HomeMy Public PortalAbout04-13-2004PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES — APRIL 13, 2004
PRESENT: BILL LOE, MARILYN FORTIN, ELIZABETH WEIR, LENNY LEUER AND
MARY VERBICK. ALSO PRESENT: CITY ADMINISTRATOR CHAD
ADAMS, CITY ENGINEER TOM KELLOGG, DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC
WORKS JIM DILLMAN AND CITY PLANNER JOSH DOTY.
ABSENT: RON JOHNSON AND DICK PICARD
1. Chairperson Elizabeth Weir called the meeting to order at 7:02 p.m. Ms. Weir reminded
everyone the Planning commission is a recommending body and the City Council makes the
final decisions.
2. RICHARD AND MARTHA WILKES — 3055 LAKESHORE AVE — VARIANCE
REQUESTS FOR GARAGE ADDITION
Josh Doty put up an overhead of the area while going over his memo to the Planning
Commission. He then put up overheads of the survey and explained the request and explained
that the request met all 6 of the variance standards as outlined in zoning ordinance 825.44.
Martha Wilkes had photos of the area.
Elizabeth Weir said that all the planning commissioners had visited the site.
Bruce Whitehead, 3045 Lakeshore Ave., said he lived just to the south of the Wilkes and he
supported their request.
MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY BILL LOE TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE 3.14 FRONT YARD SET -BACK VARIANCE WITH THE HARDSHIP
BEING THAT IT IS THE ONLY LOGICAL PLACE FOR A GARAGE AND IS
CONSISTANT WITH OTHERS IN THE AREA.
MOTION PASSED.
MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO
RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE 4.11 SIDE YARD SETBACK VARIANCE WITH THE
HARDSHIP BEING THE PRESENT LOCATION OF THE GARAGE.
MOTION PASSED.
3. DEAN JOHNSON —1255 WILLOW DRIVE — RE -ZONING FROM RURAL
RESIDENTIAL TO SURBURBAN RESIDENTIAL AND SUBDIVISION TO 21
LOTS — PUBLIC HEARING
Josh Doty went over his memo to the planning commission and put up an overhead of the area.
He explained that this would be a re -zoning from Rural Residential to Suburban Residential.
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April 13, 2004
Josh stated that Medina's Land use guide plan guides this area for Suburban Residential and the
state requires that the zoning and the Land Use plan be consistent. He then put up an overhead
of the proposed subdivision and passed out copies of the wetland delineation report.
J. Doty said the utilities for this area would come from an agreement with Orono and the
developer must meet Orono's requirements with one being to help pay for the County Road
6/Willow Drive intersection improvements. Josh then pointed out the area for a storm water
retention pond and stated staff has currently inspected the site and feels the survey submitted
does not adequately show plans for the drainage and the drainage requirements must be met.
Steve Jacobson, 2482 Bobolink Road, said there is a natural pond (designated as Wetland A) and
it looks like a house is planned on it and that doesn't seem to make much sense. He also said the
letter that came about the water states that there might be a net increase in water pressure and
wondered if there would be a bond from the developer to help with water main breaks because it
would not be fair for the taxpayers/residents to pay.
Jim Dillman, Medina's Director of Public Works, stated that there are maybe 1-2 breaks per year
and the increase in pressure should not affect it. He said it would be a benefit to hook into
Orono's system.
S. Jacobson said again that the taxpayers should not have to pay and this is an overall benefit
Don Hedtke, 2515 Morningside Road, said they have lived here for 40 years and he was
concerned with the drainage. He had pictures of his backyard and where the water stands when
it rains. He pointed out on the proposed site plan where the water flows. Don also said the water
problems started when the sewer came in and he had to put foundation drainage in. He said he is
very scared of water. The bituminous pathway shown by trees is on his property and said he was
not in favor of it.
Jerry Johnson, 2445 Morningside Road, said he is glad to hear there is emphasis on drainage. He
also asked the definition of Suburban Residential zoning.
Elizabeth Weir said it was single family with a minimum of 30,000 square foot lots.
J. Johnson wanted to know who would maintain the power line between the 2 developments.
J. Doty said the new utilities would come in from Willow.
Brian Budeslich, 2465 Morningside Road, said he had the same drainage concerns and also: 1-
preservation of mature trees and 2 — Excavation plan — concerned with additional landscaping
when developed.
Vern Floen, 2605 Morningside Road, asked what the current zoning is.
E. Weir said Rural Residential and explained what could be done under that zoning.
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April 13, 2004
D. Hedtke asked when/if this happens he would hope there would be a sign by the new entrance
from Willow for the construction workers and also a sign by Morningside not to use that
entrance. Don also said the Elsinore Circle easement was never used and the easement could be
abandoned. And curb put there for water to go down the storm sewer. He said this is a big
concern.
J. Dillman said that Don Hedtke has done quite a bit of work himself for the water problems.
S. Jacobson said when this was tabled years ago, was said that the western Elsinore Circle would
be used and the eastern portion abandoned and curb put in. The abandoned portion would be
split to the adjacent property owners.
Gary Tesar, 1345 Elsinore Circle, said that before when a development was talked about it was
2-3 houses. How can it now be 20.
E. Weir said because it is proposed to re -zone the property with sewer. The 2-3 homes was when
it was in the rural zoning with septic systems.
Michael Werdel, 2642 Morningside Road, asked if the 2 Elsinore accesses needed to be
connected. He said it would mean more traffic and there are a lot of kids in the neighborhood.
E. Weir said it is for safety, fire, etc. with two entrances.
J. Doty said you would not want just one.
S. Jacobson said the gate could be left there and a fire truck could break it if necessary.
J. Doty said there would be trouble with just one access.
David Weetman, 2475 Morningside Road, reiterated the drainage issue. He said many of the
Morningside residents have put drain tile around their homes. He said there has to be a plan for
drainage on the eastern part of Morningside. David also said that as many of the trees on the
north side of the proposal as possible should be kept to provide a good screen.
Janice Strelow, 2482 Morningside Road, wanted to know what the proposed houses would look
like.
John James, 1225 Maplewood Road, wanted to know why he was not notified of the meeting.
(staff will check)
Dean Johnson introduced his partner, Steve Bohl.
Steve Bohl said his company, Hickory Fine Homes, has built homes in the area, Independence,
Orono, Wayzata. He showed some sketches of homes, using natural stone, Hardie plank siding.
He said his homes have some character, front porches, end load garages, arches, roof detail. He
said the trend in the market place is for homes in the 2700-3300 square foot size above grade
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April 13, 2004
with about a 4000 finished square foot total. Steve said people want homes with intimate space
in the interior. He said that staff is encouraging 2 trees per lot and that would be the minimum
they would do. He said landscaping is a big part of their design. Steve also said they have done
lots of developing working with storm sewer. He said there had been discussions about the
concerns of the Medina Morningside drainage and they and the city engineers can work together
on it. On the elevation of the homes Steve said the l st lots from Willow are flat and there would
be no look -outs or walk -outs on them. He also said the curb on Elsinore makes a lot of sense.
D. Johnson said he has not been aware of the water breaks in Medina Morningside. He said the
pressure will go up when the water is connected but there are things that can be done and with
the 2 systems coming in the pressure will be more even. Dean said they have not done the
engineering topography, etc. He said that was detail work that is not done until we know the
look of the preliminary plat. He said they go thru the preliminary plat so you know what the
project will look like then do engineering specs. He said they fully intend to do that work but it
is premature at this point.
D. Johnson said they would prefer that their application not be tabled, but approved with what
needs to be done. Signage for construction traffic is no problem and he said it is better to put up
2 signs; one for not to use an entrance and one to use the appropriate entrance. As far as
increased traffic he said the question to ask it how many times will you use the new road and that
is likely the amount the new homes will use your road.
J. James said that the there is tile for the water and run-off and there is standing water now,
where will the additional run-off go and in what direction.
D. Johnson said the water will go down to the pond at the end of Elsinore and then to the west.
J, James wanted to know where the water would go if it starts flowing.
J, Dillman said the water did run there until the pond was put in. He said it would be back to
where it was before the pond was put in.
PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS:
Bill Loe asked what would be tabled.
Elizabeth Weir said there are two items; re -zoning and the preliminary plat. She said we could
go ahead with the re -zoning and asked if there were any staff issues on the re -zoning.
Josh Doty said no.
E. Weir said let's consider the re -zoning.
Lenny Leuer said the re -zoning goes hand in hand and we may not want to go forward with the
re -zoning if this developer doesn't go thru with his plans. Lenny then asked Tom Kellogg if the
pond that was there was ever sized to take care of this development.
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April 13, 2004
Tom Kellogg, city engineer, said questions on the proposed pond have not been answered yet.
He said it appeared that the contours that the developer showed were not as they are on the site.
L. Leuer asked if it was fair to say the pond will be bigger.
T. Kellogg said could be. He said 21 lots could become 20.
L. Leuer asked if there was a spring on site.
T. Kellogg said they did not evaluate that.
L. Leuer said it appears to be wet in the middle of the site.
T. Kellogg said the developer needs to identify the ground water levels.
L. Leuer said it looks like an eternal well spring of water in the middle. He wondered if the
watershed district had accepted the delineation.
D. Johnson said they are not far enough into it.
L. Leuer said he has seen the watershed and contractors not agreeing and the watershed is
typically more conservative.
Steve Bohl said he did not think the watershed will look at it before the city approves the
preliminary plat. He said they hoped to get preliminary approval so they can go to the next step.
He said before they address the watershed, drainage issues, pond sizing, etc. they have
preliminary approval.
D. Johnson said the letter from the Minnehaha Watershed District says as part of the package to
submit to them they need some city approval.
S. Bohl said he suggests the concerns be a condition of the preliminary plat.
J. Doty said the staff recommendation to table is not specifically linked to the watershed. He
said there are drainage issues and he holds with that recommendation.
L. Leuer said it is hard to determine if the mature trees are on the Keller property or if they are
on the Medina Morningside side. He said we should know what trees are to stay and what are to
go.
S. Bohl asked if the City had a tree preservation policy and he was told not in this zoning district
D. Johnson said they could not say at this point which trees would stay because of the drainage.
He said yes, they can be sensitive to the trees. He said they want to save as many trees as they
can.
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April 13, 2004
S. Bohl said it was a great recommendation to abandon Elsinore Circle and curb be put in
E. Weir asked about the tree line to the north and wanted to know if they would be preserved.
D. Johnson said Lots 1 and 2 will be kept by the Keller's. The trees that have to be removed for
the road will be put on Lots 1 and 2. The tree line on Lots 2 and 3 to the west will remain.
E. Weir asked about the dark line on the plat.
D. Johnson said they show erosion control.
J. Dillman said the water main will be connected on the east side and if park commission does a
trail (he showed where it would go)
E. Weir asked about the curb.
J. Dillman said they need to look to see if a curb will carry to the catch basin in Morningside.
Marilyn Fortin said the park commission probably wants a trail there, but not blacktop, but
something that will absorb water.
L. Leuer asked Jim about the proposed road going to the west.
J. Dillman said it was to serve the three lots to the west if they are ever subdivided.
L. Leuer pointed out to Jim the culvert to the west.
J. Dillman said it was an agreement with Keller for access. The NW lot in the corner would have
a 15' easement instead of a 5' for mainly culvert repair.
L. Leuer wanted to know how the watershed felt about the NURP pond without overflow.
J. Dillman said the pond would be dug.
L. Leuer asked where they could dig to put a pond if it has to be larger.
T. Kellogg said he does not feel all the drainage was considered (from Medina Morningside)
when the calculations were done. He said the only clear option for a larger pond is to the north.
D. Johnson said there originally was planned a road to the west and to the south instead of 2
roads to the west.
L. Leuer said he can understand why the roads should go west. Lenny questioned the size of the
plan to the size of the land when there might need to be 2 ponds. He said this would impact the
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April 13, 2004
number of lots. He said the road alignment and the number of lots are impacted by the size and
location of ponds. Lenny also said he saw a lot of debris in the back of Lot 1.
D. Johnson said that is the Keller lot and does not know about it. He said it would be up to the
City to take care of it.
E. Weir said that Lots 1 & 2, the Keller lots are part of this proposed plat and it does need to be
cleaned up.
Mary Verbick said she has not read the history on the wetlands on this property but there seems
to be extremely wet soils on this land and she would feel more comfortable making a
recommendation if everything we need to see is before us.
E. Weir said she is inclined to table.
S. Bohl said they will need the specifics of what we need to fulfill.
M. Verbick said because of drainage issues and the need for new surveys.
J. Doty said that staff listed 7 items to have before the next planning commission meeting. He
said there were a number of engineering concerns that could be dealt with later, but the issues
listed in the memo must be dealt with before preliminary approval. Josh gave the applicants a
clear idea of what was needed. He said we could remove the need for watershed approval before
preliminary approval. Josh also said that some of Tom Kellogg's concerns need to be addressed
now.
There was some discussion of how the developer will provide the $200,000 to the City of Orono
for the intersection improvements.
Chad Adams said that the city council has clearly stated that Medina does not want to be
involved in the money transfer and the developer should deal directly with Orono.
J. Doty said staff is concerned because we have no formal (in writing) agreement in what is
happening with the money.
T. Kellogg pointed out to the applicants what was needed in his memo.
J. Doty once again pointed out the 7 items in his memo in addition to Tom's memo.
MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY BILL LOE TO TABLE THE DEAN
JOHNSON APPLICATION FOR RE -ZONING AND PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL
FOR A SUBDIVISION UNTIL FURTHER INFORMATION IS RECEIVED FROM THE
APPLICANT.
MOTION PASSED.
Planning Commission Minutes 7
April 13, 2004
4. UPTOWN HAMEL ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS — PUBLIC HEARING
Elizabeth Weir said that the committee had not completed their work and recommended that this
item be tabled until the next meeting.
MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO TABLE TO
THE MAY 11, 2004 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
MOTION PASSED.
5. REVIEW OF CSAH 29/HIGHWAY 12 INTERSECTION CONCEPT PLAN
Chad Adams said that this was directed to the planning commission by the city council. The
Maple Plain consultant had asked yesterday that this item be tabled as he could not be in
attendance tonight. Chad said that the city council wanted both the planning commission and
park commission to look at this plan.
Bob Barrett, 1432 Baker Park Road (Co. Rd. 29), said he is concerned about the trees in front of
his property, if a bike trail goes there after the road is widened. Some of the trees are 100+ years
old.
C. Adams said that staff recommends to the city council that the Maple Plain city council
preserves as many trees as possible. He said the Park Commission will look at it further, that it
is more of a park Commission responsibility. He also said that because of traffic the trail is
proposed off the ROW.
Lenny Leuer said that the dark black line on the east represents the curb and the trail shows east
of the curb line. The east side of the curb will take the trees going north.
Cathy Braun, 1472 Baker Park Road, said she doesn't understand the gain. There is a wide
shoulder that works as a bike path. She also said that this area should be a no passing zone.
B. Barrett said if the complex goes in on the corner (in Maple Plain), there will need to be turn
lanes.
L. Leuer said the plans also show a center median.
Bob Braun, 1472 Baker Park Road, said when they widened the road they took out the ditch and
it is considerably safer walking to the Dairy Queen from the park. He said if Main Street is
closed and is a cul de sac, wouldn't it be better to have the trail on the west side of 29 — there is
no curb and gutter and people could get to the Food Center, etc. better.
C. Adams said the city council is looking for comments on the concept plan, they are looking for
direction.
Elizabeth Weir said it is better to move it forward to the city council.
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April 13, 2004
C. Adams said to recommend when the city council does a resolution to note the comments.
There was discussion of having a trail behind the Dairy Queen/Holiday.
L. Leuer said there are two private properties that butt up against the park.
B. Braun said it would be good if Maple Plain could get some kind of lighting ordinance.
C. Adams said that he had given them a copy of Medina's lighting ordinance
B. Braun said Medina takes the residents into consideration.
E. Weir said the frontage road would be better farther to the south.
C. Braun said if the trail was to be on the east side it would be terrific if the city could get the
bike path behind the DQ and Holiday (on current snowmobile/horse trail).
MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO MOVE THIS
TO THE CITY COUNCIL WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF/PLANNING
COMMISSION AND THE RESIDENTS COMMENTS.
MOTION CARRIED
6. DISCUSSION OF CRITERIA FOR COMPRHENESIVE PLAN AMENDMENTS
Josh Doty said he has talked to the city attorney about this and said that they both have
reservations about having a formal list of criteria. He said changes are made with a great number
of considerations and if a formal list is created and recommendations are made on the list and not
on the rest of the comprehensive plan, there can be legal issues. Each change is unique and
really should be addressed on everything in the comp plan.
J. Doty said the city has ultimate discretion and an informal list might be o.k., but the list is
really the comp plan. A set of informal criteria would maybe be o.k.
Bill Loe said that the planning commission shouldn't come up with or originate ideas for criteria.
Ideas should come from city council and or staff We are looking for a few items to guide us, not
necessarily good to leave it so open. That allows any given item to go in any direction.
J. Doty said there are some things he can do in staff reports when something comes up and he
will plan on referring to and including the section in the comp plan that addresses it.
Elizabeth Weir said let's see how things go with the next comprehensive plan amendment
application.
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April 13, 2004
7. CITY PLANNER'S REPORT
Josh Doty said that the city council had tabled the Cudd request until May 18th. This will give the
city council time to look at the water plan.
Chad Adams said the water plan will address design, demand, etc.
J. Doty said the May planning commission meeting will include tabled items from tonight.
Elizabeth Weir said she would not be at the next meeting.
Bill Loe said it would be nice to get the packets earlier in the week.
C. Adams said at the May 11th meeting there will be an application from the City for a salt/sand
storage structure.
L. Leuer wanted to know if the City currently had a CUP. He was told no. Lenny said he has
seen when we worked with Baker Park we applied commercial criteria for their applications.
C. Adams said another possible item is the concept plan ordinance. The City council has
requested to limit developers to 2 concept plan reviews.
C. Adams reminded the planning commission of the Open House and reminded them if a number
of the planning commissioners were there, not to talk among yourselves, but to initiate
conversation for feed back from the residents. He said the information for the Open House was
in the newsletter and this was more of a conversational forum than a meeting.
Marilyn Fortin said it would be nice to have name tags.
C. Adams said he would have them there.
8. MINUTES OF MARCH 9, 2004
There were several grammatical errors corrected.
MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY MARYVERBICK TO APPROVE THE
MINUTES AS CORRECTED.
MOTION PASSED.
MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY MARYVERBICK TO ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 9:50 p.m.
Planning Commission Minutes 10
April 13, 2004
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
Planning Commission Minutes
April 13, 2004
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