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HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 122 - Transcript of May 19, 2015 Public Hearing HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS SEWER DISTRICT 9 PUBLIC HEARING 10 MAY 19, 2015 11 12 CARONDELET PARK REC COMPLEX 13 930 HOLLY HILLS AVENUE 14 ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 15 16 17 (Hearing start time, 6:09 p.m.) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 2 1 I N D E X 2 PAGE 3 Introduction by Mr. Tomazi 5 4 Presentation by Mr. Hoelscher 9 5 Public Hearing Session 6 V. Overmann 35 7 Bob Dittrich 36 8 Tom Villa 38 9 Patrick Dwyer 43 10 Conclusion 48 11 12 13 14 (No exhibits marked.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 3 1 PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE METROPOLITAN ST. LOUIS 2 SEWER DISTRICT, produced and examined on May 19, 3 2015, between the hours of 6:09 in the evening and 4 7:03 in the evening of that day, at the Carondelet 5 Park Rec Complex, 930 Holly Hills Avenue, St. Louis, 6 Missouri, before Suzanne M. Zes, a Certified Court 7 Reporter of the State of Missouri. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 4 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 For the MSD Rate Commission: 3 George Tomazi The Engineers' Club of St. Louis 4 Mike O'Connell III 5 Greater St. Louis Labor Council 6 7 8 9 10 Also Present: 11 Brian Hoelscher Executive Director 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 The Court Reporter: 21 Suzanne Zes 22 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES 711 North Eleventh Street 23 St. Louis, MO 63101 314.644.2191 24 314.644.1334 Fax 25 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 5 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MR. TOMAZI: Let us begin our public 3 hearing this evening. Good evening, I'm George 4 Tomazi. I'm a member of the MSD Rate Commission and 5 I'll be presiding over the public hearing this 6 evening. 7 With me tonight is Mr. Mike O'Connell, who is 8 an MSD Rate Commissioner also. Mike has served 9 for -- I think this is at least his second time, so 10 he has done a great job. 11 The Charter Plan of the District was amended 12 at a general election on November 7th, 2000, and 13 established the Rate Commission to review and make 14 recommendations to the District regarding changes in 15 wastewater rates, stormwater rates and tax rates 16 proposed by the District. 17 The Charter Plan requires the MSD Board of 18 Trustees to select organizations to ensure a fair 19 representation of all users of the District's 20 services on the Rate Commission. The Rate 21 Commission representative organizations are to 22 represent commercial-industrial users, residential 23 users and other organizations interested in the 24 operation of the District, including organizations 25 focusing on environmental issues, labor issues, HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 6 1 socio-economic issues, community-neighborhood 2 organizations and other nonprofit organizations. 3 The MSD Rate Commission currently consists of 15 4 members from organizations and institutions 5 throughout St. Louis City and St. Louis County. 6 On February 26, 2015, the Rate Commission 7 received a Rate Change Notice proposing changes to 8 the District's wastewater rates and stormwater 9 revenues. The Rate Commission adopted Operational 10 Rules and a Procedural Schedule to govern the 11 proceedings on March 4, 2015. 12 Under the Procedural Schedule adopted by the 13 Rate Commission, which was extended by the MSD Board 14 of Trustees on May 14th, 2015 at the request of the 15 MSD Rate Commission, the MSD Rate Commission has 16 until August 10th, 2015, to review and make a 17 recommendation to the MSD Board of Trustees as to 18 whether the proposed rate should be approved, not 19 approved or modified with suggested changes and then 20 approved. 21 The MSD Rate Commission has engaged legal 22 counsel and a rate consultant independent of those 23 used by the MSD staff. 24 Under procedural rules adopted by the Rate 25 Commission, as amended, any person affected by the HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 7 1 Rate Change Proposal had an opportunity to submit an 2 application to intervene in these proceedings. 3 Applications to intervene have been filed by the 4 Home Builders Association of St. Louis and Missouri 5 Industrial Energy Consumers. These applications 6 have been granted. 7 Since February 26, 2015, the MSD Rate 8 Commission has received testimony from MSD staff. 9 The parties have also engaged in discovery requests. 10 Additional testimony from the Intervenors and the 11 Rate Consultant will be filed. 12 A Prehearing Conference for the purpose of 13 identifying any issues raised by the Rate Setting 14 Documents and the prepared testimony previously 15 submitted will be conducted on the record. All 16 persons submitting testimony may participate in the 17 Prehearing Conference and each participant in the 18 Prehearing Conference shall submit a Prehearing 19 Conference Report describing the issues raised by 20 the Rate Setting Documents and the prepared 21 testimony, together with a brief description of such 22 participant's position, if any, on each issue and 23 the rationale therefor. 24 Ratepayers who do not wish to intervene are 25 permitted to participate in these on-the-record HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 8 1 public hearings conducted in nine sessions, which 2 began on May the 11, 2015, and will conclude on 3 June 9th, 2015. 4 The Rate Commission published a Public Notice 5 regarding these proceedings in the St. Louis 6 Post-Dispatch and in the St. Louis American. These 7 Notices contained the time, dates, and location of 8 each of the conferences and hearings. 9 The Public Hearing Session tonight is for the 10 purpose of permitting the District to present its 11 Wastewater and Stormwater Rate Change Proposal and 12 to permit any ratepayer an opportunity to comment. 13 We will begin with a presentation by the District, 14 followed by a public comment period. 15 Those wishing to speak should sign in on the 16 sheet provided and will be called on in the order of 17 the names listed thereon. Each ratepayer should 18 identify themselves and any organizations 19 represented by such ratepayer. 20 There are a few housekeeping rules before we 21 begin. If you wish to present testimony please sign 22 in on the clipboard over by the door on your left 23 side. Speakers will be recognized in the order in 24 which they sign up. 25 Each ratepayer may have a maximum of ten HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 9 1 minutes to speak regarding the proposed rate change. 2 As the presiding officer, I can limit or expand the 3 time, should I deem it necessary. 4 Restrooms are located out the door to your 5 right and up the hall. 6 Are there any questions regarding this 7 procedure this evening? Is the District ready to 8 proceed? 9 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, sir, we are. 10 MR. TOMAZI: Please proceed. 11 MR. HOELSCHER: Thank you, Mr. Tomazi. 12 My name is Brian Hoelscher. I'm the executive 13 director for MSD. Tonight we are going to present 14 an overview of the Rate Proposal submitted by MSD 15 staff to MSD's Rate Commission. 16 As Mr. Tomazi mentioned, at the end of the 17 presentation the Rate Commission will open the floor 18 for any comments that the public would like to put 19 on the record for the Rate Commission process. They 20 will then close the meeting and if you have 21 questions or comments on other things involving MSD 22 we have plenty of staff here that can either answer 23 your questions or we can get back to you and we will 24 provide that service after the meeting is over. 25 There are two components to the wastewater HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 10 1 request -- to the request we're putting in. One has 2 to do with wastewater. Remember and understand our 3 wastewater program is primarily driven by a Consent 4 Decree that we signed based on the lawsuit filed by 5 the EPA and the Department of Justice. The work 6 we're proposing is to meet the requirements of that 7 Consent Decree. 8 On the stormwater side, MSD is looking to 9 change the way it funds stormwater in the area. 10 Approximately one half of our public storm sewer 11 system does not currently receive any funding and, 12 therefore, is not currently being operated or 13 maintained. The proposal is to find a way to 14 provide a District-wide level of service for all of 15 the storm sewers, public storm sewers located within 16 MSD's municipal boundaries. 17 This proposal is a summation of the Rate 18 Proposal. If you want to read the actual Rate 19 Proposal and some of the detail behind the numbers 20 and information I give, you can go on our website, 21 w-w-w dot M-S-D dot com, go to the Rate Commission 22 and the full Rate Proposal is there if you wish to 23 read it. 24 Some things to remember about MSD, we are two 25 utilities. One, we provide wastewater service. HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 11 1 This is collecting and treating water from sinks and 2 bathrooms and showers, dishwashers, laundry, clothes 3 washers, those types of things. That wastewater 4 goes into pipes, travels miles to our treatment 5 plants, is treated according to permit requirements 6 from the EPA and MDNR and discharged to the local 7 rivers, mostly the Missouri, Mississippi and Meramec 8 Rivers. 9 That service is funded by a monthly charge 10 from MSD's customers based on monthly potable water 11 usage. So if you receive a monthly bill from MSD 12 you're currently receiving wastewater service and 13 that monthly bill pays just for the wastewater 14 component of the service we provide. 15 We are also a stormwater utility. If rain 16 that falls on the ground doesn't soak in or 17 discharge directly to a creek and stream, we provide 18 a public storm sewer system, inlets, manholes, storm 19 sewers and, in some cases, paved concrete channels 20 in creeks in order to help convey that stormwater 21 and get it to the creeks and streams where it's 22 originally intended. 23 In addition, we are required to serve as a 24 regulator, to help control the pollutants that are 25 in the stormwater runoff that takes pollutants from HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 12 1 yards and streets and those types of things and 2 impacts the water quality of the creeks and streams. 3 We do have a responsibility to provide policing for 4 that. 5 Stormwater service, there's a small tax on 6 everybody's monthly wastewater bill but it is mostly 7 paid for through your annual property tax bill. 8 Those are revenues that MSD collects for stormwater. 9 So as we go through this proposal I will let 10 you know wastewater revenues can only be spent on 11 wastewater issues. Stormwater revenues, which are 12 on your property tax, can only be spent on 13 stormwater issues. 14 Quick review of the Rate Commission. It was 15 established in 2000 by a vote of our stakeholders in 16 our Charter change to provide public input on how 17 MSD sets its rates. There are 15 organizations that 18 are represented on the Rate Commission. They review 19 all the changes that MSD staff proposes. They will 20 then send a recommendation to our Board of Trustees 21 and our Board of Trustees, in public sessions, will 22 review the proposals from the Rate Commission and 23 come to a final determination as to how we should 24 proceed and what we should present to the 25 ratepayers. HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 13 1 This Rate Proposal covers our rates from 2 July 1, 2016 to June 30th, 2020. 3 First, I want to cover the current wastewater 4 rates. We are currently under a Rate Proposal that 5 was approved by the Rate Commission for our rates 6 from 2013 to 2016. Under that program we had 7 planned on starting $971 million of capital work. 8 Right now it appears we're guessing that by 9 June 30th, 2016, we will start at just about 10 $890 million worth of capital work addressing those 11 Consent Decree issues. 12 We are on time and we are under budget. A 13 lot of it has to do with some efficiency in the 14 bidding process. Some of it is some very low prices 15 we have been getting. That difference, about 16 $80 million difference from what we asked for and 17 what we spent, gets rolled into the next four years 18 and is only spent on capital work. 19 As far as the operation and maintenance, in 20 the last cycle we asked for $716 million of revenues 21 to operate and maintain the treatment plants, pump 22 stations and all the pipe that MSD is responsible 23 for. Right now we're projecting we'll spend 24 $700 million and, therefore, also our operation and 25 maintenance we will be under budget and on time. HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 14 1 Some of the wastewater operations, besides 2 plants and pump stations, includes inspecting 62,000 3 manholes, rehabilitating 6600 manholes, lining 1900 4 miles of pipe and probably more importantly as a 5 measure as to what all this work has resulted in is 6 the overflows that come out of our system during wet 7 weather that either discharge to the community -- to 8 the rivers and streams or else back-up into 9 basements. 10 We compared two similar storms that were 11 separated years apart to try and measure that 12 effectiveness. Based on that calculation, we're 13 estimating that as of today we've reduced by about 14 66 percent the number of basement backups that occur 15 due to overcharged systems. 16 Proposed wastewater rates, what is the 17 driver? Again, it is regulatory requirements coming 18 out of our Consent Decree. There are three ways we 19 are addressing the overflows in the sanitary system 20 which either discharge to the environment or result 21 in basement backups. 22 First one is get the rain out. MSD has 23 overflows when it rains. If it is not raining, like 24 today, unless somebody flushes grease down our pipes 25 and blocks them up, or in case we have a failure of HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 15 1 a pipe, all the wastewater on a day like this goes 2 in the pipes, goes to the treatment plants, gets 3 treated, discharged to the creeks and there are no 4 overflows either in basements or the environment. 5 The problem is when it rains. Therefore, one 6 of the main ways we're going to -- the main ways 7 we're going to approach reducing those overflows is 8 to get the rain out, intercept the stormwater before 9 it ends up in those sewers. You got places where 10 stormwater is never supposed to be in the system 11 that's getting there and other places where we have 12 to reduce the amount that's getting in there. 13 That is the cheapest way for us to approach 14 the issue. If we were to build a bigger system we 15 suspect our program would be four to five times 16 larger in cost if we built a bigger system. It's 17 more cost-effective to get the stormwater out of the 18 system. 19 There's repair and maintenance, make sure we 20 repair and maintain the existing system so it 21 continues to last for a long time. And there are 22 some places where we'll have to build system 23 improvements in order to change the way the system 24 is layed out. 25 We want to do this in a financially HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 16 1 responsible manner to keep MSD stable. Right now 2 MSD's bond ratings are AAA with S&P, AA1 and AA plus 3 with Fitch and Moody's. The plan we've layed out, 4 the financing plan for long-term is set so that we 5 never go below the parameters and that we plan on 6 never going below a AA bond rating for borrowing 7 money in order to complete the program. 8 When does the wastewater program -- what does 9 this proposal include? Includes the start of 10 $1.5 billion of capital work over those four years. 11 The start of those projects are shown on this chart 12 here from 2017 through 2020, so coming to a 13 four-year program of $1.5 billion. 14 We're estimating $736 million in revenues are 15 needed to operate and maintain the stormwater 16 system, the sanitary system, the wastewater system 17 over those four years, as well as there will be 18 $477 million of debt service. This comes from a 19 previous bond issued, paying off that interest, as 20 well as anticipated bond sales, assuming the voters 21 approve it, that will occur over the four-year 22 period from 2017 to 2020 as well. 23 How we plan on paying for the capital work. 24 We plan on using -- to pay for the $1.5 billion, 25 just over 400 million of it we're proposing we pay HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 17 1 directly from the rates you pay us. We'll take that 2 cash and immediately build some improvements. The 3 rest will be bond financed by selling an additional 4 $1.1 billion worth of bonds. That comes from 5 $200 million left over in the last rate cycle, plus 6 a request for the ratepayers to authorize an 7 additional $900 million in bonding authority. That 8 would bring our total debt authorization to 9 $2.62 billion. 10 And the thing to remember, any borrowed money 11 has to be spent on capital projects. It cannot be 12 used for our operating budget. 13 What do you get during those four years? 14 We'll start 600 projects. About 230 of those will 15 be construction projects. We'll remove 39 overflows 16 and we'll start the design of 24 miles of storage 17 conveyance tunnels. There are some overflows where 18 getting the water out before it enters the system is 19 not the solution. Some places we will have to 20 capture flows, store them in a tunnel or a large 21 underground storage, wait until the storm is over 22 and then we will feed them through the treatment 23 plant so that those flows can be treated. 24 Where the projects are, are on this map. I 25 know you can see a lot of blue dots. Within each HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 18 1 one of those blue dots is a number. That number 2 refers to a project and there's information 3 regarding what that project solves, what we're going 4 to do, how much it costs and when it would get done. 5 That information is available here tonight. 6 If you look over on the left-hand side there's a 7 copy of that map that you see right here. You can 8 read those numbers. In our Rate Proposal there's a 9 large spreadsheet describing each one of those 10 projects. We have a copy of that spreadsheet over 11 here on the table. 12 So you can look at that tonight or if you 13 went online and looked at our Rate Proposal there 14 you can see all this detailed information as well, 15 which describes every project we plan on doing for 16 the next four years. That's what the reference is 17 at the bottom. You see, "Appendix 7.2.2." So if 18 you have a copy of the presentation and went to that 19 in our Rate Proposal you would find the information 20 I described in our Rate Proposal. 21 The work we're planning on getting done, 22 besides the operation and maintenance of all the 23 treatment plants and pump stations in the District, 24 is to inspect 60,000 manholes, rehabilitate 6,000 25 manholes, inspect 1600 miles of sewers with HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 19 1 closed-circuit TV, clean 3800 miles of sewers, and 2 rehabilitate 360 miles of sewers. 3 How we pay for that is going to be up to the 4 ratepayers. If you look at the column on the left 5 called Option A, in that scenario we will be 6 presenting to the ratepayers a request to approve 7 $900 million of additional bond authorization. 8 If we do get -- if the vote is yes, then we 9 will start $1.5 billion worth of capital work over a 10 four-year period. What you see on the chart is the 11 average single-family wastewater bill. 2016 it's 12 just over $40 per month and you see it goes up about 13 10 percent per year, ending at just over $60 per 14 month on average in 2020. 15 The right-hand side is Option B and, again, 16 this will be up to the voters. The voters may 17 decide not to authorize the use of bonds. That is 18 their choice. If they decide not to we still have 19 to start $1.5 billion worth of capital work over the 20 next four years to comply with the Consent Decree 21 with the Federal Government and the Department of 22 Justice. 23 You see the resulting impact on the average 24 family bill, just over $40 in 16. The first year of 25 this rate cycle is 17, $44.72. That's the same HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 20 1 because we're using carried-over bonding authority 2 but after that we pay for everything with cash, 3 which results in an average monthly bill of 96 per 4 month in 2020. 5 Where does that put us nationwide? Depends 6 on where you live in the country but utilities of 7 our size are paying between 15 and $135 for 8 wastewater service right now. 9 Stormwater service. I want to explain first 10 the stormwater service that's being received and, 11 second, the changes we plan on making. 12 This is a map of the District's municipal 13 boundaries. To the right is the Mississippi River. 14 To the north is the Missouri River. To the south is 15 the Meramec River as it winds through our boundaries 16 and out to the west that line is about Highway 109 17 in Wildwood. Those are the limits of the District's 18 boundaries. 19 If you live in the red area, right now you 20 pay a 24 cent per month fee if you're a wastewater 21 customer, plus a 2 cent property tax. With that 22 amount of revenues MSD is able to meet its 23 regulatory requirements, state, federal and our own 24 requirements. We're also able to collect data on 25 stormwater issues and provide emergency response if HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 21 1 necessary. And, for us, an emergency is if creek 2 erosion is ready to drop a house into a creek. 3 That's the kind of emergency we're talking about. 4 So we can take care of those regulatory 5 issues but we do not maintain the public storm sewer 6 system. It is ours but we do not maintain it in 7 that area. We also cannot do any projects to 8 resolve stormwater issues. 9 If you live in the yellow area, which is the 10 City of St. Louis and near northwest and South 11 County, you pay a 24 cent per month fee on your 12 wastewater bill, a 2 cent property tax, as well as a 13 7 cent property tax. 14 With those revenues we're able to do all the 15 regulatory work described in the red area. We can 16 also pretty well maintain the public storm sewer 17 system. In the City of St. Louis that's mostly the 18 inlets, storm sewers as you get to the combined 19 system and some open channels. 20 What we are not able to do is do any projects 21 to fix stormwater problems such as erosion or 22 flooding. There are no funds to do that. 23 Finally, if you live in the green area, which 24 is just outside the city limits approximately and 25 out to about 270, you pay a 24 cent per month fee, 2 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 22 1 cent property tax, 7 cent property tax and up to 2 another 10 cent property tax. 3 With that, we're able to do all the 4 regulatory work that we do District-wide. We are 5 able to maintain the public storm sewer system and 6 we can, in that area, do projects to resolve 7 stormwater issues such as flooding or erosion 8 issues. 9 How much does that cost the average customer? 10 The average single-family home appraised at $142,000 11 within our boundaries. Based on that, if you live 12 in the red area, paying that 24 cent fee and 2 cent 13 property tax, the average customer is paying us $8 a 14 year for stormwater service if you're in the red 15 area. 16 If you're in the yellow area paying the 24 17 cent fee, the 2 cent tax, 7 cent tax, where we're 18 able to maintain the public storm sewer system, the 19 average person in that area is paying us $26 per 20 year on their annual property tax bill. 21 If you live in the green area you pay the 24 22 cent fee, 2 cent tax, 7 cent property tax and the 10 23 cent property tax. Those folks pay us an average of 24 $53 a year for stormwater service and they get 25 everything we can offer right now, which is HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 23 1 regulatory work, maintenance to the public storm 2 sewer system and projects to resolve stormwater 3 issues such as erosion and flooding. 4 So quick recap of getting to what it is that 5 MSD is looking to resolve. That 2 cent property 6 tax, if you notice, is located throughout the entire 7 District. We use that to comply with our regulatory 8 requirements. Those requirements come from the EPA, 9 MDNR and it ensures we're able to meet those. 10 Most of it goes towards our plan review and 11 permitting, when somebody redevelops or has issues, 12 also inspecting those projects when they're 13 completed and then policing them afterwards to make 14 sure all of those facilities are properly running. 15 We do provide complaint investigation so we 16 understand all the stormwater problems that are in 17 the entire District and, again, we can respond to 18 emergency responses. That 2 cent property tax is 19 the only tax that's collected District-wide. 20 What does that pay for? In this map there, 21 we have grayed out the yellow and green area. We 22 want to talk about just the red area, just kind of 23 the area out around the outside. On there you will 24 see blue lines. Those blue lines represent 1,154 25 miles of creeks that are in the area. It also HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 24 1 represents 2,638 best management practices in the 2 area. 3 These are mostly in place to make sure we 4 don't have an increase in runoff when somebody 5 redevelops. A big part of them have to do with the 6 quality of the creeks in the area, preventing 7 pollutants from stormwater runoff entering the 8 creeks and degrading them and polluting them. It 9 includes a monitoring of the condition of all those 10 creeks so we understand the current condition and 11 what the pollutant load is in them right now. 12 That work is all funded in the 2 cent 13 property tax. It takes care of all the work we have 14 to do District-wide and it's in pretty good shape. 15 The next slide is representative of the work 16 we do not currently have funding for. Those are all 17 black lines. They represent 1,363 miles of storm 18 sewers that are MSD's. They are the public storm 19 sewer system that does not receive any funding and 20 does not receive any operation or maintenance. 21 If there is something wrong with an inlet 22 that isn't causing an immediate safety issue we do 23 not do any work on it. If a storm sewer opens up 24 and starts causing a sinkhole in somebody's 25 backyard, we cannot fix that storm sewer. If the HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 25 1 discharge from storm sewer to creek causes erosion, 2 we can't do anything about it. There are not 3 currently funds in place to address that. 4 So we've got two issues. One, no funding for 5 about one half of our public storm sewer system and 6 the other piece is those folks who are then living 7 in that area also are not paying for the operation 8 and maintenance of any of the District's storm 9 sewers within its boundaries. If you drive on a 10 local road or street anywhere within MSD's 11 boundaries those are served by MSD's public storm 12 sewers and you're benefiting from us having that 13 system in place. 14 What we are proposing. Our proposal will 15 result in operation and maintenance costs of 16 approximately $91 million over the four-year period 17 from 2017 to 2020 and will also allow us for the 18 first time to do six years or a hundred million 19 dollars worth of work on stormwater problems 20 District-wide. 21 Again, the main driver is to make sure that 22 we can provide maintenance to the public storm sewer 23 system, which is MSD's responsibility throughout its 24 entire municipal boundaries. It also, again, does 25 initiate six years of funding for stormwater HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 26 1 projects District-wide. 2 I'll touch first on operating costs. In 3 Fiscal 16 the cost is about $16 million a year, 4 that's what we're coming up on, that's in the 5 current rate cycle to take care of about one half of 6 the public stormwater sewer system. We're proposing 7 an increase of approximately 50 percent to about 22, 8 $24 million per year. That's an increase right at 9 50 percent. 10 That will allow us to maintain twice as much 11 public storm sewer as we are now. There's an 12 economy of scale with us taking that on, so the cost 13 will double. It'll just go up 50 percent to allow 14 us to maintain the system District-wide. 15 It also results in District-wide stormwater 16 projects for the first time. Kind of starting from 17 the top I'll start at the green area. This map is 18 identical to the description I gave on the sanitary 19 sewers. Within each one of these little circles are 20 numbers and there's a spreadsheet that describes the 21 project, what it solves, how much it costs and when 22 it will be built. That's this map over here. 23 We also have a copy of the spreadsheet if 24 you're interested in looking at any of those 25 projects. HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 27 1 In that area we're proposing 64 projects 2 valued at about $25 million. Those projects 3 probably get built, most of them, regardless of the 4 result of the vote on the property tax. That's 5 being paid by property tax already in place for the 6 folks in the green area. The amount is slightly 7 bigger because some of those revenues were being 8 used to help maintain the public storm sewer system 9 in the green area of the District. 10 Next is the yellow area. There's 47 projects 11 identified for about seventeen and a half million 12 dollars. Approximately one half of those projects 13 are within the City of St. Louis. The other half 14 are on the near northwest and South County, just 15 outside the St. Louis City boundaries. 16 Again, no stormwater projects have been done 17 in those areas in the past. Passing a new 10 cent 18 District-wide property tax fixes an accounting issue 19 we have with how you can spend the monies and allows 20 us to free up that seventeen and one half million 21 dollars to resolve stormwater issues in the city and 22 near county, things like erosion and flooding. 23 Finally, in the red area, we're proposing 60 24 projects over that four-year period for seven and a 25 half million dollars. Again, haven't done any HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 28 1 projects in the past. Where that money comes from, 2 we are going to be requesting the voters consider a 3 10-cent-wide District property tax. If you pass 4 that, approximately just under 9 cents of that goes 5 towards operation and maintenance of the public 6 storm sewer system District-wide. 7 Whatever is left over we are committing to 8 put towards capital projects to start resolving some 9 of the more serious stormwater problems that exist 10 District-wide, things like erosion and flooding. 11 So what happens to all of those different 12 taxes I talked about previously? If the voters 13 approve a 10 cent property tax, the tax in the green 14 area that's between 5 and 10 cents, that tax will be 15 set at zero. We will no longer charge that 16 stormwater tax. 17 For the yellow area, which is the yellow and 18 green, the 7 cent property tax that the yellow and 19 green customers are paying, this 10 cent tax will 20 replace that. It will go away. 21 The District-wide 2 cent property tax, that 22 will stay in place. As I described, right now it's 23 set aside for regulatory issues. The revenues we 24 collect are just about equal to our current costs to 25 meet regulatory requirements for stormwater HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 29 1 District-wide. 2 And then, finally, on that fourth line you 3 see a proposed 10 cent District-wide property tax 4 and also the 24 cent per month charge for stormwater 5 that shows up on everybody's wastewater bill, that 6 will also be replaced if the voters approve a 10 7 cent District-wide property tax. 8 So what is the change in cost for all of our 9 customers? We will start with the green area. 10 Again, this is just outside the City of St. Louis 11 and generally inside 270. Currently with the 2 12 cent, 7 cent and up to 10 cent tax, you're paying -- 13 the average property value in that green area is 14 $184,500. Based on that, the average customer is 15 currently paying us about $62 per year for 16 stormwater service. 17 This proposal will lower that tax by about 18 $20 per year resulting in an average annual property 19 tax cost of about $42 per year for the average 20 customer. The change in the overall property tax 21 bill is a decrease of approximately one half of 22 1 percent. MSD's tax is a very small part of 23 somebody's property tax bill, so it has very little 24 impact on your overall property tax bill. 25 The next slide, the yellow area, which HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 30 1 includes the City of St. Louis, again, currently a 2 2 cent and 7 cent is being paid. The average property 3 value in that yellow area is $70,800. The average 4 customer right now is paying us $12.50 per year on 5 their property tax bill. 6 The proposed 10 cent tax would increase that 7 by about three and a half dollars per year, 8 resulting in the average person in the yellow area 9 paying a property tax bill for stormwater of $16 10 per -- $16.10 per year on your annual property tax 11 bill. 12 For the average customer that's a change of 13 three-tenths -- an increase of three-tenths of one 14 percent of your overall property tax bill. So for 15 every thousand dollars you pay in property tax it's 16 an increase of $3 per year. 17 So if you live in the red area -- and, again, 18 remember we're paying very little and we're 19 providing very little service. Currently the 20 property values in the red area, average property 21 value is approximately $266,700. With the 2 cent 22 tax the average customer in that red area is paying 23 us about $10.50 per year on your annual property tax 24 bill for stormwater. 25 This proposal will increase the average HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 31 1 annual amount by about $50 per year resulting in an 2 average annual property tax bill to customers in the 3 red area of about $60 per year for stormwater 4 service. Change in the total property tax bill is 5 an increase of about 1.2 percent or about $10 for 6 every thousand dollars of property tax that's paid. 7 Total customer impact. What we've done here 8 is we combined the stormwater and wastewater, put 9 them into annual -- average annual cost. We're 10 showing two scenarios. One, if the ratepayers 11 decide to grant the District additional bonding 12 authorization. The second, if they don't. 13 So if you look on the left-hand column this 14 is assuming approval. Right now in Fiscal 2016 15 you'll see that the average customer pays MSD $522 16 per year for all the services that MSD provides. 17 Assuming we have additional bonding authority 18 that will increase over the next four years to an 19 average annual cost for all of MSD services of about 20 $777 per year. 21 Right-hand column is assuming that no 22 additional bonding authority is granted and most of 23 the wastewater capital work is paid for directly 24 through the cash you receive on your monthly bill. 25 Again, we start at an average cost of $522 per year. HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 32 1 In that scenario by 2020 the average annual cost for 2 the average customer for all of MSD's services is 3 just under $1200 per year. 4 This next slide shows the customer assistance 5 program for low income residents. If somebody 6 qualifies as a low income resident MSD's charges are 7 cut in half. So if you compare this chart to the 8 previous one, you'll find the average annual costs 9 are about one half of what it is for everybody else 10 if you qualify for the low income assistance 11 program. 12 What the process looks like as we continue 13 on. Again, MSD submitted a proposal -- MSD staff 14 submitted a proposal to our Rate Commission on 15 February 26th. There will be a wastewater rate 16 increase on July 1, 2015, from the previous rate 17 cycle. That will be the last one that is allowed by 18 the previous Rate Commission decisions. 19 Rate Commission's recommendations, as were 20 described, are due to our board by August 2015. 21 MSD's board will consider their recommendations 22 between October and December 2015. 23 As we mentioned, there will be public comment 24 in a minute. If you wish to provide public comment, 25 on what you've seen, provide it here, otherwise you HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 33 1 can email us at jfenton at S-T-L-M-S-D dot com or 2 you can mail us your comments. Any way we receive 3 comments regarding the Rate Proposal will be 4 forwarded to the Rate Commission for their 5 consideration. 6 So what does this all result in? In Calendar 7 2016 MSD will be going to the voters for two issues. 8 The first has to do with wastewater. MSD will ask 9 the citizens whether they wish to authorize an 10 additional $900 million of bonding authority. 11 It's kind of like borrowing money for your 12 house. If the voters say yes, the average annual -- 13 the average monthly wastewater bill will go from 14 about $40 per month now to about $60 per month in 15 2020. 16 If they say no, they will pay $40 per month 17 now and eventually pay about $96 per month in 2020 18 for wastewater service. It's a decision the 19 ratepayers need to make. 20 Again, it's like buying a house or a car. If 21 you borrow money and keep the cost low now, every 22 dollar you borrow you do have to pay $2 back 23 sometime in the future but you do keep your rates 24 lower now. 25 You decide not to authorize additional bond HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 34 1 authority, the rates do go up now but as the program 2 peaks in 2023 or so and the cost of the program 3 goes down, you have a chance for rates to go down 4 faster the less money you borrow. It's a decision 5 we'll lay out in front of the voters. Prior to that 6 vote MSD will go out and do an education -- set of 7 education hearings and make sure everybody 8 understands what the options are and what the 9 consequences and results are whether they vote no or 10 yes. 11 The second election we'll hold will have to 12 do with stormwater and it will be fairly simple. 13 The question will be whether or not the residents 14 wish to institute a 10 cent District-wide stormwater 15 tax. If they do, we just described the program that 16 happens. Some people's taxes go up, some go down, 17 but it does allow us to provide District-wide 18 operation and maintenance of the public storm sewer 19 system and District-wide projects. 20 If the voters vote no, it will just maintain 21 the service level, as it was when I previously 22 described, with your service level and cost varying 23 depending on whether you live in the green, yellow 24 or red area of the District. It will be up to the 25 voters. HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 35 1 Again, it will be in 2016. The exact dates 2 of the elections we don't know yet. We'll decide 3 that as we near the end of Calendar 2015 but when we 4 are ready to go, again, we advertise and MSD will 5 provide public information meetings so everybody 6 understands what it is they're being requested to 7 consider. 8 That's the end of MSD's presentation and so, 9 as Mr. Tomazi had mentioned, now is the time if 10 anybody has any public comment they would like to 11 make for the record for the Rate Commission, now is 12 the time to go ahead and make those comments 13 MR. TOMAZI: Thank you, Mr. Hoelscher. 14 The first person that signed up is 15 Mr. Overmann. 16 MR. OVERMANN: I have nothing to say. 17 MR. TOMAZI: Nothing? 18 MR. OVERMANN: No. 19 MR. TOMAZI: Do you by chance have a 20 relative named Ron Overmann that was a barber? 21 MR. OVERMANN: Yes, I do. He's retired. 22 MR. TOMAZI: Is he really? 23 MR. OVERMANN: Yeah. 24 MR. TOMAZI: Long time ago. Another 25 story. HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 36 1 Okay. Second person then is Mr. Bob 2 Dittrich. 3 MR. DITTRICH: Yes. 4 MR. TOMAZI: Yes, sir. 5 MR. DITTRICH: Yeah, I just live close 6 to here and a lot of times I feel my sewer bills are 7 constantly getting higher and higher and I don't 8 have a water meter so there's no -- they say it's 9 estimated on water usage or estimated I guess 10 according to my water bill but right now I'm 11 paying -- the sewer bill is actually one and a half 12 times what I'm paying for water and I don't know it 13 seems to constantly go up and I'm kind of stuck with 14 it. 15 MR. TOMAZI: Thank you. Is there 16 anything you would like to respond with? 17 MR. HOELSCHER: Let me -- I'll kind of 18 finish the thought you had about how the bill 19 occurs. Because most of the city does not have 20 meters on their home, with the water coming in -- in 21 the county we take the actual meter value and that's 22 what we use. We assume that water goes down the 23 sewers. 24 In the city we bill for sewer the same way 25 the city bills for water. They're assuming that HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 37 1 your attributes in your home like water closets, 2 rooms, bathtubs, if there's sinks, there's other 3 parameters, they're assuming that you have a certain 4 utilization per attribute and that's how we're 5 estimating the amount of water usage. 6 Now, I will tell you for the first time in 7 quite a while we went back and did a study about how 8 much we're charging per attribute for the city, 9 residents who are not metered. We found that based 10 on changes in usage there was appropriately proposed 11 to the Rate Commission and upfront 9 percent 12 decrease in the sewer bill for city customers who 13 were unmetered. So we started there. 14 Now, the rates are going up on top of that 15 but if you're a city customer you will find your 16 rates -- first step is to go down 9 percent prior to 17 doing the increases and that was based on a study 18 and analysis we did of the approximate usage for 19 average homes of certain characteristics. 20 MR. DITTRICH: And as far as like with 21 my water bill, every month the sewer bill is 22 actually like one and a half times that and it's 23 like -- 24 MR. HOELSCHER: I will tell you it is 25 always harder to clean dirty water than it is to HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 38 1 make water from the Mississippi drinkable. That is 2 just reflective of that. 3 MR. TOMAZI: Thank you, Mr. Dittrich. 4 Mr. Villa? 5 MR. VILLA: Yeah, Brian, can I ask you a 6 couple questions? 7 MR. HOELSCHER: Yes, sir. 8 MR. VILLA: The average appraisal in the 9 city, that just seems low to me, 70,800. 10 MR. HOELSCHER: Well, that is the 11 average appraised value in that entire yellow area 12 if you look at our map. So it's not just the City 13 of St. Louis, near North County, near West County -- 14 MR. VILLA: But it's the entire city? 15 MR. HOELSCHER: It's the city plus an 16 additional area. If you go to the colored map, keep 17 going, okay, right there. So the city boundaries 18 are about right here and there are areas included 19 for property values in near North County, West and 20 South County. So what we're looking at, that's the 21 assessment as we looked up on the chart. That's the 22 average assessment for all the properties that are 23 on the yellow area on this map. Most of it's the 24 city but they're also near northwest county as well. 25 MR. VILLA: Just seems low to me for the HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 39 1 areas of -- some of the areas of South St. Louis 2 that I represent that seems low. 3 MR. HOELSCHER: It probably is. It 4 probably is. It's an average for the entire area. 5 MR. VILLA: Okay. I'm questioning why 6 do you -- is it an executive decision to hold 7 separate elections? 8 MR. HOELSCHER: We don't know if they'll 9 hold them separate or have them occur at the same 10 time. I guess I didn't mention it is possible we 11 will take an election date and vote on both of them 12 at the same time. It's something we haven't 13 decided. 14 Now, they are two separate issues and they 15 will be two separate ballot initiatives but that is 16 also a possibility that we will do them all at the 17 same time if it made sense, if it was 18 cost-effective, if we felt we were able to get the 19 message out. That is a possibility. 20 MR. VILLA: I guess if you narrow the 21 focus you have a better chance of educating the 22 electorate separately. That's just an editorial 23 comment. 24 MR. HOELSCHER: It is not a completely 25 understandable issue, yes. Past experiences we had HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 40 1 them do them separately and it's much easier to 2 understand. 3 MR. VILLA: Is it fair to ask, does the 4 Rate Commission have the -- do you have the poetic 5 license to reduce these numbers before you go to the 6 voters or not? 7 MR. TOMAZI: Yes, we do. One of the -- 8 the Rate Commission has retained, on its own as part 9 of its activities, a rate consultant and our rate 10 consultant is, in fact, putting together testimony 11 as to its interpretation as to what the District is 12 asking. And it will be up to the Rate Commission to 13 review those two, perhaps, differing opinions as to 14 what is or is not an appropriate rate and go from 15 there. 16 I will say this, yes, there's probably some 17 discretion certainly on rates but I do want to 18 remind you and I know that Mr. Hoelscher mentioned 19 this in the beginning, is that Metropolitan St. 20 Louis Sewer District is under a Consent Decree with 21 the U.S. Department of Justice and that Consent 22 Decree was finally entered into after extensive 23 negotiations. 24 As it turns out, the Decree entered into with 25 the U.S. Department of Justice is significantly HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 41 1 different than an arrangement or a tentative 2 agreement that it had reached with the State of 3 Missouri, which was a smaller capital program not -- 4 with the expenditures not as front-end loaded, Mr. 5 Villa, as they are with the 6 Federal-Government-imposed. So there was a -- the 7 Federal Government's requirement was quite a bit. 8 Now, what that has done is that apparently is 9 driving every item that is in the capital budget for 10 the wastewater plan, every item. And so in one 11 sense the District is under this Decree and 12 sometimes we tease Mr. Hoelscher about, you know, if 13 he doesn't we could let the Department of Justice 14 carry him off and throw him in the pokey if things 15 don't go well but we don't want to do that because 16 we have professional leadership in the District, not 17 only at the top level, but throughout all of the 18 ranks. 19 So the answer is, sort of a long way around, 20 but the answer is the Rate Commission does have the 21 authority to recommend a different rate structure 22 but the final decision is still on the Board of 23 Trustees. And so if they are not happy with what we 24 have proposed they can reject, they can amend, or 25 they can adopt whatever we propose. HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 42 1 So they take typically about two months after 2 the Rate Commission's final report is put together 3 to go over it and think about it and finally make a 4 decision on it. 5 MR. VILLA: Thank you. And, in closing, 6 I certainly, as a local elected official, I applaud 7 MSD's efforts to have meetings like this and, 8 unfortunately, it will be people like me that I 9 think will have to go out and at neighborhood 10 meetings explain, you know, what's going on. 11 And it's lamentable that more of the public 12 didn't show up but I think it looks to me like the 13 way you got this gauged it certainly -- I mean, the 14 bonding capacity, you being your own political 15 subdivision, is clearly the way to go. 16 And I try to explain it, we're kind of paying 17 for the sins of our mothers and fathers who 18 polluted, who didn't have the good common sense to 19 do anything about it for most of my lifetime and now 20 all of sudden, you know, the government said, hey, 21 enough. 22 So, anyway, I thank you for coming to 23 Carondelet Park. I thank you for your efforts to 24 reach out to the general public. I noticed the TV 25 campaign is going and I think city residents are HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 43 1 going to have a lot of decisions to make in terms of 2 how our tax dollars are allocated. 3 We're going to try to get a general 4 obligation bond issued as soon as this coming 5 Thursday morning at the Board of Aldermen. We're 6 going to have an attempt to raise taxes for 7 additional police, so I just think it's important 8 that, you know, that the general public has the 9 opportunity to learn about this stuff if they want 10 and thank you for coming. 11 MR. HOELSCHER: Alderman, what I will 12 offer is outside of these proceedings if you have 13 certain community meetings, it won't be official 14 Rate Commission meetings, we can do the same 15 presentation if you have groups you'd like for us to 16 do that for. 17 MR. VILLA: Okay. Thank you. 18 MR. TOMAZI: As a personal note, I would 19 like to thank you for your years of public service 20 for the city. It's always deeply appreciated. 21 MR. VILLA: Thank you. 22 MR. TOMAZI: The fourth speaker is 23 Mr. Patrick Dwyer. 24 MR. DWYER: I just had a couple 25 questions. I guess you guys have had several of HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 44 1 these meetings before. Has there been more public 2 input or interest in these or how has that been 3 going? 4 MR. TOMAZI: One other housekeeping 5 thing I should have mentioned is that I have some 6 hearing difficulties and sometimes my wife accuses 7 me of having selective hearing. 8 MR. DWYER: I get the same thing. 9 MR. TOMAZI: But I'm doing the best that 10 I can. So if you could interpret, Brian. 11 MR. HOELSCHER: I'll give you a couple 12 things. One, and it's up here, there is a sheet of 13 the other Rate Commission meetings going to be held 14 throughout the area. It's on the sheet called "MSD 15 Rate Commission." It also lists the organizations 16 and names of the groups. 17 Attendance of these have varied between one 18 and nine. Now, MSD has been talking about this in 19 public for about two years. Staff took it on itself 20 to make sure we educated all the leader -- public 21 officials, the mayors and their staffs in the 22 cities, the 91 cities in our area. We did that for 23 about a year. 24 Prior to and right at the time we gave this 25 proposal to the Rate Commission we went out, and not HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 45 1 just -- not in public hearings, but MSD went out and 2 scheduled meetings throughout the area to describe 3 what it is we're going to talk about. We also 4 presented in other community meetings if somebody 5 wished us to. We have these public meetings and 6 then the board process will be a public process and 7 then during the election we'll have more of those. 8 As far as advertising, the Rate Commission's 9 requirements for advertising go up every year and 10 rightly so. You will find that we've tried 11 advertising in the newspaper, radio, TV, public 12 social media, billboards. We stopped short of smoke 13 signals. We didn't do those. But we tried 14 everything we can to get the word out. 15 Our history has been people really start 16 thinking about it right before the elections come 17 and that's why we will put the resources forward to 18 have another full discussion to make sure everybody 19 understands what it is they're being asked to 20 consider. So we'll try a bunch of times to catch 21 them as often as we possibly can. 22 MSD STAFF MEMBER: And you also have the 23 presentation on the website. 24 MR. HOELSCHER: Oh, and the presentation 25 is on the website where I gave one of our previous HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 46 1 ones. You can either look at this presentation or 2 they have filmed me giving this in one of those 3 meetings. So somebody can actually look at those on 4 the website if anybody's ever interested. 5 MR. DWYER: Okay. So if you want to get 6 further education you would direct us towards the 7 website? 8 MR. HOELSCHER: The website is the best 9 place. It also has contact names if folks want to 10 contact somebody for information. 11 MR. DWYER: My other question, I guess 12 my second question, after all this is done -- we 13 live by the Grant's Trail and the Gravois Creek and 14 there's I believe it's your signage out there that 15 says, "Don't swim, fish or play in the water." 16 Do we see those signs going away I guess 17 after this work is done or improvements have been 18 made? 19 MR. HOELSCHER: When the entire set of 20 improvements are done, there is a 23-year program, 21 it's about $4.7 billion and we're right now in the 22 third year of that, the wastewater work, Mr. Tomazi 23 had mentioned it's also Consent-Decree-driven, if we 24 eliminate those overflows we pull the signs up. 25 So I want to mention -- I don't know that HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 47 1 Gravois Creek is on the front end of the program. 2 Mr. Unverferth over here, our director of 3 engineering, if you give him the specific area he 4 can either give you a sense tonight or get back to 5 you and say exactly when the work in that area will 6 get to the point where there are no more overflows 7 and, therefore, we can pull the signs up. 8 MR. DWYER: Thank you. My last question 9 is just an educational thing. I'm aware of the 10 Public Service Commission and what they do as far as 11 regulatory -- utility oversight I guess. How does 12 the Rate Commission compare with the Public Service 13 Commission? I guess I don't know. 14 MR. HOELSCHER: Right. The Public 15 Service Commission is set up to regulate for-profit 16 utilities. 17 MR. DWYER: Okay. 18 MR. HOELSCHER: Therefore, we would not 19 fall under, nor would we suspect they'd accept our 20 process. What was done in 2000, some stakeholders 21 proposed that we propose to the voters that we put 22 in our Charter the requirement to have a Rate 23 Commission, local rate commission, set up along the 24 lines of a Public Service Commission. 25 So this Commission has been in place since HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 48 1 2000, based on that vote, and they serve almost an 2 identical function. It's very much like a court 3 setting. As Mr. Tomazi described earlier on, we're 4 kind of in the middle of that process with 5 testimony, cross-examination and submittal of 6 documents. That's what this Rate Commission -- now, 7 this Rate Commission doesn't get paid anything. 8 They're all volunteers. But the structure is very 9 similar to a Public Service Commission structure. 10 MR. DWYER: Okay. Thank you. 11 MR. TOMAZI: We are the unpaid public 12 Service Commission for MSD. 13 MR. DWYER: Well, you guys should be 14 commended for your efforts. It's a big job. 15 MR. TOMAZI: Thank you. That concludes 16 all the persons who have signed up to speak tonight. 17 Do you, Commissioner O'Connell, have any 18 questions or comments? 19 MR. O'CONNELL: No, sir. 20 MR. TOMAZI: Seeing none, I would like 21 to thank all of you for your participation in coming 22 here tonight. 23 The next public hearing of the MSD Rate 24 Commission is May 20th, 2015, six o'clock p.m. at 25 the Center of Clayton. Therefore, this public HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 49 1 hearing is adjourned. Thank you very much for 2 coming. We appreciate it. 3 - - - - - 4 (Hearing concluded at 7:03 p.m.) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES Page 50 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 I, Suzanne Zes, within and for the State 3 of Missouri, do hereby certify that the witness 4 whose testimony appears in the foregoing deposition 5 was duly sworn by me; the testimony of said witness 6 was taken by me to the best of my ability and 7 thereafter reduced to typewriting under my 8 direction; that I am neither counsel for, related 9 to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action 10 in which this deposition was taken, and further that 11 I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or 12 counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor 13 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome 14 of the action. 15 16 ______________________________ 17 Certified Court Reporter 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES A AA 16:2,6 AAA 16:2 AA1 16:2 ability 50:6 able 20:22,24 21:14,20 22:3,5 22:18 23:9 39:18 accept 47:19 accounting 27:18 accuses 44:6 action 50:9,14 activities 40:9 actual 10:18 36:21 addition 11:23 additional 7:10 17:3,7 19:7 31:11,17,22 33:10,25 38:16 43:7 address 25:3 addressing 13:10 14:19 adjourned 49:1 adopt 41:25 adopted 6:9,12 6:24 advertise 35:4 advertising 45:8 45:9,11 ago 35:24 agreement 41:2 ahead 35:12 Alderman 43:11 Aldermen 43:5 allocated 43:2 allow 25:17 26:10,13 34:17 allowed 32:17 allows 27:19 amend 41:24 amended 5:11 6:25 American 8:6 amount 15:12 20:22 27:6 31:1 37:5 analysis 37:18 annual 12:7 22:20 29:18 30:10,23 31:1,2 31:9,9,19 32:1 32:8 33:12 answer 9:22 41:19,20 anticipated 16:20 anybody 35:10 anybody's 46:4 anyway 42:22 apart 14:11 apparently 41:8 appears 13:8 50:4 Appendix 18:17 applaud 42:6 application 7:2 applications 7:3 7:5 appraisal 38:8 appraised 22:10 38:11 appreciate 49:2 appreciated 43:20 approach 15:7 15:13 appropriate 40:14 appropriately 37:10 approval 31:14 approve 16:21 19:6 28:13 29:6 approved 6:18 6:19,20 13:5 approximate 37:18 approximately 10:10 21:24 25:16 26:7 27:12 28:4 29:21 30:21 area 10:9 20:19 21:7,9,15,23 22:6,12,15,16 22:19,21 23:21 23:22,23,25 24:2,6 25:7 26:17 27:1,6,9 27:10,23 28:14 28:17 29:9,13 29:25 30:3,8,17 30:20,22 31:3 34:24 38:11,16 38:23 39:4 44:14,22 45:2 47:3,5 areas 27:17 38:18 39:1,1 arrangement 41:1 aside 28:23 asked 13:16,20 45:19 asking 40:12 assessment 38:21 38:22 assistance 32:4 32:10 Association 7:4 assume 36:22 assuming 16:20 31:14,17,21 36:25 37:3 attempt 43:6 Attendance 44:17 attorney 50:11 attribute 37:4,8 attributes 37:1 August 6:16 32:20 authority 17:7 20:1 31:17,22 33:10 34:1 41:21 authorization 17:8 19:7 31:12 authorize 17:6 19:17 33:9,25 available 18:5 Avenue 1:13 3:5 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17:10 borrowing 16:6 33:11 bottom 18:17 boundaries 10:16 20:13,15 20:18 22:11 25:9,11,24 27:15 38:17 Brian 4:11 9:12 38:5 44:10 brief 7:21 bring 17:8 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES budget 13:12,25 17:12 41:9 build 15:14,22 17:2 Builders 7:4 built 15:16 26:22 27:3 bunch 45:20 buying 33:20 C C 4:1 5:1 calculation 14:12 Calendar 33:6 35:3 called 8:16 19:5 44:14 campaign 42:25 capacity 42:14 capital 13:7,10 13:18 16:10,23 17:11 19:9,19 28:8 31:23 41:3 41:9 capture 17:20 car 33:20 care 21:4 24:13 26:5 Carondelet 1:12 3:4 42:23 carried-over 20:1 carry 41:14 case 14:25 cases 11:19 cash 17:2 20:2 31:24 catch 45:20 causes 25:1 causing 24:22,24 cent 20:20,21 21:11,12,13,25 22:1,1,2,12,12 22:17,17,17,22 22:22,22,23 23:5,18 24:12 27:17 28:13,18 28:19,21 29:3,4 29:7,12,12,12 30:2,2,6,21 34:14 Center 48:25 cents 28:4,14 certain 37:3,19 43:13 certainly 40:17 42:6,13 CERTIFICATE 50:1 Certified 3:6 50:17 certify 50:3 chance 34:3 35:19 39:21 change 6:7 7:1 8:11 9:1 10:9 12:16 15:23 29:8,20 30:12 31:4 changes 5:14 6:7 6:19 12:19 20:11 37:10 channels 11:19 21:19 characteristics 37:19 charge 11:9 28:15 29:4 charges 32:6 charging 37:8 chart 16:11 19:10 32:7 38:21 Charter 5:11,17 12:16 47:22 cheapest 15:13 choice 19:18 circles 26:19 cities 44:22,22 citizens 33:9 city 6:5 21:10,17 21:24 27:13,15 27:21 29:10 30:1 36:19,24 36:25 37:8,12 37:15 38:9,12 38:14,15,17,24 42:25 43:20 Clayton 48:25 clean 19:1 37:25 clearly 42:15 clipboard 8:22 close 9:20 36:5 closed-circuit 19:1 closets 37:1 closing 42:5 clothes 11:2 Club 4:3 collect 20:24 28:24 collected 23:19 collecting 11:1 collects 12:8 colored 38:16 column 19:4 31:13,21 com 10:21 33:1 combined 21:18 31:8 come 12:23 14:6 23:8 45:16 comes 16:18 17:4 28:1 coming 14:17 16:12 26:4 36:20 42:22 43:4,10 48:21 49:2 commended 48:14 comment 8:12,14 32:23,24 35:10 39:23 comments 9:18 9:21 33:2,3 35:12 48:18 commercial-in... 5:22 commission 4:2 5:4,13,20,21 6:3,6,9,13,15 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29:8,19 31:9,19,25 32:1 33:21 34:2,22 costs 18:4 25:15 26:2,21 28:24 32:8 cost-effective 15:17 39:18 Council 4:5 counsel 6:22 50:8 50:12 country 20:6 county 6:5 21:11 27:14,22 36:21 38:13,13,19,20 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES 38:24 couple 38:6 43:24 44:11 court 3:6 4:20 48:2 50:17 cover 13:3 covers 13:1 creek 11:17 21:1 21:2 25:1 46:13 47:1 creeks 11:20,21 12:2 15:3 23:25 24:6,8,10 cross-examinat... 48:5 current 13:3 24:10 26:5 28:24 currently 6:3 10:11,12 11:12 13:4 24:16 25:3 29:11,15 30:1 30:19 customer 20:21 22:9,13 29:14 29:20 30:4,12 30:22 31:7,15 32:2,4 37:15 customers 11:10 28:19 29:9 31:2 37:12 cut 32:7 cycle 13:20 17:5 19:25 26:5 32:17 D D 2:1 5:1 data 20:24 date 39:11 dates 8:7 35:1 day 3:4 15:1 debt 16:18 17:8 December 32:22 decide 19:17,18 31:11 33:25 35:2 decided 39:13 decision 33:18 34:4 39:6 41:22 42:4 decisions 32:18 43:1 decrease 29:21 37:12 Decree 10:4,7 13:11 14:18 19:20 40:20,22 40:24 41:11 deem 9:3 deeply 43:20 degrading 24:8 Department 10:5 19:21 40:21,25 41:13 depending 34:23 Depends 20:5 deposition 50:4 50:10 describe 45:2 described 18:20 21:15 28:22 32:20 34:15,22 48:3 describes 18:15 26:20 describing 7:19 18:9 description 7:21 26:18 design 17:16 detail 10:19 detailed 18:14 determination 12:23 difference 13:15 13:16 different 28:11 41:1,21 differing 40:13 difficulties 44:6 direct 46:6 direction 50:8 directly 11:17 17:1 31:23 director 4:11 9:13 47:2 dirty 37:25 discharge 11:17 14:7,20 25:1 discharged 11:6 15:3 discovery 7:9 discretion 40:17 discussion 45:18 dishwashers 11:2 District 1:8 3:2 5:11,14,16,24 8:10,13 9:7 18:23 23:7,17 27:9 28:3 31:11 34:24 40:11,20 41:11,16 District's 5:19 6:8 20:12,17 25:8 District-wide 10:14 22:4 23:19 24:14 25:20 26:1,14 26:15 27:18 28:6,10,21 29:1 29:3,7 34:14,17 34:19 Dittrich 2:7 36:2 36:3,5 37:20 38:3 documents 7:14 7:20 48:6 doing 18:15 37:17 44:9 dollar 33:22 dollars 25:19 27:12,21,25 30:7,15 31:6 43:2 door 8:22 9:4 dot 10:21,21 33:1 dots 17:25 18:1 double 26:13 drinkable 38:1 drive 25:9 driven 10:3 driver 14:17 25:21 driving 41:9 drop 21:2 due 14:15 32:20 duly 50:5 Dwyer 2:9 43:23 43:24 44:8 46:5 46:11 47:8,17 48:10,13 E E 2:1 4:1,1 5:1,1 earlier 48:3 easier 40:1 economy 26:12 editorial 39:22 educated 44:20 educating 39:21 education 34:6,7 46:6 educational 47:9 effectiveness 14:12 efficiency 13:13 efforts 42:7,23 48:14 either 9:22 14:7 14:20 15:4 46:1 47:4 elected 42:6 election 5:12 34:11 39:11 45:7 elections 35:2 39:7 45:16 electorate 39:22 Eleventh 4:22 eliminate 46:24 email 33:1 emergency 20:25 21:1,3 23:18 employed 50:9 50:12 employee 50:11 ends 15:9 Energy 7:5 engaged 6:21 7:9 engineering 47:3 Engineers 4:3 ensure 5:18 ensures 23:9 entered 40:22,24 entering 24:7 enters 17:18 entire 23:6,17 25:24 38:11,14 39:4 46:19 environment 14:20 15:4 environmental 5:25 EPA 10:5 11:6 23:8 equal 28:24 erosion 21:2,21 22:7 23:3 25:1 27:22 28:10 established 5:13 12:15 estimated 36:9,9 estimating 14:13 16:14 37:5 evening 3:3,4 5:3 5:3,6 9:7 eventually 33:17 everybody 32:9 34:7 35:5 45:18 everybody's 12:6 29:5 exact 35:1 exactly 47:5 examined 3:2 executive 4:11 9:12 39:6 exhibits 2:14 exist 28:9 existing 15:20 expand 9:2 expenditures 41:4 experiences HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES 39:25 explain 20:9 42:10,16 extended 6:13 extensive 40:22 F facilities 23:14 fact 40:10 failure 14:25 fair 5:18 40:3 fairly 34:12 fall 47:19 falls 11:16 family 19:24 far 13:19 37:20 45:8 47:10 faster 34:4 fathers 42:17 Fax 4:24 February 6:6 7:7 32:15 federal 19:21 20:23 41:7 Federal-Gover... 41:6 fee 20:20 21:11 21:25 22:12,17 22:22 feed 17:22 feel 36:6 felt 39:18 filed 7:3,11 10:4 filmed 46:2 final 12:23 41:22 42:2 finally 21:23 27:23 29:2 40:22 42:3 financed 17:3 financially 15:25 50:13 financing 16:4 find 10:13 18:19 32:8 37:15 45:10 finish 36:18 first 13:3 14:22 19:24 20:9 25:18 26:2,16 33:8 35:14 37:6 37:16 Fiscal 26:3 31:14 fish 46:15 Fitch 16:3 five 15:15 fix 21:21 24:25 fixes 27:18 flooding 21:22 22:7 23:3 27:22 28:10 floor 9:17 flows 17:20,23 flushes 14:24 focus 39:21 focusing 5:25 folks 22:23 25:6 27:6 46:9 followed 8:14 foregoing 50:4 forward 45:17 forwarded 33:4 for-profit 47:15 found 37:9 four 13:17 15:15 16:10,17 17:13 18:16 19:20 31:18 fourth 29:2 43:22 four-year 16:13 16:21 19:10 25:16 27:24 free 27:20 front 34:5 47:1 front-end 41:4 full 10:22 45:18 function 48:2 funded 11:9 24:12 funding 10:11 24:16,19 25:4 25:25 funds 10:9 21:22 25:3 further 46:6 50:10 future 33:23 G G 5:1 gauged 42:13 general 5:12 42:24 43:3,8 generally 29:11 George 4:3 5:3 getting 13:15 15:11,12 17:18 18:21 23:4 36:7 give 10:20 44:11 47:3,4 giving 46:2 go 10:20,21 12:9 16:5 26:13 28:20 33:13 34:1,3,6,16,16 35:4,12 36:13 37:16 38:16 40:5,14 41:15 42:3,9,15 45:9 goes 11:4 15:1,2 19:12 23:10 28:4 34:3 36:22 going 9:13 15:6,7 16:6 18:3 19:3 28:2 33:7 37:14 38:17 42:10,25 43:1,3,6 44:3 44:13 45:3 46:16 good 5:3 24:14 42:18 govern 6:10 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17:2 impact 19:23 29:24 31:7 impacts 12:2 important 43:7 importantly 14:4 improvements 15:23 17:2 46:17,20 include 16:9 included 38:18 includes 14:2 16:9 24:9 30:1 including 5:24 income 32:5,6,10 increase 24:4 26:7,8 30:6,13 30:16,25 31:5 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES increases 37:17 independent 6:22 Industrial 7:5 information 10:20 18:2,5,14 18:19 35:5 46:10 initiate 25:25 initiatives 39:15 inlet 24:21 inlets 11:18 21:18 input 12:16 44:2 inside 29:11 inspect 18:24,25 inspecting 14:2 23:12 institute 34:14 institutions 6:4 intended 11:22 intercept 15:8 interest 16:19 44:2 interested 5:23 26:24 46:4 50:13 interpret 44:10 interpretation 40:11 intervene 7:2,3 7:24 Intervenors 7:10 Introduction 2:3 investigation 23:15 involving 9:21 issue 7:22 15:14 24:22 27:18 39:25 issued 16:19 43:4 issues 5:25,25 6:1 7:13,19 12:11 12:13 13:11 20:25 21:5,8 22:7,8 23:3,11 25:4 27:21 28:23 33:7 39:14 item 41:9,10 It'll 26:13 J 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17:5,7 19:7 25:16,18 26:3,8 27:2,11,20,25 33:10 minute 32:24 minutes 9:1 Mississippi 11:7 20:13 38:1 Missouri 1:14 3:6,7 7:4 11:7 20:14 41:3 50:3 MO 4:23 modified 6:19 money 16:7 17:10 28:1 33:11,21 34:4 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES monies 27:19 monitoring 24:9 month 19:12,14 20:4,20 21:11 21:25 29:4 33:14,14,16,17 37:21 monthly 11:9,10 11:11,13 12:6 20:3 31:24 33:13 months 42:1 Moody's 16:3 morning 43:5 mothers 42:17 MSD 4:2 5:4,8,17 6:3,13,15,15,17 6:21,23 7:7,8 9:13,14,21 10:8 10:24 11:11 12:8,17,19 13:22 14:22 16:1 20:22 23:5 31:15,16,19 32:13,13 33:7,8 34:6 35:4 44:14 44:18 45:1,22 48:12,23 MSD's 9:15 10:16 11:10 16:2 24:18 25:10,11,23 29:22 32:2,6,21 35:8 42:7 municipal 10:16 20:12 25:24 M-S-D 10:21 N N 2:1 4:1 5:1 name 9:12 named 35:20 names 8:17 44:16 46:9 narrow 39:20 nationwide 20:5 near 21:10 27:14 27:22 35:3 38:13,13,19,24 necessary 9:3 21:1 need 33:19 needed 16:15 negotiations 40:23 neighborhood 42:9 neither 50:8 never 15:10 16:5 16:6 new 27:17 newspaper 45:11 nine 8:1 44:18 nonprofit 6:2 north 4:22 20:14 38:13,19 northwest 21:10 27:14 38:24 note 43:18 notice 6:7 8:4 23:6 noticed 42:24 Notices 8:7 November 5:12 number 14:14 18:1,1 numbers 10:19 18:8 26:20 40:5 O O 5:1 obligation 43:4 occur 14:14 16:21 39:9 occurs 36:19 October 32:22 offer 22:25 43:12 officer 9:2 official 42:6 43:13 officials 44:21 Oh 45:24 okay 36:1 38:17 39:5 43:17 46:5 47:17 48:10 ones 46:1 online 18:13 on-the-record 7:25 open 9:17 21:19 opens 24:23 operate 13:21 16:15 operated 10:12 operating 17:12 26:2 operation 5:24 13:19,24 18:22 24:20 25:7,15 28:5 34:18 Operational 6:9 operations 14:1 opinions 40:13 opportunity 7:1 8:12 43:9 Option 19:5,15 options 34:8 order 8:16,23 11:20 15:23 16:7 organizations 5:18,21,23,24 6:2,2,4 8:18 12:17 44:15 originally 11:22 outcome 50:13 outside 21:24 23:23 27:15 29:10 43:12 overall 29:20,24 30:14 overcharged 14:15 overflows 14:6 14:19,23 15:4,7 17:15,17 46:24 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41:10 planned 13:7 planning 18:21 plant 17:23 plants 11:5 13:21 14:2 15:2 18:23 play 46:15 please 8:21 9:10 plenty 9:22 plus 16:2 17:5 20:21 38:15 poetic 40:4 point 47:6 pokey 41:14 police 43:7 policing 12:3 HEARING 5/19/2015 www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES 23:13 political 42:14 pollutant 24:11 pollutants 11:24 11:25 24:7 polluted 42:18 polluting 24:8 position 7:22 possibility 39:16 39:19 possible 39:10 possibly 45:21 Post-Dispatch 8:6 potable 11:10 practices 24:1 Prehearing 7:12 7:17,18,18 prepared 7:14,20 present 4:10 8:10 8:21 9:13 12:24 presentation 2:4 8:13 9:17 18:18 35:8 43:15 45:23,24 46:1 presented 45:4 presenting 19:6 presiding 5:5 9:2 pretty 21:16 24:14 preventing 24:6 previous 16:19 32:8,16,18 45:25 previously 7:14 28:12 34:21 prices 13:14 primarily 10:3 prior 34:5 37:16 44:24 probably 14:4 27:3 39:3,4 40:16 problem 15:5 problems 21:21 23:16 25:19 28:9 procedural 6:10 6:12,24 procedure 9:7 proceed 9:8,10 12:24 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