HomeMy Public PortalAbout2008_10_27
Council Work Session
October 27, 2008
Council Chambers, 25 West Market Street, 7:30 p.m. Mayor Umstattd presiding.
Council Members Present: David Butler, Thomas Dunn, II, Katie Sheldon
Hammier, Marty Martinez, Ken Reid, Kevin Wright and Mayor Kristen Umstattd
Council Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Town Manager John Wells, Town Attorney Jeanette Irby,
Deputy Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Director of Public Works Tom Mason, Director of
Finance Norm Butts, Director of Planning and Zoning Susan Berry Hill, Director of
Plan Review Bill Ackman, Deputy Director of Planning and Zoning Brian Boucher,
Senior Management Analyst Bob Berkey, and Management Specialist/Deputy Clerk of
Council Debi Parry
AGENDA ITEMS
1. Work Session Items for Discussion:
a. Stantec/ESI Presentation
Bill Ackman introduced Phil Deleon of Stantec and Vice Chairman of the
Engineers & Surveyors Institute (ESI) Board of Directors.
Phil Deleon stated he represents the ESI Board and the private sector. He
stated ESI is a public/private partnership between the Town of leesburg and
engineering consultants to improve the quality of plans and to make review
easier for the Town and the staff. He stated the services are provided on a pay
as you go method, with the majority of the cost covered by the applicant.
Further, he introduced Dr. Terry Ryan of ESI to provide an overview of ESI.
Dr. Terry Ryan stated ESI exists only in Northern Virginia and provides a peer
review process through a public/private partnership to ensure the plans are
complete before being provided to staff. He stated ESI has worked with staff to
ensure manuals are as clearly written as possible. He stated ESI has provided
over 13 hundred hours of education programs. Further, he stated leesburg
operates on a pay as you go process where the Town pays a set fee and the
developer pays a fee based on the size or quality of the plan submitted.
Mr. Deleon stated Council has heard stories from the development
community that the Town's process takes too long. He stated ESI and staff
have worked hard to develop a priority review process. He stated initial plans
are reviewed for quality and sent back to the developer for changes if they do
not meet the Town's criteria. He stated this has frequently saved an extra
submission for the developers. He stated it may cost the developer a week or
two for review and changes; however, they have not been impacted to the
extent they have claimed. Further, he stated he has enjoyed working with the
Town.
Council Member Wright stated if you are not a member then you do not have
to go through the process. He stated members of the development community
have commented that if they need to move their application faster they get an
unaffiliated person.
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Page 2
Mr. Deleon stated it is a benefit to be a member of ESI; however, with the
new priority review process, if you are not a member you can submit plans to go
through the Town process, but you do not get ESI screening to determine if your
plans are in conformance with the Town's criteria.
Council Member Wright stated the Town is averaging three to four
submissions which is similar to Prince William County, who no longer use ESI.
He questioned why the Town does not seem to be as effective as Fairfax County.
Mr. Deleon stated Fairfax County is somewhat of an anomaly as they require
their reviewers to stay strictly to the review process, they have a shorter review
time to get comments back and they also have more staff. He stated the
submissions to Prince William County decreased when they partnered with ESI;
however, their number of submissions have increased to four since they ended
the partnership. He stated loudoun County and the Town of leesburg are both
around three submissions.
Mr. Ackman stated another difference is that counties do not review water
and sewer or road networks. He stated the water and sewer items are reviewed
by the local water board and the road networks are reviewed by VDOT.
Dr. Ryan stated Fairfax County also utilizes a Designated Plan Examiner (DPE)
program. He stated State law does not allow the Town to use a DPE program,
but ESI is looking into a quasi DPE process that may help to reduce the number
of submissions further.
Council Member Wright asked if state law also precludes the Town from
utilizing an expedited review process.
Dr. Ryan stated the State law allows expedited review in population bands;
however, there has been discussion of allowing expedited review across the
State.
Council Member Wright stated Council regularly receives questions from the
development community about why the process takes so long; however, staff
has indicated that the quality of the plans they receive are poor. He asked if ESI
reviews the plans prior to staff and asked the value of the partnership with ESI
when staff is still saying they are receiving poor quality plans.
Dr. Ryan stated ESI's review focuses on completeness and pride themselves
on not releasing a plan until it is ready for technical review. He stated this does
not include regulatory review. He stated quite often when reviewing plans they
will notice blatant regulatory errors and will inform the private sector of the
errors. Further, he stated through this completeness review, ESI is able to
glean information about what is failing in terms of looking at the comments or
what the plans are having trouble communicating and put that information back
into the ESI classes.
Council Member Butler asked the cost to the Town for this partnership.
Mr. Ackman stated the cost is $15,000 per year.
Council Member Reid asked when the current contract with ESI will expire.
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Page 3
Mr. Ackman stated the contract will expire at the end of the year.
Mr. Wells stated the Town extended the contract for a six month period,
rather than renewing the contract for a multi-year period as part of the overall
analysis of the development process. He stated in a sense the Town is in an
extension mode, while we assess whether or not this is appropriate and
beneficial to the development community.
Council Member Reid stated as part of the evaluation, he would like to see an
analysis of the Town's Development Activity Report outlining which of those
applications were reviewed by ESI. He stated he would also like to see a
comparison to a comparable town or city that is experiencing a large amount of
development such as Manassas, so we are not comparing ourselves to counties.
Further, he asked if Council would support adding a request to the Legislative
Agenda to allow the Town to be eligible for expedited review.
b. Wage Drive/Dominion Power
Mayor Umstattd stated there was an article in the Loudoun Extra section of
the Washington Post indicating that Dominion Virginia Power (Dominion) has
purchased a home on Wage Drive. She stated Congressman Wolf has sent a
letter to the Governor asking him to intervene and find a solution that would be
suitable to all parties. She stated she and staff met with Dominion and
expressed dismay that despite their promise to keep the Town informed, they
did not do so until it was clear to the neighbors that this house had been sold.
She stated she also discussed with them the need to keep the grass cut on the
property. Further, she stated since that meeting the neighbors have been
emailing Governor Kaine, Congressman Wolf, Senator Herring, Senator
Holtzman Vogel and Delegate May.
Council Member Dunn stated he sent an email to Mayor Umstattd and Mr.
Wells regarding information he received from the State Board of Architectural
Review Conference discussing the use of State and local funds used to
underground utilities. He stated he also shared information with Council
Member Reid regarding view shed ordinances.
Ms. Irby stated she has researched the order Dominion entered with respect
to the transmission line and that order supersedes any zoning ordinance
requirements we may have. She stated they would be required to obtain a
permit from the Town to construct a substation. She stated she assumes they
will need a permit from the Town to demolish the house and staff is sending
them a letter to that affect. She stated the order is silent with respect to access
points for the line. She stated the pole is to be placed in the VDOT right-of-way
and the lot will be used for access. Further, she stated she is working with the
Zoning Department to send letters.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she would appreciate a closed session discussion
regarding how the Town has been represented by outside counsel on this issue.
She stated it is her understanding that there may have been serious gaps in how
the Town was represented and perhaps there may be an opportunity for
restitution that would help us move forward with legal action.
Ms. Irby stated a closed session could be scheduled at Council's convenience.
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Council Member Martinez stated he shares the feelings of the majority of
Council that Dominion is a challenge and we need to continue being David
versus Goliath. He stated hopefully we will be able to protect our Town instead
of being overrun by Dominion.
Council Member Wright asked if the State has given Dominion Power the
license to do anything they want, however they want, in Leesburg as long as it
relates to the transmission line.
Ms. Irby stated the Town has no power with respect to the transmission lines;
however, we do have some power with respect to a substation and the order is
silent on access lots. She stated we are limited in what we can do and she does
not want to hold out some type of hope that we will be able to do much;
however, Dominion, not withstanding the trust issues we have with them, does
have a public relations problem and does want to try and work with the Town.
Council Member Wright thanked Mayor Umstattd for her proactive letter to
the Governor regarding this issue. He stated letters should be sent, signed by
Council as a whole, to our State legislators indicating that this process is rapidly
getting out of control. He stated Dominion wantonly and knowingly negotiated
for the purchase of a number of properties and finally got one. He stated they
have been acting in bad faith and that information needs to get to the State
legislators and citizens in the community need to beware. Further, he stated we
do not have a lot of information or power; however, the power we have needs to
be used to the fullest extent.
Mayor Umstattd stated she wanted to make it clear to the neighborhood in
the letter she sent to the Governor that the full Council is concerned and it
would be nice to send a letter with signatures from all members of Council.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated we should be doing everything possible to talk to
the State Corporation Commission (SCC) because the Governor has already
determined who serves on the SCC and they are making the decision.
Mayor Umstattd stated we have a broken system. She stated it is a system
that is a toy for Dominion to play with and she does not think the State
regulatory system cares about Wage Drive. She stated the Governor has
appointed a former Dominion spokesperson to the SCC, which is not a good
sign. She stated she will try to tone down her original letter and send it out to
the legislators and Governor. Further, she stated Council should thank
Congressman Wolf for his involvement.
Council Member Dunn suggested that Dominion should share the cost of the
drainage solution for Wage Drive.
Mayor Umstattd stated one of the items that came up in talking to the
residents of Wage Drive was that some people thought if they were going to be
stuck with the pole perhaps Dominion would be willing to dedicate the lot to the
Town as a park. She stated she urged Dominion to find if that is the opinion of
the majority of residents and if so the Town would like an endowment for any
such park so that we have maintenance costs covered and tax payer funds are
not used. She stated she urged Dominion to meet with all of the neighbors and
they assured her that Council would be invited to all neighborhood meetings.
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Further, she stated she made it clear to them that they promised to keep
Council apprised and the fact that they did not do so in purchasing the house
made it really impossible for Council to trust them in the future.
Council Member Butler stated legally there is not a whole lot we can do for
Wage Drive, but perhaps if we are vocal enough then perhaps next time we can
push the legislature for some kind of a change so this kind of thing does not
happen to other citizens in the future.
Council Member Reid stated as one who fought to keep this project off the
W&OD Trail before election to Council, he never thought he would see Dominion
put a pole on Wage Drive. He applauded Mayor Umstattd's efforts stating her
idea for an endowment for a park is a good one. He stated we also have to
remember Dominion is going to scar Route 7 with poles in the commercial
district and the property owners there are very upset as well. He asked if this
came as a surprise and if the Town was provided with information as to where
the poles would be placed when the Modified D route was approved last year by
the SCC.
Mr. Wells stated at the time the route was approved it was approved as a
corridor without the specific locations of the poles identified. He stated we did
not know exactly where the poles would go, but we did know that a pole would
be located in this general area. He stated there were other options as to where
this pole could have been placed including the church property, but Dominion
was unwilling to pay the price for that acquisition.
Mayor Umstattd stated Dominion was not required by the SCC to specify
where it would be placing its poles. She stated they still do not know where all
the poles will go.
Council Member Reid asked if there was any opportunity when this all came
out in the summer of 2006 to try and work with the Hearing Examiner to work
out this alignment.
Mayor Umstattd stated the Town did that consistently.
Council Member Reid stated we fought for the E-7 alignment under the advice
of our former Town Attorney.
Mayor Umstattd stated she believes Senator Mark Herring met with the
Hearing Examiner and tried to persuade him not to put the lines in this area.
She stated Delegate May was sensitive to Leesburg's concerns and worked hard
on our behalf for undergrounding lines in this area.
Council Member Reid asked if the Town has information regarding the Route 7
property owners or the residents of Stratford and Evergreen Meadows.
Ms. Irby stated it is her understanding that most of the property owners have
had at least one meeting with Dominion and have not had much success.
Tom Mason stated staff convened a meeting with the East Market Street
property owners located between the Route 7/15 Bypass and the corporate
limits. He stated staff shared information and learned in that meeting where the
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Page 6
poles will be located. He stated that is one of the critical entryways into
Leesburg and we do not want to have it lined with the 120 foot tall towers. He
stated Dominion has met with the property owners individually; however, they
have been insensitive to the local conditions.
Council Member Reid stated this was not their preferred alignment; however,
the residents concerned about their view shed won out. He stated in his opinion
placing power lines in rural areas is not a problem, but the SCC wanted to put
them right through Leesburg and right through Wage Drive. He stated he will
sign the letter and will support efforts by residents and property owners to
minimize the damage.
Mr. Mason stated staff continues to work with the property owners. He stated
there is an existing wooden pole on Route 7 that is in the same location that
Dominion wants to place towers which has created a problem regarding
placement of those lines which include power, cable and communication.
Further, he stated Dominion is replacing one of the towers along the Potomac
River near the Water Treatment Plant with a different structure to carry more
lines and staff is meeting with them tomorrow regarding their desire for a
substation location, perhaps at the Water Treatment Plant site.
Mayor Umstattd asked that a letter be placed on the agenda for a vote
tomorrow night.
c. Tents as Accessory Uses - Hamburg Doner
Brian Boucher stated the issue has come up to allow a tent over the winter
months at a restaurant location downtown. He provided his interpretation of the
Zoning Ordinance indicating this use goes too far given what has traditionally
been done here. He stated Council could initiate a Zoning Ordinance
amendment and allow staff to draft an ordinance with certain controls so the
tents do not appear at every restaurant in Town.
Council Member Dunn asked the definition of a tent.
Mr. Boucher stated a tent is a temporary structure that can be bolted, but
usually uses stakes. He stated tents are typically not intended to be permanent
structures.
Council Member Dunn asked if a tent does not have walls, what would be
considered a permanent structure. He asked what materials would be
considered as typical for a tent.
Mr. Boucher stated tents typically are made of materials that are easily
collapsible. He stated what makes a structure is how permanent it is intended
to be. If a structure is permanently affixed to the ground then it requires a
building permit. He stated tents do not require a building permit because they
are temporary and are not usually made to fight the elements, especially in the
winter. He stated in the ordinance there are tents in some places, but it very
well defined and they are allowed for short periods. Further, he stated the
ordinance does allow canopies, which is a new issue that has occurred at
daycares. He stated canopies can be considered a tent too.
Council Member Dunn provided various photographs taken around Town in
Town Council Work Session of October 27. 2008
Page 7
the H-l and H-2 Districts of various structures inquiring as to whether they
would be classified as a tent. He stated it seems Hamburg Doner, with having
to seek approval for the deck and now a tent, may need a different business
model. He stated he wonders if the Town should go forward with supporting a
tent in the Historic District; however, there should be consistency in Town and
there are already tents in the Historic District and various definitions of tents.
Mr. Boucher stated the once case in which he has allowed a tent is for the
special events at the Birkby House. He stated that call was made a long time
ago and at that time it was decided that tents are typical in the special events
business. He stated tents are not typical for a lot of other businesses,
particularly restaurants. Further, he stated in the case of Hamburg Doner and
restaurants, tents do not quite work.
Council Member Dunn stated he and Council Member Butler were on the
Planning Commission during the discussion of special events and tents. He
stated we have a business that should have considered a different business
model or location, yet there are numerous examples of tents in some form or
another that we've allowed in the H-l and H-2 Districts.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she is open to collectively making this as business
friendly as possible and questioned how best to get there with Hamburg Doner.
She stated she does not agree that we are going to open the flood gates and
that so many restaurants will want a tent. She stated she would support
exploring a Zoning Ordinance amendment and getting that process started and
ensuring the process is as painless as possible. Further, she stated a number of
jurisdictions around the State lease space to restaurants to facilitate outdoor
dining, she stated it is important to look at how we can help the Economic
Development Commission (EDC) achieve one of its top goals to attract
restaurants.
Council Member Wright stated the EDC would like Council to do something to
allow this and make a Zoning Ordinance change; however, they also said in the
future the Town should review each instance on a case by case basis. He stated
if we institute a Zoning Ordinance amendment it must be equally applied to
everyone. He stated we need to narrowly define it and cannot go forward on a
case by case basis.
Mr. Boucher stated the ordinance would have to be crafted to layout certain
conditions that if met, would automatically allow the tent.
Council Member Wright stated he still has a question as to whether or not the
Fire Marshal or Health Department would even allow a tent use here.
Mr. Boucher stated if Hamburg Doner were to erect a tent, the Fire Marshal
would most likely want to inspect and comment on it.
Council Member Wright expressed concern that the Town will invest time and
effort into this process only to discover that it will not work. He stated Council
Member Dunn has provided examples of other possibilities that would require an
approval process, which may make more sense. He stated another option would
be to place heaters on the deck.
Town Council Work Session of October 27. 2008
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Council Member Butler concurred with Council Member Wright's comments.
He stated there are other solutions that can go through the normal approval
process. Further, he expressed concern that the tents would be popping up
across the Town.
Council Member Reid stated at first we are told that a case by case approval
basis would not work, but then we get information that it would. He stated we
have a restaurant that is wildly successful and has done more to revitalize the
downtown than any money we could spend on parades or floats or festivals. He
stated we should have a Zoning Ordinance that would allow anyone to erect a
tent, canopy or Chuppah on a seasonal basis. He stated we could institute a
permitting process that would require review by the Fire Marshal and health
department. Further, he stated we have several places in Town where we have
canopies or tents and we have a business here that wants to erect a tent. He
stated he would not support the Board of Architectural Review option because
that would involve a permanent structure. Further, he stated he does not believe
that all of the restaurants will want to erect a tent just because the Town
changes the rules.
Council Member Dunn stated in the discussion of the special events ordinance
he was supportive of more flexible terms for our events, allowing more events to
occur more often. He stated putting in a partial wall, cover and anchorage may
provide a solution. Further, he asked if the Zoning Ordinance discusses anchors.
Mr. Boucher stated that would fall under common sense and common usage.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she would support moving forward and finding a
solution.
Council Member Dunn stated we have guidelines in place and this will not fit
those guidelines. He stated if we are going to work outside those guidelines,
then we have to leave it to staff to work with Hamburg Doner to erect a tent
with permanent anchorage and asked if that is the result staff is leaning
towards.
Mr. Boucher stated in cases where uses are not clearly spelled out, he feels it
is better for Council to speak and provide their consensus.
Council Member Dunn stated he would support allowing businesses to choose
between a permanent structure with a soft roof or complying with the existing
special events ordinance. He stated he is concerned that we always make an
exceptions and eventually our exceptions become the norm.
Mayor Umstattd stated Hamburg Doner had a white tent up this weekend.
She stated she would support allowing them to have a tent all winter long if it is
dark green.
Council Member Martinez stated Hamburg Doner is unique and tucked away
on Harrison Street. He stated he supports working with them and doing what we
can to help them be successful. He stated he does not have a problem with
their desire to have a tent. He stated if would be different if we were working
with a major restaurant in Town; however, Hamburg Doner is a unique
establishment in a Town owned building and we should accommodate them.
Town Council Work Session of October 27. 2008
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Mayor Umstattd stated she would anticipate Lightfoot requesting a tent for
their outdoor area and she would not have a problem with that. She stated if
she were an outsider looking at this situation and could use common sense she
would question the difference between the Birkby House tent and the tent
requested by Hamburg Doner. She stated they are looking for a way to extend
their dining season without incurring a lot of cost. She stated she would be
more concerned with the appearance of the tent then whether or not they can
have one. Further, she stated she would support allowing a change that would
allow staff to feel they can make this decision legally and not be forced to make
exceptions.
Council Member Dunn stated it is easier to write guidelines regarding how we
are acting whether than act to the guidelines. Further, he stated if we feel the
current special events ordinances do not fit how we would like to administer our
need for tents, then we should change the guidelines.
Council Member Wright stated he feels there is a valid solution for them to
work with their business model without amending the ordinance. He stated staff
needs to contact Loudoun County to see if they would allow a tent in this
location before we move forward with the process. Further, he stated the best
thing is for government to get out of the way and allow them to come up with a
creative solution that will allow them to move forward within the ordinance.
Council Member Dunn stated we just created this ordinance in April and there
was nothing there prior to that. He concurred with Council Member Wright that
government should get out of the way of business and he supported more
flexible terms in the special events ordinance during the approval process.
Council Member Butler asked what the Town's response to this situation
would have been before the special event ordinance was in place.
Mr. Boucher stated the answer would have been the same. He stated the
special events ordinance addresses grand openings and special sales. He stated
it allows tents for those purposes for three days three times a year.
Council Member Butler stated the special events ordinance has nothing to do
with this issue. He stated he does not support moving forward with this.
Mr. Wells stated staff will speak with Loudoun County prior to bringing the
ordinance initiation back to Council for review. He stated when this issue first
came forward a number of suggestions were made to the owners that would
have avoided this ordinance and provided them with a setting in which to
conduct their business. Further, he stated it is their choice as to how they want
to operate.
Mayor Umstattd stated it is her understanding that the other solutions would
have cost them more money.
Town Council Work Session of October 27.2008
Page 10
d. HCA Broadlands Medical Center
Mayor Umstattd stated Vice Mayor Hammier and Council Member Martinez
had asked about including this item on the agenda, potentially for a vote
tomorrow night on a resolution of support for INOVA's position on the
Broadlands Medical Center application.
Council Member Dunn stated his view is that is a County issue, not a Town
issue. He stated all the Town can do is give an opinion; however, this is not an
issue we should be taking up as the Town Council.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated the background information provided by staff was
helpful and she appreciates the petitioners who came forward and spoke at the
last meeting. She stated she would support not bringing this issue up for a
formal discussion or vote as this is a County rezoning issue.
Council Member Wright stated he has spoken with representatives from
INOVA and would like to meet with them offline to get more factual information.
He concurred with Council Member Dunn and Vice Mayor Hammier. He stated
this is not the appropriate forum for us to opine on a zoning issue as we do not
have all of the facts and we will not have all of the facts because it is not our
jurisdiction.
Council Member Butler concurred with Council Member Dunn's comments.
Council Member Reid stated he concurs this is not something the Town needs
to get into; however, he does support a second hospital at Broadlands or Route
50. He stated he feels that INOVA can still expand at the Cornwall Campus and
he would like a report from INOVA on how they plan to address the traffic
issues.
Mayor Umstattd stated she shares some of the concerns raised by the doctors
at the last Council Meeting that the county would be better served by a hospital
on Route 50; however, it seems there will not be a vote on this item tomorrow
evening. She thanked the INOVA representatives for attending the meeting.
e. Budget Update - Community Agency Funding
Mr. Wells stated in anticipation of the upcoming budget process, staff would
like to reaffirm Council's direction on the community agency funding. He stated
staff has identified what would be included in the proposed budget specifically
following the Council's guidelines.
Council Member Wright verified the fire and rescue funding numbers were
based on last year's funding number and calculated with the consumer price
index. Further, he asked what the consumer price index is for this year.
Mr. Berkey stated the consumer price index for this year is five percent.
Council Member Butler stated he does not support these funding levels as
they are pathetically small and only account for .046 percent of the entire
budget.
Town Council Work Session of October 27. 2008
Page 11
Council Member Martinez stated Council Member Reid and he are glad to hear
that as they do not support the guidelines either.
Council Member Reid asked the current balance in the Uran Fund.
Mr. Berkey during the budget process it was estimated there was $392,000
left in the Uran Fund.
Council Member Reid stated not much is being used for the coming year.
Mr. Berkey stated the estimated $392,000 balance is being revised to
$560,000 because the Police Department did not spend as much as they thought
on the CAD/RMS system.
Council Member Reid stated he appreciates Council Member Martinez noting
that they have fought a losing battle over the last two years to help social
service agencies since Mr. Uran gave his money for that purpose and he is glad
to see Council Member Butler stepping in. He stated what unnerves him is when
people come to the Council pleading for money and are told that these are the
guidelines. He stated he was particularly disturbed with the situation with
Bluemont Concert Series last year where the Town ended up giving Bluemont
more money. He stated staff needs to tell these agencies that this is how it is
going to be. He stated does not like the situation with the social services;
however, he will support it as long as it provides an exit strategy for our
Loudoun Convention and Visitors Association (LCVA) funding. Further, he asked
if the funding for the Small Business Development Center (SBDC) comes from
Transient Occupancy Tax (TOT) funds.
Mr. Berkey stated the funding comes out of the General fund, but as a
guideline it is a percentage of the TOT funds.
Council Member Reid stated he attended a SBDC seminar the other day and
we have no idea what they are doing for the Town of Leesburg businesses
specifica Ily.
Council Member Wright verified the Uran Funding was given to the Town for
various things, not just for community agencies.
Mr. Berkey stated in 2008 $150,000 was used originally for the Police
Department's CAD/RMS system and in 2009 we will use $390,000 for the
CAD/RMS system also. He stated $100,000 was used for the Loudoun Museum
upgrades.
Council Member Wright stated with the trend of what the Town is using it for
in other areas, including police positions, we may have a fair amount of needs to
maintain the levels of service Mr. Uran thought were important when he donated
the money to the Town.
Mr. Berkey stated we have options to use the money for other opportunities
and may do that.
Council Member Wright stated the Council developed this plan to make the
process more predictable and to get us out of the business that we should not
be in. He stated this message was relayed clearly to the Loudoun County Board
Town Council Work Session of October 27. 2008
Page 12
of Services that we would not be continuing to fund social services as that is not
something we should be doing at our level of government. He stated the
barometer the County has to use is how much money they will save by
supporting the community agencies versus doing it themselves. He stated as a
Council we do not need to donate taxpayer money to charity for social services;
however, as a citizen if I have the means I have a responsibility as an individual
to contribute to these organizations. He stated the per capita rate is laughable;
however, we have set this false expectation that we will fund social services
when it is not our job as a Town to fund social services. Further, he issued a
challenge to Council and everyone who has means to pick a charity and make a
donation, but do not do it on behalf of other individuals.
Council Member Reid stated Mr. Uran donated this money, it is not tax
dollars, for this purpose. He stated he is fine with an exit strategy; however,
last year there were certain Council Members who increased the funding for
Bluemont Concert Series. He stated the Uran Funds have been used for other
items; however, he hopes to see discipline from Council with regards to business
and tourism agencies because this year they are scheduled to receive no funding
and they will be begging for more money.
Mayor Umstattd stated Council Member Butler is very passionate about his
position which is admirable. She stated because one of our primary methods of
funding is real estate taxes, when we raise taxes to support the truly indigent
we drive those barely hanging on into the ranks of the truly indigent. She
stated it is very frustrating to be in a system of government where your primary
source of funding is real estate or personal property tax versus income tax
because no matter where you set the tax rate it hurts the working poor more
than the wealthy. She stated this Council has never had the votes to raise the
tax rate to support the truly indigent. Further, she stated from time to time the
Town has received complaints from taxpayers who are offended that we think
we know better than them to which charities their money should go.
Council Member Dunn stated it seems in 2007 there were funds given above
what was expected and asked for information regarding the amount the
organizations should have received based on the guidelines.
f. VDOT /Battlefield/Rt. 7 Diamond Interchange
Mr. Wells stated staff worked with representatives of VDOT to discuss the
process to implement Council's direction for a diamond interchange at Route 7
and Battlefield Parkway so staff can work forward with the different property
owners to bring their applications forward. He stated the response from VDOT
was that we would need to fund and conduct an interchange study to
demonstrate the diamond interchange can work from their perspective. He
stated Mr. Mason met today with representatives from VDOT regarding what
scope of work would need to be followed. Further, he stated there is a second
option in lieu of the administrative process, which may not conclude in our
lifetime, and asked Mr. Mason to address this option.
Mr. Mason stated at the conclusion of this morning's meeting we are back to
reworking the numbers that have been reworked several times. He stated if we
use the process of Landmark who just went through a similar process for their
quadrant it took more than a year and the cost of doing a full blown study as
Town Council Work Session of October 27. 2008
Paqe 13
required by the Federal Government would be $400,000. He stated Council may
want to consider other options at this time.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she would not want to spend $400,000 on an
administrative solution and that this be added to the legislative agenda. She
suggested beginning a letter writing campaign similar to what is being done with
another important issue. Further, she stated it is unconscionable that we would
spend this level of money and we need to go directly to the Governor.
Council Member Wright concurred with Vice Mayor Hammier. He stated staff
has been trying to work in good faith with VDOT and VDOT has not been
working in good faith. He stated the only option is to go to the Governor and
Secretary of Transportation. He stated the other issue is that we have
applications with potential economic development impacts that we cannot review
until this issue is resolved.
Mayor Umstattd concurred with Vice Mayor Hammier's comments.
Council Member Reid asked if there is any study indicating that one of these
quadrants is needed for a partial cloverleaf.
Mr. Mason stated the Landmark study was based on their quadrant. He
stated VDOT has indicated that the quadrants in the north east and south west
may need a loop because they will carry higher traffic volumes.
Council Member Reid stated he is surprised the quadrant near the outlet mall
does not need the loop rather than the quadrant on the opposite side. Further,
he asked that this be added to the legislative agenda.
Council Member Dunn stated he agrees with what has been said. Further, he
stated the Governor's new directive to cut State spending allows us to fall into
equal line by reducing our money on studies for interchanges and let us who will
use the interchange choose what we would like to have.
Mr. Mason stated if we send a letter to the Secretary of Transportation he will
ask his staff about this and his staff will tell him that as Route 7 is part of the
Federal Highway System, and the limitations imposed on Virginia by the Federal
Highway Administration triggers this process so even if they wanted to they
could not get approval to construct the true diamond if they wanted to. Further,
he stated we are trying to work this out with VDOT, but they have the process
set up and they want us to follow it.
Council Member Dunn stated a gentleman spoke to the Planning Commission
last year indicating his businesses will be dramatically impacted by the cloverleaf
interchange.
Mr. Wells stated a motion can be placed on Council's next agenda to add this
to the Legislative Agenda and staff will draft letters to our State and Federal
representatives.
Council Member Reid asked if it is possible that right of way can be reserved
for a loop in the outlet mall quadrant.
Town Council Work Session of October 27. 2008
Page 14
Mr. Mason stated the preliminary information VDOT has indicates that a loop
will probably not be required in the northwest quadrant near the outlet mall.
g. Strategic Plan Update
Mr. Wells stated it may not be appropriate to have a discussion of this tonight
as the information came out late. He stated staff has provided notes from the
September 3rd planning session and a draft summary map. He asked that
Council review this information and discuss it at their next work session. He
stated there was some discussion regarding a revised meeting format of three
times per month and stated staff provided a preliminary schedule of the
November meetings to show what this might look like. He stated the idea
behind this would be a work session, a legislative meeting and a public hearing
night.
Council Member Wright expressed his concern with the meeting format is the
need of distance between the work session and the meeting to allow staff more
time to prepare materials for the meeting.
Mr. Wells stated if we try this in November, he would not advise changing
meeting dates; however, moving forward he would request that Council put a
day between the work session and regular session to allow staff to give Council
a better response back.
Council Member Butler stated this sounds like two different things. He stated
one would be to put a day between the meeting dates and the other would be to
condense four meetings into three. Further, he stated based on the way the
meetings work we do not have a lot of set up costs and he is not sure how this
would be more efficient. He stated we either stop doing some stuff or we have
three longer meetings.
Council Member Reid stated he would hope the petitioners and awards could
be at one of the meetings.
h. H-2 Guidelines
Susan Berry Hill stated staff was asked to provide options for Council to
consider on how to approach the review of the H-2 District Guidelines. She
stated the options range from eliminating the guidelines, shrinking the width of
the boundaries, simplifying the guidelines, expanding the list of exemptions or
allowing administrative review of certain applications such as signs. She stated
this simply provides a starting point and staff will move forward with the option
or combination of options Council desires. She also provided suggestions for
processing a review of the guidelines and suggesting beginning by soliciting
input from stakeholders.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she would support sending the topic to the
Planning Commission to let them review and provide a recommendation.
Council Member Martinez concurred. He stated the other option is to do
nothing.
Ted Kalreiss, Planning Commission Chair, stated he has spoken with members
of the Planning Commission and Board of Architectural Review; however, his
comments do not represent all members of both bodies. He stated over the
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Page 15
past year we have discussed perceived concerns about the H-2 District including
that it adds additional regulation, we receive unanticipated results from the H-2
District such as the Suzuki dealership or Commerce Bank, conflicts with the
Zoning Ordinance, added cost to projects and the guidelines may be irrelevant
because of the form based code. He suggested that the corridor not be
eliminated or shrunk for the sake of shrinking it. He asked that Council establish
a steering committee stating there is value in simplifying the guidelines and
allowing for administrative review in some cases.
Teresa Minchew, Board of Architectural Review Chair, thanked Council for the
opportunity to present this information to Council.
Council Member Martinez stated Mr. Kalreiss discussed breaking the H-2
Corridor into segments and asked if he would also include widths. He stated Mr.
Kalreiss also addressed vested development and asked if he would consider
potential redevelopment.
Mr. Kalreiss stated each corridor and its width should be considered.
Council Member Dunn stated he asked staff to check on the possibility of
allowing the Planning Commission to review the H-2 Corridor and was told that
would not be a problem. He stated the nature of the BAR is to preserve a
historic area, which is very detailed; however the H-2 guidelines are generic in
nature. He stated in walking around the downtown he noted areas where the
downtown is crumbling and needs attention, which is the scope of the BAR. He
stated he would like to see the BAR get back to directing their attention to
preserving the downtown. Further, he suggested allowing the Planning
Commission to take over review of the H-2 while this process is underway. He
stated the easy way out is to do nothing; however, that is not an option.
Ms. Minchew stated many jurisdictions approach their review of H-2 corridors
in different ways. She cautioned Council against rushing to change without
identifying and solving the problem. She stated there can be conflicts with
allowing Planning Commission to review your land use and architecture at the
same time and this would have to be carefully structured.
Mayor Umstattd stated that might go with Vice Mayor Hammier's suggestion
that we allow the Planning Commission to come forth with a recommendation for
Council.
Council Member Dunn asked how long it would take to transfer the approval
process for the H-2 District to the Planning Commission.
Ms. Berry Hill it would require an amendment to the Zoning Ordinance, which
would take two months.
Council Member Dunn stated this is not something we are rushing into. He
stated there does not need to be a gap in the review process we now have.
Vice Mayor Hammier expressed her support for allowing the Planning
Commission to establish a review committee to discuss the H-2 and provide a
recommendation to Council. She stated at that point we would take time at a
work session to review the results and make a decision.
Town Council Work Session of October 27. 2008
Paqe 16
Council Member Wright thanked Mr. Kalreiss and Ms. Minchew for attending
tonight's meeting. He stated he was out sick during the last Planning
Commission meeting, but made a point of calling in sick and watching the
meeting on television. He stated he saw Mr. Kalreiss' discussion and felt that he
latched on to something. He stated he was reminded of what Council did in
initiating a number of BAR changes feeling that was the right thing only to have
the business community ask that the changes not move forward. He stated it is
appropriate to empower the Planning Commission and BAR to form a steering
committee, involve the business community, go through and answer each of the
questions and bring back the results.
Council Member Butler asked what percentage of cases that come forward to
the BAR are in the H-2 District versus the H-l District.
Ms. Minchew stated the number of H-2 applications right now is very small.
Council Member Reid stated in 2007 there were 59 cases in the Old and
Historic District and 44 in the H-2 District.
Ms. Minchew stated many of those were sign applications and with the proper
modifications to the guidelines, the BAR would be supportive of moving to
administrative review. She stated she is sure that some structures in the Old
and Historic District are crumbling; however, she does not feel that the BAR's
attention to the H-2 is preventing them from attending to the H-1. She stated
many of the issues in the H-l bother her as well; however, they are directly
related to enforcement issues.
Council Member Butler stated he would like those types of facts on the table
because it is not entirely clear to him what problems we are trying to solve and
it is also not clear how we will move forward until we see the new guidelines in
the next two months.
Council Member Reid stated review of the materials businesses have to
submit for BAR approval takes more time for staff than if the businesses met
with staff and had administrative approval. He provided several examples of
sign applications where the signs are not visible from the street. He stated he
does not support a separate committee reviewing this. He suggested giving
direction to the Planning Commission, in concert with the BAR to consider
cutting the H-2 District boundaries in half, allow administrative approval for all
signs, no stipulate no proffered H-l or H-2 BAR review and develop
streetscapes. He stated he does not support the idea of a second BAR. He
stated he would hope Council would give direction to the Planning Commission
to do this and allow the BAR to focus on the H-l and minimize the number of
applicants who have to come before the BAR whose properties are not visible
from the corridors.
Council Member Dunn stated we have a lot of things in play here and at some
point we need to start. He stated the goal is to preserve the Historic District.
He stated if it is not being preserved then perhaps the H-l and H-2 applications
are taking time away from the BAR and their ability to enforce. He stated not
just enforcing, but providing assistance to property owners through a business
improvement district that we need to implement to offer fac;ade grants and tax
Town Council Work Session of October 27. 2008
Page 17
credits, Form Based Code on the plate. Further, he stated if we wait for the H-l
guidelines and the Form Based Code we will still find ourselves doing nothing or
very little.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated it is becoming counterproductive in that we are
preaching on a whole bunch of soapbox issues when we are trying to move
forward with action to delegate authority to a committee to come back with a
recommendation so we can move forward on it.
Council Member Dunn stated we had a presentation today that addressed a
myriad of issues in the Town and asked that we send this forward to the
Planning Commission to consider the Planning Commission review of the H-2
versus the BAR. He stated we have a lot of work ahead of us, but we have to
start there.
Mr. Kalreiss stated the Planning Commission does have a number of heavy
items on their agenda for the next couple of months. He asked that this process
be started at the first of the year.
Council Member Martinez stated he would like to see this move forward with a
recommendation that Planning Commission and the BAR form a steering
committee to review this issue with stakeholders.
Ms. Minchew asked that the BAR and Planning Commission be allowed to
complete review of the H-l guidelines first. He encouraged Council not to rush
forward and cut the district in half. She stated a number of the more vibrant
communities are expanding their corridor districts, creating streetscape designs
and making it easier for businesses to know what to do.
Mayor Umstattd thanked Ms. Minchew and Mr. Kalreiss for their efforts.
i. Flag Design
Council Member Dunn asked that this item be removed from the agenda.
Council Member Butler asked if Council is going to act on the flag at some
point as it is an open item.
Mayor Umstattd stated any Council Member could bring it up at any point in
the future.
j. Town Code Update
Ms. Irby stated she has not received comments from Council on the Town
Code update and asked that any changes be given to her in the next week or
two. She stated there will be another opportunity to review.
Adjournment
On a motion by Council Member Martinez, seconded by Council Member
Wright, the meeting was adjourned at 10: 19 p.m.
2008_tcwsmin 1027