HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 61 - Transcript of the May 22, 2018 Public Hearing RATE COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING 5/22/2018
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1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
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3 Rate Commission Public Hearing
4 May 22, 2018
5 Maryland Heights Community Center
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15 REPORTED BY:
16 Ms. Julie Johanning, CCR
Alaris Litigation Services
17 711 North Eleventh Street
18 St. Louis, Missouri 63101
19 314-644-2191
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4 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
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6 Rate Commission Public Hearing
7 May 22, 2018
8 Maryland Heights Community Center
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17 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE RATE
18 COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING on the 22nd day of May, 2018,
19 between the hours of 6:05 p.m. in the evening and 7:25 p.m.
20 in the evening of that day, at Maryland Heights Community
21 Center, 2300 McKelvey Road, Maryland Heights, Missouri,
22 before JULIE A. JOHANNING, Certified Court Reporter within
23 and for the State of Missouri.
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1 A P P E A R A N C E S
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4 MSD FY2018 RATE COMMISSION:
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6 Mr. Steve Mahfood, Chairman
7 Missouri Coalition for the Environment
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9 Mr. Lloyd Palans
City of Ladue
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11 Mr. Brad Goss
HBA
12
13 Mr. Chan Mahanta
North County, Incorporated
14
Mr. Don Bresnan
15 Greater St. Louis Labor Council
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17 ALSO PRESENT:
18 Mr. Brian Hoelscher
MSD - Executive Director & CEO
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23 Ms. Julie Johanning, CCR
24 Alaris Litigation Services
711 North Eleventh Street
25 St. Louis, Missouri 63101
314-644-2191
25 314-644-2191
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1 (Hearing commenced at 6:05 p.m.)
2 MR. MAHFOOD: I think we're going to go ahead
3 and get started. It's five after six and we've had -- we
4 have so far limited attendance. I'd just ask that
5 everybody just be flexible if we have somebody come in.
6 I'm hoping that we'll have a lot of people come in as we go
7 through this. You probably saw that there is a sign-up
8 sheet at the door for anybody who wants to speak. I would
9 appreciate you signing up over here on the list. And we'll
10 be -- we'll be talking about that in just a few minutes. I
11 think you probably -- good evening.
12 MS. SEID: Hi.
13 MR. MAHFOOD: How are you doing?
14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good.
15 MR. MAHFOOD: Good. We've got -- I think you
16 know where the exits are, how to get into the room.
17 Restrooms are right off to the right here, pretty
18 accessible.
19 And what we're going to do this evening will
20 entail a few different parts. I'm going to read a
21 statement here in just a minute or so. Then we're going to
22 hear from the Metropolitan Sewer District on the stormwater
23 rate plan. Then we will be here and I will be chairing and
24 receiving the comments from the public and any other
25 questions that the public may have, and I'll get these to
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1 the MSD staff as needed. And then we'll go from there. So
2 I'm going to go ahead and read a standard background that I
3 think would be very important for you all to hear, and I'm
4 going to get started on that right now.
5 I'll just say good evening. My name is Steve
6 Mahfood, and I'm one of the members of the Rate Commission.
7 With me here -- next to me here is Lloyd Palans. Next to
8 him is Brad Goss, Chan Mahanta and Don Bresnan. And we're
9 all from varying and different backgrounds, all serving as
10 volunteers on the Metropolitan Sewer District's Rate
11 Commission.
12 Now, the charter plan of the district was
13 amended at a general election on November 7th of 2000 and
14 established at that time the Rate Commission to review and
15 make recommendations to the District regarding changes in
16 wastewater rates, stormwater rates, and tax rates proposed
17 by the District. The charter plan requires the MSD Board
18 of Trustees to select organizations to ensure a fair
19 representation of all users of the District's services on
20 the Rate Commission. The Rate Commission representative
21 organizations are to represent commercial/industrial users,
22 residential users, and other organizations interested in
23 the operation of the District including organizations
24 focusing on environmental issues, labor issues,
25 socioeconomic issues, community neighborhood organizations,
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1 and other non-profit organizations. The MSD Rate
2 Commission currently consists of 15 members from
3 organizations and institutions throughout St. Louis City
4 and County.
5 On February 26, 2018, the Rate Commission
6 received a rate change notice proposing changes to the
7 District's stormwater rates. Now, the Rate Commission
8 adopted an operational rules and procedure schedule to
9 govern the proceedings, and we did that on March 4th of
10 2018. And all this is happening in open meetings.
11 Under the current procedural schedule adopted
12 by the Rate Commission, the MSD Rate Commission has until
13 June 26th to review and make a recommendation to the MSD
14 Board of Trustees as to whether the proposed rates should
15 be approved. I think I might have -- yeah, that's the
16 correct date, to review and make a recommendation to the
17 MSD Board. The Commission requested an extension from the
18 MSD Board of Trustees until August 10th of 2018, and that
19 was granted on May 1st of 2018. The Commission considered
20 on May 17th a new revised schedule including the extension,
21 time extension, and that was granted by the MSD Board. The
22 MSD Rate Commission has engaged legal counsel and a rate
23 consultant independent of those used by the Metropolitan
24 Sewer District staff.
25 Under the procedural rules adopted by the Rate
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1 Commission as they were amended, any person affected by the
2 rate change proposal has an opportunity to submit an
3 application -- or had an opportunity to submit an
4 application to intervene on these proceedings. An
5 application to intervene has been filed by the Missouri
6 Industrial Energy Consumers. That application was granted
7 and they are involved with this process.
8 Since February 26th of this year, the MSD Rate
9 Commission has received testimony from MSD staff, the rate
10 consultant that we have, and intervenors. The parties have
11 also engaged in formal discovery requests. Pre-hearing
12 conference for the purpose of identifying any issues raised
13 by these rate setting documents that were provided and the
14 prepared testimony previously submitted will and have been
15 all conducted on record, court reporters, and in public
16 meetings.
17 All persons submitting testimony may
18 participate in the pre-hearing conference, and each
19 participant at the pre-hearing conferences shall submit a
20 pre-hearing conference report describing the issues raised
21 by the rate setting documents and to prepare testimony
22 together with a brief description of such participant's
23 position, if any, on each of the issues and their rationale
24 for questioning whatever it is that they may have been
25 concerned with.
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1 Rate payers who do not wish to intervene in
2 that formal process are permitted to participate in these
3 on-the-record public hearings conducted in seven sessions
4 that began on May 8th, 2018. Now, the Rate Commission
5 published a notice regarding these proceedings in the
6 Post-Dispatch, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, and St.~Louis
7 American, and in a whole number of other sites and in
8 contact with local municipalities. These notices contained
9 the time, dates and location of each of the conferences and
10 hearings. And I'll tell you in just a second, we have some
11 more coming up after this one.
12 The public hearing session today is for the
13 purpose of permitting the District to present its
14 stormwater rate change proposal and to permit any rate
15 payer an opportunity to comment or ask questions. We're
16 going to begin, as I said before, with a presentation by
17 the District followed by a public comment period. The
18 District is going to be presenting a lot of information, so
19 I'd ask that you hold your questions until the comment
20 period, as perhaps many of your initial questions might be
21 answered in the presentation.
22 Those wishing to speak, again, should sign on
23 a sheet provided up at this desk. Please feel free to get
24 up even in the middle of all of this. Let's not be too
25 formal. If you want to sign up, that works great. Because
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1 we'll use the list as the order in which we call on people
2 if they so desire to ask a question or make a comment. And
3 I ask that each rate payer identify themselves and any
4 organizations that they might represent, if they do
5 represent an organization.
6 A couple of housekeeping rules, sign up as we
7 said. Speakers will be recognized in the order in which
8 they sign up. Try to hold things to up to no more than ten
9 minutes. But that's up to my judgment as to how that goes.
10 If you've not already done so, please turn off your cell
11 phones if you can. And I think I already said, we know
12 where the doors are and we know where the restrooms are
13 right out the side door there.
14 Before I ask the District to come up and
15 proceed, I wanted to ask anybody, have any initial
16 questions, just to ask? Yes, ma'am?
17 MS. SEID: How long will the presentation
18 take?
19 MR. MAHFOOD: Oh --
20 MS. SEID: Not counting discussion, I'm sorry.
21 MR. HOELSCHER: 15, 20 minutes.
22 MS. SEID: Okay, thank you.
23 MR. MAHFOOD: Any other questions? Yes,
24 ma'am?
25 MS. SHENKER: You will not have anything here
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1 where you can project something on the screen here at all,
2 correct?
3 MS. SEID: I thought that's what --
4 MR. MAHFOOD: Yeah, that's what -- he'll be
5 presenting using --
6 MS. SHENKER: He will be presenting it?
7 MR. MAHFOOD: Yes, ma'am.
8 MS. SHENKER: Okay. So like the public notice
9 that was in the paper showing the rates and what it was
10 going to be will be shown?
11 MR. MAHFOOD: Yes, it will.
12 MS. SHENKER: Okay. Thank you.
13 MR. MAHFOOD: He will go through a whole
14 explanation. And please, if you have questions or you see
15 something that you don't -- you think is confusing or not
16 clear, write it down and please follow up with it. Don't
17 hesitate, please.
18 MS. SHENKER: Thank you.
19 MR. MAHFOOD: Okay. With that, I'll ask
20 Director Hoelscher to come up and do his thing.
21 MR. HOELSCHER: I'll go over here so I'm close
22 enough to everybody. Brian Hoelscher. I'm the Executive
23 Director and CEO here at MSD. We're going to give a
24 presentation on the rate proposal. I'm going to give you a
25 little background information first on MSD as a whole, then
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1 I'm going to tell you where we're at with our existing
2 stormwater services, so you'll understand what services
3 we're providing now and where those revenues come from.
4 Then I'll dive into -- the balance and the majority of the
5 presentation will be what it is we submitted -- the
6 proposal we submitted in front of the Rate Commission.
7 As the Chairman indicated, after this is done,
8 any comments you have regarding that, the Rate Commission
9 is going to take comments on the rate change proposal we
10 have up here. I have a lot of staff with me in these blue
11 shirts. MSD provides a lot of other services. So after
12 this rate proposal discussion and after the Rate Commission
13 has closed the meeting, staff will hang around and answer
14 any other questions you have about any other issues at MSD.
15 We'll be able to try and answer those this evening as well.
16 So first all, an overview of MSD. We're a
17 government entity. We are created under an amendment to
18 the state constitution. We have a voter approved charter
19 which serves as kind of our set of laws as to how MSD is
20 governed. We have a three-member board of trustees -- a
21 six-member board of trustees. Three are appointed by the
22 mayor of the City of St.~Louis, three are appointed by the
23 county executive.
24 It's important to remember we are two
25 utilities, a wastewater utility and a stormwater utility.
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1 We collect separate sets of revenues, provide separate
2 services, and we can't mix either the providing of services
3 or those revenues. Those revenues are dedicated to those
4 two particular services.
5 We have a service area of 520 square miles,
6 which right now is all of the City of St.~Louis and just
7 under 90 percent of St.~Louis County, it's out to about 109
8 in Wildwood, 1.3 million customers, and there's 88 separate
9 municipalities located within our service area. We have
10 seven treatment plants and we treat about
11 350 million gallons of wastewater a day. And if you add up
12 the miles of sewers that you see there, you come up with
13 about 9,500 miles of sewers. That makes us the fourth
14 largest sewer system in the country just be behind Los
15 Angeles.
16 MS. SEID: Really? Wow.
17 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, which is one of the
18 reasons we're sitting here having this discussion.
19 The most recent action was Proposition S.
20 That was in April 2016. It came to the voters. That
21 proposition passed. The issue we addressed with
22 Proposition S was that when MSD's boundaries were extended
23 in 1989 for stormwater for west of 270 and west of
24 Lindbergh, MSD became responsible for owning and operating
25 the public storm sewer system in that area as well as its
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1 original area. They were given the assets to operate and
2 maintain, but there were no revenues set up to do that
3 operation and maintenance.
4 So since 1989, we owned those assets, inlets,
5 manholes, storm sewers, full concrete paved channels. We
6 owned them, but there was no money to operate and maintain
7 them. And they were starting to get in bad enough shape,
8 something needed to be done. So what happened was
9 Proposition S passed. They put a district-wide tax in
10 place throughout our entire district, so everybody for the
11 purposes of operation and maintenance of the public storm
12 sewer system pays the same tax and gets provided exactly
13 the same service.
14 So what happened with Prop S? This is a
15 summation of where things stand today. So if you see on
16 the upper left-hand corner there, there's a 0.0188 cent
17 regulatory tax. That's a two-cent per hundred dollar
18 valuation property tax that shows up on your property tax
19 bill. If you look at your latest property tax bill and
20 find the smallest number, that's MSD. That's this
21 particular tax.
22 That tax pays for the regulatory part of
23 stormwater. MSD is tasked with addressing the pollutants
24 that are in stormwater runoff that affect the water quality
25 of local creeks and streams. That number produces a
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1 revenue that allows us to meet all of our regulatory needs
2 for stormwater. It's been in place since 1979 and was
3 specifically identified before the Hancock Amendment, and
4 it's been sufficient since 1979.
5 The second tax you'll see is -- it's now a
6 9.71-cent stormwater tax per hundred dollar valuation.
7 That's Proposition S that I just described. That number
8 gets adjusted based on property values. That number is in
9 place. It was only passed two years ago. It now allows us
10 to operate and maintain the storm sewer systems that we
11 own, the public storm sewer systems throughout the
12 district.
13 What the passing of Prop S did, it allowed us
14 to eliminate two revenue sources that paid for some
15 stormwater services. It allowed us to take 21 other taxing
16 subdistricts in discrete areas throughout the district that
17 were paying a special tax and set that at zero. So you
18 take those 23 different funds that had some amount of money
19 in all of them and we end up with a pot of $67 million.
20 What we command is what you see on this map.
21 If those of you -- it's still on our website if you want to
22 look. This is the map we used prior to Proposition S.
23 What you see are dots. Those dots are projects. And if
24 you went on our website and took a look, there's a number
25 inside of each one of those dots that goes to a spreadsheet
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1 that says, we are going to do this project to address this
2 issue by doing this, spend this amount of money, and have
3 it done by this date. So that is on our website right now.
4 We're in the process of doing -- at least 30 percent of
5 those projects are completed. There's a lot more designed.
6 And we're working our way through $67 million worth of
7 projects for stormwater flooding and erosion throughout the
8 entire district.
9 So where that leaves us is, once we've spent
10 that $67 million for flooding and erosion, there's no more
11 money left. There's no more money coming into the pot to
12 provide that service district-wide. The rate proposal
13 we've set in front of our Rate Commission is a proposal to
14 provide a district-wide revenue to continue doing work for
15 stormwater and flooding district-wide.
16 And these are the kind of problems we're
17 talking about. Localized flooding. There's folks when
18 storms happen, either because the way yards are graded,
19 because ditches are blocked, because somebody put a
20 swimming pool through a swale, or just over time water
21 sits, doesn't get away fast enough on streets or yards.
22 This fund will help address those issues.
23 Regional flooding, and that's more like folks
24 who are next to local creeks and streams. when we get
25 real, real heavy rains they experience flooding that occurs
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1 from living next to those water sources. And then along
2 with the water is erosion issues and the creek banks and
3 streams that will affect roadways, affect people's
4 properties, those types of things. These are the kind of
5 problems that are getting resolved with that 67 million I
6 indicated. These are the kind of problems we're putting a
7 rate proposal in front of the Rate Commission to say let's
8 provide -- see if the citizens would like for us to provide
9 a program to continue addressing these throughout the
10 district.
11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can I ask one question?
12 Does Proposition S, does that end? That funding that
13 comes, does that end in four years or something?
14 MR. HOELSCHER: No. It's a 10-cent tax that's
15 for continuous operation and maintenance of the existing
16 public storm sewer system.
17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's not projects?
18 MR. HOELSCHER: No, it's not projects. Now,
19 to be clear, you may see projects coming out of it. For
20 instance, we may need a project in order to replace the
21 existing systems because it's gotten old. But it's not to
22 build new systems or to address any of these issues.
23 How big is the issue? We collect stormwater
24 issues from a lot of places. Most of them come from the
25 residents. Sometimes cities will collect their residents'
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1 issues and they will send them to us. We've identified
2 about 500 different issues that have been reported to us.
3 We're estimating the cost to take care of all of those
4 problems, kind of a preliminary number, is about
5 $562 million if we were to resolve all of those
6 district-wide. That's the size of the issue that we're
7 looking to try to address.
8 What's the proposal? The proposal is to
9 implement a Stormwater Capital Rate that will generate
10 $30 million a year in revenue. It will be based on the
11 amount of impervious area that's on everybody's property.
12 Impervious area is an area that when rain hits it it
13 doesn't soak into the ground because it's not grass. That
14 would be roof tops, concrete driveways, sidewalks, places
15 where rain hits and runs off. The amount of impervious
16 area you have would be the basis for the amount of
17 contribution to the program. We're planning on tax exempt
18 entities will pay this. So churches, schools, city halls,
19 airports will all pay this rate.
20 Again, we'll address the unfunded stormwater
21 issues which are flooding and erosion that exist throughout
22 the District's boundaries. Creeks and streams, as they are
23 now, will remain privately owned. They've always been like
24 that. And the management of the flood plains, as far as
25 what do you do with new development or what do you do with
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1 existing development that sees flooding, those
2 responsibilities currently sit with the flood plain
3 managers at the individual municipalities in the county.
4 That's per state statute. They will remain there. They
5 will remain as flood plain managers.
6 Okay. Again, I mentioned impervious rate.
7 It's a hard surface, concrete, blacktop, roof, in some
8 cases compacted gravel. It's compacted hard enough where
9 you pour water on it and it runs off. Those are impervious
10 areas. The problems we are addressing, flooding and
11 erosion, are directly impacted by the stormwater runoff
12 that's created by impervious areas. Therefore, the fairest
13 way to determine the revenue contribution of each property
14 is to base it on the amount of impervious area on each
15 property. It's a commonly used method throughout the
16 United States for figuring out how to fund programs like
17 this.
18 I won't hit this too long. But some of you
19 may remember about ten years ago we tried to put a
20 stormwater impervious rate in place similar to our
21 wastewater rate. We followed a lot of the lessons learned
22 from a lot of states and utilities throughout the country.
23 We followed that example. By the time we got done,
24 ultimately the state supreme court indicated that that rate
25 was unconstitutional because it was not voted on. So even
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1 though we followed the example from other states throughout
2 the country, it turns out the determination was in Missouri
3 we have to vote on something. So after that, also on
4 previous -- or subsequent meetings and rate proposals, the
5 rate Commission has always expressed the desire that
6 services be provided based on an impervious-based method.
7 So that's why we're moving forward.
8 Here's how the capital rate is calculated.
9 There's something called an ERU. That's Equivalent
10 Residential Unit. It is the measure of the average number
11 of square feet of impervious area on a residential
12 property. In MSD's boundaries, the average residential
13 property has 2,600 square feet of impervious area. And
14 this is as you look from up above, an aerial photography,
15 looking down. So it's the rooftop, driveways, whatever the
16 footprint is on your property.
17 The rate was determined by the recommended
18 capital improvements, which is about $30 million per year,
19 divided by the total number of ERUs. That's how we come up
20 with the proposed rate. So based on that calculation, each
21 equivalent residential unit would be charged $2.25 per
22 month. Now, that's not going to be completely clear. This
23 next slide will help show some real world examples I think
24 that will help.
25 So for single-family residential customers,
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1 we're going to take the amount of impervious area you have
2 and we're going to put you into one of four tiers. Again,
3 it's a very common methodology used throughout the country
4 to determine a proper contribution for residential
5 properties for stormwater services.
6 If your residential property has between 200
7 and 2,000 square feet of impervious area, you would fall
8 into Tier 1. And the proposal is for those properties to
9 pay $1.42 per month for stormwater services. Tier 1,
10 that's about one-quarter of our residential customers fall
11 within Tier 1. If you have between 2,001 and 3,600 square
12 feet of impervious area, and that's 50 percent of our
13 residential customers -- again, the average is about 2,600.
14 So that's just about what half of the residential customers
15 in MSD's district look like. If you fall within 2,001 to
16 3,600, the rate proposal is for those properties to pay
17 $2.25 per month for the proposed stormwater services. If
18 you have a larger home with more impervious area, between
19 3,601 and 6,000 square feet, the rate is $3.74 per month.
20 And again, if you have a much larger property with 6,000
21 square feet or more, you'll be asked to pay $6.84 per month
22 under the proposal. Those are the residential customers.
23 That represents about 450,000 different buildings.
24 Okay. There are other folks. These are
25 multi-family, industrial, commercial, everybody who's not
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1 residential. They are going to be billed a little bit
2 different. They are going to be billed based on the number
3 of ERUs of impervious area they have. Remember, an ERU is
4 2,600 square feet. That's the average amount of impervious
5 area for an equivalent residential unit in the district.
6 So for instance, take a commercial customer
7 who has 10,000 square feet of impervious area. If you take
8 10,000 and divide it by one ERU, which is 2,600 square
9 feet, you end up with about 3.85 ERUs. For that particular
10 commercial customer, we would round that up to four ERUs
11 and bill them at a rate of $2.25 per month. For the
12 example of this commercial customer, four ERUs times $2.25
13 would be $9 per month. That's what they would be asked to
14 pay.
15 Full collection would be starting with the
16 period July 1, 2021 to June 30, 2022. If it passes, the
17 rates would actually show up and start being collected in
18 January of 2020 if this were to move forward.
19 Where's the money -- how does that break out
20 as to where the money comes from? If you do the
21 calculation for all the single-family residential units,
22 they will generate about $13.8 million of revenue, or just
23 half of the $30 million program that we're proposing. If
24 you take the 50,000 nonresidential customers, you do the
25 calculation for them, they generate revenues of about
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1 16.2 million, slightly over half the program. You add
2 those two numbers together, you get the $30 million program
3 that MSD is proposing.
4 How will it be billed? So for those
5 individuals who currently receive wastewater service, the
6 other service we provide, and get a monthly bill for
7 wastewater service, this will just be another line on your
8 bill if this passes. It will be added onto -- you know, it
9 will be added on. So that's probably the easiest way for
10 us.
11 There are 50,000 -- or let's see, how do we do
12 this? There's 50,000 customers we have that don't
13 currently get wastewater service from us. They might be
14 parking lots that don't have a wastewater service or a
15 residential unit that's on a septic tank and don't get
16 wastewater services. So in those instances, if there's a
17 customer that has more than 20 ERUs, which is 20 times
18 2,600 square feet of impervious area, we will bill them
19 monthly. That's the only bill they will get from MSD is
20 for the stormwater service.
21 We do have, again, residential customers who
22 don't have wastewater bills. So as you recall me saying,
23 what we're going to do is bill them quarterly, every three
24 months. The reason for that is if you take the average
25 customer residential, who's being charged $2.25 per month,
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1 it's not cost effective for us to go through the billing
2 and collection process for a $2.25 a month bill. It would
3 end up costing us more to send the bill and collect it than
4 what we are collecting. So we're going to go ahead and
5 bill them every three months so it's a more cost efficient
6 method of collecting revenues from them.
7 There will be some incentive programs and ways
8 to reduce the cost. The most easiest is to reduce the
9 amount of impervious area on your property. For
10 residential properties, remove impervious area to drop
11 yourself to a lower tier. Some of the examples we see of
12 people doing that when we were starting the impervious
13 rate, those of you who have, for instance, concrete back
14 patios, some people took those patios up and laid pervious
15 pavers. So instead of the water hitting and running off,
16 it soaked into the ground. You do that, it's no longer an
17 impervious area and it won't count. You can lower yourself
18 into another tier. For the nonresidential who are billing
19 by ERUs, by simply eliminating one ERU, or 2,600 square
20 feet of impervious area, we will eliminate $2.25 off your
21 bill because you're one ERU less than you were previously.
22 There are some other credit systems. For
23 those properties whose runoff from their properties goes
24 directly to the Missouri, Mississippi or Meramec River,
25 we're going to give them a 70 percent credit. Those flows
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1 are going to rivers that MSD has no jurisdiction over at
2 all. The reason for the 70 percent credit is 30 percent of
3 the impervious area is on things like streets, highways,
4 roads. Now, while they generate run off, they also are
5 stormwater conveyance. So that 30 percent that's left from
6 the 70 percent credit is for everybody to bear the burden
7 of having the transportation system throughout our
8 district.
9 There are best management practices. For
10 residential property, if you take 500 square feet of your
11 impervious area and get it into an area of green
12 infrastructure or something that will hold 500 square feet
13 or a one- to two-year storm, and there's details wrapped
14 around that, but if you go to the cost and expense of doing
15 that to help us hold back some water, we'll offer a
16 one-time payment of $135 towards the cost of doing that as
17 an incentive.
18 Commercial properties, instead of removing an
19 ERU, if they take that ERU and drain it to the same type of
20 facility that will hold water for small storms, we will
21 charge them 50 percent of the cost per ERU if they put
22 those types of things in place, or about $1.13 cents per
23 ERU per month.
24 There's also low impact development. There's
25 a way to get a 35 percent credit. That happens to be a lot
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1 side that's at least three acres in size and the impervious
2 area is 15 percent or less of the total lot area. There's
3 a credit of 35 percent. And that's around an
4 environmentally sensitive development standard that exists
5 throughout the country that shows that that would help in a
6 reduction of the amount of runoff that comes from the
7 impervious area.
8 So the schedule -- I'll repeat some of the
9 things that Chairman Mahfood indicated and move a little
10 further. So the proposal was submitted to the Rate
11 Commission by MSD staff on February 26, 2018. The Rate
12 Commission has 165 days to review the proposal and send a
13 recommendation for consideration to our board of trustees.
14 There are technical meetings that are going on
15 right now. Chairman Mahfood indicated some of those. They
16 are on our website, stlmsd.com, a full publication of what
17 those are. It's somewhat like a trial. There's our rate
18 proposal, there are exhibits, there's testimony, there's
19 cross-examination, there's discovery requests. All that's
20 documented on our website if you're interested in really
21 following those proceedings, and electronically you can do
22 that on our website. Those are available at
23 www.stlmsd.com. That's MSD's website.
24 There's public hearings going on. This one is
25 the May 22nd. This is the May 22nd meeting which you see
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1 up there, so we have three more meetings left. On our
2 website as well, the location of those three meetings are
3 on our website, the Rate Commission schedule for having
4 public meetings.
5 Under the current schedule, the Rate
6 Commission is supposed to deliver a rate proposal
7 recommendation to our board of trustees in August. At that
8 time, our board, as part of a public process, will go
9 through the process of evaluating MSD's staff's rate
10 proposal as well as any recommendations from the Rate
11 Commission and they will decide how to proceed. If the
12 proposal is approved and it's decided to move forward, the
13 earliest chance for a public vote is in April 2019. And
14 right now we think that's when that will happen if we move
15 forward. And therefore, once that goes in effect, the new
16 rate will be effective January 2020.
17 So there's two possible outcomes from that
18 vote. If citizens vote yes, the rate goes in place and
19 starts getting charged in January 2020 and we start
20 providing the service. If the residents vote no, MSD won't
21 provide the service. It's a very simple yes/no question
22 for the folks who are going to vote, for the folks who are
23 considering this.
24 Now I want to let you know, so we don't get
25 confused, outside of stormwater -- I mentioned MSD is also
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1 a wastewater utility. So in a year, we have to start this
2 process all over again for our wastewater rates. So in
3 February 2019, we will submit a wastewater proposal for the
4 years 2021 through 2024 and the Rate Commission next year
5 will go through this process for our wastewater rates,
6 almost identical to what you're seeing here. They will go
7 through deliberations, we'll be having public meetings for
8 folks to provide comments to the Rate Commission. And
9 right now staff's in the process of getting ready to
10 prepare that rate proposal for our Rate Commission.
11 And here is for -- other than questions for
12 the Rate Commission, here's a contact, Lance LeComb. He's
13 here as our public affairs gentleman. He's here if you
14 have questions after these proceedings are over. That's
15 the contact if you have any questions other than about this
16 rate proposal for District staff and you don't get them
17 answered here today. That's the contact information.
18 Mr. Chairman, I'm done.
19 MR. MAHFOOD: Great. Thank you very much. I
20 appreciate it. I think at this point we're going to open
21 this up. I don't know if we've had any sign-ups. And if
22 we haven't, we're working on that. I'm going to just open
23 it up for questions. And I would appreciate you directing
24 those to me, and then I will get the appropriate person,
25 it's probably going to be Brian most of the time, for
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1 answers about the proposal and any other issues. Yes,
2 ma'am?
3 MS. SEID: Can you please tell me why you
4 didn't combine asking for the stormwater and the wastewater
5 together so we can just have one vote and get it over with
6 rather than put us through this set of meetings, a vote,
7 and then you're doing another evaluation? It just seems
8 like a duplication of effort.
9 MR. MAHFOOD: Ma'am, before you --
10 MS. SEID: Yes.
11 MR. MAHFOOD: -- can I get your name, please?
12 MS. SEID: My name is Mai Seid, and I'm a
13 resident of Maryland Heights.
14 MR. MAHFOOD: Fantastic. Thank you very much.
15 Go ahead, Brian.
16 MR. HOELSCHER: I think it all goes to my
17 explanation that MSD is two utilities. As a matter of
18 fact, they are two separate organizations in some cities.
19 We do -- this is about a stormwater service that has a
20 specific set of revenues on a specific schedule for a
21 specific purpose. We're wanting to address this issue now
22 while we can. We also don't want to mix it up with the
23 other issues. We found that dividing up and separating
24 these two separate issues is the easiest way to keep it
25 clear and understandable for those folks who have to
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1 consider what's being proposed through the rate proposal.
2 That's why we don't mix them together. Especially in this
3 particular case, as opposed to asking for more or different
4 kind of moneys, we're actually offering a new service that
5 MSD currently doesn't provide district-wide. We thought it
6 was real important for us to make sure we did this
7 separately so folks can really take into account what's
8 here.
9 Also, if you think about it, this affects all
10 of our ratepayers. The wastewater proposal wouldn't
11 necessarily affect all of the residents in our district
12 boundaries. So we're trying to do it to be as fair and
13 clear to the ratepayers as we possibly can.
14 MR. MAHFOOD: I've got a -- I have a sign-up
15 sheet. We're going to go by the sign-up sheet first, and
16 then any other additional questions. The first person on
17 the list here is a Herbert Abeln.
18 MR. ABELN: I signed in. I thought it was a
19 sign-in sheet --
20 MR. MAHFOOD: Okay.
21 MR. ABELN: -- not a question sheet. I'm
22 sorry. No questions. I'll come up with something later.
23 MR. MAHFOOD: All right. Thank you. John
24 Olson. Yes?
25 MR. OLSON: Hi. Yeah, I'm a resident of
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1 Chesterfield.
2 MR. MAHFOOD: Okay.
3 MR. OLSON: And a couple questions. So I
4 guess the first one I had would be, so for erosion and the
5 stormwater-related services that were just outlined, was
6 there a time in the past or a geography within the service
7 area where erosion and stormwater services were funded and
8 provided by MSD? Because as I understood, outside of out
9 west or anywhere outside of 270 is an area that's never had
10 those services provided by MSD. Is that correct?
11 MR. HOELSCHER: So yeah, let me -- I want to
12 get to that blue map. That might be my best -- to make
13 sure I'm giving the reference appropriately. There we go.
14 So in 1954, when MSD was formed, the folks that voted were
15 somewhere -- this is not exact, but east of 270 and then
16 east of Lindbergh extended. This was MSD's original
17 boundaries. At the time that they were created in 1954,
18 there wasn't a Hancock Amendment. So all cities, all
19 organizations, everybody who had a revenue source, would go
20 through a public hearing process like you see here and
21 municipal councils and everybody else would go ahead and
22 decide what the appropriate tax rate was.
23 Big change was in 1980 when the Hancock
24 Amendment went in place. That basically means for any kind
25 of taxes a public hearing and then a vote of the public is
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1 required. The reason that's important is that in 1989,
2 based on a vote of the people, MSD then took over
3 stormwater services in this area which were previously
4 provided by St. Louis County.
5 So at the time, there was a consideration of
6 going to an impervious area type rate. There was
7 consideration of other revenue sources. What's been
8 explained as a lack of political will resulted in MSD never
9 being provided funding in order to perform those services.
10 It's something we looked at as far as the timing of it.
11 There were court cases wrapped around the Hancock Amendment
12 about how our sanitary rate would look like, our wastewater
13 rate. Those got resolved.
14 Once those were resolved, we went through the
15 stormwater rate process to try to provide those services in
16 2008. That was a false start because of a decision by the
17 supreme court. And now's the time that we're providing
18 this. there was just never a revenue source. There was
19 one thought of. If you look back in our old charter
20 ordinances, you'll find where a proposal was put in front
21 of the board to charge impervious rates to provide this
22 service out in these areas. There was never any action.
23 It was decided -- there was never any action that was taken
24 on that.
25 MR. OLSON: Okay.
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: And so we sit where we are
2 right now.
3 MR. OLSON: So thanks for explaining that.
4 And then so for a resident with an issue that would be
5 addressed by this stormwater proposal then, if MSD's been
6 out to someone's property, is it already recorded? So
7 that's one question. And then like the second question
8 would be, you know, how do you kind of stay on MSD's
9 priority list with a project if funds become approved for
10 this type of work?
11 MR. HOELSCHER: You want me to go?
12 MR. MAHFOOD: Yeah, please go for it, yes.
13 MR. HOELSCHER: So right now the best way --
14 there's a lot of ways to go. One, I would suggest you talk
15 to our staff here because they can get you -- if you
16 reported a problem before, it hasn't fallen off our radar.
17 MR. OLSON: Okay.
18 MR. HOELSCHER: We've been collecting issues.
19 And one of the other things we do provide, I mentioned that
20 two-cent tax. We do collect that out here. So we collect
21 stormwater problems also for a regulatory reason. As
22 people redevelop, we want to make sure they're not
23 increasing stormwater problems or providing other damage to
24 folks. So we've gathered that data anyway.
25 MR. OLSON: Okay.
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: So it stays on our list. We
2 get it from individuals who have an issue. A lot of times
3 a lot of municipalities will gather stormwater complaints.
4 They will forward it to MSD or they will develop their own
5 stormwater plans. Separate municipalities have the ability
6 to raise stormwater funds and some do their own stormwater
7 programs. We will coordinate with them. They will send us
8 their information.
9 It never goes away. The best suggestion I
10 have is if you have an issue, and we've got staff here,
11 call us any time. We'll make sure it gets on the list.
12 And once you're on the list, I will guarantee you it stays
13 on there. The one thing -- the one time I would suggest
14 you really think about calling us is if something changes,
15 something gets worse. Call us if something gets better
16 because that does happen as well. But let us know and
17 we'll track those.
18 And then kind of finishing off, how do you
19 know things happen? We will end up -- we're a little
20 hindered right now because there's no funding to do this.
21 So we're kind of doing it on just what we're gathering on
22 the regulatory side. We will put usually, once fully
23 funded, a five-year projection forward. We'll take the
24 projects that have the highest benefit/cost ratio. Those
25 will be the projects that go first --
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1 MR. OLSON: Okay.
2 MR. HOELSCHER: -- once we get the program.
3 So if you happen to live in this area where we did have a
4 program before -- like in here there was programs. If you
5 look at MSD's past capital programs, you will see that
6 there were a list of projects going out five years with any
7 special taxing districts so everybody knew when their
8 project would come up based on the priority basis. Same
9 thing will happen district-wide if we get this revenue.
10 MR. MAHFOOD: Does that -- does that make
11 sense?
12 MR. OLSON: It does, yes. Thank you.
13 MR. MAHFOOD: Next person here, and I
14 apologize, it looks like Verl Brennan.
15 MS. BRENNAN: Valerie. It's okay. Valerie.
16 MR. MAHFOOD: Valerie, I'm sorry.
17 MS. BRENNAN: Oh, that's fine. I write like a
18 chicken.
19 MR. MAHFOOD: Please go ahead.
20 MS. BRENNAN: So I didn't come in from the
21 beginning. So if my question has to do because I wasn't
22 here from the beginning, please excuse me. But from
23 sitting here, you're saying that, you know, once we pay our
24 property taxes every year where you have money allotted for
25 you, and that comes to 67 million, and that money's already
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1 wiped out, right, so then if this new proposal becomes
2 effective it's going to bring another 30 million revenue in
3 addition a year to work on these projects, right?
4 But I thought there was somewhere in the slide
5 where you said that the work that needs money is like
6 560 million. I'm sorry, is my memory not good? Because
7 then I'm thinking, okay, so when you're talking
8 560 million, is that all those dots on that map or are
9 these new dots after the money is received going forward?
10 And how is 30 million a year going to offset 560 million
11 worth of projects?
12 MR. HOELSCHER: So were you here when this --
13 when I explained this slide?
14 MS. BRENNAN: Yes, I was. And maybe I wasn't
15 paying thorough attention.
16 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay.
17 MS. BRENNAN: But I really -- are those
18 existing projects now?
19 MR. HOELSCHER: So I'm going to do this very
20 quickly. So there's a current tax that you pay of 2 cents
21 per hundred dollar valuation on your tax. It lets us pay
22 for regulatory services district-wide.
23 MS. BRENNAN: Okay.
24 MR. HOELSCHER: There is the 10-cent
25 stormwater tax that lets us operate and maintain the public
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1 storm sewer system, inlets, manholes, storm sewers, paved
2 concrete channels. The other thing that's left is when
3 this process happened and we shut down a lot of other
4 funding sources that were being collected from various
5 people in different amounts, you're right, there was
6 $67,000,000 left.
7 MS. BRENNAN: Yes. That's Prop S, the 67.
8 MR. HOELSCHER: The 67 was what was left over.
9 Prop S is right here, this 10-cent tax.
10 MS. BRENNAN: Okay.
11 MR. HOELSCHER: So once that tax started
12 rolling in, these various other taxes to some degree, some
13 paid for some of the O & M that was being done in part of
14 the district. But once we had the district-wide tax for
15 that, we simply turned those to zero and said, okay, what's
16 the existing balance in those funds that we're no longer
17 using for O & M and other purposes, and that was the
18 $67 million. And so part of Prop S, we committed to use
19 that 67 million to do the project, all these dots you see
20 up here, for flooding and erosion.
21 MS. BRENNAN: So are all of those dots equal
22 to 67 million?
23 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes.
24 MS. BRENNAN: Okay.
25 MR. HOELSCHER: Right.
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1 MS. BRENNAN: Okay. So if this proposal is
2 awarded and you're taking in 30 million a year, then that
3 30 million is going to be for a new set of dots?
4 MR. HOELSCHER: Which are these dots that you
5 mentioned earlier. You had it right. I wanted to make
6 sure we got there. So you did a very good job. So it's
7 these 500 -- and these are the things we know of. These
8 are the problems we know of. I will tell you stormwater is
9 somewhat of a fickle creature.
10 Some of these problems are erosion where
11 people's garages could by essentially maybe falling into
12 creeks. Others of them may be the water encroaches up on
13 somebody's property a little bit and it's wet for 12 hours.
14 It's a whole range of things. But that is the total size
15 of the package. And you're right, that $30 million a year
16 program will be put towards addressing these problems.
17 MS. BRENNAN: So essentially it would take 20
18 years --
19 MR. HOELSCHER: 25 to 30 years.
20 MS. BRENNAN: -- to put a dent in that $562
21 million.
22 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, if that number is right,
23 it would eliminate them, but yes.
24 MS. BRENNAN: Okay.
25 MR. HOELSCHER: And I think just to leave with
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1 that too, I think it's somewhat -- there's a lot of things
2 going on in the district, redevelopment. Like I mentioned,
3 there's a lot of cities doing their own stormwater programs
4 that are in their particular cities. They have the ability
5 to collect taxes for that. So a lot of things change.
6 Sometimes there's stormwater problems we're not aware of
7 that become new. There's also a lot of items on this list
8 on an annual basis that go away because other things happen
9 such as redevelopment or work by individual municipalities,
10 and those things will drop off the list. So it's a very
11 dynamic list that changes the day after we present it.
12 MS. BRENNAN: In regards to stormwater, there
13 was something a couple years ago, and I'm not sure if it
14 was you or if it was Missouri American Water, about putting
15 grates on the property to collect the water. Was that MSD
16 or was that Missouri American Water?
17 MR. HOELSCHER: Grates on the --
18 MS. BRENNAN: Yeah, about actually installing
19 grates at different locations on your property and actually
20 taking that collected water and then selling it. Maybe it
21 was Missouri American Water.
22 MR. HOELSCHER: Yeah, that doesn't sound like
23 a program we had.
24 MS. BRENNAN: Okay. Thank you for answering
25 my question. My last thing is, and please don't laugh at
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1 me, can you elaborate on who the Rate Commission is and how
2 they become the Rate Commission?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: I'm going to sit down.
4 MR. MAHFOOD: I could read -- I could read you
5 everything that --
6 MS. BRENNAN: Just a brief synopsis would be
7 fine. Are these appointed officials?
8 MR. MAHFOOD: The Rate Commission is made up
9 of 15 of us from varying backgrounds in St. Louis City and
10 County independent of the Metropolitan Sewer District
11 staff. We have our own legal counsel and we have our own
12 rate evaluators. And we are inside the process, but we are
13 independent. And we hold the hearings and meetings that we
14 hold in this process. We are an independent body. We are
15 all volunteers. And so we are not beholden to anybody but
16 the citizens of our district. So this is a very unique
17 process that takes place inside -- in there St.~Louis area.
18 MS. BRENNAN: So you are volunteers?
19 MR. MAHFOOD: There's not very many places in
20 our country where there's a process where an organization
21 like this independent is inside and able to question what's
22 going on.
23 MS. BRENNAN: So do you get invited to be a
24 volunteer? How does the process work? And who oversees it
25 and determines who's a good egg, an acceptable egg, or a
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1 more acceptable egg, that kind of deal? You mean what I
2 mean?
3 MS. SEID: Yeah. There's all men up there.
4 You see that?
5 MS. BRENNAN: Oh, it's got nothing to do with
6 that.
7 MR. MAHFOOD: I'm with you. We represent
8 various kinds of organizations, everything from
9 environmental, business, unions.
10 MS. BRENNAN: So, I mean, on your resume, are
11 you engineers or lawyers, you know, environmental law, that
12 type of thing? I mean, what kind of background do you have
13 to be? Who like looks through this and allows you to
14 become part of the commission, I guess?
15 MR. MAHFOOD: Well, as I've seen this process
16 happen, and this is only my second time around with the
17 Rate Commission, what happens is the Metropolitan Sewer
18 District Board of Trustees has tried to pick out the right
19 organizations that are involved and represent large groups
20 of people. And those organizations would then step forward
21 and propose different people to be on the Rate Commission.
22 And if we seem to pass muster -- and I think all the
23 organizations and the people that are on the Rate
24 Commission are highly qualified from the perspective of
25 they are interested in what is going on. So you have
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1 League of Women Voters, to the Home Builders Association,
2 to union representatives, to people representing homeowners
3 groups.
4 MS. BRENNAN: Okay.
5 MR. MAHFOOD: So you've got a wide range. And
6 on the website there's a complete -- there's a listing of
7 who we are and what we do and our backgrounds.
8 MS. BRENNAN: So on that website, I mean, if
9 you were interested in seeing if you knew someone that
10 would be a good addition to the board maybe on the Rate
11 Commission in the future, how would you go about
12 investigating that process or submitting a resume or
13 however people review your credentials for you to be part
14 of the group?
15 MR. MAHFOOD: I would say get on the website,
16 get us your name. I'm glad to -- if you have -- stay in
17 contact. I'm glad to take that, take your name.
18 MS. BRENNAN: I've always been curious as to
19 how various utility commissions and various other
20 commissions that decide what gets passed and what doesn't
21 get passed for public view or public comment. I'm just
22 curious as to what credentials these people have. Are they
23 appointed? Are they voted for? You know what I mean?
24 Those type of questions, that's all.
25 MR. MAHFOOD: We are all appointments. We are
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1 not voted on. We know that. But everybody that is on the
2 commission takes very seriously the role that we're
3 playing.
4 MS. BRENNAN: And you don't draw any salaries?
5 It's strictly volunteer? No salaries are drawn?
6 MR. MAHFOOD: Right. We are all strictly --
7 this is all on our own time.
8 MS. BRENNAN: Okay.
9 MR. MAHFOOD: And so I would really encourage
10 you to look up the -- look us up and get on the website.
11 MS. BRENNAN: Okay.
12 MR. MAHFOOD: And we have a Facebook page.
13 MS. BRENNAN: You will have your little
14 pictures there so I know who is who?
15 MR. MAHFOOD: We've got a Facebook page. Does
16 anybody else on the commission want to say something?
17 MR. BRESNAN: I'll give you the website here
18 if you want to see it.
19 MR. MAHANTA: To add to what you have already
20 explained, for example, I represent North County,
21 Incorporated. And it's a -- it's an organization that
22 represents a large part of North County. And they just
23 asked me -- I was involved in another activities of North
24 County and they needed somebody to represent them. They
25 asked me if I would be interested. And of course, my
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1 background, for example, I'm a retired architect. And that
2 was my only qualification, so to say. But I'm also
3 involved in environmental services. And they felt that I
4 would do a good job of representing North County in this
5 Rate Commission. And that's how I got in there. I didn't
6 go seek the position. It just happened to be that I was
7 nominated.
8 MS. BRENNAN: Well, that's good.
9 MR. MAHFOOD: Anybody else want to say
10 anything?
11 MR. BRESNAN: My name is Don Bresnan. I
12 represent the St.~Louis Labor Council. I'm also the
13 present of the electrical workers union. Our interest is
14 as yours. We're consumers as well. We want to see that
15 things are fair and equal and balanced and we also want to
16 see that good jobs are provided as well. And we believe
17 they are the best to handle that. And I was appointed. I
18 was asked if I would like to be part of it. And I have --
19 as you, I have a vested interest in the community. And I'm
20 well aware there's stormwater and erosion problems, so I
21 wanted to see a way that was equal and fair for everybody.
22 MS. BRENNAN: So do all -- if there's hearings
23 and everything, all of you will be at the hearings and you
24 will review all the information, you know, proposed?
25 MR. BRESNAN: Yes, ma'am.
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1 MS. BRENNAN: A lot of man-hours.
2 MR. BRESNAN: Yes, it is.
3 MS. BRENNAN: And then you have also counsel
4 to help you if you don't understand some of the different
5 ramifications that maybe presented?
6 MR. BRESNAN: We do have legal counsel as
7 well.
8 MR. MAHANTA: And technical counsel.
9 MR. BRESNAN: Technical counsel as well.
10 MS. BRENNAN: Thank you for answering my
11 questions. You know, I'm sure not all commissions are like
12 this, but I really always wanted to know, you know. So
13 thank you for --
14 MR. BRESNAN: There are commissioners that
15 aren't here that represent Missouri Botanical Garden and,
16 again, different cross-sections of interests.
17 MS. BRENNAN: Thank you. I appreciate those
18 comments.
19 MR. MAHFOOD: Yeah, we're very -- we're a
20 varied group. I have one more, one more question. Mai?
21 MS. SEID: Yes, thank you. I know when I had
22 stormwater problems -- I lived in Maryland Heights when I
23 had my home and my soil was being eroded. And what
24 happened was MSD was not responsible for it, so the City of
25 Maryland Heights, we had to wait for a half a cent sales
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1 tax to be added or collected, and then the project was done
2 by the City of Maryland Heights. Once we get this item
3 passed, how will you decide which projects are city-owned
4 and which projects are MSD-owned?
5 MR. MAHFOOD: Very good question. Brian?
6 MR. HOELSCHER: So the process will be exactly
7 the same as what we're already -- let me go to a different
8 map. As to the process we do -- again, this is kind of the
9 area of the district that was already collecting a special
10 tax for some of our individuals. So what the practice is,
11 we've seen in the past, municipalities can gather their
12 funds.
13 MS. SEID: Yes.
14 MR. HOELSCHER: As you said, they can do their
15 jobs. MSD is gathering funds. And based on, again, a
16 priority system, a benefit versus cost ratio priority, we
17 will have our programs. Now, for the municipalities that
18 have an active stormwater program -- and remember, we're
19 solving issues that MSD doesn't own the property, MSD
20 doesn't own the assets. These are problems that we're
21 trying to solve similar to what the City of Maryland
22 Heights did. For the cities that have stormwater plans, we
23 coordinate our activities with theirs. And as you can
24 imagine, different municipalities may have different
25 priorities than what MSD has district-wide. So we'll
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1 coordinate those activities.
2 And without giving the name of it, an example
3 of an activity that may happen is a city may have a
4 stormwater project that they want to do, and part of that
5 project is on MSD's list to be funded. So instead of the
6 city paying for the entire improvement that they want to
7 get done, they will approach MSD. And if it's programmed
8 and it has the right priority, MSD will help them fund the
9 problem that the city develops, that the city goes ahead
10 and builds, so they won't use all of their funds.
11 So it will happen both ways. The cities will
12 be raising moneys for their priorities. MSD will be
13 raising money based on our priorities for a much larger
14 area. But there's constant communication right now and
15 coordination amongst the entities that have those kind of
16 resources to make sure if we can possibly coordinate our
17 activities and cost overall the ratepayers less money, we
18 do that to make sure the things get done. That's the way
19 it's working now in the areas we have those kind of funds,
20 that $67 million list. We'll continue doing that
21 throughout the district the same way.
22 MS. SEID: Okay. I was just concerned, double
23 taxation, you know. I'm paying tax for the City of
24 Maryland Heights to do stormwater stuff, and now I'm paying
25 tax for MSD.
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: So every city -- you know,
2 they may say -- it kind of probably depends, I would
3 suspect, on April. In April, if the vote is no, cities
4 will make one decision about what they want to do. If
5 people vote yes, you're right, we have cities that say we
6 no longer need the tax, cities that say our residents want
7 a faster and more stormwater program than this would offer.
8 And each city -- at least our experience in the past is
9 that each one would make a determination on their own.
10 MR. MAHFOOD: Did that answer your question,
11 Mai?
12 MS. SEID: Yes, thank you.
13 MR. MAHFOOD: I'm going to open this up.
14 That's the end of the formal sign-up sheet. So I know
15 you're wanting to ask a question, please.
16 MS. SHENKER: Yes.
17 MR. MAHFOOD: Could you identify yourself?
18 MS. SHENKER: My name is Diane. And I
19 believe -- I wasn't sure I heard correctly. You're the
20 CEO?
21 MR. HOELSCHER: Uh-huh.
22 MS. SHENKER: And your name is Brian?
23 MR. HOELSCHER: Brian Hoelscher.
24 MS. SHENKER: I'm wondering if I'm looking at
25 this correctly, and if you can tell me if I understand
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1 correctly, if I can show this to you, if you wouldn't mind
2 looking at it. The way I'm reading it, this is what the
3 increase is going to be, which if you're paying, say, this
4 amount, it's going to be a 100 percent increase in what
5 you're going to pay monthly. Is that correct?
6 MR. HOELSCHER: No.
7 MS. SHENKER: This says fiscal year of 2020
8 and it's putting down all the charges.
9 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. So -- and I'll explain
10 to everybody what I'm looking at the best I can.
11 MR. MAHFOOD: All right, good, Brian. One
12 thing at a time.
13 MR. HOELSCHER: So this is percent of total.
14 That's not percent of increase. So it's a percent of total
15 of what your overall bill is.
16 MS. SHENKER: It comes to 100 percent.
17 MR. HOELSCHER: Right. So 100 percent -- in
18 other words, this wastewater bill is 90.5 percent of your
19 overall monthly cost of MSD, not an increase of 95 percent.
20 MS. SHENKER: But what I'm saying is, you're
21 saying it's going to be this amount?
22 MR. HOELSCHER: So for the average customer,
23 if this passes, and we've added this $2.25 in, the total
24 cost per month for a customer in 2020 will be $66.75.
25 MS. SHENKER: What I'm telling you is that
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1 some of the people I have talked to are paying $33. And
2 now if this goes through, they will be paying close to $67
3 a month. So when you talk about $2.25, you're talking
4 about statistics. I'm talking just about the everyday
5 person who has to end up paying for it. And a lot of times
6 that seems to get clouded over. And I mean, that's a lot
7 of money for somebody who's maybe living on --
8 MR. HOELSCHER: If somebody's paying $33.75 a
9 month now, and the only increase was stormwater, their
10 rates would go up $2.25 a month, and it would go to $35 and
11 something. It's not going to go to $66.
12 MS. SHENKER: So why are they showing --
13 MR. HOELSCHER: What they are showing is for
14 the average customer. They are showing that their
15 wastewater bill for the average customer in 2020 will be
16 $60.44. That's for the average customer. You're right,
17 everybody. There's some below, there's some above.
18 MS. SHENKER: But that's double. That's
19 100 percent.
20 MR. HOELSCHER: All right. $60.44 is the
21 average customer. There are people paying $20 a month.
22 They will keep paying $20 a month. There are people paying
23 $40 a month. They will keep paying $40 a month.
24 MS. SHENKER: But in fiscal year 2020, it's --
25 MR. HOELSCHER: For the average customer, not
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1 everybody. That bill is based on the amount of water
2 usage, portable water usage.
3 MS. SHENKER: Well, I just had a situation
4 happen which I read in the paper about the water company.
5 And it seems like some customers' meters stopped recording
6 water usage, so the utility used the previous year usage
7 for billing. The utility never disclosed a problem while
8 negotiating a rate. So I was with a group of people today,
9 and I said I was coming here and I mentioned this. She
10 says, you know what happened to me? We were gone for four
11 months. We were in Florida. We had somebody from the
12 water company come and ask us were we having a problem
13 because it was not reading what their normal reading was.
14 And in some of these articles that I have here in the
15 paper, they went ahead and added even though they hadn't
16 used it. They added it to their bill even though it was
17 not actually used.
18 So -- and then I think what it is is that I
19 read too much. And I find that a lot of people are not
20 reading what's going on in the newspaper. And I think a
21 lot of people are a little bit skeptical of what actually
22 is going to happen when they have to pay their bill. So I
23 just was curious whether I was reading that correctly.
24 MR. HOELSCHER: So I'm going to give you the
25 answer to your questions related to this. A lot of the
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1 other stuff you've got has to do with how we bill
2 wastewater. And I'd suggest that after this meeting, after
3 the Rate Commission is done, we can answer that.
4 But on stormwater, assuming there is -- let me
5 get to the right page. Help me out, Lance. Where's the
6 one that's not the -- is it the next one? There you go,
7 okay. Assuming no change in your wastewater bill, okay --
8 which you're right, is based on portable water. But
9 assuming there's no change, a customer's monthly rate will
10 go up by this amount. There's no doubling. There's no
11 tripling. It will go up by the dollar amount that's right
12 here for stormwater. What we're showing here is an
13 accurate representation if you are a residential customer
14 with this amount of impervious area, from your bill today
15 for stormwater, that's how much your bill will go up.
16 As far as what impact there is with -- because
17 wastewater -- because the document you showed me,
18 90.5 percent of somebody's bill there is a wastewater rate.
19 It doesn't have to do with the stormwater. And we can
20 explain the wastewater rate and what that chart means after
21 this meeting. We can explain the wastewater side. But
22 this is what this rate -- this is what the new cost per
23 month will be for all residents regardless of what their
24 current wastewater rate is.
25 MS. SHENKER: Thank you.
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1 MR. MAHFOOD: Yeah, I'm glad we had an
2 opportunity to talk about this because it might either
3 redirect our own efforts as we talk about average versus
4 median versus your bill and somebody else's bill. You
5 know, we're talking about -- here we're talking about just
6 the stormwater, stormwater rates, and not talking about the
7 rates for wastewater. And that's a combination that is --
8 it's a combination of those. Yes, ma'am?
9 MS. ROBERTS: I had a couple just clarifying
10 questions. So you mentioned or just broke down the
11 different -- those regulatory tax amounts and the 10-cent
12 worth of Prop S. So if this is passed, that will be like a
13 third line that shows this impervious amount, or would that
14 be all just lumped together for the one stormwater amount?
15 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. So I'm trying to get to
16 the screen because I want to show the numbers. So the
17 current stormwater services are a 2-cent property tax and a
18 10-cent property tax that shows up on your annual property
19 tax bill. That's the only time that payment's made.
20 The proposal we're putting forward, this new
21 service, would actually show up -- assuming most of you
22 have wastewater service from us, this will show up per
23 month on your monthly wastewater bill that you get from
24 MSD. So that's where it will be added on. And again, for
25 the average customer, or 50 percent, would be $2.25 a month
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1 as an additional line item. If this passes, that will
2 start showing on July 2020.
3 MS. ROBERTS: Okay. Also, with the maps that
4 you showed, the two different maps, the one with the
5 current projects and the one with the prospective projects,
6 where can I find them -- what tab is it? What tab would I
7 look for those maps?
8 MR. HOELSCHER: So this map is on our website.
9 If you look under www.stl.msd, you look under rate
10 proposal --
11 MR. LeCOMB: If you look on our website,
12 you'll see a section that says Proposition S. This map is
13 there at Proposition S. You can actually click through.
14 That shows all the additional work we've now been able to
15 do because of Proposition S.
16 Separately though, there's a Rate Commission
17 section to our website. And not only does it have this
18 presentation, a listing of the Rate Commission members, but
19 all the documents for the proceedings for the Rate
20 Commission as well. So if you go in there, across the top
21 of our website there will be a tab that says who we are.
22 Look for Proposition S and look for Rate Commission. They
23 are two separate headings, and you'll find that information
24 in those two headings.
25 MS. ROBERTS: Okay. And also, can we find
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1 members of the Rate Commission on that?
2 MR. LeCOMB: That will be under Rate
3 Commission tab.
4 MS. ROBERTS: And just out of curiosity, I
5 know you said that in terms of the impervious or
6 calculating the impervious areas for individual households,
7 I know you said something about an aerial view or something
8 like that. How are you guys actually going to calculate
9 for each and every property? That seems to be quite
10 laborious, so --
11 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. So the way it's done --
12 and quite honestly, even your local municipalities have
13 this information. We overfly the district on average once
14 every two years for a lot of reasons. And a lot of
15 entities share that data. From that aerial photography,
16 we're able to identify once you put the property lines on
17 what is impervious area. And just so you know,
18 mechanically the process, a lot of it's done electronically
19 with computer software that says, here's the impervious
20 areas. And a lot of it gets hand-checked by individuals.
21 There's still a chance something might be
22 wrong, not quite right. MSD will also have an appeal
23 process. If we lay something out or it doesn't make sense
24 to you, MSD can take a look at your appeal and we'll make
25 the corrections. But it's done by aerial photography. I
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1 will guarantee you every municipality in the area, the USGS
2 and MoDOT and everybody else, has access to aerial
3 photography that's no more than two years old. It's just
4 useful for a whole lot of things.
5 MS. ROBERTS: Thank you.
6 MR. MAHFOOD: Yes, sir?
7 MR. ABELN: I do have a question. I represent
8 a homeowner's association in West County. We have 98
9 homes. The homeowners association owns a section of a
10 creek that's a wild creek. It's about a two-acre plot.
11 But 25 of our 98 homes back to this creek. If you have a
12 vote like this, I'm sure 25 of the 98 would vote for a tax
13 like this, and the balance would probably tend to vote no
14 because it's not going to help them a bit. How are you
15 guys -- I mean, that's just my own view of how this is
16 going to play when it comes to a vote. How are you going
17 to convince all of these people that see zero benefit to
18 themselves for passing a tax like this?
19 MR. HOELSCHER: So we've done -- and these are
20 some documents that are on the exhibits with the Rate
21 Commission. We've done some polling of individuals, how
22 important are stormwater problems, how much they feel is
23 appropriate to pay to help the stormwater problems in the
24 area. We're going to convey to folks -- I mean, this is me
25 speaking. I assume you don't, as an adjacent property
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1 owner, want a property next to you to have erosion so that
2 the house is falling in the creek. That probably impacts
3 your property values.
4 So there's a lot of those types of things.
5 And it has to do with the health of the area and what this
6 will propose. That's something we have to talk about.
7 That's what we're going to present to folks. They are
8 going to have to, in the end, make their own decisions
9 about whether it's worthwhile. But based on the polling,
10 we believe what we are proposing, if we explain it
11 correctly, everybody can understand the issue and make
12 their own decision about whether or not it's worthwhile
13 providing this.
14 One thing I would present to you, just because
15 you mentioned it, if you live in a homeowners areas with 90
16 homes and some back up to an area with a creek, you may
17 want to look at your subdivision indentures. My guess is
18 every person in that subdivision is responsible for paying
19 into a pot to help maintain that channel, all 90. That's
20 part of the common ground. So that's just some advice you
21 may want to take a look at the indentures that were
22 developed.
23 MR. ABELN: I'm very familiar with the
24 indentures, and that's not the case.
25 MR. HOELSCHER: That's not? Okay, that is
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1 different. That's a little unusual. But you're right,
2 that's an issue we'll have to sit and talk about.
3 MR. MAHFOOD: Do you have something you want
4 to say?
5 MR. LeCOMB: If this is approved and the time
6 comes, and my contact information is up there, and the
7 election does go forward, I will be the effort to go out
8 and educate the community. So if you'd like me to come and
9 talk to a neighborhood or whatever at that time, we'd be
10 more than happy to do it. To Brian's point, we present the
11 information. We can't advocate for a yes or no vote
12 because we are a government agency. But we're happy to
13 come out and have a conversation with any neighborhood or
14 any subdivision association and share the information we
15 have.
16 MR. ABELN: I think you've got an uphill climb
17 here, pretty steep climb to get this passed. That's my
18 personal opinion. I'm all for it. But the majority of the
19 people --
20 MR. HOELSCHER: We're here to provide as much
21 education and information we can so that the folks who are
22 voting can make an informed decision.
23 MR. MAHFOOD: Any other -- any other
24 questions? And please -- the staff is going to be sticking
25 around here when we're done, if there's anything informally
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1 you want to ask or any further clarification. They are not
2 going anywhere until they answer any of the questions, any
3 other additional questions that you may have. We also will
4 have a brief handout when you leave that just kind of
5 summarizes the key points that were presented here tonight.
6 No other questions out here. Any of the Rate
7 Commissioners have anything that they would want to add or
8 any other questions?
9 MR. MAHANTA: I just would like to thank all
10 of you, particularly those who have asked questions and
11 made comments. It is very helpful for us as Rate
12 Commissioners.
13 MS. SEID: I have a suggestion. If you could
14 have a slide that has a typical MSD bill now, and what
15 would be the addition to it if this passes, so that we can
16 get a better idea of what we're looking at. I always just
17 pay the total. I don't look at the details. So it's good
18 to know it's separated.
19 MR. MAHFOOD: I see a lot of heads shaking.
20 So that might be something we can add.
21 MS. SEID: That would be a good slide.
22 MS. SHENKER: But they don't want to show
23 that.
24 MR. MAHFOOD: Before we adjourn, I just wanted
25 to tell you, there are three public hearings remaining.
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1 There's a May 30th. It's online. And you've got to get on
2 the website to check this out. We'll have an online public
3 hearing. On June 6 we will have one at 6:00 at the Forest
4 Park Visitor's Center. And then on June 29th, there will
5 be a final one at 9:00 a.m. at MSD's office. So those are
6 the three remaining public hearings.
7 If there are no additional questions, nothing
8 else or any other comments, I'm going to adjourn the
9 meeting at this time. Thank you very, very much for coming
10 out.
11 (Hearing concluded at 7:25 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2 STATE OF MISSOURI )
) ss.
3 CITY OF ST. LOUIS )
4 I, Julie A. Johanning, CCR No. 835, do hereby
5 certify that the speakers whose statements appear in the
6 foregoing transcript were taken by me to the best of my
7 ability and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my
8 direction; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor
9 employed by any of the parties to the action, and further
10 that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or
11 counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor financially or
12 otherwise interested in the outcome of the action.
13
14
15
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17 Certified Court Reporter
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a.m 59:5
Abeln 29:17,18
29:21 55:7
56:23 57:16
ability 33:5
38:4 60:7
able 11:15 39:21
53:14 54:16
acceptable
39:25 40:1
access 55:2
accessible 4:18
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acres 25:1
action 12:19
31:22,23 60:9
60:12
active 45:18
activities 42:23
45:23 46:1,17
activity 46:3
add 12:11 22:1
42:19 58:7,20
added 22:8,9
45:1 48:23
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52:24
addition 35:3
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additional
29:16 53:1,14
58:3 59:7
address 15:1,22
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addressed
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addressing
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adjacent 55:25
adjourn 58:24
59:8
adjusted 14:8
adopted 6:8,11
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advice 56:20
advocate 57:11
aerial 19:14 54:7
54:15,25 55:2
affairs 27:13
affect 13:24
16:3,3 29:11
agency 57:12
ago 14:9 18:19
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ahead 4:2 5:2
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46:9 50:15
airports 17:19
Alaris 1:16 3:24
allotted 34:24
allowed 14:13,15
allows 14:1,9
40:13
amended 5:13
7:1
amendment
11:17 14:3
30:18,24 31:11
American 8:7
38:14,16,21
amount 14:18
15:2 17:11,15,16
18:14 20:1 21:4
23:9 25:6
48:4,21 50:1
51:10,11,14
52:13,14
amounts 36:5
52:11
Angeles 12:15
annual 38:8
52:18
answer 11:13,15
47:10 50:25
51:3 58:2
answered 8:21
27:17
answering
38:24 44:10
answers 28:1
anybody 4:8
9:15 39:15
42:16 43:9
anyway 32:24
apologize 34:14
appeal 54:22
54:24
appear 60:5
application 7:3
7:4,5,6
appointed 11:21
11:22 39:7
41:23 43:17
appointments
41:25
appreciate 4:9
27:20,23
44:17
approach 46:7
appropriate
27:24 30:22
55:23
appropriately
30:13
approved 6:15
11:18 26:12
32:9 57:5
April 12:20
26:13 47:3,3
architect 43:1
area 12:5,9,25
13:1 17:11,12,12
17:16 18:14
19:11,13 20:1,7
20:12,18 21:3
21:5,7 22:18
23:9,10,17,20
24:3,11,11 25:2
25:2,7 30:7,9
31:3,6 34:3
39:17 45:9
46:14 51:14
54:17 55:1,24
56:5,16
areas 14:16
18:10,12 31:22
46:19 54:6,20
56:15
articles 50:14
asked 20:21
21:13 42:23
42:25 43:18
58:10
asking 28:4
29:3
assets 13:1,4
45:20
association 41:1
55:8,9 57:14
assume 55:25
assuming 51:4,7
51:9 52:21
attendance 4:4
attention 35:15
attorney 60:10
August 6:18
26:7
available 25:22
average 19:10
19:12 20:13
21:4 22:24
48:22 49:14
49:15,16,21,25
52:3,25 54:13
awarded 37:2
aware 38:6
43:20
B
back 23:13
24:15 31:19
55:11 56:16
background
5:2 10:25
40:12 43:1
backgrounds
5:9 39:9 41:7
bad 13:7
balance 11:4
36:16 55:13
balanced 43:15
banks 16:2
base 18:14
based 14:8
17:10 19:6,20
21:2 31:2 34:8
45:15 46:13
50:1 51:8 56:9
basically 30:24
basis 17:16 34:8
38:8
bear 24:6
began 8:4
beginning
34:21,22
beholden 39:15
believe 43:16
47:19 56:10
benefit 45:16
55:17
benefit/cost
33:24
best 24:9 30:12
32:13 33:9
43:17 48:10
60:6
better 33:15
58:16
big 16:23 30:23
bill 13:19,19 21:11
22:6,8,18,19
22:23 23:2,3
23:5,21 48:15
48:18 49:15
50:1,16,22 51:1
51:7,14,15,18
52:4,4,19,23
58:14
billed 21:1,2
22:4
billing 23:1,18
50:7
bills 22:22
bit 21:1 37:13
50:21 55:14
blacktop 18:7
blocked 15:19
blue 11:10 30:12
board 5:17 6:14
RATE COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING 5/22/2018
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
6:17,18,21
11:20,21 25:13
26:7,8 31:21
40:18 41:10
body 39:14
Botanical 44:15
boundaries
12:22 17:22
19:12 29:12
30:17
Brad 3:11 5:8
break 21:19
Brennan 34:14
34:15,17,20
35:14,17,23
36:7,10,21,24
37:1,17,20,24
38:12,18,24
39:6,18,23
40:5,10 41:4,8
41:18 42:4,8,11
42:13 43:8,22
44:1,3,10,17
Bresnan 3:14
5:8 42:17
43:11,11,25
44:2,6,9,14
Brian 3:18 10:22
27:25 28:15
45:5 47:22,23
48:11
Brian's 57:10
brief 7:22 39:6
58:4
bring 35:2
broke 52:10
build 16:22
Builders 41:1
buildings 20:23
builds 46:10
burden 24:6
business 40:9
C
C 3:1
calculate 54:8
calculated 19:8
calculating
54:6
calculation
19:20 21:21,25
call 9:1 33:11,15
called 19:9
calling 33:14
capital 17:9 19:8
19:18 34:5
care 17:3
case 29:3
56:24
cases 18:8 31:11
CCR 1:16 3:23
60:4
cell 9:10
cent 13:16
44:25
Center 1:5 2:8
2:21 59:4
cents 24:22
35:20
CEO 3:18 10:23
47:20
CERTIFICATE
60:1
Certified 2:22
60:17
certify 60:5
chairing 4:23
Chairman 3:6
11:7 25:9,15
27:18
Chan 3:13 5:8
chance 26:13
54:21
change 6:6 7:2
8:14 11:9
30:23 38:5
51:7,9
changes 5:15
6:6 33:14
38:11
channel 56:19
channels 13:5
36:2
charge 24:21
31:21
charged 19:21
22:25 26:19
charges 48:8
chart 51:20
charter 5:12,17
11:18 31:19
check 59:2
Chesterfield
30:1
chicken 34:18
churches 17:18
cities 16:25
28:18 30:18
38:3,4 45:22
46:11 47:3,5,6
citizens 16:8
26:18 39:16
city 3:9 6:3
11:22 12:6
17:18 39:9
44:24 45:2,21
46:3,6,9,9,23
47:1,8 60:3
city-owned
45:3
clarification
58:1
clarifying 52:9
clear 10:16 16:19
19:22 28:25
29:13
click 53:13
climb 57:16,17
close 10:21 49:2
closed 11:13
clouded 49:6
Coalition 3:7
collect 12:1
16:23,25 23:3
32:20,20
38:5,15
collected 21:17
36:4 38:20
45:1
collecting 23:4
23:6 32:18
45:9
collection 21:15
23:2
combination
52:7,8
combine 28:4
come 4:5,6 9:14
10:20 11:3
12:12 16:24
19:19 29:22
34:8,20 50:12
57:8,13
comes 16:13
21:20 25:6
34:25 48:16
55:16 57:6
coming 8:11
15:11 16:19
50:9 59:9
command
14:20
commenced 4:1
comment 8:15
8:17,19 9:2
41:21
comments 4:24
11:8,9 27:8
44:18 58:11
59:8
commercial
20:25 21:6,10
21:12 24:18
commercial/i ...
5:21
commission 1:3
2:6,18 3:4 5:6
5:11,14,20,20
6:2,5,7,12,12
6:17,19,22 7:1
7:9 8:4 11:6,8
11:12 15:13 16:7
19:5 25:11,12
26:3,6,11 27:4
27:8,10,12
39:1,2,8 40:14
40:17,21,24
41:11 42:2,16
43:5 51:3
53:16,18,20
53:22 54:1,3
55:21
commissioners
44:14 58:7,12
commissions
41:19,20 44:11
committed
36:18
common 20:3
56:20
commonly 18:15
communication
46:14
community 1:5
2:8,20 5:25
43:19 57:8
compacted 18:8
18:8
company 50:4
50:12
complaints
33:3
complete 41:6
completed 15:5
completely
19:22
computer 54:19
concerned 7:25
46:22
concluded
59:11
concrete 13:5
17:14 18:7
23:13 36:2
conducted 7:15
8:3
conference
7:12,18,20
conferences
7:19 8:9
confused 26:25
confusing 10:15
consider 29:1
consideration
25:13 31:5,7
RATE COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING 5/22/2018
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
considered
6:19
considering
26:23
consists 6:2
constant 46:14
constitution
11:18
consultant 6:23
7:10
consumers 7:6
43:14
contact 8:8
27:12,15,17
41:17 57:6
contained 8:8
continue 15:14
16:9 46:20
continuous
16:15
contribution
17:17 18:13
20:4
conversation
57:13
convey 55:24
conveyance
24:5
convince 55:17
coordinate 33:7
45:23 46:1,16
coordination
46:15
corner 13:16
correct 6:16
10:2 30:10
48:5
corrections
54:25
correctly 47:19
47:25 48:1
50:23 56:11
cost 17:3 23:1,5
23:8 24:14,16
24:21 45:16
46:17 48:19
48:24 51:22
costing 23:3
Council 3:15
43:12
councils 30:21
counsel 6:22
39:11 44:3,6,8
44:9 60:8,11
count 23:17
counting 9:20
country 12:14
18:22 19:2
20:3 25:5
39:20
county 3:13 6:4
11:23 12:7 18:3
31:4 39:10
42:20,22,24
43:4 55:8
couple 9:6 30:3
38:13 52:9
course 42:25
court 2:22 7:15
18:24 31:11,17
60:17
created 11:17
18:12 30:17
creature 37:9
credentials
41:13,22
credit 23:22,25
24:2,6,25
25:3
creek 16:2
55:10,10,11
56:2,16
creeks 13:25
15:24 17:22
37:12
cross-examin ...
25:19
cross-sections
44:16
curiosity 54:4
curious 41:18,22
50:23
current 6:11
26:5 35:20
51:24 52:17
53:5
currently 6:2
18:2 22:5,13
29:5
customer 21:6
21:10,12 22:17
22:25 48:22
48:24 49:14
49:15,16,21,25
51:13 52:25
customer's 51:9
customers 12:8
19:25 20:10,13
20:14,22
21:24 22:12,21
customers'
50:5
D
damage 32:23
data 32:24
54:15
date 6:16 15:3
dates 8:9
day 2:18,20
12:11 38:11
days 25:12
deal 40:1
decide 26:11
30:22 41:20
45:3
decided 26:12
31:23
decision 31:16
47:4 56:12
57:22
decisions 56:8
dedicated 12:3
degree 36:12
deliberations
27:7
deliver 26:6
dent 37:20
depends 47:2
described 14:7
describing 7:20
description
7:22
designed 15:5
desire 9:2 19:5
desk 8:23
details 24:13
58:17
determination
19:2 47:9
determine 18:13
20:4
determined
19:17
determines
39:25
develop 33:4
developed
56:22
development
17:25 18:1
24:24 25:4
develops 46:9
Diane 47:18
different 4:20
5:9 14:18 17:2
20:23 21:2
29:3 36:5
38:19 40:21
44:4,16 45:7
45:24,24
52:11 53:4
57:1
directing 27:23
direction 60:8
directly 18:11
23:24
Director 3:18
10:20,23
disclosed 50:7
discovery 7:11
25:19
discrete 14:16
discussion
9:20 11:12
12:18
district 4:22
5:12,15,17,23
6:24 8:13,17
8:18 9:14 13:10
14:12,16 15:8
16:10 20:15
21:5 24:8
27:16 29:11
36:14 38:2
39:10,16 40:18
45:9 46:21
54:13
District's 5:10
5:19 6:7 17:22
district-wide
13:9 15:12,14
15:15 17:6
29:5 34:9
35:22 36:14
45:25
districts 34:7
ditches 15:19
dive 11:4
divide 21:8
divided 19:19
dividing 28:23
document 51:17
documented
25:20
documents 7:13
7:21 53:19
55:20
doing 4:13 15:2
15:4,14 23:12
24:14,16 28:7
33:21 38:3
46:20
dollar 13:17 14:6
35:21 51:11
Don 3:14 5:8
43:11
door 4:8 9:13
doors 9:12
dots 14:23,23
14:25 35:8,9
36:19,21 37:3
37:4
double 46:22
49:18
RATE COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING 5/22/2018
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
doubling 51:10
drain 24:19
draw 42:4
drawn 42:5
driveways 17:14
19:15
drop 23:10
38:10
duplication
28:8
dynamic 38:11
E
E 3:1,1
earlier 37:5
earliest 26:13
easiest 22:9
23:8 28:24
east 30:15,16
educate 57:8
education 57:21
effect 26:15
effective 23:1
26:16 35:2
efficient 23:5
effort 28:8 57:7
efforts 52:3
egg 39:25,25
40:1
either 12:2 15:18
52:2
elaborate 39:1
election 5:13
57:7
electrical 43:13
electronically
25:21 54:18
Eleventh 1:17
3:24
eliminate 14:14
23:20 37:23
eliminating
23:19
else's 52:4
employed 60:9
60:11
employee
60:10
encourage
42:9
encroaches
37:12
Energy 7:6
engaged 6:22
7:11
engineers 40:11
ensure 5:18
entail 4:20
entire 13:10 15:8
46:6
entities 17:18
46:15 54:15
entity 11:17
Environment
3:7
environmental
5:24 40:9,11
43:3
environmenta...
25:4
equal 36:21
43:15,21
equivalent 19:9
19:21 21:5
eroded 44:23
erosion 15:7,10
16:2 17:21 18:11
30:4,7 36:20
37:10 43:20
56:1
ERU 19:9 21:3,8
23:19,21 24:19
24:19,21,23
ERUs 19:19 21:3
21:9,10,12
22:17 23:19
Especially 29:2
essentially 37:11
37:17
established
5:14
estimating 17:3
evaluating 26:9
evaluation 28:7
evaluators
39:12
evening 2:19
2:20 4:11,19
5:5 11:15
everybody 4:5
10:22 13:10
20:25 24:6
30:19,21 34:7
42:1 43:21
48:10 49:17
50:1 55:2
56:11
everybody's
17:11
everyday 49:4
exact 30:15
exactly 13:12
45:6
example 18:23
19:1 21:12
42:20 43:1
46:2
examples 19:23
23:11
excuse 34:22
executive 3:18
10:22 11:23
exempt 17:17
exhibits 25:18
55:20
exist 17:21
existing 11:1
16:15,21 18:1
35:18 36:16
exists 25:4
exits 4:16
expense 24:14
experience
15:25 47:8
explain 48:9
51:20,21 56:10
explained 31:8
35:13 42:20
explaining 32:3
explanation
10:14 28:17
expressed 19:5
extended 12:22
30:16
extension 6:17
6:20,21
F
Facebook
42:12,15
facility 24:20
fact 28:18
fair 5:18 29:12
43:15,21
fairest 18:12
fall 20:7,10,15
fallen 32:16
falling 37:11
56:2
false 31:16
familiar 56:23
Fantastic 28:14
far 4:4 17:24
31:10 51:16
fast 15:21
faster 47:7
February 6:5
7:8 25:11 27:3
feel 8:23 55:22
feet 19:11,13
20:7,12,19,21
21:4,7,9 22:18
23:20 24:10
24:12
felt 43:3
fickle 37:9
figuring 18:16
filed 7:5
final 59:5
financially 60:11
find 13:20 31:20
50:19 53:6,23
53:25
fine 34:17 39:7
finishing 33:18
first 10:25 11:16
29:15,16 30:4
33:25
fiscal 48:7
49:24
five 4:3 34:6
five-year 33:23
flexible 4:5
flood 17:24 18:2
18:5
flooding 15:7,10
15:15,17,23,25
17:21 18:1,10
36:20
Florida 50:11
flows 23:25
focusing 5:24
folks 15:17,23
20:24 26:22
26:22 27:8
28:25 29:7
30:14 32:24
55:24 56:7
57:21
follow 10:16
followed 8:17
18:21,23 19:1
following 25:21
footprint 19:16
foregoing 60:6
Forest 59:3
formal 7:11 8:2
8:25 47:14
formed 30:14
forward 19:7
21:18 26:12,15
33:4,23 35:9
40:20 52:20
57:7
found 28:23
four 16:13 20:2
21:10,12 50:10
fourth 12:13
free 8:23
front 11:6 15:13
16:7 31:20
full 13:5 21:15
25:16
fully 33:22
fund 15:22 18:16
RATE COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING 5/22/2018
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
46:8
funded 30:7
33:23 46:5
funding 16:12
31:9 33:20
36:4
funds 14:18
32:9 33:6
36:16 45:12,15
46:10,19
further 25:10
58:1 60:9
future 41:11
FY2018 3:4
G
gallons 12:11
garages 37:11
Garden 44:15
gather 33:3
45:11
gathered 32:24
gathering 33:21
45:15
general 5:13
generate 17:9
21:22,25 24:4
gentleman
27:13
geography
30:6
getting 16:5
26:19 27:9
give 10:23,24
23:25 42:17
50:24
given 13:1
giving 30:13
46:2
glad 41:16,17
52:1
go 4:2,6 5:1,2
10:13,21 23:1,4
24:14 26:8
27:5,6 28:15
29:15 30:13,19
30:21 32:11,12
32:14 33:25
34:19 38:8
41:11 43:6
45:7 49:10,10
49:11 51:6,10,11
51:15 53:20
57:7,7
goes 9:9 14:25
23:23 26:15
26:18 28:16
33:9 46:9
49:2
going 4:2,19,20
4:21 5:2,4
8:16,18 10:10
10:23,24 11:1,9
15:1 19:22 20:1
20:2 21:1,2
22:23 23:4
23:25 24:1
25:14,24
26:22 27:20
27:22,25
29:15 31:6
34:6 35:2,9
35:10,19 37:3
38:2 39:3,22
40:25 47:13
48:3,4,5,21
49:11 50:20
50:22,24
54:8 55:14,16
55:16,24 56:7
56:8 57:24
58:2 59:8
good 4:11,14,15
5:5 35:6 37:6
39:25 41:10
43:4,8,16 45:5
48:11 58:17,21
Goss 3:11 5:8
gotten 16:21
govern 6:9
governed 11:20
government
11:17 57:12
graded 15:18
granted 6:19,21
7:6
grass 17:13
grates 38:15,17
38:19
gravel 18:8
great 8:25
27:19
Greater 3:15
green 24:11
ground 17:13
23:16 56:20
group 41:14
44:20 50:8
groups 40:19
41:3
guarantee
33:12 55:1
guess 30:4
40:14 56:17
guys 54:8 55:15
H
half 20:14 21:23
22:1 44:25
halls 17:18
Hancock 14:3
30:18,23 31:11
hand-checked
54:20
handle 43:17
handout 58:4
hang 11:13
happen 15:18
26:14 33:16,19
34:3,9 38:8
40:16 46:3,11
50:4,22
happened 13:8
13:14 36:3
43:6 44:24
50:10
happening 6:10
happens 24:25
40:17
happy 57:10,12
hard 18:7,8
HBA 3:11
he'll 10:4
headings 53:23
53:24
heads 58:19
health 56:5
hear 4:22 5:3
heard 47:19
hearing 1:3 2:6
2:18 4:1 8:12
30:20,25
59:3,11
hearings 8:3,10
25:24 39:13
43:22,23
58:25 59:6
heavy 15:25
Heights 1:5 2:8
2:20,21 28:13
44:22,25
45:2,22
46:24
help 15:22
19:23,24
24:15 25:5
44:4 46:8 51:5
55:14,23
56:19
helpful 58:11
Herbert 29:17
hesitate 10:17
Hi 4:12 29:25
highest 33:24
highly 40:24
highways 24:3
hindered 33:20
hit 18:18
hits 17:12,15
hitting 23:15
Hoelscher 3:18
9:21 10:20,21
10:22 12:17
16:14,18 28:16
30:11 32:1,11,13
32:18 33:1
34:2 35:12,16
35:19,24 36:8
36:11,23,25
37:4,19,22,25
38:17,22 39:3
45:6,14 47:1
47:21,23,23
48:6,9,13,17
48:22 49:8,13
49:20,25
50:24 52:15
53:8 54:11
55:19 56:25
57:20
hold 8:19 9:8
24:12,15,20
39:13,14
home 20:18 41:1
44:23
homeowner's
55:8
homeowners
41:2 55:9
56:15
homes 55:9,11
56:16
honestly 54:12
hoping 4:6
hours 2:19
37:13
house 56:2
households
54:6
housekeeping
9:6
hundred 13:17
14:6 35:21
I
idea 58:16
identical 27:6
identified 14:3
17:1
identify 9:3
47:17 54:16
identifying 7:12
imagine 45:24
impact 24:24
51:16
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impacted 18:11
impacts 56:2
impervious 17:11
17:12,15 18:6,9
18:12,14,20
19:11,13 20:1,7
20:12,18 21:3
21:4,7 22:18
23:9,10,12,17
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25:1,7 31:6,21
51:14 52:13
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implement 17:9
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increase 48:3,4
48:14,19 49:9
increasing
32:23
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39:14,21
indicated 11:7
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38:9 54:6
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45:10 54:20
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informally
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27:17 33:8
43:24 53:23
54:13 57:6,11
57:14,21
informed 57:22
infrastructure
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initial 8:20 9:15
inlets 13:4 36:1
inside 14:25
39:12,17,21
installing 38:18
instance 16:20
21:6 23:13
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interest 43:13
43:19
interested 5:22
25:20 40:25
41:9 42:25
60:12
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intervene 7:4,5
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investigating
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invited 39:23
involved 7:7
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28:21 32:4
33:2,10 56:11
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job 37:6 43:4
jobs 43:16
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2:22 3:23
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judgment 9:9
Julie 1:16 2:22
3:23 60:4
July 21:16 53:2
June 6:13 21:16
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keep 28:24
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16:4,6 17:4
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46:15,19 47:2
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34:23 37:7,8
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laborious 54:10
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League 41:1
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44:6
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let's 8:24 16:7
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53:1
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list 4:9 9:1 29:17
32:9 33:1,11,12
34:6 38:7,10
38:11 46:5,20
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Litigation 1:16
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37:13 42:13
50:21 57:1
live 34:3 56:15
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15:24 54:12
Localized 15:17
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location 8:9
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long 9:17 18:18
longer 23:16
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20:15 31:12,19
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24:25 25:2
32:14 33:2,3
36:3 38:1,3,5
38:7 44:1 49:5
49:6 50:19,21
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50:25 54:14
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55:4 56:4
58:19
lots 22:14
Louis 1:18 3:15
3:25 6:3 8:6,6
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9:19,23 10:4,7
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28:9,11,14
29:14,20,23
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34:10,13,16,19
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40:15 41:5,15
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majority 11:4
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man-hours 44:1
management
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managers 18:3
18:5
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36:1
map 14:20,22
30:12 35:8
45:8 53:8,12
maps 53:3,4,7
March 6:9
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2:8,20,21
28:13 44:22
44:25 45:2,21
46:24
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mayor 11:22
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40:12 41:8,23
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mechanically
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27:7 28:6
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50:9 52:10
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methodology
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6:23 39:10
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middle 8:24
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14:19 15:6,10
16:5 17:5,10
19:18 21:22,23
22:1,2 34:25
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36:18,19,22
37:2,3,15,21
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minutes 4:10
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2:21,23 3:7,25
7:5 19:2 23:24
38:14,16,21
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14:18 15:2,11,11
21:19,20
34:24 35:5,9
46:13,17 49:7
money's 34:25
moneys 29:4
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month 19:22
20:9,17,19,21
21:11,13 22:25
23:2 24:23
48:24 49:3,9
49:10,21,22
49:23,23
51:23 52:23
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48:5,19 51:9
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months 22:24
23:5 50:11
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25:9 26:12,14
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6:17,18,21,22
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31:2,8 33:4
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N 3:1
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non-profit 6:1
nonresidential
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normal 50:13
North 1:17 3:13
3:24 42:20
42:22,23 43:4
notice 6:6 8:5
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notices 8:8
November 5:13
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13:20,25 14:7
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19:10,19 21:2
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numbers 22:2
52:16
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41:4 42:8,11
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51:7,7 52:15
53:3,25 54:11
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32:3,17,25
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5:25 6:1,3 9:4
28:18 30:19
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30:8,9
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48:15,19
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page 42:12,15
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50:15
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36:13,18 40:14
41:13 42:22
43:18 46:4
56:20
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20:9,16,21
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46:24 48:3
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23:25 24:2,2
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25:2,3 48:4,13
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person 7:1
27:24 29:16
34:13 49:5
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perspective
40:24
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phones 9:11
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19:14 54:15,25
55:3
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place 13:10 14:2
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30:24 39:17
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17:14 39:19
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planning 17:17
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45:22
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playing 42:3
please 8:23
9:10 10:14,16
10:17 28:3,11
32:12 34:19
34:22 38:25
47:15 57:24
plot 55:10
point 27:20
57:10
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56:9
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pool 15:20
portable 50:2
51:8
position 7:23
43:6
possible 26:17
possibly 29:13
46:16
Post-Dispatch
8:6,6
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pot 14:19 15:11
56:19
pour 18:9
practice 45:10
practices 24:9
pre-hearing 7:11
7:18,19,20
preliminary 17:4
prepare 7:21
27:10
prepared 7:14
present 3:17
8:13 38:11
43:13 56:7,14
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presentation
8:16,21 9:17
10:24 11:5
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presented 44:5
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23:21 31:3
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46:12,13
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18:10 32:21,23
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2:4,17 6:9 7:4
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27:9 30:20
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produces 13:25
program 16:9
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22:1,2 34:2,4
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project 10:1 15:1
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projects 14:23
15:5,7 16:17,18
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33:25 34:6
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20:6,20 23:9
24:10 32:6
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52:17,18,18
54:9,16 55:25
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11:9,12 15:12,13
16:7 17:8,8
20:8,16,22
25:10,12,18
26:6,10,12
27:3,10,16
28:1 29:1,10
31:20 32:5
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25:24 26:4,8
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purpose 7:12
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18:19 20:2
24:21 28:6
31:20 33:22
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putting 16:6
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Q
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43:2
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quality 13:24
quarterly 22:23
question 9:2
16:11 26:21
29:21 32:7,7
34:21 38:25
39:21 44:20
45:5 47:10,15
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questioning
7:24
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8:15,19,20
9:16,23 10:14
11:14 27:11,14
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R
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rate 1:3 2:6,17
3:4 4:23 5:6
5:10,14,20,20
6:1,5,6,7,12,12
6:22,22,25
7:2,8,9,13,21
8:1,4,14,14 9:3
10:24 11:6,8,9
11:12,12 15:12
15:13 16:7,7
17:9,19 18:6
18:20,21,24
19:4,5,8,17,20
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25:17 26:3,5,6
26:9,10,16,18
27:4,8,10,10
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30:22 31:6,12
31:13,15 39:1,2
39:8,12 40:17
40:21,23 41:10
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51:3,9,18,20
51:22,24 53:9
53:16,18,19,22
54:1,2 55:20
58:6,11
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29:10,13 46:17
rates 5:16,16,16
6:7,14 10:9
21:17 27:2,5
31:21 49:10
52:6,7
ratio 33:24
45:16
rationale 7:23
read 4:20 5:2
39:4,4 50:4,19
reading 48:2
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ready 27:9
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really 12:16
25:20 29:7
33:14 35:17
42:9 44:12
reason 22:24
24:2 31:1
32:21
reasons 12:18
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recall 22:22
receive 22:5
received 6:6
7:9 35:9
receiving 4:24
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recommenda ...
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recommenda ...
5:15 26:10
recommended
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record 7:15
recorded 32:6
recording 50:5
redevelop
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redevelopment
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reduce 23:8,8
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reduction 25:6
reference 30:13
regarding 5:15
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regardless
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regards 38:12
Regional 15:23
regulatory 13:17
13:22 14:1
32:21 33:22
35:22 52:11
related 50:25
60:8
relative 60:10
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Reporter 2:22
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representative
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requests 7:11
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29:25 32:4
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