HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 122 - Transcript of May 19, 2015 Public Hearing HEARING 5/19/2015
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8 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT
9 PUBLIC HEARING
10 MAY 19, 2015
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12 CARONDELET PARK REC COMPLEX
13 930 HOLLY HILLS AVENUE
14 ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI
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17 (Hearing start time, 6:09 p.m.)
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1 I N D E X
2 PAGE
3 Introduction by Mr. Tomazi 5
4 Presentation by Mr. Hoelscher 9
5 Public Hearing Session
6 V. Overmann 35
7 Bob Dittrich 36
8 Tom Villa 38
9 Patrick Dwyer 43
10 Conclusion 48
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14 (No exhibits marked.)
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1 PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS
2 SEWER DISTRICT, produced and examined on May 19,
3 2015, between the hours of 6:09 in the evening and
4 7:03 in the evening of that day, at the Carondelet
5 Park Rec Complex, 930 Holly Hills Avenue, St. Louis,
6 Missouri, before Suzanne M. Zes, a Certified Court
7 Reporter of the State of Missouri.
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1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2 For the MSD Rate Commission:
3 George Tomazi
The Engineers' Club of St. Louis
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Mike O'Connell III
5 Greater St. Louis Labor Council
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10 Also Present:
11 Brian Hoelscher
Executive Director
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The Court Reporter:
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Suzanne Zes
22 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
711 North Eleventh Street
23 St. Louis, MO 63101
314.644.2191
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 MR. TOMAZI: Let us begin our public
3 hearing this evening. Good evening, I'm George
4 Tomazi. I'm a member of the MSD Rate Commission and
5 I'll be presiding over the public hearing this
6 evening.
7 With me tonight is Mr. Mike O'Connell, who is
8 an MSD Rate Commissioner also. Mike has served
9 for -- I think this is at least his second time, so
10 he has done a great job.
11 The Charter Plan of the District was amended
12 at a general election on November 7th, 2000, and
13 established the Rate Commission to review and make
14 recommendations to the District regarding changes in
15 wastewater rates, stormwater rates and tax rates
16 proposed by the District.
17 The Charter Plan requires the MSD Board of
18 Trustees to select organizations to ensure a fair
19 representation of all users of the District's
20 services on the Rate Commission. The Rate
21 Commission representative organizations are to
22 represent commercial-industrial users, residential
23 users and other organizations interested in the
24 operation of the District, including organizations
25 focusing on environmental issues, labor issues,
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1 socio-economic issues, community-neighborhood
2 organizations and other nonprofit organizations.
3 The MSD Rate Commission currently consists of 15
4 members from organizations and institutions
5 throughout St. Louis City and St. Louis County.
6 On February 26, 2015, the Rate Commission
7 received a Rate Change Notice proposing changes to
8 the District's wastewater rates and stormwater
9 revenues. The Rate Commission adopted Operational
10 Rules and a Procedural Schedule to govern the
11 proceedings on March 4, 2015.
12 Under the Procedural Schedule adopted by the
13 Rate Commission, which was extended by the MSD Board
14 of Trustees on May 14th, 2015 at the request of the
15 MSD Rate Commission, the MSD Rate Commission has
16 until August 10th, 2015, to review and make a
17 recommendation to the MSD Board of Trustees as to
18 whether the proposed rate should be approved, not
19 approved or modified with suggested changes and then
20 approved.
21 The MSD Rate Commission has engaged legal
22 counsel and a rate consultant independent of those
23 used by the MSD staff.
24 Under procedural rules adopted by the Rate
25 Commission, as amended, any person affected by the
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1 Rate Change Proposal had an opportunity to submit an
2 application to intervene in these proceedings.
3 Applications to intervene have been filed by the
4 Home Builders Association of St. Louis and Missouri
5 Industrial Energy Consumers. These applications
6 have been granted.
7 Since February 26, 2015, the MSD Rate
8 Commission has received testimony from MSD staff.
9 The parties have also engaged in discovery requests.
10 Additional testimony from the Intervenors and the
11 Rate Consultant will be filed.
12 A Prehearing Conference for the purpose of
13 identifying any issues raised by the Rate Setting
14 Documents and the prepared testimony previously
15 submitted will be conducted on the record. All
16 persons submitting testimony may participate in the
17 Prehearing Conference and each participant in the
18 Prehearing Conference shall submit a Prehearing
19 Conference Report describing the issues raised by
20 the Rate Setting Documents and the prepared
21 testimony, together with a brief description of such
22 participant's position, if any, on each issue and
23 the rationale therefor.
24 Ratepayers who do not wish to intervene are
25 permitted to participate in these on-the-record
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1 public hearings conducted in nine sessions, which
2 began on May the 11, 2015, and will conclude on
3 June 9th, 2015.
4 The Rate Commission published a Public Notice
5 regarding these proceedings in the St. Louis
6 Post-Dispatch and in the St. Louis American. These
7 Notices contained the time, dates, and location of
8 each of the conferences and hearings.
9 The Public Hearing Session tonight is for the
10 purpose of permitting the District to present its
11 Wastewater and Stormwater Rate Change Proposal and
12 to permit any ratepayer an opportunity to comment.
13 We will begin with a presentation by the District,
14 followed by a public comment period.
15 Those wishing to speak should sign in on the
16 sheet provided and will be called on in the order of
17 the names listed thereon. Each ratepayer should
18 identify themselves and any organizations
19 represented by such ratepayer.
20 There are a few housekeeping rules before we
21 begin. If you wish to present testimony please sign
22 in on the clipboard over by the door on your left
23 side. Speakers will be recognized in the order in
24 which they sign up.
25 Each ratepayer may have a maximum of ten
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1 minutes to speak regarding the proposed rate change.
2 As the presiding officer, I can limit or expand the
3 time, should I deem it necessary.
4 Restrooms are located out the door to your
5 right and up the hall.
6 Are there any questions regarding this
7 procedure this evening? Is the District ready to
8 proceed?
9 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, sir, we are.
10 MR. TOMAZI: Please proceed.
11 MR. HOELSCHER: Thank you, Mr. Tomazi.
12 My name is Brian Hoelscher. I'm the executive
13 director for MSD. Tonight we are going to present
14 an overview of the Rate Proposal submitted by MSD
15 staff to MSD's Rate Commission.
16 As Mr. Tomazi mentioned, at the end of the
17 presentation the Rate Commission will open the floor
18 for any comments that the public would like to put
19 on the record for the Rate Commission process. They
20 will then close the meeting and if you have
21 questions or comments on other things involving MSD
22 we have plenty of staff here that can either answer
23 your questions or we can get back to you and we will
24 provide that service after the meeting is over.
25 There are two components to the wastewater
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1 request -- to the request we're putting in. One has
2 to do with wastewater. Remember and understand our
3 wastewater program is primarily driven by a Consent
4 Decree that we signed based on the lawsuit filed by
5 the EPA and the Department of Justice. The work
6 we're proposing is to meet the requirements of that
7 Consent Decree.
8 On the stormwater side, MSD is looking to
9 change the way it funds stormwater in the area.
10 Approximately one half of our public storm sewer
11 system does not currently receive any funding and,
12 therefore, is not currently being operated or
13 maintained. The proposal is to find a way to
14 provide a District-wide level of service for all of
15 the storm sewers, public storm sewers located within
16 MSD's municipal boundaries.
17 This proposal is a summation of the Rate
18 Proposal. If you want to read the actual Rate
19 Proposal and some of the detail behind the numbers
20 and information I give, you can go on our website,
21 w-w-w dot M-S-D dot com, go to the Rate Commission
22 and the full Rate Proposal is there if you wish to
23 read it.
24 Some things to remember about MSD, we are two
25 utilities. One, we provide wastewater service.
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1 This is collecting and treating water from sinks and
2 bathrooms and showers, dishwashers, laundry, clothes
3 washers, those types of things. That wastewater
4 goes into pipes, travels miles to our treatment
5 plants, is treated according to permit requirements
6 from the EPA and MDNR and discharged to the local
7 rivers, mostly the Missouri, Mississippi and Meramec
8 Rivers.
9 That service is funded by a monthly charge
10 from MSD's customers based on monthly potable water
11 usage. So if you receive a monthly bill from MSD
12 you're currently receiving wastewater service and
13 that monthly bill pays just for the wastewater
14 component of the service we provide.
15 We are also a stormwater utility. If rain
16 that falls on the ground doesn't soak in or
17 discharge directly to a creek and stream, we provide
18 a public storm sewer system, inlets, manholes, storm
19 sewers and, in some cases, paved concrete channels
20 in creeks in order to help convey that stormwater
21 and get it to the creeks and streams where it's
22 originally intended.
23 In addition, we are required to serve as a
24 regulator, to help control the pollutants that are
25 in the stormwater runoff that takes pollutants from
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1 yards and streets and those types of things and
2 impacts the water quality of the creeks and streams.
3 We do have a responsibility to provide policing for
4 that.
5 Stormwater service, there's a small tax on
6 everybody's monthly wastewater bill but it is mostly
7 paid for through your annual property tax bill.
8 Those are revenues that MSD collects for stormwater.
9 So as we go through this proposal I will let
10 you know wastewater revenues can only be spent on
11 wastewater issues. Stormwater revenues, which are
12 on your property tax, can only be spent on
13 stormwater issues.
14 Quick review of the Rate Commission. It was
15 established in 2000 by a vote of our stakeholders in
16 our Charter change to provide public input on how
17 MSD sets its rates. There are 15 organizations that
18 are represented on the Rate Commission. They review
19 all the changes that MSD staff proposes. They will
20 then send a recommendation to our Board of Trustees
21 and our Board of Trustees, in public sessions, will
22 review the proposals from the Rate Commission and
23 come to a final determination as to how we should
24 proceed and what we should present to the
25 ratepayers.
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1 This Rate Proposal covers our rates from
2 July 1, 2016 to June 30th, 2020.
3 First, I want to cover the current wastewater
4 rates. We are currently under a Rate Proposal that
5 was approved by the Rate Commission for our rates
6 from 2013 to 2016. Under that program we had
7 planned on starting $971 million of capital work.
8 Right now it appears we're guessing that by
9 June 30th, 2016, we will start at just about
10 $890 million worth of capital work addressing those
11 Consent Decree issues.
12 We are on time and we are under budget. A
13 lot of it has to do with some efficiency in the
14 bidding process. Some of it is some very low prices
15 we have been getting. That difference, about
16 $80 million difference from what we asked for and
17 what we spent, gets rolled into the next four years
18 and is only spent on capital work.
19 As far as the operation and maintenance, in
20 the last cycle we asked for $716 million of revenues
21 to operate and maintain the treatment plants, pump
22 stations and all the pipe that MSD is responsible
23 for. Right now we're projecting we'll spend
24 $700 million and, therefore, also our operation and
25 maintenance we will be under budget and on time.
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1 Some of the wastewater operations, besides
2 plants and pump stations, includes inspecting 62,000
3 manholes, rehabilitating 6600 manholes, lining 1900
4 miles of pipe and probably more importantly as a
5 measure as to what all this work has resulted in is
6 the overflows that come out of our system during wet
7 weather that either discharge to the community -- to
8 the rivers and streams or else back-up into
9 basements.
10 We compared two similar storms that were
11 separated years apart to try and measure that
12 effectiveness. Based on that calculation, we're
13 estimating that as of today we've reduced by about
14 66 percent the number of basement backups that occur
15 due to overcharged systems.
16 Proposed wastewater rates, what is the
17 driver? Again, it is regulatory requirements coming
18 out of our Consent Decree. There are three ways we
19 are addressing the overflows in the sanitary system
20 which either discharge to the environment or result
21 in basement backups.
22 First one is get the rain out. MSD has
23 overflows when it rains. If it is not raining, like
24 today, unless somebody flushes grease down our pipes
25 and blocks them up, or in case we have a failure of
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1 a pipe, all the wastewater on a day like this goes
2 in the pipes, goes to the treatment plants, gets
3 treated, discharged to the creeks and there are no
4 overflows either in basements or the environment.
5 The problem is when it rains. Therefore, one
6 of the main ways we're going to -- the main ways
7 we're going to approach reducing those overflows is
8 to get the rain out, intercept the stormwater before
9 it ends up in those sewers. You got places where
10 stormwater is never supposed to be in the system
11 that's getting there and other places where we have
12 to reduce the amount that's getting in there.
13 That is the cheapest way for us to approach
14 the issue. If we were to build a bigger system we
15 suspect our program would be four to five times
16 larger in cost if we built a bigger system. It's
17 more cost-effective to get the stormwater out of the
18 system.
19 There's repair and maintenance, make sure we
20 repair and maintain the existing system so it
21 continues to last for a long time. And there are
22 some places where we'll have to build system
23 improvements in order to change the way the system
24 is layed out.
25 We want to do this in a financially
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1 responsible manner to keep MSD stable. Right now
2 MSD's bond ratings are AAA with S&P, AA1 and AA plus
3 with Fitch and Moody's. The plan we've layed out,
4 the financing plan for long-term is set so that we
5 never go below the parameters and that we plan on
6 never going below a AA bond rating for borrowing
7 money in order to complete the program.
8 When does the wastewater program -- what does
9 this proposal include? Includes the start of
10 $1.5 billion of capital work over those four years.
11 The start of those projects are shown on this chart
12 here from 2017 through 2020, so coming to a
13 four-year program of $1.5 billion.
14 We're estimating $736 million in revenues are
15 needed to operate and maintain the stormwater
16 system, the sanitary system, the wastewater system
17 over those four years, as well as there will be
18 $477 million of debt service. This comes from a
19 previous bond issued, paying off that interest, as
20 well as anticipated bond sales, assuming the voters
21 approve it, that will occur over the four-year
22 period from 2017 to 2020 as well.
23 How we plan on paying for the capital work.
24 We plan on using -- to pay for the $1.5 billion,
25 just over 400 million of it we're proposing we pay
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1 directly from the rates you pay us. We'll take that
2 cash and immediately build some improvements. The
3 rest will be bond financed by selling an additional
4 $1.1 billion worth of bonds. That comes from
5 $200 million left over in the last rate cycle, plus
6 a request for the ratepayers to authorize an
7 additional $900 million in bonding authority. That
8 would bring our total debt authorization to
9 $2.62 billion.
10 And the thing to remember, any borrowed money
11 has to be spent on capital projects. It cannot be
12 used for our operating budget.
13 What do you get during those four years?
14 We'll start 600 projects. About 230 of those will
15 be construction projects. We'll remove 39 overflows
16 and we'll start the design of 24 miles of storage
17 conveyance tunnels. There are some overflows where
18 getting the water out before it enters the system is
19 not the solution. Some places we will have to
20 capture flows, store them in a tunnel or a large
21 underground storage, wait until the storm is over
22 and then we will feed them through the treatment
23 plant so that those flows can be treated.
24 Where the projects are, are on this map. I
25 know you can see a lot of blue dots. Within each
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1 one of those blue dots is a number. That number
2 refers to a project and there's information
3 regarding what that project solves, what we're going
4 to do, how much it costs and when it would get done.
5 That information is available here tonight.
6 If you look over on the left-hand side there's a
7 copy of that map that you see right here. You can
8 read those numbers. In our Rate Proposal there's a
9 large spreadsheet describing each one of those
10 projects. We have a copy of that spreadsheet over
11 here on the table.
12 So you can look at that tonight or if you
13 went online and looked at our Rate Proposal there
14 you can see all this detailed information as well,
15 which describes every project we plan on doing for
16 the next four years. That's what the reference is
17 at the bottom. You see, "Appendix 7.2.2." So if
18 you have a copy of the presentation and went to that
19 in our Rate Proposal you would find the information
20 I described in our Rate Proposal.
21 The work we're planning on getting done,
22 besides the operation and maintenance of all the
23 treatment plants and pump stations in the District,
24 is to inspect 60,000 manholes, rehabilitate 6,000
25 manholes, inspect 1600 miles of sewers with
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1 closed-circuit TV, clean 3800 miles of sewers, and
2 rehabilitate 360 miles of sewers.
3 How we pay for that is going to be up to the
4 ratepayers. If you look at the column on the left
5 called Option A, in that scenario we will be
6 presenting to the ratepayers a request to approve
7 $900 million of additional bond authorization.
8 If we do get -- if the vote is yes, then we
9 will start $1.5 billion worth of capital work over a
10 four-year period. What you see on the chart is the
11 average single-family wastewater bill. 2016 it's
12 just over $40 per month and you see it goes up about
13 10 percent per year, ending at just over $60 per
14 month on average in 2020.
15 The right-hand side is Option B and, again,
16 this will be up to the voters. The voters may
17 decide not to authorize the use of bonds. That is
18 their choice. If they decide not to we still have
19 to start $1.5 billion worth of capital work over the
20 next four years to comply with the Consent Decree
21 with the Federal Government and the Department of
22 Justice.
23 You see the resulting impact on the average
24 family bill, just over $40 in 16. The first year of
25 this rate cycle is 17, $44.72. That's the same
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1 because we're using carried-over bonding authority
2 but after that we pay for everything with cash,
3 which results in an average monthly bill of 96 per
4 month in 2020.
5 Where does that put us nationwide? Depends
6 on where you live in the country but utilities of
7 our size are paying between 15 and $135 for
8 wastewater service right now.
9 Stormwater service. I want to explain first
10 the stormwater service that's being received and,
11 second, the changes we plan on making.
12 This is a map of the District's municipal
13 boundaries. To the right is the Mississippi River.
14 To the north is the Missouri River. To the south is
15 the Meramec River as it winds through our boundaries
16 and out to the west that line is about Highway 109
17 in Wildwood. Those are the limits of the District's
18 boundaries.
19 If you live in the red area, right now you
20 pay a 24 cent per month fee if you're a wastewater
21 customer, plus a 2 cent property tax. With that
22 amount of revenues MSD is able to meet its
23 regulatory requirements, state, federal and our own
24 requirements. We're also able to collect data on
25 stormwater issues and provide emergency response if
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1 necessary. And, for us, an emergency is if creek
2 erosion is ready to drop a house into a creek.
3 That's the kind of emergency we're talking about.
4 So we can take care of those regulatory
5 issues but we do not maintain the public storm sewer
6 system. It is ours but we do not maintain it in
7 that area. We also cannot do any projects to
8 resolve stormwater issues.
9 If you live in the yellow area, which is the
10 City of St. Louis and near northwest and South
11 County, you pay a 24 cent per month fee on your
12 wastewater bill, a 2 cent property tax, as well as a
13 7 cent property tax.
14 With those revenues we're able to do all the
15 regulatory work described in the red area. We can
16 also pretty well maintain the public storm sewer
17 system. In the City of St. Louis that's mostly the
18 inlets, storm sewers as you get to the combined
19 system and some open channels.
20 What we are not able to do is do any projects
21 to fix stormwater problems such as erosion or
22 flooding. There are no funds to do that.
23 Finally, if you live in the green area, which
24 is just outside the city limits approximately and
25 out to about 270, you pay a 24 cent per month fee, 2
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1 cent property tax, 7 cent property tax and up to
2 another 10 cent property tax.
3 With that, we're able to do all the
4 regulatory work that we do District-wide. We are
5 able to maintain the public storm sewer system and
6 we can, in that area, do projects to resolve
7 stormwater issues such as flooding or erosion
8 issues.
9 How much does that cost the average customer?
10 The average single-family home appraised at $142,000
11 within our boundaries. Based on that, if you live
12 in the red area, paying that 24 cent fee and 2 cent
13 property tax, the average customer is paying us $8 a
14 year for stormwater service if you're in the red
15 area.
16 If you're in the yellow area paying the 24
17 cent fee, the 2 cent tax, 7 cent tax, where we're
18 able to maintain the public storm sewer system, the
19 average person in that area is paying us $26 per
20 year on their annual property tax bill.
21 If you live in the green area you pay the 24
22 cent fee, 2 cent tax, 7 cent property tax and the 10
23 cent property tax. Those folks pay us an average of
24 $53 a year for stormwater service and they get
25 everything we can offer right now, which is
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1 regulatory work, maintenance to the public storm
2 sewer system and projects to resolve stormwater
3 issues such as erosion and flooding.
4 So quick recap of getting to what it is that
5 MSD is looking to resolve. That 2 cent property
6 tax, if you notice, is located throughout the entire
7 District. We use that to comply with our regulatory
8 requirements. Those requirements come from the EPA,
9 MDNR and it ensures we're able to meet those.
10 Most of it goes towards our plan review and
11 permitting, when somebody redevelops or has issues,
12 also inspecting those projects when they're
13 completed and then policing them afterwards to make
14 sure all of those facilities are properly running.
15 We do provide complaint investigation so we
16 understand all the stormwater problems that are in
17 the entire District and, again, we can respond to
18 emergency responses. That 2 cent property tax is
19 the only tax that's collected District-wide.
20 What does that pay for? In this map there,
21 we have grayed out the yellow and green area. We
22 want to talk about just the red area, just kind of
23 the area out around the outside. On there you will
24 see blue lines. Those blue lines represent 1,154
25 miles of creeks that are in the area. It also
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1 represents 2,638 best management practices in the
2 area.
3 These are mostly in place to make sure we
4 don't have an increase in runoff when somebody
5 redevelops. A big part of them have to do with the
6 quality of the creeks in the area, preventing
7 pollutants from stormwater runoff entering the
8 creeks and degrading them and polluting them. It
9 includes a monitoring of the condition of all those
10 creeks so we understand the current condition and
11 what the pollutant load is in them right now.
12 That work is all funded in the 2 cent
13 property tax. It takes care of all the work we have
14 to do District-wide and it's in pretty good shape.
15 The next slide is representative of the work
16 we do not currently have funding for. Those are all
17 black lines. They represent 1,363 miles of storm
18 sewers that are MSD's. They are the public storm
19 sewer system that does not receive any funding and
20 does not receive any operation or maintenance.
21 If there is something wrong with an inlet
22 that isn't causing an immediate safety issue we do
23 not do any work on it. If a storm sewer opens up
24 and starts causing a sinkhole in somebody's
25 backyard, we cannot fix that storm sewer. If the
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1 discharge from storm sewer to creek causes erosion,
2 we can't do anything about it. There are not
3 currently funds in place to address that.
4 So we've got two issues. One, no funding for
5 about one half of our public storm sewer system and
6 the other piece is those folks who are then living
7 in that area also are not paying for the operation
8 and maintenance of any of the District's storm
9 sewers within its boundaries. If you drive on a
10 local road or street anywhere within MSD's
11 boundaries those are served by MSD's public storm
12 sewers and you're benefiting from us having that
13 system in place.
14 What we are proposing. Our proposal will
15 result in operation and maintenance costs of
16 approximately $91 million over the four-year period
17 from 2017 to 2020 and will also allow us for the
18 first time to do six years or a hundred million
19 dollars worth of work on stormwater problems
20 District-wide.
21 Again, the main driver is to make sure that
22 we can provide maintenance to the public storm sewer
23 system, which is MSD's responsibility throughout its
24 entire municipal boundaries. It also, again, does
25 initiate six years of funding for stormwater
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1 projects District-wide.
2 I'll touch first on operating costs. In
3 Fiscal 16 the cost is about $16 million a year,
4 that's what we're coming up on, that's in the
5 current rate cycle to take care of about one half of
6 the public stormwater sewer system. We're proposing
7 an increase of approximately 50 percent to about 22,
8 $24 million per year. That's an increase right at
9 50 percent.
10 That will allow us to maintain twice as much
11 public storm sewer as we are now. There's an
12 economy of scale with us taking that on, so the cost
13 will double. It'll just go up 50 percent to allow
14 us to maintain the system District-wide.
15 It also results in District-wide stormwater
16 projects for the first time. Kind of starting from
17 the top I'll start at the green area. This map is
18 identical to the description I gave on the sanitary
19 sewers. Within each one of these little circles are
20 numbers and there's a spreadsheet that describes the
21 project, what it solves, how much it costs and when
22 it will be built. That's this map over here.
23 We also have a copy of the spreadsheet if
24 you're interested in looking at any of those
25 projects.
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1 In that area we're proposing 64 projects
2 valued at about $25 million. Those projects
3 probably get built, most of them, regardless of the
4 result of the vote on the property tax. That's
5 being paid by property tax already in place for the
6 folks in the green area. The amount is slightly
7 bigger because some of those revenues were being
8 used to help maintain the public storm sewer system
9 in the green area of the District.
10 Next is the yellow area. There's 47 projects
11 identified for about seventeen and a half million
12 dollars. Approximately one half of those projects
13 are within the City of St. Louis. The other half
14 are on the near northwest and South County, just
15 outside the St. Louis City boundaries.
16 Again, no stormwater projects have been done
17 in those areas in the past. Passing a new 10 cent
18 District-wide property tax fixes an accounting issue
19 we have with how you can spend the monies and allows
20 us to free up that seventeen and one half million
21 dollars to resolve stormwater issues in the city and
22 near county, things like erosion and flooding.
23 Finally, in the red area, we're proposing 60
24 projects over that four-year period for seven and a
25 half million dollars. Again, haven't done any
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1 projects in the past. Where that money comes from,
2 we are going to be requesting the voters consider a
3 10-cent-wide District property tax. If you pass
4 that, approximately just under 9 cents of that goes
5 towards operation and maintenance of the public
6 storm sewer system District-wide.
7 Whatever is left over we are committing to
8 put towards capital projects to start resolving some
9 of the more serious stormwater problems that exist
10 District-wide, things like erosion and flooding.
11 So what happens to all of those different
12 taxes I talked about previously? If the voters
13 approve a 10 cent property tax, the tax in the green
14 area that's between 5 and 10 cents, that tax will be
15 set at zero. We will no longer charge that
16 stormwater tax.
17 For the yellow area, which is the yellow and
18 green, the 7 cent property tax that the yellow and
19 green customers are paying, this 10 cent tax will
20 replace that. It will go away.
21 The District-wide 2 cent property tax, that
22 will stay in place. As I described, right now it's
23 set aside for regulatory issues. The revenues we
24 collect are just about equal to our current costs to
25 meet regulatory requirements for stormwater
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1 District-wide.
2 And then, finally, on that fourth line you
3 see a proposed 10 cent District-wide property tax
4 and also the 24 cent per month charge for stormwater
5 that shows up on everybody's wastewater bill, that
6 will also be replaced if the voters approve a 10
7 cent District-wide property tax.
8 So what is the change in cost for all of our
9 customers? We will start with the green area.
10 Again, this is just outside the City of St. Louis
11 and generally inside 270. Currently with the 2
12 cent, 7 cent and up to 10 cent tax, you're paying --
13 the average property value in that green area is
14 $184,500. Based on that, the average customer is
15 currently paying us about $62 per year for
16 stormwater service.
17 This proposal will lower that tax by about
18 $20 per year resulting in an average annual property
19 tax cost of about $42 per year for the average
20 customer. The change in the overall property tax
21 bill is a decrease of approximately one half of
22 1 percent. MSD's tax is a very small part of
23 somebody's property tax bill, so it has very little
24 impact on your overall property tax bill.
25 The next slide, the yellow area, which
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1 includes the City of St. Louis, again, currently a 2
2 cent and 7 cent is being paid. The average property
3 value in that yellow area is $70,800. The average
4 customer right now is paying us $12.50 per year on
5 their property tax bill.
6 The proposed 10 cent tax would increase that
7 by about three and a half dollars per year,
8 resulting in the average person in the yellow area
9 paying a property tax bill for stormwater of $16
10 per -- $16.10 per year on your annual property tax
11 bill.
12 For the average customer that's a change of
13 three-tenths -- an increase of three-tenths of one
14 percent of your overall property tax bill. So for
15 every thousand dollars you pay in property tax it's
16 an increase of $3 per year.
17 So if you live in the red area -- and, again,
18 remember we're paying very little and we're
19 providing very little service. Currently the
20 property values in the red area, average property
21 value is approximately $266,700. With the 2 cent
22 tax the average customer in that red area is paying
23 us about $10.50 per year on your annual property tax
24 bill for stormwater.
25 This proposal will increase the average
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1 annual amount by about $50 per year resulting in an
2 average annual property tax bill to customers in the
3 red area of about $60 per year for stormwater
4 service. Change in the total property tax bill is
5 an increase of about 1.2 percent or about $10 for
6 every thousand dollars of property tax that's paid.
7 Total customer impact. What we've done here
8 is we combined the stormwater and wastewater, put
9 them into annual -- average annual cost. We're
10 showing two scenarios. One, if the ratepayers
11 decide to grant the District additional bonding
12 authorization. The second, if they don't.
13 So if you look on the left-hand column this
14 is assuming approval. Right now in Fiscal 2016
15 you'll see that the average customer pays MSD $522
16 per year for all the services that MSD provides.
17 Assuming we have additional bonding authority
18 that will increase over the next four years to an
19 average annual cost for all of MSD services of about
20 $777 per year.
21 Right-hand column is assuming that no
22 additional bonding authority is granted and most of
23 the wastewater capital work is paid for directly
24 through the cash you receive on your monthly bill.
25 Again, we start at an average cost of $522 per year.
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1 In that scenario by 2020 the average annual cost for
2 the average customer for all of MSD's services is
3 just under $1200 per year.
4 This next slide shows the customer assistance
5 program for low income residents. If somebody
6 qualifies as a low income resident MSD's charges are
7 cut in half. So if you compare this chart to the
8 previous one, you'll find the average annual costs
9 are about one half of what it is for everybody else
10 if you qualify for the low income assistance
11 program.
12 What the process looks like as we continue
13 on. Again, MSD submitted a proposal -- MSD staff
14 submitted a proposal to our Rate Commission on
15 February 26th. There will be a wastewater rate
16 increase on July 1, 2015, from the previous rate
17 cycle. That will be the last one that is allowed by
18 the previous Rate Commission decisions.
19 Rate Commission's recommendations, as were
20 described, are due to our board by August 2015.
21 MSD's board will consider their recommendations
22 between October and December 2015.
23 As we mentioned, there will be public comment
24 in a minute. If you wish to provide public comment,
25 on what you've seen, provide it here, otherwise you
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1 can email us at jfenton at S-T-L-M-S-D dot com or
2 you can mail us your comments. Any way we receive
3 comments regarding the Rate Proposal will be
4 forwarded to the Rate Commission for their
5 consideration.
6 So what does this all result in? In Calendar
7 2016 MSD will be going to the voters for two issues.
8 The first has to do with wastewater. MSD will ask
9 the citizens whether they wish to authorize an
10 additional $900 million of bonding authority.
11 It's kind of like borrowing money for your
12 house. If the voters say yes, the average annual --
13 the average monthly wastewater bill will go from
14 about $40 per month now to about $60 per month in
15 2020.
16 If they say no, they will pay $40 per month
17 now and eventually pay about $96 per month in 2020
18 for wastewater service. It's a decision the
19 ratepayers need to make.
20 Again, it's like buying a house or a car. If
21 you borrow money and keep the cost low now, every
22 dollar you borrow you do have to pay $2 back
23 sometime in the future but you do keep your rates
24 lower now.
25 You decide not to authorize additional bond
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1 authority, the rates do go up now but as the program
2 peaks in 2023 or so and the cost of the program
3 goes down, you have a chance for rates to go down
4 faster the less money you borrow. It's a decision
5 we'll lay out in front of the voters. Prior to that
6 vote MSD will go out and do an education -- set of
7 education hearings and make sure everybody
8 understands what the options are and what the
9 consequences and results are whether they vote no or
10 yes.
11 The second election we'll hold will have to
12 do with stormwater and it will be fairly simple.
13 The question will be whether or not the residents
14 wish to institute a 10 cent District-wide stormwater
15 tax. If they do, we just described the program that
16 happens. Some people's taxes go up, some go down,
17 but it does allow us to provide District-wide
18 operation and maintenance of the public storm sewer
19 system and District-wide projects.
20 If the voters vote no, it will just maintain
21 the service level, as it was when I previously
22 described, with your service level and cost varying
23 depending on whether you live in the green, yellow
24 or red area of the District. It will be up to the
25 voters.
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1 Again, it will be in 2016. The exact dates
2 of the elections we don't know yet. We'll decide
3 that as we near the end of Calendar 2015 but when we
4 are ready to go, again, we advertise and MSD will
5 provide public information meetings so everybody
6 understands what it is they're being requested to
7 consider.
8 That's the end of MSD's presentation and so,
9 as Mr. Tomazi had mentioned, now is the time if
10 anybody has any public comment they would like to
11 make for the record for the Rate Commission, now is
12 the time to go ahead and make those comments
13 MR. TOMAZI: Thank you, Mr. Hoelscher.
14 The first person that signed up is
15 Mr. Overmann.
16 MR. OVERMANN: I have nothing to say.
17 MR. TOMAZI: Nothing?
18 MR. OVERMANN: No.
19 MR. TOMAZI: Do you by chance have a
20 relative named Ron Overmann that was a barber?
21 MR. OVERMANN: Yes, I do. He's retired.
22 MR. TOMAZI: Is he really?
23 MR. OVERMANN: Yeah.
24 MR. TOMAZI: Long time ago. Another
25 story.
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1 Okay. Second person then is Mr. Bob
2 Dittrich.
3 MR. DITTRICH: Yes.
4 MR. TOMAZI: Yes, sir.
5 MR. DITTRICH: Yeah, I just live close
6 to here and a lot of times I feel my sewer bills are
7 constantly getting higher and higher and I don't
8 have a water meter so there's no -- they say it's
9 estimated on water usage or estimated I guess
10 according to my water bill but right now I'm
11 paying -- the sewer bill is actually one and a half
12 times what I'm paying for water and I don't know it
13 seems to constantly go up and I'm kind of stuck with
14 it.
15 MR. TOMAZI: Thank you. Is there
16 anything you would like to respond with?
17 MR. HOELSCHER: Let me -- I'll kind of
18 finish the thought you had about how the bill
19 occurs. Because most of the city does not have
20 meters on their home, with the water coming in -- in
21 the county we take the actual meter value and that's
22 what we use. We assume that water goes down the
23 sewers.
24 In the city we bill for sewer the same way
25 the city bills for water. They're assuming that
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1 your attributes in your home like water closets,
2 rooms, bathtubs, if there's sinks, there's other
3 parameters, they're assuming that you have a certain
4 utilization per attribute and that's how we're
5 estimating the amount of water usage.
6 Now, I will tell you for the first time in
7 quite a while we went back and did a study about how
8 much we're charging per attribute for the city,
9 residents who are not metered. We found that based
10 on changes in usage there was appropriately proposed
11 to the Rate Commission and upfront 9 percent
12 decrease in the sewer bill for city customers who
13 were unmetered. So we started there.
14 Now, the rates are going up on top of that
15 but if you're a city customer you will find your
16 rates -- first step is to go down 9 percent prior to
17 doing the increases and that was based on a study
18 and analysis we did of the approximate usage for
19 average homes of certain characteristics.
20 MR. DITTRICH: And as far as like with
21 my water bill, every month the sewer bill is
22 actually like one and a half times that and it's
23 like --
24 MR. HOELSCHER: I will tell you it is
25 always harder to clean dirty water than it is to
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1 make water from the Mississippi drinkable. That is
2 just reflective of that.
3 MR. TOMAZI: Thank you, Mr. Dittrich.
4 Mr. Villa?
5 MR. VILLA: Yeah, Brian, can I ask you a
6 couple questions?
7 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, sir.
8 MR. VILLA: The average appraisal in the
9 city, that just seems low to me, 70,800.
10 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, that is the
11 average appraised value in that entire yellow area
12 if you look at our map. So it's not just the City
13 of St. Louis, near North County, near West County --
14 MR. VILLA: But it's the entire city?
15 MR. HOELSCHER: It's the city plus an
16 additional area. If you go to the colored map, keep
17 going, okay, right there. So the city boundaries
18 are about right here and there are areas included
19 for property values in near North County, West and
20 South County. So what we're looking at, that's the
21 assessment as we looked up on the chart. That's the
22 average assessment for all the properties that are
23 on the yellow area on this map. Most of it's the
24 city but they're also near northwest county as well.
25 MR. VILLA: Just seems low to me for the
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1 areas of -- some of the areas of South St. Louis
2 that I represent that seems low.
3 MR. HOELSCHER: It probably is. It
4 probably is. It's an average for the entire area.
5 MR. VILLA: Okay. I'm questioning why
6 do you -- is it an executive decision to hold
7 separate elections?
8 MR. HOELSCHER: We don't know if they'll
9 hold them separate or have them occur at the same
10 time. I guess I didn't mention it is possible we
11 will take an election date and vote on both of them
12 at the same time. It's something we haven't
13 decided.
14 Now, they are two separate issues and they
15 will be two separate ballot initiatives but that is
16 also a possibility that we will do them all at the
17 same time if it made sense, if it was
18 cost-effective, if we felt we were able to get the
19 message out. That is a possibility.
20 MR. VILLA: I guess if you narrow the
21 focus you have a better chance of educating the
22 electorate separately. That's just an editorial
23 comment.
24 MR. HOELSCHER: It is not a completely
25 understandable issue, yes. Past experiences we had
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1 them do them separately and it's much easier to
2 understand.
3 MR. VILLA: Is it fair to ask, does the
4 Rate Commission have the -- do you have the poetic
5 license to reduce these numbers before you go to the
6 voters or not?
7 MR. TOMAZI: Yes, we do. One of the --
8 the Rate Commission has retained, on its own as part
9 of its activities, a rate consultant and our rate
10 consultant is, in fact, putting together testimony
11 as to its interpretation as to what the District is
12 asking. And it will be up to the Rate Commission to
13 review those two, perhaps, differing opinions as to
14 what is or is not an appropriate rate and go from
15 there.
16 I will say this, yes, there's probably some
17 discretion certainly on rates but I do want to
18 remind you and I know that Mr. Hoelscher mentioned
19 this in the beginning, is that Metropolitan St.
20 Louis Sewer District is under a Consent Decree with
21 the U.S. Department of Justice and that Consent
22 Decree was finally entered into after extensive
23 negotiations.
24 As it turns out, the Decree entered into with
25 the U.S. Department of Justice is significantly
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1 different than an arrangement or a tentative
2 agreement that it had reached with the State of
3 Missouri, which was a smaller capital program not --
4 with the expenditures not as front-end loaded, Mr.
5 Villa, as they are with the
6 Federal-Government-imposed. So there was a -- the
7 Federal Government's requirement was quite a bit.
8 Now, what that has done is that apparently is
9 driving every item that is in the capital budget for
10 the wastewater plan, every item. And so in one
11 sense the District is under this Decree and
12 sometimes we tease Mr. Hoelscher about, you know, if
13 he doesn't we could let the Department of Justice
14 carry him off and throw him in the pokey if things
15 don't go well but we don't want to do that because
16 we have professional leadership in the District, not
17 only at the top level, but throughout all of the
18 ranks.
19 So the answer is, sort of a long way around,
20 but the answer is the Rate Commission does have the
21 authority to recommend a different rate structure
22 but the final decision is still on the Board of
23 Trustees. And so if they are not happy with what we
24 have proposed they can reject, they can amend, or
25 they can adopt whatever we propose.
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1 So they take typically about two months after
2 the Rate Commission's final report is put together
3 to go over it and think about it and finally make a
4 decision on it.
5 MR. VILLA: Thank you. And, in closing,
6 I certainly, as a local elected official, I applaud
7 MSD's efforts to have meetings like this and,
8 unfortunately, it will be people like me that I
9 think will have to go out and at neighborhood
10 meetings explain, you know, what's going on.
11 And it's lamentable that more of the public
12 didn't show up but I think it looks to me like the
13 way you got this gauged it certainly -- I mean, the
14 bonding capacity, you being your own political
15 subdivision, is clearly the way to go.
16 And I try to explain it, we're kind of paying
17 for the sins of our mothers and fathers who
18 polluted, who didn't have the good common sense to
19 do anything about it for most of my lifetime and now
20 all of sudden, you know, the government said, hey,
21 enough.
22 So, anyway, I thank you for coming to
23 Carondelet Park. I thank you for your efforts to
24 reach out to the general public. I noticed the TV
25 campaign is going and I think city residents are
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1 going to have a lot of decisions to make in terms of
2 how our tax dollars are allocated.
3 We're going to try to get a general
4 obligation bond issued as soon as this coming
5 Thursday morning at the Board of Aldermen. We're
6 going to have an attempt to raise taxes for
7 additional police, so I just think it's important
8 that, you know, that the general public has the
9 opportunity to learn about this stuff if they want
10 and thank you for coming.
11 MR. HOELSCHER: Alderman, what I will
12 offer is outside of these proceedings if you have
13 certain community meetings, it won't be official
14 Rate Commission meetings, we can do the same
15 presentation if you have groups you'd like for us to
16 do that for.
17 MR. VILLA: Okay. Thank you.
18 MR. TOMAZI: As a personal note, I would
19 like to thank you for your years of public service
20 for the city. It's always deeply appreciated.
21 MR. VILLA: Thank you.
22 MR. TOMAZI: The fourth speaker is
23 Mr. Patrick Dwyer.
24 MR. DWYER: I just had a couple
25 questions. I guess you guys have had several of
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1 these meetings before. Has there been more public
2 input or interest in these or how has that been
3 going?
4 MR. TOMAZI: One other housekeeping
5 thing I should have mentioned is that I have some
6 hearing difficulties and sometimes my wife accuses
7 me of having selective hearing.
8 MR. DWYER: I get the same thing.
9 MR. TOMAZI: But I'm doing the best that
10 I can. So if you could interpret, Brian.
11 MR. HOELSCHER: I'll give you a couple
12 things. One, and it's up here, there is a sheet of
13 the other Rate Commission meetings going to be held
14 throughout the area. It's on the sheet called "MSD
15 Rate Commission." It also lists the organizations
16 and names of the groups.
17 Attendance of these have varied between one
18 and nine. Now, MSD has been talking about this in
19 public for about two years. Staff took it on itself
20 to make sure we educated all the leader -- public
21 officials, the mayors and their staffs in the
22 cities, the 91 cities in our area. We did that for
23 about a year.
24 Prior to and right at the time we gave this
25 proposal to the Rate Commission we went out, and not
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1 just -- not in public hearings, but MSD went out and
2 scheduled meetings throughout the area to describe
3 what it is we're going to talk about. We also
4 presented in other community meetings if somebody
5 wished us to. We have these public meetings and
6 then the board process will be a public process and
7 then during the election we'll have more of those.
8 As far as advertising, the Rate Commission's
9 requirements for advertising go up every year and
10 rightly so. You will find that we've tried
11 advertising in the newspaper, radio, TV, public
12 social media, billboards. We stopped short of smoke
13 signals. We didn't do those. But we tried
14 everything we can to get the word out.
15 Our history has been people really start
16 thinking about it right before the elections come
17 and that's why we will put the resources forward to
18 have another full discussion to make sure everybody
19 understands what it is they're being asked to
20 consider. So we'll try a bunch of times to catch
21 them as often as we possibly can.
22 MSD STAFF MEMBER: And you also have the
23 presentation on the website.
24 MR. HOELSCHER: Oh, and the presentation
25 is on the website where I gave one of our previous
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1 ones. You can either look at this presentation or
2 they have filmed me giving this in one of those
3 meetings. So somebody can actually look at those on
4 the website if anybody's ever interested.
5 MR. DWYER: Okay. So if you want to get
6 further education you would direct us towards the
7 website?
8 MR. HOELSCHER: The website is the best
9 place. It also has contact names if folks want to
10 contact somebody for information.
11 MR. DWYER: My other question, I guess
12 my second question, after all this is done -- we
13 live by the Grant's Trail and the Gravois Creek and
14 there's I believe it's your signage out there that
15 says, "Don't swim, fish or play in the water."
16 Do we see those signs going away I guess
17 after this work is done or improvements have been
18 made?
19 MR. HOELSCHER: When the entire set of
20 improvements are done, there is a 23-year program,
21 it's about $4.7 billion and we're right now in the
22 third year of that, the wastewater work, Mr. Tomazi
23 had mentioned it's also Consent-Decree-driven, if we
24 eliminate those overflows we pull the signs up.
25 So I want to mention -- I don't know that
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Page 47
1 Gravois Creek is on the front end of the program.
2 Mr. Unverferth over here, our director of
3 engineering, if you give him the specific area he
4 can either give you a sense tonight or get back to
5 you and say exactly when the work in that area will
6 get to the point where there are no more overflows
7 and, therefore, we can pull the signs up.
8 MR. DWYER: Thank you. My last question
9 is just an educational thing. I'm aware of the
10 Public Service Commission and what they do as far as
11 regulatory -- utility oversight I guess. How does
12 the Rate Commission compare with the Public Service
13 Commission? I guess I don't know.
14 MR. HOELSCHER: Right. The Public
15 Service Commission is set up to regulate for-profit
16 utilities.
17 MR. DWYER: Okay.
18 MR. HOELSCHER: Therefore, we would not
19 fall under, nor would we suspect they'd accept our
20 process. What was done in 2000, some stakeholders
21 proposed that we propose to the voters that we put
22 in our Charter the requirement to have a Rate
23 Commission, local rate commission, set up along the
24 lines of a Public Service Commission.
25 So this Commission has been in place since
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Page 48
1 2000, based on that vote, and they serve almost an
2 identical function. It's very much like a court
3 setting. As Mr. Tomazi described earlier on, we're
4 kind of in the middle of that process with
5 testimony, cross-examination and submittal of
6 documents. That's what this Rate Commission -- now,
7 this Rate Commission doesn't get paid anything.
8 They're all volunteers. But the structure is very
9 similar to a Public Service Commission structure.
10 MR. DWYER: Okay. Thank you.
11 MR. TOMAZI: We are the unpaid public
12 Service Commission for MSD.
13 MR. DWYER: Well, you guys should be
14 commended for your efforts. It's a big job.
15 MR. TOMAZI: Thank you. That concludes
16 all the persons who have signed up to speak tonight.
17 Do you, Commissioner O'Connell, have any
18 questions or comments?
19 MR. O'CONNELL: No, sir.
20 MR. TOMAZI: Seeing none, I would like
21 to thank all of you for your participation in coming
22 here tonight.
23 The next public hearing of the MSD Rate
24 Commission is May 20th, 2015, six o'clock p.m. at
25 the Center of Clayton. Therefore, this public
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Page 49
1 hearing is adjourned. Thank you very much for
2 coming. We appreciate it.
3 - - - - -
4 (Hearing concluded at 7:03 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2 I, Suzanne Zes, within and for the State
3 of Missouri, do hereby certify that the witness
4 whose testimony appears in the foregoing deposition
5 was duly sworn by me; the testimony of said witness
6 was taken by me to the best of my ability and
7 thereafter reduced to typewriting under my
8 direction; that I am neither counsel for, related
9 to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action
10 in which this deposition was taken, and further that
11 I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or
12 counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor
13 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome
14 of the action.
15
16 ______________________________
17 Certified Court Reporter
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47:14,18
hold 34:11 39:6,9
Holly 1:13 3:5
home 7:4 22:10
36:20 37:1
homes 37:19
hours 3:3
house 21:2 33:12
33:20
housekeeping
8:20 44:4
hundred 25:18
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identical 26:18
48:2
identified 27:11
identify 8:18
identifying 7:13
III 4:4
immediate 24:22
immediately 17:2
impact 19:23
29:24 31:7
impacts 12:2
important 43:7
importantly 14:4
improvements
15:23 17:2
46:17,20
include 16:9
included 38:18
includes 14:2
16:9 24:9 30:1
including 5:24
income 32:5,6,10
increase 24:4
26:7,8 30:6,13
30:16,25 31:5
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independent
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Industrial 7:5
information
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initiate 25:25
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inlet 24:21
inlets 11:18
21:18
input 12:16 44:2
inside 29:11
inspect 18:24,25
inspecting 14:2
23:12
institute 34:14
institutions 6:4
intended 11:22
intercept 15:8
interest 16:19
44:2
interested 5:23
26:24 46:4
50:13
interpret 44:10
interpretation
40:11
intervene 7:2,3
7:24
Intervenors 7:10
Introduction 2:3
investigation
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involving 9:21
issue 7:22 15:14
24:22 27:18
39:25
issued 16:19 43:4
issues 5:25,25 6:1
7:13,19 12:11
12:13 13:11
20:25 21:5,8
22:7,8 23:3,11
25:4 27:21
28:23 33:7
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It'll 26:13
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July 13:2 32:16
June 8:3 13:2,9
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19:22 40:21,25
41:13
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keep 16:1 33:21
33:23 38:16
kind 21:3 23:22
26:16 33:11
36:13,17 42:16
48:4
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L
labor 4:5 5:25
lamentable 42:11
large 17:20 18:9
larger 15:16
laundry 11:2
lawsuit 10:4
lay 34:5
layed 15:24 16:3
leader 44:20
leadership 41:16
learn 43:9
left 8:22 17:5
19:4 28:7
left-hand 18:6
31:13
legal 6:21
level 10:14 34:21
34:22 41:17
license 40:5
lifetime 42:19
limit 9:2
limits 20:17
21:24
line 20:16 29:2
lines 23:24,24
24:17 47:24
lining 14:3
listed 8:17
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LITIGATION
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little 26:19 29:23
30:18,19
live 20:6,19 21:9
21:23 22:11,21
30:17 34:23
36:5 46:13
living 25:6
load 24:11
loaded 41:4
local 11:6 25:10
42:6 47:23
located 9:4 10:15
23:6
location 8:7
long 15:21 35:24
41:19
longer 28:15
long-term 16:4
look 18:6,12 19:4
31:13 38:12
46:1,3
looked 18:13
38:21
looking 10:8 23:5
26:24 38:20
looks 32:12
42:12
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36:6 43:1
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3:5 4:3,5,23 6:5
6:5 7:4 8:5,6
21:10,17 27:13
27:15 29:10
30:1 38:13 39:1
40:20
low 13:14 32:5,6
32:10 33:21
38:9,25 39:2
lower 29:17
33:24
M
M 3:6
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main 15:6,6
25:21
maintain 13:21
15:20 16:15
21:5,6,16 22:5
22:18 26:10,14
27:8 34:20
maintained
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maintenance
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18:22 23:1
24:20 25:8,15
25:22 28:5
34:18
making 20:11
management
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manholes 11:18
14:3,3 18:24,25
manner 16:1
map 17:24 18:7
20:12 23:20
26:17,22 38:12
38:16,23
March 6:11
marked 2:14
maximum 8:25
mayors 44:21
MDNR 11:6 23:9
mean 42:13
measure 14:5,11
media 45:12
meet 10:6 20:22
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meeting 9:20,24
meetings 35:5
42:7,10 43:13
43:14 44:1,13
45:2,4,5 46:3
member 5:4
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members 6:4
mention 39:10
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mentioned 9:16
32:23 35:9
40:18 44:5
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Meramec 11:7
20:15
message 39:19
meter 36:8,21
metered 37:9
meters 36:20
Metropolitan 1:8
3:1 40:19
middle 48:4
MIDWEST 4:22
Mike 4:4 5:7,8
miles 11:4 14:4
17:16 18:25
19:1,2 23:25
24:17
million 13:7,10
13:16,20,24
16:14,18,25
17:5,7 19:7
25:16,18 26:3,8
27:2,11,20,25
33:10
minute 32:24
minutes 9:1
Mississippi 11:7
20:13 38:1
Missouri 1:14
3:6,7 7:4 11:7
20:14 41:3 50:3
MO 4:23
modified 6:19
money 16:7
17:10 28:1
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month 19:12,14
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months 42:1
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morning 43:5
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MSD 4:2 5:4,8,17
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MSD's 9:15
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N 2:1 4:1 5:1
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named 35:20
names 8:17 44:16
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necessary 9:3
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neither 50:8
never 15:10 16:5
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new 27:17
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note 43:18
notice 6:7 8:4
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Notices 8:7
November 5:12
number 14:14
18:1,1
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O 5:1
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occurs 36:19
October 32:22
offer 22:25 43:12
officer 9:2
official 42:6
43:13
officials 44:21
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okay 36:1 38:17
39:5 43:17 46:5
47:17 48:10
ones 46:1
online 18:13
on-the-record
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open 9:17 21:19
opens 24:23
operate 13:21
16:15
operated 10:12
operating 17:12
26:2
operation 5:24
13:19,24 18:22
24:20 25:7,15
28:5 34:18
Operational 6:9
operations 14:1
opinions 40:13
opportunity 7:1
8:12 43:9
Option 19:5,15
options 34:8
order 8:16,23
11:20 15:23
16:7
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6:2,2,4 8:18
12:17 44:15
originally 11:22
outcome 50:13
outside 21:24
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overall 29:20,24
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overcharged
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overflows 14:6
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17:15,17 46:24
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Overmann 2:6
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oversight 47:11
overview 9:14
o'clock 48:24
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part 24:5 29:22
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participant 7:17
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Passing 27:17
Patrick 2:9 43:23
paved 11:19
pay 16:24,25
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30:15 33:16,17
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paying 16:19,23
20:7 22:12,13
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pays 11:13 31:15
peaks 34:2
people 42:8
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percent 14:14
19:13 26:7,9,13
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31:5 37:11,16
period 8:14
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25:16 27:24
permit 8:12 11:5
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22:19 30:8
35:14 36:1
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persons 7:16
48:16
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pipe 13:22 14:4
15:1
pipes 11:4 14:24
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25:13 27:5
28:22 46:9
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places 15:9,11,22
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plan 5:11,17 16:3
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18:15 20:11
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planning 18:21
plant 17:23
plants 11:5 13:21
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play 46:15
please 8:21 9:10
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possible 39:10
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Prehearing 7:12
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prepared 7:14,20
present 4:10 8:10
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presentation 2:4
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35:8 43:15
45:23,24 46:1
presented 45:4
presenting 19:6
presiding 5:5 9:2
pretty 21:16
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previous 16:19
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previously 7:14
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prices 13:14
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program 10:3
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project 18:2,3,15
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projects 16:11
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properties 38:22
property 12:7,12
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proposal 7:1
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12:9 13:1,4
16:9 18:8,13,19
18:20 25:14
29:17 30:25
32:13,14 33:3
44:25
proposals 12:22
propose 41:25
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proposed 5:16
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proposes 12:19
proposing 6:7
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provide 9:24
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20:25 23:15
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34:17 35:5
provided 8:16
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providing 30:19
public 1:9 2:5 3:1
5:2,5 8:1,4,9,14
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11:18 12:16,21
21:5,16 22:5,18
23:1 24:18 25:5
25:11,22 26:6
26:11 27:8 28:5
32:23,24 34:18
35:5,10 42:11
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47:12,14,24
48:9,11,23,25
published 8:4
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pump 13:21 14:2
18:23
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put 9:18 20:5
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putting 10:1
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p.m 1:17 48:24
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qualifies 32:6
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quality 12:2 24:6
question 34:13
46:11,12 47:8
questioning 39:5
questions 9:6,21
9:23 38:6 43:25
48:18
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rains 14:23 15:5
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5:20,20 6:3,6,7
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ratepayer 8:12
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ratepayers 7:24
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17:1 33:23 34:1
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rationale 7:23
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35:4
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receive 10:11
11:11 24:19,20
31:24 33:2
received 6:7 7:8
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recognized 8:23
recommend
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recommendation
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recommendati...
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record 7:15 9:19
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red 20:19 21:15
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reference 18:16
refers 18:2
reflective 38:2
regarding 5:14
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regardless 27:3
regulate 47:15
regulator 11:24
regulatory 14:17
20:23 21:4,15
22:4 23:1,7
28:23,25 47:11
rehabilitate
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rehabilitating
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relative 35:20
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remind 40:18
remove 17:15
repair 15:19,20
replace 28:20
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report 7:19 42:2
Reporter 3:7
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represent 5:22
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representation
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represented 8:19
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request 6:14 10:1
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required 11:23
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requires 5:17
resident 32:6
residential 5:22
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resolve 21:8 22:6
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resolving 28:8
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respond 23:17
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responsible
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retained 40:8
retired 35:21
revenues 6:9
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review 5:13 6:16
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right 9:5 13:8,23
16:1 18:7 20:8
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right-hand 19:15
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rivers 11:7,8
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road 25:10
rolled 13:17
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rooms 37:2
rules 6:10,24
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running 23:14
runoff 11:25
24:4,7
S
S 4:1 5:1
safety 24:22
sales 16:20
sanitary 14:19
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says 46:15
scale 26:12
scenario 19:5
32:1
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Schedule 6:10,12
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second 5:9 20:11
31:12 34:11
36:1 46:12
see 17:25 18:7,14
18:17 19:10,12
19:23 23:24
29:3 31:15
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send 12:20
sense 39:17 41:11
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separate 39:7,9
39:14,15
separated 14:11
separately 39:22
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serve 11:23 48:1
served 5:8 25:11
service 9:24
10:14,25 11:9
11:12,14 12:5
16:18 20:8,9,10
22:14,24 29:16
30:19 31:4
33:18 34:21,22
43:19 47:10,12
47:15,24 48:9
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services 4:22
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32:2
Session 2:5 8:9
sessions 8:1
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set 16:4 28:15,23
34:6 46:19
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sets 12:17
setting 7:13,20
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seven 27:24
seventeen 27:11
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sewer 1:8 3:2
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23:2 24:19,23
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28:6 34:18 36:6
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sewers 10:15,15
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21:18 24:18
25:9,12 26:19
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shape 24:14
sheet 8:16 44:12
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short 45:12
show 42:12
showers 11:2
showing 31:10
shown 16:11
shows 29:5 32:4
side 8:23 10:8
18:6 19:15
sign 8:15,21,24
signage 46:14
signals 45:13
signed 10:4
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significantly
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signs 46:16,24
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similar 14:10
48:9
simple 34:12
single-family
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soak 11:16
social 45:12
socio-economic
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somebody 14:24
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somebody's
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south 20:14
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spreadsheet 18:9
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21:17 27:13,15
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stable 16:1
staff 6:23 7:8
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stakeholders
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stay 28:22
step 37:16
stopped 45:12
storage 17:16,21
store 17:20
storm 10:10,15
10:15 11:18,18
17:21 21:5,16
21:18 22:5,18
23:1 24:17,18
24:23,25 25:1,5
25:8,11,22
26:11 27:8 28:6
34:18
storms 14:10
stormwater 5:15
6:8 8:11 10:8,9
11:15,20,25
12:5,8,11,13
15:8,10,17
16:15 20:9,10
20:25 21:8,21
22:7,14,24 23:2
23:16 24:7
25:19,25 26:6
26:15 27:16,21
28:9,16,25 29:4
29:16 30:9,24
31:3,8 34:12,14
story 35:25
stream 11:17
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12:2 14:8
street 4:22 25:10
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structure 41:21
48:8,9
stuck 36:13
study 37:7,17
stuff 43:9
subdivision
42:15
submit 7:1,18
submittal 48:5
submitted 7:15
9:14 32:13,14
submitting 7:16
sudden 42:20
suggested 6:19
summation
10:17
supposed 15:10
sure 15:19 23:14
24:3 25:21 34:7
44:20 45:18
suspect 15:15
47:19
Suzanne 3:6 4:21
50:2
swim 46:15
sworn 50:5
system 10:11
11:18 14:6,19
15:10,14,16,18
15:20,22,23
16:16,16,16
17:18 21:6,17
21:19 22:5,18
23:2 24:19 25:5
25:13,23 26:6
26:14 27:8 28:6
34:19
systems 14:15
S&P 16:2
S-T-L-M-S-D
33:1
T
table 18:11
take 17:1 21:4
26:5 36:21
39:11 42:1
taken 50:6,10
takes 11:25 24:13
talk 23:22 45:3
talked 28:12
talking 21:3
44:18
tax 5:15 12:5,7
12:12 20:21
21:12,13 22:1,1
22:2,13,17,17
22:20,22,22,23
23:6,18,19
24:13 27:4,5,18
28:3,13,13,14
28:16,18,19,21
29:3,7,12,17,19
29:20,22,23,24
30:5,6,9,10,14
30:15,22,23
31:2,4,6 34:15
43:2
taxes 28:12 34:16
43:6
tease 41:12
tell 37:6,24
ten 8:25
tentative 41:1
terms 43:1
testimony 7:8,10
7:14,16,21 8:21
40:10 48:5 50:4
50:5
thank 9:11 35:13
36:15 38:3 42:5
42:22,23 43:10
43:17,19,21
47:8 48:10,15
48:21 49:1
therefor 7:23
thereon 8:17
thereto 50:12
they'd 47:19
thing 17:10 44:5
44:8 47:9
things 9:21 10:24
11:3 12:1 27:22
28:10 41:14
44:12
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42:12,25 43:7
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thousand 30:15
31:6
three 14:18 30:7
three-tenths
30:13,13
throw 41:14
Thursday 43:5
time 1:17 5:9 8:7
9:3 13:12,25
15:21 25:18
26:16 35:9,12
35:24 37:6
39:10,12,17
44:24
times 15:15 36:6
36:12 37:22
45:20
today 14:13,24
Tom 2:8
Tomazi 2:3 4:3
5:2,4 9:10,11
9:16 35:9,13,17
35:19,22,24
36:4,15 38:3
40:7 43:18,22
44:4,9 46:22
48:3,11,15,20
tonight 5:7 8:9
9:13 18:5,12
47:4 48:16,22
top 26:17 37:14
41:17
total 17:8 31:4,7
touch 26:2
Trail 46:13
travels 11:4
HEARING 5/19/2015
www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
treated 11:5 15:3
17:23
treating 11:1
treatment 11:4
13:21 15:2
17:22 18:23
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Trustees 5:18
6:14,17 12:20
12:21 41:23
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43:3 45:20
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turns 40:24
TV 19:1 42:24
45:11
twice 26:10
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14:10 25:4
31:10 33:7
39:14,15 40:13
42:1 44:19
types 11:3 12:1
typewriting 50:7
typically 42:1
U
underground
17:21
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23:16 24:10
40:2
understandable
39:25
understands
34:8 35:6 45:19
unfortunately
42:8
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Unverferth 47:2
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37:5,10,18
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36:22
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20:6 47:16
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47:11
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V
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30:21 36:21
38:11
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38:19
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38:14,25 39:5
39:20 40:3 41:5
42:5 43:17,21
volunteers 48:8
vote 12:15 19:8
27:4 34:6,9,20
39:11 48:1
voters 16:20
19:16,16 28:2
28:12 29:6 33:7
33:12 34:5,20
34:25 40:6
47:21
W
wait 17:21
want 10:18 13:3
15:25 20:9
23:22 40:17
41:15 43:9 46:5
46:9,25
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wastewater 5:15
6:8 8:11 9:25
10:2,3,25 11:3
11:12,13 12:6
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46:22
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36:22,25 37:1,5
37:21,25 38:1
46:15
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15:13,23 33:2
36:24 41:19
42:13,15
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15:6
weather 14:7
website 10:20
45:23,25 46:4,7
46:8
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37:7 44:25 45:1
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38:19
wet 14:6
we'll 13:23 15:22
17:1,14,15,16
34:5,11 35:2
45:7,20
we're 10:1,6 13:8
13:23 14:12
15:6,7 16:14,25
18:3,21 20:1,24
21:3,14 22:3,17
23:9 26:4,6
27:1,23 30:18
30:18 31:9 37:4
37:8 38:20
42:16 43:3,5
45:3 46:21 48:3
we've 14:13 16:3
25:4 31:7 45:10
wife 44:6
Wildwood 20:17
winds 20:15
wish 7:24 8:21
10:22 32:24
33:9 34:14
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witness 50:3,5
word 45:14
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13:10,18 14:5
16:10,23 18:21
19:9,19 21:15
22:4 23:1 24:12
24:13,15,23
25:19 31:23
46:17,22 47:5
worth 13:10 17:4
19:9,19 25:19
wrong 24:21
w-w-w 10:21
X
X 2:1
Y
yards 12:1
Yeah 35:23 36:5
38:5
year 19:13,24
22:14,20,24
26:3,8 29:15,18
29:19 30:4,7,10
30:16,23 31:1,3
31:16,20,25
32:3 44:23 45:9
46:22
years 13:17
14:11 16:10,17
17:13 18:16
19:20 25:18,25
31:18 43:19
44:19
yellow 21:9
22:16 23:21
27:10 28:17,17
28:18 29:25
30:3,8 34:23
38:11,23
Z
zero 28:15
Zes 3:6 4:21 50:2
$
$1.1 17:4
$1.5 16:10,13,24
19:9,19
$10 31:5
$10.50 30:23
$12.50 30:4
$1200 32:3
$135 20:7
$142,000 22:10
$16 26:3 30:9
$16.10 30:10
$184,500 29:14
$2 33:22
$2.62 17:9
$20 29:18
$200 17:5
$24 26:8
$25 27:2
$26 22:19
$266,700 30:21
$3 30:16
$4.7 46:21
$40 19:12,24
33:14,16
$42 29:19
$44.72 19:25
$477 16:18
$50 31:1
$522 31:15,25
$53 22:24
$60 19:13 31:3
33:14
$62 29:15
$70,800 30:3
$700 13:24
$716 13:20
$736 16:14
$777 31:20
$8 22:13
$80 13:16
$890 13:10
$900 17:7 19:7
HEARING 5/19/2015
www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334
MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
33:10
$91 25:16
$96 33:17
$971 13:7
1
1 13:2 29:22
32:16
1,154 23:24
1,363 24:17
1.2 31:5
10 19:13 22:2,22
27:17 28:13,14
28:19 29:3,6,12
30:6 34:14
10th 6:16
10-cent-wide
28:3
109 20:16
11 8:2
14th 6:14
15 6:3 12:17 20:7
16 19:24 26:3
1600 18:25
17 19:25
19 1:10 3:2
1900 14:3
2
2 20:21 21:12,25
22:12,17,22
23:5,18 24:12
28:21 29:11
30:1,21
2,638 24:1
20th 48:24
2000 5:12 12:15
47:20 48:1
2013 13:6
2015 1:10 3:3 6:6
6:11,14,16 7:7
8:2,3 32:16,20
32:22 35:3
48:24
2016 13:2,6,9
19:11 31:14
33:7 35:1
2017 16:12,22
25:17
2020 13:2 16:12
16:22 19:14
20:4 25:17 32:1
33:15,17
2023 34:2
22 26:7
23-year 46:20
230 17:14
24 17:16 20:20
21:11,25 22:12
22:16,21 29:4
26 6:6 7:7
26th 32:15
270 21:25 29:11
3
30th 13:2,9
314.644.1334
4:24
314.644.2191
4:23
35 2:6
36 2:7
360 19:2
38 2:8
3800 19:1
39 17:15
4
4 6:11
400 16:25
43 2:9
47 27:10
48 2:10
5
5 2:3 28:14
50 26:7,9,13
6
6,000 18:24
6:09 1:17 3:3
60 27:23
60,000 18:24
600 17:14
62,000 14:2
63101 4:23
64 27:1
66 14:14
6600 14:3
7
7 21:13 22:1,17
22:22 28:18
29:12 30:2
7th 5:12
7.2.2 18:17
7:03 3:4 49:4
70,800 38:9
711 4:22
9
9 2:4 28:4 37:11
37:16
9th 8:3
91 44:22
930 1:13 3:5
96 20:3