HomeMy Public PortalAbout2009_tcwsmin0112
Council Work Session
January 12, 2009
Council Chambers, 25 West Market Street, 7:30 p.m. Mayor Umstattd presiding.
Council Members Present: David Butler, Thomas Dunn, II, Katie Sheldon
Hammier, Marty Martinez, Ken Reid, Kevin Wright and Mayor Kristen Umstattd
Council Members Absent: Council Member Dunn arrived at 7:40 p.m. and Council
Member Martinez left at 10:00 p.m.
Staff Present: Town Manager John Wells, Town Attorney Jeanette Irby,
Deputy Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Director of Public Works Tom Mason,
Transportation Engineer Calvin Grow, Senior Engineer Anne Geiger, Preservation
Planner Annie McDonald, and Management Specialist/Deputy Clerk of Council Debi
Parry
AGENDA ITEMS
1. Work Session Items for Discussion:
a. SRTC Presentation - Liz Whiting
Liz Whiting, Standing Residential Traffic Committee (SRTC) Chairman,
provided Council with an update of the Committee's discussions regarding Valley
View Avenue. She stated at their next meeting the Committee will discuss
several options for this area including removing the barricade and limiting a
portion of Valley View Avenue, from Stratford Place to Davis Avenue, to
northbound traffic only. She stated this would eliminate the cutthrough traffic
generated by vehicles traveling southbound, which was the main concern on the
citizens. She stated the Committee will reach out to the citizens and bring this
item back to a February work session for discussion.
Mayor Umstattd asked how the southbound traffic would be prevented.
Ms. Whiting stated "Do Not Enter" signs could be posted as you approach the
north. She stated other than the resident going in to their driveway at the
corner, no one else will travel south even if they live there.
Mayor Umstattd expressed concern that residents will ignore the signs and
drive through anyway such as the motorists who attempt to cross the Lawson
Road Bridge when it is closed. She stated she does not know of any other area
in Town where we have done this and it worked.
Calvin Grow stated he does not know of any other area in Town where this
would work; however, similar actions have worked in the past. He stated is just
an option that has been provided to the citizens for their consideration.
Ms. Whiting stated we do have instances where traffic has been restricted in
one direction; however, you can't keep the crazies out.
Council Member Wright verified the area of roadway that would be limited to
one way traffic. He expressed concern that this may not solve the problem as it
seems there would be more cut through traffic in the evening than in the
morning. He asked if the traffic counts could be used through our transportation
model to determine if this will address the residents' concerns.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
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Ms. Whiting stated she does not know how the modeling was done for the
subdivision. She stated today there is a lot of traffic using Davis Avenue to Lee
and the volume of traffic traveling to Dry Mill Road in the evenings is stunning.
Council Member Martinez stated using Dry Mill Road gives the sense that you
are at least moving.
Ms. Whiting stated the Committee would also like to recommend that Council
use existing budget funds to install a lighted pedestrian crosswalk across North
King Street at Oakcrest Manor Drive. She stated this location was
recommended as a demonstration project because it meets the criteria for
responding to residential traffic concerns, is in a location that generates a fair
amount of pedestrian traffic, and is in a location with expected volumes of
nighttime traffic.
Council Member Martinez stated he has seen lighted crosswalks while visiting
family in California and would love to have one installed at this intersection.
Ms. Whiting stated there is a lot of promise in this proposal and the
Committee felt this was a good recommendation to bring forward. She stated
the Committee's other recommendation is to complete a pedestrian linkage in
Exeter at the clubhouse on Plaza Street and Battlefield Parkway if the HOA is
willing to donate the right of way.
Mayor Umstattd asked how traffic for the hospital and new high school will be
impacted by the lighted crosswalk.
Ms. Whiting stated you are going to have those conflicts with the use of King
Street anyway because the Bypass is too overcrowded to carry the additional
traffic. She stated if it works the way it should it will enhance safety.
Council Member Butler verified the lights will only come on when someone is
in the crosswalk.
Council Member Wright asked if this intersection would provide a higher yield
than an intersection at one of the bike trail crossings.
Ms. Whiting stated the only bike trail crossing the Committee felt would be
appropriate was where the W&OD trail crosses South King Street. She stated
these crosswalks cannot be placed where there are signal controlled
intersections.
Council Member Wright asked if the lighted crosswalk could be installed where
the W&OD trail crosses Dry Mill Road or at the other crossing on Catoctin Circle
near Loudoun County High School.
Mr. Grow stated the Committee felt the crosswalk should be placed where it
would get more nighttime use.
Ms. Whiting stated Ida Lee Park is a magnet for pedestrian traffic all day long.
Town Council Work Session of Januarv 12. 2009
Page 3
Council Member Wright stated it was mentioned that the funding for this
would come from this year's budget. He stated he is confused because it was
his understanding that all projects for this year were programmed when the
budget was approved as opposed to having a general fund for projects. Further,
he asked if this funding is from the Fiscal Year 2009 budget or Fiscal Year 2010.
Mr. Wells stated in Fiscal Year 2007 $80,000 was budgeted of which $50,000
was expended and $29,000 was carried forward in an encumbrance to Fiscal
Year 2008. He stated in Fiscal Year 2008 $80,000 was budgeted for a total of
$109,000 and a number of items were purchased with $58,000 carried forward
to Fiscal Year 2009. He stated in Fiscal Year 2009 $60,000 was budgeted and
added to the $58,000 that was carried over for a total of $118,000 for the
current year. He stated Council had indicated an interest in feedback signs and
$58,000 was used for that purpose leaving a total of $60,000 unspent.
Council Member Wright stated it was his understanding that unspent funds
revert to the General Fund at the end of the year unless they are encumbered.
Mr. Wells stated he needs to go into more detail to determine how the funds
were carried over. He stated only Council can re-appropriate funds from year to
year which does not happen automatically and Council has not taken that action.
Council Member Wright stated we continue to do mid-year expenditures and
he would feel more comfortable if these projects were added to the Fiscal Year
2010 budget to give staff time to prepare staff reports on each item.
Ms. Whiting stated the last several years the Committee has come forward
with a budget request containing several requests as well as requests for
uncommitted funds per quadrant to handle concerns raised during the year.
She stated this allows the flexibility to get the staff studies and brings the
projects to Council before the funds are expended.
Council Member Wright stated over the past three years $60,000 has built up
in a bucket that we didn't know about. He stated last year as we tried to set a
tax rate $60,000 would have helped us. He stated he does not support saying
we are going to spend money in every quadrant; however, he does support
having a reserve for items that come up during the year. Further, he stated he
wants to make sure we are addressing needs rather than trying to find
something to buy.
Ms. Whiting stated the quadrant sensitivity is to make sure we are always
looking not only for particular projects, but also where we have been spending
money as it is critical to address needs in each quadrant to maintain community
buy-in. She stated this also challenges the Committee members to think
beyond their own neighborhoods and to recognize issues around Town.
Mayor Umstattd stated this is beginning to look like we are finding ways to
spend money. She stated we have not had a huge community uprising asking
Council to open Valley View Avenue. She stated the Committee is looking
forward and doing what they need to be doing; however, we are in a terrible
budget situation and she is nervous abolJt spending $20,000 here and $60,000
there. She stated at this point she is skeptical about funding anything,
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 4
especially in the absence of a neighborhood coming forward with a desperate
need.
Ms. Whiting stated on Valley View Avenue we are not looking to spend any
Town money other than the "Do Not Enter" signs. She stated part of what the
Committee is charged to do is to bring Council demonstration projects and there
has been a long standing interest in this lighted pedestrian crosswalk. She
stated Council is the policy maker; however, the Committee felt this project was
in keeping with the philosophy of Council and the committee is tasked with
bringing these items forward.
Council Member Butler stated in his tenure on the SRTC there were a number
of people in that area of Town complaining that it is hard to get across the street
and the Committee has struggled to find a good solution without adding more
signs. He stated he believes the lighted pedestrian crosswalk is a good
demonstration project for the Town.
Mayor Umstattd asked how much the project will cost.
Ms. Whiting stated the project is estimated at $43,000 including $30,000 for
the system itself.
Council Member Butler verified a separate system is required for each
crosswalk.
Council Member Reid stated there was a lot of neighborhood interest for a
crosswalk at Plaza Street at Battlefield Parkway.
Ms. Whiting stated the intersection of Plaza Street and Battlefield Parkway has
been discussed for a regular crosswalk.
Council Member Reid stated he also has an interest in a project to place a
guardrail on Plaza Street because we have now had a traffic death there that
probably could have been avoided. He stated that is an area where there might
be more pressing need than a lighted crosswalk. Further, he stated he does
support the crosswalk at Plaza Street and Battlefield.
Mayor Umstattd asked if Council Member Reid would like that added to the
Capital Improvements Program (CIP) or would he recommend using leftover
funds.
Council Member Reid asked what Mr. Wells would recommend. He stated he
would like to have the crosswalk on Plaza Street in Exeter completed before the
pool opens.
Council Member Martinez stated he agrees with a lot of Council Member
Wright's comments stating carrying money forward without Council's knowledge
concerns him. He stated he does not want to spend money just to spend it;
however, if he supports it if there is a pressing need.
Mr. Wells stated the auditors will provide their report for Fiscal Year 2008 at
the next Council Work Session. He stated staff will also provide updated
information regarding the Fiscal Year 2010 picture including assessment rates.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 5
Further, he recommended that Council discuss these SRTC proposals after
hearing the budget presentation.
Council Member Martinez asked that an official proposal be provided for the
lighted crosswalk and Plaza Street guardrail.
Council Member Reid asked if the guardrail issue and what happened with the
accident could be discussed tonight since Ms. Whiting is already here.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated it seems this should be part of the whole budget
discussion as Ms. Whiting's time would have been better served in that context.
She stated she also recalls during the Plaza Street crosswalk discussion we
discussed the possibility of beginning a bike lane project in terms of putting lines
on the street which is among the more strategic oriented things we may want in
the mix. She stated she would prefer deferring this discussion until the budget
meetings.
Council Member Wright concurred with Vice Mayor Hammier's comments. He
stated we all see newspaper headlines and stories then react; however, after
driving out to the scene and examining other facts he is not sure that the
guardrail would have solved the problem. He stated he would rather we take a
step back and let the staff and SRTC look at the issue to see if it meets the
warrants for a guardrail.
Council Member Reid stated he would like to discuss this item since Ms.
Whiting is already at the meeting.
It was the consensus of the majority of Council to defer this topic.
Ms. Whiting stated the Committee has asked for more information and has
not taken a position on this item.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated we all have the realization that we are waiting for
an accident to happen with all of the pedestrians crossing the Route 7/15
Bypass. She stated strategically we need to take a look at all of the issues
during the budget.
Mr. Wells stated the SRTC will move forward on the Valley View issue to meet
with the residents and the other issues regarding the expenditure of funds will
be put into the context of the broader budget issue.
Council Member Reid stated the guardrail issue was vetted by the SRTC and
he would like staff to look at the cost of the guardrail for the next meeting.
b. Commission on Public Art Task #1 Expenditure Request
Mayor Umstattd stated this request is for $1,500 to be distributed to three
artists and then $25,000 for the artist chosen to create a public art piece for the
Ida Lee swimming pool.
Anne Geiger reminded Council that the appropriation of $25,000 will come to
Council for a vote at the appropriate time. She stated the $1,500 is for a
customary $500 payment to three artists to produce a miniaturized version of
their vision for the project.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 6
Council Member Wright stated the $500 would be provided to a maximum of
three finalists.
Council Member Butler asked why Council is required to vote on an
appropriation of $1,500.
Ms. Geiger stated this is the first time the Commission is doing this and they
want the process to be transparent.
Council Member Dunn asked where the $25,000 is coming from.
Ms. Geiger stated the $26,500 is coming from the Ida Lee Symington funds
for the pool project.
Mayor Umstattd asked if the project would use taxpayer dollars.
Mr. Wells stated in the cost of the project ultimately you may have taxpayer
dollars involved five years out based on the performance of the bond and pool.
Council Member Dunn stated whatever Symington funds we use is money that
is not going back into Ida Lee. He stated since the Town is subsidizing Ida Lee
by 30 percent anyway, in an essence it is taxpayer dollars. He asked what other
efforts have been made to acquire funds for this project.
Ms. Geiger stated the Commission has not made any effort to find outside
funds for this project because there is money available for this. She stated at
this point including everything we can possibly think of with the pool, including
the art, the Town still has a $270,000 contingency.
Council Member Dunn stated it is his understanding that the Commission is
supposed to seek a number of alternate funding sources before coming to the
Town.
Council Member Wright stated part of their scope is to identify opportunities
for public art. He stated the timing of this was such that have to begin the
process and identify existing funds within the capital project. He stated in order
to put out the RFP they need to provide information on what they are building
to. He stated the Commission continues their research for grants and other
items to find other funding sources; however, in order to meet the deadline to
incorporate public art in this project they need to move forward. Further, he
stated this is within the guidelines of what Council discussed in taking money
from a capital project for public art.
Council Member Reid verified this does not have to be done while the pool is
under construction. He asked what type of art the Commission is considering.
Ms. Geiger stated the Art Advisory Panel will determine the type of art;
however, she stated in essence this would be to do something on the bathhouse
wall inside the pool area.
Council Member Dunn stated when this process was established a few months
ago it was made clear that other funding sources would be sought before coming
Town Council Work Session of Januarv 12. 2009
Page 7
to the Town for funds. He stated he was hoping the first request would be the
result of a search for other funding.
Ms. Geiger stated that was the Commission's hope as well; however, the
timing of this project lent itself to this approach. She stated as of July 1 the
money goes away so if it is not encumbered there is no more money.
Council Member Dunn verified the $270,000 will be used for another project
at Ida Lee if it is not fully expended for the pool.
Council Member Reid asked if Ms. Geiger has spent a lot of time on this
project.
Ms. Geiger stated being a Commission liaison is just like having another
project to work on.
Council Member Reid stated this is one of the reasons he voted against the
guidelines. He stated we currently have a budget situation and would like to
acquire the triangle, which we have money for. He stated to spend money on
this and not spend money on a crosswalk or guardrail would take his breath
away. He stated he knows these are two separate issues; however, if we
appropriate this money even though it is small it will lead to more staff time,
more committee time and $25,000 to put up a mural at the new pool is not an
important expenditure right now. He stated he is sure in the next budget we will
be asked for the $25,000 from the Symington donation for the coming year even
though we we're not necessarily going to do this right away.
Council Member Dunn stated it is the intention of the Committee to ask for
the entire $26,500 not just the $1,500.
Council Member Reid stated he is afraid that if we get started on this project
it will lead to the demand for the $25,000 and he is not sure the Commission will
get a grant to cover that amount. He stated he would rather put the $26,500
towards purchasing the remaining O'Connor land (triangle).
Council Member Dunn stated we just talked about pedestrian safety and that
$26,500 could go to more crosswalks to help pedestrians get to Ida Lee in the
future.
Council Member Martinez stated we should not count on the fact that we will
have $270,000 left in the contingency fund.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated because of the wonderful donation from Ms.
Symington, Council was able to direct three projects including land acquisition, a
pool and the tennis courts. She stated the tennis courts are fortunately now
making money and we ended up allocating an additional $4 million back to the
pool. She stated having just sat through two meetings of the Parks and
Recreation Commission where there was discussion of the estimated price to get
into the pool, we need to be careful of the message we are sending. She stated
any funds left over from the $270,000 could go to offset fees for in-Town
residents. Further, she stated an amenity like art would be wonderful to have
front and center at Ida Lee where everyone can enjoy it.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 8
Mayor Umstattd asked why the $26,500 will go away at the end of the fiscal
year if it is not fully spent.
Ms. Geiger stated right now the funding is allocated to the pool; however,
whatever is left of the $7 million at the end of the fiscal year would go back to
the Symington Fund if it is unused.
Mr. Wells stated the capital projec~ should complete by Memorial Day. He
stated the $26,500 will not be available to the pool, but will be available in the
Symington Fund. He stated Council will not lose control of the money.
Mayor Umstattd verified theoretically Council could make the decision in a
year to spend funds for this type of project.
Council Member Wright stated the idea was to look at these types of
opportunities to incorporate within the funding of the capital project. He stated
if this art is to be a part of the pool project then we need to execute a purchase
order by the conclusion of the pool project.
Mr. Wells stated there were a lot of ideas regarding the type of art that could
be done and some of those ideas would have needed to be done during
construction of the project. He stated it was those ideas that drove this timing
more so than the funding portion of it. He stated Council will not lose the money
and can use it at anytime they wish.
Vice Mayor Hammier asked if the funds could be reallocated to benefit the fee
structure.
Mr. Wells stated the fee structure will have an impact on the bottom line
number for the local tax funding requirement five years out. He stated as you
change the fee structure you change the pro forma which can have a positive or
negative impact on the revenue package.
Council Member Dunn stated he still had hoped that the first project would
be funded by outside sources. He stated now instead of saving money we are
looking for ways to spend money and that is not what he would like to see
Council do.
Council Member Wright stated if we continue to look for grant funding and not
find grant funding we will also continue to build and complete capital projects.
He stated one of the reasons that the Commission decided not to do an art
project with the sidewalks is because the sidewalks were going to be poured
before this happened. He stated if art is something we want to incorporate into
our capital projects or our community then we have to do it. If it is not
something that we want to incorporate then we need to have a follow up
discussion of whether we need to be wasting people's time.
Council Member Butler concurred with Council Member Wright's comments.
He stated we have a $7 million pool and if we're not willing to put $26,500 in
there to make it more attractive, that says a lot about the Town. He stated we
might as well disband the Public Art Committee because we are not going to
fund anything. He stated no matter what we ever fund with art we can always
say we should put it towards other projects, but if we want to do art then we
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 9
need to find a way to do it. Further, he stated 0.3 percent of $7 million is a
small amount that we can put towards this so we can take a little bit of extra
pride in the Town.
Council Member Dunn stated 0.3 percent of every project is a lot of money.
He stated we established the guidelines and the Art Commission said they would
seek all other sources and then come back to the Town.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she hopes that her comments do not suggest that
she does not support public art. She stated personally she thinks Ida Lee is one
of the most beautiful places in Town. She stated she tends to want to gear the
focus to beautification and art in certain parts of Town that could benefit from it
by raising morale and improving public safety. She stated this is an expensive
capital project and we are sending a strong message to citizens who will not
even be able to afford to go to the pool.
Council Member Wright stated the point he was trying to make as Council's
liaison to the Commission is to voice those concerns. He stated if there are not
four votes to carry this process forward then he does not know what to go back
and tell the Commission to work on. He stated to move forward with finding
grants they are going to have to say what the Town wants and he doesn't know
that he can answer that question. He stated one of the things we talked to
them about was identifying opportunities in capital projects and if that is not
what we want, then we need to figure out what we want them to work on.
Council Member Reid stated he agrees with Council Member Wright. He
stated he has been a skeptic of this and he is concerned about the staff time
involved. He stated if the Commission could apply for $25,000 in grant funding
to pay for the mural then he would be much happier.
Council Member Butler stated it takes a lot of time to apply for grants and you
mayor may not get one every once in a while. He stated you will end up with a
Commission that will not want to do this because they do not want to spend all
of their time writing grants. He stated if the fees for the pool are too high it will
not be because of $25,000 in art, it will be because we needed an extra $4
million for a regional water park with an extra lap pool and not the community
pool for areas around Town who do not have community pool as was the original
intent. He stated he hopes that in the future when we plan a capital project we
will plan the art in at the beginning so we do not have to go through this again.
Council Member Martinez stated Council can request proffer funding for public
art from developers. He stated he is just as serious as anybody about keeping
taxes low; however, this Town is not just one facet. He stated our citizens have
a lot of needs such as a dog park, ball fields and pools and fortunately we have
a large number of proponents for art. He stated with the Ida Lee project we
have the opportunity to affect something that will be good and not impact the
construction of the project.
Mayor Umstattd stated Council Members Wright, Butler and Martinez have
raised good points. She stated when we are looking at $26,500 that is a small
portion of the project cost; however, when we charge $7.00 per child that would
cover the cost of 4,000 child visits. She stated she is skeptical about using this
money for art but agrees that if we are going to have a Public Arts Commission
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Paqe 10
that is looking for projects it seems a shame from their standpoint that they are
doing this for nothing.
Council Member Martinez stated he would agree with the Mayor if we were
only talking about a year. He stated the pool will be open for 20 to 30 years and
if you amortize that over life to the bill it doesn't really come back. He stated he
agrees that we need to find a way to allow the children to use the pool at least
one day a week even if they cannot afford it.
c. Overview of Proposed H-1 Guidelines
Annie McDonald stated the current H-1 Guidelines are too vague and result in
inconsistency in decision making and outlined the proposed H-1 Guidelines. She
stated the new guidelines are clearly organized and well laid out. She stated
process information will be removed from the document and placed in a
procedures manual to ensure the information is kept up to date.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated Ms. Irby had raised some questions as to the
legality of some of the edits in the proposed guidelines and asked that she
ensure that those edits have been incorporated in the proposed document.
Ms. McDonald stated the Planning Commission held a public hearing on
December 4 and approved the guidelines that same night. She stated their
motion to approve included two modifications and outline of the amendments.
Council Member Wright stated page 6 mentions that the BAR can request a
meeting with a property owner if their building is falling to disrepair.
Ms. McDonald stated the authority is in the Zoning Ordinance.
Council Member Wright stated he likes the change to the neighborhood map
to remove the boundaries. He stated it is his understanding that when the BAR
looks at a project they look at its relationship to the overall district, whether it is
appropriate for the overall district and how it relates to its surroundings. He
expressed concern that the Town is not looking at how projects relate to the
overall district and surroundings, rather we seem to look at how it relates to the
block and in some cases the block is changed and isn't right to begin with.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated Ms. Irby had found at least a half dozen places
where that language had to be amended and asked if she had edited the
language.
Ms. Irby stated she has not edited the language at this point. She stated she
has shared her concerns with staff; however, this is a philosophical discussion
that may come down to a policy decision by Council.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she strongly supports looking at the context of
the neighborhood as a whole. She stated we need to look at what the exact
language is in specific places. Further, she stated we need to support the vision
of the Downtown as a living, breathing, evolving important district and not just a
museum.
Council Member Wright stated in his opinion you need to look at both the
overall district and how a project relates to its surroundings.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 11
Ms. McDonald stated there are degrees of relationship. She stated the
relationship of a project to its surroundings radiates out. She stated the
Downtown Improvement Association has stated every building is the center of
its own neighborhood. She stated the degrees of relationship are first to the
buildings immediately around it and as relating to what is immediately around it
the building does relate to the district as a whole.
Council Member Wright stated in this relationship we still need to preserve
what we have lost. He asked how the proposed guidelines would relate to the
reconstruction of the Leesburg Inn or Opera House.
Ms. McDonald stated both the existing and proposed guidelines would support
the reconstruction of those structures. She stated an example would be the
Photoworks building which is one of the tallest structures in Town.
Council Member Wright stated Planning Commission Chairman Kalreiss
mentioned areas where the guidelines opine on how to do things like stucco and
his concern is that we've given generic information that maybe just enough for
an individual to feel they could do it themselves and possibly harm themselves
or the structure. He asked if those places had been amended.
Ms. McDonald stated that concern was not memorialized in the motion. She
stated one of his main concerns was that the document makes
recommendations in these areas, but not requirements. She stated those
sections were not amended.
Council Member Wright stated if we are opining on something that we do not
have to opine on then we should remove it. He stated we should consider
whether we are doing help or harm.
Council Member Dunn asked if we are not going to show the neighborhood
boundaries on the map then why even have the map.
Ms. McDonald stated it is very easy to look at the district as a resident;
however, it is also important to realize the document will be used by people that
we never see. She stated the map encourages people not just to look at the
architectural style but how the surrounding area evolved over time.
Council Member Dunn stated in looking at the whole Historic District as soon
as you look for a rule there is an exception. He stated this looks very theoretical
and he does not want there to be any mandated language regarding the
neighborhood boundaries.
Council Member Reid stated these guidelines are a substantial improvement
over the existing guidelines. He asked that where the document refers readers
to the Zoning Ordinance or other document that it specify the specific section.
He stated there still some old sections of the old Zoning Ordinance in the
document and asked that the references be revised.
Ms. McDonald stated the ordinance on the back of the document will be
revised to ensure it is current.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 12
Council Member Reid stated he is concerned about the neighborhood zones
stating it may cause mischief with future BARs. He stated we allow stamped
concrete to be used in our crosswalks even though the Town's ordinance
requires brick sidewalks. He stated certain materials such as stamped concrete
should be allowed and asked if that could be encompassed in the Materials
section.
Ms. McDonald stated these guidelines do not cover public sidewalks.
Council Member Reid stated he realizes that the guidelines pertain to private
structures; however, we do allow the stamped concrete in our crosswalks in the
Historic District.
Ms. McDonald stated the guidelines for driveways, walkways and parking
areas for new construction state, "Ensure new paving materials are compatible
with the character of the area." She stated that allows latitude. She stated the
guidelines for new material states when you are proposing a material that is not
a traditional material; it needs to meet a standard for visual compatibility such
as conveying a traditional construction technique. She stated some brick
stamping is very successful.
Council Member Reid verified no one had proposed the use of stamped brick
since Ms. McDonald has been with the Town. He stated in looking at the
crosswalks he did not realize that they were not brick. He stated if we are doing
it in violation of our ordinance, then an applicant coming forward with a proposal
for stamped asphalt for a back yard patio should be allowed to do so.
Ms. McDonald stated the Town has permitted stone stamping for a residential
new construction rear patio.
Council Member Reid asked if triple pane windows can be used.
Ms. McDonald stated there is no prohibition as long as the pane dividers are
exterior to ensure visual compatibility with a traditional window design.
Council Member Reid verified the windows do not have to be made of wood.
Ms. Irby stated it has only been revised to an extent. She stated there is a
section on inappropriate materials, which was part of her objection. She stated
because we do not write building codes we do not get to regulate that.
Council Member Reid asked if manufactured stone would be considered
stamped concrete.
Ms. McDonald stated manufactured stone is a way of creating stone, it is not
stamped concrete.
Council Member Reid stated it sounds like stamped concrete could be used for
walkways.
Ms. McDonald stated it seems the Town Attorney is saying that the
inappropriate materials section may not be legally defensible and may
recommend that it be removed.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 14
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she would like Council to give direction to Ms.
Irby regarding the edits and even what Mr. Meyer just addressed. She stated
she would also like to bring back discussion of the appeal process changes.
Mayor Umstattd asked if there were a home in the Historic District that has
German siding which needed to be replaced, would it have to be replaced with
the same material or could it be replaced with plain wood siding.
Ms. McDonald stated preferably it would be replaced in kind. She stated if an
applicant can demonstrate that a plain beveled wood siding is appropriate for
the structure, the most important thing would be the compatibility in the
material itself. Further, she stated her opinion is that as long as there is support
in the surrounding area she could support a beveled siding over a German
siding.
Mayor Umstattd stated in the past there were two appeals to Council related
to siding where the BAR turned down a request to replace German siding with
plain wood siding. She stated in both cases the Council overruled the BAR and
allowed the cheaper siding. She stated her concern is that everything is more
expensive in the Historic District and feels that if a property owner wants to use
a cheaper siding they should be allowed.
Ms. McDonald stated the guidelines for wood for existing buildings state,
"Replace wood elements only if they are deteriorating beyond repair....match the
original in material, texture, dimensions and design." She stated in other places
the BAR has inserted language such as "where possible" or "where feasible" and
suggested such an insertion here to address the Mayor's concerns.
There was further discussion regarding this possible amendment.
Council Member Wright stated he is happy with the language stating to match
the material, texture, dimensions and design. He stated in other places it simply
says to match the material and he is not as concerned with the material, but as
to how it looks. He stated there are simulated products now that accomplish the
same goal which are better from an environmental and maintenance standpoint.
Ms. McDonald stated that is a broader policy change that Council will have to
make. She stated up till now the BAR has maintained the national preservation
standard of "retain, repair, replace and when you replace, replace in kind". She
stated cost is frequently not an issue because when you are replacing you are
replacing small components as necessary as the goal is to maintain the historic
structure over all.
Mr. Meyer stated there is a real distinction between historic structures and
new construction and additions. He stated there is more fleXibility with additions
than historic structures.
Council Member Butler stated it does not seem natural to him to have a BAR
review an application after Council and the Planning Commission.
Mr. Wells stated that resulted from a discussion Council had at a joint work
session and has not been entirely worked out. He stated no one is entirely
satisfied with where we are at and this is still a work in progress.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 15
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she has tried to figure out in her mind how best
to address the issue. She stated an elected body makes a decision that should
not later be undone.
Council Member Butler stated it seems odd to have Council approve
something before the BAR.
Council Member Reid asked if a statement should be added to the guidelines
regarding how this is a living downtown and we do not expect everything to be
static.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she would support that.
Council Member Wright stated the broader question is do the guidelines
accomplish that.
Council Member Reid stated the guidelines do accomplish that, but it would be
nice to have a statement of principal.
Council Member Wright stated he does not know that it would appear in the
guidelines.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated Zoning Ordinance Section 7.5.1 reaffirms the
purpose ofthe H-1 Overlay District.
Council Member Wright stated the Zoning Ordinance is already referenced.
Mr. Meyer asked Council to consider how applications that have already been
submitted will be effected by the revised guidelines.
Ms. Irby asked Council how they would like to address cases where
improvements are made in a backyard and not visible from the public right of
way.
Mayor Umstattd stated it is hard for her to justify making an improvement go
before the BAR when only the residents of the house will see it.
Council Member Reid concurred with Mayor Umstattd.
Council Member Dunn stated he leans more towards BAR being historic
preservationists. He stated many times in true historic buildings the back yards
are visible from the other side of the block and he is hesitant to not have the
guidelines effective in the back yard.
Council Member Reid stated this_should be evaluated on an applicant by
applicant basis.
Council Member Dunn stated that would open the case up to opinion.
Council Member Wright suggested he would like to wait till after the public
hearing to give direction. He stated this may not be a case by case basis; rather
it would be whether the back deck is viewable from the public right of way. He
stated that is something that he might be willing to entertain. Further, he
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 13
Vice Mayor Hammier stated it seems the inappropriate materials chart is a
non-starter from a legal standpoint. She stated we need to ensure that each of
the legal edits are coming forward because of the sheer volume of what we are
dealing with. She stated she would like to ensure that the next document
Council receives incorporates the edits in a concise package.
Council Member Reid verified the guidelines do not get into detail regarding
landscaping. He stated his final concern is the section with massing. He
expressed concern with the techniques to reduce massing stating the example
suggests than an applicant cut their top floor by one-third. He stated that could
easily be a commercial district and asked if the business meets the set back
requirements and the height restrictions, then we why should we be concerned.
Vice Mayor Hammier asked if Council Member Reid would propose deleting
the example.
Council Member Wright stated there are other ways to deal with massing
other than chopping the blocks up. He stated for those who are graphically
inclined it would seem that the building has to be chopped; however, the
guidelines simply direct a builder to treat the block correctly.
There was further Council discussion regarding massing.
Council Member Reid stated the guidelines state "In order to maintain the
rhythm and balance established by the setback of historic buildings, new
construction should be consistent with the historic pattern of building setbacks."
He stated that is contradictory to the Zoning Ordinance.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated that goes back to her point regarding the edits
that need to come forward relative to references of the building should relate to
the historic structure versus the neighborhood as a whole. She stated the edits
need to come forward so we can ensure we are providing the correct guidance.
She stated we are not only preserving the Downtown but we want it to grow and
thrive and we need to create the guidelines that allow us to do that.
Council Member Dunn stated a good part of the massing has been decided for
the BAR through our ordinances.
Council Member Reid stated the Crescent District Plan generated some
concerns over height, which was settled by developing the zones. He asked if a
similar system could be used where there is a residential use next to a proposed
building.
Dieter Meyer, Board of Architectural Review Vice Chairman, stated he will try
to review reference materials for tomorrow's public hearing to help everyone
come to better grips with massing. He stated he was in the minority of the BAR
where he felt the structures should relate to the neighborhood as a whole rather
than simply the adjacent structures.
Council Member Reid stated we need to ensure the massing and the setback
pages are consistent with our Zoning Ordinance.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 16
stated there also needs to be something in place to protect a historic structure in
a back yard.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated you could also take in to consideration the
impact on surroundirlg homeowners who might expect a historic look and feel.
d. George Mason University Verbal Update
Vice Mayor Hammier stated the study is wrapping up and the results are
expected in 3-4 weeks. She stated Jerry Coughter recommended having a pre-
briefing of the study for the Chair and Vice Chair of each governing body.
Further, she stated additional meetings have been focused on reaching out to
community and business leaders to ensure Leesburg has a competitive edge.
e. VDOT Six-Year Plan Public Hearing Update
Calvin Grow stated the public hearing will be held tomorrow night at the
Fairfax County Government Center. He stated because of cuts in Urban
Funding, all VDOT Urban Funding for Leesburg will need to be allocated to the
construction of Battlefield Parkway from Kincaid Boulevard to Route 7 until
2012. He stated this will not result in delays to the project. He stated the
South King Street widening project is now planned to start construction in the
2012 to 2014 timeframe, depending on funding. He stated the estimated
shortfall is $8 million. He stated VDOT has selected the design company of
Parsons Transportation Group to design the project to widen the Route 7/15
Bypass from four to six lanes including the Sycolin Flyover; however, they have
not been authorized to start. He stated design money was not cut for this
project, only construction funds. Further, he stated the project will be designed
together; however, once the design is complete the flyover project can move
forward separately.
Council Member Wright stated he is glad that while the bypass widening and
flyover will be designed together, they will be separated for construction. He
stated if we get the choke points out the Bypass widening can be moved further
out. Further, he suggested encouraging VDOT to focus on getting projects
shovel ready so that we can build the projects rather than waiting for all of the
funding.
Council Member Butler concurred with Council Member Wright's comments;
however, it does not seem to be reflected in the resolution passed in 2007.
Council Member Reid stated he believes the County funded a bond with
$300,000 for the Sycolin Road flyover project. He stated it would be awful if
VDOT wouldn't get started to get the flyover going. He stated the acceleration
ramp is a County project; however, staff can support it in their comments
tomorrow night. Further, he stated we have never received anything in writing
stating that VDOT is splitting with Bypass widening/Sycolin Road flyover project.
Mr. Grow stated VDOT has told him that the projects will be split.
Council Member Reid stated he would like to have that in writing. He stated
the Flyover is a stand-alone project. He stated Battlefield Parkway will open in
eight months and we will not need an at-grade intersection at Sycolin Road
anymore. He asked if tomorrow night's testimony can focus on the flyover
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 17
project. He stated tomorrow night we should ask for the acceleration lane on
Route 7 west and we should request that Sycolin Road be paved to Ashburn.
Council Member Dunn expressed concern that the Bypass widening and
Sycolin Road Flyover projects have not been separated and stated we may not
see that in writing.
Council Member Reid stated the flyover is going to need an environmental
assessment because it will impinge on the park land.
Mayor Umstattd stated Mr. Grow has always been very successful with his low
key efforts and if we try to strong arm VDOT to have everything in writing it
could backfire. She stated if they have assured Mr. Grow that the projects are
separated, then we need to go with that. She stated either way we do not have
the money to go forward.
Council Member Wright suggested prioritizing the projects and saying that we
want to work with VDOT and the money that they have.
Council Member Reid stated we need to stipulate in our testimony that we
want the flyover to go first as there is not enough money to do it in combination
with the Bypass widening.
Mr. Mason stated the Council passed a resolution requesting that VDOT build
the flyover first. He stated they have indicated that the projects will be
designed together and constructed separately.
Council Member Wright stated that is also the resolution where we requested
the acceleration lane.
Council Member Reid verified the acceleration lane is included in the County's
project list.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she is most concerned that tax payer dollars are
being allocated to a State government responsibility. She mentioned the impact
of transportation on economic development opportunities. Further, she
suggested focusing testimony on Battlefield Parkway.
There was further discussion regarding project priorities.
Council Member Reid asked the rationale for asking the NVTA for funding for
South King Street as opposed to Battlefield Parkway through the Rehau tract.
Mayor Umstattd stated the NVTA was looking for projects with a regional
impact that are ready to build.
Council Member Dunn stated we are an interstate community and Battlefield
Parkway will be our outer beltway used by all.
Council Member Reid stated at the hearing we should let VDOT know that the
Sycolin Road Flyover is more important than the Bypass widening. Further, we
should also ask for the acceleration lane on Route 7 west and the Sycolin Road
paving.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 18
f. Status Update on Loudoun Street Options
John Wells stated the group met on January 7 and plan to meet again on
January 31. He stated they will be looking at new ideas not limited to the two
parcels and will report back to Council in February.
Council Member Dunn verified both sides are open to compromise.
Council Member Reid stated he would like to have a report on the data from
the driver feedback signs at the next work session.
Council Member Butler stated he hopes that by looking at a larger picture we
do not get into something that is a much bigger deal.
Mr. Wells stated in looking at greenspace and parkland they wanted to
explore ideas of how to tie in some of the existing greenspace or parkland in the
block. He stated there is an opportunity for compromise there and they want to
continue to meet as long as there is opportunity to look beyond the site, but not
beyond the block.
2. Additions to Future Council Meetings
Council Member Reid asked for an update on our legislative agenda to be
emailed to Council.
Mr. Wells stated updates will be sent as we move along.
Council Member Wright requested an update on grant activities. He suggested
that this year's budget discussions could be done in two full days if planned out
ahead of time.
Mayor Umstattd stated her goal is that the budget meetings not go past 9: 00
p.m.
Council Member Wright stated his goal is that the budget meetings be conducted
during the business day.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she would like a discussion at the next work session
regarding BAR issues with real solutions for the appeals process.
Mr. Wells stated that could be conducted as part of tomorrow night's public
hearing. Further, he stated a BAR discussion is already planned for the following
work session and direction could be provided at that time.
Council Member Dunn suggested getting input from Mr. Wells relative to if our
budget were X million dollars what would that look like for his operation. He stated
the process of going line by line lets the Town Manager determine what he could
work with.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated similar direction is given by keeping in the range of
an equalized tax rate.
Council Member Reid asked for a discussion regarding the Heritage High School
crossing issue.
Town Council Work Session of January 12. 2009
Page 19
Council Member Wright asked if we asked the Sheriff in writing he would do this
and have received a response in writing. He stated that is not in our jurisdiction.
Mr. Wells stated we have heard that pretty directly from the Sheriff's
Department.
Council Member Wright stated he would like to have that information in writing
to share with the Board of Supervisors and follow up with the Sheriff's office that we
have the authority to provide this service outside our jurisdiction.
Council Member Reid stated he would like to revive the discussion of the three
meeting a month schedule at the next work session. He asked that staff map out
what the calendar would look like for that schedule.
Mayor Umstattd asked if the majority of Council wanted to revisit this issue.
It was the majority consensus of Council not to revisit this issue.
Council Member Dunn suggested that we add all of our shovel ready projects to
the letter for Senator Webb. He stated we need to get on the list and get some
lobbying behind us. He stated he was at the Lovettsville Planning Commission
meeting and their Chairman is a funding lobbyist who is looking at getting $5 million
to widen their streets.
Council Member Wright stated the County prepared a wish list and the Town's
intent is to back up the County's list and create our own list when we figure out the
exact process.
Council Member Reid asked that an item be placed on the agenda to discuss
hiring a lobbyist.
Mayor Umstattd stated she would not support hiring a lobbyist.
Mr. Wells stated there is not really a process to follow at this time. He stated
the County's letter was in response to a request from NACO communicated through
VACO to identify shove-ready projects. He stated our draft letter supports the
County letter and respectfully submits our list as well.
Council Member Reid stated the process will be federal infrastructure money
may go to whoever gets an earmark. He stated the County should take their
lobbyist out of Richmond and send him to DC.
Mayor Umstattd stated we have three lobbyists. Senator Warner, Senator Webb
and Congressman Wolf.
Council Member Reid stated Senator Warner and Congressman Wolf got
$38,000 in earmarks for the Route 50 traffic calming project because the Piedmont
Environmental Council hired people to go out and get the money.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated we could get more involved in the National League
of Cities in the same way that Vienna has gotten involved in VML and had a
tremendous impact.
Town Council Work Session of Januarv 12. 2009
Page 20
Council Member Dunn stated if we do not ask for the funding we will not get the
funding.
Vice Mayor Hammier suggested that Council visit Congressman Wolf on a
quarterly basis.
Council Member Dunn stated we are a first responder to DC and our
infrastructure is an evacuation road for DC. He stated we are an interstate
community and we need the money.
3. Closed Session
On a motion by Mayor Umstattd, Seconded by Council Member Wright, the
following was proposed:
MOTION
Pursuant to Section 2.2-3711(A)(1) of the Code of Virginia, I move that the Leesburg
Town Council convene in a closed meeting to discuss a personnel matter related to
the Town Attorney's evaluation
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Dunn, Hammier, Reid, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Martinez absent)
The Council convened in closed session at 10:39 p.m.
The Council reconvened in open session at 11:19 p.m.
On a motion by Mayor Umstattd, seconded by Council Member Reid, the
following was proposed:
MOTION
In accordance with Section 2.2-3712 of the Code of Virginia, I move that the Council
certify to the best of each member's knowledge, only public business matters
lawfully exempted from open meeting requirements under the Virginia Freedom of
Information Act and such public business matters as were identified in the motion by
which the closed meeting was convened were heard, discussed or considered in the
meeting by Council
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Butler, Dunn, Hammier, Reid, Wright and Mayor Umstattd
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Martinez absent)
Adjournment
On a motion by Council Member Wright, seconded by Council Member Dunn,
the meeting was adjourned at 11:20 p.m." /", /\
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