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HomeMy Public PortalAbout2009_tcwsmin0427 Council Work Session April 27, 2009 Council Chambers, 25 West Market Street, 7:30 p.m, Mayor Umstattd presiding. Council Members Present: David Butler, Thomas Dunn, II, Katie Sheldon Hammier, Ken Reid, Kevin Wright and Mayor Kristen Umstattd Council Members Absent: Marty Martinez Staff Present: Town Manager John Wells, Deputy Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Town Attorney Jeanette Irby, Director of Public Works Tom Mason, Director of Parks and Recreation Rich Williams, Director of Planning and Zoning Susan Berry Hill, Director of Finance Norm Butts, Deputy Director of Planning and Zoning Brian Boucher, Assistant Director for Recreation Kate Trask, Transportation Engineer Calvin Grow, and Management Specialist/Deputy Clerk of Council Debi Parry AGENDA ITEMS 1. Work Session Items for Discussion: a. SRTC Recommendations i. Battlefield Crosswalk at Plaza Street Mr. Wells stated SRTC Chairman Liz Whiting could not attend this evening's meeting, He stated Council asked staff to identify the cost of the crosswalk at Battlefield Parkway and Plaza Street as well as the lighted crosswalk at North King Street and Oakcrest Manor Drive, Council Member Dunn verified this would be fully constructed with Town funds, Mr. Wells stated in terms of the cost, the HOA will be supporting this and have identified the cost of the easement. He stated the Town cost of the project is $35,000. Council Member Dunn asked the timeline of the project. Calvin Grow stated the project should be completed by the end of the summer. Council Member Dunn stated most of the use will be during the summer; however, residents will use the crosswalks in the fall for school crossings too. Council Member Reid stated he supports both of these projects. He stated he would like to see the crosswalk at Battlefield Parkway and Plaza Street completed sooner so kids can use them to get to the pool. Council Member Butler asked if there is potential for either of these projects to be funded with FY2009 funds. Mr, Wells stated the projects can be funded with FY2009 funds. Council Member Wright verified the funds will come from the fund balance, He stated during last year's budget the talk back sign was the only Town Council Work Session of Aoril 27. 2009 Page 2 project approved for traffic calming and these would be additional unplanned costs. Mr, Wells stated he could place a motion on the consent agenda for tomorrow night. Council Member Wright asked that the motion not be placed on the consent agenda, Vice Mayor Hammier asked why the motion should not be placed on the consent agenda. Council Member Wright stated this is additional spending that needs to be called out. Council Member Dunn asked if these projects will be funded from the SRTC budget. Mr. Wells stated what should have been done last year and was not done was to create a process whereby the SRTC would request funds on an annual basis for certain projects during the budget process. He stated it was his error, He stated the funding that will be used will come from unspent funds from the current fiscal year. Council Member Dunn asked if the SRTC has the necessary funds in their budget for the current fiscal year. Mr. Wells stated the funds that the SRTC believed they had should not have been there based on his error in budgeting, He stated there are funds available in this budget for the projects and there will be no impact to the FY2010 budget. Council Member Reid stated he just wanted to note that this recommendation goes back to January by the SRTC. Council Member Wright stated last year when Council adopted the budget there was discussion about including funding for the talk back sign program in the SRTC budget versus a blanket $60,000, He stated somehow the change was not implemented and the SRTC thought they had extra funds in the budget to spend. Mr. Wells stated the FY10 budget has no allocation for the SRTC at this point and Council can address needs as warranted throughout the year. ii. Lighted Crosswalk at North King and Oakcrest Manor Drive Council Member Dunn stated there are no other lighted crosswalks in Town, He stated it seems more pedestrians do not understand the proper laws regarding use of crosswalks. He stated this is a busy street and to put anymore false security in the minds of the pedestrian concerns him, He stated he has seen these used in Old Town Manassas and found that the flashing lights do not necessarily stop the cars. Further, he stated he has not seen this crosswalk being used as much as others in Town and stated this may not be the best answer, Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Paqe 3 Council Member Butler stated lighted crosswalks in general are a good idea; however, he is concerned with spending $41,000 right now. He stated in a year or so from now he would like to find an appropriate location to try a lighted crosswalk as it may solve a lot of problems if it works well. Council Member Wright echoed Council Member Dunn's comments, He stated this is similar to other things we have done with crosswalks that tend to create confusion about the responsibility of the pedestrian entering the crosswalk. He stated there is an existing crosswalk at this location and he does not see a compelling reason for spending these additional funds in terms of a problem we are trying to solve, Vice Mayor Hammier stated the teen center at Rust Library and the A, V, Symington Aquatic Center are opening soon which may attract more adolescent traffic. Mayor Umstattd stated that is a good concern. She verified the aquatic center will close at 8 p.m., which is before nightfall in the summer. She asked the distance at which a driver will see the lights from the crosswalk. Mr. Grow stated on a bright sunny day you can see the lights from approximately 25 yards away; however, on a dark cloudy day the lights can be seen from approximately 200 yards away. Council Member Dunn stated he would estimate 30 feet, He stated in Old Town Manassas there are buildings casting shadows. He stated what might be better served is a "Pedestrian Crossing Ahead" flashing sign. He stated he is concerned about the false sense of security as he has already seen it with the crosswalks installed on Battlefield Parkway, Council Member Reid stated SRTC Chairman Liz Whiting mentioned in her letter to Council that this would be a demonstration project because there are perhaps other parts of Town that could use this. He stated two years ago the SRTC had a discussion of a similar situation in Kincaid Forrest, He stated Manassas was the impetus and has worked well. He stated residents in Exeter complained a couple of years ago that they wanted a crosswalk at Ida Lee Drive and the response was that you have to have it at a regular street. He stated there is some need during parades and this may be need once the Catholic Church expands. He stated this is a legitimate expenditure and stated perhaps staff could look at other crosswalk locations that might be a better candidate, Mayor Umstattd stated she is persuaded by Council Members Dunn and Wright's position regarding creating a false sense of security. She stated she does not want to spend $41,000 for a demonstration project when we could go to Old Town Manassas and see how effective the lighted crosswalk is. Council Member Reid stated the point is to see if it will work in Leesburg or if we would want more in Leesburg. Mayor Umstattd stated if there is one in operation already in the region we can visit to see if it works, Town Council Work Session of April 27, 2009 Page 4 Council Member Reid asked if the Mayor would support looking to install a lighted crosswalk in another section of Town, Mayor Umstattd stated the issue is whether or not it works and whether it engenders a false sense of security. She stated she and Council Member Wright have observed the same thing with the sign in the middle of the crosswalk at the W&OD crossing on Dry Mill Road, She stated bicyclists do not look and just continue on the trail ignoring the stop signs. She stated she would like staff to research the Manassas crosswalk. Vice Mayor Hammier asked if Loudoun County Public Schools will be constructing a crosswalk across Route 15 at Tuscarora High School. Mr. Grow stated they are constructing a sidewalk and installing a pedestrian signal at Dry Hollow Road. b. BAR Process and Issues Brett Burk, Leesburg Planning Commission Chair, provided a briefing on the Planning Commission/Board of Architectural Review (BAR) joint meeting on BAR process and issues. He stated the discussion included timing of BAR review for legislative applications for projects in the H-l and H-2, the appeal standard to be used by the Council when hearing appeals of BAR decisions and the duration of a Certificate of Approval/Historic District Permit issued by the BAR, Mr. Burk stated the Planning Commission and BAR unanimously recommended that BAR review of legislative applications be integrated concurrently with the legislative review by the Planning Commission. He stated regarding the appeals standard, the majority of the Planning Commission and BAR recommended that the existing appeal standard be maintained. He stated this was not a unanimous vote as there was one dissention. He stated that many members would have liked to have seen some process to expand the consideration for the appeal, but could not come up with a system for this that did not completely subvert the BAR procedures. Further, he stated the Planning Commission and BAR had much discussion regarding the appropriate duration for a BAR approval before unanimously recommending an administrative time extension for six months beyond the current two years subject to the following conditions; (1) applicant has diligently pursued completion of the project, (2) Zoning Administrator shall include notification for the extension to adjacent property owners and (3) extensions shall be granted in six-month increments. Vice Mayor Hammier asked who would determine whether the applicant is "diligently" pursuing completion of the project. Mr, Burk stated that would be determined by the Zoning Administrator, Brian Boucher stated this was a suggestion to allow for an applicant who has been trying to go through our process but something stops them. He stated there have been cases in the past where an applicant has an approved site plan; however, the permit expires because they cannot acquire an off-site easement, He stated the thought was in circumstances like that the Zoning Administrator could look at the record and grant a six-month extension. He stated this prevents an applicant from sitting on their application for years; however, it is also fair, Town Council Work Session of Aoril 27. 2009 Page 5 Mr. Burk stated on the first point "the applicant has diligently pursued completion of the project" there was some concern that people might get extensions without intention to pursue the project, Mayor Umstattd asked what were the arguments against starting the clock when all the approvals are in place. Mr, Boucher stated if you wait till all the approvals are in place you create a situation where an applicant applies for a site plan and staff does not have enough time, Council Member Wright stated one of the discussions centered on the idea of making sure it is a real project. He offered the example of the shopping center in front of the Fieldstone Apartments and other projects where the shopping centers are erected all of a sudden and the plans have been approved for 20 years. Mr. Burk stated the group also discussed the notification to adjacent property owners quite a bit because a neighbor could complain to the Town about a problem in the 25 month only to find that there was a six month extension granted, Council Member Dunn stated he agrees with item one regarding the timing of BAR review. He stated the appeals process has always been of concern to him and he is concerned that on the day of the vote there were only four Planning Commission members present. He stated it is important to remember that the BAR is operating under our guidelines and we do not have to feel like anything is written in stone as we can have the BAR do whatever we need it to accomplish for our needs today. He stated he would like have the BAR appeals process more open to applicants to where they can come to Council for certain issues. He stated he would like to look at this process a little more. He expressed concern with the flexibility in the six-month extension for a BAR permit stating it opens the door for someone to be upset. He stated he would rather have a solid three year time frame than the six month extensions. Mr. Burk stated Council Member Dunn has some of the same concerns about the appeals process that he had personally, He stated in looking to open the appeals process he was not able to go from opening the appeals process some without voiding the BAR. Council Member Dunn stated there were some changes in the one proposed appeals process in Section 3.10,14 that takes out some of the wording and verified that is the De Novo review which was not recommended. He stated as it is now if the BAR defers a project for 75 days there is an automatic approval; however, if an application is denied it is difficult to appeal. Council Member Reid asked why this is coming back to Council in this manner rather than staff presenting a regulation for the Planning Commission and BAR to weigh in on. He stated now we have another step because it has to go back to staff and a public hearing has to be scheduled. Mr. Boucher stated the instruction from Council was that staff take various options to the Planning Commission and the BAR in a joint meeting for discussion and a report back to Council. Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Paqe 6 Council Member Reid stated at the February meeting there seemed to be general consent that the applicant should have the option to go to the BAR or Planning Commission first; however, this recommendation is that the review should be concurrent. He stated Council has a majority to change the appeals process so the residents or whoever appeals has the opportunity for Council to look at the evidence, He stated we, as the elected officials of Leesburg, should not have to be forced to sit there and pretend we are judges. Further, he stated the residents who were opposed to the firehouse were not allowed to present evidence and Council had to base their ruling on whether the BAR was arbitrary or capricious. He urged Council to support the De Novo review which is used by other Councils in Virginia. He verified the six month extensions on the BAR approval are not limited to just one extension, He stated this was a very good idea that Council Member Martinez presented so an applicant is not stuck with a set time, rather if they are pursuing their plan they can apply for an extension of six months. He stated that is how we should proceed with this is to have the staff advertise the ruling and move the process forward, He stated he is very committed to the appeals standard, Council Member Butler stated he has no interest in allowing De Novo review which would require Council to do the BARs job. He stated in looking at history there have been very few denials from applicants and the risk we run is that they work with the BAR to get an approval; however, with a De Novo review it could turn into a political decision with a worse outcome than if they had worked with the BAR over a few meetings. He stated he supports the recommendations of the Planning Commission and BAR. Council Member Wright stated having had the opportunity to sit in on the joint meeting he would like to take the opportunity to thank the BAR for taking the initiative in advance of the meeting to come in with a consensus opinion, He stated he supports all the recommendations of the Planning Commission and BAR, He stated having applications reviewed concurrently would allow the applicant to go in for a non-binding first look at the BAR level and would not do anything to preempt the process, Mr. Burk stated this will also help prevent "deal breakers" from coming along later, Council Member Wright stated he fully supports the work and recommendations of the Planning Commission and BAR. Vice Mayor Hammier stated she too appreciates everyone's time and effort on this review, She stated by virtue of the fact that we've had this many meetings and this many special sessions the basic premise is that there is an issue we need to confront, She stated something needs to change because the elected body needs to have the final ruling when it comes to legislative decisions, She stated Council sets the vision in this case for the downtown, which is a living, breathing, important and evolving part that we care very much about as a top priority on our list of initiatives and objectives. She stated she would be open to looking to amend the appeals process or that Council handles all of the final rulings on legislative decisions, She stated in looking at the Waterford application we were grateful that the legislative decision that we wanted did Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Paqe 7 happen; however, we open ourselves to some risk moving forward unless we tackle this now, Dieter Meyer, BAR Vice Chairman, stated the concurrent review by all bodies makes sense, He stated there is really no risk as this is precisely what a developer ought to be doing, He stated the six month extensions on the BAR permit also makes sense. He stated he did not see the need for any time limits at all; however, there were arguments made that the applicant has to show that they are diligently pursuing project completion, which is important. He stated regarding the De Novo review versus the current standard, the public has spoken strongly in favor of keeping the current process. He stated with the De Novo review Council would be allowed to overrule a BAR decision even if it found the BAR did exercise sound, reasonable discretion which is not good government, Mayor Umstattd stated this has been a tough issue. She stated in observing the way Council reacts to the Planning Commission recommendations and the BAR decisions, generally the BAR decisions are more final than commission recommendations. She stated her observation is that most Council Members think long and hard before voting against a Planning Commission recommendation even though we have a right to a De Novo review of all major Planning Commission decisions. She stated she respects the BAR's opinion on the De Novo review process; however, she still feels Council should be the final decision maker in that process. She stated Council Member Dunn made a good point that if Council has a problem with the guidelines then Council ought to amend them, as opposed to having the BAR interpret the guidelines to the best of their ability only to have Council overturn them. She stated the Council is the body the public relies on, the body they elect and we ought to make the final decision, Council Member Wright stated he would argue that Council does make the legislative decisions, He stated in the circumstance where Council went to the BAR to watch them review the Waterford application the overall result we wanted to see from an economic development view was accomplished and the BAR did a much better job in enhancing the architectural value much better than we could have. He stated if we correct the process to allow concurrent reviews the architecture issues will be resolved in that same chain of thought, He stated you do not need De Novo review if you have concurrent review because Council will make the legislative decision and allow the people who have better the training to deal with the details of the architecture. Council Member Dunn stated from his experience as Council liaison to the BAR he has seen a number of decisions that were the opinions of seven people and not the decision of the body, He stated the items that come before the BAR, whether it is a 100,000 square foot Waterford new construction project or piece of fascia on the back of a deck on Monroe Street, cover a wide variety of applications. He stated the BAR is what we want it to be and it may be that the BAR has come to a point where what it originally was has evolved into something else or maybe we need it to evolve into something else for Leesburg today. He stated we are moving in that direction, but we have not moved far enough to what the BAR should have been as our historic preservation body and we need efforts in that area, He stated getting back to the importance of our Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 8 existing historic buildings is where he would like the BAR to focus. He stated there are a lot of opinions that come out of the BAR because you are working on the art of the building and seven people may feel differently about what is acceptable or not. Council Member Reid stated he agrees with the Mayor that the Town officials are responsible for what happens, He stated he is concerned that we are again talking in terms of safeguards, He stated it is true we have reformed the process for the 75 day mandate, the concurrent review and new guidelines, but there have been cases that have come before the BAR recently where staff has recommended denial. He stated usually the BAR will work with an applicant to make sure they do not deny the application; however, when people from the community come to the BAR who are concerned about an application the BAR becomes concerned about what the residents are saying and therefore the application is denied or approved and someone goes away unhappy, He stated these citizens have every right to then go to their elected official to ask for a review of the evidence. He stated we have talked about this and we need to have the commission and staff draft a recommendation to encompass what they have drafted for items one and three and perhaps a straw vote is needed to direct them to hold a hearing on the De Novo review. Council Member Butler stated his concern is something like the Waterford Development, which was approved by the BAR; however, they could have come forward with the attitude that this is our proposal, take it or leave it because we will just go to Council knowing that Council would not deny this application, He stated without the approval of the BAR it could hurt the appearance of the downtown, He expressed concern that Council would hear appeals on fascia board applications as well. He stated this would take up a lot of time and potentially add a negative value to the process. Further, he stated contrary to the law, whether a decision is arbitrary and constitutes an abuse of discretion there are plenty of opportunities for Council to take control if necessary. Council Member Dunn stated looking at Waterford and other projects, approvals on the BAR do not happen hard and fast like Planning Commission decisions, rather the deferrals happen meeting after meeting after meeting. He stated the Waterford project took four or five meetings of deferrals and it is still not officially completed. He stated some applicants get discouraged because the process never seems to end. Further, he stated the resident with the fascia board project most likely would not want to come to Council for one or two meetings after going to the BAR, Council Member Reid stated the residents have the right to get a proper hearing. He stated if residents want to appeal the Waterford development and Council has to sit here and determine of the BAR was arbitrary or capricious. He stated we are capable of examining the guidelines. He stated it seems there is division here, whereas there was a majority before and perhaps we should proceed with the other recommendations and discuss the appeals process further. He stated perhaps we can combine the arbitrary, capricious or abuse of discretion review with an evidentiary element, Ms, Irby stated Council would just be making more work for themselves. Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 9 Vice Mayor Hammier asked if there is a way to compartmentalize the appeals process. Ms, Irby stated she has thought about this quite a bit and Council needs to make a decision whether to maintain the present standard, Council Member Reid stated there is nothing wrong with having the Planning Commission advertise a regulation for De Novo review, hold the hearing and vote on the issue when it comes to Council. Council Member Wright stated Council had done just that. He stated we had that discussion with the public and several members public ask to maintain the current appeals process. He stated we have discussed the issue, we have held a public hearing, we have heard from the public, we have voted and questioned how many times in a year do we want to hold a public hearing on the same question, Vice Mayor Hammier stated she does not support tabling the discussion of appeals as we need to make a decision one way or the other as a Council and we owe that to everyone who has been involved in this process, Council Member Reid asked for a straw vote to determine how many Council Members would like to move forward with the De Novo review and the other recommendations of the BAR and Planning Commission. Council Member Dunn asked Council's next step in this process. Ms. Irby stated Council Member Wright is correct in that Council has already voted on this issue, so if it is to be brought back up then the same process must be followed starting with the initiation of a resolution the appeals process and other two recommendations. Mayor Umstattd suggested that each item be handled as separate items. She stated a resolution could be started tomorrow night. Council Member Dunn asked if he is correct that another set of public hearings is not needed. Ms. Irby stated the public hearings are needed, but Council has already been though the process on the appeals issue once, She suggested that Council move forward with the Mayor's suggestion to separate the appeals issues from the other two recommendations, but keep in mind that Council had this discussion approximately six months ago. Council Member Reid stated that is why he asked for a show of hands to see if there are still four votes for De Novo review. He stated it appears there is a majority for De Novo Review, Vice Mayor Hammier stated her personal preference is that the elected body have the final say, She stated she personally learned a lot and it took that to get to this point. Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 10 Mr. Burk thanked staff for their recommendations in this process and the BAR for their willingness to meet with the Planning Commission, c. Beer and Wine Policy Rich Williams outlined the proposal to allow alcohol at designated Town facilities and events. He stated this item came forward in the Parks and Recreation Advisory Commission who evaluated this concept including different practices, benefits and challenges of other jurisdictions such as the Town of Herndon and Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority. He stated the Town of Vienna has a policy to allow the consumption of alcohol at parks; however, they do not like the policy and usually do not approve applications, Further, he stated Loudoun County is also in the process implementing an alcohol consumption policy. Mr. Williams stated the Commission unanimously endorsed this recommendation to Council. He stated in general the department favors allowing alcohol in selected facilities with certain restrictions in place which could possibly be expanded later if the program is successful. He stated the alcohol would be limited to beer and wine and would be restricted to the lower level of the recreation center, the tennis center and the Olde Izaak Walton Park building, which are all supervised facilities. He stated the alcohol would be restricted to the hours of 8 p.m. to midnight to eliminate the potential conflict of different user groups, He stated Town staff would not provide or serve alcohol and no recreation programs involving alcohol would be offered to avoid the Town securing an ABC permit for any event, He stated the special events allowance would be for something similar to a wine garden at the Flower and Garden Festival for which the vendor would serve and secure the permit. He stated the Town would retain the discretion to deny any application or designate additional temporary locations or extend time limits as needed. He stated the estimated revenue potential for this program is $15,000. Further, he stated if Council desires to move forward staff would develop a formal Standard of Procedure (SOP) for the Commission's approval and a Town Code amendment for Council's approval. Council Member Reid verified Council is not being asked to approve this proposal tomorrow night. Council Member Dunn stated he cannot support this proposal. He stated we have a long standing policy against the consumption of alcohol in government facilities and it is important to maintain that policy. He stated as much as he appreciates staff looking to increase revenue and decrease the burden on the taxpayers, this is one revenue source that he cannot attach his name to. He stated the purpose of having alcohol at events is to achieve a certain level of fun; however, the consequences outweigh the revenue. He stated there used to be alcohol served at the First Friday events until the state stopped that practice for various reasons. Further, he stated the role of recreation should be to promote health, not things that would risk health, Council Member Reid stated he attended a Passover seder held by the Beth Chaverim Synagogue at Ida Lee two years ago and verified they could not serve wine for Kiddush, He stated there is no real gradation here. He stated kiddush is just a sip or two of wine and here we would allow someone holding a dance or Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 11 party to serve alcohol. He asked if there would be an additional fee charged for this. Mr. Williams stated the applicant would be responsible for securing the ABC permit. He stated the Town's policy would be modeled after the Town of Herndon's, Council Member Reid asked if staff or police will be present to monitor the event. Mr. Williams stated that would depend on how the SOP is written. He stated the model staff is using came from the Town of Herndon which has a point system based on factors such as the type of event, number of attendees, and time of the event to determine if security is needed, Council Member Reid asked the Town of Herndon's experience with this policy, Mr. Williams presented a matrix showing different jurisdictions and their experience with the policy. He stated the Town of Herndon has had only one negative challenge in the past seven years, Council Member Reid stated his concern, in addition to Council Member Dunn's comments, is that a Town facility would be competing with private venues such as Lightfoot, Tuscarora Mill, Carradoc Hall and future hotels that may come to Leesburg, He stated the Ida Lee prices will be less and asked if there was a disincentive to using Ida Lee, Mr, Williams stated this would provide a low cost option for individuals who cannot afford other options; however, there will always be people who may not want to hold their reception at a recreation center, Council Member Reid stated the lower level of the Ida Lee Recreation Center is a large room and could be in direct competition with private venues. He stated one incident in seven years in Herndon is enough to raise concern. Further, he asked what was driving this policy change. Mr. Williams stated this discussion came up at a Parks and Recreation Commission meeting, He stated Council Member Martinez who was in attendance raised the issue and the rest of the Commission felt it was something that they would want to look into. Vice Mayor Hammier stated we now have a tennis complex and the tennis community is accustomed to having various mixers at the former Sport and Health Club. She stated this is a legitimate request from the tennis community. Mr, Williams stated based on the staff recommendation the mixer would have to operate in a different format. He stated currently the Town organizes the mixers and charges a fee for attendance. He stated the Town could not continue to organize the mixers as that would require that the Town acquire an ABC permit. He stated the model of the mixer would need to change and perhaps a group of players could rent the courts to hold their mixer, Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 12 Council Member Reid stated he appreciates Council Member Martinez or any other Council member bringing up initiatives such as this; however, he has grave concerns, Council Member Butler stated he does not have grave concerns with this and believes this is a good idea, He stated there are many fund raisers held at which alcohol and snacks served. He stated his only concern is that 8 p.m. may be late for many functions and suggested moving the time to 4 p.m, or 6 p.m. on the weekends to accommodate fund raisers and similar functions. He stated 8 p,m. may be late for many wedding receptions. Further, he stated the current proposal is reasonable. Council Member Wright stated 8 p.m. does seem late for respectable events or the average wedding reception, He stated the market targeted in the beginning of the report would fall within 6 p.m, or 7 p.m. range and as you go into 8 p.m, or later you find a narrower group of uses that we may not be after. He stated he would tend to argue, that the rental cost should increase; however, we have heard two "no"s and one "yes" on this proposal and he is at a "maybe" to a "no". He stated the revenue projection is $15,000 with the reasonable restrictions presented; however, based on those restrictions the potential revenue may be lower to the point that it might not make sense to continue. He stated years ago Leesburg Renaissance wanted to do beer gardens, which was handled by a legislative exception, He stated he would be more comfortable with that example for our special events versus expanding the market, He stated Council Member Reid raised the issue of competition with the hotels and such and if it seems we do not have majority Council support he would not wish to use Councilor staff time to pursue the issue further. Mayor Umstattd stated Council Member Wright raised some good points. She stated there are two main groups she can think of that would wish to provide beer or wine; wedding receptions which tend to take place earlier in the day, and banquets. She stated this is interesting because some Town events like the Business Appreciation Awards have wine available; however, it is held on private property and the taxpayers do not pay for the wine. She stated she is concerned with the liability issue, She asked if someone becomes intoxicated at the Business Appreciation Awards, which is a Town event held on private property, and hits another car would the Town be any more or less liable than if a wedding reception was held at Ida Lee and a guest did the same thing. Mr. Williams stated his understanding is that the person or group that holds the ABC permit is responsible for the proper disbursement of the alcohol. Jeanette Irby verified that the first person to be sued would be the person who holds the permit, Vice Mayor Hammier stated she supports this policy and effort based on the recommendation of the Commission. She stated she read a letter to the editor published in a local paper in response to the County's discussion of this topic, She stated the person made two good points, one is that beer and wine are an important part of our local agricultural community and second that if it is the role of parks and recreation to promote a healthy life style then we should have healthier choices in the vending machines rather than soda. She stated she believes that we are encouraging responsibility as most, if not all citizens are Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Paqe 13 responsible. She stated she has lived oversees enough to see this strange dichotomy of cultures where society is more accepting and children are more exposed to responsible drinking and have a much more responsible approach to their college years and such verses this type of culture where we have put a taboo on drinking. She stated she supports a time change to something more reasonable and promoting local wine from Loudoun County. Council Member Dunn stated another example is where we have ribbon cuttings and the establishment may serve alcoholic beverages, He stated the point on the wine or beer versus soda is that he has not seen too many accidents caused by soda, He asked Mr. Williams to tell Council what he had shared with him about another community considering this policy, Mr, Williams stated that was with Loudoun County. He stated they have not formally introduced this policy at this point; however, when word got out that this policy was being considered specifically for Franklin Park Art Center, a lot of other facilities within the Loudoun County Parks and Recreation Department came forward and wanted to be part of this policy, Council Member Dunn expressed concern that once Council allows this then there is nothing to stop us to consider any other establishments or any other park or facility we have in Town. Vice Mayor Hammier stated we have a very designated and strict policy. She stated hypothetically if we had a government owned performing arts center, it would be customary for wine and beer to be served during intermission. She stated this would be an example of an appropriate setting versus an inappropriate setting such as all of the parks. Council Member Dunn stated his point is that we could get requests to allow this at other venues and the policy could expand, Council Member Wright stated he would not include Olde Izaak Walton Park in this program due to the lighting and parking situation. He stated from what Council Member Dunn was discussing with expansion, he could see people requesting a special permission to allow beer and alcohol for a rental of the special event field at Ida Lee, Council Member Butler stated Olde Izaak Walton Park is potentially a good site for types of entertainment that could have a vendor during intermissions; however, he does understand Council Member Wright's concerns. He stated besides moving the start time earlier, it may be wise to also move the end time earlier he stated as Council Member Wright explained the alcohol consumed between 10 p,m, and midnight might not be for the types of reasons potentially as earlier consumption would be. Mayor Umstattd stated that is a very good point to cut off the alcohol at nine. Council Member Wright stated Council Member Reid mentioned 11 p.m. He stated the event could continue until later; however, many times when you attend catered events you see the alcohol moved out of the room at 10 p.m, or 11 p,m. Town Council Work Session of Aoril 27. 2009 Page 14 Council Member Reid asked if any other Council Members are concerned with the impact on the restaurants and hotels if Ida Lee goes into this business, Mayor Umstattd stated she used to argue that Ida Lee should not have a weight room because that was publically financed competition with the private gyms. She stated we are already there, She stated it is competition, but it is lower cost competition and we are already competing by allowing weddings and events at Ida Lee, Council Member Reid asked if there are a large number of weddings held at Ida Lee, Mr. Williams stated during the wedding season there will be three or four weddings a month at Ida Lee. Council Member Dunn asked if the purpose of this policy is more of a revenue source or a convenience factor, Mayor Umstattd stated Council Member Martinez and the Parks and Recreation Commission were responding to feedback from individuals who would like to hold their wedding reception at Ida Lee; however, they are not permitted to have a champagne toast. She stated she does not believe this is anything other than customer demand. Council Member Dunn stated as we have already mentioned most wedding receptions would not be held during the hours staff has asked Council to consider. He stated if this is for wedding receptions then we are not meeting that need with this proposal. Mr. Williams stated the closing time for the recreation center is what was driving the 8 p.m. start. He stated on Saturday nights Ida Lee closes at 8 p,m. and this would allow staff to keep all of the conflicting groups away from each other. He stated staff can look at changing the timeframe while drafting the SOP for the Commission's approval. Council Member Reid asked if alcohol would be prohibited if children are present, Mr, Williams stated that would not be part of this policy as children may be part of a wedding party, Council Member Reid stated he is thinking more of Bar Mitzvahs. Mr. Williams stated staff would not look to restrict that either. He stated staff would obviously have a concern if the individual who obtained the ABC license was serving alcohol to minors, Mr. Wells stated staff will draft SOPs based on tonight's conversation for approval by the Parks and Recreation Commission and prepare an ordinance amendment for Council's approval. d. Form Based Code Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 15 Susan Berry Hill stated this process began over a year ago when a consultant was hired to develop a draft code, She stated there were several drafts produced before review by the steering committee. She stated at that time the steering committee decided to run a pro-forma on the concept plan for one of these sites and the steering committee was very fortunate to have Ted Kalriess do this for us. She stated the pro-forma was very enlightening in how the code would be viewed from a financial perspective and outlined some of the key takeaways with regards to structured parking. Council Member Wright stated one of the key takeaways was looking at the size of the blocks, how to orient them, the logistics of wrapping the parking structure all the way around and the fact that there is rock and water prohibiting the structure from going low which causes the structured parking to be very expensive. He stated the concern in doing this was to ensure that whatever was adopted would encourage people to build and not cause construction to freeze, Ms, Berry Hill stated one of the big costs was infrastructure associated with the street system and utility relocation. Mayor Umstattd asked if the urban street grid causes a problem for utility relocation, Ms. Berry Hill stated it does because the utilities need to go where they best fit and if you have more street to work around then that can cause an increase in the distance for relocation. Council Member Wright stated the bigger challenge is the setbacks. He stated moving the structures closer to the street has narrowed the area in which to have the utility lines. Ms. Berry Hill stated the steering committee has been looking through the code again to evaluate "showstoppers", concerns and things they can live with. She stated the committee will meet again tomorrow morning at 8:00 a,m, to prepare for the report to Council and the Planning Commission on May 20. She outlined four of the main code issues including, application of the district and whether this would be a mandatory or overlay district or a text amendment that developers would be required to zone to. She stated the committee has recommended the mandatory district. Council Member Wright stated the other problem with a text only district is that it defeats the purpose. He stated this is a by-right encouragement where we get the tighter restrictions and requirements in the form based code and in exchange if they meet all of the criteria they can build. He stated the idea of requiring a developer to rezone into this defeats the purpose, Ms. Berry Hill stated the next code issue discussed was non-conforming properties and the "trigger" at which compliance for expanding the use of the property which is set right now at 10 percent of the assessed value. She stated the third issue is suburban vs. more urban standards while maintaining our small town feel. She stated the final issue is regulating maps, particularly the street grid. She stated one of the takeaways from doing the test cases and pro forma is that the grid may be too extensive and the committee will be looking Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 16 for ways to perhaps simplify this or maintain the grid to allow for the flow of traffic through the area. Further, she outlined several implementation issues including catalytic projects to encourage redevelopment, financing for infrastructure and how that would occur, changes to other ordinances and how the DCSM would be applied, staffing and process preparation for working with the form based code and area of applicability including the Crescent District and the possibility of an expanded area. Council Member Wright stated overall the consensus of the committee is that the size of the district is the size of the district, He stated the challenge is we continue to worry because of how much detail is in the form based code and whether we are painting too broad of a brush and focusing on too broad of an area, He stated the only other alternate position is that it might be phased to expand out from the Crescent District, He stated it would not be the consensus to retract the area without a plan to expand out. Ms, Berry Hill stated the committee feels it is a good time for a report to the Town Council and the Planning Commission, She stated a joint workshop has been scheduled for May 20 at Ida Lee Recreation Center, She stated the purpose of the workshop is to determine if the process is ready to move from the committee to the Planning Commission or if there is further work to be done, Council Member Dunn stated form based code is what we want it to be. He stated there are concepts and we can adopt that form to meet our needs here in Leesburg. He stated we do not have to fit our Town to a book, He stated to say "we just cannot do it" is saying "we just do not choose to do it", He stated we have limited ourselves and our own vision, He suggested that Council consider expanding the way our downtown looks further out, which has been our goal. He stated he would like to see three separate zones of form based code that uses the mandatory, overlay and text-only options. He stated the Crescent District would be Zone One and would be mandatory, Zone Two would be from the Crescent District to the bypass and Zone Three is outside the bypass to the Town limits. He stated we have different development areas; however, it is a shame that the way we want our Town to look is at mercy of the developers right now and most of our development is outside the bypass not inside the Crescent District. He stated we will wait years to see where we can even implement the form based code in its purest and most detailed levels if we limit it to the Crescent District because we are going to be waiting for redevelopment. He stated there is some development from the Crescent District to the bypass, but we are missing those opportunities daily. He stated our greatest development is outside the bypass. Further, he stated this is why he would like to see the area expanded to include a "form based light" version, which would not be nearly as detailed. Council Member Wright stated that is one of the things staff has been looking at and Council Member Dunn is on the right track. He stated he likes the idea of the different zones. He stated staff has already started to take elements of the form based code to apply to the Zoning Ordinance to start to accomplish the "form based light". Council Member Dunn stated he looks at the Market Square at Potomac Station development we could have required the developer to move the same square footage up to the sidewalk and create a grid network within it, He stated Town Council Work Session of Aoril 27. 2009 Page 17 we are currently zoning to too much parking rather than creating more of a walkable environment, He stated Council Member Wright said maybe the area is too broad; however, maybe the code is too broad, He stated he does not want Council to get so focused on this because as it is we are looking at years and years before we ever see the results in the Crescent District. Council Member Wright summarized Council Member Dunn's comments to ask if there is a way to simplify what we are trying to accomplish in form based code to make it effective sooner as opposed to going so into the minutia of it that we never get anything, Council Member Dunn stated maybe we should proceed from the outside in as opposed to starting from the core. He stated we could have had the Market Square development look as we wanted it too, but we did not have the means for it except under form based code, He stated we do not have to use such a broad brush with this because there is nothing to stop us from dictating the form to various lots. Council Member Reid stated form based code has been adopted in Arlington and asked what other counties or towns in Virginia have adopted this. Ms. Berry Hill stated she would have to report back as she does not know all of the places that utilize a form based code, Council Member Reid asked if it would be advisable to use the form based code adopted in other parts of the state rather than reinventing the wheel here for Leesburg. He stated we could look at what other jurisdictions have done to see if it would apply here. Ms. Berry Hill stated we have our draft code pretty well adapted to what we are trying to achieve in Leesburg, Council Member Reid stated he would like to see the draft code. He stated asked if there was cooperation from Virginia Village and McDonald's on the test cases. He asked if Virginia Village is interested in redeveloping. Ms. Berry Hill acknowledged she would provide a copy of the draft code. She stated Brian Ours of Virginia Village is serving on the steering committee and seemed to be watching with interest. Council Member Wright stated the test cases were selected as one large parcel area and several small parcel areas. He stated they were not selected because of anyone's particular interest, but rather just to show what could or could not be done. He stated Mr. Ours did not ask us to select his property; rather his property happened to be a large parcel with roads going through it. Council Member Reid stated he has spoken with private real estate people who have told him that Mr, Ours in not interested in doing anything for that property. Ms, Berry Hill stated she does not know; however, he seems to have watched with interest. She .stated there has been a concept created to show how the site might be redeveloped arid what the pro forma results were from the testing, Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 18 Council Member Reid asked if Ms. Berry Hill is indicating that the form based code is not applicable to the H-2 District at all or just part of the H-2 Corridor, Ms. Berry Hill stated there is overlap with the H-2, She stated there is part of East Market Street which is included inside the bypass and in the form based code study area. Council Member Reid asked if it is part of the smaller area that has been adopted for the code. Ms, Berry Hill stated it could be. Council Member Reid asked where the small area is located. Ms, Berry Hill stated the area that is east of Plaza Street is covered by the H- 2 Corridor as is the East Market Street area outside the Crescent District. Council Member Reid stated when the Crescent District Master Plan was first adopted he was excited. He stated the form based code was represented to him as something that could obviate the need for special exceptions and verified that is still the case. He stated I've learned a lot about real estate since that time and I think developers in this area are going to be more attracted to virgin land outside of Leesburg or maybe some parcels in Leesburg to do this kind of redevelopment, He stated he does not think we will see the fruition of this for many, many years because it is not going to be economically viable unless we have shopping center owners come forward asking for their property to be redeveloped with streets running through. He stated so far, at least with the case of the Waterford project, we gave them a pass on one of the streets in the grid because it was not doable for their project. He stated he does not know how much money or time this is costing, but he is concerned putting another layer of regulation on this could discourage that type of development. He stated we all want to see something done in this area, but we are competing against large land owners in Ashburn, Sterling and some parts of Leesburg. He stated it is a lot easier to build the Lansdowne type centers from scratch than it is to redevelop. Further, he stated as much as he would like to get the BAR out of the H-2, he does not know if property owners will step up to do this and asked how much staff time and resources we should be putting into a regulation like this, Council Member Butler stated the committee has done a great job and he supports the entire study area as it is the right size and the right location. He stated there may be some issues with the grid network, but he feels the developers will find the form based code easier to work with than our current set of zoning ordinances. He stated in that respect he believes it will encourage redevelopment; however, he does not believe it will happen quickly as this is a 50 year plan. He stated it is incumbent upon Council to put this kind of plan in and envision what the Town will look like in that long time frame. Council Member Reid stated he thought the Crescent District was a 20 year plan. . Town Council Work Session of Aoril 27. 2009 Paqe 19 Council Member Dunn stated he believes it was originally a 15 year plan which was amended. Council Member Wright stated he believes the adopted Crescent District Master Plan states it will be implemented overtime and has a 20 year horizon. Vice Mayor Hammier stated she appreciates everyone's hard work, She stated she supports the direction and has found this discussion to be very helpful in terms of key takeaways, She stated she does not feel this adds regulation, rather it facilities communication in the development community and becomes a win-win because this type of improvement has been statistically proven to raise the economic value of the actual structure. She stated her only regret in looking backward is that we did not start this process sooner as this would have been of tremendous value, not only in the example Council Member Dunn mentioned, but the entire Plaza Street corridor when Federal Reality was looking at redeveloping that area. She stated she is optimistic about the form based code and she believes we will see tremendous opportunities downtown sooner rather than later. Mayor Umstattd stated this has a lot of potential and some in the development community are very excited about this because they will now know what the rules are. She stated at some point she would like to get a sense of the extent to which the Town will need to invest in infrastructure and the extent to which our taxpayers or the private sector will be asked to contribute. She stated this does have tremendous potential and thanked Ms, Berry Hill, Council Member Wright and the members of the committee for their efforts on the form based code, e. SW Connector Trail Project Update Mr, Dentler stated this recommendation came out of the citizen's committee Council appointed back in 2006 to address trail access in the southeast and southwest quadrants and gave a brief history of the project. He stated the plans are under design and the review process has started. He stated the project will be constructed in four phases and is scheduled to begin in summer 2010, He stated staff is currently beginning to meet with the eight property owners along the trail regarding easements. Further, he stated the project involves coordination with VDOT, FEMA and the NVRPA, Council Member Dunn asked which four property owners have been contacted, Mr. Dentler stated he did not know which four had been contacted, He stated all eight property owners have received letters. Council Member Dunn stated this is a big project, a lot of money is being spent and the ultimate goal is to meet the request of the residents in the southwest for a connection to the trail system. He stated during the budget process he asked what the cost would be to consider the original plan from 1994, He stated that plan would allow for people to connect to the trail system faster, for less money and it would take about two years to construct. He asked if different property owners are being contacted now, or if some of them are the same owners impacted about the original option, Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Paqe 20 Mr. Dentler stated the connection Council Member Dunn is referring to is at the end of Chancellor Street and outlined this alignment. He stated in that case there were two main property owners impacted. Council Member Dunn stated if there is a way to expedite the process to get people to the trail for less money it might satisfy the residents, He asked who the eight property owners are for the current proposed alignment. Mayor Umstattd stated we probably should not give names publically because they may like their privacy, She asked that Council Member Dunn speak to Mr, Dentler offline. Council Member Dunn stated the older alignment would alleviate the need to cut down the trees on Lee Avenue as well. Council Member Reid stated he did not expect this to come up on the agenda tonight; however, he mentioned during the CIP discussion that he hopes to cut the cost of the trail so we can accelerate the project, He stated he and Council Member Butler have spoken in detail about this. He stated we could save money by constructing the Lee Avenue Trail as a second phase as there is already pavement there on Lee that could be used for bikers and walkers and estimated the savings at $2 million, He stated the other thing we can do is less expensive bridging through the wetlands to cut back on expenses. He stated we could also have a packed trail versus a hard-surface trail during the interim to save money and he hopes staff will look to get some of the right-of-way dedicated for the trail. He stated he is aware that the original option under Dry Mill Road could be cheaper, but it does not seem this is the way Council wishes to go. Further, he urged Council to look at less expensive options stating we do not need a platinum trail right away. Council Member Butler stated one of the things he spoke with Council Member Reid about is the possibility of talking to staff about the cost .per segment and priority and then allow staff to come back with potential options to cut some of the cost, He stated he saw a flyer distributed in the Chancellor Street area because one resident is not interested in a trail at the end of Chancellor Street whereas others on that street support the trail. He stated he has no desire to fight the 1998 fight again, Council Member Wright stated he appreciates that we are moving forward on design and getting this trail completed. He encouraged staff to look for creative alternatives for engineering or cost saving measures, He stated he would caution Council to keep the current alignment of the trail as changing the alignment or scope could waste all of the design funds we have spent. He stated it would not necessary expedite the process unless we run into significant land acquisition issues. Further he asked Council to keep the promise we made to residents to deliver on this trail in the CIP. Vice Mayor Hammier stated she appreciates everyone's compromise and that we are getting to a point of getting this trail built. Council Member Reid asked if VDOT has approved extending the trail over the bypass, Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 21 Mr. Dentler stated this has not been officially approved; however, VDOT has been working with staff on the alignment and we do have preliminary approval. Council Member Reid asked if VDOT is requiring the bridge be long enough to accommodate six or eight lanes on the bypass. Mr, Dentler stated they have spoken about the expansion of the bypass; however, he does not know how many lanes were discussed. Council Member Reid stated that was the issue with the Sycolin Flyover, Council Member Butler stated he has spoken with VDOT about the expansion of the bypass to six lanes. He stated the two lanes would be constructed inward and would not require any extension, Council Member Dunn stated over the next two years $2 million will be spent on the trail and during that time the same $2 million could cover the design and construction of the 1999 plan. He stated his goal is to speed up the process to get the trail to the people and keep the cost down. Council Member Reid stated the way to do it is through doing this in phases. He stated there are ways to save money through a packed trail and less expensive bridges through the wetlands. Mayor Umstattd stated she concurs with Council Members Butler, Reid, Wright and Vice Mayor Hammier that Council should not fight the old fight again, f. FY 2010 Adopted Budget/CIP Objectives Mr. Wells stated at the last meeting Council Member Reid suggested a number of objectives for Council to consider. He stated prior to that discussion it was also suggested that staff provide a snapshot of what is already on Council's plate. He provided a chart in six areas of priority including economic development and downtown improvements, public safety, capital improvement program, operations and financial management~ land development process improvements and legal, which is things happening to us that require a significant investment of time. He stated many of the things we talk about fit into these Council priority areas and reflect the direction provided early in the budget process, Council Member Wright stated in the budget document we did not have the clear Council initiative and goals page done and this gets us close to that page, He stated under public safety the implementation of the speed-watch program should be called out. He stated under operations and financial management the bullet referring to analyzing cost effectiveness of current service delivery methods came from two different discussions during the budget process, He stated one discussion was the cost effectiveness of current delivery methods and the other was identify new efficiencies and focus areas where there may be services we do not need to do or need to do differently. He stated the other item that was not captured was the consolidated communications program and trying not to be as repetitive in the manners in which we communicate. Further, he commented on the process of refining the capital improvement program and the project timing expectations. Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 22 Council Member Butler stated the only other initiative he would like to add is for the Utility Department to examine what we are going to do to use the excess capacity in water and sewer. Council Member Reid stated it seems no one is interested in his objectives as they have been handed out twice, although Mr. Wells has included some in this list. He stated he would like the Balch Library to move forward with establishing an endowment and to talk with the Loudoun Museum, He stated the museum is in need of staff and will not be able to operate this year so that might be a good marriage, He stated many of his initiatives are for FYl0 so that staff can report back for the FY11 budget. He stated the utility staff should be actively looking at what they are doing with the new capacity, He stated he would like to have Council's input on this as many of his objectives are from the budget discussions, for instance Council Member Wright talked about an objective to reduce some of the fuel costs. He stated he is concerned about the use of Town vehicles and that some have personal stickers on them. He stated the Parks and Recreation Department is almost fully sufficient and while an enterprise fund may not be the way to go, they should provide a report before the next budget on when they can be fully independent. He stated there are other items dealing with the Town Manager and Finance that he worked on with Mr. Wells including the capital asset replacement fund. He stated staffing levels need to be examined in the Planning and Zoning Department based on the workload as he believes special exception and rezoning applications have decreased, Further, he stated he would like to see a significant effort to fund tree reforestation. Council Member Wright stated there is a significant portion of our parks and recreation program that is not fee or services generated such as open space and he would not want to charge for the use of the open space, He stated the recreation portion does a good job of getting close to breaking even, but when you start to talk about the overall Parks and Recreations Department being revenue neutral you start to have unintended consequences, Council Member Reid stated he thought there was some interest from the rest of ' Council. He stated his items are what he heard from the discussion, Council Member Dunn stated under the operations section he would like to add certain procedures we have within Council. He suggested adding a downtown improvement zone in additional to a historic preservation plan. He stated he was glad that Mr, Wells mentioned our Planning Commission being more proactive as they are our planning body for the Town of Leesburg and an item will be brought up tomorrow night that is a Council initiated that he feels should be initiated by staff and presented to the Planning Commission first. Vice Mayor Hammier stated under public safety we discussed increasing public/private partnerships for programs such as R,O.C.K, She stated she would like a discussion on where there might be specific objectives that are at the commission level and to make sure we are not missing anything, She stated specifically the EDC map with destination retail made her think of availability fees and extra water capacity that could be used to create incentives to attract more restaurants, She asked that PEG programming be added under operations and financial management saying the commission who is working on this should know that Council is fully supportive, She suggested adding the form based Town Council Work Session of April 27. 2009 Page 23 code under land development process improvements. Further, she suggested adding the fee study. Mr. Wells stated Council will look at the fees Town-wide. He stated we will take each issue and look at the service provided and make a policy decision on whether there should be fully or partially financially recovered. He stated the purpose of the fee study is to identify the cost for the services and then there is a judgment as to whether it is user based or if there is a public benefit. Vice Mayor Hammier stated Council had a couple of discussions on how we are describing the Balch Library as an amenity to citizens and increasing the ability for that asset to have more value to more residents, She stated another related item would be to thank individuals from out-of-Town for coming to the Town to use our library or parks and asking if they would be willing to contribute to a fund where we give all of the donations back to the R.O.C.K, program or something to give back to the community and offset the tax implications for some of these programs. 2. Additions to Future Council Meeting.s Council Member Butler stated he has three items for the Council rules including separating the information and action items on the agenda, setting a timer for Council Member comments and a process that before an item is added to the agenda there should be three Council Members agreeing. He stated he understands there are a couple of individuals interested in entertainment businesses in our 1-1 district and asked that staff come back with a potential code amendment. Council Member Wright stated discussion of the Council rules of order is a good discussion to have. He stated the reason we moved this to a resolution change is so we could look at the process at the end of the fiscal year, Council Member Reid stated he would like to keep the watershed grant item on the consent agenda for tomorrow. He stated he spoke with Dr. Neely Law who agreed that Council could add the "Center for Watershed Protection" to the title after the PEe. He stated the $200,000 is not just for the PEC, it is also for the Center for Watershed Protection which will actually do most of the work, He stated he would like to keep this on consent unless Council wants to get into the policy implication of choosing Freedom Park as the demonstration project as there are other higher priorities. It was the consensus of Council to move forward with this change. Council Member Dunn asked for discussion of the timing of bringing items up for discussion at a future meeting. He stated it seems awkward that this happens only at work sessions because if an item does not come up till the regular meeting then it takes almost a month to get the item on the work session agenda. Mayor Umstattd stated it seems some Council Members feel that for an item to be added to the agenda that at least three members must be in agreement. Council Member Dunn stated he does not agree with that. Council Member Butler stated it is being brought up only for discussion. Town Council Work Session of Aoril 27. 2009 Page 24 Council Member Reid stated he would also like discussion of what staff adds to the agenda as it might be nice to get more notice on some items, Adjournment On a motion by Council Member Wright, seconded by Council Member Hammier, the meeting was adjourned at 10:25 p.m. '1 2009_tcwsmin0427