HomeMy Public PortalAbout2011_tcwsmin0627Council Chambers, 25 West Market Street, 7:30 p.m. Mayor Kristen Umstattd
presiding.
Council Members Present: David S. Butler, Thomas S. Dunn, II, Katie Sheldon
Hammler, Ken Reid, Kevin Wright and Mayor Kristen Umstattd.
Council Members Absent: Council Member Butler arrived at 8:10 p.m.
Council Work Session June 27, 2011
Staff Present: Town Manager John Wells, Deputy Town Manager Kaj Dentler,
Deputy Town Attorney Barbara Notar, Director of Engineering and Public Works
Tom Mason, Director of Plan Review Bill Ackman, Deputy Director of Capital
Projects Renee Lafollette, Capital Projects Project Manager Tom Brandon, and Clerk
of Council Lee Ann Green
AGENDA ITEMS
1. Work Session Items for Discussion
a. DCSM /SLDR Proposed Changes
Bill Ackman: I sent out a memo a couple of weeks ago because I knew
when everybody got a package this large they were going to say "oh my
goodness So we tried to give you a heads up to let you know that all this
paper can really be summarized in into 11 topics. Of those 11 topics there are
often times where one of those topics appears on just a barrage of pages so it
didn't seem too overwhelming when we put this together and I have repeated
that in the staff report. I can go through those 11 or take questions.
Mayor: for the public's benefit, in case anybody is watching, could you
just give a really brief overview on those 11 topics and then we will go to
questions.
Ackman: the subdivision ordinance, the reason why you have the
entire book in front of you is because in the past it started at page 13 50.
That's because way back when when the authorization for the town to have a
subdivision ordinance was permitted by the state, it had to be in the code.
After about 30 years, as best as we can figure out that reference from the state
code giving us authority to have a subdivision ordinance changed from being
required to be in the town code, which coincidently with section 13 -50 two just
the state code said you could have a subdivision ordinance. Server time the
subdivision ordinance changed it was 13 50.1, 50.2, 50.3 and it just got so
convoluted when we were making changes that I felt like this was the correct
time, since you were a variety of pages being changed that we just go back
through and renumber the pages. So that's what number one is.
Number two, as we did the budget we decided that, or it was decided
that capital projects would be approving their own plans... That was to
streamline the process. In doing so, they needed approval authority for plans.
So that's what number two is. Everywhere where it says the director, it was
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inferred director of plan review. So it had to go back and be refined to director
of plan review for essentially private sector projects, director of capital projects
for all public sector... For our capital projects. That's number two.
Number three is in conjunction with that, we never had a separate
criteria for a right -of -way dedication or easement plat. We always fell under
the requirements of the subdivision plat which is apples and oranges. And now
that capital projects is going to be approving their own plats and plans, it just
seemed a little odd for them to reach into the subdivision ordinance to approve
right -of -way plats. So what we did, we created a new section for dedication of
right -of -way plats.
Number four is to be consistent with other jurisdictions and to
streamline the approval process for preliminary residential plans... Subdivision
plan instead of staff going through the process of making recommendations to
the planning commission and saying everything has adhered to our
ordinances, please give us your final blessing... That would take anywhere
from two weeks to a month to schedule after we had done our approvals. So to
streamline that process and not take anything away from the planning
commission, but it really became almost a formality instead of... If they were
to say no to something we were saying yes to, it really put us in a bad position.
This streamlines the process and takes away potential conflict.
Number five is the bonding process. Neither the SLDR nor the DCSM
had our current bonding process. So with the assistance of Mr. Mason, we
identified the bonding process, put it in the subdivision ordinance, took it out
of the DCSM, referenced it by reference to the SLDR so we don't have it in
two places.
Number six is simply there are references that define where the criteria
came from in the DCSM and SLDR but it had become outdated. There are
more current references so we found those places where the references were
outdated. It seemed like a good time to update those references while we were
going through the documents.
Number seven is creating a new type of site plan. Currently we have a
site plan, a minor site plan and a site plan waiver. More often than not there is
an opportunity for something between a minor site plan and site plan waiver.
Perhaps the best example of that is somebody buys a lot and they want to build
a single house on it. Then it's a minor site plan with a fairly significant fee.
What this does is it creates something for the small site plans that don't really
warrant the fees associated with the minor site plan. The scope doesn't match
the fees, so to speak. So by having this mini site plan, a gives us a category we
were missing. We have heard from the private sector and there are several
folks out there waiting for this to be adopted because they fit into that category
and then it really helps them.
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Number eight is to come in compliance with what many other
jurisdictions are doing and that is after construction plans have been approved,
it's good for five years. Site plans. And after that they get a one -time, one -year
extension which is a little more generous than what the state code says. The
state code says the least amount you can have is five years. That's what most
jurisdictions approved. There is good reason for that, because you don't want a
site plan sitting around for 20 years after it's been approved and then it gets
constructed under old standards.
Number nine is putting pretty much a timeframe between when we
issue permits and when our plans are required to come back to us. And we are
setting that at six months. Could that be a year, yes. Could it be three months,
yes. Six months seemed reasonable at the time. I'll leave that up to you all if
you all would like to weigh in on that during your discussions. I can tell you
that Prince William is 60 days, Stafford County is 60 days.
Reid: What are we?
Ackman: we have no limit today so if... For example if somebody
submitted a plan and it sat here for 10 years and the plan got picked back up, it
would be grandfathered under the current zoning ordinance even if the zoning
ordinance had changed. This kind of gives you a three -year window to stay
within our current regulations.
Reid: So we are doing 60 days too?
June 27, 2011
Ackman: We are doing six months. Number 10 is just simply a
clarification... There was a run -on paragraph that when I read it I couldn't
understand it. So I broke it down into bullet points.
The number 11 is very similar to the existing language... Terms that
may not be used anymore... The language was confusing, it didn't change the
intent of anything, it just made it clear.
In a nutshell, those are the 11 general topics.
Wright: I actually called Bill off-line to get some of the update. So the
bulk of these changes are administrative and not a lot of material changes. I
think the one change that you highlighted that seem to be somewhat material
was the site plan duration because I think as it exists today, if I get a site
plan... I have a case in point the 1980's shopping ctr. that just got built in front
of Fieldstone. So, when we adopt this, what happens to all of those site plans
that are on our managers report that have been sitting... That have been
approved, do they remain approved art is the clock start?
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Ackman: the way we wrote this, to be fair, it will be good for five years
from the date of adoption.
Wright: and what we be proactively communicating with the owners
of those site plans?
Ackman: we would go back to... Find this plans and notify those
property owners.
Wright: You mentioned the state code says the minimum is five years.
Is the maximum forever?
Ackman: Yes.
Wright: Can you walk me through kind of what some of the other
jurisdictions in our immediate area are doing?
Ackman: Everybody that I am aware of is five years... Fairfax, Prince
William, Loudoun, and Stafford.
Wright: I assume this went through the same process that your other
changes do... I forgot the name of your panel that...
Ackman: What we did, because these are more administrative changes
and not necessarily engineering changes, we did not necessarily put them
through the groups but what we did do is sent out email blasts to everybody
that had been attending those meetings and even those that don't and we gave
them our website... specifically where to click so they could open and look at
these and they were put on the website in PDF with redline, strikes and
underlining so it was very clear to them. We did have one engineer respond,
Joe Paciulli, and that's in the packet. Joe had some questions on the new
right -of -way dedication and easement plats, so we worked with him on those.
We were able to successfully come to resolution on every single one of his
issues. So, everybody.... So it was open to everybody. There are probably
over 100 people on the email blasts and only Mr. Paciulli responded.
Wright: Well someone responded, which means that someone read it.
Ackman: Yes.
Wright: Then, kind of the street standards... I think this came up at the
Planning Commission as well. My quick underlining... capitalize the word
"quick"... my quick read through this seems to indicate you haven't done
anything that would jeopardize or compromise our ability to react to local
conditions for street standards... is that....
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Ackman: Correct. Essentially... thank you for bringing that up.
Because one of the things that we did was.... Typically the planning
commission had sort of an override of certain layouts on how things look. It
was said in the current text... as currently approved text, it would require
planning commission approval. What we usually did as staff was try to work
through all the issues with public works and ourselves and the planning
department to make sure that the layout did meet everything and we made our
recommendations to the planning commission. So, that was their approval to
meet the ordinance. If we are taking the final approval and making it
administrative, if they varied at all, they would still have to come back to the
planning commission and we felt like that was sort of defeating the purpose of
what we were trying to accomplish to streamline the process. I am unaware of
any other jurisdiction that requires the preliminary plan to go through the
public process.
Wright: Right, but if I am... unfortunately the only examples that I can
come up with are capital projects ones, but pretend it's private sector... So if
I'm doing something in Lowenbach where I need narrower streets, maybe
sidewalks only on one side... Some change in kind of our standard cookie
cutter scenario, what would be the process for me to get that approval if this is
adopted?
Ac previously, you would've had no recourse.
Wright: Awesome.
Ac under the way it's written today, there is some verbiage in the
subdivision ordinance that gives the director of capital projects the authority to
make those types of decisions... What's best for the community. Let's use
capital projects as a good example. Let's say there was... Woodberry is a very
good example. That project was very difficult to get through plan review
because it says thou shall have sidewalks on both sides but the residents...
That criteria did not fit very well. My hands were tied by the ordinance, but
now under the new ordinance, the director of capital projects in coordination
with you all and the residents can make that call administratively.
Wright: So this is better.
Ackman: In my opinion, it's better.
Hammler: well, maybe because Kevin and I went to the planning
commissioner certification course together and had a great deal of input about
the perils of the DCSM around the state, he has already hit my hot buttons in
terms of whether it was something very specific around the town, less so my
reading it line by line, if you will. In other words, the strip mall that's in
Exeter that has had a great deal of discontent ever since it's gone up and it has
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remained empty as well as thinking back about the Lowenbach project and I
think it was actually one of the things that we wrote about during that course
was how can we change the Leesburg DCSM to accommodate a historic type
of neighborhood like Lowenbach. So, very happy to hear the answer to that.
The only additional kind of more process oriented follow -up recommendations
that I would have would be back to your feedback about Joe Paciulli... I know
that the EDC has been doing a terrific job really getting a pulse from... in their
case the business community as relates to business process improvements, but
to the extent that they might be involved in making sure that there is additional
outreach to any other developers so that we can continue to make
improvements on perception and reality that we are trying to streamline this
process. Just a thought because so many great ideas come out of the
certification course, it would be great just to contact the gentleman who runs
it... of course I can't remember his name, to see if there is any kind of creative
ideas or things that might have been coming up around the state that we could
think about in the next couple of weeks. I'm not sure we are going to vote on
it tomorrow, but if we have a little bit of time, we might get some more
creative ideas. But, thank you. I think that this is tremendous and I appreciate
all the hard work going through it.
Reid: Thanks Bill. Having the applicants taken advantage of the
accelerated site plan authority that we got from the legislature?
Ackman: what we have done, is we haven't had to formally adopt that
because of the way our new process works. We had... I'll bore you with a
quick story here. I sit on the board of directors for ESI and as we were talking I
had a Board of Directors meeting last week... And as we were talking we
started talking about the expedited review process and formalizing Leesburg's
to be more like other jurisdictions and Bill Fissell of Dewberry stepped up and
said "you know I think more jurisdictions should model what Leesburg does
because of the communication they have with the development community
and the meetings that they have and the open communication in lieu of
hosting things on a website without copy and trying to expedite how quickly
they get the comments out. Instead they are taking their time to make sure
they convey the comments properly which at the end of the day equates to a
shorter process in the long run There may be a little bit more time to get the
reviews done, but if you look at the time it was first submitted to the time it
was approved, the timeline tends to be shorter in Leesburg than other counties.
Reid: Is the county doing anything with the facilities standards manual
this summer? Are they doing any updates, or did they recently do one, or are
they about to do one?
Ackman: They will be, like us, updating the stormwater regulations
once the governor signs the new stormwater bill. We are anticipating October
or November on that.
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Reid: In terms of procedural stuff, are they doing anything with their...
they call it the FSM?
Ackman: Not that I am aware.
Reid: And they use a 60 day kick out?
Ackman: I'll have to check on that one. I don't remember.
Reid: See if you can find out by tomorrow. I would really like to know
what they are doing versus what we are doing. I would like to see some kind
of a side by side at least for the key points. The other concern that I had was
tree save. Is there anything in here... because that has really been the biggest
issue that I have concerns with... at least my neighbors have concerns with.
At least my neighbors have concerns with like the Walgreen's or with the
Sycolin Road widening a couple of years ago when a lot of the good trees were
torn down. Is there anything in here that would obviate that?
Ackman: No, that's more of a zoning ordinance requirement and from
the Tree Ordinance, that I believe was before you last year, I think it
highlighted some of the frustrations that staff had and Council shared with us,
is that state code says that...
Mayor: Enabling legislation...
Ac Enabling legislation, thank you... basically said "okay you
can ask a developer to save all of these trees and he can come back and say
no Then it is up to the jurisdiction to create a plan for the developer that
saves those trees. Then, if staff were to use our own resources or a consultant
to come up with that plan, present it back to the developer, he could tell us
basically "go pound sand" and there is nothing we could do.
Reid: but the thing about Walgreens is it was by right and a lot of those
requirements were because of drainage. It was a difficult site, they had elevated
as you know. So it's not just a zoning process. I'm just wondering if there's
something in here that we can do in the site plan process.
Ackman: the only process that I'm aware of that anybody has is the
rezoning process and the by right subdivisions and the by right site plans...
And I know it's not a popular thing to say, but there is just no state enabling
legislation that would give us the right to do that.
Reid: well, I guess I'm asking more of a situation where old growth is
being torn down in favor of new growth. That's what I'm concerned about. It's
an CIP projects and projects like the Walgreens where you have a lot of nice
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old growth there, but to meet the... Once again, I think they were those trees
down because of the town's drainage requirements. There's nothing really in
here that could help with that.
Mayor: there's nothing we could put in their legally under state law
that could help with that.
Reid: even if the applicant wanted to do something... If they wanted to
get an intervention for having to tear down the trees to put in a drainage pipe
or something.
Mayor: it depends on where you want all the floodwaters going.
Reid: yes, that's true. So the concern was I had was the number of
reviews... There are some projects here that seem to have gone through in
three submissions, at breakneck speed in some cases. The theater at the village
of Leesburg was only a month but there are some that have taken more than
six. Going back to page 12 here, the BB &T bank, Cornwall Commons, which
is the senior facility, they have been out there since 2009. What would happen
if these regulations went into effect? Would they be thrown out?
Ackman: they would have to ask for extensions. All of those projects
that you mention are basically sitting at signature sets waiting for bond to be
posted or plots to be recorded. Things that staff cannot control. That's all
between the developer and the owner and so what the new regulations would
require them to either post a bond, get the plan approved war ask for an
extension every six months or however you all would like to have them
perceive. Whether that six months, three months, 60 days or a year. That's
semantics, we can always...
Reid: do you think that... We were talking earlier today at the
groundbreaking about making it longer. Maybe we should make it shorter. Do
you think that would hurry them along better?
Ackman: I think six months is... I've been taught in the past, when I
was on the private sector side, I was caught up in the 60 day changes.
Occasionally you'll run up against plans that are just design challenges and it
just takes extra brainpower, extra thought. There may be another parcel that
has to be put on to that particular plan to make it work properly. There may be
in some cases, if it's a VDOT road that you're adjacent to, coordination with
VDOT. If there are utilities out there, that you are dealing with, trying to make
the best of the design with the least amount of utility relocation. I think it's
probably no secret that dealing with certain utility companies, I'm not going to
mention any by name, can be frustrating at times and can be very time
consuming. The six months seemed more reasonable to me than 60 days. So I
thought that was just a good average place to start.
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Reid: you mentioned these three, that I highlighted that are waiting for
signature sets, but if you look at the timeline you are still talking about in
many cases almost a year to go through the process. Can you explain what
happened with the senior houses are this bank or... I don't know what
crossroads of Leesburg is, why were they taking so long?
Ackman: those have been... We have done all of our reviews within
our specified time frames and often times, I think our average for first
submissions are about 45 days and we are allotted 60. Subsequent submissions
are 45 and we range between 30 and 45 on those reviews, depending on how
busy we are. Most of those projects that you mentioned, the plans have been
with the applicant. In fact, what we have started doing on more than one
occasion as we send out emails and notifications to those folks who have plans
that have been sitting around for two to three months. One in particular that
comes to mind is the one that we had a ground breaking on today. We sent
them two notifications throughout the process where for various reasons, they,
the applicant had those plans. We said how can we help you, what do you
need? On one occasion they actually came back and said, "gee, we could
really use your help on this which we did. We went back and helped them.
Another time, they were working with their bonding folks. So, just the last
one was working with the bonding folks and they actually told us that had they
not been able to get that plan approved a couple of weeks ago, they would
have lost a year because of how Chick -fil -A and how their construction process
goes and how they open the new stores and the timeframe. So, we try to do
those things where we... and I can give you a couple of other examples, if you
would like, where we do that, but there is just... that's the best explanation
that I can give you is that they, for whatever reason, the applicant is having
challenges either with the design or other things that are unforeseen that they
hang on to it. Perhaps it's financial, perhaps the market isn't hitting.
Reid: Well, that's true. And that's why the sunset clause concerns me.
A five year, and then you have to start all over again or what?
Ackman: At the end, if they were to get the plan approved after five
years... they wouldn't have anything for five years. At four years and 364
days, they could submit a one time extension for one more year and that
would put us... what I try to do sometimes is I try to look at what people
around us are doing and I try to throw in something that gives the impression
that we are trying to friendly.
Reid: Would this be retroactive?
Ackman: It would be as it would be effective the day of adoption, so for
example a plan that was approved... I can think of one that was approved
probably 15 or 20 years ago that is still sitting out there approved... and so that
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plan wouldn't automatically become voided. We would send that particular
developer a letter saying your site plan is vested for five years from the date of
adoption and at the end of five years...
Reid: You have got to send a certified notice.
Ackman: Yes, we would work with Jeanette on that to make sure we
have it correct.
Reid: Do you think that the five year sunset would encourage people to
build to get things moving. It's kind of like the BAR permit system, you know
if you don't act, you have got to go back.
Ackman: I have seen it go both ways. I can tell you from a personal
experience that the intersection of Old Ox Road and Rt. 28, there is a building
that was built by the Group out of Chicago because they were getting
ready to lose their vesting. Had they lost their vesting, they would have fallen
under a whole different set of stormwater regs. So, they physically went out
and built the building. Now it is about 20% leased. It was a business decision
on their part as to their long range plans for that building site. They said we
may eat this through the downturn, but we are going to recoup it in the long
run. Others will just say we don't have the financial resources to build it and
we can't get the loans. They would just have to start over.
Wright: Ken, can I follow on to your question?
Reid: I'm done.
Wright: The one thing where we were talking about that five year trip,
that's from when I bond it and get it fully signed.
Ackman: Yes.
Wright: so what you were describing before of folks that kind of get to
bond and park, you are saying they can get that six month renewal...
Ackman: Up to three years.
Wright: So, basically, if I think I am ready, I get to bond and park. I
can park for three years. Then it is like fine, bond it and then I get another six.
So, really if they are not going to be ready to build within nine years, they
probably have other issues that are outside of our control. Okay.
Dunn: Thank you. Katie mentioned going to the planning commission
training with Kevin. I had the honor to go to the training with the mayor. She
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was always the one to ask the instructor if he wanted the homework. She kept
us on our toes always. To beat this dead horse, five years would be our max.
Ackman: Yes, but it really becomes six. Because we have a one -year
extension.
Dunn: so in essence, it's on paper, initially that's our maximum. Five
year timeframe with some possibilities to extend... nine years or just one year.
In number three.... Actually, is it number four? It might be number four and
kind of along the same lines, number six. These are not required to go to the
planning commission... these activities are not required by state to have to go
to the planning commission?
Ackman: Correct.
Dunn: On number seven, what constitutes a mini -me site? You throw
mini out to me and I got all kinds of one liners here. Is it structurally
challenged or statutely challenged? But, really what constitutes a mini site?
Ackman: In a nutshell, when we first revamped what we were calling
site plans several years ago before our current town attorney was here, we
added a site plan waiver. The intent of that site waiver was to assist
homeowners as they were doing things like putting an oversized shed in their
back yard to make sure they don't put it in a drainage easement, putting in
swimming pools to make sure they don't grade onto their neighbors yard and
throw water where it is not supposed to go or you have residents standing
before you saying why did the town let them put this swimming pool or grade
their back yard and throw their water on me? It was just a way to make sure
that things that were being done in people's back yards were not causing
problems for their neighbors. That was the intent of it. Somewhere along the
line in the language it got changed up. I'm not sure how that happened, but it
did and there became a very area and what became a minor site plan and
what became a site plan waiver. A site plan waiver had a fee at the time of...,
I think it was $200. Some folks would come with some very large additions to
commercial properties under the site plan waiver... that was never the intent.
What this did was allow us to capture and better define the true intent of the
site plan waiver that basically is something that helps the residents. It's very
cost efficient. It's not going to break their bank. It's not going to ruin their
project. At the same level, it allows us to capture the smaller types of site plans
based on square footage and disturbance of dirt up to a certain amount and do
that as a mini site plan. What that does is helps the guys that are out there
doing a small site plan or even the developers that are building a single house
or up to two houses. It gives them an opportunity where the fee matches the
scope of what they are trying to do without getting into a minor site plan
which is twice the cost. In a nutshell, we tried to come up with... maybe mini
site plan wasn't the right term.
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plan.
Dunn: You might check the PC book on that one. Maybe auxiliary site
Ackman: Yes. But we tried to make sure the scope of the project
matched.
Dunn: Number nine, why not shorter than six months. I know you
mentioned wanting to throw something out there, but you mentioned other
locations are doing sixty days. It doesn't require the applicant to use the whole
six months. They can take 30 days if they want to. But, what is the thinking
between what other jurisdictions are doing for that four month difference?
Ackman: for me, it was just personal experience, that 60 days
sometimes isn't enough and then...
Dunn: what would happen at the end of the six months that is
happening in those jurisdictions at the end of 60 days? If the applicant is not
ready.
Ackman: They would have to start over.
Dunn: completely? Okay.
Ackman: Often times, they go in and beg and plead and get the
extension, but technically...
Dunn: that's where they come in and ask for a mini extension. Maybe
we should call it that, mini extension.
Ackman: but they also gave up the four extensions, most of them,
maybe it's five, where they say you can only extend five times. We are trying
to be... based on personal experience, when I was on the private sector side, I
just thought that six months would give me enough time to just about address
any type of an engineering question... engineering issue... give the applicant
time to deal with the things he has to deal with on his end. It just seemed an
appropriate time to me personally. That's the only reason why it is there.
Dunn: Are they able to request extensions of the six months?
Ackman: Yes, up to three years, so they could do six extensions.
Dunn: Six extensions? Okay.
Ackman: We aren't trying to run anybody out of town. We are just
trying to keep them... like I said, at the end of the day we don't have
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something that is vested under today's zoning ordinance that a year from now
when we make zoning ordinance changes and everything around it gets built
to the current standard and they are still holding under yesterday's standards.
That was the thought.
Martinez: Just for a little more clarification, how would the
commercial strip mall over in Exeter, if these had been in place, how would
these have impacted them?
Ackman: I can only guestimate, I guess.
Martinez: That's fine. I am just looking for the impact if somebody
else was to come down the road and wait ten years, what they would have to
go through.
Ackman: They would have... had they decided to keep that
application active, they would have had to apply for extensions. Once they got
to that three year extension, they would have had to make a business decision
as to do I bond this project and get it final approved, or do I just set it aside
and say "I don't have any foreseeable tenants and my proforma is not working,
so I'm just going to start over That would have been one option.
Martinez: So they would have had five years, plus three. They would
have had eight years to make a business decision.
Ac now during those three years of extensions any changes that
come up in the DCSM, engineering changes, they would have to address
unless they were specifically grandfathered.
Martinez: not many of those changes applied during the second
extension, with that five -year start all over again?
Ackman: well, once they were approved and bonded then they are
approved regardless of any changes to the zoning ordinance or DCSM. So for
five years, any time that five -year block, let's call it six with a one -year
extension, they wouldn't have to do anything as long as they put a show on the
ground and started work, then they would be grandfathered.
Martinez: if you want, I can do another 45 min.
Mayor: that's such a kind offer and I'd love to accept it but we might
get run out of the room on a rail.
Martinez: I'm actually done. Just one question on the document itself.
I noticed that... Is it a softcopy version that was put in PDF?
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Ackman: it was scanned.
Martinez: all 267 pages were scanned?
Ackman: not all of it. The DCSM version was scanned. The SLDR
was transformed.
Martinez: so that means we don't have a softcopy of the one part.
Ackman: I do have a soft copy, but if I tried to put it up on the web...
if I tried to convert it from a word to a PDF because it started in WordPerfect
many, many years ago, and then went to Microsoft Word, whenever I try to
convert it to a PDF, the formatting goes haywire. So the only way to PDF
that particular document is to scan it. Someday when we have the time, we
will probably retype it and put it into Microsoft Word so that we can have a
real, living... I mean it is still a living document. I can update it in Word and
provide the code...
Martinez: it's just a shame that today you have to scan all bunch...
Ackman: It's just the DCSM portion of it.
Mayor: just to be this dead horse a little bit more, on the Exeter strip
mall if this change had been in effect and if we had in the meantime
implemented form -based code, would that it had any impact on the possible
design that they would've had they gone to had they not done something
within the five years or are we solely talking storm water management
systems. Are we talking basic design of the project on the site plan, you know
where the building goes or are we stuck with sort of more fundamental storm
water, street standards?
Ackman: good question. It's going to depend on how much testing is
written for the form -based code. If the form -based code is like a lead, staff may
recommend... We haven't really gotten in to the should staff recommend
that... if a plan is already in and there has been a substantial amount of effort
and dollars put forth to the plan, it should be grandfathered, then you would
probably have a very similar plan. If staff or to recommend that any plan that's
not approved by a date certain, isn't approved, then it would have to fall under
form -based code type of review then it comes down to two vesting in debates.
Mayor: even with these changes, these changes can't really save us
from decisions that were made 20 years ago to allow a commercial center there
as part of a rezoning. Okay, so we can fix every problem with this but maybe
we can fix some.
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Wright: and to that point just from an expectation setting, if someone
has a concept plan that shows a strip, if the site plan lapses, the concept plan is
going to rule on the rezoning and they are still going to have a site plan with
whatever the strip is. And it's best conformance to current standards but the
number one rule is it has to conform with the underlying zoning, if it's concept
plan zoning.
Ackman: and it would be grandfathered under the rezoning, yes.
Reid: I would like to ask the question if we are all comfortable with the
six month and the five years. Are we all comfortable with that? Anybody
want to change that, shorten it, increase it?
Mayor: If you shorten the six months, would that not be perceived by
the business community as making life harder for them?
Reid: But it's sixty days in other jurisdictions.
Mayor: But if six months is what the business community, especially in
this economy feels it needs to iron out all the problems....
Reid: I was actually talking about going to one year, but if you can
come back to what the county is doing. I would love to see what they are
doing.
Ac I will let you know on that.
Reid: But it seems like we are mostly comfortable with the way it is.
Dunn: A possibility could be if we were to go with, say, a 60 day of
maybe allowing for more extensions. Instead of just six extensions, allow
whatever would be for, say, three years. So we are not going as far out as....
Well, right now, we are at 36 months... so if we would like it to be sped up,
maybe allow for more extensions, but only allow it to go for a year and a half.
In other words, our goal is we can go sixty days or ninety days, but you can
have ten extensions instead of just six or six months.
Mayor: Right, if what we are trying... and that would work if what we
are trying to do is make the business community speed up, which would be the
net impact of that. The six months allows the business community to go as
fast as they want, but it gives them more time if they feel they need it.
Wright: I would not want to go shorter. Right now, it is whenever...
so to go from whenever to 60 days, I think that is going to cause some angst,
especially with the extension process. Because someone's got to get the
extension, acknowledge the extension, register... We're just creating a lot of
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Council Work Session June 27, 2011
paperwork that I don't think we need to create. The plans they go out for ad
infinitem, I think we need to resolve, but I'm comfortable with six. I would
honestly be comfortable with 12, so I would be interested to see the answer to
Ken's question as to what the County is doing. I would not be comfortable
making it shorter than what is proposed.
Ken: will we could try six months and see what happens.
Wright: six-month I'm okay with, but I'm interested to see with the
County is doing because I don't want to...
Ackman: they might not have anything right now, I just don't
remember. I meant to check and I didn't, so shame on me. But I will come
back.
Wright: Now you are being punished.
b. FY 2012 Town Work Plan
Wells: Council members receive the e -mail earlier today... An
electronic version of our update... you also have a hard copy in your binders
of this as well. Two documents, one is the town council strategic initiatives
and objectives for FY11, status update as of today. Then, also a draft project
work plan for FY 12. It's marked as draft, not because the Council needs to
vote on it, because in a sense you've already provided direction and your work
program as part of the budget process, more so in terms of what level of detail
I have provided. They're certainly more that we are all doing than just this list.
I highlighted these based on the level of involvement, either at the Council
level are internally at the staff level in terms of their significance. I have
identified project estimated completion dates were significant work by quarter.
We haven't answered any questions that you have, I recognize this came out
late today, we are not necessarily in a position to have a discussion, but we are
also not looking for votes. We will continue to refine this as a way that we can
track this along the way. You might want to take a minute, if we could, and
I'll definitely beat the 45 min. If you look at the FY 11 list, the two -page list, I
think it's important for Council to recognize the amount of projects we have
completed this year. I'll just go quickly through the list. The sign ordinance
was completed, the user fees were... Study was done and the Council adopted
those and put them in place prior to this year's budget. Final direction was
provided on the form -based code, setting the implementation date in March.
Staff is working on that effort. The Mason Enterprise center opened in a
temporary location. We will be having a hardhat tour this coming Thursday at
4:30 and it will open on September 1. The availability fees, counsel has taken
one recommendation from the URAC in terms of extending the time and we
will note that later. Council have some other decisions to make in terms of
what efforts URAC will undertake potentially tomorrow. Establishing long-
term budget sustainability, certainly that has been taking care of in terms of the
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adoption of the budget and a long -range plan. Mdm. Mayor and I will provide
an update after we finish all the bond rating visits after this week and provide
some feedback on what we have heard and learned. Downtown CIP, counsel
has provided direction to staff to evaluate the project details and bring back
cost estimates and issues there. The current Loudoun PPEA was withdrawn by
the applicant, although there is alternate proposals to look at actually selling
the property that have been ongoing for bit of time. Worked with the board
and commissions on goals and objectives was completed. Upcoming efforts
with the transportation Summit and work session on youth issues, I jumped
ahead, in between, we have significant ongoing efforts working with potential
buyers for the Barber and Ross property and that's a very active effort. I should
say actively working with potential buyers, plural. There have been multiple
inquiries and we are working with everybody. The bike and ped plan was
completed and we will continue to look at implementation opportunities and
availability fees, as I noted, we have already gotten some positive feedback
from a number of businesses that have inquired and taken advantage of the
extension time from having to pay all at once to a 2 to 5 year repayment plan.
Working toward the completion of Sycolin overpass with federal grants.
Actually that will turn into work toward completion of Sycolin overpass with
state monies. As soon as that gets put into the state six year plan, we can mark
that as completed. That should be coming up within the next 60 days. We
met with the Board of Supervisors on their legislative agenda, trying to
schedule a future meeting with them. We will have to look at some alternate
dates there. Certainly one of the big projects we have coming up next year and
this will be an ongoing effort dealing with the stormwater management issues
and all of the environmental and legal issues tied with that. Again, the
contractual services list, we completed as part of the budget process. We are
retooling our community enhancement team in light of some of the budget
reductions and pending some issues at the county level, looking to reinstitute
annexation discussions. That's the list that was originally put in place and
modified by Council. That's how it looks on June 27 at this point, in terms of
those projects. Obviously, things that haven't been completed will carry over
automatically into 12 unless you stop us. Then, the 12 list, this took a little bit
of effort. This is the first time we have compiled either items from Council
approvals and agenda meetings, budget documents. What we have attempted
to do here... again, I won't go through all of these, but will give you the
opportunity to look at these at your leisure and get back with me if you see
anything you think was missed or maybe the way I worded includes something
else. I would be happy to try to refine this so we can track, just like we did
FY11, we will track our progress on FY12 again on a regular basis. I think the
key point to take a look at is the length of the list. It's much more substantial
than what we had in 11. Again, I have changed the level of reporting because
a number of these are more internal but they are fairly significant and could
ultimately turn into discussion items with Council at a later time.
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So, again, apologies for getting this out late, but this needed to take
second place behind the bond rating visits today. We did get it out and we
don't need to have any or as much discussion as you would like to have. We
have the remaining 30 minutes of the other item, and 45 here and we can...
Wright: A couple of comments. The first one, I guess this is more of
an administrative comment, but do we have three closed sessions tomorrow
night or is that a carryover?
Wells: There will be three closed sessions tomorrow night. We would
have done them tonight, but Mrs. Irby needs to be there for those.
Wright: Looking at the draft work plan, just real quickly. A couple of
things that jump out. The legislative package, you have in parentheses,
September. I thought we were targeting July /August to try to be in sync
with...
Wells: We are going to start that. I think you will actually vote in
September. We are not going to start in September. We are actually
developing a list right now.
Wright: Because the main thought process there is to be able to jump
ahead with the VML committees and get it on theirs. Specifically, I know that
Katie has already been working on this, getting the Cornerstone item into
legislation.
Wells: Anything we can do along those lines to start items earlier, I
don't know that we necessarily need to have the entire package approved. But
if we do have targeted items, we can certainly push those forward. I would be
happy... August might be... we don't meet in August really as a practical
matter.
Wright: Just so long as we are taking the note that we are doing the
work with VML and all that stuff early so we are not finding ourselves behind.
Wells: We aren't starting in September. We should end in September.
Wright: The other item... I see we have talked a couple of times about
the courthouse, the county courts expansion and all of that. We have
screamed a couple of times... it seems like the theme. The county gets ready
to do something with great impact. We say you need to have a charette. You
need to work with the community and nothing happens. They are going to do
that, or do we need to start writing letters?
Wells: We probably need to start writing letters, but I would let them...
they are doing a traffic analysis right now because we have identified for them
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some very particular challenges even at minimal levels of expansion. There
are some things that I think would be problematic unless they can be
substantiated with a traffic study. A lot of the issues may be moot, until we
can see that report, but I would recommend that we be ready to engage in
more direction discussion with the board very shortly.
Wright: And is the courthouse square parking garage part of the
courthouse or private development? All the way over on January /March
2012?
Mayor: Is that the Times Mirror?
Wells: That's the Times Mirror.
Wright: That's all that jumped out at me, although I did put a smiley
face on the ongoing theme that everything seems to revolve around Chick -fil -A
as far as popularity in the town, if you will note on October /December second
column, Chick -fil -A opens. I thought I would just sneak that in there.
Wells: That was actually the last thing we added, just because it didn't
seem complete without putting Chick -fil -A on the list. We have no other
openings other than that one because I think that's the only one anybody cares
about based on the feedback I have heard all day today. We have tracked it,
and we won't lose track of it.
Hammler: My best friend, Diedre Irby, thanks you who is a Chick -fil -A
marketing director in Sterling for all the great publicity. Just a couple of
comments. Thank you so much. It's great to bring things like this forward so
we can take a step back and not only look strategically but align it to the
calendar. So, I was trying very to do all that. A couple of things that jumped
out at me, were under the budget category. I was very happy to see that you
highlighted the health insurance bid package for fiscal year 13. That is a huge
line item and something that is... something we have to really start tackling
aggressively because we don't have the economies of scale at the town level
and that's a big budget item.
Wells: What we would hope to do in that particular case, unlike what
we have done in the past prior to even issuing that bid, I would expect coming
back with Council and talk about what other options and framework we would
be going out to bid so whenever it comes to you, you are more involved on the
front end than just simply us saying "we bid it out and this is the low bid I
think there are some ways that the bid and the services might be looked at
optionally this year rather than having Council hear about that at the end, we
ought to talk about that at the time.
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Hammler: That's tremendous, so thank you very much for that. Also,
under budget, which I don't see on the list, is the issue of the Loudoun
Museum. So, determining at what point we are going to continue to maintain
that building, what it's future is. So, tally that one up there.
Wells: That's a good addition. We have talked about that.
Hammier: On level, we need to think about Balch. I know that the
endowment is up for discussion, but I guess we could look at that a couple of
ways. Just FYI for Council, the Balch Library Commission did have it's
strategic meeting. They are continuing to sift through all the great ideas, but
one of them was doing a better a job of orchestrating some of the marketing
efforts across all of the great assets, such as the Loudoun Museum, Dodona,
the Journey through Hallowed Ground. There has been some great feedback
from some of these other organizations. Almost putting everything under the
umbrella of lifelong learning for citizens so to the extent that we can marry
up the endowment with really making these much more meaningful for
citizens. So, just FYI on that. That lead me to thinking about George Mason
University. That has sort of fallen off, but to the extent that I think there is still
an opportunity to think about an honors college or even sort of an engineering
outpost or annex, that is such as significant initiative at the state level. If you
look at the jobs commission report, things that need to make a difference at the
local level. It's all about work force development, aligning with the
universitys. So, to the extent that we can keep that on our radar, I think that
would helpful. Plus, there are a couple of key projects that we could get
Mason involved in, whether it is mobile applications or bike /pedestrian, or
things like that. The big one that I would like us to put on there is the feedback
and research on city status, which I think was going to come up.... I just
missed it.
Wells: It's in the first quarter. About halfway down on the first
column.
Mayor: July /September.
Wells: Fiscal impact of annexation /city status.
Hammler: Perfect, thank you.
Wells: It will be two pieces, but doing one leads you pretty close... the
work is similar.
Hammler: Just the last couple of things I will mention tonight... I will
spend more time going through this in detail based on my strategic planning
notes, is I was looking at the transportation summit realizing that I know there
are other groups around the state that are also trying to do the same thing,
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whether it's the state chamber of commerce, as an example. So take a look at
what others might be doing. Just as importantly, to the extent that we could
zero in on something very specific, I am thinking about the great report that
Senator Herring did, it really zeroed in on Route 7. Perhaps we could say, we
really need to have this summit about Route 15 bypass on Friday night and the
implications for even something as specific as why we don't have another
entry way exit to the outlets. You know there are certain things that are
significant quality of life issues on a very systematic basis. Just a suggestion.
Wells: If I may, if you notice under the transportation summit under
October through December, that was the second item in the second column. I
put down suggest deletion. I would suggest that in the absence of a clearer
direction, because when this was originally put on the table, two of the things
that we were working towards and lobbying for have been taken care of, which
is the flyover, the climbing lane and Battlefield parkway across Meadowbrook.
So, the point is, if we want to do this, we need a new purpose for what that
would be. It is sitting back a little bit later in the year. I think that gives us
some time. In the absence of that, I don't know that we have a tight agenda at
this point. We have time to refine that.
Hammier: That is a great point, but that would be my suggestion is
those are three tremendous successes coming up that we have possible
outcomes for, if all goes well, but that does not mean that we have fixed the
bike /ped and everything else. That leads me to the final thought, which is this
recurring idea of better communication and outreach because there really has
been so many great news and success stories to talk about. It is heartening for
me when I go into even a doctor's office and I see the Leesburg calendar up.
You know, there are so many different ways that we can think about what else
can be listed. Like those are the successes for the year before that are listed for
the upcoming year for the next calendar. I think it would be great if there were
a message from the Mayor and the town Council were in there. Perhaps we
could even think about doing a quarterly letter to the editor. Ideas that would
fall under communication that would illustrate all the great stuff that's going
on.
Butler: a few small things, one under the new lighting for the parking
garage, I hope that will include signage.
Wells: Yes.
Butler: both internal and...
Wells: Yes, lighting was a bigger cost item, but signage is part of it.
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Butler: signage would have the bigger impact. The traffic light and
Hope and Sycolin, last time I talked to Calvin, he said it was going to go live
on June 20, and it didn't go live on June 20. So I'm hoping that it's really soon.
Wells: what I have been told, is that it will go live no later than the end
of July. It could go earlier. Part of the issue was getting the power company to
hook it up.
Butler: I think that is happened.
Wells: that has now happened. There is now some calibration that has
to occur and then there's the flashing process. Worst -case scenario, end of July.
Likelier earlier than that.
Butler: if you hear of a councilmember in my neighborhood getting
hung in effigy because he is lying about this, let me know. I probably won't be
able to let you know. The new council orientation, April to June. What is
that?
Wells: Typically every two years when the new council...
Hammler: We will update that in November.
Wells: After a new Council is elected, between the election time and
the time that the Council takes their seats, we usually try to put together a brief
program to identify the mechanics of...
Butler: Okay, so this is for the newly elected, but not yet seated
Council. Got it. Obviously, it could be November /December, if necessary.
One thing, before I get to the last and most important thing. Are you going to
be able to get all this done with 28 fewer people, or whatever?
Wells: Obviously, it's challenging. One of the reasons I wanted to
provide a complete list is we want to be mindful going forward. I think we can
do what's on this list, I'm not as worried about what list is, as I am about what
else might come up down the road over the next several months. I don't know
what those things might be. But, one of the things that I would like to do is
report to you, not that we have to verbally go through a report, but I could
easily provide updates on this on a monthly basis so if things are slipping off
anywhere we would be able to identify those earlier on. As I am sitting here, I
can't tell you we can't get this done, but I will be more clear when new items
are brought forward that there may be an impact or we may have to make
some choices between additional items being added as opposed to what the
Council has already directed. Basically, this is fresh out of the budget. This is
what you have directed at this point. Unless you stop me, this is what the
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organization will be working on and bringing back to you. Some things we do
on our own, but others we bring back.
Butler: I think it would be helpful for Council, on the off chance...
Council brings up things as additions to future council meetings that you let us
know which ones of these items are going to be pushed back in order to add
the new additions.
Wells: I'll be clear on that.
Butler: Last, and probably most important. I have two items about
Chick -fil -A.
Wells: I was going to add a whole page, a Chick -fil -A category.
Butler: One, in the Dave being an irritant column. Chick -fil -A, there
are two "c"s in chick and the "f" in fil is lower case. I want to make sure we
don't run afoul of the law, which we happen to do on occasion.
Wells: Is the "a" capitalized? It's an honest question.
Butler: The "A" is capitalized. Yes. For hungry council members, I
just want to let you know if there is a Chick -fil -A somewhere that is close
enough for you to frequent, July 8 if you dress like a cow, you get a free meal.
If you dress partially like a cow, you at least get a free entree. That's
absolutely true. I don't know why July 8, but maybe you can go to their
website and they will provide the detail you are looking for. Other than that, I
think it's a great list.
Reid: Transportation summit, you suggest deletion, like you don't
want to do it?
Wells: I just think when we initially started talking, we had some ideas
in mind that have been addressed. I think that Mrs. Hammler's point about if
we are going to do it, lets focus it and focus on particular items. The
challenge, I think, of bringing a large group together without a very clear
agenda, is not going to lead to anything in particular.
Reid: Katie mentioned the senator's task force report, which was long
on wishes, but not very detailed on how to fund it. That's really what the key
thing is. I addressed the task force and that's more of a regional thing. I mean
it certainly affects Leesburg. I think what I would like to see, John, is just
regular updates from Capital Projects on where these projects are so we don't
have to ask for them. I really think that... I know that a lot of you get this big
binder here and everything. I am very upset with the Virts Corner delay. Now
we are being told that the light on Hope is going to be delayed. The
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commonwealth transportation board folks, Mr. Wells probably has a report on
this, approved our funding for Tavistock Drive and Sycolin Road intersection;
however, it stayed so that it won't be constructed for two years and I think he
is going to be looking at some ways that we can accelerate that. That to me is
the big concern. The same with Sycolin Road, the overpass. You know we
were not kept to date on what was happening with the environmental study
and it wasn't until 2009 or 8, I guess, when we realized that we had Battlefield
completely funded that the state hadn't issued any contract to do the
environmental study. That set us back. I think that is really what we need is a
standard memo every month or every two months so we don't get caught
behind and we can at least let the public know because Virt's Corner is
something that really bugs me. That bugs me that we can't... that the utility
relocation has held that up. The other thing is the garage, John. I thought you
were going to try to automate the garage.
Wells: That's still out there. We are going to look at that after we get
past some of the basic ideas of what we want to do with the downtown. I
don't want to initiate... we are still moving forward with the...
Reid: Like charging for parking on the weekend?
Wells: I need to bring that back to Council for a vote. We are taking
that a step at a time. At this point, the budget didn't assume anything and I
think it's an ongoing discussion that we need to have. Right now, we just
want to make the garage a friendlier place.
Reid: Well that's true. There is also the idea that Sola Palotta had to
have the student's paint the poles or murals. I don't know how she can do
that.
Wells: We are working with the public art commission but murals isn't
necessarily...
Reid: She wanted a George Marshall floor. She wanted different
floors. The Arthur Godfrey floor.
Wells: There are some artistic ideas, but I don't know that murals
was... we will work with the commission.
Reid: The Balch... I hope we don't keep kicking this too far. To me, I
think that we have to devote some legal time to get it set up. The Friends are
volunteers... librarians are librarians.
Wells: If I can be very clear on the intention of the item that is listed
for October /December, that is a staff driven effort as opposed to having it go
to... we will work with the Friends, but this would be something...
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Reid: They have their fundraiser in September.. they easily net $10-
15K every year plus we have the bequethment. What's the hexagram?
Wells: That is the program that allows you at your home to identify
your water usage so that when residents say "wait a minute, I didn't think I
used that much water because I wasn't in town that week they can pull up on
their own computer and identify, along with us, what the usage was. We can
resolve many disputes over the phone as opposed to necessarily waiting until
there is a bigger problem. Somebody has a leak and instead of it going on for
months and months, people can look at that.
Dunn: Looking at most of the stuff that was done, over half of the
items are complete so it sounds like we really need to load you up with more.
wrong.
Wells: I thought you did a pretty good job with that. Maybe I'm
Dunn: It sounds like we have also gone to add upcoming council
meetings... I am just going to mention one thing that I don't know if this
is... I called you on it a couple of weeks ago, but I notice that it has been
happening more. That is the short cycling of the light at Fort Evans. It is
really causing traffic to back up from northbound traffic... southbound traffic.
I don't know why it is happening, but it is really backing up.
Wright: it did it again today. It was doing it at lunch time today. I just
thought it was fluke.
Dunn: Coming from the north into town? In other words, you are
coming down?
Wright: Yeah.
Dunn: It's just causing... you are having to sit through it almost five
cycles. Albeit, they are shorter cycles, but that's not the intent. They are only
lasting about 23 seconds or so.
Wells: I know they have been to make some adjustments, but
obviously we are not getting it right.
Dunn: Is it to try to eliminate some of the traffic that is hitting
around... I know that if you don't watch it, it will stack up at the Sheetz and
you got cars... of course no body sits and lets people go through. They sit in
the intersection. But anyway... that's all I had.
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Council Work Session June 27, 2011
Martinez: One of the things that we talked about, John, that's not on
here that is something I think we need to talk... we mentioned was the Tolbert
Road by Freedom Park. We wanted to turn that more into a parking
memorial to John Tolbert. That's not on there. I think that's something that
we wanted to conceptually talk about in the future. Also, Loretta Watkins, I
understood that she takes the bus a lot and where she is at and catches the bus,
there is no shelter on King Street. A bus shelter for not just her, but the people
that take the bus down there.
Mayor: What is that, Harrison Park? Remind me, what is the name of
that park? Georgetown! Are you thinking maybe on the park side or...
Martinez: Wherever it is convenient for people to be able... I would
not want it on the King Street side because then it would be backing traffic up.
I will say that on the bypass, whether you are going north or south, the
entrance to Fort Evans Road is always going to be busy, for at least two
months. I wonder why? Anyway, that's all I got. I am sure as we go through
here, there is i'nore we could put on your plate. We have just got to remember
not to ask for seconds.
2. Additions to Future Council Meetings
Council Member Butler:
1. Appointment to the Tree Commission tomorrow night to Consent.
Council Member Dunn asked that it not be added to Consent.
2. Do Downtown Improvements include trees on Loudoun Street? South
side or north? Mr. Dentler stated he believes there are some on both
sides. Council Member Butler stated he had a specific request to not
have a tree in front of 7 Loudoun Street, S.E.
Council Member Reid requested:
1. That F G be taken off Consent for tomorrow night, but have it
directly after the Consent agenda. He stated he has some questions.
2. A follow -up on Lyme disease /mosquito spraying.
3. West Market Street: Can VDOT tell us whether they have any plans or
whether there is any need to extend the eastbound acceleration lane?
4. Requested that elected officials who wish to speak as petitioners be
moved to the top of the list.
Council Member Dunn:
1. Why does Linden Hill need to be on Closed Session since Council will
not be discussing dollar amounts? Mr. Wells stated there was a
specific discussion that Ms. Irby felt was necessary.
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Council Work Session June 27, 2011
3. Adjournment
On the motion of Council Member Martinez, seconded by Vice Mayor
Wright, the meeting was adjourned at 8:55 p.m.
Clerk of Cot}ncil
2011_tcwsmin062U
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