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Exhibit MSD 86 - Transcript of Public Hearing - June 4, 2019 PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 1 1 2 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT 3 2350 MARKET STREET 4 ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63103 5 6 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 7 METROPOLITAN SEWER DISTRICT 8 RATE COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARINGS 9 MAY - JULY 2019 10 11 12 RICHMOND HEIGHTS CENTER 13 JUNE 4, 2019 14 (COMMENCING AT 6:00 P.M.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 REPORTED BY: 22 PATSY A. MAYBERRY, C. R. 23 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 24 25 PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 2 1 I N D E X 2 PROCEEDING PAGE 3 INTRODUCTION 4 4 MSD PRESENTATION: 5 INTRODUCTION 8 6 WASTEWATER PROPOSAL 10 7 PUBLIC COMMENTS SESSION 25 8 CONCLUSION 47 9 ADJOURNMENT 48 10 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 49 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E 2 MSD COMMISSION MEMBERS: 3 MARK SCHOEDEL, COMMISSION CHAIRMAN 4 FOR: LUTHERAN SENIOR SERVICES 5 JOHN STEIN 6 FOR: MISSOURI INDUSTRIAL ENERGY CONSUMER 7 GERALD BECKMANN 8 FOR: ST. LOUIS COUNCIL OF CONSTRUCTION CONSUMER 9 BRANDY BOUNDRY 10 FOR: MOUND CITY BAR ASSOCIATION 11 MICKEY CROYLE 12 FOR: LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS 13 TOM RATZI 14 FOR ENGINEERS' CLUB OF ST. LOUIS 15 DON BRESNAN 16 FOR: GREATER ST. LOUIS LABOR COUNCIL 17 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT: 18 BRIAN HOELSCHER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND CEO 19 MARION GEE, FINANCE DIRECTOR 20 PATTY OLSEN, ASSISTANT 21 22 23 24 25 PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G 2 (JUNE 4, 2014) 3 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Good 4 evening. My name is Mark Schoedel. I'm a member of 5 the Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District Rate 6 Commission. 7 I will presiding over the public hearing 8 this evening. With me tonight are the following MSD 9 Rate Commission Members: Gerald Beckmann, Brandy 10 Boundry, Don Bresnan, Mickey Croyle, Tom Ratzi, and 11 John Stein. 12 The Charter Plan of the District was 13 amended at a general election on November 7, 2000, and 14 established the Rate Commission to review and make 15 recommendations to the District regarding changes in 16 wastewater rates, stormwater rates, and tax rates for 17 the public district. 18 The Charter Plan requires that MSD Board 19 of Trustees to select organizations to assure a fair 20 representation of all users of the District services 21 on the Rate Commission. 22 The Rate Commission representative 23 organizations are to represent commercial, industrial 24 users, residential users, and other organizations 25 interested in the operation of the District, including PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 5 1 organizations focusing on environmental issues, labor 2 issues, socioeconomic issues, community neighborhood 3 organizations, and other non-profit organizations. 4 The MSD Rate Commission currently 5 consists of new team members from organizations and 6 institutions throughout St. Louis City and County. 7 The Rate Commissioner received a rate 8 change notice from the District on March 4, 2019. 9 Under the District's Charter Plan, the Rate Commission 10 must on or before July 2, 2019 issue its report on the 11 proposed rate change notice to the Board of Trustees 12 of the District unless the Board of Trustees upon 13 application to the Rate Commission extends the period 14 of time for the issuance of the Rate Commission report 15 for an additional 45-day period. 16 At its meeting on March 14, 2019, the 17 Board of Trustees approved a Rate Commission request 18 for an extension. The Rate Commission's report on the 19 rate change proposal must now be issued on or before 20 August 16, 2016 (sic). 21 MSD Rate Commission has engaged legal 22 counsel for any rate consultant independent of those 23 used by the MSD staff. 24 Under Procedural Rules adopted by the 25 Rate Commission, as amended, any person affected by PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 6 1 the rate change proposal had an opportunity to submit 2 an application to intervene in these proceedings. 3 An application to intervene has been 4 filed by the Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers. 5 This application has been granted. 6 Since March 4, 2019, the MSD Rate 7 Commission has received testimony from MSD staff, the 8 rate consultants, and the interveners. The parties 9 have also engaged in discovery requests. 10 A prehearing conference for the purpose 11 of identifying an issue raised by the rate setting 12 documents and the paired testimony previously 13 submitted will be conducted on the record. All 14 persons submitting testimony may participate in the 15 prehearing conference, and each participant in the 16 prehearing conference shall submit a prehearing 17 conference report describing the issues raised by the 18 rate setting documents and the prepared testimony 19 together with a brief description of such 20 participant's position, if any, on each issue and the 21 rationale therefore. 22 Rate bearers who do not wish to intervene 23 are permitted to participate on these on-the-record 24 public hearings conducted in six sessions beginning on 25 May 14, 2019. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 7 1 The Rate Commission published a Public 2 Notice regarding these proceedings in the St. Louis 3 Post Dispatch and in the St. Louis American. These 4 notices contained the time, dates, and locations of 5 each of the conferences and hearings. 6 The public section tonight is for the 7 purpose of permitting the District to present its 8 wastewater rate change proposal and to permit any rate 9 payer an opportunity to comment. 10 We will begin with the presentation by 11 the District followed by a public comment period. The 12 District will be presenting a lot of information. So 13 we ask that you hold your questions till the comment 14 period, as perhaps many of your initial questions will 15 be answered by the end of their presentation. 16 Those wishing to speak, should sign in on 17 the sheet provided, and will be called upon in order 18 of the names listed thereon. Each rate payer should 19 identify themselves and any organizations represented 20 by such rate payer. 21 Several housekeeping rules before we 22 begin. If you wish to present testimony or expect you 23 may have questions or comments, please sign in on the 24 clipboard. 25 Speakers will be recognized in the order PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 8 1 in which they sign up. Each rate payer may have a 2 maximum of ten minutes to speak regarding the proposed 3 rate change. As the presiding officer, I can limit or 4 expand the time should I deem it necessary. 5 If you have not done so, please silence 6 your cell phones. 7 Exits from this room are located as shown 8 by the Exit signs. Rest rooms are located down the 9 hallway to your right. And if we do have a little bit 10 of a storm, there is some safe area down the hallway 11 by the rest rooms. Don't anticipate that, but just in 12 case. 13 Are there any questions regarding the 14 procedures this evening? 15 (NONE) 16 If not, is the District ready to proceed? 17 MR. HOELSHER: Yes, sir. 18 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Please step 19 forward. 20 MR. HOELSHER: Thank you. 21 My name is Brian Hoelsher. I'm the 22 executive director and CEO of MSD. I'm going to give 23 an overview of MSD's rate proposal. I'll spend a 24 little time on some history and organizational 25 information on what MSD is, and then we'll go into PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 9 1 full detail as to what we're proposing. 2 Overview of MSD: We are a government 3 utility. We're a municipal corporation. We were 4 created under provision of the State Constitution of 5 the State of Missouri. We operate under a 6 voter-approved charter. That is the organic law of 7 MSD and what governs how we can operate. 8 We have a six-member Board of Trustees. 9 Three of those are appointed by the County Executive 10 of St. Louis County, and three of them are by the 11 Mayor of the City of St. Louis. 12 It's important to remember we are two 13 utilities, a stormwater utility and a wastewater 14 utility. We collect separate revenues for those two 15 different functions, and those revenues cannot be 16 mixed back and forth. We spend only stormwater 17 revenues on stormwater issues, wastewater on 18 wastewater. 19 I'll mention this again later. We have a 20 lot of staff here. Raise your hands, folks. We have 21 engineering, finance, operations. So after we get 22 through this proposal, if you have questions about 23 stormwater, if you have questions about billing, we 24 have people and we'll stay as long as people want us 25 to after the presentation to answer any questions you PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 10 1 may have that are outside the information we're going 2 to present here. 3 MSD serves 1.3 million customers, 88 4 different municipalities are located in our 5 boundaries. We have about 10,000 miles of sewer. MSD 6 is the fourth largest utility in the country with 7 regard to miles of sewer. 8 So wastewater rates, and that's what 9 we're here to discuss, what we are proposing on the 10 wastewater rates for fiscal year 2021 through 2024. 11 So these billings would start in the summer of 2020. 12 The biggest part of the program that we 13 are proposing is a $1.58 billion capital program over 14 those four years, starting over those four years, and 15 consists of 300 different projects that are meant to 16 either meet our Consent Decree with the Department of 17 Justice and the EPA, or else they are regulatory 18 requirements that are required by permit in order to 19 meet the Clean Water Act. 20 What we are proposing to do that is also 21 to request the voters to decide whether or not to give 22 us the additional $500 million of bonding authority to 23 help control the cost of that program through the 24 rates. 25 What you will see coming out of this PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 11 1 program, we're going to eliminate 50 of the overflows 2 that are located in the wastewater system. When heavy 3 rains come, there are pipes in the system that are 4 meant to overflow and discharge that rainwater and 5 sewage to the local creeks and streams. 6 One of the major items in the Consent 7 Decree is to eliminate those. They're illegal. 8 We'll build 60 new miles of wastewater 9 sewer, inspect 64,000 of our manholes. Oftentimes, 10 those are places where stormwater, groundwater can get 11 into the wastewater system, use up capacity, and they 12 cause quite a few of the overflows that we have. 13 We will be replacing the incinerators at 14 the Bissel and Lemay treatment plants. They're 15 getting rather old. We are running into a regulatory 16 requirement that those need to be replaced. They are 17 not a Consent Decree requirement, but they are a 18 requirement under the Clean Water Act. 19 And then finally one of the -- another 20 big one is the tunnel from Fenton to the Lower Meramec 21 treatment plant that will allow us to take the Fenton 22 treatment plant off line, but it will also allow us to 23 resolve the sewer overflow issues we have in the sewer 24 system that also goes to the Fenton treatment plant. 25 If you take a look at the different PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 12 1 things, that capital program represents 50 to 55 2 percent of the total dollars that MSD is requesting in 3 this rate proposal. 4 The rest of it: operations and 5 maintenance is 25 to 30 percent to run the District 6 and to maintain the existing facilities, and another 7 20 percent is debt service from both past borrowing as 8 well as the borrowing that is being proposed during 9 this four-year period. 10 Some of the key issues we have to 11 consider some are our Charter requirements. There are 12 five criteria that need to be reviewed both by this 13 Rate Commission as well they're done and considered by 14 our Board of Trustees before we move forward with any 15 proposal. 16 Those requirements are, and I'll list 17 these right out of the Charter: 18 1. Any rate proposal has to be 19 consistent with Constitutional, statutory or common 20 laws amended from time to time. 21 2. Must enhance the District's ability 22 to provide adequate sewer and drainage systems and 23 facilities or related services; 24 3. Must be consistent with and not in 25 violation of any covenant or provisions relating to PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 13 1 any outstanding bonds or indebtedness of the District; 2 4. Cannot impair the ability of the 3 District to comply with federal or state laws or 4 regulations, as those are amended from time to time. 5 I described a few of those earlier, and the item that 6 our Rating Commission will be spending the most time 7 on; 8 5. It must impose a fair and reasonable 9 burden on all classes of rate payers. 10 Five very important factors of both the 11 Rate Commission and once they're done our Board of 12 Trustees will need to consider. 13 Next will be -- what we are going to show 14 you are the rates having to do under what we call 15 bonding scenario. We're going to ask eventually the 16 public, would you like to allow us addition bonding 17 capacity. What we're going to show you today are the 18 rates and what would happen to rates or the average 19 monthly cost if we're given that bonding authority. 20 There's also another scenario that we've 21 given to the Rate Commission if the public votes not 22 for additional bonding, there's another set of rates 23 that will have to go into place. Without bonding, 24 rates increase significantly more. 25 So it's not a question of whether we do PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 14 1 the program or not. The question is how do we pay for 2 it and what's the right price to pay for it. 3 So we'll be going through that a little 4 bit too. 5 Affordability is a big issue, and 6 something we're tracking as we move forward in the 7 program. It's something we consider when we signed 8 the Consent Decree. It's something we're always 9 cognizant of. Probably the best example is we did get 10 a five-year extension on our Consent Decree from the 11 EPA, a lot of it having to do with the affordability 12 issues to try to keep us right around the median of 13 what everybody throughout the country is paying for 14 these types of issues. 15 It needs to be equitable, and that goes 16 back to the fair and reasonable for everybody who's 17 preparing the rates. And then are there are 18 underlying rate assumptions that are in the rate 19 proposal. How much our customer growth is going to 20 be? What is the water usage or the number of units we 21 bill for? What's inflation going to look like over a 22 four-year period? Making sure we're in compliance 23 with our Consent Decree that we signed with the 24 Department of Justice and the EPA. And also our 25 customer assistance program. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 15 1 Our current program has a customer 2 assistance program whereas if somebody qualifies for 3 low-income, what we do is we charge them half the 4 rate. We plan on continuing applying that. We 5 propose to maintain that program for any future 6 increases as well. 7 So this is a chart. It's going to be 8 somewhat similar. You guys have a one-page handout to 9 the chart. It's on the back. So these numbers will be 10 identical, and we're going to go get some more. Is 11 there anybody that didn't pick one up off the table? 12 Okay. I think we're going out and getting some, and 13 we're going to bring those back in. 14 You can look either at the table I'm 15 doing or the chart. 16 So first of all, a quick discussion about 17 how does MSD know how much to bill all its customers? 18 We do not have a meter on your sanitary laval. That 19 is not the way we bill for service. That's not the 20 way anybody in the country bills for service. 21 What we do is we bill based on the amount 22 of your potable water usage, your drinking water. 23 That is what we do the billing on. And that will look 24 like two different things. 25 If you have a meter, and that would be PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 16 1 most people within St. Louis County as well as all 2 commercial and industrial customers, whether they're 3 in the city or St. Louis County, we take the three 4 winter quarters every year, either November through 5 January or December through February. We monitor your 6 potable water usage based on the records we get from 7 your water provider. We're assuming wintertime is a 8 good measure of what goes down the sewer. You're not 9 washing cars, you're not filling swimming pools, 10 you're not watering the grass, you're not watering the 11 garden. 12 It's a good measure, and it's kind of an 13 industry standard as a way to estimate what goes down 14 the sewer. 15 There are some rate payers in the city of 16 St. Louis, residential ones, who don't have meters. 17 They are billed by their water provider, the City of 18 St. Louis, based on the attributes of the home that 19 represent the amount of users, number of rooms, number 20 of water closets, different characteristics within the 21 home. We use that same data from the water provider 22 there to estimate what is the water usage that is then 23 going down our sewers. 24 So as I'm going through these, I'm going 25 to give an average monthly cost for the typical PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 17 1 customers, what most people see. If yours isn't this 2 number, that's perfectly understandable. What I'd ask 3 you to concentrate on is the percent change that I'm 4 going to give. Whatever your actual rate is, these 5 percentages will apply. 6 So first of all, we have under the old 7 rate proposal there will be a new increase that goes 8 in place with your August billing. That's the end of 9 the old rate cycle, and that's what we're here going 10 right now as to what happens in the future. 11 So if you are a typical customer, in the 12 summer of 2020, and that's what we see for fiscal '21, 13 we are proposing a 1.9 percent increase in your 14 monthly charge for wastewater. That will put the 15 typical customer $56.63, and that's what you see on 16 the light blue bar. 17 If you look under fiscal year 2022, we're 18 proposing a 3.8 percent increase from the previous 19 year. That means for the typical customer, the 20 average monthly bill would go from $56.63 to $58.78. 21 Fiscal year '23, which would be the 22 billing starting in the summer of 2022. Again, there 23 would be another 3.8 percent increase, bringing the 24 average monthly bill for a typical customer to $61.02. 25 And then our last year of this four-year PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 18 1 rate cycle, fiscal '24, another 3.8 percent increase 2 to bring the average monthly bill to $63.36. That's 3 what you see on the light blue bars and under the 4 first row on this slide. 5 Now, I mentioned earlier that is what we 6 are proposing and recommending to our Rate Commission. 7 However, that is a bonded scenario, assuming we get 8 approval for $500 million of additional bonding. 9 If we don't, what you see on the dark 10 blue bars as well as under that second column that's 11 on the sheet you had, you will see that rates do 12 something different. 13 So whatever your typical -- whatever your 14 charge happens to be, the first year there's a 1.9 15 percent. It's the same increase under either scenario 16 if we have bonding or not. Gives us flexibility about 17 when to vote. 18 But then you see if we don't have 19 additional bonding, then -- if we don't have 20 additional bonding, then you'll see that every year we 21 have double digit increases, 15.1 percent fiscal '22, 22 17.1 percent fiscal 2023, and 13.1 percent fiscal 23 2024. 24 Again, it'll be up to the rate payers to 25 decide which one of those. It's kind of the same PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 19 1 decision you have when you buy a house or you buy a 2 car. If you want to spend less right now today on a 3 house, you borrow money, you spend less per month than 4 you would if you paid cash. 5 However, in the long run, you pay more 6 money than you would as if you paid cash. 7 So that's kind of the decision we'll 8 leave out to the rate payers, which they decide we 9 should go. 10 So cost savings. There are some cost 11 savings we'd had over the last four years that are 12 going to get put into and benefit this next four-year 13 cycle. The first one again, is the impact of the 2018 14 Consent Decree amendment. As I mentioned, we signed a 15 23-year Consent Decree. The EPA and the Department of 16 Justice have recently agreed to make that an 17 additional five years to 28 years to do essentially 18 the same work. That allows us to spread the work out, 19 have a positive impact on the rates. 20 Our operation and maintenance expenses, 21 cost of capital program, and the financing costs. 22 I'll go over some numbers. I'm going to kind of work 23 at the bottom of the slide. 24 Our financing costs, in other words, what 25 it costs us to borrow money. Over the last four PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 20 1 years, we came in $27 million cheaper than what we had 2 projected in the previous four years. 3 Our finance people did a very good job of 4 finding opportunities to buy low-interest loans. We 5 participated and qualified for a WIFIA loan through 6 the federal government. If you don't know what that 7 is, it was a new program that allowed us to borrow 8 money at Treasury rates. 9 We were one of seven cities that 10 qualified, one of our proposals, to be able to take 11 that money. That decreased our rates. 12 We actually refinanced some of our debts, 13 and kept it tax exempt and were able to take 14 higher-interest debt and refinance at a lower 15 interest. That option has now kind of gone away 16 because of the change in the tax law, but it's 17 instances and every time we have an opportunity to do 18 something cheaper than anticipated, we're always 19 looking for ways to try and do stuff cheaper than what 20 we originally proposed. 21 Capital program came in 7 percent under 22 budget. We kept all our schedules with the Consent 23 Decree, all our regulatory requirements, all the 24 requirements from the Department of Justice. That 25 saved $110 million. We're constantly trying to find PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 21 1 ways to make the program cheaper, to do things more 2 cost-effectively. 3 One of the things we're still 4 continuously benefiting from in our industry in St. 5 Louis, a lot of work we do we still have a lot of 6 competition in a few of the areas. And that's 7 fortunate for us. It's important that that 8 continuously driving prices down, what you normally 9 see throughout the country. We take advantage of 10 that. 11 And then our operation and maintenance 12 expense came in 5 percent over that four years, 5 13 percent under what our expenses were. We save $43 14 million from what we thought we were going to expend 15 in the last four years. 16 A lot of that is just good practical 17 review and management. A lot of it's taking advantage 18 of technology. For instance, one of the changes we 19 made. We used to inspect sewers with a four-man crew 20 with a big truck that would TV the line and clean it 21 up. And that was the way we would do our mandated 22 sewer inspections on a regular basis. 23 We checked out a new technology that 24 allows us to take two men in a pickup truck and go to 25 two manholes, put an ultrasonic emitter on one manhole PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 22 1 and a receiver on the other, and based on the strength 2 of the wave, determine whether or not the sewer is 3 clean. 4 It lets us get a lot more done much 5 quicker, and it also is just simply a lot cheaper to 6 have those kinds of resources out. 7 So the reason I'm mentioning this, two 8 things happened with those savings. One we are a 9 municipal entity so that money doesn't go to our 10 stockholders. It doesn't go for bonuses. It sits in 11 our general fund. It's the first source of money we 12 use to pay for all the improvements for this next four 13 years. So that's one of the things that helped keep 14 the prices down. 15 The other thing is a lot of those are 16 moment-of-opportunity type savings. There are a few 17 like the technology which are continuous and allow us 18 also to just simply decrease the costs we anticipate 19 over the next four years. 20 So the timeline. I'm going to repeat 21 some of the things that the Chairman mentioned, but we 22 submitted a rate proposal to our Rate Commission on 23 March 4th. The Rate Commission does have to have its 24 recommendation of those proposed rates for our Board 25 of Trustees by August 16th. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 23 1 Our Board of Trustees will then take 2 those recommendations. They haven't seen the detailed 3 recommendations yet. Our process is for staff to 4 present it to the Rate Commission, let the Rate 5 Commission form an opinion, send that to our Board of 6 Trustees. Then our Board of Trustees will review the 7 recommendation of the Rate Commission, and they'll 8 review it against those same five factors that I 9 mentioned earlier. 10 They will go through their public process 11 of considering ordinances, and they will decide 12 ultimately where to move forward on this rate 13 proposal. 14 That should be completed sometime near 15 the end of the calendar year. As to when we will come 16 to the voters with whatever the proposal ends up being 17 as to whether or not to use additional bonding to help 18 fund this, somewhere between spring 2020 and spring 19 2021. 20 We want to try and find the right date 21 where we can provide sufficient information to 22 everybody so they know what they're voting on. One of 23 the most important parts of this process is to let you 24 know sort- and long-term what happens to rate if I 25 vote for bonds, what happens to rate if I vote no for PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 24 1 bonds. And that's a lot of information we'll provide 2 prior to any kind of vote. 3 You are at the third public hearing. A 4 list of these public hearings are on the Rate 5 Commission's website, on ours. There are two more. 6 One in Maryland Heights and one at UMSL. The dates 7 shown on the screen. And then on Wednesday, July 8 24th, there will be a final public hearing at MSD 9 itself to go over this same information. 10 So before I hand it back to the Chairman, 11 as I mentioned before, remember, especially if you've 12 got a stormwater problem or something like that, we 13 have staff here. We can answer those questions after 14 this presentation. Or if you've got a billing issue, 15 we have staff here that can address that afterwards if 16 you wish, if you've got some issues that are outside 17 of this hearing. 18 Mr. Chairman, that's it. 19 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Thank you, 20 Mr. Hoelsher, and I think we're getting some names on 21 the clipboard. So while we're doing that, just to 22 mention, on that last public hearing at MSD, that is 23 also going to be streamed on Facebook. So if you want 24 to hear more about what's going on and hear this 25 information -- this is a lot of information to digest PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 25 1 -- you have an opportunity to hear this again. 2 Also all the information that we're 3 talking about is on the MSD Rate Commission website. 4 All the details that we've gone over, all the public 5 hearings, and all the facts that have been presented 6 by the District are available for you to read. 7 It's a lot of information. It's there, 8 and that's the information that the 15 Rate 9 Commissioners have been poring over over the last two 10 months, three months, since March 14th. 11 Okay. First person is Elaine Laura. 12 MS. ELAIN LAURA: Thank you. 13 Thank you very much for both of these off-site 14 meetings. 15 I have a couple of questions for the 16 gentleman if I might. 17 I really enjoy reading the poplar and the 18 financial report that MSD submitted, and on page 13, 19 it's highlighted. MSD has over $73 million in land. 20 And I was wondering has any thought been given to sell 21 some of that land off to offset this high increase? 22 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Good 23 question. 24 Mr. Hoelsher? 25 MR. HOELSHER: That land, do PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 26 1 you want me to speak to what that land actually is? 2 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Sure. 3 MS. LAURA: And I have two 4 other questions. 5 MR. HOELSHER: So do you want 6 me to go over them one at a time? 7 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: You can 8 answer them one at a time. 9 MR. HOELSHER: Okay. 10 So MSD constantly goes over the inventory 11 that's existing property to know whether or not we 12 need that property. All of the times we get property 13 either folks default and they sell it to us, or we've 14 had facilities at locations and we no longer need 15 those. 16 We are constantly looking to sell those 17 properties off. We do have some very large 18 facilities. There are seven very large treatment 19 plants that are included in that number. We also have 20 three maintenance yards that operate and maintain the 21 collection system. 22 So we constantly are selling that 23 property. It's to a benefit for us to sell it because 24 quite honestly it can be a liability if we have that 25 property and we're not using it. We also have costs. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 27 1 We have to cut the grass and those types of things. 2 There are other instances where we have 3 property we can't give up, and a good example is River 4 Des Peres since it's so large. The River Des Peres 5 right-of-way goes up into the parking lots of a lot of 6 the businesses that you see along River Des Peres. 7 So whenever we have an opportunity and 8 somebody wants to lease property for us, as long as we 9 can get the correct arrangements so we and our rate 10 payers aren't held responsible if something happens, 11 we lease that as often as we can. 12 So I can commit to you we identify. 13 There's a process where we identify excess property. 14 We go to our Board, and they approve it and we put it 15 up for sale. Or oftentimes, we conveniently just sell 16 it to another government entity. 17 A good example would be -- and I don't 18 think anybody recognized it -- City of Crestwood. 19 There was a storage tank that we as part of this 20 capital project, project clear, if you read the news. 21 That site was the site of Crestwood's 22 maintenance yard. Prior to that, it was actually the 23 site of an MSD maintenance yard that we moved out of 24 and sold it to the city. 25 That's our normal process, whenever we PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 28 1 have land we no longer need, we sell that. 2 MS. LAURA: So when was the 3 last time you sold some property? 4 MR. HOELSHER: I would have to 5 go back and check. I think the last time we checked, 6 there wasn't any available, and that has probably been 7 in the last year and a half I think is when we 8 checked. 9 We don't -- things don't change that 10 much. If we lose large properties, we do it, but I 11 would have to go back and check, and I don't know the 12 details. There is no large tracts that are left 13 anymore for us to sell. 14 MS. LAURA: And then my next 15 question is, on many of your charts that I've seen, 16 you always give the -- based on the typical monthly 17 water usage, and you use the metered account for that. 18 And the metered accounts, as I 19 understand, they fluctuate and in terms of how much 20 the homeowner or business might need to pay monthly. 21 But do you have an average typical cost? 22 I spoke to Rick in the St. Louis Water Department, and 23 he stated that 95 percent of St. Louis city water 24 customers are unmetered. 25 So do you have an average metered -- PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 29 1 average unmetered cost? 2 MR. HOELSHER: Sure. I would 3 -- let's go back to -- Mr. Chairman? 4 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Just go 5 ahead right, yes, please. 6 MR. HOELSHER: I was thinking 7 about her answer. Okay. 8 So I think I'll go into a little more 9 detail when I answer your question about that. 10 So in the county, all residential 11 customers are metered, and again, we use the winter 12 water usage there. The average amount of usage -- or 13 the typical amount of usage in a metered residential 14 area is 6 ccfs, which are six 100 cubic feet per 15 month. Which is about 4,500 gallons per month. 16 As far as all the commercial and 17 industrial, we do take their meter readings year round 18 because they aren't driven as much by weather and the 19 climate as to how their usage changes. There's a lot 20 of other things going on. So we're continuously 21 reading them on sub schedules throughout the year. 22 For the City of St. Louis for the 23 unmetered customers, what we had done when we put this 24 program in place, we took the attributes the City of 25 St. Louis water uses to charge -- to determine how PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 30 1 much water you use, and we applied a flow rate to 2 those based on what was typical in the industry. 3 So we add those rates together, and that 4 then gives us what the -- what the typical wastewater 5 usage would be for an individual home in the city, 6 depending on the attributes of that home. Again, 7 number of rooms, number of water closets, those types 8 of things. 9 Now, technology is changing. Out in the 10 county where we're metering, we know that usage is 11 slowly going down. People are using less water. 12 There are facilities and shower heads, those types of 13 things that use less water. 14 So we did a review three years ago. 15 Right, Marion? 16 MR. GEE: Right. 17 MR. HOELSHER: Yeah, four years 18 ago. So the rate cycle four years ago, we went back 19 and took a look at the numbers we're using in the city 20 and compared those concerning technological changes 21 going on through homes. 22 So what we did four years ago that we 23 didn't do in the county but we did for the city prior 24 to starting the rate proposal, we immediately lowered 25 all of the usage of all the non-metered customers by PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 31 1 10 percent. Because we have no way of capturing that 2 other than doing those kinds of studies, because all 3 of all our information for billing comes from the 4 water provider. 5 So we're somewhat a slave to the type of 6 information they have. But that did give us the 7 ability to make an adjustment for the city water users 8 to be able to make an adjustment for just less usage 9 by customers in general. 10 MS. LAURA: But you can't 11 generate a chart like that or -- 12 MR. GEE: It's in the rate 13 change proposal. 14 MR. HOELSHER: It's in the rate 15 change proposal. It's almost identical, right? 16 MR. GEE: Yeah, it's very 17 close. 18 MR. HOELSHER: It's very, very 19 close to being actually the same. It's not on that 20 sheet, ma'am. I think what I would offer is 21 afterwards, it's in this -- we have a chart like that 22 for the city customers, and I can show it to you after 23 the meeting. It's almost identical to those numbers 24 you see there. 25 MS. LAURA: Okay. And then PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 32 1 thank you, everybody. I just had three questions. 2 I'm very concerned that MSD does -- is 3 not able to borrow -- or let me rephrase that. 4 Is MSD able to give expert advice to the 5 88 municipalities that they serve in terms of managing 6 their flood planes and building in areas that are 7 prone to flooding or whatever it is that the new tax 8 proposal is addressing? 9 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: We can 10 address that a little bit. Again, this proposal is 11 for wastewater, not stormwater. 12 The stormwater proposal was on the ballad 13 this past spring, and that was one of the things that 14 was trying to address is some of those very issues. 15 And MSD has in the past worked with municipalities to 16 help them with those issues. 17 The issue is there's no money to take 18 care of a lot of them. Some of the municipalities 19 have elected to do their own tax structure to fix some 20 of those on their own. 21 But the voters decided not to increase 22 their rates to take care of those flooding issues that 23 you're referring to. So this particulate rate issues 24 is related to wastewater, not stormwater. That was 25 addressed in our last rate review, which was at the PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 33 1 voters, as I shared, this past spring, which failed. 2 Does that answer your question? 3 MS. LAURA: Okay. Yes. Thank 4 you. 5 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Anything 6 else, Ms. Laura? Very good question. We appreciate 7 it. 8 MS. LAURA: No, I think that's 9 it. 10 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: If you have 11 some more before the night's out, do you agree to 12 speak up again. 13 MS. LAURA: Uh-huh. 14 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: The next 15 person was Paul -- and forgive me -- Kachulis. 16 MR. PAUL KACHULIS: Very good. 17 Very good. I live in Rock Hill. You mentioned that 18 you have a system for low-income families. Can you 19 describe what that policy is and how it -- the 20 requirements for that? 21 MR. HOELSHER: Yes. So what 22 I'm going to do is my Director of Finance happens to 23 be here, and I think he can give the full details on 24 that very thing. 25 MR. GEE: There are -- we do PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 34 1 have a customer assistance program. It is tied to 2 federal poverty levels and number of individuals that 3 are in a household. 4 Basically the way it works is if you 5 qualify, you receive a 50 percent discount off your 6 sewer bill. 7 We also have a discount that's available 8 for disabled individuals as well. The discount works 9 the same way. If you qualify, you would get a 50 10 percent discount off of your bill. 11 There is information on our website. If 12 you go to our website and search for customer 13 assistance programs, it will give you the tables with 14 the income amounts that would allow you to qualify 15 based on the size of your household. 16 MR. KACHULIS: Is that the only 17 place that you advertise that you have that? 18 MR. GEE: No. We actually 19 advertise on our bills. We put information in billing 20 services. We also work with various community 21 organizations, United Way, Urban League. We work with 22 churches to advertise as well. 23 So we have tried to work with as many 24 organizations as we can to get the word out. We also 25 have paid for radio advertising on various stations to PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 35 1 advertise this program. 2 And I'm always asking our employees to -- 3 if you know of any individuals at your churches or if 4 you run into, please tell them about the program. 5 It's our goal to get as many people as we can 6 enrolled. 7 MR. KACHULIS: Okay. Thank 8 you. 9 MR. GEE: You're welcome. 10 MR. KACHULIS: Now, the rate 11 increase that you're proposing, that's for residential 12 and commercial? 13 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Right. 14 MR. KACHULIS: Okay. Now, 15 you're just correcting problems that the EPA addressed 16 in their report back a number of years ago? 17 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: What was 18 the breakdown again, Mr. Hoelsher, of what this money 19 will cover? 20 MR. HOELSHER: The senior 21 portion is related to that and debt. I believe there 22 is some -- 23 MR. GEE: Yeah. So MSD's 24 mission is to meet federal and state regulations. So 25 understand that's our starting point. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 36 1 So based on when we talk about these four 2 years, 50 to 55 percent of this rate proposal is to 3 meet those immediate needs based on regulatory 4 requirements, whether it comes out of our Consent 5 Decree with the Department of Justice or meeting EPA 6 requirements. It's something over 99 percent of these 7 projects. 8 There's a few other ones that have to do 9 with customer service numbers. 10 25 percent or so of our operations -- 11 this budget we're proposing goes to operations, and 12 there's a lot of our operational activities like 13 inspecting sewers and how often we do rehab that are 14 actually part of that Consent Decree as well. 15 So I could argue it's a federal 16 requirement, but it's us maintaining and operating the 17 existing facilities we have so that they don't fall in 18 disrepair again. 19 And they're about 20 percent of the money 20 we're asking for is paying the debt service for 21 borrowing already done and borrowing we're 22 anticipating over the next four years. 23 MR. KACHULIS: Now, inspecting 24 sewers. Are you inspecting the connection? You know, 25 we have a lot of older buildings in this area that PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 37 1 were built a long time ago. Are you checking those 2 connections, that they are no broken, or how do you go 3 about doing that? 4 MR. HOELSHER: Shall I go 5 ahead? 6 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Yes, 7 please. 8 MR. HOELSHER: I'll give you 9 the typical one that you're thinking of that they just 10 checked, and we go through this whenever installs a 11 new system. 12 MR. KACHULIS: Yeah. 13 MR. HOELSHER: We inspect the 14 new ones. 15 On the old ones, early on to this 16 program, the main cause of our issues is something 17 other than sanitary waste getting into the sanitary 18 sewers, -- 19 MR. KACHULIS: Agreed. 20 MR. HOELSHER: -- stormwater, 21 groundwater, whatever that is. That involves checking 22 the sources of those flow problems was from private 23 sources from homes. And that quite honestly is the 24 major source, is the plumbing issues within private 25 homes is a major source of our issue that we're trying PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 38 1 to address. 2 So we did take a look at connections, 3 what does that contribute. We did take a look at 4 joints in the lateral itself, what does that 5 contribute. The biggest one we find, and we've even 6 got a program that we've done actual replacements, 7 there are homes that are built where the downspouts 8 from roofs are inappropriately connected to the 9 sanitary system and they'll go out from the storm. 10 We actually took it upon ourselves to 11 identify the ones that are causing overflows and we're 12 paying to have those disconnected. 13 So right now the program is set up. There 14 are still going to be some remaining issues where a 15 small amount of stormwater comes in, but we're 16 confident we've identified enough flow throughout the 17 system to achieve our primary goal, which is to 18 prevent any kind of overflows. 19 There will always be some increase in 20 flow when it rains, but we're moving enough of those 21 extraneous flows of stormwater and groundwater to make 22 sure that our system functions properly, no longer 23 discharges sewage into the environment. 24 MR. KACHULIS: Okay. Thank 25 you. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 39 1 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Thank you, 2 Mr. Kachulis. 3 Next person, Marty Corcoran. 4 MR. MARTY CORCORAN: Yeah. Two 5 part question. You gave us a five-year synopsis on 6 bonds versus pay-as-you-go. I'm assuming those aren't 7 five-year bonds. 8 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Go ahead. 9 MR. HOELSHER: So they are 10 different bonds. They're repetitive. Right now state 11 is still 20. So one of the best programs we get for 12 borrowing money is something called the State 13 Revolving Fund. 14 The State gets money from the federal 15 government. They give out loans. They provide a 70 16 percent subsidy. What we do is those loans are 20 17 years in length. Length is 20. 18 MR. CORCORAN: Okay. 19 MR. HOELSHER: And then we also 20 go out on the open market, and those -- depending on 21 what the best scenario is, the best buy for the 22 District, we can have anywhere from 20- and 30-year 23 long bonds. 24 MR. CORCORAN: I understand. 25 So it is a 20-year or longer bond? PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 40 1 MR. HOELSHER: Yes. 2 MR. CORCORAN: Versus 3 pay-as-you-go. At what point does the line intersect 4 and pay-as-you-go becomes cheaper than the bond? 5 MR. HOELSHER: It's some years. 6 Again, we are right now, the major part of the Consent 7 Decree, there was a goal to have almost the major part 8 done by 2023. So when we're close to the peak of 9 that, things will start going up. 10 We do get out ten years from now. The 11 end of the Consent Decree is 2039. Well before that, 12 we're going to start coming to a point where staff is 13 probably going to come to the Rate Commission and say 14 hey, we think pay-go is the appropriate way to move 15 forward. 16 We often -- we always offer two options. 17 Right now I can tell you the long-term outlook is we 18 kind of give some estimates. We gave the Rate 19 Commission an estimate for 2025 to 2028. 20 Right now if we keep bonding those 21 increases at least over the next eight years, looks 22 like inflation, that's about the level of the 23 increase, but we do hit a part where we will end up 24 with staff recommending the Board to do pay-as-go and 25 not borrow any money. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 41 1 But so you understand, this is not -- 2 staff doesn't get to decide this. The Rate Commission 3 doesn't get to decide this. It's the voters that end 4 up getting to decide which way we go. 5 MR. CORCORAN: You've got a 6 goal of what you want to spend for a project and what 7 you're going to do with bonds. And you've got a goal 8 of what that's going to cost you. 9 At some point in time, the financing line 10 and the pay-as-you-go line are going to intersect. 11 MR. HOELSHER: Correct. 12 MR. CORCORAN: Okay, so many 13 years out. And that's the question. When do they 14 intersect? 15 MR. HOELSHER: Okay. It is 16 somewhere around ten years. 17 Marion, am I saying that right? 18 MR. GEE: I'd have to -- I 19 mean, it's definitely out in that range. I'd have to 20 look to see when they intersect. 21 MR. HOELSHER: It's not within 22 the next eight years. It's somewhere between there 23 and 16. 24 MR. GEE: It's somewhere in 25 there. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 42 1 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: And let's 2 just -- 3 MR. HOELSHER: Because a lot of 4 things could impact it like what do the real cost of 5 things come to. How much cost change. What happens 6 to interest. That's a huge number. What happens to 7 the price we get for projects. 8 So we will give -- if we come to the 9 vote, what we're going to do is that's the type of 10 information. We'll give as much realtime data as we 11 can to voters to understand what we project it looking 12 like in the future. 13 MR. CORCORAN: I think that's 14 critical. 15 MR. HOELSHER: Yeah. 16 MR. CORCORAN: Over 10 years, 17 it becomes cheaper for me to pay as I go versus 20 18 years, that's something the rate payers need to know. 19 MR. HOELSHER: Yes. And so to 20 have a long-term outlook, that's again something staff 21 will present when it comes time to go to the polls. 22 We do -- we only set rates every four years. 23 So we'll be coming to the Rate 24 Commission, I suspect, I'm looking forward to the day 25 when staff comes to the Rate Commission and says we're PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 43 1 to a point where it's not cost-effective to borrow 2 money anymore. We think we ought to be just using the 3 rates as they're coming because the program's done. 4 We're paying off O and M, we're paying off most of the 5 debt service, and the size of the capital program's 6 increased. So maybe we can consider that. 7 MR. CORCORAN: Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Thank you, 9 Mr. Corcoran. 10 Next gentleman, Mr. Earl Wendt. 11 MR. EARL WENDT: Thank you, Mr. 12 Schoedel. 13 I want to make sure since we're talking 14 about stormwater and wastewater. Are the numbers that 15 are in this chart, this is -- this is the combination 16 of everything in the typical average consumer, or is 17 there -- are there some stormwater numbers off to the 18 side that aren't being reflected here? 19 MR. HOELSHER: Okay. What 20 we're proposing here is solely wastewater. 21 Now our discussion about stormwater 22 getting into the wastewater system is a wastewater 23 issue. So we're not talking about the stormwater 24 program at all. Right now, in addition to these 25 numbers, the community is paying two sources of PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 44 1 stormwater revenue to MSD. They're both property 2 taxes. 3 One is 2 cents for $100 valuation that 4 shows up on your property tax every year. And the 5 other that was voted in place three years ago, Prop S, 6 in April 2016, 10 cents per $100 valuation. 7 Those are MSD's two current funding 8 sources for stormwater. 9 We proposed another service that we don't 10 provide right now, and that got turned down this 11 spring. So we're not collecting on that revenue, and 12 we're also not providing that service. 13 MR. WENDT: So the fact that we 14 turned that down has absolutely nothing to do with 15 this discussion? 16 MR. HOELSHER: That's correct. 17 MR. WENDT: So I guess my other 18 question is: What else is on the table in your 19 projections that four years from now these numbers are 20 then going to go from $63.36 to $75.54 then? 21 It seems to me we need to see numbers 22 that are a little longer. 23 MR. HOELSHER: So what we've 24 done in the rate proposal and we want to remember the 25 further out we get, interest all that stuff. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 45 1 So in the rate proposal, we have it 2 presented in here, we show the Rate Commission without 3 any manipulation of the numbers, we're trying to 4 normalize them. We showed them what we thought the 5 increases would look like from 2025 to 2028 under both 6 the bonding and non-bonding. 7 That information is in the rate proposal. 8 What I'd suggest what we might want to do after this 9 meeting, if you'd like to see that, we can take one of 10 the proposals and show the exact and where it is. 11 MR. WENDT: Okay. 12 MR. HOELSHER: Where we have 13 committed to, when a vote option comes up for this 14 four years, we'll provide information beyond that to 15 give people as much information as we can as to which 16 option they think makes more sense. 17 MR. WENDT: Then I'll just make 18 a comment that I think you all need to do a much 19 better job of communicating to the population about 20 these proposals. When there is tax increases that 21 were going on and bond issues, and I'm not saying -- I 22 voted for it, but I just think you need to do a much 23 better job. 24 MR. HOELSHER: Appreciate it. 25 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Thank you. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 46 1 Any other questions from the participants tonight? 2 (NONE){FLUSH} 3 Rate Commissioners, do you have any 4 questions or comments? 5 (NONE) 6 COMMISSION MEMBER: There were 7 very good questions, and thanks for the feedback and 8 the comments tonight. Very good questions for us to 9 have information. 10 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: I have one 11 for Marion. 12 Approximately how many customers right 13 now are taking advantage of the customer assistance 14 program? 15 MR. GEE: Right now it's 16 approximately 4,000 customers. 17 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Four 18 thousand. So there's a lot of work to be done there 19 as well. 20 MR. GEE: Yes. 21 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: And I think 22 you might have shared this, but what is the reduction 23 in their monthly fee? 24 MR. GEE: It's 50 percent. 25 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Fifty PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 47 1 percent. Okay. 2 MS. LAURA: You have to been 3 dirt poor to be eligible on that. 4 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Pardon? 5 MS. LAURA: To be eligible for 6 that program, you almost have to be dirt poor. I 7 mean, it's based upon the federal guidelines for the 8 poverty level, and I don't think most homeowners -- 9 MR. HOELSHER: There's some 10 percentage of that is to -- 11 MR. GEE: It's 200 percent of 12 the federal poverty level, and actually our guidelines 13 are less stringent than the lottery program which is 14 heating assistance programs. And there are a lot more 15 people that participate in that programs and the 16 government than the MSD program. Which is why we're 17 trying to get the word out. 18 So I don't think we necessary are at the 19 poverty level itself. It's actually a multiplier of 20 the poverty level. 21 CHAIRMAN SCHOEDEL: Just one 22 other comment concerning trying to get the public 23 aware of this issue. It's a very complex one. As the 24 Rate Commission, we engage in a PR person to help us 25 try to get more input from you. PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 48 1 And each time we do this, we try to learn 2 from the past and do better. This time you'll notice 3 we had several streaming options. We're starting to 4 advantage of the technology that is available, and 5 we're getting more results. More people at least are 6 hearing it. 7 But when you look at the percentage of 8 people attending these and that information it is 9 still very small than the number of people that are 10 impacted. 11 It's a complex issue. So tell your 12 people to come to the next public hearing, which as we 13 shared earlier is at Maryland Heights in their 14 Community Center on June 27th. So if you want to hear 15 this again, come to that event, but tell others about 16 it because we need this information out so that you 17 can ask those questions and we can hear you so we can 18 properly review this. 19 Hearing nothing else, I consider this 20 public hearing adjourned. 21 Thank you for your attendance and your 22 input. 23 (THEREUPON, THE PROCEEDINGS 24 CONCLUDED AT 6:55 p.m.) 25 o8o PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 49 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 I, PATSY A. MAYBERRY, Professional Court 3 Reporter and Notary Public within and for the State of 4 Missouri, before whom the foregoing proceeding was 5 taken, do hereby swear that: the aforementioned was 6 held at the time and in the place previously 7 described; the proceedings were taken down in 8 stenographic notes by me and transcribed by me, or 9 under my supervision, to the best of my ability; and 10 that the aforementioned represents a true and accurate 11 transcript of said proceedings. 12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 13 my hand. 14 ________________________________ 15 Patsy A. Mayberry, Court Reporter 16 Notary Public, State of Missouri 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES A ability 12:21 13:2 31:7 49:9 able 20:10,13 31:8 32:3,4 absolutely 44:14 account 28:17 accounts 28:18 accurate 49:10 achieve 38:17 Act 10:19 11:18 activities 36:12 actual 17:4 38:6 add 30:3 addition 13:16 43:24 additional 5:15 10:22 13:22 18:8,19,20 19:17 23:17 address 24:15 32:10,14 38:1 addressed 32:25 35:15 addressing 32:8 adequate 12:22 adjourned 48:20 ADJOURNME... 2:9 adjustment 31:7 31:8 adopted 5:24 advantage 21:9 21:17 46:13 48:4 advertise 34:17 34:19,22 35:1 advertising 34:25 advice 32:4 affordability 14:5,11 aforemention... 49:5,10 ago 30:14,18,18 30:22 35:16 37:1 44:5 agree 33:11 agreed 19:16 37:19 ahead 29:5 37:5 39:8 ALARIS 1:23 allow 11:21,22 13:16 22:17 34:14 allowed 20:7 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27:13 28:3 44:1,4 proposal 2:6 5:19 6:1 7:8 8:23 9:22 12:3,15,18 14:19 17:7 22:22 23:13 23:16 30:24 31:13,15 32:8 32:10,12 36:2 44:24 45:1,7 proposals 20:10 45:10 45:20 propose 15:5 proposed 5:11 8:2 12:8 20:20 22:24 44:9 proposing 9:1 10:9,13,20 17:13,18 18:6 35:11 36:11 43:20 provide 12:22 23:21 24:1 39:15 44:10 45:14 provided 7:17 provider 16:7,17 16:21 31:4 providing 44:12 provision 9:4 provisions 12:25 public 1:8 2:7 4:7,17 6:24 7:1 7:6,11 13:16,21 23:10 24:3,4,8 24:22 25:4 47:22 48:12 48:20 49:3,16 published 7:1 purpose 6:10 7:7 put 17:14 19:12 21:25 27:14 29:23 34:19 Q qualified 20:5 20:10 qualifies 15:2 qualify 34:5,9 34:14 quarters 16:4 question 13:25 14:1 25:23 28:15 29:9 33:2,6 39:5 41:13 44:18 questions 7:13 7:14,23 8:13 9:22,23,25 24:13 25:15 26:4 32:1 46:1 46:4,7,8 48:17 quick 15:16 quicker 22:5 quite 11:12 26:24 37:23 R R 1:22 3:1 4:1 radio 34:25 rains 11:3 38:20 rainwater 11:4 Raise 9:20 raised 6:11,17 range 41:19 rate 1:8 4:5,9,14 4:21,22 5:4,7 5:7,9,11,13,14 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remember 9:12 24:11 44:24 repeat 22:20 repetitive 39:10 rephrase 32:3 replaced 11:16 replacements 38:6 replacing 11:13 report 5:10,14 5:18 6:17 25:18 35:16 REPORTED 1:21 Reporter 2:10 49:1,3,15 represent 4:23 16:19 representation 4:20 representative 4:22 represented 7:19 represents 12:1 49:10 request 5:17 10:21 requesting 12:2 requests 6:9 required 10:18 requirement 11:16,17,18 36:16 requirements 10:18 12:11,16 20:23,24 33:20 36:4,6 requires 4:18 residential 4:24 16:16 29:10,13 35:11 resolve 11:23 resources 22:6 responsible 27:10 rest 8:8,11 12:4 results 48:5 revenue 44:1,11 revenues 9:14 9:15,17 review 4:14 21:17 23:6,8 30:14 32:25 48:18 reviewed 12:12 Revolving 39:13 RICHMOND 1:12 Rick 28:22 right 8:9 12:17 14:2,12 17:10 19:2 23:20 29:5 30:15,16 31:15 35:13 38:13 39:10 40:6,17,20 41:17 43:24 44:10 46:12,15 right-of-way PUBLIC HEARING 6/4/2019 www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES 27:5 River 27:3,4,6 Rock 33:17 roofs 38:8 room 8:7 rooms 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