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Exhibit MSD 69 - Transcript of Technical Conference for District Testimony - April 9, 2019 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 313 1 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT 2 TECHNICAL CONFERENCE FOR DISTRICT TESTIMONY 3 & RATE SETTING DOCUMENTS 4 5 6 7 8 MEETING 9 Volume II 10 11 APRIL 9, 2019 12 13 14 15 16 17 REPORTED BY: 18 19 REBECCA L. TUGGLE, CCR, RPR, CSR 20 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 21 711 N. 11TH STREET 22 ST. LOUIS, MO 63101 23 (314) 644-2191 24 25 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 314 1 I N D E X 2 3 RICHARD L. UNVERFERTH, P.E.: Questions by Ms. Jones 319 4 Questions by Mr. Malone 346 Questions by Commissioner Stein 358 5 Questions by Commissioner Schoedel 359 Questions by Commissioner Brockmann 362 6 Questions by Commissioner Palans 368 Questions by Commissioner Goss 388 7 Questions by Commissioner Toenjes 398 Questions by Commissioner Schoedel 402 8 Questions by Commissioner Brockmann 404 9 10 BRET A. BERTHOLD Questions by Ms. Jones 406 11 Questions by Mr. Malone 407 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 315 1 APPEARANCES: 2 Brian J. Malone, Attorney At Law 3 Lashly & Baer, P.C. 714 Locust Street 4 St. Louis, MO 63101 (314) 621-2939 5 bmalone@lashlybaer.com FOR: The Rate Commission. 6 Kamilah Jones, Attorney At Law 7 Bryan Cave LLP One Metropolitan Square 8 211 North Broadway, Suite 3600 St. Louis, MO 63102 9 (314) 259-2050 kami.jones@bclplaw.com 10 FOR: Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers. 11 Susan M. Myers, General Counsel 12 Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer district 2350 Market Street 13 St. Louis, MO 63103 (314) 768-6209 14 smyers@stlmsd.com FOR: Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer 15 District 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 316 1 APPEARANCES CONTINUED 2 3 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: 4 5 Mickey Croyle 6 Tom Ratzki (via telephone) 7 John L. Stein (Jack) 8 Paul Brockmann 9 Russell Hawes (Acting Chair) 10 Leonard Toenjes (via telephone & in person) 11 Mark Schoedel 12 Steve Mahfood 13 Chan Mahanta 14 Brad Goss 15 Gerald Beckmann (via telephone) 16 Lloyd Palans 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 317 1 PROCEEDINGS BEGAN AT 1:00 P.M. 2 COMMISSIONER HAWES: It's 1:00 o'clock. We 3 call the meeting of the Rate Commission of the 4 Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District to order. This 5 is 2019 Wastewater Rate Change proceeding. 6 Mr. Schoedel, if you could please call the 7 roll. 8 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Jerry Beckmann? 9 COMMISSIONER BECKMANN: Present. 10 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: This is Len Toenjes. 11 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Brandy Bowdry? 12 Paul Brockmann? 13 COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: Here. 14 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Don Bresnan? 15 Mickey Croyle? 16 COMMISSIONER CROYLE: Present. 17 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Brad Goss? 18 Russell Hawes? 19 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Here. 20 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Chan Mahanta? 21 COMMISSIONER MAHANTA: Here. 22 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Steven Mahfood? 23 COMMISSIONER MAHFOOD: Here. 24 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Lloyd Palans? 25 COMMISSIONER PALANS: Here. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 318 1 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Tom Ratzki? 2 COMMISSIONER RATZKI: Here. 3 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Mark Schoedel 4 present. 5 Jack Stein? 6 COMMISSIONER STEIN: Present. 7 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Leonard Toenjes? 8 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: On the phone. 9 COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: Thank you. 10 Paul Ziegler? 11 Mr. Chairman, we have a quorum. 12 COMMISSIONER HAWES: All right. Thank you 13 very much, Mr. Schoedel. 14 Mr. Malone, are there any procedural matters 15 to bring to the floor here? 16 MR. MALONE: No. Lisa Stump wasn't able to 17 be here today. She's feeling under the weather. So 18 I'll be in the role of counsel today. 19 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Thank you, Mr. Malone. 20 With no further procedural matters, 21 Ms. Myers, would you like to name your witness? 22 MS. MYERS: Yes. Our witness starting today 23 is Rich Unverferth, the director of engineering. 24 COMMISSIONER HAWES: All right. Thank you. 25 (The witness was duly sworn.) MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 319 1 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Very good. 2 Does any member of the Rate Commission have 3 questions for Mr. Unverferth at this time? 4 Hearing none, Mr. Neuschafer is not here. 5 And we've got -- I cannot remember your name. 6 MS. JONES: Kami Jones. 7 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Ms. Jones, do you have 8 any questions on behalf of the Missouri Industrial 9 Consumers? 10 MS. JONES: Yes, I do. 11 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Thank you. Come on up. 12 EXAMINATION 13 BY MS. JONES: 14 Q Good afternoon. 15 A Good afternoon. 16 Q I just wanted to start off by asking about 17 the estimated CIRP. I see in your testimony that you 18 stated that the next four-year cycle rate period is 19 going to be about an estimated cost of 1.6 billion; is 20 that correct? 21 A That is correct. 22 Q Could you tell me a little bit about the 23 breakdown of these costs? 24 A Yes. I'm just going to utilize my -- the 25 rate proposal itself. The total cost of the CIRP is MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 320 1 about $1.6 billion. I apologize if I say "million" 2 every once in a while. And it's broken into four 3 years and broken into several categories of projects. 4 We have asset management capacity related. We have 5 asset management renewal. We have city shed projects, 6 combined sewer overflow projects. We have 7 district-wide projects. We have other projects. We 8 have sanitary sewer overflow projects, and we have 9 projects associated with the treatment plant. 10 If you break it down, basically in major 11 categories, we have consent decree projects, projects 12 that are not related to consent decree but are 13 regulatory required, and then we have projects that -- 14 our projects stop are more asset management, just 15 strictly asset management related due to the wear and 16 tear of those systems. 17 I'm on page 4-15 and 4-16 of the rate 18 proposal. We did provide some appendix which are -- 19 actually, I take that back. I think we provided in 20 the first discovery request a breakdown of obviously 21 the total CIRP of 1.6, but then we pulled out and 22 created a spreadsheet for the regulatory required 23 projects outside the consent decree. That was 24 approximately 340 million. And then there were some 25 projects that we're doing to our pump stations along MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 321 1 the riverfront flood wall pump stations which was 2 approximately 14 million. Which I think ends up being 3 about approximately 1.2 of that 1.58 billion is 4 consent decree related. 5 Q Thank you. When did MSD determine what 6 these costs were going to be? 7 A For the four-year rate cycle, we put 8 together the plan of the projects that we have over 9 the four years and took those and combined them. 10 They've been developed as far back as 2012 when we 11 developed the master plan for the SSO master plan, the 12 CSO master plan. And then during the last -- over the 13 last two fiscal years, we've been refining the scopes 14 of those projects and defining the -- updating the 15 costs. So the costs are generally within the last 16 year before they're put into the four-year rate cycle. 17 Q How did MSD go about determining these cost 18 estimates? 19 A Our cost estimates are based on historical 20 costs the district typically sees for its projects. 21 And I'm speaking mostly of the sewer-type projects and 22 the rehabilitation projects. If it's a specific 23 project, we use industry standards or we have our 24 consultant and we've hired -- do a specific cost 25 estimate. I'm speaking more on tunnel or treatment MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 322 1 plant type work based on what is seen around the 2 country for this type of work. Obviously we don't do 3 some of this work every year so we have to use best 4 engineering practices for developing those estimates. 5 Q So for the more specific projects, just to 6 make sure I understand, how would MSD determine like 7 the consent decree process -- projects -- 8 A Well -- 9 Q -- and process events for those? 10 A Generally, most of the concept decree 11 projects that we're working on right now are combined 12 sewer overflow or separate sewer overflow are based on 13 historic prices that we've seen for the last several 14 years, the unit prices for pipe or excavation that we 15 see in the St. Louis region on bids that we see -- 16 receive, and we update those unit prices and make 17 adjustments based on the prices we see. 18 Q What about for the regulatory projects? 19 A The regulatory projects -- generally the one 20 that we have in there now for the incinerator, which 21 is the largest, our consultants utilized information 22 available for similar type projects around the 23 country. 24 Q Okay. For the incinerator projects, I 25 noticed that the numbers in the proposal, I think on MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 323 1 page 7-92, these budget amounts, I just noticed that 2 the numbers are really round and kind of very rounded 3 off numbers. So I was wondering how that came to be 4 about or what kind of -- the way you put to these 5 round numbers. 6 A There is a study associated with how we 7 arrived at these numbers. I -- I wouldn't be able to 8 sit here today and say how did we come up with these 9 exactly. But, again, we used -- we developed the 10 assessment based on the information that we had 11 available for similar type facilities at other 12 locations. That's something -- I'm sure we could 13 provide that study. 14 Q What is the confidence level in these 15 estimates? 16 A Again, they're -- again, they're 17 predesigned. So, in other words, we're basing it on 18 the type of work we're planning on doing. So if you 19 you're looking at a conceptual level cost estimate, I 20 would think you're probably in the plus or minus 21 30 percent range. And then as you go into a 22 preliminary design work, you actually have a siting of 23 the facility, then obviously that price would -- or 24 that level of acceptability would go down. 25 Q When we spoke to Brian, he pointed out that MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 324 1 for the last four-year period, capital costs were 2 lower than what was anticipated. Could you explain 3 why that was? 4 A We have consistently seen lower bids on 5 projects, and there were at least two major tunnel 6 projects that came in significantly under what we had 7 estimate. It's not always easy to see why those 8 projects came in under estimate. 9 We know on the rehabilitation project, which 10 is a significant amount of the work that we've done, 11 which is the lining work, we're very fortunate to have 12 the two -- I'll call them world leaders, at least U.S. 13 leaders in that industry that are actually 14 headquartered here in St. Louis. They don't necessary 15 like to lose to each other and they like to keep their 16 people local. So we've seen specifically good prices 17 in that arena to bring down those costs. 18 On the open-cut construction site, we 19 continue to see good prices, good competition. When 20 we first started the consent decree, we weren't seeing 21 the number of bids that we saw. And I'm speaking back 22 in 2012 and '13. Once the industry saw the type of 23 work and the consistency of the work that we had 24 coming out and planning to bring out, they geared 25 themselves up, and so we started then seeing anywhere MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 325 1 from five to six to ten bids on projects, which 2 increases the competition, which lowers our prices. 3 Generally, we see our -- our estimates, our 4 engineering estimates, which are probably as close to 5 what we feel the bid is going to be, generally, we are 6 in the middle to the higher end. We aren't always. 7 But then there are cases where it's something that may 8 be more difficult than -- and it would be over our 9 estimate, but not very often. 10 Q Have these lowered costs been accounted for 11 in the current proposal? 12 A We do make adjustments to our unit prices. 13 Again, you're -- you're dealing with preliminary costs 14 so we leave some contingency in there just because we 15 aren't sure if the market could change some. But, 16 generally, we adjust -- we look at our bid items every 17 year, and if there's a certain bid item that we're 18 getting more reasonably, we'll make an adjustment to 19 that. 20 Q I want to point for a second to the third 21 discovery request response. I'm looking at question 4 22 on page 4. 23 A I'm sorry. I've got pages in-between here. 24 Make sure I got the right one. Question 4, page 4? 25 Q Yes. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 326 1 A Okay. Sorry about that. 2 Q You're fine. I'm just reading here that 3 about 471,000,000 was appropriated for projects 4 related to consent decree requirements and about 5 417 million was expended on them. I'm just 6 wondering -- these are kind of conservative numbers. 7 A What you're seeing there is the district, 8 when we make an appropriation, generally we 9 appropriate -- in addition to the actual bid amount, 10 we'll appropriate a contingency of about 3 to 5 11 percent above the bid estimate and that 3 to 5 percent 12 will include like utility relocations that we 13 anticipate and maybe we've identified but we don't 14 actually have the contractor bid on. We have that as 15 an allowance. 16 And the other contingency is the way the 17 district operates. If we would have appropriated just 18 simply the bid amount, every time we -- there was a 19 minor change, we would have to go back to our board to 20 appropriate it. So we appropriated an additional 21 contingency amount to allow for things, unforeseen 22 things. But then, at the same time, we could end up 23 doing less on the project. 24 And I will say over the last four years, 25 particularly on the rehab -- excuse me -- the MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 327 1 rehabilitation, the CIPP side, we found this, 2 generally the final cost for that project is even 3 coming in under the bid. And that comes from when we 4 go out to the system to line a project or line a 5 sewer, something has changed where we pull that part 6 of out there, all the project, or it happened to have 7 already been lined and wasn't updated in our database. 8 So that particular type of project, we have -- we did 9 see some reduction. 10 As our databases get updated for -- with all 11 the lining that we've done for the last 15, 20 years, 12 we're seeing less of that now than we did, say, in 13 this last rate cycle. 14 Q Okay. Again, keeping in mind that you need 15 a buffer for changes to occur and that some projects 16 you're able to get lower bids on, how do we know that 17 the estimates, even with those in mind, aren't too 18 conservative of estimates? 19 A Again, like I said, we use the historical 20 information that we have in order to adjust those unit 21 prices. Not every job is the same so there are some 22 complexities. Some jobs we have a unit price, you 23 know, that we've seen, but it could be a little more 24 complicated. We're going to see a higher unit price. 25 So it's a give-and-take. I mean, we don't -- we try MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 328 1 to get as close as we can on our estimates. 2 Q Okay. I'm turning now to your written 3 testimony. I'm looking at question 7 on page 2. 4 A Okay. 5 Q You state here that the CIRP needed to 6 provide project identification. Aren't the projects 7 already identified in either the consent decree or 8 stipulated by regulatory requirements? 9 A There -- well, from a regulatory perspective 10 there, we have treatment plant assets, seven treatment 11 plants. We have a system out there that -- that we're 12 doing inspections on both at the plants and physical 13 inspections of our linear assets that are part of the 14 consent decree. But then those -- those will bring up 15 new projects. Like if we find an existing pipe out 16 there in poor condition, then that -- so that's why 17 it's considered an identification of process. 18 So, in other words, we have the defined, 19 let's say SSO plans. We have the defined CSO plans 20 and then we have the projects associated with that. 21 But continuously inspecting and investigating our 22 systems to identify something that could be of issue 23 to us and program that as well. So there are other 24 projects. 25 Q Okay. Since there could be other projects MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 329 1 that come up, like you said, a pipe that's in need of 2 repair or something along those lines, does that mean 3 that the size and scope of the CIRP could change? 4 A Typically, what we've done is when we 5 developed the consent decree and the overall financial 6 model back in 2012 when we had, for the most part, 7 defined what the SSO program might look like and the 8 CSO program, we did the ultimate financial model. We 9 had programmed in approximately 10 percent of the 10 overall budget, assuming a $250 million CIRP, we 11 identified about 25 million to do asset upkeep. We 12 knew we were going to be doing a lot of inspection of 13 our systems. Our treatment plants are aging. So we 14 identified and we set that up as an annual amount. In 15 other words, we try to budget to that amount and try 16 not to exceed it. 17 There are instances that we identified 18 things that could go above that amount, but for the -- 19 at least for the first six, seven years of the consent 20 decree, we've stayed within that number. We've 21 prioritized the work outside of the consent decree to 22 stay within that budget amount to the best that we 23 could, understanding that things could arise that we 24 weren't planning for. 25 Q Okay. Just to make sure I understand. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 330 1 A Okay. 2 Q So there's money allotted in the CIRP for 3 these types of unexpected projects already? 4 A I don't know that I would call it 5 "unexpected." They -- we know, if you're out there 6 looking at investigating and looking at hundreds of 7 miles of sewer, if you're doing CCTV inspections, you 8 know that you're going to identify repair work. 9 You're going to identify lining work that's not part 10 of the overall CD program, and those are monies that 11 we set aside that are part of that 25. We call them 12 infrastructure repair projects. 13 If you look in the CIRP, we identify 14 infrastructure repair projects on the collection 15 system. Those are to fix -- if we have a collapsed 16 sewer, we have to get in there to fix it. That 17 includes lining of sewers that have poor ratings when 18 we do our CCTV. And we have infrastructure repair at 19 the treatment plants for projects that don't rise to 20 the level of a capital improvement project. 21 And -- and, again, everything we do 22 essentially rolls back to the CD because the CD has a 23 compliance that we look at our sewers. It says we 24 must rehabilitate our sewers. And at the treatment 25 plants, if we don't do the rehabilitation or the MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 331 1 repairs to the treatment plants, obviously we could 2 have a failure and not meet compliance from a 3 regulatory standpoint. So that's why you'll see those 4 dollars always either related to the consent decree or 5 to the regulatory requirement. 6 Q Gotcha. So it would only go outside the 7 scope of what is already allotted in the CIRP if it's 8 something -- 9 A Correct. If it's a larger project, it would 10 be identified, which is kind of what we've done. 11 We've got some larger wastewater treatment plant 12 projects in this next four-year rate cycle that were 13 identified, where I talked a little bit. 14 Over the last four years, we've developed an 15 asset management prioritization system that looks at 16 doing condition assessment on our plants and tells us 17 that -- it helps us prioritize what we need to do over 18 the next four years. 19 Q Thank you. I'm looking now at your 20 testimony, question 15, the bottom of page 4. 21 A Okay. 22 Q Here you state that the largest components 23 of this CIRP over this period will be capital 24 investment related to capacity improvements and the 25 wastewater system and sewage slush incineration. I'm MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 332 1 just wondering about -- I guess first about the sewage 2 sludge incineration. The regulatory requirements 3 related to the fluidized bed incinerators, I'm 4 wondering how these are related and if you could 5 explain that a little more. 6 A The district at -- there's two major 7 treatment plants, our Bissell and our Lemay treatment 8 plant, currently have sewage sludge incinerators that 9 take the sludge from the treatment process and they 10 burn it and create a byproduct. And obviously 11 they're -- they put off fumes which are regulated by 12 the Clean Air Act. And during -- in 2012, there was a 13 modification. It's called the SSI Rule, Sewage Sludge 14 Incinerator Rule, which put on more stringent 15 requirements for the sewage sludge incinerators. 16 The district, at that time, in response to 17 that, I think we did about 15 -- I can't remember -- 18 $15 million worth of work on the incinerators to meet 19 those new standards. In the meantime, after we did 20 that, then there were some -- even some additional 21 regulatory requirements put on those incinerators. 22 And part of that being is that if -- if you invested 23 in your sewage sludge incinerators to the point to 24 where it's over 50 percent of the value of the 25 incinerator, then you had to do a complete upgrade and MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 333 1 bring those up to new air standards. 2 The district had made those initial repairs 3 and anticipated that we wouldn't need to make any 4 additional repairs till at the time -- say the 2025 to 5 2028 range. We felt like they were operating, but 6 just due to the condition and the age -- they were 7 built back when the original plants were built -- it 8 became obvious to us, it looked like they were not 9 going to make it. 10 The new technology for sewage -- and I'm not 11 a sewage sludge incinerator expert -- 12 Q Neither am I. 13 A -- is a fluidized bed incinerator process. 14 It's a more efficient process that obviously provides 15 better air quality. And we had looked at it back 16 originally when we did the minor improvements and put 17 together some conceptual dollars. 18 When we saw that coming prior to this new 19 rate, we sat down and talked about the reevaluation 20 study that put together the new dollars. We went back 21 and updated those numbers, developed a comprehensive 22 plan to handle all the solids at all of our treatment 23 plants. Because every plant that we had, we had some 24 that was land applied. So we looked at our overall 25 plan for sewage sludge and developed the best solution MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 334 1 to have new incinerators at our Lemay and our Bissell 2 treatment plant and brought those up, and we decided 3 we needed to have that happen sooner. That was going 4 to be on top of one of our major combined sewer 5 overflow tunnels during this next rate cycle. It's 6 about a $700 million tunnel. We saw what that was 7 doing to us financially. And I think Susan alluded to 8 that in her testimony. That's when we went back to 9 the EPA and made adjustments to the CIRP. 10 I hope that answers your question. 11 Q That was very helpful. Thank you. 12 A There's a response in Exhibit 61A from Susan 13 where it kind of gives specifics. Kind of the -- the 14 story that we were -- talked with the EPA about and 15 questioned by. Thank you. 16 Q On the same token, related to the capacity 17 improvements, could you explain that a little more? 18 Is this just the increasability to handle increased 19 capacity or is there a little more to that? 20 A No. The capacity is primarily referring to 21 sanitary system. We refer to those as our SSO 22 projects. And, one, in addition to eliminating the 23 overflows that happen within the system now, in 24 addition to that, the consent decree requires that we 25 ensure our system has the ability to -- to respond to MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 335 1 a rain event. Obviously, it's a sanitary, but there 2 are impacts to the sanitary system during a rain 3 event. That our system can withstand that rain event, 4 it can withstand -- have the capacity to withstand 5 that rain event without either overflowing a 6 manhole -- obviously because we're going to eliminate 7 all the overflows -- or backing up into people's 8 basements. 9 So, essentially, we've modeled the entire 10 sanitary sewer system, created what the impact of a 11 certain rain event, a five-year, 10-year rain event, 12 and determine where our system doesn't have that 13 capacity. And to -- in order to do that, we spent 14 multiple years, from 2004 through 2010, flow-metering 15 our system, inspecting our system, knowing everything 16 we know about it and using hydraulic models to 17 determine what level of capacity, and then we 18 identified where we didn't have that capacity to 19 develop the SSO master plan. 20 Q Could you give me some examples of the types 21 of projects that would fall under this category of 22 capital improvement and making sure that the events 23 for rain -- 24 A The easiest way is if you have a watershed 25 that has a main trunk sewer that goes up through the MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 336 1 watershed where everybody's sanity flows comes down to 2 it, and then it has multiple branches off of it where, 3 you know, different subdivisions are. And what it is, 4 is when you get a rain event, there's impacts of that 5 rain event on that system. 6 In other words, regardless of how we try to 7 keep the stormwater separate, it will come into that 8 system and cause the system to overcharge. And 9 there's two ways that you can address those issues. 10 One -- and we're going at it both ways. One is go to 11 the system and try to find those sources of the 12 stormwater getting in the systems. We refer to that 13 as inflow infiltration, private I&I, which can come in 14 through a downspout connected. A public I&I, which is 15 one of our sewers that's maybe located next to a creek 16 and water seeping in the joints or coming in the top 17 of a lone manhole, things likes that. So we go at 18 that source, which is our I&I projects. 19 And then once that -- that type of work is 20 done, then we monitor the system again. We do 21 post-construction monitoring from that work, and then 22 we identify. Then we, again, do our modeling again 23 and determine where -- whether we up the capacity or 24 not. 25 In a lot of cases, there's an overflow that MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 337 1 exists. So we're monitoring. We're doing 2 flow-monitoring of the system. We're flow-monitoring 3 that overflow; is the overflow still happening or not. 4 So we look at that. 5 And then if we found that are -- we still 6 have enough flows, then we have to increase the size 7 of that sewer. So you have your -- your private I&I 8 projects. You have your public I&I projects. You 9 have post-construction monitoring to determine the 10 extents of where you still have the capacity issues. 11 And we have some instances where that was 12 enough. We were able to take the overflow out. The 13 remaining system is -- is handling that rain event. 14 In other words, our models are telling us that that 15 system now has the capacity. 16 At the end of the consent decree, our entire 17 sanitary sewer system, we have to provide 18 documentation that our system meets, has the capacity 19 assure -- it's called a capacity assurance plan, that 20 all of our system can meet those capacities to a 21 certain level of storm events. Obviously, you're 22 going to have extreme storm events that -- that the 23 system is not going to be able to withstand. 24 I hope that kind of answered your question. 25 Q Yes. I just want to make sure I understand. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 338 1 What -- I don't know if you can even provide this. 2 But what kind -- could you give me examples of what 3 kind of projects fall in under that private and public 4 SSI? 5 A They generally specifically state that. 6 Q Okay. 7 A It will say the name of the sub watershed 8 and it'll call pot -- it'll say -- within the listing 9 will say "Private I&I removal," and then the 10 description will generally say, "Remove inflow sources 11 from 200 houses," and that's a specific project. 12 But what we've done on the public I&I, where 13 we line our sewer system or we do inspections and 14 determine maybe where we have sources and we 15 rehabilitate manholes. We rehabilitate -- what we do 16 is those -- those we generally -- we put in larger 17 areas. In other words, we combine them from -- say, 18 three different small areas, we'll do all that rehab 19 together. We found those package better in larger 20 packages. And that's another reason why we are seeing 21 good prices on those type of projects, that we're 22 combining them together. 23 And then if you do not -- I did leave one 24 part out. If that I&I did not work, then we have to 25 replace that project. And, generally, on those MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 339 1 projects, you'll see they're replacement or relief 2 project. In other words, the word "relief" will be in 3 the name of the project and it'll give that extent. 4 And what we've seen with the private I&I 5 removal, the public I&I and the post-construction 6 monitoring, we've -- in some cases we've been able to 7 remove the overflow. Some cases we've been able to 8 reduce the scope of what we originally had planned in 9 the overall CIRP as far as the amount of replacement 10 projects that we have to do. 11 Q Thank you. That makes sense. Just a couple 12 more questions about this project. 13 A Oh, take your time. 14 Q I just want to make sure I understand 15 clearly. So these projects would be volume metric, 16 not with respect to certain constituents; correct? 17 A Yes. Well, it could. Again, if there's an 18 area that has a number of backups -- in other words, 19 it's not just the overflow. In other words, our 20 system, in some cases, before it overflows, say, a 21 manhole or out a constructed overflow, it can back up 22 into basements. So originally when they were planned, 23 we looked at both -- how much was coming out of an 24 overflow. 25 In other words, the capacity assurance is MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 340 1 not just to prevent us from overflowing. It's 2 almost -- also to prevent it from going back into 3 people's basements during those rain events. So it 4 is -- if I understand your question on 5 constituent-based, yes. And if the systems don't -- 6 the systems themselves don't know what -- how -- you 7 know, it's just how it was developed. 8 Q Okay. 9 A Generally. I hope I -- 10 Q Yeah, I'm kind of trying to get at the -- 11 like TSS and BOD aspects of it as well. Just trying 12 to figure out if, based on the volume of things like 13 that, it would have an effect on the projects, if that 14 makes sense. 15 A Yeah. I'm not -- I'm not certain of the 16 correlation of what you're talking about. I mean, 17 when I think of TSS and BOD, I'm thinking of our 18 treatment processes and the amount of work that goes 19 on at our plants for capacity. 20 In other words, when we look at capacity, we 21 have to look at our -- the ability of our plants to 22 accept that flow that's coming to them. Which, in 23 some cases, if -- where we do have access flow that's 24 still coming because we've reduced the overflow or 25 transported the flow with larger sewers, generally the MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 341 1 plant has the capacity to -- and if we can't exceed 2 that capacity, that's when you know that the large 3 storage projects we have, like the underground 4 tunnel-type storage. 5 In other words, you're -- you're taking that 6 store -- flow and you're storing it during the rain 7 event and then you're putting it to the plant so it 8 can be fully treated. Again, we have to make sure the 9 plant has that ability to take that flow for the time 10 that it has to. 11 Q So there would be probably capital 12 improvement projects related to making sure to take 13 that flow as well? 14 A Exactly. A lot of -- the way we approach a 15 lot of this work on the plants -- we were seeing 16 larger flows. So the district as far back as the '90s 17 and the early 2000s had been doing capacity upgrades 18 to their treatment plants, both our Missouri River 19 plant, obviously the lower Meramec was a newer plant, 20 but at our Bissell and our Lemay treatment plant. 21 In fact, one of our first combined sewer 22 overflow was increasing our secondary capacity at our 23 Lemay wastewater treatment plant, which is a combined 24 sewer/wastewater treatment plant. In addition to 25 that, we put in a process for disinfection of the MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 342 1 wastewater, the -- the overflows at both our Lemay -- 2 and all of our plants, those were included. 3 I think in the four-year rate cycle, there's 4 some improvements at our Coldwater plant for some 5 clarifier replacements, and so projects at our -- at 6 our Bissell plant for trickling filter media 7 replacement. That's our secondary treatment there. 8 That, again, plants -- you know, if you 9 build a physical plant or a pump station, we have 10 sewers that are over a hundred years old. They -- you 11 can't -- you hope you can design them that they'll 12 last a hundred years. Plants with mechanical, 13 electrical, things like that, do not have that kind of 14 a life. So you build in that replacement over time. 15 And that project that Bissell and Coldwater are, it's 16 time for that -- replace that aging infrastructure. 17 Q That kind out of goes into my next question. 18 I was wondering if there had been some analysis done 19 on like inspecting -- they inspected operating life 20 of -- for these projects? 21 A Well, what we've done, and it just happened, 22 it's taken us two or three years. If we were sitting 23 here at the previous rate cycle, typically projects at 24 our plants that may have been at a rate cycle, 25 basically we were looking at their potential for MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 343 1 failure within a five-year period, and said, "We've 2 got to do these or they won't wait till the next rate 3 cycle." 4 What we've done since that time is 5 implemented an asset management. I think I provided 6 the details in the third discovery request. I'm not 7 an expert at it. I know we've done it, but we're 8 doing -- we created a monetized prioritization for 9 projects that would be outside of the planned consent 10 decree projects that would help us prioritize. 11 In other words, a part of that is then going 12 out at these -- at these treatment plants, at these 13 pump stations, and doing condition assessments. And 14 that's what we're in the process of doing. So then we 15 can foresee what do we have coming in the future, 16 but -- and so that's the type of thing we're using 17 right now. 18 Q Thank you. In the second discovery request, 19 there was some discussion of future expenses. I think 20 it was estimated to be about 400 million for nutrient 21 effluent -- 22 A Which -- which question was that? I want to 23 make sure I'm following you. 24 Question 2. I found it. 25 Q Yeah. There's an estimate of about MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 344 1 400 million for nutrient effluent limits. And I was 2 wondering if you had any idea when those would hit? 3 A We follow it. This is -- nutrient control 4 is something happening all over the United States 5 right now. We've seen more of it happening in -- in 6 lake regions. Like the Great Lakes area, the 7 Chesapeake Bay area. But the nutrient issue is a 8 problem, particularly in the -- in the Mississippi 9 Basin, and the effects it has on the Gulf of Mexico. 10 There's a lot of sources for nitrogen and 11 phosphorus and the nutrients that our rivers seed. 12 Treatment plants aren't the only one. So the 13 wastewater industry, we've not fought back and said, 14 hey, we don't think we should do it, but what we've 15 done is pushed back and say, we aren't the only 16 source, and if we're going to be asked to invest in 17 that source, we should share in that. And a lot of it 18 has to do with agriculture. 19 So it's been -- slowly, but surely, been 20 delayed. The district has gone and we've done a 21 comprehensive study of the nutrients and the impacts 22 of our nutrients at our plants and we have developed a 23 plan and that was the basis. 24 Similarly, we did the comprehensive solids 25 handling plan, and we've developed -- based on what we MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 345 1 think the limits would be in our plants, there are 2 ways that -- that could be mitigated through potential 3 sharing of costs with ag because it's -- sometimes 4 it's cheaper to do source control with the agriculture 5 as opposed to us upgrading our processes to the point 6 to where it becomes fairly costly. 7 So what we've done is we've come up with a 8 plan that we feel will address these. And then as a 9 long range, financial plan and it's -- I can't tell 10 you exactly where we place this in there, but it was 11 after the majority of -- not completely after the 12 consent decree, but where the bulk of the work of the 13 consent decree came in. So we're kind of -- we -- we 14 monitor it. We participate on a national and state 15 level to monitor those activities. 16 Q Just to make sure I understand. Are we 17 confident that these costs will hit? 18 A These will -- these will come our way at 19 some point. 20 Q Thank you. That's all. 21 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Thank you, Ms. Jones. 22 I appreciate that. 23 Mr. Malone, do you have any questions of 24 Mr. Unverferth? 25 MR. MALONE: Yes, I do. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 346 1 EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. MALONE: 3 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Unverferth. How are 4 you? 5 A Good. 6 Q Do you have your direct testimony with you? 7 A Right here. 8 Q Okay. I want to ask you about one of the 9 factors that the Rate Commission has considered. That 10 is will the proposed rate change against the 11 district's ability to provide sewer and drainage 12 system in the facility-related services. Is it your 13 testimony that the proposed rate change will do so? 14 A Yes, it is. 15 Q Okay. And can you tell us what metrics or 16 criteria you use to determine if the rate change will 17 enhance the district's ability to provide these 18 services? 19 A One, though the district is currently under 20 consent decree, the district -- to comply with certain 21 requirements, of that consent decree, the district 22 currently operates under permits at its treatment 23 plants. In order to comply with those plants, the 24 district has to continue to operate and maintain and 25 build the necessary capital improvements to comply MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 347 1 with those two items. 2 Q Okay. Are there any other factors you 3 considered in making that determination? 4 A No. Those are the -- the two main factors. 5 Other than from a maintenance -- operations or 6 maintenance -- in other words, we have to ensure that 7 our system can operate efficiently continuously to 8 meet those permits. 9 Q Okay. And so if the rate change isn't 10 approved, would that limit the district's ability to 11 provide adequate service? 12 A Yes, it would. 13 Q Okay. And you also testified that you're 14 not anticipating any grant funding during this rate 15 cycle; is that correct? 16 A That is correct. There's been limited grant 17 funding available. We do monitor. We do make -- stay 18 in tune. We visit our legislators regularly and try 19 to look for any opportunities. In fact, most 20 opportunities have been involved is more like on the 21 loan side than any grants. 22 Q Okay. And if a grant opportunity did arise, 23 can you explain how that would impact the CIRP? Would 24 that result in more projects being added during this 25 rate cycle or accelerated? MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 348 1 A No. We would -- we would more than 2 likely -- similarly to the loans, we would try to look 3 at the projects we already have in the queue in order 4 to apply that to the current projects. 5 Q Okay. So if we receive grant funding, that 6 would be using less debt to fund the CIRP? 7 A I guess we would have to look at the 8 circumstances of how that project was planned on being 9 funded. The majority of them are being funded by -- 10 by borrowing or bonding. So there's -- yeah, that's 11 the potential, that we would reduce the amount of 12 bonding we would need. 13 Q Okay. And is it also your testimony the 14 district isn't aware of any future regulatory 15 requirements that will be imposed during these -- this 16 rate cycle? 17 A That is correct. 18 Q Okay. Are you aware of any beyond the rate 19 cycle that are on the horizon? 20 A The one I just spoke of with MIEC. The 21 nutrient requirements, ammonia nutrient requirements 22 for local waterways is something we are monitoring, 23 and that's being performed in other areas of the 24 nation right now. 25 Q Okay. And in the event that -- that that MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 349 1 regulation was implemented, would that necessitate a 2 consent decree? 3 A It would be something similar to the method 4 we used for the -- moving the incinerator regulatory 5 requirement up. We would probably look to see what 6 impact -- when it was hitting compared to the other 7 capital program and how it was going to impact the 8 overall program. But if we felt like it would 9 necessitate, we probably would at least have the 10 discussion with them. 11 Q I see. Okay. All right. And then one of 12 the factors in the operational rules for the Rate 13 Commission to consider is how the district is taking 14 measures to ensure that the cost of constructing and 15 maintaining the district's facilities and providing 16 related services are being incurred in a reasonable 17 and efficient manner. 18 I think you touched on this a little bit 19 with Ms. Jones, but would you be able to expand upon 20 what steps the district is taking? 21 A Obviously, we continuously work with our 22 construction stakeholders and our -- and our 23 engineering stakeholders to apply the best practices 24 with regard to our plans that we put out to bid. We 25 try to put them out in packages that we know that will MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 350 1 give us good bids. In our discussions with them, 2 we -- on the engineering side, we try to package it to 3 where, not only we allow -- in other words, to allow 4 the most in participation that we can provide from 5 both our contractor and consultant resources. 6 MS. MYERS: What document are you referring 7 to? 8 MR. MALONE: I think it's -- 9 MS. MYERS: No, I was asking -- 10 MR. MALONE: Oh. Just there I was looking 11 at the operational rules. It was section 3-4F. 12 MS. MYERS: Okay. 13 Q (By Mr. Malone) Okay. And then if I can 14 direct your attention to -- I'm looking at pages 7-43 15 through 7-53 in the rate change proposal. Do you have 16 that handy? 17 A Forty-three? 18 Q 7-43 through 7-53, specifically the general 19 services agreements that are described on these pages. 20 A Okay. 21 Q Can you explain how these general services 22 agreements are -- give us some examples of how these 23 have been used in the past. 24 A The district -- this -- there's several -- 25 there's several types. We utilize general service MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 351 1 agreements for sewer design at our treatment plants. 2 So I'm just going to go -- let me make sure I'm 3 getting them in the right order here. 4 I'll just start with the general services 5 for construction management. The district utilizes 6 outside resources to assist with construction 7 inspections, primarily at our wastewater treatment 8 plants and our pump station, to bring on specific 9 expertise in those areas. The district has a 10 construction inspection staff that will generally do 11 the inspection on -- on typical sewer projects, CIPP 12 rehabilitation. But when it comes to our pump 13 stations and treatment plants, the -- we're looking 14 for more expertise on the construction inspection site 15 because you're dealing with mechanical equipment and 16 electrical equipment, pumping equipment, things like 17 that. And those projects have a little more 18 criticality as far as the type of inspection versus 19 just monitoring the work that's going on by the 20 contractor. So when we have those types of 21 projects -- particularly I talked earlier about the 22 small wastewater treatment plant projects. We utilize 23 that for the construction management services. 24 When you move to the next type, very 25 similar. We have small projects that come up over -- MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 352 1 over the life of the rate cycle where we need design 2 services for that. We do a lot of contract management 3 on our -- on our sewer projects. But most of our 4 sewer design is actually done by the consultants. So 5 this is a specific contract to -- I call it staff 6 extension -- providing us an expertise in staff 7 extension for the design of pump stations and 8 treatment plant type work, whether it be for studies 9 or -- or actual design type things, similar to 10 construction. Then we'll have a separate one for 11 construction. 12 If you move on to the geotechnical services, 13 the district does not provide -- have geotechnical 14 resources currently within its staff. So we contract 15 those geotechnical services. This is to provide soil 16 drilling, soil analysis, and -- and recommendations 17 for geotechnical work on the projects primarily that 18 the district's in-house folks do the design on. 19 In other words, I have an in-house design 20 staff that does design on small projects. And then 21 infrastructure repair work that we need that 22 expertise -- in other words, we hire consultants in to 23 provide those services and for some of our green 24 infrastructure projects that we design internally. 25 The next one is the landscape design. The MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 353 1 district, as part of the green infrastructure program, 2 we are designing and building, as part of the consent 3 decree, green infrastructure program, rain gardens 4 and -- primarily in the combined sewer area. And, 5 typically, requires expertise in plantings and 6 landscaping type activities that we don't have that 7 resource internally. So we contract that out. 8 The next one up is property appraisal 9 services. Those are -- the district -- for our 10 easement acquisition. Prior to going out and 11 acquiring those easements, the district has those 12 easements appraised. So that's an outside resource 13 that we -- that we get. And we get multiple contracts 14 on this just to allow the opportunity for several 15 contractors to work on that. 16 The next one is -- hold on here. Sewer and 17 channel design. Again, this is a staff extension to 18 provide additional resources to do contract design 19 work on that infrastructure repair work project that 20 come up during the course of time. If our -- if our 21 staff is fully consumed doing other projects, then 22 that gives us a resource to do that type of work 23 primarily on the engineering side. 24 Survey. The district does have limited 25 survey crews that are utilized to the extent they're MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 354 1 available. So this is an additional survey resource 2 for in-house design folks. And I believe that was the 3 last one. 4 Q Okay. And so for each of these categories, 5 for geotechnical, landscaping, appraisal, does the 6 district -- when you need these services, are they put 7 out to bid or do you have a list of approved 8 contractors? 9 A No. Every -- all of our selections are 10 based on like a quality-based selection, particularly 11 with the engineering services, both in the 12 construction management and the design. The appraisal 13 services, I -- it's a selection that's based on cost 14 and qualifications. 15 Q I see. Okay. And just so I'm clear on 16 this. So, for instance, you have the landscape 17 design, there's 200,000 allocated for -- that are 18 budgeted for fiscal year '21. Is it -- am I correct 19 then that for individual projects in the CIRP, 20 landscape design costs are excluded from what's in 21 this document or -- 22 A Yeah. Those are typically just for the 23 professional services. 24 Q Okay. 25 A In other words, that 200,000, for lack of a MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 355 1 better term, is a -- is money then that if we have a 2 small rain garden project where we're looking for 3 landscaping services -- generally planting plans, 4 things like that -- once we design the size of the 5 basin, what we -- we'll do individual task orders 6 within that. So it's a task-order base. In other 7 words, it wouldn't be just one project. It could be 8 multiple projects where we go to them and get a lump 9 sum estimate for a specific task within that, and that 10 would last over a year. In other words, generally 11 we -- we have those as renewable contracts for two 12 years. 13 Q I see. And so where a project is listed in 14 CIRP, that's going to require geotechnical service -- 15 services or appraisals or surveys, those costs aren't 16 included in the figures listed in the CIRP? 17 A They are not. 18 Q Okay. All right. 19 A Generally what you'll see -- because these 20 are projects that generally are mostly being designed 21 by our internal staff, is that you will always see the 22 construction costs then in the CIRP. 23 Q I see. In the rate change proposal, there 24 is, I think, 26 million that's being spent on data 25 collection, which is post-circuit television MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 356 1 inspection, physical inspection, so on and so forth. 2 Can you explain how this information is used? 3 A Is there a specific location -- 4 Q I don't have a page number offhand. 5 A Is it -- is part of -- is it in this 6 listing? Is it part of the -- oh, okay. I think I 7 got it. 7-27? 8 Q Yes. 9 A No. Okay. And what's the question? 10 Q I think my question is, can you just explain 11 what the purpose of this is, what benefit is provided 12 by doing so. 13 A One, there's a -- there's a requirement in 14 the consent decree for the district to inspect -- 15 internally inspect a certain quantity. I don't know 16 the exact one. Mr. Berthold may be able to give you 17 an exact amount of sewage. 18 Our sewer system that the district is 19 required to inspect on an annual basis, I think it's 20 in the range of about 1 percent per year of the entire 21 sewer system. It's about 6500 miles of sewer system 22 that the district staff does do some of this internal 23 CCTV. This provides an added resource to look at 24 these -- to perform this contracted -- and contracted 25 resources to perform these activities. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 357 1 In addition, these are utilized in some 2 instances where district staff on the larger diameter 3 projects, in the combined sewer area, we have very 4 large sewers which require, in some cases, manned 5 entry. That's -- that's a performance that the 6 internal district staff does not perform. So we 7 utilize these outside resources to do that. And they 8 provide us with a condition assessment of that system 9 and provide us with information so we can prioritize 10 our rehabilitation program. 11 Q I see. And does the consent decree dictate 12 whether you use closed circuit TV or physical 13 inspection? 14 A It does not. It just says we must inspect 15 our systems. Closed circuit is obviously the most 16 efficient way to take a look at, at least the smaller 17 diameter. When you get into the larger diameter, we 18 utilize some -- and Mr. Berthold may be able to 19 provide some of that information. We continuously 20 look at newer technologies to do that better. 21 Q Okay. So the district has some flexibility 22 to determine the appropriate method? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Okay. I think that was all. 25 MR. MALONE: Pam, do you have anything else? MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 358 1 That's all I have. Thank you. 2 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Thank you, Mr. Malone. 4 Does any member of the commission have any 5 questions for this witness? 6 Mr. Stein, please. 7 COMMISSIONER STEIN: Thank you. 8 EXAMINATION 9 BY COMMISSIONER STEIN: 10 Q Mr. Unverferth, I would direct you to 11 page 4-39 of the rate proposal. And the last 12 paragraph on that page, it starts out, "The cost of 13 service analysis indicates a significant increase in 14 the surcharge rates for BOD, COD and TSS. This 15 increase is caused by several factors, most 16 significantly that the capital cost allocated to these 17 functional categories increased by approximately 18 70 percent of fiscal 2017 for the test year of fiscal 19 2021." 20 Can you speak to some specific projects that 21 are driving that capital cost increase? 22 A Two off the top of my head. I would have to 23 go back and look. One is the -- I think the year they 24 used was fiscal year '21 as their -- as their basis. 25 And if I remember looking, we are replacing -- there's MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 359 1 two major projects. There's obviously smaller 2 projects that are -- can be attributed to our primary 3 and secondary flows. It's clarifier replacement at 4 the Coldwater Wastewater Treatment Plant. It's within 5 the list. And the second is replacement of the media 6 filter at the Bissell Wastewater Treatment Plant. I 7 did -- I heard those questions yesterday. 8 I did a little analysis, and it looked like 9 on the last rate cycle, we did about $10 million in 10 work at the treatment plants, and over this next rate 11 cycle, if you exclude the incinerator project and you 12 just look at work outside, it averages out to just 13 under 20 million. And, again, those are rough 14 numbers. But after hearing those discussions 15 yesterday, I kind of glanced at that and took those 16 averages. 17 Q Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Mr. Schoedel? 19 EXAMINATION 20 BY COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: 21 Q Yes. You mentioned that your estimates for 22 the next four years were revised within the last two 23 year so that the capital numbers in the CIRP, you 24 think are pretty accurate return estimates? 25 A Yeah. If you look, our program, it takes MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 360 1 almost four years to get through to where our projects 2 are funded. We take it from a conceptual level, a 3 preliminary level. What you see in that four years, 4 generally at least the first two to three years are at 5 the preliminary level where we've gone down and we've 6 redefined the scope of the project and developed our 7 latest cost estimate to what we think the solution 8 could be. 9 Obviously, you get into design. Again, they 10 could -- the model could show that we don't 11 necessarily have to do as much work. So that -- that 12 generally you are looking at an estimate that's been 13 done within two years of when you first start 14 seeing -- two years ahead of the design. 15 Q Do you mind answering my next question? So 16 you have reengineered these projects as well, based on 17 reduced flows and new technology that you've 18 experienced over the previous four years that could 19 help reduce the cost for these projects? 20 A Very much so, yes. Once we do the I&I, 21 which I explained earlier, public I&I, we would remove 22 downspouts, things like that, we do post-construction 23 monitoring, and we have -- and we've had everything 24 from being able to cancel projects to reducing scope 25 of projects or even size of projects. So that could MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 361 1 happen within a rate cycle because we're -- the way we 2 scheduled them with the consent decree is we went 3 public-private, and we're doing the monitoring during 4 that process, but at the same time, you have to give 5 that relief project the go-ahead and program that 6 because you have a timeframe when that overflow has to 7 be out. 8 So we do -- it's unfortunate we do have to 9 program that relief project because if we don't 10 program it, and we just wait to see, then we may not 11 meet our schedule. 12 Q Sure. Thank you. With the GSA services, I 13 notice it's pretty well the same number for each year. 14 So there's no escalation for those services no matter 15 if it's the appraisal or landscaping or the geotech or 16 the engineering; so flat fees? 17 A Yeah. We -- we generally -- with the 18 multiple contracts, it allows us to utilize -- you 19 know, utilize those differently. We found those were 20 good numbers to support us over that period of time. 21 In fact, we won't go for renewal -- in other words, I 22 won't bring it back to our board for the additional 23 funding if I don't need it. In other words, if I 24 happen to utilize that contract, then I've seen where 25 we've had a two-year contract with a firm that lasts MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 362 1 three years with the money. So, in other words, 2 we use -- so then every once in a while, you'll see us 3 actually skip a year of procurement and move on. 4 Q Okay. Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Any further questions? 6 Mr. Brockmann? 7 EXAMINATION 8 BY COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: 9 Q Mr. Unverferth, you talked earlier about 10 adjusting bid items based on previous experience where 11 you're getting lower prices. But then I hear you just 12 now talked about you reestimated a project two years 13 in advance after starting to do the engineering on it. 14 So I guess, I take it, a lot of these numbers here do 15 not reflect, or at least the latter part of these 16 numbers in here do not reflect the most recent lower 17 bids that you've received? 18 A The preliminary estimates would probably not 19 see the effect of that. It would be our final design 20 estimate based on -- in other words, our estimate that 21 becomes closest to what we're bidding it would reflect 22 those. The preliminary would -- we do go back and we 23 will adjust our preliminary numbers, but you're not 24 going to see that here. 25 Q So, conceivably, if the bidding market MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 363 1 stayed as good as it has been for the past four years, 2 some of these numbers are -- you would admit are 3 probably high on the latter part of this rate request? 4 A Yes, theoretically. 5 Q Okay. I'm intrigued a little bit by the 6 tunnel projects and a couple questions on there. How 7 many are included in the consent decree, and a total 8 cost of how much? 9 A Tough question here. I could name them, but 10 I don't think -- I don't think I'm going to be able to 11 give you the construction estimates on them. 12 Q Okay. 13 A We could provide them -- if you ask for 14 that, we could provide you a detail and when they're 15 currently scheduled. But, currently, under 16 construction we have a Maline tunnel construction 17 project. I believe the cost -- the bid cost for that, 18 I think the appropriation was about 90 million. We 19 have the Jefferson Barracks Tunnel, which is the 20 sanitary tunnel in the south. It runs from our Lemay 21 treatment plant to South County. That was about a 22 $77 million appropriation. And we currently have the 23 Deer Creek Tunnel Project under construction, I 24 believe was 167 million. That's a 20-foot diameter 25 tunnel that runs from, essentially, Deer Creek and MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 364 1 Shrewsbury up to the other side of the Galleria. 2 The CSO -- the Maline is a CSO tunnel. It's 3 about half a mile long and that's a 30-foot diameter. 4 It captures combined sewer overflows from the Maline 5 Creek. And then there's a pump station associated 6 with all three of those. Those are ongoing. Tunnel 7 projects, the next one that will be done, based on the 8 current program, is the tunnel from South County up to 9 our Fenton Treatment Plant, which will remove our 10 Fenton Wastewater Treatment Plant and eliminate 11 several pump stations along the way that currently 12 pump down to our lower Meramec plant. 13 Those are problems from -- again, with 14 capacity at those pump stations so the tunnel will not 15 only eliminate a wastewater treatment plant, but 16 address capacity issues at pump stations along that. 17 I think that's about a 10-foot diameter. I do not 18 know the cost estimate for that. 19 The next tunnel after that would be the 20 large CSO tunnel that the district has plans to 21 address overflows along River Des Peres. It's 22 approximately 9 miles long starting at a wastewater 23 treatment plant at the Lemay Pump Station -- I mean, 24 Lemay Treatment Plant up into -- following along River 25 Des Peres up to around the Macklind area. That's MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 365 1 about a 30-foot diameter tunnel. There's a lot of 2 associated sewers with that. So I say -- and the 3 current estimate is in the $700 million range. And I 4 don't know if that includes -- but then there are two 5 more tunnels after that. 6 Q So the majority, I'm hearing, are conveyance 7 tunnels rather than storage tunnels? 8 A The -- the -- the River Des Peres Tunnel is 9 a storage tunnel. 10 Q Okay. 11 A And -- but generally the Deer Creek -- both 12 of them -- in other words, like I said, they're 13 designed for both conveyance and storage because you 14 can't convey this flow direct. Our plants wouldn't be 15 able to hold it. In other words, we'll have to manage 16 those flow. In other words, part of that 17 construction, the pump station is managing those flows 18 depending on where the flows are coming out. In other 19 words, they'll be real-time control over those 20 facilities to manage the flow to the treatment plant. 21 Q All these tunnels, does gravity flow into 22 them? 23 A Yes. Typically there is. 24 Q So most -- 25 A Oh, I'm sorry -- yes, you're right. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 366 1 Q So then most of them, if they're conveyance 2 tunnels, it's gravity flow once they get to a 3 treatment point, or are you having to then pump it out 4 of the tunnel to the treatment plant? 5 A There we're pumping from a tunnel to another 6 trunk sewer system to the plant. 7 Q Okay. And all these tunnels are vented, and 8 you don't anticipate any odor issues or anything with 9 these tunnels? 10 A Everything we do with regard to large pump 11 station facilities, large storage tanks, we take into 12 consideration odor at locations. There's vent shafts, 13 there's -- and -- and that is taken into 14 consideration. 15 Q Okay. Switching subjects a little bit. 16 Insurance requirements for your contractors, do you 17 have a specific requirement for a different price 18 category of project, or is it the same insurance 19 requirement for all of your projects? How is it 20 determined that -- do you know offhand what your 21 insurance requirements are? 22 A I don't know that I'd be in a position to 23 answer all that. Generally, most of them have the 24 same insurance requirement on the construction. We 25 have looked at, and we were working with our current MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 367 1 insurance on creating a matrix that may adjust that, 2 depending on the size of the project. I know if it's 3 a very large-scale project, we do make adjustments to 4 those insurance based on that complexity. I can't 5 give you exact numbers. I -- I -- if you ask, I 6 could -- ask in discovery, I could probably give you 7 the specifics of those insurance -- 8 Q I just heard that some of your insurance 9 requirements for smaller projects are pretty high for 10 like a 5 million general liability. 11 A We have had that discussion, and we made 12 adjustments on some of those projects. We've had 13 discussions with our insurance. Like I said, we are 14 in discussions on creating a matrix based on the size 15 of projects in trying to bring those in line, 16 particularly on the smaller projects. 17 Q Does a bidder have to have the insurance in 18 place before they bid? Is that one of the bidding 19 requirements? 20 A Typically, they have to provide before we'll 21 enter the contract. 22 Q Okay. 23 A Or provide that insured insurance, yes. 24 Q Okay. I have no further questions. 25 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Mr. Palans? MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 368 1 COMMISSIONER PALANS: Do you want to -- go 2 ahead. 3 COMMISSIONER GOSS: No, go ahead. I'm sure 4 mine will be shorter. 5 EXAMINATION 6 BY COMMISSIONER PALANS: 7 Q Mr. Unverferth, just refer to your direct 8 testimony, if you would. From a big picture 9 standpoint, in question 10 in your direct testimony, 10 you say that the wastewater CIRP is primarily composed 11 of projects required to comply with the consent decree 12 or other regulatory requirements; correct? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And, in fact, the rate proposal also 15 emphasizes that the capital improvement and 16 replacement program, or CIRP, is the primary cost 17 driver for the district's financial plan, representing 18 about two-thirds of anticipated expenditures in fiscal 19 '21 to fiscal '24; correct? 20 A That is correct. 21 Q Let's talk about the CIRP projects. This is 22 your bailiwick? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Could you tell us approximately the total 25 number of CIRP projects that the district is dealing MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 369 1 with? 2 A Currently I would -- again, I would be 3 guessing. We bid approximately in the range of around 4 projects a year. So, typically, we would have 5 close to a couple hundred projects active at any one 6 time. 7 Q In terms of total CIRP projects to comply 8 with the consent decree, what are we talking about in 9 terms of number? 10 A I would -- I would only be guessing. I 11 could get that number. In our master plan, I think on 12 the sanitary side, identified a number of projects, 13 but, in some cases, we split those projects up. I 14 discussed that a little bit earlier. We'll pull -- 15 you know, if it's a large project, say an SSO, it 16 might have three projects associated with it: A 17 public I&I project, a private I&I project, and a 18 relief project. 19 And with that, you have appropriations for 20 design work for that so a project could have -- a 21 specific project to eliminate an SSO could have, you 22 know, a half a dozen individual appropriations that I 23 have to take to our board in order to do that the 24 engineering design contract and the actual individual 25 construction contracts. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 370 1 Q Let's talk about it in terms of cost. You 2 indicate in the proposal that this is a multi-decade 3 effort to comply with the consent decree; correct? 4 A Yes. 5 Q It's going to take at least for the next 6 years; correct? 7 A Correct. 8 Q And this multi-decade effort to comply with 9 the consent decree is estimated to cost $6 billion, 10 and that's in 2018 dollars. That's what the proposal 11 says; correct? 12 A Correct. 13 Q So how much more money is required to 14 perform other CIRP projects that you presently know 15 of? 16 A That we presently know of, again, you're 17 saying non -- 18 Q Nonconsent decree-related CIRP. 19 A No. Those are -- I'm trying to find the 20 best way. Obviously we know -- in the current four 21 years, I know from what we've seen over the past 22 several years, in the current CIRP about 1.2. So 23 there's probably an additional 300 million in this 24 particular rate cycle. That's been the largest non-CD 25 that we've had since we've entered the CD. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 371 1 Typically, we've been closer to that 25 to 2 $30 million a year -- I'm sorry -- yes. So we'd be 3 looking at -- at only about a $120 million, in that 4 range, for every four-year rate cycle. So if you take 5 out, say -- I'm going to speculate, but if you take 6 out the incinerator project, you take out the 7 potential for future nutrients, which we've 8 identified, those are the two big projects that we 9 kind of see coming. There's other projects. So you'd 10 be talking about $120 million a year. The consent 11 decree -- I'm sorry. $120 million a rate cycle. So 12 you say four more rate cycles. So what is that? 13 That's a half billion dollars of non-CD. 14 So, in other words, you'd be adding -- 15 again, don't quote me on this -- but I'm saying 16 probably another half a billion dollars in today's 17 dollars that would be added onto that. 18 Q I'm not asking -- I'm not asking you to sign 19 your name on this -- 20 A No. 21 Q -- and write a check. 22 A You are correct. There are additional 23 projects outside the consent decree that the district 24 will need to perform over the life of this -- 25 Q So, as we sit here today, your best estimate MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 372 1 is $6 billion to cost perform the multi-decade consent 2 decree requirements, CIRP, and roughly another half a 3 billion dollars for non-consent decree related CIRP 4 projects? 5 A If you take out what we've expended -- so 6 I'll do it this way. There's about 4.3 billion left 7 in the consent decree, and then you add another half a 8 billion. That's in addition to the incinerator 9 project, which is in the $300 million in the future 10 itself. Essentially, you're adding another -- so what 11 did I say? Half a billion? You're adding another 12 billion and a half so you're at 7.5. 13 Q Okay. Fair enough. Thank you. 14 A Am I saying that right? 15 Q Yeah. You're doing well. I just want to 16 understand. I think all of us want to understand the 17 sizing of -- 18 A Yep. 19 Q -- this. While I'm talking about the 20 sizing, could you tell us how you go about sizing the 21 CIRP project? And when I ask that question, I know 22 you've referenced in your testimony in question 16 -- 23 the answer to question 16 on page 5, how the costs are 24 determined. Could you -- could you elaborate that in 25 terms of specifics? What's the process you go through MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 373 1 to size a project? 2 A Well, I mean, again, we've gone from our 3 experience in bidding of projects, you know, over a 4 number of years of what the local capacity -- again, I 5 talked earlier about our discussions with the local 6 stakeholders and contractors. In fact, Mr. Brockmann 7 hit on the ability to bond projects, the ability to, 8 you know, obtain the insurance, the capacity, the 9 local contracting community to do the work. Those are 10 things that have to be taken into consideration. You 11 know, what -- what is the length of time it would take 12 to construct a project? 13 You know, do we want a project that we 14 really want to take three years to build a project, 15 you know, and -- or do we want -- do we want -- and 16 what we typically found is we've tried the program to 17 where it's going to take anywhere between one and two 18 years to construct a project. So we look at the size 19 and the scope of that project. 20 Now, do we hold ourselves to that? No. 21 Obviously, when you have a large tunnel project, you 22 bid it as a large project. We have a large -- 23 actually bidding right now, part of this rate cycle, 24 probably the largest open-cut project that we've done, 25 and we're using WIFIA funds to do it. It's the Deer MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 374 1 Creek Sanitary Relief Project. 2 It's got about a $55 million estimate. 3 That, we know -- there's -- we don't have ten 4 contractors that are going to bid on that job. But, 5 at the same time, I have to have that job done in 6 order to eliminate ten overflows; so we have to look 7 at our schedule constraints. 8 So we're bidding that as one project in 9 order to meet our -- by 2023 to have those overflows. 10 That's about a four-year project. And there is 11 ability for them to even work in multiple areas on 12 that. So it's going to take a larger contract. 13 I hope I answered your question. 14 Q That's helpful. That's helpful. I know 15 that when we went through the stormwater rate cycle, 16 you used a cost benefit analysis to prioritize the 17 capital projects. What did you do to prioritize the 18 capital projects with respect to wastewater? How is 19 the priority determined? 20 A I'm going to break them into the categories, 21 because that's really how we did -- the prioritization 22 is different for the three. What I call are the two 23 main drivers, the mine sewer overflow program and the 24 separate sewer overflow program. 25 I'll start with the separate sewer overflow MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 375 1 program. 2 What we did is we started a major planning 3 process looking at our entire sanitary wastewater 4 system. I talked about the flow monitoring program 5 and the investigation of I&I. That lasted about six 6 years. All of our prioritization of that type work, 7 planning work, and ultimately the list of projects 8 required to remove those overflows and reach capacity 9 was based on -- there's like four categories that are 10 listed in the SSO master plan. 11 But it really was an impact on the 12 environment, that's the overflows, and how much is 13 really overflowing. We were monitoring those 14 overflows. And one -- every time it looked like rain, 15 it was overflowing. Obviously, that got a higher 16 priority. Where did we have extensive building 17 backups? Where were people getting sewage in their 18 homes on a regular interval more than once? Every 19 time it rained, people were getting -- so that's how 20 we prioritized. 21 And when we met with EPA, they looked at 22 those, and we were able to share that information that 23 we had -- were working to develop that plan. And 24 that's one part of why they prioritize the sanitary 25 sewer program in this first -- in other words, we have MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 376 1 to remove 85 percent of our overflows in the first 10 2 years of the consent decree, and that's why -- because 3 that had the larger environmental risks. So those 4 projects -- and for that 15 percent that are beyond 5 2023, we had to give them a specific reason why we 6 couldn't have those out by 2023. 7 So we had to -- and, generally, because I 8 had to have a project done here before I could do that 9 and before I could do that. So the sequencing of 10 projects which puts some of those sanitary sewer 11 overflows out there. 12 But, generally, what drove the priority 13 is -- was where those are at in the activations of it, 14 and that's generally what drove the sanitary program. 15 Q I know on the stormwater side there was, for 16 lack of a better term, a matrix created that, in 17 effect, looked at yard flooding, building flooding, 18 erosion, bank stabilization. A number of factors. 19 And then that was prioritized based upon cost benefit, 20 the cost of the project versus the properties that 21 were benefited by the project. And you've just 22 identified two primary factors that I understood you 23 to say that determine priority on wastewater: Impact 24 on the environment and building backups. Are those -- 25 did I hear that correctly? MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 377 1 A Here are the four that we use in our 2 prioritization. This is in the SSO master plan, 3 and -- I'm sorry. I don't know the exhibit number. 4 Q What page? 5 A I'm on page 5-2 on prioritizations. It's 6 the potential for human health and environment risks, 7 the frequency of activation. That is of the 8 overflows, the estimated volume of those overflows. 9 And then technical engineering judgment, and it goes 10 in, you know, a little more detail within the -- 11 within the program. Yes, it's the executive summary, 12 because it's volumes -- 37-C is the -- so there was 13 actually scores. If you go into each individual 14 watershed. 15 Q Okay. 16 A They looked at -- in other words, there's a 17 plan for every individual sanitary watershed. I can't 18 tell you how many. But we looked at those projects. 19 And some of them may have a higher priority project -- 20 might be a higher priority, but it couldn't be done 21 because I have sequence -- I had other projects that 22 needed to be done before. So you can't just say this 23 is the highest priority project, I need to do that, 24 because you could create -- in other words, I have to 25 do a project here and here. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 378 1 With regard to the sanitary sewer overflow 2 projects, using a cost benefit, one, because of 3 sequencing that could happen and, secondly, we have to 4 have -- we have to do them all anyway. So what we did 5 is we programmed them to -- to sequence out over the 6 23-year period, obviously meeting the consent decree 7 requirement of 85 percent by 2023. 8 Q As you cost these projects out, capital 9 projects for wastewater, what do you do to update 10 those estimates? How regularly do you update the 11 estimates? 12 A What we -- generally, we will -- we've 13 developed a conceptual cost originally when we did the 14 master plan. In other words, we came up with the 15 costs and scope. And, generally, prior to 16 programming, what we do is that then becomes from 17 conceptual cost at that time to a preliminary cost. 18 That's where we -- approximately two years before the 19 design, in that one to two-year range, we take a look 20 at the scope that was originally identified in the 21 master plan, take a look at any new data that we may 22 have, whether it be from CCTV or flow metering, that 23 type of data, and we revise that scope. 24 And including with that -- and I didn't 25 mention this earlier. I talked about -- to MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 379 1 Mr. Schoedel about reducing scopes and things like 2 that. What we have found in -- in -- within the 3 sanitary sewer areas, the district, part of the 4 consent decree was a very intensive maintenance and 5 operation program. 6 In other words, extensive cleaning of the 7 system, lining of the system for repairs. That type 8 of thing. We've seen impacts of that work to the 9 extent that we -- in certain areas, there was a 10 project that we -- our meters were showing we had 11 capacity problems, and turned out there was actually a 12 maintenance issue. In other words, one of our trunk 13 sewers had capacity issues. So that project 14 essentially could go away. 15 I didn't mean to change the subject there, 16 but while I was thinking about that, I wanted to bring 17 that up. 18 But -- so on the sanitary side, we -- as far 19 as the cost estimates go, within two year of our 20 design we refine the scope, and then that -- once 21 that's done, that preliminary, generally, will go into 22 the CIRP and in the four-year rate cycle, and then 23 we'll move to design. 24 And in the design, obviously they'll be 25 designing the sewer, developing the final scope of the MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 380 1 project, doing more refined hydraulic analysis where 2 they're actually sizing, and your scope can be refined 3 in those areas. In other words, they're using the 4 most up-to-date flow metering data. 5 And then -- then it gets what I call the 6 final cost estimate. That's the cost estimate -- 7 generally, that's the last thing we do before we put 8 the project out for bid. In other words, with the 9 final set of drawings, then we do -- so there is -- 10 and we generally will see -- because scopes change 11 from conceptual to preliminary, then we'll see scopes 12 change again from the preliminary to the design, 13 simply because at that preliminary level, we don't 14 have a geotechnical understanding of the project. We 15 don't have the constraints. We try to identify 16 constraints where we may have to tunnel under a major 17 arterial road, things like that. Those costs tend to 18 come back in during the design process. 19 Q I just want to compare the process you used 20 in stormwater for sizing and scope with the process 21 you use for wastewater. With regard to stormwater, as 22 I recall, the testimony was that there was a -- very 23 little engineering was performed, very quick analysis 24 was performed, and a minimal amount of detailed 25 information was utilized. Compare your size and scope MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 381 1 of wastewater projects with what I just described, 2 what the record described, as the sizing and scoping 3 of stormwater. 4 A So there is a big difference. One -- one, 5 we spent literally years of development of the CSO 6 long-term control plan and the SSO long-term control 7 plan, understanding our system out there. In other 8 words, identifying our complete system, doing, you 9 know -- at one point, we had close to 500 flow meters 10 throughout the system. In other words, we had to have 11 a full understanding of our system to understand where 12 those capacity issues were in order to identify those 13 scopes, and then we took those scopes and refined them 14 into the master plan. 15 So prior to even the conceptual development 16 of a project, we've done a lot of legwork. And keep 17 in mind, we -- you know, we had to have that in order 18 to ensure where we didn't need to do projects. 19 On the stormwater side, essentially you 20 would get a complaint. You would go out, speak with 21 the property owner, understand the issue, measure 22 where it might be, visit that site, say, "Here's what 23 we think the solution was," and you put it into a 24 database, and that database sat there till you 25 understood you had funding available to potentially do MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 382 1 that project. And that -- that plays a little bit 2 into it, having that -- you know, the resources and 3 funding available to do a program like this. 4 And we put those in place in order -- 5 because we wanted a good plan for SSO, we wanted a 6 good plan for CSO because we wanted to do -- we had to 7 know what was necessary to comply. 8 Q So is it a fair characterization that the 9 wastewater sizing and scoping is much more detailed, 10 much more specific, much more studied, than was the 11 stormwater sizing and scope? 12 A That would be a fair statement. 13 Q You testified earlier, and I think the 14 record yesterday reflects, that we are seeing, or MSD 15 is seeing lower -- historically low CIRP cost pricing 16 for capital pricing. Is that your understanding? 17 A Yes. Generally, we've seen lower good bids 18 for pretty much the life of the consent decree. 19 Q And you've -- you referenced in your prior 20 testimony today that you've seen consistently lower 21 pricing on CIRP projects; correct? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And you've seen, in your words, good pricing 24 on CIRP projects; correct? 25 A Yes. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 383 1 Q And you have -- you described good 2 competition resulting in a number of bidders being 3 interested to participate with MSD on the CIRP 4 projects; correct? 5 A Yes. And I qualified that a little bit. 6 You know, not every project is the same, but I would 7 say if we had a typical project, typical 8 rehabilitation project where we're lining sewers, 9 making part repairs and rehabilitating manholes, we 10 have multiple packages of that very similar because 11 they know what to expect on those jobs. It helps get 12 us good bids. 13 On the open-cut relief sewers, those aren't 14 quite as consistent. In other words, we make -- you 15 know, not every -- in other words, you might have 16 three jobs that you have -- you get good bids on, and, 17 all of a sudden, one is an outlier because they're -- 18 there are complications on certain projects. I mean, 19 if there's sections that -- maybe you have short 20 sections of tunnel that a contractor, you know, is 21 concerned about, or an area that we've -- very tight 22 construction, you know, we'll see that. 23 In other words, we'll still maintain our 24 unit prices that we use, but they may elevate their 25 prices to cover things that they see that we maybe MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 384 1 didn't see. 2 Q Mr. Unverferth -- 3 A "Rich" is fine, too. 4 Q "Rich" is better. 5 In the commercial world, we have seen a 6 number of cycles going back to the recessionary period 7 of 10 years ago when the capital markets collapsed, 8 and we had a perfect storm. And this is me just 9 talking. I'm not asking you a question, but I just 10 want to get to my next question. We had a perfect 11 storm of horribles. We had high interest rates, no 12 monies available for borrowing, high costs of 13 utilities, banks were not making loans to other banks. 14 It was a perfect storm of bad things happening for the 15 economy. 16 As I understand where we are today in 17 viewing the consent decree and the performance under 18 the consent decree, we have historically low interest 19 rates. That's what the financial advisor testified to 20 yesterday. And we have very low or historically low 21 CIRP project pricing. That's my understanding of kind 22 of the snapshot of where we sit today. Is that fair? 23 A That would be fair. 24 Q And Mr. Gee and others testified as to the 25 liquidity position of the district being very good. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 385 1 We're AA rated. We're highest rated, I think in 2 Standard & Poor's, and we have a sufficient number of 3 days of liquidity that more than suffice to provide a 4 cushion for us. That's all a precursor for my next 5 question. 6 Why aren't we doing more in this cycle with 7 this opportunity, lower interest rates, and low cost 8 of CIRP pricing? 9 A One, when we originally developed the -- 10 I'll call it the overall financial model for the 11 consent decree -- as -- as we put that work over the 12 23-year period, we did, is one, we wanted to maintain 13 a pre-level CIRP through that process. In other 14 words, to make sure that our rates didn't have a big 15 fluctuation. And I'm not the finance guy. But that's 16 generally what we tried to do, is maintain our rates. 17 We knew our rates were going to decline to a 18 certain level. So -- and one of -- if I look at my 19 CIRP, one, I wasn't going to be able to do, one, the 20 capacity internally to produce that type of work, in a 21 fluctuating manner is difficult to do, with -- with 22 internal resources and getting those external 23 resources. But at the same time, the capacity of the 24 community to -- to do that type of work is another 25 thing that has to be taken into consideration. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 386 1 One of the other things was, as we've 2 developed and we've gone and we've basically had 3 double-digit increases in our rates for the past -- 4 since 2006, once we started the planning effort and 5 got into the consent decree, it's been a general 6 consensus, I think from the Rate Commission, that we 7 did not want to just jump our rates in order to do 8 more work. In other words, we wanted to maintain. 9 In fact, the last Rate Commission -- we 10 do -- we do move up if we have to for schedule 11 purposes, but we do not try to bring work in from a 12 future rate cycle into the current rate cycle. Once 13 we determine what that listing of project is, we were 14 asked specifically not to bring projects into the rate 15 cycle. 16 Now, it's not as easy as it sounds just for 17 me to pull a bunch of work out and start putting it 18 out to bid. The SSO program is pretty regimented. 19 Like I said, it almost takes four years just to get 20 the project out. So that's pretty planned. 21 The CSO side, obviously we just moved a 22 large project out and moved another project in. But 23 now that we've moved back in, I have -- I have that 24 front end of completing our planning and -- and 25 designing that project, which is generally at least a MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 387 1 couple years of a process. So it's not as easy just 2 to say I'm going to move projects into the CIRP. So 3 we've pretty much stuck with the four-year plans and 4 moved that. 5 Q Do you think it would be prudent for the 6 district to reconsider this proposal to modify the 7 proposal in a reasonable way that would adjust the 8 rates -- the rates from 2 percent and 4 percent over 9 the next fiscal years for ratepayers, and also combine 10 it with a borrowing capacity, increased borrowing; so 11 as to perform more CIRP projects during this cycle? 12 A I -- to be honest with you, I think that 13 would be up to you to tell us to do that if we -- if 14 you felt like that was the direction that the Rate 15 Commission would like to go. We -- we went based on 16 what -- how we've gone in the past. In other words, 17 tried to avoid excessive -- and then if we did not 18 spend the funding from the previous rate cycle, is 19 that that money then is available, whether it be 20 bonding capacity, or the next rate cycles in order 21 to -- to try to maintain lower ratings. 22 Q Is it your testimony that the district did 23 not consider this opportunity in this cycle? 24 A I -- I developed a capital plan based on -- 25 obviously we went to the EPA and asked to move back a MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 388 1 portion of the consent decree; so I -- the answer to 2 that would probably be no because we moved a large 3 project up and moved a program back in order to 4 maintain -- without creating a peak in the CIRP. 5 Q Thank you, Mr. Unverferth. Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Thank you, Mr. Palans. 7 Mr. Goss? 8 THE WITNESS: Rich is fine. 9 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Do you need a break? 10 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't mind, no. 11 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Let's take a 12-minute 12 break. We'll reconvene at 3:00 p.m. 13 (Whereupon, a brief break was taken.) 14 COMMISSIONER HAWES: We're going to 15 reconvene. It's 3:00 p.m. 16 Mr. Goss, you had questions for 17 Mr. Unverferth. 18 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Just a few. 19 EXAMINATION 20 BY COMMISSIONER GOSS: 21 Q Rich, just to follow up on one of Lloyd's 22 questions. In that executive summary, I just want to 23 make sure I understood. It's understood you have a 24 table D, which is all of the projects that you 25 identified, or the district had identified, for the MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 389 1 capital improvements, and then you have a table C-1, 2 which is a schedule. So if I look at table D, that 3 would tell me all the projects? 4 A We're speaking of the SSO master plan? 5 Q Yeah. I'm looking at 37-C, is the exhibit 6 I'm looking at. I'm sorry. 7 A Okay. 8 Q In the appendix, there was a section D and 9 then there was a section C-1, and it looked to me like 10 D was all of the projects you folks have identified, 11 and C was, okay, this is how we schedule them to be 12 accomplished, and I just want to make sure that was 13 correct. 14 A That is correct. C-1 is the overflows that 15 are associated with those projects and the -- and 16 the -- not really the order, but in the sequential 17 buckets, we call them, that they have to come out. In 18 other words, there were certain ones we have some 19 flexibility to go from one bucket to another. Like if 20 a project slips out, we get one done early, which we 21 have done. 22 In that schedule C-1, there are some 23 highlighted ones in yellow. There's about ten that 24 those were very high activators, and the EPA said, at 25 all costs, these have to come out by 2023. Now, we've MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 390 1 been able to schedule them in there without having 2 to -- even if it meant going to that overflow and 3 providing temporary storage until we could do the 4 project, we didn't have to do that. We were able -- 5 we were -- right now we're planning to have those out 6 by 2023. 7 Q Okay. I wanted to ask you a little bit 8 about the tunnels that you were building as part of 9 the capital improvement projects. What's the useful 10 life of one of those tunnels? I mean, the one you 11 took us on the tour of was huge. 12 A Yes. I -- we would generally estimate 13 that -- again, outside of the pumping station that has 14 to bring that flow out of that -- you know, in other 15 words, it's gravity in -- typically, you're looking at 16 the actual tunnel itself, you know, being in a lot of 17 cases submerged. You hope to get a hundred-year life 18 out of that particular facility. Whether we built 19 that for a hundred years -- obviously we have larger 20 tunnels that were built, you know, at the turn of the 21 century that have lasted that long. 22 Now you are dealing with a corrosive 23 environment, you know, with sanitary sewers. So 24 obviously, you know, with the -- you know, with the 25 concrete that's there that's going to be their MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 391 1 structures, obviously you would have to monitor for -- 2 to make sure the corrosion or -- but as far as the 3 tunnel replacement, you're probably -- you know, 4 you're looking at a hundred years with some routine, 5 obviously, maintenance occasionally. 6 And then the pumping station is probably 7 different -- there are different lives. The facility, 8 the main part of the structure, the pumping station, 9 you're looking at 50 years. But when you start 10 talking about electrical, mechanical, controls, things 11 like that, probably 25. 12 Q Okay. So at this point, you're not having 13 to put in any kind of reserve account for replacement 14 because of the extended life? That's not part of this 15 budget process? 16 A It is -- it is not. I kind of talked a 17 little bit. We are putting into place that asset 18 management program that would do -- at a certain 19 interval do a condition assessment to try to estimate 20 the future life of, and then what would it take 21 cost-wise to bring it back or extend that life. 22 In some instances, an asset management 23 program, it's more reasonable to rely on to run to 24 failure than just say a pump ran into failure and 25 replace the pump. That's more on smaller pump MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 392 1 stations. The larger pump stations, you would 2 rehabilitate that to get more life. 3 Q And in terms of maintaining these tunnels, 4 what do you have to do? I mean, what's the process of 5 that? 6 A One of the things that you have to look at 7 is -- again, because they're storage and conveyance, 8 after a rain event, they may hold sewage for some 9 period of time. So you could end up with some grit 10 buildup, that type of thing. So as far as 11 maintenance, that would be -- occasionally give -- 12 having to maybe remove debris in the bottom of them. 13 Particularly with a CSO tunnel that isn't used every 14 rain event, and -- and remove debris, that type of 15 thing, if you're talking physical tunnels -- 16 Q Yeah. You don't have to sandblast the thing 17 or anything like that? 18 A No. 19 Q It's not that sort of thing? 20 A No. 21 Q Okay. And then yesterday, you may recall, I 22 asked Mr. Hoelscher some questions about U City 23 project and the Clayton project and some social 24 justice issues that have been brought up. Can you 25 elaborate on that, the process associated with those MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 393 1 considerations? And specifically as it relates to the 2 U City project, I thought I saw that it had been 3 scheduled in this capital improvement program. So my 4 understanding is that's now been pushed back and so 5 what -- what's replaced that, if I'm accurate about 6 that? 7 A Just a little history on the University City 8 project. The University City watershed drains to the 9 River Des Peres and comes down basically the main part 10 of River Des Peres with sanitary flow. So the 11 separate sewer area where this particular tunnel was 12 to take place is above an area which is a combined 13 sewer area. And part of the sanitary flow is, if we 14 remove overflows in the separate sewer area, we can't 15 just send them downstream and cause overflows. 16 So as we close up the system, remove 17 overflows, in order to not put those flows down to the 18 combined sewer system and cause overflows, that's 19 the -- that's the need for the storage tank. In other 20 words, we'll hold those flows and control those flows 21 so we don't cause overflows downstream. 22 So when we originally planned that, it was 23 on an area of Olive where there's several -- about 24 three major sewers came together at that location to 25 another sewer downstream, and what we were trying to MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 394 1 do is avoid replacing the sewer downstream. In other 2 words, to utilize the existing trunk sewer. 3 So we identified a location, a key location 4 there, that we could store that flow. It happened to 5 be an area that was in floodplain that was actually 6 the U City -- University City actually was seeking 7 FEMA funds and working with the Corps of Engineers, 8 and we were working with the Corps of Engineers to 9 even buy out -- there's some apartments at this 10 location. 11 Our original plan in the SSO master plan was 12 a shallow tunnel in that area kind of parallel to the 13 creek. But when we went into preliminary design and 14 did some geotechnical work, the geotechnical plan 15 would not hold up. In other words, we couldn't keep 16 it shallow enough or get it deep enough in that 17 location in order for it to work. 18 So then we looked at a method, what we did 19 in some other areas, like St. Ann and up in the 20 Hazelwood area, of an aboveground tank, where we 21 actually pump into a storage tank aboveground because 22 of the subsurface conditions that we had in that 23 particular area. And there were a number of homes 24 that flooded in that area. And we felt -- we 25 identified and we felt like -- something we've MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 395 1 similarly done is these are people that flood in a 2 hundred-year rain event. They don't necessarily want 3 to be there to begin with. In other words, the city, 4 at that time, was seeking to get some of that property 5 out of the floodplain. 6 Q Right. 7 A So we -- we went that route. Well, we ran 8 into resistance. They -- they came to our board and 9 said, "This isn't really what we want." So the 10 district agreed we will step back. In other words, if 11 we took those homes -- and some -- and it's different 12 in every area. Some people will be happy to get out, 13 and some people, "No. We've been here forever. We 14 don't want to go anywhere." And our board was not in 15 a position for us to -- they didn't want us using any 16 eminent domain or to be able to build this facility 17 regardless. 18 So we started looking at alternative sites. 19 And, one, because we felt like this was a good 20 location, or if we went across the street, obviously, 21 along Olive, there was a commercial lot, a partially 22 abandoned strip mall-type property, but there were 23 still some active commercial on the side. 24 Obviously, we went to the city there. We 25 started approaching the property owner, looking at MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 396 1 what a partial aboveground, belowground storage tank 2 at that location would look like. Started some 3 conversations with the property owner. 4 Well, then there was some concerns on the 5 part of the city, what would that do to future 6 redevelopment? So we had an area where they -- we 7 kind of pulled back and said, "Well, we're not going 8 to go in this area that floods. We don't want to be 9 in it." So what we did, and the district agreed and 10 with our board agreed, we would go back and take a 11 look. Because the city was pushing us to say, "Can 12 you put this anywhere else?" 13 And so it took some additional work on our 14 part and our consultant to look at what other options 15 might exist and potentially moving downstream. One of 16 the issues of moving downstream is that there's more 17 flow that comes in downstream of this location. And 18 part of that is a combined sewer area so we had to 19 look at what that might look like, potentially 20 increasing the size of the tank. 21 So right now we are doing some -- in other 22 words, we pulled back. We're doing some preliminary 23 analysis for the potentially putting this belowground 24 in the Heman Park. So that's kind of where it stands 25 right now. We worked pretty hard with U City. Right MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 397 1 now we've just got an agreement to do some preliminary 2 borings. Again, similar to the site up there, we have 3 to make sure if we build an underground storage tank, 4 is there -- what's down there? 5 Q Right. 6 A So right now, we're doing some preliminary 7 analysis. In addition to that, there is a -- one of 8 Mr. Brockmann's future tunnels, there's a combined 9 sewer tunnel in that area that's later in the combined 10 sewer program to capture combined sewer overflows. 11 Now, we have -- we can't combine those 12 together because that's combined sewage, and this is 13 strictly a sanitary storage facility. But we are 14 looking for whether it makes sense to sequence some 15 operations or some of that construction. If we're 16 going to be in the park, let's be in there one time; 17 let's not be in there more than once. 18 So that's -- that's really where it stands 19 right now. Very -- it's what happened there is not 20 uncommon. You know, we -- again, we developed a 21 conceptual plan that we thought was going to work. 22 It's -- it's not as simple as, oh, we're going to 23 realign the sewer to avoid it because it's such a -- 24 it's such a facility. And, again it was a -- you 25 know, a residential area. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 398 1 We had the benefit of being able to put a 2 tank -- the one in Hazelwood was in an industrial 3 area. We're building a tank in Crestwood, happened to 4 be their old public works facility, and more of an 5 industrial area. 6 Now, we did have some adjacent folks next to 7 that, but it turned out they were in a floodplain so 8 we were able to get some adjacent people next to the 9 tank that were building out of the floodplain, allowed 10 us a larger working area in order to construct some of 11 it. It worked out as far as them. 12 So it's an iterative process, and we try to 13 get to the municipality as soon as we see what's going 14 on, bring in -- the people into it, and occasionally 15 it's just that, you know, this is probably not the 16 right location to do it. 17 Q Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Thank you, Mr. Goss. 19 Any questions further from -- Yes. 20 Mr. Toenjes. 21 EXAMINATION 22 BY COMMISSIONER TOENJES: 23 Q Mr. Unverferth, during the earlier 24 testimony, I know that Mr. Brockmann and Mr. Palans 25 were talking about future projects, and I know that MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 399 1 you mentioned the tunnel that's going in along River 2 Des Peres, the big -- the next tunnel. When is that 3 scheduled? Is that scheduled to be done during this 4 rate cycle? Or because of the consent decree, has 5 that been pushed back to the next rate cycle? 6 A We -- we have basically slid that back to 7 just outside. In other words, that would start in the 8 next rate cycle, and then we'd -- and we had 9 planned -- that's -- the large tunnel would start 10 then. And in that rate cycle is when we have the 11 incinerators, planning to do that towards the tail end 12 of that construction. That's about a six-year 13 project. So we basically just flipped that. And 14 because -- when we move that tunnel back, it would 15 have been on top of another CSO tunnel, we just slid 16 the tunnel -- the three CSO tunnels, we slid those 17 back to five years, and we got the extension on the 18 consent decree. 19 Q So that next large tunnel -- you know, 20 obviously the Deer Creek is the first big tunnel. The 21 next big tunnel will be after this rate case. It'll 22 be in a subsequent rate case? 23 A Correct. 24 Q And your funding model takes that into 25 consideration as far as what's going to happen? MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 400 1 A Yeah. I don't know -- 2 Q At the end of the five-year cycle? 3 A I don't know how much -- I think it's all 4 within the rate model. I think we provided eight 5 years of -- and I'm going to look back to Marion to 6 find out. 7 THE WITNESS: Did we provide eight years of 8 CIRP, or just in the rate proposal? 9 MR. GEE: In the proposal itself. 10 A In the proposal itself is four years, but I 11 think in the model, that revised CIRP is -- in other 12 words, moving that tunnel is in the model itself. 13 Q (By Commissioner Toenjes) Okay. I guess I'm 14 just concerned that we don't see -- you know, when we 15 get another big project like that come online, that 16 we'll see a big spike, I guess, when we get to that 17 point. 18 A No. We -- we -- in other words, actually -- 19 that actually allowed the CIRP to level out by sliding 20 it back, simply because that -- we're still in this 21 next rate cycle, or -- yeah, this next rate cycle. 22 There's still a significant amount of sanitary sewer 23 overflow work. In other words, we have that 20 -- 24 deadline, but the bulk of the SSO sanitary sewer 25 overflow program was in the first 10 years. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 401 1 But in order to meet the schedule for the 2 combined sewer program, there was an overlap of that 3 large tunnel on River Des Peres so we -- there would 4 have been a little bit of a spike by moving that back 5 and bringing the incinerators, which is about half the 6 cost of that tunnel. 7 Again, we -- we fund that -- those larger 8 projects over multiple years. In other words, we have 9 appropriations over those years so, in other words, 10 you don't see a $700 million -- have a $700 million 11 spike. We appropriate the dollars over the life of 12 the project based on the amount of money we -- from a 13 cash flow basis. 14 Q Well, after the furor we had over with the 15 letting of this last big tunnel, I was just trying to 16 get my arms around when that may be coming -- coming 17 to fruition. Thank you. 18 A It is in the next rate cycle. We just 19 verified that. 20 Q Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Thank you, Mr. Toenjes. 22 Any other questions for Mr. Unverferth? 23 Mr. Schoedel. 24 EXAMINATION 25 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 402 1 BY COMMISSIONER SCHOEDEL: 2 Q Mr. Unverferth, you stated for Mr. Palans 3 that the number of non-CD projects are starting to 4 increase? 5 A At least in this next rate cycle. We -- 6 there were a couple of large projects that came to 7 fruition in addition to the -- the normal what we've 8 seen. 9 Q So the original rate models in this to 10 comply with the CD developed in 2012, how much asset 11 management was included at that time? 12 A Don't hold me to this, but I think at the 13 time, we typically put -- I thought we set it at like 14 25 million annually, and then -- and there was a year 15 after, about 15 years, we upped that to 50 million 16 knowing that we were going to see obviously some of 17 our collection -- some of our treatment plants 18 reaching useful life at that time, and that was -- 19 from what we knew at that time. And I -- I don't 20 recall if that original model, we had placeholders in 21 there for -- even at that time, we knew nutrients were 22 coming. I would have to go back and look at the 23 original model. I do not believe we did it for that. 24 I think we just -- 25 Q Once all the CD projects are complete, and MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 403 1 assuming no more additional regulatory requirements, 2 what do you think your annual asset management book 3 will be required to take care of the system, knowing 4 that you no longer have good wood sewers, as 5 Mr. Hoelscher mentioned, in the system? 6 A I'd -- she's getting me to refer this to 7 Bret. I don't know if Bret would have an answer. 8 I -- it would be difficult to sit here -- I think I 9 would have to put a little thought to it, to that, to 10 what I think that might look like. Particularly at -- 11 if you ask me four years from now in the next rate 12 cycle because of some of the things we're doing on the 13 asset management side, and Bret can probably elaborate 14 on this with regard to condition assessment at our 15 major -- obviously the treatment plants are the big -- 16 not that sewers aren't a big dollar amount because 17 they can be, but I think we can program that at a 18 level. 19 A treatment plant, there could be potential 20 for just like this one, you know, a $20 million 21 project that could come in. And by doing this asset 22 management program where we're actually being able to 23 prioritize that, I'm not saying we will be there in 24 four years, but it's where we want to go. 25 Q Well, ending with this, there's MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 404 1 affordability, and hopefully rates would go down 2 eventually once all these project are done. But I 3 think it really determines what your ongoing asset 4 management will be with the system that's not made of 5 wood anymore. 6 A Very -- very good point. I agree. 7 THE WITNESS: Okay. Mr. Toenjes, we -- the 8 rate proposal does go out for eight years. Table 7.7 9 on page 7.115, and -- and it does include the tunnel 10 starting with the next rate cycle. 11 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: Thank you very much. 12 I appreciate that. 13 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Any other questions 14 from the commission? 15 Yes. Mr. Brockmann. 16 EXAMINATION 17 BY COMMISSIONER BROCKMANN: 18 Q I realize your incinerators need to be 19 replaced. But have you ever spent any time 20 investigating using a byproduct or something like 21 Milwaukee does? 22 A We -- we are as -- in our discussions in the 23 development of the biosolids, our overall biosolids 24 handling for the entire district, we're looking at two 25 things as we move into more design program part of the MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 405 1 incinerators. We're looking at potential uses for 2 waste-E, both within the plants and adjacent to the 3 plants. There are some folks adjacent to Bissell that 4 could potentially have a use for waste-E and steam 5 for -- for their processes and projects that they have 6 there. 7 So we have had some preliminary discussions 8 there. And obviously the byproduct of the ash from 9 the incinerators and the use of that ash, particularly 10 in concrete products, things like that. But there 11 definitely will be things that we will look at and 12 design it such that that those things are taken into 13 consideration. 14 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Any further questions? 15 Ms. Myers, do you have any questions for the 16 witness? 17 MS. MYERS: No, we do not. 18 COMMISSIONER HAWES: All right. 19 Mr. Unverferth, thank you very much. 20 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 21 Ms. Myers, if you'll call another witness. 22 MS. MYERS: Our last witness is Bret 23 Berthold. He's the director of operations. 24 COMMISSIONER HAWES: You may come forward 25 Mr. Berthold. MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 406 1 (The witness was duly sworn.) 2 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Thank you very much. 3 Does any member of the Rate Commission have 4 questions at this time for Mr. Berthold? 5 Ms. Jones, do you have any questions for 6 Mr. Berthold? 7 MS. JONES: Yes, I do. 8 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Please come forward. 9 EXAMINATION 10 BY MS. JONES: 11 Q Good afternoon. 12 A Good afternoon. 13 Q I just have a few questions. 14 As I understand it, the rate proposal rates 15 are less than what was projected in 2015, and this 16 was, in part, because of operation and maintenance 17 costs being less than what was projected; is that 18 correct? 19 A Part of the reason they're lower, yes. 20 Q Can you explain the basis for those lower 21 costs? 22 A We have made some changes to our CMOM 23 program that have lowered costs for us to maintain -- 24 inspect and maintain our sewer system. 25 Q Do you have an idea of what the overall MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 407 1 reduction was from what was previously projected? 2 A It was approximately a million dollars a 3 year in operational costs year over year. 4 Q And you said that operation and maintenance 5 costs was a part of those lower projected rates. Are 6 there other -- what are the other things that went 7 into those lower costs? 8 A Recently we've seen a reduction in 9 electrical costs; so going forward, we didn't see 10 our -- the amount of electricity and costs associated 11 with it going up as rapidly as we had previously 12 projected. 13 Q Thank you. That's all. 14 COMMISSIONER HAWES: All right. Thank you, 15 Ms. Jones. 16 Mr. Malone, please, do you have any 17 questions? 18 MR. MALONE: Yes, I do. 19 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Okay. Please come 20 forward. 21 EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. MALONE: 23 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Berthold. 24 A Good afternoon. 25 Q Do you have your direct testimony with you? MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 408 1 A I do. 2 Q Okay. Regarding question 13, you testified 3 that there was a record low number of basement backups 4 in 2018. Do you have the raw numbers how many there 5 were? 6 A I do, and I could supply those for you. I 7 don't know them right off the top of my head. I 8 believe it was just 150. 9 Q Okay. And you compared those to the 10 historic levels. Do you have a sense of what the 11 numbers -- what the historic high was? 12 A I don't know what the historic high was, but 13 it was north of a thousand. 14 Q Okay. And do you remember when we were at, 15 roughly, a thousand backups? 16 A Yes. It was prior to the start of the 17 consent decree. 18 Q Okay. Can you describe what steps you 19 attribute to the decrease, or what actions or factors 20 you attribute to the decrease? 21 A We have a proactive inspection and 22 maintenance program. It's call our CMOM program that 23 we execute on a daily basis that is driving those 24 numbers lower. 25 Q Okay. And you anticipate further reductions MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 409 1 as the -- as the consent decree goes on? 2 A Minor reductions. You know, we started out 3 at a very high number, and we're kind of reaching the 4 view of the curve where it's harder and harder to 5 reduce those. It is weather-dependent as well. In 6 2018, we had a relatively dry year versus what's going 7 on right now. So it is weather-dependent, but our 8 CMOM program is driving those numbers down. 9 Q And a similar question regarding the dry 10 weather overflows. You've got those down -- down 50 11 percent over historic levels. Do you anticipate 12 further reductions there? 13 A I would foresee further reductions as we 14 continue with our maintenance program, and it's also 15 as the engineering department constructs and builds 16 larger sewers and everything like that, I would 17 foresee for those to go down. 18 Q Okay. 19 A They'll never get to zero, though. 20 Q I see. And as to the historic levels, do 21 you have those figures available? 22 A I have them available, and I'd be happy to 23 provide them to you. 24 Q Okay. Is that also right before the consent 25 decree, we were at the historic levels? MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 410 1 A It's -- you know, we've had for a long time 2 very high numbers. As we've improved our maintenance 3 program and proactively inspected our sewers, those 4 numbers have been driving lower and lower every year. 5 But, there again, there is some variability just due 6 to weather and circumstances. 7 Q I see. Okay. I think that's actually all I 8 have. 9 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Thank you, Mr. Malone. 10 Any questions from the commission at this 11 time? 12 Hearing none, Ms. Myers, do you have any 13 questions for the witness? 14 MS. MYERS: I do not. 15 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Thank you very much. 16 Are there any matters to come before the 17 commission before we adjourn? 18 COMMISSIONER TOENJES: When is our next 19 meeting scheduled? 20 COMMISSIONER HAWES: That's a good question. 21 When is our next meeting scheduled? 22 Mr. Malone. 23 MR. MALONE: May 9th. 24 COMMISSIONER HAWES: May 9th for rebuttal 25 testimony is our next meeting. Do we have a motion at MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 411 1 this time? 2 COMMISSIONER GOSS: Motion to adjourn. 3 COMMISSIONER HAWES: Second? 4 COMMISSIONER CROYLE: Second. 5 COMMISSIONER HAWES: All right. Motion 6 seconded. All in favor? 7 (Chorus of ayes.) 8 COMMISSIONER HAWES: All right. We are 9 adjourned. 10 (Whereupon, the MSD Hearing was adjourned at 11 3:30 p.m.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 412 1 REPORTER CERTIFICATE 2 I, REBECCA L. TUGGLE, a Registered 3 Professional Reporter, Certified Court Reporter, and Certified Shorthand Reporter within and for the State 4 of Missouri, do hereby certify that the MSD hearing held on April 9, 2019, commenced at Metropolitan St. 5 Louis Sewer District, 2350 Market Street, Room 109, St. Louis, Missouri 63103; that said hearing was 6 reported by myself, translated and proofread using computer-aided transcription; and the above transcript 7 of proceedings is a true and accurate transcript of my notes as taken at the time the proceedings were had. 8 I further certify that I am neither attorney nor counsel for nor related nor employed by any of the 9 parties to the action in which this hearing was taken; further, that I am not a relative or employee of any 10 attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto or financially interested in this action. 11 12 13 14 15 ________________________________ 16 Rebecca L. Tuggle, RPR, CCR, CSR 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES A AA 385:1 abandoned 395:22 ability 334:25 340:21 341:9 346:11,17 347:10 373:7 373:7 374:11 able 318:16 323:7 327:16 337:12,23 339:6,7 349:19 356:16 357:18 360:24 363:10 365:15 375:22 385:19 390:1 390:4 395:16 398:1,8 403:22 aboveground 394:20,21 396:1 accelerated 347:25 accept 340:22 acceptability 323:24 access 340:23 accomplished 389:12 account 391:13 accounted 325:10 accurate 359:24 393:5 412:7 acquiring 353:11 acquisition 353:10 Act 332:12 Acting 316:9 action 412:9,10 actions 408:19 activation 377:7 activations 376:13 activators 389:24 active 369:5 395:23 activities 345:15 353:6 356:25 actual 326:9 352:9 369:24 390:16 add 372:7 added 347:24 356:23 371:17 adding 371:14 372:10,11 addition 326:9 334:22,24 341:24 357:1 372:8 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380:1,23 396:23 397:7 Ann 394:19 annual 329:14 356:19 403:2 annually 402:14 answer 366:23 372:23 388:1 403:7 answered 337:24 374:13 answering 360:15 answers 334:10 anticipate 326:13 366:8 408:25 409:11 anticipated 324:2 333:3 368:18 anticipating 347:14 anymore 404:5 anyway 378:4 apartments 394:9 apologize 320:1 APPEARANC ... 315:1 316:1 appendix 320:18 389:8 applied 333:24 apply 348:4 349:23 appraisal 353:8 354:5,12 361:15 appraisals 355:15 appraised 353:12 appreciate 345:22 404:12 approach 341:14 approaching 395:25 appropriate 326:9,10,20 357:22 401:11 appropriated 326:3,17,20 appropriation 326:8 363:18 363:22 appropriations 369:19,22 401:9 approved 347:10 354:7 approximately 320:24 321:2 321:3 329:9 358:17 364:22 368:24 369:3 378:18 407:2 April 313:11 412:4 area 339:18 344:6,7 353:4 357:3 364:25 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 383:21 393:11 393:12,13,14 393:23 394:5 394:12,20,23 394:24 395:12 396:6 396:8,18 397:9,25 398:3,5,10 areas 338:17,18 348:23 351:9 374:11 379:3,9 380:3 394:19 arena 324:17 arms 401:16 arrived 323:7 arterial 380:17 ash 405:8,9 aside 330:11 asked 344:16 386:14 387:25 392:22 asking 319:16 350:9 371:18 371:18 384:9 aspects 340:11 assessment 323:10 331:16 357:8 391:19 403:14 assessments 343:13 asset 320:4,5 320:14,15 329:11 331:15 343:5 391:17 391:22 402:10 403:2,13,21 404:3 assets 328:10 328:13 assist 351:6 associated 320:9 323:6 328:20 364:5 365:2 369:16 389:15 392:25 407:10 assuming 329:10 403:1 assurance 337:19 339:25 assure 337:19 attention 350:14 attorney 315:2 315:6 412:8,10 attribute 408:19 408:20 attributed 359:2 available 322:22 323:11 347:17 354:1 381:25 382:3 384:12 387:19 409:21,22 averages 359:12,16 avoid 387:17 394:1 397:23 aware 348:14,18 ayes 411:7 B back 320:19 321:10 324:21 326:19 329:6 330:22 333:7 333:15,20 334:8 339:21 340:2 341:16 344:13,15 358:23 361:22 362:22 380:18 384:6 386:23 387:25 388:3 391:21 393:4 395:10 396:7 396:10,22 399:5,6,14,17 400:5,20 401:4 402:22 backing 335:7 backups 339:18 375:17 376:24 408:3,15 bad 384:14 Baer 315:3 bailiwick 368:22 bank 376:18 banks 384:13,13 Barracks 363:19 base 355:6 based 321:19 322:1,12,17 323:10 340:12 344:25 354:10,13 360:16 362:10 362:20 364:7 367:4,14 375:9 376:19 387:15,24 401:12 basement 408:3 basements 335:8 339:22 340:3 basically 320:10 342:25 386:2 393:9 399:6 399:13 basin 344:9 355:5 basing 323:17 basis 344:23 356:19 358:24 401:13 406:20 408:23 Bay 344:7 Beckmann 316:15 317:8,9 bed 332:3 333:13 BEGAN 317:1 behalf 319:8 believe 354:2 363:17,24 402:23 408:8 belowground 396:1,23 benefit 356:11 374:16 376:19 378:2 398:1 benefited 376:21 Berthold 314:10 356:16 357:18 405:23,25 406:4,6 407:23 best 322:3 329:22 333:25 349:23 370:20 371:25 better 333:15 338:19 355:1 357:20 376:16 384:4 beyond 348:18 376:4 bid 325:5,16,17 326:9,11,14,18 327:3 349:24 354:7 362:10 363:17 367:18 369:3 373:22 374:4 380:8 386:18 bidder 367:17 bidders 383:2 bidding 362:21 362:25 367:18 373:3 373:23 374:8 bids 322:15 324:4,21 325:1 327:16 350:1 362:17 382:17 383:12 383:16 big 368:8 371:8 381:4 385:14 399:2,20,21 400:15,16 401:15 403:15 403:16 billion 319:19 320:1 321:3 370:9 371:13 371:16 372:1,3 372:6,8,11,12 biosolids 404:23,23 Bissell 332:7 334:1 341:20 342:6,15 359:6 405:3 bit 319:22 331:13 349:18 363:5 366:15 369:14 382:1 383:5 390:7 391:17 401:4 bmalone@las... 315:5 board 326:19 361:22 369:23 395:8 395:14 396:10 BOD 340:11,17 358:14 bond 373:7 bonding 348:10 348:12 387:20 book 403:2 borings 397:2 borrowing 348:10 384:12 387:10,10 bottom 331:20 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 392:12 Bowdry 317:11 Brad 316:14 317:17 branches 336:2 Brandy 317:11 break 320:10 374:20 388:9 388:12,13 breakdown 319:23 320:20 Bresnan 317:14 Bret 314:10 403:7,7,13 405:22 Brian 315:2 323:25 brief 388:13 bring 318:15 324:17,24 328:14 333:1 351:8 361:22 367:15 379:16 386:11,14 390:14 391:21 398:14 bringing 401:5 Broadway 315:8 Brockmann 314:5,8 316:8 317:12,13 362:6,8 373:6 398:24 404:15,17 Brockmann's 397:8 broken 320:2,3 brought 334:2 392:24 Bryan 315:7 bucket 389:19 buckets 389:17 budget 323:1 329:10,15,22 391:15 budgeted 354:18 buffer 327:15 build 342:9,14 346:25 373:14 395:16 397:3 building 353:2 375:16 376:17 376:24 390:8 398:3,9 builds 409:15 buildup 392:10 built 333:7,7 390:18,20 bulk 345:12 400:24 bunch 386:17 burn 332:10 buy 394:9 byproduct 332:10 404:20 405:8 C C 389:11 C-1 389:1,9,14 389:22 call 317:3,6 324:12 330:4 330:11 338:8 352:5 374:22 380:5 385:10 389:17 405:21 408:22 called 332:13 337:19 cancel 360:24 capacities 337:20 capacity 320:4 331:24 334:16 334:19,20 335:4,13,17,18 336:23 337:10,15,18 337:19 339:25 340:19,20 341:1,2,17,22 364:14,16 373:4,8 375:8 379:11,13 381:12 385:20 385:23 387:10,20 capital 324:1 330:20 331:23 335:22 341:11 346:25 349:7 358:16,21 359:23 368:15 374:17 374:18 378:8 382:16 384:7 387:24 389:1 390:9 393:3 capture 397:10 captures 364:4 care 403:3 case 399:21,22 cases 325:7 336:25 339:6 339:7,20 340:23 357:4 369:13 390:17 cash 401:13 categories 320:3,11 354:4 358:17 374:20 375:9 category 335:21 366:18 cause 336:8 393:15,18,21 caused 358:15 Cave 315:7 CCR 313:19 412:16 CCTV 330:7,18 356:23 378:22 CD 330:10,22 330:22 370:25 402:10,25 century 390:21 certain 325:17 335:11 337:21 339:16 340:15 346:20 356:15 379:9 383:18 385:18 389:18 391:18 CERTIFICATE 412:1 Certified 412:3 412:3 certify 412:4,8 Chair 316:9 Chairman 318:11 Chan 316:13 317:20 change 317:5 325:15 326:19 329:3 346:10 346:13,16 347:9 350:15 355:23 379:15 380:10 380:12 changed 327:5 changes 327:15 406:22 channel 353:17 characterizati ... 382:8 cheaper 345:4 check 371:21 Chesapeake 344:7 Chorus 411:7 CIPP 327:1 351:11 circuit 357:12,15 circumstances 348:8 410:6 CIRP 319:17,25 320:21 328:5 329:3,10 330:2,13 331:7 331:23 334:9 339:9 347:23 348:6 354:19 355:14,16,22 359:23 368:10,16,21 368:25 369:7 370:14,18,22 372:2,3,21 379:22 382:15,21,24 383:3 384:21 385:8,13,19 387:2,11 388:4 400:8,11,19 city 320:5 392:22 393:2 393:7,8 394:6 394:6 395:3 395:24 396:5 396:11,25 clarifier 342:5 359:3 Clayton 392:23 Clean 332:12 cleaning 379:6 clear 354:15 clearly 339:15 close 325:4 328:1 369:5 381:9 393:16 closed 357:12 357:15 closer 371:1 closest 362:21 CMOM 406:22 408:22 409:8 COD 358:14 Coldwater 342:4,15 359:4 collapsed 330:15 384:7 collection 330:14 355:25 402:17 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES combine 338:17 387:9 397:11 combined 320:6 321:9 322:11 334:4 341:21,23 353:4 357:3 364:4 393:12 393:18 396:18 397:8,9,10,12 401:2 combining 338:22 come 319:11 323:8 329:1 336:7,13 345:7,18 351:25 353:20 380:18 389:17 389:25 400:15 403:21 405:24 406:8 407:19 410:16 comes 327:3 336:1 351:12 393:9 396:17 coming 324:24 327:3 333:18 336:16 339:23 340:22,24 343:15 365:18 371:9 401:16 401:16 402:22 commenced 412:4 commercial 384:5 395:21 395:23 commission 315:5 317:3 319:2 346:9 349:13 358:4 386:6,9 387:15 404:14 406:3 410:10 410:17 Commissioner 314:4,5,5,6,6 314:7,7,8 317:2,8,9,10,11 317:13,14,16,17 317:19,20,21 317:22,23,24 317:25 318:1,2 318:3,6,7,8,9 318:12,19,24 319:1,7,11 345:21 358:3 358:7,9 359:18,20 362:5,8 367:25 368:1 368:3,6 388:6 388:9,11,14,18 388:20 398:18,22 400:13 401:21 402:1 404:11 404:13,17 405:14,18,24 406:2,8 407:14,19 410:9,15,18,20 410:24 411:2,3 411:4,5,8 COMMISSIO ... 316:3 community 373:9 385:24 compare 380:19,25 compared 349:6 408:9 competition 324:19 325:2 383:2 complaint 381:20 complete 332:25 381:8 402:25 completely 345:11 completing 386:24 complexities 327:22 complexity 367:4 compliance 330:23 331:2 complicated 327:24 complications 383:18 comply 346:20 346:23,25 368:11 369:7 370:3,8 382:7 402:10 components 331:22 composed 368:10 comprehensive 333:21 344:21 344:24 computer-aid ... 412:6 conceivably 362:25 concept 322:10 conceptual 323:19 333:17 360:2 378:13 378:17 380:11 381:15 397:21 concerned 383:21 400:14 concerns 396:4 concrete 390:25 405:10 condition 328:16 331:16 333:6 343:13 357:8 391:19 403:14 conditions 394:22 CONFERENCE 313:2 confidence 323:14 confident 345:17 connected 336:14 consensus 386:6 consent 320:11 320:12,23 321:4 322:7 324:20 326:4 328:7,14 329:5,19,21 331:4 334:24 337:16 343:9 345:12,13 346:20,21 349:2 353:2 356:14 357:11 361:2 363:7 368:11 369:8 370:3,9 371:10 371:23 372:1,7 376:2 378:6 379:4 382:18 384:17,18 385:11 386:5 388:1 399:4 399:18 408:17 409:1,24 conservative 326:6 327:18 consider 349:13 387:23 consideration 366:12,14 373:10 385:25 399:25 405:13 considerations 393:1 considered 328:17 346:9 347:3 consistency 324:23 consistent 383:14 consistently 324:4 382:20 constituent-b... 340:5 constituents 339:16 constraints 374:7 380:15 380:16 construct 373:12,18 398:10 constructed 339:21 constructing 349:14 construction 324:18 349:22 351:5 351:6,10,14,23 352:10,11 354:12 355:22 363:11 363:16,16,23 365:17 366:24 369:25 383:22 397:15 399:12 constructs 409:15 consultant 321:24 350:5 396:14 consultants 322:21 352:4 352:22 consumed 353:21 Consumers 315:10 319:9 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES contingency 325:14 326:10 326:16,21 continue 324:19 346:24 409:14 CONTINUED 316:1 continuously 328:21 347:7 349:21 357:19 contract 352:2 352:5,14 353:7,18 361:24,25 367:21 369:24 374:12 contracted 356:24,24 contracting 373:9 contractor 326:14 350:5 351:20 383:20 contractors 353:15 354:8 366:16 373:6 374:4 contracts 353:13 355:11 361:18 369:25 control 344:3 345:4 365:19 381:6,6 393:20 controls 391:10 conversations 396:3 convey 365:14 conveyance 365:6,13 366:1 392:7 Corps 394:7,8 correct 319:20 319:21 331:9 339:16 347:15 347:16 348:17 354:18 368:12 368:19,20 370:3,6,7,11,12 371:22 382:21 382:24 383:4 389:13,14 399:23 406:18 correctly 376:25 correlation 340:16 corrosion 391:2 corrosive 390:22 cost 319:19,25 321:17,19,24 323:19 327:2 349:14 354:13 358:12,16,21 360:7,19 363:8,17,17 364:18 368:16 370:1,9 372:1 374:16 376:19 376:20 378:2 378:8,13,17,17 379:19 380:6 380:6 382:15 385:7 401:6 cost-wise 391:21 costly 345:6 costs 319:23 321:6,15,15,20 324:1,17 325:10,13 345:3,17 354:20 355:15,22 372:23 378:15 380:17 384:12 389:25 406:17,21,23 407:3,5,7,9,10 counsel 315:11 318:18 412:8 412:10 country 322:2 322:23 County 363:21 364:8 couple 339:11 363:6 369:5 387:1 402:6 course 353:20 Court 412:3 cover 383:25 create 332:10 377:24 created 320:22 335:10 343:8 376:16 creating 367:1 367:14 388:4 creek 336:15 363:23,25 364:5 365:11 374:1 394:13 399:20 Crestwood 398:3 crews 353:25 criteria 346:16 criticality 351:18 Croyle 316:5 317:15,16 411:4 CSO 321:12 328:19 329:8 364:2,2,20 381:5 382:6 386:21 392:13 399:15,16 CSR 313:19 412:16 current 325:11 348:4 364:8 365:3 366:25 370:20,22 386:12 currently 332:8 346:19,22 352:14 363:15 363:15,22 364:11 369:2 curve 409:4 cushion 385:4 cycle 319:18 321:7,16 327:13 331:12 334:5 342:3 342:23,24 343:3 347:15 347:25 348:16,19 352:1 359:9,11 361:1 370:24 371:4,11 373:23 374:15 379:22 385:6 386:12,12,15 387:11,18,23 399:4,5,8,10 400:2,21,21 401:18 402:5 403:12 404:10 cycles 371:12 384:6 387:20 D D 314:1 388:24 389:2,8,10 daily 408:23 data 355:24 378:21,23 380:4 database 327:7 381:24,24 databases 327:10 days 385:3 deadline 400:24 dealing 325:13 351:15 368:25 390:22 debris 392:12 392:14 debt 348:6 decided 334:2 decline 385:17 decrease 408:19,20 decree 320:11 320:12,23 321:4 322:7 322:10 324:20 326:4 328:7,14 329:5,20,21 331:4 334:24 337:16 343:10 345:12,13 346:20,21 349:2 353:3 356:14 357:11 361:2 363:7 368:11 369:8 370:3,9 371:11 371:23 372:2 372:3,7 376:2 378:6 379:4 382:18 384:17 384:18 385:11 386:5 388:1 399:4,18 408:17 409:1 409:25 decree-related 370:18 deep 394:16 Deer 363:23,25 365:11 373:25 399:20 defined 328:18 328:19 329:7 defining 321:14 definitely 405:11 delayed 344:20 department 409:15 depending 365:18 367:2 Des 364:21,25 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 365:8 393:9 393:10 399:2 401:3 describe 408:18 described 350:19 381:1,2 383:1 description 338:10 design 323:22 342:11 351:1 352:1,4,7,9,18 352:19,20,24 352:25 353:17,18 354:2,12,17 354:20 355:4 360:9,14 362:19 369:20,24 378:19 379:20,23,24 380:12,18 394:13 404:25 405:12 designed 355:20 365:13 designing 353:2 379:25 386:25 detail 363:14 377:10 detailed 380:24 382:9 details 343:6 determination 347:3 determine 321:5 322:6 335:12,17 336:23 337:9 338:14 346:16 357:22 376:23 386:13 determined 366:20 372:24 374:19 determines 404:3 determining 321:17 develop 335:19 375:23 developed 321:10,11 323:9 329:5 331:14 333:21 333:25 340:7 344:22,25 360:6 378:13 385:9 386:2 387:24 397:20 402:10 developing 322:4 379:25 development 381:5,15 404:23 diameter 357:2 357:17,17 363:24 364:3 364:17 365:1 dictate 357:11 difference 381:4 different 336:3 338:18 366:17 374:22 391:7 391:7 395:11 differently 361:19 difficult 325:8 385:21 403:8 direct 346:6 350:14 358:10 365:14 368:7 368:9 407:25 direction 387:14 director 318:23 405:23 discovery 320:20 325:21 343:6 343:18 367:6 discussed 369:14 discussion 343:19 349:10 367:11 discussions 350:1 359:14 367:13,14 373:5 404:22 405:7 disinfection 341:25 district 313:1,2 315:12,15 317:4 321:20 326:7,17 332:6,16 333:2 341:16 344:20 346:19,20,21 346:24 348:14 349:13 349:20 350:24 351:5 351:9 352:13 353:1,9,11,24 354:6 356:14 356:18,22 357:2,6,21 364:20 368:25 371:23 379:3 384:25 387:6 387:22 388:25 395:10 396:9 404:24 412:5 district's 346:11 346:17 347:10 349:15 352:18 368:17 district-wide 320:7 document 350:6 354:21 documentation 337:18 DOCUMENTS 313:3 doing 320:25 323:18 326:23 328:12 329:12 330:7 331:16 334:7 337:1 341:17 343:8 343:13,14 353:21 356:12 361:3 372:15 380:1 381:8 385:6 396:21 396:22 397:6 403:12,21 dollar 403:16 dollars 331:4 333:17,20 370:10 371:13 371:16,17 372:3 401:11 407:2 domain 395:16 Don 317:14 double-digit 386:3 down 320:10 323:24 324:17 333:19 336:1 360:5 364:12 393:9,17 397:4 404:1 409:8,10,10,17 downspout 336:14 downspouts 360:22 downstream 393:15,21,25 394:1 396:15 396:16,17 dozen 369:22 drainage 346:11 drains 393:8 drawings 380:9 drilling 352:16 driver 368:17 drivers 374:23 driving 358:21 408:23 409:8 410:4 drove 376:12,14 dry 409:6,9 due 320:15 333:6 410:5 duly 318:25 406:1 E E 314:1 earlier 351:21 360:21 362:9 369:14 373:5 378:25 382:13 398:23 early 341:17 389:20 easement 353:10 easements 353:11,12 easiest 335:24 easy 324:7 386:16 387:1 economy 384:15 effect 340:13 362:19 376:17 effects 344:9 efficient 333:14 349:17 357:16 efficiently 347:7 effluent 343:21 344:1 effort 370:3,8 386:4 eight 400:4,7 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 404:8 either 328:7 331:4 335:5 elaborate 372:24 392:25 403:13 electrical 342:13 351:16 391:10 407:9 electricity 407:10 elevate 383:24 eliminate 335:6 364:10,15 369:21 374:6 eliminating 334:22 eminent 395:16 emphasizes 368:15 employed 412:8,10 employee 412:9 ends 321:2 Energy 315:10 engineering 318:23 322:4 325:4 349:23 350:2 353:23 354:11 361:16 362:13 369:24 377:9 380:23 409:15 Engineers 394:7,8 enhance 346:17 ensure 334:25 347:6 349:14 381:18 enter 367:21 entered 370:25 entire 335:9 337:16 356:20 375:3 404:24 entry 357:5 environment 375:12 376:24 377:6 390:23 environmental 376:3 EPA 334:9,14 375:21 387:25 389:24 equipment 351:15,16,16 erosion 376:18 escalation 361:14 essentially 330:22 335:9 363:25 372:10 379:14 381:19 estimate 321:25 323:19 324:7 324:8 325:9 326:11 343:25 355:9 360:7 360:12 362:20,20 364:18 365:3 371:25 374:2 380:6,6 390:12 391:19 estimated 319:17,19 343:20 370:9 377:8 estimates 321:18,19 322:4 323:15 325:3,4 327:17,18 328:1 359:21 359:24 362:18 363:11 378:10,11 379:19 event 335:1,3,3 335:5,11,11 336:4,5 337:13 341:7 348:25 392:8 392:14 395:2 events 322:9 335:22 337:21,22 340:3 eventually 404:2 everybody's 336:1 exact 356:16,17 367:5 exactly 323:9 341:14 345:10 EXAMINATION 319:12 346:1 358:8 359:19 362:7 368:5 388:19 398:21 401:24 404:16 406:9 407:21 examples 335:20 338:2 350:22 excavation 322:14 exceed 329:16 341:1 excessive 387:17 exclude 359:11 excluded 354:20 excuse 326:25 execute 408:23 executive 377:11 388:22 exhibit 334:12 377:3 389:5 exist 396:15 existing 328:15 394:2 exists 337:1 expand 349:19 expect 383:11 expended 326:5 372:5 expenditures 368:18 expenses 343:19 experience 362:10 373:3 experienced 360:18 expert 333:11 343:7 expertise 351:9 351:14 352:6 352:22 353:5 explain 324:2 332:5 334:17 347:23 350:21 356:2 356:10 406:20 explained 360:21 extend 391:21 extended 391:14 extension 352:6,7 353:17 399:17 extensive 375:16 379:6 extent 339:3 353:25 379:9 extents 337:10 external 385:22 extreme 337:22 F facilities 323:11 349:15 365:20 366:11 facility 323:23 390:18 391:7 395:16 397:13 397:24 398:4 facility-related 346:12 fact 341:21 347:19 361:21 368:14 373:6 386:9 factors 346:9 347:2,4 349:12 358:15 376:18,22 408:19 failure 331:2 343:1 391:24 391:24 fair 372:13 382:8,12 384:22,23 fairly 345:6 fall 335:21 338:3 far 321:10 339:9 341:16 351:18 379:18 391:2 392:10 398:11 399:25 favor 411:6 feel 325:5 345:8 feeling 318:17 fees 361:16 felt 333:5 349:8 387:14 394:24 394:25 395:19 FEMA 394:7 Fenton 364:9 364:10 figure 340:12 figures 355:16 409:21 filter 342:6 359:6 final 327:2 362:19 379:25 380:6 380:9 finance 385:15 financial 329:5 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 329:8 345:9 368:17 384:19 385:10 financially 334:7 412:10 find 328:15 336:11 370:19 400:6 fine 326:2 384:3 388:8 firm 361:25 first 320:20 324:20 329:19 332:1 341:21 360:4 360:13 375:25 376:1 399:20 400:25 fiscal 321:13 354:18 358:18 358:18,24 368:18,19 387:9 five 325:1 399:17 five-year 335:11 343:1 400:2 fix 330:15,16 flat 361:16 flexibility 357:21 389:19 flipped 399:13 flood 321:1 395:1 flooded 394:24 flooding 376:17 376:17 floodplain 394:5 395:5 398:7,9 floods 396:8 floor 318:15 flow 340:22,23 340:25 341:6 341:9,13 365:14,16,20 365:21 366:2 375:4 378:22 380:4 381:9 390:14 393:10 393:13 394:4 396:17 401:13 flow-metering 335:14 flow-monitori ... 337:2,2 flows 336:1 337:6 341:16 359:3 360:17 365:17,18 393:17,20,20 fluctuating 385:21 fluctuation 385:15 fluidized 332:3 333:13 folks 352:18 354:2 389:10 398:6 405:3 follow 344:3 388:21 following 343:23 364:24 foresee 343:15 409:13,17 forever 395:13 forth 356:1 fortunate 324:11 Forty-three 350:17 forward 405:24 406:8 407:9 407:20 fought 344:13 found 327:1 337:5 338:19 343:24 361:19 373:16 379:2 four 320:2 321:9 326:24 331:14,18 359:22 360:1 360:3,18 363:1 370:20 371:12 375:9 377:1 386:19 400:10 403:11 403:24 four-year 319:18 321:7,16 324:1 331:12 342:3 371:4 374:10 379:22 387:3 frequency 377:7 front 386:24 fruition 401:17 402:7 full 381:11 fully 341:8 353:21 fumes 332:11 functional 358:17 fund 348:6 401:7 funded 348:9,9 360:2 funding 347:14 347:17 348:5 361:23 381:25 382:3 387:18 399:24 funds 373:25 394:7 furor 401:14 further 318:20 362:5 367:24 398:19 405:14 408:25 409:12,13 412:8,9 future 343:15,19 348:14 371:7 372:9 386:12 391:20 396:5 397:8 398:25 G Galleria 364:1 garden 355:2 gardens 353:3 geared 324:24 Gee 384:24 400:9 general 315:11 350:18,21,25 351:4 367:10 386:5 generally 321:15 322:10 322:19 325:3 325:5,16 326:8 327:2 338:5,10,16 338:25 340:9 340:25 351:10 355:3,10,19 355:20 360:4 360:12 361:17 365:11 366:23 376:7,12,14 378:12,15 379:21 380:7 380:10 382:17 385:16 386:25 390:12 geotech 361:15 geotechnical 352:12,13,15 352:17 354:5 355:14 380:14 394:14,14 Gerald 316:15 getting 325:18 336:12 351:3 362:11 375:17 375:19 385:22 403:6 give 335:20 338:2 339:3 350:1,22 356:16 361:4 363:11 367:5 367:6 376:5 392:11 give-and-take 327:25 gives 334:13 353:22 glanced 359:15 go 321:17 323:21,24 326:19 327:4 329:18 331:6 336:10,17 351:2 355:8 358:23 361:21 362:22 368:1 368:3 372:20 372:25 377:13 379:14,19,21 381:20 387:15 389:19 395:14 396:8,10 402:22 403:24 404:1 404:8 409:17 go-ahead 361:5 goes 335:25 340:18 342:17 377:9 409:1 going 319:19,24 321:6 325:5 327:24 329:12 330:8 330:9 333:9 334:3 335:6 336:10 337:22,23 340:2 343:11 344:16 349:7 351:2,19 353:10 355:14 362:24 363:10 370:5 371:5 373:17 374:4,12,20 384:6 385:17 385:19 387:2 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 388:14 390:2 390:25 396:7 397:16,21,22 398:13 399:1 399:25 400:5 402:16 407:9 407:11 409:6 good 319:1,14,15 324:16,19,19 338:21 346:3 346:5 350:1 361:20 363:1 382:5,6,17,23 383:1,12,16 384:25 395:19 403:4 404:6 406:11 406:12 407:23,24 410:20 Goss 314:6 316:14 317:17 368:3 388:7,9 388:16,18,20 398:18 411:2 Gotcha 331:6 grant 347:14,16 347:22 348:5 grants 347:21 gravity 365:21 366:2 390:15 Great 344:6 green 352:23 353:1,3 grit 392:9 GSA 361:12 guess 332:1 348:7 362:14 400:13,16 guessing 369:3 369:10 Gulf 344:9 guy 385:15 H half 364:3 369:22 371:13 371:16 372:2,7 372:11,12 401:5 handle 333:22 334:18 handling 337:13 344:25 404:24 handy 350:16 happen 334:3 334:23 361:1 361:24 378:3 399:25 happened 327:6 342:21 394:4 397:19 398:3 happening 337:3 344:4,5 384:14 happy 395:12 409:22 hard 396:25 harder 409:4,4 Hawes 316:9 317:2,18,19 318:12,19,24 319:1,7,11 345:21 358:3 359:18 362:5 367:25 388:6 388:11,14 398:18 401:21 404:13 405:14 405:18,24 406:2,8 407:14,19 410:9,15,20 410:24 411:3,5 411:8 Hazelwood 394:20 398:2 head 358:22 408:7 headquartered 324:14 health 377:6 hear 362:11 376:25 heard 359:7 367:8 hearing 319:4 359:14 365:6 410:12 411:10 412:4,5,9 held 412:4 help 343:10 360:19 helpful 334:11 374:14,14 helps 331:17 383:11 Heman 396:24 hereto 412:10 hey 344:14 high 363:3 367:9 384:11 384:12 389:24 408:11 408:12 409:3 410:2 higher 325:6 327:24 375:15 377:19,20 highest 377:23 385:1 highlighted 389:23 hire 352:22 hired 321:24 historic 322:13 408:10,11,12 409:11,20,25 historical 321:19 327:19 historically 382:15 384:18 384:20 history 393:7 hit 344:2 345:17 373:7 hitting 349:6 Hoelscher 392:22 403:5 hold 353:16 365:15 373:20 392:8 393:20 394:15 402:12 homes 375:18 394:23 395:11 honest 387:12 hope 334:10 337:24 340:9 342:11 374:13 390:17 hopefully 404:1 horizon 348:19 horribles 384:11 houses 338:11 huge 390:11 human 377:6 hundred 342:10 342:12 369:5 390:19 391:4 hundred-year 390:17 395:2 hundreds 330:6 hydraulic 335:16 380:1 I I&I 336:13,14,18 337:7,8 338:9 338:12,24 339:4,5 360:20,21 369:17,17 375:5 idea 344:2 406:25 identification 328:6,17 identified 326:13 328:7 329:11,14,17 331:10,13 335:18 369:12 371:8 376:22 378:20 388:25,25 389:10 394:3 394:25 identify 328:22 330:8,9,13 336:22 380:15 381:12 identifying 381:8 II 313:9 impact 335:10 347:23 349:6 349:7 375:11 376:23 impacts 335:2 336:4 344:21 379:8 implemented 343:5 349:1 imposed 348:15 improved 410:2 improvement 330:20 335:22 341:12 368:15 390:9 393:3 improvements 331:24 333:16 334:17 342:4 346:25 389:1 in-between 325:23 in-house 352:18,19 354:2 incineration 331:25 332:2 incinerator 322:20,24 332:14,25 333:11,13 349:4 359:11 371:6 372:8 incinerators 332:3,8,15,18 332:21,23 334:1 399:11 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 401:5 404:18 405:1,9 include 326:12 404:9 included 342:2 355:16 363:7 402:11 includes 330:17 365:4 including 378:24 increasability 334:18 increase 337:6 358:13,15,21 402:4 increased 334:18 358:17 387:10 increases 325:2 386:3 increasing 341:22 396:20 incurred 349:16 indicate 370:2 indicates 358:13 individual 354:19 355:5 369:22,24 377:13,17 industrial 315:10 319:8 398:2,5 industry 321:23 324:13,22 344:13 infiltration 336:13 inflow 336:13 338:10 information 322:21 323:10 327:20 356:2 357:9,19 375:22 380:25 infrastructure 330:12,14,18 342:16 352:21 352:24 353:1 353:3,19 initial 333:2 inspect 356:14 356:15,19 357:14 406:24 inspected 342:19 410:3 inspecting 328:21 335:15 342:19 inspection 329:12 351:10 351:11,14,18 356:1,1 357:13 408:21 inspections 328:12,13 330:7 338:13 351:7 instance 354:16 instances 329:17 337:11 357:2 391:22 insurance 366:16,18,21 366:24 367:1 367:4,7,8,13 367:17,23 373:8 insured 367:23 intensive 379:4 interest 384:11 384:18 385:7 interested 383:3 412:10 internal 355:21 356:22 357:6 385:22 internally 352:24 353:7 356:15 385:20 interval 375:18 391:19 intrigued 363:5 invest 344:16 invested 332:22 investigating 328:21 330:6 404:20 investigation 375:5 investment 331:24 involved 347:20 issue 328:22 344:7 379:12 381:21 issues 336:9 337:10 364:16 366:8 379:13 381:12 392:24 396:16 it'll 338:8,8 339:3 399:21 item 325:17 items 325:16 347:1 362:10 iterative 398:12 J J 315:2 Jack 316:7 318:5 Jefferson 363:19 Jerry 317:8 job 327:21 374:4,5 jobs 327:22 383:11,16 John 316:7 joints 336:16 Jones 314:3,10 315:6 319:6,6 319:7,10,13 345:21 349:19 406:5,7,10 407:15 judgment 377:9 jump 386:7 justice 392:24 K Kami 319:6 kami.jones@b... 315:9 Kamilah 315:6 keep 324:15 336:7 381:16 394:15 keeping 327:14 key 394:3 kind 323:2,4 326:6 331:10 334:13,13 337:24 338:2 338:3 340:10 342:13,17 345:13 359:15 371:9 384:21 391:13,16 394:12 396:7 396:24 409:3 knew 329:12 385:17 402:19 402:21 know 324:9 327:16,23 330:4,5,8 335:16 336:3 338:1 340:6,7 341:2 342:8 343:7 349:25 356:15 361:19 364:18 365:4 366:20,22 367:2 369:15 369:22 370:14,16,20 370:21 372:21 373:3,8,11,13 373:15 374:3 374:14 376:15 377:3,10 381:9 381:17 382:2,7 383:6,11,15,20 383:22 390:14,16,20 390:23,24,24 391:3 397:20 397:25 398:15,24,25 399:19 400:1 400:3,14 403:7,20 408:7,12 409:2 410:1 knowing 335:15 402:16 403:3 L L 313:19 314:3 316:7 412:2,16 lack 354:25 376:16 lake 344:6 Lakes 344:6 land 333:24 landscape 352:25 354:16,20 landscaping 353:6 354:5 355:3 361:15 large 341:2 357:4 364:20 366:10,11 369:15 373:21 373:22,22 386:22 388:2 399:9,19 401:3 402:6 large-scale 367:3 larger 331:9,11 338:16,19 340:25 341:16 357:2,17 374:12 376:3 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 390:19 392:1 398:10 401:7 409:16 largest 322:21 331:22 370:24 373:24 Lashly 315:3 lasted 375:5 390:21 lasts 361:25 latest 360:7 Law 315:2,6 leaders 324:12 324:13 leave 325:14 338:23 left 372:6 legislators 347:18 legwork 381:16 Lemay 332:7 334:1 341:20 341:23 342:1 363:20 364:23,24 Len 317:10 length 373:11 Leonard 316:10 318:7 let's 328:19 368:21 370:1 388:11 397:16 397:17 letting 401:15 level 323:14,19 323:24 330:20 335:17 337:21 345:15 360:2 360:3,5 380:13 385:18 400:19 403:18 levels 408:10 409:11,20,25 liability 367:10 life 342:14,19 352:1 371:24 382:18 390:10 390:17 391:14 391:20,21 392:2 401:11 402:18 likes 336:17 limit 347:10 limited 347:16 353:24 limits 344:1 345:1 line 327:4,4 338:13 367:15 linear 328:13 lined 327:7 lines 329:2 lining 324:11 327:11 330:9 330:17 379:7 383:8 liquidity 384:25 385:3 Lisa 318:16 list 354:7 359:5 375:7 listed 355:13,16 375:10 listing 338:8 356:6 386:13 literally 381:5 LITIGATION 313:20 little 319:22 327:23 331:13 332:5 334:17 334:19 349:18 351:17 359:8 363:5 366:15 369:14 377:10 380:23 382:1 383:5 390:7 391:17 393:7 401:4 403:9 lives 391:7 Lloyd 316:16 317:24 Lloyd's 388:21 LLP 315:7 loan 347:21 loans 348:2 384:13 local 324:16 348:22 373:4 373:5,9 located 336:15 location 356:3 393:24 394:3 394:3,10,17 395:20 396:2 396:17 398:16 locations 323:12 366:12 Locust 315:3 lone 336:17 long 345:9 364:3,22 390:21 410:1 long-term 381:6 381:6 longer 403:4 look 325:16 329:7 330:13 330:23 337:4 340:20,21 347:19 348:2 348:7 349:5 356:23 357:16,20 358:23 359:12,25 373:18 374:6 378:19,21 385:18 389:2 392:6 396:2 396:11,14,19,19 400:5 402:22 403:10 405:11 looked 333:8,15 333:24 339:23 359:8 366:25 375:14,21 376:17 377:16 377:18 389:9 394:18 looking 323:19 325:21 328:3 330:6,6 331:19 342:25 350:10,14 351:13 355:2 358:25 360:12 371:3 375:3 389:5,6 390:15 391:4 391:9 395:18 395:25 397:14 404:24 405:1 looks 331:15 lose 324:15 lot 329:12 336:25 341:14 341:15 344:10 344:17 352:2 362:14 365:1 381:16 390:16 395:21 Louis 313:1,22 315:4,8,12,13 315:14 317:4 322:15 324:14 412:5,5 low 382:15 384:18,20,20 385:7 408:3 lower 324:2,4 327:16 341:19 362:11,16 364:12 382:15 382:17,20 385:7 387:21 406:19,20 407:5,7 408:24 410:4 410:4 lowered 325:10 406:23 lowers 325:2 lump 355:8 M M 315:11 Macklind 364:25 Mahanta 316:13 317:20,21 Mahfood 316:12 317:22,23 main 335:25 347:4 374:23 391:8 393:9 maintain 346:24 383:23 385:12,16 386:8 387:21 388:4 406:23 406:24 maintaining 349:15 392:3 maintenance 347:5,6 379:4 379:12 391:5 392:11 406:16 407:4 408:22 409:14 410:2 major 320:10 324:5 332:6 334:4 359:1 375:2 380:16 393:24 403:15 majority 345:11 348:9 365:6 making 335:22 341:12 347:3 383:9 384:13 Maline 363:16 364:2,4 mall-type 395:22 Malone 314:4,11 315:2 318:14 318:16,19 345:23,25 346:2 350:8 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 350:10,13 357:25 358:3 407:16,18,22 410:9,22,23 manage 365:15 365:20 management 320:4,5,14,15 331:15 343:5 351:5,23 352:2 354:12 391:18,22 402:11 403:2 403:13,22 404:4 managing 365:17 manhole 335:6 336:17 339:21 manholes 338:15 383:9 manned 357:4 manner 349:17 385:21 Marion 400:5 Mark 316:11 318:3 market 315:12 325:15 362:25 412:5 markets 384:7 master 321:11,11 321:12 335:19 369:11 375:10 377:2 378:14 378:21 381:14 389:4 394:11 matrix 367:1,14 376:16 matter 361:14 matters 318:14 318:20 410:16 mean 327:25 329:2 340:16 364:23 373:2 379:15 383:18 390:10 392:4 meant 390:2 measure 381:21 measures 349:14 mechanical 342:12 351:15 391:10 media 342:6 359:5 meet 331:2 332:18 337:20 347:8 361:11 374:9 401:1 meeting 313:8 317:3 378:6 410:19,21,25 meets 337:18 member 319:2 358:4 406:3 mention 378:25 mentioned 359:21 399:1 403:5 Meramec 341:19 364:12 met 375:21 metering 378:22 380:4 meters 379:10 381:9 method 349:3 357:22 394:18 metric 339:15 metrics 346:15 Metropolitan 313:1 315:7,12 315:14 317:4 412:4 Mexico 344:9 Mickey 316:5 317:15 middle 325:6 MIEC 348:20 mile 364:3 miles 330:7 356:21 364:22 million 320:1,24 321:2 326:5 329:10,11 332:18 334:6 343:20 344:1 355:24 359:9 359:13 363:18 363:22,24 365:3 367:10 370:23 371:2 371:3,10,11 372:9 374:2 401:10,10 402:14,15 403:20 407:2 Milwaukee 404:21 mind 327:14,17 360:15 381:17 388:10 mine 368:4 374:23 minimal 380:24 minor 326:19 333:16 409:2 minus 323:20 Mississippi 344:8 Missouri 315:10 319:8 341:18 412:4,5 mitigated 345:2 MO 313:22 315:4,8,13 model 329:6,8 360:10 385:10 399:24 400:4 400:11,12 402:20,23 modeled 335:9 modeling 336:22 models 335:16 337:14 402:9 modification 332:13 modify 387:6 monetized 343:8 money 330:2 355:1 362:1 370:13 387:19 401:12 monies 330:10 384:12 monitor 336:20 345:14,15 347:17 391:1 monitoring 336:21 337:1,9 339:6 348:22 351:19 360:23 361:3 375:4,13 motion 410:25 411:2,5 move 351:24 352:12 362:3 379:23 386:10 387:2 387:25 399:14 404:25 moved 386:21 386:22,23 387:4 388:2,3 moving 349:4 396:15,16 400:12 401:4 MSD 321:5,17 322:6 382:14 383:3 411:10 412:4 multi-decade 370:2,8 372:1 multiple 335:14 336:2 353:13 355:8 361:18 374:11 383:10 401:8 municipality 398:13 Myers 315:11 318:21,22 350:6,9,12 405:15,17,21 405:22 410:12 410:14 N N 313:21 314:1 name 318:21 319:5 338:7 339:3 363:9 371:19 nation 348:24 national 345:14 necessarily 360:11 395:2 necessary 324:14 346:25 382:7 necessitate 349:1,9 need 327:14 329:1 331:17 333:3 348:12 352:1,21 354:6 361:23 371:24 377:23 381:18 388:9 393:19 404:18 needed 328:5 334:3 377:22 neither 333:12 412:8 Neuschafer 319:4 never 409:19 new 328:15 332:19 333:1 333:10,18,20 334:1 360:17 378:21 newer 341:19 357:20 nitrogen 344:10 non 370:17 non-CD 370:24 371:13 402:3 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES non-consent 372:3 Nonconsent 370:18 normal 402:7 north 315:8 408:13 notes 412:7 notice 361:13 noticed 322:25 323:1 number 324:21 329:20 339:18 356:4 361:13 368:25 369:9,11,12 373:4 376:18 377:3 383:2 384:6 385:2 394:23 402:3 408:3 409:3 numbers 322:25 323:2 323:3,5,7 326:6 333:21 359:14,23 361:20 362:14 362:16,23 363:2 367:5 408:4,11,24 409:8 410:2,4 nutrient 343:20 344:1,3,7 348:21,21 nutrients 344:11 344:21,22 371:7 402:21 O o'clock 317:2 obtain 373:8 obvious 333:8 obviously 320:20 322:2 323:23 331:1 332:10 333:14 335:1,6 337:21 341:19 349:21 357:15 359:1 360:9 370:20 373:21 375:15 378:6 379:24 386:21 387:25 390:19,24 391:1,5 395:20,24 399:20 402:16 403:15 405:8 occasionally 391:5 392:11 398:14 occur 327:15 odor 366:8,12 offhand 356:4 366:20 oh 339:13 350:10 356:6 365:25 397:22 okay 322:24 326:1 327:14 328:2,4,25 329:25 330:1 331:21 338:6 340:8 346:8 346:15 347:2 347:9,13,22 348:5,13,18 348:25 349:11 350:12,13,20 354:4,15,24 355:18 356:6 356:9 357:21 357:24 362:4 363:5,12 365:10 366:7 366:15 367:22,24 372:13 377:15 389:7,11 390:7 391:12 392:21 400:13 404:7 407:19 408:2 408:9,14,18 408:25 409:18,24 410:7 old 342:10 398:4 Olive 393:23 395:21 once 320:2 324:22 336:19 355:4 360:20 362:2 366:2 375:18 379:20 386:4 386:12 397:17 402:25 404:2 ones 389:18,23 ongoing 364:6 404:3 online 400:15 open-cut 324:18 373:24 383:13 operate 346:24 347:7 operates 326:17 346:22 operating 333:5 342:19 operation 379:5 406:16 407:4 operational 349:12 350:11 407:3 operations 347:5 397:15 405:23 opportunities 347:19,20 opportunity 347:22 353:14 385:7 387:23 opposed 345:5 options 396:14 order 317:4 327:20 335:13 346:23 348:3 351:3 369:23 374:6,9 381:12,17 382:4 386:7 387:20 388:3 389:16 393:17 394:17 398:10 401:1 orders 355:5 original 333:7 394:11 402:9 402:20,23 originally 333:16 339:8 339:22 378:13,20 385:9 393:22 outlier 383:17 outside 320:23 329:21 331:6 343:9 351:6 353:12 357:7 359:12 371:23 390:13 399:7 overall 329:5 329:10 330:10 333:24 339:9 349:8 385:10 404:23 406:25 overcharge 336:8 overflow 320:6 320:8 322:12 322:12 334:5 336:25 337:3 337:3,12 339:7,19,21,24 340:24 341:22 361:6 374:23,24,25 378:1 390:2 400:23,25 overflowing 335:5 340:1 375:13,15 overflows 334:23 335:7 339:20 342:1 364:4,21 374:6,9 375:8 375:12,14 376:1,11 377:8 377:8 389:14 393:14,15,17 393:18,21 397:10 409:10 overlap 401:2 owner 381:21 395:25 396:3 P P.C 315:3 P.E 314:3 p.m 317:1 388:12,15 411:11 package 338:19 350:2 packages 338:20 349:25 383:10 page 320:17 323:1 325:22 325:24 328:3 331:20 356:4 358:11,12 372:23 377:4 377:5 404:9 pages 325:23 350:14,19 Palans 314:6 316:16 317:24 317:25 367:25 368:1 368:6 388:6 398:24 402:2 Pam 357:25 paragraph MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 358:12 parallel 394:12 park 396:24 397:16 part 327:5 328:13 329:6 330:9,11 332:22 338:24 343:11 353:1,2 356:5 356:6 362:15 363:3 365:16 373:23 375:24 379:3 383:9 390:8 391:8,14 393:9,13 396:5,14,18 404:25 406:16,19 407:5 partial 396:1 partially 395:21 participate 345:14 383:3 participation 350:4 particular 327:8 370:24 390:18 393:11 394:23 particularly 326:25 344:8 351:21 354:10 367:16 392:13 403:10 405:9 parties 412:9,10 Paul 316:8 317:12 318:10 peak 388:4 people 324:16 375:17,19 395:1,12,13 398:8,14 people's 335:7 340:3 percent 323:21 326:11,11 329:9 332:24 356:20 358:18 376:1 376:4 378:7 387:8,8 409:11 Peres 364:21 364:25 365:8 393:9,10 399:2 401:3 perfect 384:8 384:10,14 perform 356:24 356:25 357:6 370:14 371:24 372:1 387:11 performance 357:5 384:17 performed 348:23 380:23,24 period 319:18 324:1 331:23 343:1 361:20 378:6 384:6 385:12 392:9 permits 346:22 347:8 person 316:10 perspective 328:9 phone 318:8 phosphorus 344:11 physical 328:12 342:9 356:1 357:12 392:15 picture 368:8 pipe 322:14 328:15 329:1 place 345:10 367:18 382:4 391:17 393:12 placeholders 402:20 plan 321:8,11,11 321:12 333:22 333:25 335:19 337:19 344:23,25 345:8,9 368:17 369:11 375:10,23 377:2,17 378:14,21 381:6,7,14 382:5,6 387:24 389:4 394:11,11,14 397:21 planned 339:8 339:22 343:9 348:8 386:20 393:22 399:9 planning 323:18 324:24 329:24 375:2 375:7 386:4 386:24 390:5 399:11 plans 328:19,19 349:24 355:3 364:20 387:3 plant 320:9 322:1 328:10 331:11 332:8 333:23 334:2 341:1,7,9,19,19 341:20,23,24 342:4,6,9 351:22 352:8 359:4,6 363:21 364:9 364:10,12,15 364:23,24 365:20 366:4 366:6 403:19 planting 355:3 plantings 353:5 plants 328:11,12 329:13 330:19 330:25 331:1 331:16 332:7 333:7,23 340:19,21 341:15,18 342:2,8,12,24 343:12 344:12 344:22 345:1 346:23,23 351:1,8,13 359:10 365:14 402:17 403:15 405:2,3 plays 382:1 please 317:6 358:6 406:8 407:16,19 plus 323:20 point 325:20 332:23 345:5 345:19 366:3 381:9 391:12 400:17 404:6 pointed 323:25 poor 328:16 330:17 Poor's 385:2 portion 388:1 position 366:22 384:25 395:15 post-circuit 355:25 post-construc... 336:21 337:9 339:5 360:22 pot 338:8 potential 342:25 345:2 348:11 371:7 377:6 403:19 405:1 potentially 381:25 396:15 396:19,23 405:4 practices 322:4 349:23 pre-level 385:13 precursor 385:4 predesigned 323:17 preliminary 323:22 325:13 360:3 360:5 362:18 362:22,23 378:17 379:21 380:11,12,13 394:13 396:22 397:1 397:6 405:7 present 316:3 317:9,16 318:4 318:6 presently 370:14,16 pretty 359:24 361:13 367:9 382:18 386:18 386:20 387:3 396:25 prevent 340:1,2 previous 342:23 360:18 362:10 387:18 previously 407:1,11 price 323:23 327:22,24 366:17 prices 322:13,14 322:16,17 324:16,19 325:2,12 327:21 338:21 362:11 383:24 383:25 pricing 382:15 382:16,21,23 384:21 385:8 primarily 334:20 351:7 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 352:17 353:4 353:23 368:10 primary 359:2 368:16 376:22 prior 333:18 353:10 378:15 381:15 382:19 408:16 prioritization 331:15 343:8 374:21 375:6 377:2 prioritizations 377:5 prioritize 331:17 343:10 357:9 374:16,17 375:24 403:23 prioritized 329:21 375:20 376:19 priority 374:19 375:16 376:12 376:23 377:19 377:20,23 private 336:13 337:7 338:3,9 339:4 369:17 proactive 408:21 proactively 410:3 probably 323:20 325:4 341:11 349:5,9 362:18 363:3 367:6 370:23 371:16 373:24 388:2 391:3,6 391:11 398:15 403:13 problem 344:8 problems 364:13 379:11 procedural 318:14,20 proceeding 317:5 proceedings 317:1 412:7,7 process 322:7 322:9 328:17 332:9 333:13 333:14 341:25 343:14 361:4 372:25 375:3 380:18,19,20 385:13 387:1 391:15 392:4 392:25 398:12 processes 340:18 345:5 405:5 procurement 362:3 produce 385:20 products 405:10 professional 354:23 412:3 program 328:23 329:7 329:8 330:10 349:7,8 353:1 353:3 357:10 359:25 361:5 361:9,10 364:8 368:16 373:16 374:23 374:24 375:1 375:4,25 376:14 377:11 379:5 382:3 386:18 388:3 391:18,23 393:3 397:10 400:25 401:2 403:17,22 404:25 406:23 408:22,22 409:8,14 410:3 programmed 329:9 378:5 programming 378:16 project 321:23 324:9 326:23 327:2,4,6,8 328:6 330:20 331:9 338:11 338:25 339:2 339:3,12 342:15 348:8 353:19 355:2 355:7,13 359:11 360:6 361:5,9 362:12 363:17 363:23 366:18 367:2 367:3 369:15 369:17,17,18 369:20,21 371:6 372:9,21 373:1,12,13,14 373:18,19,21 373:22,24 374:1,8,10 376:8,20,21 377:19,23,25 379:10,13 380:1,8,14 381:16 382:1 383:6,7,8 384:21 386:13 386:20,22,22 386:25 388:3 389:20 390:4 392:23,23 393:2,8 399:13 400:15 401:12 403:21 404:2 projected 406:15,17 407:1,5,12 projects 320:3 320:5,6,7,7,8 320:9,11,11,13 320:14,23,25 321:8,14,20,21 321:22 322:5 322:7,11,18,19 322:22,24 324:5,6,8 325:1 326:3 327:15 328:6 328:15,20,24 328:25 330:3 330:12,14,19 331:12 334:22 335:21 336:18 337:8,8 338:3 338:21 339:1 339:10,15 340:13 341:3 341:12 342:5 342:20,23 343:9,10 347:24 348:3 348:4 351:11 351:17,21,22 351:25 352:3 352:17,20,24 353:21 354:19 355:8,20 357:3 358:20 359:1,2 360:1 360:16,19,24 360:25,25 363:6 364:7 366:19 367:9 367:12,15,16 368:11,21,25 369:4,5,7,12 369:13,16 370:14 371:8,9 371:23 372:4 373:3,7 374:17,18 375:7 376:4 376:10 377:18 377:21 378:2 378:8,9 381:1 381:18 382:21 382:24 383:4 383:18 386:14 387:2,11 388:24 389:3 389:10,15 390:9 398:25 401:8 402:3,6 402:25 405:5 proofread 412:6 properties 376:20 property 353:8 381:21 395:4 395:22,25 396:3 proposal 319:25 320:18 322:25 325:11 350:15 355:23 358:11 368:14 370:2 370:10 387:6 387:7 400:8,9 400:10 404:8 406:14 proposed 346:10,13 provide 320:18 323:13 328:6 337:17 338:1 346:11,17 347:11 350:4 352:13,15,23 353:18 357:8 357:9,19 363:13,14 367:20,23 385:3 400:7 409:23 provided 320:19 343:5 356:11 400:4 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES provides 333:14 356:23 providing 349:15 352:6 390:3 prudent 387:5 public 336:14 337:8 338:3 338:12 339:5 360:21 369:17 398:4 public-private 361:3 pull 327:5 369:14 386:17 pulled 320:21 396:7,22 pump 320:25 321:1 342:9 343:13 351:8 351:12 352:7 364:5,11,12,14 364:16,23 365:17 366:3 366:10 391:24 391:25,25 392:1 394:21 pumping 351:16 366:5 390:13 391:6,8 purpose 356:11 purposes 386:11 pushed 344:15 393:4 399:5 pushing 396:11 put 321:7,16 323:4 332:11 332:14,21 333:16,20 338:16 341:25 349:24,25 354:6 380:7 381:23 382:4 385:11 391:13 393:17 396:12 398:1 402:13 403:9 puts 376:10 putting 341:7 386:17 391:17 396:23 Q qualifications 354:14 qualified 383:5 quality 333:15 quality-based 354:10 quantity 356:15 question 325:21,24 328:3 331:20 334:10 337:24 340:4 342:17 343:22,24 356:9,10 360:15 363:9 368:9 372:21 372:22,23 374:13 384:9 384:10 385:5 408:2 409:9 410:20 questioned 334:15 questions 314:3 314:4,4,5,5,6 314:6,7,7,8,10 314:11 319:3,8 339:12 345:23 358:5 359:7 362:5 363:6 367:24 388:16,22 392:22 398:19 401:22 404:13 405:14 405:15 406:4 406:5,13 407:17 410:10 410:13 queue 348:3 quick 380:23 quite 383:14 quorum 318:11 quote 371:15 R rain 335:1,2,3,5 335:11,11,23 336:4,5 337:13 340:3 341:6 353:3 355:2 375:14 392:8,14 395:2 rained 375:19 ran 391:24 395:7 range 323:21 333:5 345:9 356:20 365:3 369:3 371:4 378:19 rapidly 407:11 rate 313:3 315:5 317:3,5 319:2 319:18,25 320:17 321:7 321:16 327:13 331:12 333:19 334:5 342:3 342:23,24 343:2 346:9 346:10,13,16 347:9,14,25 348:16,18 349:12 350:15 352:1 355:23 358:11 359:9 359:10 361:1 363:3 368:14 370:24 371:4 371:11,12 373:23 374:15 379:22 386:6 386:9,12,12,14 387:14,18,20 399:4,5,8,10 399:21,22 400:4,8,21,21 401:18 402:5 402:9 403:11 404:8,10 406:3,14 rated 385:1,1 ratepayers 387:9 rates 358:14 384:11,19 385:7,14,16,17 386:3,7 387:8 387:8 404:1 406:14 407:5 ratings 330:17 387:21 Ratzki 316:6 318:1,2 raw 408:4 reach 375:8 reaching 402:18 409:3 reading 326:2 real-time 365:19 realign 397:23 realize 404:18 really 323:2 373:14 374:21 375:11,13 389:16 395:9 397:18 404:3 reason 338:20 376:5 406:19 reasonable 349:16 387:7 391:23 reasonably 325:18 Rebecca 313:19 412:2,16 rebuttal 410:24 recall 380:22 392:21 402:20 receive 322:16 348:5 received 362:17 recessionary 384:6 recommenda ... 352:16 reconsider 387:6 reconvene 388:12,15 record 381:2 382:14 408:3 redefined 360:6 redevelopment 396:6 reduce 339:8 348:11 360:19 409:5 reduced 340:24 360:17 reducing 360:24 379:1 reduction 327:9 407:1,8 reductions 408:25 409:2 409:12,13 reengineered 360:16 reestimated 362:12 reevaluation 333:19 refer 334:21 336:12 368:7 403:6 referenced 372:22 382:19 referring 334:20 350:6 refine 379:20 refined 380:1,2 381:13 refining 321:13 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES reflect 362:15 362:16,21 reflects 382:14 regard 349:24 366:10 378:1 380:21 403:14 regarding 408:2 409:9 regardless 336:6 395:17 regimented 386:18 region 322:15 regions 344:6 Registered 412:2 regular 375:18 regularly 347:18 378:10 regulated 332:11 regulation 349:1 regulatory 320:13,22 322:18,19 328:8,9 331:3 331:5 332:2 332:21 348:14 349:4 368:12 403:1 rehab 326:25 338:18 rehabilitate 330:24 338:15,15 392:2 rehabilitating 383:9 rehabilitation 321:22 324:9 327:1 330:25 351:12 357:10 383:8 related 320:4 320:12,15 321:4 326:4 331:4,24 332:3,4 334:16 341:12 349:16 372:3 412:8 relates 393:1 relative 412:9 relatively 409:6 relief 339:1,2 361:5,9 369:18 374:1 383:13 relocations 326:12 rely 391:23 remaining 337:13 remember 319:5 332:17 358:25 408:14 removal 338:9 339:5 remove 338:10 339:7 360:21 364:9 375:8 376:1 392:12 392:14 393:14 393:16 renewable 355:11 renewal 320:5 361:21 repair 329:2 330:8,12,14,18 352:21 353:19 repairs 331:1 333:2,4 379:7 383:9 replace 338:25 342:16 391:25 replaced 393:5 404:19 replacement 339:1,9 342:7 342:14 359:3 359:5 368:16 391:3,13 replacements 342:5 replacing 358:25 394:1 reported 313:17 412:6 Reporter 412:1 412:3,3,3 representing 368:17 request 320:20 325:21 343:6 343:18 363:3 require 355:14 357:4 required 320:13 320:22 356:19 368:11 370:13 375:8 403:3 requirement 331:5 349:5 356:13 366:17 366:19,24 378:7 requirements 326:4 328:8 332:2,15,21 346:21 348:15 348:21,21 366:16,21 367:9,19 368:12 372:2 403:1 requires 334:24 353:5 reserve 391:13 residential 397:25 resistance 395:8 resource 353:7 353:12,22 354:1 356:23 resources 350:5 351:6 352:14 353:18 356:25 357:7 382:2 385:22 385:23 respect 339:16 374:18 respond 334:25 response 325:21 332:16 334:12 result 347:24 resulting 383:2 return 359:24 revise 378:23 revised 359:22 400:11 Rich 318:23 384:3,4 388:8 388:21 RICHARD 314:3 right 318:12,24 322:11 325:24 343:17 344:5 346:7 348:24 349:11 351:3 355:18 365:25 372:14 373:23 390:5 395:6 396:21,25,25 397:5,6,19 398:16 405:18 407:14 408:7 409:7,24 411:5,8 rise 330:19 risks 376:3 377:6 River 341:18 364:21,24 365:8 393:9 393:10 399:1 401:3 riverfront 321:1 rivers 344:11 road 380:17 role 318:18 roll 317:7 rolls 330:22 Room 412:5 rough 359:13 roughly 372:2 408:15 round 323:2,5 rounded 323:2 route 395:7 routine 391:4 RPR 313:19 412:16 Rule 332:13,14 rules 349:12 350:11 run 391:23 runs 363:20,25 Russell 316:9 317:18 S sandblast 392:16 sanitary 320:8 334:21 335:1 335:2,10 337:17 363:20 369:12 374:1 375:3,24 376:10,14 377:17 378:1 379:3,18 390:23 393:10,13 397:13 400:22,24 sanity 336:1 sat 333:19 381:24 saw 324:21,22 333:18 334:6 393:2 saying 370:17 371:15 372:14 403:23 says 330:23 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 357:14 370:11 schedule 361:11 374:7 386:10 389:2,11,22 390:1 401:1 scheduled 361:2 363:15 393:3 399:3,3 410:19,21 Schoedel 314:5 314:7 316:11 317:6,8,11,14 317:17,20,22 317:24 318:1,3 318:3,7,9,13 359:18,20 379:1 401:23 402:1 scope 329:3 331:7 339:8 360:6,24 373:19 378:15 378:20,23 379:20,25 380:2,20,25 382:11 scopes 321:13 379:1 380:10 380:11 381:13 381:13 scoping 381:2 382:9 scores 377:13 second 325:20 343:18 359:5 411:3,4 secondary 341:22 342:7 359:3 seconded 411:6 secondly 378:3 section 350:11 389:8,9 sections 383:19 383:20 see 319:17 322:15,15,17 324:7,19 325:3 327:9 327:24 331:3 339:1 349:5,11 354:15 355:13 355:19,21,23 357:11 360:3 361:10 362:2 362:19,24 371:9 380:10 380:11 383:22 383:25 384:1 398:13 400:14 400:16 401:10 402:16 407:9 409:20 410:7 seed 344:11 seeing 324:20 324:25 326:7 327:12 338:20 341:15 360:14 382:14 382:15 seeking 394:6 395:4 seen 322:1,13 324:4,16 327:23 339:4 344:5 361:24 370:21 379:8 382:17,20,23 384:5 402:8 407:8 seeping 336:16 sees 321:20 selection 354:10,13 selections 354:9 send 393:15 sense 339:11 340:14 397:14 408:10 separate 322:12 336:7 352:10 374:24,25 393:11,14 sequence 377:21 378:5 397:14 sequencing 376:9 378:3 sequential 389:16 service 347:11 350:25 355:14 358:13 services 313:20 346:12,18 349:16 350:19 350:21 351:4 351:23 352:2 352:12,15,23 353:9 354:6 354:11,13,23 355:3,15 361:12,14 set 329:14 330:11 380:9 402:13 SETTING 313:3 seven 328:10 329:19 sewage 331:25 332:1,8,13,15 332:23 333:10,11,25 356:17 375:17 392:8 397:12 sewer 313:1 315:12,14 317:4 320:6,8 322:12,12 327:5 330:7 330:16 334:4 335:10,25 337:7,17 338:13 341:21 346:11 351:1,11 352:3,4 353:4 353:16 356:18 356:21,21 357:3 364:4 366:6 374:23 374:24,25 375:25 376:10 378:1 379:3,25 393:11,13,14,18 393:25 394:1 394:2 396:18 397:9,10,10 397:23 400:22,24 401:2 406:24 412:5 sewer-type 321:21 sewer/waste... 341:24 sewers 330:17 330:23,24 336:15 340:25 342:10 357:4 365:2 379:13 383:8,13 390:23 393:24 403:4 403:16 409:16 410:3 shafts 366:12 shallow 394:12 394:16 share 344:17 375:22 sharing 345:3 shed 320:5 short 383:19 shorter 368:4 Shorthand 412:3 show 360:10 showing 379:10 Shrewsbury 364:1 side 327:1 347:21 350:2 353:23 364:1 369:12 376:15 379:18 381:19 386:21 395:23 403:13 sign 371:18 significant 324:10 358:13 400:22 significantly 324:6 358:16 similar 322:22 323:11 349:3 351:25 352:9 383:10 397:2 409:9 similarly 344:24 348:2 395:1 simple 397:22 simply 326:18 380:13 400:20 sit 323:8 371:25 384:22 403:8 site 324:18 351:14 381:22 397:2 sites 395:18 siting 323:22 sitting 342:22 six 325:1 329:19 375:5 six-year 399:12 size 329:3 337:6 355:4 360:25 367:2 367:14 373:1 373:18 380:25 396:20 sizing 372:17 372:20,20 380:2,20 381:2 382:9,11 skip 362:3 slid 399:6,15,16 sliding 400:19 slips 389:20 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES slowly 344:19 sludge 332:2,8 332:9,13,15 332:23 333:11 333:25 slush 331:25 small 338:18 351:22,25 352:20 355:2 smaller 357:16 359:1 367:9 367:16 391:25 smyers@stlm ... 315:14 snapshot 384:22 social 392:23 soil 352:15,16 solids 333:22 344:24 solution 333:25 360:7 381:23 soon 398:13 sooner 334:3 sorry 325:23 326:1 365:25 371:2,11 377:3 389:6 sort 392:19 sounds 386:16 source 336:18 344:16,17 345:4 sources 336:11 338:10,14 344:10 south 363:20 363:21 364:8 speak 358:20 381:20 speaking 321:21 321:25 324:21 389:4 specific 321:22 321:24 322:5 338:11 351:8 352:5 355:9 356:3 358:20 366:17 369:21 376:5 382:10 specifically 324:16 338:5 350:18 386:14 393:1 specifics 334:13 367:7 372:25 speculate 371:5 spend 387:18 spent 335:13 355:24 381:5 404:19 spike 400:16 401:4,11 split 369:13 spoke 323:25 348:20 spreadsheet 320:22 Square 315:7 SSI 332:13 338:4 SSO 321:11 328:19 329:7 334:21 335:19 369:15,21 375:10 377:2 381:6 382:5 386:18 389:4 394:11 400:24 St 313:1,22 315:4,8,12,13 315:14 317:4 322:15 324:14 394:19 412:4 412:5 stabilization 376:18 staff 351:10 352:5,6,14,20 353:17,21 355:21 356:22 357:2 357:6 stakeholders 349:22,23 373:6 Standard 385:2 standards 321:23 332:19 333:1 standpoint 331:3 368:9 stands 396:24 397:18 start 319:16 351:4 360:13 374:25 386:17 391:9 399:7,9 408:16 started 324:20 324:25 375:2 386:4 395:18 395:25 396:2 409:2 starting 318:22 362:13 364:22 402:3 404:10 starts 358:12 state 328:5 331:22 338:5 345:14 412:3 stated 319:18 402:2 statement 382:12 States 344:4 station 342:9 351:8 364:5 364:23 365:17 366:11 390:13 391:6 391:8 stations 320:25 321:1 343:13 351:13 352:7 364:11,14,16 392:1,1 stay 329:22 347:17 stayed 329:20 363:1 steam 405:4 Stein 314:4 316:7 318:5,6 358:6,7,9 step 395:10 steps 349:20 408:18 Steve 316:12 Steven 317:22 stipulated 328:8 stop 320:14 storage 341:3,4 365:7,9,13 366:11 390:3 392:7 393:19 394:21 396:1 397:3,13 store 341:6 394:4 storing 341:6 storm 337:21,22 384:8,11,14 stormwater 336:7,12 374:15 376:15 380:20,21 381:3,19 382:11 story 334:14 street 313:21 315:3,12 395:20 412:5 strictly 320:15 397:13 stringent 332:14 strip 395:22 structure 391:8 structures 391:1 stuck 387:3 studied 382:10 studies 352:8 study 323:6,13 333:20 344:21 Stump 318:16 sub 338:7 subdivisions 336:3 subject 379:15 subjects 366:15 submerged 390:17 subsequent 399:22 subsurface 394:22 sudden 383:17 suffice 385:3 sufficient 385:2 Suite 315:8 sum 355:9 summary 377:11 388:22 supply 408:6 support 361:20 surcharge 358:14 sure 322:6 323:12 325:15 325:24 329:25 335:22 337:25 339:14 341:8,12 343:23 345:16 351:2 361:12 368:3 385:14 388:23 389:12 391:2 397:3 surely 344:19 survey 353:24 353:25 354:1 surveys 355:15 Susan 315:11 334:7,12 Switching 366:15 sworn 318:25 406:1 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES system 327:4 328:11 330:15 331:15,25 334:21,23,25 335:2,3,10,12 335:15,15 336:5,8,8,11 336:20 337:2 337:13,15,17 337:18,20,23 338:13 339:20 346:12 347:7 356:18,21,21 357:8 366:6 375:4 379:7,7 381:7,8,10,11 393:16,18 403:3,5 404:4 406:24 systems 320:16 328:22 329:13 336:12 340:5,6 357:15 T table 388:24 389:1,2 404:8 tail 399:11 take 320:19 332:9 337:12 339:13 341:9 341:12 357:16 360:2 362:14 366:11 369:23 370:5 371:4,5 371:6 372:5 373:11,14,17 374:12 378:19 378:21 388:11 391:20 393:12 396:10 403:3 taken 342:22 366:13 373:10 385:25 388:13 405:12 412:7,9 takes 359:25 386:19 399:24 talk 368:21 370:1 talked 331:13 333:19 334:14 351:21 362:9 362:12 373:5 375:4 378:25 391:16 talking 340:16 369:8 371:10 372:19 384:9 391:10 392:15 398:25 tank 393:19 394:20,21 396:1,20 397:3 398:2,3 398:9 tanks 366:11 task 355:5,9 task-order 355:6 tear 320:16 technical 313:2 377:9 technologies 357:20 technology 333:10 360:17 telephone 316:6,10,15 television 355:25 tell 319:22 345:9 346:15 368:24 372:20 377:18 387:13 389:3 telling 337:14 tells 331:16 temporary 390:3 ten 325:1 374:3 374:6 389:23 tend 380:17 term 355:1 376:16 terms 369:7,9 370:1 372:25 392:3 test 358:18 testified 347:13 382:13 384:19 384:24 408:2 testimony 313:2 319:17 328:3 331:20 334:8 346:6,13 348:13 368:8 368:9 372:22 380:22 382:20 387:22 398:24 407:25 410:25 thank 318:9,12 318:19,24 319:11 321:5 331:19 334:11 334:15 339:11 343:18 345:20,21 358:1,2,3,7 359:17 361:12 362:4 372:13 388:5,5,6 398:17,18 401:17,20,21 404:11 405:19 405:20 406:2 407:13,14 410:9,15 theoretically 363:4 thing 343:16 379:8 380:7 385:25 392:10,15,16 392:19 things 326:21 326:22 329:18,23 336:17 340:12 342:13 351:16 352:9 355:4 360:22 373:10 379:1 380:17 383:25 384:14 386:1 391:10 392:6 403:12 404:25 405:10,11,12 407:6 think 320:19 321:2 322:25 323:20 332:17 334:7 340:17 342:3 343:5,19 344:14 345:1 349:18 350:8 355:24 356:6 356:10,19 357:24 358:23 359:24 360:7 363:10,10,18 364:17 369:11 372:16 381:23 382:13 385:1 386:6 387:5 387:12 400:3 400:4,11 402:12,24 403:2,8,10,17 404:3 410:7 thinking 340:17 379:16 third 325:20 343:6 thought 393:2 397:21 402:13 403:9 thousand 408:13,15 three 338:18 342:22 360:4 362:1 364:6 369:16 373:14 374:22 383:16 393:24 399:16 tight 383:21 till 333:4 343:2 381:24 time 319:3 326:18,22 332:16 333:4 339:13 341:9 342:14,16 343:4 353:20 361:4,20 369:6 373:11 374:5 375:14 375:19 378:17 385:23 392:9 395:4 397:16 402:11,13,18,19 402:21 404:19 406:4 410:1,11 411:1 412:7 timeframe 361:6 today 318:17,18 318:22 323:8 371:25 382:20 384:16,22 today's 371:16 Toenjes 314:7 316:10 317:10 317:10 318:7,8 398:20,22 400:13 401:21 404:7,11 410:18 token 334:16 Tom 316:6 318:1 top 334:4 336:16 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 358:22 399:15 408:7 total 319:25 320:21 363:7 368:24 369:7 touched 349:18 Tough 363:9 tour 390:11 transcript 412:6 412:7 transcription 412:6 translated 412:6 transported 340:25 treated 341:8 treatment 320:9 321:25 328:10,10 329:13 330:19 330:24 331:1 331:11 332:7,7 332:9 333:22 334:2 340:18 341:18,20,23 341:24 342:7 343:12 344:12 346:22 351:1 351:7,13,22 352:8 359:4,6 359:10 363:21 364:9,10,15 364:23,24 365:20 366:3 366:4 402:17 403:15,19 trickling 342:6 tried 373:16 385:16 387:17 true 412:7 trunk 335:25 366:6 379:12 394:2 try 327:25 329:15,15 336:6,11 347:18 348:2 349:25 350:2 380:15 386:11 387:21 391:19 398:12 trying 340:10,11 367:15 370:19 393:25 401:15 TSS 340:11,17 358:14 Tuggle 313:19 412:2,16 tune 347:18 tunnel 321:25 324:5 334:6 363:6,16,19 363:20,23,25 364:2,6,8,14 364:19,20 365:1,8,9 366:4,5 373:21 380:16 383:20 390:16 391:3 392:13 393:11 394:12 397:9 399:1,2,9,14 399:15,16,19 399:20,21 400:12 401:3 401:6,15 404:9 tunnel-type 341:4 tunnels 334:5 365:5,7,7,21 366:2,7,9 390:8,10,20 392:3,15 397:8 399:16 turn 390:20 turned 379:11 398:7 turning 328:2 TV 357:12 two 321:13 324:5,12 332:6 336:9 342:22 347:1 347:4 355:11 358:22 359:1 359:22 360:4 360:13,14 362:12 365:4 371:8 373:17 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349:5 351:25 353:8,20 364:1,8,24,25 369:13 378:14 379:17 386:10 387:13 388:3 388:21 392:9 392:24 393:16 394:15 394:19 397:2 407:11 up-to-date 380:4 update 322:16 378:9,10 updated 327:7 327:10 333:21 updating 321:14 upgrade 332:25 upgrades 341:17 upgrading 345:5 upkeep 329:11 upped 402:15 use 321:23 322:3 327:19 346:16 357:12 362:2 377:1 380:21 383:24 405:4 405:9 useful 390:9 402:18 uses 405:1 utilities 384:13 utility 326:12 utilize 319:24 350:25 351:22 357:7 357:18 361:18 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 361:19,24 394:2 utilized 322:21 353:25 357:1 380:25 utilizes 351:5 V value 332:24 variability 410:5 vent 366:12 vented 366:7 verified 401:19 versus 351:18 376:20 409:6 view 409:4 viewing 384:17 visit 347:18 381:22 volume 313:9 339:15 340:12 377:8 volumes 377:12 W wait 343:2 361:10 wall 321:1 want 325:20 337:25 339:14 343:22 346:8 368:1 372:15 372:16 373:13 373:14,15,15 380:19 384:10 386:7 388:22 389:12 395:2 395:9,14,15 396:8 403:24 wanted 319:16 379:16 382:5 382:5,6 385:12 386:8 390:7 wasn't 318:16 327:7 385:19 waste-E 405:2 405:4 wastewater 317:5 331:11 331:25 341:23 342:1 344:13 351:7,22 359:4,6 364:10,15,22 368:10 374:18 375:3 376:23 378:9 380:21 381:1 382:9 water 336:16 watershed 335:24 336:1 338:7 377:14 377:17 393:8 waterways 348:22 way 323:4 326:16 335:24 341:14 345:18 357:16 361:1 364:11 370:20 372:6 387:7 ways 336:9,10 345:2 we'll 325:18 326:10 338:18 352:10 355:5 365:15 367:20 369:14 379:23 380:11 383:22,23 388:12 393:20 400:16 we're 320:25 322:11 323:17 323:18 324:11 325:17 327:12 327:24 328:11 335:6 336:10 337:1,1,2 338:21 343:7 343:14,16 344:16 345:13 351:13 355:2 361:1,3 362:21 366:5 373:25 374:8 383:8 385:1,1 388:14 389:4 390:5 396:7,22 397:6,15,22 398:3 400:20 403:12,22 404:24 405:1 409:3 we've 319:5 321:13,24 322:13 324:10 324:16 326:13 327:11,23 329:4,20,20 331:10,11,14 335:9 338:12 339:4,6,6,7 340:24 342:21 343:1 343:4,7 344:5 344:13,14,20 344:25 345:7 345:7 360:5,5 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345:12 349:21 351:19 352:8 352:17,21 353:15,19,19 353:22 359:10,12 360:11 369:20 373:9 374:11 375:6,7 379:8 385:11,20,24 386:8,11,17 394:14,17 396:13 397:21 400:23 worked 396:25 398:11 working 322:11 366:25 375:23 394:7 394:8 398:10 works 398:4 world 324:12 384:5 worth 332:18 wouldn't 323:7 333:3 355:7 MEETING Volume II 4/9/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 365:14 388:10 write 371:21 written 328:2 X X 314:1 Y yard 376:17 yeah 340:10,15 343:25 348:10 354:22 359:25 361:17 372:15 389:5 392:16 400:1 400:21 year 321:16 322:3 325:17 354:18 355:10 356:20 358:18,23,24 359:23 361:13 362:3 369:4 371:2,10 379:19 402:14 407:3,3,3 409:6 410:4 years 320:3 321:9,13 322:14 326:24 327:11 329:19 331:14 331:18 335:14 342:10,12,22 355:12 359:22 360:1 360:3,4,13,14 360:18 362:1 362:12 363:1 370:6,21,22 373:4,14,18 375:6 376:2 378:18 381:5 384:7 386:19 387:1,9 390:19 391:4 391:9 399:17 400:5,7,10,25 401:8,9 402:15 403:11 403:24 404:8 yellow 389:23 Yep 372:18 yesterday 359:7,15 382:14 384:20 392:21 Z zero 409:19 Ziegler 318:10 0 1 1 356:20 1.2 321:3 370:22 1.58 321:3 1.6 319:19 320:1 320:21 1:00 317:1,2 10 329:9 359:9 368:9 376:1 384:7 400:25 10-foot 364:17 10-year 335:11 109 412:5 11TH 313:21 12-minute 388:11 120 371:3,10,11 13 324:22 408:2 14 321:2 15 327:11 331:20 332:17,18 376:4 402:15 150 408:8 16 372:22,23 167 363:24 2 2 328:3 343:24 387:8 20 327:11 359:13 400:23 403:20 20-foot 363:24 200 338:11 200,000 354:17,25 2000s 341:17 2004 335:14 2006 386:4 2010 335:14 2012 321:10 324:22 329:6 332:12 402:10 2015 406:15 2017 358:18 2018 370:10 408:4 409:6 2019 313:11 317:5 412:4 2021 358:19 2023 374:9 376:5,6 378:7 389:25 390:6 2025 333:4 2028 333:5 21 354:18 358:24 368:19 211 315:8 23-year 378:6 385:12 2350 315:12 412:5 24 368:19 25 329:11 330:11 371:1 391:11 402:14 250 329:10 259-2050 315:9 26 355:24 3 3 326:10,11 3-4F 350:11 3:00 388:12,15 3:30 411:11 30 323:21 371:2 30-foot 364:3 365:1 300 370:23 372:9 314 313:23 315:4,9,13 319 314:3 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