HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 118 - Transcript of May 20, 2015 Public Hearing PUBLIC HEARING 5/20/2015
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8 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT
9 PUBLIC HEARING
10 MAY 20, 2015
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12 CENTER OF CLAYTON
13 50 GAY AVENUE
14 CLAYTON, MISSOURI
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17 (Hearing start time, 6:00 p.m.)
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1 I N D E X
2 PAGE
3 Introduction by Mr. Hawes 5
4 Presentation by Mr. Hoelscher 9
5 Public Hearing Session
6 Richard Bose 38, 52
7 Sarah Harris 39, 44
8 Stan Mulvihill 39, 47
9 Fred Brooks 41, 51
10 Conclusion 53
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14 (No exhibits marked.)
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1 PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS
2 SEWER DISTRICT, produced and examined on May 20,
3 2015, between the hours of 6:00 in the evening and
4 7:05 in the evening of that day, at the Center of
5 Clayton, 50 Gay Avenue, Clayton, Missouri, before
6 Suzanne M. Zes, a Certified Court Reporter of the
7 State of Missouri.
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1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2 For the MSD Rate Commission:
3 Russell Hawes
St. Louis County Municipal League
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Nancy Bowser
5 League of Women Voters of St. Louis
6 Eric Schneider
St. Louis Regional Chamber
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Chan Mahanta
8 North County Incorporated
9 John L. Stein
Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers
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11 Also Present:
12 Brian Hoelscher
Executive Director
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21 The Court Reporter:
22 Suzanne Zes
MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
23 711 North Eleventh Street
St. Louis, MO 63101
24 314.644.2191
314.644.1334 Fax
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 MR. HAWES: Good evening. I'm Russ
3 Hawes. I'm a member of the Metropolitan St. Louis
4 Sewer District Rate Commission and I'll be presiding
5 over the public hearing this evening.
6 With me today are the following MSD Rate
7 Commission members: Ms. Nancy Bowser, Mr. Chan
8 Mahanta and Mr. Eric Schneider.
9 The Charter Plan of the District was amended
10 at a general election on November 7th, 2000, and
11 established the Rate Commission to review and make
12 recommendations to the District regarding changes in
13 wastewater rates, stormwater rates, and tax rates
14 proposed by the District.
15 The Charter Plan requires the MSD Board of
16 Trustees to select organizations to ensure a fair
17 representation of all users of the District's
18 services on the Rate Commission. The Rate
19 Commission representative organizations are to
20 represent commercial-industrial users, residential
21 users and other organizations interested in the
22 operation of the District, including organizations
23 focusing on environmental issues, labor issues,
24 socio-economic issues, community-neighborhood
25 organizations and other non-profit organizations.
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1 The MSD Rate Commission currently consists of 15
2 members from organizations and institutions
3 throughout St. Louis City and County.
4 On February 26, 2015, the Rate Commission
5 received a Rate Change Notice proposing changes to
6 the District's wastewater rates and stormwater
7 revenues. The Rate Commission adopted Operational
8 Rules and a Procedural Schedule to govern the
9 proceedings on March 4th, 2015.
10 Under the current Procedural Schedule adopted
11 by the Rate Commission, which was extended by the
12 MSD Board of Trustees on May 14th, 2015 at the
13 request of the MSD Rate Commission, the MSD Rate
14 Commission has until August 10th, 2015 to review and
15 make a recommendation to the MSD Board of Trustees
16 as to whether the proposed rates should be approved,
17 not approved or modified with suggested changes and
18 then approved.
19 The MSD Rate Commission has engaged legal
20 counsel and a rate consultant independent of those
21 used by the MSD staff.
22 Under procedural rules adopted by the Rate
23 Commission, as amended, any person affected by the
24 Rate Change Proposal had an opportunity to submit an
25 application to intervene in these proceedings.
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1 Applications to intervene have been filed by the
2 Home Builders Association of St. Louis and the
3 Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers. These
4 applications have been granted.
5 Since February 26, 2015, the MSD Rate
6 Commission has received testimony from MSD staff.
7 The parties have also engaged in discovery requests.
8 Additional testimony from the intervenors and the
9 rate consultant will be filed.
10 A Prehearing Conference for the purposes of
11 identifying any issues raised by the Rate Setting
12 Documents and the prepared testimony previously
13 submitted will be conducted on the record. All
14 persons submitting testimony may participate in the
15 Prehearing Conference and each participant in the
16 Prehearing Conference shall submit a Prehearing
17 Conference Report describing the issues raised by
18 the Rate Setting Documents and the prepared
19 testimony, together with a brief description of such
20 participant's position, if any, on each issue and
21 the rationale therefor.
22 Ratepayers who do not wish to intervene are
23 permitted to participate in these on-the-record
24 public hearings conducted in nine sessions beginning
25 on May 11th, 2015, and concluding on June 9th, 2015.
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1 The Rate Commission published a Public Notice
2 regarding these proceedings in the St. Louis
3 Post-Dispatch and in the St. Louis American. These
4 notices contained the time, dates, and location of
5 each of the conferences and hearings.
6 The Public Hearing Session tonight is for the
7 purpose of permitting the District to present its
8 Wastewater and Stormwater Rate Change Proposal and
9 to permit any ratepayer an opportunity to comment.
10 We will begin with a presentation by the District,
11 followed by a public comment period.
12 Those wishing to speak should sign in on the
13 sheet provided and will be called on in the order of
14 the names listed thereon. Each ratepayer should
15 identify themselves and any organization represented
16 by such ratepayer.
17 Several housekeeping rules before we begin:
18 If you wish to present testimony please sign
19 in on the clipboard and I believe that's over there
20 to the side. Speakers will be recognized in the
21 order in which they sign up.
22 Several groups wrote in advance requesting
23 time to speak and they will be allowed to speak
24 first, if applicable.
25 Each ratepayer may have a maximum of ten
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1 minutes to speak regarding the proposed rate change.
2 As the presiding officer, I can limit or expand that
3 time, as I deem necessary.
4 The restrooms are located straight out the
5 hallway in that direction and to the left. And we
6 have snacks and drinks in the back there as well.
7 So, with that, I'm going to turn it over to
8 Brian Hoelscher to present on behalf of the
9 District.
10 MR. HOELSCHER: Thank you, Mr. Hawes.
11 My name is Brian Hoelscher. I'm the executive
12 director at MSD. What we're going to provide for
13 you is a summary of a Rate Proposal that was
14 submitted to the Rate Commission by MSD staff. At
15 the end of the presentation the floor will be opened
16 and the Rate Commission will be looking for comments
17 regarding the proposal that we present here this
18 evening.
19 After the meeting, the whole meeting is over,
20 we do have additional staff here so if you have
21 other questions of MSD or other issues you wish to
22 discuss, we have folks here that can either answer
23 your question or go back and do some research and
24 get the answer for you in the very near future.
25 As an introduction to the proposal, there's
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1 two things driving what MSD is looking to do. For
2 wastewater rates we are being driven by a Consent
3 Decree. That is an official document that we signed
4 and was also signed by the Department of Justice and
5 the EPA having to do with the wastewater work we
6 have to do. It sets the type of work we have to do
7 and the schedules. The cost of the projects you see
8 here are driven by schedules needed to meet that
9 agreement.
10 On the stormwater side you'll find that
11 because of the way MSD was developed approximately
12 one half of the public sewer system that is owned by
13 MSD has no revenue to support its operation and
14 maintenance. The District is looking to correct
15 that situation.
16 Again, please remember this is a summation of
17 the Rate Proposal. As I go through this there are
18 some references where they reference an appendix or
19 parts of our Rate Proposal. If you're interested in
20 the proposal itself and want to see some of the data
21 behind information we provide, you can go on the
22 website, W-W-W dot S-T-L-M-S-D dot com, to review
23 the Rate Proposal. We do have some copies up here
24 if you would like to take a glance at them this
25 evening as well.
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1 I'll go ahead and start the proposal -- or
2 the presentation. First of all, you want to
3 remember that MSD is essentially two utilities.
4 One, we provide a wastewater service and we collect
5 water that comes down sinks, toilets, washing
6 machines, showers, any other kind of floor drains,
7 that travels through miles of pipe, ends up in
8 treatment plants, gets treated per our permits and
9 discharged to the rivers in the area: the Missouri,
10 Mississippi and Meramec Rivers.
11 That service is currently funded through a
12 monthly wastewater bill for those who we provide
13 wastewater service for. Again, that's on a monthly
14 bill. That bill and those revenues can only be
15 spent on wastewater issues. We cannot spend them on
16 anything else.
17 We are also a stormwater utility. We perform
18 stormwater service. Any stormwater that doesn't hit
19 the ground and soak in or go directly to a local
20 creek or stream can go through a public storm sewer
21 system: inlets, manholes, storm sewers, in some
22 cases paved concrete channels that are MSD's. We
23 maintain those systems.
24 We are also required to address regulatory
25 requirements, that having to do with the pollutants
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1 that are in stormwater runoff and enter the local
2 creeks and streams and impact your water quality.
3 We do have a permitting and policing responsibility
4 with regard to those services.
5 Stormwater, while there is a small 24 cent
6 per month fee on your wastewater bill, stormwater is
7 primarily paid for through your annual property tax
8 bill. We collect those monies. They are only spent
9 on stormwater and cannot be used for wastewater
10 purposes.
11 A little information on the Rate Commission.
12 It was established by the voters of the District in
13 2000 to provide public input on how MSD sets its
14 rates. It consists of 15 organizations representing
15 a broad cross-section of the community, as explained
16 earlier. It reviews all the proposed rate changes.
17 There are Charter-defined parameters that they will
18 review our proposal. They will take that
19 recommendation and it will be sent to our Board of
20 Trustees, who will perform the same review and
21 render a ruling on where we go with rates in the
22 future.
23 Again, this Rate Proposal is for our Fiscal
24 Year 2017 through 2020, which covers July 1, 2016
25 through June 30, 2020.
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1 Some information on our current wastewater
2 rates. Right now we are working under a previously
3 approved Rate Proposal that covers our Fiscals 13
4 through 16. Under that proposal we identified that
5 we needed to start approximately $971 million worth
6 of capital work in that four-year period.
7 Right now it appears we will appropriate and
8 start $890 million of capital work in that four-year
9 period or about 95 percent of the suggested
10 amount -- of the anticipated amount. That's a good
11 number.
12 We are on schedule. We are on budget with
13 all the requirements in the Consent Decree. That
14 decrease comes through some efficiencies in
15 engineering and, in some cases, some very low prices
16 we've gotten for some of the work that we're still
17 letting out.
18 Any of that money that's not spent on capital
19 this year is then available for capital projects in
20 this current -- through the rate cycle that is being
21 considered by the Rate Commission right now.
22 On the operation and maintenance side, again,
23 we are again on time and under budget. Our
24 operation and maintenance activities are mandated by
25 the Consent Decree. We anticipated a revenue need
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1 of $716 million. By the end -- by June 30, 2016 we
2 anticipate to have spent $700 million or $16 million
3 less in budget.
4 Besides the operation of treatment plants and
5 pump stations located throughout our District, we
6 will have inspected about 62,000 manholes,
7 rehabilitated 6600 manholes, rehabilitated 1900
8 miles of sewers. And based on an analysis of two
9 similar storms that occurred years apart in the
10 northern half of the District we're estimating the
11 work to this date reduced basement backups by about
12 two-thirds from what they were previously.
13 Proposed wastewater rates, what are the
14 drivers? MSD's Project Clear is the program in
15 order to address these issues. The first one is get
16 the rain out. The primary issue we're addressing is
17 a wet weather issue. If it is not raining and as
18 long as nobody has flushed grease down our sewers
19 and clogged the pipes or a pipe hasn't collapsed,
20 all of that flow goes through our pipes, to the
21 plants, it's properly treated and discharged to the
22 local creeks and streams cleaner than it was --
23 cleaner than the creeks and streams are.
24 That system works fine when it's not raining.
25 When it rains, stormwater either that's not supposed
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1 to get in there or too much gets in the system
2 overcharges it and causes the system to overflow.
3 It either looks like overflows from our system or
4 basement backups.
5 One of the best, easiest and most
6 cost-effective ways to solve this problem is to get
7 the rain out, stop the stormwater from entering the
8 system originally. That's one of the biggest parts
9 of our program, whether that's entering the sanitary
10 system or the combined system. Stopping it from
11 going in and getting it out to the creeks and
12 streams without going through the system is the
13 cheapest way to address the issue.
14 Back-of-the-envelope analysis, it's four to
15 five times cheaper to do that than to actually
16 increase the size of the system.
17 We also need to repair and maintain the
18 current system we have. Some of it's over 150 years
19 old. We need to make sure we keep maintaining it so
20 it keeps lasting and, in some cases, we will be
21 required to build system improvements.
22 We look to do this in a financially
23 responsible manner and maintain our financial
24 stability. Currently MSD has a bond rating from
25 Standard & Poor's of AAA and AA1 and AA plus from
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1 Fitch and Moody's. The analysis we performed and
2 the proposal we're presenting is aimed at
3 maintaining at least a AA bond rating so that if we
4 do have to borrow money we can do so at favorable
5 rates and be cost-effective for the ratepayers.
6 What is in this program? For the next four
7 years we're proposing to start $1.5 billion worth of
8 capital work that's distributed over the four fiscal
9 years that you see in this chart totaling
10 $1.5 billion.
11 Operation and maintenance of the system.
12 We're looking at expenses in the neighborhood of
13 $736 million during that four-year period. And,
14 finally, debt service. $477 million worth of debt
15 service over those four years. Those would be both
16 bonds that had been sold prior to the Fiscal 17
17 through Fiscal 20 program, as well as bond that we
18 anticipate procuring if the voters authorize
19 additional bonding authority during 17 through 20.
20 What does the debt look like? We're looking
21 to fund the next four years of that $1.5 billion of
22 capital work through a combination of cash and
23 bonds. We're proposing $415 million of the work be
24 paid directly by cash. That's taking the monthly
25 bills you -- the cash you give us on your monthly
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1 bills and actually spending cash on the capital
2 program.
3 We're looking to bond finance $1.1 billion of
4 that work. That would assume that the ratepayers
5 authorize an additional $900 million worth of
6 additional bond authority. That, with $200 million
7 we anticipate being left over from the previous
8 cycle, is where we come up with the $1.1 billion.
9 That would bring our total debt authorization
10 to $2.62 billion. And all money borrowed with bonds
11 is used to fund the Capital Improvement Replacement
12 Program. It cannot be used for our operating
13 budget.
14 The work that would get done during that
15 period. Approximately 600 different capital
16 projects will be started. 230 of those will be
17 wastewater construction projects. We're
18 anticipating to remove 39 of the overflows that
19 we're required to move during that period and start
20 the design of 24 miles of storage and conveyance
21 tunnels.
22 There's some cases where we cannot get enough
23 flows out upstream to take care of the issue, so in
24 some places we will build underground storage via
25 tunnels or vaults. And when these overflows are
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1 ready to occur we will direct those flows to a
2 tunnel, we'll hold that flow until the storm is over
3 and then we'll seep it back into the system and
4 allow the wastewater treatment plants to treat the
5 flows as opposed to allowing them to discharge into
6 the environment.
7 The projects we're anticipating are
8 represented by little blue circles on this map. If
9 you look at this map the Mississippi River is to the
10 right or east. Missouri River to the north. The
11 Meramec River wiggles around on the southern edge of
12 our boundaries and to the west the red boundary you
13 see there is about Highway 109 in Wildwood.
14 Each one of these little circles represents a
15 project. If you looked at our Rate Proposal you
16 would find that there's a number in each one of
17 those circles. And in our Rate Proposal there's a
18 spreadsheet for that number that tells you what
19 problem we're solving, how we're going to solve it,
20 what it will cost and what year we plan on starting
21 the project. In our Rate Proposal is a spreadsheet
22 that gives that information.
23 Tonight we have a board over here that's
24 equivalent to that chart that you see on the screen,
25 as well we have the spreadsheet. So if you'd like
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1 to look tonight on a particular project and see what
2 it is, we do have that information here this
3 evening.
4 If you notice the reference at the bottom,
5 Appendix 7.2.2, if you went to our Rate Proposal
6 online or a hard copy that appendix is where you
7 would find this information.
8 Capital work for operation and maintenance
9 besides the operation and maintenance of the
10 treatment plants and pump stations throughout the
11 District, we also anticipate inspecting 60,000
12 manholes, rehabilitating approximately 6,000
13 manholes, CCTV approximately 1600 miles of sewers,
14 cleaning 3800 miles of sewers and rehabilitating an
15 additional 360 miles of existing sewers.
16 How we pay for this will be up to the
17 ratepayers to decide. If you look on the right-hand
18 side where it says, "Option A, Voters Approve
19 Bonds," this is that combination of cash and debt I
20 explained earlier.
21 Again, MSD is going to request the ratepayers
22 consider authorizing an additional $900 million of
23 bonding authority for the District. With that, we
24 will then start $1.5 billion worth of capital work
25 as required by our agreement with the Department of
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1 Justice and the EPA.
2 You see the average single-family wastewater
3 sewer bill is underneath. Fiscal Year 16 that bill
4 is just over $40 a month for the average property
5 owner -- for the average ratepayer. It goes up
6 about 10 percent per year over the next four years
7 stopping at just over $60 per month in 2020 for the
8 average ratepayer.
9 Where that puts us nationally. Based on a
10 national survey -- survey by the National
11 Association of Clean Water Agencies, municipalities
12 are charging anywhere between 15 and $135 a month
13 currently for wastewater service.
14 Left-hand side is assuming the voters reject
15 bonds. The voters will have the opportunity to
16 decide not to allow additional bonding authority,
17 therefore, there will be zero use of additional
18 bonds. We would still have to start $1.5 billion
19 worth of capital work as required by our Consent
20 Decree with the Department of Justice.
21 Here you see the average single-family water
22 bill -- wastewater bill. In 2016, again, $40.72.
23 You will see at Fiscal 17 it's the same at just over
24 $44. That's because we're using up the remaining
25 debt from the previous cycle but once we start using
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1 cash it ends in 2020 at the average monthly rate for
2 our ratepayer is about $96 per month for wastewater
3 service.
4 Stormwater. I'm going to spend some time
5 discussing how stormwater is currently funded. It's
6 important to understand that before we talk about
7 our proposal. If you take a look at this map,
8 again, the same map of District boundaries but it's
9 got three different colors on it. Let's talk about
10 that part of the District, the far outside part
11 shaded in red.
12 In that area, folks in that area pay us a 24
13 cent per month fee on the wastewater bill and about
14 a 2 cent property tax on their annual property tax
15 bill to pay for stormwater.
16 With that, we're able to fund and meet
17 federal, local, and state regulatory requirements
18 with regard to stormwater. That has to do with the
19 quality of stormwater coming off the new
20 developments, stormwater impact on local creeks and
21 streams with regard to water quality and pollutants.
22 We are able to collect data and track information in
23 that area about where the problems are and, finally,
24 we do have the ability to do emergency work if
25 necessary in that area.
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1 Emergency work in the past has consisted of
2 erosion that is ready to have a house drop into a
3 creek. We do have some monies if we need to address
4 those issues if they come up.
5 If you live in the yellow area, which is the
6 City of St. Louis and primarily the near North, West
7 and South County, in that area there's a 24 cent
8 fee, 2 cent property tax and also a 7 cent property
9 tax that's paid on your annual property tax bill.
10 All of the regulatory work that we do in the pink
11 area is taken care of. In addition, we're able to
12 maintain the public storm sewer system in the yellow
13 area.
14 What we are not able to do in the yellow or
15 pink area is any kind of stormwater projects to
16 resolve stormwater issues such as erosion or
17 flooding. There is no funding to address those
18 issues.
19 If you live in the green area, which is kind
20 of just outside the city and kind of inside 270,
21 those folks pay a 24 cent per month fee on their
22 wastewater bill for stormwater, 2 cent property tax,
23 7 cent property tax and depending on which of the 21
24 subdistricts you live in, in that green area, up to
25 another 10 cent property tax.
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1 If you live in that area we're taking care of
2 all the regulatory work, we're able to maintain the
3 public storm sewer system and we can also do
4 stormwater projects to resolve erosion and flooding
5 issues.
6 So, as you can see, the taxing revenue is
7 different in each area and that is reflective of the
8 amount of service we see throughout our District
9 boundaries.
10 What does that mean to folks as far as real
11 numbers? This is assuming a single-family home of
12 an appraised value of an average of $142,000
13 throughout the District boundaries. If you live in
14 the red area, getting just the regulatory service
15 and paying the 24 cent fee and 2 cent property tax,
16 the average taxpayer pays MSD $8 per year for
17 stormwater service mainly through the property tax
18 bill.
19 If you live in the yellow area you're getting
20 the regulatory work, plus we're able to maintain the
21 public sewer system. You are paying a 24 cent fee,
22 2 cent property tax and 7 cent property tax. The
23 average taxpayer in the District is paying MSD just
24 a little over $26 per year for stormwater service on
25 their property tax bill.
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1 If you live in the green area, now you're
2 getting all the services: regulatory, we maintain
3 the storm sewers and we can do stormwater projects.
4 You pay a 24 cent per month fee, 2 cent tax, 7 cent
5 property tax and up to another 10 cent property tax
6 for that service.
7 And for that service the average property
8 owner in the District on their annual property tax
9 bill pays us $53 per year for stormwater services.
10 That is the current way stormwater is funded and the
11 current service levels.
12 There is one main issue that MSD is looking
13 to address and what its proposal is, is to replace
14 many of these taxes with a 10 cent District-wide
15 property tax to resolve what we feel is the main
16 issue.
17 If you look at this map you will notice up
18 above -- back up -- up in the right-hand corner
19 that's the entire District boundaries as I
20 mentioned. You'll notice everybody paying the 2
21 cent property tax. With that, we're able to meet
22 all out of our regulatory requirements
23 District-wide, primarily having to do with
24 stormwater volume, increase in that, as well as
25 stormwater quality.
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1 It pays for our plan review and permitting
2 and inspection of new developments or any changes,
3 allows us to monitor and sample local creeks and
4 streams to determine impacts of stormwater on the
5 water quality of those creeks and streams. Again,
6 you're able to do complaint investigation and data
7 collection and we will respond to emergency
8 situations.
9 What work we perform in that area is
10 represented by this map. If you notice that gray
11 area is what were the yellow and green areas are on
12 the previous maps. So if you look at the areas
13 outside of that.
14 The blue lines you see there represent 1,154
15 miles of creeks. Those are the creeks that we have
16 to protect against increase in stormwater volume, as
17 well as impacts on stormwater quality from
18 pollutants that come with stormwater runoff.
19 Also on there are 2,638 best management
20 practices or stormwater basins. These are meant to
21 either assure that developments don't increase the
22 amount of flows or on new developments there is also
23 a requirement now that they treat the stormwater
24 that comes off the property or do things to decrease
25 the impact of the pollutants of stormwater runoff on
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1 the local creeks and streams. MSD is required to
2 permit and police those throughout this area. All
3 of that work is currently funded. That's what we
4 currently provide District-wide.
5 What is not funded in the red area is
6 represented here. All of the lines you see there
7 are public storm sewers. That's approximately 1,363
8 miles of the public storm sewer system or about half
9 of the storm sewer system that MSD owns. It's not
10 funded. There's no funding for operation and
11 maintenance. If an inlet gets cracked, we can't
12 replace it. If a storm sewer has a joint come apart
13 or a sinkhole is in somebody's backyard, we can't
14 fix the pipe because erosion in the creek where the
15 discharge is. There's nothing we can do to fix
16 those issues. It is sitting out there ours with no
17 funding source.
18 The other issue is -- now, I said that's half
19 of it but we obviously have the equivalent amount of
20 the storm sewer in the gray area. Those individuals
21 living in that red area are also not paying for the
22 service of us having to operate the storm sewer
23 system within our municipal boundaries.
24 If you drive anywhere in the District on a
25 roadway, that's not an interstate road, that road is
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1 being serviced by MSD's public storm sewer system.
2 Now, that is what sheds the water off the roads and
3 streets and takes it to local creeks and streams.
4 That's the issue we're looking to address, is that
5 lack of funding for that system.
6 So what we're proposing will result in
7 operating costs of approximately $90.8 million over
8 the next four years and will also allow us for the
9 first time to do approximately $100 million of
10 capital work District-wide for a six-year period
11 starting in 2015, this year, and ending in 2020.
12 The drivers, again, the big one is providing
13 a funding source to maintain the public storm sewer
14 system and also to, again, initiate the start of
15 some District-wide funding to resolve other
16 stormwater issues throughout the entire District.
17 I'll talk on the proposed operating costs
18 first. Fiscal Year 16, which is our current cycle,
19 you'll notice we're anticipating the operating cost
20 to the public sewer system is $16 million. If we
21 get a good vote and we're able to maintain the
22 entire system, that goes up to about 22 to
23 $23 million a year or just under a 50 percent
24 increase and that 50 percent increase allows us to
25 operate and maintain a doubling of the system we
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1 currently have.
2 There is some economy of scale, so the
3 operation and maintenance doesn't double, but it
4 does go up because we're maintaining a much larger
5 system.
6 It also allows for projects. This map is
7 similar to the one I showed you. As a matter of
8 fact, it's duplicated over here. Each one of those
9 circles has a number and on the spreadsheet you can
10 see the particulars of each one of those projects
11 with regard to what we're addressing, what we'll do
12 and how much it will cost.
13 I want to talk about those projects in these
14 areas that you see. In the green area there's 64
15 projects identified for about $25 million. Whether
16 the tax is instituted or not, most of that work will
17 still move forward. It's coming out of the special
18 tax that's paid in the green area. Not all of it
19 though. If the tax is not passed, there is a small
20 amount of that revenues that come from the green
21 area that are put towards O&M but basically those
22 projects will go whether or not we pass the
23 District-wide tax intiative.
24 In the yellow area we have identified 47
25 projects totaling about $17.5 million.
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1 Approximately half of the value of those projects
2 are in the City of St. Louis, the other half in the
3 near North, West and South County.
4 In the yellow area these projects come if a
5 District-wide property tax comes. This clears up an
6 accounting issue we have with what taxes we're
7 currently collecting and what restrictions are on
8 those taxes that we currently collect. We need to
9 still spend the money in the area we collected,
10 however, it loosens up what we can spend money on.
11 So if we had a District-wide tax to take care
12 of O&M District-wide this allows us to divert that
13 value of money to projects in the yellow area. It
14 never had projects before. We would be addressing
15 flooding and erosion issues in that part of the
16 District.
17 In the red area we've identified 59 projects
18 valued at about $7.5 million. The monies for those
19 projects come from the 10 cent tax. We're proposing
20 a 10 cent tax on Year 1. Just under 9 cents of that
21 goes towards operation and maintenance. We will
22 propose to the voters that if there's any part of
23 that 10 cent tax that isn't available for
24 operation -- needed for operation and maintenance
25 the remainder will be used for stormwater projects
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1 located throughout the District.
2 We prioritize stormwater projects on a
3 cost-benefit analysis. The value of the problem
4 divided by the cost and the ones with the highest
5 numbers go first. With the work we've done in the
6 past and the projects that you see in the yellow and
7 green area, all the extra money in the red area for
8 those four years will be spent in the red area
9 because those projects have the highest priority
10 calculation.
11 So what happens to all the taxes? There's a
12 chart to explain that. First line, if you live in
13 the green area you're paying somewhere between a 5
14 to 10 cent extra property tax. MSD will set that
15 tax at zero moving forward.
16 The stormwater O&M tax, which is a 7 cent tax
17 that's taxed both in the green and yellow area, the
18 proposed 10 cent property tax will replace that tax
19 and it would go away. There is a District-wide, as
20 I discussed, 2 cent tax that takes care of
21 regulatory issues. Right now that tax is almost
22 equivalent to the cost to do our regulatory work.
23 We're not looking for any change in that taxing
24 rate.
25 And then, finally, we're looking to replace
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1 those with a District-wide 10 cent property tax.
2 Also, the 24 cent per month charge to wastewater
3 customers for stormwater, that is also replaced by
4 the 10 cent property tax.
5 What does this mean for individual property
6 owners? We've got each one of the colored areas on
7 the map to give an idea of that for stormwater. If
8 you live in the green area you currently are paying
9 the 24 cent fee, 2 cent, 7 cent and 10 cent property
10 tax. In the green area the average appraised value
11 of property is $184,500. Right now folks in the
12 green area are paying us an average of $61.67 per
13 year mostly on their property tax bill for those
14 services.
15 If this goes in place that tax will lower by
16 about $20 per year resulting in an amount paid on
17 the annual property tax bill of $42 per year for
18 services. That results in a change in the total
19 property tax bill of a decrease of one half or one
20 percent. MSD's taxes are a very small portion of
21 the property tax bill, therefore, it has a very
22 small impact on the overall property tax bill.
23 If you live in the yellow area you pay the 2
24 cent property tax and 7 cent property tax. The
25 average value of the properties in the yellow area
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1 is $70,800, so the average taxpayer in that area on
2 their property tax bill pays us annually $12.50 for
3 stormwater right now.
4 If the proposed 10 cent tax and replacement
5 of the other taxes goes through, that would go up by
6 $3.60 resulting in the average taxpayer paying us
7 $16.10 per year for stormwater service.
8 For the overall property tax bill that's an
9 increase for the average taxpayer of three-tenths of
10 one percent or approximately three dollars for every
11 thousand dollars of taxes that they pay.
12 Finally, in the red area, where there's
13 basically very little service and very little
14 revenue being generated, right now primarily the 2
15 cent property tax is paid with an average property
16 value in the red area of $266,700. Folks in that --
17 the average taxpayer in that area is currently
18 paying us about $10.50 per year for stormwater
19 service.
20 The 10 cent tax goes in, that will increase
21 the average property tax bill by $50 per year
22 resulting in an average annual property tax bill of
23 $60 per year to MSD. That would be a change in the
24 total property tax in that area of an increase of
25 1.2 percent.
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1 What I would like to do now is combine all
2 those costs and give you some annual costs for
3 services for the changes. We're on Slide 30. There
4 we go. The same charges you saw before, on the
5 left-hand side is assuming there's bonding
6 authority. The right-hand side assumes voters do
7 not authorize additional bonding authority.
8 On the left-hand side of Fiscal 16, prior to
9 this Rate Proposal going into effect, the average
10 customer pays MSD $522 per year for all of the
11 services that MSD provides.
12 With the increases of both stormwater and
13 wastewater our average customer in Fiscal Year 20
14 will pay $770 per year for all of the services that
15 MSD provides.
16 There's also a possibility on the right-hand
17 side that the ratepayers decide they don't want to
18 authorize additional bonding authority. If they do,
19 again, the current cost annually is about $522 per
20 year for the average customer. If no bonds are
21 authorized and most of the capital program is paid
22 for with cash by 2020 that would raise the average
23 annual cost for the average property owner to $1200
24 per year for all the services that MSD provides.
25 The next slide is just a note that we do have
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1 a low income or customer assistance program.
2 Essentially if you qualify for that you pay one half
3 of the wastewater rate for low income. So if you
4 were to compare this chart it's identical to the
5 previous one but you'll find that all of the annual
6 costs are just about one half for our low income
7 customers.
8 Can everybody still hear with what's going
9 on? Am I still loud enough? Okay.
10 What will the rate process look like? As
11 previously noted, MSD staff submitted a Rate
12 Proposal to the Rate Commission on February 26th,
13 2015. On July 1, as part of the last Rate Proposal,
14 we will raise rates, wastewater rates, for the final
15 time as approved to get us those numbers you saw in
16 Fiscal 2016.
17 The Rate Commission will review our
18 recommendation and make their recommendations to our
19 Board of Trustees on August 2015. Our Board of
20 Trustees are currently scheduled to consider the
21 Rate Commission's recommendations between October
22 and December of 2015.
23 I noted previously that we are going to open
24 up the floor for comments. If you want to give them
25 here, great, if not, there's an email address, as
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1 well as a mailing address. And if you have any
2 comments outside of this forum that you would like
3 to get to the Rate Commission you can give those to
4 us. We'll make sure that all public comments go to
5 the Rate Commission.
6 When does the decision time come for our rate
7 and taxpayers? There's two things we will bring to
8 you in 2016 during one of the election cycles. We
9 don't know what date they're going to be or if
10 they'll be on the same date but there will be two
11 items.
12 First of all, wastewater. The MSD -- the
13 customers will be asked whether or not you want to
14 authorize MSD an additional $900 million worth of
15 bonding authority. If you say yes, that rate
16 schedule that you saw for the next four years that
17 started at about $40 and in 2020 ended at about $60
18 per month, that would be the rate schedule for the
19 next four years.
20 If the voters decide not to authorize MSD
21 additional bonding authority, again, we will start
22 at about $40. If you recall the right-hand column
23 on a couple of slides it went up to about $96 per
24 month in 2020. That will be what the folks will
25 have to pay for, for wastewater.
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1 It is a decision about whether to borrow or
2 not. If you borrow and keep rates a little bit
3 lower, every dollar you borrow you do eventually
4 have to pay two dollars back and that will be
5 reflected in future rates. However, if you don't
6 want to do bonding you will have to absorb initially
7 higher rates and then later on down the line in
8 future years there is the opportunity to lower your
9 rates more than if you go through the bonding
10 scenario.
11 The capital program will peak around 2023 or
12 2024 and those opportunities will be looked at as we
13 get towards that time frame.
14 The other thing that will be asked of the
15 ratepayers is whether or not they will approve a 10
16 cent District-wide property tax for operation and
17 maintenance of the public sewer system. If the
18 voters vote yes, we will have that program that I
19 showed you here at the end where we have services
20 District-wide and projects District-wide.
21 If the voters vote no, MSD will maintain the
22 current system where you pay different amounts
23 depending on where you live at in the District
24 boundaries and you receive different levels of
25 services. Those will be up to the ratepayers.
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1 As those voting dates come up MSD will
2 provide informational meetings District-wide so
3 folks can understand if you vote yes on a certain
4 proposition, this is the results, if you vote no,
5 this is the results. We're trying to make sure
6 everybody is educated to understand what it is we're
7 asking.
8 I would let you know there's two flyers here.
9 I'll point out real quick one is called "MSD Rate
10 Commission." I think everybody has got a copy of
11 this, correct? Was this handed out? This is just a
12 summation of where the public hearings are. If
13 you're interested in the Rate Commission roster,
14 what organizations are represented, that's in that
15 blue bar on the right-hand side.
16 The other one is entitled "2015 MSD Rate
17 Proposal." One side is a summation of the
18 wastewater proposal I described. The other side is
19 a summation of the stormwater proposal that I just
20 described.
21 And, with that, the Rate Commission would
22 like to open the floor for public comment regarding
23 our proposal.
24 MR. HAWES: And, a quick procedural
25 item, I want the record to reflect that Mr. John L.
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1 Stein, who is a Rate Commissioner, is in attendance
2 tonight.
3 And we will open for public comment with
4 Richard Bose. Name and address, please.
5 MR. BOSE: 5825 De Giverville. In the
6 yellow area.
7 MR. HAWES: And what's that last name
8 again?
9 MR. BOSE: Bose.
10 MR. HAWES: It is Bose.
11 MR. BOSE: Yeah.
12 MR. HAWES: Okay. Thank you.
13 MR. BOSE: So I guess I just have some
14 questions and concerns. Did I hear right that for
15 the bonding, I guess it all depends on the interest
16 rates, but in the end we would end up paying twice
17 over the whole lifetime just like on your mortgage,
18 right?
19 MR. HOELSCHER: These are generalized
20 but based on the rates we've seen and what we've
21 anticipated, it's about a two-to-one ratio.
22 MR. BOSE: Okay. And I guess my bigger
23 concern is about the stormwater property tax. I
24 think in other places don't they typically do like
25 an impervious surface tax or something like that,
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1 wouldn't that be more commensurate with the amount
2 of stormwater properties are producing?
3 It bothers me that, you know, a big building
4 here in Clayton is going to pay way more of this tax
5 than, you know, a big box retailer with a larger
6 parking lot and a large one-story building and it
7 seems like one is going to produce a lot more
8 stormwater than some of our higher-valued properties
9 that take up less land.
10 So I'm with you that we need stormwater
11 improvements and that needs funds but I'm concerned
12 that we're taxing the wrong thing.
13 MR. HAWES: Thank you very much. The
14 next speaker is Sarah Harris.
15 MS. HARRIS: Hi, everyone. I'm just
16 here listening and learning. I actually have no
17 specific questions but I appreciate the information
18 being made available.
19 MR. HAWES: Thank you for attending.
20 Next is Stan Mulvihill.
21 MR. MULVIHILL: Hi. Again, I'm here
22 just to listen and I obviously have been paying
23 attention for some time to the stormwater issues in
24 particular. One of the questions I have, it's
25 really a question so I'm not sure if it's
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1 appropriate to ask, in your consideration of the
2 calculation between how much bond authority that we
3 seek versus pay as you go, what was the balance that
4 you're looking for?
5 It looks like it's roughly two-thirds to
6 one-third or maybe I've got that a little bit wrong
7 but I saw about a billion and a half total capital
8 improvements that were paid for, roughly one billion
9 by the bond, by the new bond authority, and the
10 balance paid by the pay-as-you-go system.
11 Is that based on an assessment of how to
12 balance the ratepayer concerns here? I know that
13 the other alternative is to pay as you go and you
14 pay quite a bit more, so that's really just more of
15 a question, how you arrived at that balance.
16 MR. HOELSCHER: Do you want me to
17 answer?
18 MR. HAWES: Please.
19 MR. HOELSCHER: I can answer it in
20 general. I think a lot of the information is in the
21 Rate Proposal if you want to look. We have a
22 policy -- is it 75/25?
23 MSD STAFF MEMBER: Around 70/30.
24 MR. HOELSCHER: 70/30?
25 MSD STAFF MEMBER: Approximately.
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: The current goal is to
2 try and maintain 70 percent debt, 30 percent cash as
3 we move forward. As we approach the peak of the
4 program, as I mentioned in '23 or '24, if you look
5 in the Rate Proposal you'll see we even showed a
6 sample of what that bonding might look like in the
7 next four-year cycle, '21 to '24, to get over the
8 hump.
9 So it's a combination of that, trying to
10 maintain that, as well as looking at affordability
11 for the ratepayer and then also trying to maintain
12 our bond rating for the bonds we do sell. So
13 there's a lot more that goes into it but those are
14 three of the major things we look at.
15 MR. MULVIHILL: Thank you.
16 MR. HAWES: All right. Next, Fred
17 Brooks.
18 MR. BROOKS: So I have several
19 questions. Let's see, I understand that you want
20 more money. Great, I'm not opposed to paying for
21 services I receive. I am very opposed, I think,
22 based on what your answers are going to be, to the
23 methodology you're using to collect those increases.
24 So my one question is: Will the stormwater
25 increases be billed to all properties in St. Louis
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1 County that have assessed value or only the
2 tax-paying properties?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: Right now MSD's proposal
4 is to go only to tax-paying properties. It would
5 not be charged to non-tax-paying properties.
6 MR. BROOKS: Okay. So I, personally,
7 have a big problem with that. I think there's legal
8 precedent, that constitutionally, you know, we don't
9 lump church and state together.
10 MR. HOELSCHER: I think you will find
11 and I think this is described in the proposal, a lot
12 of MSD's proposal is driven by the decision by the
13 Supreme Court in November 2012 that overturned an
14 impervious rate we had previously imposed and --
15 MR. BROOKS: Well, and I'm not --
16 MR. HOELSCHER: Let me finish. This is
17 our thought process. Based on what we see there, it
18 is highly questionable whether non-tax-paying
19 properties could be charged the voted-on fee. Now,
20 whether that's right or wrong, that is the opinion
21 of MSD's staff. There are other ways to do this, I
22 agree. That is driving what MSD staff is proposing
23 right now.
24 MR. BROOKS: I think if you Google other
25 municipalities across the United States they use a
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1 system based on impervious surface area. I thought
2 that the reason your approach was overturned was
3 that you didn't put it to a vote.
4 MR. HOELSCHER: Correct.
5 MR. BROOKS: So you could put that same
6 system to a vote and get it approved and everybody
7 would pay their fair share.
8 MR. HOELSCHER: I would just offer to
9 you Kansas City, Missouri has a voted-on fee similar
10 to what you're describing. Since that Missouri
11 court ruling they're allowing non-tax-paying
12 entities to opt out of paying. They're asking that
13 they consider paying voluntarily but they don't feel
14 that they have a right to force the collection on
15 non-tax-paying properties for a voted-on fee.
16 MR. BROOKS: Well, that disappoints me
17 because, you know, my properties have a lot of green
18 space. I contribute very little to the wastewater
19 problem, yet other properties like churches,
20 non-profits or even shopping malls, contribute a
21 great deal because they're mostly hard surface and
22 they have parking lots and so forth.
23 I'm not against paying more for my fair share
24 but if I went to the license bureau and said, "Hey,
25 I need a license plate," and a priest was next to me
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1 and said, "I need a license plate for my school
2 bus," and the guy reached into my pocket to pay for
3 his bill, I would be kind of pissed off and that's
4 exactly the same scenario in my opinion.
5 And the other problem I have with the way the
6 rates are going to be collected is linking the
7 amount of money that you have to something that
8 could go up or down so much like property values.
9 And it seems to me that you're going to have set
10 costs that will probably only increase and yet
11 property values could go up, could go down.
12 I mean, you create a huge administrative
13 burden of trying to guess whether you're going to
14 really collect enough money because that 10 cents on
15 $200,000 might be 10 cents on $150,000 the next year
16 or more, it'll probably go up, but it seems a very
17 uncertain way of financing your improvements. I
18 think you need to assess what people contribute to
19 the problem and bill them accordingly.
20 MR. HAWES: All right. That's all we
21 have that have signed up. Is there anybody else
22 that would like to speak at this proceeding?
23 Hearing no further discussion, any thoughts
24 from the Rate Commissioners? All right. Oh, we've
25 got one hand up.
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1 MS. HARRIS: May I ask a question?
2 MR. HAWES: Please.
3 MS. HARRIS: I hear the proposal that
4 MSD has put forth here and just a few comments that
5 people are making and then even just in my own mind
6 I'm thinking of alternative approaches that could be
7 considered as the way to go about financing funding
8 all the improvements that are clearly needed.
9 What other alternative approaches have you
10 all considered or what is the process? And I
11 apologize if I missed it, after getting public input
12 will that shape the proposed recommendations or no,
13 what happens?
14 MR. HAWES: If I can answer that. Part
15 of the task, part of the job we're tasked with at
16 the Rate Commission is to review the methodology for
17 the appropriateness and for meeting the Charter of
18 MSD, as it was written, which was to provide for the
19 consumers, to provide efficient and equitable
20 operations and so forth.
21 So we're going to be reviewing those aspects,
22 so we do take into account the questions and the
23 statements from the public regarding the methodology
24 such as should we consider an impervious fee rather
25 than the methodology that's proposed in the Rate
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1 Proposal. So those are all on the table.
2 So part of our review is to consider if there
3 may be a better way, a more equitable way. That's
4 what our task is. Anybody like to add to that?
5 MR. SCHNEIDER: Well, I will just add
6 that on the MSD website you will see all the
7 proceedings. The Rate Commission has hired an
8 independent consultant to evaluate the Rate Proposal
9 that MSD made. We hired an independent law firm to
10 evaluate the case. We take testimony from the MSD
11 staff. We take testimony from the expert consultant
12 that we hire. The two intervenors that were
13 mentioned, the Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers
14 represents the large businesses. They are involved
15 in the proceedings. They take testimony and they
16 provide their own recommendations. The Home
17 Builders Association provides a recommendation.
18 That's all on the website of the Rate Commission.
19 So we take the public hearing notes and we
20 kind of all evaluate that. And, as Russell said, we
21 kind of evaluate on five criteria which are listed.
22 One of them which is: Is this proposal fair and
23 reasonable amongst all taxpayers? Does it enhance
24 MSD's ability to meet their obligations to provide
25 stormwater and wastewater appropriately? Does it
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1 meet the constitutional requirements, which gets
2 into the Hancock amendment which Mr. Hoelscher was
3 kind of referring to with the impervious surface
4 fee. And there's two other ones I knew I was going
5 to forget. But they're on the website but mostly
6 it's can they do an adequate job.
7 So it's all on the website and I know it's a
8 lot of documents on there but if you can kind of
9 follow a little bit and this whole Rate Proposal,
10 again, is on the MSD website.
11 MS. HARRIS: Okay.
12 MR. HAWES: All right.
13 MR. MULVIHILL: If it's appropriate to
14 ask a question of Brian, referring back to Slide 19,
15 this is more just kind of history I guess, it's the
16 one in which you have public storm system in the red
17 area, which is roughly west of the 270 outerbelt and
18 there's approximately 1300 miles of storm sewers
19 that aren't currently funded. Can you just explain
20 historically why that situation exists?
21 MR. HOELSCHER: There's a certain Rate
22 Commissioner who has asked me to explain it. It is
23 an interesting story and I'll make it short. I
24 would actually go to -- give me a yellow, red, green
25 map, Shaun, back up to one of those. Any of them is
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1 fine.
2 So we'll talk about stormwater and look at
3 the yellow, red and green map. The boundaries that
4 are within the yellow and green areas were the
5 District's original boundaries in 1954. So all
6 services were provided then. As a matter of fact,
7 the services were provided by a board-assessed tax
8 to provide all services in that original boundary.
9 Between then and 1977 separate taxing
10 Districts, and right now there's actually 21 of them
11 in the green part of that area, were put in place
12 and extra taxes were collected mostly to pay for
13 stormwater improvement, sometimes it could be for
14 stormwater and wastewater but they were put into
15 place to provide an extra tax base to expand the
16 system and to promote growth throughout the area.
17 So that's the area.
18 In 1977 there was a vote based on a petition.
19 There was a vote by the folks in the red area to be
20 annexed into the District. The District does not go
21 out and try to gain area. It accepted petitions to
22 size whether or not they could efficiently serve the
23 area and then allow folks to vote if they want to
24 come in.
25 So in 1977 folks in the red area decided to
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1 do that. They decided -- at the time it was only
2 for wastewater services in that red area in 1977.
3 Prior to that and after that all stormwater services
4 were provided by St. Louis County.
5 In 1989 MSD put in place and took over the
6 operation and maintenance of the stormwater sewers
7 and stormwater management in the area. There were
8 two things that were proposed around 1989. One was
9 this 24 cent per month fee that you're still paying
10 for stormwater if you're a wastewater customer.
11 That was voted and put in place in 1988 by the
12 voters of the District.
13 The other part was the District was planning
14 on instituting an impervious area system of
15 collecting stormwater revenues throughout the entire
16 District and would cover that red area as well.
17 There was never any action taken on that. It was
18 thought about and if you go back and look at the
19 records you will find six board meetings later they
20 decided to drop it, that it would be addressed at a
21 later time.
22 So as of 1989 you have the situation where
23 there is a stormwater system with no revenue to do
24 anything. To do anything. And right now the
25 revenues we do collect just pay for regulatory work
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Page 50
1 and there's nothing else. MSD has looked to try
2 that and the other issues to try and correct it.
3 We were in litigation under our wastewater
4 rates until the mid-1990s. Once that was resolved
5 we went to try to resolve the stormwater issue that
6 resulted in the creation of the Rate Commission and
7 a lot of other things, an attempt to institute an
8 impervious rate that was in place for about eight
9 months I think before somebody sued us over it. It
10 went back to the current taxes, we lost in the
11 Missouri Supreme Court and so we're still now where
12 we were at about 1977 -- or 1989. And so that's the
13 history of how everything came up.
14 I've been asked, "Why is this here?" Well,
15 there was the original District boundaries in the
16 yellow and green area and those little green areas
17 are areas based on watersheds that were picked up to
18 fund specific pieces. If you didn't happen to fall
19 on one of those watersheds, you didn't pay the
20 watershed tax.
21 Then in 1980 when the Hancock Amendment went
22 in place the board no longer had the ability to just
23 simply institute taxes and the only thing we've
24 voted on since 1980 is the 24 cent monthly charge.
25 So that's kind of the history of why we are where we
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1 are now.
2 MR. MULVIHILL: I mean, I think, just as
3 a general comment, it sort of mirrors a lot of the
4 postwar development patterns of a sort of parochial
5 incremental approach to dealing with what appears to
6 be a much larger District area problem. So it's
7 just interesting to hear the history of it in that
8 context.
9 MR. BROOKS: I'll just add I think it's
10 great that you're trying to unify the District and
11 have a uniform rate structure that everybody pays
12 their fair share but you need some kind of
13 scientific process to assess that. You know, I
14 don't pay for a sidewalk based on how expensive my
15 shoes are. I shouldn't pay for sewers based on how
16 expense my house is.
17 If I have a lot of frontage, street frontage,
18 that might be a measurement. Big driveway, big
19 roof, that might be a measurement. If I'm in a
20 floodplain, that might be a different rate
21 structure. But just because I'm smart enough or
22 lucky enough or hard working enough to have a nice
23 house that gets taxed higher, or it may be lower,
24 doesn't mean I should pay more for my sewer. It's a
25 service.
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: I think as the Rate
2 Commission said, that is something to think about.
3 I will put to you that MSD's thought process is that
4 this is an area-wide service similar to police,
5 fire, schools, something in that vein. And I think
6 it's in that line that MSD is offering that this --
7 that's the thought process in offering the proposal
8 we're offering.
9 MR. BROOKS: But the difference is if I
10 live in a different school district it is, quote,
11 better or worse, and, therefore, justifies the
12 different tax structure. So, you know, I pay higher
13 taxes in the Ladue School District than I might in
14 North County but I have the expectation that my
15 school district is better, has better facilities.
16 My sewer is probably about the same, hopefully.
17 MR. HOELSCHER: Unless you live out of
18 the District boundaries. Boundaries are all
19 different, I agree with you, depending on what
20 you're talking about.
21 MR. BOSE: Will this stormwater property
22 tax be able to be tipped away by cities and
23 counties? I know it's a big concern for school
24 Districts, do you all know?
25 MR. HOELSCHER: Our current taxes are
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Page 53
1 subject to that and obviously, if you charge
2 property tax, yeah, it will be subject to that.
3 MR. BOSE: Okay.
4 MR. HAWES: All right. We appreciate
5 you coming out tonight and have a good evening.
6 - - - - -
7 (Hearing concluded at 7:05 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2 I, Suzanne Zes, within and for the State
3 of Missouri, do hereby certify that the witness
4 whose testimony appears in the foregoing deposition
5 was duly sworn by me; the testimony of said witness
6 was taken by me to the best of my ability and
7 thereafter reduced to typewriting under my
8 direction; that I am neither counsel for, related
9 to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action
10 in which this deposition was taken, and further that
11 I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or
12 counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor
13 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome
14 of the action.
15
16 ______________________________
17 Certified Court Reporter
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collect 11:4 12:8
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costs 27:7,17
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cost-benefit 30:3
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court 3:6 4:21
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depending 22:23
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depends 38:15
deposition 54:4
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direction 9:5
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discharge 18:5
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divert 29:12
divided 30:4
document 10:3
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dollar 36:3
dollars 32:10,11
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dot 10:22,22
double 28:3
doubling 27:25
drains 11:6
drinks 9:6
drive 26:24
driven 10:2,8
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drivers 14:14
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driveway 51:18
driving 10:1
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earlier 12:16
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economy 28:2
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effect 33:9
efficiencies 13:14
efficient 45:19
efficiently 48:22
eight 50:8
either 9:22 14:25
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election 5:10
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emergency 21:24
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questions 9:21
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resolve 22:16
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32:6,22
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1900 14:7
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1988 49:11
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