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HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 51 - Transcript of May 8, 2018 Public HearingTRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 1Page 1Page 1Page 1 1 IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS 2 STATE OF MISSOURI 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT RATE COMMISSION 10 11 12 PUBLIC HEARING 13 14 15 16 17 MAY 8, 2018 6:00 p.m. 18 19 20 21 22 SUNSET HILLS COMMUNITY CENTER 23 3915 SOUTH LINDBERGH 24 ST. LOUIS, MO 63107 25 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 2Page 2Page 2Page 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District Rate Commission: 4 Paul Brockmann 5 Steve Mahfood Paul Ziegler 6 Don Bresnan 7 MSD Executive Director and CEO: 8 Brian Hoelscher, P.E. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Court Reporter: Georgia Beth Long, CCR/CSR 23 Missouri CCR #622 Illinois CSR #084-004742 24 Alaris Litigation Services 711 North Eleventh Street 25 St. Louis, Missouri 63101 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 3Page 3Page 3Page 3 1 MR. BROCKMANN: Good evening. My name is Paul 2 Brockmann, and I'm a member of the Metropolitan St. 3 Louis Sewer District Rate Commission. I will be 4 presiding over the public hearing this evening. 5 With me tonight are the following MSD Rate 6 Commission members. To my left is Steve Mahfood. To 7 his left is Mr. Paul Ziegler. Mr. Don Bresnan had car 8 problem and should be here shortly. 9 The charter plan for the district was amended at 10 a general election of November 7, 2000, and established 11 the rate commission to review and make recommendations 12 to the district regarding changes in wastewater rates, 13 stormwater rates, and tax rates proposed by the 14 district. 15 The charter plan required MSD Board of Trustees 16 to select organizations to ensure a fair representation 17 of all users of the district's services on the rate 18 commission. 19 The rate commission's representative 20 organizations are to represent commercial and industrial 21 users, residential uses, and other organizations 22 interested in the operation of the district; including 23 organizations focusing on environmental issues, labor 24 issues, socioeconomic issues, community neighborhood 25 organizations, and other non-for-profit organizations. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 4Page 4Page 4Page 4 1 The MSD Rate Commission currently consists of 15 2 members from organizations and institutions throughout 3 St. Louis City and County. 4 On February 26, 2018, the Rate Commission 5 received a rate change notice, proposing changes to the 6 district's stormwater rates. The Rate Commission 7 adopted operational rules and a procedural schedule to 8 govern the proceedings on March 4, 2018. 9 Under the current procedural schedule adopted the 10 Rate Commission, the MSD Rate Commission has until June 11 26, 2018 to review and make a recommendation to the MSD 12 Board of Trustees as to whether the proposed rates 13 should be approved, not approved, or modified with 14 suggested changes and then approved. 15 The commission requested an extension from the 16 MSD Board of Trustees until August 10, 2018, which was 17 granted on May 1st, 2018. The commission will consider 18 on May 17, 2018 a new revised procedural schedule, 19 including the extension. 20 The MSD Rate Commission has engaged legal counsel 21 and a rate consultant, independent of those used by MSD 22 staff. 23 Under procedural rules adopted by the Rate 24 Commission as amended, an person affected by the rate 25 change proposal had an opportunity to submit an TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 5Page 5Page 5Page 5 1 application to intervene these proceedings. 2 An application to intervene has been filed by the 3 Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers. This application 4 has been granted. 5 Since February 26, 2018, the MSD Rate Commission 6 has received testimony from MSD staff, the rate 7 consultant, and interveners. The parties have engaged 8 in discovery requests. 9 A prehearing conference for the purpose of 10 identifying any issues raised by the rate setting 11 documents and the prepared testimony previously 12 submitted will be conducted on the record. 13 All persons submitting testimony may participate 14 in the prehearing conference. And each participant in 15 the prehearing conference shall submit a prehearing 16 conference report, describing the issues raised by the 17 rate setting documents and the prepared testimony, 18 together with a brief description of each participant's 19 position, if any, on each issue, and the rationale 20 therefore. 21 Ratepayers who do not wish to intervene are 22 permitted to participate in these on-the-record public 23 hearings conducted in six sessions, beginning this 24 evening on May 8th. 25 The Rate Commission published a public notice TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 6Page 6Page 6Page 6 1 regarding these proceedings in St. Louis Post-Dispatch 2 and in the St. Louis American. These notices contain 3 the time, dates, and locations of each of the 4 conferences and hearings. 5 The public hearing session tonight is for the 6 purpose of permitting the district to present a 7 stormwater rate change proposal, and to permit any rate 8 payer an opportunity to comment. 9 We will begin with a presentation by the 10 district, followed by a public comment period. 11 Those wishing to speak should sign in on the 12 sheet provided, and will be called in the order of the 13 names listed thereon. 14 Each ratepayer should identify themselves, and 15 any organization represented by such ratepayer. 16 Several housekeeping rules before we begin. If 17 you wish to present testimony, please be sure to sign in 18 on the clipboard in the rear. Speakers will be 19 recognized in the order in which they sign up. 20 Each ratepayer may have a maximum of 10 minutes 21 to speak, regarding the proposed rate change. As the 22 presiding officer, a I can limit or expand this time, 23 should I deem it necessary. 24 Couple of other housekeeping issues. The 25 restrooms are located out the doors, down the hallway to TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 7Page 7Page 7Page 7 1 you right. And exits are both out these doors and to 2 you right or to your left as you enter the building. 3 Is there any questions regarding this procedure 4 this evening? Hearing none, is the district ready to 5 proceed? 6 MS. RUEMMLER: I was wondering if you had -- if 7 you were going to have a handout, and if you have a 8 listing of the areas and things like that. 9 MR. BROCKMANN: I'll let the MSD rate 10 representative address that. I'm certain that we can 11 follow up with your request if necessary. 12 MR. HOELSCHER: It was a request for what? 13 MS. RUEMMLER: Well, I was thinking that perhaps, 14 since we're here to see what's going to happen, that you 15 might have the various areas, whether or not they're all 16 going to go up the same, if they're different, so we can 17 see where we fall. 18 MR. HOELSCHER: So let us go forward. You're 19 going to find that we're proposing a service level 20 that's the same for the entire district. 21 MS. RUEMMLER: Okay. 22 MR. HOELSCHER: So if after that, you have those 23 questions, we'll see if there's something -- 24 MS. RUEMMLER: I saw something in the paper. It 25 looked like some people got a huge raise, and other TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 8Page 8Page 8Page 8 1 people less. So I didn't know. 2 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. I think, let us go through 3 this. And I think you'll find we will answer your 4 questions in the presentation. If not, ask us after. 5 MR. BROCKMANN: Any other questions? 6 A. I wanted to know if after your presentation, may 7 we have questions? 8 MR. BROCKMANN: Absolutely. We'll have a comment 9 period. So MSD will make a presentation, and after 10 that, you can ask questions then, and/or comment. All 11 right. I'm sorry, sir. 12 MR. BROWN: Yeah, pursuant to what that lady 13 said, I have no idea what's going to happen here. If 14 you had a page or a two-page handout, maybe. 15 But I'm totally ignorant of what you're doing 16 here, other than you're trying to tax us for money and 17 give us services. But I don't know what else. 18 MR. BROCKMANN: Fair question. We do not have 19 one, but I think MSD can respond and get your name and 20 e-mail address, and send that to you after this meeting. 21 MR. BROWN: Thanks. 22 MR. BROCKMANN: Anyone else? Brian. 23 MR. HOELSCHER: Hold on a minute. Everybody can 24 hear me, right? My voice projects pretty well. I 25 usually don't need a microphone. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 9Page 9Page 9Page 9 1 I'm going to give a presentation of a proposed 2 stormwater service that MSD does not currently provide 3 districtwide that we're proposing to provide 4 districtwide, and we'll let you know the details of 5 that. 6 There's three things I'm going to cover. First 7 of all, I'm going to give you just some general 8 information about the district. After that, I'm going 9 to go over where we currently stand on stormwater 10 services, what you're paying, and what services we're 11 providing. 12 And then thirdly, which is really the basis of 13 the rate proposal, we're going to explain to you a new 14 service that we would like to offer to the residents to 15 determine whether or not they want MSD to provide that 16 service or not. 17 So first of all, quick overview of MSD. We are a 18 government utility. We are created under provision of 19 an amendment to the Missouri State Constitution. We are 20 governed by a voter-approved charter. 21 Our governance, our board of trustees, consists 22 of three appointees from the Mayor of the City of St. 23 Louis, and three appointees from the County Executive of 24 St. Louis County. 25 We are two utilities. We are a wastewater TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 10Page 10Page 10Page 10 1 utility, and we are a stormwater utility. And we 2 collect revenues specifically for those two items. 3 On the wastewater utility, there's one service 4 and one charge that you receive. On stormwater, right 5 now, there are two services we're providing. 6 I will describe how we collect those revenues. 7 We're then going to ask for a third. What we're 8 proposing to the residents is finding out whether or not 9 you want us to provide a third service. 10 As we're going through this, we have got a lot of 11 MSD employees here. The director of operations, the 12 director of engineering, they all have shirts on like 13 this. 14 After this is done, if you've got questions or 15 comments you would like to have about something that 16 isn't involved with this rate proposal as to some of the 17 other services we provide, they will stay here 18 afterwards and will answer all the questions and try to 19 get you as much information as they can. 20 MSD has a 520 square mile service area; it's all 21 of the City of St. Louis and 87 percent of St. Louis 22 County. We serve about 1.3 million customers. They are 23 88 separate municipalities located within the MSD 24 service area. 25 We have seven treatment plants that treat about TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 11Page 11Page 11Page 11 1 350 million gallons of wastewater per day, 4700 miles of 2 sanitary sewers, 1800 miles of combined sewers that 3 handle wastewater and stormwater runoff, mostly in the 4 city, and about 3,000 miles of public storm sewer. We 5 are the fourth largest wastewater utility in the 6 country, behind New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. 7 So again, as I go through this, just a reminder, 8 we do have other folks here to answer questions if I 9 don't cover specific topics. 10 Where do we stand right now? First of all, if 11 you remember in April of 2016, we came to the voters. 12 We wanted to be able to provide a districtwide fund that 13 would allow us to operate and maintain the public storm 14 sewer system. Storm sewers, inlets, manholes, and paved 15 concrete channels. 16 MSD did not currently have a revenue to do that. 17 We had some revenues east of 270 and east of Lindbergh 18 to accomplish that. But MSD also owned the public storm 19 sewer facilities west of 270 and had absolutely no 20 revenues to maintain those systems. 21 The passage of Proposition S resulted in a 22 districtwide tax that we used to operate and maintain 23 the public storm sewer service throughout the entire 24 service area with exactly the same service. 25 Where we stand right now. Those of you, if you TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 12Page 12Page 12Page 12 1 ever attended any of these prior to Proposition S in 2 April of 2016, you've seen this map. This is the 3 services MSD currently provides. 4 You look at the upper left-hand corner, we charge 5 about a two-cent per a hundred dollar valuation property 6 tax that's on your property bill -- property tax 7 statement. It's the smallest number on your property 8 tax bill that you spend. 9 That allows us to address pollutants that are -- 10 that go into the rivers, creeks, and streams that are 11 transported there by rainwater runoff. We're 12 responsible for addressing those impacts on the local 13 creeks and streams. 14 That two-cent tax has been in place, identified 15 specifically since 1979 and has provided sufficient 16 revenues for us to meet a regulatory requirement. 17 You also see we've changed the number around. 18 That's right .0971, or what's is the 10-cent tax, that's 19 the Proposition S tax that I told you about. That 20 10-cent tax, when it went in place, gives us the 21 revenues to operate, maintain, repair, and replace the 22 public storm sewer system throughout the entire 23 district. 24 So now we've taken care of the regulatory issues, 25 and we've taken care of the public storm sewer system. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 13Page 13Page 13Page 13 1 When we passed Proposition S, we eliminated two 2 source of revenue, and we set 21 other little tax in 3 subdistricts at zero. They were doing stormwater of 4 different types throughout the district. We set those 5 at zero. 6 We took the fund balances that were in all those 7 funds, and that total was $67 million. And part of 8 Proposition S, we committed to spending that $67 million 9 to address flooding and erosion issues throughout the 10 district. 11 That map you see with the dots, back when we did 12 this in 2016 -- and this map is still on our website -- 13 has the little number in it that when we passed Prop S, 14 it described every project we were going to propose to 15 do; what the problem was, what our solution was, how 16 much it was going to cost, when it was going to get 17 done, and what city it was in. 18 So we're in the process of addressing those 19 flooding and erosion issues that are now identified in 20 those dots. 21 The rub of it is, once that $67 million is spent, 22 there's no more money. There's no revenues coming in to 23 address those kind of issues districtwide. This rate 24 proposal is asking the citizens whether or not they 25 would like to provide MSD revenues to continue that TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 14Page 14Page 14Page 14 1 program. 2 And this is an example of the three things that 3 we're talking about providing. One is localized 4 flooding. That's people's backyards. 5 Sometimes ditches have been filled in, sometimes 6 we've seen people build swimming pools across the 7 backyard of swells when their neighbor's flood. Things 8 get graded differently. Water just doesn't go away fast 9 enough, and people want that kind of water moved much 10 quicker when it rains. 11 The other is regional flooding; folks who live 12 next to creeks and streams. Some are in recognized 13 flood planes, some are not. They suffer whenever those 14 storms come, addressing those issues. 15 And finally, erosion. Runoff is causing creeks 16 and streams to erode. And in some cases, it may be 17 inching up on somebody's backyard fence. In some cases, 18 it's actually getting ready to encroach on structures on 19 people's property. 20 So what we're looking to do is to put a revenue 21 source in place with the approval of the voters that 22 will allow us to address these issues districtwide. 23 That is the scope, and that is the -- that is the scope 24 of the proposal. 25 How much of this is there? Every one of those TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 15Page 15Page 15Page 15 1 dots represents an issue that's been reported to us by 2 the citizens. It's all kinds of issues. It could be 3 that water sits in the backyard after a rain longer than 4 the residents want. It could also be somebody who has 5 creek erosion that's getting ready to swallow their 6 garage and put it into the creek. It's all sorts of 7 those. 8 The approximate cost to resolve all these issues 9 -- and it's a very preliminary number -- is $562 10 million, in order to resolve all the issues that we've 11 identified. What does it -- yes, ma'am. 12 MS. RUEMMLER: Does this include when people that 13 choose to live in a flood plane, and then have problems. 14 MR. HOELSCHER: We are proposing that. Yes. 15 MS. RUEMMLER: So and then we're going to be 16 required to rebuild them, or refix their houses, because 17 they choose to live there. 18 MR. HOELSCHER: So if you're in a flood plane, 19 MSD's proposal usually -- almost exclusively for people 20 in flood planes is to buy them out and get them out of 21 the flood plane. But yes, that would be in this 22 proposal. 23 Funding proposal. What we're proposing is to 24 implement a rate that would generate $30 million per 25 year for an MSD capital program. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 16Page 16Page 16Page 16 1 The rate's based on the amount of impervious area 2 on each customer's property. The average charge we're 3 proposing for a single-family residential home is $2.25 4 per month, or about $27 per year to fund that program. 5 We're proposing to charge all tax-exempt and 6 not-for-profit entities; therefore schools, churches, 7 town halls, the airport -- St. Louis Airport would all 8 get charged based on the impervious area. 9 It will address, again, the unfunded stormwater 10 issues that MSD first charter has the ability to 11 provide, as long as it's provided funding to do it. 12 Estimates are that we can complete the program in 13 about -- of the items we've identified -- in about 30 14 years. As they always have been, the creeks and streams 15 are still private property, like they've always been. 16 We will work with the municipalities, because 17 while we want to solve some of these -- we think we're 18 the right ones to propose to solve these flood plane 19 issues -- we'll have to coordinate with the individual 20 municipalities. 21 They're the ones who are the flood plane 22 managers. They manage development and redevelopment 23 within the a flood planes. We'll work with them. 24 There is an exception to this; the levy districts 25 that are located to the west that are protected by the TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 17Page 17Page 17Page 17 1 levies along the Missouri River. They are tasked under 2 another utility from the state with providing stormwater 3 services as part of the levy system. 4 So they won't be billed for that. They're 5 already being billed by the levy districts to perform 6 this kind of work. 7 The impervious rationale. An impervious area, 8 we're going to talk about here, is a hardened surface. 9 Concrete, roofs, blacktops, concrete, your driveways, 10 sidewalks those types of things that don't absorb water. 11 It runs off and it generates stormwater runoff. 12 The flooding and stormwater services that are 13 being proposed are directly impacted by the volume of 14 stormwater runoff. 15 Therefore, we believe the fairest way to 16 distribute the cost of this program is based on the 17 impervious area on each lot within our district. 18 This type of methodology, using impervious area, 19 is broadly used throughout the United States as a basis 20 for determining proper contributions for this type of 21 program. 22 Again, it's all public and private properties, 23 including properties owned by government nonentities 24 will be subject to the stormwater capital rate proposal. 25 MS. RUEMMLER: Are you proposing determining each TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 18Page 18Page 18Page 18 1 person's lot, or -- 2 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes. 3 MS. RUEMMLER: -- as opposed to how much is 4 concrete and how much soaks things up. 5 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes. 6 MS. RUEMMLER: So nobody's bill is going to be 7 the same. 8 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, let me -- there's a 9 description here later on. Let me give you that, and 10 I'll show you. 11 The answer to that is part yes and part no. 12 There's a description of the way folks are going to be 13 billed later. I think that will answer your question. 14 If that doesn't, we'll get to that later. 15 MR. BATEMAN: Will there be any type of the 16 amendments to that process of determination, such as 17 properties that collect rainwater through the use of 18 rain barrel systems. 19 MR. HOELSCHER: So there's also a credit proposal 20 system we're going to put in place. I'll describe that 21 later as well. Yes, sir. 22 MR. BROWN: We're doing a catch-up now, the way I 23 understand it in your proposal. I guess it is to do all 24 the costs of repairs and remediation. Did your plan 25 include future building in it, so that we wouldn't have TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 19Page 19Page 19Page 19 1 to do catch-up again? 2 MR. HOELSCHER: So our plan would be -- 3 MR. BROWN: A future creation of minimum 4 impervious areas. 5 MR. HOELSCHER: Right. So I'll answer those two 6 things in the future. But one, for the folks who are in 7 flood planes, if MSD solves the issue of properties that 8 are in flood planes, and we take care of that problem, 9 we put a permanent easement on the property that would 10 not allow any more development. 11 Those folks who develop tomorrow, and they have 12 for quite a few years, fall under a regulatory 13 requirement from MSD. If they develop property and 14 increase impervious area, they have to put proper 15 storage in the basin so the runoff volume is no greater 16 than it was prior to development. 17 They also have to have put facilities in to 18 address some of the pollutants with the stormwater 19 runoff so it doesn't enter creeks and streams. 20 MR. BROWN: So hypothetically speaking, you're 21 saying there won't be any future deficits to catch up 22 on. 23 MR. HOELSCHER: Correct. There should not be. 24 MR. BROWN: Thank you. 25 MR. ZIEGLER: The rules should be in place. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 20Page 20Page 20Page 20 1 MR. BROCKMANN: You have a question? 2 MR. BATEMAN: So what will be used -- the 3 property that is included in that -- be used for? The 4 property that's bought on the flood planes and -- 5 MR. HOELSCHER: Our thoughts right now, the best 6 thing that can happen to properties in flood planes is 7 to stay as green properties and flood planes. 8 It allows them to absorb water, it allows them to 9 serve as a flood plane, which they're designed to do. 10 Another benefit to MSD is if homes are in flood planes 11 and are served by sanitary sewers, when those areas 12 flood, those flood waters get in the sanitary sewers and 13 cause basement backups of neighbors. 14 We'll eliminate all those problems that are 15 caused by that particular issue, and those problems 16 won't exist anymore. 17 MR. BATEMAN: So possibly turn them into parks or 18 other -- 19 MR. HOELSCHER: Anything that doesn't add 20 impervious area and doesn't result in a permanent 21 structure that could be damaged by flooding. 22 Right now, the thought is we would probably work 23 with whatever municipalities' particular properties to 24 make sure that's what occurs. Yes, ma'am. 25 MS. RUEMMLER: Do you have any input on the TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 21Page 21Page 21Page 21 1 levies that are being raised, causing more and more and 2 more flooding in more areas. 3 MR. HOELSCHER: No, we don't. That's out of our 4 jurisdiction. That falls with the Corps of Engineers 5 and the State of Missouri and the individual 6 municipalities. MSD doesn't have any jurisdiction over 7 those levies. 8 MS. RUEMMLER: But you do propose paying for the 9 damage that's done by that; is that correct. 10 MR. HOELSCHER: We propose right now buying homes 11 out of those flood planes. Yes. Yes, sir. 12 MR. CARMODY: What's the criteria to purchase a 13 home that's in a flood plane? Is it in a thousand year 14 flood plane, a 500 year flood plane, a hundred year 15 flood plane. 16 MR. HOELSCHER: So the idea is every one of our 17 stormwater projects, we do a benefit/cost analysis. So 18 in your example, for a home in a flood plane, if it gets 19 flooded every two years, that has a higher benefit cost 20 than a home that gets flooded every 100 years. 21 Then we take that benefit, divide it by cost, and 22 we end up with a benefit/cost ratio. And as MSD has 23 done in the past, we will simply do the projects with 24 the higher cost/benefit ratio. And that's for all 25 stormwater projects. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 22Page 22Page 22Page 22 1 MR. CARMODY: So let me ask my question. I 2 didn't understand the answer. 3 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. I'm sorry. 4 MR. CARMODY: If there is a home in a flood 5 plane, and it's a 500 year flood plane, you wouldn't 6 necessarily buy them out. You're going to buy out the 7 100 flood planes first, correct. 8 MR. HOELSCHER: We're going to start with the 9 ones that are most critical, yes. We would start with 10 the ones that are in the 2-year flood plane. We have 11 homes in 2-year, in five years, then 10. 12 MR. CARMODY: So my final question then. What in 13 this plan is going to curb the continuous growth of 14 flood planes. 15 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. So the control of 16 redevelopment -- of development occurring in flood 17 planes doesn't lie within MSD. It lies with the 18 individual municipalities, who by state law, are the 19 flood plane managers within their municipal boundaries. 20 I can tell you, we've had a lot of 21 communications. I think they understand the problem 22 with doing that. I think you've seen very little -- if 23 you consider the district boundaries there's very little 24 new development that's going in flood planes, except for 25 the instance in the Chesterfield area, for instance. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 23Page 23Page 23Page 23 1 MR. CARMODY: And Kirkwood. 2 Q. The big houses flooding the little houses that 3 we've seen on the news; do you deal with that? Because 4 they're saying that's not anybody's problem but the 5 homeowners. 6 MR. HOELSCHER: So, we will take care -- we will 7 judge every problem together with every other problem we 8 know. We'll take what the benefit for reducing the 9 flooding, divide it by the cost, and our plan is to go 10 down the list of problems from the ones who have the 11 highest ratio to ones that have the least ratio. And 12 we'll work our way through that list. Yes, sir. 13 MS. COMELLO: How does that tie in with federal 14 insurance, flood insurance, that some homeowners should 15 be required, or are required to have, if they live in a 16 certain area? 17 MR. HOELSCHER: So two things. One, if you're in 18 a flood plane and you purchase a home, as I understand 19 it, you get a loan, you are required to get federal 20 flood insurance if you're in mapped flood plane. 21 Those of you -- has anybody seen Tim Ezell on the 22 TV do the "Know Your Zone" commercials? MSD sponsors 23 those "Know Your Zone" commercials. 24 You don't just have to be in a flood plane to be 25 able to get flood insurance, and I think that's what TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 24Page 24Page 24Page 24 1 we're telling people. We don't have the ability to 2 regulate that. We are letting the folks know whether 3 you're in a mapped flood plane, that -- for instance, if 4 you bought a new home and got a loan, you are required 5 to get insurance. 6 You may also be in a flood zone that has some 7 chance of being flooded. And the best thing to did is 8 to go FEMA and ask, hey, what insurance can I get in 9 order to compensate myself. Yes, sir. 10 MS. COMELLO: Does that help them in buying the 11 land so that MSD, or in general, the taxpayers have to 12 buy it out through MSD or through the federal flooding 13 insurance. 14 MR. HOELSCHER: Yeah. I'm not going to go into 15 the particulars of flood insurance. What we're 16 recommending is that we buy the homes out proactively as 17 a service, whether somebody's been flooded in the last 18 three years or not. Our proposal is to go down and buy 19 those homes with the approval of the city. Yes, sir. 20 MR. CARMODY: So if I understand this correctly, 21 if an municipality comes to you and they want to -- and 22 they've been given a building permit in a flood zone, 23 you're going to deny it. 24 MR. HOELSCHER: If they give a building permit in 25 a flood plane, the one thing MSD has a regulatory TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 25Page 25Page 25Page 25 1 ability to do is to make sure whatever that development 2 is doesn't raise the water in the creeks. 3 MR. CARMODY: That's not going to -- 4 MR. HOELSCHER: Because that only falls with us. 5 Anything else falls within the responsibility of the 6 flood plane managers, who are the individual 7 municipalities. 8 MR. CARMODY: So they can continue to build up 9 the flood planes, and you guys will determine if it 10 should be bought out or not later on. 11 MR. HOELSCHER: They could -- one of the things 12 we've done is make sure they make provisions that if 13 they build people in flood planes, the one thing we make 14 sure of is that they make sure the sanitary system is 15 protected and won't absorb flood waters if there is 16 flooding. 17 But somebody building a home in a flood plane, 18 they get permission from the municipality; MSD has no 19 say whether they can continue with that practice or not. 20 Yes, ma'am. 21 MS. RUEMMLER: When did MSD get in the business 22 of buying out houses and owning land? And why is this 23 even anything that you would get involved in. 24 MR. HOELSCHER: This is a power that's available 25 to MSD if we wish to do it. We have been doing it. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 26Page 26Page 26Page 26 1 There are some areas -- we mentioned setting some taxes 2 at zero; primarily areas between the City of St. Louis 3 boundaries and 270, where we're collecting stormwater 4 funds. And if the highest priority project was to buy 5 properties out of flood planes, we have been doing that. 6 That is a power that's available to us, so. 7 MS. RUEMMLER: I mean, it's like all rest of us 8 are buying out people and paying for people's houses to 9 get their money back, and you to buy them and have the 10 property. I assume you own the property then. 11 MR. HOELSCHER: Ultimately, we would not own the 12 property. It would go to somebody else, be it a local 13 -- an adjacent property owner or municipality, something 14 else. We don't plan an owning any of the properties 15 long-term. 16 MS. RUEMMLER: After the taxpayers pay for this 17 property, who owns it? And why do they own it? Why 18 don't the taxpayers own it. 19 MR. HOELSCHER: It would be the municipality or 20 somebody who's responsibile for the cost of maintaining 21 it. We don't want to absorb the cost of it, or the 22 taxpayers doing the maintenance of it. Somebody else 23 will be responsible. 24 But we can put a permanent easement on the 25 property to make sure it's never redeveloped in the TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 27Page 27Page 27Page 27 1 future. And that's what we currently do with those 2 small areas, where we do have funding. 3 You've hit on a topic that I think the folks -- 4 the ratepayers get to decide. We've determined based on 5 surveying a lot of other things, people feel this is an 6 important issue. Ultimately, this is going to be voted 7 on. If the voters decide this is not something that's 8 acceptable, they can decide that when voting. 9 MS. RUEMMLER: And will we be voting on it before 10 anything's done. 11 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes. But remember, there's no 12 revenues right now. If you vote no coming up in April, 13 there's still no revenues and we won't be doing any 14 work. 15 MS. RUEMMLER: Next year in April, I presume. 16 MR. HOELSCHER: April 2019. I'm jumping ahead of 17 myself trying here, trying to keep track of the 18 questions. Hopefully I'm doing that, and we'll be 19 hitting some repeats here. Let me continue on. I think 20 the context is going to become hopefully helpful. 21 One of the things we wanted to review is the 22 impervious-based rationale. If you remember in 23 2007/2008, MSD proposed coming through its Rate 24 Commission to charge an impervious rate, a cost per 25 area, or rate similar to your wastewater rate. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 28Page 28Page 28Page 28 1 It's a common method of raising funds that is 2 done in a lot of places throughout the country. It 3 wouldn't require a vote. Again, it's a rate just like 4 your phone bill, your gas bill, your wastewater bill. 5 We sent that to our -- the Rate Commission. They 6 recommended our board that we move forward. After we 7 implemented it, there was a lawsuit by a gentleman named 8 Mr. Zwieg, who felt that it was contrary to the state's 9 Hancock amendment. That's something that -- it's not 10 legal. 11 We suspended the fees as soon as they found that. 12 Ultimately, an appellate -- the Supreme Court in 13 Missouri determined that it was unconstitutional; that 14 if you put a rate like that in place, it needs to be 15 voted on. 16 The State of Missouri is one of the few places in 17 the country that has that rule. But we do have to abide 18 by that rule. 19 MS. RUEMMLER: Thank you, John Hancock. 20 MR. HOELSCHER: And we're going to abide by that. 21 The Court also unanimously agreed since the money we 22 collected, we had already done projects, we didn't have 23 to refund the money. 24 Because the only source of funds to refund the 25 money would have been to collect it from the residents, TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 29Page 29Page 29Page 29 1 collect the money and then return it back to the 2 residents. 3 Through that whole process and as we've gone 4 forward, the Rate Commission, in a previous rate 5 proposal, did recommend that as we move forward, we 6 still need to consider using an impervious area rate 7 methodology in order to contribute costs for any future 8 programs. 9 That's one of the reasons you see us coming back 10 with an impervious. Also, our public outreach has shown 11 that if we put a rate like this in place, the public 12 believes that charging based on impervious area is the 13 fairest way to do it. 14 So how are we going to do the calculation? We're 15 going to do them by -- a little background here. A 16 little engineering. 17 With something that's going to be developed 18 called an equivalent residential unit. It's the measure 19 of the average number of square feet of impervious area 20 that's found on a typical residential property. 21 In our service area, the typical residential 22 property has 2,600 square feet of impervious area; 23 rooftops, driveways, sidewalks. 24 The proposed rate was determined by taking the 25 proposed program of $30 million per year divided by the TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 30Page 30Page 30Page 30 1 number of ERUs, or impervious areas, and coming up with 2 what the appropriate charge would be. 3 So each ERU, equivalent resident unit, 2,600 4 square feet, will be charged $2.25 per month, or $27 5 annually. The way that works out in the actual billings 6 that people would see is here. 7 For single-family residential customers, we used 8 a four-tier system. This is something that's typical 9 throughout the country. 10 It differentiates the amount of impervious area 11 that's on individual properties. The tier ranges use 12 the ERU as a reference point, which you will find that 13 most of the properties are paying what one equivalent 14 residential unit. 15 And the four shares doing this, the cost of 16 services are equitably distributed amongst the customers 17 that are generating more of the stormwater runoff. 18 If you are a residential customer, and under one 19 of the tiers, we've set up four tiers. If your 20 residential property has 200 to 2,000 square feet of 21 impervious area on it, we're looking to bill you $1.42 22 per month. That's the proposal. That represents about 23 one quarter of the residential properties throughout 24 MSD's service area. 25 If your property has between 2,001 and 3,600 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 31Page 31Page 31Page 31 1 square feet of impervious area -- that's about half the 2 properties -- we're looking to charge $2.25 per month, 3 or $27 per year. 4 If you're in some of the larger properties, tier 5 3, between 2,601 and 6,000 square feet, you would be 6 charged $3.74 per month, or about $45 annually. 7 You will notice as the people have more 8 impervious area, that they pay more since they're 9 contributing to more runoff from the impervious areas. 10 And finally, tier 4, for any residential property 11 that has at least 6,000 square feet of impervious area, 12 they would be asked to pay $6.84 per month. 13 Those are residential customers. Now, as I 14 mentioned, a multi-family customers, commercial 15 customers, industrial customers, they're going to 16 charged by equivalent residential unit. 17 As I described, an ERU is 2,600 square feet. 18 That's the average size of a residential unit throughout 19 our district. 20 So they're going to be charged $2.25 per ERU. So 21 hopefully, we've shown you relatively easy math example 22 to explain this. 23 If a commercial or industrial property has 10,000 24 square feet of impervious area, if you divide that by 25 2,600 square feet, which is an ERU, you end up with TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 32Page 32Page 32Page 32 1 about 3.8 ERUs. 2 We would round that up to 4, and we would charge 3 that commercial customer 4 times $2.25 -- the cost of 4 one ERU -- that would result in an annual -- a monthly 5 billing of $9.00 per month for those entities. 6 The first full year, where it would collect 7 revenues would be from our fiscal year, July 1, 2021 to 8 2022. How does the revenue come in? The bottom number, 9 you see $13,874,000 would come in from residential 10 customers; slightly half of the program. 11 The commercial, industrial, not-for-profit 12 entities, they would generate revenues of 16.2 million, 13 or slightly more than half the proposed $30 million 14 program. 15 How would we bill? The stormwater rate will 16 appear on the monthly billing of customers who are 17 billed for wastewater. So if you get a monthly bill 18 from us, the wastewater, we will simply add this on to 19 your monthly bill; whatever the appropriate number is 20 from the chart I've previously shown. 21 We do have customers who are not billed for 22 wastewater, but they have a large amount of impervious 23 area. For those folks, if they have at least 20 ERUs -- 24 which is 20 times 2,600 square feet -- and we have 25 properties like that -- we're going to also bill them TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 33Page 33Page 33Page 33 1 monthly, $2.25 per ERU. 2 We have other customers that are not receiving 3 MSD wastewater services. These are folks on septic 4 tanks. But they're impervious area is still 5 contributing to the flows that get in our local creeks 6 and streams. For those folks, we're going to bill them 7 quarterly. 8 The reason for that; I just indicated to you the 9 average customer is going to pay $2.25 per month. It 10 costs us a lot of money to send a bill for $2.25 a month 11 and process the payment. So to be as cost effective as 12 possible for folks who fall in that category, we're 13 going to bill them every three months. It makes it a 14 little more cost efficient to send bills. 15 MS. RUEMMLER: I have a question. Is this going 16 to be a separate bill from the one we get now? Or is it 17 just an add-on. 18 MR. HOELSCHER: If you're currently receiving a 19 wastewater bill, it will show up as another line on your 20 bill. 21 Q. So it won't be a separate bill unless we don't 22 get one to start with? 23 MR. HOELSCHER: Exactly. Yes. That's correct. 24 Incentives. Somebody asked about incentives built into 25 it. I would ask you to remember and consider that the TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 34Page 34Page 34Page 34 1 charge we're proposing for the average residential 2 customer is $2.25 per month. That obviously has an 3 impact on the kind of incentive we could propose. 4 Green roofs, engineered pervious pavements; for 5 instance instead of a concrete patio, you have pervious 6 pavers to allow the water to sink down, that will not be 7 counted as a pervious area. 8 The easiest way to reduce it is to remove the 9 impervious area. If you're a residential customer and 10 remove enough impervious area to go down a tier, your 11 costs will go down. 12 If you are a nonresidential customer -- 13 commercial, industrial, not-for-profits, you reduce it 14 by reducing the number of ERUs. So for every 2,600 ERUs 15 of impervious area that you remove, your rate would go 16 down $2.25 a month. That's the easiest way to reduce 17 your cost of stormwater. 18 There are situations where the stormwater from 19 properties runs off their property and go to creeks and 20 streams that don't fall under MSD's jurisdiction in any 21 way, at least for the Missouri, Mississippi, and Meramec 22 Rivers. 23 If they do that, they're going to get a 70 24 percent credit on their bill. Their stormwater runoff 25 is not running and causing flooding or erosion that TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 35Page 35Page 35Page 35 1 would fall under MSD's auspices. 2 There are best management practices, where you 3 get a 50 percent. One I mentioned earlier, and if 4 anybody designed something new, there are current 5 regulations that you have to meet. MSD is still 6 proposing that that cost be absorbed by the cost of 7 development. 8 MSD is not going to be -- we're not proposing to 9 reimburse developers for meeting current regulatory 10 building requirements. 11 However, if you're a residential customer and you 12 can take 500 square feet of your impervious area and 13 move it to a treated area, a rain garden or something 14 that meets our design requirements, we will give you a 15 $135 incentive payment for doing that work. That's 16 about half of the cost over a 10-year period. 17 And commercial, if you take an ERU, and instead 18 of removing it and getting full credit, if you direct it 19 towards a basin or somewhere to hold the water so you 20 can decrease the peak that's going off, you can get a 50 21 percent credit for that ERU that you're sending to a 22 storage area. 23 There's also low impact development. For 24 properties that have -- where the impervious area is 25 less than 15 percent of their total property size, TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 36Page 36Page 36Page 36 1 there's a 35 percent credit. 2 Even though we have impervious area, there's a 3 large enough green space in the yard that that yard is 4 able to absorb some of that runoff and reduce the impact 5 on that impervious area. 6 This is the first time I'm doing exactly this. 7 And I don't want to make any mistakes here. 8 So what is the timeline for the stormwater 9 proposal? As mentioned, we submitted the rate water -- 10 the staff submitted the proposal to our Rate Commission 11 on February 26. 12 The Rate Commission has originally 120 days, and 13 as of now, per their request from our board has allowed 14 them a 45-day extension to 165 days that I believe 15 they're going to take advantage of. 16 Once they're done, they will make a 17 recommendation to the Board of Trustees. The Rate 18 Commission here will hold technical meetings April 19 through June. This is one of those. 20 It's not a technical meeting. No. Technical 21 meetings have to do with the actual process of 22 evaluating the rate proposal. It's a legal -- it's like 23 a courtroom-type process. 24 MSD has submitted exhibits. MSD has submitted 25 testimony. MSD has been cross-examined. There's now TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 37Page 37Page 37Page 37 1 written testimony being provided by others. All of this 2 is documented on our website. If you would like to go 3 there and follow what's going on and read the detailed 4 passage of the rate proposal, that is also on or 5 website, at www.stlmsd.com. 6 There will be seven public meetings being held. 7 This is the first one of those seven public meetings in 8 order to explain the rate proposal that staff has 9 brought before the Rate Commission. 10 Again, under the current schedule, assuming that 11 the Rate Commission takes advantage of their request of 12 extension, the Rate Commission's recommendation needs to 13 be delivered to our Board of Trustees in August. 14 They will take the Rate Commission's 15 recommendation, consider what we propose, any changes 16 that were proposed by the Rate Commission, and hopefully 17 the board will decide -- our Board of Trustees will 18 decide how to proceed at the end of the calendar year, 19 by December. 20 If it is approved and the board decides to move 21 forward, the plan is for us to put this in front of the 22 voters in April of 2019. 23 There's two possible outcomes. The voters may 24 say yes; this is a worthwhile endeavor at this cost. If 25 they say yes, MSD will start billing this new rate in TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 38Page 38Page 38Page 38 1 January 2020, and will start services almost immediately 2 afterwards, mostly the design of new projects. 3 If the voters vote no, MSD will not provide the 4 service, depending on what the results are in April of 5 2019. 6 So I'm going to skip here a little bit now and 7 talk briefly about wastewater, because we think this is 8 important. 9 I mentioned we are two different utilities. 10 Right now, we brought a new funding source for a new 11 stormwater service in front of our Rate Commission. 12 Obviously, the biggest rate that you pay MSD is 13 your wastewater bill that you pay on a monthly basis. 14 We're getting to the point where the four-year proposal 15 that was approved by the previous Rate Commission is 16 coming to a conclusion. 17 We need to go in front of the Rate Commission for 18 proposed funding for our fiscal years 2021 through 2024. 19 We plan on beginning development of that wastewater 20 proposal this summer. It hasn't started yet. 21 The Rate Commission meetings are scheduled to 22 begin in September. We plan on submitting a wastewater 23 proposal to them in February. And after that, we will 24 go through this whole process again for the wastewater 25 proposal. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 39Page 39Page 39Page 39 1 The reason I'm bringing that out, that is not 2 something the board or the Rate Commission has in its 3 hands. It's something that MSD does have to develop. 4 So the point I want to make here, if you have a 5 wastewater question; rates, what's going to happen, a 6 problem, I would ask that -- and again, we've all got 7 these shirts on. 8 If you ask somebody in the audience, an MSD staff 9 member, about that problem and solving it, we can go 10 after that and talk to you after the meeting. 11 If you have a question regarding the stormwater 12 proposal to provide capital funding for erosion, for 13 flooding, that's what we're here presenting and what we 14 present in front of the Rate Commission, and what they 15 want to hear your comments on; is that chart and those 16 services we went over. 17 In addition here, all these proceedings are on 18 MSD's website; as well as if you have any questions 19 after this meeting that you still want answered, if you 20 will get to Lance LeComb, you can contact him directly. 21 Or if you go on our website, there is a place you 22 can submit questions to the Rate Commission on the 23 website -- there's not? Okay. 24 If you have any questions, use Lance LeComb's 25 number, or send things directly to MSD. We'll make sure TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 40Page 40Page 40Page 40 1 the Rate Commission gets any other comments that people 2 would like to make, or any questions that you have. 3 We'll make sure that they get that, if you happen to 4 think of one after. 5 MS. RUEMMLER: What are the chances of getting 6 them to answer the phone. 7 MR. HOELSCHER: To what? 8 MR. LECOMB: I'm right here. I'll answer my 9 phone. 10 MS. RUEMMLER: We have identified you. 11 MR. LECOMB: That's my phone number. So I can't 12 avoid you. That's my cell and my home. 13 MS. RUEMMLER: You'll turn it off. 14 MR. LECOMB: No. I answer my phone. 15 MR. HOELSCHER: Mr. Chairman, that's the end of 16 MSD's presentation. 17 MR. BROCKMANN: Thank you, Brian. A couple of 18 comments. The Rate Commission has set up a Facebook 19 page, a Twitter account. If you go on MSD's website, 20 those links are available on the MSD website. Correct 21 me if I'm wrong, Patty; is that correct? 22 MS. OLSEN: I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. 23 MR. BROCKMANN: The Facebook and Twitter access 24 accounts are on the Rate Commission's website on MSD? 25 MS. OLSEN: Yes. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 41Page 41Page 41Page 41 1 MR. BROCKMANN: So people can comment directly to 2 the Rate Commission through those means as well. 3 One clarification. Brian said there were seven 4 public meetings. There's actually six public meetings 5 and a screening meeting. We'll actually have a 6 screening meeting, where you can send comments in, and 7 the board will address those questions. 8 And that screening meeting will be on May 30th at 9 1:00 p.m. There's information on the website about that 10 screening meeting as well. 11 There's been a lot of great questions here 12 tonight. What I would like to do is go through the 13 sign-up list. I know some of you earlier said you maybe 14 didn't want to comment. But I have the sense that now 15 that you've heard the proposal from MSD, that maybe you 16 have other thoughts and would like to add other comments 17 or questions and address them to the MSD staff. 18 So let me just go through the list here as you 19 signed up. And if you have any additional comments or 20 questions, please feel free. Wendi. 21 MS. COMELLO: Yes. 22 MR. BROCKMANN: Do you have anything? 23 MS. COMELLO: No. Thank you. 24 MR. BROCKMANN: Patrick? 25 MR. BATEMAN: Actually, I do have a question. I TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 42Page 42Page 42Page 42 1 think one of the biggest issues that a lot of people 2 here tonight are questioning is for the buyouts of the 3 properties in the flood planes. 4 What is to stop, say, a developmental company, or 5 even an individual, knowing that a property is in an 6 every two-year stage flood plane, from coming in, 7 purchasing the property for cheap, building on it, just 8 so they know that they're going to get an even bigger 9 profit from MSD buying it out. 10 And then on the other side of that, what is MSD 11 going to do with this property to recoup the money spent 12 to purchase it. 13 MR. HOELSCHER: So the best I can give you right 14 now is there's nothing formally in place, because we 15 don't have the -- we're quite a ways away. 16 But if we were to find -- I will commit to you if 17 we were to find that somebody went in and bought 18 properties with that intent, and there's nobody 19 currently living in them, we would take that into 20 consideration as whether or not it's something we should 21 spend these moneys on. 22 Do we have something in writing that says how 23 we're going to do that? No, we don't at this time. 24 The second part of your question was what are we 25 going to do the properties afterwards? TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 43Page 43Page 43Page 43 1 MR. BATEMAN: And will you be able to recoup the 2 money spent purchasing that property? 3 MR. HOELSCHER: No. Right now there is no plan 4 to -- if we determine the appropriate -- if the purchase 5 is appropriate -- and I understand your concern about 6 those situations. 7 I understand that a lot of people -- and we know 8 this from talking to them -- buy homes when it's dry, 9 don't expect this to be an issue, and they're somewhat 10 as surprised as everybody else when they get flooded. 11 I'll just let you know there's that situation out there. 12 So -- ask your question again. I'm sorry. I got 13 off on my -- one more time. 14 MR. BATEMAN: Is there a way for MSD to recoup 15 the money spent. 16 MR. HOELSCHER: Right. So we don't plan on 17 recouping any cost. Could we get to a place -- I'm 18 thinking here now, could we get to a place where you 19 notify the cities that if you allow building after this 20 state, there are multiple programs, that is something 21 MSD would have to authority and the ability to put in 22 place; which I think is a very useful comment. It's not 23 the details of something we've thought of before. So 24 I'm hitting what you're saying, correct? Okay. 25 MR. BATEMAN: And just another side, minor TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 44Page 44Page 44Page 44 1 question. With the credit for impervious residential -- 2 for instance if you have a small residential property 3 and you capture the rainwater from your roof system, 4 your gutter system into a rain barrel system, do you get 5 any type of credit for something like that, or abstract 6 the square footage of impervious -- of the roof from the 7 figure? 8 MR. HOELSCHER: So within the limits of what we 9 gave you, if, within or design standards you capture 500 10 square feet of roof, there's a potential you get credit 11 for that. 12 I will let you know, a rain barrel's volume -- 13 while it's good for the environment, especially for 14 smaller storms, probably has little if no measurable 15 impact on the ultimate storm that runs off. 16 A lot of the problems we're talking about here 17 are not caused by the one, two-year thunder burst we 18 have. It's caused by 20 and 30 years storms. 19 MR. BATEMAN: Right. 20 MR. HOELSCHER: Usually a rain barrel will have 21 an insignificant impact. 22 However, there is a methodology for storing 23 flows, be it a super rain barrel, like some kind of 24 system of some kind. We would evaluate any proposal 25 somebody has to see if it meets the requirement to TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 45Page 45Page 45Page 45 1 retain 500 square feet of impervious area per our 2 standards. So we would review any of those. 3 MR. BROCKMANN: Michael? 4 MR. CARMODY: Good evening. I'm going to circle 5 back on that. I find it difficult to understand why 6 you're going to allow the municipalities to continue to 7 build in flood planes, when eventually at some point, 8 it's going to catch up with everybody. Why don't you 9 just stop that now? 10 MR. HOELSCHER: And I think -- taking that 11 comment that you have in two pieces: one, it's a very 12 good comment and it's something -- implementation, at 13 least staff is going to take very seriously. 14 I will tell you without this program, do we have 15 the authority to tell them, you can't do this? MSD does 16 not. Do we have the ability to say, if this program is 17 going in place you can do this, but you will not be 18 reimbursed through that program? That is something -- 19 and that's a good comment. That's something MSD needs 20 to consider moving forward. 21 MR. CARMODY: But right now, it's not in the 22 program? 23 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, nothing that detailed is in 24 the program right now. But I will say, based on that 25 comment, if we're asked -- I'll commit right now, we'll TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 46Page 46Page 46Page 46 1 make sure something like that goes in the program. 2 I will tell you, the Rate Commission is sitting 3 here hearing these questions. And seeing them go like 4 this, they're going to insist that we put something like 5 that in the program. Am I reading the head language 6 correctly? 7 MR. MAHFOOD: Absolutely. 8 MR. CARMODY: So prior to the vote, that would be 9 in the program? 10 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes. Because what it consists of 11 is in that August 30, when the Rate Commission is done, 12 the next formal time to document that is their 13 recommendations to our board. That's a perfect place to 14 put that demand in, as part of the rate proposal. 15 MS. RUEMMLER: Could you clarify demand? What 16 he's talking about, the demand. 17 MR. HOELSCHER: Let's talk about a real, real 18 good idea. Demand is probably a wrong statement. 19 MR. BROCKMANN: Anything else, Michael? 20 MR. CARMODY: Thank you. That's it. 21 MR. BROCKMANN: Marilyn? 22 MS. RUEMMLER: Well, you're talking about sales. 23 Is there any way to require that municipalities and 24 everyone make a condition of any sale that the buyer is 25 informed that this isn't a flood plane, or otherwise, or TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 47Page 47Page 47Page 47 1 they're not covered? 2 MR. HOELSCHER: Again, outside of MSD -- oh. 3 That they're not covered by MSD's program? 4 MS. RUEMMLER: Well, I mean, if you don't put any 5 teeth in this, you know, if you're not going to say, if 6 you don't abide by or do something to prevent this -- I 7 mean, look. I mean, we see the same people on TV every 8 year, every other year; their houses are flooded. 9 And then you're going to go in and the rest of us 10 are paying for it. And these people know that this is 11 in a flood plane. And I just absolutely would not vote 12 for anything that would require us to pay for people who 13 choose to live in a flood plane. I will to not do it. 14 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. That's an opinion that's 15 been expressed by others. 16 MR. BATEMAN: May I add something to that? 17 MR. MAHFOOD: Go ahead. 18 MR. BATEMAN: If you eliminate their ability to 19 keep doing that year after year, as opposed to allowing 20 them to stay there and keep repetitively doing it every 21 other time it floods, in the end run, it saves us money. 22 MR. HOELSCHER: True. And that is, that exact 23 argue -- and I don't mean to put it that way, but the 24 folks that have the ability to do that under current 25 FEMA rules are the flood plane managers, who are the TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 48Page 48Page 48Page 48 1 municipal organizations, who allow that development to 2 be there, or allow it to be relocated. It doesn't fall 3 within MSD's purview to enforce that. 4 MR. BATEMAN: So we need to crack down on them. 5 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. I didn't say that. I'm 6 just letting you know where that particular piece of 7 stormwater sits from a regulatory perspective, who has 8 the authority to do what you're talking about. 9 MS. RUEMMLER: Which is absolutely why we 10 shouldn't be paying for it. We've got no control over 11 it, we can't correct it. But we're going to pay for it 12 anyway. And that is just ridiculous to ask us to do 13 that. 14 MR. BROCKMANN: Any other comments, Marilyn? 15 MS. RUEMMLER: It's wrong. We've got retired 16 people. We can't afford it. 17 MR. BROCKMANN: So noted. Anything else. 18 MS. RUEMMLER: No. 19 MR. BROCKMANN: Michael? Louise? 20 MS. LUTON: No. 21 MR. BROCKMANN: Jeff? 22 MR. BUCKLEY: Yes. I would want to emphasize, 23 too, that when you have the Corps of Engineers or the 24 state or local communities making decisions that runs 25 contrary to what is good from a stormwater or a runoff TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 49Page 49Page 49Page 49 1 type of thing, then the ratepayers of this whole thing 2 with MSD should be the one that bails them out, or pays 3 for that. 4 So however way it's written -- see, I don't mind 5 with the grandfathering in and taking care of people 6 that need it. But not this repeat, repeat, repeat or 7 let new people and entities outside of your authority to 8 make decisions, and then the ratepayers and MSD has to 9 clean up the mess. 10 So there's got to be some language in there that 11 says, we'll do it for what we can control. But if it's 12 something outside of our control, that would not -- I 13 don't care if it floods six times in the next six years, 14 you're stuck with it, you know. We're not going to pay 15 for it. 16 MR. BROCKMANN: Anything else, Jeff? 17 MR. BUCKLEY: That's it. Thank you. 18 MR. BROCKMANN: Robert? 19 MR. BROWN: Do you mean Brown? 20 MR. BROCKMANN: Yes. Robert Brown. 21 MR. BROWN: Hi. That's me. Couple things. One, 22 I would like to see something on a two-page document, 23 kind of setting this up. I've taken pictures off 24 the slide show. 25 MR. BROCKMANN: How can you address getting these TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 50Page 50Page 50Page 50 1 people that information? Do they need to give you an 2 e-mail address? 3 MR. LECOMB: There is a flier on our website 4 there, if you get to the website. 5 MR. BROWN: I'll find it. 6 MR. LECOMB: There's a one-page flier, front and 7 back. 8 MR. HOELSCHER: That gives a summation of this, 9 Lance? 10 MR. LECOMB: Yes. 11 MR. BROCKMANN: And if they want more 12 information, they can reach out to you? 13 MR. LECOMB: Yes. Under that Rate Commission, 14 there's this presentation -- the original presentation, 15 and there's a wealth of information on the website. If 16 you're seeing something there that you need and don't 17 see, certainly give me a call, and I can take care of 18 it. 19 MR. HOELSCHER: Lance, there's the summation 20 sheet, there's this presentation? 21 MR. LECOMB: No. The original -- so what is on 22 or website is the original presentation that was given 23 to the Rate Commission a couple months ago. It's a 24 little bit longer than this. I just say that because 25 it's in a little bit different format. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 51Page 51Page 51Page 51 1 And then there's a summation, and then there's 2 several pages of explanatory material about the Rate 3 Commission, about the rate itself. 4 And if you don't see there what you need, go 5 ahead and e-mail me or call me. We should be able to 6 fulfill your request. 7 MR. BROWN: Thank you. I just wanted something 8 simple. The other comment is taking away people's 9 rights to build. It's kind of a form of inverse 10 condemnation, and you have to pay for it. Not too sure 11 that's worth it. 12 MS. RUEMMLER: I'm sorry. I just have one more. 13 In terms of informing people. Everything you say is 14 like, Facebook, computers. You know, there's still a 15 lot of people out there that don't have those things. I 16 know in this day and age, you know -- 17 MR. BROCKMANN: So noted. 18 MS. RUEMMLER: -- we forget. But Afton, where we 19 live, is an older community. And there are a lot of 20 people that may go to the library and look something up 21 and do that. And the libraries are crowded. But I 22 would suggest maybe you find some other way to get to 23 those additional people. 24 MR. BRESNAN: I'll put my foot in my mouth here. 25 But the Rate Commission members take this very seriously TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 52Page 52Page 52Page 52 1 about getting this information out. 2 So we have to broaden the people that are 3 electronically minded; Facebook, Twitter, and things 4 likes that. 5 We've also sent a letter with a summary of all 6 this information to all of the municipal officials; the 7 mayors and other people like that. 8 So I would encourage you to go to those people. 9 They were sent a newsletter item that they could insert 10 into your newsletter here in the municipality, wherever 11 you live. 12 So I would ask that you go and get those people 13 involved to give you information, as well as give us 14 feedback. It's really important. 15 MS. RUEMMLER: You have to realize, a lot of 16 people don't even know they need to know this. 17 MR. BROCKMANN: I couldn't agree more. 18 MS. RUEMMLER: They don't know there's a meeting 19 about a rate increase. 20 So if you're going to evaluate an individual 21 property of theirs to determine what they're going to 22 pay, surely, if you're going to go that far, you could 23 at least send a postcard or something to let them know 24 what's going on. 25 MR. BROCKMANN: Lance, correct me if I'm wrong. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 53Page 53Page 53Page 53 1 Was there not a notice, or there will be a notice on 2 these public hearings on the billings? 3 MR. LECOMB: I don't know. You would have to ask 4 Patty. 5 MS. RUEMMLER: I mean, if you're going to come in 6 my yard and say, you have this much -- 7 MR. BROCKMANN: No. They wouldn't say that. 8 There should a notice; maybe we missed it. But we did 9 our best to try and get notice on all the MSD bills, 10 telling people about these public hearings; at least 11 where to go the website to get the dates. And we are 12 limited by a number of characters, so I don't know if 13 that happened. 14 MS. RUEMMLER: We got it from the free newspaper 15 that they throw in our yard. 16 MR. BROCKMANN: Okay. Let's move on. Patricia. 17 MS. MORAN: First of all, I want to thank you for 18 the presentation. Not knowing anything, I found it very 19 informative and I appreciate that. 20 But my question is about the credits and the 15 21 percent of impervious area on a larger -- if that's all, 22 the 15 percent of a larger -- why 15 percent versus 20 23 percent, versus -- how is that arrived at. 24 MR. HOELSCHER: Yeah. The 15 percent credit is 25 based on two things. It's based on what other entities TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 54Page 54Page 54Page 54 1 who put this in the chart have found to be an 2 appropriate amount to reflect the decrease in runoff. 3 And, Rich, maybe you can help me out here. What's the 4 basis of the 15 percent? 5 MR. UNVERFERTH: I thought it was more than that, 6 actually. It's -- could you get back to that slide? I 7 have to read it again. 8 MR. HOELSCHER: There we are. 9 MR. UNVERFERTH: It's actually a 35 percent 10 credit. It's equipped -- it gets right there, the last 11 sentence, it says mirrors the environmentally sensitive 12 development. It's part of the criteria that set forth 13 on what property -- runoff on properties will impact, 14 adjacent properties. 15 Right now, 30 percent of the entire impervious 16 area in the district is -- what I would say "not 17 billable." In other words, it's highways, streets, 18 sidewalks adjacent to the streets. We don't bill 19 anybody for those. So that's 30 percent of it. 20 And that's why you see the 70 percent credit for 21 those folks that drain directly to the rivers. And this 22 is actually half of that amount. In other words, it's 23 half of 70 percent. 24 And it also ties into the environmentally 25 sensitive development design and its design criteria. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 55Page 55Page 55Page 55 1 It's all pretty technical on how we arrived at that. 2 MS. MORAN: I guess my question was the first 3 line, not the credit. But how was the 15 percent of the 4 total area, why -- how is that calculated? Or how do 5 you come to that? I mean, it could have been 20 6 percent, if somebody's impervious area is less than 20 7 percent. 8 MR. BROWN: Impervious. 9 MS. MORAN: Impervious. Am I saying it wrong? 10 MR. BROWN: They were, too. 11 MR. HOELSCHER: So why did you make the cutoff no 12 more than 15 percent results in a credit. 13 MS. MORAN: That's all I need to know. What was 14 the criteria? 15 MR. UNVERFERTH: I'll have to get back with you. 16 MR. HOELSCHER: Rich, is this something we can 17 take the question and post an answer? Okay. There is a 18 engineering basis for it. 19 MR. UNVERFERTH: It's typically the definition 20 for low impact development. It's 15 percent in the 21 area. 22 MS. MORAN: Because I also think it would depend 23 on what was the other -- however much percent 85. Thank 24 you. What kind of area -- 25 MR. UNVERFERTH: Well, I mean that's based on the TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 56Page 56Page 56Page 56 1 assumption that it's green space. 2 MS. MORAN: It is. Okay. Thank you. 3 MR. BROCKMANN: Patricia, any other comments? 4 MS. MORAN: Thank you. Thank you for your time. 5 MR. BROCKMANN: Bryce? 6 MR. GRAY: No questions. 7 MR. BROCKMANN: Anybody have any final questions? 8 I'll turn it over to the Rate Commission members. Do 9 any of you have any questions. 10 MR. MAHFOOD: Not at this point. 11 MR. BROCKMANN: I just want to add that I really 12 do appreciate the time that you've taken to come here 13 tonight to give us this feedback. 14 I've done probably eight of these public hearings 15 in the last eight years. And this is the best feedback 16 we've ever had at a public hearing. I'm really 17 thrilled. It's really great to hear all this; we've had 18 a lot of good comments. 19 And I can assure you, the transcript is being 20 reported tonight and will be required reading for all 15 21 of the Rate Commission members. And there will be a lot 22 of good questions that will be presented to MSD and our 23 consultants for other -- evaluate everything that you 24 said this evening. 25 Hearing no other comments, I again thank you for TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 57Page 57Page 57Page 57 1 you time, and -- 2 MR. HOELSCHER: Mr. Chairman, before you do that. 3 I want to remind everybody if you have -- and this is me 4 that has to answer these questions, so I'm more than 5 willing to offer this. 6 If you have questions about other things that MSD 7 does, those three people back there in the blue shirts 8 with this emblem, please make sure you take advantage of 9 the fact that they're here and they can get you either 10 an answer tonight, or find an answer and get it to you 11 later on. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 12 MR. BROCKMANN: Our next public hearing will be 13 May 15th at 6:00 p.m. at the City of Bridgeton 14 Recreational Center. Thank you for coming. The meeting 15 is adjourned. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 58Page 58Page 58Page 58 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 STATE OF MISSOURI ) 3 ) ss. CITY OF ST. LOUIS ) 4 5 6 I, Georgia Beth Long, a Certified Court Reporter (MO), 7 Certified Shorthand Reporter (IL), do hereby certify 8 that the meeting aforementioned was held on the time and 9 in the place previously described. 10 11 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and 12 seal. 13 14 15 16 17 18 ____________________________ 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 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47:13 churcheschurcheschurcheschurches 16:6 circlecirclecirclecircle 45:4 citiescitiescitiescities 43:19 citizenscitizenscitizenscitizens 13:24 15:2 citycitycitycity 1:1 4:3 9:22 10:21 11:4 13:17 24:19 26:2 57:13 58:3 clarificationclarificationclarificationclarification 41:3 clarifyclarifyclarifyclarify 46:15 cleancleancleanclean 49:9 clipboardclipboardclipboardclipboard 6:18 collectcollectcollectcollect 10:2,6 18:17 28:25 29:1 32:6 collectedcollectedcollectedcollected 28:22 collectingcollectingcollectingcollecting 26:3 combinedcombinedcombinedcombined 11:2 comecomecomecome 14:14 32:8 32:9 53:5 55:5 56:12 COMELLOCOMELLOCOMELLOCOMELLO 23:13 24:10 41:21,23 comescomescomescomes 24:21 comingcomingcomingcoming 13:22 27:12,23 29:9 30:1 38:16 42:6 57:14 commentcommentcommentcomment 6:8 6:10 8:8,10 41:1,14 43:22 45:11,12,19,25 51:8 commentscommentscommentscomments 10:15 39:15 40:1,18 41:6,16 41:19 48:14 56:3,18,25 commercialcommercialcommercialcommercial 3:20 31:14,23 32:3,11 34:13 35:17 commercialscommercialscommercialscommercials 23:22,23 commissioncommissioncommissioncommission 1:9 2:3 3:3,6,11,18 4:1,4,6,10,10 4:15,17,20,24 5:5,25 27:24 28:5 29:4 36:10,12,18 37:9,11,16 38:11,15,17,21 39:2,14,22 40:1,18 41:2 46:2,11 50:13 50:23 51:3,25 56:8,21 commission'scommission'scommission'scommission's 3:19 37:12,14 40:24 commitcommitcommitcommit 42:16 45:25 committedcommittedcommittedcommitted 13:8 commoncommoncommoncommon 28:1 communicaticommunicaticommunicaticommunicati............ 22:21 communitiescommunitiescommunitiescommunities 48:24 communitycommunitycommunitycommunity 1:22 3:24 51:19 companycompanycompanycompany 42:4 compensatecompensatecompensatecompensate 24:9 completecompletecompletecomplete 16:12 computerscomputerscomputerscomputers 51:14 concernconcernconcernconcern 43:5 conclusionconclusionconclusionconclusion 38:16 concreteconcreteconcreteconcrete 11:15 17:9,9 18:4 34:5 condemnationcondemnationcondemnationcondemnation 51:10 conditionconditionconditioncondition 46:24 conductedconductedconductedconducted 5:12 5:23 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES conferenceconferenceconferenceconference 5:9 5:14,15,16 conferencesconferencesconferencesconferences 6:4 considerconsiderconsiderconsider 4:17 22:23 29:6 33:25 37:15 45:20 considerationconsiderationconsiderationconsideration 42:20 consistsconsistsconsistsconsists 4:1 9:21 46:10 ConstitutionConstitutionConstitutionConstitution 9:19 consultantconsultantconsultantconsultant 4:21 5:7 consultantsconsultantsconsultantsconsultants 56:23 ConsumersConsumersConsumersConsumers 5:3 contactcontactcontactcontact 39:20 containcontaincontaincontain 6:2 contextcontextcontextcontext 27:20 continuecontinuecontinuecontinue 13:25 25:8,19 27:19 45:6 continuouscontinuouscontinuouscontinuous 22:13 contrarycontrarycontrarycontrary 28:8 48:25 contributecontributecontributecontribute 29:7 contributingcontributingcontributingcontributing 31:9 33:5 contributionscontributionscontributionscontributions 17:20 controlcontrolcontrolcontrol 22:15 48:10 49:11,12 coordinatecoordinatecoordinatecoordinate 16:19 cornercornercornercorner 12:4 CorpsCorpsCorpsCorps 21:4 48:23 correctcorrectcorrectcorrect 19:23 21:9 22:7 33:23 40:20 40:21 43:24 48:11 52:25 correctlycorrectlycorrectlycorrectly 24:20 46:6 costcostcostcost 13:16 15:8 17:16 21:19,21 23:9 26:20,21 27:24 30:15 32:3 33:11,14 34:17 35:6,6 35:16 37:24 43:17 cost/benefitcost/benefitcost/benefitcost/benefit 21:24 costscostscostscosts 18:24 29:7 33:10 34:11 counselcounselcounselcounsel 4:20 countedcountedcountedcounted 34:7 countrycountrycountrycountry 11:6 28:2,17 30:9 CountyCountyCountyCounty 4:3 9:23,24 10:22 couplecouplecouplecouple 6:24 40:17 49:21 50:23 CourtCourtCourtCourt 2:22 28:12,21 58:6 courtroom-typecourtroom-typecourtroom-typecourtroom-type 36:23 covercovercovercover 9:6 11:9 coveredcoveredcoveredcovered 47:1,3 crackcrackcrackcrack 48:4 createdcreatedcreatedcreated 9:18 creationcreationcreationcreation 19:3 creditcreditcreditcredit 18:19 34:24 35:18 35:21 36:1 44:1,5,10 53:24 54:10 54:20 55:3,12 creditscreditscreditscredits 53:20 creekcreekcreekcreek 15:5,6 creekscreekscreekscreeks 12:10,13 14:12,15 16:14 19:19 25:2 33:5 34:19 criteriacriteriacriteriacriteria 21:12 54:12,25 55:14 criticalcriticalcriticalcritical 22:9 cross-examincross-examincross-examincross-examin............ 36:25 crowdedcrowdedcrowdedcrowded 51:21 CSRCSRCSRCSR 2:23 curbcurbcurbcurb 22:13 currentcurrentcurrentcurrent 4:9 35:4,9 37:10 47:24 currentlycurrentlycurrentlycurrently 4:1 9:2 9:9 11:16 12:3 27:1 33:18 42:19 customercustomercustomercustomer 30:18 32:3 33:9 34:2,9,12 35:11 customer'scustomer'scustomer'scustomer's 16:2 customerscustomerscustomerscustomers 10:22 30:7,16 31:13,14,15,15 32:10,16,21 33:2 cutoffcutoffcutoffcutoff 55:11 DDDD damagedamagedamagedamage 21:9 damageddamageddamageddamaged 20:21 datesdatesdatesdates 6:3 53:11 daydaydayday 11:1 51:16 daysdaysdaysdays 36:12,14 dealdealdealdeal 23:3 DecemberDecemberDecemberDecember 37:19 decidedecidedecidedecide 27:4,7,8 37:17,18 decidesdecidesdecidesdecides 37:20 decisionsdecisionsdecisionsdecisions 48:24 49:8 decreasedecreasedecreasedecrease 35:20 54:2 deemdeemdeemdeem 6:23 deficitsdeficitsdeficitsdeficits 19:21 definitiondefinitiondefinitiondefinition 55:19 delivereddelivereddelivereddelivered 37:13 demanddemanddemanddemand 46:14 46:15,16,18 denydenydenydeny 24:23 dependdependdependdepend 55:22 dependingdependingdependingdepending 38:4 describedescribedescribedescribe 10:6 18:20 describeddescribeddescribeddescribed 13:14 31:17 58:9 describingdescribingdescribingdescribing 5:16 descriptiondescriptiondescriptiondescription 5:18 18:9,12 designdesigndesigndesign 35:14 38:2 44:9 54:25,25 designeddesigneddesigneddesigned 20:9 35:4 detaileddetaileddetaileddetailed 37:3 45:23 detailsdetailsdetailsdetails 9:4 43:23 determinationdeterminationdeterminationdetermination 18:16 determinedeterminedeterminedetermine 9:15 25:9 43:4 52:21 determineddetermineddetermineddetermined 27:4 28:13 29:24 determiningdeterminingdeterminingdetermining 17:20,25 developdevelopdevelopdevelop 19:11,13 39:3 developeddevelopeddevelopeddeveloped 29:17 developersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopers 35:9 developmentdevelopmentdevelopmentdevelopment 16:22 19:10,16 22:16,24 25:1 35:7,23 38:19 48:1 54:12,25 55:20 developmentaldevelopmentaldevelopmentaldevelopmental 42:4 differentdifferentdifferentdifferent 7:16 13:4 38:9 50:25 differentiatesdifferentiatesdifferentiatesdifferentiates 30:10 differentlydifferentlydifferentlydifferently 14:8 difficultdifficultdifficultdifficult 45:5 directdirectdirectdirect 35:18 directlydirectlydirectlydirectly 17:13 39:20,25 41:1 54:21 directordirectordirectordirector 2:7 10:11,12 discoverydiscoverydiscoverydiscovery 5:8 distributedistributedistributedistribute 17:16 distributeddistributeddistributeddistributed 30:16 districtdistrictdistrictdistrict 1:9 2:3 3:3,9,12,14,22 6:6,10 7:4,20 9:8 12:23 13:4 13:10 17:17 22:23 31:19 54:16 district'sdistrict'sdistrict'sdistrict's 3:17 4:6 districtsdistrictsdistrictsdistricts 16:24 17:5 districtwidedistrictwidedistrictwidedistrictwide 9:3 9:4 11:12,22 13:23 14:22 ditchesditchesditchesditches 14:5 dividedividedividedivide 21:21 23:9 31:24 divideddivideddivideddivided 29:25 documentdocumentdocumentdocument 46:12 49:22 documenteddocumenteddocumenteddocumented 37:2 documentsdocumentsdocumentsdocuments 5:11 5:17 doingdoingdoingdoing 8:15 13:3 18:22 22:22 25:25 26:5 26:22 27:13 27:18 30:15 35:15 36:6 47:19,20 dollardollardollardollar 12:5 DonDonDonDon 2:6 3:7 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES doorsdoorsdoorsdoors 6:25 7:1 dotsdotsdotsdots 13:11,20 15:1 draindraindraindrain 54:21 drivewaysdrivewaysdrivewaysdriveways 17:9 29:23 drydrydrydry 43:8 EEEE EEEE2:1,1 e-maile-maile-maile-mail 8:20 50:2 51:5 earlierearlierearlierearlier 35:3 41:13 easementeasementeasementeasement 19:9 26:24 easiesteasiesteasiesteasiest 34:8,16 easteasteasteast 11:17,17 easyeasyeasyeasy 31:21 effectiveeffectiveeffectiveeffective 33:11 efficientefficientefficientefficient 33:14 eighteighteighteight 56:14,15 eithereithereithereither 57:9 electionelectionelectionelection 3:10 electronicallyelectronicallyelectronicallyelectronically 52:3 EleventhEleventhEleventhEleventh 2:24 eliminateeliminateeliminateeliminate 20:14 47:18 eliminatedeliminatedeliminatedeliminated 13:1 emblememblememblememblem 57:8 emphasizeemphasizeemphasizeemphasize 48:22 employeesemployeesemployeesemployees 10:11 encourageencourageencourageencourage 52:8 encroachencroachencroachencroach 14:18 endeavorendeavorendeavorendeavor 37:24 EnergyEnergyEnergyEnergy 5:3 enforceenforceenforceenforce 48:3 engagedengagedengagedengaged 4:20 5:7 engineeredengineeredengineeredengineered 34:4 engineeringengineeringengineeringengineering 10:12 29:16 55:18 EngineersEngineersEngineersEngineers 21:4 48:23 ensureensureensureensure 3:16 enterenterenterenter 7:2 19:19 entireentireentireentire 7:20 11:23 12:22 54:15 entitiesentitiesentitiesentities 16:6 32:5,12 49:7 53:25 environmentenvironmentenvironmentenvironment 44:13 environmentalenvironmentalenvironmentalenvironmental 3:23 environmentaenvironmentaenvironmentaenvironmenta............ 54:11,24 equippedequippedequippedequipped 54:10 equitablyequitablyequitablyequitably 30:16 equivalentequivalentequivalentequivalent 29:18 30:3,13 31:16 erodeerodeerodeerode 14:16 erosionerosionerosionerosion 13:9,19 14:15 15:5 34:25 39:12 ERUERUERUERU 30:3,12 31:17,20,25 32:4 33:1 35:17,21 ERUsERUsERUsERUs 30:1 32:1 32:23 34:14 34:14 especiallyespeciallyespeciallyespecially 44:13 establishedestablishedestablishedestablished 3:10 EstimatesEstimatesEstimatesEstimates 16:12 evaluateevaluateevaluateevaluate 44:24 52:20 56:23 evaluatingevaluatingevaluatingevaluating 36:22 eveningeveningeveningevening 3:1,4 5:24 7:4 45:4 56:24 eventuallyeventuallyeventuallyeventually 45:7 everybodyeverybodyeverybodyeverybody 8:23 43:10 45:8 57:3 exactexactexactexact 47:22 exactlyexactlyexactlyexactly 11:24 33:23 36:6 exampleexampleexampleexample 14:2 21:18 31:21 exceptionexceptionexceptionexception 16:24 exclusivelyexclusivelyexclusivelyexclusively 15:19 ExecutiveExecutiveExecutiveExecutive 2:7 9:23 exhibitsexhibitsexhibitsexhibits 36:24 existexistexistexist 20:16 exitsexitsexitsexits 7:1 expandexpandexpandexpand 6:22 expectexpectexpectexpect 43:9 explainexplainexplainexplain 9:13 31:22 37:8 explanatoryexplanatoryexplanatoryexplanatory 51:2 expressedexpressedexpressedexpressed 47:15 extensionextensionextensionextension 4:15 4:19 36:14 37:12 EzellEzellEzellEzell 23:21 FFFF FacebookFacebookFacebookFacebook 40:18,23 51:14 52:3 facilitiesfacilitiesfacilitiesfacilities 11:19 19:17 factfactfactfact 57:9 fairfairfairfair 3:16 8:18 fairestfairestfairestfairest 17:15 29:13 fallfallfallfall 7:17 19:12 33:12 34:20 35:1 48:2 fallsfallsfallsfalls 21:4 25:4,5 farfarfarfar 52:22 fastfastfastfast 14:8 FebruaryFebruaryFebruaryFebruary 4:4 5:5 36:11 38:23 federalfederalfederalfederal 23:13,19 24:12 feedbackfeedbackfeedbackfeedback 52:14 56:13,15 feelfeelfeelfeel 27:5 41:20 feesfeesfeesfees 28:11 feetfeetfeetfeet 29:19,22 30:4,20 31:1,5 31:11,17,24,25 32:24 35:12 44:10 45:1 feltfeltfeltfelt 28:8 FEMAFEMAFEMAFEMA 24:8 47:25 fencefencefencefence 14:17 figurefigurefigurefigure 44:7 filedfiledfiledfiled 5:2 filledfilledfilledfilled 14:5 finalfinalfinalfinal 22:12 56:7 finallyfinallyfinallyfinally 14:15 31:10 findfindfindfind 7:19 8:3 30:12 42:16,17 45:5 50:5 51:22 57:10 findingfindingfindingfinding 10:8 firstfirstfirstfirst 9:6,17 11:10 16:10 22:7 32:6 36:6 37:7 53:17 55:2 fiscalfiscalfiscalfiscal 32:7 38:18 fivefivefivefive 22:11 flierflierflierflier 50:3,6 floodfloodfloodflood 14:7,13 15:13,18,20,21 16:18,21,23 19:7,8 20:4,6 20:7,9,10,12 20:12 21:11,13 21:14,14,15,18 22:4,5,7,10,14 22:16,19,24 23:14,18,20 23:20,24,25 24:3,6,15,22 24:25 25:6,9 25:13,15,17 26:5 42:3,6 45:7 46:25 47:11,13,25 floodedfloodedfloodedflooded 21:19 21:20 24:7,17 43:10 47:8 floodingfloodingfloodingflooding 13:9,19 14:4,11 17:12 20:21 21:2 23:2,9 24:12 25:16 34:25 39:13 floodsfloodsfloodsfloods 47:21 49:13 flowsflowsflowsflows 33:5 44:23 focusingfocusingfocusingfocusing 3:23 folksfolksfolksfolks 11:8 14:11 18:12 19:6,11 24:2 27:3 32:23 33:3,6 33:12 47:24 54:21 followfollowfollowfollow 7:11 37:3 followedfollowedfollowedfollowed 6:10 followingfollowingfollowingfollowing 3:5 footfootfootfoot 51:24 footagefootagefootagefootage 44:6 forgetforgetforgetforget 51:18 formformformform 51:9 formalformalformalformal 46:12 formallyformallyformallyformally 42:14 formatformatformatformat 50:25 forthforthforthforth 54:12 forwardforwardforwardforward 7:18 28:6 29:4,5 37:21 45:20 foundfoundfoundfound 28:11 29:20 53:18 54:1 fourfourfourfour 30:15,19 four-tierfour-tierfour-tierfour-tier 30:8 four-yearfour-yearfour-yearfour-year 38:14 fourthfourthfourthfourth 11:5 freefreefreefree 41:20 53:14 frontfrontfrontfront 37:21 38:11 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 38:17 39:14 50:6 fulfillfulfillfulfillfulfill 51:6 fullfullfullfull 32:6 35:18 fundfundfundfund 11:12 13:6 16:4 fundingfundingfundingfunding 15:23 16:11 27:2 38:10,18 39:12 fundsfundsfundsfunds 13:7 26:4 28:1,24 futurefuturefuturefuture 18:25 19:3,6,21 27:1 29:7 GGGG gallonsgallonsgallonsgallons 11:1 garagegaragegaragegarage 15:6 gardengardengardengarden 35:13 gasgasgasgas 28:4 generalgeneralgeneralgeneral 3:10 9:7 24:11 generategenerategenerategenerate 15:24 32:12 generatesgeneratesgeneratesgenerates 17:11 generatinggeneratinggeneratinggenerating 30:17 gentlemangentlemangentlemangentleman 28:7 GeorgiaGeorgiaGeorgiaGeorgia 2:22 58:6 gettinggettinggettinggetting 14:18 15:5 35:18 38:14 40:5 49:25 52:1 givegivegivegive 8:17 9:1,7 18:9 24:24 35:14 42:13 50:1,17 52:13 52:13 56:13 givengivengivengiven 24:22 50:22 givesgivesgivesgives 12:20 50:8 gogogogo7:16,18 8:2 9:9 11:7 12:10 14:8 23:9 24:8 24:14,18 26:12 34:10,11,15,19 37:2 38:17,24 39:9,21 40:19 41:12,18 46:3 47:9,17 51:4 51:20 52:8,12 52:22 53:11 goesgoesgoesgoes 46:1 goinggoinggoinggoing 7:7,14,16 7:19 8:13 9:1,6 9:7,8,13 10:7 10:10 13:14,16 13:16 15:15 17:8 18:6,12 18:20 22:6,8 22:13,24 24:14,23 25:3 27:6,20 28:20 29:14 29:15,17 31:15 31:20 32:25 33:6,9,13,15 34:23 35:8,20 36:15 37:3 38:6 39:5 42:8,11,23,25 45:4,6,8,13,17 46:4 47:5,9 48:11 49:14 52:20,21,22 52:24 53:5 goodgoodgoodgood 3:1 44:13 45:4,12,19 46:18 48:25 56:18,22 governgoverngoverngovern 4:8 governancegovernancegovernancegovernance 9:21 governedgovernedgovernedgoverned 9:20 governmentgovernmentgovernmentgovernment 9:18 17:23 gradedgradedgradedgraded 14:8 grandfatheringgrandfatheringgrandfatheringgrandfathering 49:5 grantedgrantedgrantedgranted 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hypotheticallyhypotheticallyhypotheticallyhypothetically 19:20 IIII ideaideaideaidea 8:13 21:16 46:18 identifiedidentifiedidentifiedidentified 12:14 13:19 15:11 16:13 40:10 identifyidentifyidentifyidentify 6:14 identifyingidentifyingidentifyingidentifying 5:10 ignorantignorantignorantignorant 8:15 ILILILIL 58:7 IllinoisIllinoisIllinoisIllinois 2:23 immediatelyimmediatelyimmediatelyimmediately 38:1 impactimpactimpactimpact 34:3 35:23 36:4 44:15,21 54:13 55:20 impactedimpactedimpactedimpacted 17:13 impactsimpactsimpactsimpacts 12:12 imperviousimperviousimperviousimpervious 16:1 16:8 17:7,7,17 17:18 19:4,14 20:20 27:24 29:6,10,12,19 29:22 30:1,10 30:21 31:1,8,9 31:11,24 32:22 33:4 34:9,10 34:15 35:12 35:24 36:2,5 44:1,6 45:1 53:21 54:15 55:6,8,9 impervious-bimpervious-bimpervious-bimpervious-b............ 27:22 implementimplementimplementimplement 15:24 implementatiimplementatiimplementatiimplementati............ 45:12 implementedimplementedimplementedimplemented TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 28:7 importantimportantimportantimportant 27:6 38:8 52:14 incentiveincentiveincentiveincentive 34:3 35:15 incentivesincentivesincentivesincentives 33:24,24 inchinginchinginchinginching 14:17 includeincludeincludeinclude 15:12 18:25 includedincludedincludedincluded 20:3 includingincludingincludingincluding 3:22 4:19 17:23 increaseincreaseincreaseincrease 19:14 52:19 independentindependentindependentindependent 4:21 indicatedindicatedindicatedindicated 33:8 individualindividualindividualindividual 16:19 21:5 22:18 25:6 30:11 42:5 52:20 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maintainmaintainmaintainmaintain 11:13 11:20,22 12:21 maintainingmaintainingmaintainingmaintaining 26:20 maintenancemaintenancemaintenancemaintenance 26:22 makingmakingmakingmaking 48:24 managemanagemanagemanage 16:22 managementmanagementmanagementmanagement 35:2 managersmanagersmanagersmanagers 16:22 22:19 25:6 47:25 manholesmanholesmanholesmanholes 11:14 mapmapmapmap 12:2 13:11 13:12 mappedmappedmappedmapped 23:20 24:3 MarchMarchMarchMarch 4:8 MarilynMarilynMarilynMarilyn 46:21 48:14 materialmaterialmaterialmaterial 51:2 mathmathmathmath 31:21 maximummaximummaximummaximum 6:20 MayorMayorMayorMayor 9:22 mayorsmayorsmayorsmayors 52:7 meanmeanmeanmean 26:7 47:4 47:7,7,23 49:19 53:5 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 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organizationorganizationorganizationorganization 6:15 organizationsorganizationsorganizationsorganizations 3:16,20,21,23 3:25,25 4:2 48:1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES originaloriginaloriginaloriginal 50:14 50:21,22 originallyoriginallyoriginallyoriginally 36:12 outcomesoutcomesoutcomesoutcomes 37:23 outreachoutreachoutreachoutreach 29:10 outsideoutsideoutsideoutside 47:2 49:7,12 overviewoverviewoverviewoverview 9:17 ownedownedownedowned 11:18 17:23 ownerownerownerowner 26:13 owningowningowningowning 25:22 26:14 ownsownsownsowns 26:17 PPPP PPPP2:1,1 P.EP.EP.EP.E 2:8 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Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES properproperproperproper 17:20 19:14 propertiespropertiespropertiesproperties 17:22,23 18:17 19:7 20:6,7,23 26:5,14 30:11 30:13,23 31:2 31:4 32:25 34:19 35:24 42:3,18,25 54:13,14 propertypropertypropertyproperty 12:5,6 12:6,7 14:19 16:2,15 19:9,13 20:3,4 26:10 26:10,12,13,17 26:25 29:20 29:22 30:20 30:25 31:10 31:23 34:19 35:25 42:5,7 42:11 43:2 44:2 52:21 54:13 proposalproposalproposalproposal 4:25 6:7 9:13 10:16 13:24 14:24 15:19,22,23 17:24 18:19,23 24:18 29:5 30:22 36:9,10 36:22 37:4,8 38:14,20,23 38:25 39:12 41:15 44:24 46:14 proposeproposeproposepropose 13:14 16:18 21:8,10 34:3 37:15 proposedproposedproposedproposed 3:13 4:12 6:21 9:1 17:13 27:23 29:24,25 32:13 37:16 38:18 proposingproposingproposingproposing 4:5 7:19 9:3 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41:2 46:2,11,14 50:13,23 51:2 51:3,25 52:19 56:8,21 rate'srate'srate'srate's 16:1 ratepayerratepayerratepayerratepayer 6:14 6:15,20 ratepayersratepayersratepayersratepayers 5:21 27:4 49:1,8 ratesratesratesrates 3:12,13,13 4:6,12 39:5 ratioratioratioratio 21:22,24 23:11,11 rationalerationalerationalerationale 5:19 17:7 27:22 reachreachreachreach 50:12 readreadreadread 37:3 54:7 readingreadingreadingreading 46:5 56:20 readyreadyreadyready 7:4 14:18 15:5 realrealrealreal 46:17,17 realizerealizerealizerealize 52:15 reallyreallyreallyreally 9:12 52:14 56:11,16 56:17 rearrearrearrear 6:18 reasonreasonreasonreason 33:8 39:1 reasonsreasonsreasonsreasons 29:9 rebuildrebuildrebuildrebuild 15:16 receivereceivereceivereceive 10:4 receivedreceivedreceivedreceived 4:5 5:6 receivingreceivingreceivingreceiving 33:2 33:18 recognizedrecognizedrecognizedrecognized 6:19 14:12 recommendrecommendrecommendrecommend 29:5 recommendarecommendarecommendarecommenda............ 4:11 36:17 37:12,15 recommendarecommendarecommendarecommenda............ 3:11 46:13 recommendedrecommendedrecommendedrecommended 28:6 recommendingrecommendingrecommendingrecommending 24:16 recordrecordrecordrecord 5:12 recouprecouprecouprecoup 42:11 43:1,14 recoupingrecoupingrecoupingrecouping 43:17 RecreationalRecreationalRecreationalRecreational 57:14 redevelopedredevelopedredevelopedredeveloped 26:25 redevelopmentredevelopmentredevelopmentredevelopment 16:22 22:16 reducereducereducereduce 34:8,13 34:16 36:4 reducingreducingreducingreducing 23:8 34:14 referencereferencereferencereference 30:12 refixrefixrefixrefix 15:16 reflectreflectreflectreflect 54:2 refundrefundrefundrefund 28:23 28:24 regardingregardingregardingregarding 3:12 6:1,21 7:3 39:11 regionalregionalregionalregional 14:11 regulateregulateregulateregulate 24:2 regulationsregulationsregulationsregulations 35:5 regulatoryregulatoryregulatoryregulatory 12:16 12:24 19:12 24:25 35:9 48:7 reimbursereimbursereimbursereimburse 35:9 reimbursedreimbursedreimbursedreimbursed 45:18 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 5/8/2018 www.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.uswww.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES relativelyrelativelyrelativelyrelatively 31:21 relocatedrelocatedrelocatedrelocated 48:2 remediationremediationremediationremediation 18:24 rememberrememberrememberremember 11:11 27:11,22 33:25 remindremindremindremind 57:3 reminderreminderreminderreminder 11:7 removeremoveremoveremove 34:8,10 34:15 removingremovingremovingremoving 35:18 repairrepairrepairrepair 12:21 repairsrepairsrepairsrepairs 18:24 repeatrepeatrepeatrepeat 49:6,6,6 repeatsrepeatsrepeatsrepeats 27:19 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