HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 80 - Transcript of the June 29, 2018 Public Hearing 2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
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8 MEETING OF THE RATE COMMISSION OF THE METROPOLITAN
9 ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT
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11 2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS
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13 JUNE 29, 2018
14 2350 MARKET STREET, ROOM 109
15 ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63103
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1 INDEX
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3 Public Comment Page 26
4 Procedural Matters Page 46
5 Closing Statements Page 68
6 Questions of Rate Commissioners Page 104
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1 MEETING OF THE RATE COMMISSION OF THE
2 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT, 2018
3 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS, taken on the
4 29th day of June, 2018, between the hours of 9:00
5 a.m. and 11:45 a.m. of that day, at the Metropolitan
6 St. Louis Sewer District, 2350 Market Street, Room
7 109, St. Louis, Missouri 63103, before AMANDA N.
8 FARRAR, a Certified Court Reporter of the State of
9 Missouri.
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1 APPEARANCES
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3 The Commissioners:
4 Leonard Toenjes, Chair
5 Russell Hawes, Vice Chair
6 Mark Schoedel, Secretary
7 Paul Brockmann
8 Gerald Beckmann
Brad Goss
9 John Stein
Steve Mahfood
10 Paul Ziegler
Mickey Croyle
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12 For the Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer
District:
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Ms. Susan Myers
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15 For the Rate Commission:
16 Ms. Lisa O. Stump
Mr. Brian J. Malone
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18 For Missouri Industrial Energy
Consumers:
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Mr. Brandon Neuschafer
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21 The Court Reporter:
22 MS. AMANDA N. FARRAR, CCR
Alaris Litigation Services
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St. Louis, Missouri 63101
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The hearing commenced at 9:00 a.m.)
3 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Good morning.
4 Being 9 o'clock on June 29th, 2018, we will start
5 this public hearing for the rate commission for our
6 2018 stormwater rate change proceeding.
7 I will ask Mr. Schoedel to take the role
8 to begin our session this morning.
9 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you.
10 Jerry Beckmann?
11 COMMISSIONER BECKMANN: Present.
12 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Paul Brockmann?
13 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Present.
14 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Don Bresnan?
15 Mickey Croyle?
16 COMMISSIONER CROYLE: Present.
17 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Brad Goss?
18 Russell Hawes?
19 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Present.
20 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Kennard Jones?
21 Chan Mahanta?
22 Steven Mahfood?
23 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Present.
24 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Lloyd Palans?
25 Tom Ratzki?
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1 Mark Schoedel.
2 John Stein?
3 COMMISSIONER STEIN: Present.
4 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Leonard Toenjes?
5 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Present.
6 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Paul Ziegler?
7 COMMISSIONER ZIEGLER: Present.
8 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you.
9 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you all.
10 My name is Leonard Toenjes, and I will be the
11 chair -- I am the chair of the rate commission of
12 the Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District and will
13 serve as chair of this proceeding. Present are the
14 rate commissioners who just identified themselves as
15 a part of the roll call.
16 The charter plan of the district was
17 approved by the voters of St. Louis and St. Louis
18 County at a special election on February 9th, 1954,
19 and amended at a general election on November 7th,
20 2000. The amendment to the charter plan established
21 the rate commission to review and make
22 recommendations to the district regarding changes in
23 wastewater rates, stormwater rates, and tax rates
24 proposed by the district.
25 Upon receipt of a rate change notice
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1 from the district, the rate commission is to
2 recommend to the board of trustees changes in the
3 wastewater, stormwater or tax rate necessary to pay
4 interest and principal falling due on bonds issued
5 to finance assets of the district, the cost of
6 operation and maintenance, and such amounts as may
7 be required to cover emergencies and anticipated
8 delinquencies.
9 Further, any change in a rate
10 recommended to the board of trustees by the rate
11 commission is to be accompanied by a statement that
12 the proposed rate change is consistent with
13 constitutional, statutory, or common law as amended
14 from time to time; enhances the district's ability
15 to provide adequate sewer and drainage systems at
16 facilities or related services; is consistent with
17 and not in violation of any covenant or provision
18 relating to any outstanding bonds or indebtedness of
19 the district; does not impair the ability of the
20 district to comply with applicable federal or state
21 laws or regulations as amended from time to time;
22 and imposes a fair and reasonable burden on all
23 classes of ratepayers.
24 The rate commission received a rate
25 change notice from the district on February 26th,
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1 2018. Under procedural rules adopted by the rate
2 commission, any person affected by the rate change
3 proposal had an opportunity to submit an application
4 to intervene in these proceedings. An application
5 to intervene was filed by the Missouri Industrial
6 Energy Consumers.
7 The rate commission originally had until
8 June 26th, 2018, to issue its report on the proposed
9 rate change notice to the board of trustees of the
10 district. The rate commission requested an
11 additional 45 days to issue its report, and on
12 May 1st, 2018, the district's board of trustees
13 granted the rate commission's request. The rate
14 commission must now issue its report on or before
15 August 10th, 2018.
16 Since February 26th, 2018, the rate
17 commission has received testimony from MSD staff,
18 the intervenor and the rate consultant. The parties
19 have also engaged in discovery requests. Technical
20 conferences were held on April 4th, 2018; May 17th,
21 2018, and June 7th, 2018, where the participants and
22 the rate commission were given an opportunity to ask
23 questions of those submitting testimony.
24 A prehearing conference for the purpose
25 of identifying any issues raised by the rate setting
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1 documents and the prepared testimony previously
2 submitted was conducted on the record on June 21st,
3 2018. Each participant in the prehearing conference
4 submitted on or before June 28th, 2018, a prehearing
5 conference report describing the issues raised by
6 the rate setting documents and the prepared
7 testimony together with a brief description of each
8 participants' position, if any, on each issue and
9 the rationale therefore.
10 Ratepayers who do not wish to intervene
11 are permitted to participate in on-the-record public
12 hearing sessions conducted in several sessions
13 beginning on May 20 -- May 8th, 2018, and concluding
14 today. The rate commission's operational rules
15 provide that this public hearing session will be
16 held on the record to permit ratepayers and
17 taxpayers to testify regarding the proposed rate
18 change; receive into evidence any prepared testimony
19 previously submitted to the commission subject to
20 any valid objections, together with discovery
21 responses and transcripts of the technical
22 conferences; permit the commission members to ask
23 questions regarding any issue addressed by the
24 prepared testimony or any other element of the
25 proposed rate change; and permit closing arguments
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1 by the district, the intervenors, and legal counsel
2 for the rate commission.
3 Before proceeding to other aspects of
4 this public hearing, we will begin with a public
5 comment period. Those wishing to speak should have
6 signed in on the sheet provided there at the door
7 and will be called in the order of the names listed
8 thereon. Each ratepayer should identify themselves
9 and any organizations represented by such ratepayer.
10 Are there members of the public present
11 who wish to comment?
12 Seeing several. Is the sheet back
13 there? Could you bring that forward, please.
14 Thank you. We will -- prior to the
15 public comments, we will have the district briefly
16 summarize the rate change proposal and then we will
17 move on to the public comment period.
18 Mr. Hoelscher, please proceed.
19 MR. HOELSCHER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
20 Thank you public who are in attendance
21 and those rate commissioners who haven't seen this
22 presentation before. I'm going to do a couple
23 things. One, I'm going to give you an overview of
24 MSD overall, give you a presentation on the existing
25 stormwater funding that exists within MSD, talk
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1 about -- and then talk about the stormwater rate
2 proposal.
3 Those of you who have specific problems,
4 we will also -- we have some MSD personnel here
5 regarding specific issues. After this
6 presentation's done and the public comment's done
7 and we close, if you'd like to talk with those
8 individuals, they're here to have discussions with
9 you as well.
10 So, first of all, a quick overview of
11 MSD. We are a government utility created under
12 provisions of the State Constitution and have a
13 voter-approved charter. Our governance consists of
14 six board members, three from the city, three from
15 the county. We are two utilities in one. We are a
16 wastewater utility with a separate set of revenues
17 and a separate set of requirements, as well as a
18 stormwater utility. We collect separate revenues
19 and those revenues are not mixed. Those collected
20 for wastewater are spent for wastewater. Those
21 collected for stormwater are collected for
22 stormwater. 520 square mile area, 1.3 million
23 customers, 88 different municipalities exist within
24 MSD's boundaries. On the wastewater side, seven
25 treatment plants are treating approximately 350
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1 million gallons per day of sewage, and just about
2 10,000 miles of storm sewers, which makes us the
3 fourth largest sewer system in the United States.
4 Current status of stormwater funding,
5 most recently we've had something called Proposition
6 S in April 2016. What that addressed was the
7 ability for MSD to have a district-wide fund in
8 order to operate and maintain the storm sewers.
9 Prior to the passage of Proposition S, MSD owned and
10 operated as funded the public storm sewer system
11 within I-270 and east of Lindbergh. West of
12 Lindbergh and west of I-270 MSD became responsible
13 for the public stormwater system in 1989, but was
14 not given any funding. With the passage of
15 Proposition S, for the first time MSD actually has a
16 revenue source to operate and maintain the public
17 storm sewer system. And again, the public storm
18 sewer system being storm sewers, inlets, manholes
19 and fully paved concrete channels.
20 Current status of funding. If you look
21 on the upper left-hand corner, MSD currently
22 collects two sources of revenue for stormwater. One
23 is a 2 cent per 100 dollar valuation property tax,
24 so a charge of .0188. That 2-cent tax is to take
25 care of the regulatory side of our stormwater
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1 services and that is addressing pollutants that are
2 transmitted to local creeks and streams during
3 rainfall events. That tax has been in place,
4 designated specifically for that purpose, since 1979
5 prior to the Hancock Amendment, and it has proved
6 sufficient for us to address our stormwater
7 regulatory issues.
8 We also currently have the stormwater
9 tax, that is the 10-cent property tax that was
10 passed with Proposition S. Again, for the first
11 time MSD actually has a revenue to operate and
12 maintain the public storm sewer system that it owns.
13 With the passage of Proposition S, there were 23
14 other sources of stormwater revenue that were
15 restricted by geographic areas that were either
16 eliminated or set to zero. When we did that, it
17 resulted in a pot of $67 million. This map is the
18 one we used during Proposition S and is still on our
19 website. MSD went through its list of stormwater
20 issues regarding erosion and flooding, took the
21 prioritized projects, and we're going to use that
22 $67 million to work down that list.
23 If you look on our website, that map is
24 there. Within each one of those dots is a number.
25 That number refers to a project on spreadsheet. And
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1 if you go to that, you'll see on that spreadsheet
2 where the project is, what the problem is, what the
3 resolution is, how much we're spending and when it
4 will get done. We have about 30 percent of those
5 projects constructed, another 30 or 40 percent that
6 are under design, and another 30 or so will be
7 addressed in the near future.
8 So, that 67 million, again, is
9 addressing district-wide erosion and flooding. The
10 kick is once that $67 million is spent, there are no
11 other revenues. The pot becomes empty.
12 This rate proposal is to see if the
13 voting public would like for MSD to continue
14 providing erosion and flooding control projects
15 throughout the district. That's the purpose of this
16 rate proposal.
17 Just a graphic de -- well, a graphic
18 example of some of the problems. There's localized
19 flooding. Oftentimes that reveals itself of
20 localized flooding in backyards where stormwater's
21 not getting away, where stormwater's causing issues.
22 Regional flooding. Not just like the Meramec that
23 we've had the problems twice over the last 30
24 months, but areas such as River Des Peres or Fishpot
25 Creek or some of the other smaller creeks, smaller
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1 creeks in the area that have a little flooding.
2 And then erosion. In this example you
3 happen to see what's next to a street where we have
4 erosion that's threatening homes, threatening
5 garages, threatening roadways.
6 A lot of the solutions to these problems
7 are being proposed are to try and find engineering
8 solutions. You'll find that a lot of the options
9 that we're considering are actually purchasing
10 properties and getting folks out of these dangerous
11 situations.
12 How big does the pot look? MSD, as part
13 of its regulatory service, collects all kinds of
14 stormwater problems throughout the district. This
15 is a map that's depicted of the issues that we have
16 been made aware of by either the public or the
17 individual municipalities. There's about 500. At
18 the time we did this count, there's about 500.
19 Totals about 562 million. These are preliminary
20 estimates of the entire program, about what the size
21 is. There is no funding to start addressing these
22 issues. The dots you see out there, they range from
23 a lot of things. There are issues where there is
24 erosion that is up to the back door of a house all
25 the way down to folks who are dissatisfied with
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1 after a storm water sits in their backyard too long.
2 There's just a whole range of problems, but that
3 gives you a sense of about the size of the issue.
4 What MSD's proposing is to fund a $30
5 million per year capital stormwater program. The
6 way to do this is to charge based on impervious
7 area. Kind of in a condensed way, the average
8 charge proposed for a single family home is $2.25
9 per month, or $27 per year to fund this program.
10 Tax-exempt entities will be subject to the
11 stormwater capital rate as well. Again, it's meant
12 to address unfunded stormwater issues, which are
13 flooding and erosion issues. Based on what we know,
14 we can get the program done in about 30 years. That
15 is a guess. Stormwater problems go up and they go
16 down. Sometimes there are problems and by the time
17 you get to them, they're not problems anymore and
18 new problems exist. So, it's kind of a moving
19 target. It's a guess we can get it done in about
20 that time.
21 Creeks and streams as they are now will
22 continue to remain private, and the floodplain
23 management responsibilities, those individuals who
24 are located in the floodplains, have homes there,
25 the floodplain managers are currently individual
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1 municipalities in the county. That responsibility
2 will remain with them.
3 Again, we're going to base this on
4 impervious rate -- impervious area. What's an
5 impervious area? That's things such as rooftops,
6 concrete, driveways, sidewalks, any place where the
7 water hits the ground, hits a hard surface, doesn't
8 soak in, and run off. We're going to base your
9 charge on how much of that you have on each
10 property. The amount of that extra runoff, that
11 immediate runoff that comes off those impervious
12 areas is the biggest driver we have in generating
13 the water that causes the issues that we're trying
14 to address. We believe it's a fair way to
15 distribute the revenue contributions to address
16 these areas -- to address these problems. It's a
17 method that's commonly used throughout the United
18 States.
19 And again, as I mentioned, all public
20 and private properties as well as not-for-profit are
21 proposed to pay for this rate.
22 I'm not going to go through this in
23 detail, but if you remember ten years ago MSD went
24 through the process of putting forward stormwater
25 revenue through an impervious rate, not a voted-on
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1 charge, but an impervious rate. We based it on what
2 we knew throughout the country, what we knew on past
3 Supreme Court rulings in the State of Missouri.
4 Ultimately, the Supreme Court decided that the
5 problem with the rate we were proposing is they felt
6 that folks should be able to vote on that rate.
7 Therefore, it was overturned and we're where we're
8 at today. One of the things that did come out of
9 both the ruling as well as some of the proceedings
10 from this rate commission, they felt impervious area
11 was a fair way to distribute the cost of these
12 programs. You're seeing that in this proposal
13 today.
14 We're going to base this on something
15 called ERU or equivalent residential units. It's
16 the average amount of square footage on the average
17 residential property. In MSD's boundaries, that
18 happens to be 2,600 square feet. How did we come up
19 with the proposed rate? We took the total amount of
20 impervious area or the number of ERUs, depending how
21 we calculated it, divided by what we -- the
22 recommended program of about $30 million per year
23 and that's how we came up with the charge. Again,
24 in general, the charge is $2.25 per month for the
25 average property owner. Now, there are variations
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1 to that. I'm going to go down this chart and give
2 you a little more detail about how much MSD is
3 proposing individual groups pay towards this issue.
4 Single family residential customers we
5 calculate on a four-tier system. That will depend
6 on how much impervious area they have on their
7 property. We're going to do it based on four
8 different tiers. It's a common practice that's used
9 for residential properties throughout the county,
10 and it's going to be basically the amount of
11 impervious area.
12 So, if you see under tiers, we'll have
13 something called tier one. If your property has
14 between 200 and 2,000 square feet of impervious area
15 on your residential property, you'll be asked to pay
16 a $1.42 a month. That represents about one quarter
17 of the residential properties in MSD's boundaries.
18 If you're in tier two, which is 2,001 to
19 3,600 square feet, you will be asked to pay $2.25
20 per month or about $27 per year. Half of MSD's
21 residential customers fall in that tier two bucket.
22 Then for some of the larger properties
23 that have more impervious area residential between
24 3,601 and 6,000 square feet will be asked under the
25 proposal to pay $3.74 per month; and if you're a
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1 residential customer with 6,000 square feet or more
2 of impervious area, you'll be asked to pay $6.84 per
3 month.
4 Now, those are for residential
5 customers. Multi-family, commercial customers and
6 other nonresidential customers are going to be
7 charged based on ERUs, equivalent residential units
8 and, again, the average residential unit has 2,600
9 square feet. So, we're going to bill nonresidential
10 properties on the number of ERUs that are on their
11 property.
12 Here's an example. The commercial
13 customer has 10,000 square feet of impervious area.
14 Take that 10,000, divide it by 2,600, which is one
15 ERU. You come up with about 3.85 ERUs. MSD rounds
16 that up to 4, charges you 4 times $2.25 per month,
17 which is the cost of an ERU. That commercial
18 property would then be paying $9 per month for this
19 rate.
20 The rates would start to be collected in
21 January 2020, if it passes. The first full fiscal
22 year that we would collect revenues would be
23 starting July 1, 2021.
24 Under this scenario, single family
25 residential units will be paying about $14 million
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1 towards the $30 million a year pot. Nonresidential
2 customers will be paying about $16 million towards
3 the $30 million pot, and it's simply a function of
4 where the impervious area happens to exist.
5 Frequency of billing will depend. For
6 those who currently are MSD wastewater customers,
7 that charge will simply be added to your monthly
8 bill. We do have customers who are not wastewater
9 customers and a good example would be a very large
10 parking lot that doesn't have wastewater service.
11 Larger nonresidential areas that have at least 20
12 ERUs of impervious area, our plan is to also bill
13 them once a month. It will be the only bill they
14 get from MSD and that's for stormwater service and
15 not wastewater. And then, finally, all other
16 customers who don't receive an MSD wastewater bill
17 and have a low amount of impervious area, we're
18 going to bill them on a quarterly basis. We do have
19 residential customers who aren't wastewater
20 customers. They would be paying typically $2.25 per
21 month. It's not cost effective for MSD to send a
22 monthly bill to collect $2.25 per month. So, those
23 folks we plan on billing quarterly for $7.75 for
24 every three months.
25 There are -- forgot to change it.
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1 There are incentive programs if you take
2 your impervious area and change it to pervious.
3 Simply, it won't count as impervious area. So,
4 green roofs and engineered pervious pavement are not
5 billable areas. The example we saw ten years ago
6 when we started the impervious rate is somebody, for
7 instance, taking their back concrete patio, they
8 want to replace it, and they replace it with
9 pervious blocks or pavers that allow water to soak
10 into the ground. That will change it from an
11 impervious area to a pervious area. For a
12 residential customer, if they do enough of that to
13 lower them a tier, it will impact their rates.
14 For a commercial customer, for every
15 2,600 square foot block of impervious area that they
16 do something like that to, they would then have
17 their rate reduced by $2.25 per month.
18 We do have properties that run off
19 directly to large rivers, Missouri, Mississippi, and
20 Meramec that MSD has no responsibility for and
21 there's other equivalent situations. They will
22 receive a 70 percent credit on their stormwater
23 bill. That comes from the fact that 30 percent of
24 the impervious area in the district exists on things
25 like public roads, public streets, public sidewalks
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1 that are in the public right-of-way. Those
2 impervious areas are not being measured because they
3 also serve as stormwater conveyance facilities, but
4 there do need -- we need to capture that revenue --
5 that capture somewhere. So, everybody will be
6 expected to at least pay 30 percent on the rate.
7 That's the largest credit that anybody will be able
8 to get.
9 Best management practices. For
10 residential customers who have taken 500 square feet
11 of their impervious area and bring it to a treated
12 area or a rain guard that meets our current
13 standards for rain guards, which is about a one-year
14 store, we can offer an upfront incentive payment of
15 $135 towards the cost of putting that in place.
16 That presents a savings to the typical residential
17 customer of five years of stormwater rate.
18 Commercial customers, if they take the
19 impervious area, instead of removing an ERU, for
20 every ERU that they instead let remain but run it
21 off to an area such as a rain guard, we'll allow
22 them a 50 percent credit on the impervious area that
23 is going to a rain guard.
24 There's also a low-impact development,
25 which could result in a 35 percent credit. This
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1 applies when the impervious area on a residential
2 property is less than 15 percent of the total parcel
3 area and the minimum size of at least 3 acres.
4 There's an environmentally sensitive development
5 design standard that exists throughout the country.
6 That combination reduces the amount of runoff coming
7 off of impervious areas. We're going to take
8 advantage of that and folks in that situation can
9 apply for a 35 percent credit.
10 What does the timeline look like?
11 MSD -- I'm repeating some of the things that
12 Chairman Toenjes just said.
13 We submitted a proposal to the rate
14 commission on February 26th, 2018. The rate
15 commission has 165 days to do this review.
16 Technical meetings were held, as the Chairman
17 indicated. If you go to MSD's website at
18 stlmsd.com, you will find a full record of every
19 testimony, every transcript, every exhibit that's
20 been submitted, as well as the rate proposal itself,
21 in case you're interested. Public hearings, this
22 being the last one.
23 Under the current schedule, the rate
24 commission is scheduled to deliver our board of
25 trustees a recommendation by August 10th. Between
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1 August and the end of the calendar year our board is
2 scheduled to review the recommendation from the rate
3 commission and basically consider the same factors
4 that the rate commission considered to decide
5 ultimately what MSD's proposed rate to the public
6 will look like.
7 Assuming we move forward, right now the
8 earliest chance for a public vote is in April 2019.
9 There could be one of two results. Assuming it
10 stays somewhat the way I've directed to you, in
11 April 2019 the public could vote yes and if they do,
12 MSD will start collecting that revenue in
13 January 2020. We'll start the process of putting a
14 $30 million per year program in place. If the
15 public vote no -- votes no, MSD will not provide the
16 service.
17 And, Mr. Chairman, we do have some
18 information. Again, the rate commission proceedings
19 are on the website. I would offer again, after this
20 public presentation's done, if some individuals
21 would like to talk about individual things with any
22 of our staff, we can leave this room. You don't
23 want to disrupt the public proceedings. We can have
24 that discussion after you're done with anything
25 you'd like to speak with the rate commission about.
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1 Mr. Chairman, that completes the
2 presentation.
3 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you,
4 Mr. Hoelscher. I appreciate that.
5 We will move forward, then, with the
6 public comment in the order of signing in. So, the
7 first person to sign up is Ryan Thomas.
8 Ryan, thank you for being here today and
9 we look forward to hearing your comments.
10 MR. THOMAS: Sure. Could I spin this
11 around to face the commission?
12 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: You may turn it
13 any direction you care to.
14 MR. THOMAS: Okay. Thank you,
15 commissioners. My name's Ryan Thomas. I'm the city
16 administrator for the City of Wildwood. Appreciate
17 hearing the presentation. Stormwater issues are
18 quite prevalent in Wildwood, as I'm sure they are
19 throughout the MSD district. We frequently hear
20 from our residences about various local flooding and
21 erosion issues, and I think it's a very good thing
22 that MSD is looking at options to address not only
23 the wastewater, but continuing to see how it can
24 fund stormwater projects.
25 I only have a couple of comments related
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1 to what I've seen thus far. Of course, you have the
2 map identifying the roughly 500 projects that have
3 been identified. I do know from hearing from our
4 residents that there are a number of other projects
5 that don't appear on that map, and I've already
6 started the process of trying to put together a list
7 to provide to the staff to make sure that those
8 other locations are considered.
9 And related to that, this is maybe more
10 of a question. The funds are, obviously, going to
11 be collected district-wide and then prioritized, as
12 I understand, on a cost to benefit analysis. The
13 question would be is how to fairly distribute that
14 regionally because I guess the potential exists that
15 funding will be collected throughout the district,
16 but maybe more of the projects occur in one area
17 where some bigger identified problems exist. The
18 question would be is: Has anything been considered
19 as to, perhaps, looking at each watershed separately
20 and the funds that are collected in each watershed
21 than be devoted to projects in those watersheds?
22 That would be a way to, I think, potentially ensure
23 that some -- any of the fees that are paid by
24 people, they have some assurance that it's going to
25 return to projects in their area. I'm sure
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1 everyone -- I'm new to really seeing all this
2 information. It may have been something that's been
3 considered already, but I just thought I'd throw
4 that out as something to keep in mind. Certainly as
5 this moves forward to the next step or the final
6 step of requesting voter approval, I think the
7 voters will want to see how is this going to help
8 our area versus the entire district.
9 So, appreciate everything you're doing
10 here and, as I said, I'll continue to identify
11 projects for your staff and hope that if this moves
12 forward, we'll be able to see some projects occur in
13 our part of the county. So, unless there's
14 questions for me, that's all I have.
15 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any questions for
16 Mr. Thomas?
17 Yes, Mr. Schoedel.
18 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Has the City of
19 Wildwood ever considered doing their own, some type
20 of fee structure to help alleviate some of their
21 individual projects and erosion and flooding issues
22 within the City of Wildwood?
23 MR. THOMAS: The city has undertaken
24 some projects itself as it pertains to city
25 infrastructure. It has mostly involved major creek
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1 erosion impacting roadways potentially from damage.
2 We've completed a number of projects with existing
3 city funding where it protects public
4 infrastructure. As it pertains to private
5 properties, we do not have a revenue source as a
6 city. We had about nine years ago put on our ballet
7 the parks and stormwater sales tax and it did not
8 pass. It was very close, and it's something that we
9 are also considering maybe again in the future both
10 for the purposes of parks and stormwater. So,
11 currently no, but potentially we may pursue
12 something at the city level as well.
13 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you.
14 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, Commissioner
15 Stein.
16 COMMISSIONER STEIN: Mr. Thomas, do you
17 feel the City of Wildwood has adequate procedures in
18 place for permitting planning and zoning to reduce
19 the number of potential problems in the future?
20 MR. THOMAS: I believe that we do. We
21 have, I believe, some of the most restrictive
22 environmental ordinances related to development.
23 And certainly any proposal that comes forward we're
24 working collectively with the MSD engineering staff
25 on reviewing projects and finding opportunities for
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1 low-impact development methods and best management
2 practices for stormwater. So, I believe we do, and
3 we share with MSD in trying to do everything we can
4 to prevent future stormwater issues from escalating.
5 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Further comments,
6 questions?
7 Commissioner Goss.
8 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Yes. Has the City
9 of Wildwood participated in any shared funding
10 programs with other agencies to address problems in
11 the city?
12 MR. THOMAS: Yes, we have. Some of the
13 projects that I mentioned that deal with protection
14 of public infrastructure, we've leveraged city
15 funding with some grant programs and I believe one
16 of those many years ago was actually through MSD, if
17 I'm not mistaken, but I know we worked with the Army
18 Corps of Engineers and the Department of Natural
19 Resources on some projects as well.
20 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Can you describe
21 those grant programs in anymore detail in terms of
22 the amount of funding, who initiated the grant
23 program? Was it something that was just available
24 and Wildwood pursued it, or did somebody reach
25 out -- did an agency reach out to Wildwood about
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1 that program?
2 MR. THOMAS: It's been a number of years
3 since we've had a project such as that. As I
4 recall, some of the projects the city initiated and
5 then there were others that the Army Corps of
6 Engineers had initiated, and then I believe MSD was
7 involved in identifying opportunities like that as
8 well. Of course, a lot of times, as you-all are
9 probably aware, MSD will end up completing the
10 stormwater project because it's protecting your
11 wastewater infrastructure, which ends up addressing
12 two issues through the need to prevent sanitary
13 sewer line from getting washed out from creek
14 erosion. That's a common example, I think, that's
15 been seen.
16 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Has the city
17 participated in other grant funded -- shared funding
18 programs outside of the stormwater context? For
19 example, road building or road maintenance.
20 MR. THOMAS: Absolutely. They're mostly
21 in the area of transportation through the programs
22 that East-West Gateway manages, surface
23 transportation program, the congestion mitigation
24 and air quality program, the transportation -- used
25 to be called transportation enhancements program for
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1 pedestrian, bicycle-type projects. So, there seems
2 to be a lot of funding out there for transportation
3 related projects with outside funding through
4 federal grants that the city's been very involved
5 with. The municipal parks grant is another that
6 we've taken advantage of for municipal parks
7 project.
8 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Have you given any
9 thought to how a shared funding program with MSD
10 could work in the context of this stormwater rate
11 when it's being proposed?
12 MR. THOMAS: Well, I haven't thought of
13 it until you just mentioned it, but certainly
14 similar to these other programs, if MSD were to have
15 this, this, this new funding it could potentially
16 consider offering a similar type grant program where
17 maybe there's a competitive process with
18 municipalities submitting project proposals where
19 the city provides a local match to support the
20 project as well. That would, obviously, extend the
21 funding further. That's just off the top of my
22 head. I hadn't thought about that until a couple
23 minutes ago.
24 COMMISSIONER GOSS: And do you believe
25 that the City of Wildwood would want to participate
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1 in such a shared funding program, if it were
2 available?
3 MR. THOMAS: I think we would, yes.
4 COMMISSIONER GOSS: And do you have any
5 opinion as to whether that kind of shared funding
6 program would maximize the funds available for
7 stormwater control that's being proposed?
8 MR. THOMAS: I think it definitely
9 would. I think that's a very, very good idea to
10 consider related to this.
11 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Thank you.
12 MR. THOMAS: Sure.
13 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, Commissioner
14 Schoedel.
15 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Just to clarify,
16 you've done a lot of research, your city has done
17 research and found grants for transportation and
18 parks. In that research did you ever find any kind
19 of grants out there specifically for stormwater?
20 MR. THOMAS: Specifically for
21 stormwater, it seems compared to the transportation
22 area there's, there's not as much. I think with
23 transportation projects there can at times be a
24 stormwater element to it, but strictly stormwater
25 grant programs I've not seen a lot other than some
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1 of the work with the other agencies like the Army
2 Corps of Engineers who typically initiate and manage
3 stormwater projects as well.
4 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you.
5 MR. THOMAS: Sure.
6 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, Commissioner
7 Brockmann.
8 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Does your
9 municipality charge a parks and stormwater tax?
10 MR. THOMAS: It does not. We placed it
11 on the November 2008 ballot and I think it was
12 defeated about 52 to 48 percent, but we've
13 considered pursuing that again at some point in the
14 future.
15 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any further
16 questions or comments?
17 One of the points that we take into
18 consideration in our five points is to impose a rate
19 that is fair and reasonable on all classes of
20 ratepayers. So, I appreciate you bringing this up
21 and it's certainly something that we will have on
22 the record as we move forward. Thank you so much
23 for taking your time to be here this morning.
24 MR. THOMAS: Appreciate it.
25 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you.
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1 The next person who is signed up to
2 provide some comments is Laverne Mitchom.
3 MS. MITCHOM: Good morning.
4 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Good morning.
5 MS. MITCHOM: I'm Laverne Mitchom and I
6 am a former council member for the City of Ferguson.
7 I'm here to present a letter from citizens in
8 Ferguson who are experiencing severe soil erosion.
9 Our town has experienced serious land
10 and property issues with no assistance from MSD, and
11 at times has not been treated very well, considering
12 that Ferguson was the city that organized meetings
13 to bring about a vote to create St. Louis
14 Metropolitan Sewer District with four other
15 additional communities. MSD accepted all the funds,
16 but did not make any improvements for years. It is
17 amazing the way this city has been treated after
18 being instrumental in the acceptance of MSD as the
19 sewer district.
20 If MSD wants another yes vote from the
21 voters, they need to determine how to help residents
22 that are losing their homes and land, in many cases
23 their life savings, because stormwater sheds were
24 not maintained in Ferguson. A home is an investment
25 you made to hopefully live in after you retire. In
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1 local subdivisions there has been no upkeep and
2 other subdivisions received multiple repairs.
3 Residents do not understand the choices or favors
4 that are happening.
5 MSD is an entity that should keep
6 activities at arm's length, and all residents and
7 subdivisions in the area should be treated equally.
8 Possibly asking voters what they would
9 like to see corrected as a brainstorming meeting
10 would improve how people see and perceive MSD.
11 Choosing high-visibility places to repair can cause
12 more harm than goodwill because many residents see
13 the same areas being repaired multiple times.
14 Many voters have very negative opinions
15 of MSD. Big adjustments needs to be made to improve
16 relations between MSD and the voters prior to
17 bringing a tax increase to the voters.
18 This letter is signed by residents who
19 have lived in Ferguson maybe 40 years, some 20, 30
20 years. I have signed this letter. My husband and
21 I, we've only been in Ferguson 12 years, but Kathy
22 Larue, who has been in the City of Ferguson for 40
23 years, has a lot of historical, detailed information
24 and she actually experienced her daughter and
25 son-in-law having to move because the erosion got so
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1 bad they had to leave their home. So, this is
2 signed by Kathy Larue, Paul Larue, Clyde Mitchom,
3 Jerry Wright, and Laverne Mitchom, and I have
4 attached several citizens who attended the recent
5 town hall on June 20th in Ferguson.
6 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: That's wonderful.
7 Thank you very much.
8 Do any of the rate commissioners have
9 any questions for Ms. Mitchom?
10 Yes, Commissioner Goss.
11 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Ms. Mitchom, thank
12 you for coming today. We've talked about a credit
13 program being available for residents and that was
14 mentioned in the testimony that you heard earlier
15 and that's been something that's been the subject of
16 a lot of debate with various witnesses who have
17 appeared before this commission. Do you believe
18 that a stormwater credit program as part of this
19 rate would help to improve the relationships of MSD
20 with the residents of the district, in particular
21 the residents of Ferguson?
22 MS. MITCHOM: Okay. When you say
23 credit, is that along with the proposal to tax the
24 citizens?
25 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Yes, ma'am. As part
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1 of the rate proposal folks who undertake projects in
2 their property to address stormwater issues would be
3 eligible for a credit against the cost of those
4 projects.
5 MS. MITCHOM: If it would directly help
6 us in terms of the soil erosion, because many of the
7 citizens in Ferguson they believe that we're having
8 soil erosion due to the maintenance of the
9 stormwater and wastewater. But if we were given
10 that and it would directly help with our soil
11 erosion problem, they may -- you know, they possibly
12 would want to do that, but we want direct help with
13 what's going on with our property eroding away.
14 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Do you know if the
15 City of Ferguson has passed a stormwater and parks
16 tax?
17 MS. MITCHOM: I don't think they have.
18 I have Councilwoman Ella Jones here and we were
19 talking on our way here and we were listening to the
20 person who was just before me. No, we do not. And
21 she shook her head, no, we don't. We do not.
22 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Do you know if
23 that's something the City of Ferguson would consider
24 placing on a ballot and trying to adopt?
25 MS. MITCHOM: Well, right now, as most
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1 of you all know, much of what's going on in Ferguson
2 right now there isn't a lot of money to do a lot of
3 things, but that would be something that could
4 possibly, you know, be a suggestion and I'm not sure
5 if, you know, it would be passed, but that's
6 something we could look at.
7 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Do you think the
8 City of Ferguson would be more likely to pass such a
9 measure if the money generated by that measure could
10 be used to match funds available from MSD?
11 MS. MITCHOM: Yes. And it would be used
12 to help us with soil erosion?
13 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Yes, ma'am.
14 MS. MITCHOM: Yeah, I think so.
15 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Thank you, ma'am.
16 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any other
17 questions for Ms. Mitchom?
18 Thank you so much for being here this
19 morning. It's extremely helpful for us --
20 MS. STUMP: Mr. Chair.
21 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes.
22 MS. STUMP: I'm sorry. Lisa
23 interrupting you.
24 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, Lisa.
25 MS. STUMP: Can we get that letter put
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1 in as an exhibit?
2 MS. MITCHOM: I'm sorry. I move to
3 submit this letter.
4 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: You could give it
5 to Ms. Stump and then it will become part of the
6 official record. Thank you so much.
7 Elaine Laura. Thank you, Ms. Laura.
8 Thank you for being here this morning. Please
9 proceed.
10 MS. LAURA: You're welcome.
11 Thank you everyone for this opportunity
12 to speak. My heartstrings are crossed that I do not
13 become too emotional during this portion. I'm just
14 an average Joe, retired teacher, 30 years with
15 University City.
16 I'm happy to report that I am a
17 homeowner and my taxes are current. My parents left
18 me two pieces of property. I'm current on those
19 taxes also. Unfortunately, I receive three MSD
20 bills every month and it's difficult.
21 You said that you were going to look at
22 how MSD and this tax rate proposal will affect
23 people. I'm a member of the north side. My
24 parents' properties are in the north side of
25 St. Louis. The average household income in the 21st
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1 ward is a little less than $15,000 a year. My
2 monthly bill on the property in the 21st ward is $56
3 and some change. Once last year I got behind. MSD
4 called me every morning. I was afraid.
5 He talked about Wildwood and not wanting
6 to share the funds with and I felt the north side.
7 In the fourth ward where our homestead, where I grew
8 up, the average income is $13,000. We are affected
9 by LRA properties.
10 I can't get a loan on my parents' home
11 to make any type of improvements. I'm on fixed
12 income. My monthly bill on the homestead is $62 and
13 some change. MSD always puts change on that bill.
14 The average income household in that ward is even
15 less.
16 I think MSD has done a fine job with the
17 stormwater projects where you take vacant land
18 supposedly a homeowner has decided, but where I see
19 them in the fourth ward there's no homeowner there.
20 MSD has placed some plants and made stormwater
21 capabilities there. But I can't say that I support
22 this tax. I think that MSD lacks diversity. I am
23 concerned about where these projects will take
24 place. I look at this board and I don't feel
25 anybody lives like me up here. I don't think you
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1 represent the area. I don't feel as though you've
2 made enough effort to find grants that will enable
3 this project. I don't think you have addressed
4 urban sprawl. Why should people move to areas that
5 are prone to flooding?
6 I don't think it's fair. I'm trapped.
7 No, I'm not trapped. I want to live on the north
8 side. I'm a taxpayer, but I need support. I did
9 try for the citizen's rate reduction, but because I
10 worked 30 years and I only live in one place I'm not
11 eligible for the deduction in my rates that MSD
12 offers. I can't get any support on my family's
13 homestead through that program. I guess I should be
14 happy that I'm not that poor. Thank you.
15 Any questions?
16 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any questions or
17 comments?
18 Ms. Laura, I will say that I also live
19 in University City and I'm current on my taxes, and
20 I appreciate you being here this morning to present
21 your perspective on what we're doing. Certainly we
22 will not ignore your comments and take it into
23 serious consideration as we move forward.
24 MS. LAURA: Thank you.
25 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Our next member
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1 of the public is Ella Jones.
2 MS. JONES: Mr. Chairman, I have nothing
3 to add. Laverne Mitchom said it all. Thank you.
4 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you so much
5 for being here.
6 Are there any other members of the
7 public who arrived subsequent to this?
8 Thank you. For those of you who are
9 here from the public, each and every one of you,
10 thanks so much for being here today and providing
11 your testimony. I'm going to suggest that we will
12 take a brief break until 10:10 and then we will
13 continue our meeting. Stand adjourned until 10:10.
14 (A short break was taken.)
15 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: We will now
16 resume our meeting. We'll go back into session.
17 Our public comment being over. Are there any other
18 comments on the public comments?
19 During the break a couple of folks had a
20 couple of questions and I wanted to allow people to
21 make their comments prior to moving on to procedural
22 matters.
23 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Mr. Chairman, I
24 think you were going to address the composition of
25 the rate commission and respond to the
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1 representative nature of the commission I believe.
2 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes. Thank you,
3 Mr. Goss.
4 Ms. Myers or Ms. Stump, do you have a
5 list of the agencies who have appointed people to
6 the rate commission.
7 MS. MYERS: I think it's in the rate
8 proposal.
9 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: I'd like for you
10 to bring up -- Mr. Malone, do you have those?
11 MR. MALONE: Yes. I believe --
12 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Would you,
13 please, remind us all all the agencies who we have
14 reached out to to appoint people to the rate
15 commission?
16 MR. MALONE: Sure, Mr. Chairman. The
17 2018 rate commission is composed of delegates from
18 the following organizations: The Associated General
19 Contractors, the St. Louis County Municipal League,
20 Lutheran Senior Services, St. Louis Council of
21 Construction Consumers, Greater St. Louis Labor
22 Council, Missouri Botanical Garden, the League of
23 Women Voters of Metro St. Louis, the Home Builders
24 Association, the Mound City Bar Association, North
25 County Incorporated, the Missouri Coalition for the
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1 Environment, the City of Ladue, the Engineers' Club
2 of St. Louis, the Missouri Industrial Energy
3 Consumers, and Education Plus.
4 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you.
5 And, Mr. Hoelscher, were there other
6 organizations who applied to be on the rate
7 commission? Because, as I understand it, each year
8 when there are openings on the rate commission,
9 anyone or any agency in the region can apply and ask
10 to have a representative on the rate commission,
11 that it's an open selection process. Am I correct?
12 MR. HOELSCHER: Yeah. There is a public
13 solicitation through a lot of different media
14 sources. In the past for the positions that are
15 available, and I won't go through the staging, but
16 for the 15 positions we'll have anywhere from 18 or
17 19 to 15 different organizations proposed for those
18 15 spots. A lot of it has to do with the timing and
19 who's coming off. In this particular case for this
20 last selection, we actually had 15. We had the
21 exact number to fill those spots. So, this year
22 there were not any others who had expressed a desire
23 to participate.
24 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you. I
25 think it's important that -- and as we were talking
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1 about during the break, it is imperative to everyone
2 on the rate commission and certainly imperative to
3 the district that this commission is as
4 representative of the region and of all members and
5 people in the region as we can possibly make.
6 MR. HOELSCHER: I will just add,
7 Mr. Chairman. Matter of fact, it is a charter
8 requirement that the board takes very seriously in
9 selecting those organizations.
10 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you,
11 Mr. Hoelscher.
12 Is there someone on the telephone? I
13 guess not.
14 There was another question that was
15 discussed and this is maybe before we go on in the
16 procedural matters. Well, we'll hold that till we
17 get to the questions of the rate commissioners.
18 Are there any procedural matters at this
19 point?
20 MS. STUMP: Mr. Chairman.
21 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, Ms. Stump.
22 MS. STUMP: Yes. After the last
23 meeting, several of the commissioners had asked that
24 the district provide an update on the consent
25 decree, and I understand that Mr. Hoelscher is
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1 prepared to do so at this time.
2 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, I am.
3 That's what I get for trying to follow
4 along. So, I'm going to do exactly what a presenter
5 should not do.
6 You all have a one page chart in front
7 of you that I'm going to refer to later. I would
8 ask that you not pay attention to that as I discuss
9 the preamble to using this chart. So, I know that's
10 exactly backwards of the way I was trained, but I
11 trust we can get there.
12 We were asked to give an update on the
13 last consent decree amendment that MSD had proposed
14 to EPA and the Department of Justice. By
15 circumstance, within the last week that amendment
16 was actually approved by the federal judge and is
17 currently in place. Procedurally we do have to have
18 an adjustment of our long-term control plan, which
19 is part of the consent decree with the State of
20 Missouri, but we've had pre-discussions. We're in
21 the process of doing that. We don't see that being
22 a problem with the changes. So, I'm going to give
23 you as much as I can right now and let you know in
24 the future what additional information you'll get on
25 the impact of that.
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1 So, I want to, first of all, go over
2 just what MSD's considerations were during the
3 negotiation of the consent decree and that's going
4 to be important to understand the context. When we
5 were negotiating our consent decree, there were two
6 classes of expenditures that we had to keep in mind.
7 One, were those expenditures required to meet the
8 consent decree? There were also a significant
9 number of expenditures that were not part of the
10 consent decree. Operation and maintenance.
11 Treatment plants in most consent decrees are a large
12 part of the consent decree. MSD did not have a
13 major component regarding treatment plants. Another
14 one of those had to do with the solids handling
15 facilities at MSD. These are things that are not in
16 the consent decree. And that's the collection and
17 treatment and disposal of what we call biosolids and
18 I think what everybody else may think of as sludge.
19 At Bissell treatment plant and at Lemay
20 treatment plant we use a final stage of incineration
21 to incinerate the sludge and then dispose of the ash
22 through landfill. When we went through the consent
23 decree, we knew for operational purposes that those
24 incinerators, that sludge handling facilities at
25 Lemay and Bissell treatment plant were starting to
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1 reach end of life. They were original to the
2 original plants that went in place in the 70s and
3 80s. We had originally scheduled that project to
4 start, general numbers here, in 2026 at a cost of
5 about $360 million. That was in our financial plan.
6 It's not something that the EPA or Department of
7 Justice saw, but it's something that we knew as a
8 future expenditure that we had to consider with
9 regard to affordability to our future rates.
10 The current system met and still meets
11 current regulatory standards for the incinerators
12 that we have in place, but after we signed the
13 consent decree there was a -- thank you. There was
14 a change in regulations. Our sewer sludge
15 incinerators were not falling under a specific part
16 of federal legislation when we signed the consent
17 decree. They did after we signed the consent
18 decree, and that change that was significant to us
19 was not that we change technologies or rehab or
20 replace the units when we felt it was necessary, but
21 additional requirement was put in place that once,
22 for our particular incinerators, once we did repairs
23 totaling at least 50 percent of the cost of the
24 original installation cost of the facilities, we had
25 to replace the incinerators with new technology. It
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1 was a new provision that we fell -- that fell
2 under -- that we hit.
3 So, when we first evaluated that after
4 we signed the consent decree, the feeling was that
5 we probably could still maintain our schedule of
6 starting that $360 expenditure in 2026, that we be
7 able to operate and maintain the incinerator
8 facilities as they were. Now, understand when this
9 rule went into place, MSD was very close to having
10 already spent 50 percent on repair costs on those
11 incinerators.
12 Practically couple years after we took a
13 look at this, it became apparent that we could not
14 wait till 2026 to replace the incinerators. We
15 believe that we now need to start those incinerators
16 in 2021 at a cost of $360 million. So, if you think
17 what our overall financial evaluation would be,
18 we've now moved a $360 expenditure up five years.
19 As I said, the solids handling
20 facilities were not part of the consent decree, but
21 we did have a condition in the consent decree that
22 if there were regulatory changes after we signed it
23 that would impact MSD, that gave us the right and
24 the opening to go to EPA and Department of Justice
25 and request an amendment to the consent decree to
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1 address those changes. And I will tell you not just
2 that change, but also the obvious impact, potential
3 impact on rates and affordability were a
4 consideration which EPA, Department of Justice, and
5 the Coalition for the Environment also recognized
6 that were an issue at hand.
7 So, as I mention, MSD went through the
8 process of getting that change approved. It has
9 been approved. It wasn't just the moving up of the
10 incineration project from 2026 to 2021, but it
11 included the delaying of some other part -- other
12 projects that were in the consent decree.
13 So, what I'm going to do now is now I
14 would like you to take a look at the chart. I want
15 to give you just a practical explanation of what
16 changes at a very high level were coming out of
17 MSD's capital program associated with the consent
18 decree.
19 If you take a look at the chart, these
20 are the lists of the CSO control activities. It's
21 the combined sewer overflow component of our consent
22 decree to address overflows in the combined sewer
23 areas. Under the River Des Peres storage tunnel,
24 the second through fifth lines you see arrows that
25 go from 16 years to 29 years, somewhere in that
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1 area. Those four projects we proposed delaying
2 approximately five years, the start of those. What
3 you end up doing is instead of those tunnels
4 starting in 2021, they now start somewhere around
5 2026. I'm being very general here, but the idea was
6 to move things back so that we could afford the
7 incinerator project.
8 If you look under the River Des Peres
9 tributaries tunnel, that's the second blue area,
10 there's three construction projects that are in the
11 out-years. Same way there. Those were moved back
12 approximately five years for affordability reasons.
13 And then the upper River Des Peres
14 tunnel, storage tunnel. Those also were moved back
15 approximately five years. So, the consequences of
16 moving things back approximately five years also
17 extended the consent decree five years.
18 So, you will find MSD saying that now
19 instead of a final completion date of approximately
20 23 years for our consent decree, we now have a
21 completion date of approximately 28 years from the
22 date we started the consent decree.
23 One other item I would like to note, if
24 you look under the fourth blue block that says River
25 Des Peres CSO controls, you see a line that starts
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1 in the middle of the six- to ten-year block and goes
2 to the end. One of the other items we proposed in
3 the consent decree change was to put a green
4 infrastructure program into the discharges that go
5 into River Des Peres similar to the $100 million
6 program that we're doing in the Bissell watershed.
7 This is the green infrastructure program and rain
8 guards that you see going, going in place. It
9 serves a slightly different purpose in the Bissell
10 watershed. Our $100 million program in the original
11 consent decree actually was in lieu of about a
12 $2 billion gray infrastructure, took care of all of
13 our discharge issues out of the combined sewer
14 system. This $20 million has a slightly different
15 purpose. The most immediate benefit we're looking
16 at is we know we will further enhance the retarding
17 of CSO volumes into River Des Peres by building this
18 green infrastructure. Simply holding stormwater
19 back so there's less overflow volume. As is
20 possible, we also, if we can identify them, reduce
21 the cost of gray infrastructure that's already
22 planned. So, this isn't replacing gray
23 infrastructure. It might have a benefit, but its
24 primary use is to further reduce the volume of CSO
25 overflows. For a lot of reasons it was an important
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1 component of the program we put in place that I
2 believe result in all parties involved agreeing with
3 this program.
4 So, the formal -- the practical results
5 as much as I can give you on the cost side, we are
6 going to be presenting a wastewater rate proposal to
7 the rate commission. Right now we're scheduled to
8 do that in February 2019 for our rates from 2021
9 through 2024. It will be as soon as we're done with
10 this stormwater proposal.
11 Back on the last wastewater proposal, if
12 those who were on the committee at the time recall,
13 we were projecting and this is currently set that
14 the average customer in 2020 would be paying $60 per
15 month for wastewater service, and we were projecting
16 with no change and based on the current parameters
17 that with a reasonable borrowing of money in the
18 program that by 2024 the cost for the average MSD
19 customer for wastewater would go to $90. That is a
20 formal document that we submitted at the last
21 wastewater proceedings.
22 We have been analyzing, as we always do,
23 continuously in the program. Some things have
24 happened since you've seen that document. One is
25 this change, which will have a significant positive
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1 impact on rates. MSD has been able to reduce its
2 operation and maintenance costs through a cost
3 savings initiative as beyond those that we
4 originally anticipated in the wastewater proposal
5 for 2017 through 2020. We continue to be able to
6 complete the capital improvement program at a
7 reduced cost compared to estimates. And also I will
8 tell you our finance team has done a great job of
9 really reducing the amount of finance costs for us
10 to be able to do this program.
11 So, you add all four of those together
12 and the result is an answer to what detail I'm sure
13 Mr. Stein will find not completely satisfying, but I
14 will give you everything I possibly can. So, again,
15 the projection was that we go to $90 per month by
16 2024. That's about 50 percent increase over four
17 years.
18 One of the statements that is in the
19 ruling by the judge is that with this change we will
20 definitely be able to keep all increases in the
21 single digits. And I am hopeful, but I won't know
22 and you won't know until we submit the rate
23 proposal, we're hopeful that for the next four-year
24 period the rate increases can be left put in the low
25 single digits for the next four years.
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1 So, instead of having -- if you do the
2 average, instead of the proposal where we thought
3 this was going to go at 50 percent over the next
4 four years, which without doing the math, is about
5 12 1/2 percent per year, if I'm getting that right.
6 We're talking about we might be able to get, for
7 instance, as low as a 20 percent increase over the
8 next four years, which would be something under
9 5 percent per year. I don't have all the details.
10 The details and any kind of commit we're going to
11 make to you, that's going to come later. We're
12 right now on the process of getting started with
13 preparing wastewater proposal. You will see a full
14 detail of what we propose through '21 through '24.
15 You will see the savings that result in '21 through
16 '24, plus the projected savings in rates beyond
17 2024. We plan on submitting that and we suspect it
18 will be a big part of the presentation to help,
19 again, explain the detailed changes when we on
20 schedule present a wastewater proposal to you in
21 February 2019.
22 Mr. Chairman, that's the information I
23 have available.
24 Oh, yeah. I guess -- I'm sorry. You're
25 right. One other thing. The actual amendment, the
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1 document that the judge submitted and signed off on,
2 it is listed as Exhibit 66. I think I said that at
3 the beginning. If you want to actually read the
4 legal technical document, it is Exhibit 66 in these
5 proceedings.
6 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you,
7 Mr. Hoelscher.
8 Questions or comments?
9 Mr. Mahfood.
10 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Brian, in this
11 entire process, you know, kind of kept up with it
12 being part of the review process in the Coalition
13 for the Environment, approving the consent decree
14 change that you, that you proposed, which I think
15 rests on its merits and it's the right thing to do.
16 Questions have come up about shifting of resources,
17 and I'm sure you've heard this already. There's a
18 fear by some folks that complete projects in the
19 southern part of the district were taking away from
20 work in northern part of the district, and it may
21 have to do with people's perceptions, which you kind
22 of addressed between Bissell and the Lemay projects,
23 but there's a sense that we're going to be shifting
24 resources that might not have come out earlier in
25 the consent decree. Can you address that for me the
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1 best you can?
2 MR. HOELSCHER: Yeah, and I think in the
3 context what we talked about. One, you need to
4 remember this is a wastewater rate, and for a lot of
5 individuals it is sometimes difficult -- for some of
6 the staff sometimes it's difficult to differentiate
7 between wastewater and stormwater. For instance, I
8 think what was mentioned as an example is a lot of
9 the work we're doing in the north city of St. Louis
10 helping to demo buildings, helping to move people
11 out of flooded areas and that type of work. While
12 it may seem like a stormwater activity on the
13 surface, it's actually a wastewater activity to
14 prevent stormwater from getting in the system.
15 So, that being said, if you take a look
16 at the chart, you see the major change being the
17 movement of the tunneling work that we're doing.
18 Tunnels cause disruption and while it's very, very
19 important, there's very few people in their
20 day-to-day lives who are impacted by increased CSO
21 volumes. It is a water quality issue. It is
22 important. It does have to do with the ultimate
23 water quality in the River Des Peres and the
24 Mississippi River, but it isn't an issue having to
25 do with erosion in folk's backyards or basement
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1 backups or any of those things. These changes won't
2 impact those type of day-to-day impacts that most of
3 our folks see.
4 On the positive side, on the
5 incineration there is, obviously, the incineration
6 has a discharge and while we are meeting current
7 regulations, this change over five years in advance
8 of the incinerators will result -- is this the topic
9 you want me to get to as well?
10 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Yeah.
11 MR. HOELSCHER: So, the permit changes
12 result in about a ten times reduction in the
13 discharges coming out of the systems by permit and
14 then actual operation about 400 to 500 or four to
15 five times reduction in the actual pollutants that
16 discharge from the incinerators from where they're
17 at now.
18 So, I would say practically individuals
19 will not notice in their day-to-day lives a change
20 in service levels going down. Those folks who are
21 concerned or worried about the -- even though we're
22 meeting permit, the level of discharges that come
23 from the incinerators, and these are two
24 incinerators. One's in downtown St. Louis off of
25 Bissell -- off of Grand, and the other one's just at
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1 the very south end of the city next to the River
2 City Casino. That's where these two incinerators
3 are. They will see a significant change in air
4 quality coming out of the incinerators.
5 Again, just to summate, there isn't
6 anything in this change that our regular customers
7 on a day-to-day will see something being delayed
8 that would benefit their day-to-day lives, and I
9 think that's the best way I can state it.
10 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Can I follow up?
11 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Please.
12 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Brian, that's
13 great, because I wanted to get that out and get
14 everybody informed.
15 I think the other issue that I'm -- that
16 I have been hearing more has to do with community
17 work and probably green infrastructure type projects
18 that are going on that -- I can't give you any
19 detail. In some ways I'm letting you know that
20 there are folks out there that don't know any better
21 and we're trying to explain better to them what
22 these changes are in the consent decree and how
23 they'll benefit the St. Louis area, but there's a
24 fear by people that work in the community and
25 especially piggybacking and working on the green
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1 infrastructure projects we have in place that those
2 projects would be shifted from the north side to the
3 south side by this change in the consent decree,
4 that emphasis will change. So, there's that fear.
5 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. So, let me convey
6 that one specifically. There will be no negative
7 impact on the current green infrastructure or city
8 shed work that's going on now within the combined
9 area. A lot of it focused in the north part of the
10 city.
11 What you will see on a positive side,
12 especially for those who are interested in green
13 infrastructure, is the addition of $20 million of
14 additional green infrastructure to the River Des
15 Peres watershed that did not exist before in order
16 for us to be able to make this change. We are able
17 legally to really start addressing that through,
18 you'll see the same thing, grant programs, district
19 projects. That initiative will start as soon as we
20 get a formal approval from Missouri Department of
21 Natural Resources of our long-term control plan
22 change, which is part of the consent decree change.
23 So, if you're a green infrastructure
24 buff, this is nothing but a plus.
25 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any further
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1 questions?
2 Yes, Mr. Stein.
3 MR. HOELSCHER: Oh, no.
4 COMMISSIONER STEIN: You knew you
5 weren't going to get away that easy.
6 MR. HOELSCHER: No.
7 COMMISSIONER STEIN: Brian, this is just
8 an engineering question. With respect to the
9 incinerators, are you looking at replacing them,
10 retrofitting them, or going with an entirely new
11 technology?
12 MR. HOELSCHER: So, since this is public
13 or will be soon, I'll make it public. What it
14 requires, for those who are technical, we currently
15 have a multiple hearth incineration system at both
16 locations. We will go to fluidized-bed
17 incinerators. One at Bissell. One at Lemay.
18 Similar to what we do now. The only difference will
19 be the discharges will be much cleaner from those
20 stacks. And I guess one more technical step
21 forward, our plan is to do it as a design-build
22 project as opposed to a design-bid-build project.
23 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any further
24 questions about that particular issue?
25 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Mr. Chairman.
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1 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, Mr. Goss.
2 COMMISSIONER GOSS: I just want to
3 clarify. The exhibit that you gave us, that's the
4 new proposed schedule, right?
5 MR. HOELSCHER: That's the new proposed
6 schedule that will go to the state as a proposed --
7 we will be entering it as an exhibit as well. It's
8 going to the state as part of the proposed long-term
9 control plan change.
10 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Thank you.
11 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Mr. Schoedel.
12 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: In our last
13 discussion that we had there was concern about how
14 the next rate increase might impact our discussion
15 on the current stormwater rate increase. What you
16 just shared, it appears that that will extend out
17 the work and the benefit to the ratepayers. Is that
18 a true statement?
19 MR. HOELSCHER: That's true. We're
20 talking about, easy way to think of it, $4.7 billion
21 in 2010 dollars. We've added $20 million to that,
22 but do the same work. Instead of 23 years, we now
23 have 28 years. So, that can do nothing but help
24 bring rates lower.
25 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you. Then
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1 the other question related somewhat to our public
2 hearing today. The perception that north St. Louis,
3 specifically Ferguson today, does not get the
4 attention that south St. Louis might get. Some of
5 these changes help that work within north county
6 versus south county because it seems like some of
7 these projects that you're delaying are related more
8 to south county; is that correct?
9 MR. HOELSCHER: So, with regard to the
10 rate, the rate what I've just presented here on the
11 consent decree change, that has no impact on that
12 issue. As far as what work gets done in north
13 county, I think you've seen the maps, I would put to
14 you the $67 million package. It is district-wide.
15 In our minds we are giving as much attention to
16 everybody throughout the district regardless of
17 where they're located. This change will have no
18 impact on any of the issues that were brought up
19 today.
20 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: With the
21 projects that would be potentially prioritized, if
22 we approve this and if the voters approve this, the
23 current projects priority, are those -- I haven't
24 had a chance to review that. Are they well
25 distributed through the overall district, including
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1 north county versus south county?
2 MR. HOELSCHER: In general, yes. The
3 $67 million map, and I'm just referring to it
4 because it's what's out in public, that's somewhat
5 representative of the distribution you'll see on
6 future ongoing programs.
7 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Okay.
8 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any further
9 questions concerning this change in the consent
10 decree?
11 Thank you, Mr. Hoelscher. Thank you for
12 the update.
13 MR. HOELSCHER: Thank you.
14 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any other
15 procedural or evidentiary aspects of the public
16 hearing that we need to get into right now?
17 MS. MYERS: I have one item.
18 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, Ms. Myers.
19 MS. MYERS: The exhibit that Brian just
20 spoke to -- the exhibit that Brian just spoke to, we
21 ask that that be entered into the record. It's
22 Exhibit MSD 73.
23 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: That being Figure
24 1, the LTCP program implementation schedule?
25 MS. MYERS: Yes.
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1 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you.
2 All right. We will move forward then.
3 Who is here on behalf of --
4 MS. STUMP: I'm sorry.
5 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, Ms. Stump.
6 Please.
7 MS. STUMP: I didn't know where you were
8 going on the script. So, that's why.
9 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Unfortunately,
10 I'm following it.
11 MS. STUMP: Can we go back to submit the
12 whole list of the exhibits?
13 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, we may.
14 MS. STUMP: On June 27th -- oh, you want
15 me to just go ahead?
16 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Starting on the
17 top of the page.
18 MS. STUMP: On June 27th the district
19 transmitted a proposed list of exhibits to the
20 participants.
21 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: You're jumping a
22 page ahead, but I'm happy to do that. I'm fine now.
23 All right.
24 I was -- hang on one second.
25 MS. STUMP: See, I had figured you just
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1 skipped the introductions earlier because you went
2 to the procedural matters.
3 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: I didn't skip
4 anything.
5 On June 27th, 2018, the district --
6 actually, let's just say the district transmitted a
7 proposed list of exhibits to the participants. Is
8 the district prepared to present that list to the
9 members of the rate commission?
10 MS. MYERS: Yes, we are, with the
11 inclusion of Exhibit 73 that we just spoke about.
12 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you.
13 Does any other participant wish to add
14 any additional exhibits?
15 MS. STUMP: Mr. Chair, could we, please,
16 add the letter that was submitted today from the
17 ratepayer from Ferguson?
18 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Ferguson.
19 MS. STUMP: I don't know if maybe
20 Ms. Benton can go ahead and give it a number.
21 MS. BENTON: It will be RC 74.
22 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: RC 74.
23 Are there any other additional exhibits
24 to add?
25 MS. MYERS: So, that updated exhibit
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1 list will be posted this afternoon after this
2 meeting.
3 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you,
4 Ms. Myers.
5 So, all the documents identified on the
6 exhibit list are now admitted into evidence in this
7 rate change proceeding.
8 The district, the intervenor, and legal
9 counsel to the rate commission shall each present
10 closing statements. After each closing statement,
11 the members of the rate commission will have the
12 opportunity to ask questions.
13 Ms. Myers, are you ready to present on
14 behalf of the district the closing statement.
15 MS. MYERS: I am. Thank you.
16 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Please proceed.
17 MS. MYERS: Good morning, commission.
18 As you're all aware, I'm Susan Myers. I'm the MSD
19 general counsel. On behalf of the district, I'd
20 like to thank each and every one of you for
21 participating in this rate setting process.
22 As we discussed at the beginning of this
23 process, the task before you is to determine if the
24 district's rate change proposal submitted on
25 February 26th, 2018, complies with the five criteria
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1 outlined in the MSD charter, specifically if the
2 rate proposal is fair and reasonable on all classes
3 of ratepayers.
4 As you have heard throughout these
5 proceedings, this proposal is for an impervious area
6 based stormwater capital rate to fund capital
7 improvements needed primarily to mitigate flooding
8 and erosion throughout the district. This proposal
9 is based upon the wants and the needs of our
10 customers.
11 Upon acceptance by the MSD board of
12 trustees, the stormwater capital rate will be taken
13 to the public for a vote. The public will decide if
14 they want MSD to have a revenue source to fund
15 additional district-wide stormwater services in the
16 form of capital improvements to mitigate the impact
17 of flooding and erosion.
18 The record that has been built over the
19 last few months contains a lot of testimony and
20 evidence from both the district and your own
21 technical experts that support the fact that the
22 district's proposal is fair and reasonable on all
23 classes of ratepayers.
24 So, I'm not going to rehash all the
25 topics that we have discussed throughout the
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1 technical conferences and again at the prehearing
2 conference. You can find all those details in the
3 prehearing conference reports submitted by all the
4 parties.
5 I would like to ask you to remember a
6 few things as you proceed with deliberation. The
7 current rate proposal before you proposes a new
8 stormwater capital rate to be used to address
9 flooding and erosion control issues throughout the
10 district. This is the final piece of the three
11 piece stormwater funding puzzle. MSD already
12 collects a 2-cent property tax to address regulatory
13 needs and a 10-cent property tax to address the
14 operation and maintenance of the MSD public storm
15 sewer infrastructure.
16 The MSD charter does not require a rate
17 structure to be the most fair and reasonable rate
18 structure. What it does require is that the rate
19 structure being used be fair and reasonable on all
20 classes of ratepayers. I'd like to expand on that
21 just a little bit. Of course, there are a lot of
22 different methods of developing a rate structure.
23 You've heard the communities around the county
24 develop and modify structures to work best for them.
25 The proposal before you is just that. MSD has
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1 developed a CIRP program that works for its
2 particular circumstances and is consistent with
3 industry standards. With funding this program can
4 meet the needs of our customers.
5 It is MSD's opinion that the rate
6 proposal is legal and a detailed legal analysis to
7 support our opinion has been provided on the record.
8 It is also the district's opinion that the record
9 created from the rate commission proceeding supports
10 the fact that this proposal before you meets all the
11 criteria outlined in the charter and does impose a
12 fair and reasonable burden on all classes of
13 ratepayers.
14 So, again, I would like to thank you for
15 your time and your dedication to this process. I
16 know it's probably more than what some of you had
17 expected, but we really do appreciate it. And this
18 concludes my opening remarks. Thank you.
19 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Questions from
20 the rate commissioners for Ms. Myers. Any questions
21 for MSD or the staff.
22 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: I have several
23 questions. What is the average MSD bill for a
24 ratepayer excluding water usage?
25 MR. HOELSCHER: Excluding wastewater
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1 usage?
2 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: No.
3 Excluding -- most of our -- some of our bills like
4 in the county, you add on a charge for water usage
5 to your MSD bill, correct?
6 MR. HOELSCHER: No. We have a charge
7 for wastewater usage.
8 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Overall MSD
9 bill, the monthly bill that each customer gets,
10 what's the average bill in municipality?
11 MR. HOELSCHER: I can give you a general
12 number. It's right now about $48 per customer. It
13 goes up to -- as previously approved, about 50 -- am
14 I getting this wrong? Yeah, this is 2020. So, that
15 would be summer '18.
16 So, right now it's about $48 per
17 customer. These are previously approved amounts.
18 In August it will jump to $54 per customer, and then
19 next summer it goes to -- as the final amount that
20 was approved by this rate commission, it goes to
21 about $60 per customer, and based on that 2020
22 amount the actual impact comparatively is on page
23 3-4 of our rate proposal for comparison purposes.
24 And it shows as of fiscal 2020 we project the MSD
25 customer average rate will be $66.75 with $6.31 of
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1 that being stormwater.
2 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Without going
3 through all kinds of charts that you just
4 referenced, which is great, we've heard testimony
5 earlier about a monthly bill. Several of us here
6 talked amongst ourselves about what our monthly
7 bills are. There's no comparison between the two
8 numbers. So, what causes the variation between
9 customers with MSD.
10 MR. HOELSCHER: So, if you are not
11 served as a residential customer by the City of
12 St. Louis, you're served by Missouri-American or
13 Kirkwood Water and I think I've named the two that
14 provide service, your bill is based on your average
15 winter usage. We're trying to identify the average
16 amount of potable water that goes down the sewer
17 system. We don't want to count washing cars. We
18 don't want to count filling swimming pools. We
19 don't want to count watering yards. So, MSD will
20 take a winter quarter reading from those who have
21 metered service and we will apply that charge
22 starting in August, the following August, and we'll
23 charge that consistent rate for a full year for the
24 average residential customer.
25 If you are serviced by the City of
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1 St. Louis and you do not have a meter as a
2 residential customer, which constitutes most of the
3 residential customers in the City of St. Louis,
4 their potable water measurement is done by
5 attribute. They assume that a certain -- a bedroom
6 generates a certain amount of flow and a kitchen a
7 certain amount of flow and a dining room a certain
8 amount of flow. These are attributes used to
9 develop the city water bill. MSD uses that data in
10 order to generate its cost for the individuals who
11 are located in the City of St. Louis.
12 There are individual residents who have
13 the option of putting a -- all of them have the
14 option of actually having their service metered.
15 There's a lot of issues with that, as I understand
16 from the city, having to do with additional plumbing
17 changes and those types of things that have to be
18 made.
19 But in essence in both cases we're using
20 what potable water data is available from the
21 individual water providers as the basis for our
22 charge. So, that's -- and so, as things -- as
23 either rate changes or if you are being serviced by
24 Missouri-American or Kirkwood, as your winter water
25 usage changes that will change the total volume and,
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1 obviously, any rate changes would have an impact on
2 that as well.
3 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: So, Brian, you
4 mentioned that the city is determined on attributes.
5 When was this process last evaluated as far as
6 updated or accuracy or...?
7 MR. HOELSCHER: We reevaluate -- I'm
8 going to answer part and then I'm going to turn the
9 other part over to Susan Myers.
10 So, I won't turn this over to Ms. Myers.
11 I will give you -- that evaluation, we actually
12 redid that as part of the previous wastewater rate
13 proposal. We took the volumes that we were
14 assigning. I'm getting a little technical here.
15 The city actually assigns a dollar cost to
16 individual attributes. MSD assigns a flow cost to
17 individual attributes. We review those as a part of
18 the last wastewater proposal and I think as we
19 indicated, it resulted in the city residential
20 customers having, prior to a rate increase, a
21 10 percent reduction in their bill and then we went
22 for -- and after that we went forward with the rate
23 increases that were approved from 2017 through 2020.
24 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Okay.
25 Switching to another subject. Do you have a list
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1 that you're aware of of how many municipalities have
2 implemented the parks and stormwater tax?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: We don't have that
4 information.
5 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: And is that tax
6 only allowed by a certain class of the city, or is
7 it unincorporated areas can do the same or they
8 don't have that ability to do that?
9 MR. HOELSCHER: So, whether there's a
10 difference in the class of city, I'm not sure. My
11 understanding is I think just about all
12 municipalities are able to do it. And as far as the
13 unincorporated area, that would be covered by
14 St. Louis County. So, my understanding, not knowing
15 for sure, is I think every municipal entity within
16 the district's boundaries have the right to raise
17 its parks and stormwater tax.
18 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Just for my
19 information, maybe for your own, we probably ought
20 to know that in the future, how many municipalities
21 have that capability, what the dollar amount might
22 be, and then as you and I discussed offline, they're
23 not obligated to spend a certain percentage of that
24 on stormwater or parks. I suspect that more are
25 spending it on parks than stormwater.
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: That's what we have
2 heard from the individual municipalities, yes.
3 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: But there's no
4 assemblage of this documentation or information?
5 MR. HOELSCHER: Yeah. The only way we
6 would do that is we would have to poll the
7 individual municipalities to see if they currently
8 collect that or not.
9 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Talking about
10 pervious versus impervious. There was a issue
11 raised about compacted soil, what that value might
12 be. Just from my personal experience, there's a
13 huge difference between pervious versus impervious,
14 and by that I mean certainly a roof, a concrete
15 driveway, asphalt roads, those are impervious
16 surfaces, but when it comes to the pervious surfaces
17 there's a wide range of what in reality is pervious.
18 So, for example, I put in -- I don't
19 know the square footage number, but huge amount of
20 square footage of what the manufacturer would say is
21 a product, it's a aggregate ground up rubber tire
22 and it's a sidewalk and they claim it's a pervious
23 product, the end result is a pervious sidewalk.
24 However, when you lay that down and you put soil
25 right next to it, within a year the soil and the
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1 dirt just goes into that sidewalk. That sidewalk is
2 no more a pervious sidewalk. It's an impervious
3 piece, and the values go back and forth. So, to
4 give credit to somebody for that sidewalk and say
5 it's a pervious sidewalk, it's not a pervious
6 sidewalk at the end of the day. It's an impervious
7 surface.
8 The same with brick pavers. Maybe we're
9 not clear, but brick pavers you're only getting the
10 perviousness between the joints between the pavers.
11 The bricks themselves are not pervious, and it's
12 very easy for the joints between the bricks to
13 become dirty and clogged up and the whole thing
14 becomes an impervious surface, but yet you're going
15 to give credit for those sorts of applications where
16 a brick paver are allowed to be impervious -- I
17 mean, pervious. It's easy to get the terms mixed
18 up.
19 The same for pavements and driveways.
20 What my experience has been, I have put in asphalt
21 that's a pervious pavement asphalt, but you have to
22 be careful because if you have adjoining impervious
23 assault, the surface water runs off of that to the
24 pervious asphalt, it gets clogged up right away.
25 So, you lost that effectiveness right away.
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1 So, how are you going to balance all of
2 this in your evaluations?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: So, I think our proposal
4 indicates that on a regular basis we will go by
5 aerial photography. We will make a determination on
6 what we can determine by aerial photography and then
7 if an individual resident believes that we have
8 miscalculated or mischaracterized some of their
9 area, they can ask us to come out and see. And the
10 typical example has been we'll go out and ten years
11 ago we would take a bucket of water and pour it on
12 and say, hey, where does it go, does it disappear,
13 does it run off as a simple test.
14 I think you're bringing up, it's touched
15 in the rest of this proposal, what is the right way
16 for an entity to do this. I would put to you type
17 of grass, tree cover, slope the ground. There's all
18 kinds of things that affect imperviousness of an
19 area. I think as part of the discussion here is
20 finding the right place that is fair and equitable
21 and reasonable to use as the basis of your charge.
22 I think we all agree you don't want MSD to collect
23 $2.25 a month to do the program and spend $2 a month
24 monitoring the parameters with which you're
25 collecting this. That just doesn't make any sense.
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1 What MSD has done is looking both at its
2 particular situation and all the other possible
3 options that are available and what we're trying to
4 accomplish. Basically, what I've described is that
5 is the degree to which we will do impervious
6 calculation versus pervious calculation. We think
7 that's the right type, it's the right level of
8 detail, that that is fair and reasonable to our
9 customers.
10 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Okay.
11 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Ms. Stump, you
12 had a comment earlier concerning the local parks.
13 MS. STUMP: Oh, I was just going to note
14 that I believe the statute does apply to all cities,
15 and we could -- I mean, we're closing -- if we close
16 the public hearing today, we will not be able to
17 submit more evidence, but we could certainly send an
18 email to the rate commission with information that
19 at least you would have as background. It just
20 wouldn't be a part of the proceeding. But the other
21 option may be to contact, the Municipal League might
22 have an idea as to how many of the municipalities
23 have this tax and we could do that.
24 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Mr. Chairman.
25 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes.
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1 COMMISSIONER GOSS: I just sent to you a
2 chronological history of local sales tax in
3 St. Louis County, which was prepared by Tim
4 Fischesser, executive director of St. Louis County
5 Municipal League, dated November of 2011, and in
6 that paper he noted there are 49 municipalities in
7 St. Louis County that had adopted the storm water
8 tax. So, obviously, Municipal League is a source of
9 that information. I don't know if we can enter that
10 article into the record or not, but, Ms. Stump, you
11 could -- and whether it's useful or not I don't
12 know, but that certainly is a source of information.
13 MS. STUMP: I mean, can you send it,
14 Brad, to Brian?
15 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Yeah.
16 MS. STUMP: And, Susan and Brandon, do
17 you have those? Or we can forward it on to them and
18 maybe we can just all take a quick look and if no
19 one has an objection, we could add it as an exhibit.
20 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Clarification.
21 Is that a stormwater and parks tax or just a
22 stormwater tax?
23 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Well, the statute
24 provides it as a stormwater and parks tax. That's
25 the way the statute reads. So, when they adopt it,
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1 they always adopt it that way.
2 MS. STUMP: So, before we finish today,
3 perhaps we can all take a quick look at it and then
4 if we don't have an objection, we could have the
5 district assign it a number and submit it.
6 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Mr. Goss, thank
7 you very much. I'm looking at it right now and I
8 think that it would be worthwhile for us to have it.
9 COMMISSIONER GOSS: And, Mr. Chairman,
10 if you could do the forwarding, that would be
11 helpful because the emails aren't coming up in my
12 phone. Thank you.
13 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Ms. Stump, I'll
14 send it to you.
15 MS. STUMP: Perfect.
16 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: You should have
17 it.
18 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: I've got one
19 more question.
20 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Mr. Brockmann and
21 then Mr. Schoedel.
22 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Brian, you've
23 been very adamant all along about the fairness of
24 the projects are considered district-wide, but today
25 we heard a suggestion about maybe the priorities
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1 ought to be on watersheds. Can you respond to that,
2 please?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: This is somewhat similar
4 to a topic that was kind of thought about a little
5 bit I think in previous stormwater and wastewater
6 hearing. MSD does consist of watersheds. I will
7 start with the first watershed as our entire
8 district is in the Mississippi watershed. There are
9 below that five other watersheds, which are also
10 divided by watersheds. MSD has taken the approach
11 that within our municipal boundaries, just like any
12 other folks with municipal boundaries, we're
13 providing a service to everyone. And I don't see a
14 place where MSD is going to try and put one entity,
15 whether it's municipalities, sub-watershed, other
16 watershed, differentiate where it does its
17 expenditures. We weren't going to do that under the
18 stormwater impervious rate. We definitely have not
19 done that under the wastewater program, whether it's
20 CD compliant or not CD compliance issues, and MSD
21 believes that the appropriate thing to do is to use
22 the systems we have described in this proposal and
23 we will go down the list and we will provide the
24 ones that are the highest priority throughout our
25 entire district, and we believe that's the
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1 appropriate way to proceed.
2 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Thank you.
3 MR. HOELSCHER: Now, I will indicate --
4 let me do this for a little bit. MSD has worked
5 with entities. Mr. Thomas indicated earlier, for
6 instance, MSD is constantly looking for outside
7 sources of funding. I believe one of the grants he
8 was referring to is probably when the state issued
9 stormwater grant moneys. They haven't done that for
10 over ten years now. They would distribute that
11 money to MSD. MSD would then distribute that money
12 to the local municipalities. I think that was the
13 grant program probably that Mr. Thomas was talking
14 about. So, we'll continue doing that. We'll
15 continue looking for funds.
16 There are areas up in north city we're
17 in cooperation with initiatives they've had. We've
18 actually gone to the state legislature for focused
19 funding on specific issues and supported their
20 cause, and we will continue to do that as well. But
21 with regard to the rates and revenues that we
22 collect district-wide from everybody to solve a
23 district-wide problem, we're considering the
24 priority on a district-wide basis.
25 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Mr. Schoedel.
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1 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: One question,
2 and it's kind of a follow-up for Mr. Brockmann's
3 question. MSD wastewater rates specifically in the
4 city, is there any evidence that shows the addition
5 of that meter will reduce their rates? And this is
6 really in reference to the public hearing earlier
7 today and the one lady who was very emphatic about
8 her high MSD rates.
9 MR. HOELSCHER: So, I have heard -- and
10 this is all just hearing things. There are
11 individuals, retired couples who live in very large
12 houses with an awful lot of rooms that they believe
13 they are paying too much. There are homes, very
14 small homes with a lot of people living in, which if
15 you think about would probably generate huge water
16 usage and they're probably paying something that if
17 they were metered, they would actually pay more than
18 the attribute calculation.
19 Again, we are locked into -- I just
20 don't know another way to do it. We are locked into
21 a court approved way of billing for wastewater in
22 the non-metered areas. Again, the one thing we've
23 done, we do take evaluation about people's habits.
24 Matter of fact, prior to this next wastewater
25 proposal, we'll do the same thing again to find out
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1 if there should be a reduction or an increase in the
2 per attribute cost of the city property owners. You
3 will see that as part of the rate proposal again.
4 We will continue to do that every four years, but we
5 are locked in. I don't know a way to do the system
6 other than that attribute system.
7 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you. I
8 know there was a little bit of rabbit trail on
9 wastewater, but it was brought up earlier.
10 Mr. Chairman, my next question is more
11 about maybe procedural. There's been several
12 discussions about increasing the incentive program.
13 Is that something to be done here or within our
14 session later? With representatives from MSD here,
15 we may need some input from them.
16 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: I would -- I was
17 going to ask Ms. Stump to recap that and present us
18 with the proper way to get that on the record.
19 MS. STUMP: I think -- and for the
20 district, some of the rate commissioners have some
21 thoughts on incentive programs and I was encouraging
22 them not to have a conversation in email about it.
23 So, I think that if you want input from the district
24 and the parties, we should bring that up today. If
25 it's something that you just want to discuss amongst
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1 yourselves, you can wait until you start your
2 deliberations. Regardless, since all of the parties
3 have thoughts on the incentive programs, perhaps it
4 would be worthwhile to finish the closing statements
5 and then at the end there's a spot for any questions
6 and maybe that would be the appropriate time to talk
7 about the incentive program, if you want input from
8 the district or the intervenor.
9 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: My opinion is
10 I'd like to get their input and we can certainly
11 wait till the end.
12 Commissioners, your thoughts? Because
13 there's been a lot of discussion about the incentive
14 program and increasing it, making it more impactful.
15 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: My only comment
16 is that we get it out on the table and, so, whatever
17 the procedure.
18 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: If you're ready
19 to talk about it now, go ahead.
20 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Fire away?
21 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, sir. Yes,
22 Mr. Mahfood, the floor is yours.
23 And I do want to compliment Ms. Stump
24 for acting quickly to make sure that the email
25 discussion that was started was stopped before it
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1 got too far just to make sure that the intervenor
2 and the district was comfortable that there were not
3 any behind-the-scenes type of dialogue going on.
4 So, with that, Mr. Mahfood, the floor is
5 yours.
6 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Thank you,
7 Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of things at this
8 point. I'm still a strong believer in the fact that
9 incentives can change the dynamic in the St. Louis
10 area in regards to how we look at pervious and
11 impervious surfaces, how we plan for development and
12 how we move forward. So, I know we've got a -- I
13 believe that the linkage, the financial linkage
14 between the proposed rate increase and the
15 incentives is a -- has been well explained, and I
16 don't disagree with that the rates we're proposing
17 are low. To be able to have an impact I think your
18 rates would have to be higher and I'm not proposing
19 that.
20 However, I really have a concern, and I
21 think Commissioner Brockmann brought it up, about
22 ongoing incentives, ongoing projects, and how we
23 make sure that the incentives that we're spending
24 money on get done and are maintained, and not just
25 because of its relationship to the -- to the rates,
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1 but also to the reduction in stormwater, which will
2 have a water quality and other impacts in the
3 St. Louis area.
4 And at this point, being enrolled in
5 this incentive in the credit program and the ongoing
6 maintenance, that's a concern to me that we're --
7 that we're not going to be able to do that and,
8 again, I understand why, but commitment of resources
9 to projects that could have an impact on reducing
10 impervious surfaces I think needs to be given a
11 priority and needs to be made sure that we're --
12 that we're carrying out those functions and doing
13 the best that we can regardless of cost in this rate
14 structure.
15 The other part is the possibility of
16 developing a grant program, and maybe this is where
17 shared funding comes in. That wouldn't be done out
18 of the rate we're proposing here, but a shared
19 funding proposal where we're able to give grant
20 programs to private property owners to do the
21 correct thing when it comes to installing pervious
22 versus impervious surfaces. You know, I think that
23 needs to be at a minimum in the record that we're
24 supportive of that kind of work and that we're
25 supportive of enabling private property owners to do
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1 some of the things that we think need to be done
2 that will benefit all of us.
3 I'm not going to go on -- I could go on
4 and on and address this subject, and I know we've
5 kind of beaten it to death in some respects, but I
6 wanted to make sure and get this back out on the
7 table because I think it's an important one for
8 discussion.
9 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you,
10 Mr. Mahfood.
11 Are there any other?
12 Yes, Mr. Goss.
13 COMMISSIONER GOSS: I would echo
14 Mr. Mahfood's comments.
15 And one other thought that I had as we
16 were listening to the dialogue today is if the
17 district is considering the grant program or
18 incentive program involving municipalities, one of
19 the criteria for participating in that program could
20 be that the municipality has passed a parks and
21 stormwater tax, which gives those municipalities an
22 incentive to do so and, thus, would lead to more
23 funds being directed to solve this problem that we
24 do have in our region. So, I suggest that's a
25 possibility for the criteria of such a grant
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1 program.
2 I also have mentioned previously that
3 our organization is hopeful that homeowners
4 associations would be included in any such grant
5 program through an aggregation kind of concept or
6 other concept that allows these individual owner
7 credits to be used by the homeowners association
8 because the individual owners stormwater problems
9 are really being addressed through common stormwater
10 detention basins in the association. I'd like that
11 on the record as well.
12 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: So done. Thank
13 you.
14 Further comments? Mr. Mahfood.
15 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: I like that idea
16 and Commissioner Goss has brought up the concept of
17 tieing together the incentivizing the grant program
18 and the passage of a stormwater and parks ordinance
19 at the local level. I think it could be a real
20 effective tool and not impact this rate, but at the
21 same time complement the activities that the
22 district is doing and, yet, also provide for local
23 communities to address these problems as they -- as
24 they come up.
25 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Further comments?
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1 Any other questions for MSD staff?
2 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Mr. Chairman, I did
3 have one question of Mr. Hoelscher.
4 And Brian, I apologize. I think you
5 covered this many weeks ago in your testimony, but I
6 wanted to clarify on the ERU in the calculation of
7 that square footage, does that include driveways and
8 sidewalks in the calculation of that?
9 MR. HOELSCHER: It would include
10 impervious driveways and sidewalks that were within
11 the property. One designation, I think we're always
12 letting people know if it's in the public
13 right-of-way, it doesn't count. It's what's within
14 the property limits.
15 COMMISSIONER GOSS: And that was my
16 recollection.
17 And then it would also include
18 non-livable spaces of a home such as a garage; is
19 that correct?
20 MR. HOELSCHER: Yeah. Think of this,
21 it's an aerial view. So, it's a footprint of what
22 we see -- what the rain would see as it's coming
23 down. So, yes, it would include rooftops, garage
24 rooftops.
25 COMMISSIONER GOSS: And if the garage
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1 were a detached garage, would it also be included?
2 MR. HOELSCHER: It would be the
3 footprint of the detached garage as you look at the
4 aerial view, yes.
5 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Thank you.
6 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Any further
7 questions for the MSD staff?
8 Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Ms. Myers.
9 Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers,
10 are you ready to present your closing statement,
11 Mr. Neuschafer?
12 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Yes, I am.
13 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Please proceed.
14 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Thank you.
15 And thank you to all the commissioners
16 for your time and your thoughtful consideration of
17 the record and the proposal here.
18 Like Ms. Myers, I'm not going to rehash
19 the things that I told you last week and the things
20 that I told you yesterday and in the papers that we
21 filed, but I do want to clarify a few things from
22 some of the papers that were filed yesterday, some
23 statements made by counsel for the rate commission
24 and by MSD. Excuse me.
25 One thing is that -- the first thing. I
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1 have three things I want to clarify. The first is
2 that MSD commented several times in the report that
3 they filed yesterday. Excuse me. MSD commented
4 that MIEC did not review the binders. There was a
5 group of 50-some binders that MSD has made
6 available, and I want to clarify that MIEC did
7 review these binders. In fact, after the
8 surrebuttal testimony where Ms. Lyons presented her
9 report and responded to questions we requested from
10 the rate commission which binders Ms. Lyons reviewed
11 because we wanted to review the exact same binders
12 that she reviewed. I participated in that review.
13 A representative of our consultant participated in
14 that review. MSD assisted in that review. So, I'm
15 a little surprised at the statements that MIEC did
16 not review the binders because we did receive
17 support from MSD when we reviewed those binders. We
18 looked at the exact same ones that Ms. Lyons
19 indicated that she looked at. It didn't change our
20 testimony at all. In fact, it supported our
21 testimony, our review of those binders.
22 One other thing to note -- and this is
23 all in the paper that we filed yesterday, but I
24 wanted to make it clear to the rate commission, is
25 that when we were reviewing those binders MSD
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1 identified to us that there had actually been some
2 additional analyses on some projects since the
3 binders had been prepared. These are analyses that
4 have been performed at some point in time over the
5 last few years because the binders ended at about
6 2010. We looked at some of those additional updated
7 analyses and we have some reference to some of the
8 information that we discovered in our report that
9 was filed yesterday. I'd note that nowhere in her
10 testimony did Ms. Lyons ever indicate that she
11 became aware of them or reviewed any of these
12 additional analyses, which calls into question her
13 testimony and also calls into question the fairness
14 and reasonableness of the program that's been
15 proposed.
16 Putting aside where and when anyone
17 reviewed the binders, I think it's important to note
18 that our position has been based on MSD's own
19 statements and the record that has been introduced
20 by MSD, the age of the reports, the age of the
21 information that has been introduced into the record
22 and upon which they based their engineering and cost
23 estimates, and their own statements about the amount
24 of time that has gone into preparing those
25 estimates. It's important that we reviewed the
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1 binders. It's important that everyone else has
2 taken a look at those, but it's MSD's own statements
3 that call into question the fairness and
4 reasonableness of the engineering and cost analysis
5 that has supported this program.
6 The second point that I wanted to
7 make -- and these are clarifications of our
8 position. MSD suggested in its paper, at least this
9 is how I read the report, that MIEC opposed the
10 prioritization system that's been created by MSD.
11 I'd like to be clear that we've taken no position
12 about the prioritization system. We're not saying
13 that there's anything wrong with the prioritization
14 system. Yes, we've asked questions because we like
15 to understand the prioritization system ourselves,
16 but our issue is not with how MSD prioritizes the
17 projects or the score card that they use or the
18 factors that go into completing that score card.
19 That's not MIEC's issue.
20 MIEC's issue concerns whether this
21 program should be undertaken in the first instance
22 or whether there is some subset of projects here
23 that are of such low priority that they shouldn't be
24 undertaken. That's MIEC's concern. We'll leave the
25 prioritization score card to others.
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1 The final point that we want to make
2 clear on the record, and this came from the report
3 that was filed by the rate commission and counsel
4 and the rate commission's rate consultant. This is
5 with respect to -- and I apologize. This is kind of
6 a technical legal issue here, but with respect to
7 the authority under Missouri Statute Section
8 204.700. The rate commission counsel's report
9 suggests that MIEC supports MSD's position with
10 respect to this statute. Again, I want to make it
11 clear that we've taken no position with respect to
12 whether MSD is accurately interpreting or applying
13 the law on this circumstance. I don't -- I don't
14 want to leave the record out there suggesting that
15 we have either endorsed or not endorsed MSD's
16 position. We simply have not taken an issue -- or
17 made any opinion with respect to that issue.
18 So, I appreciate you indulging me and
19 letting me clarify a few of the statements that we
20 found needed to be clarified. I think our position
21 has been made very clear with respect to how we view
22 the proposal and that's really all that I have to
23 say at this point in time. I'm happy to answer any
24 questions.
25 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you,
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1 Mr. Neuschafer. Appreciate those clarifications.
2 Anyone have questions for
3 Mr. Neuschafer.
4 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Actually, Mr. Chair.
5 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes.
6 MR. NEUSCHAFER: I'm sorry. There was
7 one more thing that I wanted to mention. This is
8 procedural. I assume that the transcript of today's
9 proceeding will also be included in the official
10 record?
11 MS. STUMP: That is correct.
12 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Okay. Sorry to
13 interrupt in case anyone has questions.
14 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: No, that's fine.
15 Anyone else have any questions for
16 Mr. Neuschafer, comments?
17 MS. STUMP: Mr. Chair, can I ask a
18 question of him?
19 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Please.
20 MS. STUMP: Brandon, I just wanted to
21 clarify. So, after the Section 204.70 discussion,
22 the statement in our report is that the intervenor
23 MIEC supports the use of impervious area charges as
24 fair and reasonable without regard to the legal
25 issues. Is that -- I mean, is the first part of
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1 that correct?
2 MR. NEUSCHAFER: Well, I think what we
3 have said is an impervious area charge can be fair
4 and reasonable. I don't -- I really just didn't
5 want to leave any impression that we were taking the
6 position one way or the other with respect to the
7 legal issues surrounding 204.700.
8 MS. STUMP: Thank you.
9 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Further questions
10 for Mr. Neuschafer?
11 Mr. Neuschafer, thank you, and thanks to
12 MIEC for your interest in this process and the
13 information you provided to us. Appreciate it.
14 Ms. Stump, is legal counsel ready to
15 present its closing statement?
16 MS. STUMP: I am. Thank you.
17 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Please proceed.
18 MS. STUMP: And again, let me reiterate
19 what my colleagues have said about thanking you all
20 for the time and the commitment that you all have
21 put in, and certainly from my standpoint this rate
22 commission has helped me do my job a lot of the time
23 with the questioning. So, I appreciate your
24 interest and your involvement.
25 And I, again, like the other parties,
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1 summarized most of the issues when we last met, plus
2 we filed the prehearing conference report yesterday
3 summarizing the issues. So, I will try to keep from
4 being repetitive, but I do want to point out a few
5 things and I want to talk a little bit more in the
6 context of what your obligations and authority as
7 the rate commission are as you head into
8 deliberations and finally drafting a rate
9 recommendation report.
10 So, the rate commission is to determine
11 whether the rate change proposal or any alternative
12 proposal meets the criteria for recommendations
13 contained in Section 7.040 and 7.270 of the charter
14 plan. And as you all know, we believe that there
15 are really eight different factors you have to
16 consider. There's three criteria and five factors
17 under the two different sections of the proposal.
18 In the prehearing conference report I
19 have discussed the issues, all of the issues, but
20 not necessarily in the context of the criteria or
21 factor that they affect. Certainly all of the
22 issues we discussed in the proceedings will affect
23 whether the rate recommendation to the board of
24 trustees results in rates that impose a fair and
25 reasonable burden on all classes of ratepayers, but
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1 just be aware as we go into the process some of the
2 issues will affect some of the other criteria and
3 factors, too.
4 For example, the first criteria under
5 Section 7.040 provides that the report of the rate
6 commission must consider whether the proposed
7 changes provide the funds necessary to pay interest
8 and principal falling due on bonds issued to finance
9 assets of the district. Well, as we all know, the
10 district has not proposed any bonds. So, this is
11 not an issue under their rate proposal. However,
12 MIEC has suggested that the rate commission at least
13 consider a rate where there would be some debt
14 issuance. So, we don't know how much, but debt
15 could be a part of what you end up discussing. In
16 which case, then we would ask does the rate
17 commission wish to consider a proposed stormwater
18 capital rate that provides for the issuance of
19 additional debt beyond that in the district's rate
20 change proposal and, if so, how much? So, that will
21 be one of the factors that will have to be
22 considered.
23 Another example is under Section 7.270
24 of the charter, which provides that the report of
25 the rate commission must consider whether the rate
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1 change proposal is consistent with constitutional,
2 statutory, or common law as amended from time to
3 time. We will be asking the rate commission does
4 the rate commission wish to consider as a part of
5 its report on whether the charges are consistent
6 with the law, a statement regarding the imposition
7 of the stormwater capital rate on governmental and
8 nonprofit property owners. We'll also ask you
9 whether you want to consider a statement related to
10 the effect in that footnote. And similarly, we'll
11 ask you if you want to consider a statement
12 regarding the applicability of Section 204.700 of
13 the Missouri Statutes.
14 But as is apparent from the discussions
15 throughout the proceedings and especially today,
16 most of your deliberation and discussion will go
17 towards the fifth factor, which is the report of the
18 rate commission must consider whether the proposed
19 changes impose a fair and reasonable burden on all
20 classes of ratepayers. Again, the use of debt will
21 come up in this discussion because if you use debt,
22 it may affect the amount of the rate, as well as all
23 the issues related to the size of the CIRP. We will
24 ask you does the rate commission wish to consider
25 whether the proposed CIRP results in rates that
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1 impose a fair and reasonable burden on all classes
2 of ratepayers. And even under this part there's
3 several subissues.
4 For example, do you wish to consider
5 whether the district completed sufficient planning
6 in the CIRP to justify the proposed rate change? Do
7 you wish to consider whether the size of the CIRP is
8 appropriate? Does the rate commission wish to
9 consider whether the CIRP should include
10 improvements on private property? And then,
11 finally, does the rate commission wish to consider
12 whether contributions from private parties or groups
13 or cost sharing should change the prioritization
14 used in the CIRP? And these will all be discussions
15 that will go towards deciding whether the proposed
16 CIRP results in rates that impose a fair and
17 reasonable burden on all classes of ratepayers.
18 Other discussion and issue topics that
19 will come up under fair and reasonable rates would
20 be does the rate commission wish to consider
21 applying the proposed rate change to all classes of
22 property, including nonprofits and governmental,
23 results in rates that impose a fair and reasonable
24 burden on all classes of ratepayers? And does the
25 rate commission wish to consider whether the
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1 district's proposed incentive systems results in
2 rates that impose a fair and reasonable burden on
3 all classes of ratepayers?
4 So, these are the types of things that
5 you will be considering. There will be -- it's your
6 decision. You may have other issues that we haven't
7 discussed that are important to you that you learned
8 from the record, and certainly we will include those
9 in all discussions. I know that the reports were
10 just filed yesterday, but I just want to urge you to
11 read them all prior to beginning your deliberations.
12 You all have a very big job ahead of you, but that's
13 why you -- that's why you're in the position that
14 you're in.
15 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you,
16 Ms. Stump.
17 Questions for Ms. Stump?
18 Mr. Mahfood.
19 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Lisa, it seems
20 like criteria five is the -- is the crux of the
21 issues. Is that fair?
22 MS. STUMP: I believe that's correct.
23 And I do think that some of them -- you will have a
24 discussion under some of the other factors and
25 criteria, and some of them will be repeated maybe.
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1 Like, for instance, the debt issue. If you decide
2 that you -- that considering debt is appropriate,
3 that's going to play into some of the other factors
4 also. I'll be honest. In my mind I'm toying -- you
5 know, usually we've always started at the beginning
6 when rate commissions done deliberations before, but
7 in my mind I'm thinking about proposing to you maybe
8 starting with the fifth factor because it does
9 affect so many of the other ones if you decide. So,
10 I don't know. We'll find out on the 10th.
11 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Figure that out
12 during our first meeting?
13 MS. STUMP: Yes.
14 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Yeah, Mr. Chairman.
15 I would like to talk to our counsel separately, and
16 I want to know when is the appropriate time for us
17 to obtain certain legal guidance from our counsel,
18 and I don't know if that's at the next meeting or if
19 it would be appropriate to have that discussion at
20 the close of this meeting but in private with our
21 counsel.
22 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Would you like to
23 take a five-minute recess and have that discussion
24 now?
25 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Well, I think --
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1 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Would that...?
2 COMMISSIONER GOSS: I think it's a
3 conversation that needs to happen amongst the
4 commission members.
5 MS. STUMP: You are authorized to go
6 into closed session for any of the reasons justified
7 under the Sunshine Law which one is to receive on
8 legal matters. So, it's up to you all whether -- I
9 guess without knowing exactly what you want to
10 discuss, if you want -- I mean, whether to do it
11 today or to do it at the beginning of the meeting on
12 the 10th I think would also be fine because then we
13 would have time to provide you the feedback that you
14 need, but you can do either.
15 COMMISSIONER GOSS: I consider the
16 conversation about the topics with you and what I
17 want to talk about to be privileged, and I also want
18 to give you time to be able to be fully prepared on
19 the 10th so that we would be -- have that
20 information in advance to be guided. However,
21 that's just my desire, and the rest of the
22 commission might say, well, we really don't desire
23 that, Mr. Goss. And so, I want to have that
24 conversation with my commission members.
25 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Well, I would
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1 suggest, Mr. Goss, since it's one for all and all
2 for one, I would think that I suggest that we do go
3 into executive session and have that brief
4 five-minute conversation or ten-minute conversation
5 with all the rate commissioners and Ms. Stump now so
6 that no different than any other dialogue that we
7 can be included and stay as cohesive as possible.
8 MR. HOELSCHER: Mr. Chair, I hate to do
9 this. Based on our experience with this and
10 application of state law, I think we'd like for you
11 to hear from Ms. Myers from the Sunshine Law and the
12 guidance we've gotten from the state about holding
13 non-advertised closed sessions and look for your
14 indulgence if we could express that issue, if that's
15 possible.
16 MS. STUMP: I mean, that's up -- I don't
17 mind hearing her -- I don't mind hearing --
18 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Go ahead.
19 MS. STUMP: -- her opinion. I may
20 disagree with it, but...
21 MS. MYERS: Well, it's our opinion that
22 when you're holding a public meeting, if you plan to
23 have a closed session at that public meeting, it
24 needs to be part of the agenda, which needs to be
25 posted within 24 hours before the meeting. So, I
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1 mean, it would be my opinion that it's not
2 appropriate to have a closed session meeting at this
3 particular meeting today.
4 MS. STUMP: I disagree. I feel that
5 when you're in a -- my understanding, when you're in
6 a public session, even though you're not planning on
7 going into closed session, you always have the
8 authority to do so in the instances that you need
9 to, but I'm concerned that Ms. Myers has now raised
10 the issue, and I don't know if it's something that
11 we really want to get into an argument about. So,
12 perhaps -- I would maybe suggest that Mr. Goss and I
13 have a conversation, even though it's not --
14 obviously not the feelings of the whole commission,
15 but certainly I know in my view what some of the
16 legal issues are and I think I know some of what
17 he's indicated. We probably have prepared those,
18 but I would suggest maybe perhaps that Mr. Goss and
19 I have a conversation and that we do schedule and
20 notice a closed session at the beginning on
21 July 10th, but we can discuss ahead of time to
22 ensure that I am, in fact, researching the issues
23 that you believe should be researched. And I would
24 also suggest that if there are other issues, I can
25 summarize those in an email to you all and if there
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1 are other issues, you can let me know and we can be
2 prepared on the 10th.
3 COMMISSIONER GOSS: That would be
4 satisfactory with me, Mr. Chairman.
5 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Do any of the
6 commissioners have any objection to that approach?
7 Thank you, Ms. Stump. And thank you,
8 Ms. Myers. We will proceed accordingly.
9 Any other questions for Ms. Stump at
10 this point?
11 Prior to closing this public hearing,
12 several of the exhibits were received at 4:55 last
13 night. So, they did meet the letter of the law. We
14 received the residential incentive program, the MSD
15 prehearing conference report, and MIEC's prehearing
16 conference report. I know that those are three, and
17 perhaps our pre-conference report were all received
18 late last evening or late afternoon. My question
19 is: Would the rate commissioners like to review
20 those and have further discussion and allow further
21 questioning of the district and MIEC and our team
22 here as part of the next meeting on the 10th, or
23 should we consider those as entered into evidence
24 and close the public hearing sessions and begin our
25 deliberations? The question is: Do you want to ask
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1 any more questions? Do you want more time to review
2 those and ask questions subsequent to today or not?
3 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Clarification.
4 In the past we've only had one other rate commission
5 process. During our deliberations I believe we've
6 been able to get additional information if we come
7 up with that during our discussion. Is that true or
8 not true?
9 MS. STUMP: The district has not
10 participated in the discussions in your
11 deliberations during your meetings. I believe there
12 have been times -- they're usually present and I
13 believe there have been times where your discussion
14 has gone in a direction where you ask for additional
15 information where they've provided it, but not the
16 ability to talk back and forth with Brian, for
17 example, is usually not a part of the deliberation
18 process.
19 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: But we can get
20 that information through you, if needed?
21 MS. STUMP: Correct. I don't know if we
22 ever actually make it a part of the -- but, you
23 know, we can make it -- I was thinking in the past
24 we've made it an addendum to the report rather than
25 a part of the exhibits, but if there's a certain
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1 thing you need, yes.
2 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Are those
3 deliberations public?
4 MS. STUMP: They are public except for
5 when we go into closed session, but as a general
6 basis, yes, they're public.
7 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Any of those
8 exhibits, though, or supplemental information would
9 not be part of the record; isn't that correct?
10 MS. STUMP: We will be closing the
11 record today, yes, and I can't --
12 COMMISSIONER GOSS: So, if you wanted
13 those to be part of the record, that would not be
14 accomplished, if that was important to you?
15 MS. STUMP: I mean, honestly, if you all
16 are -- it's your decision, but if you all are
17 thinking about things, then to me there's a little
18 bit of a hesitation there and there are still
19 questions and it doesn't -- we want to make sure the
20 record's correct and we want to do this right. So,
21 I think if there's any hesitation, then perhaps you
22 just continue this public hearing and provide a
23 little bit of time on the 10th to wrap everything
24 up, but, again, it's your decision.
25 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: So, I will ask
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1 the rate commissioners present, would you care to
2 conclude or close our rate change proceedings and
3 begin deliberations, or would you like to leave our
4 rate change proceedings open until July the 10th?
5 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Are you asking
6 for a motion to carry?
7 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, sir.
8 COMMISSIONER GOSS: So moved.
9 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: State your
10 motion.
11 COMMISSIONER GOSS: So, I would continue
12 the hearing until July 10th and then to allow us to
13 adequately consider the exhibits that were received
14 very late last night and to be able to ask questions
15 and also considering the other exhibits that we need
16 to place into the record. And my understanding with
17 that is that we can then close the hearing and
18 proceed with our deliberations so that we can do
19 both on that same date. Is that correct,
20 Mr. Chairman?
21 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes, Mr. Goss.
22 COMMISSIONER GOSS: So, that is the
23 motion I would make.
24 COMMISSIONER ZIEGLER: Second.
25 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: There's a motion
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1 made by Mr. Goss, seconded by Mr. Ziegler that we
2 will leave our proceedings open until July the 10th,
3 we will endeavor to close those on July the 10th and
4 then proceed with our deliberations, and that's the
5 motion and the second. Any discussion on the
6 motion?
7 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Mr. Chairman.
8 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes.
9 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Does that
10 obligate us to notify the public of this change in
11 procedure from what's been posted in the schedule?
12 MS. STUMP: No, because what we're
13 technically doing is continuing this public hearing.
14 So, we don't have to, like, re-notice as far as the
15 paper is concerned. There will be a public notice
16 of this meeting like there is of all your meetings.
17 So, it will identify what's going to occur on the
18 10th, but we don't have to worry about the
19 advertisement and all the public from that
20 standpoint.
21 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Since we've
22 already expected the public hearing.
23 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Will that
24 include a portion of closed sessions, then, as well
25 for the 10th?
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1 MS. STUMP: Well, that was going to be
2 my question. I mean, it sounds like what you all
3 are thinking is -- tell me if I'm wrong. You would
4 start on the 10th with continuing this public
5 hearing, which would essentially provide you to ask
6 additional questions of all the parties, we would
7 finalize the exhibit -- any additional exhibits,
8 submit that into evidence, close the public hearing,
9 close the proceedings, then you would vote to go
10 into closed session to have discussions with me, and
11 then after that, assuming there's still time, you
12 would start your deliberations.
13 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Yeah, that's the way
14 I understand it. I make one other suggestion going
15 forward that we add to every agenda the possibility
16 of going into closed session for legal matters and
17 just routinely make that part of our procedures. I
18 erroneously thought that was part of our agenda.
19 I'm used to that being part of every kind of
20 governing body's agenda when I appear before them.
21 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: 100 percent
22 agree, yes.
23 So, there's a motion made and seconded.
24 Is there further discussion on the motion?
25 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
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1 (All commission members present
2 responded by saying aye.)
3 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Opposed?
4 Abstained?
5 Hearing none. The motion carries.
6 So, we will not adjourn this meeting,
7 but we will take a recess until Tuesday morning,
8 July the 10th at 8 a.m. when we will continue this
9 public hearing and begin our deliberations
10 immediately following that. Adjourned.
11 MS. STUMP: Yes. I would just note, and
12 you'll know from Janis, that the deliberation
13 meetings remember all start at 8:00.
14 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Yes. So, this
15 meeting will start at 8:00.
16 Meeting adjourned.
17 (The hearing concluded at 11:43 a.m.)
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3 I, Amanda N. Farrar, a Certified Court
4 Reporter for the State of Missouri, do hereby
5 certify that the foregoing hearing was taken by me
6 to the best of my ability and thereafter reduced to
7 typewriting by me; that I am neither counsel for,
8 related to, nor employed by any of the parties to
9 the action in which this hearing was taken, and
10 further that I am not a relative or employee of any
11 attorney or counsel employed by the parties thereto,
12 nor financially or otherwise interested in the
13 outcome of the action.
14
15
16 ________________________
17 Certified Court Reporter
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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A
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26:4,16 28:9
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57:13
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16:7 17:4,5
18:10,20 19:6
19:11,14,23
20:2,13 21:4
21:12,17 22:2
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22:3,11,11,15
22:24 23:11,12
23:19,21,22
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36:13 42:4
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arguments
9:25
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34:1
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arrows 51:24
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asked 19:15,19
19:24 20:2
46:23 47:12
96:14
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102:3 112:5
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asphalt 77:15
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assemblage
77:4
assets 7:5 101:9
assign 82:5
assigning 75:14
assigns 75:15
75:16
assistance
35:10
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associated
44:18 51:17
association
44:24,24 91:7
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91:4
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25:9 114:11
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27:24
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attendance
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attended 37:4
attention 47:8
64:4,15
attorney 116:11
attribute 74:5
85:18 86:2,6
attributes 74:8
75:4,16,17
August 8:15
24:25 25:1
72:18 73:22
73:22
authority 97:7
100:6 108:8
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106:5
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33:2,6 37:13
39:10 45:15
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80:3 94:6
average 16:7
18:16,16,25
20:8 40:14,25
41:8,14 54:14
54:18 56:2
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back 10:12
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80:19
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47:10
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backyards
14:20 58:25
bad 37:1
balance 79:1
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ballot 34:11
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Bar 44:24
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18:14
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18:1 19:7 20:7
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58:25
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60:23 63:17
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bicycle-type
32:1
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22:23 41:2,12
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94:17,21,25
95:3,5,17 96:1
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53:6,9 57:22
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101:8,10
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19:17 76:16
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Brandon 4:19
81:16 98:20
break 43:12,14
43:19 46:1
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60:12 62:7
65:19,20 75:3
81:14 82:22
92:4 93:8
110:16
brick 78:8,9,16
bricks 78:11,12
brief 9:7 43:12
107:3
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bring 10:13 23:11
35:13 44:10
63:24 86:24
bringing 34:20
36:17 79:14
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5:12,13 34:7,8
71:22 72:2,8
73:2 75:3,24
76:5,18 77:3,9
80:10 82:18
82:20,22
84:2 88:21
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85:2
brought 64:18
86:9 88:21
91:16
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79:11
buff 61:24
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building 31:19
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buildings 58:10
built 69:18
burden 7:22
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102:19 103:1,17
103:24 104:2
C
C 5:1
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80:6,6 85:18
92:6,8
calendar 25:1
call 6:15 48:17
96:3
called 10:7 12:5
18:15 19:13
31:25 41:4
calls 95:12,13
capabilities
41:21
capability 76:21
capital 16:5,11
51:17 55:6
69:6,6,12,16
70:8 101:18
102:7
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card 96:17,18
96:25
care 12:25
26:13 53:12
112:1
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carries 115:5
carry 112:6
carrying 89:12
cars 73:17
case 24:21
45:19 98:13
101:16
cases 35:22
74:19
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cause 36:11
58:18 84:20
causes 17:13
73:8
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certain 74:5,6,7
74:7 76:6,23
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certainly 28:4
29:23 32:13
34:21 42:21
46:2 77:14
80:17 81:12
87:10 99:21
100:21 104:8
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CERTIFICATE
116:1
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certify 116:5
chair 4:4,5 6:11
6:11,13 39:20
67:15 98:4,17
107:8
Chairman 10:19
24:12,16 25:17
26:1 43:2,23
44:16 46:7,20
56:22 62:25
80:24 82:9
86:10 88:7
92:2 105:14
109:4 112:20
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5:6 6:25 7:9
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9:18,25 10:16
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49:14,18,19
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60:3,6 61:3,4
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63:9 64:11,17
65:9 68:7,24
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101:20 102:1
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112:2,4 113:10
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60:22 64:5
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75:1 101:7
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16:6,8 17:9
18:1,23,24
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72:6 73:21,23
74:22 79:21
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98:23 102:5
chart 19:1 47:6,9
51:14,19 58:16
charter 6:16,20
11:13 46:7 69:1
70:16 71:11
100:13 101:24
charts 73:3
choices 36:3
Choosing 36:11
chronological
81:2
circumstance
47:15 97:13
circumstances
71:2
CIRP 71:1
102:23,25
103:6,7,9,14
103:16
cities 80:14
citizen's 42:9
citizens 35:7
37:4,24 38:7
city 11:14 26:15
26:16 28:18
28:22,23,24
29:3,6,12,17
30:8,11,14 31:4
31:16 32:19,25
33:16 35:6,12
35:17 36:22
38:15,23 39:8
40:15 42:19
44:24 45:1
58:9 60:1,2
61:7,10 73:11
73:25 74:3,9
74:11,16 75:4
75:15,19 76:6
76:10 84:16
85:4 86:2
city's 32:4
claim 77:22
Clarification
81:20 110:3
clarifications
96:7 98:1
clarified 97:20
clarify 33:15
63:3 92:6
93:21 94:1,6
97:19 98:21
class 76:6,10
classes 7:23
34:19 48:6
69:2,23
70:20 71:12
100:25
102:20 103:1
103:17,21,24
104:3
cleaner 62:19
clear 78:9
94:24 96:11
97:2,11,21
clogged 78:13
78:24
close 11:7 29:8
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50:9 80:15
105:20 109:24
112:2,17 113:3
114:8,9
closed 106:6
107:13,23
108:2,7,20
111:5 113:24
114:10,16
closing 2:5
9:25 68:10,10
68:14 80:15
87:4 93:10
99:15 109:11
111:10
Club 45:1
Clyde 37:2
Coalition 44:25
51:5 57:12
cohesive 107:7
colleagues
99:19
collect 11:18
20:22 21:22
77:8 79:22
84:22
collected 11:19
11:21,21 20:20
27:11,15,20
collecting 25:12
79:25
collection 48:16
collectively
29:24
collects 12:22
15:13 70:12
combination
24:6
combined 51:21
51:22 53:13
61:8
come 18:8,18
20:15 56:11
57:16,24
59:22 79:9
91:24 102:21
103:19 110:6
comes 17:11
22:23 29:23
77:16 89:17,21
comfortable
88:2
coming 24:6
37:12 45:19
51:16 59:13
60:4 82:11
92:22
commenced
5:2
comment 2:3
10:5,11,17 26:6
43:17 80:12
87:15
comment's 11:6
commented
94:2,3
comments
10:15 26:9,25
30:5 34:16
35:2 42:17,22
43:18,18,21
57:8 90:14
91:14,25 98:16
commercial
20:5,12,17
22:14 23:18
commission 1:8
3:1 4:15 5:5
6:11,21 7:1,11
7:24 8:2,7,10
8:14,17,22
9:19,22 10:2
18:10 24:14,15
24:24 25:3,4
25:18,25 26:11
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44:1,6,15,17
45:7,8,10 46:2
46:3 54:7
67:9 68:9,11
68:17 71:9
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93:23 94:10
94:24 97:3,8
99:22 100:7
100:10 101:6
101:12,17,25
102:3,4,18,24
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28:15,18 29:13
29:14,14,16
30:5,7,8,20
31:16 32:8,24
33:4,11,13,13
33:15 34:4,6,6
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35:4 37:6,10
37:11,25 38:14
38:22 39:7,13
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40:4 42:16,25
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59:10 60:10,11
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63:25 64:20
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65:23 66:1,5
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71:22 72:2,8
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80:10,11,24,25
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84:2,25 85:1
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90:13 91:12,15
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112:22,24,25
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37:8 46:17,23
71:20 86:20
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107:5 109:6,19
112:1
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105:6
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89:8 99:20
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35:15 70:23
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comparatively
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91:21
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83:20
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complies 68:25
compliment
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48:13 51:21
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43:24
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91:16
concern 63:13
88:20 89:6
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2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
65:9 80:12
concerns 96:20
conclude 112:2
concluded
115:17
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concrete 12:19
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condition 50:21
conducted 9:2
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70:2,3 100:2
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47:13,19 48:3
48:5,8,10,11,12
48:16,22
49:13,16,17
50:4,20,21,25
51:12,17,21
52:17,20,22
53:3,11 57:13
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100:16 101:6
101:13,17,25
102:4,9,11,18
102:24 103:4
103:7,9,11,20
103:25 106:15
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34:18 42:23
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considerations
48:2
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25:4 27:8,18
28:3,19 34:13
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15:9 29:9
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90:17 104:5
105:2 112:15
consist 83:6
consistent 7:12
7:16 71:2
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consists 11:13
constantly 84:6
constitutes
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7:13 102:1
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44:21 52:10
consultant 8:18
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54:23
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44:19
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17:15 103:12
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33:7 47:18
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86:22 106:3
106:16,24
107:4,4 108:13
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23:3
cooperation
84:17
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Corps 30:18
31:5 34:2
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64:8 72:5
89:21 92:19
98:11 99:1
104:22 110:21
111:9,20 112:19
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20:17 21:21
23:15 27:12
38:3 49:4,23
49:24 50:16
53:21 54:5,18
55:2,7 74:10
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101:2,4 104:20
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23:10,18 60:6
69:10 71:4
73:9 74:3
75:20 80:9
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D 5:1
damage 29:1
dangerous
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
15:10
data 74:9,20
date 52:19,21
52:22 112:19
dated 81:5
daughter 36:24
day 3:4,5 12:1
78:6
day-to-day
58:20 59:2,19
60:7,8
days 8:11 24:15
de 14:17
deal 30:13
death 90:5
debate 37:16
debt 101:13,14
101:19 102:20
102:21 105:1,2
decide 25:4
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decided 18:4
41:18
deciding 103:15
decision 104:6
111:16,24
decree 46:25
47:13,19 48:3
48:5,8,10,12
48:16,23
49:13,17,18
50:4,20,21,25
51:12,18,22
52:17,20,22
53:3,11 57:13
57:25 60:22
61:3,22 64:11
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dedication
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deduction 42:11
defeated 34:12
definitely 33:8
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degree 80:5
delayed 60:7
delaying 51:11
52:1 64:7
delegates 44:17
deliberation
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110:17 115:12
deliberations
87:2 100:8
104:11 105:6
109:25 110:5
110:11 111:3
112:3,18 113:4
114:12 115:9
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desire 45:22
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75:4
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dining 74:7
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dirt 78:1
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disagree 88:16
107:20 108:4
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14:15 15:14
22:24 26:19
27:15 28:8
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84:23,24
diversity 41:22
divide 20:14
divided 18:21
83:10
document
54:20,24 57:1
57:4
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
documentation
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documents 9:1
9:6 68:5
doing 28:9,19
42:21 47:21
52:3 53:6
56:4 58:9,17
84:14 89:12
91:22 113:13
dollar 12:23
75:15 76:21
dollars 63:21
Don 5:14
door 10:6 15:24
dots 13:24
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downtown
59:24
drafting 100:8
drainage 7:15
driver 17:12
driveway 77:15
driveways 17:6
78:19 92:7,10
due 7:4 38:8
101:8
dynamic 88:9
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73:5 80:12
84:5 85:6
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63:20 78:12
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Education 45:3
effect 102:10
effective 21:21
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effectiveness
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effort 42:2
eight 100:15
either 13:15
15:16 74:23
97:15 106:14
Elaine 40:7
election 6:18,19
element 9:24
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Eleventh 4:23
eligible 38:3
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eliminated 13:16
Ella 38:18 43:1
email 80:18
86:22 87:24
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emails 82:11
emergencies
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emphasis 61:4
emphatic 85:7
employed 116:8
116:11
employee
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enable 42:2
enabling 89:25
encouraging
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endeavor 113:3
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enhancements
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entire 15:20
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entities 16:10
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Environment
45:1 51:5
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equivalent
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erosion 13:20
14:9,14 15:2,4
15:24 16:13
26:21 28:21
29:1 31:14
35:8 36:25
38:6,8,11
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escalating 30:4
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estimates 15:20
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evaluations
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events 13:3
everybody 23:5
48:18 60:14
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evidence 9:18
68:6 69:20
80:17 85:4
109:23 114:8
evidentiary
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exact 45:21
94:11,18
exactly 47:4,10
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15:2 20:12
21:9 22:5
31:14,19 58:8
77:18 79:10
101:4,23 103:4
110:17
excluding 71:24
71:25 72:3
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executive 81:4
107:3
exhibit 24:19
40:1 57:2,4
63:3,7 65:19
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67:11,25 68:6
81:19 114:7
exhibits 66:12
66:19 67:7,14
67:23 109:12
110:25 111:8
112:13,15 114:7
exist 11:23 16:18
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existing 10:24
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expand 70:20
expected 23:6
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expenditure
49:8 50:6,18
expenditures
48:6,7,9 83:17
experience
77:12 78:20
107:9
experienced
35:9 36:24
experiencing
35:8
experts 69:21
explain 56:19
60:21
explained 88:15
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
explanation
51:15
express 107:14
expressed
45:22
extend 32:20
63:16
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extra 17:10
extremely 39:19
F
face 26:11
facilities 7:16
23:3 48:15,24
49:24 50:8
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fact 22:23 46:7
69:21 71:10
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108:22
factor 100:21
102:17 105:8
factors 25:3
96:18 100:15
100:16 101:3
101:21 104:24
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18:11 34:19
42:6 69:2,22
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79:20 80:8
98:24 99:3
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103:1,16,19,23
104:2,21
fairly 27:13
fairness 82:23
95:13 96:3
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falling 7:4 49:15
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family 16:8 19:4
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family's 42:12
far 27:1 64:12
75:5 76:12
88:1 113:14
Farrar 3:8 4:22
116:3
favor 114:25
favors 36:3
fear 57:18
60:24 61:4
February 6:18
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24:14 54:8
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federal 7:20
32:4 47:16
49:16
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feedback
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feel 29:17 41:24
42:1 108:4
feeling 50:4
feelings 108:14
fees 27:23
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37:5,21 38:7
38:15,23 39:1
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102:17 105:8
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filed 8:5 93:21
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95:9 97:3
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fill 45:21
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final 28:5 48:20
52:19 70:10
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finalize 114:7
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100:8 103:11
finance 7:5
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financial 49:5
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financially
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find 15:7,8 24:18
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70:2 85:25
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fine 41:16 66:22
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finish 82:2 87:4
Fire 87:20
first 11:10 12:15
13:10 20:21
26:7 48:1 50:3
83:7 93:25
94:1 96:21
98:25 101:4
105:12
fiscal 20:21
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Fishpot 14:24
five 23:17 34:18
50:18 52:2,12
52:15,16,17
59:7,15 68:25
83:9 100:16
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five-minute
105:23 107:4
fixed 41:11
flooded 58:11
flooding 13:20
14:9,14,19,20
14:22 15:1
16:13 26:20
28:21 42:5
69:7,17 70:9
floodplain
16:22,25
floodplains
16:24
floor 87:22
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flow 74:6,7,8
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fluidized-bed
62:16
focused 61:9
84:18
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folks 15:10,25
18:6 21:23
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footage 18:16
77:19,20 92:7
footnote 102:10
footprint 92:21
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form 69:16
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28:12 29:23
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82:10
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55:25 56:4,8
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four-tier 19:5
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Frequency 21:5
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26:19
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15:21 27:15
29:3 30:9,15
30:22 31:17
32:2,3,9,15,21
33:1,5 70:11
71:3 84:7,19
89:17,19
funds 27:10,20
33:6 35:15
39:10 41:6
84:15 90:23
101:7
further 7:9 30:5
32:21 34:15
53:16,24
61:25 62:23
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
65:8 91:14,25
93:6 99:9
109:20,20
114:24 116:10
future 14:7 29:9
29:19 30:4
34:14 47:24
49:8,9 65:6
76:20
G
G 5:1
gallons 12:1
garage 92:18
92:23,25 93:1
93:3
garages 15:5
Garden 44:22
Gateway 31:22
general 6:19
18:24 44:18
49:4 52:5
65:2 68:19
72:11 111:5
generate 74:10
85:15
generated 39:9
generates 74:6
generating
17:12
geographic
13:15
Gerald 4:8
getting 14:21
15:10 31:13
51:8 56:5,12
58:14 72:14
75:14 78:9
give 10:23,24
19:1 40:4
47:12,22 51:15
54:5 55:14
60:18 67:20
72:11 75:11
78:4,15 89:19
106:18
given 8:22
12:14 32:8
38:9 89:10
gives 16:3 90:21
giving 64:15
go 14:1 16:15,15
17:22 19:1
24:17 43:16
45:15 46:15
48:1 50:24
51:25 53:4
54:19 55:15
56:3 62:16
63:6 66:11,15
67:20 78:3
79:4,10,12
83:23 87:19
90:3,3 96:18
101:1 102:16
103:15 106:5
107:2,18 111:5
114:9
goes 53:1 72:13
72:19,20
73:16 78:1
going 10:22,23
13:21 17:3,8
17:22 18:14
19:1,7,10 20:6
20:9 21:18
23:23 24:7
27:10,24 28:7
38:13 39:1
40:21 43:11,24
47:4,7,22
48:3 51:13
53:8,8 54:6
56:3,10,11
57:23 59:20
60:18 61:8
62:5,10 63:8
66:8 69:24
73:2 75:8,8
78:14 79:1
80:13 83:14,17
86:17 88:3
89:7 90:3
93:18 105:3
108:7 113:17
114:1,14,16
good 5:3 21:9
26:21 33:9
35:3,4 68:17
goodwill 36:12
Goss 4:8 5:17
30:7,8,20
31:16 32:8,24
33:4,11 37:10
37:11,25 38:14
38:22 39:7,13
39:15 43:23
44:3 62:25
63:1,2,10
80:24 81:1,15
81:23 82:6,9
90:12,13 91:16
92:2,15,25
93:5 105:14
105:25 106:2
106:15,23
107:1 108:12,18
109:3 111:7,12
112:8,11,21,22
113:1 114:13
gotten 107:12
governance
11:13
governing
114:20
government
11:11
governmental
102:7 103:22
Grand 59:25
grant 30:15,21
30:22 31:17
32:5,16 33:25
61:18 84:9,13
89:16,19 90:17
90:25 91:4,17
granted 8:13
grants 32:4
33:17,19 42:2
84:7
graphic 14:17,17
grass 79:17
gray 53:12,21
53:22
great 55:8
60:13 73:4
Greater 44:21
green 22:4
53:3,7,18
60:17,25 61:7
61:12,14,23
grew 41:7
ground 17:7
22:10 77:21
79:17
group 94:5
groups 19:3
103:12
guard 23:12,21
23:23
guards 23:13
53:8
guess 16:15,19
27:14 42:13
46:13 56:24
62:20 106:9
guidance
105:17 107:12
guided 106:20
H
habits 85:23
Half 19:20
hall 37:5
Hancock 13:5
hand 51:6
handling 48:14
48:24 50:19
hang 66:24
happen 15:3
106:3
happened
54:24
happening 36:4
happens 18:18
21:4
happy 40:16
42:14 66:22
97:23
hard 17:7
harm 36:12
hate 107:8
Hawes 4:5 5:18
5:19
head 32:22
38:21 100:7
hear 26:19
107:11
heard 37:14
57:17 69:4
70:23 73:4
77:2 82:25
85:9
hearing 5:2,5
9:12,15 10:4
26:9,17 27:3
60:16 64:2
65:16 80:16
83:6 85:6,10
107:17,17
109:11,24
111:22 112:12
112:17 113:13
113:22 114:5,8
115:5,9,17
116:5,9
hearings 24:21
hearth 62:15
heartstrings
40:12
held 8:20 9:16
24:16
help 28:7,20
35:21 37:19
38:5,10,12
39:12 56:18
63:23 64:5
helped 99:22
helpful 39:19
82:11
helping 58:10
58:10
hesitation 111:18
111:21
hey 79:12
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
high 51:16 85:8
high-visibility
36:11
higher 88:18
highest 83:24
historical 36:23
history 81:2
hit 50:2
hits 17:7,7
Hoelscher 10:18
10:19 26:4
45:5,12 46:6
46:11,25 47:2
57:7 58:2
59:11 61:5
62:3,6,12
63:5,19 64:9
65:2,11,13
71:25 72:6,11
73:10 75:7
76:3,9 77:1,5
79:3 83:3
84:3 85:9
92:3,9,20
93:2 107:8
hold 46:16
holding 53:18
107:12,22
home 16:8
35:24 37:1
41:10 44:23
92:18
homeowner
40:17 41:18,19
homeowners
91:3,7
homes 15:4
16:24 35:22
85:13,14
homestead 41:7
41:12 42:13
honest 105:4
honestly 111:15
hope 28:11
hopeful 55:21
55:23 91:3
hopefully 35:25
hours 3:4
107:25
house 15:24
household
40:25 41:14
houses 85:12
huge 77:13,19
85:15
husband 36:20
I
I-270 12:11,12
idea 33:9 52:5
80:22 91:15
identified 6:14
27:3,17 68:5
95:1
identify 10:8
28:10 53:20
73:15 113:17
identifying 8:25
27:2 31:7
ignore 42:22
immediate 17:11
53:15
immediately
115:10
impact 22:13
47:25 50:23
51:2,3 55:1
59:2 61:7
63:14 64:11,18
69:16 72:22
75:1 88:17
89:9 91:20
impacted
58:20
impactful 87:14
impacting 29:1
impacts 59:2
89:2
impair 7:19
imperative 46:1
46:2
impervious 16:6
17:4,4,5,11,25
18:1,10,20 19:6
19:11,14,23
20:2,13 21:4
21:12,17 22:2
22:3,6,11,15
22:24 23:2,11
23:19,22 24:1
24:7 69:5
77:10,13,15
78:2,6,14,16
78:22 80:5
83:18 88:11
89:10,22
92:10 98:23
99:3
imperviousne ...
79:18
implementati ...
65:24
implemented
76:2
important
45:25 48:4
53:25 58:19
58:22 90:7
95:17,25 96:1
104:7 111:14
impose 34:18
71:11 100:24
102:19 103:1
103:16,23
104:2
imposes 7:22
imposition
102:6
impression
99:5
improve 36:10
36:15 37:19
improvement
55:6
improvements
35:16 41:11
69:7,16 103:10
incentive 22:1
23:14 86:12,21
87:3,7,13 89:5
90:18,22 104:1
109:14
incentives 88:9
88:15,22,23
incentivizing
91:17
incinerate 48:21
incineration
48:20 51:10
59:5,5 62:15
incinerator 50:7
52:7
incinerators
48:24 49:11,15
49:22,25
50:11,14,15
59:8,16,23,24
60:2,4 62:9,17
include 92:7,9
92:17,23
103:9 104:8
113:24
included 51:11
91:4 93:1 98:9
107:7
including 64:25
103:22
inclusion 67:11
income 40:25
41:8,12,14
Incorporated
44:25
increase 36:17
55:16 56:7
63:14,15
75:20 86:1
88:14
increased
58:20
increases
55:20,24
75:23
increasing
86:12 87:14
indebtedness
7:18
INDEX 2:1
indicate 84:3
95:10
indicated 24:17
75:19 84:5
94:19 108:17
indicates 79:4
individual 15:17
16:25 19:3
25:21 28:21
74:12,21 75:16
75:17 77:2,7
79:7 91:6,8
individuals 11:8
16:23 25:20
58:5 59:18
74:10 85:11
indulgence
107:14
indulging 97:18
Industrial 4:18
8:5 45:2 93:9
industry 71:3
information
25:18 28:2
36:23 47:24
56:22 76:4,19
77:4 80:18
81:9,12 95:8
95:21 99:13
106:20 110:6
110:15,20 111:8
informed 60:14
infrastructure
28:25 29:4
30:14 31:11
53:4,7,12,18,21
53:23 60:17
61:1,7,13,14,23
70:15
initiate 34:2
initiated 30:22
31:4,6
initiative 55:3
61:19
initiatives 84:17
inlets 12:18
input 86:15,23
87:7,10
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
installation
49:24
installing 89:21
instance 22:7
56:7 58:7
84:6 96:21
105:1
instances 108:8
instrumental
35:18
interest 7:4
99:12,24 101:7
interested
24:21 61:12
116:12
interpreting
97:12
interrupt 98:13
interrupting
39:23
intervene 8:4,5
9:10
intervenor 8:18
68:8 87:8 88:1
98:22
intervenors 10:1
introduced
95:19,21
introductions
67:1
investment
35:24
involved 28:25
31:7 32:4 54:2
involvement
99:24
involving 90:18
issuance 101:14
101:18
issue 8:8,11,14
9:8,23 16:3
19:3 51:6
58:21,24
60:15 62:24
64:12 77:10
96:16,19,20
97:6,16,17
101:11 103:18
105:1 107:14
108:10
issued 7:4 84:8
101:8
issues 8:25 9:5
11:5 13:7,20
14:21 15:15,22
15:23 16:12,13
17:13 26:17,21
28:21 30:4
31:12 35:10
38:2 53:13
64:18 70:9
74:15 83:20
84:19 98:25
99:7 100:1,3
100:19,19,22
101:2 102:23
104:6,21
108:16,22,24
109:1
item 52:23
65:17
items 53:2
J
J 4:16
Janis 115:12
January 20:21
25:13
Jerry 5:10 37:3
job 41:16 55:8
99:22 104:12
Joe 40:14
John 4:9 6:2
joints 78:10,12
Jones 5:20
38:18 43:1,2
judge 47:16
55:19 57:1
July 20:23
108:21 112:4
112:12 113:2,3
115:8
jump 72:18
jumping 66:21
June 1:13 3:4
5:4 8:8,21 9:2
9:4 37:5 66:14
66:18 67:5
Justice 47:14
49:7 50:24
51:4
justified 106:6
justify 103:6
K
Kathy 36:21
37:2
keep 28:4 36:5
48:6 55:20
100:3
Kennard 5:20
kept 57:11
kick 14:10
kind 16:7,18
33:5,18 56:10
57:11,21 83:4
85:2 89:24
90:5 91:5
97:5 114:19
kinds 15:13 73:3
79:18
Kirkwood 73:13
74:24
kitchen 74:6
knew 18:2,2
48:23 49:7
62:4
know 16:13 27:3
30:17 38:11,14
38:22 39:1,4,5
47:9,23 53:16
55:21,22 57:11
60:19,20 66:7
67:19 71:16
76:20 77:19
81:9,12 85:20
86:5,8 88:12
89:22 90:4
92:12 100:14
101:9,14 104:9
105:5,10,16,18
108:10,15,16
109:1,16 110:21
110:23 115:12
knowing 76:14
106:9
L
Labor 44:21
lacks 41:22
Ladue 45:1
lady 85:7
land 35:9,22
41:17
landfill 48:22
large 21:9 22:19
48:11 85:11
larger 19:22
21:11
largest 12:3
23:7
Larue 36:22
37:2,2
late 109:18,18
112:14
Laura 40:7,7,10
42:18,24
Laverne 35:2,5
37:3 43:3
law 7:13 97:13
102:2,6 106:7
107:10,11
109:13
laws 7:21
lay 77:24
lead 90:22
League 44:19
44:22 80:21
81:5,8
learned 104:7
leave 25:22
37:1 96:24
97:14 99:5
112:3 113:2
left 40:17 55:24
left-hand 12:21
legal 10:1 57:4
68:8 71:6,6
97:6 98:24
99:7,14 105:17
106:8 108:16
114:16
legally 61:17
legislation
49:16
legislature
84:18
Lemay 48:19,25
57:22 62:17
length 36:6
Leonard 4:4 6:4
6:10
let's 67:6
letter 35:7
36:18,20
39:25 40:3
67:16 109:13
letting 60:19
92:12 97:19
level 29:12
51:16 59:22
80:7 91:19
levels 59:20
leveraged
30:14
lieu 53:11
life 35:23 49:1
limits 92:14
Lindbergh 12:11
12:12
line 31:13 52:25
lines 51:24
linkage 88:13,13
Lisa 4:16 39:22
39:24 104:19
list 13:19,22
27:6 44:5
66:12,19 67:7
67:8 68:1,6
75:25 83:23
listed 10:7 57:2
listening 38:19
90:16
lists 51:20
Litigation 4:22
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
little 15:1 19:2
41:1 70:21
75:14 83:4
84:4 86:8
94:15 100:5
111:17,23
live 35:25 42:7
42:10,18 85:11
lived 36:19
lives 41:25
58:20 59:19
60:8
living 85:14
Lloyd 5:24
loan 41:10
local 13:2 26:20
32:19 36:1
80:12 81:2
84:12 91:19,22
localized 14:18
14:20
located 16:24
64:17 74:11
locations 27:8
62:16
locked 85:19
85:20 86:5
long 16:1
long-term 47:18
61:21 63:8
look 12:20
13:23 15:12
24:10 25:6
26:9 39:6
40:21 41:24
50:13 51:14,19
52:8,24 58:15
81:18 82:3
88:10 93:3
96:2 107:13
looked 94:18,19
95:6
looking 26:22
27:19 53:15
62:9 80:1
82:7 84:6,15
losing 35:22
lost 78:25
lot 15:6,8,23
21:10 31:8
32:2 33:16,25
36:23 37:16
39:2,2 45:13
45:18 53:25
58:4,8 61:9
69:19 70:21
74:15 85:12,14
87:13 99:22
Louis 1:9,15 3:2
3:6,7 4:12,23
6:12,17,17
35:13 40:25
44:19,20,21
44:23 45:2
58:9 59:24
60:23 64:2,4
73:12 74:1,3,11
76:14 81:3,4,7
88:9 89:3
low 21:17 55:24
56:7 88:17
96:23
low-impact
23:24 30:1
lower 22:13
63:24
LRA 41:9
LTCP 65:24
Lutheran 44:20
Lyons 94:8,10
94:18 95:10
M
ma'am 37:25
39:13,15
Mahanta 5:21
Mahfood 4:9
5:22,23 57:9
57:10 59:10
60:10,12 87:15
87:20,22 88:4
88:6 90:10
91:14,15 104:18
104:19
Mahfood's
90:14
maintain 12:8,16
13:12 50:5,7
maintained
35:24 88:24
maintenance
7:6 31:19 38:8
48:10 55:2
70:14 89:6
major 28:25
48:13 58:16
making 87:14
Malone 4:16
44:10,11,16
manage 34:2
management
16:23 23:9
30:1
managers
16:25
manages 31:22
manholes 12:18
manufacturer
77:20
map 13:17,23
15:15 27:2,5
65:3
maps 64:13
Mark 4:6 6:1
Market 1:14 3:6
match 32:19
39:10
math 56:4
Matter 46:7
85:24
matters 2:4
43:22 46:16
46:18 67:2
106:8 114:16
maximize 33:6
mean 77:14
78:17 80:15
81:13 98:25
106:10 107:16
108:1 111:15
114:2
meant 16:11
measure 39:9,9
measured 23:2
measurement
74:4
media 45:13
meet 48:7 71:4
109:13
meeting 1:8 3:1
36:9 43:13,16
46:23 59:6
59:22 68:2
105:12,18,20
106:11 107:22
107:23,25
108:2,3
109:22 113:16
115:6,15,16
meetings 24:16
35:12 110:11
113:16 115:13
meets 23:12
49:10 71:10
100:12
member 35:6
40:23 42:25
members 9:22
10:10 11:14
43:6 46:4
67:9 68:11
106:4,24 115:1
mention 51:7
98:7
mentioned
17:19 30:13
32:13 37:14
58:8 75:4 91:2
Meramec 14:22
22:20
merits 57:15
met 49:10 100:1
meter 74:1 85:5
metered 73:21
74:14 85:17
method 17:17
methods 30:1
70:22
Metro 44:23
Metropolitan
1:8 3:2,5 4:12
6:12 35:14
Mickey 4:10
5:15
middle 53:1
MIEC 94:4,6,15
96:9 97:9
98:23 99:12
101:12 109:21
MIEC's 96:19
96:20,24
109:15
mile 11:22
miles 12:2
million 11:22
12:1 13:17,22
14:8,10 15:19
16:5 18:22
20:25 21:1,2,3
25:14 49:5
50:16 53:5,10
53:14 61:13
63:21 64:14
65:3
mind 28:4 48:6
105:4,7 107:17
107:17
minds 64:15
minimum 24:3
89:23
minutes 32:23
miscalculated
79:8
mischaracteri ...
79:8
Mississippi
22:19 58:24
83:8
Missouri 1:15
3:7,9 4:18,23
8:5 18:3 22:19
44:22,25
45:2 47:20
61:20 93:9
97:7 102:13
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
116:4
Missouri-Ame...
73:12 74:24
mistaken 30:17
Mitchom 35:2,3
35:5,5 37:2,3
37:9,11,22
38:5,17,25
39:11,14,17
40:2 43:3
mitigate 69:7,16
mitigation 31:23
mixed 11:19
78:17
modify 70:24
money 39:2,9
54:17 84:11,11
88:24
moneys 84:9
monitoring
79:24
month 16:9
18:24 19:16,20
19:25 20:3,16
20:18 21:13,21
21:22 22:17
40:20 54:15
55:15 79:23
79:23
monthly 21:7,22
41:2,12 72:9
73:5,6
months 14:24
21:24 69:19
morning 5:3,8
34:23 35:3,4
39:19 40:8
41:4 42:20
68:17 115:7
motion 112:6,10
112:23,25
113:5,6 114:23
114:24 115:5
Mound 44:24
move 10:17 25:7
26:5 34:22
36:25 40:2
42:4,23 52:6
58:10 66:2
88:12
moved 50:18
52:11,14 112:8
movement
58:17
moves 28:5,11
moving 16:18
43:21 51:9
52:16
MSD 8:17 10:24
10:25 11:4,11
12:7,9,12,15,21
13:11,19 14:13
15:12 17:23
19:2 20:15
21:6,14,16,21
22:20 24:11
25:12,15 26:19
26:22 29:24
30:3,16 31:6,9
32:9,14 35:10
35:15,18,20
36:5,10,15,16
37:19 39:10
40:19,22 41:3
41:13,16,20,22
42:11 47:13
48:12,15 50:9
50:23 51:7
52:18 54:18
55:1 65:22
68:18 69:1,11
69:14 70:11,14
70:16,25 71:21
71:23 72:5,8
72:24 73:9,19
74:9 75:16
79:22 80:1
83:6,10,14,20
84:4,6,11,11
85:3,8 86:14
92:1 93:7,24
94:2,3,5,14,17
94:25 95:20
96:8,10,16
97:12 109:14
MSD's 11:24
16:4 18:17
19:17,20 24:17
25:5 48:2
51:17 71:5
95:18 96:2
97:9,15
Multi-family
20:5
multiple 36:2,13
62:15
municipal 32:5
32:6 44:19
76:15 80:21
81:5,8 83:11,12
municipalities
11:23 15:17 17:1
32:18 76:1,12
76:20 77:2,7
80:22 81:6
83:15 84:12
90:18,21
municipality
34:9 72:10
90:20
Myers 4:13 44:4
44:7 65:17,18
65:19,25
67:10,25 68:4
68:13,15,17,18
71:20 75:9,10
93:8,18 107:11
107:21 108:9
109:8
N
N 3:7 4:22 5:1
116:3
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name's 26:15
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61:21
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31:12 35:21
42:8 50:15
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106:14 108:8
111:1 112:15
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needs 36:15
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93:14 98:1,3,4
98:6,12,16
99:2,10,11
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32:15 49:25
50:1 62:10
63:4,5 70:7
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112:14
nine 29:6
non-advertised
107:13
non-livable
92:18
non-metered
85:22
nonprofit 102:8
nonprofits
103:22
nonresidential
20:6,9 21:1,11
north 4:23
40:23,24 41:6
42:7 44:24
58:9 61:2,9
64:2,5,12 65:1
84:16
northern 57:20
not-for-profit
17:20
note 52:23
80:13 94:22
95:9,17 115:11
noted 81:6
notice 6:25
7:25 8:9
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113:15
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November 6:19
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number 13:24
13:25 18:20
20:10 27:4
29:2,19 31:2
45:21 48:9
67:20 72:12
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numbers 49:4
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O 4:16 5:1
o'clock 5:4
objection 81:19
82:4 109:6
objections 9:20
obligate 113:10
obligated 76:23
obligations
100:6
obtain 105:17
obvious 51:2
obviously 27:10
32:20 59:5
75:1 81:8
108:14
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occur 27:16
28:12 113:17
offer 23:14
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offering 32:16
offers 42:12
official 40:6
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offline 76:22
Oftentimes
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66:14 80:13
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65:7 75:24
80:10 98:12
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once 14:10 21:13
41:3 49:21,22
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one-year 23:13
ones 83:24
94:18 105:9
ongoing 65:6
88:22,22
89:5
open 45:11 112:4
113:2
opening 50:24
71:18
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operate 12:8,16
13:11 50:7
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operation 7:6
48:10 55:2
59:14 70:14
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71:5,7,8 87:9
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opportunities
29:25 31:7
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68:12
opposed 62:22
96:9 115:3
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80:21
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26:22 80:3
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26:6 61:15
74:10
ordinance 91:18
ordinances
29:22
organization
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organizations
10:9 44:18
45:6,17 46:9
organized
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49:24 53:10
originally 8:7
49:3 55:4
ought 76:19
83:1
out-years 52:11
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71:11
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32:3 84:6
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7:18
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50:17 64:25
72:8
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53:19
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11:10
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91:6
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102:8
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P
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page 2:3,4,5,6
47:6 66:17,22
72:22
paid 27:23
Palans 5:24
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94:23 96:8
113:15
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93:22
parameters
54:16 79:24
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parents'40:24
41:10
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32:5,6 33:18
34:9 38:15
76:2,17,24,25
80:12 81:21,24
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28:13 37:18
37:25 40:5
47:19 48:9,12
49:15 50:20
51:11 56:18
57:12,19,20
61:9,22 63:8
75:8,9,12,17
79:19 80:20
86:3 89:15
98:25 101:15
102:4 103:2
107:24 109:22
110:17,22,25
111:9,13 114:17
114:18,19
participant 9:3
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participate 9:11
32:25 45:23
participated
30:9 31:17
94:12,13
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45:19 49:22
62:24 71:2
80:2 108:3
parties 8:18
54:2 70:4
86:24 87:2
99:25 103:12
114:6 116:8,11
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passage 12:9,14
13:13 91:18
passed 13:10
38:15 39:5
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passes 20:21
patio 22:7
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paved 12:19
pavement 22:4
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paver 78:16
pavers 22:9
78:8,9,10
pay 7:3 17:21
19:3,15,19,25
20:2 23:6
47:8 85:17
101:7
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20:25 21:2,20
54:14 85:13,16
payment 23:14
pedestrian 32:1
people 27:24
36:10 40:23
42:4 43:20
44:5,14 46:5
58:10,19
60:24 85:14
92:12
people's 57:21
85:23
perceive 36:10
percent 14:4,5
22:22,23
23:6,22,25
24:2,9 34:12
49:23 50:10
55:16 56:3,5,7
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percentage
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perception
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Peres 14:24
51:23 52:8,13
52:25 53:5,17
58:23 61:15
Perfect 82:15
performed 95:4
period 10:5,17
55:24
permit 9:16,22
9:25 59:11,13
59:22
permitted 9:11
permitting
29:18
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person 8:2 26:7
35:1 38:20
personal 77:12
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perspective
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pertains 28:24
29:4
pervious 22:2,4
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77:13,16,17,22
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78:5,11,17,21
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88:10 89:21
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41:20
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48:25
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41:20 48:11,13
49:2
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61:24 100:1
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46:19 88:8
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96:6 97:1,23
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59:15
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113:24
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95:18 96:8,11
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59:4 61:11
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80:2 107:7,15
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38:11 39:4
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74:4,20
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29:19 51:2
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32:15 64:21
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practice 19:8
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30:2
pre-conference
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47:20
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prehearing
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70:1,3 100:2
100:18 109:15
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preliminary
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prepared 9:1,6
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67:8 81:3 95:3
106:18 108:17
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6:5,7,13 10:10
35:7 42:20
56:20 67:8
68:9,13 86:17
93:10 99:15
110:12 112:1
115:1
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10:22,24 26:2
26:17 56:18
presentation's
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presented
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31:12 58:14
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prioritization
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83:24 84:24
89:11 96:23
private 16:22
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18:5 38:11
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14:18,23 15:6
15:14 16:2,15
16:16,17,18
17:16 27:17
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procedural 2:4
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46:16,18 65:15
67:2 86:11
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Procedurally
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procedures
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proceed 10:18
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93:13 99:17
109:8 112:18
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18:9 25:18,23
54:21 57:5
69:5 100:22
102:15 112:2,4
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process 17:24
25:13 27:6
32:17 45:11
47:21 51:8
56:12 57:11,12
68:21,23 71:15
75:5 99:12
101:1 110:5,18
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product 77:21
77:23
program 15:20
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30:23 31:1,23
31:24,25 32:9
32:16 33:1,6
37:13,18 42:13
51:17 53:4,6,7
53:10 54:1,3
54:18,23 55:6
55:10 65:24
71:1,3 79:23
83:19 84:13
86:12 87:7,14
89:5,16 90:17
90:18,19 91:1,5
91:17 95:14
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22:1 30:10,15
30:21 31:18,21
32:14 33:25
61:18 65:6
86:21 87:3
89:20
project 13:25
14:2 31:3,10
32:7,18,20
42:3 49:3
51:10 52:7
62:22,22
72:24
projected 56:16
projecting
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projection
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projects 13:21
14:5,14 26:24
27:2,4,16,21
27:25 28:11,12
28:21,24 29:2
29:25 30:13
30:19 31:4
32:1,3 33:23
34:3 38:1,4
41:17,23 51:12
52:1,10 57:18
57:22 60:17
61:1,2,19 64:7
64:21,23
82:24 88:22
89:9 95:2
96:17,22
prone 42:5
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17:20 19:9,17
19:22 20:10
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13:9 17:10
18:17,25 19:7
19:13,15 20:11
20:18 24:2
35:10 38:2,13
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70:12,13 86:2
89:20,25
92:11,14 102:8
103:10,22
proposal 8:3
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14:12,16 18:12
19:25 24:13
24:20 29:23
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54:6,10,11
55:4,23 56:2
56:13,20
68:24 69:2,5
69:8,22 70:7
70:25 71:6,10
72:23 75:13,18
79:3,15 83:22
85:25 86:3
89:19 93:17
97:22 100:11
100:12,17
101:11,20 102:1
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7:12 8:8 9:17
9:25 15:7 16:8
17:21 18:19
25:5 32:11
33:7 45:17
47:13 52:1
53:2 57:14
63:4,5,6,8
66:19 67:7
88:14 95:15
101:6,10,17
102:18,25
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proposes 70:7
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18:5 19:3
88:16,18 89:18
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Proposition
12:5,9,15 13:10
13:13,18
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protection
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provide 7:15
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27:7 35:2
46:24 73:14
83:23 91:22
101:7 106:13
111:22 114:5
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providers 74:21
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provision 7:17
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public 2:3 5:5
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10:10,15,17,20
11:6 12:10,13,16
12:17 13:12
14:13 15:16
17:19 22:25
22:25,25 23:1
24:21 25:5,8
25:11,15,20,23
26:6 29:3
30:14 43:1,7,9
43:17,18 45:12
62:12,13 64:1
65:4,15 69:13
69:13 70:14
80:16 85:6
92:12 107:22
107:23 108:6
109:11,24 111:3
111:4,6,22
113:10,13,15,19
113:22 114:4,8
115:9
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purpose 8:24
13:4 14:15
53:9,15
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48:23 72:23
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39:25 49:21
53:3 54:1
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77:18,24
78:20 79:16
83:14 99:21
puts 41:13
putting 17:24
23:15 25:13
74:13 95:16
puzzle 70:11
Q
quality 31:24
58:21,23 60:4
89:2
quarter 19:16
73:20
quarterly 21:18
21:23
question 27:10
27:13,18 46:14
62:8 64:1
82:19 85:1,3
86:10 92:3
95:12,13 96:3
98:18 109:18
109:25 114:2
questioning
99:23 109:21
questions 2:6
8:23 9:23
28:14,15 30:6
34:16 37:9
39:17 42:15,16
43:20 46:17
57:8,16 62:1
62:24 65:9
68:12 71:19,20
71:23 87:5
92:1 93:7 94:9
96:14 97:24
98:2,13,15
99:9 104:17
109:9 110:1,2
111:19 112:14
114:6
quick 11:10 81:18
82:3
quickly 87:24
quite 26:18
R
R 5:1
rabbit 86:8
rain 23:12,13,21
23:23 53:7
92:22
rainfall 13:3
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raise 76:16
raised 8:25 9:5
77:11 108:9
range 15:22
16:2 77:17
rate 1:8,11 2:6
3:1,3 4:15 5:5
5:6 6:11,14,21
6:25 7:1,3,9,10
7:12,24,24 8:1
8:2,7,9,10,13
8:13,16,18,22
8:25 9:6,14,17
9:25 10:2,16
10:21 11:1 14:12
14:16 16:11 17:4
17:21,25 18:1,5
18:6,10,19
20:19 22:6,17
23:6,17 24:13
24:14,20,23
25:2,4,5,18
25:25 32:10
34:18 37:8,19
38:1 40:22
42:9 43:25
44:6,7,14,17
45:6,8,10
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55:22,24
58:4 63:14,15
64:10,10 67:9
68:7,9,11,21
68:24 69:2,6
69:12 70:7,8
70:16,17,18,22
71:5,9,20
72:20,23,25
73:23 74:23
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80:18 83:18
86:3,20 88:14
89:13,18 91:20
93:23 94:10
94:24 97:3,4
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100:7,8,10,11
100:23 101:5
101:11,12,13,16
101:18,19,25
101:25 102:3,4
102:7,18,22
102:24 103:6
103:8,11,20,21
103:25 105:6
107:5 109:19
110:4 112:1,2,4
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10:9 67:17
71:24
ratepayers 7:23
9:10,16 34:20
63:17 69:3,23
70:20 71:13
100:25
102:20 103:2
103:17,24
104:3
rates 6:23,23
6:23 20:20
22:13 42:11
49:9 51:3
54:8 55:1
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84:21 85:3,5,8
88:16,18,25
100:24 102:25
103:16,19,23
104:2
rationale 9:9
Ratzki 5:25
RC 67:21,22
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reach 30:24,25
49:1
reached 44:14
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104:11
reading 73:20
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ready 68:13
87:18 93:10
99:14
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reality 77:17
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61:17 71:17
85:6 88:20
91:9 97:22
99:4 100:15
106:22 108:11
reasonable
7:22 34:19
54:17 69:2,22
70:17,19 71:12
79:21 80:8
98:24 99:4
100:25 102:19
103:1,17,19,23
104:2
reasonablene...
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53:25 106:6
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21:16 22:22
40:19 94:16
106:7
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8:17 36:2
109:12,14,17
112:13
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115:7
recognized
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recollection
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recommend 7:2
recommenda...
24:25 25:2
100:9,23
recommenda...
6:22 100:12
recommended
7:10 18:22
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24:18 34:22
40:6 65:21
69:18 71:7,8
81:10 86:18
89:23 91:11
93:17 95:19,21
97:2,14 98:10
104:8 111:9,11
111:13 112:16
record's 111:20
redid 75:12
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53:20,24 55:1
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55:7 116:6
reduces 24:6
reducing 55:9
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59:12,15 75:21
86:1 89:1
reevaluate 75:7
refer 47:7
reference 85:6
95:7
referenced
73:4
referring 65:3
84:8
refers 13:25
regard 49:9
64:9 84:21
98:24
regarding 6:22
9:17,23 11:5
13:20 48:13
102:6,12
regardless
64:16 87:2
89:13
regards 88:10
region 45:9
46:4,5 90:24
Regional 14:22
regionally 27:14
regular 60:6
79:4
regulations 7:21
49:14 59:7
regulatory
12:25 13:7
15:13 49:11
50:22 70:12
rehab 49:19
rehash 69:24
93:18
reiterate 99:18
related 7:16
26:25 27:9
29:22 32:3
33:10 64:1,7
102:9,23 116:8
relating 7:18
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relationship
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relationships
37:19
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17:2 23:20
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remember
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70:5 115:13
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removing 23:19
repair 36:11
50:10
repaired 36:13
repairs 36:2
49:22
repeated
104:25
repeating 24:11
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replace 22:8,8
49:20,25
50:14
replacing 53:22
62:9
report 8:8,11,14
9:5 40:16
94:2,9 95:8
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
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96:9 97:2,8
98:22 100:2,9
100:18 101:5
101:24 102:5
102:17 109:15
109:16,17
110:24
Reporter 3:8
4:21 116:1,4,17
reports 70:3
95:20 104:9
represent 42:1
representative
44:1 45:10
46:4 65:5
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26:20
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18:15,17 19:4,9
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16:23
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rest 79:15
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result 23:25
54:2 55:12
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54:4 100:24
102:25 103:16
103:23 104:1
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retire 35:25
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17:15,25 23:4
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72:16 76:16
77:25 78:24
78:25 79:15
79:20 80:7,7
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23:1 92:13
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51:23 52:8,13
52:24 53:5,17
58:23,24 60:1
61:14
rivers 22:19
road 31:19,19
roads 22:25
77:15
roadways 15:5
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role 5:7
roll 6:15
roof 77:14
roofs 22:4
rooftops 17:5
92:23,24
room 1:14 3:6
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rooms 85:12
roughly 27:2
rounds 20:15
routinely 114:17
rubber 77:21
rule 50:9
rules 8:1 9:14
ruling 18:9
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rulings 18:3
run 17:8 22:18
23:20 79:13
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24:6
runs 78:23
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S
S 5:1 12:6,9,15
13:10,13,18
sales 29:7 81:2
sanitary 31:12
satisfactory
109:4
satisfying 55:13
savings 23:16
35:23 55:3
56:15,16
saw 22:5 49:7
saying 52:18
96:12 114:25
115:2
says 52:24
scenario 20:24
schedule 24:23
50:5 56:20
63:4,6 65:24
108:19 113:11
scheduled
24:24 25:2
49:3 54:7
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5:7,9,12,14,17
5:20,24 6:1,4
6:6,8 28:17,18
29:13 33:14,15
34:4 63:11,12
63:25 64:20
65:7 81:20
82:21 84:25
85:1 86:7 87:9
110:3,19 111:2
112:5 113:23
score 96:17,18
96:25
script 66:8
second 51:24
52:9 66:24
96:6 112:24
113:5
seconded 113:1
114:23
Secretary 4:6
Section 97:7
98:21 100:13
101:5,23
102:12
sections 100:17
see 14:1,12 15:3
15:22 19:12
26:23 28:7,12
36:9,10,12
41:18 47:21
51:24 52:25
53:8 56:13,15
58:16 59:3
60:3,7 61:11,18
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
65:5 66:25
77:7 79:9
83:13 86:3
92:22,22
seeing 10:12
18:12 28:1
seen 10:21 27:1
31:15 33:25
54:24 64:13
selecting 46:9
selection 45:11
45:20
send 21:21
80:17 81:13
82:14
Senior 44:20
sense 16:3
57:23 79:25
sensitive 24:4
sent 81:1
separate 11:16
11:17,18
separately
27:19 105:15
serious 35:9
42:23
seriously 46:8
serve 6:13 23:3
served 73:11,12
serves 53:9
service 15:13
21:10,14 25:16
54:15 59:20
73:14,21 74:14
83:13
serviced 73:25
74:23
services 4:22
7:16 13:1
44:20 69:15
session 5:8
9:15 43:16
86:14 106:6
107:3,23
108:2,6,7,20
111:5 114:10,16
sessions 9:12
9:12 107:13
109:24 113:24
set 11:16,17 13:16
54:13
setting 8:25 9:6
68:21
seven 11:24
severe 35:8
sewage 12:1
sewer 1:9 3:2,6
4:12 6:12 7:15
12:3,10,17,18
13:12 31:13
35:14,19 49:14
51:21,22 53:13
70:15 73:16
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12:18
share 30:3 41:6
shared 30:9
31:17 32:9
33:1,5 63:16
89:17,18
sharing 103:13
shed 61:8
sheds 35:23
sheet 10:6,12
shifted 61:2
shifting 57:16
57:23
shook 38:21
short 43:14
shows 72:24
85:4
side 11:24 12:25
40:23,24 41:6
42:8 54:5
59:4 61:2,3,11
sidewalk 77:22
77:23 78:1,1,2
78:4,5,6
sidewalks 17:6
22:25 92:8,10
sign 26:7
signed 10:6
35:1 36:18,20
37:2 49:12,16
49:17 50:4,22
57:1
significant 48:8
49:18 54:25
60:3
signify 114:25
signing 26:6
similar 32:14,16
53:5 62:18
83:3
similarly 102:10
simple 79:13
simply 21:3,7
22:3 53:18
97:16
single 16:8 19:4
20:24 55:21
55:25
sir 87:21 112:7
sits 16:1
situation 24:8
80:2
situations 15:11
22:21
six 11:14
six-53:1
size 15:20 16:3
24:3 102:23
103:7
skip 67:3
skipped 67:1
slightly 53:9,14
slope 79:17
sludge 48:18,21
48:24 49:14
small 85:14
smaller 14:25
14:25
soak 17:8 22:9
soil 35:8 38:6,8
38:10 39:12
77:11,24,25
solicitation
45:13
solids 48:14
50:19
solutions 15:6,8
solve 84:22
90:23
somebody 22:6
30:24 78:4
somewhat
25:10 64:1
65:4 83:3
son-in-law
36:25
soon 54:9 61:19
62:13
sorry 39:22
40:2 56:24
66:4 98:6,12
sorts 78:15
sounds 114:2
source 12:16
29:5 69:14
81:8,12
sources 12:22
13:14 45:14
84:7
south 60:1 61:3
64:4,6,8 65:1
southern 57:19
spaces 92:18
speak 10:5
25:25 40:12
special 6:18
specific 11:3,5
49:15 84:19
specifically 13:4
33:19,20 61:6
64:3 69:1
85:3
spend 76:23
79:23
spending 14:3
76:25 88:23
spent 11:20
14:10 50:10
spin 26:10
spoke 65:20
65:20 67:11
spot 87:5
spots 45:18,21
sprawl 42:4
spreadsheet
13:25 14:1
square 11:22
18:16,18 19:14
19:19,24 20:1
20:9,13 22:15
23:10 77:19
77:20 92:7
St 1:9,15 3:2,6,7
4:12,23 6:12
6:17,17 35:13
40:25 44:19
44:20,21,23
45:2 58:9
59:24 60:23
64:2,4 73:12
74:1,3,11 76:14
81:3,4,7 88:9
89:3
stacks 62:20
staff 8:17 25:22
27:7 28:11
29:24 58:6
71:21 92:1
93:7
stage 48:20
staging 45:15
Stand 43:13
standard 24:5
standards 23:13
49:11 71:3
standpoint
99:21 113:20
start 5:4 15:21
20:20 25:12
25:13 49:4
50:15 52:2,4
61:17,19 83:7
87:1 114:4,12
115:13,15
started 22:6
27:6 52:22
56:12 87:25
105:5
starting 20:23
48:25 50:6
52:4 66:16
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
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73:22 105:8
starts 52:25
state 3:8 7:20
11:12 18:3
47:19 60:9
63:6,8 84:8,18
107:10,12 112:9
116:4
statement 7:11
63:18 68:10,14
93:10 98:22
99:15 102:6,9
102:11
statements 2:5
55:18 68:10
87:4 93:23
94:15 95:19
95:23 96:2
97:19
States 12:3
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status 12:4,20
statute 80:14
81:23,25 97:7
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Statutes 102:13
statutory 7:13
102:2
stay 107:7
stays 25:10
Stein 4:9 6:2,3
29:15,16 55:13
62:2,4,7
step 28:5,6
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Steve 4:9
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24:18
stopped 87:25
storage 51:23
52:14
store 23:14
storm 12:2,8,10
12:17,17,18
13:12 16:1
70:14 81:7
stormwater 1:11
3:3 5:6 6:23
7:3 10:25 11:1
11:18,21,22
12:4,13,22,25
13:6,8,14,19
15:14 16:5,11,12
16:15 17:24
21:14 22:22
23:3,17 26:17
26:24 29:7,10
30:2,4 31:10
31:18 32:10
33:7,19,21,24
33:24 34:3,9
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41:17,20 53:18
54:10 58:7,12
58:14 63:15
69:6,12,15
70:8,11 73:1
76:2,17,24,25
81:21,22,24
83:5,18 84:9
89:1 90:21
91:8,9,18
101:17 102:7
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14:20,21
streams 13:2
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street 1:14 3:6
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streets 22:25
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strong 88:8
structure 28:20
70:17,18,19,22
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70:24
Stump 4:16
39:20,22,25
40:5 44:4
46:20,21,22
66:4,5,7,11,14
66:18,25
67:15,19 80:11
80:13 81:10,13
81:16 82:2,13
82:15 86:17,19
87:23 98:11,17
98:20 99:8,14
99:16,18
104:16,17,22
105:13 106:5
107:5,16,19
108:4 109:7,9
110:9,21 111:4
111:10,15 113:12
114:1 115:11
sub-watershed
83:15
subdivisions
36:1,2,7
subissues
103:3
subject 9:19
16:10 37:15
75:25 90:4
submit 8:3 40:3
55:22 66:11
80:17 82:5
114:8
submitted 9:2,4
9:19 24:13,20
54:20 57:1
67:16 68:24
70:3
submitting 8:23
32:18 56:17
subsequent
43:7 110:2
subset 96:22
sufficient 13:6
103:5
suggest 43:11
90:24 107:1,2
108:12,18,24
suggested 96:8
101:12
suggesting
97:14
suggestion
39:4 82:25
114:14
suggests 97:9
summarize
10:16 108:25
summarized
100:1
summarizing
100:3
summate 60:5
summer 72:15
72:19
Sunshine 106:7
107:11
supplemental
111:8
support 32:19
41:21 42:8,12
69:21 71:7
94:17
supported
84:19 94:20
96:5
supportive
89:24,25
supports 71:9
97:9 98:23
supposedly
41:18
Supreme 18:3,4
sure 26:10,18
27:7,25 33:12
34:5 39:4
44:16 55:12
57:17 76:10,15
87:24 88:1,23
89:11 90:6
111:19
surface 17:7
31:22 58:13
78:7,14,23
surfaces 77:16
77:16 88:11
89:10,22
surprised 94:15
surrebuttal
94:8
surrounding
99:7
Susan 4:13
68:18 75:9
81:16
suspect 56:17
76:24
swimming 73:18
Switching
75:25
system 12:3,10
12:13,17,18
13:12 19:5
49:10 53:14
58:14 62:15
73:17 86:5,6
96:10,12,14,15
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table 87:16 90:7
take 5:7 12:24
20:14 22:1
23:18 24:7
34:17 41:17,23
42:22 43:12
51:14,19 58:15
73:20 79:11
81:18 82:3
85:23 105:23
115:7
taken 3:3 23:10
32:6 43:14
69:12 83:10
96:2,11 97:11
97:16 116:5,9
takes 46:8
talk 10:25 11:1,7
25:21 87:6,19
100:5 105:15
106:17 110:16
talked 37:12
41:5 58:3 73:6
talking 38:19
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
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ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
45:25 56:6
63:20 77:9
84:13
target 16:19
task 68:23
tax 6:23 7:3
12:23,24 13:3
13:9,9 29:7
34:9 36:17
37:23 38:16
40:22 41:22
70:12,13 76:2
76:5,17 80:23
81:2,8,21,22
81:24 90:21
Tax-exempt
16:10
taxes 40:17,19
42:19
taxpayer 42:8
taxpayers 9:17
teacher 40:14
team 55:8
109:21
technical 8:19
9:21 24:16
57:4 62:14,20
69:21 70:1
75:14 97:6
technically
113:13
technologies
49:19
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49:25 62:11
telephone
46:12
tell 51:1 55:8
114:3
ten 17:23 22:5
59:12 79:10
84:10
ten-minute
107:4
ten-year 53:1
terms 30:21
38:6 78:17
test 79:13
testify 9:17
testimony 8:17
8:23 9:1,7,18
9:24 24:19
37:14 43:11
69:19 73:4
92:5 94:8,20
94:21 95:10,13
thank 5:9 6:8,9
10:14,19,20
26:3,8,14
29:13 33:11
34:4,22,25
37:7,11 39:15
39:18 40:6,7,8
40:11 42:14,24
43:3,4,8 44:2
45:4,24 46:10
49:13 57:6
63:10,25 65:11
65:11,13 66:1
67:12 68:3,15
68:20 71:14,18
82:6,12 84:2
86:7 88:6
90:9 91:12
93:5,8,8,14,15
97:25 99:8,11
99:16 104:15
109:7,7
thanking 99:19
thanks 43:10
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thereon 10:8
thereto 116:11
thing 26:21
56:25 57:15
61:18 78:13
83:21 85:22
85:25 89:21
93:25,25
94:22 98:7
111:1
things 10:23
15:23 17:5
18:8 22:24
24:11 25:21
39:3 48:15
52:6,16 54:23
59:1 70:6
74:17,22 79:18
85:10 88:7
90:1 93:19,19
93:21 94:1
100:5 104:4
111:17
think 26:21
27:22 28:6
31:14 33:3,8,9
33:22 34:11
38:17 39:7,14
41:16,22,25
42:3,6 43:24
44:7 45:25
48:18,18 50:16
57:2,14 58:2,8
60:9,15 63:20
64:13 73:13
75:18 76:11,15
79:3,14,19,22
80:6 82:8
83:5 84:12
85:15 86:19
86:23 88:17
88:21 89:10
89:22 90:1,7
91:19 92:4,11
92:20 95:17
97:20 99:2
104:23 105:25
106:2,12 107:2
107:10 108:16
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110:23 111:17
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26:14,15 28:16
28:23 29:16
29:20 30:12
31:2,20 32:12
33:3,8,12,20
34:5,10,24
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thought 28:3
32:9,12,22
56:2 83:4
90:15 114:18
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thoughts 86:21
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15:4,4,5
three 11:14,14
21:24 40:19
52:10 70:10
94:1 100:16
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tieing 91:17
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till 46:16 50:14
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15:18 16:16,20
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99:22 102:2,3
105:16 106:13
106:18 108:21
110:1 111:23
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timeline 24:10
times 20:16
31:8 33:23
35:11 36:13
59:12,15 94:2
110:12,13
timing 45:18
tire 77:21
today 9:14 18:8
18:13 26:8
37:12 43:10
64:2,3,19
67:16 80:16
82:2,24 85:7
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24:12 26:3,12
28:15 29:14
30:5 33:13
34:6,15,25
35:4 37:6
39:16,21,24
40:4 42:16,25
43:4,15 44:2,9
44:12 45:4,24
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62:23 63:1,11
65:8,14,18,23
66:1,5,9,13,16
66:21 67:3,12
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80:11,25 82:6
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111:25 112:7,9
112:21,25 113:8
113:21 114:21
115:3,14
told 93:19,20
Tom 5:25
tool 91:20
top 32:21 66:17
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
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topic 59:8 83:4
topics 69:25
103:18 106:16
total 18:19 24:2
74:25
totaling 49:23
Totals 15:19
touched 79:14
town 35:9 37:5
toying 105:4
trail 86:8
trained 47:10
transcript 24:19
98:8
transcripts 9:21
transmitted
13:2 66:19
67:6
transportation
31:21,23,24
31:25 32:2
33:17,21,23
trapped 42:6,7
treated 23:11
35:11,17 36:7
treating 11:25
treatment 11:25
48:11,13,17,19
48:20,25
tree 79:17
tributaries 52:9
true 63:18,19
110:7,8
trust 47:11
trustees 7:2,10
8:9,12 24:25
69:12 100:24
try 15:7 42:9
83:14 100:3
trying 17:13 27:6
30:3 38:24
47:3 60:21
73:15 80:3
Tuesday 115:7
tunnel 51:23
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tunneling 58:17
tunnels 52:3
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turn 26:12 75:8
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twice 14:23
two 11:15 12:22
19:18,21 25:9
31:12 40:18
48:5 59:23
60:2 73:7,13
100:17
type 28:19
32:16 41:11
58:11 59:2
60:17 79:16
80:7 88:3
types 74:17
104:4
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116:7
typical 23:16
79:10
typically 21:20
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ultimate 58:22
ultimately 18:4
25:5
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27:12 36:3
45:7 46:25
48:4 50:8
74:15 89:8
96:15 114:14
understanding
76:11,14 108:5
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undertake 38:1
undertaken
28:23 96:21
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Unfortunately
40:19 66:9
unfunded 16:12
unincorporated
76:7,13
unit 20:8
United 12:3
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units 18:15 20:7
20:25 49:20
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40:15 42:19
update 46:24
47:12 65:12
updated 67:25
75:6 95:6
upfront 23:14
upkeep 36:1
upper 12:21
52:13
urban 42:4
urge 104:10
usage 71:24
72:1,4,7 73:15
74:25 85:16
use 13:21 48:20
53:24 79:21
83:21 96:17
98:23 102:20
102:21
useful 81:11
uses 74:9
usually 105:5
110:12,17
utilities 11:15
utility 11:11,16,18
V
vacant 41:17
valid 9:20
valuation 12:23
value 77:11
values 78:3
variation 73:8
variations 18:25
various 26:20
37:16
versus 28:8
64:6 65:1
77:10,13 80:6
89:22
Vice 4:5
view 92:21 93:4
97:21 108:15
violation 7:17
volume 53:19
53:24 74:25
volumes 53:17
58:21 75:13
vote 18:6 25:8
25:11,15 35:13
35:20 69:13
114:9
voted-on 17:25
voter 28:6
voter-approved
11:13
voters 6:17 28:7
35:21 36:8,14
36:16,17 44:23
64:22
votes 25:15
voting 14:13
W
wait 50:14 87:1
87:11
want 22:8
25:23 28:7
32:25 38:12
38:12 42:7
48:1 51:14
57:3 59:9
63:2 66:14
69:14 73:17,18
73:19 79:22
86:23,25 87:7
87:23 93:21
94:1,6 97:1,10
97:14 99:5
100:4,5 102:9
102:11 104:10
105:16 106:9
106:10,17,17
106:23 108:11
109:25 110:1
111:19,20
wanted 43:20
60:13 90:6
92:6 94:11,24
96:6 98:7,20
111:12
wanting 41:5
wants 35:20
69:9
ward 41:1,2,7,14
41:19
washed 31:13
washing 73:17
wasn't 51:9
wastewater
6:23 7:3 11:16
11:20,20,24
21:6,8,10,15,16
21:19 26:23
31:11 38:9
54:6,11,15,19
54:21 55:4
56:13,20 58:4
58:7,13 71:25
72:7 75:12,18
83:5,19 85:3
85:21,24 86:9
water 16:1 17:7
17:13 22:9
58:21,23
71:24 72:4
73:13,16 74:4
74:9,20,21,24
78:23 79:11
81:7 85:15
89:2
watering 73:19
watershed
27:19,20 53:6
53:10 61:15
83:7,8,16
watersheds
27:21 83:1,6,9
83:10
way 15:25 16:6
16:7 17:14 18:11
25:10 27:22
35:17 38:19
47:10 52:11
60:9 63:20
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
77:5 79:15
81:25 82:1
84:1 85:20,21
86:5,18 99:6
114:13
ways 60:19
we'll 19:12 23:21
25:13 28:12
43:16 45:16
46:16 73:22
79:10 84:14,14
85:25 96:24
102:8,10
105:10
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15:9 17:3,8,13
18:7,7,14 19:7
20:9 21:17
24:7 29:23
38:7 42:21
47:20 53:6,15
54:7,9 55:23
56:6,10,11
57:23 58:9,17
59:21 60:21
63:19 73:15
74:19 78:8
80:3,15 83:12
84:16,23
88:16,23 89:6
89:7,11,12,18
89:19,23,24
92:11 96:12
113:12
we've 12:5
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30:14 31:3
32:6 34:12
36:21 37:12
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63:21 73:4
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88:12 90:4
96:11,14 97:11
105:5 107:12
110:4,5,24
113:21
website 13:19
13:23 24:17
25:19
week 47:15
93:19
weeks 92:5
welcome 40:10
went 13:19 17:23
48:22 49:2
50:9 51:7 67:1
75:21,22
weren't 62:5
83:17
west 12:11,12
wide 77:17
Wildwood
26:16,18 28:19
28:22 29:17
30:9,24,25
32:25 41:5
winter 73:15,20
74:24
wish 9:10 10:11
67:13 101:17
102:4,24
103:4,7,8,11
103:20,25
wishing 10:5
witnesses 37:16
Women 44:23
wonderful 37:6
work 13:22
32:10 34:1
57:20 58:9,11
58:17 60:17
60:24 61:8
63:17,22 64:5
64:12 70:24
89:24
worked 30:17
42:10 84:4
working 29:24
60:25
works 71:1
worried 59:21
worry 113:18
worthwhile
82:8 87:4
wouldn't 80:20
89:17
wrap 111:23
Wright 37:3
wrong 72:14
96:13 114:3
X
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yards 73:19
yeah 39:14
45:12 56:24
58:2 59:10
72:14 77:5
81:15 92:20
105:14 114:13
year 16:5,9
18:22 19:20
20:22 21:1
25:1,14 41:1,3
45:7,21 56:5,9
73:23 77:25
years 16:14
17:23 22:5
23:17 29:6
30:16 31:2
35:16 36:19
36:20,21,23
40:14 42:10
50:12,18 51:25
51:25 52:2,12
52:15,16,17,20
52:21 55:17
55:25 56:4,8
59:7 63:22,23
79:10 84:10
86:4 95:5
yesterday
93:20,22
94:3,23 95:9
100:2 104:10
you-all 31:8
Z
zero 13:16
Ziegler 4:10 6:6
6:7 112:24
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0
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1
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1.3 11:22
1.42 19:16
1/2 56:5
10 75:21
10-cent 13:9
70:13
10,000 12:2
20:13,14
10:10 43:12,13
100 12:23 53:5
53:10 114:21
104 2:6
109 1:14 3:7
10th 8:15 24:25
105:10 106:12
106:19 108:21
109:2,22
111:23 112:4,12
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114:4 115:8
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15 24:2 45:16,17
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15,000 41:1
16 21:2 51:25
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17th 8:20
18 45:16 72:15
19 45:17
1954 6:18
1979 13:4
1989 12:13
1st 8:12
2
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2,000 19:14
2,001 19:18
2,600 18:18
20:8,14 22:15
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21:20,22
22:17 79:23
20 9:13 21:11
36:19 53:14
56:7 61:13
63:21
200 19:14
2000 6:20
2008 34:11
2010 63:21
95:6
2011 81:5
2016 12:6
2017 55:5
75:23
2018 1:11,13 3:2
3:4 5:4,6 8:1,8
8:12,15,16,20
8:21,21 9:3,4
9:13 24:14
44:17 67:5
68:25
2019 25:8,11
54:8 56:21
2020 20:21
25:13 54:14
55:5 72:14,21
72:24 75:23
2021 20:23
50:16 51:10
52:4 54:8
2024 54:9,18
55:16 56:17
2026 49:4 50:6
2018 STORMWATER RATE CHANGE PROCEEDINGS 6/29/2018
www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
50:14 51:10
52:5
204.70 98:21
204.700 97:8
99:7 102:12
20th 37:5
21 56:14,15
21st 9:2 40:25
41:2
23 13:13 52:20
63:22
2350 1:14 3:6
24 56:14,16
107:25
26 2:3
26th 7:25 8:8
8:16 24:14
68:25
27 16:9 19:20
27th 66:14,18
67:5
28 52:21 63:23
28th 9:4
29 1:13 51:25
29th 3:4 5:4
3
3 24:3
3-4 72:23
3,600 19:19
3,601 19:24
3.74 19:25
3.85 20:15
30 14:4,5,6,23
16:4,14 18:22
21:1,3 22:23
23:6 25:14
36:19 40:14
42:10
314)644-2191
4:24
35 23:25 24:9
350 11:25
360 49:5 50:6
50:16,18
4
4 20:16,16
4.7 63:20
4:55 109:12
40 14:5 36:19
36:22
400 59:14
45 8:11
46 2:4
48 34:12 72:12
72:16
49 81:6
4th 8:20
5
5 56:9
50 23:22 49:23
50:10 55:16
56:3 72:13
50-some 94:5
500 15:17,18
23:10 27:2
59:14
52 34:12
520 11:22
54 72:18
56 41:2
562 15:19
6
6,000 19:24
20:1
6.31 72:25
6.84 20:2
60 54:14 72:21
62 41:12
63101 4:23
63103 1:15 3:7
66 57:2,4
66.75 72:25
67 13:17,22 14:8
14:10 64:14
65:3
68 2:5
7
7.040 100:13
101:5
7.270 100:13
101:23
7.75 21:23
70 22:22
70s 49:2
711 4:23
73 65:22 67:11
74 67:21,22
7th 6:19 8:21
8
8 115:8
8:00 115:13,15
80s 49:3
88 11:23
8th 9:13
9
9 5:4 20:18
9:00 3:4 5:2
90 54:19 55:15
9th 6:18