HomeMy Public PortalAbout2015_tcmin0922 COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
Council Chambers, 25 West Market Street, 7:30 p.m. Mayor Umstattd presiding.
Council Members Present: Kelly Burk, David Butler, Thomas Dunn, Suzanne Fox, Katie
Sheldon Hammler, Marty Martinez and Mayor Umstattd.
Council Members Absent: None.
Staff Present: Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Deputy Town Manager Keith Markel, Town
Attorney Barbara Notar, Director of Planning and Zoning Susan Berry Hill, Director of
Economic Development Marantha Edwards, Director of Parks and Recreation Rich
Williams, Assistant Town Manager Tom Mason, Director of Public Works and Capital
Projects Renee Lafollette, Management Analyst Jason Cournoyer, Senior Engineer Anne
Geiger, Senior Planner Michael Watkins and Executive Associate I Tara Belote.
AGENDA ITEMS
1. CALL TO ORDER
2. INVOCATION: Council Member Dunn
3. SALUTE TO THE FLAG: Vice Mayor Burk
4. ROLL CALL: Showing all members present.
5. MINUTES
a. Regular Session Minutes of September 8, 2015
On a motion by Council Member Butler, seconded by Council Member Dunn, the
regular session minutes of September 8, 2015 were approved by a vote of 7-0.
6. ADOPTING THE MEETING AGENDA
On the motion of Council Member Martinez, seconded by Council Member Hammler, the
meeting agenda was approved after deleting Item 9b, by the following vote:
Aye: Burk, Butler, Dunn, Fox, Hammler, Martinez, and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 7-0
7. PRESENTATIONS
a. Proclamation—Young Marines Red Ribbon Week
On a motion by Council Member Dunn, seconded by Council Member Butler, the
following was proclaimed:
PROCLAMATION
Young Marines
Red Ribbon Week 2015
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WHEREAS, The Young Marines is an educational and service oriented
program for young girls and boys, ages eight through the completion of high
school that promotes the mental, moral and physical development of its
members; and
WHEREAS, Red Ribbon Week was established to commemorate the
service of Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agent Enrique "Kiki"
Camerena, who was murdered in the line of duty in 1985 while engaged in the
battle against illicit drugs; and
WHEREAS, Red Ribbon Week has been nationally recognized since
1988 and is now the oldest and largest drug prevention program in the United
States, reaching millions of young people each year; and
WHEREAS, The Young Marines encourage everyone to demonstrate
their commitment to a healthy, productive and drug-free lifestyle by participating
in Red Ribbon Week.
THEREFORE, RESOLVED by the Council of the Town of Leesburg in
Virginia that the Council endorses the Young Marines and their commitment to
drug abuse prevention and living a healthy, productive drug-free lifestyle.
PROCLAIMED this 22nd day of September, 2015.
b. Proclamation Presentation—Blood Cancer Awareness Month and
Lymphoma Awareness Day
The previously proclaimed Blood Cancer Awareness Month and Lymphoma
Awareness Day Proclamation was presented to Mayor David Leake and Council
Member Joe Pasanello of the Town of Haymarket.
PROCLAMATION
BLOOD CANCER AWARENESS MONTH
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
September 2015
LYMPHOMA AWARENESS DAY
September 15, 2015
WHEREAS, Lymphoma is the most common form of blood cancer and the
third most common cancer of childhood; and
WHEREAS, more than 80,000 new cases of lymphoma are diagnosed each
year in the United States, including 1,900 in the State of Virginia; and
WHEREAS, a cure for lymphoma can only be realized through advanced
cancer research; and
WHEREAS, awareness and education are powerful tools in the race to find a
cure for lymphoma; and
WHEREAS, the health and vitality of the people of the State of Virginia are
significantly enhanced by local efforts to increase communication and education
pertaining to blood cancers; and
WHEREAS, the Lymphoma Research Foundation offers a wide range of
support services and programs for people with lymphoma, their loved ones and
caregivers.
WHEREAS, Lymphoma Awareness Day helps to raise general awareness of
the disease and provides hope to all those affected by a lymphoma diagnosis; and
THEREFORE, BE IT PROCLAIMED by the Mayor and Council of the
Town of Leesburg in Virginia that September is Blood Cancer Awareness Month and
September 15, 2015 is Lymphoma Awareness Day in the Town of Leesburg and all
citizens are urged to support the efforts to find a cure for these diseases and to offer
support to those who have been affected by them.
PROCLAIMED this 8th day of September, 2015.
c. Presentation: Mason Enterprise Center
Susan Henson, Director, Mason Enterprise Center, gave a presentation on
things that are going on at the Mason Enterprise Center. She noted that the Center
houses 42 businesses and 34 virtual offices —for a total of 76 companies. She stated
the Small Business Development Center has relocated to the Mason Enterprise
Center, which will offer tenants another resource to help them grow their businesses.
Council Comments/Questions:
• Dunn: It was my understanding that after the initial period that the enterprise
center was going to be self sustaining and that the contribution that Leesburg
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would have to provide would no longer have to be there. Is that your
understanding?
Henson: I was not here when that particular understanding was happening. I
believe that there was some discussion about that at the previous opportunity,
but an incubator program like the Mason Enterprise Center, is the kind of
entity as a public sector entity, not a private sector, you know, venture based
or private sector funded incubator that will never be completely self-
supporting as long as we are supporting economic development within the
community. Now, if we took the model and had some investors come in and
take equity in companies and begin to take some ownership—I don't know
what the division of that is, you know, maybe that is a different model. We
are looking toward this year creating a robust sponsorship program so that we
will be able to bring in some additional funds, but we don't ever see the
community contribution going away. It is certainly minimal and has not
grown over the past four years. In fact, it has actually reduced since the initial
investment in 2008. You know, if there was talk of that in the past, I wasn't
part of that conversation. In my research across the nation with our national
organization, any community based incubator program that there is out there
is really not ever completely not receiving some public support.
• Dunn: Mason is a public university, so in an essence it is getting public
funding all the way along.
Henson: It is but in terms of servicing the local community needs, we really
need to have community partners help support the financial obligations and
to be able to really create a program that serves the needs of the local
community. You know, if Mason was, you know, all in, I guess they would
probably they would probably say well let's turn it into an academic location
and educate students. While we want to fold them into the process that we
have with internships, we really want to keep this facility focused on
economic development and the community needs.
• Butler: Thanks for the update. It seems that this has been mildly successful.
The one thing, to expand on what Tom said, if we are 100% leased—have
you been 100% leased for a while or is that a new thing.
Henson: No, it has been a while.
• Butler: In other words, I might say that if you are 100% leased all the time,
then are you charging enough. Have you done a pro forma to see what would
happen if we increased the rates to a certain amount so that the public
contribution is lower or non-existent? What would happen to the model and
all that. It would be interesting.
Henson: The challenge is we are above commercial market rates for those
incubator companies anyway, so we just went through a rate of 3% increase,
so our leases increase 3% every year and so we then are passing that increase
along to our companies. If we raise the rent very much more, we are going to
be prohibitive to the mission of the organization, which is to support and
grow small companies. So, we have looked at that. The challenge that we
have—our facility is an educational business support community. It is not
just an office building where you rent an office, so that we have much more
common space than you would get in a normal office building. We also have
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staff that are there to help program and help consult with the businesses to
make sure that they are growing and so we have some cost structure there that
you would not have in a normal commercial office space. So, there are some
costs that we have that are not exactly [inaudible] and we are—and I work
very closely with the town in terms of cost and how much the lease is and
how much to pass along. What is appropriate, so we charge not only what
the rental space would be but we also charge an additional fee to
accommodate the business services. Is it going to ever fully fund the overhead
costs that we have? It won't without additional support. If we just had to pay
the rent on the building, would the rents maybe cover it? Maybe. But, that
would be a building with offices that are being rented. It wouldn't be a
business incubator.
• Burk: Thank you. It is always interesting to hear what is going on over there
and how successful you are. But, I do have a question, if we are so crunched
for space, how come there are some companies that have two locations at the
center?
Henson: Two offices? Yes, there is a couple of companies—two different
companies that have two offices and that has just recently happened and that
does often happen just before they kind of get ready to graduate. Both of
those companies are coming up in this next year of their third year. As long
as they aren't taking up more than two offices, we really like to be able to
accommodate that. If you can get a company to a certain size, the likelihood
that they will continue to be successful is higher and so if we can kind of keep
them in the fold a little bit longer, we feel like we are accommodating the
needs that we have. Those companies that we are referring to have two of the
larger offices in the facility and so many of the companies that we have
coming in will need smaller investments in spaces, so wouldn't be able to rent
a full space anyway. So, dicing it into five offices, while you can
accommodate a lot of companies, each lease you do adds to cost. So, if a
commercial real estate business likes to rent the whole building to one
company or a whole floor to one company, someone would have to manage
all those leases. So, we do many times divide an office into more than one,
but with these two particular companies we feel like they are growing at the
right rate. Custom Software Systems in Leesburg had about 2 1/2 offices
before they graduated out a couple of years ago and they are doing very well
and are a great community supporter. So, on a case by case basis, we kind of
look at the situation.
• Burk: All these companies have a three year period. That's it. They are in
and out in three years.
Henson: For the most part. We do have two companies that are providing
some service to the organization—in other words, they have taken leadership
of a particular program that we have. There is one company that is not at
three years yet, but he may stay a little longer than that because he is leaving
our internship program and we have another company that is doing some
research projects for companies on kind of a pro bono basis and these are
companies that have small offices. So, on a case by case basis, we like to
make sure that we keep the balance in the facility—the mix right. In other
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words not all of one type of company. We want to make sure that we have
support services.
• Burk: So, how many companies would you say have been there longer than
three years?
Henson: Right at this moment in time, there are none. There is nobody that
has expired their three years. Well, we have [inaudible] who is graduating in
October.
• Burk: I'll take your word for it if you say that. Alright. Thank you. Thank
you very much.
Henson: Off the top of my head I am pretty sure and I usually have a pretty
good feel for who is there. The thing probably is if we had a really long
waiting list, there would be another decision that we would make on that, but
at this moment in time, I have one company on the list that is looking for a
particular space when it comes open, and we have another company that will
[inaudible]. So, far so good. We are rolling them in.
• Burk: I don't have a problem if companies stay longer, but you have
repeatedly said that after three years they move on so I just wondered if that
was enough time for a company to get started and move on. That seems
pretty quick.
Henson: And it most certainly is.
• Martinez: Well, I appreciate our guests from Haymarket hanging around,
watching the way we do business. The only thing I got is you [inaudible],
you said$100 million?
Henson: I'm sorry. That's a big difference.
• Martinez: So, it is a $1 million. Only a million.
• Hammler: Thank you, Susan. Great update. It is wonderful to see how
entrepreneurial you are about running such a great entrepreneurship program.
I guess, a couple of quick questions. When you say greater than $35 million
in revenue increases and more than 150 additional jobs —what is the base or
are you basically just saying we have $35 million in revenue from the
companies and 150 jobs?
Henson: Since they moved in, whatever they were at at the point that they
moved in—additional.
• Hammler: Thank you for clarifying that and I would really appreciate a copy
of the power point so I have it for reference.
• Fox: About three hours before this meeting I hit Kaj, Marantha and Susan
with about six or seven questions. Sorry about that. But they have been
asked and answered. Thank you so much. I just wanted for the record,
wanted you to state that the county has some interest in this enterprise as
well, correct?
Henson: Oh, absolutely.
• Fox: And they contribute greatly to it as well.
Henson: Absolutely, [inaudible] for the organization. The other point,
related to those community funds, is the SBDC program also receives funds
through the SBA and those funds are community matched. So, the county,
some of that comes through the town but the big portion of that then provides
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the match that we need for the SBA funds. So, we get close to $80,000 from
SBA to support the Small Business Development Center.
d. Leesburg Arts Master Plan (Commission on Public Art)
Tom O'Neil, Chair, Commission on Public Art, stated in working with the
Friends of Leesburg Public Art, it became apparent that a Master Plan would be a
good idea to create a coherent approach to projects. He described the draft Master
Plan and requested that Council give input.
Council Comments:
• Dunn: Very good report and something I had thought of. I'll just throw out
to you and you can do what you want with it. Along the lines with your
donated art 5 x 7 for $50, there might be other folks like myself who have art
in my house—I've got signed and numbered prints that are rolled up and
sitting in a corner. I have just never gotten around to getting them framed,
but there may be others who could donate art and then you all could maybe
sell it at the Art Show or do an auction. Other ways to raise funds but you
might also consider finding out if folks would like to donate other types of art
that you can sell.
• Burk: The show is this weekend. You most certainly can connect with them.
• Dunn: If they want to. Let me know. If you want to sell it, I've got it.
• Butler: Alright, if I see a numbered print that Tom donated, I'll buy it.
Anyway, thanks for the presentation. I loved the 5 x 7 guys. I have a couple
of those at home. I think it was a really great event. For some of the
performing arts groups around, the Council does do a matching grant for
money from the state. So, I would encourage, maybe as part of the budget
process we can include some money there for a matching grant that would be
related to this but the one that we missed out on because we don't contribute
any money. I think at least putting some money in there shows, you know,
support/endorsement by the Council. To put no money in, I think some will
perceive that we are not very serious about it and I would certainly like that to
change.
• Burk: I am delighted to see this come forward. I love your graphics by the
way. They were so much fund. Is that right? Obviously, I think this is very
important and I am glad that you are putting it together and that we are
getting it together and I want to commend all of you. I mean you are all
volunteers and the amount of time and effort you guys have put into this to
bring the idea of a mural from an idea to almost fruition and then the park—
the statutes in the park and then your fundraising ideas —I really appreciate
all of your efforts and I agree with Dave that we do have other matching
grants that we ought to consider doing the same thing. I was speaking with
someone that started Reston—was one of the first developers of Reston and
he was telling me the second thing they did after they created their plan for
the town center was to create an arts plan. If you go there, there is quite a bit
of art because they thought about it and they were committed to it and so I'd
like to see the town do the same thing. Thanks. This was great.
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• Martinez: I wouldn't expect anything less of a presentation than what you
gave. Thank you. I appreciate you being here and I am looking forward to
helping with the town plan—with your comprehensive plan.
• Hammler: Thank you for the report and as [inaudible] from a graphics
perspective, that is the best power point I have ever seen up here. So well
done. I loved it. It was really entertaining. I also would echo just a big thank
you for all of you for sharing your talents. One thing I appreciate you also
thinking about are policy recommendations you can be bringing to Council in
the interim. I know we may want to look at say the mural regulations around
town that may encourage private sector and where they may be able to
encourage things like murals. I visited a beer garden venue in downtown and
what was the big attracter there was they had in fact on the building put this
huge Marilyn Monroe on the side and it has really become their logo and a
huge attracter so I would like to see how we can really engage the commercial
sector and get private citizens involved and along that line I had to give a big
shout out to Sue, who is unbelievably talented and did the stained glass
window in my home so there are so many ways we can all embrace your
wonderful talents. The other recommendation is reach out to the Loudoun
County subcommittee that is working on nightlife. They are specifically
really delving into how they can create more arts and even arts and cultural
districts around the county but that may be just an opportunity to network
and so some more fundraising because it is really getting a lot of attention
around this idea of getting more people involved in again nightlife and things
that we are already seeing in places like Reston. Thank you so much.
• Fox: Thank you for your presentation. I think it was wonderful and I was
wondering—I know we are going to discuss this a little bit later, but who
came up with the idea to paint the snow plow blades? The snow plow blades
[inaudible] —oh, did he really. That was my only question.
• Mayor: Thank you for mentioning the bridge banner because Hannah, the
little girl who's idea it is just emailed me and asked what she should do to try
to promote this idea so I just told her that you had mentioned her idea at the
Council meeting and I have invited her to see if she could come to one of
your upcoming meetings to explain her vision, but that would mean a huge
deal to her that you took the time to mention her idea and let us know what
we can do to move forward with that, if the Commission decides it is a good
idea.
8. PETITIONERS
The Petitioner's Section was opened at 8:27 p.m.
Jay Greeley: It has been a long time since I have taken this podium, but I wanted to
thank the folks at the incubator. I didn't want to tell her, I think I have been there for about
five years, but I took a two year broken neck time off—they have kept me alive and I have
my mail box there and we are maybe 24 hours away from our first contract, so [inaudible].
The real reason, I am here tonight—my name is Jay Greeley and I live at 1209 James Rifle
Court. I think I have been here for over— since 1993, so it is over 20 years. I have reached
this podium maybe three times, but it has always been for volunteers and I want to thank
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these guys right here for what they do and the reason I rise to speak to each and every one of
you is how important our volunteers are to our rescue unit that we have here in Leesburg.
We probably have the best rescue unit—well, they didn't save my neck, but they sure helped
me get to the hospital. In case any of you don't know, I had this really long military career
jumping out of perfectly good airplanes 14 times, landing on my 6 point contact—your head
but you are supposed to not do it once [inaudible]. Seriously, these guys are great. I have a
lot to [inaudible] and I want to express to each and every one of you that we need these
volunteers. Volunteers means taxpayer dollars being used to the best because we are
training them and they are helping the community and they don't charge. What little we do
pay them is pennies on the dollar. So, one of the most important things we can do as
citizens is to support them. I have a problem and it was clarified for me before I got up here
—I wanted to make sure I had the facts straight, but one of the facts is that they are being
held back. They are being held back by training. So, not to point fingers at the city, the
county, the state, or whatever. Let's just put it this way. We need to train these volunteers.
We need to encourage the volunteers. We need to make sure that the county provides the
time, space and equilibrium in their quest to become good servants. They are the kind of
servants you want. They are not there with their hand in the pocket. They are there with
their hand held out to help. Think about that. I think they had over 4000 bus rides last year
and they are almost going to 50 this year. I had the correct number, but I can't remember it.
So,just one too many jumps. Seriously, that's the reason why I rise. I would like each of
you guys—thank you for what you do. I am here to ask that the mayor or the staff request
the county to give an accounting for how they are going to train our people in this city to do
their job instead of saying well we can't put you on there. You just came off the battlefield,
you are a combat ready medic. You have treated more soldiers. You have done more
things, but you are not allowed to drive this truck. Are you kidding me? Anywhere else
they can go across the river and go down here to another county, they can do everything. I
just have a real problem with people putting— I like the training. They need the training.
Let's do it. But let's do it smart and let's make it fair to where the volunteers get the same
thing. So, with that being said I want to hear what you have to say. I yield my minutes back
to the chair.
Mi Ran Powell: Thank you for allowing me the opportunity. I apologize, I will
quickly to try to make my five minutes. My name is Mi Ran and I am a resident of the
Town of Leesburg for almost 11 years. I live at 119 Shana Drive. I represent myself, the
individuals who were here last night as well as others. I am an actress and model and
therefore have a personal understanding of the way women are portrayed in the media and
the use of the female form. I was disappointed last night at the comments made specifically
by some of the male members of the Council as well as the Zoning Administrator
specifically and it is for this reason I have come tonight unprepared as I am to address some
of the comments that were made, but first I would like to read some excerpts from an email
I sent Council woman Suzanne Fox yesterday in preparation for the meeting. That a small
town tourist shop like Leesburg in the heart of one of the richest, most diverse and well
educated counties in the nation is on its way to becoming known for a one-stop fetish shop
catering to 50 shades of gray acolytes and there is nothing that the tax paying citizens can
do because of an oddly interpreted obscenity law is simply wrong. Laws are supposed to
protect the citizens and we have heard about the obscenity laws, is there not one for
indecent exposure that would include symbols or simulations such as mannequins. Is there
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not a more appropriate, G-rated, family friendly way to advertise this type of shop that
allows for all types of citizens, all ages of citizens, to enjoy. King Street is not in Baltimore.
Not in New York City, LA or Manassas. It is the main thoroughfare that parents use to
take their children to Ida Lee for classes. It is a destination town for shopping and taking in
restaurants for families. It is not yet the college town that Mr. Devine hopes it will become.
Le Tache is on one of the most prominent corners of the town where children cannot avoid
being exposed to inappropriate images. It mocks the very laws housed in the courthouse
across the street. I could go on ad infinitem about the negative messages it sends to my 15
year old daughter—that this is what she should strive for to be a sex object stared at lewdly
on the street corner. That the world only wants one thing from her in the end—that she is
vunerable. It is this kind of negative message to my 13 year old son that society approves of
looking at women in the most menial of objectified of ways that is feeding the international
epidemic of rape, torture and sex trafficking of young girls and women. It begins with the
desensitization of society and the eventual cultural acceptance of such views. It is any
wonder that the incidence of anxiety, depression, eating disorders and other self harming
behaviors are more rampant among girls than boys? I would urge you to more seriously
consider the impact that the accepted use of these images has on young people today. What
people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is their business and that is where it should
remain in their bedrooms, not uncensored. Not on public display and impossible for
citizens of all ages to avoid. It is also my right as a mother and woman to enjoy a safe and
respectful town environment and have a voice in the very town that takes my tax dollars
that is not representing the welfare of my family. If I have over gone my time, I will stop. I
have three statements that were mentioned last night that I would like to address. It is for
my children that I am here. That is the job of the generation that goes before to ensure that
their future is not in jeopardy of being sold for the profit of an unscrupulous [inaudible]
which is what I feel is being done to this town. A small town in America symbolizing the
decline across this country. Councilman Butler, you chose to go against the town council
sending a letter to the owner of La Tache because you said the town council should remain
neutral. I don't believe that any of you were voted into office to remain neutral to the
issues. I would appreciate further clarification of what that means. Furthermore, any
emails that you have received from the public, especially the citizens of Leesburg that
condemned the window displays, I feel you have an obligation to share with the owner as
well as the property owner. Regarding Councilman Dunn's suggestion that we simply
avoid patronizing the shop, that we close our eyes and pretend that this isn't there. That we
cannot picket—that we remain silent. That we keep the status quo is what brought us to
this place today—whips around the necks of scantily clad women because that is what they
are. The mannequins are symbols of women. Citizens have been complaining about the
shop from the beginning when it came to my attention, I did send an email to you about the
shop and there was no response. When one of the members of our group that was here last
night, when I asked her what she could do two years ago, she was told by a friend of yours
to remain silent and it would eventually go away. Silence for me means that I avoid driving
through the Town of Leesburg, shopping in the Town of Leesburg, going to restaurants in
the Town of Leesburg, bringing my children to the Town of Leesburg, bringing my husband
to the Town of Leesburg and even stopping [inaudible] at that traffic light so I can avoid
viewing a shop that offends my sensibilities, that challenges my desire to not see those
images. I am an adult. I can do that to protect myself and my children. But at what cost to
the town, so that it can cater not to its taxpaying citizens, but outside groups specifically
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seeking an adult entertainment store in the heart of horse country. There is a reason why
Middleburg does not have shops like this. There is a reason why the town of Upperville
where I am thankfully moving remains a sleepy town with few shops because it requires the
approval of the town's people to open a business there. What of the children? We heard a
lot about juveniles last night. What about the younger children? Do you think I am the
only family who has taken such severe measures because Leesburg is not a family friendly
town anymore. It is unfortunate that Leesburg has other sensibilities. Finally, I have
already mentioned the negative effects of the excessive use of the female form in this way on
young girls and boys. Your response and the response of the zoning administrator are
perfect examples of desensitization. The minimizing—the reduction of women and girls to
a piece of plastic. Le Tache is a known advertised adult entertainment store. It is not a
Victoria's Secret. The key word is adult. My children are not among those who are
dropped off at the mall and allowed to run wild without adult supervision because your
town of Leesburg is not the same venue as a shopping mall. The mannequins used by Le
Tache make it stick out like the ugly eye sore that it is in the heart of town and they are
impossible to avoid without avoiding the whole town altogether. If zoning approved it as a
lingerie store, I would think the town has been deceived and tolerance, it goes both ways.
Connie Graham: Thank you. This is my first time doing something like this, but I
felt it was important to be here. I was here last night as well with Ms. Powell and I
represent myself. I represent my husband and I represent my five children ages 11 as of
today through 22. Three boys and two girls and also feel like I represent posterity through
them—that is future posterity. Discussing the obscenity laws that were brought up last
night, I would like to share my concerns about the window displays at the Le Tache adult
lingerie store and how they affect my family and in my opinion, the community of
Leesburg. Ms. Powell said everything that I wish I could say beautifully. But, I do agree
that those displays objectify women and they send a real bad message to girls about their
bodies, to boys about the girls that live around them. I believe it encourages improper
treatment of women and girls and it encourages a disrespect that I am sad to see this
happening more and more in our society towards women. Last night, a comparison was
made relating this store to Victoria's Secret and I have to say I don't live at the mall. I don't
have to go to the mall. I can avoid going near those stores at the mall that may have
lingerie. There are images that I object to in newspapers and magazines and last night it
was brought up that we are surrounded by these images and we can't avoid them.
However, I can avoid purchasing a newspaper or a magazine that may have these images so
they are avoidable. There are risque and improper and inappropriate images on TV and in
movies, but I have the choice of going to those movies or turning on those TV shows.
However, in the heart of my town where I have lived for 15 '/2 years now there is a store that
has overtly sexual and inappropriate displays in their windows. It is a major thoroughfare
that provides one of only two ways to travel north from our neighborhood. I forgot to
mention that I live at 105 Cedargrove Place in Greenway Farms. Today is my daughter's
11t birthday. I should be and wanted to be home with her. But, I felt it was important
enough for the wellbeing of my daughter to come here tonight and advocate for a healthier
environment for her, an environment that sends her the message that she is not a sex object.
Last night, finally, it was discussed that there are trends in society and even the courts are
trending in certain directions. I want to say that just because things are trending in a certain
direction does not mean they are going in the right direction.
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
Doris Kidder: Madam Mayor, Madam Vice Mayor and Members of Council. I am
Doris Kidder, resident of Leesburg here to speak on behalf of the arts and skateboarding. I
know we just had an art presentation on the agenda, but I just wanted to remind you that
though the town established an arts and cultural district, it is virtually invisible. Art needs
an identity in Leesburg. We need signs or banners or flags letting people know letting
people know that we have an arts and cultural district and we need art that is visible. I am
going to give you a couple of ideas. One, we could start in the town parking garage, which
you know is gray and dark. We could—it is a blank canvas. We could have each school in
Leesburg be given a wall in the garage to decorate, to brighten with bright colors and we
need an information kiosk in the garage so people know where they are and where they can
go. Now, with this idea, this was brought up some 20 years ago by a former planning
director and it never went anywhere. Actually you guys could just give permission to staff
to dig up that idea and resurrect it. It wouldn't cost you anything to do that and the same
way with the garage walls— ask staff to bring forth some ideas for you to consider. So, those
were my ideas about the art. I will just end up with my favorite quote from the Virginia
Commission on the arts—there is an $8 return for every one dollar investment. Okay, now
I am moving on to skateboarding. I have asked [inaudible] to come up and help me.
Wanetta Langley. The August 3'cover of the New Yorker magazine featured a
skateboarder. [inaudible]. This was the August 3'cover of the New Yorker Magazine.
You will see a skateboarder soaring above the traffic in Manhattan. I think it is a great
photo. Thanks, Wanetta. Here is the next one. On September 4th, the Washington Post
had a double page photo of a skateboarder announcing Kennedy Center Surprise season
opening, which was creation of a temporary skate bowl on the front plaza. Did any of you
see that? The Kennedy Center actually constructed a skate bowl in their front plaza to have
combination jazz and skateboarding going on this week for the opening of their season. It
was a wooden structure— 30 pieces. The bowl will have a permanent home in the district.
So, that's that and then I have one more, if you will just bear with me. This was a
September 14th, again in the post on the front page of the Metro section. Again,
skateboarders are featured on the Washington Post. So, here is my point. Skateboarding
has become mainstream. I think it is pretty important that is happening and as such it
deserves to stay front and center on the main street, where it is on Catoctin Circle, which is
plainly visible as a town attraction. It is accessible all local residents and via the bike path to
all Northern Virginia. Thank you for bearing with me for my presentation.
The Petitioners Section was closed at 8:50 p.m.
9. APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA
On a motion by Vice Mayor Burk, seconded by Council Member Butler, the following items
were moved for approval as the Consent Agenda:
a. Performance Guarantee and Water and Sewer Extension Permits for Walmart#1904-
05(TLPF2014-0027)
RESOLUTION 2015-100
Authorizing an Agreement and Approving a Performance Guarantee and Water and
Sewer Extension Permits for Walmart Store #1904-05(TLPF 2014-0027)
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
b. License Agreement for Public Communication Facilities in Public Right-of-Way
RESOLUTION 2015-101
Authorizing the Town Manager to Execute a License Agreement Between the Town of
Leesburg and NOVEC Solutions, Inc.for Telecommunications Facilities in Town
Right-of Way
c. Commission on Public Art Project to Paint Town-Owned Snow Plow Blades
RESOLUTION 2015-102
Authorizing the Commission on Public Art to Approve Art to be Painted on Town-
Owned Snow Plow Blades
d. Awarding a Contract and Sole Source Procurement to Refurbish the Sand Filter
Facility and Equipment at the Water Pollution Control Facility by Aqua-Aerobic
Systems, Inc.
RESOLUTION 2015-103
Authorizing the Execution of a Contract Between the Town of Leesburg and Aqua-
Aerobic Systems, Inc.for Refurbishment of the Sand Filter Facility and Equipment at
the Water Pollution Control Facility;and Authorizing a Sole Source Procurement for
the Project and Authorizing the Town Manager to Procure these Services
e. Making An Appointment to the Commission on Public Art
RESOLUTION 2015-104
Making an Appointment to the Commission on Public Art—Cameron Orndorff
The Consent Agenda was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Burk, Butler, Fox, Dunn, Hammler, Martinez and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 7-0
10. PUBLIC HEARINGS
a. None.
11. RESOLUTIONS AND MOTIONS
a. Renewal of Memorandum of Understanding—Mason Enterprise Center
On a motion by Council Member Butler, seconded by Vice Mayor Burk, the following
was proposed:
RESOLUTION 2015-099
Authorizing the Mayor to Execute a Memorandum of Understanding
between the Town of Leesburg and the Mason Enterprise Center-Leesburg
Council Comments:
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
• Dunn: Just briefly, as mentioned earlier, it was my understanding that the
town was going to support funding for the center up until this point and then
at this point, they would support themselves. It is obviously not the case.
Just to point out a couple of numbers. You often talk about the county
paying their fair share. The town paying$66,000 compared to the County
paying$177,000—we are paying about 27%. If you look at the numbers, the
town pays in taxes in and population to the county, we should be paying
about 12% of that. But, again at this point I think we should be relieving
ourselves of having to pay anything towards the enterprise center. I think—I
am guessing the budget of George Mason is bigger than the budget of the
town of Leesburg. Just a guess, but I would think that it is. Also, I think that
the enterprise center is absorbing more costs, but I am not sure because it
didn't get mentioned when they decided to take on the SBDC, it sounded like
there was a cost there, so that cost is an additional cost, one that it sounds like
we are having to pay for that wasn't planned. So, I wish we weren't having to
pay this. It looks like we are going to go forward with it anyway, but I would
like to hope that next time around that the enterprise center is able to support
itself.
• Hammler: I will firmly support a continued partnership with Loudoun
County and George Mason. What I think is really important to understand is
what a force multiplier this investment is. We provide services all over the
town. You can look at Balch Library—we provide a service. We provide
parks and in many cases we don't get any return on investment relative to
direct revenue and we are getting—there has already been$35 million in
direct revenue generated,jobs being created which means presumably
property is being acquired—personal property taxes, perhaps real estate taxes.
We know that the businesses are statistically staying in town and I think it has
been a remarkable and tremendous kind of poster child for this great
partnership bringing in a university. We were trying to bring a university
prior to this — spent millions and millions of dollars trying to do that, but this
was our big hit getting on first base being able to bring in the type of services
that Mason has brought in the center. So, I fully support this and just wish it
continued success.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Burk, Butler, Dunn, Fox, Hammier, and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None.
Vote: 6-0-1 (Martinez absent)
b. School Intensity Factors
On a motion by Council Member Dunn, seconded by Vice Mayor Burk, the following
was proposed:
RESOLUTION 2015-105
To Update the School Capital Intensity Factors Previously Approved through
Resolution 2005-111
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
Council Comments:
• Dunn: Just briefly. These are funds that are directed by the county and funds
that in turn go back to the county for county schools that happen to be located
in Leesburg and at this point we don't have any hard factual concrete reason
for charging extra so I think we need to fall in line with the county funds
versus risking possible litigation.
• Burk: Well, this is a complicated issue. We have the county coming to us —
in our resolution we say the Town of Leesburg was requested by the Board of
Supervisors in 2005 to consider adopting the County's proffer guidelines for
the school capital construction, whereas the town adopted the per unit factors
for single family detached and the county updated per unit school capital
intensity factors December 2014, so we have the county telling us with the
schools that they would like us to collect a certain amount of money. And as
much as I would absolutely love to collect more money for the schools, I'd
love to have that as something we could do, I don't see how we can legally do
that when we have no justification or even idea what we would—what the
schools would spend the money for. I am a huge supporter of schools, school
funding. Again, I would love to be able to put that money—to keep it at the
higher level, but our own resolution says that we are doing what the Board of
Supervisors requested of us and what they are requesting is not as much
money as we had previously asked for. So, that is why I seconded this
because I don't know how we could possibly say to anyone coming in to do
business in the town, we are going to charge you more than the county is
asking for. We don't have anything to do with the schools. We are not sure
where the money will go, but we are going to charge you more. So, I think
we are on really shaky ground by doing that kind of thing. I do question—I
would like to add a number 6 that we put some wording in there that talks
about that after we receive assurance from Loudoun County that the funds
are going to be used for schools in Leesburg, that we authorize the collection
of those proffers and then when we get them, they go to the County rather
than—I don't think it is specific enough in here telling us how the money is
going to get there. I think it is important to come out and say that we—you
know that the funds will be used for schools in Leesburg and that they are
authorized to collect them and we are going to transfer those to the county in
a very timely manner. So, that would be something I would like to see added
to it. As much as I would like to ask for more money, I don't see how we can
do it. Until someone can tell me how we as a town, who have nothing to do
with the school system, can ask for more money than the school system is
asking for, that the county is asking for, I don't know how we can sustain that
and defend it. So, that's where I am stuck.
• Martinez: I think Kelly said it well enough.
• Hammier: I agree with Kelly's reasoning as well. We are doing this
begrudgingly for so many reasons I have already mentioned, based on what
seems reasonable to me with even the recent discussion about all of a sudden
new policies like all-day kindergarten, that could very substantially change
this sort of equation in terms of you know capital dollars needed to achieve
some of the policy you know priorities that the community is going to be
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
asking for and that it sends a message that we are basically creating additional
incentives for residential development by lowering the school capital intensity
factors. That being said, I agree with the fact that both Tom and Kelly had
mentioned which is that we have to be in alignment with the county just
based on the research and methodology that they brought forward to the table
and my other frustration is that we did not pass our own study and certainly
will look forward to still figuring out how the staff can get involved in the
overall capital intensity factors for the town. Just look at the next ordinance
that we are passing—you know, proffers in terms of you know contributions
to fire and rescue for example and our police aren't being represented. So, I
think we have work to do, but I will have to begrudgingly support what is on
the table with this motion tonight.
• Fox: Thank you. I have a couple of questions related—no initial comments.
Is it okay to go with questions? According to the staff report, there is
precedent that we have trusted the county in the past when it comes to the
CIF. So, I am wondering if the reason we are questioning it this time is
because of a decrease instead of an increase? Is that the general feeling here?
Okay. I was also wondering why down further and no geographic area
restrictions—it says here for the updated resolution staff does not recommend
retention of Section III in resolution 2005-111. I was wondering why the staff
does not support retaining that. I wasn't clear on that.
Staff answer: The 2005 resolution was fairly specific about when proffer
money is collected in a portion of Leesburg and the children from that
development will go to, say it's Loudoun County high school, but there are
no projects in the school and county CIP for Loudoun County High School,
then we can't spend that money any place else in Leesburg. The 2005
resolution was very limiting in terms of that. Now, rather than building
schools, the school board is really looking at programs to continue
maintenance or provide additions or doing other things in terms of capital
construction in Leesburg, so we want to be able to be as flexible as possible to
direct that proffer money that we collect to the schools in Leesburg and the
projects for the various schools in Leesburg, not just where the school
children may be districted.
• Fox: Makes sense to me. Is there a wording that is going to replace this
wording? Or is it just going to be stricken?
Staff answer: I think the resolution just directs that the money be used for
schools in Leesburg.
• Butler: I won't be supporting this resolution because I think it encourages
residential development and yeah, we can't legally require $21,000 a house.
We can't really legally require $19,000 a house either. So, some of the
concerns that I have are it doesn't seem to be that there is no methodology
when they calculated the new numbers but there are some pieces of
methodology that concern me. One, for instance is that the school board—
the county estimates the total population of growth for the county on a county
wide basis, which is about 2.5%. They don't break it down specifically by
subarea. Some of that part, you can let it go and say it doesn't really matter
because if we need to spend more money on schools in Leesburg then they
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
expect then they will get money from somewhere else because we just are not
going to have the money to give them so it's just too bad for them. But, a
bigger concern is that the subareas that the capital intensity factors come into
place is just Leesburg whereas it doesn't match the subarea for the schools,
which is—the subarea goes north and south. So, the capital intensity factor
equations assuming that there is going to be one more elementary school in
Leesburg. The school board equations don't call that out specifically. You
can't find one elementary school in Leesburg. They do it by a larger region,
which like I said goes up both north and south of Leesburg, so the new
schools may or may not be in Leesburg depending on where the kids are,
where they find land, where it might be deeded through developments or
whatever. Another concern is that, for instance, the reason why the number
went down significantly in Leesburg primarily is that with one elementary
school—it assumes one elementary school is going to be built. It assumes no
middle schools and no high schools. So, therefore, what it does is it takes the
total amount of capital money that a kid would use going through school and
it takes 6/13 of that because the child would spend six years in elementary
school and the other seven years, middle school and high school— it doesn't
take that into account so that's basically free because they don't expect
another middle school or high school to be built within the planning zone of
the estimates. So, that's great, but what that means is one of two things—
either currently our high schools are at half capacity that would be able to fill
up a certain number of children over the next coming number of years or kids
in Leesburg would be placed in a high school outside of Leesburg and it
would be those regions whose proffers would be higher that would be paying
for additional middle schools or high schools. It is all kind of complicated,
but what it turns out to be is because they have done it by these subareas and
these subareas don't match each other, that it is very likely that every two
years, the proffer numbers could change radically because let's say in six years
that for some reason there would be another high school in Leesburg, well
then our proffers are going to go up a lot because we are all of a sudden going
to be factoring in a high school in there, so it might go to $35,000-40,000 for a
couple of years as opposed the $19,000 that we have now. So, I have
concerns about the methodology and I think what it does when it is low, it is
going to encourage more development and then it is going to encourage more
schools and then a new school is going to [inaudible] then the proffer
numbers are going to go way up so it is going to discourage development. So,
it is all going to work out in the end over a long period of time. But, I have
concerns about it and I think that Leesburg—I am concerned about such a
significant drop in proffers, but the bottom line is that I don't really care that
much whether it passes or not because over a long period of time, it is all
going to come out in the wash and they are going to update it every two years
so I just hope that if the numbers change radically every two years that they
adjust their methodology to take it into account and that's probably a much
longer answer than any of you in the audience [inaudible] but I thought it
would be interesting for Council.
• Mayor: Thanks Dave. I thought you made some very good points.
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
• Dunn: Thanks, Dave, you brought up one of the points I was going to make,
which was the fact that if they change it, we will change right along with it in
just a couple of years. Just to put in a little bit of perspective. A 1000 unit
development, this is $10 million. We don't have any 1000 unit developments
on the books. Anything close to that, right Suzanne? And that$10 million a
development is very, very small. That's a drop in the bucket to a developer.
Ten million dollars is ten million dollars. But I don't agree that this is going
to encourage development. I don't think that we are going to have a lot of
folks showing up at your office, Susan, saying that now that we have lowered
this they are going to come in and put in a huge development. This
unfortunately does not work that way. It takes a lot more, so. I think we are
okay. I think that as Dave said when the county says that we have to raise it,
we will raise it and move on from there. Thank you.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Burk, Fox, Dunn, Hammler, and Martinez
Nay: Butler and Mayor Umstattd
Vote: 5-2
Vice Mayor Burk asked for clarification as to whether her change in the
wording to indicate that school CIF money will be used for schools in Leesburg was
accepted. It was noted that language was not included as it is part of the process that
is already in place.
c. Police Appreciation Day
On a motion by Council Member Dunn, seconded by Council Member Martinez, the
following was proposed:
RESOLUTION 2015-106
To Recognize Thursday, October 15, 2015 as Leesburg Police Appreciation Day
Council Comments:
• Dunn: I just thought that this would be a good way for us to say thank you,
especially to our thin blue line that is here in Leesburg with so much of the
negative press and negative actions that we see going on in many parts of the
country right now, I thought that this would be a good way for us to just say
thank you to our officers for having a day set aside just to say thanks and
offering them a very small token of gratitude by inviting them to a meal before
or after their shift and Kaj, we are going to have the families on that too?
Staff answer: Yes, they are invited.
• Dunn: And when you are a first responder, it is not just you, it is your
families because they have to live with your decision every day and they don't
have as much say in it. You guys would know more of that than I do. I am
glad that we are able to also invite the families in and I want to thank Kaj and
the Chief for really pulling this together. They actually have some great ideas
that I think we may be able to build on in the future and hopefully even bring
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
in some corporate sponsorship that could help with that and really make it a
nice day for the families.
• Martinez: I just agree with Tom and I was glad he brought this up and we
were able to make it a reality.
• Butler: I agree, this is a great thing. I look forward to attending.
• Burk: Fine, great. Ready to support it.
• Hammler: I will enthusiastically support. It gives me the opportunity to say
thank you to all of our police officers who work 24/7 to keep us safe. I
appreciate it.
• Fox: I agree 100%. Anything that we can do to show them that we appreciate
them, I think is a good idea. Thanks for bringing this up, Tom.
• Mayor: Very good idea. Our police officers exercise tremendous restraint
every day, are extremely responsible individuals and members of the
community. We already have a corporate sponsor, John Marshall Bank, is
very interested in donating to this cause. So, good idea.
• Dunn: Once every six years I'll do one.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Burk, Butler, Dunn, Fox, Hammler, Martinez, and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None.
Vote: 7-0
d. Skatepark
On a motion by Council Member Martinez, seconded by Vice Mayor Burk, the
following was proposed to move the skatepark to the gravel lot next to its current location:
RESOLUTION
Approving the Physical Location for the Redevelopment of the Catoctin Skatepark
Council Comments/Questions:
• Martinez: I don't think I need to beat this to death.
• Burk: I am going to beat it a little further. I think—I appreciate the
Rescue Squad's input in this and I understand where they are coming
from. They most certainly need more room and I am glad we will be
able to provide them with that, but I think that moving it over to the
gravel lot is where it needs to go at this point. It is walkable. It is close
to the trails. It is close to the rescue when they break their arms. The
town owns the land. In the future, you know, this has been here for ten
years. It had to be redone—ten years from now, we will have to look
at it again to see where we are. But, it serves a part of the town that is
underserved now and I think it is really important to leave it in the
location where it is located and it is known that it is there. I think that
by moving it to the park, I think we end up with it is not walkable any
longer. It can't be lit, so it won't be useful in the winter and the fall.
The Parks and Rec does not want it at Ida Lee. So many of the
recreational amenities are on that side of town and I think, as I said
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
before, I think the other side is underserved, so I most certainly would
like to see it stay where it is and just moved over to the gravel lot so
that the rescue squad could expand and we could keep the park there.
Council Member Hammler offered a friendly amendment to accept the contribution of
the Fire and Rescue as directed in their letter and follow-up email that would be the differential
between the original amount allocated and the amount it will take to move it to the gravel lot.
It was clarified that amount is$200,000.
Council Member Martinez did not accept the amendment as friendly.
On a motion to amend by Council Member Hammler, seconded by Council Member
Butler, a motion was made to accept$200,000 as offered by the Rescue Squad enable the move
to the gravel lot.
Council Comments:
• Butler: I think the whole the reason to move the park over to the
gravel lot was to accommodate the rescue squad, so I think to not
include that at this point, I don't know why it would make sense to not
include it.
• Fox: I have no comments on this motion, although I do not support
the motion Katie just made.
• Dunn: Suzanne, did you say the motion that Katie just made? I
thought you said Dave at first. I had a bit of an issue with the
$200,000 seeing that the cost is supposed to be $260,000. I understand
the membership's desire to keep this cost down, but I also have to
really beckon the membership and the town. The rescue squad is a
county function and I think you all are doing—raising funds for the
expansion yourself. Are you getting any funds from the county for
that? Okay, the county is already—there were as far as I know at least
three other rescue squads that received county funds for their
expansions and I am not sure why you all don't want to go after
county funds unless it is a control issue and I guess if that is what you
want, but I do not think that your desires to not seek county funds that
they have already paid to other rescue squads that we should lay this
burden on the taxpayers.
• Rescue Squad: We haven't decided how we are going to proceed with
building or expanding our property. [inaudible] there are strings
attached to the county funds [inaudible] not as attractive [inaudible].
• Dunn: And the only reason I am asking is because when you were at
another meeting we had that discussion, I asked that specific question
about where is the funds coming from and when do you see yourself
building this out and I think the response was 2 '/2 years. So, if you
have an idea of when you are going to be able to do it, you must have
some idea of how you are going to fund it. Again, my only issue is I
would rather see this be fully funded by the rescue squad because you
have the ability to go after county funds. You are a county function
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
and if you are choosing not to have strings attached with the county, it
makes it tough for me to say well then I am going to have the
taxpayers pay the extra amount so that you all can have more
flexibility in dealing with the county. I would rather see that you are
paying the full cost to have us move this because my understanding is
you are not being charged anything for leasing the property, is that
correct?
Staff answer: I believe that is correct. You are not being charged.
• Rescue Squad: [inaudible] correct.
• Dunn: So, there is no charge for that. You are a county function.
You don't want to use county funds for expansion but you want us to
discount the cost to move the park's footprint so you can have space,
which I am all for, but it is shorting the amount of the cost. You are
only wanting to pay $200,000 when it should be approximately
$260,000.
• Rescue Squad: [inaudible] take that into consideration. [inaudible].
• Dunn: And they are already giving you roughly that in an annual
donation. I don't know what it is, $300 something. So, I would—who
made the motion? I would feel more inclined to make it$260,000, but
along with Marty's point, I don't know if adding it at this point is
something that is required. Should we do that now, or is this
something we can work out in negotiations moving forward?
Staff answer: I think so, you can.
• Mayor: Which one?
• Dunn: I guess the amount of donation from the squad for moving the
footprint.
• Mayor: As in you want further negotiations.
• Dunn: Marty is saying you don't need to do it right now. Katie has
made a motion to do it now and...
• Martinez: The reason why I am saying you don't need to do it now is
if we say $200,000 and we are stuck. We can't go higher and we can't
lower depending on...
• Mayor: No, I wouldn't agree with that. The way Katie phrased her
motion was to accept$200,000 if the rescue squad decides it wants to
add$60,000 or$40,000, they have that right and the town would have
the right to accept it. So, I don't think we are limited.
• Martinez: I just don't like the perception that goes out.
• Fox: Just something real quick. I got my motions mixed up a little
bit, so I apologize. I do support, you know, the $200 whether
$260,000. I think I would go for $260,000 as well, but not the main
motion.
• Hammler: Was it a friendly amendment or not? It is confusing.
• Dunn: From me? Is that what you are asking. We got off track.
• Hammler: I don't think we actually made the friendly...
• Dunn: I haven't yet, but I am trying to still figure out whether we
have to put this whole dollar amount in now or not.
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
• Burk: Let's ask Kaj.
• Hammler: Well the point I would make and Kaj can please respond—
at least we are on record as accepting what's in the letter that has been
submitted and to your point, if there are any additional negotiations, I
don't think that is mutually exclusive, we just are on record as
acknowledging it and accepting it as part of our discussions this
evening.
• Dunn: My issue would be then if we are accepting something and it is
putting it in writing, then it should be the amount that we would rather
see. So, I am either inclined to go with Marty and say don't put any
dollar amount in or if we are putting a dollar in, make it the dollar
amount that is needed to move the property.
• Hammler: Is that a friendly amendment or it is up to you.
Council Member Dunn offered a friendly amendment to change the amount to
$260,000. The amendment was accepted as friendly by Council Member Hammler, but not by
Council Member Butler.
Council Comments:
• Butler: I've got two issues. One is that I am still of the mind of why
would we move the park at all if we are not going to figure out how to
give it to the rescue squad, but the second thing is the $260,000 since it
includes a 20% contingency, which we may not spend. I don't want to
take $260 from the rescue squad and end up paying$220.
• Mayor: Right.
• Butler: Or$200 but on the other hand, I don't want to say that it is
actual cost because then there might be overruns and it might be $350
or something. Since we pay the rescue squad a significant amount, I
don't really care whether the amount is $200. I think$200 is fine.
You know, $60,000 over 20 years is a rounding error and there is all
kinds of opportunities every budget to figure it all out. I think I would
rather stick with the $200.
• Mayor: I am going to take that as a rejection of Tom's friendly
amendment. Tom, I'm not going to let you make a motion to amend
at this point, but you will get a chance to make it after we vote on this
first amendment. Otherwise this is going to become too convoluted.
So, we have Katie's motion seconded by Dave. Katie, your initial
motion to amend was for$200. Dave has not accepted a friendly
amendment to raise that to $260, so are you comfortable going
forward with a vote on the motion to amend at $200 at this time?
• Hammier: I am hesitating answering in as much as there may be a
way to better phrase this based on the variables that we are all trying to
get to. I think we are all trying to get to the same place—accepting the
contribution of Fire and Rescue to the best of their, you know,
building ability from their membership to offset the differential in cost
but to the extent that we need to keep this simple, my answer is yes.
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
• Burk: I would just like to say, I don't know how you can say $260
when they have offered $200. It doesn't make any sense to me.
• Mayor: The amount we are dealing with is $200 right now.
• Burk: Okay, so that's why I was supporting it.
The motion to accept$200,000 from the Rescue Squad was approved by the following
vote:
Aye: Burk, Butler, Fox, Hammier, and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: Dunn and Martinez
Vote: 5-2
Council Comments:
• Butler: I didn't have a chance to speak on the main motion, so let me
just speak quick. I think this has been a difficult process because all
the way through I know and people are bringing some fairly persuasive
arguments about moving the skatepark. We have checked at least
three different places to see whether it may be feasible to move it there
and what the pluses and minuses would be and you know I appreciate
everybody's comments. Suzanne has made some very excellent
comments about the whole thing and doodled around a whole bunch
of things. The primary reason I am going to support moving the
skatepark to the gravel lot—the primary reason that gives me pause
why I wouldn't is because it is definitely going to be disruptive to
Dulles Motorcars. I don't know how disruptive. I mean the parking
lot itself is small, compared to the total lot so I think that is easily
overcome, but I think there is still the issue of a lot of skate parkers in
the area is somewhat disruptive to his property and business, or could
be. So, that gives me some pause, but then I weigh all the factors,
pluses and minuses all around, I will support the Vice Mayor's motion.
The one thing I would like to make a friendly amendment.
Council Member Butler offered a friendly amendment to initiate the process to
subdivide the lot so that the town can allow the Rescue Squad to build on half
• Dentler: Madam Mayor, at this point, I would like for the town
attorney to give you some information on what you are—some of the
things that you need to address before you go further in your vote if
you are going to move the skate park and really lease the existing
footprint of the skate park.
• Butler: We are not talking leasing. I just asked to subdivide because I
would be completely against a lease. That is a nother conversation.
You have to subdivide at any case.
• Notar: The main thing you have to keep in mind right now is the
motion, as it is now, one cannot build across a lot line. Remember,
how it is now, is the town owns the skatepark property and the rescue
squad owns the rescue squad property. It was donated to the rescue
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
squad by the town many years ago by a deed of gift. So they own that
land. There is a reversionary clause, meaning if they leave, the land
comes back but it is owned by them. Under the town zoning
ordinance, you cannot build a building across a lot line. So, if you are
going to move the skate park over to the gravel lot, the rescue squad
could build another building, but they could not expand over that lot
line.
• Butler: Which is why the first step is to subdivide the land and then
they have to combine the two lots. That is the only way they would be
able to do what they want to do.
• Notar: Well, so if you are going to subdivide that land, you may need
six votes.
• Butler: I'm not subdividing.
• Martinez: The question here is all we are doing is making a motion
that we want to move the skate park to the gravel lot and we are
leasing or giving or however we want to do it to the rescue squad to
allow them to expand. Everything else, I am assuming that once this
resolution passes, [inaudible] that you are going to go and look at all of
the things that we need to do to make it work and I do not want to sit
here tonight and hash it out for the next two hours and micromanage
what you are going to be doing anyway.
• Dunn: Can I offer this in conversation? If we look at the resolution,
Marty, there is nothing in there about the rescue squad. There is
nothing saying that we can't go forward, approve the moving of the
skate park tonight and deal with the rescue squad at another time.
• Martinez: That's what I am saying.
• Dunn: Dollars, subdividing, everything. If we know we want to do
that, let's just get the skate park passed. Move it over to the other side
of the lot and then we work with the rescue squad and everything else.
I think there are too many moving parts to this to get it done tonight.
• Martinez: Right. And the resolution says skate park moves to gravel
lot to allow rescue expansion and that's what the resolution is and
that's where we need to go and anything after this, we definitely need
to talk about and you need to let us know what we have to do and how
many votes we need to have to get it done.
• Dunn: This resolution doesn't say anything about expansion.
• Dentler: We are happy to do that. That is not a problem. We are
prepared to give you all of the options tonight. We can do that the
next step. We just don't want you to not know something you may
wish to know tonight. That's all. If that makes sense.
• Butler: Okay, what if we do this then. Here is what I am not
comfortable with. I am not comfortable with moving the skate park
and then for some reason the whole thing with the rescue squad falls
through because then we have spent$260,000 pretty much for nothing.
So, what if we put in there how about if I make this as a friendly
amendment?
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
Council Member Butler offered a friendly amendment to remove the amendment that
was just made about the$200,000 and then put a clause in about locating the skate park to say
that we don't move forward with the skate park project until they have handed out what we are
going to do with the rescue squad.
• Martinez: Again, the scope of the resolution, you have accepted the
fact that they are going to give us $200,000. I think that is
commitment enough to let us go and move forward and get this thing
done.
• Burk: We can't hold off on the skate park anymore. We are months
and months behind.
• Butler: We are not, but the point is why move it and spend$260,000 if
we don't know what we are going to do with the rescue squad. The
only point to moving it is to accommodate the rescue squad. So, why
would we commit to $260,000 when we are not committed to the
rescue squad.
• Martinez: That amount was not accepted as a friendly amendment.
• Mayor: Got it. Got it. Dave, had you wanted to pursue your
previous friendly amendment to initiate process to subdivide the lot, or
did you want to drop that?
• Butler: Marty has not accepted that as friendly, so I would like to
make that as a motion.
Council Member Butler made a motion to amend the main motion to add starting the
process to subdivide the lot to give the rescue squad comfort that their$200,000 is actually going
to be used to acquire some land.
• Mayor: Barbara, are you comfortable with the concept that
subdivision of the land will cure the cross border problem?
• Notar: Subdivision of the land does not require six votes, but once
you subdivide and if you sell or donate to the rescue, you would still
need six votes. I just think at least unless I am misunderstanding Mr.
Butler's motion, subdividing moves the process forward and I
understand that and you could do that now and that helps us go
forward, but you are still going to be faced with the problem later on
what you do with the land. Once you subdivide, yes, I understand the
lot line will disappear and that's good, but there still may be a vote
problem in the future. You will still be under the same constraints,
because it is still our land. It is just now two lots.
• Butler: Yeah, but it certainly would not ever be a park. We can
discuss that at a different time, and I can't imagine if we subdivide the
land and we get$200,000 from the rescue squad and we build the skate
park, I can't imagine that there would be any council member that
would then vote against providing the land to the rescue squad.
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
• Notar: And that may be so, but I don't—I couldn't agree that it
wouldn't be a park anymore once you subdivide. I would still think
you would need the six votes.
• Mayor: Dave, are making a motion to add the subdivision land?
• Butler: Yes, and that's basically to protect the rescue squad.
The motion was seconded by Council Member Hammler.
• Butler: I don't know why we would be adding the $200,000 in the
motion and not be giving the rescue squad some assurance that they
are actually going to be able to build on the land that we are supposed
to provide.
• Fox: I will support the subdivision.
• Martinez: Other than the fact that I am really frustrated that this is
just a simple motion to move the skate park to the gravel lot and then
you have got a $200,000 commitment from the Fire and Rescue, that
shouldn't be part of the discussion and now we are going to subdivide
lots, which shouldn't be part of the discussion. We are micromanaging
what our town staff should be doing, not what the council should be
doing. That is not our job.
• Burk: I will vote for that,just to get this done. I don't think it is
necessary. I agree with Marty, but you know if we have to
micromanage, we have to micromanage. Let's get this done so they
know what we are doing and we can get the skate park moved and get
going.
• Dunn: Respectfully, Kelly, only because you are the one that
mentioned it, it is probably a feeling that other people have, but I don't
think we should be making a vote just to get something done. I
understand where you are coming from. I think that there is too many
questions still involved with this whole subdivision. It not necessary.
I don't think that if we vote on this tonight, to move the skate park,
and whatever the funding is from the rescue squad that they have any
inkling that we are not going to let them have that property and to say
tonight that we are going to go through a subdivision process not even
knowing if we can, is completely out of order. So, I would not feel—
you can say no to this motion and still just as quickly move this thing
forward. I won't be supporting it.
• Mayor: Barbara, is there any other advice that you would like to give
the council before we have a vote on the subdivision aspect?
• Notar: I think I have said everything I can think of— is that
subdividing helps move the process forward and it gets rid of the
boundary line problem, but you then will still— once you subdivide,
there is still going to be an issue of a text amendment that will have to
be passed by this council under the Crescent Design District. There is
standards for development of the rescue squad.
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
• Burk: Would you say that it would be better to leave it as clear as we
had it or is it better to add the subdivision.
• Notar: I would leave it—phrase your motion to give us direction and
then I would let us work out the details to the best of our ability. If we
can't work it out, then we will have to come back to you, but there are
steps we need to take. We understand your intent. It sounds like you
want to move the skate park over to allow the rescue squad for
expansion. There are steps that need to be done to the zoning
ordinance. We will have to advise you as to the votes that you need.
There may be a subdivision that is required so I guess the more open
ended that your resolution is, the better off staff will be to accomplish
that.
• Dunn: The other question I have is are we doing something that
affects the park status by subdividing this, and are we removing the
park status from the subdivision portion? Is this a way of us usurping
state code to get around the sale of a property?
• Notar: and that's what I was saying is that I would advise against, so
even though you subdivided, once you subdivide it, let me say it that
way. Once you subdivide it, you can still lease the property over to the
rescue squad and that does not take six votes, but if you donate it or
give it to the rescue squad it is still going to take six votes. So,
subdividing only alleviates the boundary line issue. Now they can
expand over, but once again, yes you can lease it. But not you have
leased property to an organization that is going to put a building on
land— do you see what I am saying?
• Burk: So, let's just make it as clean as possible.
The motion to add in language to initiate the process to subdivide the lot,failed by the
following vote:
Aye: Butler and Hammier
Nay: Burk, Dunn, Fox, Martinez, and Mayor Umstattd
Vote: 2-5
Council Member Dunn made a motion to take out the$200,000.
• Hammier: Based on the discussion this evening, I had originally made
a motion to accept what was directed in the letter and email and after
that somebody else decided on a figure. Because of the additional
conversation, it does seem that there would be a much more
streamlined direction to staff, which would have been helpful if
Council had just received that verbiage this evening knowing what you
know that we don't know which are all the things you know you have
to work out but you could make a motion basically summarizing that
but in memory of the two previous amendments that redirect staff to
negotiate with Fire and Rescue based on their letter and email about
contributions differential of the cost to move the skate park as well as
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
our additional zoning and legal requirements to accommodate moving
the skate park.
• Dunn: Well all that is going to happen anyway. It is all part of the
process. Right, Marty?
• Martinez: I feel like being ironic and saying I second your motion, but
I can't.
The motion was seconded by Council Member Butler.
• Butler: I'll second it because I think there is no point in taking any
money from the rescue squad if we are not committed to giving them
half the land.
• Burk: We are committed to it.
• Butler: No, we are not. We are thinking about it and we are talking
about it. But until we have the details, [inaudible] we are not
committed until we vote on it. If we can't vote on it all, then we really
shouldn't be moving forward.
• Dunn: The only other thing I would say, and Kelly and Marty know
in my discussions about this, is that this started with funding a skate
park. That is where we started in the CIP. I wasn't exactly thrilled
that we were moving it forward but that bridge has been crossed. This
is nothing against you guys. You are trying to do what is best for the
squad. The squad has interjected themselves into this discussion and
that is where we are now. I just don't think that we are ready to
finalize our discussions with the squad tonight. To try and talk about
subdividing and funding and based off of some emails and notes, I just
don't think we are there. I would rather just say we are going to work
with the squad. We need to go forward. If we want to put a date on it
for your department, Rich, so you can start design, I would say—I
know you are going to hate this, Marty, that we have these final
discussions done in two weeks. But, I think to do it in two minutes.
• Martinez: I agree.
• Hammier: So, are you going to table it?
• Dunn: No, no, no. I am not saying table it. I say pass this resolution
as it is. As simple as it is right here. Let's finalize discussions and give
Rich October 1 date or whatever two weeks are—next meeting, that's
when the design starts. By that time, we have time to discuss....
• Martinez: Actually, they can start design now.
• Burk: Right, as soon as we pass this, they can start design.
• Dunn: Okay.
• Martinez: And the discussion with the rescue squad can all be a side
discussion that the town, we let them do their job and work it out.
• Dunn: My motion is we take the funding out of the motion.
• Hammier: Would that not be rescinding a part of the motion, which
would require someone other than Tom to make such a motion?
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
• Mayor: Theoretically, but let's give up arguing that point. My big
question is for those members of Council who think that the $200,000
was important because I would like to get this resolved tonight. Will
we lose support for this motion if Tom and Dave's motion to remove
the $200,000 passes?
• Hammier: Madam Mayor, I actually think we are all saying the same
thing, but unfortunately the language wasn't presented for Council to
very succinctly embrace that we know that there are things that we as a
council want represented this evening so that staff is directed to
negotiate and accept the contribution to offset the differential in cost
and all the related things that have to happen. I believe we are all
trying to get to that end. I felt it important to express that in the
motion so that would happen. I am open to—if we have said enough
on the dais that is the direction to staff, I have no problem supporting
the motion, but other than having it in the motion I have no other
indication that is going to happen.
• Mayor: Okay, the reason I am asking is I am not going to support the
motion to amend if I am going to lose your vote. That's as direct as I
can be. I don't want to see this thing go down in flames because of
their motion to remove the $200,000.
• Hammier: You will not lose my support except that I don't want to
lose $60,000 if they are going to contribute the entire amount as well as
I would expect and they have in fact directed so this is where
ultimately I am happy to figure out the best language to make sure that
Council's will is represented in the motion.
• Dunn: I don't think that we have a problem going forward tonight
with the resolution to move the skate park over to the gravel portion. I
think that our negotiations with the rescue squad can be separate.
• Hammler: You should say that. That's all you have to say.
• Dunn: You didn't have to say anything about the rescue squad
tonight.
• Butler: Point of order. If you pass Tom's motion, I think we are back
to the original resolution that was in the packet.
• Dunn: Exactly. My point, Katie, and I know you have been there and
many people on Council too, is that again this is a county function and
once again the citizens of Leesburg are having to saddle some of that
burden of supporting a county function and that is where the rub is.
• Hammier: I guess just to simplify it. At this point, Kaj, as town
manager, I think you have heard enough from the Council, what do
you recommend that we do if necessary to amend this motion, if at all.
• Martinez: I don't—you know....
• Hammler: Because he is going to have the direction to proceed so I
think he needs to know....
• Martinez: I think Kaj is a big boy and he can figure it out. I mean you
are wearing your big boy pants, right?
• Hammler: I don't appreciate your sarcasm.
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
• Martinez: I don't appreciate that you have a basic, simple resolution
and everybody has to sit there and [inaudible].
• Hammler: It's not that simple [inaudible] didn't make the original
motion. So, that's my question.
• Mayor: We do have Dave and I think Tom's motion to remove the
language about$200,000.
• Butler: Which brings it back to the original.
The motion to remove the language regarding the$200,000 failed by the following vote:
Aye: Martinez, Butler, and Dunn.
Nay: Fox, Hammier, Burk and Mayor Umstattd.
Vote: 3-4
Council Member Dunn made a motion to change the amount to$260,000 to cover the
full cost of the relocation. The motion was seconded by Council Member Hammier.
• Dunn: Just real quick. If we are going to have the funding, it might as
well be the full funding.
The motion to increase the$200,000 to$260,000 was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Fox, Hammier, Martinez, and Dunn
Nay: Burk, Butler, and Mayor Umstattd
Vote: 4-3
• Mayor: Just be aware, if the rescue squad is getting nervous that the
town does contribute funds every year. Theoretically, I suppose the
town could deduct from those funds to cover the $60,000, if it wanted
to.
• Butler: So, so far what we have is we are going to move skate park
and it is going to cost us another$260,000. We are going to get it from
the rescue squad. There is no particular—but we haven't figured out a
process on how to get there yet, so we are not micromanaging by
asking for a process we are not micromanaging the staff. What we are
doing is we are doing our job and making votes to commit to what we
are doing. This is a horrible resolution and it's [inaudible] the rescue
squad. If I were you, I would go out of here very nervous and very
worried because it is still going to be a long time before Council has
committed to actually providing you this land yet we are going to put a
skate park on it with a half empty lot, which we hope at some point is
going to go to the rescue squad. This is not good government in
action.
• Mayor: I'm basically fundamentally with Dave that the rescue squad
should be nervous. I think that every member of Council has
expressed their desire to accommodate the rescue squad's expansion,
maybe not as much as some of us might have wanted. I would have
been happy to support moving the skate park to Ida Lee so that the
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
squad could expand over the next 20 years into the entire parcel, but I
think getting something—providing them with room to expand now is
better than nothing. I don't think they are in the dark of our process.
Staff has worked out the process already. We didn't give them an
opportunity tonight to go over it, but they have already briefed the
rescue squad on what that process has to be. Barbara mentioned the
text amendment, subdivision, etc. We don't need six votes to move
the skate park to the gravel lot.
• Butler: But we need six votes to give them the land and so if we...
• Hammier: This has been a long time in coming, so I am sorry, Marty,
that is going to ten o'clock and beyond but it has turned into a
complicated issue given a lot of different variables where we were
trying to accommodate a lot of very important constituencies.
Including the fact that I appreciate Suzanne coming forward with
trying to take the time to create a partnership with the school board. I
would have been very open to taking the extra time, even selling the
land in order to get the skate park to the best possible place where it
could have offset the most cost, where we could have potentially sold
the land, recouped perhaps $2.9 million or at least a good portion of
that that we may have donated part of the land to the fire and rescue
given as much land as you needed. Ultimately that requires a super
majority. So, once it became obvious that there was not support for
selling any of the park land then I think the options were in fact
reduced to finding the best possible solution at that point. I just want
to summarize by saying because it has been such a community wide
effort, I appreciate everything that the parks and recreation
commission has done, that staff has done, to bring all of the additional
research. I appreciate the time the fire and rescue department has
spent with us individually so we can fully understand your needs
which is really important in this process. I appreciate Mr. Saghafi who
has very specific needs for his business and because of all of those
things and everybody working towards a positive end, I will be
supporting the resolution this evening.
• Fox: I am in the minority. I support the rescue squad's request to
move the skate park to Ida Lee. I think that moving it to the gravel lot
is a band aid and I don't support that. I feel like there could have been
a lot of winners here. There is a lot of problem solving going on here
and I think there is a scenario where all parties and all stakeholders
could have been served and served well and I am sad that is not going
to happen. I think Dulles Motorcars has been left out of this equation.
I feel pretty bad for them. They are a well-respected business and now
they are going to not have their problems alleviated with this vote.
The rescue squad is a function of our commitment to health, safety
and welfare of the town and I feel like we are putting recreation above
that. I don't support that. I feel like we have a recreation center in Ida
Lee and this would fit in with the active nature of Ida Lee now. I see
the skaters wanting a park, which I agree with. I think they want it
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
regional in nature, which I think Ida Lee is more conducive to, not just
this little gravel lot on Catoctin Circle. I would rather have the rescue
squad be in a central location than I would the skate park and I think
the taxpayers lost out here with the passing, you know, with not
considering the sale of the property. I think that, you know, I disagree
with it all in theory and I stand firm in that and I will vote against the
motion.
• Dunn: Just real quickly and I agree with the Mayor. Please don't fall
out of your seat. I don't think that the rescue squad needs to be
nervous in knowing that the town is moving forward in trying to work
with you for this property. If we weren't you wouldn't be here tonight.
The answer would already be no. And you are here tonight because
we are working to get to yes. We may not be at yes tonight, but I think
we are going to get there somehow, someway. I know that you all
don't want to have to work with the county, but for my point, it does
make it difficult knowing that you are a county function, not a town
function, that as we move forward, the things you want to accomplish,
I think are going to be better if you were working with the county. I
can't make you do that. That is on you. But, the one thing I don't
want to have to is we already contribute to the county funds and I just
can't have town taxpayers taking up more and more costs that should
be shared with the county. So, hopefully we can move forward with
this quickly. You can work with the town staff- I know you will and
let this process go smoothly. I hope that what you have seen from
tonight is that you do have overall the support from the town council.
• Martinez: Let's vote.
The motion to approve the gravel lot for the redevelopment of the Catoctin Skate Park
as amended with the language about funding was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Burk, Butler, Dunn, Hammier, Martinez, and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: Fox
Vote: 6-1
e. Organizational Membership with National League of Cities
On a motion by Council Member Hammier, seconded by Council Member Butler, the
following was proposed:
MOTION
I move to approve an organizational membership with the National League of Cities for
the Town Council in the amount of$3,813 for Fiscal Year 2016.
Council Comments:
• Hammier: Yes, very quickly. Just a great new opportunity to renew our
participation in a really important organization that lobbies on behalf of
municipalities around the country at the Federal level. Increasingly federal
issues are causing a great deal of issues for us as one of the—we are arguably
the size of a city. With Kim Winn, the executive director of VML now being
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
on their board, we have a great opportunity for Leesburg to be accepted on
council, leadership and committees to have a much more direct involvement
on things such as energy, environment, natural resources, things like the
unfunded mandates coming down for TMDLs, transportation for things such
as federal funding for an interstate problem on Route 15 and there are specific
councils that are directly aligned with us as the size of organization that we
are—the first tier suburbs council, which represents cities and towns outside
of central cities, such as Washington, DC and also the small cities councils
which are municipalities like us — 50,000 or just shy of 50,000. We appreciate
giving us this shot this year to get one or two of us really involved and
hopefully make a difference.
• Butler: I know that some people—we have voted down things that cost less
than $3,800 but I think this can be a huge opportunity for the town and the
fact is that if we try it once and we find that we are not getting the value out of
it, then we just don't renew. It is not a life commitment, but a potential huge
upside, so I would be enthusiastically supporting it.
• Fox: At first, I wasn't really keen on this idea but I read through this memo
that we have got and I was really excited to see that there might be some
possibility where transportation is concerned, so I kind of agree with Dave.
Let's try it out for a year, see if anything comes of it. If not, don't go any
further.
• Martinez: No comments.
• Burk: The only comment is we tried it out before and we ended up not
renewing it because it didn't prove to be particularly effective. It seems like if
we've got the representative from the VML on there, that they would be
representing our interest, so I am not in support of it at this point.
• Dunn: Katie asked me about it earlier. I did take a look and I think I'd rather
pass. I just don't see us needing to be on just another commission. It seems
like so often these commissions talk about the same thing all the time. So,
I'm going to pass on this one.
• Mayor: I mean, I completely understand Katie's proposal and it looks
attractive. But, Kelly is right. We did try this out a number of years ago. We
might assume that maybe things have changed, but we would be a very small
player in this organization. I don't think we are going to get a whole lot of
out of it. My concern is that given that these committees and the group meet
all over the country for Leesburg to play a very active role, it is going to
require air tickets to the west coast, etc. for however many council members
we have on these committees and I am not convinced it is going to be a good
return on our investment. I wish I could support it, because I think Katie's
heart is in the right place pushing for this, but I just can't having seen it in
action before.
• Hammier: I do appreciate everybody's consideration. I think we are greatly
underestimating the importance of our own leadership in that we really don't
give enough attention and never have and that's why we haven't properly
utilized the organization and how important federal lobbying is and to think
that an executive director who represents every municipality and Leesburg
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can help us individually probably isn't the best, you know, estimation of how
we are going to make that happen, but rather that she can help influence us
getting on these committees so that we as individuals that are represented to
do could in fact get involved and I don't agree that we would have to fly
anywhere in the age of webexes and teleconferences. I think it is just an
opportunity for us to do a great job, which is ultimately what we are elected
to do and federal lobbying is a key component.
The motion failed by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Fox, and Hammier
Nay: Burk, Dunn, Martinez, and Mayor Umstattd
Vote: 3-4
f. Virginia Municipal League Voting Member
On a motion by Vice Mayor Burk, seconded by Council Member Hammier, the
following was proposed with Council Member Martinez nominated as the voting member.
RESOLUTION 2015-108
Designating a Voting Member for the 2015 Virginia Municipal League(VML)
Business Session
• Council Member Martinez accepted the nomination.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Burk, Butler, Dunn, Fox, Hammier, Martinez, and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None.
Vote: 7-0
12. ORDINANCES
a. TLZM 2014-0005 Patriot Self-Storage Park.
Michael Watkins updated Council that the proffers have been revised to
include $0.10 per gross square foot of building area for Fire and Rescue. The
estimated total is close to $25,000 in revenue for transfer to Fire and Rescue services
serving the property.
On a motion by Council Member Dunn, seconded by Council Member Martinez, the
following was proposed:
ORDINANCE 2015-0-016
Approving TLZM2014-0005 Patriot Self-Storage Park to Permit Additional Building
Height in the CD-C District
It was clarified that this will include the amended proffers and three stories
fronting Fort Evans Road.
Council Comments:
• Burk: I am glad that the owner realized the importance of making sure that
our fire department was covered in this so I appreciate him reconsidering and
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putting that in part of the proffers. I know that it is not exactly what some of
the people in the area wanted, but it is what we did agree to, so I don't have
any problems supporting this.
• Hammier: I still have concerns about the massing on behalf of the neighbors
and just some questions in general on the impact on the neighborhood, so I
cannot support it.
• Fox: I have some issues about the massing too, but I also took what the
neighborhood said into consideration, what the applicant said into
consideration. I also saw this was approved by the commission and the
applicant did make an attempt to mitigate the massing. I did appreciate that.
Seeing that it would be a fiscal good thing for our community, I will support
it.
• Mayor: Mike, do you remember what the differential between how much tax
revenue that property brings in today versus how much it is estimated to bring
in if this building is approved? Do you have any sense of those numbers?
Staff answer: I don't, but the property is vacant now so we are getting real
estate taxes for unimproved property. It is in the Crescent Design District, so
those land uses are available to them in the densities that are provided with
the underlying zoning. With that said, the Crescent District does permit a
higher density in terms of land use. It is designated commercial, so we
anticipated a commercial use to bring in a significant amount of revenue. I
don't have a sense of the numbers just because there are a litany of different
uses on the use table that could occur on the property. Retail, office, self-
storage and those are all permitted uses in the district. They would have their
respective tax revenues in terms of BPOL, real estate tax, etc.
• Mayor: I am really torn over this. The neighborhood is not a big fan of this
project and they are concerned about the massing. That carries a lot of weight
with me. If they don't have any hard figures on additional revenue, then I
can't really rely on that assumption to support it. I will mull it over as we get
final comments.
• Dunn: I appreciate the Mayor's concerns about the tax revenue, but I think if
we were to look at some other self-storage facilities that we have in town and
know what those tax values are and this one is larger than I think most others
in town, I think that regardless of what the increase is, it is going to be an
increase because it is improved property versus unimproved. I think also that
the massing is mitigated by the trees on the property. It is also mitigated by
the elevation in that the property will actually be nearly the same elevation as
other properties there because it is on a lower piece of ground than some of
the other properties. I think that the architecture has been greatly improved
and I appreciate it. I think that what originally came in with the planning
commission is not what is going to be leaving here from Council through your
efforts throughout this process and I think this being another building that is
going to be at our gateways of our town I think is going to look as good if not
better than some of the other properties that are at that same gateway and the
residents are affected by those other large properties that are right on the same
street. So, for that reason, I am supporting this.
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Burk, Fox, Dunn and Martinez
Nay: Butler, Hammier and Mayor Umstattd
Vote: 4-3
13. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. None.
14. NEW BUSINESS
a. None.
15. COUNCIL MEMBER COMMENTS:
Council Member Dunn: Had no comments.
Council Member Butler: I have a disclosure. I met with Dan Knutsen on a potential
rezoning off of North King. I am concerned about the rescue squad and I want to reiterate
that if they want to extend their building across the property line, we can't lease half the lot
to be able to do that so we do have to subdivide and combine it, which is going to take six
votes per the town attorney. I am concerned because we have already had a couple of
Council members say that they don't want to give away any more land or anything like that,
so I think it might be risky. It is going to be tough to get six votes to give them that land. I
just want to reiterate that I stand by my remarks that if I were them, I'd be a smidge
nervous. The last thing I do want to talk about is I do want to address the question that was
posed to me earlier tonight about sending a letter to Le Tache with all the attachments.
Could we turn it down a little bit out there? Thanks. Yes, absolutely don't want to do that
because it is putting us in the middle of any first amendment [inaudible] that are completely
outside of our purview. We are happy it is possible for us to send opinions like that up the
chain to whatever governmental agencies, the state or federal government, but to pressure a
local business with changing how they—what they sell or how they sell it based on our
feelings of a first amendment issue is wrong and I believe could get us into trouble and it
would be no different than what if we did the same thing with gun shops, churches, or bars,
all of which are first or second amendment issues that have the same kinds of concerns by
some people. There are definitely people that would think that bars, restaurants that serve
alcohol are far more dangerous than anything that Le Tache might be presenting and it is
not our job to opine on that. We have to follow the law. I would also like to say yes, does
Le Tache—some of their stuff objectify women? I think absolutely. There is no question
about that, but it is not our place to decide whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. That
is up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court has very solidly spoken on that. So,
basically the summary of what the message that may have been lost last night is that we
don't really have the legal authority to do anything with that business. So, you can ask us
and we can all agree 100%with you but we can't do anything. I would also like to mention
that if we are going to send—if we were to send letters, which we are not, including all the
emails that we have received, we would also want to include the 79 posts that were put on
the Leesburg Today facebook page that basically were crucifying the Leesburg Town
Council for even discussing this issue. The inaccurate headline from the Leesburg Today
didn't help matters, but we were crushed and I think it would be helpful for Council to go
read some of those comments to find out that the vast majority of people, including some
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COUNCIL MEETING September 22, 2015
very conservative members of the public think that our discussion last night was much ado
about nothing. So, I will get off my soap box and hopefully I have answered the question
that they have asked and we can move on. Thank you.
Vice Mayor Burk: I need to disclose that I met with Hobie Mitchell on September
15. I wanted to congratulate ECHO. They had their yearly picnic and what a wonderful
group of volunteers and paid staff that work with our adult disabled population. It was
really a wonderful picnic. I wanted to congratulate Stilson on a wonderful Cancer Can
Rock afternoon. Did a great job and raised a lot of money for cancer research and that was
great. I want to remind everybody that the Art Festival is this weekend, Saturday and
Sunday, along with the Airshow and that on Thursday, the Town Council, Middleburg
Bank, and Palios is sponsoring a discussion on the downtown businesses and retail. This is
an opportunity to come down and participate and listen to a panel discussion from experts
on what are some things that we could do downtown to get more feet on the ground and
what are some things that we need to do. Finally, I would like to end by just saying Happy
Birthday to Marty because his birthday is coming up.
Council Member Martinez: I just wanted to say I also talked with Hobie Mitchell
and Christine Gleckner on the 14t'' about his development. I also want to say that the Town
of Leesburg has got a busy weekend. We have got a lot of stuff going on. We have
Leesburg Airshow, the annual art fair, the Nats are playing Philadelphia. We have the
NAACP, which is really [inaudible]. Then we have the Phillies on Friday night and..., but
I also [inaudible] to coach the kids baseball team in Warrenton because their coach couldn't
make it. [inaudible].
Council Member Hammler: I wanted to first of all to thank everybody involved in
putting on such a moving 9/11 ceremony. As usual, Madam Mayor did a wonderful job on
what is an occasion—I do appreciate that the town makes an effort to bring everybody
together considering how significant that event was for us. I just wanted to say thanks in
advance for all of you for coming to Town Hall on October 2 for our first official pilot for
the Civics Program. We will have 60 eighth graders from Simpson coming in. They will be
in two groups divided between the Mock Session in the Town Council and also have the
opportunity to meet Council Members. Of course, the most special [inaudible] as well as a
staff directory so they will learn about great kind of career opportunities and most
importantly how to develop their passion for contributing to the level of government that
they will probably have the most impact as leaders. I will be visiting three civics classes this
week just to help prepare them so they are ready to come into the town hall chambers and
[inaudible] and the issue and who is going to be what petitioners, are going to be ready to
even come to a vote that day and make it as meaningful as possible but also just a learning
pilot so that we can kind of debrief and figure out how to make it even better and expand it
next year, but I must say a huge thank you to Keith Markel who has been the program
manager and doing a great job keeping this all organized as well as Mr. Runfola, the
principal from Simpson and his staff as well as Abby Fisterer from Morven Park. She has
come up with all the working materials and the classroom and has just made this extremely
meaningful for the kids. Along that line, I think it is great Kelly nominated Cameron
Orndorff to be on an actual Arts commission. I think he is—he is a teenager. I have known
him since he was a little kid, so it is kind of awesome to see him stepping up and getting
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involved in the town. Finally, speaking of participation, I am so glad that Marty is going to
take an active role down at the VML annual meeting. I am looking forward to seeing him
and Kelly down there. I will be participating in the Executive Committee meeting and also
be presiding at the Women in Local Government Breakfast. So, it should be a great annual
conference and we will look forward to reporting back.
Council Member Fox: I have one disclosure. I met with Hobie Mitchell on the 18th
along with Christine Gleckner of Walsh Colucci. That is my only disclosure. Just a couple
of things. I, too, enjoyed immensely the 9/11 observance. It was very humbling to take a
look out there and see all of our first responders. I hope they know how much we
appreciate them. I did get to observe the preservation awards at the Thomas Birkby House
although they didn't know I was there. But Kelly was there. That was a really nice party, I
guess award ceremony. I had to leave a little bit early but I am just going to go ahead and
keep it short and sweet. I do appreciate one thing. This downtown discussion that is
coming up—I think it is really needed. I wanted to thank Kelly for bringing this about. I
know that there was a lot of work on her part and I really look forward to this Thursday.
16. MAYOR'S COMMENTS
I appreciate Katie's work on the Civics program, Kelly's work on the downtown
business program. These are both very good projects. I would just like to give you an
update on the motorcycle ride that you all supported. They had over 100 motorcyclists to
sign up for the ride to raise money for canines for warriors and these dogs are all rescue dogs
and they all rescue the veterans that they are paired with and it is an extraordinarily
successful suicide prevention program. Not one veteran has been lost who has been paired
with one of these dogs. So, it works really well. We are very grateful. Everybody wanted
me to make sure that we thanked you guys for your support for the ride.
17. MANAGER'S COMMENTS
Mr. Dentler had no comments.
18. ADJOURNMENT
On a motion by Council Member Martinez, seconded by Council Member Butler, the meeting
was adjourned at 10:28 p.m.
IMAYINR110
Krist- C. stattd, Mayor
Town of Leesburg
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Clerk of C
2015_tcmin0922
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