HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 120 - Transcript of May 27, 2015 Public Hearing PUBLIC HEARING 5/27/2015
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8 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT
9 PUBLIC HEARING
10 MAY 27, 2015
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12 WILDWOOD CITY HALL
13 16860 MAIN STREET
14 WILDWOOD, MISSOURI
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17 (Hearing start time, 6:00 p.m.)
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1 I N D E X
2 PAGE
3 Introduction by Mr. Stein 5
4 Presentation by Mr. Hoelscher 9
5 Public Hearing Session
6 R. Osterhoff 38
7 T. Theerman 43
8 Larry Feuerstein 43
9 Paul Caster 53, 73
10 Sarah Griesedieck 67
11 Rick Pfarr 68
12 Jeannie Venard 71
13 D. Dunn 71
14 J. Hartwig 73
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17 INDEX
18 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION MARKED
19 Caster 1 Document and Letters 85
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23 (Exhibits were attached to the original transcript.)
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1 PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS
2 SEWER DISTRICT, produced and examined on May 27,
3 2015, between the hours of 6:00 in the evening and
4 7:35 in the evening of that day, at the Wildwood
5 City Hall, 16860 Main Street, Wildwood, Missouri,
6 before Suzanne M. Zes, a Certified Court Reporter of
7 the State of Missouri.
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1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2 For the MSD Rate Commission:
3 John L. Stein
Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers
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Lori A. Kelling
5 West St. Louis County Chamber of Commerce
6 Steve Mahfood
Missouri Coalition for the Environment
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Chan Mahanta
8 North County Incorporated
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10 Also Present:
11 Brian Hoelscher
Executive Director
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Lance LeComb
13 Manager of Public Information &
Spokesperson
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The Court Reporter:
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Suzanne Zes
22 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
711 North Eleventh Street
23 St. Louis, MO 63101
314.644.2191
24 314.644.1334 Fax
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 MR. STEIN: Good evening, I'm Jack
3 Stein, a member of the Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer
4 District Rate Commission and I will be presiding
5 over the public hearing this evening.
6 With me tonight are the following MSD Rate
7 Commission members: I have on my far right Mr. Chan
8 Mahanta and on my immediate right Ms. Lori Kelling.
9 The Charter Plan of the District was amended
10 at a general election on November 7th, 2000, and
11 established the Rate Commission to review and make
12 recommendations to the District regarding changes in
13 wastewater rates, stormwater rates and tax rates
14 proposed by the District.
15 The Charter Plan requires the MSD Board of
16 Trustees to select organizations to ensure a fair
17 representation of all users of the District's
18 services on the Rate Commission. The Rate
19 Commission representative organizations are to
20 represent commercial-industrial users, residential
21 users, and other organizations interested in the
22 operation of the District including organizations
23 focusing on environmental issues, labor issues,
24 socio-economic issues, community-neighborhood
25 organizations and other non-profit organizations.
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1 The MSD Rate Commission currently consists of 15
2 members from organizations and institutions
3 throughout St. Louis City and County.
4 On February 26th, 2015, the Rate Commission
5 received a Rate Change Notice proposing changes to
6 the District's wastewater rates and stormwater
7 revenues. The Rate Commission adopted Operational
8 Rules and a Procedural Schedule to govern the
9 proceedings on March 4th, 2015, and amended this
10 Procedural Schedule on May 20th, 2015.
11 Under the Procedural Schedule, as amended,
12 the MSD Rate Commission has until August 10, 2015,
13 to review and make a recommendation to the MSD Board
14 of Trustees as to whether the proposed rate should
15 be approved, not approved or modified with suggested
16 changes and then approved.
17 The MSD Rate Commission has engaged legal
18 counsel and a rate consultant independent of those
19 used by the MSD staff.
20 Under Procedural Rules adopted by the Rate
21 Commission, as amended, any person affected by the
22 Rate Change Proposal had an opportunity to submit an
23 application to intervene in these proceedings.
24 Applications to intervene have been filed by the
25 Home Builders Association of St. Louis and the
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1 Missouri Industrial Energy Consumers. These
2 applications have been granted.
3 Since February 26, 2015, the MSD Rate
4 Commission has received testimony from MSD staff.
5 The parties have also engaged in discovery requests.
6 Additional testimony from the Intervenors and the
7 Rate Consultant will be filed.
8 Technical conferences were held on
9 April 8th and May 20th, 2015, and are planned for
10 June 17th, 2015, where the participants and the Rate
11 Commission are given an opportunity to ask questions
12 of those submitting testimony.
13 A Prehearing Conference for the purpose of
14 identifying any issues raised by the Rate Setting
15 Documents and the prepared testimony previously
16 submitted will be conducted on the record on
17 June 26, 2015.
18 All persons submitting testimony may
19 participate in the Prehearing Conference and each
20 participant in the Prehearing Conference shall
21 submit a Prehearing Conference Report describing the
22 issues raised by the Rate Setting Documents and the
23 prepared testimony, together with a brief
24 description of such participant's position, if any,
25 and the rationale therefor.
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1 Ratepayers who do not wish to intervene are
2 permitted to participate in these on-the-record
3 public hearings conducted in ten sessions, which
4 began on May the 11th, 2015 and concluding on
5 July 10, 2015.
6 The Rate Commission published a Public Notice
7 regarding these proceedings in the St. Louis
8 Post-Dispatch and in the St. Louis American. These
9 Notices contained the time, dates and location of
10 each of the conferences and hearings.
11 The Public Hearing Session tonight is for the
12 purpose of permitting the District to present its
13 Wastewater and Stormwater Rate Change Proposal, and
14 to permit any ratepayer an opportunity to comment.
15 We will begin with a presentation by the District
16 followed by a public comment period.
17 Those wishing to speak should sign in on the
18 sheet provided and will be called on in the order of
19 the names listed thereon. Each ratepayer should
20 identify themselves and any organizations
21 represented by such ratepayer.
22 And let me just stop right now and introduce
23 Mr. Steve Mahfood, who is also a member of the Rate
24 Commission.
25 Several housekeeping rules before we begin
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1 are:
2 If you wish to present testimony please sign
3 in on the clipboard by the entrance. Speakers will
4 be recognized in the order in which they sign up.
5 Each ratepayer may have a maximum of ten
6 minutes to speak regarding the proposed rate change.
7 As the presiding officer, I can limit or expand the
8 time, should I deem it necessary.
9 Restrooms are located by the stairway as you
10 came in.
11 And I would just say are there any questions
12 regarding the procedure for this evening?
13 Mr. Hoelscher, is the District ready to
14 proceed?
15 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, sir, we are,
16 Mr. Stein.
17 MR. STEIN: The floor is yours.
18 MR. HOELSCHER: Can everybody hear me
19 from here? I would think so. Okay. I'm going to
20 do it from here then.
21 Tonight's presentation is an overview of the
22 proposal submitted to MSD's Rate Commission on
23 February 26, 2015. At the end of the presentation
24 the Rate Commission will open the floor for public
25 comments. Also, after the entire proceedings are
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1 done and they're closed, MSD has additional staff
2 here so if you have questions or comments regarding
3 other topics or other issues with MSD, we have folks
4 who can either answer your question or can take your
5 information and make sure we get back to you.
6 Quick introduction as to what's kind of
7 driving MSD's costs. We'll go over the wastewater
8 proposal. On that side, what is driving our program
9 is the Consent Decree that MSD signed with the
10 Department of Justice to address issues in the
11 wastewater system and a schedule in which to address
12 those. That's what is driving the Wastewater Rate
13 Proposal.
14 On the stormwater side, we'll go over the
15 existing taxing system. You're going to find that
16 throughout the District folks are taxed different
17 amounts of money and are receiving different levels
18 of services. Our proposal is to put in front of the
19 voters the opportunity to collect a District-wide
20 tax that would provide an equal level of service for
21 all of MSD's stormwater customers.
22 This presentation is a summation of the Rate
23 Proposal. We do have two copies of the full
24 proposal here. If you went on our website you can
25 find the full proposal if you wish to look at it.
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1 As we go through the presentation if you see any
2 references to appendices or sections at the bottom
3 of the slide, those are references to specific parts
4 of the Rate Proposal, which obviously you're free to
5 view anytime you wish.
6 The thing to remember is MSD is two
7 utilities. For those folks who receive wastewater
8 service from MSD we collect and treat used water
9 that goes down sinks, toilets, floor drains, washing
10 machines, showers. Those flows go into sanitary
11 pipes. They flow several miles to one of our seven
12 treatment plants. Those flows are treated and
13 discharged, per our permits, and they are discharged
14 in the Missouri, Mississippi or Meramec River.
15 That service is currently funded by a monthly
16 bill that everybody gets from MSD if you're a
17 wastewater customer and that bill is based on your
18 potable water usage during the winter months. The
19 idea being that a measure at that time is reflective
20 of what's actually going down the drain and doesn't
21 account for things such as watering lawns or washing
22 cars or filling swimming pools up. So it's a good
23 measure of what goes down the drain.
24 MSD is also is a stormwater utility.
25 Throughout its municipal boundaries any rain that
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1 hits the ground and soaks in or goes to local creeks
2 and streams are great but there are areas where that
3 is insufficient and we have a series of public storm
4 sewer systems that will convey that water. It can
5 be inlets, manholes, stormwater sewers, paved
6 channels that will convey some of those flows and
7 convey them back into the same creeks and streams as
8 though -- just as it would occur naturally if there
9 was no development in the area.
10 MSD is also responsible for the pollutants
11 that are in stormwater runoff that affect the creeks
12 and streams throughout our entire boundaries.
13 Again, wastewater -- stormwater runoff that pulls
14 pollutants off streets, yards, animal waste, those
15 types of things.
16 That stormwater service, there's a small fee
17 for wastewater customers. Most of our revenue for
18 stormwater is on folks' property taxes. So on your
19 annual property tax bill most of the MSD stormwater
20 revenue comes from those annual property taxes.
21 Quick recap on the Rate Commission. Again,
22 it was established in 2000 to provide public input
23 on how MSD sets its rates. There are 15
24 organizations that represent a broad cross-section
25 of MSD -- of the community that MSD serves.
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1 The purpose of the Rate Commission is to
2 review the Rate Proposal by MSD staff, compare it
3 against five standards that our in our Charter and
4 make a recommendation to our board. Our Board of
5 Trustees will then also do a review of the same kind
6 with the Rate Commission's recommendations, compare
7 it against those five factors and make a ruling as
8 to how MSD is supposed to proceed with the proposed
9 rates.
10 The Rate Proposal we're proposing is covering
11 the period for this session from July 1, 2016
12 through June 30th, 2020. Any rates collected prior
13 to July 1, 2016 were already approved in a previous
14 rating hearing.
15 Current wastewater rates. The current rate
16 structure that we're under right now runs from 2013
17 to June 30th, 2016. Under that Proposal MSD
18 proposed to start $971 million in capital work for
19 those four years.
20 Right now MSD is projecting it will start
21 approximately $890 million of capital work during
22 that four-year period. That's less than what we had
23 originally planned, however, the news is good. We
24 are on schedule. We are on budget.
25 And those reductions are the result of
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1 savings, a lot of it having to do with some very
2 good prices we get from our contractors, some of it
3 through cost saving measures that occur during the
4 engineering of the program.
5 Any of the money that wasn't spent gets sent
6 into this next rate cycle and is available as a
7 starting balance for any future capital work.
8 For operation and maintenance, again, we are
9 also on time and under budget. Operation and
10 maintenance activities are also required by the
11 Consent Decree. We had projected $716 million in
12 expenditures through June 30, 2016. We are
13 projecting that we will hit at $700 million or
14 $16 million below the budget.
15 Besides the operation and maintenance of
16 treatment plants and pump stations throughout the
17 District, the work includes inspection of 62,000
18 manholes, rehabilitation of approximately 6600
19 manholes, inspection of 1900 miles of sewers.
20 And based on an evaluation near the airport
21 of two successive storms that happened years apart
22 but looked very identical in distribution and rates,
23 we're estimating that the work to date has resulted
24 in a two-thirds or 66 percent reduction in overflow
25 volumes and basement backups with the work we've
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1 completed to date.
2 So what MSD is proposing. MSD's program, if
3 you've heard it, it's MSD Project Clear. It's a
4 program we're putting out to meet regulatory
5 requirements. The first and most important portion
6 of that is get the rain out. Understand that the
7 program we're proposing the problem is stormwater
8 that's entering the wastewater system. That is the
9 issue.
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Entering the
11 wastewater?
12 MR. HOELSCHER: Stormwater entering the
13 wastewater system.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
15 MR. HOELSCHER: On a day like today,
16 unless somebody flushes grease down the wastewater
17 system or if a pipe collapses, all the wastewater
18 goes down everybody's drain, goes into the sewers,
19 goes to the treatment plant, gets treated and
20 properly discharged into the Missouri, Mississippi
21 or Meramec River. There are no overflows.
22 The problem is when we have rains.
23 Stormwater can get into the system that's not
24 supposed to and would cause the system to surcharge
25 and cause overflows in the system that's either out
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1 to the environment or individual basements.
2 Cheapest way to resolve that issue is to keep
3 the stormwater from entering the system at the
4 start. That is the cheapest way. You will find a
5 big part of the program is related to that. Doing
6 that, as opposed to making the system bigger, is
7 four to five times less expensive than actually
8 expanding the system to accept and treat all that
9 flow.
10 There's also repair and maintenance to the
11 system to make sure the system will continue
12 functioning for a long time and there are some
13 system improvements that we will have to build as
14 well. MSD is looking to do this in a financially
15 responsible manner and maintain our financial
16 stability. Currently MSD has a AAA bond from S&P
17 and from Fitch and Moody's a AA1 and a AA plus bond
18 rating.
19 The standard throughout the industry,
20 throughout the country, is to maintain a AA bond
21 rating. So MSD has got a long-term financing plan
22 based on the parameters as we currently understand
23 them that will -- is attempting to ensure that MSD's
24 bond rating never goes below a AA bond rating and
25 thus allows us to borrow money at a very competitive
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1 rate.
2 For the program for those four years, the
3 capital program, we're looking to start $1.5 billion
4 worth of capital work over that four-year period.
5 It's distributed through the four years as you see
6 on the chart, 2017 to 2020, totaling $1.5 billion.
7 We are proposing $736 million in operation
8 and maintenance costs and $477 million in total debt
9 service costs. That would be for bonds that have
10 previously been sold. MSD will also be asking the
11 ratepayers whether or not they wish to grant us
12 additional bonding authority. Assuming they do, we
13 have included that in this number and the total debt
14 service during that four-year period would be $477
15 million.
16 On the additional use of debt over the next
17 four years to pay for the $1.5 billion worth of
18 improvements we're looking to cash finance 415
19 million of that. That would be taking the
20 wastewater rates we receive on a monthly basis and
21 actually using that cash to pay for the
22 improvements. We're looking for the remainder to be
23 bond financed or $1.1 billion of borrowed money.
24 $200 million of that is left-over bonding authority
25 from the last rate cycle. 900 million would require
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1 additional authorization from the ratepayers. So,
2 again, assuming the ratepayers authorize an
3 additional $900 million in debt our total debt
4 authorization would go to $2.62 billion.
5 Remember 100 percent of the debt, 100 percent
6 of the money borrowed is spent on capital work. It
7 is not used for operating costs.
8 For that capital work we will start
9 approximately 600 projects, 230 of those which would
10 be construction projects, eliminate 39 sanitary
11 sewer overflows, and start the design of 24 miles of
12 storage and conveyance tunnels.
13 While we will try for the most part to keep
14 the stormwater from originally entering the system
15 there will be parts of the system where we will have
16 to intercept the overflows themselves. The way we
17 do that is capture those overflows, store them in
18 underground tunnels and caverns, wait until the
19 storm is over and then we feed those flows back into
20 the treatment plants so they don't get discharged
21 untreated.
22 This map is a map of where all the projects
23 will be. Each one of those blue dots is a project
24 over the next four years and if you have a
25 magnifying glass you can see there's a little number
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1 inside each one of those blue dots, a five-digit
2 number.
3 That relates to something -- in our Rate
4 Proposal there's a spreadsheet. Each one of those
5 numbers is a project. If you look on that
6 spreadsheet you'll find the problem we're resolving,
7 how we plan on fixing it, the cost, and the year we
8 plan on starting that project.
9 What we do have tonight is -- a reproduction
10 of that map is here along with the spreadsheet. So
11 this evening if you'd like to see what those
12 projects are and look on the spreadsheet you can see
13 the details here. You always have the option of
14 going on our website and taking a look at the
15 information that's actually in the Rate Proposal
16 itself.
17 Operation and maintenance. Again, in
18 addition to the operation and maintenance of the
19 treatment plants and pump stations throughout the
20 District we plan on inspecting 60,000 manholes,
21 rehabilitating 6,000 manholes, the inspection of
22 1600 miles of sewer with closed-circuit TV, cleaning
23 3800 miles of sewer and rehabilitation of 360 miles
24 of sewer.
25 The next chart are the two funding options
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1 and this will be up to the voters in MSD's municipal
2 boundaries to decide how they pay for this. On the
3 left-hand column you see something called "Voters
4 Approve Bonds, Option A." As I indicated before,
5 MSD will go in front of the voters and ask if they
6 wish to authorize an additional $900 million of
7 bonding authority. If they do, again, we would
8 start 1.5 billion of capital work over those four
9 years.
10 In the chart you see below is the average
11 single-family wastewater sewer bill. In our Fiscal
12 2016, which is the end of our current cycle, right
13 now the average customer will pay $40.72 per month
14 for wastewater service, if we provide a wastewater
15 service. That is projected to go up about
16 10 percent per month per year, so in 2020 the
17 average monthly bill is just under $61 per month for
18 wastewater service.
19 Where are we compared to the rest of the
20 country? If you take a look at 50 other cities that
21 are kind of in the situation that MSD is, they're
22 paying anywhere between from 15 and $135 a month for
23 wastewater service depending on the condition of the
24 system and where they're at with the Federal
25 Government.
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1 If you take a look on the right where it
2 says, "Voters Reject Bonds," this would be Option B.
3 Again, MSD will ask the ratepayers whether or not
4 they wish to authorize additional bonding. If they
5 do not, because of the Consent Decree with the
6 Federal Government, we will still have to start
7 $1.5 billion worth of capital work over that
8 four-year period.
9 And below you see what happens to the average
10 single-family wastewater bill. Again, $40.72 in
11 2016. 2017, under both scenarios is the same,
12 that's because initially we're using the remaining
13 bonding authority from the current cycle.
14 Ultimately the cost per month would go up to $96 per
15 month in 2020 for the average residential customer.
16 We'll discuss stormwater. First, we want to
17 talk about the current stormwater service and
18 funding. The map you see up here is a map of MSD's
19 municipal boundaries, our current service area. To
20 the right is the Mississippi River. To the north is
21 the Missouri River. To the south the Meramec River
22 wiggles in and out. And to the west MSD's
23 boundaries go out to about 109 here in Wildwood.
24 Services look -- things look different. So
25 if you live in the red area, right now you're paying
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1 a 24 cent per month fee if you pay wastewater.
2 You're also paying a 2 cent property tax to MSD for
3 stormwater services. Those monies allow us to meet
4 local, state, and federal regulatory compliance with
5 regard to stormwater, primarily having to do with
6 any increased volumes from development. We're able
7 to police those. We're also able to address any
8 pollutants that are in stormwater runoff that
9 impacts local creeks and streams. We police that.
10 We also monitor the creeks and streams for their
11 condition.
12 It allows us to collect data and track
13 information with regard to stormwater issues and it
14 does allow us to do emergency response if needed.
15 And by emergency response we mean if a creek is
16 eroding and somebody's house is ready to fall in the
17 creek we do have an emergency fund that we can
18 respond to that. That's what we mean by an
19 emergency.
20 If you live in yellow area, which is most of
21 the City of St. Louis and near North, West and South
22 Counties, you pay a 24 cent fee, same 2 cent
23 property tax and you also pay approximately another
24 7 cent property tax. We're able to take care of all
25 the regulatory issues in the yellow area and pretty
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1 well maintain the public storm sewer system.
2 What is not getting done is any kind of
3 stormwater projects to fix erosion or flooding.
4 Same as in the red area, there are no projects to
5 fix erosion or flooding. Double back here, in the
6 red area we are also not able to maintain the public
7 storm sewers that MSD owns. There are no funds to
8 maintain those.
9 If you go to the green area, if you live in
10 that area you pay a 24 cent fee, 2 cent property tax
11 to take cake of regulatory issues, 7 cent property
12 tax that pretty much takes care of operation and
13 maintenance of the public storm sewer system and up
14 to another 10 cent tax. That allows us to do
15 projects to address stormwater issues such as
16 flooding and erosion. That green area is the only
17 area right now that MSD has funding in order to do
18 those kind of projects.
19 What does that mean for the homeowners in
20 those areas in dollars? If you go to the next page,
21 if you're in the red area you're paying the 24 cent
22 fee, 2 cent tax, all you're getting are regulatory
23 services. We are not maintaining the public storm
24 sewers. We are not doing projects. MSD's average
25 customer is paying $8 a year for stormwater
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1 services.
2 If you live in the yellow area you're paying
3 a 24 cent fee, 2 cent property tax and a 7 cent
4 property tax. We're able to do the regulatory work.
5 We're able to maintain the public storm sewer system
6 but not do any projects. If you live in that area
7 the average taxpayer pays MSD a little over $26 per
8 year on their annual property tax bill for
9 stormwater services.
10 If you live in the green area you pay the 24
11 cent fee, 2 cent property tax, 7 cent property tax
12 and up to another 10 cent property tax. Folks in
13 that area pay an average annual amount of $53 per
14 year on their property tax bill for stormwater.
15 Again, in that area we can do the regulatory
16 work, maintain the public storm sewer system, and we
17 do have money available to do projects to resolve
18 erosion and flooding issues.
19 Now I want to talk about how MSD plans on
20 asking the taxpayers, the voters, to equalize the
21 services throughout MSD's boundaries. Really quick
22 I'm going to provide some graphics to kind of
23 describe and help explain what the issue is.
24 If you notice in the upper right-hand corner
25 that pink area represents the 2 cent property tax.
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1 That's actually on the entire map. So for that 2
2 cent tax we're able to maintain our stormwater
3 regulatory compliance activities. That's making
4 sure that any new development doesn't impact the
5 volume or doesn't impact by runoff -- stormwater
6 runoff discharging pollutants to local creeks and
7 streams. It allows us to monitor those creeks and
8 streams and understand their condition.
9 We do complaint investigation. We make sure
10 we understand all the stormwater problems that exist
11 and, again, if necessary, we can make some kind of
12 emergency response.
13 The next slide is something that kind of
14 represents what that work looks like. That gray
15 area you see is what was the yellow and green area
16 you just saw on the previous map. So everything
17 else is the red area.
18 The blue lines you see are the creeks and
19 streams in the area that MSD is responsible for with
20 regard to the impact of stormwater pollutants on
21 those creeks and streams. There is 1454 miles of
22 those creeks that MSD has to police.
23 Also, there are little green dots. There's
24 2,638 of them on this map. They represent either
25 best management practices or basins that hold
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1 stormwater back to resolve volume issues or also
2 help to clean up the stormwater before it runs off
3 and takes some of the pollutants out of the
4 stormwater before it impacts the creeks and streams.
5 MSD provides a building permitting process to
6 make sure folks meet our regulations and we police
7 those to make sure they're being followed. All of
8 that work is currently funded by the 2 cent tax. So
9 that work is being completed.
10 The next slide is a representation of what is
11 not being funded. All of the little black lines you
12 see there are parts of the public storm sewer system
13 that MSD owns and has no money to operate and
14 maintain. It is 1,363 miles of stormwater sewers,
15 approximately one half of the public storm sewer
16 system within MSD's municipal boundaries.
17 We have two issues we have to address. One,
18 there's no monies collected in this area, so there
19 are no monies to operate and maintain the system.
20 If an inlet gets busted, we can't fix it. If a
21 storm pipe comes apart and causes a sinkhole in
22 somebody's backyard, we may fill in the sinkhole, we
23 don't have monies to fix the pipe. If a stormwater
24 discharge pipe causes some erosion in a creek, we
25 don't have the monies to fix those. There are no
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1 monies to do any kind of operation and maintenance
2 of the system.
3 The second issue we've got is folks who live
4 in that area are not paying for the operation and
5 maintenance of any of the public storm sewer system
6 within our municipal boundaries. If you drive on
7 any local streets or roads within the area that's
8 shown here almost all of them are served by a public
9 storm sewer system that helps those roads operate
10 and function. If you drove here tonight you took
11 advantage of the public storm sewer system that MSD
12 operates and maintains.
13 We're looking to also make sure folks in the
14 red area help pay for their share of maintaining the
15 public storm sewer system throughout MSD's service
16 area.
17 How do we plan on going about that? We plan
18 on asking for a District-wide 10 cent property tax
19 in order to equalize services throughout the entire
20 District. That will result in a four-year operation
21 and maintenance cost of approximately $91 million
22 between 2017 through 2020 and a six-year capital
23 program of almost a hundred million dollars from
24 2015 to 2020. And for the first time that capital
25 program will have projects District-wide. It will
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1 not just be projects in the green area like I
2 explained earlier.
3 Again, what's driving the proposed revenue
4 changes? The biggest one is the maintenance of the
5 public storm sewer system. Half of our system is
6 located in the area that I showed previously. It
7 also, again, does initiate funding for stormwater
8 projects District-wide.
9 For the operating budget, Fiscal 16, right
10 now we're spending $16 million on the operation and
11 maintenance of the public storm sewer system:
12 inlets, manholes, storm sewers, paved concrete
13 channels. That goes up to 22 to $23 million a year
14 every year for the next four years, a little bit
15 under a 50 percent increase to double the amount of
16 the public storm sewer system that we have to
17 maintain. Obviously there's some economy to scale.
18 It's not necessarily one-for-one. So it only costs
19 a little less than 50 percent more to double the
20 size of the system that we have to operate and
21 maintain.
22 The capital program. And I'm going to start
23 from the top of the chart in the green areas. This
24 map is similar to what you saw on the wastewater
25 side and it's duplicated over here. Same way, each
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1 one of these projects has a number in it, the
2 circles have a number in it. It's a project. If
3 you looked on the spreadsheet you could find the
4 problem we're solving, how we're going to solve it,
5 what it will cost and when it will get done.
6 If you live in the green area we're planning
7 64 projects at a cost of $25 million. The funding
8 for that comes from taxes currently being collected
9 in those areas. It's spent out of those monies.
10 Whether a 10 cent District-wide tax passes or not,
11 just about all of those projects will get done
12 because it's a separate tax being paid by the folks
13 in that area.
14 You actually pay -- we would actually bill
15 slightly less because some of the revenues we
16 collect in the green area are actually used to
17 maintain the public storm sewer system but those
18 projects basically go either way whether we pass a
19 new tax or not.
20 If you live in the yellow area, which is the
21 City of St. Louis and mostly near North, South, and
22 West County, we've identify 47 projects valued at
23 seventeen and a half million dollars. Approximately
24 half of the value of those projects are in the City
25 of St. Louis, the other half in near North, West and
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1 South County.
2 Those projects come from excess dollars that
3 are available within an accounting change that comes
4 with the approval of a new tax. Those monies were
5 collected for one purpose with the passage of the
6 new tax. We are able to un-restrict how we spend
7 some of those dollars, that amount of money, but it
8 is money that has to be spent in that yellow area.
9 We can't spend it anywhere else throughout the
10 District.
11 Finally, in the red area -- and the yellow
12 has never had projects. This will be the first time
13 we've had stormwater projects in the yellow area.
14 In the red area we're identifying 60 projects
15 totaling seven and a half million dollars.
16 Where does that money come from? MSD is
17 proposing a 10 cent property tax for operation and
18 maintenance of the public storm sewer system. On
19 Year 1 we're predicting that 8.8 to 8.9 of that 10
20 cents is needed for operation of the public storm
21 sewer system. All left-over monies will be used for
22 stormwater capital projects to address erosion and
23 flooding issues.
24 Now, because we have those projects already
25 identified in the yellow and green area, the
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1 projects in the red area come up with the most
2 priority and, therefore, the excess money from the
3 new tax goes to the red area. We do this on a -- we
4 do our evaluation and prioritization based on a
5 cost-benefit analysis. We take the value of the
6 problem, divide it by the cost to solve the problem,
7 and the projects with the highest cost-benefit ratio
8 are the ones that get billed first.
9 And so in this particular case for the first
10 four years all those projects would be in the red
11 area as we have shown here.
12 So what are we proposing to happen to all the
13 taxes? Let's go through that real quick. In the
14 green area, again, you're paying up to an additional
15 10 cent property tax that nobody else is paying.
16 We're proposing to set that tax at zero and not
17 collect anything.
18 The stormwater O&M tax, the 7 cent property
19 tax, that's being paid by folks in the green and
20 yellow area. This new 10 cent tax would replace
21 that 7 cent property tax and it would go away.
22 I mentioned earlier there is a District-wide
23 2 cent property tax collected for regulatory issues.
24 Right now stormwater regulatory issues are funded
25 almost exactly with the amount of money we collect
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1 on the 2 cent District-wide property tax. So we're
2 not proposing any changes in that 2 cent tax. It is
3 currently sufficient to meet those enviromental
4 regulatory needs for stormwater.
5 And, finally, we would be looking to
6 implement a 10 cent property tax District-wide.
7 Also, for those of you who are wastewater customers,
8 we have a 24 cent per month charge on your
9 wastewater bill for stormwater. That fee would also
10 be replaced by the 10 cent property tax. It would
11 no longer exist.
12 What does that mean to individual property
13 owners? If you live in the green area the average
14 value of properties in the green area is $148,500.
15 Remembering that most of our stormwater revenue
16 comes from annual property tax bills. Right now
17 folks in that area are paying us just under $62 per
18 year for stormwater services. This change would
19 reduce their annual property tax bill by about $20
20 per year, resulting in an average property tax bill
21 of $42 per year from MSD. The impact on their
22 overall property tax bill would be a decrease of one
23 half of one percent.
24 The property tax that MSD collects is a very
25 small portion of what people pay on their property
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1 tax bill, so the impact on the overall bill is
2 fairly minor.
3 In the yellow area folks there are currently
4 paying us -- the property value in the yellow area
5 is $70,800. With that, the average taxpayer in that
6 area is paying us $12.50 per year on their annual
7 property tax bill. The proposed change would raise
8 that by $3.60, resulting in the average taxpayer
9 paying us an annual property tax bill of $60.10 per
10 year for stormwater service.
11 That change would be an increase of
12 three-tenths of one percent on their property taxes
13 or another three dollars for every thousand dollars
14 of taxes that they're currently paying.
15 Finally, if you live in the red area, and if
16 you recall this is the area where we collect the
17 fewest dollars and thus providing the fewest
18 services, with what we're proposing -- currently the
19 average properly value in that area is $266,700.
20 Currently folks at that rate are paying MSD $10.52 a
21 year for stormwater service. The proposal would
22 increase that by about $50 per year, resulting in
23 the average taxpayer in the red area on their annual
24 property tax bill paying $60.60 per year for
25 stormwater services.
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1 Change in the overall property tax bill for
2 the average property owner would be an increase of
3 1.2 percent. Again, a large increase but MSD is a
4 fairly minor portion of the property tax bill to
5 begin with.
6 What is the total customer impact? If you
7 look on this chart the left-hand side is assuming
8 the ratepayers authorize additional bonding
9 authority. The right side is assuming we do not
10 authorize additional bond authority. So throughout
11 the District in 2016 our average customer will pay
12 us $522 per year for all the services MSD provides.
13 By 2020, with additional bonding authority, that
14 would go up to $771 per year for all the services
15 that MSD provides.
16 Right-hand column is assuming that no
17 additional bond authority is authorized. With that,
18 again, $522.50 per year currently. That would go up
19 to just under $1200 per year in 2020.
20 The next slide is indicating we have a
21 customer assistance program having do with low
22 income residential customers. The effect of that
23 program is to cut by half the cost they pay for
24 wastewater.
25 So this chart is exactly the same. The
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1 left-hand side assumes additional bonding authority.
2 The right-hand side assumes no additional bonding
3 authority. And you will find that this chart is
4 just about one half the value of what you saw in the
5 previous chart and that's the impact of the low
6 income customer assistance program.
7 What to expect in the future? Again, under
8 the current process MSD staff submitted a Rate
9 Proposal to our Rate Commission on February 26,
10 2015. There will be a final wastewater increase for
11 our wastewater customers on July 1, 2015. That is
12 the last increase under the current rate cycle.
13 The Rate Commission is due to give
14 recommendations to our Board of Trustees on our Rate
15 Proposal on August 10th. The Board of Trustees
16 between October and December will consider that
17 recommendation from the Rate Commission and make
18 their own recommendation.
19 There's a couple ways to submit comments,
20 public comments, of the Rate Proposal. You can do
21 so tonight. We have also included an email address
22 and a mailing address. If you'd rather not make
23 comments this evening or you don't have the
24 opportunity, you know somebody else who doesn't, if
25 you will send them to those addresses we'll make
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1 sure the Rate Commission receives all the comments
2 that we receive.
3 So what does the future look like? There
4 will be two votes put in front of the ratepayers and
5 taxpayers in 2016, sometime in 2016. One will have
6 to do with wastewater. The voters will be asked
7 whether or not to authorize an additional
8 $900 million worth of bonding authority for MSD to
9 pay for capital improvement work over the next four
10 years.
11 If the ratepayers say yes, if you remember
12 those charts, the average monthly cost for
13 wastewater service will go from about $40 a month to
14 about $60. If they say no, would rather pay for the
15 program in cash, again, the current rate would be
16 about $40 per month in 2016, by 2020 the average
17 ratepayer would be paying about $96 a month for
18 wastewater.
19 It's a borrowing decision like many of you
20 have seen. If you decide to finance the work, it
21 costs less now but in the future everyone will have
22 to pay about two dollars for every dollar that was
23 borrowed to be able to pay for that interest.
24 If you decide not to borrow money, rates do
25 go up now, however, the capital program is scheduled
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1 to peak in about 2023 or so and as that goes down
2 the more you pay now using just cash the better
3 opportunity you have for rates to go down much
4 faster once the capital improvement program peaks
5 and starts getting smaller.
6 The second vote will be for stormwater and
7 the folks within our municipal boundaries will be
8 asked whether or not -- to vote on whether or not to
9 implement a 10-cent-wide property tax, primarily for
10 the operation and maintenance of the District-wide
11 public storm sewer system.
12 If they vote yes, we have the program that
13 you saw previously where we maintain the public
14 storm sewer system District-wide and we'll do the
15 projects located on the map similar to the one
16 that's over here on my left.
17 If they vote no, then MSD will maintain the
18 current stormwater service as it does now. If you
19 recall the red, yellow, green map, everybody pays a
20 different amount, everybody gets a different level
21 of service. That system will just simply remain in
22 place.
23 I would note there's two handouts that you
24 received. One is entitled, "MSD Rate Commission."
25 That is kind of a summation of the Rate Commission
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1 process and on the right-hand side in the blue bar
2 are the 15 Rate Commission organizations who are on
3 our Rate Commission, as well as our schedule for
4 public hearings. You'll notice this one is the
5 second one from the bottom.
6 Also there is a sheet that says, "2015 MSD
7 Rate Proposal." One side says, "Wastewater." It's
8 kind of a summation of everything I gave you
9 tonight. The backside says, "Stormwater," and
10 you'll find that red, yellow, green map there and
11 that's a summation of the information I presented
12 tonight with regard to stormwater.
13 With that, I believe the Rate Commission is
14 ready to accept public comments on MSD's staff's
15 Rate Proposal. Mr. Stein?
16 MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mr. Hoelscher. I
17 will call upon people tonight in the order in which
18 you signed in and give you the opportunity to make
19 comments or ask questions of Mr. Hoelscher. I'll
20 just remind you to please withhold your -- contain
21 your comments within a 10-minute time frame if
22 possible.
23 Mr. Osterhoff, do you have any comments or
24 questions?
25 MR. OSTERHOFF: Yes. Thanks for the
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1 opportunity to speak. Just a few comments. First
2 of all, we've had a lot of numbers thrown at us.
3 It's tough to digest.
4 MR. HOELSCHER: Sure.
5 MR. OSTERHOFF: But I've got three
6 primary comments. Number one, is this rate increase
7 a forgone conclusion? Is this an exercise that's
8 going to happen whether you hear us or not?
9 Point No. 2, you shared with us 10 percent
10 increases through 2020 and I guess what I would have
11 liked to have seen is a historical perspective.
12 What did we pay in the past? Because all I have is
13 my bill I get every month to go on that's personal
14 to me. And if I look at what I've been paying over
15 the past ten years I come up with about a 300
16 percent rate increase. That's all I can make my
17 judgment on.
18 By the way, it started when I built my home
19 12 years ago when I had no bill, zero costs, and
20 then two years later I received a nice letter from
21 the sewer district saying, "Oh, by the way, we made
22 a mistake. We screwed up and you owe us for two
23 years," and then it went up from there. So my love
24 of the sewer district is perhaps a little tainted, I
25 apologize.
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1 But I really would like to understand the
2 continuous increases of about 10 percent a year is
3 what it appears to be. I come from the private
4 sector. I live in Wildwood. If this were my
5 private business I would probably be out of
6 business.
7 And that leads me to my third comment, is
8 what alternatives are explored in lieu of a rate
9 increase? The thinking today seems to be we will
10 just increase the rates, the costs, the taxes versus
11 how can we find economies of scale or how can we
12 become more productive to keep our rates down for
13 the citizens who pay this.
14 So, again, thank you for the opportunity for
15 me to voice my comment.
16 MR. HOELSCHER: Mr. Chair, I think I can
17 answer two factually just pointing to information in
18 the Rate Proposal.
19 Will the increase happen or not? The work on
20 the wastewater side will have to happen. We're
21 under an order by a federal judge. We're like many
22 cities throughout the United States. There's a lot
23 of parts of our system that needed improvement.
24 Under some of those older rates, that you mentioned,
25 we were slowly working our way through all of those
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1 issues.
2 Probably the biggest result that comes out of
3 the Consent Decree is you were given a time frame to
4 get it all done. At the time we signed the Consent
5 Decree, we signed a 23-year Consent Decree, it was
6 the longest one in the country. We're given the
7 most time of anybody to resolve these issues.
8 So you're right in identifying that on the
9 wastewater side the work has to happen. We really
10 don't have a choice. The offer that's being given
11 to the ratepayers is to decide how to pay for it.
12 Historical, in the past, I don't have the
13 numbers with me but last year's Rate Proposal is
14 also on the website and it has the same kind of
15 information about what the increases were per year.
16 It does seem like it keeps going up and, if
17 you think about this, we had $1 billion worth of
18 work to do, bonded a lot of that, what we're
19 proposing now is another $1.5 billion worth of work
20 and borrowing money for a billion. There's
21 probably, as we show in the Rate Proposal, another
22 four years between 2021 and 2024, a significant
23 amount of work that needs to get started before the
24 program starts dropping off.
25 The amount of the increases is going to
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1 depend on whether the ratepayers decide to borrow
2 money or whether they decide to pay for it by cash.
3 Again, if you immediately go to cash, rates flatten
4 somewhat because of the program size but if you
5 borrow money for a four-year period and then have to
6 do it again the next four years, you have to borrow
7 money or pay more cash to get up there.
8 So I would offer -- and we might be able
9 to -- we can either -- I can find the right staff
10 person to ask but we can give you what the
11 percentage rate increases have been as far back as
12 you wish. The information is on the website. We do
13 have the previous Rate Proposal as well, which show
14 those.
15 But if you look in our program, right now
16 we're looking at rates to peak somewhere around
17 2023 or 2024, when the program size starts going
18 down.
19 As far as looking at other ways of addressing
20 this, I've shown areas where we are under budget and
21 on schedule. We are always finding a way to save
22 things. You will find in the Rate Proposal one of
23 the things that we think is very key is a comparison
24 between MSD's productivity and cost-effectiveness
25 against other wastewater utilities throughout the
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1 country. And we did it on a metric that's based on
2 a national analysis and you will find that MSD ranks
3 in the 75th to 80th and sometimes the best utility
4 throughout the country for cost-effectiveness.
5 It was one of the -- my predecessor happens
6 to be in the audience, but it was one of the first
7 things that MSD worked on when we knew the EPA had
8 decided it's St. Louis' turn to be put under the
9 microscope, was to really get our house in order to
10 make sure we just do things as cost-effectively as
11 possible and we keep doing that now and we do have
12 some evidence in the Rate Proposal to show that.
13 MR. OSTERHOFF: Thank you.
14 MR. HOELSCHER: Thank you.
15 MR. STEIN: Mr. Theerman, do you have
16 any questions or comments?
17 MR. THEERMAN: No, Mr. Chair. I
18 mistakenly signed that sheet. I have no comment.
19 MR. STEIN: Mr. Feuerstein?
20 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Yes.
21 MR. STEIN: Did I get that correct?
22 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Yes, sir. Feuerstein
23 actually. I'm a resident of Wildwood. First of
24 all, I would like to compliment Mr. Hoelscher on a
25 very well-organized and informative presentation. I
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1 think I really got a lot out of what you presented.
2 My first question has to do with the Rate
3 governance structure. In your Rate Notice you --
4 the quote is that it's "a broad cross-section of
5 customers in the community it serves." And as I
6 look down the roster tonight of the various entities
7 that are part of the Commission, five of the fifteen
8 are either construction companies or union
9 organizations. And, to me, that would seem to be a
10 pretty blatant potential conflict of interest and
11 they would have financial interest in this work
12 being approved.
13 So how does the Rate Commission respond to
14 that membership organization?
15 MR. STEIN: I can take a shot at that.
16 The constitution -- or the constituents of the Rate
17 Commission are set by the Charter. The Charter, as
18 I indicated, sets certain qualifications for who is
19 to be considered as an organization to belong to the
20 Rate Commission.
21 My personal experience has been that there
22 has been a limited number of organizations who
23 actually apply for membership on the Commission and
24 there have been times during the last rate cycle
25 when we actually operated two organizations short of
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1 full.
2 MR. FEUERSTEIN: So naturally the
3 construction companies and the unions would apply
4 and then who does the picking?
5 MR. STEIN: It's up to the Board of
6 Trustees to do that.
7 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Okay, the trustees. Do
8 you agree that that appears like they would have a
9 direct financial interest in the outcome, therefore,
10 I can't see how they would be impartial people to
11 vote on whether the increase goes forward or not?
12 I will leave you with that thought and
13 hopefully these comments are all on the record.
14 Okay. But I mean, you know, just reading this it's
15 pretty straight forward.
16 Second thing is on the wastewater it says in
17 your Rate Notice that it's largely, quote, unquote,
18 driven by state and federal requirements. Can you
19 quantify "largely"? Out of the total amount how
20 much is the mandate and how much is other stuff
21 you've added?
22 MR. HOELSCHER: Well over -- well over
23 99 percent.
24 MR. FEUERSTEIN: 99 percent?
25 MR. HOELSCHER: MSD's mission is
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1 basically to meet federal regulations.
2 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Okay. So as I look,
3 similar to the other gentleman over here who
4 commented on the rate increases, last summer at my
5 home here in Wildwood I got an 11 percent increase
6 in rates, we're talking for a 7/1/15, now another
7 13 percent increase and then 49 percent more from
8 7/16 to 7/19 for a total of 73 percent over six
9 years, so you can round that up to about a 12
10 percent a year. Twelve percent price increases are
11 unheard of in the commercial industry. I mean, it
12 just -- it comes across as exorbitant right off the
13 top, okay.
14 Secondly -- so that's the comment on the
15 wastewater part. On the stormwater, what's the
16 basic reason for the increase? Is it because you've
17 got unserved areas, is that what I gather here
18 tonight, large unserved areas?
19 MR. HOELSCHER: What we are showing is
20 there is one half of the District's public storm
21 sewer system that's located in that red area.
22 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Okay.
23 MR. HOELSCHER: And there was never a
24 revenue source put in place to fund the operation
25 and maintenance of that storm sewer system. The
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1 primary driver here is to provide a fund so we can
2 maintain the storm sewer system throughout the
3 entire District.
4 MR. FEUERSTEIN: And your average annual
5 rate goes from 10.52 per year to $60.60 per year and
6 that happens immediately if this is voted in?
7 MR. HOELSCHER: It would -- under the
8 current schedule it would show up on the property
9 tax that you pay near the end of Calendar 2016.
10 MR. FEUERSTEIN: So that's another
11 increase of somewhere around 500 percent, in
12 addition to the 73 percent on the wastewater part.
13 I mean, is it necessary to do them both now? It
14 seems a bit insensitive, you know, when you have to
15 do this big huge wastewater thing. What's the
16 reason for the timing of the wastewater now?
17 I mean, just from a PR perspective why didn't
18 you wait a year or try to defer it for two years or
19 something? It just comes across here's another 500
20 percent on top of the 73, you know, that's my
21 reaction to it, that it's just exorbitant.
22 And then overall, and I'll wrap up here for
23 time limit but, you know, the normal business choice
24 for making large investments in the commercial
25 world, that I live in, is you either raise prices to
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1 your customers, which is what you're doing here, or
2 you reduce operating costs or some of both.
3 So the question is: What specific actions
4 has MSD taken to reduce its operating costs? And
5 let me explain operating costs in my commercial
6 context. The management bonus pool, would be one.
7 General and administrative expense, would be
8 another. Consulting costs, would be another.
9 Operating overhead like facilities, would be
10 another.
11 You know, if you look down your chart of
12 accounts, so to speak, and you looked in the
13 overhead and support costs area it just seems that,
14 you know, there should be reductions made there to
15 contribute to this. And I'm not a materiality guy.
16 If you say oh, it would only be a hundred thousand,
17 well, that's okay, that would a hundred thousand
18 less that you would have to ask your customers in
19 increased prices.
20 So, you know, I just think it's so easy to go
21 to the ratepayers. And I prefer to be called a
22 customer than a ratepayer, by the way. But it's so
23 easy to go out there an increase your prices in a
24 quasi-monopoly setting but what are you really doing
25 to take costs out of your cost structure as your
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1 contribution? And then we have to make our
2 contribution as the balance. We shouldn't be the
3 hundred percenters.
4 MR. HOELSCHER: I think let me respond
5 to some of it.
6 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Or you can follow up
7 with me if you want to. You have my address and
8 mailing address and everything is there because I'm
9 really interested in knowing specifically what
10 actions have you taken. Have you reduced the bonus
11 pool? What do you need that big facility down there
12 on Market Street for, couldn't you go out and go
13 into a leased space instead of the palace?
14 You know, when you're talking these kind of
15 numbers I would think you would be looking at every
16 available aspect of your cost structure even before
17 you come out to us and lay on a 500 percent increase
18 in one thing and a 73 percent in another.
19 MR. HOELSCHER: I think -- I'll give you
20 one thing, we are a municipal entity, there are no
21 bonuses.
22 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Okay.
23 MR. HOELSCHER: But one of the things,
24 since you offered that --
25 MR. FEUERSTEIN: No performance bonuses?
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: No, sir.
2 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Okay.
3 MR. HOELSCHER: I think let me take --
4 we can take everything you said and we'll -- I
5 briefly mentioned --
6 MR. FEUERSTEIN: How about consultants,
7 you have a lot of those?
8 MR. HOELSCHER: Based on a business case
9 they're the most cost-effective way to resolve the
10 issues now as opposed to hiring local staff for that
11 short period of time. And there's a business case
12 that gets put in place for --
13 MR. FEUERSTEIN: For every consultant
14 procurement in a bidding process?
15 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, consultants --
16 yes, every time they're going to be used there's a
17 business case we use.
18 MR. FEUERSTEIN: And, you know,
19 obviously facilities, that has got to be a big cost
20 for you. And general and administrative, I don't
21 know how -- I haven't looked at your org chart, so I
22 don't know how you're staffed for general and
23 administrative but --
24 MR. HOELSCHER: I will give you 12 years
25 ago there were 17 members of senior staff. That was
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1 reduced to 8 in preparation for this program.
2 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Okay.
3 MR. HOELSCHER: Just as an example.
4 MR. FEUERSTEIN: How long ago?
5 MR. HOELSCHER: Fifteen years ago
6 because we --
7 MR. FEUERSTEIN: About time to take
8 another look.
9 MR. HOELSCHER: When we saw this was
10 going to come -- and then at the time we had almost
11 1,000 employees and now, even with all the increased
12 work, we're still at 950.
13 MR. FEUERSTEIN: You know, I would
14 respectively suggest after 15 years it's probably
15 time to take another hard look at that.
16 MR. HOELSCHER: It is looked at every
17 year and I would --
18 MR. FEUERSTEIN: On a zero-based budget
19 basis or on an incremental basis?
20 MR. HOELSCHER: Zero-based budget every
21 year.
22 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Okay.
23 MR. HOELSCHER: And I would also suggest
24 that was one of the reasons we included in the Rate
25 Proposal, I mentioned it briefly, a comparison of
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1 our cost-effectiveness against other utilities
2 throughout the country.
3 MR. FEUERSTEIN: So you benchmark?
4 MR. HOELSCHER: And we benchmark and
5 you'll find that in the Rate Proposal. We thought
6 it was important that --
7 MR. FEUERSTEIN: You benchmark on
8 operating costs?
9 MR. HOELSCHER: Operating costs,
10 quality, production, all those.
11 MR. FEUERSTEIN: And that's on your
12 website?
13 MR. HOELSCHER: It's actually in the
14 Rate Proposal.
15 MR. FEUERSTEIN: Okay. All right. Last
16 comment, you know, as you look at these percentages
17 they come across as economically unrealistic for
18 consumers, you know, this and for the Rate
19 Commission, you've got the Ameren people, you've got
20 Laclede, everybody wants to increase the price to
21 the consumers. And what you're doing is, you're
22 creating an economically unrealistic outcome for all
23 consumers but especially devastating for people on
24 fixed incomes.
25 And a lot of people on fixed incomes don't
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1 qualify for that. You know, it's like Medicaid,
2 it's there but not many can get it. So these kind
3 of price increases just come across as, you know,
4 insensitive to reality. And I will end my comments
5 with that.
6 One other thing, I really would say to the
7 Rate Commission now, as opposed to MSD, that this
8 roster of Rate Commission members, the optics on
9 that are terrible because anybody with any ethical
10 or conflict of interest training looks down that
11 list and you see financial interest in the
12 membership taking votes and that really needs to be
13 looked at. Thank you very much.
14 MR. STEIN: Thank you very much.
15 Mr. Caster?
16 MR. CASTER: Thank you, Mr. Stein. Yes,
17 my name is Paul Caster. I'm a voter and a customer
18 of MSD. I'm also representing Ballwin Governor
19 Court Homeowners Assocation as a spokesman and as a
20 member of that association.
21 I want to say, first of all, I have much
22 respect for the Rate Commission and for the MSD
23 director here. I'm going to ask, please, for some
24 indulgence. If there are other people who want to
25 go before me, I will go last. I know I'm going to
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1 run over ten minutes. The reason being, this is
2 not -- this is my second rodeo, if you will. I
3 attended the May 12th presentation at the Pointe in
4 Ballwin. I did not have an opportunity to fully
5 digest the presentation, the PowerPoint here. I
6 have done that in the past two weeks and I want to
7 go over that with Mr. Hoelscher if we have time.
8 So I will do two things this evening. The
9 purpose would be to review this presentation and the
10 reason I want to do that, sir, is because I
11 recognize, maybe unintentional, there are some
12 errors. There are some omissions. And there are
13 some deficiencies in this presentation that I will
14 point out.
15 The second thing I wanted to do, as I think
16 you suggested, sir, we can offer into record some
17 documents. I would like to do that before I leave
18 this evening.
19 So, on that note, let me turn to you,
20 Mr. Hoelscher, and go over the presentation.
21 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay.
22 MR. CASTER: Is that acceptable? Okay.
23 I will try to do this real quick because I know
24 folks have other things to do this evening.
25 On the back of the introduction page here,
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1 the backside on stormwater service, you have a
2 bullet point here that reads, "Addressing regulatory
3 requirements regarding impacts of stormwater runoff
4 on receiving stream water quality." That's one of
5 the issues that we have with the homeowners
6 association that I will present in a bit.
7 Now, that regulatory requirement is part of
8 the Consent Decree?
9 MR. HOELSCHER: No, sir, it is a
10 separate stormwater regulation.
11 MR. CASTER: Okay. So are we saying,
12 therefore, that you are not under the regulatory
13 Clean Water Act and the Missouri River Clean Water
14 Law?
15 MR. HOELSCHER: We are under that law
16 but not under the Consent Decree. It's a separate
17 permit. The law covers a separate function.
18 MR. CASTER: The Consent Decree does
19 cover those two things, right, the Clean Water --
20 MR. HOELSCHER: Not with regard to
21 stormwater, no, sir.
22 MR. CASTER: Pardon me?
23 MR. HOELSCHER: Not with -- the Consent
24 Decree does not with regard to those two issues, no.
25
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1 MR. CASTER: Oh, the stormwater is
2 excluded?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: It is not included in
4 the Consent Decree.
5 MR. CASTER: Oh, I see, okay. And I
6 understand that in order for this to be an effective
7 community presentation we're looking for full
8 disclosure. Full disclosure, from my point of view,
9 is to the voters in the community and to the
10 ratepayers, customers of MSD. Your report here has
11 some errors, has some omissions, again, maybe
12 unintentionally but let me go through page 5 with
13 you, sir, entitled, "2013-2016 Rate Proposal
14 Status."
15 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, sir.
16 MR. CASTER: You have that? Okay. I'm
17 looking for Appendix 7.7.1. Maybe my package here
18 doesn't include that.
19 MR. HOELSCHER: It would be the appendix
20 in the actual Rate Proposal document. The actual --
21 we indicated we have some here and the full Rate
22 Proposal is actually on our website. Again, this is
23 a summation of that Rate Proposal but this is the
24 entire Rate Proposal document.
25 MR. CASTER: I respect what you're
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1 saying, however, if the voters here are going to get
2 a presentation in pieces and in parts, there's no
3 reference here where we should go to pull up this
4 particular illustration, the appendix. You have
5 several others I'm going to point out.
6 MR. HOELSCHER: I mentioned earlier that
7 those references are to our full Rate Proposal.
8 This is a summation and that if you went to the full
9 Rate Proposal that's where those appendices are.
10 This is a summation of the information. It is not
11 the entire full Rate Proposal document. We did not
12 present all of that.
13 MR. CASTER: Well, I don't know if
14 voters are going to go and research what you're
15 saying but they're not in this package.
16 MR. HOELSCHER: Correct.
17 MR. CASTER: You refer to them in here.
18 You refer to them in your package here, in your
19 presentation, but I can't find them.
20 MR. HOELSCHER: Correct, they're not
21 there. They're in the Rate Proposal itself.
22 MR. CASTER: Okay. Flipping through
23 here, "Wastewater Rate Change Drivers: Get the Rain
24 Out." The last bullet, "Maintaining AA bond
25 Rating," sir. Your financial statement said you
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1 have $390 million of prior revenue bonds not spent
2 on capital projects are invested and they incur
3 interest expense and interest revenue. Specifically
4 the last financial statement of 2014 indicates that
5 you're spending approximately -- I'm going to have
6 to sit down -- 46 -- $47 million of interest expense
7 on those investments and you're receiving
8 approximately $20 million in revenue.
9 Your total currently, bond service with
10 interest and expense, is $67 million annually. I'm
11 taking this from your financial statement. Along
12 with what the gentleman that preceded me said, it
13 seems like we ought to do a better job, maybe not
14 investing the money, spending the $390 million on
15 already appointed bond revenue on capital projects.
16 Okay. Why aren't we doing that?
17 MR. HOELSCHER: Any of the money that
18 you see there from bond sales have already got
19 designated projects that are being awarded against
20 those bond revenues or will be awarded during the
21 fiscal year. We don't borrow or go to the bond --
22 we don't go to bond sales on a monthly basis or a
23 biweekly basis, usually once a year and any of the
24 monies you see there we do sell the bonds so that we
25 have sufficient fund balance to actually appropriate
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1 the monies for part or an entire project that may
2 last for that fiscal year.
3 So during any one individual bond sale on a
4 given day the money is not spent the next day. It
5 sits and it's slowly being drawn down. We don't
6 purchase or sell any bonds unless we have capital
7 projects already planned to use the money.
8 So what you're seeing there, and I think
9 Mr. Snoke explained this, that's the balance that's
10 existing between the appropriation for the actual
11 project and the time it takes to actually build the
12 project, actually draw down on the cash.
13 MR. CASTER: Okay. I'll move on. The
14 conclusion of that scenario is you're investing
15 bonds, you're paying out much more in terms of
16 interest expense than you're taking in on
17 investments, the revenue, as I pointed out before.
18 I don't want to be redundant. $20 million in
19 revenue. $47 million in interest. That's -- let me
20 move on here.
21 Would this be considered, the $390 million
22 that you have in investments carried over from other
23 bonds as increasing the bond rating? Of course, we
24 know how that works depending upon the amount of
25 assets that you have on the balance sheet, you would
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1 include the $390 million, at least the bond folks
2 would look at that, right, they would evaluate it?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: I'm sure that would be
4 one of the things they would look at, yes.
5 MR. CASTER: So if that $390 million
6 disappeared or you spent it, your bond rating, you
7 might say, would drop?
8 MR. HOELSCHER: Understanding I'm not
9 the financial expert but if we, for instance, didn't
10 sell any more bonds and had no more bonds to sell,
11 that balance would eventually go to zero and I don't
12 think it would have any impact on our bond rating.
13 Those bonds have already been designated towards
14 projects to be spent and the bond revenues
15 themselves aren't used for any kind of coverage for
16 the bonds. We have to have cash for that.
17 MR. CASTER: Well, isn't that considered
18 a kind of leveraging on borrowing? You borrow --
19 MR. HOELSCHER: If we were able to
20 borrow every day for our daily expenses you wouldn't
21 have that but I think the reality is you do borrow
22 in chunks and, in the meantime, as the cash flow
23 catches up for what you borrowed you will have
24 balances and it would only be prudent of us to
25 invest whatever happens to not be used immediately
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1 to help defer some of the interest expenses on those
2 dollars.
3 MR. CASTER: I will just remind you that
4 your Public Funds Investment Policy Exhibit A
5 prohibits you from leveraging and I need
6 clarification on that.
7 MR. HOELSCHER: It prohibits us --
8 MR. CASTER: Not now, Mr. Hoelscher.
9 Not now.
10 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay.
11 MR. CASTER: And then, again, if you
12 flip that page over, sir, the Wastewater Rate
13 Proposal.
14 MR. HOELSCHER: Which number are you on,
15 sir?
16 MR. CASTER: Just flip to the page we're
17 talking about.
18 MSD STAFF: Eight.
19 MR. HOELSCHER: Eight. Thank you.
20 MR. CASTER: "Wastewater Rate Proposal
21 Key Financial Components." Again, the tables are
22 missing on my package. The following page,
23 "Additional Use of Debt," the tables are not
24 attached to my package.
25 Okay. I want to move on, please. Page 13,
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1 table attachments are not here. I'll move on
2 quickly. On page 17, sir, the last bullet reads,
3 bullet point reads, "Emergency Response in critical
4 health and safety situations."
5 Will you please explain what you mean, how
6 you define by policy what the emergency response is
7 given?
8 MR. HOELSCHER: As I said, our example
9 of emergency responses, that we would determine to
10 use those funds, has typically been if erosion is
11 resulting in a creek bank coming up to a house and
12 the house is ready to fall into the creek. That is
13 what we -- that's the type of thing we classify as
14 an emergency.
15 MR. CASTER: Okay. So there is erosion
16 issues pertaining to an emergency?
17 MR. HOELSCHER: If a house -- like I
18 said, the one instance and I'm giving -- that's an
19 example, is if a house is ready to fall into a creek
20 we have in the past taken action on something like
21 that. That is the kind of emergency we would use
22 those funds for.
23 MR. CASTER: You would have to wait
24 until that point. What about the situation if a
25 creek contains E. coli contaminant, bank erosion,
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1 health and safety of children, would that be
2 considered an emergency?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: Those issues are being
4 addressed both with the wastewater program, which is
5 to prevent wastewater overflows for pollutants --
6 MR. CASTER: I'm sorry, sir?
7 MR. HOELSCHER: The wastewater program,
8 the Consent Decree, is to prevent overflows with
9 just partial sources of that and then under the
10 permit we have with the state to address those types
11 of issues right now is what's called, "best
12 management practice."
13 So we take new development that goes in place
14 and we put processes in place to help clean the
15 stormwater runoff and that's the phase we're in
16 right now as to what's required by state regulation
17 to address that issue you mentioned.
18 MR. CASTER: Okay. Well, we have been
19 addressing this issue here in Ballwin, Governor
20 Court Homeowners Association, since 2007.
21 MR. HOELSCHER: It's probably existed
22 long since before 1954.
23 MR. CASTER: What, sir, I'm sorry?
24 MR. HOELSCHER: The issues probably have
25 exited for a very long time.
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1 MR. CASTER: Well, I want to read,
2 Mr. Stein, into the record and I will give these
3 documents to you, there is an April 16 letter from
4 the Missouri Coalition for the Environment. It's
5 addressed to me in Ballwin. I'm not going to read
6 the whole letter. I'm going to read a paragraph out
7 of this letter. It's the third paragraph.
8 "In researching Fishpot Creek I learned that
9 it is listed on Missouri's Impaired Waters List for
10 bacteria contaminant -- specifically, E. coli." And
11 this was authored by Alicia Lloyd from MCE.
12 My point is simply this, in the creek that
13 goes through our little community, there are
14 children in there playing in the creek bed. So we
15 need to find out this evening what kind of remedy or
16 what kind of situation would rise to the point of an
17 emergency to get in there and clean this up.
18 In addition to the stormwater pipe, that it
19 needs severe repair, that is evidenced by a letter
20 here, another one of our advocates, the City of
21 Ballwin. This letter is dated May the 7th, 2014 and
22 it's written by Gary Kramer, city engineer. It's
23 directed to your attention, sir, and it's dated May
24 the 7th. I'm not going to read the whole letter,
25 just a sentence out of the first paragraph.
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1 "The creek" -- we're talking about Fishpot
2 Creek -- "has severely eroded and the pipe suspended
3 above the creek bed. In addition, discharge from
4 this pipe has created a deep, stagnant pool of
5 water; great for mosquito breeding.
6 Please advise what assistance MSD can provide
7 in correcting the bank erosion, securing the
8 suspended pipe and eliminate the pool created by the
9 pipe."
10 So the question is: Does MSD have a
11 responsibility to maintain situations as described
12 here? And, if so, what is your policy on
13 maintenance? Can we please have a copy of the
14 maintenance log? "We," meaning the Governor Court
15 Home Association. The maintenance log from 2007 to
16 today to verify that there has been maintenance on
17 this particular area as referenced by the City of
18 Ballwin.
19 MR. HOELSCHER: Is there a question or
20 --
21 MR. CASTER: Yeah, the question is: Do
22 you have a maintenance policy?
23 MR. HOELSCHER: We have a maintenance
24 policy. Unfortunately, as described, that only
25 applies to the areas where we have funds to
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1 implement that policy. In the area you're speaking
2 of there are no funds collected to maintain those --
3 MR. CASTER: I don't mean to be
4 argumentative, Mr. Hoelscher, I'm just asking if you
5 have a maintenance policy.
6 MR. HOELSCHER: We do have a maintenance
7 policy, yes.
8 MR. CASTER: Can you please provide that
9 to me so I can give it to the homeowners
10 association?
11 MR. HOELSCHER: Sure.
12 MR. CASTER: Please.
13 MR. STEIN: Mr. Caster, your turn has
14 taken about 15 minutes here. I don't want to deny
15 you the opportunity to continue your questions but
16 --
17 MR. CASTER: All right, Mr. Stein.
18 MR. STEIN: -- what I would like to do
19 is suspend your turn here and let some of these
20 other folks that have been patiently waiting have
21 their turn and at the end we can come back to any
22 further questions you have.
23 MR. CASTER: Come back to me? That's
24 fine.
25 MR. STEIN: Is that okay?
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1 MR. CASTER: Sure. Absolutely.
2 MR. STEIN: Ms. Griesedieck?
3 MS. GRIESEDIECK: Hi, I'm Sarah
4 Griesedieck and I live in Town & Country and I'm a
5 little unclear on what the bond issue is, the
6 figure. I've heard 500 million. I've heard a
7 billion and a half. So what exactly is the top
8 million dollar you're looking for, for the bond
9 issue?
10 MR. HOELSCHER: Yeah, if you look on --
11 let me say it specifically -- if you look on page 9,
12 the request right now -- the way MSD has proposed to
13 the Rate Commission is to propose an additional
14 $900 million bond authorization.
15 MS. GRIESEDIECK: Okay. And will that
16 be achieved through a vote?
17 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, it requires a vote.
18 MS. GRIESEDIECK: And when will that
19 vote take place?
20 MR. HOELSCHER: It will be sometime in
21 Calendar 2016. We have two votes, that and
22 stormwater. Exactly what the timing is and when
23 they occur, that's something we will determine as
24 the end of the year approaches.
25 MS. GRIESEDIECK: So there will be two
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1 votes in 2016?
2 MR. HOELSCHER: One for stormwater --
3 MS. GRIESEDIECK: Right.
4 MR. HOELSCHER: -- whether or not to
5 collect the tax and then this. I will let you know
6 MSD's procedure with that is before any vote we will
7 go out and we will do educational presentations to
8 everybody to let them know if you vote yes, this is
9 what happens, if you vote no, this is what happens.
10 We won't advocate but we will have presentations
11 similar to this to explain to people this would be
12 the consequences of voting one way or the other.
13 MS. GRIESEDIECK: Okay. That's all I
14 have right now. Thank you.
15 MR. STEIN: Mr. Pfarr?
16 MR. PFARR: Yes. Good evening. First
17 of all, I want to say thank you to MSD. I think
18 your services are great. I have no complaints and
19 my last episode with our last storm everything was
20 taken care of and I appreciate it. The fellas did
21 great work. Some of our neighbors don't think so
22 but your system was maintained well. We just didn't
23 maintain some of our systems.
24 As far as the rate increase, will that cover
25 some of the work that needs to be done on Caulks
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1 Creek, which is out here in Wildwood?
2 MR. HOELSCHER: If you're talking about
3 things like erosion and flooding in Caulks Creek,
4 the stormwater increase is a start. I would have to
5 look on the chart to see if there's any stormwater
6 work specifically to Caulks Creek identified right
7 now. The wastewater would not. That rate increase
8 would not cover any work on Caulks Creek with regard
9 to the condition of the creek.
10 The 10 cent tax might and what we might want
11 to do afterwards is -- who's here from engineering,
12 Bruce -- we can take a look at the map here and see
13 what projects are currently on the list and if it's
14 not there we can go back and let you know kind of
15 where its priority sits with everything else.
16 MR. PFARR: If there is areas along the
17 creek that goes through, like say our subdivision,
18 I'm a trustee for the area, and we say, "Hey, we'll
19 give you some money to help do some of this," is
20 that workable? For erosion.
21 MR. HOELSCHER: It is. We -- and,
22 again, we're working in a new area. We've actually
23 never had an offer from a subdivision trustee. It
24 usually comes from a municipality or something.
25 MSD's policy is not to speed up the work, you know,
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1 bring monies in because somebody can afford
2 something because we do have some communities who
3 are very low on rates but as far as is there someway
4 to match that with -- they're all case by case and I
5 think if you talk to us we need to understand what
6 it looks like, how much --
7 MR. PFARR: We're in the process of
8 doing that.
9 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay. And if you're
10 doing that, that's the right way to do it. It's
11 very case by case. Sometimes we can, sometimes we
12 cannot and it's something we'd have to discuss with
13 you.
14 MR. PFARR: Okay. I'm in favor of the
15 rate increase. I'm just saying, as a homeowner,
16 you're going to base it upon my property value?
17 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, sir, that's the
18 proposal.
19 MR. PFARR: So I'll pay more than
20 somebody else and maybe I'm not going to dump as
21 much into the waste system or stormwater-wise.
22 That's where I have a problem. I think there's a
23 little bit of disparity in that. If we're going to
24 share, let's all share equally.
25 MR. HOELSCHER: What I would offer, it
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1 is an issue -- Mr. Stein previously commented about
2 some of the testimony that has been submitted and
3 there's testimony both ways about the way MSD is
4 proposing property tax, as well as some testimonies
5 being submitted by other folks who think that maybe
6 an impervious area might be better. All that
7 information is on the website. So if you want to go
8 through and you can kind of see -- to be fair,
9 there's probably logic both ways and if you want to
10 take a look it will at least give you an idea of
11 what everybody is thinking as to what the Rate
12 Commission is hearing from everybody who's
13 testifying. Am I saying that right, sir?
14 MR. STEIN: Yes.
15 MR. PFARR: Okay. Thank you.
16 MR. STEIN: Thank you, sir. Ms. Venard?
17 MS. VENARD: No comments.
18 MR. STEIN: Mr. or Ms. Dunn?
19 MR. DUNN: Mr. Dunn.
20 MR. STEIN: Mr. Dunn.
21 MR. DUNN: I really only have one
22 question. With the construction, it's obvious the
23 money is going to be spent regardless, right? We're
24 doing the wastewater regardless, we have no vote in
25 that? Our only vote is how we pay for it, correct?
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: Correct, sir.
2 MR. DUNN: Okay. And that's going to
3 take over a four-year period to get everything
4 corrected? Or how long is a period --
5 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, that four-year it
6 will take -- the total program goes to about 2033.
7 It peaks at around 2023. The program has gone like
8 this and then it will go back down for the work
9 that's required in the Consent Decree.
10 MR. DUNN: And is this all going to be
11 done within MSD? Are you going to subcontract most
12 of this stuff out?
13 MR. HOELSCHER: We contract most of
14 that. As somebody mentioned earlier -- I can't
15 remember who asked about cost-effectiveness --
16 MR. DUNN: And that's what I was going
17 to say.
18 MR. HOELSCHER: Whether it's the
19 engineering, right-of-way acquisition, construction,
20 we do a business case and determine what is the most
21 cost-effective way to proceed.
22 MR. DUNN: But if you're talking about
23 projects going --
24 MR. HOELSCHER: Work of that side is all
25 contracted, almost all of it is contracted.
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1 MR. DUNN: Over a seven-year period, is
2 that what you just said?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, again, the program
4 for the C.D. is going to go until 2033 or so.
5 MR. DUNN: 2033?
6 MR. HOELSCHER: Right. Most -- almost
7 all of the program we just presented here today will
8 be contracted, both the engineering and the
9 construction.
10 MR. DUNN: And it's been looked at both
11 ways which would be most cost-effective?
12 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes.
13 MR. DUNN: Okay. That's all I have.
14 MR. STEIN: Thank you, sir. Mr. or
15 Ms. Hartwig?
16 MR. HARTWIG: No comment. Thank you.
17 MR. STEIN: No comment, okay. In that
18 case, I will go back to Mr. Caster and let you
19 complete your comments or questions.
20 MR. CASTER: Thank you, Mr. Stein.
21 Thank you. Page 25, please. You have a listing
22 here of monthly charges, single-family,
23 multi-family, under "Proposed Stormwater Revenue
24 Structure."
25 MR. HOELSCHER: You're on Page 25 you
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1 said, sir?
2 MR. CASTER: Yes, 25.
3 MR. HOELSCHER: Proposed Stormwater
4 Revenue Structure?
5 MR. CASTER: Yes, sir.
6 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay.
7 MR. CASTER: You have listed here
8 residential only, single and multi but no disclosure
9 of commercial, "commercial" meaning hospitals,
10 healthcare providers, educational institutions and
11 so on.
12 MR. HOELSCHER: I'm going to -- do we
13 have somebody -- you've caught me there. If they
14 are paying something, they are paying 18 cents a
15 month on their wastewater bill. I'm looking to
16 staff. I think that charge goes to everybody who
17 has a wastewater bill; is that correct? That's one
18 we'll have to get back with you on.
19 MR. CASTER: I would suggest that maybe
20 you put that in here for your next presentation.
21 MR. HOELSCHER: Sure.
22 MR. CASTER: That's a suggestion. The
23 only last comment I have on this is that the red
24 area that you have here, meaning west of 270, if I
25 understand your presentation, no capital projects
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1 will be done west of 270 by MSD?
2 MR. HOELSCHER: As things are currently
3 structured if the 10 cent vote gets passed we then
4 do have the ability to do work west of 270.
5 MR. CASTER: You do or you do not?
6 MR. HOELSCHER: We do and that's what's
7 shown on the map up here, is the work that would be
8 proposed. I think we indicated blank number of
9 projects for about seven and a half million dollars.
10 MR. CASTER: How many west of 270, I'm
11 sorry?
12 MR. HOELSCHER: If you go to slide --
13 MR. LeCOMB: Twenty-four.
14 MR. HOELSCHER: Thank you. Twenty-four.
15 And it's not quite 270 because that's a general
16 description of where that boundary difference is but
17 on Slide 24 you see where the projects are. That's
18 a total. The individual projects, again, are in the
19 Rate Proposal or we've got a map with the
20 spreadsheet here to look at what those projects are.
21 MR. CASTER: I didn't understand that in
22 your first presentation. However, my final comment,
23 Mr. Stein, I'm going to offer this document to you
24 as an amendment to your presentation since I think
25 the presentation should be expanded to include a
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1 little more information to the voters on the amount
2 of per capita debt that this bond issue is going to
3 impact upon everyone sitting here. As I understand
4 it, the per capita MSD customer debt burden
5 currently is $1,400 approximately.
6 By the way, I want to thank you because Tim
7 Snoke, secretary treasurer, did call me. We had a
8 conversation about this yesterday. And I think
9 we're in agreement since Mr. Snoke said that he
10 believes that the Commission wants to have more
11 disclosure on this particular issue of the debt
12 impact on the voters.
13 Let me continue. Current debt burden will
14 increase with the new bond issue 54 percent. It
15 will go from approximately $1400 to $2,158.
16 And, the second point, in the event of any
17 bond payment default by MSD what happens? Who is
18 responsible to make up those deficits or who is
19 responsible to cure that?
20 MR. HOELSCHER: MSD would be.
21 MR. CASTER: How would they do that?
22 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, MSD's revenues
23 come from its ratepayers.
24 MR. CASTER: In other words, in ultimacy
25 the MSD customers would be responsible?
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: Right. MSD doesn't make
2 a profit. It's a zero-budget entity. Any monies we
3 have to spend anywhere come from our ratepayers.
4 MR. CASTER: So if there were a bond
5 default people in this room, as customers and
6 voters, would be responsible to cure that?
7 MR. HOELSCHER: That would be the only
8 source of funding for MSD, yeah.
9 MR. CASTER: Okay. MSD has incurred 1.7
10 billion in bond financing today. We're going to add
11 another billion in outstanding bonds. MSD has made
12 no payments on 691 million senior bond financing
13 from 2006 to 2013. I'm taking this from your data
14 in your matrix on the bonds. I went over this with
15 Mr. Snoke yesterday. He agrees.
16 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay.
17 MR. CASTER: You can confirm this,
18 please, you can confirm what I'm giving you.
19 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay.
20 MR. CASTER: MSD's 2005 debt service --
21 I'm sorry, I already mentioned this. $47 million in
22 interest -- 20 million in interest, 47 million in
23 revenue. MSD bonds are considered restricted. We
24 had this conversation on May the 12th. They're
25 restricted. Cannot be co-mingled with MSD general
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1 funds nor used for operational purposes. Is that
2 your understanding?
3 MR. HOELSCHER: That's correct.
4 MR. CASTER: That's correct?
5 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes.
6 MR. CASTER: Well, nevermind. I agree.
7 MSD bond revenue produced approximately -- I
8 went over this point. I'll skip it.
9 The U.S. District Court Consent Decree, that
10 you mentioned, mandates that MSD achieve and
11 maintain compliance with the Clean Water Act and the
12 Missouri Clean Water Law without qualification.
13 Would that be correct?
14 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes.
15 MR. CASTER: Okay. That Consent Decree
16 went for about four years?
17 MR. HOELSCHER: Goes for 23 years,
18 approximately 23 years. There is a close-out
19 period but approximately 23 years.
20 MR. CASTER: Okay. Well, let me
21 rephrase it. The litigation behind that went, if I
22 understand, for four years?
23 MR. HOELSCHER: I think we were sued in
24 2007, the summer. Help me out here folks. 2007?
25 MSD STAFF: That's correct.
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: And, while we came to an
2 agreement, the document actually got signed in April
3 of 2012.
4 MR. CASTER: Can you tell me
5 approximately how much our litigation costs were
6 over that period of time?
7 MR. HOELSCHER: I don't have that with
8 me but we can get that to you.
9 MR. CASTER: Would you say it would be
10 in the millions?
11 MR. HOELSCHER: I'm sure it was in the
12 millions. We saved -- you know, I will speak up a
13 little bit about our negotiating ability with regard
14 to how the regulatory issues are addressed in the
15 yellow area. The original proposal from the
16 regulators was to spend $2 billion and we negotiated
17 down to a hundred million dollars. So I will at
18 least throw that piece out.
19 MR. CASTER: Thank you. Now, the
20 Consent Decree -- one more point here.
21 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, sir.
22 MR. CASTER: The Consent Decree requires
23 MSD to spend a minimum, a minimum as I read it, of
24 $4.7 billion by the year 2023, I think it is.
25 Would that be correct?
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: I would like -- I would
2 have to see exactly where you read that. That
3 number could go up or down. It could actually go
4 down.
5 MR. CASTER: It's in the Consent Decree.
6 I may be a little fuzzy on the actual date, that's
7 2023 --
8 MR. HOELSCHER: If costs come in less we
9 do have the ability to keep those --
10 MR. CASTER: The figure is 4.7 billion?
11 MR. HOELSCHER: 4.7 billion is a good
12 number, yes, in 2010 dollars.
13 MR. CASTER: But it reads "a minimum."
14 MR. HOELSCHER: Okay.
15 MR. CASTER: You can go above that?
16 MR. HOELSCHER: We could also go below
17 it.
18 MR. CASTER: Right. So if we add -- as
19 we're talking this evening, one billion added to the
20 existing 1.7 billion, that we already borrowed,
21 you're up to 2.7 billion, which means you can add
22 another 2 billion in voter-approved bond financing
23 at a minimum.
24 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, whether or not we
25 use bonds or cash is up to the voters. That 4.7
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1 billion isn't tied to only being paid for by bonds.
2 It is up to the voters to determine whether they
3 want to use cash or bonds.
4 MR. CASTER: Explain to me -- you have
5 to clarify that.
6 MR. HOELSCHER: MSD only gets bonding
7 authority if the voters decide to authorize
8 additional bonding authority to MSD.
9 MR. CASTER: So the only revenue source
10 you're saying is cash?
11 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, sir.
12 MR. CASTER: Coming from where?
13 MR. HOELSCHER: From ratepayers, as well
14 as much federal dollars as we can bring into the
15 program.
16 MR. CASTER: So you could increase that?
17 You could increase at any amount?
18 MR. HOELSCHER: Increase what's that?
19 MR. CASTER: The rates.
20 MR. HOELSCHER: Through this rate
21 process.
22 MR. CASTER: You can. All right.
23 I want to make clear that I understand what
24 your emergency situation is, how you declare an
25 emergency as I try to explain for different
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1 situations, especially for the Fishpot Creek issue
2 that we have with E. coli bacteria contaminant.
3 MR. HOELSCHER: And we are addressing
4 the E. coli issue in alignment with federal and
5 state regulations. On the wastewater side we are
6 executing the Consent Decree and for any of the E.
7 coli that's coming from stormwater sources we're
8 following our stormwater permit in addressing that
9 issue in the schedule in compliance with those
10 permit requirements.
11 MR. CASTER: So when I walk away here
12 this evening, sir, so I can be clear, so I can go
13 back to the members, I want to know specifically
14 will you address this issue as we have presented it
15 twice now? I presented it on May the 12th. I'm
16 presenting it again.
17 Will MSD address this situation that we
18 consider critical for the safety of the children
19 immediately?
20 MR. HOELSCHER: And the issue is --
21 immediately, no. The issue is being addressed in
22 the schedule because we do have an E. coli and a
23 water quality issue in just about every creek and
24 stream in MSD's boundaries. On the wastewater side
25 the C.D. takes care of any contribution from the
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1 wastewater system with regard to overcharges.
2 The stormwater permitting process attempts to
3 address any issues that come from stormwater runoff.
4 How successful that will be in meeting water quality
5 standards depends because there's a lot of sources
6 of E. coli, such as wildlife, domestic animals,
7 naturally-growing bacteria. There's a lot of
8 sources so we are following the steps prescribed
9 under regulations whether it's stormwater or
10 wastewater.
11 MR. CASTER: Okay. So the answer is no?
12 MR. HOELSCHER: We will not solve it
13 immediately, no.
14 MR. CASTER: You will not?
15 MR. HOELSCHER: No.
16 MR. CASTER: Okay. Well, I have done my
17 duty. I have done my job. I put you -- I put MSD,
18 the executives, on notice. Okay. I have nothing
19 more to say. Thank you, Mr. Stein. Thank you,
20 Mr. Hoelscher.
21 MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mr. Caster. Do
22 the Rate Commissioners have any questions or
23 comments?
24 MR. MAHFOOD: Not at this time.
25 MR. STEIN: I just have a quick one for
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1 Mr. Hoelscher.
2 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, sir.
3 MR. STEIN: You indicated that the
4 District's goal is to maintain a AA bond rating
5 going forward. Can you tell me what the City of St.
6 Louis and St. Louis County have as their bond
7 rating?
8 MR. HOELSCHER: They are both less,
9 right? Lance, help me.
10 MR. LeCOMB: St. Louis County was
11 downgraded from a AAA to a AA last year, I believe,
12 and the City is at a lesser bond rating.
13 MR. HOELSCHER: Our bonding rate is
14 higher than both the County and the City, the County
15 and the City of St. Louis.
16 MR. STEIN: Thank you. Seeing no
17 further questions or comments I would like to thank
18 you all for your participation this evening. The
19 next public hearing, if you have the opportunity to
20 attend if you are so interested, will be June 19th
21 at 9 a.m. at the MSD administrative offices on
22 Market Street.
23 So if you have further questions or comments
24 that will be the time to present those. With that,
25 this public hearing is adjourned. Thank you.
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1 MR. HOELSCHER: I'll remind you, we do
2 have staff here if any of you have any other
3 questions outside of this.
4 (Exhibit Caster 1 was marked for
5 identification by the court reporter.)
6 - - - - -
7 (Hearing concluded at 7:35 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2 I, Suzanne Zes, within and for the State
3 of Missouri, do hereby certify that the witness
4 whose testimony appears in the foregoing deposition
5 was duly sworn by me; the testimony of said witness
6 was taken by me to the best of my ability and
7 thereafter reduced to typewriting under my
8 direction; that I am neither counsel for, related
9 to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action
10 in which this deposition was taken, and further that
11 I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or
12 counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor
13 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome
14 of the action.
15
16 ______________________________
17 Certified Court Reporter
18
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25
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A
AA 16:17,20,24
57:24 84:4,11
AAA 16:16 84:11
AA1 16:17
ability 75:4
79:13 80:9 86:6
able 22:6,7,24
23:6 24:4,5
25:2 30:6 36:23
42:8 60:19
Absolutely 67:1
accept 16:8 38:14
acceptable 54:22
account 11:21
accounting 30:3
accounts 48:12
achieve 78:10
achieved 67:16
acquisition 72:19
Act 55:13 78:11
action 62:20 86:9
86:14
actions 48:3
49:10
activities 14:10
25:3
actual 56:20,20
59:10 80:6
add 77:10 80:18
80:21
added 45:21
80:19
addition 19:18
47:12 64:18
65:3
additional 7:6
10:1 17:12,16
18:1,3 20:6
21:4 31:14 34:8
34:10,13,17
35:1,2 36:7
61:23 67:13
81:8
address 10:10,11
22:7 23:15
26:17 30:22
35:21,22 49:7,8
63:10,17 82:14
82:17 83:3
addressed 63:4
64:5 79:14
82:21
addresses 35:25
addressing 42:19
55:2 63:19 82:3
82:8
adjourned 84:25
administrative
48:7 50:20,23
84:21
adopted 6:7,20
advantage 27:11
advise 65:6
advocate 68:10
advocates 64:20
affect 12:11
afford 70:1
ago 39:19 50:25
51:4,5
agree 45:8 78:6
agreement 76:9
79:2
agrees 77:15
airport 14:20
Alicia 64:11
alignment 82:4
allow 22:3,14
allows 16:25
22:12 23:14
25:7
alternatives 40:8
amended 5:9 6:9
6:11,21
amendment
75:24
Ameren 52:19
American 8:8
amount 24:13
28:15 30:7
31:25 37:20
41:23,25 45:19
59:24 76:1
81:17
amounts 10:17
analysis 31:5
43:2
animal 12:14
animals 83:6
annual 12:19,20
24:8,13 32:16
32:19 33:6,9,23
47:4
annually 58:10
answer 10:4
40:17 83:11
anybody 41:7
53:9
anytime 11:5
apart 14:21
26:21
apologize 39:25
appears 40:3
45:8 86:4
appendices 11:2
57:9
appendix 56:17
56:19 57:4
application 6:23
applications 6:24
7:2
applies 65:25
apply 44:23 45:3
appointed 58:15
appreciate 68:20
approaches
67:24
appropriate
58:25
appropriation
59:10
approval 30:4
Approve 20:4
approved 6:15
6:15,16 13:13
44:12
approximately
13:21 14:18
18:9 22:23
26:15 27:21
29:23 58:5,8
76:5,15 78:7,18
78:19 79:5
April 7:9 64:3
79:2
area 12:9 21:19
21:25 22:20,25
23:4,6,9,10,16
23:17,21 24:2,6
24:10,13,15,25
25:15,15,17,19
26:18 27:4,7,14
27:16 28:1,6
29:6,13,16,20
30:8,11,13,14
30:25 31:1,3,11
31:14,20 32:13
32:14,17 33:3,4
33:6,15,16,19
33:23 46:21
48:13 65:17
66:1 69:18,22
71:6 74:24
79:15
areas 12:2 23:20
28:23 29:9
42:20 46:17,18
65:25 69:16
argumentative
66:4
asked 36:6 37:8
72:15
asking 17:10
24:20 27:18
66:4
aspect 49:16
assets 59:25
assistance 34:21
35:6 65:6
Assocation 53:19
association 6:25
53:20 55:6
63:20 65:15
66:10
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assuming 17:12
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attachments 62:1
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35:15
authored 64:11
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17:24 20:7
21:13 34:9,10
34:13,17 35:1,3
36:8 81:7,8
authorization
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authorize 18:2
20:6 21:4 34:8
34:10 36:7 81:7
authorized 34:17
available 14:6
24:17 30:3
49:16
average 20:10,13
20:17 21:9,15
23:24 24:7,13
32:13,20 33:5,8
33:19,23 34:2
34:11 36:12,16
47:4
awarded 58:19
58:20
a.m 84:21
B
B 21:2
back 10:5 12:7
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Ballwin 53:18
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bar 38:1
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believe 38:13
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benchmark 52:3
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best 25:25 43:3
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better 37:2 58:13
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big 16:5 47:15
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bigger 16:6
biggest 28:4 41:2
bill 11:16,17
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29:14 32:9,19
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billed 31:8
billion 17:3,6,17
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41:20 67:7
77:10,11 79:16
79:24 80:10,11
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bills 32:16
bit 28:14 47:14
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biweekly 58:23
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board 5:15 6:13
13:4,4 35:14,15
45:5
bond 16:16,17,20
16:24,24 17:23
34:10,17 57:24
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bonded 41:18
bonding 17:12
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bonds 17:9 20:4
21:2 58:1,24
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60:10,10,13,16
77:11,14,23
80:25 81:1,3
bonus 48:6 49:10
bonuses 49:21,25
borrow 16:25
36:24 42:1,5,6
58:21 60:18,20
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borrowed 17:23
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borrowing 36:19
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boundaries
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20:2 21:19,23
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27:6 37:7 82:24
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Brian 4:11
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bring 70:1 81:14
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Bruce 69:12
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Builders 6:25
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bullet 55:2 57:24
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busted 26:20
C
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cake 23:11
Calendar 47:9
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call 38:17 76:7
called 8:18 20:3
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capita 76:2,4
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18:6,8 20:8
21:7 27:22,24
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capture 18:17
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70:11 72:20
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cash 17:18,21
36:15 37:2 42:2
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60:16,22 80:25
81:3,10
Caster 2:9,19
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60:5,17 61:3,8
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catches 60:23
caught 74:13
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cause 15:24,25
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cent 22:1,2,22,22
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cents 30:20 74:14
certain 44:18
CERTIFICATE
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Certified 3:6
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Chair 40:16
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Chan 4:7 5:7
change 6:5,22
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changes 5:12 6:5
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choice 41:10
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chunks 60:22
circles 29:2
cities 20:20 40:22
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64:20,22 65:17
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clear 15:3 81:23
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collected 13:12
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collects 32:24
column 20:3
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come 30:2,16
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77:3 80:8 83:3
comes 12:20
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coming 62:11
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comment 8:14,16
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Commerce 4:5
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Commission 4:2
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completed 15:1
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compliance 22:4
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compliment
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Components
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concrete 28:12
condition 20:23
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Conference 7:13
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confirm 77:17,18
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Consent 10:9
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consider 35:16
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considered 44:19
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consists 6:1
constituents
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constitution
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construction
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consultant 6:18
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consultants 50:6
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Consulting 48:8
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contaminant
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context 48:6
continue 16:11
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continuous 40:2
contract 72:13
contracted 72:25
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corner 24:24
correct 43:21
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corrected 72:4
correcting 65:7
cost 14:3 19:7
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22:9,10 25:6,7
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critical 62:3
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cross-section
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current 13:15,15
20:12 21:13,17
21:19 35:8,12
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currently 6:1
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33:3,14,18,20
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customer 11:17
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customers 10:21
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44:5 48:1,18
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cut 34:23
cycle 14:6 17:25
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C.D 73:4 82:25
D
D 2:1,13 5:1
daily 60:20
data 22:12 77:13
date 14:23 15:1
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dated 64:21,23
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day 3:4 15:15
59:4,4 60:20
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December 35:16
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decrease 32:22
Decree 10:9
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55:18,24 56:4
63:8 72:9 78:9
78:15 79:20,22
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Department
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details 19:13
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81:2
devastating
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development
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63:13
difference 75:16
different 10:16
10:17 21:24
37:20,20 81:25
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direct 45:9
directed 64:23
direction 86:8
director 4:11
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disappeared 60:6
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65:3
discharged 11:13
11:13 15:20
18:20
discharging 25:6
disclosure 56:8,8
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discovery 7:5
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distribution
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district 1:8 3:2
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District's 5:17
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District-wide
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divide 31:6
document 2:19
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75:23 79:2
documents 7:15
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doing 16:5 23:24
43:11 48:1,24
52:21 58:16
70:8,10 71:24
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27:23 29:23
30:2,7,15 33:13
33:13,17 36:22
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dots 18:23 19:1
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double 23:5
28:15,19
downgraded
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drain 11:20,23
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drains 11:9
draw 59:12
drawn 59:5
drive 27:6
driven 45:18
driver 47:1
Drivers 57:23
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28:3
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dropping 41:24
drove 27:10
due 35:13
duly 86:5
dump 70:20
Dunn 2:13 71:18
71:19,19,20,21
72:2,10,16,22
73:1,5,10,13
duplicated 28:25
duty 83:17
E
E 2:1 4:1,1 5:1,1
62:25 64:10
82:2,4,6,22
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earlier 28:2
31:22 57:6
72:14
easy 48:20,23
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74:10
effect 34:22
effective 56:6
Eight 61:18,19
either 10:4 15:25
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42:9 44:8 47:25
election 5:10
Eleventh 4:22
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Energy 4:3 7:1
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entire 9:25 12:12
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entitled 37:24
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example 51:3
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Executive 4:11
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Exhibit 2:18 61:4
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exist 25:10 32:11
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existing 10:15
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exited 63:25
exorbitant 46:12
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expanding 16:8
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expenditures
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explain 24:23
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explored 40:8
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facilities 48:9
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Fax 4:24
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21:6 22:4 40:21
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find 10:15,25
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finding 42:21
fine 66:24
first 15:5 21:16
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fiscal 20:11 28:9
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Fishpot 64:8 65:1
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Fitch 16:17
five 13:3,7 16:7
44:7
five-digit 19:1
fix 23:3,5 26:20
26:23,25
fixed 52:24,25
fixing 19:7
flatten 42:3
flip 61:12,16
Flipping 57:22
flooding 23:3,5
23:16 24:18
30:23 69:3
floor 9:17,24
11:9
flow 11:11 16:9
60:22
flows 11:10,12
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folks 10:3,16
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follow 49:6
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21:18 23:17
28:7 29:7 77:8
funds 23:7 61:4
62:10,22 65:25
66:2 78:1
further 66:22
84:17,23 86:10
future 14:7 35:7
36:3,21
fuzzy 80:6
G
G 5:1
Gary 64:22
gather 46:17
general 5:10 48:7
50:20,22 75:15
77:25
gentleman 46:3
58:12
getting 23:2,22
37:5
give 35:13 38:18
42:10 49:19
50:24 64:2 66:9
69:19 71:10
given 7:11 41:3,6
41:10 59:4 62:7
giving 62:18
77:18
glass 18:25
go 10:7,14 11:1
11:10 18:4 20:5
20:15 21:14,23
23:9,20 29:18
31:13,21 34:14
34:18 36:13,25
37:3 39:13 42:3
48:20,23 49:12
49:12 53:25,25
54:7,20 56:12
57:3,14 58:21
58:22 60:11
68:7 69:14 71:7
72:8 73:4,18
75:12 76:15
80:3,3,15,16
82:12
goal 84:4
goes 11:9,23 12:1
15:18,18,19
16:24 28:13
31:3 37:1 45:11
47:5 63:13
64:13 69:17
72:6 74:16
78:17
going 9:19 10:15
11:20 19:14
24:22 27:17
28:22 29:4 39:8
41:16,25 42:17
50:16 51:10
53:23,25 57:1,5
57:14 58:5 64:5
64:6,24 70:16
70:20,23 71:23
72:2,10,11,16
72:23 73:4
74:12 75:23
76:2 77:10 84:5
good 5:2 11:22
13:23 14:2
68:16 80:11
govern 6:8
governance 44:3
Government
20:25 21:6
Governor 53:18
63:19 65:14
grant 17:11
granted 7:2
graphics 24:22
gray 25:14
grease 15:16
great 12:2 65:5
68:18,21
green 23:9,16
24:10 25:15,23
28:1,23 29:6,16
30:25 31:14,19
32:13,14 37:19
38:10
Griesedieck 2:10
67:2,3,4,15,18
67:25 68:3,13
ground 12:1
guess 39:10
guy 48:15
H
half 26:15 28:5
29:23,24,25
30:15 32:23
34:23 35:4
46:20 67:7 75:9
Hall 1:12 3:5
handouts 37:23
happen 31:12
39:8 40:19,20
41:9
happened 14:21
happens 21:9
43:5 47:6 60:25
68:9,9 76:17
hard 51:15
Hartwig 2:14
73:15,16
health 62:4 63:1
healthcare 74:10
hear 9:18 39:8
heard 15:3 67:6
67:6
hearing 1:9,17
2:5 3:1 5:5 8:11
13:14 71:12
84:19,25 85:7
hearings 8:3,10
38:4
held 7:8
help 24:23 26:2
27:14 61:1
63:14 69:19
78:24 84:9
helps 27:9
Hey 69:18
Hi 67:3
higher 84:14
highest 31:7
hiring 50:10
historical 39:11
41:12
hit 14:13
hits 12:1
Hoelscher 2:4
4:11 9:13,15,18
15:12,15 38:16
38:19 39:4
40:16 43:14,24
45:22,25 46:19
46:23 47:7 49:4
49:19,23 50:1,3
50:8,15,24 51:3
51:5,9,16,20,23
52:4,9,13 54:7
54:20,21 55:9
55:15,20,23
56:3,15,19 57:6
57:16,20 58:17
60:3,8,19 61:7
61:8,10,14,19
62:8,17 63:3,7
63:21,24 65:19
65:23 66:4,6,11
67:10,17,20
68:2,4 69:2,21
70:9,17,25 72:1
72:5,13,18,24
73:3,6,12,25
74:3,6,12,21
75:2,6,12,14
76:20,22 77:1,7
77:16,19 78:3,5
78:14,17,23
79:1,7,11,21
80:1,8,11,14,16
80:24 81:6,11
81:13,18,20
82:3,20 83:12
83:15,20 84:1,2
84:8,13 85:1
hold 25:25
home 6:25 39:18
46:5 65:15
homeowner
70:15
homeowners
23:19 53:19
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hopefully 45:13
hospitals 74:9
hours 3:3
house 22:16 43:9
62:11,12,17,19
housekeeping
8:25
huge 47:15
hundred 27:23
48:16,17 49:3
79:17
I
idea 11:19 71:10
identical 14:22
identification
85:5
identified 30:25
69:6
identify 8:20
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MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
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illustration 57:4
immediate 5:8
immediately 42:3
47:6 60:25
82:19,21 83:13
impact 25:4,5,20
32:21 33:1 34:6
35:5 60:12 76:3
76:12
impacts 22:9
26:4 55:3
Impaired 64:9
impartial 45:10
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implement 32:6
37:9 66:1
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52:6
improvement
36:9 37:4 40:23
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16:13 17:18,22
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60:1 75:25
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35:21 51:24
56:3
includes 14:17
including 5:22
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35:6
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Incorporated 4:8
increase 28:15
33:11,22 34:2,3
35:10,12 39:6
39:16 40:9,10
40:19 45:11
46:5,7,16 47:11
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52:20 68:24
69:4,7 70:15
76:14 81:16,17
81:18
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48:19 51:11
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40:2 41:15,25
42:11 46:4,10
53:3
increasing 59:23
incremental
51:19
incur 58:2
incurred 77:9
independent
6:18
INDEX 2:17
indicated 20:4
44:18 56:21
75:8 84:3
indicates 58:4
indicating 34:20
individual 16:1
32:12 59:3
75:18
indulgence 53:24
Industrial 4:3
7:1
industry 16:19
46:11
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10:5 19:15
22:13 38:11
40:17 41:15
42:12 57:10
71:7 76:1
informative
43:25
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initiate 28:7
inlet 26:20
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53:4
inside 19:1
inspecting 19:20
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14:19 19:21
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62:18
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74:10
insufficient 12:3
intercept 18:16
interest 36:23
44:10,11 45:9
53:10,11 58:3,3
58:6,10 59:16
59:19 61:1
77:22,22
interested 5:21
49:9 84:20
86:13
intervene 6:23,24
8:1
Intervenors 7:6
introduce 8:22
introduction 2:3
10:6 54:25
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investigation
25:9
investing 58:14
59:14
Investment 61:4
investments
47:24 58:7
59:17,22
issue 15:9 16:2
24:23 27:3
63:17,19 67:5,9
71:1 76:2,11,14
82:1,4,9,14,20
82:21,23
issues 5:23,23,24
7:14,22 10:3,10
22:13,25 23:11
23:15 24:18
26:1,17 30:23
31:23,24 41:1,7
50:10 55:5,24
62:16 63:3,11
63:24 79:14
83:3
J
J 2:14
Jack 5:2
Jeannie 2:12
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John 4:3
judge 40:21
judgment 39:17
July 8:5 13:11,13
35:11
June 7:10,17
13:12,17 14:12
84:20
Justice 10:10
K
keep 16:2 18:13
40:12 43:11
80:9
keeps 41:16
Kelling 4:4 5:8
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kind 10:6 13:5
20:21 23:2,18
24:22 25:11,13
27:1 37:25 38:8
41:14 49:14
53:2 60:15,18
62:21 64:15,16
69:14 71:8
knew 43:7
know 35:24
45:14 47:14,20
47:23 48:11,14
48:20 49:14
50:18,21,22
51:13 52:16,18
53:1,3,25 54:23
57:13 59:24
68:5,8 69:14,25
79:12 82:13
knowing 49:9
Kramer 64:22
L
L 4:3
labor 5:23
Laclede 52:20
Lance 4:12 84:9
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47:24
largely 45:17,19
Larry 2:8
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78:12
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LeComb 4:12
75:13 84:10
left 37:16
left-hand 20:3
34:7 35:1
left-over 17:24
30:21
legal 6:17
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letter 39:20 64:3
64:6,7,19,21,24
Letters 2:19
let's 31:13 70:24
level 10:20 37:20
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leveraging 60:18
61:5
lieu 40:8
liked 39:11
limit 9:7 47:23
limited 44:22
lines 25:18 26:11
list 53:11 64:9
69:13
listed 8:19 64:9
74:7
listing 73:21
litigation 4:22
78:21 79:5
little 18:25 24:7
25:23 26:11
28:14,19 39:24
64:13 67:5
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79:13 80:6
live 21:25 22:20
23:9 24:2,6,10
27:3 29:6,20
32:13 33:15
40:4 47:25 67:4
Lloyd 64:11
local 12:1 22:4,9
25:6 27:7 50:10
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37:15 46:21
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63:22,25 72:4
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look 10:25 19:5
19:12,14 20:20
21:1,24,24 34:7
36:3 39:14
42:15 44:6 46:2
48:11 51:8,15
52:16 60:2,4
67:10,11 69:5
69:12 71:10
75:20
looked 14:22
29:3 48:12
50:21 51:16
53:13 73:10
looking 16:14
17:3,18,22
27:13 32:5
42:16,19 49:15
56:7,17 67:8
74:15
looks 25:14
53:10 70:6
Lori 4:4 5:8
lot 14:1 39:2
40:22 41:18
44:1 50:7 52:25
83:5,7
Louis 1:8 3:1 4:5
4:23 5:3 6:3,25
8:7,8 22:21
29:21,25 43:8
84:6,6,10,15
love 39:23
low 34:21 35:5
70:3
M
M 3:6
machines 11:10
magnifying
18:25
Mahanta 4:7 5:8
Mahfood 4:6
8:23 83:24
mailing 35:22
49:8
Main 1:13 3:5
maintain 16:15
16:20 23:1,6,8
24:5,16 25:2
26:14,19 28:17
28:21 29:17
37:13,17 47:2
65:11 66:2
68:23 78:11
84:4
maintained
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maintaining
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57:24
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16:10 17:8
19:17,18 23:13
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37:10 46:25
65:13,14,15,16
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47:24
management
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63:12
Manager 4:13
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14:18,19 19:20
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map 18:22,22
19:10 21:18,18
25:1,16,24
28:24 37:15,19
38:10 69:12
75:7,19
March 6:9
marked 2:18
85:4
Market 49:12
84:22
match 70:4
materiality 48:15
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MCE 64:11
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23:19 32:12
45:14 46:11
47:13,17 62:5
66:3
meaning 65:14
74:9,24
means 80:21
measure 11:19
11:23
measures 14:3
Medicaid 53:1
meet 15:4 22:3
26:6 32:3 46:1
meeting 83:4
member 5:3 8:23
15:10,14 53:20
members 5:7 6:2
50:25 53:8
82:13
membership
44:14,23 53:12
mentioned 31:22
40:24 50:5
51:25 57:6
63:17 72:14
77:21 78:10
Meramec 11:14
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Metropolitan 1:8
3:1 5:3
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18:11 19:22,23
19:23 25:21
26:14
million 13:18,21
14:11,13,14
17:7,8,15,19,24
17:25 18:3 20:6
27:21,23 28:10
28:13 29:7,23
30:15 36:8 58:1
58:6,8,10,14
59:18,19,21
60:1,5 67:6,8
67:14 75:9
77:12,21,22,22
79:17
millions 79:10,12
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79:23 80:13,23
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minutes 9:6 54:1
66:14
missing 61:22
mission 45:25
Mississippi 11:14
15:20 21:20
Missouri 1:14
3:5,7 4:3,6 7:1
11:14 15:20
21:21 55:13
64:4 78:12 86:3
Missouri's 64:9
mistake 39:22
mistakenly 43:18
MO 4:23
modified 6:15
money 10:17
14:5 16:25
17:23 18:6
24:17 26:13
30:7,8,16 31:2
31:25 36:24
41:20 42:2,5,7
58:14,17 59:4,7
69:19 71:23
monies 22:3
26:18,19,23,25
27:1 29:9 30:4
30:21 58:24
59:1 70:1 77:2
monitor 22:10
25:7
month 20:13,16
20:17,22 21:14
21:15 22:1 32:8
36:13,16,17
39:13 74:15
monthly 11:15
17:20 20:17
36:12 58:22
73:22
months 11:18
Moody's 16:17
mosquito 65:5
move 59:13,20
61:25 62:1
MSD 4:2 5:6,15
6:1,12,13,17,19
7:3,4 10:1,3,9
11:6,8,16,24
12:10,19,23,25
12:25 13:2,8,17
13:20 15:2,3
16:14,16,21
17:10 20:5,21
21:3 22:2 23:7
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25:19,22 26:5
26:13 27:11
30:16 32:21,24
33:20 34:3,12
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72:11 75:1 76:4
76:17,20,25
77:1,8,9,11,23
77:25 78:7,10
78:25 79:23
81:6,8 82:17
83:17 84:21
MSD's 9:22 10:7
10:21 15:2
16:23 20:1
21:18,22 23:24
24:21 26:16
27:15 38:14
42:24 45:25
68:6 69:25
76:22 77:20
82:24
multi 74:8
multi-family
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20:1 21:19
26:16 27:6 37:7
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municipality
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N
N 2:1 4:1 5:1
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naturally 12:8
45:2
naturally-grow...
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near 14:20 22:21
29:21,25 47:9
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necessary 9:8
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64:15 70:5
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30:20 40:23
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68:25
negotiated 79:16
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neighbors 68:21
neither 86:8
never 16:24
30:12 46:23
69:23
nevermind 78:6
new 25:4 29:19
30:4,6 31:3,20
63:13 69:22
76:14
news 13:23
nice 39:20
non-profit 5:25
normal 47:23
north 4:8,22
21:20 22:21
29:21,25
note 37:23 54:19
notice 6:5 8:6
24:24 38:4 44:3
45:17 83:18
Notices 8:9
November 5:10
number 17:13
18:25 19:2 29:1
29:2 39:6 44:22
61:14 75:8 80:3
80:12
numbers 19:5
39:2 41:13
49:15
O
O 5:1
obvious 71:22
obviously 11:4
28:17 50:19
occur 12:8 14:3
67:23
October 35:16
offer 41:10 42:8
54:16 69:23
70:25 75:23
offered 49:24
officer 9:7
offices 84:21
oh 39:21 48:16
56:1,5
okay 9:19 45:7
45:14 46:2,13
46:22 48:17
49:22 50:2 51:2
51:22 52:15
54:21,22 55:11
56:5,16 57:22
58:16 59:13
61:10,25 62:15
63:18 66:25
67:15 68:13
70:9,14 71:15
72:2 73:13,17
74:6 77:9,16,19
78:15,20 80:14
83:11,16,18
older 40:24
omissions 54:12
56:11
once 37:4 58:23
ones 31:8
one-for-one
28:18
on-the-record
8:2
open 9:24
operate 26:13,19
27:9 28:20
operated 44:25
operates 27:12
operating 18:7
28:9 48:2,4,5,9
52:8,9
operation 5:22
14:8,9,15 17:7
19:17,18 23:12
27:1,4,20 28:10
30:17,20 37:10
46:24
operational 6:7
78:1
opportunity 6:22
7:11 8:14 10:19
35:24 37:3
38:18 39:1
40:14 54:4
66:15 84:19
opposed 16:6
50:10 53:7
optics 53:8
option 19:13
20:4 21:2
options 19:25
order 8:18 9:4
23:17 27:19
38:17 40:21
43:9 56:6
org 50:21
organization
44:14,19
organizations
5:16,19,21,22
5:25,25 6:2
8:20 12:24 38:2
44:9,22,25
original 2:23
79:15
originally 13:23
18:14
Osterhoff 2:6
38:23,25 39:5
43:13
ought 58:13
outcome 45:9
52:22 86:13
outside 85:3
outstanding
77:11
overall 32:22
33:1 34:1 47:22
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overflow 14:24
overflows 15:21
15:25 18:11,16
18:17 63:5,8
overhead 48:9,13
overview 9:21
owe 39:22
owner 34:2
owners 32:13
owns 23:7 26:13
O&M 31:18
P
P 4:1,1 5:1
package 56:17
57:15,18 61:22
61:24
page 2:2 23:20
54:25 56:12
61:12,16,22,25
62:2 67:11
73:21,25
paid 29:12 31:19
81:1
palace 49:13
paragraph 64:6
64:7,25
parameters
16:22
Pardon 55:22
part 16:5 18:13
44:7 46:15
47:12 55:7 59:1
partial 63:9
participant 7:20
participants 7:10
participant's
7:24
participate 7:19
8:2
participation
84:18
particular 31:9
57:4 65:17
76:11
parties 7:5 86:9
86:12
parts 11:3 18:15
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26:12 40:23
57:2
pass 29:18
passage 30:5
passed 75:3
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patiently 66:20
Paul 2:9 53:17
paved 12:5 28:12
pay 17:17,21
20:2,13 22:1,22
22:23 23:10
24:10,13 27:14
29:14 32:25
34:11,23 36:9
36:14,22,23
37:2 39:12
40:13 41:11
42:2,7 47:9
70:19 71:25
paying 20:22
21:25 22:2
23:21,25 24:2
27:4 31:14,15
32:17 33:4,6,9
33:14,20,24
36:17 39:14
59:15 74:14,14
payment 76:17
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peak 37:1 42:16
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people 32:25
38:17 45:10
52:19,23,25
53:24 68:11
77:5
percent 14:24
18:5,5 20:16
28:15,19 32:23
33:12 34:3 39:9
39:16 40:2
45:23,24 46:5,7
46:7,8,10,10
47:11,12,20
49:17,18 76:14
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percentages
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percenters 49:3
performance
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period 8:16
13:11,22 17:4
17:14 21:8 42:5
50:11 72:3,4
73:1 78:19 79:6
permit 8:14
55:17 63:10
82:8,10
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permitting 8:12
26:5 83:2
person 6:21
42:10
personal 39:13
44:21
persons 7:18
perspective
39:11 47:17
pertaining 62:16
Pfarr 2:11 68:15
68:16 69:16
70:7,14,19
71:15
phase 63:15
picking 45:4
piece 79:18
pieces 57:2
pink 24:25
pipe 15:17 26:21
26:23,24 64:18
65:2,4,8,9
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place 37:22 46:24
50:12 63:13,14
67:19
plan 5:9,15 16:21
19:7,8,20 27:17
27:17
planned 7:9
13:23 59:7
planning 29:6
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plant 15:19
plants 11:12
14:16 18:20
19:19
playing 64:14
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68:14,17 71:15
71:16 73:14,16
73:20,21 75:14
76:6 79:19
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Thanks 38:25
Theerman 2:7
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therefor 7:25
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thing 11:6 45:16
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60:4 69:3 75:2
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60:12,21 68:17
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thought 45:12
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three 33:13 39:5
three-tenths
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throw 79:18
thrown 39:2
tied 81:1
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time 1:17 8:9 9:8
11:19 14:9
16:12 27:24
30:12 38:21
41:3,4,7 47:23
50:11,16 51:7
51:10,15 54:7
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timing 47:16
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today 15:15 40:9
65:16 73:7
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tonight 5:6 8:11
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35:21 38:9,12
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top 28:23 46:13
47:20 67:7
topics 10:3
total 17:8,13 18:3
34:6 45:19 46:8
58:9 72:6 75:18
totaling 17:6
30:15
tough 39:3
Town 67:4
track 22:12
training 53:10
PUBLIC HEARING 5/27/2015
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transcript 2:23
treasurer 76:7
treat 11:8 16:8
treated 11:12
15:19
treatment 11:12
14:16 15:19
18:20 19:19
trustee 69:18,23
trustees 5:16
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tunnels 18:12,18
turn 43:8 54:19
66:13,19,21
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Twelve 46:10
Twenty-four
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twice 82:15
two 10:23 11:6
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40:17 44:25
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type 62:13
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typewriting 86:7
typically 62:10
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76:3 78:22
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unheard 46:11
unintentional
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United 40:22
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52:22
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un-restrict 30:6
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usage 11:18
use 17:16 50:17
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voters 10:19 20:1
20:3,5 21:2
24:20 36:6 56:9
57:1,14 76:1,12
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workable 69:20
PUBLIC HEARING 5/27/2015
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worked 43:7
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yesterday 76:8
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17th 7:10
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19th 84:20
1900 14:19
1954 63:22
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20 77:22
20th 6:10 7:9
2000 5:10 12:22
2005 77:20
2006 77:13
2007 63:20 65:15
78:24,24
2010 80:12
2012 79:3
2013 13:16 77:13
2013-2016 56:13
2014 58:4 64:21
2015 1:10 3:3 6:4
6:9,10,12 7:3,9
7:10,17 8:4,5
9:23 27:24
35:10,11 38:6
2016 13:11,13,17
14:12 20:12
21:11 34:11
36:5,5,16 47:9
67:21 68:1
2017 17:6 21:11
27:22
2020 13:12 17:6
20:16 21:15
27:22,24 34:13
34:19 36:16
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2021 41:22
2023 37:1 42:17
72:7 79:24 80:7
2024 41:22 42:17
2033 72:6 73:4,5
22 28:13
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23-year 41:5
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314.644.1334
4:24
314.644.2191
4:23
360 19:23
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4th 6:9
4.7 80:10,11,25
PUBLIC HEARING 5/27/2015
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MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
415 17:18
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47 29:22 77:22
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60,000 19:20
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