HomeMy Public PortalAbout2008_11_10Council Work Session
November 10, 2008
Council Chambers, 25 West Market Street, 7:30 p.m. Mayor Umstattd presiding.
Council Members Present: David Butler, Thomas Dunn, II, Katie Sheldon
Hammler, Marty Martinez, Ken Reid, Kevin Wright and Mayor Kristen Umstattd
Council Members Absent: Council Member Dunn left the meeting at 9:30 p.m.
Staff Present: Town Manager John Wells, Town Attorney Jeanette Irby,
Deputy Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Assistant to the Town Manager Kathleen Leidich,
Director of Public Works Tom Mason, Director of Finance Norm Butts, Director of Plan
Review Bill Ackman, Director of Parks and Recreation Rich Williams, Economic
Development Manager Marantha Edwards, Clerk of Council Lee Ann Green, and
Management Specialist/Deputy Clerk of Council Debi Parry
AGENDA ITEMS
1. Work Session Items for Discussion:
a. Legislative Packet Revisions
Debi Parry stated one revision has been made to the legislative package
requesting the authority for expedited plan review. She stated this will be on
the agenda for a vote Wednesday night; however, staff would like to have
Council's general endorsement of the amendment tonight as the packet will be
presented to the legislators during the briefing before the meeting Wednesday
night.
Council Member Dunn asked that the Senate sister bill to HB 83 also be
included in the packet.
Vice Mayor Hammler stated a topic was raised at the Loudoun County
Economic Development Commission last Friday regarding the possibility that the
County may add an item to their legislative packet regarding the State
procurement regulations and allowing local businesses to have the greater
benefit of working with the local governments.
Mr. Wells stated Ms. Parry contacted the County's Purchasing Office and that
item has not made its way into the County's legislative package as of yet. He
stated staff will continue to follow up with the County on this issue.
Vice Mayor Hammler thanked Ms. Parry for her help and legislative support
during the VML Conference.
Council Member Reid asked when Council would be meeting with Delegate
May
Ms. Parry stated the meeting with Delegate May is scheduled for Friday,
November 14th at his office in Sterling.
b. PPEA Update/Loudoun Street
Mr. Wells stated the Town received an unsolicited proposal for the
development of properties on Loudoun Street and per Council's direction an ad
was placed soliciting additional proposals; however, no competing proposals
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were received. He stated staff has conducted an analysis of the proposal and
Norm Butts is here to answer questions. He stated Council has the opportunity
to suspend the process and move forward to the detailed phase with a public
hearing or direct staff to work with the applicant to refine the proposal and move
forward with that proposal as part of a public hearing. Further, he stated staff
will await Council's direction.
Council Member Dunn stated he would like to see more detail on Mr. Burnett's
proposal as it is a little general. He stated the residents who provided the park
proposal presented great designs; however, their proposal also needs more
detail. He suggested a compromise proposal that would use the western parcel
and the garage entrance for the building and leave the eastern parcel for a park.
He stated staff brought up issues related to the Fire Marshal; however, he has
seen larger garages with one ingress/egress. Further, he stated we do not need
both entrances to the garage and this would propose a good compromise.
Vice Mayor Hammier thanked Mr. Burnett and the citizens proposing the park
for their efforts. She stated the Parks and Recreation Commission have not
made a recommendation because they have never been briefed on the
proposals, nor has she seen a recommendation from the Economic Development
Commission.
Mr. Wells stated the Economic Development Commission has proposed
pursuing the PPEA with a building on the property.
Council Member Martinez stated initially he was very supportive of the
building; however, he endorses the idea of the park as the Town cannot have
enough green space. He stated he appreciates Mr. Burnett's efforts; however,
there are other areas that could be considered for the proposed building such as
Liberty Street.
Council Member Wright stated if Council moves to the more detailed phase of
the development it will require a significant financial investment from Mr.
Burnett. He asked that Council be realistic and honest with Mr. Burnett before
he expends more money on this project. He stated in reading the summary it
seems the manner of financing depends on primarily government tenants to pay
the rent. Further, he stated it seems staff analysis shows the project will fall
short on paying the debt service based on the current proposal.
Norm Butts stated it is difficult to tell from the proposal. He stated some
assumptions were made that a bond could be floated at four percent, which is
unrealistic in the present time. Further, he stated there were other questions
regarding the type of bond and vacancy contingencies; however, some of the
questions may be answered once the proposal is refined.
Council Member Wright asked who will guarantee the financing.
Mr. Butts stated the proposal mentioned a payment of interest for 20 years
with a payment of the principal at the end.
Council Member Wright stated some of the targeted tenants do not have any
money and asked if the financing would be dramatically affected if the proposal
moves to a commercial/retail use.
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Mr. Butts stated they would be precluded from using a general obligation tax
exempt financing for private use above 10 percent.
Council Member Butler asked if this application envisioned more private
tenants would the rent be higher.
Mr. Butts stated staff did not evaluate rent or construction costs.
Council Member Butler stated he likes the idea of a visitors center and public
restrooms; however, he is not sure how the public park on the roof would work.
He asked if there is any intention to decide if a vote should take place at the
next Council meeting Wednesday night.
Mayor Umstattd stated theoretically Council could vote on Wednesday night.
Mr. Wells stated the basic question on the PPEA is whether to ask the
applicant to move forward to the next phase. He stated prior to that Council has
the option of asking that aspects application be negotiated and reformed. He
stated the other option would be to say this is not an application that Council
wishes to move forward with.
Council Member Reid stated he would like to see more information on the
feasibility of Council Member Dunn's proposal to remove the garage
ingress/egress on Loudoun Street and have a building and a park and see if Mr.
Burnett would be amenable. Further, he suggested the possibility of keeping
one exit lane open on the Loudoun Street side of the parking garage.
Council Member Wright stated the Loudoun Street ingress/egress is used for
access to the parking garage during special events when Market Street is closed.
He stated he would not support closing the driveways on Loudoun Street and he
believes that applicant and downtown businesses would not support it either as
the advantage to the two entrances is the ability to get right in and right out.
Mayor Umstattd stated she would not be in favor of asking Mr. Burnett to
spend more money as she is in support of the park option which will enhance
the downtown and encourage more visitors. She stated the preliminary drawings
of the park are beautiful and the citizens have stated they will raise the money
and construct the park while the Town will only have to cover the maintenance
costs. She stated years ago a group of artists came forward with an idea for a
sculpture garden on this property, but it never came to fruition. Further, she
stated it is her hope that Council will support the park option and keep both
sides of the parking garage open and accessible.
c. Park Option/Loudoun Street
Council Member Wright stated looking at the park option it is important to
involve the Parks and Recreation Department to determine how this use can
activate the street. He stated if Council decides to move forward with the park
option there needs to be a time horizon to help the community pull together and
not leave this out there forever. Further, he stated if Council proceeds with the
park option there should be language in the agreement to leave open the
possibility of another use in the future based on changes in the market.
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Council Member Butler asked how long it will take for staff to develop a
memorandum of understanding (MOU) for the park.
Jeanette Irby stated it would not take very long. She stated she met with the
citizens earlier this week and we have had similar agreements in the past. She
stated there are other issues to consider with regards to the park in addition to
the MOU including funding, timeline for raising the funds, when construction is
to begin and when it is to be completed, insurance, final design approval and
restrictions as to how long the property is to remain a park.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated it has been designated that the Parks and
Recreation Department would be responsible for maintenance of the park and
they wish to be involved in choosing what will be planted there as some
landscaping can be very expensive to maintain. She stated another
important consideration is the George Mason University initiative and what
Council is trying to accomplish in the downtown. Further, she stated Jerry
Coughter of George Mason University had mentioned their desire to partner with
the Naturalist Center and suggested that this may be an opportunity to work
closely with the Naturalist Center to bring them downtown with the park option.
Ms. Irby stated Council needs to decide what they wish to do with the PPEA
proposal before having substantive discussions of the park.
Mayor Umstattd stated the Council can request further detail on the PPEA,
begin negotiations of the PPEA or reject the proposal all together. She asked if
there are time limit restrictions on taking action on the PPEA
Ms. Irby stated the Town is not under any time limit restrictions with the
PPEA. She stated a renegotiated or final proposal would have to be advertised.
Mayor Umstattd asked when the public hearing could take place if Council
decides to move forward with the PPEA option.
Ms. Irby stated if Council accepts the proposal as submitted it could take
place in 30 days.
Mayor Umstattd verified the public hearing is not required if Council rejects
the proposal.
Council Member Reid stated Council should negotiate with Mr. Burnett to
come up with a good proposal that may accommodate a pocket park as well and
he would like to bring that resolution forward Wednesday night. He stated he
was not suggesting removing all of the entrances on Loudoun Street, rather he
was suggesting that one entrance remain that could be reversed if needed.
Further, he stated Mr. Burnett's current proposal would remove one of the lanes
so there would be one entrance and one exit.
Council Member Dunn stated it is discouraging that we would dismiss
compromise outright based on opinion or false information and not consider
other entrances or exits somewhere else within the large structure. He stated
there is an alleyway that could be used for an entrance or exit. He stated his
recommendation is to have the whole entranceway used for the building because
to have a drive through lane is not necessary based on the size. He stated it is
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unfortunate that the idea of a park was not brought forward until someone
wanted to develop the property. Further, he stated Council Member Wright
brought up a good point that Council needs to decide what they want to do and
it may not be worth negotiating with Mr. Burnett if the majority of Council has
decided that a park is the best use for the property.
It was the consensus of Council to have three resolutions for Wednesday
night regarding negotiation of the PPEA proposal, acceptance of the PPEA
proposal or rejection of the PPEA proposal.
Peter Burnett, PPEA applicant, reminded Council that a building on this
property was their idea. He stated the Town approached him and asked that he
bring this proposal forward, which required him to expend a substantial amount
of money. He stated it is not fair to conduct financial analysis of bond rates and
type at this time as that is premature and not something he anticipated. He
stated he had been looking forward to having the opportunity to present this
proposal to the Council and discuss it with them; however, he was never given
the opportunity. He stated the cost and financing of the project was meant to be
close as he had not intended to have this be a profit oriented project. He
suggested allowing he and the citizens requesting the park to meet with
designers and see if there could be a win-win option.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she was expecting a briefing and discussion of
Mr. Burnett's proposal that never came, which is why she is struggling with this
process right now. She stated there is still the issue of George Mason University
and the Economic Development Commission is not in attendance to advocate
their position on this issue. She stated she would welcome bringing this issue
back so Council can properly weigh this and make an objective decision.
Mayor Umstattd stated if Council Member Reid brings forward a motion any
Council Member would have the right to make a motion to table until a future
date.
Judy Kozacik, Loudoun Street Park Committee, stated the committee is
committed to putting in a park and have spoken with a designer regarding the
possibility of reducing the cost of the park given the current economy. She
stated the committee has not moved forward with soliciting donations because
there is not a MOU in place with the Town. She noted Council has received a
number of emails from the citizens of the Town supporting the park; however,
as Mr. Burnett stated the citizens voted you in to office to make these decisions.
Mayor Umstattd stated she would like an item added to the agenda for
Wednesday night directing staff to move forward with a Memorandum of
Understanding for a park on this property.
Council Member Martinez asked that Mr. Burnett be given the opportunity to
present his proposal to Council.
Council Member Wright asked if there is something in the proposal that does
not allow Mr. Burnett to present to Council, or is it something that we just never
scheduled. He stated before we make a decision we need to let the applicant
speak.
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Ms. Irby stated when this process first started Council was operating under
the assumption and belief that they agreed with the concept so the final decision
has been delayed. She stated the first thing Council needs to do is decide if
they agree with Mr. Burnett's concept and if so then he can start spending his
time, effort and money to design and give you what you are looking for.
Mayor Umstattd stated normally applicants will meet with Council Members
individually to present their proposal. She asked if a separate work session
would be recommended for this as there is nothing in our normal typical process
to give Mr. Burnett what he would like.
Council Member Wright stated the citizens were allowed to give a 30 minute
presentation at a Council Work Session regarding their park proposal; however,
Mr. Burnett was never given the opportunity to speak at a work session.
Mayor Umstattd stated the reason a presentation has not been scheduled
before is that he has not asked before tonight. She stated it is fine for him to
have 30 minutes at the next work session if that works for him.
Ms. Irby stated this is the time for Mr. Burnett to present his concept and a
special meeting is not needed.
Mr. Burnett stated it is a good thing that the discussion is ,between a building
and a park because the last thing anyone wants is a continuation of the status
quo. He stated he would hope that Council would be sufficiently open minded to
see the different things we can come up with together for the economic, cultural
and other benefits to the Town.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she would support a briefing at the next work
session.
Council Member Reid stated he supports the briefing and withdrew his request
for a resolution at the Wednesday night Council Meeting.
Mayor Umstattd stated she would like to be open and up front with Mr.
Burnett by stating she is supporting the park option.
Council Member Reid stated staff should analyze the park proposal and the
prospects for raising the funds.
Council Member Martinez asked if Mr. Burnett has met with the Loudoun
Street Park Committee to discuss a compromise.
Mr. Burnett stated he would be delighted to meet with them; however, he
was told that the committee does not want a building on that site at all.
David Miles, Planning Commissioner, stated at the beginning of this discussion
he heard it was an unsolicited proposal; however, Mr. Burnett has stated he was
solicited.
Mr. Wells stated technically when the Council solicits a proposal an
advertisement is placed in the newspaper for a request for proposal and
proposals are submitted. He stated after a number of discussions were held with
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the citizens group there was a number of members of a previous Council who
were interested in a building on the site. He stated the suggestion was made by
one of the Council Members was that an unsolicited proposal could be made
under the PPEA. Further, he stated this was an unsolicited proposal; however,
at the time there were Council Members who were interested in seeing what a
concept would be so that expression was made to Mr. Burnett.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she does recall discussion of a goal to extend first
floor retail to create a more vibrant area to Wirt Street and beyond. She stated
it would be very helpful to provide a brief history of this issue for the next
discussion.
Mayor Umstattd stated Mr. Burnett will be given 30 minutes at the next work
session to present his proposal to Council. She stated any interested citizens
are welcome to address Council as a petitioner at any regular meeting, the next
of which is Wednesday night at 7:30 p.m.
Council Member Dunn asked if Mayor Umstattd will withdraw her resolution
for Wednesday night.
Mayor Umstattd stated she does not believe that her resolution will pass, but
she will think about it.
d. Free Holiday Parking
Mr. Wells stated this would be the continuation of a program that began
several years ago providing free holiday parking on street and in the Town's
parking garage from Thanksgiving through New Years. He stated leased parking
spaces in the parking garage would be prorated. He stated staff has been
working to encourage business owners and employees parking on the street to
ensure appropriate turnover is occurring. He stated Council has received a
number of emails on both sides of the issue and staff would like to determine if
Council would like to continue the program or modify it. Further, he stated a
suggestion had been made that free parking on the street could be limited to
two hours with tire chalking.
Mayor Umstattd stated it may be impossible to gage; however, Council has
not been able to determine the cost of the program.
Mr. Wells stated you can not quantify what new business is brought in as a
result of the program; however, staff can provide information on the Town's
revenue loss. He stated staff has received positive feedback from the business
community.
Council Member Dunn given that the Town has lost revenue with this
program, there is no measurable gain by the businesses, it has come to the
point of why do we continue this program when there is no measurable gain. He
encouraged staff to place bags on the meters and enforce a two hour limit.
Council Member Martinez stated this is a positive program and overall people
view the program as a gesture of good will. He stated he does not wish for
Council to have this debate every year and stated if we are going to continue the
program then we should provide the Town Manager with the authority to
manage it every year.
Town Council Work Session of November 10, 2008 Page 8
Council Member Wright asked for an estimate of the lost revenue.
Council Member Reid stated the lost revenue is estimated at $29,000.
Norm Butts stated there is lost revenue from the parking garage, from not
issuing parking tickets and from the prorated leased parking.
Council Member Wright stated we keep talking about doing something with
parking downtown and suggested using this opportunity as a launching point of
our parking program. He stated he and Vice Mayor Hammier have had
discussions in the past regarding the idea that if free parking is such a benefit
then why is it not always free. He stated the two hour parking rotation is
important; however, we can look at simplifying our parking program long-term
by keeping a flat two hour time limit and eliminating all others as the range of
time limits confuses people. He stated the metered spaces further from the
downtown with four hour limits can be left alone and maintaining two hours free
parking in the garage would allow us to continue renting parking spaces. He
stated perhaps the rental could be an undesignated space rental as we currently
have a number of reserved parking spaces that are never full. Further, he
stated the other thing we need to focus on is simplifying our signage and
marketing and continue working with the County and the Courts regarding the
other parking that is available downtown.
Council Member Butler asked if it is easy to change the meter so that no
money needs to be inserted.
Mr. Butts stated he is not aware of a way to make that change. He stated
you can purchase different configurations for meters; however, our meters
require that you twist the handle and receive a certain amount of time based on
the money inserted.
Council Member Butler stated some communities have kept the meters, but
made them free. He stated citizens can twist the meter to get their two hours of
parking and it is not necessary to chalk the tires. He stated if it easy to
reconfigure the meters that may be a possibility as it is something other
localities have successfully implemented.
Council Member Reid stated he supports the two hour free parking and has
always objected to the open free parking. He stated he looked back at the staff
memo from last year which provided information regarding the number of
people who parked in metered spaces for three or four days. He stated he
spoke with a business downtown that relies on metered parking and churn who
expressed concern that people are feeding the meters. He stated free parking
would hurt his business. Further, he asked if a program could be implemented
whereby shop owners could give placards to visitors to display in their car
window to give them an extra hour or two of free parking if they make a
purchase.
Mr. Wells stated it would be somewhat of a validation program in the garage;
however, it would be more difficult for on street parking.
Town Council Work Session of November 10, 2008 Page 9
Council Member Reid stated it would be displayed in the vehicle so in the
garage it could be handed to the attendant and on the street it would be in the
window to signify additional time to the individuals chalking tires. He stated if
that is too complicated then he would support two hours free parking.
Mayor Umstattd stated free parking at the meters on the street tends to do
the opposite of what we hope to do by encouraging people to come down and
shop. She stated the shop owners and employees tend to take up the spaces
and Council Member Reid is correct in pointing out the impacts of that. She
stated on the other hand it is a delight to go into the garage and not have to
deal with the gates. Further, she stated she would support free parking in the
garage while continuing to charge for parking at the meters to increase churn on
the street.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated during the upcoming budget cycle it will be
difficult to find funding for the non-profit organizations and suggested that
Council consider continuing to charge for parking at the meters and place signs
up thanking people for shopping downtown and informing them that the revenue
will be donated to charity. She stated the goal is to make them feel good about
shopping in Leesburg and may provide further encouragement to ensure they
are only parking in spaces for two hours.
Council Member Martinez stated he would support that idea; however, he
would want to know if the Town would be permitted to donate that revenue.
Council Member Dunn stated if this is a successful program then why does the
Town not do it year round. He stated he has seen studies that show when
parking is at a premium it is helpful for business, but when it is seen as
something casual it does not benefit businesses.
Council Member Reid stated allowing the parking garage to be free while
continuing to charge for the meters may just encourage the business owners
and employees to park in the garage and thereby crowd out the individuals who
have paid for their parking spaces.
Mayor Umstattd stated those individuals have permitted parking spots.
Council Member Reid stated there are also those who simply park where they
can.
Mr. Wells stated there are two different types of permitted spots. He stated
there are specific designated spots in the basement and there are also pre
purchased decals for above basement parking. He stated if free parking is
provided in the garage and not on the street the proximity of the street parking
may be worth the few quarters to the business owners and employees versus
walking to the garage. Further, he stated the key is we need to be looking at
something other than what we are doing and now is the time to try something
different than where we have been.
Council Member Wright stated if we want to look at trying something different
we look at the two hours free parking with chalking or another way to time it.
Town Council Work Session of November 10, 2008 Page 10
Mayor Umstattd verified the Town would not need to hire additional staff to
chalk tires.
Council Member Reid verified the fine for parking at a meter longer than two
hours is $10.
Mr. Wells stated staff will bring various options back for Council consideration
on Wednesday night.
e. VRT Bus Route Update
Kathy Leidich introduced Mike Socha, Virginia Regional Transit General
Manager. She stated the VRT Planning Team has been meeting for the past
several months and have proposed changes to the existing bus routes. She
stated there are currently three bus routes that serve the Town. She stated no
changes are proposed for the Blue Route which services the airport. She stated
for the Purple Route servicing Battlefield Parkway and Madison House the team
is proposing a change to add a stop at the Cornwall Medical Building. She stated
the final route is the Green Route for the Trolley and the team is proposing
moving the Outlet Mall stop from the food court to the Old Navy entrance to
allow the addition of stops for Fort Evans Plaza II and the Potomac Station
Shopping Center.
Mayor Umstattd stated the reason Council asked that the trolley stop at the
food court is that there was one citizen who could not walk all the way from the
Old Navy to the food court.
Ms. Leidich stated the Safe-T Ride bus will still stop at the food court. She
stated the reason VRT went through this process is that the County is currently
reviewing their 20 year transportation plan and it provided the Town the
opportunity to speak with staff and VRT to decide where the Town sees
themselves going in the future and how we can be more effective with the
routes we have. She stated the other proposed route for the future would be a
Hospitality Route which would take the place of the Green Route and use the
trolley. She stated the other additional route under review would be the
Battlefield Parkway Loop which would not come on line until Battlefield Parkway
is completely finished. She stated the team also looked at the Safe-T Ride,
which was adjusted to 39 hours per week. She stated passengers are very
happy with that service and only asked for minor adjustments to add a stop at
the Target and Costco and place informational kiosks at all stops. Further, she
stated the Town conducted a trial during the summer to add an additional bus
during the peak hours and the team is recommending that this continue for six
peak months during the year.
Vice Mayor Hammier thanked the VRT representatives for attending the
meeting.
Council Member Wright verified there is only one trolley and there is no
additional expense to the Town to operate the trolley versus a bus. Further, he
asked why the residential communities seem to have been skipped in the bus
routes.
Town Council Work Session of November 10, 2008 Page 11
Mr. Socha stated three years ago the Town had six routes in Leesburg and
VRT interviewed the drivers and riders and found that there was very little usage
from the residential communities so the routes were condensed to three.
Council Member Butler thanked Ms. Leidich and Mr. Socha for their update.
He stated his children love to ride the trolley around Town.
Council Member Reid thanked Mr. Socha for his efforts. He stated looking at
the proposed routes it looks like the park and ride lot will be serviced as well as
Freedom Park and asked if there is opportunity for the High School students to
use the Freedom Park stop if their activity bus is late.
Mr. Socha stated that is a possibility. He stated they have contracts with
Nysmith, Wakefield and Notre Dame that allow free transfer for the students
coming off those routes.
Council Member Reid stated the Route 7/Kincaid Boulevard link of Battlefield
Parkway will be open next fall and stated a bus could travel that route and go
into the Potomac Station and Fort Evans shopping centers. He stated the
activity bus for Harper Park Middle School takes a long time and suggested
looking into whether the school would allow their students to use a VRT bus.
Further, he stated he is skeptical of the Hospitality Route and asked if there is
data indicating that people come here without cars.
Ms. Leidich stated the Hospitality Route is just a concept that was recently
discussed at the Hospitality Forum. She stated this would allow the Town to
offer a partnership opportunity to help our businesses.
Council Member Reid suggested a route across Battlefield Parkway to Potomac
Station and Fort Evans Road to service the Southeast communities. He stated
when the Rehau section of Battlefield Parkway is constructed most of the loop
will be complete. He encouraged the extension of the Safe-T Ride hours stating
it is a great idea that has saved lives. Further, he stated it is the best we can do
until we can get the funds for a pedestrian bridge over the bypass.
Mayor Umstattd stated she has not looked at the Town website for a few
months; however, the last time she looked the trolley stop for the Government
Center was not described as being on Market and asked if that has been
updated.
Mr. Socha stated he would take care of that in the morning.
Mayor Umstattd stated this is good news and VRT does a great job.
f. Overland Relief
Bill Ackman stated the Design and Construction Manual (DCSM) changes will
be coming before Council in December to make the DCSM more consistent with
the Loudoun County regulations. He stated the calculations staff has worked on
for overland relief have shown that the Town can adopt the Loudoun County
regulations with a exception that those restrictions only apply to parcels with
under one acre of drainage. He stated the drafted regulations in December will
state that no calculations are required if the drainage area is less than an acre
as long as a foot is provided between the ground elevation and the lowest
Town Council Work Session of November 10, 2008 Page 12
opening of the building. He stated drainage areas over an acre would require
calculations providing six inches of freeboard with the possibility of zero
freeboard if six inches cannot be accommodated. He stated in instances where
no overland relief exists, the overland relief can be put underground as a last
resort. Further, he stated the private sector engineering firms have expressed
support for these modifications and a committee with members of the Northern
Virginia Building Association and the Office of Industrial Builders.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated strategically as the Town is looking at anything
that can fall into the category of going green it would be nice to highlight these
initiatives on the website.
Council Member Wright stated in several specific events we have allowed for
there to be a calculation of 50 percent clogged versus 100 percent clogged. He
stated in other jurisdictions do not do the 100 percent. He stated we require
that developers calculate these dramatic stormwater management scenarios and
receive a lot of unintended consequences like L.A. rivers and asked why we do
not use a lower percentage than 100.
Mr. Ackman stated that option is kept open in areas where it is not physically
possible to get the overland relief, which is now included in the revised
language. He stated the preference is always for overland relief. He stated the
inlets that take the water into the system are sized for a two year storm event
and leaves and debris can very easily clog them. He stated the pipes are
designed fora 10 year storm as it is not very cost effective to design them for a
100 year storm. Further, he stated on those occasions where there are no other
options we are allowing a lower percentage by sizing the inlets and pipes
appropriately.
Council Member Wright stated there have been some situations where the
relief can be installed overland, but the visual and cost result has been
undesirable. He stated we do not want to have more L.A. rivers built in Town
because in some cases we have over engineered.
Mr. Ackman stated from an engineering standpoint it is always better to take
your water overland. He stated staff has asked the private engineers to keep the
Town informed of instances where the revised regulations need to be amended
so that the process is fluid.
Council Member Wright verified low impact design will be included in the next
batch of DCSM amendments. Further, stated he circulated the changes to
individuals in the development community who have responded favorably.
Council Member Butler stated he supports the amendments.
Council Member Reid stated he is in general support of the changes. He
asked if a different standard will be allowed for existing development, such as
the case with Wage Drive where it is difficult to retrofit the 100 percent.
Mr. Ackman stated the new regulations take into account the existing
conditions of an area.
Town Council Work Session of November 10, 2008 Page 13
Council Member Reid asked if there are distinctions to allow a different
standard for a commercial building as long as it does not affect residential
property.
Mr. Ackman stated instead of dictating to the development community, we
allow provide the engineers with options such as using 50 percent if pipes of a
certain size are installed.
Council Member Reid stated he is very pleased with the amendments and is
looking forward to the public hearing.
Mayor Umstattd stated the only assurance she would like is given how happy
the engineering community is with this she would like to know how the
homeowners are going to view this change. She asked if the Town would see
less or equal flooding of basements.
Mr. Ackman stated the flooding should equal. He stated there is a certain
amount of responsibility on the design engineer and the majority of them
building in a small safety factor to ensure there are no flooding problems in the
future.
Mayor Umstattd stated in real life she does not think that happens. She
stated sometimes you are in a home for 10 years before your basement starts
flooding and your sump pump burns out. She stated new development next to
an existing residential community seems to inevitably to result in flooding of the
existing homes. Further, she stated that is the problem she hopes we would try
to solve.
Mr. Ackman stated the new regulations do not give any free passes and are
written for good engineering judgment with an everyday normal of designing a
freeboard of six inches. Further, he stated with that things should remain
similar to what they are today.
Council Member Wright stated his home would probably pass the regulations
based on a 100 year flood event as it floods from water seeping in through the
foundation and overwhelming the sump pump. He stated that is where we are
coming from in saying circumstances may stay the same as there are some
circumstances where sump pumps become overwhelmed and you may not be
able to see the water from above.
g. First Night Leesburg/Non-Profit Structure
Mr. Wells stated several weeks ago members of the Board of Directors of First
Night Leesburg came to him with concerns regarding the long term viability of
their 501C(3) with the understanding that there is strong interest in maintaining
this event. He stated in looking at the financial statements staff found that the
revenues for the nonprofit have decreased. He stated what is being discussed ~is
an alternative similar to Bluemont's agreement with the Town of Warrenton. He
stated Council is not being asked for additional funds for Bluemont or First Night.
He stated if there were poor weather conditions or other negative impacts that
would affect the program in any one year the Town would be a safety net. He
stated the program will continue to be funded by attendees, the Town, County
and sponsors. Further, he suggested that due to the lateness in the year the
Town Council Work Session of November 10, 2008 Page 14
program continue as currently structured this year and Council could direct staff
to work towards an agreement for Council approval in the first quarter of 2009.
Bob Sevila, First Night Leesburg, stated this program started in 1985 and was
an overwhelming success the first year. He stated unfortunately the financial
viability and success is based on how many people attend, the expenses, the
corporate contributions and good weather; however, when the weather is bad or
attendance is low the program goes into the hole. He stated the reserve has
shrunk from $16,000 to $2,000 over the past four years and they live in fear of
bad weather. He stated that has brought about the possibility of eliminating the
nonprofit cooperation and merging into Bluemont and allowing the program to
function as it does with the Town of Warrenton. He stated he believes that
arrangement would work well in Leesburg and that the program is important
enough to the Town that the citizens would want it to continue. He stated the
Town of Warrenton participates in their First Night program and he would
welcome that here as well. Further, he asked that Council consider this more
involved role of the Town to allow the Board of Directors to transfer their assets
to Bluemont Concert Series and allow them to take this on as a project with the
backing and support of the Town.
Vice Mayor Hammler asked if the Board of Directors has reached out to the
County.
Mr. Sevila stated the County is a regular contributor to the event.
Vice Mayor Hammler asked if they have been approached as the insurer.
Mr. Sevila stated they have not.
Peter Dunning, Bluemont Concert Series stated the County is going through a
major review of their non-departmental appropriations and they are meeting
with County staff to go over the structure of First Night later this month. He
stated he is talking with them about their continued support and concern for the
sustainability of the program in this current environment.
Vice Mayor Hammler stated she would like feedback as to whether they would
be willing to be part of a joint venture to balance the risk. She stated Town
Manager has already contacted every staff department to reduce their budgets
by four percent and we need to ensure the Town has enough reserves. She
stated she is a huge supporter of Bluemont Concert Series as it is a wonderful
amenity for the Town and First Night as it is a wonderful way to start off the
New Year.
Council Member Dunn stated it is nice to help out groups that help the
Downtown, but what we need to look at is not aband-aid but doing what needs
to be done to make people come downtown. He stated we need to look at
serious funding; business improvement districts and such so these people do not
have to come to us for extra funds because their events are successful and
because they are downtown.
Council Member Wright stating he supports getting away from simply making
a donation to actually having performance standards. He stated he would like to
quantify better the information of what would go into that. He stated there are
Town Council Work Session of November 10, 2008 Page 15
a couple of things that are impacting the viability of the current event, such as
the weather and economy; however, the event also needs a shot of energy to
make sure it is vibrant to our current target market. Further, he stated it is
important to ensure there is a viable business plan in place to ensure the safety
net does not kick in after the first year.
Council Member Butler stated in theory we are not increasing our
contribution; however the Town could end up putting a lot of money into this. If
we are do enter this partnership we need, as Council Member Wright said, some
way for us to help turn this program into something that would help the reserves
increase. Further, he stated if it looks like the reserves will not increase then we
need to look at the viability of continuing the program as the community may
have changed enough that this is not the right kind of event; although, he hopes
that is not the case.
Council Member Reid stated he looks forward to working with Bluemont
Concert Series and the First Night Board of Directors and thanked them for
addressing Council.
Mr. Sevila stated he hopes Council will look at this as a proactive step and not
that the Board of Directors is coming to Council in the hole. He stated the
Warrenton First Night went out of business and the Town of Warrenton solicited
Bluemont Concert Series to produce the program on an annual basis. He stated
they are expecting a successful year; however, Bluemont Concert Series cannot
solely bear the risk and would like to form a partnership with the Town, since
the Town benefits from the program.
Mayor Umstattd stated the business donations for First Night Leesburg have
increased substantially in the last couple of years which is a good sign.
Mr. Sevila stated it is a sign that the program is favored in the Town and
business community. He stated they are concerned about support this year
given the reductions in corporate and individual giving, but are very encouraged
by the support they have received in the past.
Mayor Umstattd stated the number of attendees has decreased which brings
up the concerns raised by Council Member Wright.
Mr. Sevila stated attendance was up last year.
Mayor Umstattd stated Council Members Wright and Butler raised good points
as asking a family to pay $8 per person puts the program in competition with
other family activities such as renting movies. She stated it is important to
expand the choice of activities and to think about what might appeal to the
current demographics of Leesburg.
Mr. Sevila stated he would welcome Council input.
Council Member Dunn stated the most successful event to point to is the
Town's recent birthday party. He stated 95 percent of the activities were geared
to the children. He stated if you want to have a successful event it should be
geared to kids and have kid-friendly activities till 9:00 p.m. with more adult
friendly activities later in the evening.
Town Council Work Session of November 10, 2008 Pa4e 16
Vice Mayor Hammler stated she and Council Member Reid spent quite a bit of
time with the council members from the Town of Warrenton at the VML
Conference. She stated one thing she took away from her time with them is
how fiscally conservative they are so it really says something if they are backing
their First Night Celebration as their tax rate is 1.5 cents. Further, she stated
their Town Manager provided a presentation about walkability and visual
transformations to allow us see what we can accomplish on King Street.
2. Closed Session
i. Water Rate Litigation Update
ii. Dominion Virginia Power
iii. Personnel Matter
On a motion by Mayor Umstattd, seconded by Council Member Butler, the
following motion was proposed:
MOTION
Pursuant to Section 2.2-3711(A)(7) and 2.2-3711(A)(1) of the Code of Virginia, I
move that the Leesburg Town Council convene in a closed meeting to receive
updates on legal matters regarding water rate litigation, Dominion Virginia Power
and a personnel matter.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Hammler, Martinez, Reid, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Dunn absent)
The Council convened in closed session at 9:53 p.m.
The Council reconvened in open session at 10:40 p.m.
On a motion by Mayor Umstattd, seconded by Council Member Martinez, the
following motion was proposed:
MOTION
In accordance with Section 2.2-3712 of the Code of Virginia, I move that Council
certify that to the best of each member's knowledge, only public business matters
lawfully exempted from open meeting requirements under the Virginia Freedom of
Information Act and such public business matters as were identified in the motion by
which the closed meeting was convened were heard, discussed or considered in the
meeting by Council
The motion was approved by the following roll call vote:
Aye: Butler, Hammler, Martinez, Reid, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Dunn absent)
Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 10:40 p.m
2008_tcwsmin 1110
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