank Kelly
Burk for running a very honest and positive campaign. I was very disappointed that the
turn out was so low in Loudoun County and Leesburg was actually the third highest, but
I do want to thank the residents for approving the election change. That was a
significant battle, as you know I was waging. We have that and I hope that for the
special election which has to be done for my seat, I would hope that would be in
November because I think that the town should not be paying the cost of a special
election. I guess it has to be in April or November, is that how it works?
Irby: April will work. July or August will work and November will work. Just because
of the timing of the primaries with respect to...
Reid: Oh really? So the court has that flexibility ... so....
Irby: The court is limited by prescribed times in the statute that we have to read for
primaries with respect to the presidential election and the U.S. Senate elections. So,
there are a couple of dates in April that will work...
Reid: But the Council doesn't make a decision on that? The Court picks a day. Okay,
very good.
Irby: The Council can give a suggestion, but the court picks the date.
Reid: Okay, I would hope that the Council would suggest a November date. I just want
to say to my colleagues... now that Leesburg is pretty much under one roof. You have
one supervisor, pretty much. You have one school board rep and I am there to serve
you. That's how I look at this. I look at this as serving the Town Council and I am
going to fight like the dickens to make sure that the Board of Supervisors doesn't play
the same games that they played with the last Board and try to mess with the water rates
and our ability, but I will say that it will help a lot if the Council were to show some
earnest and some due diligence to do something about what is going with the sewer
surcharge by instituting the URAC recommendations or something along those lines. I
think that would go a long way, but I want to invite you to really sit down with the new
supervisors now before they take office. I would be more than happy to arrange
meetings, one on ones, two on ones, whatever. I have already talked with Geary
Higgins who represents the out of town water users. He represents one precinct in
Leesburg and he basically told me that he wants to see a solution. He is not into
grandstanding. Those were his exact words to me. This memo from the County
attorney. I will have to talk to you about that ... this must be coming from the current
Board. I hope the new board, and I will be working like the Dickens to make sure that
we get our fair share of County services. That we have a meeting on the Balch, on
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COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
annexation, on whatever you want to talk about and they are not going to be breathing
down our necks on water rates or whatever or trying to hold a gun to our heads or a
knife over our heads for something that is a perception problem. Okay? There is
nobody on this Council, except Madam Mayor, who wants to go back to a 100 percent
surcharge and I keep telling them this. So, that's how I sort of look at my position. It's
late and I think maybe at the next meeting, I'll probably try to outline a bit more, but
you don't have to write letters. You don't have to do resolutions. Really! Just pick up
the phone. Call me. I'll be there. I will come to the meetings. I will be here. I think
you know that I am a pain in the rear. Why would I not want to stay away from you
guys, right? How can I not come back to this wonderful building? Thanks a lot, Madam
Mayor.
18. MANAGER'S COMMENTS
Just very briefly, I am passing down the short version of our six month calendar
of agenda items. This is the two month version that basically takes us through now and
the end of the calendar year. Basically the next two meetings after tonight. I wanted to
highlight... I'm not going to go through and read each item, but just note coming up on
November 28 at your work session we are due back to bring staffs comments and
recommendations regarding the downtown improvements. The residential parking in
the downtown, I think, is due back based on discussions with the planning commission.
First conversations about the FY 2013 budget, form based code, and then the date of the
special election and the process for filling council vacancy, so that's a fairly heavy list of
items for the 28th. Some of those carry over into votes potentially for the 29th. Those are
certainly Council's prerogatives. If you look at the 121h and again your schedule flipping
over to December you have only got one meeting set in December. Update on setting
up the endowment for the Balch Library, our first update on the Mason Enterprise
Center, the discussion about the Leesburg Watershed Committee, URAC
recommendations, we are expecting back. Also, the airport rules and regulations and
then the last item is the traffic safety and speeding issues Battlefield and Town -wide.
Again, some of those carry into action on the 13t1i, but that's based on your priorities,
that seems to fill out the balance of the year. I just wanted to leave that thought with
you and that's all I have, thank you.
19. CLOSED SESSION
On a motion by Mayor Umstattd, seconded by Council Member Butler, the following was
proposed.•
Pursuant to Section 2.2- 3711(a)(3) of the Code of Virginia, I move that Town Council
convene in a closed meeting for the purpose of receiving information and discussion regarding: (a)
Dominion Power Offer for Real Estate
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Dunn, Hammler, Martinez, Reid, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 7 -0
Council convened in closed session at 10:27 p.m.
27 1 11
COUNCIL MEETING November 15, 2011
Council reconvened in open session at 10:45 p.m.
On the motion of Mayor Umstattd, seconded by Vice Mayor Wright, the following was
proposed:
In accordance with Section 2.2 -3712 of the Code of Virginia, I move that Council certify
that to the best of each member's knowledge, only public business matters lawfully
exempted from open meeting requirements under the Virginia Freedom oflnformation Act
and such public business matters as were identified in the motion by which the closed
meeting was convened were heard, discussed or considered in the meeting by Council.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Dunn, Hammler, Martinez, Reid, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 7 -0
I 018 Jt 0ul \
On a motion by Vice Mayor Wright, seconded by Council Member Butler, the
meeting was adjourned at 10:45 p.m.
C. Iffinstattd, Mayor
Town of Leesburg
A T:
Clerk of Co n it
2011 tcmin1115
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