HomeMy Public PortalAbout2020_tcmin0414[
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COUNCIL MEETING April 14, 2020
Council Chambers, 25 West Market Street, 7:00 p.m. Mayor Burk presiding.
Council Members Present: Ron Campbell, Thomas Dunn (arrived at 7:06 p.m., left at
10:12 p.m.), Suzanne Fox, Vice Mayor Marty Martinez, Neil Steinberg, Joshua Thiel,
and Mayor Kelly Burk.
Council Members Absent: None.
Staff Present: Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Deputy Town Manager Keith Markel,
Interim Town Attorney Martin Crim, Finance and Administrative Services Director
Clark Case (via WebEx), Human Resources Director Josh Didawick, Director of Public
Works Renee LaFollette, Economic Development Director Russell Seymour,
Information Technology Director Jakub Jedrzejczak, Public Information Officer Betsy
Arnett (via WebEx), Emergency Management Coordinator Joe Dame, Information
Technology Deputy Director John Callahan, Deputy Director and Treasurer of Finance
and Administrative Services Lisa Haley (via W ebEx), Senior Planning Project Manager
Chris Murphy (via WebEx), Land Acquisition Manager Keith Wilson, Management
and Budget Officer Jason Cournoyer, Senior Management Analyst Cole Fazenbaker (via
WebEx), Assistant Public Information Officer Leah Kosin and Clerk of Council Eileen
Boeing.
AGENDA ITEMS
1. CALL TO ORDER
2. INVOCATION was given by Council Member Fox.
3. SALUTE TO THE FLAG was led by Mayor Burk.
4. ROLL CALL
a. Electronic Participation
Vice Mayor Martinez and Council Member Campbell requested to electronically
participate in the April 14, 2020, Council Meeting due to the health and safety concerns
associated with the Coronavirus.
MOTION 2020-098
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Thiel, the
following was proposed:
To allow Vice Mayor Martinez and Council Member Campbell to electronically participate
in the April 14, 2020, Council Meeting.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Fox, Steinberg, Thiel and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 4-0-3 (Vice Mayor Martinez, Campbell and Dunn absent)
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5. l\.flNUTES
a. Special Council Meeting Minutes of March 18. 2020
MOTION 2020-099
On a motion by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Thiel, the
minutes of the Special Council Meeting Minutes of March 18, 2020, were approved by a
vote of6-0-1 (Dunn absent).
b. Work Session Minutes of March 23. 2020
MOTION 2020-100
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Thiel,
the minutes of the Work Session Minutes of March 23, 2020, were approved by a vote of 6-
0-1 (Dunn absent).
c. Regular Session Minutes of March 24. 2020
MOTION 2020;.101
On a motion by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Thiel, the
minutes of the Regular Session Minutes of March 24, 2020, were approved by a vote of 6-0-
1 (Dunn absent).
d. Special Council Meeting Minutes of April 3. 2020
MOTION 2020-102
On a motion by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Thiel, the
minutes of the Special Council Meeting Minutes of April 3, 2020, were approved by a vote
of6-0-1 (Dunn absent).
6. ADOPTING THE MEETING AGENDA
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Vice Mayor Martinez, the
meeting agenda was moved for approval.
Council Member Campbell requested a discussion item to be added to amend the
Ordinance passed on April 3 regarding Ensuring the Continuity of Government
MOTION
On a motion by Council Member Campbell, seconded by Council Member Thiel, the
following was proposed·
To add an item to the agenda for discussion on amending Ordinance 2020-0-008 -
Ensuring the Continuity of Government.
Council Member Campbell said he emailed Council and the Town Manager with
his proposed amendments to Section D-3 noting that the final Ordinance did not reflect
the conversation at the previous meeting ensuring Council participation not just in
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canceling meetings but also in the electronic communications especially for Special or
Emergency Meetings. Mr. Campbell said he believed the intent that it was to be a
Council decision and not the Mayor's decision.
Mayor Burk clarified that the vote was to add this item to the agenda and not for
the amendments themselves.
The motion failed by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Fox, Thiel
Nay: Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Vote: 3-3 (Dunn absent)
The motion to approve the meeting agenda was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg, Thiel and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Dunn absent)
MOTION
On a motion by Council Member Campbell, seconded by Council Member Dunn, the
following was proposed:
To rescind the Ordinance that was passed regarding Ensuring the Continuity of
Government passed on Apn:Z 3, 2020.
Council Member Fox asked for clarification on why Council Member Campbell
wanted the Ordinance rescinded. Council Member Campbell explained that the
conversation at the last meeting, while not specifically talking about Section D-3 but did
mention Section D-2, was to give Council the ability to have input greater than just a
consultation particularly when it comes to this specific section of the Ordinance. Mr.
Campbell said items on the agenda for an all-electronic meeting should be approved by
the full Council because they have to be very specific items.
Mr. Crim stated that the question is regarding Section D-3 and if there is an
action by the governing body itself or by the public body in the case of subordinate
bodies or if it is by the Mayor or Chair of that body whether there will solely be a
meeting by electronic meeting. He explained that the problem with having the Council
make that decision is that Council can only act in a meeting so there would have to be a
meeting to decide whether to have a fully electronic meeting. Mr. Crim said that may
not always be possible because the reason for the electronic meeting might be that it is
too unsafe to meet. The intent of the section was to allow one person to make that
decision and it is currently the Mayor or the Chair. Mr. Crim said the language in
Section D-2 was amended by Council on April 3 to provide for consultation with the
Council or other members of the body but there was no parallel language in D-3 as that
was not part of the Ordinance as presented nor part of the discussion. Mayor Burk
confirmed with Mr. Crim that if the wording was changed in Section D-3 as proposed
then Council would have to have a meeting to discuss the meeting. Mr. Crim confirmed
that if the wording was changed to say that only the Council or other public body could
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make a decision to have a fully electronic meeting would put the Council or body in a
position where it would have to meet in order to have a fully electronic meeting.
Council Member Thiel asked if Council currently could bring an item forward if
it was related to the emergency or would they have to have a meeting to discuss having a
meeting on the topic even if it is was a remote meeting. Mr. Crim noted that Council
can call a Special Meeting just the same way as Council would have done in pre-virus
times. The Mayor or two Council Members could call a Special Meeting. If there was a
quorum, Council could move forward with it. Mr. Crim noted that was a Special in-
person meeting. He said that there could be a Special Meeting called at any time but the
problem is if Council wanted to call a Special Meeting by solely electronic means, it
needs to determine what method that would be. Mr. Crim said the Ordinance that was
passed on April 3 provides for the Mayor or the Chair of the public body to be able to
call for an all-electronic meeting unilaterally. Mr. Thiel asked ifit would be possible to
add when two Council Members call a Special Meeting that they request that it be by
electronic means. Mr. Crim said that a rule could be added that any two Council
Members may request a Special Meeting to be held by fully electronic means. Mr. Thiel
asked if a Council Member wanted to add something to the Ordinance that it be done at
the current meeting. Mr. Crim confirmed that was correct.
Council Member Dunn confirmed that the motion was to rescind and the
previous motion was to add amending the Ordinance to the agenda. Mr. Dunn
recommended that the current motion be withdrawn and resubmitted as a motion to
reconsider. He said that would allow Council to move forward with considering
changes to the Ordinance. Mr. Dunn said to rescind the Ordinance would be as if to
deny the whole motion and start all over again and the quandary would remain of
getting it back onto the agenda.
Vice Mayor Martinez noted that in the past any changes to the agenda had to be
made by unanimous consent. Therefore, he said before Council can move the motion
forward there should be a motion to suspend the rules.
There was some discussion over whether or not the meeting agenda had been
adopted and whether the motion was in its proper place. Council Member Campbell
accepted the amendment to the motion; however, after discussion regarding whether the
meeting agenda had been adopted, Mr. Dunn withdrew his second.
The vote on the meeting agenda was taken again and the meeting agenda was adopted by a
voteo/7-0.
MOTION
On a motion by Council Member Dunn, seconded by Council Member Campbell, the
following motion was proposed:
To reconsider Ordinance 2020-0-008 -Ensuring the Continuity of Government
Council Member Dunn said there were a few items that need clarification that
would help.
Mayor Burk added this as item 13.e. to the agenda.
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7. CERTIFICATES OF RECOGNITION
a. None.
8. PROCLAMATIONS
a. Proclamation: Earth Day
b. Proclamation: Arbor Day
c. Proclamation: Census Day
Mayor Burk noted that all three proclamations would be mailed to their recipients.
9. PRESENTATIONS
a. Presentation: COVID-19 Fiscal Impact Briefing
Town Manager Kaj Dentler and Management and Budget Officer Jason
Cournoyer provided Council with a fiscal impact briefing as a result of the
COVID-19 pandemic. Mr. Dentler said that they predict that there will be a
nearly $5M deficit in FY20. Mr. Dentler reviewed some of the steps taken to
balance the shortfall that includes:
• Freezing vacant positions
• Eliminating all travel and training
• No part-time salaries for Thomas Balch Library and Ida Lee Park
Recreation Center staffs
• Evaluating Capital Improvement Projects
Mr. Cournoyer reviewed the revenue shortfalls. He noted that the
situation will continue to evolve and that staff intends to provide Council with a
monthly update. Mr. Cournoyer discussed the projected shortfalls in the
following areas:
• Parks and Recreation Revenue: $1.51M or (29%)
• Meals Tax: $801K or,(14%)
• Transient Occupancy Tax: $393K or (46%)
• Business, Professional and Occupational License (BPOL): $389K
or (11%)
• Parking Related Revenue: $127K or (27%)
• Other combined projected shortfalls: $228K
• Communications Tax: 10% decrease
Mr. Cournoyer added that an additional area of expenditure reductions is
due to deferring maintenance to roads, trails, facilities and fewer than anticipated
weather responses.
Mr. Dentler noted that he believes the Town can weather through Fiscal
Year 2020 but that Fiscal Year 2021 is his greatest concern.
Council Member Thiel asked why the same amount per quarter in FY20
could not be used for FY2 l. Mr. Cournoyer explained that many of the
consumer taxes for FY20 have already been collected.
Council Member Fox asked about the debt service and CIP project
funding and projects that may be deferred. Mr. Dentler said that no adjustments
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to the CIP have been made at this time. Ms. Fox asked if the West Market Street
Sidewalk project could be moved up since school is out of session. Mr. Dentler
said staff is exploring this with the contractor. Ms. Fox asked ifthe Town was
holding back any funds similar to what the County is doing. Mr. Dentler said the
Town is not holding back any funds.
Council Member Dunn asked questions about the Meals Tax and the need
for more localized data for the projections. Mr. Dunn also asked questions
regarding the Unassigned Fund Balance and where appropriations were made
from those funds. Mr. Cournoyer said there's no planned change for the use of
those funds because some of the funds have already been expended. Mr.
Cournoyer said that at this time the Town is not planning to use any Unassigned
Fund Balance to offset the revenue deficit. Mr. Dunn also confirmed with Mr.
Cournoyer that the debt reserve percentage was imposed by Council themselves.
Mr. Cournoyer said that was correct and explained the benefits of maintaining a
20% debt reserve.
Council Member Campbell spoke to Mr. Cournoyer of the benefits of
inputting regional and State data when evaluating the fiscal impacts but did agree
with Council Member Dunn about the using real Leesburg numbers at some
point. Mr. Campbell noted the importance of Council seeing real Leesburg
numbers before the end of the fiscal year.
Vice Mayor Martinez confirmed with Mr. Cournoyer that there are
presently no impacts to the Water and Sewer or Capital Improvements Projects
(CIP). Mr. Martinez noted that when everything starts ramping up again, the
Town needs to have a plan for supporting residents and businesses getting back
on their feet.
Mr. Dentler noted staff will be back with future updates as the situation
evolves. He also noted that the Town is using Town-specific information in
additional to regional data.
b. Presentation: COVID-19 Business Relief Proposal
Town Manager Kaj Dentler and Economic Development Director Russell
Seymour provided Council with some relief proposals for Leesburg businesses to
assist in response to the economic impacts associated with the COVID-19
pandemic. Mr. Dentler explained the purpose_ of the proposal was to modify the
collection timing of certain taxes due to COVID-19 pandemic conditions:
• 1st Half Personal/ Business Tangible Property
• Meals Tax
• Transient Occupancy Tax (Hotel Tax)
• Business Licenses
Mr. Dentler also noted that the response to businesses is that they will
work with each business on a case-by-case basis but the expectation is that
everyone files on time. Mr. Dentler reviewed the proposal for each tax.
He asked Council to formalize aligning the personal property due date to
coincide with the County's extended due date from May 5 to June 5. Mr.
Dentler said for the Transient Occupancy Tax (TOT), 2% of the 6% of the tax
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collected goes to NVTA and the Town is obligated to pay this. He explained the
Meals Tax and the TOT collected by the business are turned over to the Town.
Mr. Dentler noted that neither the Meals Tax nor the TOT come out of the
businesses' profit.
Mr. Dentler explained the relief options. He added if Council is interested
in enacting, that Council must pass an ordinance to enact these changes.
Mr. Seymour reported on his outreach efforts to the more than 2,000+
businesses in Leesburg and shared some of the adjustments the different
industries have had to make to keep their operations afloat. Mr. Dunn noted
that he heard that some restaurants have turned to selling groceries. Mr.
Seymour said that Town staff has been very flexible working with business
owners. Mr. Dunn asked about grant funding. Mr. Seymour said that this is
something that they will consider in the future. He also added that they are really
trying to meet the specific needs of each business owner rather than large
programs that may not necessarily be what they need at this moment. Mr. Dunn
also discussed eliminating the Meals Tax.
Council Member Campbell discussed the issues that small business
owners were having with the Small Business Administration loans and the
disproportional impact between big and small businesses. Mr. Seymour
confirmed that he was aware of the issues Mr. Campbell highlighted. Mr.
Campbell also noted that these actions are just an intermediate step until
businesses can resume and travel restrictions lifted. Mr. Seymour noted that this
is why they are trying not to do one program that is for everyone but instead they
handling issues on a case-by-case basis. Mr. Campbell stated he was not in
support of the 10% early payment discount as discussed due to the
disproportional impact to big and small businesses. He said he was in favor of
keeping the discount at 5% and was in support of a 30-day payment extension.
Council Member Thiel discussed with Mr. Seymour the impacts to the
third and fourth quarters of the fiscal year. Mr. Thiel asked what the financial
impact would be to offer a 10% discount v. a 5% discount. Mr. Cournoyer said it
would be a $40K/ quarter impact for the Meals Tax and TOT combined.
Council Member Fox echoed Council Member Dunn's comments that if
the Meals Tax was suspended that more people may come to Leesburg to eat.
Ms. Fox discussed stopgap measures with Mr. Seymour. Mr. Seymour said that
most businesses are looking for relief and delaying payments 90-days gives them
additional revenue to keep things moving. Ms. Fox confirmed that the 10%
discount would be a $40K/per quarter impact to the Town. Mr. Dentler
confirmed that was correct. Ms. Fox asked about the impacts of suspending the
Meals Tax. Mr. Dentler said that the Meals Tax makes up almost $6M of the
budget.
Council Member Steinberg cautioned about being too hasty in reshaping
the Town's financials until the Town has a better idea of the impacts. Mr.
Steinberg said there are many businesses that have been able to adapt but
unfortunately there will be some businesses that will not be able to make it
through this crisis.
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Vice Mayor Martinez thanked staff for their hard work and agreed with
Council Member Campbell that the Town must continue to communicate with
residents and small business owners during this time.
Mayor Burk thanked Council Member Fox for initiating the discussion on
some of these items. She also thanked Vice Mayor Martinez for donating his
salary for two months toward the efforts. Mayor Burk noted that suspending
collection of the Meals Tax that would mean that those businesses that get the
5% back for paying on time would lose that 5%. She added that Council may
think that suspending it is helping them, but in actuality it might be hurting them ..
Mayor Burk said she has spoken to nearly 300 businesses in Town and they have
all been very articulate in what they need. She also noted that there is a Small
Business Administration office located in Leesburg and has been encouraging
businesses to utilize their services. Mayor Burk added that the NVRC will be
hosting a call with Senators Warner and Kaine and the topic is that the next
stimulus program will be to bring money to localities and to help support
localities. She said she remains very optimistic of the possibility the Town could
be getting some Federal funding to help with the budgets to reimburse the issues
the Town is having.
c. Presentation: COVID-19 Refuse Collections Update
Public Works and Capital Projects Director Renee LaFollette updated
Council on the status of refuse collection as a result of the impacts of the COVID-
19 pandemic. Ms. LaFollette said in Leesburg the trend for trash collection for
March is up approximately 20% as is recycling. She reviewed the current status of
the nine-step contingency plan Town staff has been working on with Patriot. The
first step taken was suspending bulk collection. The second step was to reduce
the amount of days trash was collected at downtown businesses. That service
was reduced from six days a week to three days which matches their recycling
service. Trash at downtown businesses is down almost 50%. No changes are
planned for yard waste but Patriot and staff will continue to monitor. Ms.
LaFollette commented on Patriots staffing levels and their current situation with
their staff who have been diagnosed with the virus or staff that have been
quarantined.
Council Member Fox asked ifthere was any financial relief offered by the
State as more trash is generated due to the stay at home order. Ms. LaFollette
said at this point there are no funds identified. Ms. LaFollette discussed recycling
and the impacts if recycling is suspended and how that affects the trash stream.
She also noted that there are County and State ordinances that must be followed
that staff has been trying to see if there is any relief to localities available during
this crisis. ,
Council Member Thiel confirmed with Ms. LaFollette that downtown
garbage is only being collected three times per week. Ms. LaFollette said that
was correct. Mr. Thiel asked ifit needs to be reduced further. Ms. LaFollette
said not at this time. Mr. Thiel asked ifthere were any other areas of concern.
Ms. LaFollette said the Town needs assistance from residents to only put out for
collection what will fit in their taters. Council Member Thiel asked if contractors
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10.
would help. Ms. LaFollette said that is part of the contingency plan but that they
haven't reached that point.
Council Member Campbell discussed when the trigger would be for
considering a reduction in services or does the Town need to consider those extra
resources and the affordability of doing so. Mr. Campbell also expressed a need
to have a priority list of services provided by the Town if additional cuts or
reductions are needed in the future.
Council Member Steinberg asked about the impacts if recycling has to be
suspended. Ms. LaFollette said this is part of the contingency planning with
Patriot but also centers around relaxing some of the County ordinances regarding
the landfill and comingling trash and recycling.
Council Member Dunn suggested staff contact Loudoun County Public
Schools for assistance with trash hauling since the schools are closed and not
generating any trash. Mr. Dunn asked ifthere was a dollar amount that the
Town could provide that would allow Patriot to bring on additional resources.
Ms. LaFollette said that it is already an understaffed industry and it would be
challenging to Patriot to find additional resources. Mr. Dunn said with the
current unemployment rate that they may be more successful getting additional
resources that may not have been available previously. Mr. Dunn discussed the
recycling requirements of the Town and the County and asked Ms. LaFollette to
check into if the Town is not recycling, if the Town would be required to have
separate bins because the Town isn't recycling. Mr. Dunn said he would rather
pay more to maintain essential services versus having them reduced.
Mayor Burk noted that Fairfax has suspended their bulk pickup and lawn
waste pickups. She asked if there is State requirement to recycle a certain
amount. Ms. LaFollette said the State Code has a 25% recycling target in the
Code.
REGIONAL CO:MMJSSION REPORTS
Mayor Burk reported on the Northern Virginia Regional Commission's twice a
week calls held with all of the localities in Northern Virginia. Mayor Burk noted that
the group will be having a call with Senators Warner and Kaine to talk about stimulus
money and to ensure that it gets to the Towns. Mayor Burk said during her weekly call
with Loudoun County Board of Supervisors Chair Randall that Chair Randall shared
that the County lowers the County flag every Monday from dawn to dusk in
commemoration of all of the Coronavirus victims. Mayor Burk asked Council to
consider doing something similar at the Town.
11. PETITIONERS
The Petitioners section was opened at 9:10 p.m.
There were no Petitioners wishing to address Council.
The Petitioners section was closed at 9:11 p.m.
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12. APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA
Council Member Dunn asked for item 12.e. -Bus Shelters -Townwide Project -
Acquire Permanent and Temporary Easements be removed from the Consent Agenda
for discussion.
MOTION 2020-103
On a motion by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Steinberg, the
following consent agenda was proposed with item 12.e. -Bus Shelters -Townwide Project-
Acquire Permanent and Temporary Easements removed:
a. NVT A Funding Agreement for Battlefield Parkway & Route 15 Bypass
Interchange Pro;ect
RESOLUTION 2020-051
Approving the Standard Agreement with the Northern Virginia
Transportation Authority for Funding of the Battlefield Parkway & Route
15 Bypass Interchange Project
b. License Agreement with Cellco Partnership d/b/ a Verizon Wireless ("Cellco")
c.
RESOLUTION 2020-052
Authorizing the Town Manager to Execute A License Agreement between
the Town of Leesburg and Cellco Partnership for Small Cell Wireless
Telecommunications Facilities in the Town's Right-of Way
License Agreement with New Cingular Wireless PCS. LLC
RESOLUTION 2020-053
Authorizing the Town Manager to Execute a License Agreement between
the Town of Leesburg and New Cingular Wireless for Small Cell Wireless
Telecommunica~ions Facilities in the Town's Right-of Way
d. 2020 ArtsP ARKs Sculptures at Raflo Park
RESOLUTION 2020-054
Approval of 2020 ArtsP ARKs Sculptures at Rafla Park
j Supplemental Appropriation for the Recreation Outreach to Community Kids
(R. 0. C.K) Program
RESOLUTION 2020-055
Supplemental Appropriation for the Recreation Outreach to Community
Kids (R. 0. C.K) Program
The Consent Agenda was approved by the following vote:
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13.
Aye: Campbell, Dunn, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg; Thiel and Mayor
Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 7-0
e. Bus Shelters -Townwide Project -Acquire Permanent and Temporary
Easements
Council Member Dunn asked if the action requested was authorizing staff
to acquire the funds or execute a take measure for lands as necessary. Ms.
LaFollette stated that the action is authorizing the offer to acquire permanent or
temporary easements necessary for the bus shelter construction. She added that
ifthe Town needed to go to eminent domain, it would require a separate action
by Council. Mr. Wilson said including the language does not allow for the use of
eminent domain at this time, but does provides landowners with certain
protections.
MOTION 2020-104
On a motion by Vice Mayor Martinez, seconded by Council Member Steinberg, the
following was proposed:
RESOLUTION 2020-056
Authorizing an Offer to Acquire Permanent and Temporary Easements for the Bus
Shelters -Townwide Project
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg, Thiel and Mayor Burk
Nay: Dunn
Vote: 6-1
RESOLUTIONS /ORDINANCES I MOTIONS
a. Dulles Greenway -Proposed Toll Road Increases
Council Member Thiel confirmed with Mr. Dentler that Council's action
is to send the State Corporation Commission a letter to strongly oppose any rate
increases to the Dulles Greenway tolls.
Mr. Dentler confirmed with Mayor Burk that the action is for approving a
resolution stating Council's position along with a cover letter from the Mayor.
Council Member Dunn asked if the State Corporation Commission was
the sole authority for rate decisions. Mr. Dentler confirmed that was correct.
Council Member Fox asked if this issue will keep coming back and if a
blanket letter would be more effective. Mr. Dentler said that Council can
continue this dialogue if desired but that once Council is on the record with its
position it should be sufficient. He noted that the hearing is currently scheduled
for August in Richmond.
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MOTION 2020-105
On a motion by Council Member Thiel, seconded by Council Member Steinberg,
the following was proposed:
RESOLUTION 2020-057
C01porate Position of Town Council on the Proposed Toll Increases for the
Dulles Greenway along with a cover letter from Mayor Burk on behalf of
Council
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Dunn, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg, Thiel and Mayor
Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 7-0
b. Motion to Approve the World Ovarian Cancer Day Proclamation
MOTION 2020-106
On a motion by Mayor Burk, Seconded by Council Member Steinberg, the
following was proposed:
c.
I move to approve the World Ovarian Cancer Day Proclamation.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg, Thiel and Mayor Burk
Nay: ·None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Dunn abstain)
Motion to Approve the Better Hearing Month Proclamation
MOTION 2020-107
On a motion by Mayor Burk, seconded by Vice Mayor Martinez, the following was
proposed:
I move to approve the Better Hearing Month Proclamation.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg, Thiel and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Dunn abstain)
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d. Business Relief Proposal
MOTION
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Vice Mayor Martinez, the
following was proposed:
ORDINANCE
Establishing Due Dates, Penalties, and Interest for Meals Tax (Town
Code, Chapter 20, Article VJ and Transient Occupancy Tax (Town Code
Chapter 20, Article VJ) for the First and Second Quarters of Calendar Year
2020 in Response to the COVID-19 Emergency
RESOLUTION
Extending the Due Date for Payment of Personal Property Taxes and
Business, Professional and Occupational License (BPOL) Taxes for Good
Cause in response to the COVID-19 Emergency
Council Member Campbell requested a friendly amendment to
change the early payment discount to 5% v. the 10% proposed. The
amendment was accepted by Council Member Steinberg and Vice Mayor
Martinez.
Council Member Dunn said he was in favor of keeping it at 10%
but wanted to waive the Town's Meals Tax between now and June 30,
2020. Mr. Steinberg did not accept the amendment at this time.
MOTION
On a motion by Council Member Dunn, seconded by Council Member
Thiel the following was proposed:
To remove the Town's Meal's Tax Collection between now and midnight
June 30, 2020
Council Member Dunn explained his reasons why he thought the
tax should not be collected during this time. Mr. Dunn noted that this
action is about getting people to go out and patronize more businesses so
that the businesses can sell more and customers can save more by not
having to pay this tax over the short term.
Council Member Thiel asked what the process would be for not
collecting the remainder of what is currently being held by the restaurants.
Mr. Dentler said that the Town would have to notify the businesses and
they would have to change their business systems. He added that they
would have to pay the Town what they have already collected. Mr. Thiel
asked when it would become effective. Mr. Crim noted that it could be
·problematic for some businesses as they may need to change their
processes but it would be effective from whatever date it is set for and they
would stop collecting the money on that date. They would only remit
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what they have collected through the effective date of the change and then
having it returned to the current 3.5% on July 1st. Mr. Dentler noted that
this is not new money to the business. He said as Mr. Dunn stated, the
only benefit would be if Council believes that it's going to draw customer
sales.
Council Member Campbell said he was not opposed to this as a
tool but did not think the timing was right to implement. Mr. Campbell
said the real toolkit will be needed after the shutdown is over in driving
economic value and business back over a period of time that will be
beneficial to everybody.
Mayor Burk agreed that she did not think it was the correct way
forward. She said Council needs to be careful with what it is doing and
added that this doesn't affect all of the businesses. Mayor Burk added that
she does not believe the Meals Tax is the reason people don't go out to
dinner.
Mr. Dentler noted that at a 50% reduction of the meal's tax for two
months is a $540K loss to the Town.
The motion failed by the following vote:
Aye: Dunn, Fox
Nay: Campbell, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg, Thiel and Mayor
Burk
Vote: 2-5
MOTION 2020-107
On a motion by Coundl Member Steinberg, seconded by Vice Mayor Martinez, the
following was proposed:
ORDINANCE 2020-0-009
Establishing Due Dates, Penalties, and Interest for Meals Tax (Town
Code, Chapter 20, Article V) and Transient Occupancy Tax (Town Code
Chapter 20, Article VI) for the First and Second Quarters of Calendar Year
2020 in Response to the COVID-19 Emergency with the 10% discount
changed back to 5%
RESOLUTION 2020-058
Extending the Due Date for Payment of Personal Property Taxes and
Business, Professional and Occupational License (BPOL) Taxes for Good
Cause in response to the COVID-19 Emergency
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg, Thiel
Nay: Mayor Burk
Vote: 5-1-1 (Dunn abstain)
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e. Reconsideration of Ordinance 2008-0-008
MOTION
On a motion by Council Member Dunn, seconded by Council Member Campbell,
the following was proposed:
To reconsider Ordinance 2008-0-008 to insert in Section D-3(a) with consultation
with members of the body.
Mayor Burk noted that she did not think Mr. Dunn was in attendance at
the April 3 meeting and therefore Mr. Dunn could not make the motion to
reconsider. Mr. Dunn thought that was incorrect and stated that he was in
attendance, but withdrew his motion to allow someone else to make the motion.
MOTION
On a motion by Council Member Campbell, seconded by Council Member Fox, the
following was proposed:
To reconsider Ordinance 2008-0-008 to insert in Section D-3(a) with consultation
with members of the body.
Council Member Campbell noted that he did not believe that the
conversation that took place at the April 3 meeting regarding Special Meetings
was included in Section D-3 to include strong Council consultation particularly
for electronic meetings. Mr. Campbell also discussed the need for Council
involvement when determining what those agenda items should be. Mr. Crim
reiterated that the Town is following the Attorney General's opinion with regard
to fully-electronic meetings where the agenda would be limited to either
addressing the essential functions of the Town or otherwise addressing the
emergency. Mr. Campbell expressed his concerns about using the words, "if
possible." Mr. Crim advised that this could be removed and in the event that a
fully electronic meeting was needed, the Mayor could consult with members of
Council by sending an email and asking for a response within a certain
timeframe. That would satisfy the consultation with Council. Mr. Campbell was
agreeable to this amendment.
Council Member Dunn requested an amendment to the Ordinance to add
language to notify the public when meetings are 100% electronic. The
amendment was not accepted by Council Member Campbell.
MOTION 2020-108
On a motion by Council Member Dunn, seconded by Council Member Thiel, the
following was proposed:
To add to Section D-3 of the Ordinance that meeting announcements are provided
to the public when Council or other subordinate bodies are meeting 100%
electronically. ·
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COUNCIL MEETING April 14, 2020
Council Member Campbell said that the Ordinance puts in place powers if
enacted in certain situations that certain actions can be done. He noted that there
are no requirements. He said that Section D-3 gives the Mayor the power to call
a 100% meeting and FOIA provisions already cover the meeting notification
requirements.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Dunn, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Thiel and Mayor Burk
Nay: Campbell, Steinberg
Vote: 5-2
Council Member Dunn asked for a friendly amendment to require all
members of the body to participate I 00% electronically if a I 00% electronic
meeting is called. Council Member Campbell did not accept the amendment.
MOTION
On a motion by Coundl Member Dunn, seconded by Council Member Fox, the
following was proposed:
To require all members of the body to partidpate 100% electronically ifa 100%
electronic meeting is called.
Mayor Burk said that she is opposed to this and that if a member chooses
to physically participate they should be able to.
Vice Mayor Martinez asked if this meant that everyone has to participate.
Mayor Burk clarified that it is regarding remote participation and that Mr. Dunn
was making a motion for a requirement for all members of the body to participate
electronically versus making it their choice.
Council Member Dunn said if it important enough to stay away then
everyone should stay away.
The motion failed by the following vote:
Aye: Dunn, Fox, Thiel
Nay: Campbell, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Vote: 3-4
Council Member Dunn requested a friendly amendment to allow for a
Suspension of the Rules to allow items to be added to the agenda at the meeting
by a simple majority ifthe added item is related to the emergency. The
amendment was accepted by Council Member Campbell.
Council Member Campbell expressed a desire to make sure all of the
changes were properly captured and inserted into the amended Ordinance. Mr.
Dentler suggested allowing Mr. Crim to insert the changes and bring the final
draft back to Council at its next meeting for review and approval.
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14.
Mr. Crim summarized the amendments to include: to add the words "in
consultation with the other members of the body" in D-3(a) after the words "the
Chair," comma; to add as D-3, C-4 that meeting announcements will be given to
the public of all electronic meetings, and under D-3(h) that additions to the
agenda may be by suspension of the rules by simple majority vote if the item is
related to the emergency. Mr. Crim noted that additions to Special Council
Meetings may not be possible if all Council Members are not present under State
law.
MOTION 2020-109
On a motion by Council Member Campbell, seconded by Vice Mayor Martinez, the
following was proposed:
To table amending Ordinance 2020-0-008 to the next Council Meeting to allow the
Interim Town Attorney to incorporate the changes and allow Council to review the
final draft before approving the amendments.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg, Thiel and Mayor Burk
Nay: Dunn
Vote: 6-1
Mayor Burk noted to Council that if there was any additional input or
comment regarding the amendments, to contact Mr. Crim directly before the next
meeting.
PUBLIC HEARING
a. None.
15. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. None.
16. NEW BUSINESS
a. None.
17. COUNCIL DISCLOSURES AND COMMENTS I ADDITIONS TO
FUTURE l\IBETINGS
a. None.
18. MAYOR DISCLOSURES AND COMMENTS I ADDITIONS TO FUTURE
l\IBETINGS
a. None.
19. TOWN MANAGER COMMENTS
a. None.
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20. CLOSED SESSION
a. Closed Session -Town Attorney Salary Range.
MOTION 2020-110
On a motion by Mayor Burk, seconded by Coundl Member Steinberg, the
following was proposed:
I move pursuant to§ 2.2-371 l(A)(l) of the Code of Virginia that the Leesburg
Town Council convene in a closed meeting for the purpose of discussing the salary
range for the Town Attorney position.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Dunn, Fox, Vice Mayor Martt"nez, Steinberg, Tht"el and Mayor
Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 7-0
Council Member Dunn left the meeting at 10:12 p.m.
Council went into Closed Session at 10:12 p.m.
Council reconvened in a Public Session at 10:28 p.m.
MOTION 2020-111
On a motion by Mayor Burk, the following motion was proposed:
In accordance with Section§ 2.2-3712 of the Code of Virginia, I move that Council
certify to the best of each member's knowledge, only public business matters
lawfally exempted from open meeting requirements under Virginia Freedom of
Information Act and such public business matters for the purpose identified in the
motion by which the closed meeting was convened were heard, discussed or
considered in the meeting by Coundl.
The motion was approved by the following roll call vote:
Thiel -aye, Vice Mayor Martinez -aye, Campbell -aye, Steinberg -aye, Mayor
Burk -aye, Fox -aye
b. Discussion -Town Attorney Job Description and Recruitment Profile
Ms. Catherine Tuck Parrish with The Novak Consulting Group, reviewed
the recruitment profile and plan with Council including the interviewing process
and timeline.
Council Member Campbell discussed the need for Council to be clear on
the expectations of the Town Attorney and noted that there are different
responsibilities that impact the Council and those that impact the Town Manager
and staff. Mr. Campbell said setting those expectations will ensure that the
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candidate is fairly treated and that more discussion was needed to establish these
expectations.
Council Member Fox suggested that the Council conduct the Town
Attorney's evaluation with the Mayor spearheading the effort and incorporating
input from the Town Manager. There were no objections to this suggestion.
Vice Mayor Martinez discussed the need to have evaluations conducted at
intervals during the year to provide feedback so that if Council is not satisfied
with the Attorney's performance that it won't come as a surprise to th~
individual. Ms. Parrish recommended in the employment agreement for at least
the first year to include a six-month evaluation in addition to a 12-month
evaluation along with a list of goals of which one would be for the new Town
Attorney to develop new goals for themselves.
Mayor Burk noted that a future Council agenda will include a discussion
on establishing evaluation criteria for the position and metrics.
Ms. Parrish received consensus from Council that Council will hire/fire
the Town Attorney position; Council will conduct the annual performance
evaluation with Town Manager input; and, the Town Manager will provide the
daily supervision of the Town Attorney.
21. Adjournment
On a motion by Coundl Member Steinberg, seconded by Coundl Member Fox, the meeting
" was adjourned at 10:47 p.m.
Ketf~~~
Town of Leesburg
ATTEST:
2020_tcmin0414
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1
April 14, 2020 – Town Council Meeting
(Note: This is a transcript prepared by a Town contractor based on the video of the meeting. It
may not be entirely accurate. For greater accuracy, we encourage you to review the video of the
meeting that is on the Town’s Web site – www.leesburgva.gov or refer to the approved Council
meeting minutes. Council meeting videos are retained for three calendar years after a meeting
per Library of Virginia Records Retention guidelines.)
Mayor Kelly Burk: I would like to call to order the April 14th meeting of the Leesburg Town Council. If
anyone in the room needs hearing assistance, please see the Clerk. Council Member Fox will be giving
the invocation, and I will follow with the salute to the flag. Council Member Fox?
Council Member Suzanne Fox: Thank you. Please join me. Our Father in heaven we're grateful for
this day and the ability to meet as a governmental body. We're grateful for the protection we've had in
the-- With the relative safety we've experienced. We ask you at this time to watch over our town, watch
over us. We ask thee for special blessings on those who are suffering financially and for those who are
suffering with their health. We ask a blessing on this meeting. We say these things in thy name. Amen.
Mayor Burk: Everyone please stand and join me for the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the
United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all. So let the record reflect that we need a motion to allow Vice Mayor
Martinez and Council Member Campbell to electronically participate due to the health and safety
concerns associated with the Coronavirus.
Council Member Neil Steinberg: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Mr. Council Member Steinberg. Second?
Council Member Josh Thiel: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Council Member Thiel. All in favor indicate by saying aye.
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: That would be one, two, three, four, four, zero.
Vice Mayor Marty Martinez: Aye.
Mayor Burk: You can't vote on this one yet. Now you can vote.
Vice Mayor Martinez: That's right. I got a little anxious.
Mayor Burk: Okay. So that's 4-0-3. Okay. Special, I have minutes. We've got four different sets of
minutes. There's a Special Council Meeting Minutes of March 18th, 2020. Can I have a motion?
Council Member Fox: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Council Member Fox. Council Member Thiel seconded. All in favor?
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? So that is 6-0-1. Next one is Work Session Minutes March 23rd, 2020. So I
have a motion?
Council Member Steinberg: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Thiel. All in favor?
Council Members: Aye.
2
Mayor Burk: Opposed?
Mayor Burk: 6-0-1. All right, the Regular Session Minutes March 24th? So moved by Council Member
Fox, seconded by Council Member Thiel. Thiel is going for a whole run. All in favor, say aye.
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? All right. I'll say 6-0-1. And the Special Council Meeting of April 3rd. Do I have
a motion?
Council Member Fox: Moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Thiel, went all the way.
All in favor indicate by saying aye.
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? Opposed 6-0-1. Do I have a motion to adopt the meeting agenda?
Council Member Steinberg: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Martinez. All in
favor?
Council Member Ron Campbell: Excuse me, Madam Mayor.
Mayor Burk: Yes?
Council Member Campbell: I would like to add an agenda item for tonight's meeting to amend the
language of the ordinance we passed on April 3rd, ensuring the continuity of government.
Mayor Burk: What is your wording?
Council Member Campbell: Well, I think we have to vote on the motion before we talk about the
motion. I want to add it to the agenda item.
Council Member Thiel: I'll second.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Council Member Campbell made a motion to change some wording to a previously
voted upon resolution, an ordinance and Council Member Thiel seconded it. All in favor of proceeding
with that? Although we're not sure what it is. Mr. Campbell, would you like to briefly explain what you
intend to do?
Council Member Campbell: Well, I did. Everybody got an email this week that I sent to the Town
Manager listing my concern that the language, particularly in Section D-3, didn't reflect the conversation
that we had about ensuring Council participation, not just in canceling meetings, but also in the
electronic communications, particularly if we were going to have an emergency or special meeting that
allow us to meet by electronic means. I believe it was our intent based on the conversation, that that
was a Council decision and not a Mayor decision to make. I'd like the language to be amended to reflect
what the conversation was.
Mayor Burk: All right, Mr. Campbell, we have a motion and a second. All in favor, indicate by saying
that you would like to add this to the agenda. You're not voting for it at this point, you're adding it to the
agenda. All in favor indicate by saying aye.
Council Member Fox: Aye.
Council Member Thiel: Aye.
3
Council Member Campbell: Aye.
Mayor Burk: That's Mr. Thiel. Ms. Fox. Mr. Thiel, Mr. Fox, is there anybody else? Oh, Mr. Campbell.
Council Member Campbell: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?
Council Member Steinberg: Nay.
Vice Mayor Martinez: Nay.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg, Mr. Martinez and Miss Burk. That doesn't move forward at this point. Okay,
do I have a motion from Council Member Steinberg seconded by Council Member Martinez to adopt
the meeting agenda? All in favor indicate by saying aye.
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? All right, that passes 6-0-1.
Council Member Campbell: Madam Mayor?
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Council Member Campbell: I would like to make a motion to rescind the ordinance of continuity of
government that was passed on April of third.
Mayor Burk: Okay, Mr. Campbell has made a motion to rescind the ordinance. Is there a second? All
right, that dies for lack of a second. Council Member Dunn just entered so there is a motion to rescind.
It was made by Mr. Council Member Campbell, seconded by Council Member Dunn. All in favor of
rescinding?
Council Member Fox: Pardon me. Can we ask why?
Mayor Burk: Because he didn't get his wording, I would assume but why Mr. Campbell are you asking
for a rescission?
Council Member Campbell: Let's not be flippant. It's not because I didn't get my wording. If you listen
to the tape, which I did again, and the conversation, while it doesn't specifically talk about Section D-3
and it didn't mention D-2, it did talk about the ability of Council to have input greater than just a
consultation. Particularly when it comes to this specific section, when some of the items and in all
electronic meeting, I believe should be approved by Council because they have to be very specific items
according to again, our Interim Town Attorney, Mr. Crim, that we just can't talk about anything during
these meetings, that we need to be careful.
That, to me is not an individual decision. Now, we want to be clear of Council's involvement and
participation in calling an electronic meeting, as well as deciding on those agenda items. I believe that
this particular section is not as accurate as we would like it to be and it's important to go back and
correct this particular ordinance, given that the day and time that we live in should reflect a whole will
of Council.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Crim, would you opine on this?
Martin Crim: Certainly. The question is D-3 and whether there is an action by the governing body itself
or by the public body in case of subordinate bodies, or whether it's by the Mayor or Chair of that body
to determine whether you're going to have a solely electronic meeting. The problem-- It is on. I will move
this. Okay, I apologize. The problem with having the Council make that decision is that the Council can
4
only act in a meeting and so you'd have to have a meeting to decide whether to have a fully electronic
meeting. That may not always be possible because the reason for the electronic meeting might be that
it simply become too unsafe for us to meet, as we are now with social distancing.
The idea there was to have somebody make the decision, the only person who could make that decision
in the moment would be the Mayor or the Chair. The parallel language that we had in D-2 the Council
amended that at the meeting on the 3rd, to provide for consultation with the Council or the other body,
but no parallel language appears in D-3 because that was not part of the ordinance as presented to you
that evening and that was not part of the discussion. We discussed D-2 but not D-3. Does that answer
your question Madam Mayor?
Mayor Burk: Well, are you saying that D-3, if we change the wording, we would end up having to have
a meeting to talk about having a meeting?
Martin Crim: Yes, if the wording were to be changed to say that only the Council or other public body
could make a decision about whether to have a fully electronic meeting then you've got yourself in a
catch 22 where you have to meet in order to have a fully electronic meeting.
Mayor Burk: We have to meet although it may be a problem that we need to address. We would have
to meet to decide that we were going to meet remotely?
Martin Crim: Correct.
Council Member Campbell: Mr. Crim, if I could ask a question?
Mayor Burk: Mr. Campbell we'll come back to you. You've already spoken. Let me see if other people
have questions. Council Member Fox, your light's on.
Council Member Fox: That was my question.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Council Member Thiel?
Council Member Thiel: If we were to, if we were in need of. Sorry, Mr. Crim. If there was an objective
or item that we needed to bring forward to a meeting last minute and say was about the emergency or
pandemic would we be allowed to do that currently or would we have to have a meeting to discuss even
having a meeting even if it was remotely?
Martin Crim: You can certainly call a special meeting just the same way that you would in pre-virus
times. You would just have the Mayor, or was it two Council members, call it a special meeting and then
that special meeting would happen if you had a quorum you could go forward with it. That's a special
in-person meeting. If I understand your question correctly you could still have a special meeting at any
time called in the normal way. The problem is if you wanted to call a special meeting by solely electronic
means what's the method for saying it's going to be a fully electronic meeting? The ordinance that you
passed on the third provides for the Mayor or the Chair of the public body to make that decision
unilaterally.
Council Member Thiel: So, not two Council members?
Martin Crim: We didn't even contemplate that issue. That’s a great question.
Council Member Thiel: It happened sporadically. I can understand that.
Martin Crim: Yes. So you could certainly envision a rule that said any two Council members may
request a special meeting to be held by fully electronic means.
Council Member Thiel: If we wanted to add something to the ordinance could we do that tonight?
Martin Crim: Yes. It doesn't require a prior notice or advertising and just requires that how each
member voted be recorded in the minutes.
5
Council Member Thiel: Okay. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg? Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Dunn: Thank you.
Mayor Burk: We are discussing at this point rescinding the ordinance that we passed on meetings.
Council Member Dunn: It is a motion to rescind and the previous motion was to, as I was walking in,
that was failed on to suspend the rules to add it to the agenda? Was that what it was? If I could offer up
for Mr. Campbell I would recommend that this motion be withdrawn and resubmitted as a motion to
reconsider. That would allow us to go ahead and consider the motion now for making changes to it.
Whereas to rescind it would be as if to deny the whole motion and then start all over again but then we
would still have the quandary of having to get it back onto the agenda. If you rescind it, it leaves it out
there as being dead but you still didn't get it back on the agenda. I'd recommend making this a motion
to reconsider which would allow us to talk about it and consider any changes you think might be made
to the motion or to the ordinance, excuse me.
Council Member Campbell: I accept the friendly amendment.
Council Member Dunn: I'm going to withdraw my second.
Vice Mayor Martinez: May I have a point of order? A point of order.
Mayor Burk: Council Member Martinez?
Vice Mayor Martinez: In the past unless we are ignoring our rules and procedure, in the past any
changes to the agenda had to be made by unanimous consent. Before we could even discuss or move
any motion forward, we had to have a motion to suspend the rules and we have not done that.
Mayor Burk: We're at the point of adopting the meeting agenda. Mr. Campbell made a motion to include
an item on this agenda-
Vice Mayor Martinez: Yes he has.
Mayor Burk: -and you're saying that in the past we have had to have unanimous vote to do that?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Yes.
Council Member Dunn: That is correct.
Mayor Burk: We have-- Okay. Thank you.
Council Member Dunn: You already voted on that, right? You voted down suspension of the rules?
Mayor Burk: We voted it down, yes.
Council Member Dunn: Is there a motion already on the table to approve the agenda?
Mayor Burk: There's a motion to rescind. Yes there is a motion-
Council Member Dunn: -And that has not been voted on yet?
Mayor Burk: It has not been voted on yet.
Council Member Dunn: Technically. Mr. Campbell, your motion to rescind can happen or motion to
reconsider can happen but they should not happen while another motion is on the table. I would
recommend, if you like--
6
Council Member Campbell: I believe it was voted on. The agenda was also--
Mayor Burk: No, it was not. No, it was not. It was motioned, it was moved. Excuse me.
Council Member Dunn: I think what was voted on was your suspension of the rules.
Mayor Burk: It was moved and it was seconded but it was not voted on.
Council Member Campbell: I don't believe that's correct.
Martin Crim: You did not vote on the motion to approve the agenda.
Mayor Burk: That’s correct. We voted on his change of wording to add it to the agenda but then that
died and then he made a motion to rescind and that is where we are at this point. That was moved by
Council Member Campbell and seconded by Council Member Dunn. We have a motion on the table to
rescind. Do you intend to keep it on there, Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: If it's not in its proper place, then obviously I can't move it until it becomes
in its proper place.
Council Member Dunn: I'll just withdraw my second at this point and that would take us back to
approving the agenda.
Mayor Burk: Okay. I have a motion by Mr. Steinberg, seconded by Council Martinez. All in favor of
adopting the meeting agenda indicate by saying aye.
Council Members: Aye. Opposed?
Council Member Dunn: Madam Mayor?
Mayor Burk: Opposed? I need to hear the opposed. So that passes 7-0.
Council Member Dunn: Madam Mayor?
Mayor Burk: Yes, sir?
Council Member Dunn: I'd like to make a motion to reconsider the previous agenda item, which was
the passing of the continuity and government ordinance. I would like to make a motion to reconsider
that.
Mayor Burk: Motion to reconsider. I'm looking it up just a moment, please. All right. It cannot be
amended, but it can be debated. Mr. Dunn is making a motion to do what?
Council Member Dunn: Reconsider.
Mayor Burk: Reconsider a previous ordinance and it was seconded by Council Member Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Yes.
Mayor Burk: All right. Would you have any questions at this point, Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Dunn: I think that there's just a couple things that we need some clarification on that
would help. It may or may not even require any verbal changes to the ordinance but there are a couple
of suggestions I'd like to make as we have our discussion on a small addition to the ordinance, that I
think might clear up a couple of issues that we have.
Mayor Burk: All right. I will add that to the agenda at 13. e. All right. Certificates of recognition, we have
none. We do have three proclamations. They are going to be, I'm going to read them out but they are
going to be either distributed or mailed to the individuals. They will not be coming in to receive them.
7
The first one is Arbor Day, April 24th, 2020. Whereas, in 1872 J. Sterling Morton proposed to the
Nebraska Board of Agriculture that a special day should be set aside for the planting and caring of trees.
Whereas, a special day called Arbor Day was the first observed with the planting of more than a million
trees in Nebraska. Whereas, trees provide many benefits to our community such as reducing the
erosion of topsoil, moderating temperatures, reducing heating and cooling costs, cleaning the air and
water, they also produce oxygen, and provide a habitat for wildlife. Whereas, planting trees and
maintaining mature trees in our Town increases property values, enhances the economic vitality of local
businesses and beautifies our community. Whereas, the Town of Leesburg is recognized by the
National Arbor Day Foundation as a Tree City USA community for 31 consecutive years and desires to
continue its tree planting ways. Whereas, the Leesburg Town Council recognized the Tree Commission
in acceptance of this proclamation. Therefore, proclaimed, by the Mayor and the Town of Leesburg,
Virginia that April 24th is the official Arbor Day of the Town of Leesburg. Proclaimed this 14th day, 2020.
The second one is Earth Day and this is – Whereas, April 22nd, 2020 marks the 50th anniversary of
Earth Day, and whereas, the first Earth Day was enacted in 1970, and engaged over 20 million
Americans to advocate for a cleaner environment. Whereas, Earth Day now has become the world-
wide event and has highlighted some of the most critical environmental issues on our world stage.
Whereas, the Leesburg Town Council challenges every resident to help in conserving and protecting
the environment via green activities such as recycling, water and energy conservation, tree planting,
and active education about environmental issues. Whereas, Leesburg Town Council recognizes Robin
Peacemaker from Loudoun Country Day School as a local educator working with students to
demonstrate and encourage energy conservation, sustainability and usage of renewable energy.
Therefore, the Mayor and the Council of the Town of Leesburg in Virginia hereby proclaim April 22nd,
2020, as Earth Day and encourage all citizens to become engaged in their local communities and joint
efforts to help maintain and improve Leesburg's environment. Proclaimed this 14th day of April, 2020.
The last one is Census day, April 1st. Whereas, Article I, Section 2 of the United States Constitution
mandates a nationwide count of all persons every 10 years with the next census beginning this month.
Whereas, every resident in the Town of Leesburg can and should be counted and the Town has
partnered with the County of Loudoun Complete Count Committee to communicate census information
to residents and to identify populations that are historically undercounted. Whereas, an accurate census
count benefits all Loudoun County residents as over $30M federal funding received by the County each
year is based on census data, and this funding supports critical education, housing, transportation, and
healthcare programs. Whereas, for every Loudoun County resident not counted, the County loses $2K
in federal funding. Whereas, an accurate census count gives a voice to all Loudoun communities and
is essential to the fair creation of local, state and federal election districts. Whereas, the U.S. Census
Bureau has designated April 1st as Census Day to promote the 2020 Census as safe, easy, and
important, and to encourage prompt responses online, by phone or by mail. Therefore, the Mayor and
the Council of the Town of Leesburg in Virginia hereby proclaim April 1st, 2020, as Census Day in the
Town of Leesburg and recognizes the Diversity Commission for their endorsement of this proclamation.
We call upon all residents to be counted by responding promptly to the 2020 Census. Proclaimed this
14th day of April, 2020. Those will go to the individuals named and they will not come forward at the
next Town Council meeting.
Next, we have a presentation. The presentation is the COVID-19 Fiscal Impact Briefing. Mr. Dentler,
you're going to start this?
Kaj Dentler: Sure. Just to kick off the conversation on the budget briefing, Mr. Cournoyer is going to
go through detail for you. The short story is that we're facing some very much unprecedented times in
challenging our budget. We're facing as we see it today, almost a $5M deficit, $4.8M. You'll hear that
number said. Then again, that's what we know now. We're $4.8M projected revenue shortfall, which
I've already taken actions on the expenditure side so that we can balance out. We're required to balance
out our budget, unlike the federal government, we can't print money to come to where we need to be.
Though some of those steps which Jason will go through include freezing vacant positions that we
have. Those just come about. When they do, everything is greatly scrutinized. Do we need that
position to be filled at this moment? Can we wait a while? Eliminating all travel and training, we've cut
the operating budgets obviously because Ida Lee is closed and the Balch is closed, there's no
expenditures or part-time salaries. If we were to be open, order of magnitude, part-time salaries is about
$150 to $160K a month for those two operations. We've taken advantage of those personnel savings.
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Of course, on the flip side, there's revenue loss that we have and then we've really looked closely at
our capital projects to see where those projects are. We haven't cut any projects, but we've looked at
where the money needed to be dispersed based on the progress of those projects. All that being said,
we've been able to balance our situation as we know it today, but the current events are changing on
the hour, on the day etcetera. We will be back in front of you in a month, in the beginning of May, as
well as in the beginning of June to continue to update you and brief you on the situation.
The main message I want to get across to you is we’ll make sure you are up to speed on where we are
and what we're projecting. These projections are only as good as what targets we hit in 30 days, in 60
days, in 90, of which none of us really know where we're going to be. We have to monitor it very closely.
In essence, we're managing the situation as you hire a manager to do and you expect your manager to
do. You expect me to manage your budget, and that's exactly what the team is doing. That just sets up
the overall picture for you. Jason's going to go through the details and then we answer all of your
questions that you have.
Mayor Burk: Are you going to need additional time?
Jason Cournoyer: I don't believe so.
Mayor Burk: Okay.
Jason Cournoyer: I will provide more detail. There's going to be a lot of numbers thrown at you, but I
will try to go through them judiciously, of course. If I can get this to work that would be helpful. The first
one I want to walk through is where we-- These are preliminary projections, of course, we've worked
diligently with our departments in identifying their revenue projections, as well as our consumer taxes,
which are going to be the most affected by the current pandemic conditions.
We all understand the meals tax, transient occupancy tax and BPOL are all tied directly with business
activity. We're projecting a steep decrease in meals tax over the last two quarters of about 50% over
what otherwise would have been projected, which will result in a 14% decrease over the year or an
$800K deficit. Similarly, TOT tax or hotel tax or transient occupancy tax is drastically down in the last
quarter with the pandemic conditions. We see this continue as long as the pandemic conditions continue
at a close to 90% decrease over the last two quarters or 46% decrease over the year, close to $400K
deficit just in that one line item.
Business licenses. We believe that there are going to be some businesses struggling to file and pay
within the fiscal year, which could result in up to 25% decrease in projected actuals on 11% decrease
overall for the year. Again, nearly $400K. With the Parks and Recreation programs being suspended
and the facilities closing, there's $1.5M projected revenue shortfall and nearly a third of their annual
revenue as well. Parking. The suspension of parking fines and charging at the parking garage is going
to have an impact over the year, about 25% decrease or $127K revenue shortfall. Many different items
within the departments and smaller items such as cigarette tax and things like that are a combined
additional $228K decrease. Overall, we are projecting a $3.4M deficit in our Town revenues based on
the current pandemic conditions for FY 2020.
This graph is an exhibit to show you in addition to the $3.4M in revenue shortfall, the Council has
appropriated some of our Unassigned Fund Balance from FY19, close to $1.4M. That generates a
deficit totaling nearly $4.8M or just over $4.8M. This is another bar graph, just to give you some
contextual visualization of the differences between the projected taxes and the budget estimates. You
can see in the red compared to the blue, the blue is the budget estimates, the red is the projected
actuals. Just to show you the difference in the green. Same numbers we just went through.
Like Kaj introduced, there have been a lot of expenditure reductions put in place now or projected for
the end of the year. Personnel makes up about 70% to 80% of our General Fund. That's where we're
going to generate most of our reductions in order to offset the revenue deficit. There are seasonal and
flexible part-time positions tied to many of these town facilities as well as the Parks programs. There's
position turnover, recruitment delays and things like that that produces vacancy savings throughout the
year. We're counting on that to date to help offset the revenue. Then we're freezing close to a dozen
positions currently vacant. I believe Kaj will take further measures if other positions become vacant.
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In addition, we're generating a lot of expenditure reductions through deferring of maintenance. This is
maintenance being postponed or eliminated on facilities. Our town trails and the majority of the savings
is actually coming from the roads. We, fortunately, were a recipient of State revenue sharing for road
maintenance so there will be road maintenance continuing in the fiscal year. We've taken some
reductions there but the State funding is helping. Kaj mentioned the elimination of employee training
and travel and then there is savings from fewer than anticipated weather responses this year as well.
This is a chart similar to how we've approached the budget to give you a visualization of how we've
been able at this point offset the $4.8M in revenue. This is just completing the line graph to show you
that the projected expenditures with all these reductions included there's a slight increase in order to
maintain our 20% unassigned fund balance. We've addressed enough reductions to date the offset
$3.4M in revenue shortfall as well as the use of Unassigned Fund Balance.
That's for FY 2020. We obviously do not know how long the current pandemic conditions are going to
continue but we are looking forward into the next quarter. The next quarter would be July through
September. Every quarter at the current projection where we're at currently projecting for the rest of
2020 is going to produce a deficit in revenue of about $2.76M per each quarter.
Just to reiterate the projection will be based off of a 50% continued meals tax decrease, 25% in BPOL
which we're monitoring closely. BPOL's 21 revenue will be based off of the 2020 calendar year actuals.
BPOL is a particular concern of ours that we will continue to monitor. The low occupancy levels at our
hotels, if it continues, is a drastic decrease of 83% going forward. Sales tax at some point is going to
start decreasing. Sales tax to date has exceeded our budget estimates. For 2020 this isn't a big impact
but it does have an impact on sales tax and we are projecting at least a 10% decrease during pandemic
conditions. Continued suspension of parking, of course, will produce no revenue and then things like
the communications tax will also be a 10% decrease. My apologies for going over.
Just to reiterate every quarter is about $2.7M. If it goes through the calendar year it could produce
potentially a deficit of about $5.5M in revenue. This slide is to show you that 21 is upon us in July but
we also are looking forward into that FY22 budget. Some of these are the dates that we will be coming
to you monthly I believe, if not more to give you updates on our revenue projections as this involved.
Some of these are notable dates that we wanted to highlight that the meals and transit occupancy taxes
are due quarterly and the next, the first quarter of FY 2021 will be in September 2020 and that is right
on the doorstep of when we will begin our budget development proceedings for 22. You're free to ask
me any questions. I can give you further detail.
Kaj Dentler: Let me just wrap it up. That calendar that he showed you in the last slide is just to visually
show you there are a lot of dates and targets, milestones, that we have between now and when I show
back up in February to present a budget. A lot of things could happen between now and then. We don't
know what that's going to be. In FY 20 I'm confident that we can manage the situation well as we know
it today. Obviously, I don't know what it's going to be tomorrow, in 60 days etcetera. With our reserves
that we have or our Debt Service Reserve Fund, it also serves as a Revenue Stabilization Fund in our
20% Unassigned Fund Balance, I'm confident with where we are that we can manage through FY 20.
The area that has me greatest concern, and it should you as well, is FY 21. If the current health crisis
continues and prolongs itself and we stay living in this new normalcy, that's going to be a challenge.
Whenever we are allowed to have the green light to go back into somewhat of our normal lives, how
long does it take for economic consumer confidence to return? That is also a trigger that we don't know.
I'm hopeful that the economy will see us return to some level of normalcy by September when school
is scheduled to reopen. If we don't reach that and it goes into Thanksgiving and the holidays we have
some serious concerns. I just tell you that to let you know that we are very much watching this closely.
We're very much engaged in it. A lot of time and effort and we're going to make sure that you're briefed
up every month and if they need to make amendments obviously we'll make those amendments and
we're managing those. With that, I'll stop and we'll take any questions that you have.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Thiel?
Council Member Thiel: The $4.8M that you mentioned Jason, that's for this year? Why not the same
for 2021? Would there be a potential nine point something million dollar deficit?
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Jason Cournoyer: Two things are happening in 2020. We're in the last quarter of 2020 so a lot of our
consumer taxes have been collected to date. They've exceeded budget estimates. One notable one is
sales tax. Sales tax was exceeding budget estimates. We're going to come in a little bit over budget
estimates for FY 2020 but it is a decrease in the last quarter. It then goes into 2020 and does have
impacts of where we're projecting 21 actuals.
Council Member Thiel: Okay. How did you come up with the $4.8M? Is that actual numbers or is that
potential?
Jason Cournoyer: Maybe the exhibit may help here as well. That's based off of these kinds of
assumptions of how the consumer taxes are going to come in.
Council Member Thiel: All that's taken into effect for the $4.8? All right. Thank you very much.
Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox?
Council Member Fox: Just a couple of questions. I've taken a look at the graphic that you have for the
balancing the fiscal years, $4.8M for revenues $4.8M for expenditures. I see the debt service is $1.1.
Are you saying for the $1.1M we will not be putting that forward to debt service?
Jason Cournoyer: It's based off of a few things. We have planned bond funding in our CIP. We've
been fortunate to receive some revenue as well from outside sources, NVTA or the County and things
like that that are incorporated. Primarily this savings is coming from line of credit, the use of the line of
credit that we began that practice this past summer which allows us not to issue permanent debt and
have that debt service before the expenditure, the actual comes in. Some of these measures we've
been making in order to get through 2021 is less use of our line of credit compared to budgeted
estimates.
Council Member Fox: Which takes me to my second question. You mentioned CIP or actually Kaj
mentioned CIP in his opening remarks on this. Some of this capital projects, what are some of those
that we're thinking of putting off? What are some of those that are going to go forward? I guess with the
schools being closed with some of the other pending projects like the West Market Street why can't
those be pushed up?
Kaj Dentler: We haven't made any adjustments in the CIP program schedule at this point. What the
reference is that based on looking at where the progress is of the projects whether it's design, land
acquisition, going to bid for construction, etcetera, tells us where the cash flow needs are. What Jason's
informing you of is that he's able to use line of credit at the appropriate time versus drawing down the
bond. Once the team draws the bonds then we have that permanent debt. He's managing the cash flow
based on the progress of the projects.
The projects themselves have not been delayed or put off schedule. It's just looking at exactly where
the staff is on the development of those projects because even though we estimate that they're going
to hit certain milestones they don't always hit those at certain times so then going very close to see
where are you? When are you going to need the money in order to keep the project going? That's what
he's referring to.
Council Member Fox: Thank you because that leads to that direct question about West Market Street.
Schools closed. No traffic. Can we get that pushed ahead?
Kaj Dentler: I've asked Renee and her staff to move that forward. She's working with Madigan, the
contractor to do that as quickly as possible. As soon as their paperwork is all confirmed everything's
lined up so if they can, yes. We're on the same page there. We want them to go sooner if they could all
possibly do so.
Council Member Fox: The County is doing a practice of holding back $100M in their budget this year.
$60 million for school board, $40M for general. Are we doing anything like that or is that what this
constitutes?
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Kaj Dentler: Theirs is primarily using funds that are already approved for their FY21 budget and
freezing things like new positions, new projects or whatever. They're just freezing certain amount of
money. $100M is their target because they don't know what point in time that they may have to pull
back from those projects, whether they're going to be able to go forward. We haven't reserved those
funds yet. We don't have anything near the order of magnitude that they do.
Our budget is $61 million and they've frozen $100M. What we are looking at ahead in FY21, what
projects or initiatives we may need to hold on. We don't need to make that decision now. We don't need
to make that in May but when we get to June that's when the decision points need to be made that I
need to implement so you will know what I am doing and what your confidence level is. So, yes that's
coming.
Council Member Fox: That was my question. Alright, thanks.
Kaj Dentler: In essence, we're buying time until we have to make a decision.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: I have no questions.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Dunn: Thank you. On the meals tax, you are estimating a 50% loss between now
and June 30th. You said you got that information from a local government projection report. What more
is in that report that you can share with us that they came up with 50%?
Jason Cournoyer: The difficulty with meals tax is it’s self-reported, so it's reported after the quarter.
What that is based off of is the region's economic development directors working with their managers
and their public bodies. We've been on several calls with other regional managers and things like that.
Fifty is where they have projected. We believe that 50% at this point without further input based on any
receipts out there we will not get any receipts from restaurants unfortunately until June. We're projecting
half of the consumer activity through the end of June.
Council Member Dunn: Do you have anything, and I guess we'll be hearing about this in our next
presentation, but obviously we can go by regional data. We need to be focusing on obviously what's
here in Leesburg because what happens regionally doesn't help us at all when it comes to the dollars.
I guess we'll find out from our next report. I hope that as we make these decisions going forward and
this may be something that we have to discuss in more detail at another meeting, that we're not just
using anecdotal information but actual facts.
While we don't know what's going on with receipts until June hopefully driving around we can tell
whether one, are 50% of the businesses, what percentage of the business are open. From that you
can gather what percentage of customers are patronizing these businesses. My anecdotal impression
is that it's a lot less than 50%. I would be surprised if we're able to meet that 50% number.
The other question I had was what were the items that you all were planning on using? Going to your
slide with the graph and with the big V on it, the big blue V, Unassigned Fund Balance projected. You're
projecting to use some of that fund balance to hit certain shortfalls this year, but weren't we planning
on using the Unassigned Fund Balance for other things when we were discussing the budget? If so,
what were they that are no longer going to be addressed by that Unassigned Fund Balance?
Jason Cournoyer: To clarify, the Council has approved the use of Unassigned Fund Balance and it's
creating a bigger deficit because we have to backfill it in order to meet our 20% requirements. I have a
list here at the end of what makes up, constitutes that $1.3M between the Interim Town Attorney, the
volunteer contributions this year, the call handling equipment, that's the majority of it. This is going
against our 20% that in order to meet our fiscal requirement at the end of FY 2020, we have to backfill.
Council Member Dunn: So, you're saying that these were the items that were earmarked just a month
or so ago for use of the Unassigned Fund Balance which will now not be used for that in order to make
up for the shortfalls in the regular budget?
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Jason Cournoyer: No. There's no change in planned use of the supplemental appropriations. Some
of these have already been expended as well. The Internet Service Provider we are nearly done with
that. The Interim Town Attorney, the contribution to the fire rescue companies has already been made,
call handling equipment is nearly implemented as well. There's no planned reduction in use of that fund.
Council Member Dunn: Our Unassigned Fund Balance was not only enough to meet that $1.3M but
also the $4.8M shortfall?
Jason Cournoyer: The revenue shortfall is $3.4M. Because of the current pandemic conditions we are
going to receive $3.4M less in revenue. You add in the $1.4M use of Unassigned Fund Balance that
we have to address in order to meet fiscal requirements that's where you get to the $4.8M.
Council Member Dunn: And that $4.8M almost $4.9M, let's call it $5M just to make it simple. That $5M
actually represents what the Unassigned Fund Balance would have been for this current year?
Jason Cournoyer: A portion of the offsetting of the expenditure reductions is an increase in order to
maintain the 20%. It's about $130K based on current projected expenditures that we'll need over the
$11.6M. The majority of these reductions are offsetting the revenue if you're following.
Council Member Dunn: Okay. What portion of the $5M in reductions is projected to be Unassigned
Fund Balance?
Jason Cournoyer: There's $130K to get to the projected policy requirement of $11.7M. If you see the
difference between $11.6M and $11.7M, that's $130K that we're projecting currently will be needed to
maintain the 20%. The Town Manager has identified reductions in order to accommodate that increase
for the 20% and also address the revenue shortfall. The Town Manager has authorized reductions
totaling more than the $4.9M in order to address the 20% requirement as well.
Council Member Dunn: I guess I'm just not asking the right question. What amount is the
Undesignated Fund Balance to meet the shortfall? How much is it? Just the $130K?
Jason Cournoyer: The $130K is the increase to the 20% based off of projected expenditures. We are
not at this time planning to use any Unassigned Fund Balance to offset the revenue deficit.
Council Member Dunn: All right. Thank you. We went around the barn for that one. The 20% is what
we have imposed upon ourselves. That is not being directed that we maintain that by anybody but our
own policy setting. Correct?
Jason Cournoyer: True.
Council Member Dunn: Prior to that, it was 15%?
Jason Cournoyer: It was.
Council Member Dunn: Prior to that, I think we were at 12% or 13%, something like that?
Jason Cournoyer: 15% as long back as I know.
Council Member Dunn: Okay. The impact to lowering that maybe in possible, our bond rating which
impacts the percentage at which we may be able to borrow money in the future.
Jason Cournoyer: It will impact our bond rating potentially but moreover, it's working capital so having
a 20%, I think it's about, if Clark was here he'd tell me on the spot, it's about eight weeks’ worth of
operating expenditures. When things like this happen, it provides you the flexibility to respond to it. The
impact from 20% to 15%, or rather than the inverse going 15 to 20, was that last critical factor in getting
to our bond rating currently. That does result in a lot of debt service savings as we know.
Council Member Dunn: Okay. One thing that I would like to say and I know that we're trying to maintain
Town services and Town staff employment, but we also have to recognize that, and I mentioned to this,
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I think last time with the budget meeting is when we have shortfalls, those shortfalls are your items here
on your page one, projected 2020 shortfalls. Can you tell me the time is behind me, Suzanne? If I could
just 10 seconds.
Mayor Burk: No, your time's up.
Council Member Dunn: Of course, I'll do it in the three minutes I have remaining.
Mayor Burk: There's no three minutes remaining at this point. There's five minutes for these meetings.
Go read your rules.
Council Member Dunn: All right. Very good. [crosstalk]
Mayor Burk: Mr. Campbell? Now, someone can give you their minutes if they like.
Council Member Dunn: Say it again.
Mayor Burk: Someone can give you their minutes. Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Yes. Thank you, Jason and the finance team. I appreciate all the work.
Just one suggestion because it seems like we'll be working remotely for a little while for these
presentations if we can have them electronically. I know you want to present them as you go along, but
it's hard to just follow on the screen or follow later, so I appreciate at least at the end of the presentation,
something electronically so we can have follow up questions.
On a similar track, and again, I appreciate how hard it is to do modeling when you're dealing with
actuals, and I appreciate the fact that there have been other advisements from State government and
other municipalities about the fiscal impacts. At some point, I wonder if the COVID-19 information is
gathered in such a way that we could get it as an advisement because I have to believe we're not the
only municipality in the Commonwealth that's going to have some fiscal impact in relationship to this
crisis.
It would be nice to see either what challenges, what solutions, or what opportunities. Let me ask you a
hard question that is probably not hard to imagine. The situation currently as projected to June 30th
could get worse. Is that correct?
Jason Cournoyer: We're optimistic at this point but yes, so it absolutely could.
Council Member Campbell: No. Again, I'm not taking anything away from our current ability to deal
with it. I appreciate the Town Manager saying, obviously, we're going to be at this a lot longer than we
were at the budget in terms of a monthly looking at impacts and adjustments or even policies like the
other side, the fund balance policy, may have to be revisited. I understand the Unassigned Fund
Balance is practice value to the Town as an economic resource, so as we start even projections for
2021 obviously, everything that gets on the table will be reviewed.
I'm not opposed to what we've had to do to maintain it. Currently, as you said, this $130K increase to
make that work, but the reality is all comes at a price. That's why I think it's important that we have
these regular meetings, we look at understanding that there's no way to fiscally rebound in the same
time period that we've been down and if we were down another month, doesn't suggest it’ll reopen and
revenue just doesn't flow through the door.
I know by June, at least, I would hope it would be by June, we are having a presentation about budget
impacts for FY21 and the kinds of considerations that you've laid out here that we may have to be
making as well. No one wants to stay in this crisis, but we do have to project some realistic basis. I
know while our modeling now, it's not a perfect model and you take a good advisements from a lot of
agencies. I do agree with Mr. Dunn at some point, we're going to have to use real Leesburg numbers.
I know that maybe some will be in the next presentation, as our Economic Development Department
looks at some of the survey information that they've collected and some of the reality that has knocked
at some businesses are closed, we have to project that some may not reopen and that could be due
for a number of different reasons. I won't get into that now. Again, without having a whole lot of time to
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look at this, my only real question is and it may be for the projection that we see in May. Are we going
to be able to start to see more actuals, because the impact of some of the revenue may not be collected
in the fourth quarter. The businesses are not open in the fourth quarter. I hope by June we'll be able to
see more actuals before we get to the end of the year. Would that be your assumption that we could do
that?
Jason Cournoyer: Yes, sir. That's a great point, because the third quarter, which will be January
through March should be collected in within the next month. We hope by probably the late May briefing
to have a better handle on some of these consumer taxes that are quarterly, as well as our BPOL, our
business licenses and our business tangible taxes. Those are some unknowns right now that we
actually don't know the impact, particularly business licensing is based off of 2019 calendar year actuals.
It's the same as they’re reporting to the Federal Government. There is no impact on COVID-19 on last
year's actuals. This is more on a filing and ability to pay on businesses. That is one unknown that we
have right now that we should be able to in May be able to better report out for you Council.
Council Member Campbell: Again, only for the point of to make policy decisions, I realize we have
trends that we're working at and looking at and impacts. As it affects people's lives or staff or other
types of services that we provide, we want to make them with the strongest information as possible and
I know that's your value and efforts as well. Thank you for the work you've presented today.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez?
Vice Mayor Martinez: I'm here. I want to apologize. I've missed some of the discussions because my
headset went out on me so I had to do something else but I'm back. What I did want to talk about was
I appreciate the presentation. Maybe what you can answer for me is right now, we really are not having
an issue with our water and sewer and our Capital Improvement projects. Am I right?
Jason Cournoyer: Correct.
Vice Mayor Martinez: Our really big concern is our General Fund and our $61M budget we projected?
Jason Cournoyer: That's correct. Yes, sir.
Vice Mayor Martinez: Is that right?
Jason Cournoyer: Yes, sir.
Vice Mayor Martinez: The big concern I have about that shortfall is, what are our plans? What are we
going to do when things start ramping up again, and how are we going to address what we can do for
the businesses and kick starting them to move forward.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez, we're going to talk about that later in the meeting.
Vice Mayor Martinez: Okay. [unintelligible 01:01:17]
Mayor Burk: That may answer your questions.
Vice Mayor Martinez: What was that?
Mayor Burk: That may answer many of your questions.
Vice Mayor Martinez: I do want staff to do me a favor. I don't have any idea on what my time limit is
other than trying to do a guess. If there's some way they could project the timer on the screen, I would
appreciate that. The other thing is that I really want staff to understand that I know that they are working
hard to keep the Town solvent. Right now, I don't think we're in as bad a place as we could have been.
With that, understand that my concern is not just the Town but also the businesses and residents and
how we can offer some relief for them. I know it's going to cost us, but I think in the long run we're going
to be better off serving our residents and our businesses. I'll leave it at that.
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Mayor Burk: Jason you're not asking for us to do anything tonight. You're going to come back next
month and the month after and then possibly in June we will be at the point where we have to make
some decisions.
Kaj Dentler: I’ll be back in front of you, 1st of May with another report when we have more information,
it continues to evolve. We are actively working on it. One thing I do want to clarify and Jason talked
about when he mentioned using regional information, what he didn't say is we're using Town information
as well. We're not using regional so we know what businesses are doing generally now. Today's
operation most businesses, if they're doing in the retail or if they're in restaurant, if they're doing 20-
25% today of what they used to do, that's a pretty good day. That gives you an idea. We have an idea
of what's going on out there. I just didn't want you to think that was just based on regional information.
Mayor Burk: Thank you. Now you're going to do a report on the relief proposal? Do you need more
time for this one?
Kaj Dentler: I don't think so.
Jason Cournoyer: He'll never say yes.
Kaj Dentler: Is this one? I'll eat my words. Trying to look at what the Town may be able to do to provide
some relief to our businesses in response to the current pandemic situations. Some of you have asked
about this, staff has been looking at it. Russell Seymour, our Economic Development Director, his staff
have been looking at it. We've had a few requests but not a lot of requests. Our responses have been,
in case I forget this later, is that everything is being dealt with on a case-by-case basis Whatever your
business is required to do in filing, you're expected to file on time just like you would do our personal
taxes and then we will work with you on a case-by-case basis.
We've looked at our personal property, meals tax, TOT, hotel tax and business license, which we're
going to go through here. First thing on personal property, business tangible tax, the County extended
payment due date from May 5th to June 5th. We're practicing in that way but we want you to go ahead
and formalize that. As you know, they bill and collect for us now, so we just want to make sure that
we're consistent with that. That's a no-brainer, gives businesses an extra 30 days, for anyone extra 30
days.
On regards to meals and transient occupancy tax, both of these taxes it's very important to remember,
I know that you know this, is that these are trust taxes. These are taxes that are added on to your bill,
if you go to a hotel in Town or you go to a restaurant in Town. As a result, and I'll show you an example,
this is not the business' money, this is actually the Town government's money that the business is
collecting and is required to hold and pay to the Town on a quarterly basis. If they pay that on time, they
get a 5% discount.
Meals tax is 3.5% and transient and occupancy tax is 6%. On top of the TOT, 2% additional goes to
NVTA. The Town needs to meet its obligations that we have just like any other business or person has
as creditors that we've got to pay as well. Here's a quick example on meals tax. You have a meal that's
$40, pick whatever you want it to be. The sales tax to the State is added on to that and then the meals
tax is 3.5%. In this example an extra $1.40 is added to the tab. That $1.40 is a pass-through tax but the
business is required to hold it a trust tax.
They hold that $1.40 times however many transactions they have during that quarter, at the end of that
quarter they are required to pay that bill. In this case $43.80 does not-- Well, that $40 of the business
is their money. The sales tax and the meals tax are someone else's money. The business is getting,
they're getting what they need to operate their business. The meals tax and the sales tax, as well as
the TOT layer is not meant to be cash flow for the business. If that's the business model that the
business is using it's a flawed and will be a failed policy in practice if they’re using it.
This is a trust tax, it's owed to someone else. They're simply expected to hold it and if they pay on time,
then they get a discount for paying that off. It's not coming out of their profit. Transient occupancy tax
is the same principle. It's a pass-through tax, 6% goes to the Town. This bill shows a $250 bill, 6% is in
to $15, it comes to the Town for our TOT, and then NVTA is an additional 2% that we then have to pay.
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The meals tax equates about $5.7M to $5.8M annually to the Town. I believe that our TOT is about
$800K, $900K total to the Town annually.
The recommendations in order to-- options that I'm presenting to you that could offer some business
relief are identified within this chart. First off, for meals and transient occupancy tax. The businesses
need to file on April 20th. That's what's been informed to them through Russell's office, Finance office,
they know this. Some have called to ask, some have asked for help. Most have not. This is our standard
date, so they need to file on that date.
If they file on that date and they pay on time, on that date of April 20th, I'm recommending that they get
in the second column, a 10% discount instead of a 5% discount off of what they owe, as long as they
file on time and pay on time.
If they file on time, but they pay within 30 days, which is May 20th, then the standard 5% discount is
what would apply through our recommendation. That allows the business to get an extra 30 days, file
on time, get an extra 30 days but still see the 5% discount. If they're filed on time but unable to pay
even within 30 days up to May 20th, then we're recommending a 90-day extension when they would
not be charged penalty and interest. If you file on time and pay on time, you get a 10% credit or discount
off of what you owe, which is up 5% from what we would get today. That will encourage businesses
that can to pay us sooner so we get that money sooner and get it into our investments, etcetera, sooner.
It helps our cash flow.
If they file on time and pay within 30 days, they get the standard 5% discount still incentivizes them to
get that in, they get the extra 30 days plus the 5%. If they can't pay within that 30-day window, they still-
- We're recommending they still get the 90 days and with no count interest. It helps our cash flow
situation. The key of all of it, though, is file on time. BPOL, our business professional occupational
license fees, these are business taxes. These are flat fees or taxes that the business has to pay
calculated on a percentage of their gross receipts, etcetera. This is what they owe no different than we
pay as our residents to the Federal Government and the State. It's the business tax. They need to file
on May 1 that date hasn't changed. If they pay by, in our recommendation, they pay by July 20th, it's a
90-day extension, there's no penalty. They pay after that, then there's penalty and interest kicks in.
There's no incentive through the program to pay sooner, but they do have 90 days to pay that. The
caution on this applies to how you separate certain businesses. This will be very helpful to some of the
medium to small-size businesses. Big businesses, if you think about what businesses are doing well in
this economy right now, Costco, Target, they're not going to need the 90-day, probably not going to
take the 90 days. You certainly don't want to incentivize them, but we have to be careful what we do.
Again, they need to file most importantly by May 1, and these are just dates that we have that you've
already seen. What I'm offering or recommending to you in order to provide some business relief and
incentives for our businesses is to pay, to file on time, meals tax and TOT to pay early, or within 30
days, but if they can't, then 90 days with no penalty and interest. That allows them to manage their
cash flow, us to get our money as soon as we can to help our situation and BPOL to provide a 90-day
grace period of time.
That's our recommendation. Our team of staff and Economic Development staff and Finance, and the
Town Attorney's Office, as well as Budget, been working on options for this. Mr. Seymour is here, he
can give you information on interactions that he's had with the businesses and what he's heard. With
that, I'll stop and we'll take all your questions.
Mayor Burk: Thank you. Mr. Dunn. Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Dunn: I didn't hear you. It's actually hard to hear down here. Actually, could we hear
from the Economic Development Director? I don't know if he has anything to add to the report, but
generally, if you have any information about the business climate of Leesburg out there, I'd love to hear
it.
Russell Seymour: We have and we've done a couple things in reaching out to them. We have sent
emails out to about a little over 2,000 of our actual Leesburg businesses. We've also been making
phone calls on a regular basis and encouraging them to call us. When Mr. Dentler mentioned the
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comment about doing things on a case-by-case basis, that's been a lot of our focus up to this point.
That said, I will mention, some of the things that we are hearing back from the businesses and as we've
talked about, they understand the times are bad. They also realize that one of the things we wanted to
do in looking at the third quarter in particular, was even though they've already had their sales generated
and that money is sitting there, giving that money back to them in the third quarter as well as the fourth
was much more of an incentive for them than simply concentrating on the fourth quarter and possibly
the first quarter of next year, realizing that those business numbers are going to be very low and
everything that we're talking about working with them on, is giving them the break on the higher numbers
that are coming in.
We talked about the 20% to 25% of their businesses, that's retail, that's also restaurants. The majority
of sit-down restaurants right now have had to try to revamp themselves to actually do curbside
assistance, or curbside service. Most of the ones that we've talked about, said, "Russ, we're just not
accustomed to that, we're not used to doing it. We're making it work the best we can, but we're lucky to
be in about that 20% time of range for that." Now, the balance of that is that, obviously, the drive-through
restaurants are doing a little bit better than typically what they've seen, but I think across the board,
we're seeing those numbers down consistently. Cash flow is also a major problem with businesses.
The ones that we've worked with and I've worked through the SBDC that have applied for the State and
Federal loans or grants, have a 90-day in some case return, even those applications and I'll say 45 to
90 days once they approve your application.
Being very honest, there are a lot of businesses that may not be in business in 90 days. We've been
very focused on trying to close that gap and seeing that. What you've heard tonight has been presented
to us because the question we asked the businesses is, rather than me sit up here or staff sit up here
and guess, tell us what you're experiencing. Cash flow has been the number one issue and trying to
help them for the next 60 to 90 days and that cash flow focus, or has been a focus of staff's at this point.
Council Member Dunn: Great. Do we have closures, business closures outright? They couldn't handle
getting through 30 days, never mind, as you said 90 days. Do you know what closures might be right
now?
Russell Seymour: As of right now, I have not heard of any specific closures dealing with this particular
Coronavirus that we're working with. Fortunately, we have not seen a lot of that yet. It's getting very
difficult. There are some businesses that have chosen to close and there were some obviously that had
to close. Business owners, what I have found is, in a lot of cases, if you can manage to get out of their
way, they're pretty crafty and I will give Town staff a lot of credit in wanting to work with those businesses
and allowing them to do things.
Hotels, for example, some hotels are owned by the same group. They simply closed one hotel and
combine it into one. We're seeing that, same thing with restaurants. A lot of restaurants, if you have one
type that's a sit-down versus one type that's more of a carryout. A lot of businesses are closing the sit-
down and moving their staff and focusing on the carryout and that's helped them balance the numbers.
I've not heard of any in particular, certainly not large numbers at this point, although I suspect within the
next 30 or 60 days that will change.
Council Member Dunn: I've heard some business. Don't keep trying to get away.
Russell Seymour: No, I'm making sure to give everybody a chance here.
Council Member Dunn: I don't know if it was in Leesburg, but there are some businesses that, for
example, restaurants, who are transitioning because they have certain suppliers and may have a
product already on their shelves, but because business is down 75% that they're actually turning into
selling groceries. Do we have the means by which that can be allowed that if they have the ability to
even deliver groceries, that they're receiving product from vendors that they can turn into basically
makeshift grocery services if they so choose?
Russell Seymour: Actually, that's a very good idea. I have not heard a Leesburg business--
Council Member Dunn: I'll take full credit.
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Russell Seymour: We'll make sure you get that, but, no, I have not heard of a Leesburg business doing
that. However, I will say, in the couple of instances where we've had, in particular, restaurants ask
Town, "Can we do--" and fill in the blank, Town will look at it and say, "It's not in the zoning ordinance,
but you know what, it's going to work."
Council Member Dunn: These are different times.
Russell Seymour: I will tell you, bar none, we've not had Town staff turn down any request that's come
back. As long as safety is not an issue and some of the other issues, they've been really good about
getting, again, getting out of their way to help them with it.
Council Member Dunn: Also, have we considered any type of grant program? We just got through
hearing about the financial situation, which sounds like we're in pretty good shape while it is tight. Are
there things that we can do to tighten the belt even more to help businesses that could be struggling
because, after all, a failed business is future lost revenue to the Town?
Russell Seymour: Unquestionably. As we continue to move forward, there have been some things that
staff has looked at that may or may not be appropriate at this time, but I think, as we're starting to look
more into the distant future, that may come up. One of the things that we're very focused on is doing
things that are actually going to be directed at helping the businesses versus doing things that may look
good.
The reason why I say that, I've seen a lot of localities toss around a lot of ideas, and they're getting a
lot of very positive press, but when I talk to our businesses about it, they're saying, "That's really not
going to help us." We've chosen to focus on exactly what they're asking for. That may be something to
look at in the future. The biggest thing they've asked us, though, and that's where this comes in, is we
give them those 90 days, that helps cover the gap for those that have applied for those loans. That's
been the big ask that they've had is, "Help us get through this gap." That's what we've been focused
on.
Council Member Dunn: Kaj-- Thank you. As I mentioned just a minute ago, and I mentioned it during
the budget session that when we look at shortfalls, our shortfalls in our budget are greatly multiplied by
the tremendous shortfalls that are actually experienced by the citizens on the street. Whether they'd be
individual taxpayers or business taxpayers, patrons of businesses. One thing, if we could consider to
carry on what I just asked last, is if we could look at our numbers and be prepared to pull that off the
shelf if the situation arises, where could we go to help salvage businesses which also salvage
employees, which also salvage tax dollars in the future because if we continue on the trend that we see
so far, and hopefully we don't, then we're not just looking at tremendous shortfalls today that we may
be able to cover, but huge shortfalls next year that, as I said, a closed business today is a tremendous
shortfall tomorrow. If we could look at maybe some other ideas of direct financial benefits to businesses
which help keep them open, help keep people employed, help future tax revenues to come in, I think
that would be a good thing also. The other thing that I would suggest is that, and what's my time, Kelly?
Kaj Dentler: 1:40.
Mayor Burk: You have 1:40.
Council Member Dunn: Thank you. On the meals tax, I know you were talking about, again, a decrease
right now in this last quarter. The way I see it is, if you can find ways of reducing the taxes that citizens
have to pay. If I don't have to pay a 3.5% meals tax, if it's known that Leesburg has waived meals tax
between now and July 1st, what I think that does is not just give the business, and I'm not trying to give
them a benefit by them collecting a meals tax they don't want to pay, but that the citizens know that
they can actually save money coming to Leesburg and actually become customers again of these
businesses.
One thing with the shut in that we have is, businesses that are struggling, even those businesses that
are staying open, the shut in takes away their customer base. If we can help get more customers out
to the drive-thrus where it's safe to do it, thereby showing that they can save money and not have a
meals tax pay and that help drive business to the consumers, we're helping them stay in business for
next year's budget. I know it's a pinch on this year's budget but I'd rather pinch now and know that it's
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going to be there next year when these businesses are able to survive. I'd recommend waiving the
meals tax altogether between now and June 30th. As far as the BPOL, I'm not sure how much traveling
people are doing these days so I don't know if there's a benefit in waiving that. I'm sorry the transit
occupancy, but BPOL, that's already been collected. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: All right. Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Yes, thank you Mr. Town Manager. The first question for Mr. Seymour.
Again, as you talked about the survey that you did back in March and I know we communicated this
week. I wonder now, has there been any conversation I’ll ask and tell you why I'm asking because I've
been a lot of Zoom phone calls and particularly one on Monday with Senator Wexton. The majority of
the conversation about the Small Business Administration were the problems that people have getting
loans. As a program, we keep talking about expectations of people getting loans within 90 days or
payroll protection, monies and different kinds of things that just aren't working for the small businesses.
I don't know if that's what you're hearing in the conversations you're having, but if we're going to start
modeling where we think relief may happen in a certain time frame, and we're not hearing that time
frame and we know that there's a disproportional impact between some businesses, small and large,
and some of our small businesses. Everybody doesn't have the same universal landscape to have
relief. Now, I just wonder are you hearing that as well because that's what I'm experiencing.
Russell Seymour: Yes, sir, Mr. Campbell. We're hearing that the process has been very difficult. At
one point, they-- When you were looking at actually applying for some of these loans, it is my
understanding that actually the computers crashed a number of times. They were actually looking at
receiving faxes for some of the application. You're completely correct, in the fact, the systems have
been overwhelmed and the original 30 to 45 days continues to get moved out. We are being told that
some of these businesses are now starting to receive funds. The programs from a business standpoint
are good, they are effective. It's just been a matter of getting to the point where they're actually receiving
those funds. You are correct, we have heard that delay has been substantial.
Council Member Campbell: Thank you, and then the second question for you is then, whatever relief
that we're thinking about here, is it just to really buy time beyond the end of the restrictions on having
restaurants open and our ability to travel freely or is it an intermediate step at the end of this fiscal year?
Because we only see this as a step, it's not a solution for people's money problem flows.
Russell Seymour: If I'm understanding-- Go ahead, Mr. Campbell. I'm sorry.
Council Member Campbell: This is just an intermediate step, this isn't a solve all. This is just a step.
Russell Seymour: That is correct and I would caution us against trying to come up with one, we're
going to solve everything in one fatal or one complete passage at this point. What we're doing is, we're
addressing things that we're seeing right now. I don't think anybody can predict what's going to happen
in six months. What I would not want to do is have us extend ourselves, or put ourselves in a position
where we are then having to come back and fix something. Whereas, if we know we could do something
now called a stopgap measure, correct, or assist in what we're hearing about now, then that as we
continue to monitor, Mr. Campbell, we are sincerely monitoring this on a daily basis. As we're doing
that, as things change, as the economy changes, as the restrictions change, then if needed, we can
come up with something tailored at that point, to help address some of the concerns that might be
coming up.
Council Member Campbell: No, thank you very much. I certainly appreciate the work you and your
office is doing. Again, I talked to a lot of people, and the Mason Enterprise Center and the consulting
support that our small businesses are getting is tremendous. It obviously doesn't immediately put money
in people's pocket, but I think that's why you're right about we're not looking for solutions, but we're at
least looking for interim steps that are going to be helpful, not exacerbate the problem for us or for them.
At the same time, give them a chance, one day, a thing that's called recovery. Well, thank you very
much.
Russell Seymour: Yes, sir.
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Council Member Campbell: The next one goes to the Town Manager, and it's about the slide that's
currently up about the business payment relief options. I disagree with the 10% early payment
discounts. I look at the disproportional impacts for businesses, and some have the cash flow and that's
an incentive not just the pay, because I believe most of our businesses pay on time anyway, but it's
also additional resources in the pockets of those who already have it.
We know our struggling businesses, they don't pay just because they don't want to pay. I believe they
don't pay because they don't have the money. They can't take advantage of their early payment
discount, because they just don't have the money. Here we are incentivizing those who have versus
those who don't have. We've already seen and felt the disproportional impact of this virus on
communities of color, small businesses, even as it relates to the death of those who suffer from this
virus.
I'd hate to us to walk down a path that is somehow incentivizing those who have versus those who don't
have. I agree with our early payment discount program. I believe that 5% is enough. Because most of
the people pay on time anyway, unless somebody can show me differently. Our grace period, I would
agree with, in our 30-day extension. I would agree with mainly, again, because these other Federal
relief programs are just not happening in a timely fashion. Our folks just need some breathing space to
either stay alive or not allow them to close. If we can do those kinds of things in a fair and inclusive
fashion, then we're helping our entire community that is primarily made up of different types of small
businesses, as we all know, with different types of financial impacts for their family as well as for their
workers. I don't disagree with some of and all of the program we could talk about differently. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Thiel?
Council Member Thiel: Yes, Russell. First of all, thank you very much for taking emails and calls from
concerned businesses and residents about this. That just proves that Town staff is staying busy even
during a crisis and a pandemic. I really do appreciate that. You summed it up, but what are some of the
things that people have been asking for besides an extension? You said something about the third-
quarter tax relief. Could you please elaborate a little bit on that?
Russell Seymour: One of the things that we had talked about and looked at, was third-quarter
obviously—I’m sorry, third quarter was not impacted in essence as much, January, February, certainly
not as much as the fourth-quarter will be. If we are able to do something, whereas we are helping with
the discounts that we're seeing now on their payments, that includes the third-quarter, that's going to
mean more to those businesses as in the fact that when you look at the fourth quarter, their sales are
going to be considerably down. If we can do something now, that raises that amount that would, in
essence, be coming back to them. That's why looking at the third quarter, I believe is as important, if
not more, obviously, is more important than looking solely at the fourth quarter.
Council Member Thiel: As this unfolds and continues, I assume you'll be coming back to us each
month with some update and suggestions on how we can help these businesses that are struggling.
Russell Seymour: I would hope so. I think that's certainly our intention is to look at that. We are, as I
said, monitoring this pretty closely. The majority of the businesses have been coming up with the same
thing and none of them want something that is, in essence, a handout. They're just truly trying to find
something that's going to keep them operational.
Council Member Thiel: Got you. Then, I got a question for Jason, actually. With all these financial 5%,
10%, does that put any of our General Fund for 2021 in risk of future cuts that may need to happen?
Jason Cournoyer: There's an impact if the same number of businesses continue to pay on time, which
is about 70 to 75% currently, pay their meals tax on time because the 5% actually goes back to them.
It really is a line item for them. It's a line revenue item. If that continues, there's an impact of about 40
grand each quarter in lost revenue in order to do the 10%.
Council Member Thiel: Each quarter, you said?
Jason Cournoyer: Yes. It's $35K approximately for meals tax and $5K for TOT.
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Council Member Thiel: I do get what Council Member Campbell was suggesting that 10% may be too
much. In that 10% of the sales tax or the meals tax, we would actually be giving them back 5%.
Jason Cournoyer: Exactly. That's how it works now. It is an incentive to pay on time and it becomes,
like I said, a revenue line item for the business in a sense. If they pay on time, they get 5% of that money
back to them. In order to incentivize that continued practice of paying on time, that's the proposal is to
increase that incentive to 10% with the hopes that some will take advantage of that, that otherwise
wouldn't have, in order to get more revenue back to them.
Council Member Thiel: Got you. That's all. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Miss Fox?
Council Member Fox: Thanks. Most of my questions have been asked and answered, but I have two.
I wanted to follow up just a little bit on the suspension of the meals tax that Council Member Dunn
actually put out there. I understand that the meals tax is collected in trust. I totally understand that. For
the business side of it, I understand that part, but also Council Member Dunn made a very good point
that it might save a business down the road if more people would come out and it also would help those
who are struggling financially to come out and eat and that might save them some money to actually,
help out a business in Town.
That might be something we might want to look at just to vet the possibilities. If we suspended the meals
tax through the April 30th as Council Member Dunn suggested, what would be our shortfall at that point?
I'd like to know those numbers. Then, for Russell, I was listening to your explanations about what the
businesses feel like they need. During your conversation with us, you said that all they want us to do is
give the money back to them. I didn't understand that. That came out of your mouth. I wrote it down real
quick. You said they said all they want is to have us give them the money back. I couldn't get that
context.
Russell Seymour: If I said that, I'm not even sure what context I would put that in. My apologies.
Council Member Fox: I'm trying to figure that one out.
Russell Seymour: The biggest concern that businesses are having right now, is that stopgap measure,
so being able to find an opportunity to give them funds, or to assist them in their funding that would
allow them to close that gap until they can actually get into the State program.
Council Member Fox: You're talking about grants?
Russell Seymour: Well, what I'm talking about is something that would help them right now. Grants,
aside from that, even what's being put up here right now is helping them. By delaying their payment for
a 90-day period, especially if it's money that they already have, that does give them additional revenue
or funds to run on until hopefully, the State comes off with their programs. That money comes in, and
they're able then to move forward with that.
Council Member Fox: How would that affect us and our budget right now if we decided to do something
like that?
Kaj Dentler: If we did the 10%?
Council Member Fox: Yes.
Kaj Dentler: Well, Jason just said that it would be about $40K per quarter.
Council Member Fox: Per quarter?
Kaj Dentler: Right.
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Council Member Fox: All right. Between that piece of information and what I just asked, what would
be the impact of suspending the meals tax just until the 30th? You come back, what, at the next meeting
for that?
Kaj Dentler: Certainly, if that's the corporate direction of Council, we certainly can look at that. The one
thing I want to show you on this chart, a $40 meal in a restaurant, meals tax is $1.40. Now, I've made,
in my first full-time career, right out of college, less than $9K. I paid my rent and my student loans, there
wasn't much left. I understand $1.40 can be very, very important to a lot of people, but I also know
having lived through that, that $1.40 isn't going to make a hill of beans difference for most people.
Council Member Fox: If they went out just once, it wouldn't, but what if--
Kaj Dentler: How many times are you going to go out if you can't afford to go out? You're probably not
going to go out very often. The main point I want to make here is, you're going to start getting into that
philosophical debate, "Do you have a meals tax at all?" I do caution Council, if you suspend, waive that,
eventually, you're going to get more pushback from the community to eliminate that.
That meals tax is almost $6M to the Town. That's well over $0.06, $0.07, $0.08 on the tax rate. Unless
we're prepared to make up for that, I just caution on what you may be actually-- You may be creating
an unintentional problem for a minor, minor financial relief that you may provide. Worthy goal, I
understand it, but I don't think $1.40 is going to generate significant amount of more sales for the
restaurants that's going to make a difference to them to survive.
Council Member Fox: Probably not. I just saw that it could help both entities, that's all. Thanks.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: Yes, thank you. Well, I also want to commend the staff on the Herculean
job that they have taken upon themselves and handled. This is going to be very interesting. I think most
of the important questions have been asked and we may not get all the concrete answers that we're
looking for. I think the next 30 days are probably going to be very telling in creating a picture for us
where we're going to be at. I believe we should probably not be too hasty in trying to reshape our
financials right now until we know exactly where we're going to be.
I know it's a hard time for small businesses, ours included. It's going to be an interesting landscape in
the Downtown, in the Town-wide, the business community. I know a couple of businesses that have
already, unfortunately, had to shut their doors, but that's the nature of the situation that we're looking
at. It's going to affect not only retail but landlords and other types of businesses as well.
There are certainly some types of businesses that will survive this very well because they don't require
the one-to-one kinds of interactions with the public that other businesses do. Obviously, those
restaurants that are currently well situated for, say, carryout types of business are doing slightly better
than others. I'm not sure this is the time we want to encourage more public interaction. That seems to
be somewhat counter to some of the messages we're getting on a national level. There's going to be,
obviously, negative fallout that's going to be unavoidable.
I think we will see in the next 30 days, hopefully, a clearer picture of where we're going to be. At that
point, we'll be able to make some very concrete recommendations and take some solid steps in one
direction or another towards, hopefully, easing this situation. I thank the staff for all their work again,
and I guess we're going to see how this all shapes out. Thanks.
Mayor Burk: Vice Mayor Martinez?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Thank you. I also want to thank the staff and our-- Well, I just want to thank them
for all the work they're doing and trying to get this taken care of. The main question I have is, what other
options are on the table if we end up having to do it? I know right now is probably a good time to get
those answered. I think those are things that we on Council probably would like to know. What other
options can we have in the future if it gets much worse?
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I do want to thank staff for everything they're doing. Other than that, you guys pretty much answered all
the questions. I know I do agree with Ron on some of his comments about small businesses. We really
do want to communicate with them. Again, like I've said in the past, I understand the Council, they have
been struggling to keep the budget and keep the Town working, but we also have to always have a
concern for our residents and our small businesses in Town. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Okay. I have a couple of questions. First off, I do want to thank Council Member Fox. We
had a discussion at that last meeting about what are some things that need to come forward and initiated
the discussion. That was great that we're thinking of these things and it's important that we do so. I want
to thank Mr. Martinez. He went so far as to offer his salary for two months towards the effort. I think that
was very generous and very kind on his part. The Council has been thinking about this.
Most certainly, I call you on a regular basis telling you we need to be doing something. I'm glad that
we're at this point that we're having this discussion. There's a couple of things I need to say. First off, if
we were to suspend collecting the meals tax that would mean that those businesses would lose that
5% that they get from the meals tax. While we're thinking that we might be helping them, we actually
might be hurting them because they're not going to be getting that 5% that's a line item in their own
budgets.
Kaj Dentler: Going forward.
Mayor Burk: Right. If we waived it, if we said we're not going to take any meals tax--
Kaj Dentler: Whatever they have collected today, they're required to pay the Town that money. If you
suspend or waive and it start from that effective date, they would not be collecting. In this example,
whenever you started it, they would not collect that $1.40 on a $40 tab.
Mayor Burk: Right, but they wouldn't be getting the 5% back either.
Kaj Dentler: Well, if your fourth quarter didn't include it, correct. April is the first month of the final
quarter. Whatever sales have transacted they--
Mayor Burk: - they'll get it from that. For whatever we do--
Kaj Dentler: - they owe for that. But obviously it’s only been a few weeks, so very, very small amount.
You're correct. From once you started, they're not going to get 5% off of that money in that time period.
Mayor Burk: That they generally use themselves?
Kaj Dentler: Correct.
Mayor Burk: I have spoken to close to 300 businesses in Town. It's from the list that I have. I have to
commend the businesses. You know what? Mr. Seymour said about them being very clever and very
articulate on what they need. They really do. They're very creative and they're very optimistic. They are
truly optimistic. I'm calling to tell them how sorry I am. By the end of the conversation, they've lifted me
up.
We have some exceptional business people out there that really know what they're doing. The one
thing that they have talked about, a number of them have talked about the SBA loans and the stimulus
loans and how difficult they were. When I pointed out that we have the SBA office in Leesburg with a
team that's willing to walk them through it, all of them-- Not all of them. I shouldn't say that. The majority
of them didn't even realize that we have that in Town.
A number of them called me afterwards very grateful because that team, Eric Byrd and his team, have
done a fabulous job of helping them out and getting those papers done electronically and how they
need to do it. They're looking for those loans and those grants from the Federal government and from
the State to hold them over. They really believe that that's going to hold them over and they're going to
be able to make it.
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I was also on the Wexton call. It was interesting that SBA was one of the things that came up. Through
the NVRC, the regional commission, we are going to be speaking with Warner and Kaine this week.
The topic is that the next stimulus program will be to bring money to localities and to help support
localities. We want to make sure that they're including the towns when they talk about localities.
That's a very optimistic possibility that we could be getting some Federal funding to help with our
budgets to reimburse the issues that we're having. I want us to remember that there is some hope there
that we might be getting something. The General Assembly this year waived the County's requirement
that they have to take their meals tax request to a referenda. They can just simply do it and they are
looking at doing that.
Ironic that that would be something they're looking at now, but they are. They're looking at that. It might
be something that they want to do in the future. I think what we're offering now can help businesses.
The restaurants that I spoke to, the thing that they were asking for was a delay to be able to move the
date where they had to get it in if they had to. None of them asked to have it suspended.
None of them asked to not have to pay for it. They all realize that that's taken out. From my perspective
of talking to close to these 300 businesses, they're not looking for any handouts. They're looking for
help. When I mentioned to them what we were thinking about, all of them were very optimistic that that
would be helpful to them. This is not for us to make any decisions at this point. It's later in our agenda
that we will be--
Kaj Dentler: It’s on your agenda to consider for action tonight.
Mayor Burk: Okay. We have one more report from Renee LaFollette and Keith Markel.
Renee LaFollette: Primarily, it'd be me.
Mayor Burk: Primarily you. Do you need more time?
Renee LaFollette: I do not have a PowerPoint presentation, so no, I will not need more time. It's very
basic information. You had asked for an update on the trash contract. Right now in Leesburg, our trend
for trash collection for March is up approximately 20% as is recycling. It's not just a local trend. It's also
regional and national. I was on a conference call yesterday with the Northern Virginia Regional
Commission Waste Management Board.
Some localities reported as high as a 40% increase in their solid waste. People doing spring cleaning.
Town staff has been working with Patriot, our trash collector, on a contingency plan. We've got about a
nine-step contingency plan laid out with Patriot. The first step we've taken, which is the bulk collection
suspension that was enacted on March 23rd. Other jurisdictions within the region have also suspended
bulk collection.
Our second step was to reduce the amount of days that we collected Downtown. Our Downtown
businesses typically had trash collection six days a week, Monday through Saturday, and recycling
Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. We have now reduced their trash collection to Tuesday, Thursday,
Saturday to match their recycling days. We are seeing that their trash collection has dropped by almost
50% in the business district Downtown.
Yard waste right now, Patriot is not planning on making any changes to the yard waste collection for
the Town of Leesburg. We are staying on our Monday collection day with our limit of 10 bags or cans.
Now, if Patriot starts to see a reduction in their staff, currently, they have five staff that are out either
because of contact with somebody that has been diagnosed with the virus or is suspected to have the
virus, they're quarantined.
The first two are due to come back to work next week and the other one still have another week of
quarantine. If they lose another three to five staff, we will be looking at doing some sort of reduction for
yard waste. We have to protect their staff. Our critical element of this contract, obviously, is the trash.
That's where the disease and everything spreads and vermin and all that kind of thing.
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Our contingency plan with Patriot is specifically geared to protecting their staff. Right now, we're not
looking at suspending any of our yard waste collection. Loudoun County has restricted to a three-bag
limit on their yard waste, but we're good for right now. Other than that, that's my update as far as where
we are with our trash collection so I can take questions.
Mayor Burk: All right. Ms. Fox?
Council Member Fox: Real quick question. With pretty much the edict to stay home, everybody must
stay home. More trash is going to be generated, so on and so forth. Is there any relief from the State?
Can we ask for it? Is there anything there? Any sort of budget for it?
Renee LaFollette: At this point, the answer to that question is no. The trash hauling industry is, by its
nature, understaffed. It's an understaffed industry. If our hauler, which is a smaller hauler, they only
have roughly 80 staff. You go to an American Republican Waste Management, all of them if they start
losing staff, we have the same issues. If the processing facilities, the landfills or the recycling facilities
start losing staff, they're going to close those resources. There are facilities on the West Coast that
have been closed and have created a major impact in the stream of waste.
It's one of the things that we talked about on the call yesterday is, what happens if we start seeing that
reduction? There are some ordinances that are County ordinances, there are some State laws that
require the dual-stream of the trash and the recycling not commingling the trucks. We were asking--the
smaller jurisdictions were asking on that call yesterday, what is the trigger for allowing us to commingle?
Say we lose 50% of Patriot staff, we're going to have very serious discussions on, do we suspend
recycling? Well, if we suspend recycling, people aren't going to hold it.
They're going to put it in the trash stream. When are you going to relax that ordinance and allow us to
have a commingled load go to the landfill? No answer. It's the County's ordinance, have to have it
separate. Those are the kinds of conversations that we are having behind the scenes trying to find what
is that trigger point. We've reached out to the EQ and have received no good answer from them either
on what the State is going to do to alleviate any of these issues at this point in time.
Council Member Fox: I see that as an issue because you have a mandate. Again, you do this, but
sorry, on the other end. I think, as a Town, we probably should step up and open our mouths about it.
Renee LaFollette: That's why I work with the Waste Management Board to have that call yesterday
with the region and Loudoun County did have two representatives on that phone call. Prince William
County has already relaxed some of their rules associated with their landfill as has Fairfax.
Council Member Fox: Is there anything that you need from Council to further that effort?
Renee LaFollette: It's really asking the questions to the Board of Supervisors what is going to be that
trigger to begin to relax the ordinances that the County has. Once we get to that point, it's too late. We
need to be planning for that now, which is why we have our nine-step contingency plan with Patriot.
Council Member Fox: Okay. All right. Thanks.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Thiel?
Council Member Thiel: One quick question. Thanks for doing all that hard work and all that garbage
talk. Are we still continuing to do six days a week even though with the current situation going on? Six
days of pickup in Downtown?
Renee LaFollette: Six days in downtown? No. We restricted that starting March 30th to three days.
The Downtown commercial district gets trash collected Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, which is the
same day as their recycling.
Council Member Thiel: Okay. Has there been any need to drop that any further? Have we seen lower
since--
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Renee LaFollette: To this point, Patriot has not reported that we should drop that below three days at
this time
Council Member Thiel: Okay. Is there any other areas where they have indicated that we may need
to cut back due just to lack of pickup?
Renee LaFollette: Not due to a lack of pickup. Right now, our struggle is the amount of trash that is at
curbside. Where the message that we put out last week via press release was requesting people to
help our haulers by not setting bags outside their Toters, only put out what fit in the Toters and to
postpone their spring cleaning so they're not putting so much out to the curb to protect those workers
that are the ones collecting for us. You would be surprised at the emails that our staff received very
negative to that message that we weren't mandating, we were just requesting people to help the haulers.
I was quite surprised with how nasty the messages were that came from residents because we were
asking them to help.
Council Member Thiel: Have we considered potentially contracting out for additional support if needed
and if it comes to that?
Renee LaFollette: That is one of the steps in our contingency plan. We do have a couple of contractors
that have offered to help if we get to that situation.
Council Member Thiel: Okay. All right. Thank you very much.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Yes, thank you. Thank you, Renee. I know it's not an easy opportunity to
try to take a look at all of the services that we want to continue to have and yet, how do you manage it
without a date? I'm wondering what the trigger is for reduction on services. The fact that five more of
their employees could go out, again, because many of us ride around particularly tonight and earlier
today. I may not have a trash bag on the side, but I certainly stuffed and overstuffed that one trash
container to where the lid obviously can't even begin to be closed.
I think the easier message is, how do we manage more with less? As we all know, people's behaviors
can't be mandated. Yet while you requested, and everything was nicely worded, more people are home.
More people are doing their projects. More people are taking the time to do things that they've ignored
in the past and then they want it out of their sight. Beyond if we get into a situation, we're not going to
have less trash if we have five people on our trash service that wants to reduce service. I'm just
wondering what the trigger is if we really do need consultants or additional labor.
That's all extra money. You already said Patriot is not giving us back any money. That becomes another
affordability factor. As we look at it, maybe it's also for the Town Manager, what's our priority of level of
services to our community as we begin to think about-- You don't have to answer tonight. If we think
about cuts and reductions and programs and services, is trash our number one service to maintain for
our community? I think that's some of the things that we're going to have to talk about sooner or later.
I know you and your staff are, Mr. Manager. Renee, I know you and your team are as well. I think by
May 1st, again, as you said, just waiting because it's too late. It may cause us to want to have special
meetings or more frequency of some type of communication so we can get ahead of the curve because
there's going to be a trigger as this continues to go on. We just have to be sure for ourselves what that
trigger is. Again, thank you for all of your work. I appreciate it.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Thank you. Renee, I have worked with you on several projects, things that have
gone in the Town. I really appreciate the work that you're doing and everything that is going on. I do
notice in my neighborhood an abundance of Amazon boxes and other things like that and the recycle.
We are bored and looking for things to do. That's for sure. I have got really nothing to add to. It's already
been said other than I really do appreciate the work you're doing and anything if you need our help, I
know this Council is more than willing to do what we can to make your job go a little easier. Thank you.
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Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg, did I call you?
Council Member Steinberg: Hi, Renee. Thanks for your presentation and all the work. Something that
occurs to me and I don't know if this is a possibility or not or it's even something we can consider. What
would happen for Patriot-- In order to better utilize their staff, what would happen if we temporarily
suspended the recycling side of pickup and everything went to the landfill? Since a number of us visited
the recycling plant. I know a lot of items wind up in recycling but then have to be separated. They wind
up in landfill anyway, especially glass. I would hate to see this happen, but is that something that has
in any way been looked at as an option if we absolutely had to?
Renee LaFollette: I believe that's step six or seven. Our contingency plan is to suspend recycling
collection. Part of the reason that we started asking the question of Loudoun County about the dual-
stream is because we know by human nature, they're not going to hold the recycling. It will end up in
their trash container or will be set out as trash. By the County ordinance, Patriot is not to deliver a
commingled truck to the landfill.
They're not supposed to collect trash and recycling together. It's supposed to be separate streams.
We've asked the question. Your question gets directly to, what is the trigger of when they will relax that
ordinance to allow a commingled truck to their facility? To date, we do not have an answer to that
question.
Council Member Steinberg: Okay. All right. It's something that--
Renee LaFollette: It's something that we are thinking through with our contingency plan with Patriot,
yes.
Council Member Steinberg: Okay. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Dunn, did you speak to this?
Council Member Dunn: Thank you. Renee, who does the trash collection for the schools?
Renee LaFollette: Loudoun County Public Schools does their own collection.
Council Member Dunn: What are they doing these days?
Renee LaFollette: I have no idea.
Council Member Dunn: Maybe we should find out because I think there's a lot of opportunity there for
trash to be collected, which is no longer being collected. I can't imagine there's too much going on in
the trash collection department in Loudoun County Public Schools. I would think that would be a good
allocation proportionally by those communities who have schools in them that those resources be
allocated to those communities for trash collection, especially since there's a need out there that exists.
Having said that, there's only two services that the Town provides that every single person uses every
single day. Water and waste. It's the only two.
Sure, there's police out there, but we don't always see what their use, meaning I have not experienced
them on a day-to-day basis, but water and waste is every single day. Before I start looking at cutting
services that we have budgeted for, I would look at reallocating our resources and cut spending in other
areas if it is a dollar issue for Patriot. Real quick. If there is a dollar amount that we can provide to them
to bring on additional resources, I think that that's an angle that we should pursue.
Renee LaFollette: That's the problem. Waste collection is an understaffed industry across the nation.
Every hauler has vacancies that they cannot fill. Once they start losing staff, there aren't people that
are willing to backfill those positions to do the trash collection. The contingency plan that we have
worked out with Patriot is not a budgetary one. It is simply a number of people available to do the
collections from their staff. What they end up not collecting for us, for example, the bulk collection is not
being collected now.
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They are not billing us that weekly rate for what they're not collecting. If we ended up suspending yard
waste, they would not bill us for the weeks that they don't collect the yard waste. It's not a budgetary
concern for them. It's solely a staffing issue and American Republic Waste Management, all of the
haulers, have the same issues of trying to find people to fill the positions to drive the trucks, to be the
helpers on the back of the trucks.
Council Member Dunn: Well, we do have an unemployment issue out there right now. There are
people that may be willing to fill those positions. Additionally, I don't think we're going to pass on the
savings from Patriot while be it small because I think the bulk is what we end up paying for that as $16K,
$20K. It wasn't a lot that we decided--
Renee LaFollette: It's about $5.3K a month.
Council Member Dunn: Okay. That's not being given back to the public. I can tell you that the bulk of
those complaints you're getting from my son because he's not thrilled about having to shove all that
trash into all these trash cans. I did have one question about that. Is the catch-22 that to go on what
Neil was saying, if we were not doing recycling, would we be required to separate that which we are not
doing? In other words, you were saying that the catch is because we are recycling, we cannot combine
it on a truck. If we were not recycling and we only were collecting trash, thereby by default, it would be
a combined load. Is that where the catch is or is the ordinance requiring us to recycle?
Renee LaFollette: The ordinance is requiring that the hauler collect them as separate streams?
Council Member Dunn: Are we required by the County to recycle? I don't think we are.
Renee LaFollette: The Council has passed and I forget how long ago the resolution was as a target of
a 20% recycling rate for the Town, which is where the recycling comes from for the Town collecting
that. The ordinance that the County has, we have to follow because that is part of the contract with our
hauler who uses the landfill. We're in a catch-22 position that way where if we violate that without the
County relaxing their ordinance, we then run the risk of putting Patriot in a position that they are in
breach of their contract with the County to use the landfill.
Council Member Dunn: Again, if we were not recycling, we would not be required to have separate
bins because we wouldn't be recycling. Thereby, there wouldn't be a violation of the County rule of
commingled waste?
Renee LaFollette: Not 100% positive on that, but I think you're right.
Council Member Dunn: Okay. Maybe we can check into that. Again, if that is one of those operating
procedures that we need to pull off the shelf and plug in place, it's better to do it now than when we're
forced to do it at the last minute. I would encourage stronger discussions with Patriot about I, for one,
would rather be paying more to get the services that citizens need every single day rather than looking
at the possibility even of cutting more services because we already cut back on some.
That's where I would be if we can look at the possibility of paying more and I would strongly find out
what is going on with those trash collectors who, I guess, are still getting paid to not collect trash in the
school system. There's got to be quite a few of them out there in this County that may be able to assist
us with some of these other needs. All right. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Everyone's spoken, right? I'm getting confused here. All right. There's nothing at this point
that we can do. We just have to wait and see where this is going. I do know Fairfax has suspended their
bulk pickup and their lawn waste pickups. Is there a State requirement that there is a certain amount
that we have to recycle?
Renee LaFollette: State code has a 25% recycling target in State code.
Mayor Burk: We do have to recycle?
Renee LaFollette: We're supposed to be working towards that target.
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Mayor Burk: All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. That takes us to our Regional Commission
Reports. Anybody have a regional commission report at this point? I have two. The Northern Virginia
Regional Commission, we have been doing conference calls two times a week with all of the localities
in Northern Virginia. As I said before, we will be having a conference call with Senators Warner and
Kaine to talk about the stimulus, the next round, to make sure that the towns are part of it.
The one that has come out already, if you have a locality that has 500,000 or more, you will get the
money directly. That doesn't even include Loudoun County. Even at that point, we wanted to make the
point that any money that comes to the County, the Town should be included in that distribution. We're
trying to work on coming up with a spreadsheet of monies that should be reimbursed.
I would think maybe even the trash collection could be one of them that we might want to look at, but
we are working on that. My weekly phone call with Chair Randall, she shared with me that on Monday,
they lowered their flag. Just the County flag and it's in commemoration of all the people who have died.
While we were talking, I made the point that that would have been really nice if they'd let us know.
She invited me to participate, but I said it would have been nice to let the towns know so all of the towns
could have done it with them. She did invite us to do that also. I don't know if we're interested in doing
that, but they do it every Monday. They just lower the County flag to half-mast dawn to dusk. It's just
symbolic of remembering all the people who have passed away during this terrible time, so we might
want to think about doing that for future endeavor.
All right. That takes us then to the Petitioners Section. The petitioners is the first order of business that
we want to hear from the public. All members of the public are welcome to address the Council on any
item, matter or issue. If you wish to speak, we ask that you sign up at the podium. We also ask that you
would identify yourself and if comfortable doing so, give your address for the taped record.
Any public speaker will be requested to state their name and spell it for the purpose of closed captioning.
In the interest of fairness, we also ask that you observe the five-minute time limit. The green light in
front of you will turn yellow at the end of four minutes, indicating that you have one minute remaining.
At that time, we would appreciate you're summing up and yielding the floor when the bell indicates your
time has expired.
Under the rules of order adopted by this Council, the five-minute time limit applies to all. Do we have
anybody that's here to speak tonight in the petitioners section? We are still open for the public to come
in with social distancing in the audience. The fact that there is nobody here that wishes to speak, then
I will close the Petitioners Section at this point. That takes us to approval of the Consent Agenda. I will
read the items and then ask if anybody wants anything removed.
12. a. is the NVTA Funding Agreement to approve the standard agreement with the Northern Virginia
Transportation Authority for funding of Battlefield Parkway and Route 15 Bypass Interchange Project.
B is the authorizing the Town Manager to execute a license agreement between the Town of Leesburg
and Cellco Partnership for the small cell wireless communications facilities in the Town's right-of-way.
Three, a license agreement with the New Cingular Wireless PCS, LLC, authorizing the Town Manager
to execute a license agreement between the Town of Leesburg and New Cingular Wireless for small
cell wireless telecommunications facilities in the Town's right-of-way. D is approval for 2020 ArtsPARKs
Sculptures at Raflo Park. E is the Bus Shelters Town-wide project, authorizing an offer to acquire
permanent and temporary easement for the bus shelter Town-wide. F is the Supplemental Appropriation
for the Recreation Outreach to Community Kids, the R.O.C.K. Program. Is there any item that anybody
wishes to have removed? Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Dunn: E.
Mayor Burk: E. All right. Do I have a motion to accept A, B, C, D, and F? So moved by Council Member
Fox, seconded by Council Member Steinberg. All in favor?
Council Member Steinberg: Aye.
Council Member Dunn: Aye.
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Mayor Burk: Indicate by saying, "Aye." You already did that. Opposed?
Council Member Campbell: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez, are you an aye?
Vice Mayor Martinez: I am an aye.
Mayor Burk: All right. That is a 7-0. Mr. Dunn, you removed the bus shelter Town-wide project.
Council Member Dunn: I had one question on that. The verbiage of the ordinance or the resolution,
what is it called? What tab was that? That is tab seven. It's right here right in front of me. This is
authorizing staff to acquire the funds or execute a tape measure for lands as necessary, is that correct?
Mayor Burk: Who's is this?
Council Member Dunn: That's why I'm reading it. I just want to confirm that that's how I'm seeing it.
Renee LaFollette: It is authorizing the offer to acquire permanent or temporary easements necessary
for this bus shelter construction. If we would happen to go to eminent domain, that would be a second
action by Council.
Council Member Dunn: You're being given the authority to do that with this resolution?
Martin Crim: No.
Renee LaFollette: No. Not the eminent domain, just the acquisition without eminent domain. Eminent
domain requires a second Council action.
Council Member Dunn: Item number four. Because you've already addressed the funds, but then
item number four on that resolution says that you can take additional actions as may be necessary. If it
wasn't funding, what would those additional actions be if it also didn't include eminent domain?
Renee LaFollette: Keith, are you on the phone?
Mayor Burk: Who are you trying to get on the phone?
Renee LaFollette: Keith Wilson.
Mayor Burk: Keith Wilson?
Renee LaFollette: Is he on?
Council Member Dunn: I'll just vote against it since I don't have my answer. I was just concerned that
we are giving you the authority to go ahead by number four to take because I don't know what other
actions it would be other than financial and eminent domain. That would seem that the eminent domain
would be falling underneath that category. That's not mentioned directly an item four, but I'll just vote
no on it.
Renee LaFollette: I don't believe so.
Keith Wilson: I'm sorry. I was listening on the WebEx, so I couldn't get through. Madam Mayor, Council
members, Keith Wilson, Land Acquisition Manager.
Mayor Burk: Did you come from home?
Keith Wilson: No. I was upstairs.
Council Member Dunn: Just ran on over.
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Keith Wilson: I don't live that close, but here in Town.
Council Member Dunn: I guess my question was on item four, other than eminent domain, what
actions would that be?
Keith Wilson: It does require the language for the use of eminent domain. That triggers certain
requirements under State code that entitles the landowner, to certain benefits. We are required under
land acquisitions-- Excuse me, need to catch my breath. We're required under Uniform Act to acquire
properties and the State code by certain actions. This doesn't authorize the use at this time of eminent
domain, but it provides the landowners with certain protections.
Council Member Dunn: I won't ask any more questions. Thank you. Have a seat. I'm in the same
boat as you, man. Sit down. That's fine. Thanks for rushing in for that. Really, Keith, thank you.
Mayor Burk: Did that answer your question, Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Dunn: That's all my question, yes.
Mayor Burk: All right. Do I have a motion to accept the bus shelter authorization to offer?
Vice Mayor Martinez: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by-
Council Member Steinberg: Second.
Mayor Burk: - Mr. Martinez, seconded by Council Member Steinberg. Any additional questions at this
point? All in favor, indicate by saying, "Aye."
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?
Council Member Dunn: Nay.
Mayor Burk: That's 6-1. All right. That takes us to our resolutions and ordinances. The Dulles
Greenway, Proposed Toll Road Increases. This is a corporate position on the Town Council on the
proposed toll road increases for the Dulles Greenway. No.
Kaj Dentler: I think it won't take long to go to this one. This item before you is, in essence, to see if
Council wants to establish a corporate position on this particular issue. The Greenway, also known as
TRIP II, has made an application to the State Corporation Commission for a rate increase on the toll
road. They've made all the proper notices. The rate increases are what's before you. It's about a 6 to
6.8% increase, I think, each year. Current rate for off-peak period for two axles is $4.75. Peak is $5.80.
You see the progression through the next several years that has been proposed each year for two axle,
which are most of us drive in. There are additional increases associated with three, four, five, and six-
axle vehicles. I'm not going to go through for essence of time, but all number of axles are taxes or rates
are increased. The County government's Board of Supervisors has taken a corporate position in which
they strongly opposed the rate increase.
They asked for an extension to the fall and they asked to have the public hearings rescheduled, which
the State Corporation Commission granted by delaying their current proceedings. It basically provided
a nine-week extension period in all milestone marks that were previously identified. They canceled all
the local public hearings that were previously identified. That brings us to what's next steps. At this time,
the State Corporation Commission has a public hearing scheduled for August 13th.
Comments can be submitted after that all the way up to August 24. The question simply becomes, does
the Council have a corporate position on the rate increase that you wish to inject officially on the record?
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If you want to do that tonight or if you want to do that later if you have time, that's totally your prerogative,
but that is the essence if you want to be on record with a corporate position. I'm just going to take you
back to the two-axle increase to help you in case you have questions.
Mayor Burk: Anybody have any questions on this? Mr. Thiel?
Council Member Thiel: Yes. First, I would just like to state that I am adamantly opposed against this
increase. I think it's, literally, highway robbery and I will always be quoted as saying that I don't believe
that these increases are justifiable or necessary. I think they're ridiculous. With 80 to 90% of all Leesburg
residents working majority out east, it's ridiculous that this would even come forward. That's all I really
have to say is this, that I'm adamantly opposed against these increases.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Thiel, would you like to make a motion of some sort?
Council Member Thiel: I would if I was going to let other Council members speak if they had any--
Mayor Burk: They'll still get a chance to speak if you want to make a motion.
Council Member Thiel: Yes. I would like to make a motion that we form a letter to send-- Who's it have
to go to, Kaj? The letter?
Kaj Dentler: State Corporation. In your packet is a resolution that you can approve that can state your
position or you can do a letter or combination of both. Tell me what your position is and we can--
Council Member Thiel: Send a letter that we oppose the--
Kaj Dentler: I think your corporate position is probably going to be that you strongly oppose this rate
increase and you probably recommend no increase is probably what I think the majority of you will go.
If you want to keep it that specific, you can do that. We can incorporate that into the resolution and then
authorize the Mayor to do a cover letter that specifies your corporate position for now.
Council Member Thiel: Okay.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Thiel has made a motion.
Council Member Steinberg: Second.
Council Member Fox: Second.
Mayor Burk: It is seconded by Council Member Steinberg. Mr. Martinez, you wanted to say something?
Vice Mayor Martinez: I was going to second it.
Mayor Burk: Oh, I'm sorry.
Council Member Thiel: I got a second, third, and fourth.
Mayor Burk: I think it was unanimously seconded. Does anybody have any questions on this?
Council Member Dunn: Just one quick question. Is the State Corporation Commission the sole
authority for this?
Kaj Dentler: Yes, sir.
Council Member Dunn: There's no other Department of Transportation, the Governor, anybody that's-
-
Kaj Dentler: No. They will make the final decision.
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Council Member Dunn: Okay.
Kaj Dentler: The hearing examiner for the State Corporation Commission.
Council Member Dunn: Okay.
Mayor Burk: All right. No other additional questions. All indicate by saying, "Aye," if you agree.
Council Member Dunn: Aye.
Council Member Steinberg: Aye.
Vice Mayor Martinez: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?
Council Member Campbell: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? I didn't hear Mr. Campbell. Are you in favor?
Council Member Campbell: I said aye, yes.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Thank you. All right. Yes?
Eileen Boeing: I'm sorry, Madam Mayor. For clarity, it's adopting the resolution and the letter?
Mayor Burk: Well, he stated a letter.
Council Member Thiel: Yes, I stated a letter as well.
Kaj Dentler: Strongly opposed, recommend no increase at all.
Council Member Thiel: No increase.
Mayor Burk: Not the resolution?
Eileen Boeing: No, no resolution. That’s what I wanted to make sure.
Kaj Dentler: You authorized the Mayor to some cover letter stating your corporate position?
Council Member Thiel: Yes.
Mayor Burk: There's no resolution?
Martin Crim: There is a resolution.
Kaj Dentler: No, there is a resolution. In your resolution, you would approve that Council states its
corporate position as you strongly oppose the recommendation or the application. You recommend
there'd be no increase and you authorize the Mayor to send a cover letter stating your corporate
position.
Council Member Fox: May I ask a question? With this increase, will this keep coming back to us where
we keep writing a letter over and over to this effect or can we write a blanket letter or would that be not
as effective?
Kaj Dentler: You can continue to discuss it as you wish. I think once you're on the record, then that will
be sufficient.
Council Member Fox: Okay.
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Kaj Dentler: You won't need to do anything else. It doesn't mean you may still want to go to a public
hearing and speak for yourself or reiterate your corporate position, but that public hearing is in
Richmond in August at this point. I don't know if there'll be any local one at this point, but this will convey
your message for the record.
Council Member Fox: Okay. Thanks.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Thiel? Sorry. Okay. All right. That passed. That moves us to a motion to approve
World Ovarian Cancer Day. I move it. Is there a second?
Council Member Steinberg: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Council Member Steinberg. All in favor?
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? That's a 6-0-1. A motion to approve Better Hearing Month Proclamation. I'll
move that one. Is there--
Vice Mayor Martinez: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Vice Mayor Martinez. All in favor?
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed. That's 6-0-1. Did I get them all? B, C. Okay, D. D now takes us to our Business
Relief Proposal that was presented earlier. This is an ordinance Establishing Due Dates, Penalties, and
Interest for Meals Tax (Town Code, Chapter 20, Article V), and the Transient Occupancy Tax (Town
Code 20, Article VI) for the First and Second Quarters of the Calendar Year 2020 in Response to the
COVID-19 Emergency. Do I have a motion?
Council Member Steinberg: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Council Member Steinberg.
Vice Mayor Martinez: So moved.
Martin Crim: Madam Mayor, can I interrupt just a second?
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Martin Crim: This is to approve Tab 14 revised that you have before you, is that correct?
Mayor Burk: Correct.
Martin Crim: Okay.
Mayor Burk: All right. It's moved by Mr. Steinberg, seconded by Vice Mayor Martinez. Any additional
discussion on this?
Council Member Campbell: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Campbell? Mr. Campbell? Well, let's go to Mr. Dunn.
Council Member Campbell: Hello. Hello.
Mayor Burk: Yes?
Council Member Campbell: Can you hear me now?
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Mayor Burk: Yes, we can hear you now.
Council Member Campbell: There were two items that were discussed earlier. One was either acting
too soon in terms of absolutely trying to provide relief broader than what we propose here as just an
intermediate step. The second one, at least for me in my comments and I heard other people agree,
about not adding the additional 5% in terms of a 10% early discount, but leaving it as it is as 5% as the
early payment discount to be more equitable among a company. As proposed in the resolution, I would
only suggest that we change the 10% to 5% in all sections. I want to be clear in all sections where an
increase, section 1-- I believe in Section 1A, Section 1B, Section 2A, I believe that's all where the 10%
is mentioned in the resolution as it relates to the meal.
Mayor Burk: Council Member Steinberg, do you accept this as a friendly amendment?
Council Member Steinberg: Yes.
Mayor Burk: All right. Mr. Martinez, do you accept this as a friendly amendment?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Yes.
Mayor Burk: All right. Anything else, Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: That's it. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: All right. Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Dunn: Just so for clarification, so that was taking out the 10% reduction and making
it only a 5% reduction?
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Council Member Dunn: I would be more in favor of keeping it at the 10%. However, I am going to
make the request that we waive the meal tax for between now and June 30th only as a way for helping
businesses and consumers. Consumers paying a little bit less when they go out for a meal and maybe
energizing one or two more customers to go out to eat.
Mayor Burk: All right. Let's see if this is accepted as a friendly amendment. Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: I think I would have to see a more substantial analysis to understand how
effective--
Mayor Burk: Is it a yes or no?
Council Member Steinberg: No.
Mayor Burk: No? Okay.
Council Member Steinberg: Not immediately.
Mayor Burk: Did you want to make a motion?
Council Member Dunn: I'll make a motion. Hopefully, I can get a second for at least a little bit of
discussion, is I'll make a motion to remove the meals tax collection by the Town between now and
midnight on June 30th.
Council Member Thiel: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Mr. Thiel.
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Council Member Dunn: As I was saying, I think that this is more than just looking at as a few pennies
that the businesses don't have to collect and the 5% that they would get back from that collection money
which, by the way, on the example of a $40 ticket, that would be 7¢ per ticket. If they gained just one
customer coming in spending $40, $40 divided by 7¢ would have to equal 571 additional customers to
make up for their 5% huge whopping gain on a 3.5% tax that they're having to collect.
I think that the issue at hand is about getting people to go out and patron more businesses so that the
businesses can sell more and customers can save more by not having to pay this tax over the short
time. There's very little that we can do as a local town government as has been pointed out. We don't
have stimulus, we don't have tarps, we don't have all kinds of money that we can throw around to
people, but the little bit that we can, we should try to do in at least our small efforts to help folks out in
this trying time. I think it says volumes more about us and what we're trying to do than what little bit of
money we're trying to collect. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: [inaudible 02:32:28]
Mayor Burk: Mr. Thiel?
Council Member Thiel: Yes. I have one quick question for Kaj or Jason, whoever can answer this. If
we were to eliminate the meals tax even for a short-term while, what would the process be for not
collecting the remainder of what is currently being held by the restaurants?
Kaj Dentler: Well, we'll have to notify the restaurants and they'll have to change their business systems.
Most likely, it will cost them money because they've got to change and reconfigure how they collect an
account for that money. Right now, they already have a business system set up, or most of them do.
There'll be a cost to them. I don't know what that cost will be.
I don't know how sophisticated their system is, but we will notify them. They'll have to make those
adjustments. They'll have to pay whatever percentage for those that they've already collected here from
April forward. Obviously, they already owe from January through March and then they owe for a few
weeks here in April. I guess I would defer to the Town Attorney. I guess it would be 12:01 AM tomorrow
morning. Would that be an effective date?
Martin Crim: Yes. As you pointed out, it create problems that they're going to need time to do the
change in their business systems, their cash registers, and so on. From whatever date it is set for, they
would stop collecting that money. They would only remit what they have collected through the effective
date of the change where you're essentially setting the meals tax rate to 0% temporarily and then having
it returned to the current 3.5% on July 1st.
Council Member Thiel: Okay. Moving forward, just the collection off the receipts that you gave
examples of, the samples, it would just be zero and they would not collect anything?
Kaj Dentler: Correct. They cannot charge a meals tax if we have suspended it for a period of time.
There isn't new money to the business and Mr. Dunn has stated that. The only benefit would be if you
believe that that's going to draw customer sales, it's your decision to make. You've already heard my
opinion on that, but it's your decision to make.
Council Member Thiel: Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Anyone else have any questions on this?
Council Member Campbell: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: I'm not opposed to this as a tool. I just believe the timing is wrong. The
incentive to create new business is not now when most businesses are either reduced to drive through
or carry out and there's certainly no sit down. I think there's a community message about supporting
37
our businesses and just giving them what we can, but the real toolkit is going to have to be developed
after the shutdown is over, and how do we drive economic value as well as business back over a period
of time because it's not you do one thing and this is going to be beneficial to everybody. I don't think it’s
just the right time to think about implementing this particular tool. As already been stated, it will take
some time and it costs some money. No one's just going to, tomorrow, all of a sudden, start
implementing this when 50% of our businesses, it has no impact on whatsoever. I believe it's a tool, but
give it some more thought, but I just don't support it right now. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Anyone else who hasn't spoken? I would agree with Mr. Campbell. I don't think this is the
way forward. I think we've got to be careful with what we're doing and how we're doing it where we've
got some businesses that this doesn't impact. Obviously, this would just be the businesses that are
restaurants. I have to be honest with you. I don't know anybody that doesn't go out to dinner because
of the meals tax. That's not something I ever hear about. I just think this is the wrong time to do this
kind of thing, so I won't be supporting this.
Kaj Dentler: Madam Mayor, Council, it’s important for me to give you a quick fiscal impact projection
based on what we've already been using. I just asked Mr. Cournoyer, based on 50%, that two months
is $540K to the Town loss. Now, if projections are 25%, then do half. The amount of financial impact to
the Town to suspend the program for two months, even at 25%, is fair to say $200K to $250K minimum.
Again, it's your prerogative, but I need to make sure you know what, that there's a fiscal impact to you,
to the Town as well and you make that decision.
Mayor Burk: All right. We have a motion on the table from Mr. Dunn that was seconded by Council
Member Thiel to remove the meals tax till July 1st. Was that the date, July 1st?
Council Member Dunn: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Till July 1st. All right. All in favor, indicate by saying, "Aye."
Council Member Fox: Aye.
Council Member Dunn: Aye
Mayor Burk: That's Ms. Fox and Mr. Dunn. Opposed?
Council Member Steinberg: Nay.
Council Member Campbell: Nay.
Council Member Thiel: Nay.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Thiel. Mr. Martinez, how did you vote?
Vice Mayor Martinez: I voted nay.
Mayor Burk: And Ms. Burk. That motion doesn't pass. That takes us to the original motion with the
removal of the 10%, moving it down to 5%. That was moved by Council Member Steinberg, seconded
by Mr. Martinez. All in favor of that, please indicate by saying, "Aye."
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: That was Mr. Martinez, Mr. Campbell, Ms. Fox, Mr. Thiel, Mr. Steinberg. Opposed?
Council Member Dunn: Quick question. Is this a general motion? This is the final motion?
Mayor Burk: Right, the 10%.
Council Member Dunn: I don't think so.
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Mayor Burk: We're taking the 10%. We're taking the 10% off and substituting back to 5%. Opposed?
Council Member Dunn: Pull inquiry. I thought that this was an amendment to the original motion and
that the original motion is still on.
Mayor Burk: No. It was a friendly amendment that he accepted, so it's part of the motion
Council Member Dunn: It's part of the regular motion?
Mayor Burk: Right. So opposed?
Council Member Dunn: Abstain.
Mayor Burk: Abstain. Okay. I will be opposed to this one at this point just because of the 10%.
Council Member Dunn: You could have divided the question, I guess.
Mayor Burk: All right. That takes us to our next item, which we have a bit of a quandary and a slight
dilemma here, Mr.--
Martin Crim: My understanding, Mayor, was that was a vote on both of the ordinance and the resolution
that was the both of those together. Is that what everybody understood the action to be?
Mayor Burk: Correct.
Martin Crim: Yes. Both.
Mayor Burk: All right.
Jason Cournoyer: I think the substitute motion was for 5%?
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Martin Crim: Just to be clear, as I understood it, the notes that I made here were that in section 1A,
1B, 2A, and 2B where the little Roman numeral two appears for each one of those, which is that, "For
payment made on or before April 20th, 2020, the early payment discount set forth in this code section
shall be increased to 10%," that is just struck from what you all just approved. That was my
understanding of your intent.
Mayor Burk: Correct. Because it goes back to the five. Five is originally there.
Martin Crim: It jumps from Roman numeral one to Roman numeral three, but that's fine. We'll just show
that as omitted language.
Mayor Burk: All right. Now, to get back to Mr. Dunn's 13. e, which was to reconsider the motion. What's
the word I'm looking for?
Martin Crim: The continuity of government.
Mayor Burk: Thank you. Continuity of government motion. It says that the motion to reconsider can
only be made by a Council member who voted on the prevailing side and the notes here say that you
were not at the meeting.
Council Member Dunn: That I wasn't at the meeting.
Mayor Burk: It says that you were absent at the meeting.
Council Member Dunn: I was definitely at the meeting.
39
Mayor Burk: The minutes that we have here, that's what caught my attention. The minutes say that
you were not at that meeting.
Council Member Dunn: I think that's incorrect. This was done at a special meeting, correct?
Mayor Burk: March. Right. It says Mr. Dunn and Mr. Thiel were absent.
Council Member Campbell: April 3rd.
Mayor Burk: I'm sorry, Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Mr. Dunn was present at this special meeting on April 3rd.
Council Member Dunn: I think I was there.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Well, we'll have to look into it. If you were there, then we'll let it continue on.
Council Member Dunn: Well, Mr. Campbell, if you want to make the motion to reconsider so that there
is no controversy, that's fine.
Council Member Campbell: Again, just point of order then, do you have to withdraw your motion first?
Council Member Dunn: I'll withdraw my motion to reconsider. I'm pretty sure I was at the meeting and
I'm pretty sure I voted for the measure. Mr. Campbell, why don't you go ahead and do it just to clean it
up.
Council Member Campbell: I'll make a motion to consider the ordinance we passed on April 3rd for
ensuring the continuity of government.
Mayor Burk: All right. That's Mr. Campbell, seconded by Ms. Fox. Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Again, as I stated earlier, I believe section D3, and while there's been
conversation made about the ability to act quickly in some way. Again, reviewing the videotapes of the
last meeting, we talked about the ability to call special meetings. That would preclude just someone
acting independently of Council. We talked about the need for strong Council consultation, particularly
as related to electronic meetings.
Mr. Crim, you can tell me if I'm wrong. Calling the electronic meeting also talks about the value and
importance of the agenda that we create for those meetings. I don't believe that that's a singular
authority to recreate an agenda that we really do have to look at how we do it. If it takes a meeting to
have a meeting to talk about that or to talk about the authority to have it and why, there isn't a rush to
having that agenda created where we as a Council cannot be involved.
Well, I want to clean up the language, particularly just simply saying at the beginning in D3, right now,
it says, again, any regular scheduled meeting and then it goes into A. It says "the Mayor" and I would
replace that with, "By majority vote of the Council for in a case of subordinate body, the Chair
determines." It's not a singular person because the agenda is what is important, as we talked about
legally, to make sure that we get it right so that we're not necessarily challenged in a court. Mr. Crim,
am I correct on that?
Martin Crim: You said a lot of things. I'm not sure I understood all of that. The gist of it as I understand
it is that you want to only allow fully-electronic meetings in the case where a Council has previously
voted to authorize that specific, regularly-scheduled, special or emergency meeting or for Council or
the public body for your subordinate bodies has actually voted in a physically gathered meeting to
authorize a future meeting to be held fully electronically. Is that the gist of it?
Council Member Campbell: Well, the last piece, yes. You got the first part right. You have three
conditions and the last condition is the agenda. At our last discussion, we talked about the agenda
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being a critical component of why we're having that special meeting. I was looking for feedback on that
particular point.
Martin Crim: I sent you all an email earlier this afternoon with regard to the legal analysis that I won't
get into in the public sphere on that. Essentially, we're looking at following the Attorney General's
opinion with regard to fully-electronic meetings where we're either addressing the essential functions of
the Town or otherwise addressing the emergency. The agenda would need to have that borne in mind.
The process, as I envision it, is that if we were looking at having a meeting turned into a fully-electronic
meeting, the Town Attorney's Office would consult with the Mayor or the Chair of the body to see what
agenda items are on there, see how well it fits into the Attorney General's opinion about what kinds of
things are permissible for a fully-electronic meeting, advise you on that, then you would make a
judgment call as to what's going to be on that agenda and how we would proceed. There's more to it
than is just on the paper here and the continuity of government ordinance. There's going to need to be
an interactive process.
Council Member Campbell: That's exactly my point that I would hope that would also be in consultation
with us as a Council and not left to an individual to decide the appropriate agenda regardless of the
consultation with you as a legal authority that we do it as a body. That's why I wanted to go back and
make sure that we fully vetted this particular piece. We looked at these particular issues and if Council
agrees that they don't want to be involved in this, that's fair. I believe it is our responsibility to have a
special type of meeting where no physical quorum is present to have our involvement as a Council and
how that happens.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Crim, do you see this as an emergency meeting? Would we have a remote meeting
if it wasn't an emergency?
Martin Crim: You might have a regularly-scheduled meeting that you wanted to have as a fully-
electronic meeting remotely.
Mayor Burk: It would have to stay within the operations of the-
Martin Crim: - Attorney General's opinion, yes.
Mayor Burk: Right.
Martin Crim: You'd be doing an analysis based on facts on the ground. What is the current situation?
What is the medical situation? What are we getting instructions from the Governor about? Right now,
the Governor's executive orders say that the operation of government is not limited by executive orders
53 and 55. That might change. That would affect the analysis. What's on the agenda might affect the
analysis. How critical is it that we act on that? Is there a need for a decision immediately? Those kinds
of decisions will have to be done on a case-by-case basis for both regular meetings and special
meetings.
Council Member Campbell: To that point, I think it's critical that we as a Council be advised as a
group, not individually.
Martin Crim: If that's the case, Mr. Campbell, could I suggest that we import some language similar to
what we did in D-2, which were the phrases, "in consultation with other members of the body if possible"
and insert that language into D-3(a), where it reads "the Mayor" or in the case of a subordinate body,
"the Chair," insert the words, "in consultation with the other members of the body if possible," and then
continue with the existing language, "determines that it is impractical or unsafe," and so on. Would that
satisfy the issue, sir?
Council Member Campbell: If possible because it bothers me because it's a different situation from a
cancellation of a meeting and the fully-electronic meeting without a physical quorum present. I think it's
a different condition. It's not if it's possible, it has to be possible.
Martin Crim: Well, sir, I think what is intended by that is that we don't know if people are going to be
available. Depending on what the circumstances are, you might try to get ahold of somebody by phone
41
and you can't reach them, you can't text them, you can't email them. For reasons that might be known
or unknown, it might not be possible to contact all members. I think what I would suggest is that there's
an expectation that the Mayor or the Chair would attempt to contact each member of the Council. We
can certainly say by email in advance if you like.
Council Member Campbell: We have two tools still available to us. One, we could cancel the meeting
and the second is, again, you could have time and space for a special meeting. What would trigger a
fully-electronic meeting without a physical quorum present other than an emergency of which you can
still have a special meeting to handle the emergency? I hear what you're saying. I'm not disagreeing.
I'm just saying we have other tools available to step back for a second to consider the agenda and what
it is that we need to do without a physical quorum present. Not that we can't have a special meeting or
cancel a regular meeting. We have those tools unless I'm wrong.
Martin Crim: You're right. You have lots of other tools. I'm just not understanding what amendment to
D3A would satisfy your concerns.
Council Member Campbell: The Council needs to be considered in the consultation process of having
this type of special electronic meeting where the agenda has to be reviewed for content to meet
whatever types of legal requirements so we don't put ourselves at greater risk.
Martin Crim: I'm sorry to interrupt, but is the objection to the words "if possible"? If we struck that and
just said "in consultation with the other members of the body" and inserted that after "the Chair" in D-
3(a), would that be satisfactory?
Council Member Campbell: It's better. It's certainly better. Again, the definition of consultation versus
a Council action, again, I'm not going to quibble over it. I wanted Council to hear. I believe that there's
a valid point here. I believe that you've offered a valid suggestion to get us to a different point than
wherever we are today. Consultation is better than no consultation. This is very unique as you will agree,
I think, Attorney General, this is a very unique situation of having an electronic meeting without a
physical quorum present.
Martin Crim: Absolutely.
Council Member Campbell: I'm just trying to treat it with the respect that it deserves for us as a body.
If the best that Council will vote on is the same language, not as possible in D-2, then I'm amenable to
that language.
Martin Crim: Okay, so again--
Mayor Burk: May I ask, Mr. Crim? What happens if a Council member is unavailable, so then the
meeting could not be held?
Martin Crim: If we add this language "in consultation with the other members of the body," consultation
doesn't mean that they respond to your email. You just send them an email saying, "This is what I'm
proposing to do." The method of consultation is not specified. I assume everybody has an email
address. Reasonable notice under the circumstances to say, "I'm thinking about changing this agenda
to fully-electronic because of X, Y, and Z. Is everybody on board with this?" Give them a reasonable
period of time to respond. That's consultation.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Dunn, are you--
Council Member Campbell: I just have to add one thing. We had to do this, I believe, last year with
the Town Manager. See the text ad or email because everybody's not always on their email, but text is
also a more rapid way of getting me to my email and that's been effective. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: All right. Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Dunn: Thank you. Ron, in looking at this, and Town Attorney and the rest of Council,
I think if you look at the ordinance, how it is, we're not required to call anything special. There is no
requirement in here that I'm reading, unless somebody can point it out to me, in D-3 where it says
42
"electronic meetings." There's nothing in here that says that it is with consultation by Council or that the
Mayor has to call the meeting.
In fact, the only thing I could think of in all the emails with the Town Attorney and what has been
discussed at our last meeting is that maybe the verbiage should be added that simply states that we
provide a notice to the public that a remote participation meeting is taking place by Town Council. As
far as I can see in the ordinance, there's nothing in here that says that for canceling a meeting, there
is, but for having the meeting. I think our goal should be with this is in an emergency situation that we're
in that if we feel that 100% remote participation meetings are needed, then the only requirement that
we should have to make is when we make our meeting announcement that we've informed the public
and we already make the meeting announcements anyway. That's what's missing from here. There's
nothing in here that says that the Mayor has to call for a special meeting of a regular meeting.
However, it does state that under a special meeting or an emergency meeting, which do have other
announcement requirements because they always do, whether we're in an emergency situation or not,
they do have additional requirements for informing Council. I don't think that we need to inform Council
of anything provided that we're saying that 100% remote participation in the meeting will be taking place
at our next meeting and announce that to the public. I would say that that's the only verbiage that we
should add in here is that the public should be informed of 100% remote meeting participation.
Mayor Burk: Are you asking for this to be a friendly amendment?
Council Member Dunn: Sure.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Dunn: Again, not to take away from what Ron is trying to accomplish, but I think
we're adding a step in there about the Mayor having to do something in consultation with Council that
we’re putting another requirement on herself that we don't need. At least that's how I'm seeing it unless
Town Attorney or anyone else in Council can say otherwise to me.
Mayor Burk: All right.
Council Member Campbell: I definitely can say otherwise.
Mayor Burk: Well, is this a yes or no? Do you take it as a friendly amendment?
Council Member Campbell: Well, no, it's not a friendly amendment.
Mayor Burk: All right. Do you want, Mr. Dunn, to make it a motion?
Council Member Dunn: I'll make a motion that, to D-3, we just add the wording that meeting
announcement is provided and given to the public that the Council or other subordinate bodies will be
meeting electronically.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Crim, do you have a problem with that?
Martin Crim: No. I think I didn't catch all the wording. Basically, it is we're going to give meeting
announcements to the public that it's going to be held electronically, that's perfectly fine. I was just
looking back in the statute to see if that was already in the statute. It is, so that's fine. That's perfectly
reasonable.
Mayor Burk: All right, so the--
Council Member Dunn: I don't know who is the second. Do you need a second on that?
Mayor Burk: Mr. Dunn made a motion. Is there a second?
Council Member Thiel: Second.
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Mayor Burk: Council Member Thiel. Any more discussion on it?
Council Member Dunn: No.
Council Member Campbell: Yes. I'm sorry, Mr. Dunn, but I only wanted to clarify the point where I
think you misunderstood. Only one person right now has the authority. This ensuring the continuity of
government ordinance actually puts in place powers that if enacted in a certain situation, we've pretty
given the authority for certain things to be done. Having an emergency meeting--
Council Member Dunn: Can I ask him real quick?
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Council Member Dunn: Mr. Campbell, could you clarify and point out where you're seeing that the
Mayor and/or with consultation with anybody is required to call an electronic meeting? I'm just not seeing
it in the ordinance.
Council Member Campbell: No one is required to do anything in this ordinance. It creates the
conditions under which certain things can be done if necessary. It's not about a requirement. We're
looking ahead and saying, "For continuity of government, what provisions do we need to have in place
for certain things to happen under certain circumstances?" There are no requirements. This particular
section, D-3, does give the Mayor the power and only the Mayor the power to have this type of electronic
meeting without a physical quorum as well as to review the agenda. It already has provisions to give
notice under all the FOIA provisions to the public already in this ordinance.
Mayor Burk: All right. We have a motion by Mr. Dunn. Is there any additional questions at this point?
It is to add meeting notice to be given to the public if an electronic meeting is called. Is that--
Council Member Dunn: Yes, close enough.
Mayor Burk: All right. All in favor, indicate by saying, "Aye."
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: That's Mr. Thiel. Ms. Fox, Mr. Steinberg, Mr. Martinez?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez, Mr. Dunn, Ms. Burk. Opposed?
Council Member Steinberg: Nay.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg. Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Nay.
Mayor Burk: All right. That passes, but that takes us to the--
Council Member Dunn: I just think I have a couple of seconds on my time. The other thing that I would
like to have considered added to the reconsideration of this is that if we do call or if a 100% participation
meeting is called that 100% of the body should participate remotely.
Mayor Burk: Does Mr. Campbell see that as a friendly amendment?
Council Member Campbell: No.
Mayor Burk: All right. Do you want to make a motion?
Council Member Dunn: I'll make a motion to that effect.
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Mayor Burk: Mr. Dunn is making a motion that a remote meeting would require everyone to stay home.
I will tell you. I will be opposed to that. I think if you need to stay home, that's an important element that
you should have. If you don't want to, you shouldn't have to. Anybody else have anything they want to-
- Is there a second?
Vice Mayor Martinez: I would like to ask a question about that motion. When you say everybody has
to participate, what if the reasons for this is that some people can't?
Mayor Burk: No he’s saying, Mr. Martinez, that if a remote meeting is called, no one will show up at
Town Hall. Not everybody has to do it remotely, whether that--
Vice Mayor Martinez: If that's the meaning, I agree with you. I don't know if I could go along with that.
I thought he was saying that everybody has to participate in the remote meeting. Anyway, thank you.
Mayor Burk: Is there a second? I still don't have a second for this. Council Member Fox?
Council Member Dunn: No other comments.
Mayor Burk: Pardon me?
Council Member Dunn: I was just going to say I have no other comments other than if it's important
enough to stay away, then we all should do so.
Mayor Burk: All right. The motion that a remote meeting is 100% meeting. All in favor, indicate by
saying, "Aye."
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Thiel, Mr. Dunn, Ms. Fox. Opposed?
Council Member Steinberg: Nay.
Council Member Campbell: Nay.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg, Mr. Campbell, Ms. Burk. Mr. Martinez?
Vice Mayor Martinez: I was an aye.
Mayor Burk: Well, I can tell you right now. I'm going to show up. I'm not running a meeting from a
remote situation.
Council Member Dunn: Well, we just passed it. Otherwise, you'll have to reconsider that.
Mayor Burk: I will be here.
Council Member Dunn: Anyway, I guess we can discuss that more at another time.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez, you're an aye that you want to have remote meetings?
Vice Mayor Martinez: No. I would like to reconsider my vote.
Council Member Dunn: Of course.
Vice Mayor Martinez: I was under the impression that that motion hadn't got a second. I vote nay.
Council Member Dunn: Well, of course. The other thing that I'd like to add to this reconsideration is
allowing for under the circumstances of the current resolution and the circumstances, which it is given
that additions to meetings can be added at that meeting or if you'd rather that allow for the suspension
45
of the rules be by a simple majority, provided that the item being addressed is specifically related to the
emergency at hand.
Because right now, to add things to the meeting is very difficult since we're not meeting often. I'll make
it simple. Allow for a suspension of the rules by a simple majority only in this resolution and that the
item to be addressed must be specifically emergency-related.
That would be for adding things to the agenda, not for suspending the rules and approving a rezoning,
for example.
Mayor Burk: He is making a motion to allow for suspension of the rules by a simple majority to add
things to the agenda of the remote meeting.
Martin Crim: That's the motion.
Council Member Dunn: Specifically to address something related to the emergency at hand.
Martin Crim: That's the motion. Is there a second?
Mayor Burk: Is there a second? Yes.
Council Member Campbell: Second.
Mayor Burk: Council Member Campbell. Is this a doable?
Martin Crim: Yes, certainly. What effectively does is it modifies your procedural rules, which currently
require that at a meeting that you have unanimous consent to add something to the agenda. This would
allow by majority vote adding something related to the emergency to the meeting agenda for fully-
electronic meeting.
Mayor Burk: Okay. It has to be related to the emergency?
Council Member Dunn: Right.
Mayor Burk: All right. This is a motion by Mr. Dunn. Is this a friendly amendment, Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Definitely, yes.
Council Member Dunn: He has seconded it.
Mayor Burk: I know, but I wanted on the record. All right. Any additional discussion, Mr. Thiel?
Council Member Steinberg: I have a question.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Thiel? Did you have a question, Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: Regardless of how this particular motion goes, we still have to vote on
the original motion, correct?
Mayor Burk: Correct.
Council Member Steinberg: All right.
Mayor Burk: All right. This being a friendly amendment, we don't have to vote on this.
Martin Crim: Well, that's not what you just said to Mr. Steinberg.
Mayor Burk: I know. I'm correcting myself.
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Interim Town Attorney Crim: Are we treating this as a motion that has to be voted on separately and
then we'll vote on the main motion? Are we treating this as a friendly amendment, meaning that it doesn't
have to be voted on and what you will be voting on in terms of the final motion includes that provision?
Mayor Burk: Well, Mr. Campbell accepted it as a friendly amendment, so then that takes us to our
original motion and I have no idea where my notes are on the original motion.
Martin Crim: That would be to amend the continuity of government ordinance to add the words "in
consultation with the other members of the body" in D-3(a) after the words "the Chair," comma.
Mayor Burk: Okay. That's correct.
Martin Crim: And then to add that meeting announcements will be given to the public of all electronic
meetings, that one passed. That would be added perhaps as D-3, C-4, where we're talking about the
agenda. That'd be a logical place to put it in that as-
Mayor Burk: This last one would be--
Martin Crim: The last one would be-- Let's make that an H, D-3(h) if we could, to the effect that additions
to the agenda, may be by suspension of the rules by simple majority vote if the item is related to the
emergency.
Mayor Burk: All right. Everybody understand that?
Council Member Dunn: I do have a question. The first item that was brought up, is that in here or not?
Mayor Burk: The first item about the--
Council Member Dunn: Having to require-
Martin Crim: - consultation.
Mayor Burk: Consultation?
Council Member Dunn: Say it again.
Martin Crim: Consultation.
Council Member Dunn: Right. Is that in here?
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Council Member Dunn: Where is it at if it is?
Martin Crim: I just added that. That's what I was just saying. It would be added to D-3(a).
Mayor Burk: Mr. Campbell wants it added, so it would be added to D-3.
Martin Crim: That was the original motion that Mr. Campbell made.
Council Member Dunn: The D-3(a) is going to say what?
Martin Crim: "The Mayor or in the case of the subordinate body, the Chair, in consultation with the
other members of the body, determines that it is impractical or unsafe to assemble a quorum in a single
location due to the catastrophic nature of the disaster."
Council Member Dunn: What was the last sentence?
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Interim Town Attorney Crim: "The catastrophic nature of the disaster." We've inserted the words "in
consultation with the other members of the body" and an extra comma there after the words "the Chair."
Mayor Burk: All right.
Council Member Dunn: But--
Mayor Burk: What's your issue, Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Dunn: Point of order. The problem with that is that verbiage in A is directly what is
directed by us from Richmond. That's the basis under which we can have electronic meeting.
Mayor Burk: Wait a minute.
Council Member Dunn: Now, you're adding a stipulation to it. We're all going to be given--
Mayor Burk: That's what the board is voting on. If they want to add that, they voted to put that forward.
Kaj Dentler: Madam Mayor, may I make a suggestion to you that you allow the Town Attorney to take
the comments that he's heard tonight, inject that into a draft that you can see at your next meeting. Part
of the problem that we had was there were some misunderstandings of possibly of what occurred when
you approved this and didn't include certain language and that you didn't have clear ability to see it,
etcetera.
You may make the similar mistake tonight for something that you don't need to make-- I don't see that
you need to make a decision tonight, but it may be wise to confer that Mr. Crim confers Mr. Campbell
and Mr. Dunn, etcetera, send it out and let you work on it and then it comes before you in a document
where you can see what the changes are before you actually do it.
Mayor Burk: Well, by confirming them, we've already voted on a number of these issues, so I would
expect that they would not change.
Kaj Dentler: I just want you to be clear on what you're doing. Otherwise, you might be back in the same
conversation.
Martin Crim: Right. The other point that Ms. Boeing was making to me is that in a special meeting,
unless all members are present, generally speaking, by State law, you cannot add matters to the
agenda because if the members are absent and they didn't have notice that a matter was going to be
on the agenda, that's not fair to them. You have to be fair to the absent members. There's going to be
some things that we would want to, as Mr. Dentler says, work through it and provide you some clear
language so we all know what you're being asked to vote on.
Mayor Burk: Would someone like to make a motion that we send this to the Attorney to wordsmith us
and then bring it back at the next meeting so that we can continue the discussion?
Council Member Dunn: I would rather try to get it done now because I think we're pretty close. For
example--
Council Member Campbell: I'd like to make the motion that we suspend conversation on this table
until our next meeting to give the Town Attorney a chance to draft the language that we can then vote
on clearly.
Vice Mayor Martinez: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Mr. Martinez.
Council Member Dunn: What is the motion?
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Mayor Burk: The motion is to suspend discussion on this item, send it to the Interim Town Attorney to
put it into writing, and bring it back at the next meeting for discussion.
Council Member Dunn: A point of inquiry on that.
Mayor Burk: Yes?
Council Member Dunn: I am fully willing to give it to the Town Attorney but if I suspend discussion, I
can't even tell the Town Attorney right now what it is I'd like him to add to the motion or to even consider.
I'm willing to do what you want, Marty, but I'd like to tell the Town Attorney a couple of things to consider.
Mayor Burk: I don't think that's prohibiting you from talking to the Town Attorney. It's prohibiting all of
us from talking about it at this point.
Council Member Dunn: Say again?
Mayor Burk: This doesn't prohibit you from talking to the Attorney. It prohibits all of us from talking
about it right now. It moves it to the next meeting. There's nothing keeping you from talking to the
Attorney in this motion. All in favor?
Council Member Thiel: A point of clarification.
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Council Member Thiel: Mr. Crim, the last statement that you just stated in all members that were in
attendance of this special meeting. If the members of the special meeting were not in attendance, does
it prohibit them from voting on the specific item moving forward? Hence, I was not at the last special
meeting.
Martin Crim: No. Essentially, you've moved on from the motion to reconsider to actually reconsidering
the action and taking some amendments to it. I don't think that your presence or absence at the last
meeting has any effect.
Council Member Thiel: Thank you.
Mayor Burk: All in favor, indicate by saying, "Aye."
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez, Mr. Campbell, Ms. Fox, Mr. Thiel, Mr. Steinberg, Ms. Burk.
Council Member Dunn: Nay.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Dunn is a nay. All right. Do we have any disclosures at this point? Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: No.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: No.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez?
Vice Mayor Martinez: No.
Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox? Mr. Thiel? I don't have any at this point. Town Manager?
Kaj Dentler: No.
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Mayor Burk: No? Okay. That takes us then to our next discussion, which is a closed session to, "I
move pursuant to 2.2-3711(A)(1) of Code of Virginia that the Leesburg Town Council convene in a
closed meeting for the purpose of discussing the salary range for the Town Attorney position." Do I
have a second?
Council Member Steinberg: Second.
Mayor Burk: Council Member Steinberg. All right. All in favor, indicate by saying, "Aye."
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? That's 7-0. The second motion, "I move that Council certify--" Okay. That's
when it come out. We are talking about the salary range of the Town Attorney that we are looking to--
Mayor: In accordance with Section 2.2-3712 of Code of Virginia, I move Council certify to the best of
each member’s knowledge, only public business matters lawfully exempted from open meeting
requirements under Virginia Freedom of Information Act and such public business matters for the
purpose identified in the motion by which the closed meeting are convened, heard, discussed, and
considered in the meeting by Council. Mr. Thiel, do I get a second?
Council Member Thiel: Second.
Mayor: Thank you. Council Member Steinberg. Mr. Thiel, aye. Ms. Fox?
Council Member Fox: Aye.
Mayor: Mr. Martinez?
Mr. Martinez: Aye.
Mayor: Mr. Campbell?
Mr. Campbell: Aye.
Mayor: Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Ms. Burk, aye and Mr. Dunn, two, three, four, five. Who am I missing? I got Mr. Campbell.
One, two, three, four, five, six. Mr. Dunn is absent. All right. We now have a discussion on the Town
Attorney’s job description and recruitment profile.
Catherine Tuck Parrish: Thank you so much Mayor and Council, it's a pleasure to be with you. I have
provided you a draft document of a recruitment plan that you have in front of you. This document is
intended to just walk you through what the process would be like and to understand the timeline. I don't
think I need to go through everything on it, but I did want to share with you the first pages where we
intend to place ads. The agreement that we have with the Town has ads as an additive. I wanted to
make sure there was no misunderstanding about that. You may want your HR director to weigh in and
see if he has suggestions. That's what I would suggest that we do, is to have him make some
suggestions on this list.
Then the second page really talks about the recruitment process. Again, with the lateness of the time,
I'm mindful that you all can read the document. You'll get another version of this after this meeting, also
with updated information. You can see a couple of key dates that I wanted to talk about. At April 14th,
you can see that I've already talked with you all individually as well as staff. The next documents, what
I will be doing is sending the recruitment plan that's revised, a draft brochure, the text of a draft brochure,
and also a draft of first year goals. I'll send those through your HR director who will be my point of
contact. He would collect your feedback from those documents. I'll talk more about that in a minute.
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The main things that will happen after that will just be on our end, so we will be doing work. If you have
any individuals or organizations you want to make sure we do outreach to, please, send them to me.
Let me know that, I think you have my contact information. Instead of making your own outreach, I
would request that you let me do that for you. That's part of what you're paying us for. Also, it protects
you so that it doesn't seem like you are having favoritism for one person or another.
I have a couple of dates in here in terms of the week of that would be when we would have a candidate
review session. At that session, that would be an entirely closed session, it will be an executive session.
You would have information about the top candidates and some more detailed information about those
folks and some general information about the rest of the applicant pool. If anyone is interested in seeing
the list of all the applicants, happy to share that. I want you to feel comfortable about it, but again, you're
hiring me to help through the documents that you'll be providing, giving me that direction of how to
screen those candidates.
Mayor Burk: You said we will get a list of all the candidates? Is that a good idea?
Catherine Tuck Parrish: At the candidate review meeting, I generally have a list of everyone who's
applied. I don't have all their documents with me.
Mayor Burk: Even still, do we really need to know all the people that applied?
Catherine Tuck Parrish: I will have a copy of it if anyone wants to take a look at it. What I will want
you to focus on are the top applicants based on the criteria that you've outlined in the recruitment
brochure. I will have also had preliminary interviews so that I can provide you with additional information
besides just their cover letters and resumes and also some information that is available online about
them. That's the bulk of what you will get. It has information that is confidential, and so you would be
bound by executive session, both in terms of discussion about any individual or any information that
comes up in that session as well as your discussion amongst each other as well as in the future. It can't
ever come back to that time either. That protects you all. It protects the integrity of the process, but most
importantly, it protects the individuals who apply.
That will be a narrowing process. You will decide who you would like to interview in person or perhaps
virtually. We'll see what's happening. We definitely are continuing with the interview processes, and so
we're able to help you with that in a number of different ways. We can cross that bridge at the candidate
review meeting, but we have that capability to, of course, do video interviews. They could be live, they
can be recorded. We have a number of options.
Typically, we have a two-step process. Maybe you have five or six people that you interview initially,
and then you narrow that down to two. We'll see what that process looks like. It's most efficient to do
that altogether, and that's the way I have it proposed here to do the interviews in a two-day process for
candidates and for you all and for your focus it's very helpful to do that all together. If there are other
reasons that make that not the best way right now, we'll discuss that during the candidate review
meeting.
The other thing that I want to make sure is clear. I'll be working with Josh, he'll be helping with maybe
some other staff to find out what dates work for you all. I know that this is a lot of time that I'm asking
for your time. It's the candidate review meeting; it's typically about a three hour meeting. You might
need to schedule some more time, we'll see, but three hours is what generally we have for that meeting.
That's usually in the evening. It needs to not be when you have another meeting. I don't want to start
talking to you all at ten o'clock and have you make a decision. I want you to have good focus on that
conversation.
Then when you do the interviews that is also typically two days a block of time. Right now I have it not
on a weekend. You all may prefer a weekend. I find there is a mixture among elected officials whether
they want to give up their weekend. I will leave that with Josh and other staff to confirm. Of course, the
dates need to work for me too, but hopefully, we can find dates that work for everyone. It will need to
be the entire Council the whole time, so people can't drift in and out. They need to be focused on that,
or it's not fair to all the candidates. Any other questions on that part of the process?
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Mayor Burk: Any questions? Mr. Martinez? Mr. Campbell? Mr. Steinberg? Mr. Thiel? I think you're
pretty clear.
Catherine Tuck Parrish: The proposed interview process that I have, really, there was a lot of
agreement when I spoke with you all. There will be some interactions with the Town Manager. That
Acting City Town Attorney, that will be an important component of it and also some interactions and
then formal interaction with department heads key staff. That may include part of the legal staff, and we
can discuss that in more detail at the candidate review meeting. It is, of course, your decision. You are
the hiring authority. It is not a veto power that anyone gets but input that you all I think-- What I heard
from you all is that input is very important to you. I will make sure that you have input from those players
so that you have that information as you make that decision.
That also leads me to a question that I have for you, and that is, it's really important before I can finalize
the recruitment brochure. I need to understand, and it needs to be articulated clearly, whether you all
have three things. Hiring and firing authority, which I think is clear. Supervision, who has day-to-day
supervision, and who is conducting the evaluation, or how is that done? I will leave that as a question.
I want to just confirm that everyone is in agreement that the Mayor and Council have hiring and firing
authority for this position, correct? That's not a discussion point, right?
I think for candidates who will want to know, I want to make sure it's clear, and it's something that I think
should go both in the recruitment profile and also, I think before you had different iterations of how that
worked in the employment agreement for the attorney. I would like you to make that decision upfront
rather than wait until the employment agreement. It's something I think candidates want to know. Who's
my boss? Who do I talk to? There will always be, whether you decide to take all of that and do it, which
I think you, of course, would do for your Town Manager, and put that Town Attorney in that same exact
position. That's maybe option one. Option two, is some mixture of the Town Attorney, which-- Excuse
me, the Town Manager being involved in some way day-to-day and/or in the evaluation process, which
I think has been somewhat the way it might have worked recently. Those are the two options. There
are certainly nuances among those.
Mayor: When do you need this back, this information back?
Catherine Tuck Parrish: Well, I'd like you to spend a few minutes talking about it because it's a
fundamental question to me.
Mayor Burk: It is. Well, the first one is, who supervises the day-to-day operations? None of us are here
day-to-day. I don't see how we could do the day-to-day operations on the assessments/evaluations
thing because we're not here. Unless someone objects strongly, I would say that the Town Manager
would be the one that would do the day-to-day operations with, I don't know, with the input of the
Council, how do you want to word that?
Council Member Fox: Point there, where is the line drawn now? We had the Town Manager both doing
the day-to-day supervisory and also with the Town Council's input saw it to do her last Town Attorney's
evaluation as well. That didn't work out so well. I'd like to try and split that a little bit if that's possible.
Mayor Burk: How would you split?
Council Member Fox: That's something we need to talk about. I'm just not happy with the way it was
before.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez. Is that who I'm hearing?
Council Member Fox: I don't know.
Mr. Campbell: It might be me, Mr. Campbell. I agree with Councilwoman Fox, and I appreciate
Catherine Parrish for bringing it up these points and way you've laid this out because there are
operations for the Town Attorney as it serves the Town Manager. There are certainly operations that
relates to serving the Council, and they are different and distinct. I think some of those responsibilities,
to me, it isn't a day-to-day management that it's always the Council will be clear, but the Town Attorney
52
has responsibilities that directly impact the Town Manager and some that directly impact the Council. I
think we have to think about that. That might be Mr. Martinez.
Evaluation is a critical point, and that's clearly the Town's Councils' responsibility. I know on
conversations there have been some delegations historically over time where Council hasn't been as
active as it should be, and evaluation is a serious point of responsibility. I think we as a Council haven't
necessarily discussed that, but we need to and to be really clear where we want that evaluation to lie
as well as what that process is about. Whether or not we finished these conversations, we need to start
making our positions clear and need to before we hire somebody, have a clear expectation of ourselves
of what we want. Then the candidates certainly can then be fairly treated. It's time to talk about these
issues that have been highlighted.
Mayor Buk: Mr. Campbell, what are you recommending that you would like to see happen? We're not
talking about the evaluation, I'm talking about the specific. Who's going to do the evaluation?
Council Member Fox: Madam Mayor, after thinking about it a little bit because you asked me on point,
I think that the Council should do the evaluation with you being the spearhead of that. We also need to
seek our Town Manager's input, of course. I think Council as a whole needs to do that with you
spearheading it.
Mayor Burk: That's often how it's done in other locations. I have no problem with that. If everybody's
okay with that. Mr. Thiel is okay. Mr. Martinez?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Sure.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg?
Vice Mayor Martinez: If I might, I would like to comment.
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Vice Mayor Martinez: Well, I think if we do anything with our new talent screening on evaluation that
performance is, we can't go just one time a year evaluating a performance, and then ambushing them
with, "Oh, we no longer want you." I think that if we truly have a performance plan with whoever we hire,
Town Attorney, including the Town Manager, and we, on a regular basis, evaluate that performance
plan and have metrics aligned with that and see how they're performing to it to take the personalities
out of it.
What we need to do is that, if we do decide that somewhere down the road that we're going to let that
Town Attorney go, they're prepared for it. They understand why and that I don't like hiring them one
month, and then 12 months later, we evaluate them. We should be evaluating them through the year
so that when we finally get to the final, yearlong evaluation we have grounds in which we can-- We have
metrics in which to weigh their performance against, and that would give us a better idea on whether
we should continue the contract and what kind of raise and stuff we should have.
I do think though that without trying to do any kind of day-to-day job performance or job monitoring, the
Town Attorney would be a waste of a lot of people's time. You got seven people on Council, and we
have to trust our Town Attorney to do the job because I think that's what we hire him for. If we have
seven people trying to weigh in on every aspect of a performance, it would really work against us.
Mayor Burk: Well, Mr. Campbell, I think those are all very good points, and I think we need to have
that discussion. For tonight, I think we need to be able to give the answer of who will do the day-to-day
operation, the day-to-day assessment thing, and who will do the evaluation. I agree with you. We need
to have a discussion of what you're talking about, but perhaps tonight is not the night, but you're doing
something. Yes?
Catherine Tuck Parrish: May I make just one comment? One of the things that you will have for your
next Town Attorney as you have had in the past is an employment agreement. It is a best practice, and
I would recommend just like I would if you were hiring a new Town Manager. That the first year you
have both a six-month and a 12-month evaluation. I think that first year, it's particularly important. Also,
53
I will have a list of first year goals to begin with, and one of them will be for the Attorney to come back
to you all with some information for some goals because this may not cover it all. If you all agree that it
is the Mayor and Council's responsibility as the hiring authority, hiring, and firing and that the evaluation
process should be yours as the collective supervisor in consultation with a very important partner in the
Town and the Town Manager. That, to me, clarifies the question of day-to-day supervision. You don't
day-to-day supervise the Town Manager either.
Mayor Burk: We try but it's hard.
Catherine Tuck Parrish: I'm making an assumption. It was just the fact that the evaluation was different
that made me want to understand the supervision portion.
Mayor Burk: Is that clear to you now?
Catherine Tuck Parrish: It is clear to me now, and I will write it that way. If you all have concerns, you
will give me feedback.
Mayor Burk: Then we're going to put on the agenda for our future meetings to have discussion on what
the evaluation is and how it looks.
Council Member Fox: A metrics?
Mayor Burk: Right.
Council Member Fox: Okay.
Catherine Tuck Parrish: I would highly recommend that you have that conversation again when you've
hired the Town Attorney, to have that conversation and consultation with that person.
Mayor Burk: All right. Thank you very much.
Catherine Tuck Parrish: Thank you very much.
Mayor Burk: Do I have a motion to adjourn?
Council Member Steinberg: So moved.
Mayor Burk: Second by Ms. Fox, all in favor?
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? Good night, everyone. Thank you, Catherine, for coming. I appreciate it.
Catherine Tuck Parrish: Thank you.