HomeMy Public PortalAbout2009_tcwsmin0427
Council Work Session
April 27, 2009
Council Chambers, 25 West Market Street, 7:30 p.m, Mayor Umstattd presiding.
Council Members Present: David Butler, Thomas Dunn, II, Katie Sheldon
Hammier, Ken Reid, Kevin Wright and Mayor Kristen Umstattd
Council Members Absent: Marty Martinez
Staff Present: Town Manager John Wells, Deputy Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Town
Attorney Jeanette Irby, Director of Public Works Tom Mason, Director of Parks and
Recreation Rich Williams, Director of Planning and Zoning Susan Berry Hill, Director
of Finance Norm Butts, Deputy Director of Planning and Zoning Brian Boucher,
Assistant Director for Recreation Kate Trask, Transportation Engineer Calvin Grow,
and Management Specialist/Deputy Clerk of Council Debi Parry
AGENDA ITEMS
1. Work Session Items for Discussion:
a. SRTC Recommendations
i. Battlefield Crosswalk at Plaza Street
Mr. Wells stated SRTC Chairman Liz Whiting could not attend this
evening's meeting, He stated Council asked staff to identify the cost of the
crosswalk at Battlefield Parkway and Plaza Street as well as the lighted
crosswalk at North King Street and Oakcrest Manor Drive,
Council Member Dunn verified this would be fully constructed with Town
funds,
Mr. Wells stated in terms of the cost, the HOA will be supporting this and
have identified the cost of the easement. He stated the Town cost of the
project is $35,000.
Council Member Dunn asked the timeline of the project.
Calvin Grow stated the project should be completed by the end of the
summer.
Council Member Dunn stated most of the use will be during the summer;
however, residents will use the crosswalks in the fall for school crossings too.
Council Member Reid stated he supports both of these projects. He
stated he would like to see the crosswalk at Battlefield Parkway and Plaza
Street completed sooner so kids can use them to get to the pool.
Council Member Butler asked if there is potential for either of these
projects to be funded with FY2009 funds.
Mr, Wells stated the projects can be funded with FY2009 funds.
Council Member Wright verified the funds will come from the fund
balance, He stated during last year's budget the talk back sign was the only
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Page 2
project approved for traffic calming and these would be additional unplanned
costs.
Mr, Wells stated he could place a motion on the consent agenda for
tomorrow night.
Council Member Wright asked that the motion not be placed on the
consent agenda,
Vice Mayor Hammier asked why the motion should not be placed on the
consent agenda.
Council Member Wright stated this is additional spending that needs to
be called out.
Council Member Dunn asked if these projects will be funded from the
SRTC budget.
Mr. Wells stated what should have been done last year and was not
done was to create a process whereby the SRTC would request funds on an
annual basis for certain projects during the budget process. He stated it was
his error, He stated the funding that will be used will come from unspent
funds from the current fiscal year.
Council Member Dunn asked if the SRTC has the necessary funds in their
budget for the current fiscal year.
Mr. Wells stated the funds that the SRTC believed they had should not
have been there based on his error in budgeting, He stated there are funds
available in this budget for the projects and there will be no impact to the
FY2010 budget.
Council Member Reid stated he just wanted to note that this
recommendation goes back to January by the SRTC.
Council Member Wright stated last year when Council adopted the
budget there was discussion about including funding for the talk back sign
program in the SRTC budget versus a blanket $60,000, He stated somehow
the change was not implemented and the SRTC thought they had extra funds
in the budget to spend.
Mr. Wells stated the FY10 budget has no allocation for the SRTC at this
point and Council can address needs as warranted throughout the year.
ii. Lighted Crosswalk at North King and Oakcrest Manor Drive
Council Member Dunn stated there are no other lighted crosswalks in
Town, He stated it seems more pedestrians do not understand the proper
laws regarding use of crosswalks. He stated this is a busy street and to put
anymore false security in the minds of the pedestrian concerns him, He
stated he has seen these used in Old Town Manassas and found that the
flashing lights do not necessarily stop the cars. Further, he stated he has not
seen this crosswalk being used as much as others in Town and stated this
may not be the best answer,
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Council Member Butler stated lighted crosswalks in general are a good
idea; however, he is concerned with spending $41,000 right now. He stated
in a year or so from now he would like to find an appropriate location to try a
lighted crosswalk as it may solve a lot of problems if it works well.
Council Member Wright echoed Council Member Dunn's comments, He
stated this is similar to other things we have done with crosswalks that tend
to create confusion about the responsibility of the pedestrian entering the
crosswalk. He stated there is an existing crosswalk at this location and he
does not see a compelling reason for spending these additional funds in terms
of a problem we are trying to solve,
Vice Mayor Hammier stated the teen center at Rust Library and the A, V,
Symington Aquatic Center are opening soon which may attract more
adolescent traffic.
Mayor Umstattd stated that is a good concern. She verified the aquatic
center will close at 8 p.m., which is before nightfall in the summer. She
asked the distance at which a driver will see the lights from the crosswalk.
Mr. Grow stated on a bright sunny day you can see the lights from
approximately 25 yards away; however, on a dark cloudy day the lights can
be seen from approximately 200 yards away.
Council Member Dunn stated he would estimate 30 feet, He stated in
Old Town Manassas there are buildings casting shadows. He stated what
might be better served is a "Pedestrian Crossing Ahead" flashing sign. He
stated he is concerned about the false sense of security as he has already
seen it with the crosswalks installed on Battlefield Parkway,
Council Member Reid stated SRTC Chairman Liz Whiting mentioned in
her letter to Council that this would be a demonstration project because there
are perhaps other parts of Town that could use this. He stated two years ago
the SRTC had a discussion of a similar situation in Kincaid Forrest, He stated
Manassas was the impetus and has worked well. He stated residents in
Exeter complained a couple of years ago that they wanted a crosswalk at Ida
Lee Drive and the response was that you have to have it at a regular street.
He stated there is some need during parades and this may be need once the
Catholic Church expands. He stated this is a legitimate expenditure and
stated perhaps staff could look at other crosswalk locations that might be a
better candidate,
Mayor Umstattd stated she is persuaded by Council Members Dunn and
Wright's position regarding creating a false sense of security. She stated she
does not want to spend $41,000 for a demonstration project when we could
go to Old Town Manassas and see how effective the lighted crosswalk is.
Council Member Reid stated the point is to see if it will work in Leesburg
or if we would want more in Leesburg.
Mayor Umstattd stated if there is one in operation already in the region
we can visit to see if it works,
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Page 4
Council Member Reid asked if the Mayor would support looking to install
a lighted crosswalk in another section of Town,
Mayor Umstattd stated the issue is whether or not it works and whether
it engenders a false sense of security. She stated she and Council Member
Wright have observed the same thing with the sign in the middle of the
crosswalk at the W&OD crossing on Dry Mill Road, She stated bicyclists do
not look and just continue on the trail ignoring the stop signs. She stated she
would like staff to research the Manassas crosswalk.
Vice Mayor Hammier asked if Loudoun County Public Schools will be
constructing a crosswalk across Route 15 at Tuscarora High School.
Mr. Grow stated they are constructing a sidewalk and installing a
pedestrian signal at Dry Hollow Road.
b. BAR Process and Issues
Brett Burk, Leesburg Planning Commission Chair, provided a briefing on the
Planning Commission/Board of Architectural Review (BAR) joint meeting on BAR
process and issues. He stated the discussion included timing of BAR review for
legislative applications for projects in the H-l and H-2, the appeal standard to
be used by the Council when hearing appeals of BAR decisions and the duration
of a Certificate of Approval/Historic District Permit issued by the BAR,
Mr. Burk stated the Planning Commission and BAR unanimously
recommended that BAR review of legislative applications be integrated
concurrently with the legislative review by the Planning Commission. He stated
regarding the appeals standard, the majority of the Planning Commission and
BAR recommended that the existing appeal standard be maintained. He stated
this was not a unanimous vote as there was one dissention. He stated that
many members would have liked to have seen some process to expand the
consideration for the appeal, but could not come up with a system for this that
did not completely subvert the BAR procedures. Further, he stated the Planning
Commission and BAR had much discussion regarding the appropriate duration
for a BAR approval before unanimously recommending an administrative time
extension for six months beyond the current two years subject to the following
conditions; (1) applicant has diligently pursued completion of the project, (2)
Zoning Administrator shall include notification for the extension to adjacent
property owners and (3) extensions shall be granted in six-month increments.
Vice Mayor Hammier asked who would determine whether the applicant is
"diligently" pursuing completion of the project.
Mr, Burk stated that would be determined by the Zoning Administrator,
Brian Boucher stated this was a suggestion to allow for an applicant who has
been trying to go through our process but something stops them. He stated
there have been cases in the past where an applicant has an approved site plan;
however, the permit expires because they cannot acquire an off-site easement,
He stated the thought was in circumstances like that the Zoning Administrator
could look at the record and grant a six-month extension. He stated this
prevents an applicant from sitting on their application for years; however, it is
also fair,
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Page 5
Mr. Burk stated on the first point "the applicant has diligently pursued
completion of the project" there was some concern that people might get
extensions without intention to pursue the project,
Mayor Umstattd asked what were the arguments against starting the clock
when all the approvals are in place.
Mr, Boucher stated if you wait till all the approvals are in place you create a
situation where an applicant applies for a site plan and staff does not have
enough time,
Council Member Wright stated one of the discussions centered on the idea of
making sure it is a real project. He offered the example of the shopping center in
front of the Fieldstone Apartments and other projects where the shopping
centers are erected all of a sudden and the plans have been approved for 20
years.
Mr. Burk stated the group also discussed the notification to adjacent property
owners quite a bit because a neighbor could complain to the Town about a
problem in the 25 month only to find that there was a six month extension
granted,
Council Member Dunn stated he agrees with item one regarding the timing of
BAR review. He stated the appeals process has always been of concern to him
and he is concerned that on the day of the vote there were only four Planning
Commission members present. He stated it is important to remember that the
BAR is operating under our guidelines and we do not have to feel like anything is
written in stone as we can have the BAR do whatever we need it to accomplish
for our needs today. He stated he would like have the BAR appeals process
more open to applicants to where they can come to Council for certain issues.
He stated he would like to look at this process a little more. He expressed
concern with the flexibility in the six-month extension for a BAR permit stating it
opens the door for someone to be upset. He stated he would rather have a solid
three year time frame than the six month extensions.
Mr. Burk stated Council Member Dunn has some of the same concerns about
the appeals process that he had personally, He stated in looking to open the
appeals process he was not able to go from opening the appeals process some
without voiding the BAR.
Council Member Dunn stated there were some changes in the one proposed
appeals process in Section 3.10,14 that takes out some of the wording and
verified that is the De Novo review which was not recommended. He stated as it
is now if the BAR defers a project for 75 days there is an automatic approval;
however, if an application is denied it is difficult to appeal.
Council Member Reid asked why this is coming back to Council in this manner
rather than staff presenting a regulation for the Planning Commission and BAR
to weigh in on. He stated now we have another step because it has to go back
to staff and a public hearing has to be scheduled.
Mr. Boucher stated the instruction from Council was that staff take various
options to the Planning Commission and the BAR in a joint meeting for
discussion and a report back to Council.
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Council Member Reid stated at the February meeting there seemed to be
general consent that the applicant should have the option to go to the BAR or
Planning Commission first; however, this recommendation is that the review
should be concurrent. He stated Council has a majority to change the appeals
process so the residents or whoever appeals has the opportunity for Council to
look at the evidence, He stated we, as the elected officials of Leesburg, should
not have to be forced to sit there and pretend we are judges. Further, he stated
the residents who were opposed to the firehouse were not allowed to present
evidence and Council had to base their ruling on whether the BAR was arbitrary
or capricious. He urged Council to support the De Novo review which is used by
other Councils in Virginia. He verified the six month extensions on the BAR
approval are not limited to just one extension, He stated this was a very good
idea that Council Member Martinez presented so an applicant is not stuck with a
set time, rather if they are pursuing their plan they can apply for an extension of
six months. He stated that is how we should proceed with this is to have the
staff advertise the ruling and move the process forward, He stated he is very
committed to the appeals standard,
Council Member Butler stated he has no interest in allowing De Novo review
which would require Council to do the BARs job. He stated in looking at history
there have been very few denials from applicants and the risk we run is that
they work with the BAR to get an approval; however, with a De Novo review it
could turn into a political decision with a worse outcome than if they had worked
with the BAR over a few meetings. He stated he supports the recommendations
of the Planning Commission and BAR.
Council Member Wright stated having had the opportunity to sit in on the joint
meeting he would like to take the opportunity to thank the BAR for taking the
initiative in advance of the meeting to come in with a consensus opinion, He
stated he supports all the recommendations of the Planning Commission and
BAR, He stated having applications reviewed concurrently would allow the
applicant to go in for a non-binding first look at the BAR level and would not do
anything to preempt the process,
Mr. Burk stated this will also help prevent "deal breakers" from coming along
later,
Council Member Wright stated he fully supports the work and
recommendations of the Planning Commission and BAR.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she too appreciates everyone's time and effort on
this review, She stated by virtue of the fact that we've had this many meetings
and this many special sessions the basic premise is that there is an issue we
need to confront, She stated something needs to change because the elected
body needs to have the final ruling when it comes to legislative decisions, She
stated Council sets the vision in this case for the downtown, which is a living,
breathing, important and evolving part that we care very much about as a top
priority on our list of initiatives and objectives. She stated she would be open
to looking to amend the appeals process or that Council handles all of the final
rulings on legislative decisions, She stated in looking at the Waterford
application we were grateful that the legislative decision that we wanted did
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Paqe 7
happen; however, we open ourselves to some risk moving forward unless we
tackle this now,
Dieter Meyer, BAR Vice Chairman, stated the concurrent review by all bodies
makes sense, He stated there is really no risk as this is precisely what a
developer ought to be doing, He stated the six month extensions on the BAR
permit also makes sense. He stated he did not see the need for any time limits
at all; however, there were arguments made that the applicant has to show that
they are diligently pursuing project completion, which is important. He stated
regarding the De Novo review versus the current standard, the public has
spoken strongly in favor of keeping the current process. He stated with the De
Novo review Council would be allowed to overrule a BAR decision even if it found
the BAR did exercise sound, reasonable discretion which is not good
government,
Mayor Umstattd stated this has been a tough issue. She stated in observing
the way Council reacts to the Planning Commission recommendations and the
BAR decisions, generally the BAR decisions are more final than commission
recommendations. She stated her observation is that most Council Members
think long and hard before voting against a Planning Commission
recommendation even though we have a right to a De Novo review of all major
Planning Commission decisions. She stated she respects the BAR's opinion on
the De Novo review process; however, she still feels Council should be the final
decision maker in that process. She stated Council Member Dunn made a good
point that if Council has a problem with the guidelines then Council ought to
amend them, as opposed to having the BAR interpret the guidelines to the best
of their ability only to have Council overturn them. She stated the Council is the
body the public relies on, the body they elect and we ought to make the final
decision,
Council Member Wright stated he would argue that Council does make the
legislative decisions, He stated in the circumstance where Council went to the
BAR to watch them review the Waterford application the overall result we
wanted to see from an economic development view was accomplished and the
BAR did a much better job in enhancing the architectural value much better than
we could have. He stated if we correct the process to allow concurrent reviews
the architecture issues will be resolved in that same chain of thought, He stated
you do not need De Novo review if you have concurrent review because Council
will make the legislative decision and allow the people who have better the
training to deal with the details of the architecture.
Council Member Dunn stated from his experience as Council liaison to the BAR
he has seen a number of decisions that were the opinions of seven people and
not the decision of the body, He stated the items that come before the BAR,
whether it is a 100,000 square foot Waterford new construction project or piece
of fascia on the back of a deck on Monroe Street, cover a wide variety of
applications. He stated the BAR is what we want it to be and it may be that the
BAR has come to a point where what it originally was has evolved into
something else or maybe we need it to evolve into something else for Leesburg
today. He stated we are moving in that direction, but we have not moved far
enough to what the BAR should have been as our historic preservation body and
we need efforts in that area, He stated getting back to the importance of our
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 8
existing historic buildings is where he would like the BAR to focus. He stated
there are a lot of opinions that come out of the BAR because you are working on
the art of the building and seven people may feel differently about what is
acceptable or not.
Council Member Reid stated he agrees with the Mayor that the Town officials
are responsible for what happens, He stated he is concerned that we are again
talking in terms of safeguards, He stated it is true we have reformed the
process for the 75 day mandate, the concurrent review and new guidelines, but
there have been cases that have come before the BAR recently where staff has
recommended denial. He stated usually the BAR will work with an applicant to
make sure they do not deny the application; however, when people from the
community come to the BAR who are concerned about an application the BAR
becomes concerned about what the residents are saying and therefore the
application is denied or approved and someone goes away unhappy, He stated
these citizens have every right to then go to their elected official to ask for a
review of the evidence. He stated we have talked about this and we need to
have the commission and staff draft a recommendation to encompass what they
have drafted for items one and three and perhaps a straw vote is needed to
direct them to hold a hearing on the De Novo review.
Council Member Butler stated his concern is something like the Waterford
Development, which was approved by the BAR; however, they could have come
forward with the attitude that this is our proposal, take it or leave it because we
will just go to Council knowing that Council would not deny this application, He
stated without the approval of the BAR it could hurt the appearance of the
downtown, He expressed concern that Council would hear appeals on fascia
board applications as well. He stated this would take up a lot of time and
potentially add a negative value to the process. Further, he stated contrary to
the law, whether a decision is arbitrary and constitutes an abuse of discretion
there are plenty of opportunities for Council to take control if necessary.
Council Member Dunn stated looking at Waterford and other projects,
approvals on the BAR do not happen hard and fast like Planning Commission
decisions, rather the deferrals happen meeting after meeting after meeting. He
stated the Waterford project took four or five meetings of deferrals and it is still
not officially completed. He stated some applicants get discouraged because the
process never seems to end. Further, he stated the resident with the fascia
board project most likely would not want to come to Council for one or two
meetings after going to the BAR,
Council Member Reid stated the residents have the right to get a proper
hearing. He stated if residents want to appeal the Waterford development and
Council has to sit here and determine of the BAR was arbitrary or capricious. He
stated we are capable of examining the guidelines. He stated it seems there is
division here, whereas there was a majority before and perhaps we should
proceed with the other recommendations and discuss the appeals process
further. He stated perhaps we can combine the arbitrary, capricious or abuse
of discretion review with an evidentiary element,
Ms, Irby stated Council would just be making more work for themselves.
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 9
Vice Mayor Hammier asked if there is a way to compartmentalize the appeals
process.
Ms, Irby stated she has thought about this quite a bit and Council needs to
make a decision whether to maintain the present standard,
Council Member Reid stated there is nothing wrong with having the Planning
Commission advertise a regulation for De Novo review, hold the hearing and
vote on the issue when it comes to Council.
Council Member Wright stated Council had done just that. He stated we had
that discussion with the public and several members public ask to maintain the
current appeals process. He stated we have discussed the issue, we have held a
public hearing, we have heard from the public, we have voted and questioned
how many times in a year do we want to hold a public hearing on the same
question,
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she does not support tabling the discussion of
appeals as we need to make a decision one way or the other as a Council and
we owe that to everyone who has been involved in this process,
Council Member Reid asked for a straw vote to determine how many Council
Members would like to move forward with the De Novo review and the other
recommendations of the BAR and Planning Commission.
Council Member Dunn asked Council's next step in this process.
Ms. Irby stated Council Member Wright is correct in that Council has already
voted on this issue, so if it is to be brought back up then the same process must
be followed starting with the initiation of a resolution the appeals process and
other two recommendations.
Mayor Umstattd suggested that each item be handled as separate items. She
stated a resolution could be started tomorrow night.
Council Member Dunn asked if he is correct that another set of public
hearings is not needed.
Ms. Irby stated the public hearings are needed, but Council has already been
though the process on the appeals issue once, She suggested that Council
move forward with the Mayor's suggestion to separate the appeals issues from
the other two recommendations, but keep in mind that Council had this
discussion approximately six months ago.
Council Member Reid stated that is why he asked for a show of hands to see if
there are still four votes for De Novo review. He stated it appears there is a
majority for De Novo Review,
Vice Mayor Hammier stated her personal preference is that the elected body
have the final say, She stated she personally learned a lot and it took that to
get to this point.
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 10
Mr. Burk thanked staff for their recommendations in this process and the BAR
for their willingness to meet with the Planning Commission,
c. Beer and Wine Policy
Rich Williams outlined the proposal to allow alcohol at designated Town
facilities and events. He stated this item came forward in the Parks and
Recreation Advisory Commission who evaluated this concept including different
practices, benefits and challenges of other jurisdictions such as the Town of
Herndon and Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority. He stated the Town of
Vienna has a policy to allow the consumption of alcohol at parks; however, they
do not like the policy and usually do not approve applications, Further, he stated
Loudoun County is also in the process implementing an alcohol consumption
policy.
Mr. Williams stated the Commission unanimously endorsed this
recommendation to Council. He stated in general the department favors allowing
alcohol in selected facilities with certain restrictions in place which could possibly
be expanded later if the program is successful. He stated the alcohol would be
limited to beer and wine and would be restricted to the lower level of the
recreation center, the tennis center and the Olde Izaak Walton Park building,
which are all supervised facilities. He stated the alcohol would be restricted to
the hours of 8 p.m. to midnight to eliminate the potential conflict of different
user groups, He stated Town staff would not provide or serve alcohol and no
recreation programs involving alcohol would be offered to avoid the Town
securing an ABC permit for any event, He stated the special events allowance
would be for something similar to a wine garden at the Flower and Garden
Festival for which the vendor would serve and secure the permit. He stated the
Town would retain the discretion to deny any application or designate additional
temporary locations or extend time limits as needed. He stated the estimated
revenue potential for this program is $15,000. Further, he stated if Council
desires to move forward staff would develop a formal Standard of Procedure
(SOP) for the Commission's approval and a Town Code amendment for Council's
approval.
Council Member Reid verified Council is not being asked to approve this
proposal tomorrow night.
Council Member Dunn stated he cannot support this proposal. He stated we
have a long standing policy against the consumption of alcohol in government
facilities and it is important to maintain that policy. He stated as much as he
appreciates staff looking to increase revenue and decrease the burden on the
taxpayers, this is one revenue source that he cannot attach his name to. He
stated the purpose of having alcohol at events is to achieve a certain level of
fun; however, the consequences outweigh the revenue. He stated there used to
be alcohol served at the First Friday events until the state stopped that practice
for various reasons. Further, he stated the role of recreation should be to
promote health, not things that would risk health,
Council Member Reid stated he attended a Passover seder held by the Beth
Chaverim Synagogue at Ida Lee two years ago and verified they could not serve
wine for Kiddush, He stated there is no real gradation here. He stated kiddush
is just a sip or two of wine and here we would allow someone holding a dance or
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 11
party to serve alcohol. He asked if there would be an additional fee charged for
this.
Mr. Williams stated the applicant would be responsible for securing the ABC
permit. He stated the Town's policy would be modeled after the Town of
Herndon's,
Council Member Reid asked if staff or police will be present to monitor the
event.
Mr. Williams stated that would depend on how the SOP is written. He stated
the model staff is using came from the Town of Herndon which has a point
system based on factors such as the type of event, number of attendees, and
time of the event to determine if security is needed,
Council Member Reid asked the Town of Herndon's experience with this policy,
Mr. Williams presented a matrix showing different jurisdictions and their
experience with the policy. He stated the Town of Herndon has had only one
negative challenge in the past seven years,
Council Member Reid stated his concern, in addition to Council Member
Dunn's comments, is that a Town facility would be competing with private
venues such as Lightfoot, Tuscarora Mill, Carradoc Hall and future hotels that
may come to Leesburg, He stated the Ida Lee prices will be less and asked if
there was a disincentive to using Ida Lee,
Mr, Williams stated this would provide a low cost option for individuals who
cannot afford other options; however, there will always be people who may not
want to hold their reception at a recreation center,
Council Member Reid stated the lower level of the Ida Lee Recreation Center
is a large room and could be in direct competition with private venues. He
stated one incident in seven years in Herndon is enough to raise concern.
Further, he asked what was driving this policy change.
Mr. Williams stated this discussion came up at a Parks and Recreation
Commission meeting, He stated Council Member Martinez who was in
attendance raised the issue and the rest of the Commission felt it was something
that they would want to look into.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated we now have a tennis complex and the tennis
community is accustomed to having various mixers at the former Sport and
Health Club. She stated this is a legitimate request from the tennis community.
Mr, Williams stated based on the staff recommendation the mixer would have
to operate in a different format. He stated currently the Town organizes the
mixers and charges a fee for attendance. He stated the Town could not continue
to organize the mixers as that would require that the Town acquire an ABC
permit. He stated the model of the mixer would need to change and perhaps a
group of players could rent the courts to hold their mixer,
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 12
Council Member Reid stated he appreciates Council Member Martinez or any
other Council member bringing up initiatives such as this; however, he has
grave concerns,
Council Member Butler stated he does not have grave concerns with this and
believes this is a good idea, He stated there are many fund raisers held at which
alcohol and snacks served. He stated his only concern is that 8 p.m. may be
late for many functions and suggested moving the time to 4 p.m, or 6 p.m. on
the weekends to accommodate fund raisers and similar functions. He stated 8
p,m. may be late for many wedding receptions. Further, he stated the current
proposal is reasonable.
Council Member Wright stated 8 p.m. does seem late for respectable events
or the average wedding reception, He stated the market targeted in the
beginning of the report would fall within 6 p.m, or 7 p.m. range and as you go
into 8 p.m, or later you find a narrower group of uses that we may not be after.
He stated he would tend to argue, that the rental cost should increase; however,
we have heard two "no"s and one "yes" on this proposal and he is at a "maybe"
to a "no". He stated the revenue projection is $15,000 with the reasonable
restrictions presented; however, based on those restrictions the potential
revenue may be lower to the point that it might not make sense to continue. He
stated years ago Leesburg Renaissance wanted to do beer gardens, which was
handled by a legislative exception, He stated he would be more comfortable
with that example for our special events versus expanding the market, He
stated Council Member Reid raised the issue of competition with the hotels and
such and if it seems we do not have majority Council support he would not wish
to use Councilor staff time to pursue the issue further.
Mayor Umstattd stated Council Member Wright raised some good points. She
stated there are two main groups she can think of that would wish to provide
beer or wine; wedding receptions which tend to take place earlier in the day,
and banquets. She stated this is interesting because some Town events like the
Business Appreciation Awards have wine available; however, it is held on private
property and the taxpayers do not pay for the wine. She stated she is
concerned with the liability issue, She asked if someone becomes intoxicated at
the Business Appreciation Awards, which is a Town event held on private
property, and hits another car would the Town be any more or less liable than if
a wedding reception was held at Ida Lee and a guest did the same thing.
Mr. Williams stated his understanding is that the person or group that holds
the ABC permit is responsible for the proper disbursement of the alcohol.
Jeanette Irby verified that the first person to be sued would be the person
who holds the permit,
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she supports this policy and effort based on the
recommendation of the Commission. She stated she read a letter to the editor
published in a local paper in response to the County's discussion of this topic,
She stated the person made two good points, one is that beer and wine are an
important part of our local agricultural community and second that if it is the
role of parks and recreation to promote a healthy life style then we should have
healthier choices in the vending machines rather than soda. She stated she
believes that we are encouraging responsibility as most, if not all citizens are
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Paqe 13
responsible. She stated she has lived oversees enough to see this strange
dichotomy of cultures where society is more accepting and children are more
exposed to responsible drinking and have a much more responsible approach to
their college years and such verses this type of culture where we have put a
taboo on drinking. She stated she supports a time change to something more
reasonable and promoting local wine from Loudoun County.
Council Member Dunn stated another example is where we have ribbon
cuttings and the establishment may serve alcoholic beverages, He stated the
point on the wine or beer versus soda is that he has not seen too many
accidents caused by soda, He asked Mr. Williams to tell Council what he had
shared with him about another community considering this policy,
Mr, Williams stated that was with Loudoun County. He stated they have not
formally introduced this policy at this point; however, when word got out that
this policy was being considered specifically for Franklin Park Art Center, a lot of
other facilities within the Loudoun County Parks and Recreation Department
came forward and wanted to be part of this policy,
Council Member Dunn expressed concern that once Council allows this then
there is nothing to stop us to consider any other establishments or any other
park or facility we have in Town.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated we have a very designated and strict policy. She
stated hypothetically if we had a government owned performing arts center, it
would be customary for wine and beer to be served during intermission. She
stated this would be an example of an appropriate setting versus an
inappropriate setting such as all of the parks.
Council Member Dunn stated his point is that we could get requests to allow
this at other venues and the policy could expand,
Council Member Wright stated he would not include Olde Izaak Walton Park in
this program due to the lighting and parking situation. He stated from what
Council Member Dunn was discussing with expansion, he could see people
requesting a special permission to allow beer and alcohol for a rental of the
special event field at Ida Lee,
Council Member Butler stated Olde Izaak Walton Park is potentially a good
site for types of entertainment that could have a vendor during intermissions;
however, he does understand Council Member Wright's concerns. He stated
besides moving the start time earlier, it may be wise to also move the end time
earlier he stated as Council Member Wright explained the alcohol consumed
between 10 p,m, and midnight might not be for the types of reasons potentially
as earlier consumption would be.
Mayor Umstattd stated that is a very good point to cut off the alcohol at nine.
Council Member Wright stated Council Member Reid mentioned 11 p.m. He
stated the event could continue until later; however, many times when you
attend catered events you see the alcohol moved out of the room at 10 p.m, or
11 p,m.
Town Council Work Session of Aoril 27. 2009
Page 14
Council Member Reid asked if any other Council Members are concerned with
the impact on the restaurants and hotels if Ida Lee goes into this business,
Mayor Umstattd stated she used to argue that Ida Lee should not have a
weight room because that was publically financed competition with the private
gyms. She stated we are already there, She stated it is competition, but it is
lower cost competition and we are already competing by allowing weddings and
events at Ida Lee,
Council Member Reid asked if there are a large number of weddings held at
Ida Lee,
Mr. Williams stated during the wedding season there will be three or four
weddings a month at Ida Lee.
Council Member Dunn asked if the purpose of this policy is more of a revenue
source or a convenience factor,
Mayor Umstattd stated Council Member Martinez and the Parks and
Recreation Commission were responding to feedback from individuals who would
like to hold their wedding reception at Ida Lee; however, they are not permitted
to have a champagne toast. She stated she does not believe this is anything
other than customer demand.
Council Member Dunn stated as we have already mentioned most wedding
receptions would not be held during the hours staff has asked Council to
consider. He stated if this is for wedding receptions then we are not meeting
that need with this proposal.
Mr. Williams stated the closing time for the recreation center is what was
driving the 8 p.m. start. He stated on Saturday nights Ida Lee closes at 8 p,m.
and this would allow staff to keep all of the conflicting groups away from each
other. He stated staff can look at changing the timeframe while drafting the
SOP for the Commission's approval.
Council Member Reid asked if alcohol would be prohibited if children are
present,
Mr, Williams stated that would not be part of this policy as children may be
part of a wedding party,
Council Member Reid stated he is thinking more of Bar Mitzvahs.
Mr. Williams stated staff would not look to restrict that either. He stated staff
would obviously have a concern if the individual who obtained the ABC license
was serving alcohol to minors,
Mr. Wells stated staff will draft SOPs based on tonight's conversation for
approval by the Parks and Recreation Commission and prepare an ordinance
amendment for Council's approval.
d. Form Based Code
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 15
Susan Berry Hill stated this process began over a year ago when a consultant
was hired to develop a draft code, She stated there were several drafts
produced before review by the steering committee. She stated at that time the
steering committee decided to run a pro-forma on the concept plan for one of
these sites and the steering committee was very fortunate to have Ted Kalriess
do this for us. She stated the pro-forma was very enlightening in how the code
would be viewed from a financial perspective and outlined some of the key
takeaways with regards to structured parking.
Council Member Wright stated one of the key takeaways was looking at the
size of the blocks, how to orient them, the logistics of wrapping the parking
structure all the way around and the fact that there is rock and water prohibiting
the structure from going low which causes the structured parking to be very
expensive. He stated the concern in doing this was to ensure that whatever
was adopted would encourage people to build and not cause construction to
freeze,
Ms, Berry Hill stated one of the big costs was infrastructure associated with
the street system and utility relocation.
Mayor Umstattd asked if the urban street grid causes a problem for utility
relocation,
Ms. Berry Hill stated it does because the utilities need to go where they best
fit and if you have more street to work around then that can cause an increase
in the distance for relocation.
Council Member Wright stated the bigger challenge is the setbacks. He stated
moving the structures closer to the street has narrowed the area in which to
have the utility lines.
Ms. Berry Hill stated the steering committee has been looking through the
code again to evaluate "showstoppers", concerns and things they can live with.
She stated the committee will meet again tomorrow morning at 8:00 a,m, to
prepare for the report to Council and the Planning Commission on May 20. She
outlined four of the main code issues including, application of the district and
whether this would be a mandatory or overlay district or a text amendment that
developers would be required to zone to. She stated the committee has
recommended the mandatory district.
Council Member Wright stated the other problem with a text only district is
that it defeats the purpose. He stated this is a by-right encouragement where
we get the tighter restrictions and requirements in the form based code and in
exchange if they meet all of the criteria they can build. He stated the idea of
requiring a developer to rezone into this defeats the purpose,
Ms. Berry Hill stated the next code issue discussed was non-conforming
properties and the "trigger" at which compliance for expanding the use of the
property which is set right now at 10 percent of the assessed value. She stated
the third issue is suburban vs. more urban standards while maintaining our
small town feel. She stated the final issue is regulating maps, particularly the
street grid. She stated one of the takeaways from doing the test cases and pro
forma is that the grid may be too extensive and the committee will be looking
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 16
for ways to perhaps simplify this or maintain the grid to allow for the flow of
traffic through the area. Further, she outlined several implementation issues
including catalytic projects to encourage redevelopment, financing for
infrastructure and how that would occur, changes to other ordinances and how
the DCSM would be applied, staffing and process preparation for working with
the form based code and area of applicability including the Crescent District and
the possibility of an expanded area.
Council Member Wright stated overall the consensus of the committee is that
the size of the district is the size of the district, He stated the challenge is we
continue to worry because of how much detail is in the form based code and
whether we are painting too broad of a brush and focusing on too broad of an
area, He stated the only other alternate position is that it might be phased to
expand out from the Crescent District, He stated it would not be the consensus
to retract the area without a plan to expand out.
Ms, Berry Hill stated the committee feels it is a good time for a report to the
Town Council and the Planning Commission, She stated a joint workshop has
been scheduled for May 20 at Ida Lee Recreation Center, She stated the
purpose of the workshop is to determine if the process is ready to move from
the committee to the Planning Commission or if there is further work to be done,
Council Member Dunn stated form based code is what we want it to be. He
stated there are concepts and we can adopt that form to meet our needs here in
Leesburg. He stated we do not have to fit our Town to a book, He stated to
say "we just cannot do it" is saying "we just do not choose to do it", He stated
we have limited ourselves and our own vision, He suggested that Council
consider expanding the way our downtown looks further out, which has been our
goal. He stated he would like to see three separate zones of form based code
that uses the mandatory, overlay and text-only options. He stated the Crescent
District would be Zone One and would be mandatory, Zone Two would be from
the Crescent District to the bypass and Zone Three is outside the bypass to the
Town limits. He stated we have different development areas; however, it is a
shame that the way we want our Town to look is at mercy of the developers
right now and most of our development is outside the bypass not inside the
Crescent District. He stated we will wait years to see where we can even
implement the form based code in its purest and most detailed levels if we limit
it to the Crescent District because we are going to be waiting for redevelopment.
He stated there is some development from the Crescent District to the bypass,
but we are missing those opportunities daily. He stated our greatest
development is outside the bypass. Further, he stated this is why he would like
to see the area expanded to include a "form based light" version, which would
not be nearly as detailed.
Council Member Wright stated that is one of the things staff has been looking
at and Council Member Dunn is on the right track. He stated he likes the idea of
the different zones. He stated staff has already started to take elements of the
form based code to apply to the Zoning Ordinance to start to accomplish the
"form based light".
Council Member Dunn stated he looks at the Market Square at Potomac
Station development we could have required the developer to move the same
square footage up to the sidewalk and create a grid network within it, He stated
Town Council Work Session of Aoril 27. 2009
Page 17
we are currently zoning to too much parking rather than creating more of a
walkable environment, He stated Council Member Wright said maybe the area is
too broad; however, maybe the code is too broad, He stated he does not want
Council to get so focused on this because as it is we are looking at years and
years before we ever see the results in the Crescent District.
Council Member Wright summarized Council Member Dunn's comments to ask
if there is a way to simplify what we are trying to accomplish in form based code
to make it effective sooner as opposed to going so into the minutia of it that we
never get anything,
Council Member Dunn stated maybe we should proceed from the outside in as
opposed to starting from the core. He stated we could have had the Market
Square development look as we wanted it too, but we did not have the means
for it except under form based code, He stated we do not have to use such a
broad brush with this because there is nothing to stop us from dictating the form
to various lots.
Council Member Reid stated form based code has been adopted in Arlington
and asked what other counties or towns in Virginia have adopted this.
Ms. Berry Hill stated she would have to report back as she does not know all
of the places that utilize a form based code,
Council Member Reid asked if it would be advisable to use the form based
code adopted in other parts of the state rather than reinventing the wheel here
for Leesburg. He stated we could look at what other jurisdictions have done to
see if it would apply here.
Ms. Berry Hill stated we have our draft code pretty well adapted to what we
are trying to achieve in Leesburg,
Council Member Reid stated he would like to see the draft code. He stated
asked if there was cooperation from Virginia Village and McDonald's on the test
cases. He asked if Virginia Village is interested in redeveloping.
Ms. Berry Hill acknowledged she would provide a copy of the draft code. She
stated Brian Ours of Virginia Village is serving on the steering committee and
seemed to be watching with interest.
Council Member Wright stated the test cases were selected as one large
parcel area and several small parcel areas. He stated they were not selected
because of anyone's particular interest, but rather just to show what could or
could not be done. He stated Mr. Ours did not ask us to select his property;
rather his property happened to be a large parcel with roads going through it.
Council Member Reid stated he has spoken with private real estate people
who have told him that Mr, Ours in not interested in doing anything for that
property.
Ms, Berry Hill stated she does not know; however, he seems to have watched
with interest. She .stated there has been a concept created to show how the
site might be redeveloped arid what the pro forma results were from the testing,
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 18
Council Member Reid asked if Ms. Berry Hill is indicating that the form based
code is not applicable to the H-2 District at all or just part of the H-2 Corridor,
Ms. Berry Hill stated there is overlap with the H-2, She stated there is part of
East Market Street which is included inside the bypass and in the form based
code study area.
Council Member Reid asked if it is part of the smaller area that has been
adopted for the code.
Ms, Berry Hill stated it could be.
Council Member Reid asked where the small area is located.
Ms, Berry Hill stated the area that is east of Plaza Street is covered by the H-
2 Corridor as is the East Market Street area outside the Crescent District.
Council Member Reid stated when the Crescent District Master Plan was first
adopted he was excited. He stated the form based code was represented to him
as something that could obviate the need for special exceptions and verified that
is still the case. He stated I've learned a lot about real estate since that time
and I think developers in this area are going to be more attracted to virgin land
outside of Leesburg or maybe some parcels in Leesburg to do this kind of
redevelopment, He stated he does not think we will see the fruition of this for
many, many years because it is not going to be economically viable unless we
have shopping center owners come forward asking for their property to be
redeveloped with streets running through. He stated so far, at least with the
case of the Waterford project, we gave them a pass on one of the streets in the
grid because it was not doable for their project. He stated he does not know
how much money or time this is costing, but he is concerned putting another
layer of regulation on this could discourage that type of development. He stated
we all want to see something done in this area, but we are competing against
large land owners in Ashburn, Sterling and some parts of Leesburg. He stated
it is a lot easier to build the Lansdowne type centers from scratch than it is to
redevelop. Further, he stated as much as he would like to get the BAR out of
the H-2, he does not know if property owners will step up to do this and asked
how much staff time and resources we should be putting into a regulation like
this,
Council Member Butler stated the committee has done a great job and he
supports the entire study area as it is the right size and the right location. He
stated there may be some issues with the grid network, but he feels the
developers will find the form based code easier to work with than our current set
of zoning ordinances. He stated in that respect he believes it will encourage
redevelopment; however, he does not believe it will happen quickly as this is a
50 year plan. He stated it is incumbent upon Council to put this kind of plan in
and envision what the Town will look like in that long time frame.
Council Member Reid stated he thought the Crescent District was a 20 year
plan. .
Town Council Work Session of Aoril 27. 2009
Paqe 19
Council Member Dunn stated he believes it was originally a 15 year plan
which was amended.
Council Member Wright stated he believes the adopted Crescent District
Master Plan states it will be implemented overtime and has a 20 year horizon.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she appreciates everyone's hard work, She
stated she supports the direction and has found this discussion to be very
helpful in terms of key takeaways, She stated she does not feel this adds
regulation, rather it facilities communication in the development community and
becomes a win-win because this type of improvement has been statistically
proven to raise the economic value of the actual structure. She stated her only
regret in looking backward is that we did not start this process sooner as this
would have been of tremendous value, not only in the example Council Member
Dunn mentioned, but the entire Plaza Street corridor when Federal Reality was
looking at redeveloping that area. She stated she is optimistic about the form
based code and she believes we will see tremendous opportunities downtown
sooner rather than later.
Mayor Umstattd stated this has a lot of potential and some in the
development community are very excited about this because they will now know
what the rules are. She stated at some point she would like to get a sense of
the extent to which the Town will need to invest in infrastructure and the extent
to which our taxpayers or the private sector will be asked to contribute. She
stated this does have tremendous potential and thanked Ms, Berry Hill, Council
Member Wright and the members of the committee for their efforts on the form
based code,
e. SW Connector Trail Project Update
Mr, Dentler stated this recommendation came out of the citizen's committee
Council appointed back in 2006 to address trail access in the southeast and
southwest quadrants and gave a brief history of the project. He stated the plans
are under design and the review process has started. He stated the project will
be constructed in four phases and is scheduled to begin in summer 2010, He
stated staff is currently beginning to meet with the eight property owners along
the trail regarding easements. Further, he stated the project involves
coordination with VDOT, FEMA and the NVRPA,
Council Member Dunn asked which four property owners have been
contacted,
Mr. Dentler stated he did not know which four had been contacted, He
stated all eight property owners have received letters.
Council Member Dunn stated this is a big project, a lot of money is being
spent and the ultimate goal is to meet the request of the residents in the
southwest for a connection to the trail system. He stated during the budget
process he asked what the cost would be to consider the original plan from
1994, He stated that plan would allow for people to connect to the trail system
faster, for less money and it would take about two years to construct. He asked
if different property owners are being contacted now, or if some of them are the
same owners impacted about the original option,
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Paqe 20
Mr. Dentler stated the connection Council Member Dunn is referring to is at
the end of Chancellor Street and outlined this alignment. He stated in that case
there were two main property owners impacted.
Council Member Dunn stated if there is a way to expedite the process to get
people to the trail for less money it might satisfy the residents, He asked who
the eight property owners are for the current proposed alignment.
Mayor Umstattd stated we probably should not give names publically because
they may like their privacy, She asked that Council Member Dunn speak to Mr,
Dentler offline.
Council Member Dunn stated the older alignment would alleviate the need to
cut down the trees on Lee Avenue as well.
Council Member Reid stated he did not expect this to come up on the agenda
tonight; however, he mentioned during the CIP discussion that he hopes to cut
the cost of the trail so we can accelerate the project, He stated he and Council
Member Butler have spoken in detail about this. He stated we could save money
by constructing the Lee Avenue Trail as a second phase as there is already
pavement there on Lee that could be used for bikers and walkers and estimated
the savings at $2 million, He stated the other thing we can do is less expensive
bridging through the wetlands to cut back on expenses. He stated we could also
have a packed trail versus a hard-surface trail during the interim to save money
and he hopes staff will look to get some of the right-of-way dedicated for the
trail. He stated he is aware that the original option under Dry Mill Road could be
cheaper, but it does not seem this is the way Council wishes to go. Further, he
urged Council to look at less expensive options stating we do not need a
platinum trail right away.
Council Member Butler stated one of the things he spoke with Council Member
Reid about is the possibility of talking to staff about the cost .per segment and
priority and then allow staff to come back with potential options to cut some of
the cost, He stated he saw a flyer distributed in the Chancellor Street area
because one resident is not interested in a trail at the end of Chancellor Street
whereas others on that street support the trail. He stated he has no desire to
fight the 1998 fight again,
Council Member Wright stated he appreciates that we are moving forward on
design and getting this trail completed. He encouraged staff to look for creative
alternatives for engineering or cost saving measures, He stated he would
caution Council to keep the current alignment of the trail as changing the
alignment or scope could waste all of the design funds we have spent. He
stated it would not necessary expedite the process unless we run into significant
land acquisition issues. Further he asked Council to keep the promise we made
to residents to deliver on this trail in the CIP.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated she appreciates everyone's compromise and that
we are getting to a point of getting this trail built.
Council Member Reid asked if VDOT has approved extending the trail over the
bypass,
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 21
Mr. Dentler stated this has not been officially approved; however, VDOT has
been working with staff on the alignment and we do have preliminary approval.
Council Member Reid asked if VDOT is requiring the bridge be long enough to
accommodate six or eight lanes on the bypass.
Mr, Dentler stated they have spoken about the expansion of the bypass;
however, he does not know how many lanes were discussed.
Council Member Reid stated that was the issue with the Sycolin Flyover,
Council Member Butler stated he has spoken with VDOT about the expansion
of the bypass to six lanes. He stated the two lanes would be constructed inward
and would not require any extension,
Council Member Dunn stated over the next two years $2 million will be spent
on the trail and during that time the same $2 million could cover the design and
construction of the 1999 plan. He stated his goal is to speed up the process to
get the trail to the people and keep the cost down.
Council Member Reid stated the way to do it is through doing this in phases.
He stated there are ways to save money through a packed trail and less
expensive bridges through the wetlands.
Mayor Umstattd stated she concurs with Council Members Butler, Reid, Wright
and Vice Mayor Hammier that Council should not fight the old fight again,
f. FY 2010 Adopted Budget/CIP Objectives
Mr. Wells stated at the last meeting Council Member Reid suggested a
number of objectives for Council to consider. He stated prior to that discussion
it was also suggested that staff provide a snapshot of what is already on
Council's plate. He provided a chart in six areas of priority including economic
development and downtown improvements, public safety, capital improvement
program, operations and financial management~ land development process
improvements and legal, which is things happening to us that require a
significant investment of time. He stated many of the things we talk about fit
into these Council priority areas and reflect the direction provided early in the
budget process,
Council Member Wright stated in the budget document we did not have the
clear Council initiative and goals page done and this gets us close to that page,
He stated under public safety the implementation of the speed-watch program
should be called out. He stated under operations and financial management the
bullet referring to analyzing cost effectiveness of current service delivery
methods came from two different discussions during the budget process, He
stated one discussion was the cost effectiveness of current delivery methods and
the other was identify new efficiencies and focus areas where there may be
services we do not need to do or need to do differently. He stated the other
item that was not captured was the consolidated communications program and
trying not to be as repetitive in the manners in which we communicate. Further,
he commented on the process of refining the capital improvement program and
the project timing expectations.
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 22
Council Member Butler stated the only other initiative he would like to add is
for the Utility Department to examine what we are going to do to use the excess
capacity in water and sewer.
Council Member Reid stated it seems no one is interested in his objectives as
they have been handed out twice, although Mr. Wells has included some in this
list. He stated he would like the Balch Library to move forward with
establishing an endowment and to talk with the Loudoun Museum, He stated
the museum is in need of staff and will not be able to operate this year so that
might be a good marriage, He stated many of his initiatives are for FYl0 so that
staff can report back for the FY11 budget. He stated the utility staff should be
actively looking at what they are doing with the new capacity, He stated he
would like to have Council's input on this as many of his objectives are from the
budget discussions, for instance Council Member Wright talked about an
objective to reduce some of the fuel costs. He stated he is concerned about the
use of Town vehicles and that some have personal stickers on them. He stated
the Parks and Recreation Department is almost fully sufficient and while an
enterprise fund may not be the way to go, they should provide a report before
the next budget on when they can be fully independent. He stated there are
other items dealing with the Town Manager and Finance that he worked on with
Mr. Wells including the capital asset replacement fund. He stated staffing levels
need to be examined in the Planning and Zoning Department based on the
workload as he believes special exception and rezoning applications have
decreased, Further, he stated he would like to see a significant effort to fund
tree reforestation.
Council Member Wright stated there is a significant portion of our parks and
recreation program that is not fee or services generated such as open space and
he would not want to charge for the use of the open space, He stated the
recreation portion does a good job of getting close to breaking even, but when
you start to talk about the overall Parks and Recreations Department being
revenue neutral you start to have unintended consequences,
Council Member Reid stated he thought there was some interest from the rest
of ' Council. He stated his items are what he heard from the discussion,
Council Member Dunn stated under the operations section he would like to
add certain procedures we have within Council. He suggested adding a
downtown improvement zone in additional to a historic preservation plan. He
stated he was glad that Mr, Wells mentioned our Planning Commission being
more proactive as they are our planning body for the Town of Leesburg and an
item will be brought up tomorrow night that is a Council initiated that he feels
should be initiated by staff and presented to the Planning Commission first.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated under public safety we discussed increasing
public/private partnerships for programs such as R,O.C.K, She stated she would
like a discussion on where there might be specific objectives that are at the
commission level and to make sure we are not missing anything, She stated
specifically the EDC map with destination retail made her think of availability
fees and extra water capacity that could be used to create incentives to attract
more restaurants, She asked that PEG programming be added under operations
and financial management saying the commission who is working on this should
know that Council is fully supportive, She suggested adding the form based
Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009
Page 23
code under land development process improvements. Further, she suggested
adding the fee study.
Mr. Wells stated Council will look at the fees Town-wide. He stated we will
take each issue and look at the service provided and make a policy decision on
whether there should be fully or partially financially recovered. He stated the
purpose of the fee study is to identify the cost for the services and then there is
a judgment as to whether it is user based or if there is a public benefit.
Vice Mayor Hammier stated Council had a couple of discussions on how we
are describing the Balch Library as an amenity to citizens and increasing the
ability for that asset to have more value to more residents, She stated another
related item would be to thank individuals from out-of-Town for coming to the
Town to use our library or parks and asking if they would be willing to contribute
to a fund where we give all of the donations back to the R.O.C.K, program or
something to give back to the community and offset the tax implications for
some of these programs.
2. Additions to Future Council Meeting.s
Council Member Butler stated he has three items for the Council rules including
separating the information and action items on the agenda, setting a timer for
Council Member comments and a process that before an item is added to the agenda
there should be three Council Members agreeing. He stated he understands there
are a couple of individuals interested in entertainment businesses in our 1-1 district
and asked that staff come back with a potential code amendment.
Council Member Wright stated discussion of the Council rules of order is a
good discussion to have. He stated the reason we moved this to a resolution change
is so we could look at the process at the end of the fiscal year,
Council Member Reid stated he would like to keep the watershed grant item
on the consent agenda for tomorrow. He stated he spoke with Dr. Neely Law who
agreed that Council could add the "Center for Watershed Protection" to the title after
the PEe. He stated the $200,000 is not just for the PEC, it is also for the Center for
Watershed Protection which will actually do most of the work, He stated he would
like to keep this on consent unless Council wants to get into the policy implication of
choosing Freedom Park as the demonstration project as there are other higher
priorities.
It was the consensus of Council to move forward with this change.
Council Member Dunn asked for discussion of the timing of bringing items up
for discussion at a future meeting. He stated it seems awkward that this happens
only at work sessions because if an item does not come up till the regular meeting
then it takes almost a month to get the item on the work session agenda.
Mayor Umstattd stated it seems some Council Members feel that for an item
to be added to the agenda that at least three members must be in agreement.
Council Member Dunn stated he does not agree with that.
Council Member Butler stated it is being brought up only for discussion.
Town Council Work Session of Aoril 27. 2009
Page 24
Council Member Reid stated he would also like discussion of what staff adds
to the agenda as it might be nice to get more notice on some items,
Adjournment
On a motion by Council Member Wright, seconded by Council Member
Hammier, the meeting was adjourned at 10:25 p.m. '1
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